2011-P Chickasaw Five Ounce Silver Uncirculated Coins

On February 9, 2012 at 12:00 Noon ET, the US Mint will begin accepting orders for the 2011-P Chickasaw National Recreation Area Five Ounce Silver Uncirculated Coins. This will be the tenth release within the numismatic program.

The reverse design of the coin features a depiction of Lincoln Bridge, which was dedicated in 1909 to celebrate the centennial of Abraham Lincoln’s birth. The bridge has become a favorite scenic designation, and is also the first and oldest developed structure built at Chickasaw. The reverse was designed by Donna Weaver and sculpted by Jim Licaretz. The obverse design of the coin features the 1932 portrait of George Washington designed by John Flanagan.

Each coin is struck in 5.0 troy ounce of .999 fine silver and has a diameter of 3 inches. The coins have an uncirculated finish and carry the “P” mint mark on the obverse.

As with the previous 2011-dated numismatic releases, the Chickasaw coins are limited to a total mintage of 35,000 coins.

For this release, the US Mint will not impose household ordering limits. For the 2010-dated releases an ordering limit of one per household was initially imposed. For the other 2011-dated releases, an ordering limit of five per household was initially imposed.

The Chickasaw Five Ounce Uncirculated Coins are priced at $204.95 each. This is the lowest starting price for any release within the series. The initial pricing for previous releases has been $279.95 or $229.95.

Demand for the series has dropped steadily as the US Mint somewhat rapidly released the first nine designs in the space of less than nine months. During the past few weeks there has been some rekindled interest in the program, as the market price of silver has risen and the US Mint has maintained the same pricing for the coins.

Other Developments for America the Beautiful Five Ounce Silver Coins

Recently, there has been some news and developments related to both the numismatic and bullion versions of the America the Beautiful Five Ounce Silver Coins.

As a refresher, the bullion versions of the coin feature a brilliant or often proof like finish and do not carry a mint mark. The bullion coins are sold by the United States Mint to a network of authorized purchasers responsible for distributing the coins to the broader market. The numismatic versions of the coin feature an uncirculated finish created through a vapor blasting technique and carry the “P” mint mark. These coins are sold by the United States Mint directly to the public.

Based on a reading of the authorizing legislation, it had previously seemed that the bullion versions could only be sold to authorized purchasers during the year of release for the corresponding quarter dollar. Refer to this article on Coin Update News which explains the US Mint’s interpretation of the law. Essentially, the Mint’s broad interpretation will allow them to sell their remaining stockpile of 2011-dated bullion versions for many years into the future.

The sales limitation did not come into play for the 2010-dated bullion coins, since the entire 165,000 coins produced were sold by December 23, 2010. For the 2011-dated bullion coins, the US Mint may have produced up to 633,500, but only managed to sell 397,700 by the close of the year. Sales of the remaining inventory it seems may continue for many years to come.

The US Mint has provided an indication of the production levels for the 2012-dated numismatic and bullion coins for the series within this Numismatic News article. They have “penciled in” 45,000 per release for the bullion versions and 25,000 per release for the numismatic versions.

Previous production levels for the bullion versions were 33,000 per release in 2010 and 126,700 per release in 2011. Previous production levels for the numismatic versions were 27,000 per release in 2010 and 35,000 per release in 2011.

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Comments

  1. Brad says

    So, it looks like I was duped into thinking that the Chickasaw bullion coin would have less than 28,000 issued. I bought an entire tube based on the initial interpretation that sales were over for them as of December 31, 2011.

    Now I guess I’ll have to wait until the silver value is higher than what I paid, and unload them as simple bullion. That’s all they’ll ever be “worth” it seems. I probably would have put that money into something different had I known. I guess I SHOULD have known.

  2. fosnock says

    I hear you Brad, that is why I waited…that and I expect like the first spouses the mintages will decrease with each release, but you will get your money back. In my humble opinion silver has no where to go but up…

    The rest of this is a reply, and question posted in the last thread (sorry but still curious).

    Louis
    They came that way (oxidized) when I bought them,which caused me to buy multiple sets (2000 silver proof set). they are still sealed in the mint provided clear plastic lens, and I store them in a mint sold Multi-Lens Collector’s Box I have had no other issues with any of my other sets. So I do not think storage is an issue nor the cause of the ‘toning”. As stated by Jeremy “What you guys might consider “quality control” issues may be an error coin.” Also older oxidized coins (toned) command a premium…not sure about modern coins. Are toned modern coins (still sealed) worth more or less than a pristine set. I think they are worth less but just trying to confirm

  3. Zaz says

    Fosnock, at this point, you would get more per coin if you sold them individually. There are plenty of pristine OGP sets out there, so if you sold it intact, someone on a budget would pay a discount for it. Otherwise the silver coins may generate a premium individually.

    It sucks about the 2011 dated bullion being sold in 2012 and beyond, but it is the US Mint, and they interpret/ignore/reference the laws when it suits them to do so. I think plenty of flippers bought multiples of bullion Vicksburg and Chickasaw in the expectation these would have small mintages, but as pointed out elsewhere, these are bullion products, the design and date are almost an afterthought. The fallout of such capriciousness is that the entire program will suffer as a result as more collectors shun the coins than ever before. Oh well, what you are going to do, sue? On the bright side, NP10 is available tomorrow.

  4. says

    I likewise picked up a Vicksburg and Chickasaw, though not due to premiums. Still, I’m unhappy that this move effectively devalues them.

    I’m looking forward to this numismatic release since Chickasaw is my favorite AtB design, though it has been somewhat dimmed for me with the recent developments on the bullion end of things. I guess I should be glad I didn’t try to collect all the bullion releases too and (mostly) stuck with the numismatic varieties.

  5. Tom says

    I sure can’t afford tubes of em.
    The Chick coin seems pretty boring.
    The burnished? collectible P versions look way better than the cheap
    shiny apperance of the bullion ones I’ve seen in coin shops.
    They look like cheap plastic disks that were
    sprayed with a low grade chrome hobby paint.

  6. Shutter says

    Bullion is just that. Don’t expect it to appreciate too much aside from metal value. Look at ASE. After 27 years, they are worth approximately the same amount regardless of year or total mintage. 1986 eagle sells for roughly the same amount as 2011, even though the latter’s mintage was 8X the former’s. Only MS70 graded coins command any sort of serious premiums.

    As far as I know, not a single bullion ATB has been graded MS70. In fact, something like 33% have been graded MS68 or lower by NGC. That’s compared to less than 1% for silver eagles, gold eagles, and buffaloes. It’s around 6% for numismatic ATBs and 4% for platinum eagles.

  7. Old Folkie says

    I have been collecting since I was 6 years old in South Philly, hustling shoe shine men and taxi drivers for Buffalo Nickels. I have most of my sets from the 20th century complete. From about 1978 until 1999 I lost the desire to collect. The state quarters brought me back, and oddly enough I love the spouse coins and the ATBs, small and puck sized. I know many like to knock the spouses and the ATBs but I love ’em. Along with working on a quality 7070. Those have become the focus of my collecting. I really don’t think you can lose with either, unless they stop the series which I can’t believe could happen. To me they are unique and I welcome the low mintages, it’ll just make them more desirable in the future. I intend to keep trying to collect them all. I actually prefer the bullion coins to the mint issued ATBs, but that’s a personal thing. I think that overall the 2011 and 2012 ATBs are great designs. I’m in until the end unless bullion goes ballistic.

    One more point that seems to put me in the minority, when mint marks became rather worthless, meaning no real mintage differences to spark interest collecting lost some of it’s appeal to me. Our coins should reflect are treasures and our ideals, and obviously our history. I love all the different designs, it gives me something to look for in change and get excited about. My only complaint is it’s so hard to find them in change.

  8. says

    “Numismatic” ATB’s are also just “bullion”…just come with a mint mark and and packaging.
    Some people prefer the proof-like bullion ATB’s, others the more consistant finish of the numismatic version. Personnaly, I would take a MS69DMPL over a SP70 anyday. Others, I’m sure, would prefer the SP70.
    Regardless, I’ve been collecting both versions and look forward to the Chickasaw tomorrow.

  9. Mike says

    I’m in for the 5 2011 5 oz ATB tomorrow at 204.95 per. I’m glad I waited. I paid $279.95 per for the 2010’s

  10. Mercury says

    Well that bit of news just took the wind out of my sails. Since the Mint is not forcing me to buy any of the America the Beautiful Five Ounce Silver Coins anymore, I guess I wont worry about them for the next couple of years or so. What a relief!!!

  11. fosnock says

    Thanks Zaz, and Louis. I only hope that the 2011 bullion ATBs will not turn out to be like the bicentennial silver proof set

  12. Matt L. Detectre says

    There now appears to be a distinction between the marketing of the FS’s and the 5 oz mint ATB’s. That being that although both have languishing sales the 2011 and later unsold ATB’s may remain on the mint website for sale for yrs to come until the mint sells all 35 large (unless they change the mintage on future yrs which I spose is possible if they ain’t sellin’) while the FS’s are limited time only with the likelyhood of ever decreasing mintages.

    So collectors will have ample time on the ATB’s although the price is almost certain to start going up some time in the near future. The mint may hold off on a sales price increase for another dollar or two silver increase especially if they can unload the current batch of ATB’s at a little faster pace. Once the mint ATB’s get back near 300 bucks they gonna be there awhile on the website. Too many feel they got burned on the first batch. Been holdin’ off buyin’ anymore waitin’ for another price decrease but me now thinks that boat ain’t gonna sail.

  13. posterhunter says

    The legislation is clear that the mint can’t sell the bullion coins into the next year but they are ignoring the law. In the long run this will hurt them more than they think because having excess coins to sell will crash prices like it is. People don’t like to lose money so those that bought earlier will stop buying and the mint will wonder why sales keep dropping.

    The mint is also seeing declining sales in nearly all of their products now. After the mint refocused the product portfolio after 2008 the went to mostly 1 ounce coins which happened to be the most expensive for collectors. 1 ounce of gold or platinum became extremely expensive for consumers especially when you added in the premium the mint charges for their own profit.

    Ironically the 1 ounce 2011 W gold eagle came in with a lower mintage at 8822 than the 1 ounce gold buffalo w coin of 2008 had when they had saturated the market with products. This suggests the mint did not do a proper portfolio selection for consumers.

    If you look at the mint website today they have almost no forward schedule for future products, nothing scheduled past the next week. Perhaps we will get a new product portfolio this year?

  14. Gary says

    Not all mint products can be flipped for quick profits! For the ATB 5 ouncers to get attractive again…mintages will have to be dropped to about 10k each! And as far as the First Spouse Series the mint needs to just put a bullet in the head of that program…and start up the fractional buffalo series again! It would be nice to see a reverse proof gold buffalo!!

  15. mqracing says

    I just got in two each of NP6 through NP9 today and was very much impressed with the strike quality (details) as well as the consistency of finish from edge to edge on both sides of the coins. Superb quality IMO.

    And the price at $205 each is a steal. Look at your options— a plain jane bullion strike eagle is say $37 to $38 per ounce. If you want to go with a better quality strike and finish in an eagle the UNC (W) is $46 each. At $41 per ounce the P version ATB’s compete very well.

    In the future I plan on buying two each of the P mintmarked releases. I have two children so one set for each. I only buy the bullion version ATB’s when I can get them at incredibly good prices like I did at the end of Dec when Apemex was blowing out PCGS graded ATB’s for $154 to $166 each depending on the design. I picked up 18 pucks during their year end blow out sale.

    But the bullion ATB’s are not struck nearly as well and the finish is god horrid. But as a pure bullion buy— price determines and if cheap enough I’ll go. One advantage of the slabbed bullions at true bullion prices is that they do store and stack nicely.

    I would recommend the P versions to someone who wants a good quality finish and variety in design (five diff per year). It’s a great way to build a nice little stack of silver— at the end of the program just buying one of each you would have a half monster box of silver. And the five issues per year (henceforth) makes it a doable proposition for many people.

    The other undersung program in many respects is the reg silver proof quarters. At $42 per set and a gross silver weight of approx .9 troy oz per five coins— the cost per troy oz is approx the same as the cost of a one ounce UNC (W) silver eagle. But you get the proof finish and greater artistic variety.

    Earlier I thought if the mint offered the small silver quarters in a normal business strike quality and sold them per roll at a suitable bullion price I’ll bet they could sell a lot of rolls to stackers. The smaller weight per unit would attract stackers on tighter budgets.

  16. Hidalgo says

    James Bucki from About Coins recently wrote:

    “the Royal Canadian Mint has issued a Silver Proof Set where all the coins are struck on pure silver planchets. Even the penny and nickel are made of pure silver! Unfortunately, mintage is limited to 20,000 (even less then the 25th Anniversary Silver Eagle Set by the U.S. Mint).”

    I bought a set because of the beauty of the coins, the pure silver (!) penny and nickel, and the low mintage. The set cost $224.95 (CAD).

    Do you think the set is a good buy?

  17. ClevelandRocks says

    Hope the Mint site doesn’t crash at 12:01pm when I try to order my P Chickasaw.

    Any predictions on if a sell-out will occur today?

  18. mookem says

    Not quite a sellout today Cleveland but I do predict very good volume across the board as this is the first opportunity to pick up all five 2011s in one box. I’m actually thinking of doing this myself. It just makes good sense.

  19. Samuel says

    mookem,
    u have very a big chance that to have ur order shipped separately. be aware.
    this happened to me for the NP9, 1 order, two shipments, one still backordered.

  20. vaughnster says

    I still prefer to order the 5 oz. ATB’s on the first day available as to make sure I don’t receive someone else’s reject. This year’s ATB’s have a better strike and finish consistency compared to last year. Maybe they finally have the hang of operating the special $2 million press purchased for the 3″ pucks.

  21. says

    Cleveland,

    I’ll be in there, pre-logged in, at 12 noon on the dot! I predict an even faster sellout than the A25s! 😉

    More seriously, I’m happy for the opportunity to get the last one at $204.95. I somehow don’t think the El Yunque 5 oz coin will be nearly as cheap.

  22. DCDave says

    Funny how Cleveland’s remarks would have be taken seriously for the Hot Springs release. I personally have sent ATBs back for spots/ scratches, so I’d open the boxes. Not sure anyone would really care if it is in an unopened box or not since most will be 70s and if not, I’d want to see it for myself so I can return it (so they can sell it to someone else). Wonder if any of the 2011 ATBs will sell less than allowed mintage, and if the FS will “sell out” with mintages under 4K. What are the “rules” of how long the FS can be offered? (not that the Mint always follows rules).

  23. Doug says

    What is the general consensus on purchase of the uncirculated ASE at $46 today with the new ATB. Is it still considered a good buy and is a sellout still considered imminent for the ASE; I see sales have gone over the 350K mark based on latest sales report. Have not seen any comments on this lately.

  24. Matt L. Detectre says

    Hidalgo, a true all coins silver proof set is something I’ve wanted our mint to do for years. The Canadian price of 224 sounds a little much for me but I don’t know how many ozs of silver are in it. Of course in a proof mint set you pay for the art work and beauty of the coins as well as the silver content. Like a nice painting you are buying more than the canvas and the paint. Now whether it turns out to be a Rembrandt of the Canadian coin world I’ll leave that to others to speculate on.

    If our mint would do at least an all silver set of penny, nickel, dime, quarter, and half and leave out the dollas it would keep the price down and they could sell a boat load of them. I’ll bet a couple hunderd large easy especially on an introductory set. Or maybe even do this set once every five yrs. Kick it up a notch and do a reverse proof all silver set. Now I’m dreamin’.

  25. Brad says

    DC Dave,

    The spouses are typically available for “approximately one year” from the date of issue. There have been at least three exceptions that I can recall, but for the most part the Mint adheres to that “policy.” The exceptions were Louisa Adams, who was available for about 13 months, Julia Tyler, who was available for only about 10 months, and Abigail Fillmore, who was available for about 15 months (by the end of that time in proof only, I think.)

    Under the policy, Eliza Johnson sales should end about 3 months from now. That coin was delayed by two months though, as it was originally slated to go on sale in early March. If the Alice Paul coins were not delayed and the old release schedule was put back in place, Eliza Johnson sales may end after about 10 months. However, since there still hasn’t been a peep about the Alice Paul coins yet, it appears the chances of getting back to the old release schedule won’t happen this year. Time will tell.

  26. Kelly says

    For those lookiing for that RCM 8 coin silver proff set, the RCM wants 224.95 for it but Talisman coins has it for 209.95. You also save on the exchange transaction on your creditcard.

  27. says

    Doug,

    $45.95 is a good price in my opinion. We will not get a lower price without a giant crash in silver prices.

    As for a sellout, I remember some people were predicting it, but it doesn’t seem to have happened at 250K. I’ll ask you, though – why wait? If you’re getting Chickasaw today and want a 2011-W ASE, you should just pick it up unless you just don’t have the money.

  28. Ikaika says

    Anyone had their Chickasaw 2011 ATB-P order suspended? I never had this problem, but got this message today at 12:02 pm when I placed the order.

  29. Ikaika says

    Very interesting, my order says “in stock and reserved” with no cancel order option. And as mentioned, it also says order suspended.

  30. mqracing says

    I got in at what is recorded on the mint’s order confirmation form as 12:00 noon on the nose. Ordered two 5 oz NP10 chickasaws and two sets of the 2012 silver park quarter sets. whoopie!

  31. mqracing says

    I’m debating.

    whether to order one each of NP6 through NP10 in as an additional order so that I have all five in one sealed box and then don’t open the box and just put it away for prosperity or profit.

    Feedback? Good idea?

  32. Brad says

    Wow, no backorder this time. That’s probably because the Mint realizes that doing that would leave a lengthy window of opportunity for cancellations, so calling it “In stock and reserved” will make the cancellation box disappear much faster. The Mint really DOES want to move these things out the door quickly!

  33. mookem says

    I just called customer service regarding the “in stock and reserved” and “this order has been suspended” and was told to log back in after 24 hours and this should be cleared up? I asked specifically if there would be a price change and she said that there would not. I was about to get very ill if they tried to pull this one over on us. I paid dearly for my early order of Gettysburg and was not about to let them jack the price up after my order had been placed today at the $205 price listed. I’ll confirm tomorrow if all is clear.

  34. Ikaika says

    @ Samuel

    It took about 24 min to get my order confirmation. See my previous posts. When the order went through, my status changed to in process, in stock and reserved, with cancel option now showing.

  35. says

    Chickasaw bullion sales…although sales have continued into 2012, the latest sales figure is 28,100…still 4900 less than the 2010’s.

  36. anil says

    Do anybody have any idea when 2012 bullion ATB will be released. I love these4 coins so i have buying tubes of 10 from fidilitrade they do not have the markup as other sites have. Only downside is you have to send a check and wait for it to clear then again wait for 10 days before they ship.

  37. says

    Anil,

    I don’t know if this will help you much, but last year bullion sales started on April 25th. APMEX has put up a product page in preparation for the El Yunque bullion here: http://www.apmex.com/Product/67056/2012_5_oz_Silver_ATB_El_Yunque_National_Park_Puerto_Rico.aspx

    They will need some time to strike the bullion coins too before releasing them to the market. My best guess is we see something between March and April, but this is just a guess more than anything else.

  38. Ikaika says

    Another interesting observation. Normally I receive the US Mint new product release email a few days after it becomes available. I received the Chickasaw email only 31 min after it went on sale. The Mint must be really desperate to sell these ATBs 🙂

  39. Samuel says

    i would say mint is getting better.
    it is imminent to set up a forum here, so people can read the blog and discuss at the same time.

  40. says

    Ikaika,

    I find it a little strange that Chickasaw is being treated as a clearance product before even going on sale.

    I would really love to know the views of the Mint’s current management on the AtB program and what their sales strategy is moving forward. I am especially interested to know what the sales strategy will be for the 2012 numismatic AtB coins – will they try to keep the prices low to move as many of them possible? Or will they raise prices back to the $229 level in hopes of greater interest due to lower mintage?

  41. DCDave says

    I hope they will establish a policy (I’ve read others agree as well) that they should never lower the pricing on a particular ATBs after released, since it is unfair and discourages sales (unless they post a weekly silver price grid). Raising ATB pricing if silver climbs seems fair and would encourage purchasing at the release.

  42. Ikaika says

    @ Captain

    You got some good points here. I have been an avid supporter of the ATBs. I have both numismatic and bullion sets. However, if interest does not pick-up down the road I am afraid these coins will end up all trading like bullion. The Mint needs to do a better job in promoting them for sure. By keeping the prices at these levels ($204), it will increase the demand because of the silver content, not because of interest in the series. So only time will tell. As collectors, we keeping purchasing as they are released.

  43. Ikaika says

    My Chickasaw ATB was also shipped today! Broke all the records for ordering, confirming, removal of cancel button and shipping time. Mint must really want to get these ATBs out.

  44. says

    Mine hasn’t shipped, but is listed as in stock and reserved. I’m expecting it any day. I’m surprised mine didn’t go out since my order went through at 12:01. Perhaps it got moved to the back of the line because of the stupid suspension error.

  45. GatorTrekE says

    I placed an order for the Chickasaw ATB plus the El Yunque quarter set at 1:18pm today. They are listed as “In Stock and Reserved” but I’ve also been assigned a FedEx tracking number so I’m pretty sure these are being shipped tonight. I’m dumbfounded to say the least.

  46. Ikaika says

    @ Captain

    Your order should be shipped soon. Interestingly, my order was placed @ 12:02 pm and was shipped yesterday. Also had some strange things happening with my order, but was corrected after a few min of placing it.

  47. Micro says

    mqracing and others considering purchasing and leaving the box sealed: I jumped in late on the AtB series – when the price dropped to $204 – and so now I am watching EBay to back-fill the 2010’s.

    Some of the EBay listings are in sealed boxes, but I will not even consider bidding on those unless the seller will allow returns. If the coin is damaged or otherwise marred I won’t know it until I receive it and inspect it. Since the mint allows 7 days to return items, the original owner could have sent it back for replacement; but not if they don’t ever inspect them.

  48. says

    Micro
    When you buy a sealed mint box on ebay, the buyer assumes all risk. You can’t expect a seller to accept returns…there is no way the seller would know that the coin you return to him is the one you received in the sealed box. You could already have a 2010 ATB that you previously bought (opened) on ebay that saw that it has some flaws….

  49. mqracing says

    Micro. That is exactly the risk you take when you purchase a sealed box. You get what ever is behind the curtain.

    The allure of a sealed box is twofold. First is that you know the coins have not been cherrypicked and that they are not previously graded (say a 69 or less) coins that were broken out of slabs and put back in airtights. Said another way— you know the coins are fresh.

    The second reason is that for some grading companies a sealed box delivered within say the first 30 days may retain eligibility for “first release” designation. Of course you would want to check with the grading company for particulars and confirmation— but in some cases this is also part of the allure of a sealed box from the mint.

  50. Samuel says

    people do this? i think 69 is more expensive than row coin, right?—“they are not previously graded (say a 69 or less) coins that were broken out of slabs and put back in airtights.”

  51. KR says

    Got two ATB coins, both damaged, sending back, not sure if I should replace or buy new ones and return these for money back… This is the 3rd time I am getting damaged ATBs but this time Chickasaw has two major scratches across Washington’s face plus one on the back of the coin. Also, what is this gray looking hair in the boxes coins come in… there is always gray looking hair in those boxes.

  52. mqracing says

    Just received two of the Chickasaw P five ounce pucks today. What a difference a year can make in terms of quality. These coins are beautiful— consistent finish from edge to edge and front to back. Detail galore! I think the mint hit a home run with this one. I can’t wait to see the volcano five ounce pucks!

    Although I’ve sworn off numismatics— liquidity issues mostly— I am still tempted to buy another complete set of the P pucks and just stash them away. As I see it the P mintmarked ones are only about $10 more than the bullion strikes— so that’s two bucks an ounce for a world of improvement in finish.

    I just might settle down to collecting the P pucks, keeping my UHR’s and my Kennedy silver halves— all else is going on the bay slowly but surely.

  53. Ikaika says

    Also received my Chickasaw. This is the first ATB that I received with a scratch on the reverse. Will replace this one. Ordered within 2 min of the sale.

  54. Monica says

    i recently found a Chickasaw quarter, as i work in a supermarket. i had to stop and look because i never saw 1 of these, nor did the girl that was working with me. but now i look at it and it has a D on the front, so is it worth saving or trying to sell?

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