2011 Silver Proof Set

Today, January 25, 2011 at 12:00 Noon ET, the United States Mint will release the 2011 Silver Proof Set. This annual set includes a total of fourteen coins, with seven of them struck in a composition of 90% silver.

Each 2011 Silver Proof Set includes:

(1) 2011-S Lincoln Cent

(1) 2011-S Jefferson Nickel

(1) 2011-S Roosevelt Dime – 90% Silver.

(5) 2011-S America the Beautiful Quarters – 90% Silver. Featuring Gettysburg National Military Park, Glacier National Park, Olympic National Park, Vicksburg National Military Park, and Chickasaw National Recreation Area.

(1) 2011-S Kennedy Half Dollar – 90% Silver.

(1) Native American Dollar

(4) 2011-S Presidential Dollars – Featuring Andrew Johnson, Ulysses S. Grant, Rutherford B. Hayes, and James Garfield.

The US Mint has priced the 2011 Silver Proof Set at $67.95 plus applicable shipping and handling. There are no household ordering limits or a stated maximum production.

This will represent the third consecutive year that the price of this product has been increased. Previous prices have been $44.95 (2008), $52.95 (2009), $56.95 (2010). The increased pricing has followed the upward trajectory of silver, which has doubled since the release of the 2008 Silver Proof Set.

The value of the silver content within each 2010 or 2011 Silver Proof Set is $35.05 based on data from Coinflation.com.

Two weeks ago, the US Mint released the standard 2011 Proof Set, containing coins struck in the same compositions used for circulation. Sales have been weak compared to last year. As of January 23, 2011, the US Mint recorded sales of 279,023 of the 2011 Proof Sets, which is about 20% below the sales level of the 2010 Proof Set within a comparable period.

Coin Update News: US Mint Sales Report

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Comments

  1. Anonymous says

    It is, but I still gotta have one.

    On a side note, it NEVER FAILS; I buy a junk silver coin – market drops. Sell a junk gold coin – market sky rockets…
    For a reasonable fee i would gladly coordinate with potential buyers/ sellers to ensure you get the best prices – hows that for fool proof?
    Michael – great site! One of the few 'must reads' on my list.

  2. Anonymous says

    These prices are insane in the membrane and sales show that people are still stupid enough to buy at these outrageous prices. HELLO !!! Spot price is 26.89 right now. Even the idiots on ebay are still paying 32.00+ on silver eagles. I'll buy silver at or below melt and laugh at everyone of these idiots.

  3. Anonymous says

    Has the Mint given any indication as to what the limit on the 2011 First Spouse coins will be? I'm thinking 10,000 of each will more than cover demand.

    Heck, maybe they should try the "bold prediction" figure of 5,000 of each. That should lead to some quick sellouts, so they wouldn't have to fool with each design for a full year! It might breathe new life into the series.

  4. Anonymous says

    There is no inflation. Keep saying it over and over. There is no inflation. There is no inflation. Benny from the Fed is smart feller and a smart feller makes a feller smart. Say it. Over and over and faster and faster. A smart feller makes a feller smart. A smart feller makes a feller smart. A smart feller makes a feller smart. A smart feller makes a feller smart.

  5. Anonymous says

    $67.95 ??????

    All together now: BOYCOTT-BOYCOTT!!!!

    If you think the clad junk has thus far shown "weak sales", wait until the first quarter ends and you see a 50%+ fall off.

    Someone at the Mint has got to step up and see that a Walmart type rollback had better be made and quickly. It's no crime to admit pricing needs to be readdressed and corrected downwards bigtime. The only question is: is the Mint smart enough to act? Big question!

  6. Anonymous says

    Even if they were willing to lower prices, it would take them 6 months to get the job done, having to cut through all the red tape and all.

  7. Anonymous says

    "For a reasonable fee i would gladly coordinate with potential buyers/ sellers to ensure you get the best prices – hows that for fool proof?"

    Would that be fool's gold your selling? 😉

  8. Anonymous says

    "Even the idiots on ebay are still paying 32.00+ on silver eagles. I'll buy silver at or below melt and laugh at everyone of these idiots."

    Using your philosophy that makes perfect sense, why would anyone respect the numismatic premium on a silver eagle when you yourself do not? But consider this. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result even though the result is always the same. There has been a numismatic premium on silver eagles since the day they were introduced. Why would that change now? Does this make you insane?

  9. Anonymous says

    Please boycott! Please boycott!

    It will make my set more rare and help increase it's price even more on the secondary market.

  10. Anonymous says

    El passo. The mint has taken its collector base for granted for way too long. It's going to finally catch up to them.

  11. Anonymous says

    To anonymous @ 9:29,

    I hate to burst your bubble, but it seems that the days of big premiums for numismatic coin sets are over. Just look at the 2009 Uncirculated Coin Set. It had the lowest sales in decades, plus contained four Lincoln Cents of a unique composition. The set barely sells for more than issue price. No money can be made on it by selling it online, by the time all of the middlemen take their cuts and postage is paid.

    Buy this 2011 Silver Proof set because you want it and will enjoy owning it. Don't buy it hoping it will make you rich. Unless silver reaches the incredible heights that some believe it is destined for, it won't happen.

  12. Anonymous says

    11:03, I agree. That's why I want a boycott, it will be the only trigger to make these sets worth much more than their original sales price, unless silver skyrockets. And if silver crashes, Look out below. I buy the silver version because I want the 2011 coins and I refuse to buy the clad proof or uncirculated sets.

  13. Anonymous says

    "There has been a numismatic premium on silver eagles since the day they were introduced. Why would that change now?"

    Because numismatic premiums will not give you profits when SHTF. Pure and simple. But, please feel free to waste your money there. Many others are. Why not be a sheep. But, the Shepard's will be the ones glad that they bought at melt when SHTF. If that makes me insane then I welcome insanity.

  14. Anonymous says

    BOYCOTT!!

    comment:

    ** How did HSN received or purchased 500 sets of the 2010 5 oz America the beautiful coin sets graded MS 69 selling for $4600.00.

  15. Anonymous says

    If only I'd listened to you in 1996 and bought junk silver instead of American silver eagles. Think how much happier I would be!

  16. Anonymous says

    Anonymous said…
    "For a reasonable fee i would gladly coordinate with potential buyers/ sellers to ensure you get the best prices – hows that for fool proof?"

    Would that be fool's gold your selling? 😉
    —————-
    Ha! Nope, just willing to assist my fellow numismasters in affording this years mint offerings. For $200 bucks I'll gladly buy one of those cute little GAE's at the time you specify. All you have to do is wait a day and buy the same for a deep discount. Use the $ savings for pretties like this prf set. Everybody wins!

  17. Anonymous says

    Ha Ha Ha ! The goofy mint web site has absolutely NO noticeable slowdown or sluggishness on the day of the (must have) their words silver set. I hope they are rare from low sells, I still will not buy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  18. Anonymous says

    $2799.99 is the price on MintProducts web site for the ATB 5's. And nut sacks are buying them. If I were going to blow that kind of money, it would be on gold.

  19. Anonymous says

    A price decrease on the Mint's collectible gold coins is almost certain tomorrow, unless the Wed PM price fix rebounds into the $1,350-$1,399.99 range.

  20. Anonymous says

    Just got an email from FideliTrade that my order for the ATB silver 5 oz. is accepted and will be shipped within 4 weeks by FedEx.

    So now I think that are the most important, beautiful set ever issued, and destined to be a classic.

    If I didn't get them then they would be worthless junk not worth bothering with. That's how it works, right?

  21. Anonymous says

    WHO CARES !!! Those pucks are some ugly suckers any way. The only people buying them are flippers and the idiots who think they will be worth a lot some day. They will never be worth what the idiots are paying for them now. So the only ones who win are the flippers. The idiots are just that. IDIOTS. If your smart, you will see through this flavor of the month modern day bull crap. If not, you'll just be another modern day victim. That choice is clearly up to you.

  22. Anonymous says

    Who on Earth would give a social security number in order to purchase those hockey pucks?! I buy bullion and numismatic pieces all the time and have NEVER been asked for my social. I wouldn't feel comfortable doing that.

  23. Double Your Money says

    Anonymous said… January 25, 2011 2:34 PM

    Just got an email from FideliTrade that my order for the ATB silver 5 oz. is accepted and will be shipped within 4 weeks by FedEx.

    ———————–

    Yo just got the same email

    just say double your money

  24. Anonymous says

    "Who on Earth would give a social security number in order to purchase those hockey pucks?!"

    A legal US citizen. And if your address doesn't match it, or is found on another order, then no pucks for you.
    FT seems to have the toughest order vetting out there, maybe that's why they still have more to sell at this very moment.

  25. Anonymous says

    "If I didn't get them then they would be worthless junk not worth bothering with. That's how it works, right?"

    Yes, that's exactly how it works.
    Just look at the rediculous comment below you. He didn't get one-sour grapes, terrible attitude.
    I think they're very cool, and the very low mintage makes them even more attractive to me.

  26. Anonymous says

    Ha ha. The good old boys down at Chattanooga Coins in Ga. just put up a full page ad for the hockey pucks. They must have scored some rejects and pick overs since the slabbed 5 pc. sets are NGC and PCGS units (your choice) and are only labeled "Gem BU". (Scratches, bangs, gouges, streaks, and dings don't count.) LOL

    The real sharpies scarfed up the best pucks already, but the Reb's still hope to charge you $3989, for either set. LOL.

    Talk about chutzpah! LOL.

  27. Anonymous says

    Whoopieeeeeee!!!! More talk about these boring ATBs. I sure will be glad when these ATBs are finally all sold so all the flippers will stop all their bragging. It really gets old. I'm not jealous either. Believe me. I sleep much better at night knowing that I bought a set to collect from one of the APs. I sure wish you bunch of scalpers would just go away and let the true collectors here talk about collecting coins instead of arguing about who is right or wrong. If you doubled your money good for you. Now we all know you only bought them to take advantage of others who didn't get them. If you didn't get one there is still hope at a reasonable price. Now just let the subject go and move on. Don't you people have a life other then arguing over what is right and what is wrong. You sound like a bunch of little spoiled kids that should have their azz kicked.

  28. Anonymous says

    US economy improves.

    Gold and silver prices tumble.

    POP! POP! POP!

    See what I've been telling you gold bulls? Speculators and flippers will be caught with over-inflated and over-priced coins.

  29. Anonymous says

    Yay, he's back!!!! Now gold can return to it's upward move. Hey, PPP, you can't claim victory until gold is below the price when you first claimed it was a bubble…when was that? I believe it was around 950. I'm glad your back though, because when you post the most is when gold seems to do it's best. It's quite uncanny how wrong you are.

  30. Anonymous says

    I wish the heck it WOULD "pop!" already! I wouldn't mind a bit if the price plummetted back down to $500 or so. Then, the First Spouses would only cost around what they did when the program first began!

  31. Anonymous says

    Yep, I've been thinking a move to 1000-1100 would be nice so I could reload a little lower. Long term picture still looks great. $500 is way too much wishful thinking. I'd be cash poor by $800 anyway with all my purchases of gold!

  32. Anonymous says

    Gold is at 1333.00 and ounce and our US Mint charges 854.95 on a half ounce. That is completely insane. No wonder the first spouse mintage is so low. I wonder if our nations leaders in congress will ever figure out that higher prices means less sales. DUHHHHHH !!!!!!

  33. Anonymous says

    Well, it appears the prices on the Mint's gold coins WILL need to be lowered today. I wonder if the Mint remembers how to do that? 🙂

  34. Anonymous says

    They will (must) be lowered today!
    I'm finally in for a Mary Lincoln set, but I'm going to wait until next Tuesday to see what the market is doing…

  35. Anonymous says

    "US economy improves."

    How completely wrong and misguided you are.
    You must have watched the propaganda speech last night on MSNBC.

  36. Anonymous says

    "I'll buy silver at or below melt and laugh at everyone of these idiots."

    I wonder if he'll buy silver at or below melt when it's at around 50.00 oz.
    Yes, he will. The word "idiot" seems to follow him around wherever he goes.

  37. Anonymous says

    I liked the "bold prediction" that the Mint would issue an Ultra High Relief Silver Eagle for the 25th Anniversary. That would be AWESOME, especially if it were part of a 3-coin set of Burnished "W" and Proof "W" coins. Heck, a 4-coin set that brings back the Reverse Proof concept would be even better! The Reverse Proof could be minted at West Point this time, so it would also have the "W" Mint Mark. The 2006 one had the "P" Mint Mark.

    Sure, the set would cost $299.95 I bet, but I would still buy it. It would probably be limited to 100,000 units anyway, which would most certainly still allow it to be a winner for all-time.

  38. Anonymous says

    "I wonder if he'll buy silver at or below melt when it's at around 50.00 oz."

    Then I'll laugh even harder as you idiots are just breaking even on your numismatic values. Because I know as well as most smart silver buyers that numismatic values do not rise with silver spot prices. $50.00 spot means that my silver will have doubled and yours will just break even or still be $50.00 in the hole.Do the math. Good luck on your numismatic investments. LOL

  39. Anonymous says

    Some people declined to buy the silver ATB because they're not comfortable giving their social security number? It's a brokerage house, by law they need to identify their customers. I'll be very comfortable with my set for $930, rather than $2700 or $3900 or whatever!

  40. Anonymous says

    I even gave them my sister's social security number so I'll have a set to flip. I'll give my sister $100 and we'll both be happy! It's a game. Play it!

  41. Anonymous says

    Your sister's willing to potenially sell her identity for a hundred bucks? Jeez. I won't even risk my own, let alone anyone else in my family!

    I know, I know. "It's a reputable organization!" I'm still not gonna risk it.

  42. Anonymous says

    Who said the economy is back LMAO !

    Obama gave us his word.
    He lied to us, he played on our fears!
    Remember Obama's words the stimulus will keep the unemployment rate below 8%. This guy is Jimmy Carter on Steroids

  43. Anonymous says

    "I'll buy silver at or below melt and laugh at everyone of these idiots."

    Can you please inform us where you buy below melt?

  44. Anonymous says

    I buy below melt from people who bring me their silver. I don't even have to shop for it. They just bring it to me. That is the benefit of owning a coin shop. With silver prices dropping, there are a lot of people freaking out and selling their silver to me. Only in America is it great to buy silver like this. So as long as people are selling their silver to me. I will reap the rewards of buying under melt. And I am also the barer of bad news to all the people who bring me their numismatic high grades and WON'T pay them the crazy prices they paid. That is how it works in the real world.

  45. Anonymous says

    LOL. NO. I sell to my customers at little over spot and make very little profit and have very happy customers. That is how it works in the real world of coin biz whether you like it or not.

  46. Anonymous says

    All this instant gratification modern day fictional pricing will one day be recognized for what it is. Many coins from the past 100 years took over 50 years to realize the numismatic rarity prices. This modern day million mintage junk you pay high prices on just because of a grade is fictional Plastic slabbed junk that in no way deserves the premiums they receive. The bullion ASEs are proof positive of this scenario and many people will loose a lot of money learning this valuable lesson later on when they bring me that junk that is worth only melt.

  47. Anonymous says

    No coin shop owner has that attitude. Every other word is LOL & idiot.
    Your completely full of BS

  48. Anonymous says

    This is why I always sell on E-bay. After being told by a local dealer that they only pay 40% of wholesale bid for PCGS and NGC graded coins – I passed. Another way they try to make money is to buy estates from the bereaved by telling them that Grandpa wasted all his money on these old junk coins. Proof sets and mint set are also a complete rip too. So, buy nothing but BU Eagles and Key rarities as soon as they pop up.

  49. Anonymous says

    No matter what that entity is; any item that is beautiful in design, has been preserved to the highest state of preservation, and is rare – will always have increasing market value. Add precious metals to the equation and you have an appreciating investment.

  50. Anonymous says

    ROLFMAO. You fail to realize that paying 3 times spot price just for a modern day bullion piece will never be a good investment for the future until bullion reaches 3 times it's value.

    Yes there are the idiots on ebay that believe in these modern day high grade scams. But, when ebay goes under because of the Chinese and their ability to blow the market out. Then all these bullion high grade preserved coins will only be worth what your local dealer will pay you for them.

    As far as being preserved. You obviously haven't seen all the so called MS70 and PF70s I have seen. They do not differ from MS69s or PF69s and many have finger prints on them. There are even many with corrosion around the edges of the coins from improper handling during the grading process. The slabs them selves do not hold up under many given conditions and are IMO just coffins holding in someones finger grease in a slab with the coin. A certain recipe for disaster for the longevity of your investment.

  51. Anonymous says

    My personal experience with coin dealers has been mixed. Some are straight-up ethical business people and some are complete scamming cons that will exploit anyone (including their own grandmother) to make a buck. Unfortunately, in this business, you have to do a lot of business with a lot of different dealers to find out who is who. Additionally, if you are on a first name basis with your coin dealer, he looks you honestly in your eyes when negotiating, and strictly follows the bid/offer sheet values – you are doing better than most. Over the last decade, dealers have been doing extremely well because of the run up in precious metals. In the book "The Millionaire Next Store" the author contends that most of the US millionaires next store are coin dealers or private coin collectors. So, don't be fooled.

  52. Anonymous says

    January 26, 2011 11:51 AM
    Can you recommend any method of preservation that could possibly meet or exceed the performance of today's current slab technology? As for your experience – you are probably talking about PCGS. However, NGC's newer design slabs seem very robust in design and don't seem to show signs of the graders eating potato chips and belching from soft drinks on the grading floor.

  53. Anonymous says

    I have actually conducted experiments concerning slab preservation.Although I do not agree with sending any coins to someone who may or may not handle my coins properly. I do know that out of all four considered slabs in the business.PCGS has the worst rating for holding up under certain given conditions.

    For instance, take a PCGS slab and set it in the hot sun for over one hour along with ICG, NGC, and ANACS. The results are astounding. The PCGS slabs plastic inserts will melt within the slab around the coin. All others will last about 1/2 hour longer before effects are seen on insert shrinkage. Moisture control testing also shows PCGS as being one of the worst when left in long term moisture exposure. It is obvious that these are not conditions that any good collector keeps their coins. I really do not recommend any current slabs in the business as all fail testing.

    What really surprises me most is the amount of coins I see that are clearly cleaned coins in a slab that are called uncirculated coins by all these grading companies.

    Why more emphasis has not been put towards a more safe form of coin preservation over the years is puzzling to me. For the hefty prices one pays for grading. One would wonder why glass slabs with glass inserts were not used.A simple rubber outer ring could easily protect such a slab from breaking.A vacuum argon type sealing process would serve as a better way to protect against moisture as well and shrinkage of an insert would not become an issue from dealers who transport their coins in hot sun exposed conditions.

    So, to answer your question. There are none yet. The one that comes up with such a slab would certainly stand out as caring for their customers and the coins they slab. They should also make an emphasis on proper handling of all coins submitted for grading to keep each custom confident that the uncirculated coin they sent in for grading will be that way when they receive it back.

  54. Anonymous says

    I am debating weather or not to get one. I guess I got most of the year to decide. I'll see if they actually/maybe drop the price. I know, LOL!!!

  55. Anonymous says

    January 26, 2011 12:53 PM

    Thank you. I tend to agree. (1) The biggest problem with the slab business is the troublesome human element – human handling. I believe that the grading companies should be set up as class 100 clean rooms where all coin handling occurs under ultra hepa laminar air flow, with finger cots, and masks to prevent the transfer of spittle (human spit) to the surfaces of the coin – the greatest source of growing spots. (2) The porosity of the slab material and the entire slab is also a concern. Getting away from acrylic plastic and moving to a poly carbonate (harder and higher melting point) would probably help with porosity – glass is ideal but breakage is a concern. More work in material science could produce a viable alternative with less porosity. (3) The out gassing of the materials used inside of the slab (label, support ring, outer seal) are also a concern. Poly Vinyl Chlorides and Acrylics out gas solvents. Any soft rubbery plastic will have poly vinyl chloride in it. The label should be made of acid free paper. Also, something should be inserted into the slab to act as a desiccant or getter. Getters are used inside of TV tubes and disc drives to attract and absorb impurities. There is certainly enough room inside of the slab to do so. Maybe we will see a slab company team up with Intercept and come up with something.

    The slabbing companies should also invest in reliability testing where environmental chambers, thermal cycling, and shake/vibration testing is conducted on their slabs. These services can be contracted anywhere in the US and are commonplace in the electronics and avionics industries. These activities would provide great insight into how the materials used to slab the coin interact with the coin over time. Yet, the biggest problems with slabs are the people handling the coins before they are slabbed and the impurities/contaminates that get entombed with the coin after it is slabbed. There is still significant room for improvement. Yet, addressing the human elements alone would provide the greatest improvement to the industry.

  56. Anonymous says

    Very insightful indeed. I also believe a good TPG company would get away from gimmick labeling and only address the concerns that all coins should show as being viable for rarity such as.

    1. year / date
    2. country of origin
    3. grade
    4. type
    5. mintage
    6. composition
    7. weight
    8. calibrated size

    This would not be difficult to put on a label and would appeal much more to me as this information is important when considering the purchasing of a coin or medal

  57. Anonymous says

    One of these fine days, and it may not be too far off in the future, you good folks are going to say: "Hold it, what the heck am I doing"? The tone of the last dozen or so posts on this thread is wrapped in the same cloth. The concern is 100% whether or not you can profit from whatever you bought from whomever. Of course the goal is to not lose money on purchases if possible, but it seems the trend is to make big profits, and to heck with buying coins or sets from the Mint or private entities because you like the items for your personal pleasure. Coin collecting has taken a 180* turn from what and where it once was. We older guys started almost 50 yrs ago, and bought and accumulated material because we liked the way it looked, not always because of it's contents ( silver, gold, platinum, copper, nickel, what have you ). Along the way, you obtained items which went out of favor and their value to sell fell. On the flip side, many items rose dramatically in value due to unplanned rarity or popularity. As the years go by, the accumulation can become massive in size and becomes a handsome potential inheritance source. Each to his own, everyone kills his own snakes. I would value my collection conservatively near $500K at this point in time. My heirs will be pleased, and no, I don't need to sell any of it to live on. I saved it up over many years and never missed the layout. I'm not the brightest star in the sky, but I try to spend MY money where it's treated best. Don't worry about the daily fluctations of silver and gold prices. Plan long term. ~ Grandpa

  58. Anonymous says

    January 26, 2011 2:01 PM

    NGC does that with their Ancient Coin Grading Service. It is a plus. They put that info right on the label.

  59. Anonymous says

    Light, heat, and oxygen will initiate a chemical reaction with any material. This is why all rare coins (slabbed or unslabbed) should be stored in total darkness and at standard temperature and pressure (68°F/1 atm) with low humidity (<50%rh). Adding, light, heat, and moisture will cause a number of stepwise reactions to occur on the surface of a coin – especially copper, manganese, and silver. Platinum and Palladium will resist environmental reactivity the best.

  60. Anonymous says

    Why do these TPGs seem second rate compared to the examples given here? Because they simply do not care about anything but profit. If they really cared then they would produce quality instead of the second rate crap they push out in droves. The TPG that steps up to the plate and produces the above mentioned type of slabs will gain respect from the numismatic world. I sure hope it is sooner rather than later. Because as of now. I refuse to allow any of them to ruin my coins with their second rate slabbings.

  61. Anonymous says

    Set cost is too high, no uncirculated Prez set, = $0.00 from me. Thanks US Mint, this makes the better half very happy.

  62. Anonymous says

    I've been following the discussion about TPG procedures here with interest. First, I have worked in a Class 10 clean room at NASA where one has to clean up, suit up, and walk through a locked air shower before entry. I have serious doubts that TPGs will ever get to this level. The US Mint also does not have an ultra clean environment where their presses operate and coins are handles after the minting process.

    However my experience with PCGS, which I have written about in this blog, also leads me to agree that TPGs in general, and PCGS in particular are the worst thing to happen to the hobby. Briefly, I sent in some gold commems to PCGS for grading, thinking that they would come back in original mint condition. PCGS destroyed them. Some of these coins were in their capsules since the late 1980's and were PRISTINE when I sent them in. The came back coated. AND WE KNOW THAT GOLD DOES NOT TARNISH easily. Treasure seekers in the UK often dig up gold ornaments which have lied buried for millenia and they look pristine after minimal cleanup. I URGE READERS HERE TO EXERCISE EXTREME CAUTION WHEN SENDING GOLD OR ANY PRECIOUS COINS TO PCGS. During my period of business with them I had also sent in some first spouse coins. SAME THING – they came back to me with deposits. My feeling is that the ultrasonic process which they utilize to seal the slabs emits material vapors into the sealed chamber which over time simply ends up as a deposit on the gold coin. I had suggested to PCGS that they do an analysis of the material on the coins – it fell on deaf-arrogant ears. They simply did not care all the way up to that %^&$% idiot Hall who was running (and ruining) the show at that time.

    Finally, I choose NOT to do business with any TPGs. All my coins now are in their original mint packaging and I will keep it that way, since I am interested primarily in collecting. The PCGS experience was a very hard and very bitter lesson for me to learn but I have learned it well. They simply do not care and are a key core part of the hyped up flipper system together with eBay, PayPal, and the rest of these crroks. Perhaps the best advice I have seen is in these pages, recommending the coins be handed down to the next generation in the family.

  63. Anonymous says

    " … the mint has taken its collector base for granted for way too long. It's going to finally catch up to them…"

    As the mint's Sales amd Marketing department has complete control, it was just a matter of time until the rope ran out.

  64. Anonymous says

    January 26, 2011 4:41 PM

    A Class 10 Cleanroom would be a highly expensive proposition for a company such as Intel, IBM, and NASA. However, with coins, Class 100 or even Class 10K is feasible. Another note, the entire room could be Class 10K, and all the critical operations could be performed under flow hoods that keep the operation at Class 100. With all of the Hi-Tech companies going out of business here in the States; flow hood benches are in abundance on the used equipment market.

    Additionally, I also believe that PCGS uses a lot of heat and resin in their forming/sealing process, and this could produce an abundance of chloride gas to form inside the holder at the time of sealing. Gasses always try to bond with metals. For example, Oxygen will always try to bond with Silver to produce Silver Oxide (toning).

  65. Anonymous says

    Going back to a much earlier post, Ebay is a lagging indicator. Coins still sell as if silver is at $30+/ounce. The opposite is true when silver is rising, for example last fall. It takes a few weeks for buyers/sellers to adjust their prices.

  66. Anonymous says

    I have a feeling that the grading problems all boil down to attitude and process / procedures. There is usually at every clean room entrance a poster titled "Particle Pete" which has a picture of a bearded dude with clean room overalls but also with dangling cigarette, garbage in pocket, drool, zits, hamburger, frown, etc.

    The PCGS slabs are just about the only thing which look nice since they are designed for exactly that. My argument is simple : a coin sitting in its mint issued capsule is very bright and vibrant after 10+ years but changes only after PCGS encapsulation. I suspect that they do in fact have the $ to do a quick chemical analysis of the screw up but are they willing? – because if the audit comes up that PCGS encapsulation is at fault they will loose a lot of money and possibly simply go out of business from class action suits.

  67. Anonymous says

    There is importance to correctly sealing the state of any given coin condition in a stable environment.

    The valid importance of maintaining a true mint state condition should henge on the fact that it is only known to come straight from the Mint to the TPG.

    The true definition of uncirculated should only be that of a coin that has not been in circulation of any kind. Meaning that if the coin is not in official original Mint packaging sealed. Then it is impossible to prove that it has not been circulated.

    I can pass a coin from one person to another even if we both are wearing gloves. At that point by definition. That coin would then be circulated.

    There is no way for any TPG to say that a raw coin sent to them in a simple plastic flip has not been circulated. Yet they routinely grade them as such.

    The Morgan dollar is probably the best example of this issue. Many experts agree that as much as 80% of Morgans and many other older coins have been cleaned. The best examples are found in most TPG holders.

    Yet the TPGs seem to only pick out the distinct few and body bag them to look as if they are wise to all cleaned coins. When in fact they either are not, or they are very selective with the cleaned coins they allow.

    To bring coin collecting and proper definitions into perspective. It is simple to see that TPGs are merely a way of making a coin seem more expensive just because someone you don't even know says it is a certain grade.

    As the gentlemen stated about the hobby changing 180 degrees from what it once was is very correct. At what point should we as true hobbyist just love and enjoy the coins we own for more then just profit down the road.

    The person who collects only for profit down the road should consider all the fun and enjoyment they miss through their paranoid concerns of only making money. After all, it is only money and you can't take it with you.

  68. Anonymous says

    "The valid importance of maintaining a true mint state condition should henge on the fact that it is only known to come straight from the Mint to the TPG"

    Clearly PCGS did NOT live up to this in my case. My coins were ultrasonically cleaned in etchant/solvent to remove the lacquer from their previous procedures. The ultrasonics also left marks because particles in the etchant simply bombard the surface and leave circular tracks. Finally ultrasonics also "opens up" lines and fractures on the surface which originate in both the grain-domain boundaries in the metal as well as features caused by the high pressure from the minting process. Finally one of the coins had drag marks on the surface (it was dropped) and all of them showed evidence that PCGS staff had attempted to wipe of the new features from cleaning by local rubbing of the surface perhaps with a q-tip dipped in etchant. I work in the semiconductor industry on surface science so some of this was easy to identify. Note that they did not dispute any of my points. The coins were simply not the original minted ones but "processed" by PCGS to meet "their" grading standards. I just fail to see as a collector how I should be satisfied about this.

  69. Anonymous says

    Perfect Mint State (MS-70)

    It is a theoretical perfection. To achieve such a grade, the planchet will have to have been perfectly formed, and have flawless, lint-free surfaces. The dies will have to have been in new condition and raised from unworn masters, and the dies will have had no lint, dust, oil or other contaminants on their surfaces. The coining press will have been perfectly adjusted to give a full strike to the coin, which will then have received no marks upon being ejected from the press, nor in its slide down the chutes and sorting tables/grids and into a receiving bin. Nor will it have been marred by all the other coins following it into the bin, nor from the dumping and counting into bags for distribution. Such a coin is not possible. We are dealing here with an automated process that manufactures "Business Strikes" intended for daily commerce.

    HOW ON EARTH CAN ANY TPG CALL ONE OF THESE COINS MS70?

    THEY CAN"T BUT THEY DO. AND MANY PEOPLE FALL FOR THIS SIMPLE SCAM.

  70. Anonymous says

    The TPGs have taken most of the fun out of collecting by assigning a number such as the MS70 etc to coins. The business plan and process is quite simple – give it a number and then assess value. Easy and quick money. Forget the coin just look at the TPG label. So we have all of these modern high value coins – simply because PCGS and the like have convinced us that they "know" the value and we should believe.

    I remember talking to an old timer of WWII vintage who had a small collection. He had observed and enjoyed it so much that he knew the coin surfaces well on each and could describe them more accurately than some grader who sifts through hundreds of these in a day. To collectors these numbers are meaningless.

    As a collector, I like to relax with my coins and have a private moment of peace, just looking at and appreciating what I have.

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