2012 San Francisco Silver Eagle Two Coin Set

The United States Mint has posted details of the upcoming 2012 San Fransisco American Silver Eagle Two Coin Proof Set on a preliminary product page.

As covered in a previous post, the product will contain one 2012-S Proof Silver Eagle and one 2012-S Reverse Proof Silver Eagle. At this time, it seems that both of these coins will be unique to the set.

The Mint will be offering the sets for sale during a period of only four weeks from June 7, 2012 to July 5, 2012. During this time, there will be no household limits and no maximum mintage. The mintage of the coins will be determined based on orders received during the period. Pricing for the set has not yet been announced.

The US Mint has obviously chosen their offering strategy in direct response to the situation which had occurred for the 25th Anniversary Silver Eagle Sets. These sets had a mintage limit of 100,000, household ordering limit of five, and sold out in less than one day.

Although some collectors are not thrilled about the criteria established by the US Mint for the current offering, things could have been worse. When the US mint has reacted to an unexpected sell out by increasing the mintage or lowering the ordering limits, they have tended to overshoot the mark.

After the sell outs of the 20th Anniversary Gold and Silver Eagle Sets, the US Mint offered the 10th Anniversary Platinum Eagle Sets. The sets contained one-half ounce proof and reverse proof coins with the product limit set at a whopping 30,000 sets. (Up until that point, the maximum number of one-half ounce proof platinum eagles sold by the US Mint during any one year was 15,431.) Although the US Mint produced sets to the entire maximum mintage, sales never reached that level. After a few suspensions related to precious metals prices, sales officially closed on December 31, 2008 with final sales reaching 19,583 sets. The two Platinum Eagles included in the set now represent the two highest mintage one-half ounce proof coins of the entire series.

After sell outs of the first two issues of the First Spouse Gold Coin series, the US Mint dropped the ordering limit to just one per household. Even after collector interest had fallen dramatically and opening orders dwindled, the Mint continued to impose an initial ordering limit of one per household until the middle of 2008. Imposing such a strict ordering limit long after it was necessary may have served to further discourage collector interest in the series.

If the US Mint had tried to establish a higher mintage limit for the 2012 San Francisco Silver Eagle Set, I think they would have come up with a ridiculously high number while at the same time imposing a one per household limit. This would have resulted in an overproduced product which would linger in the product catalog for a long time to come.

There is some precedent for offering a special coin or set with an unlimited mintage for a specified time. These situations have actually worked out well for collectors.

Most recently, the US Mint offered the 2009 Ultra High Relief Double Eagle Gold Coin for almost a full year. Although there were ordering limits imposed at the start of the offering, the limits were eventually increased, and then completely removed. Late in the year, the US Mint announced a specific date for the conclusion of sales. The last reported sales were 115,178, which seemed high at the time, but has ultimately come to be recognized as limited compared to the worldwide collector demand for the coin.

Looking at some past US Mint promotional materials, it seems that the 1998 Kennedy Collector’s Set, which contained a matte proof 1998-S Kennedy Half Dollar, was available for ordering for only six weeks. Collectors were enthusiastic about the offering following the success of the 1994-P and 1997-P matte proof Jefferson Nickels included in previous commemorative coin sets. Orders for the Kennedy Set reached about 62,000 with the specified period. Once again, this product went on to secondary market success and continues to hold a strong premium.

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Comments

  1. Brad says

    I’ll gamble on a few of these sets just in case. Who knows, maybe the lack of limits imposed might make a lot of those who would have otherwise bought not bother with it.

  2. Brad says

    Oh and by the way, the 2009 Ultra High Relief really WAS a winning buy for certain. I recently sold the last of the three I bought back then, and it went for $3,050. That’s a far cry from the $1,289 that I paid. There will even be quite a bit of money left over for me after I give Uncle Sam and the State of Illinois their share! 🙂

  3. Frank says

    I will order even if I lose money on it. At the end of the day, it is a better set than the 25th last year with all unique coins.

  4. blackbeard says

    The ultrahigh relief by far one of the best looking coin in my collection. Same here Frank on ordering I’m in.

  5. joe says

    I love the 2009 UHR! It’s a classic coin that has done well. I remember people complaining on another of Michael’s threads back in late 2009/early 2010 that it was over-produced, especially after the Mint lifted all ordering restrictions. It was easy to pickup a PCGS MS70 graded coin for under $2K for six months after the coin sales were ended, even though gold had appreciated. Those who purchased earlier (like Brad mentioned he did above) did even better.

    Let’s face it…a classic is a classic…and while mintage does impact secondary prices, classics will always do well.

    Speaking of other potential classics – Michael – do you know whatever happened to the proposed UHR Mercury Palladium coin that was approved by congress?

  6. says

    Joe,

    I believe you are referring to the proposed palladium eagle. I do not think it will be UHR.

    The requirements for the coin are for the Mint to have a third party firm conduct a marketing study on whether any public demand exists for palladium eagles. The study is then supposed to be submitted to Congress. Assuming such demand exists and is confirmed in the study, the Mint then must start producing the palladium eagles within a year.

    The “study” portion of things seems to be moving very slowly. They began a study in the latter half of 2011, but they had to throw out the results when they discovered the firm they employed has ties to the palladium industry. It must be conducted all over again with a new party, and I believe they had settled on a new firm or were close to doing so as of late January.

    No new news has been heard since then.

    This was the article talking about the government’s attempts to relaunch the study: http://www.coinworld.com/articles/mint-to-seek-new-contract-on-palladium-coin-s/

    I would not anticipate seeing any palladium eagles until 2013.

  7. Michael says

    Regarding the palladium coins, there has still been no new information on the required marketing study to determine demand for the coins. I believe the US Mint awarded the contract at some point in 2011, but it was later determined that the company was not independent, so the Mint had to go back to the start of the procurement process.

    By law, the coins can’t be produced until the marketing study is performed and supports that there is sufficient market demand for the product.

  8. Drew says

    I’m hoping that the tv cronies won’t hoard their 10’s of thousands and keep the overall mintage low for us collectors. One can wish can’t they? Count me in for a few sets.

  9. Michael says

    CO- You beat me to the answer.

    The coins are required to be high relief, but not ultra high relief.

  10. Drew says

    Also just noticed the picture looks like it might be a smaller version of the box the 25th anniv sets came in. Let’s hope so.

  11. says

    @Tim…only the “S” mint mark Reverse Proof is a first ever in the Silver Eagle series.
    The regular Silver Eagle Proof was minted at the S.F. mint from 1986-1992 and has the “S” mint mark.

  12. Louis says

    I’ve reassessed my view and am in for 2-3 sets depending on price. I just hope this does not the end of limited edition sets.

  13. tim says

    The problem with A25 sets: ordering limit of 5 was too high with 100,000 mintage

    Solution would seem to be: lower ordering limit and maintain/increase mintage for future sets

    What the Mint is actually doing for SF75 sets: order limit of UNLIMITED with UNLIMITED mintage

    Perhaps the time constraint will couteract the aforementioned terms, which seem contrary to a rational solution. Time will tell!

  14. Brad says

    You can bet everyone in the know will be keeping a close eye on the weekly sales reports, and if the number sold is favorable enough on the lower side, July 4th and 5th might see some HEFTY sales totals. The difference between the number posted on the July 1st and the July 8th sales reports might be staggering!

  15. jeff72 says

    Michael says:

    “By law, the coins can’t be produced until the marketing study is performed and supports that there is sufficient market demand for the product”.

    Jeff72 says: “course we ALL know that we don’t need no stinkin study to justify a super cool palladium UHR Mercury release….we will fall all over ourselves trying to get one …or 2 …
    🙂

  16. Frank says

    Just curious what is the difference between UHR and HR coins and any previous HR coins issued before. I am only aware of the UHR 09 AGE.

  17. Sam says

    Just when I think the Mint can’t screw things up more, the do this — the only gain will be those third party late night sites that will repackage for absurd premiums

    it looks like a nice set, and I know I will get one or two — but don’t plan on flipping them on ebay any time soon

  18. Louis says

    Brad,
    There will be need to wait for the weekly sales reports, as there will be a counter online that shows how many sets are sold as they are sold. I don’t know if they will count them right away, or wait until orders are confirmed, but it sounds pretty neat.

  19. says

    Louis, Brad…I get the impression sales with be updated on a daily basis.

    “In an effort to publicly share the rate of sales of what we expect to be a very popular product, there will be a sales odometer placed on the U.S. Mint’s website ordering page to track daily sales of the set,” said Tom Jurkowsky, Mint public affairs director.

  20. TomP says

    The order starting date of 6/07 may be set, but what will be the start shipping date? There seemed to be a long delay for the 25th Annv. set. A Mint CSR did tell me yesterday this new set will be packaged in a hardwood box similar to the 25th annv. set. The packaging may be snag if as expected large quantities are ordered. For this reason I will be ordering early.

  21. VA Bob says

    This is probably the best the Mint can do to please a customer base that is never completely satisfied (myself included). The flippers will be watching until the counter reaches 250-300K in coins sold, then the speculators are out. I believe that will happen in the first week. After 500K most of the serious ASE collectors will have their empty spots filled. All that will remain will be the casual collectors and the gift givers, and that’s really the unknown quantity.

    With silver ASE bullion production down, there are plenty of silver blanks to go around. Buy them if you like them, cause they will not be rare.

  22. TomP says

    Steve, Thanks. I thought it may be delayed as long as the Infantry special set which must be making the ‘dog tag’ out of palladium. lol

  23. Samuel says

    i bet dealers will hoard tens of thousand sets. so the price will be down for a long time.

  24. ClevelandRocks says

    Nice going Mint (seriously)! Buy what you want. Likely will eventually have small premiums, but seems like a fair deal to me. I’m in for 5 sets. If you want big premiums, my bet is for those awful First Spouse coins, but I wouldn’t want to actually have to look at them.

  25. jon Tipps says

    This is the most bullish scenario for ASE 25 sets. Buy ASE 25 sets seems to be the rational strategy now.

  26. stephen m. says

    I have to get the set to have the third reverse proof silver eagle. Mintage, i predict, 634,000 sets.

  27. DNA says

    Finally, I’ll have an “affordable” Reverse Proof ASE that I can stick in my Dansco 7070!

    Since I love ASE’s, S-mint coins, Proofs and Reverse Proofs, I will buy several of these 2012-S Sets for my own personal enjoyment.

  28. John C says

    I think the mint finally got it right with this approach. Nobody can really complain about not being able to get any and the short ordering window will prevent the sales from skyrocketing. Now the fun part……what will the mintage be? It seems to me that regular proof eagles left to their own devices make it to 700,00 or 800,000. I am guessing that the sales will be lower, probably around 400,000 to 500,000 so my guess will be 445,220. Anybody else have any guesses? BTW I still think these will be good long term investments even if the sales reach 800,000 and they very well might. The reverse proof coins are just too good looking.

  29. Buck says

    I do not care if I ever realize one dime of profit on these new ASE’s. I love my Country, I love the hobby, and I love the ASE series. I’m in for at least 2 sets – maybe more.

  30. Shutter says

    Since there is no limit and every collector who wants one will have a shot, I don’t see the dealers hoarding a whole bunch of them. Their business is built on quick turnover or big mark up. They will buy a bunch for those who want only graded coins, but that’s it. It’s unlikely that there will be a huge demand in the short term. I’m betting the total mintage will be 125-150K, most of it coming in the first week.

    Of course, there is always a chance that a problem at the mint creates a separate variety or there is a quality control problem. Then the demand might go through the roof, but by then they won’t be taking anymore orders.

    By the way, I fully agree with ClevelandRocks. This is the best way to handle this release. Those who want the coins are pretty much guaranteed a chance to buy from the mint, TV guys will buy a few thousand to sell to rubes, and most dealers will not have to pay premiums to get decent inventory. O, and they won’t be on sale for 2½ years, so Cleaveland will be happy too. Everybody wins.

  31. Ikaika says

    At least this time we will not have web server crashes, phone lines that are constantly busy, people calling in sick on the release date. It will be interesting to see the demand for this particular set. We always learn something new from these special releases.

  32. ClevelandRocks says

    2011 5 oz ATBs on sale! Limited window of opportunity, 2011-2015 only.
    2011 proof Gold Buffs, available only from 2011-2013.

  33. Ikaika says

    BTW, I am just glad the US Mint is finally releasing something worth buying (IMHO) this year so far. Most of my purchases have been with the Perth and RCM. The lack of exciting products is sure taking revenue away from them.

  34. j says

    crazy,,, any and all special ase should have a limit that’s what determines value now it will be just another piece of silver? wish they would limit all ase make more value should go buy how much you buy from them if you are a regular subscription holder and so forth ill be in for at least 3 set 1 to open and 2 for the sets of 20th and 25th anniversary that is still enclosed in boxes. MORE VALUE!!!!!

  35. j says

    I THINK LESS PRODUCED MAKE THEM TAKE MORE CARE IN THEY WAY THEY LOOK THESE WILL BE MASS PRODUCED AND WILL NOT BE LIKE THE 25TH ANN. WITH MANY HIGH GRADE WONT BE AS NICE SORRY MINT BUT THIS WAY YOU CANT PUT MUCH OF PREMIUM ON AND IT WONT BE A big HIT AS IN PAST IF THEY WEN TO A 2 PER HOUSE LIMIT AND A SET MINTAGE LIKE 200,000 AT LEAST THERE WILL BE A WANT TO ORDER BUT NOW ILL JUST BUY WHEN I GET HOME FROM WORK AND KNOW ILL GET THEM UNLIKE THE 25TH WHERE I WAS UNSURE BUT FINALLY GOT THEM NOT TO FLIP BUT BECAUSE IT WAS LIMITED!

  36. Hidalgo says

    I would imagine that without production limits and the really possibility that the set will sell for less than $150 each, my guess is that there would more than 100,000 of these sets being sold (more than the 2011 ASE Anniversary sets).

    With that being said, I would think that last year’s 2011 S uncirculated ASE coin and 2011 reverse proof ASE coin would be relatively rare and with time, can be sold at a premium if worldwide demand exists for this coin.

  37. Mercury says

    Not to be the devils advocate, or the voice of reason here, but in the treads, I hear a lot of talk on how many sets I can now purchase, that being anywhere from two to three to tens of thousands. I think I read in only one submission where someone is actually taking this Mint opportunity as a chance to purchase the set just so they will be able to complete their ASE series. What’s happening to the ideals of coin collecting? Has coin collecting now become the business of coin hoarding? Remember when a baseball card collector would have to buy multi packs of cards just to find that one prized sought after card that nobody else had. Now that collecting. What I see here is not coin collectors, but glorified purchasing agents. Instead of having that one card, we’ve convinced the company to put that prized sought after card in every pack.

  38. Hidalgo says

    @Mercury. You got to realize that a lot of coin dealers, retailers, flippers, and speculators visit this blog. And they sure do comment! I can pretty much tell who they are now, based on what they say and how they say it…. Read the posts above carefully, and you’ll see what I mean…. LOL!

  39. simon says

    As a collector I view this offering as very unique. Here are my reasons : S-Mint reverse proof and S-Mint proof in a special packaging issued for the 75th anniv of the San Francisco Mint. Two more ASE products for the year which makes it a 4-coin special year, not counting the (S) and (W) bullion coins. The third reverse proof offering in silver – I like the number 3. The COA will be very unique as well for those of us who like the highly desirable OGP. The price is great. I have read a lot of comments here exploring the potential values (or lack thereof) for resale of this set. This is of absolutely no concern to me. As a collector, I view this as an opportunity to expand my culture of coin collecting, and I plan to purchase 2 sets for keepers.

  40. Saucexx says

    As a collector I’m not really interested in buying a coin that is going to lose value. So I think it’s naive to think a “real” collector only buys without regard to price appreciation. If I wanted to do that I’d just keep buying new cars. I have a limited budget and between all the world mints and the coins I like, it takes a lot of money to keep up. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with buying extra and selling some if necessary. That gives me the option of liquidating one or more coins if the market heats up which means even more coins I can buy for myself. That being said I will definitely be buying these whether they mint 100K or 1 million. It’s still a limited product when compared with the millions of proofs and uncirculated ASEs that exist. I believe this set will make three RP’s in the series, all with relatively low mintages, so how can you pass that up?

  41. Troy says

    This is absurd. I bought the 2011 25th Anniversary Set solely because the total mintage of the “S” Reverse Proof, “S” Proof and “S” uncirculated was to be 100K, no more, no less.

    The US Mint had the right idea, make a special coin set, limit the number in mintages, place a house hold limit and give the public a modern coin that will may actually increase in value. All you whiney “collectors” complaining that the mint distributed/sold/website problems, etc are making the wrong complaint.

    What you should be complaining about is the fact that dealers take advantage of the public by procuring via multiple channels and gaining “quantity over the five per house hold”., i.e. (John M. Mercanti Engraver Signed Sets)…how did they get that set is what I’d like to know… the other complaint should be why you didn’t win the lottery… See that’s the beauty of the sale… lot’s can buy a ticket, but few will win.

  42. Jon in CT says

    Brad wrote on April 27, 2012 at 5:37 pm:

    You can bet everyone in the know will be keeping a close eye on the weekly sales reports, and if the number sold is favorable enough on the lower side, July 4th and 5th might see some HEFTY sales totals. The difference between the number posted on the July 1st and the July 8th sales reports might be staggering!

    It has been reported elsewhere that the Mint will add a “sales odometer” to the order page which will track daily sales; and that the Mint will begin order fulfillment in late July, after the close of the order window. I believe the Mint’s “sales odometer” should be called an “order odometer” because not all orders translate to sales.

    I can envision a scenario that contrasts with Brad’s. Suppose I’m a commercial scale flipper and I place a huge order. Come July 6, after the order window is closed, I analyze the orders odometer and decide whether I can make a decent profit. If I decide the number of orders is too high for me to move much inventory quickly, I simply cancel my huge order before order fulfillment begins in late July. And other flippers would be performing a similar analysis. Since these cancellations would occur after the close of the order window, I doubt the Mint would continue to update the orders odometer and we would not find out what the true sales numbers are until August.

  43. Samuel says

    just curious, those of you who plan to buy multiple sets, you will order them 1-by-1 and keep in the sealed UPS box, or order in a big order. this time, we have plenty time to order, and it only add $5 for a set.

  44. Natatack says

    Wonder how they are going to have the ordering availability for the 2012 S uncirculated ASE. Will be interesting to see which of the 5 coins(ASE)from the mint will be the lowest for this year and how they will impact the 2011 Anniversary set coins. Wished they could have released them together so I could send them in to get the early release designation on the grading. I think with the popularity of eBay in the past few years has given a lot of opportunity to people to be flippers instead of trying to sell to their local dealers. I like the idea of being able to sell off my 69’s and keeping my 70’s without taking a loss on it.

  45. DNA says

    I do wish this had been a three-coin Set, with a 2012-S Burnished in addition to the Proof + Reverse Proof. This would have been the perfect compliment to the 20th Anniversary Set, and a three-coin blue box would have been much more visually impressive than the two-coin box.

  46. Tom says

    I certainly understand how some would be upset over what they envision as a missed opportunity to flip sets for a profit or for unrealized/paper gains for what would otherwise be a certain rarity with high demand should there be a limited mintage.

    However, the mint obviously alienated a lot of collectors with the A25 set. I think it was a foregone conclusion that they would not risk a repeat with this set. If they had a repeat of the A25 fiasco with this release they would run the risk of losing a large number of collectors for good.

    Releasing this set with an unlimited mintage is low risk for them. I would not underestimate, however, the importance of the limited release period. A lot of people are going to miss the window of opportunity to order the set, and once delivery begins, I foresee a robust secondary market with many collectors wanting to buy more.

    The 2006 set has appreciated by 450% to this point, and the 2011 set by 150%. Years from now people will factor in how this set was only available from the mint for a month.

  47. Brad says

    I still haven’t seen in any sort of official announcement whether or not there will be a household ordering limit for this set. The preliminary product page doesn’t mention it yay or nay. The 2009 UHR did not have a mintage limit, but it DID have a household ordering limit for a large part of it’s availability period. Just because the product will be minted “to demand” doesn’t mean the Mint doesn’t reserve the right to limit how much “demand” can come from one household.

  48. Jon in CT says

    Brad wrote April 28, 2012 at 9:51 pm

    I still haven’t seen in any sort of official announcement whether or not there will be a household ordering limit for this set. The preliminary product page doesn’t mention it yay or nay.

    That “news” is based on reports from Mint customer services representatives (CSRs), like the one at http://mintnewsblog.com/2012/04/2012-presidential-dollars-proof-set/#comment-30021 which was posted prior to the appearance of the preliminary product page mentioned in the blog post above and contained other details which proved to be 100% accurate.

  49. Brad says

    Yeah, I saw all of that you referenced before. I’m just curious why there’s no mention of an order limit or lack thereof on the Mint’s page. Maybe the Mint is still mulling that one over before making an official decision. I take ANYTHING any of the Mint’s CSR’s say with a grain of salt.

  50. Shutter says

    Sam, what exactly would be the point of keeping this set in a sealed UPS box? With A25, people did that so they could send them to TPG, and ensure that the 3 non-unique coins were marked with 25th Anniversary Set pedigree. This set will only have unique coins, so that’s not necessary. I know $5 isn’t a lot of money, but it adds up.

  51. NATATACK says

    Only I can think of why one might keep a sealed box in this incident when both coins are unique to the set is, I think PCGS can still give the coins first strike designation according to the date on the packaging label while NGC won’t after 30 days after first shipping. Does anybody know for sure? The other possiblity that people may want an unopened box is that the coins are not cherry picked.

  52. j says

    not a flipper just a collector and i like having the chance to get something that is limited and special,,, in a way this will be just a dressed up bullion ? from san fran

  53. j says

    sad very SAD! will buy mine anyway but the mint could make a limit mintage to make them somewhat valuable compared to bullion but it just looks like they want to make more cash form them and leave the true collector with just a piece of silver SAD!

  54. guama says

    @Buck…you are so correct and I am 100% in agreement with you. I am in for a couple of sets myself:)

  55. Shutter says

    NATATACK,

    Good point on PCGS First Strike eligibility. Not sure what’s the real value of First Strike/Early Release designation, particularly in the case of of sets that are only available for a short time, like A25 and this one. Even if NGC and PCGS offer pedigree designation for SF set, it’s not worth extra money, since the coins are already unique.

    I guess, cherry picking is an issue. However, if I’m buying on eBay from someone I don’t know, I’d be more concerned about getting an empty sealed box than cherry picking.

  56. Two Cents says

    Shutter, the sealed Mint box might be a commodity in itself. Perhaps the box trades hands still sealed, with nobody ever intending to open it. Once it is opened, the set inside becomes like any other OGP set out there, and its premium value is gone.

  57. Shutter says

    Two Cents,

    IOW, it might take years and dozens of sales before someone opens the box and realizes that he had been swindled. Paying premium for what may or may not be coins that you want. Seems like a sucker bet.

  58. Natatack says

    I guess the mass marketers could try to assemble a 5 piece set and could use the left over boxes from the 25th ASE set with a different cover or even a 6 piece set if they add an uncirculated no mint mark eagle. Different ways they could market this

  59. VA Bob says

    I would recommend anyone buying that they at least purchase 2 sets minimum. If one gets a “clunker” then they can still (hopefully) put a nice set together. I doubt one would be able to get a replacement by the time these ship and the cut off date happens. With the number of these the Mint will be making, there may be a potential for quality issues.

    Despite what HSN or the other coin hawkers say the minute these are no longer available from the Mint, they will never be a rarity. The folks that buy there will believe their pitch and pay the TV guys the premium, I guess all the better for business that those type of people exist.

    I just typed in “25th anniversary silver eagle set” on eBay and got 572 items returned. If even a quarter of the results are for “sets”, I’m of the opinion that those sets are not really rare either. Fact is a good percentage of flippers got these (people that really don’t want them) and now they are (still) leaking into collector hands. Unless they become “victims” of some natural disaster, there will always be 100K of these (some broken up, of course).

  60. Hidalgo says

    I suspect that most buyers of multiple unopened anniversary ASE sets are big time coin dealers. Why would a collector want to pay $1000s for multiple sets? With that being said, I have heard of coin dealers who cherry pick coins and assemble “great” sets and “average” sets. Remember what one popular coin dealer did with the 2010 ATB 5 ounce coins? LOL!

    So, if I were a coin dealer, I would prefer to have an unopened (boxed) ASE set since I know that I would have a chance of getting some really nice coins rather than some second-hand coins. And I would be willing to pay a higher price for the boxed set because as an unscrupulous coin dealer, I likely have switched coins myself and know better…. LOL!

  61. Tom says

    As someone alluded to earlier, if the odometer sales reading going into the last few days of availability is relatively low, sales will likely skyrocket just before the window closes.

    I think many people will order 1 or 2 sets early after the sales window opens. But, if the odometer is only at 200,000 come July 1, which is possible but probably unlikely, those same people will place another order for multiple sets.

    I think this will be really fascinating to watch.

  62. Shutter says

    It makes sense that if you buy 1 or 2 sets and the odometer is relatively low, to buy more. What doesn’t make sense is to simply wait for the end to place the order. Silver spot could do a weird zigzag (as it did earlier this year) and the mint will shut down for “repricing”, and then you miss the window. I plan to place my order at the earliest opportunity.

  63. Addielise says

    Actually I’d prefer if there was no sales counter on the page or sales figures released until after the deadline. Would make things really interesting……

  64. DCDave says

    Are you guys insane enough to believe there will be an “odometer”?
    You think the Mint is really capable of putting some real-time sales count on the website? LOL, LOL, LOL!
    The only “odometer” will be weekly sales reports.

  65. Hidalgo says

    Where does is say that there will be a counter on the 2012 American Eagle San Francisco Two-Coin Silver Proof Set website?

    Also, if there is a counter, y’all need to remember that there are counters that count the number of page visits, and another that counts the number of unique visits (tied to your IP address). So the number of “hits” registered depends on the type of counter used. A counter can register one hit for a visitor, or 100 hits for a visitor who goes to the website 100 times.

    Food for thought. Go with the official US Mint sales report (if orders (versus sales) will be provided for this product).

  66. Hidalgo says

    @Tom. Thanks. The article states that there will be “sales” odomoter placed on the U.S. Mint site. I interpret that to mean that everyone must placed orders with their credit cards. More than likely, the credit cards will not be billed until the orders ship.

    However, I am wondering if the odometer can subtract sales if folks change their minds, return coins, etc…..

    I anticipate the sets will cost about 2 ASE x $60 each = $120 or thereabouts. Look how many single ASE bullion coins are sold in a regular month…. With that relatively low cost, I can see 1,000s of sets being sold.

  67. Samuel says

    the counter thing is very very easy technically. the number is used to track inventory, like the apmex, u can always see “xxxx available”. it is the same thing, just whether the company wants to show it to you or not.

  68. DCDave says

    Actually the weekly reports seem like enough for me, not sure what some counter would do and also doubt this will happen. They really need to have some time limits for availabilty across the board, like maybe a year.

  69. Louis says

    The Mint’s public affairs officer told Coin World that the odometer will be updated every day at 3pm, but I don’t know about order cancellations (whether those will be subtracted is unclear).

  70. dave says

    ill wager a guess and say the set will cost 149.99 and mintage will be around 750,000, dont care im in for a set regardless and i know i can get one with peice of mind

  71. Dan says

    After the A25 release fiasco, I wrote a lengthy letter to the US Mint, explaining that I have been a long time collector dating back to the early 70’s and that I wad disappointed with the ordering process. Their system lacked capacity and favored those who were seeking a quick buck (witness the number of sets on eBay that were selling for 2x – 3x the purchase price while others were waiting patiently to see if their orders would be processed). I suggested that they impose a lower initial household limit or provide a limited run. I suspect other folks may have felt the same way and they acted upon those suggestions. I will purchase 2 sets (as always) and in 20 years start selling the collection to supplement my retirement income. I know that this is America the land of opportunity and by nature a capitalistic society and others may like the idea of making a quick buck and that’s fine for them. I am just relieved that the US Mint is listening. I guess you could say that had it not been for the entrepreneurial spirit of some coin buyers, the US Mint would not have had to act the way they did.

  72. Dan says

    Back in the early 90’s there was a show on TV called Southern Coin Club featuring a guy named Buddy Pardue. He seemed like a nice guy and had a wealth of information. He suggested that given the opportunity to buy a Proof Commemorative, look to buy the un circulated version if you could only afford one or the other as those would be worth far more than the proof versions down the years. In the few gold commemorative coins that I have purchased over the years, his wisdom rang true on several occasions. Also he noted that if possible purchase coins earlier from the US Mint rather than later as there was a higher probability of getting a First Strike and therefore a higher grade (quality) coin. Years from now, i doubt that anyone would care that a coin was MS70 First Strike or MS70. MS70 is MS70. Also First Strike in the contents of dated submissions is meaningless as its unknown when the coin was actually made, without a date/time stamp for the coin and not the package. I think people pay huge sums of money for a First Strike designation and that’s all they are paying for. It’s the coin, not the label.

  73. Dan says

    What I think will be interesting is how often the US Mint comes out with a Reverse Proof. If they do this often, it will not be a “special” product. I think this 75th anniversary set is more of an opportunity for them than for the collector, given that until now it has been for major yearly releases. Look for anniversary coins from the other mints and perhaps reverse proofs for major anniversaries of all US coins in production.

  74. Dan says

    I think that Tom said it best when he said “the mint obviously alienated a lot of collectors with the A25 set”. The way I see it, rather than have flippers make the money on the coins, it’s better for the US Mint to make “money” on the sets at least initially.

    Do people in general collect coins for the sake of having a collection? or is it a business or a combination of both? For me it’s a collection first and foremost and hopefully something that I can sell down the road (i.e., in retirement) to other collectors who are interested in gaining access to coins they could not otherwise purchase.

    Night.

  75. billy silver says

    Its about time for the us mint to make a unc ase that is as rare as the 1995w proof, that is if they have not already done so?

  76. billy silver says

    The people that spent their hard earned money on the 20th silver eagle set got slapped in the face with the low mintage of the 25th silver eagle set.

  77. VA Bob says

    @ Dan – First Strike (or Early Release) is just a gimmick created by the TPG’s to charge extra. The fact that people willingly pay more for a label amazes me, but they do (I refuse to). The truth is that the order that coins leave the Mint is not necessarily the first ones struck. Also your “FS” might have been the last coin struck from a worn-out die, while a later coin may have had a mint fresh one. If the TPG’s could find something else to come up with to charge more (and give the (label) collector another false sense of “value”) they would.

    Here’s proof of the greed. All the 2011 25th Anniversary sets sold out the first day. So shouldn’t everyone of them be “First Strike”? Well only if you paid for it. But why should some collector, who knows the history of the coin, pay a premium on the secondary market? There is no good reason, yet look how many eBay auctions for these sets highlight the “FS” gimmick. I wish this didn’t work to increase coin price, but sadly they sometimes do. I hope this fad goes away. A coin should stand on its own merit, whether in or out of the slab.

    I half wish the Mint would punch a hole in this TPG trickery by including an equally ridiculous serial number on the certificate of authentic, as some foreign mints do. Does anyone believe that numbered cert is following that coin, production to packaging? Nice dream, but at least it would throw a wrench in the silly FS gimmick, especially if that 000001 coin is not an PF/MS 70. Buy the coin not the label.

    If anyone hasn’t figured out my feelings about TPG’s, it should be clear now. The only merit I personally can see for slabbed coins is to prove authenticity (i.e. not a fake or altered). That gives the buyer (especially over the Internet) some piece of mind. So I’m not a complete hater.

  78. TomC says

    “The people that spent their hard earned money on the 20th silver eagle set got slapped in the face with the low mintage of the 25th silver eagle set.”

    I found this to be the most puzzling part of the mint’s mishandling of the A25 release. Having a mintage of 250,000 for the 20th anniversary set and then a mintage of 100,000 for the 25th anniversary was, at the time, and still is to this day, completely baffling to me.

    As a result, I think the mint lost a lot of ASE collectors, myself included.

  79. billy silver says

    TO TOM C. Take a long hard look at the 2006 w unc silver eagles.You will need to have a few on hand?

  80. Louis says

    Billy,
    I don’t see why it’s a slap in the face. The 20th anniv. sets sell for 5 times issue price. The 25th anniv. sets so far sell for about 3 times issue price.

  81. merryxmasmrscrooge says

    i got my father’s lightning-fast computer set. we got mega GIG ROM and RAM. this will be sold out in 1 millisecond.

  82. stephen m. says

    Tom C., Perhaps i can explain how a government agency, like the Mint, operates. E-mail only interactions., deadlines for approval left stacked on desk for months without any action, meeting then called to close out past due deadlines where every important matter that has been backing up for six months is solved in a matter of an hour or so and then the process starts over. This SOP baffles anyone outside that trys to understand it. Buy the coins that you like and be happy.

  83. KC says

    Even the Mint sells 1 M set of the 75th SF coins It is going to be a good deal for collectors, flippers and coin deales. The next time you will see a set likes this will be 100th coin set. I will max it out since the SF-P and RP are the most unique so far in 2012.

  84. Brad says

    The 20th and 25th Anniversary sets should fare very well by the creation of this new “unlimited” SF set. The 20th set has actually rebounded somewhat in price after the release of the 25th set. I figured that was because of renewed interest in the 2006-P Reverse Proof coin, now that there is a 2011-P Reverse Proof as well.

    Now that a 2012-S Reverse Proof is coming (and likely to be produced in large numbers), both prior sets containing reverse proofs should have even more interest since they were limited to much smaller numbers.

    Who knows, though? Things that seem logical don’t always work out in the world of coin collecting. Why were those silly William Henry Harrison dollar rolls in special Mint paper selling for up to $300 per roll, while the John Tyler ones (which were supposedly produced to the exact same quantity as the Harrisons), snubbed by collectors? Remember those? 🙂

  85. RSF says

    This truely appears to be a contrived “special” set. I get that impression from the fact that the Mint’s product page description of the set doesn’t even mention the fact that it’s to commemorate the 75th Aniversary of the SF Mint.
    The marketing committee just wanted a vehicle to make up for the 25th deployment, and to sell a lot of ASEs.
    I like their strategy though. However, they also need to turn off the cancel option on the Order page within a few days of ordering, to disallow the ‘last minute cancelation’ problem from occuring. Make people do some analysis and take a little risk when making large orders. Should be fun to watch!

  86. Norm says

    Anyone know if the uncirculated S is for sure yet? This maybe the sleeper of the 5 mint issued ASE’s. I’m holding a few bucks back for this one.

  87. Michael says

    I haven’t seen any absolute confirmation on the uncirculated “S”. The expectation for the product comes from this statement in the 2011 Annual Report letter from the Deputy Director:

    “We also reprised the West Point mint mark for the American Eagle Silver Uncirculated Coin in 2011 and look forward to expanding this offering to include the San Francisco mint mark in 2012.”

  88. jeff72 says

    From the NA dollar post: Brad says:
    May 2, 2012 at 12:28 pm
    “Off-topic, but from today’s press release it’s now official: NO household ordering limit for the SF 75th Anniversary Silver Eagle set.”

    No limits = No interest from this collector……

    Sorry Mint

  89. Brad says

    Jeff,

    Keep an eye on the number of sets sold. If it’s written off by a large number of would-be buyers due to lack of limits, we might get lucky and sales might not reach gigantic proportions after all. Still, when it comes to something like this, four weeks can be a LONG time! Maybe the ordering window should have been two weeks. Even someone who still uses dial-up internet can get an order placed within two weeks! 🙂

  90. Samuel says

    RSF, i just wonder what “title” the mint is going to put on the top of the box.

  91. says

    I was able to get 5 of the 2011 sets but took a long time on the computer before they were confirmed. I sold 3 of the sets and kept 2 … one for myself and one for my grandson’s collection. Plan to order five of the 2012 sets … for all the collect silver eagles ,,, they will need this two eagle set.

  92. Natatack says

    I will hold out some extra funds for the unc-S this year and a possible set next year, hoping it will be UHR.

  93. picturefun says

    @VA Bob:\
    a lot of those hits of 25th anniversary ASE on Ebay are ONE single coin of the set, some are empty boxes, and vast of majority of the set/sets are graded already. Only around 35 sellers have Sealed sets that are still in the original box.

    so the demand is still there for the 2/3 unique coins in the set.

  94. Dan says

    I sense an anniversary set of ASE’s for West Point and Philadelphia in the works, now that San Francisco has been announced, then there is the upcoming 30th, 35th, 40th, etc … anniversaries. Sounds like the mint is onto something.

  95. Michael in Bama says

    Looks like the price should be $99.95 unless the mint want’s to create a rarity!

  96. John says

    What the mint is ACTUALLY doing is devaluating the once unique & valuable reverse proof SE. Each time they mint the RP it’s rarity drops. Thanks!

  97. NATATACK says

    My thinking is that sales will be brisk from the start, for those that want a early release/first strike label. The ones that order at the end may lose the opportunity. Not sure how much the regular proof will be worth if the mintage gets close to 500,000 like the other S proofs from San Francisco during the the earlier years, They were kind of duds till the price of silver went up.

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