For the third time in less than a month, the United States Mint has suspended sales of all numismatic gold products, with the exception of the commoratives. The 2010 Silver Proof Sets have also been suspended, now for the fourth time.
Before the suspension, the numismatic gold products were priced based on a market price of gold in the $1,750 to $1,799.99 range. A price increase had been narrowly averted this Wednesday due to the low London Fix prices from the beginning of the period. This morning, the price of gold jumped more than $50 to around $1,875, which was apparently high enough for the US Mint to exercise its option to suspend sales. Their pricing policy allows such action to take place “in the event that the selling price of United States Mint gold bullion products begins approaching the sale price of the gold numismatic products.”
If the Mint follows past practice, sales will not be resumed until either (1) the market price of gold drops back to the relevant pricing tier; or (2) prices can be adjusted higher on Wednesday under the typical procedure.
Most curiously, the Lucy Hayes First Spouse Gold Coins were suspended less than 24 hours after going on sale.
The 2010 Silver Proof Sets that were suspended include both the full annual set and the component set containing the five 2010 America the Beautiful Quarters. In order to reprice these products, the US Mint must publish new prices in the Federal Register, which can take several weeks to accomplish. The last three times these silver proof sets were suspended, the market price of silver dropped before new prices could be established, and sales resumed at the prices previously in place.
The 2011 Silver Proof Sets continue to be available for retail sales. The US Mint has suspended sales of these products from their bulk order program, which allows dealers to purchase the certain products at a 5% discount for orders above $5,000. Based on this action, if the market price of silver rises another 5% or so, retail sales may also see a suspension.
Do you think they will end the 2010 proof sets products? I mean if they suspended the ASE Proofs to allow the adjustment for the uncirculated silver eagle why are the leaving the 2011 prices intact. If they wanted to bring the 2010 to the same price as the 2011 they could have done so before. Thoughts
The US Mint’s last official response on the 2010 Silver Proof Sets was that they would continue sales until December 31, 2011. This would also be dependent on how many sets are in their inventory, since they can’t produce anymore.
The current prices for the 2010 and 2011 silver sets were established at the same time, with the 2010 sets priced a few dollars lower. I would think they want to preserve the discount for the older sets, but at this point, they are probably just reacting to metals prices.
This is just too much jerking the customers around!!!!!!!!!!
Let’s do ONE price change per month o/a first of the month; stop all this foolishness.
This should be the first time that we’ll be able to see how many coins were sold in the first day of sales for a specific First Spouse design. Next Tuesday’s sales report through Sunday will only have numbers for Lucy Hayes for the first just under 24 hours prior to suspension. Hopefully those numbers will be provided, versus them being omitted.
Does anyone know if they will they honor the orders of the first day at that price?
I’ve placed orders in the morning, just an hour or so before a suspension/price increase, and these orders have always been fulfilled at the prices in effect when the order was placed.
Yeah, my order for Lucy Hayes placed about 10 minutes after sales started yesterday is now “in process” and the cancellation boxes are gone. The prices are the $1,054 and $1,041.
My guess is that the 2011 silver quarters/proof sets will be suspended around $45 or so. $43 has proven to be the “break point” for the 2010 series sales twice now. So given that the 2011s are $2 more expensive, that tells me $45 will be the end for them.
Fortunately, when the 2010s were last suspended, my group ordered a bunch of the 2011 proof sets. I don’t think it will be long before silver reaches $45.
Any word on the shipment of the 2011 9/11 commerative coin? I placed my order for both when the price was 55 dollars.
Thoughts?
again. i hate the mint.
The fact the mint is pulling this a day after they go on sale is bull@#!#!
The Mint should be more predictable as to when sales will be suspended. They are very inconsistent so one doesn’t know when one has to pull the trigger. Why weren’t the commems pulled for repricing today? Why did it take so long for them to be pulled the very first time when they were barely selling above spot? Stupid Mint.
Michael,
Can you tell me the silver price window used when the mint priced the 2010-P 5 ouncers? I seem to remember it was near $44 or so? I was disappointed however, when silver dropped to $33 and no re-pricing took place. I guess they assumed we would buy them either way but would have surely increased prices should silver have increased. When will a preliminary pricepoint be announced for 2011 P’s?
I made my rounds on eBay and was able to pick up two 2009 silver quarter proof sets for $45.00 each and free shipping. I earned .90 on each in eBay Bucks making them $44.10 a piece. With the closing price of silver, each set was worth $46.93 in silver alone!
So I was able to purchase a little silver for under spot! Half the fun is scouring eBay for these sets with Best Offer prices and try to get them on the cheap. I have been doing this for a long time. I’ve been able to grow my silver position for less than spot. I have a hiding spot that can accommodate all the sets.
Michael (or anyone),
Why does the mint sell the silver ’10 sets at a “discount” to the ’11 product when sales of both will end by the end of this year, and the ’11s have far lower sales?
The plat proof is still for sale at the lower price, but still not much interest.
Many”experts” like plat, but it doesn’t “wow” me like gold does.
“Can you tell me the silver price window used when the mint priced the 2010-P 5 ouncers?”
The pricing notification in the Federal Register was dated April 11, 2011. On that date, silver was $41.37. However, the actual price they used as a basis may have been from some time prior to the notice date. A week earlier silver was $38.
I haven’t seen information on the actual price used, but I would guess it is somewhere between those two prices.
I received my 9/11 medal today (a “P”) and it is a beauty, much nicer than you would think from the pics. NGC is already advertising a special label for these that have to be submitted on a separate form. I am not as anti-TPG as some folks, but really grading a medal and then charging a separate processing fee for a label with a photo of the very medal being graded? I wonder what people will pay for a PF70.
But I do think these were not a bad deal at $56. They look nice when displayed and are not so valuable that you have to keep them locked up at all times. See what your non-coin friends say about them and let us know.
“Why does the mint sell the silver ’10 sets at a “discount” to the ’11 product when sales of both will end by the end of this year, and the ’11s have far lower sales?”
I don’t know the official reason, but in theory I would think the Mint would rather sell the 2010 sets than melt unsold inventory at the end of the year. Also, their basis for the silver in the sets has to be very low since the sets were produced during 2010. I think it makes sense for them to price the sets more aggressively than the newer release, but of course not sell them for less than melt value.
the only way to buy cheap gold stuffs from the u.s. mint are the modern commemorative $5.00 gold coins. mint did not suspend these coins.
Cleveland,
You should really give platinum a chance. While platinum does not get the attention gold and silver does, it is still a very solid investment and is probably on par with gold (assuming you’re not buying for the end of the world to trade for food anyway).
For one thing, platinum until recently was treated by investors as another industrial metal. Its primary use is in the catalytic converters of motor vehicles, and the primary driver of its price appears to have been its utility in the auto industry. China is beginning to tighten their environmental laws, it’s being required in more and more cars in that country. However, due to the recession and the Japan earthquake, it hasn’t been performing that well over the past year since the auto industry was hit hard by both.
However, once the platinum/gold price ratio hit 1 : 1 a couple of weeks ago, platinum began climbing upward alongside gold. Clearly SOME of the flight to safety investors that have been pouring into gold and silver have started diversifying into platinum as well. I think you would be well served to pick up a the 2011 platinum proof and probably the more standard bullion platinum eagles. I’ve found bullion platinum eagles for sale on APMEX and Provident Metals. I don’t own nearly as much platinum (just a single ounce really) as I do the other two metals, but I believe its performing well enough that it would reasonably for people to diversify a bit into the white metal.
Also, I am a shameless 2011 proof platinum eagle pumper. I really love the design and I have become a fan of Joel Iskowitz’s coin artwork.
What I’d avoid for now is palladium. Unlike the “big three” it doesn’t seem to be benefiting from the flight to safety money. Nearly every day when we’ve had big increases for the “big three,” palladium has just traded flat or fallen. Today is a good example – according to LiveGold, gold was up $58.8, silver was up $1.75, platinum was up $33, and palladium was down $7. I am frankly just fine with palladium’s relatively poor performance, because it means we won’t have to pay too much more for the palladium eagle when they presumably release it next year.
Michael,
Do you have any information as to when the Mint will remove the 1 coin limit on the Mt. Hood 5 oz coin? Seems that they have plenty of them left but they just leave the limit on. Also, what happened to the Mint’s policy of making price changes every Wednesday. Now there doesn’t seem to be any consistancy with their price changes.
Leo S
I was preparing my ammunition in the morning to purchase some FS, AGE, or whatever gold coins I could get my hands on; Early in the afternoon, I logged in to the USMint website and was about to pull the trigger when all of a sudden: voila!!!! “temporarily suspended or not available” ; I was so dismayed, so I turned my sight to the Platinum Eagles but hesitated for a while and didn’t make the purchase; I believe this is the way to go now, Platinum Eagles (sleeper coins) but am not 100 percent convinced. Any thoughts?
I also think it’s time to go long platinum and short gold. The 2011 platinum eagle has a great design. I wouldn’t bother buying the platinum eagles from the mint when you can buy NGC graded PF70 coins for about the same price on ebay. Good luck.
I was considering the platinum myself but know very little about the metal other than what was stated above by the Captain. I’m just not sure I’m confident enough about it to make a purchase. However, I must admit I’m getting just a little bit irritated with the mint and their speculative behavior. Why would you completely shut out any opportunity for customers to purchase gold on your site going into a long weekend? That really doesn’t seem to make any sense to me.
Platinum looks like silver, chrome, aluminum, steel or some other “not gold” color to me. As much as there may be some high industrial demand for platinum, the “gold standard” will always be gold.
I admit liking the ’11 design the best, I’ll bought all five of the ’10 5Oz Ps, and the gold MOH for less than the one Plat.
Tip: you can still pick up a gold MOH or Army NGC ER PR-70 on ebay now for $589. This should not be much different than Mint pricing next week.
The Mint’s marketing strategies are in flux as are the world’s economics. They will continue to bluster along in their insincere fashion rather than set benchmark prices for their products with the fluid (ticker tape type) spot costs automatically added. What a greedy bunch they are, eeking out the last red cent from their subpar products.
Platinum…other uses.
Eugene Houdry invented the catalytic converter for autos in the 1950′s.
The catalyst itself is most often the precious metal platinum. Platinum converters are used in America for their effectiveness in cleaning exhaust fumes. Copper can be used but is ruled unsafe in North America because it produces dioxins.
Does anybody here feel that ATB mount hood will be suspended as silver price is going up before the mint lifts the ordering limit.
I too would recommend a little Platinum for one’s investment / collection. I finally purchased the 2011 Plat. Eagle once gold & platinum became equally priced (and it was the only PM available on the Mint’s web site for purchase at the time). I really don’t see any downside that isn’t associated with other PM’s. It maybe talked about less on the blogs & other media outlets but that just means that I’m hopefully ahead of the game. Platinum is still off its 2008 high of $2300 and there have been mining issues in S. Africa from what I’ve heard.
average precious metals prices predicted by Barclay bank for year 2012::
gold ——- $2,000.00
platinum – $1,835.00
For those still interested, I just put up a lengthy post on platinum on my blog which I hope will answer some peoples’ questions. Just click my name.
(Michael, feel free to delete this post and let me know if you discourage self-linking or referencing, I won’t do it again if it violates your blog etiquette).
A secret cable released by Wikileaks purportedly explains why gold has been, and will keep going up. The Chinese want to strengthen their currency by buying it up, which at the same time hurts the US. The US and Europe have been keeping the price of gold down for decades to strengthen their currencies, by selling it off and shorting it, but they are unable to keep it down with all the Chinese buying. So it just may keep going up and settle at some higher level with many more dollars needed to buy it than in the past. Load up now! (If the Mint ever decides to sell.)
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/wikileaks-discloses-reasons-behind-chinas-shadow-gold-buying-spree
I still remember when Oil hit $120 in 2008, Goldman Sachs and Barclays quickly released “analysis” saying they believed oil would easily go up to $200 quickly from there. Within months, it was $30.
It is nice when people on wall street agree with my hopes for higher prices, but always remember 2 things about wall street types: 1) they are crooks and 2) they are stupid.
I collected coins for decades where minimal discussions on PM occured. Beauty, historical value, and mintages mattered most. Once PMs settle down, this will happen again, but no one really knows if silver will settle in the 20s or 90s or if gold will be 1100 or 3100.
IMHO the PM values seem to be a bulging bubble. Economies thrive significantly on a working population who pay their fair share of taxes. Imagine in a thriving economy 100 million people each pay 10k in taxes – you have 1 trillion right there. This is the largest source of income for a government. People have to have jobs and the pols will have to strive to create them. Once unemployment is lowered, the economy will be based on broader market interests, and PM prices will stabilize. The rapid price hikes in Au and Ag cannot go on forever, since hoarded gold will not be purchased by people who do not have sufficient money for food. I agree with above poster Billy about oil. I used to drive by an old abandoned gas station with the price listed at $1.34/99 and think “that will never happen again.” We were paying about $4 at the time. Well fast forward a few months and gas was selling for less in Denver for a brief period in time. I for one rarely drive these days except to the grocery store and errands for my home business.
Simon, what many don’t understand is that it is NOT the precious metals market that is in a bubble it IS the paper money market(fictitious money). Once again, as so often many suffer from, you’re thoughts are based on your understanding of that in the dome of the United States. The precious metals market goes WAY beyond the borders of your country of origin. There are many other billions of people on the planet other than the 330 million or so in the US.
Furthermore, you must have missed the most recent jobs report. People must be able to obtain jobs in order for the government to extract funds from them.
Regarding petroleum, keep this in mind . . . years ago when oil hit near $150 a barrel the price at the pump was around $4 US. Oil is now around $85 a barrel and guess what?!?!? gas is around $4 US. The fed has generated and pumped how many trillions of dollars into the markets to keep it supported? All of that money and MORE(as countries dump US debt) will come flooding the US borders with paper and when it does inflation will certainly take off!!!!
The bottom line is that talk of bubbles does not make much sense. The key reason that gold is going up is, primarily, fear. The Chinese, Indians, Europeans, and Americans are all buying for this same reason. Should the global macroeconomic picture improve (especially the US dollar/economy), the price of gold will start declining. If things continue to get worse, gold will keep surging.
I am buying gold and platinum primarily because of concern about the dollar’s condition, not to make money. If I actually get a chance to sell it as the economy improves, I will be happy and surprised.
Once again, the precious metals markets are only being viewed from the US perspective. The US is NOT the global economy, not anymore. Fear is not the only means by which the precious metals are being propelled. Much of it has to do with economic strategy among nations. I’m not going to go in depth but I will say the US dollar as it is today is going to join many other currencies that have all been thrown into the dust bin of history.
We have to thank the Chinese for manipulating our world economies and for being our puppeteers; “Never bite the hand that feeds you” doesn’t hold true for them (excellent link MarkInFlorida) . Until we, as a country, become independent and start producing our own products we will not thrive; how would the jobs report look if everything being sold at “big retail stores” was beeing produced by our hard working people???Our government should tax these “big retail stores” and encourage “Made in the USA”- Our products are the best ; Chinese products are not, and sometimes,at best, dangerous for our health. I have been investing in PM’s for the past 10 years, but at these levels I am fearful; want to guess what will happen once the puppeteers cut the strings???
hmm . . . interesting, you actually think the Chinese are the ones that off shored and outsourced so many of the American jobs? They’re responsible for the US dollar being devalued 98% in the past 100 years?
Not to be rude or mean but for those of you that are investing in precious metals rather than just being able to consider yourself lucky years from now should really develop an understanding as to the importance of WHY its necessary to convert fiat currency for precious metals now more than ever!
I do not doubt that China has tremendous clout but at the moment they are not as significant as the whole democratic world in which the US is the leader, with the EU and other major powers such as Canada and Australia, India, Japan, and Brazil. Let’s assume that all these democracies can agree on a set of principles to establish a common free market economy. Suddenly China does not look like a trend setter any more. The combined current economies of the US and EU are more than 30T, India, an ally is pushing 3T, Japan another ally is 5T, Korea over 1T, and Brazil, South Africa, and the rest of the democracies are say about 5T. This is not even counting the whole African continent (2T economy) whose nations which are rapidly democratizing, Latin American democracies who are rapidly liberalizing their economies (with the exception of Cuba and Venezuela) (4T), and other nations such as Indonesia, Malaysia, and many of the Middle Eastern Countries (2T). What we are seeing is not so much measured by the weakness of the dollar or the price of gold but the capability of a growing middle class world wide who by scratching and saving have significant earnings and can determine their own future. The weakness of the dollar is over emphasized and I think this weakness actually benefits consumers in their everyday needs. I can still purchase food for about the same as I did 10 years ago. If I purchase a home on a 30-year fixed mortgage my payment is fixed (1K / mo), and I pay essentially the same for most household items as I did 10 years ago. However if all I watch is the price of gas and gold I may mistakenly conclude that the dollar is weak. This weakness does reduce the value of debt held by overseas investors, and in effect makes the US less susceptible to foreign pressures. We have to give credit to the Fed who are managing these complexities with great great finesse. China will be significant but just watch when the Latin American and African countries get in-full swing-on the action. There will be competition and wild swings all over the place. What places America and other democracies above the rest is basic freedom. Our choices make our nation and we are completely free to choose. China is a managed monopolar behemoth, and ask this dinosaur to do a 180 flip and it may stress to breaking point.
On the subject of coins I received my 1 Oz AGE – nice coin for the collection in OGP. No plans for TPG interference.
I think the price of gold will continue to increase. There might be some correction to may be $1500 in the next 2 years but will continue to go up. I feel the main reason is India which is the largest consumer of gold for jewellary and as Indians we buy gold for every thing I mean everything like with marrages, birthdays, when baby is born, at least 4 festivals a year and the list goes on. Now with the swelling middle class in India there is even more increase in demand for gold. I don’t know how it plays with inflation but price of gold will go up, my 2 cents on price of gold.
If you don’t want everything here “made in China” stop buying the products and tell store managers you don’t want it either. It’s not the government’s fault we don’t have jobs, it our fault as consumers. 10+ years ago I said we were going to be in trouble if we thought we didn’t need to make anything in this country anymore. Folks just can’t resist nice looking stuff with brand names such as Ralph Lauren that actually are made like crap, don’t last and yes, made in China. Demand better! Don’t get upset with the Mint trying to get as much money as possible from you. At least the money stays here in the USA and helps some Americans have jobs. I only (now) collect US Mint products.
Many folks in Cleveland, Detroit and other US cities would love to have jobs making nice stuff that will be better than the Chinese stuff, if you the consumer, are willing to pay a little more, and help get our economy back on track.
“It’s not the government’s fault we don’t have jobs, it our fault as consumers.”
Well, that’s not entirely true. If we truly had a pure capitalist system, then the invisible hand of the marketplace would dictate things. The fact of the matter is that we have a mixed economic system with government playing a controlling part.
The government dictated the minimum wage and the government keeps raising the minimum wage. If there were no minimum wage in this country, then we would compete on a more equal footing with China and other low wage and subsequently low cost labor countries. The reason so many of our products come from China is because labor costs are much lower there. It just makes economic sense for companies to manufacture there because the costs are lower. At one time (back in the fifties and sixties), Japan was the low cost producer and much of our merchandise said “made in Japan.”
In order to win back jobs, we have to lower the cost of production which would mean lower wages. This starts with a lower minimum wage not a higher minimum wage. No one in government is willing to face this economic fact and so they call for a higher minimum wage rather than a lower minimum wage. Higher wages translates to fewer jobs here in America and more jobs in China, India, Hondoras, Mexico, Viet Nam, Philippines, Indonesia and other low wage countries. This is simple economics. Our government continues to do the exact opposite of what it should do.
Sorry for the seeming rant but many people here seem to miss the simple economic laws of supply and demand which apply to the cost of labor as well as the cost of goods and services.
LL
Well despite world views the mint has once again suspended the Buffalo and Eagles, Looks like we are in for some quanatative raising of prices once again.
I just dont understand the point of the mints pricing grid if they are just going to suspend products so they can reprice them at their convenience. I have never once seen them suspend any item because PM’s dropped in price and they needed to lower the asking prices. God forbid if the consumer was to get a good deal on something. Not that the mint has many good deals anyway, but I think you know what I am saying.
Have there been any updates to the legislation that was introduced that would end the presidential dollar program? I haven’t heard anything since it first came out.
Now would be a good time for the Mint to do the right thing and reprice it’s clad offerings, especially minimally packaged items such as rolls. If they offered them at face, they have already made money from seigniorage (just like they do on all coins minted, except the nickel and cent). These products are no different from what they ship to the Federal Reserve Banks, no special finish, no special handling, no extra quality control. I can see a small premium for the proof or unc. offings for the packaging and special handling.That just might preserve the collector base, but I won’t be holding my breath.
A local dealer will buy your clad annual sets for $7. This represents a 9 cent mark-up of it’s face value worth. Storage of these items, plus zero interest on them forever may convince some to sell for $7.
I’ve also noticed with the rise of PMs, not only are modern clad usually is worth face value, but higher priced PM coins (1999 silver sets) have been steadily falling in value, getting closer to melt (still with premiums, but on the decline). So the real winners (on the aftermarket) have been the lower priced PMs (ie. 2000 silver sets). Maybe we should just collect some bullion now and eventually use the proceeds to buy coins at a later date?
Like I mentioned I’m buying quarter silver proof sets below melt on eBay even with shipping. I can’t justify the premiums on mint issued products at this level. It’s at the point where I need to be more concerned with my investments using my discretionary income for PM’s more so than mint issued products.
“Have there been any updates to the legislation that was introduced that would end the presidential dollar program? I haven’t heard anything since it first came out.”
All five bills are in committee and haven’t been voted on. Congress has been on summer recess from Aug 8 to Sept 5.
Michael you stated that the 2010 silver proof set would end in December is the same true for the 2011 sets?
There was no specific ending date provided for the 2011 sets.
Based on past practice, sales might continue until the release of the corresponding 2012 sets or until inventory is depleted. Or the Mint might continue to change things up and continue sales as the 2012 sets are available.
That isn’t much of an answer, but the Mint has grown less predictable lately. I will try to get some confirmation.
The household limit for the Mount Hood 5oz silver coin (NP5) has now been removed.
It may still take at least another week or two for it to sell out though…
Thanks Michael, I was asking because if they do stop once the 2012 sets come out then the mintage for the 2011 sets will appear to be lower than the 2010 sets and even thought they are more expensive they maybe the better buy based on the current mintage. Thank you again!
Will there be a sales report today?
I haven’t received the data yet. It might be late since Monday was a holiday.