2012 Star Spangled Banner $5 Gold Coin and Silver Dollar

Sales of the 2012 Star Spangled Banner Commemorative Coins will begin at the United States Mint on March 5, 2012 at 12:00 Noon ET. The available products include $5 gold coins and silver dollars in individual proof or uncirculated options, as well as a two coin proof set.

The program was authorized under Public Law 111-232 to commemorate the writing of the Star-Spangled Banner, the national anthem of the United States of America. The designs for the coins are required to be emblematic of the War of 1812 and particularly the Battle for Baltimore which formed the basis for the Star Spangled Banner.

The United States Mint initially prepared ten obverse and eight reverse design candidates for the $5 gold coin and six obverse and nine reverse design candidates for the silver dollar. These were reviewed by the Commission of Fine Arts, Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee, and the Maryland War of 1812 Bicentennial Commission.

During the review process, the CCAC took the interesting approach of evaluating all obverse and reverse design candidates together, without regards to how the US Mint had identified the designs. This resulted in obverse designs intended for the $5 gold coin being recommended for the silver dollar and vice versa. The Secretary of the Treasury followed these recommendations for the final design selection. (See coverage of the CCAC and CFA reviews and recommendations.)

The Star Spangled Banner Silver Dollar carries a design emblematic of the theme “The Battle of Baltimore at Fort McHenry. The obverse design depicts Liberty waving a 15-star, 15-stripe flag with Fort McHenry in the background. The reverse features a waving modern American flag. The obverse was designed by Joel Iskowitz and sculpted by Phebe Hemphill, while the reverse was designed by William C. Burgard III and sculpted by Don Everhart.

The silver dollars are struck at the Philadelphia Mint with the “P” mint mark. The maximum authorized mintage is 500,000 across proof and uncirculated versions.

The Star Spangled Banner $5 Gold Coin carries a design emblematic of the theme “The Battles at Sea During the War of 1812.” The obverse design depicts an American ship in the foreground with a damaged and fleeing British ship in the background. The reverse features the opening words of the Star Spangled Banner in Francis Scott Key’s handwriting against a backdrop of 15 stars and 15 stripes. The obverse was designed by Donna Weaver and sculpted by Joseph Menna, while the reverse was designed by Richard Masters and sculpted by Joseph Menna.

The gold coins are struck at the West Point Mint and carry the “W” mint mark. There is a maximum authorized mintage of 100,000 coins across proof and uncirculated versions.

The US Mint has indicated that the packaging for the individual silver dollars and gold coins will come in two different colors, blue or black. The blue packaging represents the older style prior to the US Mint’s rebranding, while the black packaging represents the newer style. To reduce waste, the Mint will use both versions of the packaging for this program, with fulfillment done at random.

A two coin set will be available for this program, which includes both the proof silver dollar and proof gold coin. This is the first time the US Mint has offered a multi-coin set for a commemorative coin program since 2008. For the two coin proof sets, there will be an initial household limit of 50 units per household. There is no stated product limit.

From the start of sales on March 5, 2012 at 12:00 Noon ET until April 5, 2012 at 5:00 PM ET, the Star Spangled Banner coins will be available at introductory pricing. After that date, regular pricing will go into effect. The introductory pricing for the silver dollars is $44.95 for uncirculated and $49.95 for proofs, while regular pricing is $49.95 for uncirculated and $54.95 for proofs.

The prices for the gold coins and two-coin proof set will be based on a grid and updated as frequently as weekly based on the average market price of gold. For the start of sales, individual $5 gold coins will be priced at $519.30 for uncirculated and $529.30 for proofs. The two coin proof sets will be priced at $579.30. These prices are based on an average market price of gold in the range of $1,750 to $1,799.99.

Outlook

It will be interesting to see how sales for this commemorative program fare. I expect that sales will run ahead of last year’s programs for a few reasons, although precious metals prices will have an unknown impact.

First, there are a smaller number of competing offerings from the US Mint, and in particular a smaller number of commemorative coin offerings. Last year collectors were presented with the largest number of different commemorative coins since 1997. The two programs included two gold coins, two silver dollars, and a half dollar (not to mention a commemorative silver medal). Other numismatic product offerings were also expansive, with the addition of eight different five ounce silver coins, a special Silver Eagle Set, and the return of the collectible uncirculated “W”  mint marked Gold and Silver Eagles. This year’s schedule should ultimately prove to be lighter, allowing commemorative offerings to hold more prominence.

Second, the US Mint has resumed the offering of a multi-coin set. Additional packaging options usually seem to add to overall sales. The US Mint also included the “Star Spangled Banner Bicentennial Silver Dollar Set” within a pricing notification. Presumably, this product will be released later, again adding to overall sales.

Pricing may also play a factor in sales. The prices for the silver dollars are set $5 lower than the prior year coins and these prices were established in early February when the market price of silver was lower. This could help sales as collectors see a relative bargain. On many occasions, the sales levels for fixed price silver products have jumped when the market price of silver has risen.

On the other hand, a rise in precious metals prices could cut into sales of the gold coins. The general trend has been for lower gold product sales as prices have moved higher.  Many collectors will be closely watching sales of the Star Spangled Banner $5 Gold Coins to see if the numbers eventually come in above or below the historically low mintages seen for the 2011 commemorative gold coins.

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Comments

  1. simon says

    I like the dollar coins in both proof and uncirc. I have a feeling that this years sales will be higher – prices are lower and the economy is picking up. Thanks for bringing us back to US coins.

  2. Jake says

    If you are going to buy the gold coin, wait until Wednesday. It will be cheaper on that day.

  3. says

    I pretty much agree with your analysis, Michael. The silver coins are both cheap and attractive to look at. This is usually a recipe for high sales. I think we will see sales of the silver SSB coins really take off. An eventual sellout might even be possible, though perhaps I’m being too optimistic in regards to that.

    As for the $5 gold coins, though, I think sales will be relatively slow. The gold coins aren’t quite as pretty to look at as the silver dollars (just my opinion), and $500+ is a fairly steep price tag. Additionally, there has been great volatility in metals prices this year. I think we will probably see sales around what we saw for the army and MoH gold commemoratives, perhaps a touch slower, with some “surge” buying as the price of gold waxes and wanes.

  4. fosnock says

    The coins are not atractive enough to intice me to buy however the “Star Spangled Banner Bicentennial Silver Dollar Set” has me intrigued.

  5. Broooster says

    Jake, thats what I was trying to say the other day, if gold stays low, we should get a price drop on Weds, then the buying will begin, IMHO. Why buy Monday when you can wait 2 days and maybe get a small price break?? Every little bit helps in the long run.

  6. Broooster says

    Also, for those that missed out on the UHR Dragon, Downies has them for $110, plus $8 for shipping. So, it’s actually a little cheaper than ordering straight from the Perth Mint.

  7. vaughnster says

    Joel Iskowitz should be named the next Chief Engraver of the Mint. He gets it and his designs prove it. I agree with Captain, the silver coins are nicer to look at than the gold ones. I will be ordering several silver dollar coins and will pass on the gold.

  8. says

    Fosnock,

    I’m expecting the Bicentennial Silver Dollar Set to be a two coin set with both the proof and uncirculated varieties in fancy packaging, similar to the infantry DoF set except with two coins.

    Did people notice this week’s US Mint sales report on Coin Update? The DoF sets are already about halfway to a sellout.

  9. says

    Vaughnster,

    I absolutely agree. If I had a vote, he would be my first choice. His design work is the best across time for recent modern coins. I would love it if he did a complete overhaul our circulating coinage.

  10. Wylson says

    Boy another dragon….

    Oh my God we are finally back on topic. The silver dollar design is one of the better to grace a commerative silver dollar in quite a while.

    Gold’s okay, but I would put it with the army commerative gold from last year, good but not great.

  11. Shutter says

    Did people notice this week’s US Mint sales report on Coin Update? The DoF sets are already about halfway to a sellout.

    I did notice, but don’t count on it just yet. If it hasn’t shipped, it’s not sold yet. With expected ship date in May (or is it now June?), some orders could be cancelled. I could totally see some dealers putting in large orders on DOF set just in case the coins sell well or silver skyrockets, if not the order can be cancelled painlessly.

  12. Alan says

    I agree the SSB dollar design is one I wouldn’t feel weird about showing to my non-coin collecting friends. Intro pricing for two commemorative series at the same time might help sales of both.

    I wonder if the SSB dollar will be a sell out before the end of the year. Will be interesting to track demand.

  13. Sam says

    US MInt Rant

    Ok, so what is wrong with the Mint, why can’t they get their act together and provide a schedule and produce the dollar coins for collectors? Seriously, this should be embarrassing to the Mint.

    I ordered some silver coins from the Canadian Mint on Monday, the were delivered today! Took them four days for an international shipment — I have never received coins this fast from the US Mint

    Let’s see how fast the Perth mint is, placed an order on Thursday …

  14. Samuel says

    Sam,
    Talking about RCM, I ordered some polar bear a month ago, right, a month ago, not any info yet. their system has no status no nothing. after bough from several mints, USMINT seems the best.

  15. Wes says

    Don’t know why these coins aren’t done in pure silver like the 9/11 Medal. Still like the SSB proof. I won’t buy a Gold coin that is only 90 percent Gold.

  16. Sam says

    Samuel

    You should call the RCM, something is wrong, I ordered three polar bears on Monday and received them today — perhaps its faster with a phone order or a problem with your credit card

    curious

  17. pl.mark says

    The SSB silver dollar special set will not include two silver dollars because its price was announced in the federal register as being $53.95. This price was announced at the same time that prices for the Infantry silver dollar coin program were reduced. The mint would not offer two silver dollars for such a low price. Recently, Numismatic News [01/25/2012] had an article about a medal awarded to Col. Croghan for his service in the War of 1812. Checking ebay later, I found that there were numerous medals awarded for service in the war. The mint made bronze duplicates for sale available to the public and sold these for quite a long time until interest in them declined. However, if the mint still has the dies available, it is quite possible that the mint’s historian will choose one of these medals, probably the one most significant to the Battle for Baltimore, for inclusion in this set. With an uncirculated silver dollar at $44.95 and a bronze medal at $7.95, this falls into the target price of $53.95 which the mint has established for this set.

  18. says

    Wes,
    The reason the commemorative coins are not pure good and silver is because they are made like our old circulating silver dollars (like Morgan & Peace dollars….90% silver, 10% copper) and gold coins (like $5 Indian Head or $20 Saint Gaudens…90% gold, 10 copper).

    If you want .999 silver and gold, buy the silver eagles or ATB 5 oz, or the buffalo or First Spouse gold coins.

  19. Jon in CT says

    Wow! That was some great sleuthing, pl.mark. Your hypothesis is extremely plausible (and, I hope, will prove to be true). That combo would be a very interesting collectible

  20. Shutter says

    Samuel,

    Definitely call RCM about Polar Bears. Apparently a bunch of US orders are in some sort of order system limbo. I had to do that last week. Supposedly they will be delivered on Monday, but someone else I know called them yesterday and was told that the first batch has all been shipped out and he won’t get them until April.

    BTW, unlike Perth, RCM ignores all emails, so call.

  21. Shutter says

    Sam,

    RCM isn’t exactly international shipments. Mine get shipped from Watertown, NY. Check your Fedex tracking. Weirdly, RCM email has USPS link with no tracking number even though shipped by Fedex. At least US Mint (or PBGS) mastered the complicated art of providing correct tracking number in an email.

    Also you can’t blame the US Mint for all of its problems. They are hobbled by 535 imbeciles (or elected representatives) and the Treasury Dept, which is currently run by a guy who is either a tax cheat, or a computer illiterate, or (more than likely) both. I’m sure the mint has plenty of decent folks working for it that just shake their heads when another insane edict comes from those masters.

  22. G says

    RCM had an order I placed that I didn’t receive for the Canadian canoe 20$ coins. After a month, I called and said I never received it, and they looked it up and said “Sorry- we didn’t have all your info” and I received the coins 4 days later. So: call them.

  23. Hidalgo says

    I have been searching for a website that has a list of U.S. Mint’s special sets featuring commemorative coins. Is there such a list? If so, I cannot seem to find one. Can anyone help?

  24. vaughnster says

    It doesn’t affect me because I’ve already purchased all 5 2011 P ATB’s but suspending sales for two weeks while going about the procedure for raising prices is just adsurd. Why wouldn’t they keep selling them at $204.95 while at the same time submitting price increases on the federal register? I’m sure they’ll still make money at that price. That’s two weeks of lost sales they may never recoup. I just don’t get it.

  25. Louis says

    Hidalgo,
    Note sure about online, but they are in the Red Book, as well as the Coin World Almanac, or the Red Book on Commemorative Coins.

  26. Louis says

    My pleasure, Hidalgo, and by the way, I just read that the new Red Book debuts on 3/22 at the Whitman show in Baltimore, though you can get it from Amazon and elsewhere a little cheaper.

  27. pl.mark says

    About that SSB special set…

    The mint has sent out the mailing for the SSB coins. There is no pic of the special set, just a description. The set will only contain a proof silver dollar and some historical paperwork/artwork relating to Francis Scott Key. The set will also contain a written copy of the national anthem. The item number will be SS6. This will probably be in the format of the previous coin and chronicles sets. Once you get your copy of the brochure in the mail you will be able to get the full written description of the set.

  28. says

    Speaking of mailers/advertisements, the Mint sent me an ad for the infantry commemoratives not too long ago. The DoF set had the old, incorrect picture depicting the uncirculated variety as the coin in the set, rather than the proof.

  29. John C says

    Thanks for the tip Broooster, I never ordered from Downies before, but I placed an order and got confirmation with shipping in 3 to 4 weeks. It seems a bit on the long side to me, but if I get the coin I will be happy.

  30. Schalk says

    John C,

    Downies is one of the most prestigious companies in Australia. You WILL get your coin.

  31. Schalk says

    John C,

    The way Downies operates: Although it is an Australian company, it takes orders from the USA, combine them over a period of time, then export all the ordered coins from Australia to the USA. The coins are then distributed from California as local. Therefore, no international shipping fees, exchange rates on credit cards and no customs to worry about. Take note: Downies do not send signature required if the order is below $500.00, it will just be delivered to your door, most likely, by UPS. Downies has a US toll free number if you have problems, just check their webpage.

  32. John C says

    Schalk,

    Thanks for the heads up on the shipping, my order was under 500 so I will have to keep an eye out for the coin. Hopefully I will get some tracking info.

  33. Schalk says

    John C

    No tracking from Downies, you will have to call their toll-free number to obtain a tracking number, but, as I said before, do not worry, this company does everything they promise to do – and in turn they will give you points towards free coins in the future. I have ordered from them for years now and they have never disappointed me – you will be surprised when you call them on their helpfulness.

  34. Jeremy says

    I was curious about what everyone’s/anyone’s thoughts were on the high relief silver and gold coins featuring the queen on both the obverse and reverse. Michael Alexander has posted a story about it on coinupdate.com. Here’s the link: http://news.coinupdate.com/royal-canadian-mint-queen-elizabeth-ii-high-relief-gold-and-silver-coins-1249/

    For anyone that would like to respond feel free to post it on the remarks section of that particular article if you prefer. I can view it there 🙂

  35. Samuel says

    Schalk, John, Let me share my experience with Downies. The first one, I ordered some coins from them, during last Christmas time frame, then I found a much cheaper source and tried to cancel the order, had to wait until Jan 3 when they began to work. I called the toll free number, it was automatically transferred to Aus, the gentleman told me, he couldn’t find my order in the system. I dont know how they operate the ordering, but this was really to my surprise. So, I also sent an email to make sure the order would be cancelled. Second, not long ago, I ordered about $300 coins. Days later, I received an email from their representative, asking for copy of my passport or drivers license to make sure I am the person who place the order etc. I feel weird. So, I just ignore the request and want to see what going to happen.

  36. Samuel says

    Schalk, you said “in turn they will give you points towards free coins in the future.”— How they remember you? They don’t even have “My Account” kind of stuff.

  37. Hidalgo says

    Does anyone know specifically what is included in Perth Mint’s “2012 Year of the Dragon Ten-Coin Set” ?

    And what is its cost?

  38. Hidalgo says

    @Shutter. Thanks. I’ll have to pass on the set. At that cost, I can buy other things that will meet my basic/essential needs (food, utilities, etc.).

  39. Hidalgo says

    @Jeremy – the high relief gold and silver coins likely will have sentimental value for those who adore Britain’s queen. Both coins are quite detailed. However, I personally will pass on adding either coin to my collection.

  40. Hidalgo says

    @Jeremy – the high relief gold and silver coins likely will have sentimental value for those who adore Britain’s queen. Both coins are quite detailed. However, I personally will pass on adding either coin to my collection.

  41. tbrokmeier says

    Here’s a novel idea… how about people actually sticking to the topic at hand instead of going on and on about all these non-related subjects!!!

  42. ClevelandRocks says

    I think the 2000 Aussie silver dragons look cooler than these new HR dragons.
    I think all are somewhat faddy, and do not compare with our classic Eagles.
    On topic, I may pick up the Silver SSB for its superior design.
    Joel Iskowitz is an artistic genius.

  43. Robertson says

    In the spirit of tbrokmeier’s suggestion, I think both designs are very attractive. Unlike the majority who have stated a preference for the silver coin, I actually prefer the gold design overall mainly because I have grown tired of seeing the same old, tiresome symbols regurgitated in our modern coinage. Besides portraying past presidents, all of whom have been sufficiently honored in so many ways, we seem to be addicted to new versions of the same, tired old images of draped figures of Liberty, Old Glory, eagles, cannons, and the like.

    Enough is enough. We have all the old classic designs of the early 20th century… great, I love them, too. But let’s put them to rest like Elvis and focus on the 21st century with new coin designs that depict new American symbolism that reflect themes of America today.

    From an artistic perspective, the classic figural designs of the past are stunning, but they were created by artists whose work generally embodied an ideal of the “American Renaissance” AT THAT TIME… not now. Let’s allow new artistic styles to flourish that reflect more contemporary artistic standards.

    We’re not building Queen Anne and Victorian homes anymore… so why should we expect the Mint to produce the same designs of yesteryear? I say, redesign all coins that currently feature a remake of an old design, including the hobby’s beloved silver eagle. (Besides, A.A. Weinman’s is not completely an American original … it’s heavily borrowed from French medalist Oscar Roty’s iconic Sower design of 1897.)

  44. Wes says

    Steve,

    That makes sense, as for the other coins you mentioned I do buy most Silver coins but Gold is to expensive for now, at these prices I will pass or buy Platinum Eagles. The Gold commemorative contains 10 percent alloy. My guess is that is a combination of Silver, and Copper?

  45. Starter Set says

    I get the impression there’s no Perth community anywhere on the Internet. I get that conversations can segue into sidebars, but it’s totally diff to just jump on an article about a commemorative coin and shout “who likes the new dragon coin?” or something. There’s no other websites, people have to abruptly distrust on topic discussions?

    I don’t feel it’s fair on topic discussions are getting drowned out by sidebars that are not related. Australia and dragons have nothing to do w/ a commemorative coin that celebrates American patriotism.

  46. G says

    Starter- I think the one element that people are missing is that these dragons and spangled coins do have a lot in common: release dates. Since many of the posters in here buy from the US Mint and other mints, new releases tend to come up in the excitement- since this is a post about a new mint release, it makes sense that people would bring up other mint releases too. Just like the ASE and the ATBs- when something cool comes out, people talk- the SSB coin celebrates patriotism, but since the Aussies were colonies as well, it seems right to bring them in the fold as well :). Who’s waiting to see if the price goes down Wednesday?

  47. Michael in Bama says

    I will be waiting for the next price adjustment before purchasing the SSB gold in any form since the spot is now below $1700. What are they thinking at the mint? Are they defending against other mints using their own release schedule against them? I too am waiting on the Native American $1, LOVE the design!

  48. Shutter says

    Since many of the posters in here buy from the US Mint and other mints, new releases tend to come up in the excitement- since this is a post about a new mint release

    Also there is only so much to say about the SSB release. Yes, we all like the silver $ design. Yes, most of us want to see if gold $5 drops on Wednesday before committing to it. Now, if only half of us really hated the design of the silver $, that could generate some truly pointless, but ultimately on-topic discussions.

    Speaking only for myself, I’d rather have a discussion veering way off from the original post, than just sit around and watch the tumbleweeds roll by (as in coin network).

  49. DCDave says

    Right on Starter Set.

    The SSB celebrates the USA winning over the ancester of the “old lady queen!”.

    The British Empire dragon circus coinage is really just a trojan horse to get the “old lady queen” effigy that is plastered on ALL obverse dragons in your collector box.

    God bless America, no British Empire “old lady queen” dragon coins for me.

    Oh say can you see…

  50. says

    For folks complaining about the dragons, this tends to happen with pretty much every big coin release. When the 25th anniversary set came out, it was all A25 all the time. I’ve tried to refrain from commenting too much in this post to avoid annoying people about the topic, but if it makes anyone feel better, the chatter will probably die down some after the ANDA release.

    There’s also the additional problem of the Mint not giving us much to talk about. Their schedule is still a mess! 🙂

  51. Broooster says

    I think I will wait until Wed to order the SSB coins from the Mint. I was just looking over the price grid, I stand to save at least 24 bucks by waiting 2 days, thats for a 1 tier drop. Like I said before, wait 2 days, save some money.

  52. G says

    Cap- is the ANDA coin on sale today/ can’t see it on the mint. Also- the SSB two coin set is a nickel more than if you buy each proof separately. What a deal!

  53. says

    G,

    All we know so far is “March 6” in Australia time, so sometime between 11 am EST today and 11 am EST tomorrow. Perth has not clarified the time it will go up and may simply choose not to, in order to prevent a run on their website. I have been checking all day. My best guess is we see it sometime this evening.

    Sorry I could not provide more clarity.

  54. says

    As for the SSB sales, my group ended up buying three proofs, two uncirculateds, and will wait for a gold price drop before buying the gold coins or the two-coin proof set.

  55. Shutter says

    All we know so far is “March 6″

    The reason for that is that March 5th (First Monday in March) is a legal holiday in Western Australia.

  56. Dolores says

    Off-Topic – I enjoy reading whatever is discussed regarding coins. Sorry to those that feel inconvenienced … posters might consider just saying “off-topic” at the beginning of your message when your comment is off topic. I’ve learned a bit regarding the Dragon coin, I was not familiar with “Downies” – I ordered, I hope I get it ok. Thanks to a few of the posters I’ve picked up pieces of info. Thank you.

  57. Hidalgo says

    I may missed it, but am curious if anyone has an update about the following item listed on the Federal Register:

    Star-Spangled Banner Bicentennial Silver Dollar Set N/A 53.95

    Will this set have the proof or uncirculated dollar?

  58. Hidalgo says

    @Dolores – I agree with your comments. I enjoy reading about coins because I like to collect them. I am uncertain why one (maybe two) bloggers insist that we stay on topic. The fact that we can talk off topic makes Michael’s blog more interesting to me!

  59. Jus-a-coin-luvr says

    I read these comments quite often and am glad for the info/advice that you folks share here. I do have a question since I’ve never collected any Gold pieces from the Mint. I see that several people are “waiting until Wed” in hopes that the prices for the SSB Gold coins will go down. Do we have any definite information about that possibility or is that a “wish”? I ordered the SSB Silver versions today and am also holding off on the Gold version to see if you folks have some sort of “crystal ball” thing going here.

  60. says

    I went ahead and ordered this morning 1 of the SSB sets (gold and silver), 1 of the proof SSB and 1 uncirculated SSB. No problem getting my order in. If the price drops I will order another of the sets.

    For Hidalgo: the SSB set has a silver proof.

    I enjoy reading all of the comments and am learning new things from the posters although I have been collecting more than 25 years.

  61. says

    Sorry Hildago I misread your question—I don’t have any information on the SSB Bicentennial Silver Dollar Set. Since it was not on the list of SSB today I thought it was probably dropped.

    I am also awaiting news on the $1 Native American Coin. I think the design for 2012 is GREAT!

  62. Wes says

    Hidalgo, I think you are referring to the set that was mentioned earlier by pl.mark says:
    March 3, 2012 at 9:05 pm

    About that SSB special set…

    The mint has sent out the mailing for the SSB coins. There is no pic of the special set, just a description. The set will only contain a proof silver dollar and some historical paperwork/artwork relating to Francis Scott Key. The set will also contain a written copy of the national anthem. The item number will be SS6. This will probably be in the format of the previous coin and chronicles sets. Once you get your copy of the brochure in the mail you will be able to get the full written description of the set.

  63. Dolores says

    I went ahead and ordered my SSBs – I will be giving these to young people I care about as Graduation and Christmas gifts. I just want to be sure to get them, and 49.95 for the proof seems ok. One thing I didn’t see was the % of silver in the silver SSB coin – I believe the commeratives are 90%, is that correct? Can’t wait to get them.

  64. Hidalgo says

    @Wes – Thanks! I only need one proof coin, so I’ll buy the special set rather than the individual coin.

  65. says

    I like the SSB coins enough I’ll buy a proof, uncirculated, and the special silver set. I’m not yet sure whether I can afford the gold coins though. I suspect people here have a good idea of what I’ve been buying this month. 😉

  66. TomP says

    Updates to the Mint’s scheduled products listing:

    2012 Am. gold buffalo proof 3/15
    2012 ASE silver proof 4/12
    2012 AGE gold proof 4/19

  67. Louis says

    It’s interesting that the Buffalo is going on sale in 10 days. I suspect they will keep selling 2011’s at the same time as the new one.

    On Canadian coins, If you are interested in the gorgeous Full Wolf’s Moon silver and niobium coins, act fast, as the Canadian mint sold out in record time. You can still get it from the Canadian Post Office with free shipping. These are really nice coins. The post office there is really efficient in my experience.

  68. DCDave says

    No need to buy from the Mint when you can buy cheap on

    Alibaba.com

    type in “silver coin us” or “unique gold coin”

    in Alibaba.com search engine and get some genuine US precious metal coins from China…

  69. Jon in CT says

    Perhaps people who’ve ordered SSBs could chime back in after receiving their orders about whether they received the phased-out blue packaging or the new black packaging.

  70. Tim says

    Louis, Thanks for the info on the Full Wolf’s Moon. Just ordered it, wow those things went fassssssttttt. Got it as you said from their Post Office.

  71. Louis says

    I think the gold coin is much nicer than many folks here think it is. The two coins complement each other nicely. The actual coin as shown in the Mint’s brochures is nicer than the mock-up pics. Let’s hope prices get cut on Wed.

  72. Louis says

    Tim, my pleasure. Good move. This issue sold out much faster than the previous ones in the series. I could use one of those four coin holders the Canadian Mint made, but to get it one had to subscribe to the series. Maybe someone on e-Bay has them.

  73. says

    Louis,

    I don’t think the gold coin is bad at all! But if you asked me which I preferred I would definitely say the silver coin. The gold coin is like the army commemorative from last year – a good, solid design, but not what I regard as a “home run” like the gold MoH or the silver SSB or some of those other designs Michael posted a few days back.

  74. simon says

    In case anyone has not read about the SS6 (The SSB silver dollar set) the description is as follows:

    The USM will be offering a limited edition collectible set. It will contain a proof 2012 SSB silver dollar, a reproduction of one of Francis Scott Key’s original manuscripts of his poem “The Star-Spangled Banner,” the lyrics to “The Star-Spangled Banner,” a historical narrative about the origin of the poem, and a period-appropriate, original artwork. Only 50k will be available.

  75. says

    Out of curiosity, is anyone here planning on purchasing ALL the possible variants of the SSB products? In other words, all four “standard” releases of the SSB coins plus the two special sets?

  76. G says

    Louis- Just ordered a wolf coin, too- thanks for that! I almost got the other ones from talisman, but I wasn’t totally sold… but the wolf design is amazing. In other news- I see the ANDA dragon is available, but it’s already going for over 600$. Oh well…

  77. Wes says

    Perth Mint sold all of the Dragons at the coin show . None will be made available on their website.

  78. Wes says

    600 is to much for me. I can think of better places to spend that money. I would rather have the SSB 5 Dollar Gold coin.

  79. Samuel says

    i have an idea, next year ANDA show, we donate money to send one guy to the show just to but up all the coins. it is much much cheaper.

  80. simon says

    If you are a long term collector, I would definitely not spend $600 on a non-US coin – be very careful of the hype. Dealers may do it to unsuspecting customers with first releases. Within a year the prices will very likely settle to bullion value. Even the $100+ price tag for a 1 Oz dragon widget is seriously overpriced unless you are rich and willing to spend to have a personal copy.

  81. KEITHSTER says

    VA BOB-Went in 11:15 Central Time got 4 unc’s in and out in around a minute.In stock now in stock and reserved. Hope to get all 4 in blue but who knows maybe they will send two of each. We will see how they ship them bet it will be soon as they get the money. So no slow down there sounds like a lot are waiting for the gold to drop or the funds to come up. Good luck to all looks like another HAPPY NEW MINT YEAR

  82. Jeremy says

    @G, Wow, I’d find it really difficult to justify spending $600 on any piece of silver including the 1995 W silver eagle! 😉

  83. G says

    Yeah- it’s a lot but I have yet to buy a dragon coin that went down in value. I can see these hitting 1000 in a week and thinking “shucks” 🙂

  84. Rolling Thunder says

    I believe the ANDA 2 OZ dragon is exactly the same coin as the 2 OZ colored bullion coin that was recently released. The only difference is with ANDA you get a numbered COA and a fancy box. I would have liked an ANDA at release price (~$180.) But $600. or more is way out of line – if you like the coin buy a 2 OZ bullion colored version for under $200 – don’t buy the coa & box for $400. more unless you think you can make a fast flip.

    Now that this is OVER -an SSB proof dollar & gold set for me after prices drop mid-week

  85. tbrokmeier says

    For all those who like to clutter Michael’s blog with all this non-related garbage, why not start your own blog elsewhere were you can talk about this other garbage till your hearts content?? The ONLY thing you are doing here is commandeering this blog for your own selfish purposes and making it less and less something that a person wants to read!!

    I sure hope Michael is hearing this comment loud and clear……

  86. Jeremy says

    @tbrokmeier, Below is a post from Dolores. I may be alone, but besides feeling obligated or the necessity to annotate the subject matter of individual comments, I agree with it entirely. This blog provides access to knowledgeable individuals. The comment section expands the topics and may even provide ideas for future blog posts. Through this discussion we can determine whether or not YOU may be in the minority and if it is an issue I’m sure Michael is more than capable of addressing it.

    Thank you

    “Off-Topic – I enjoy reading whatever is discussed regarding coins. Sorry to those that feel inconvenienced … posters might consider just saying “off-topic” at the beginning of your message when your comment is off topic. I’ve learned a bit regarding the Dragon coin, I was not familiar with “Downies” – I ordered, I hope I get it ok. Thanks to a few of the posters I’ve picked up pieces of info. Thank you.”

  87. ClevelandRocks says

    Tbrokmeier,
    I agree with your comments.
    Enough with the dragons (with the old British queen) hijacking the patriotic topic on hand.

  88. G says

    Furthermore- the person complaining has two total posts, both complaining about others. How about adding info instead of complaining? All of us are interested in the SSB and other world mints as well

  89. DCDave says

    @G, Don’t you think the dragon stuff is getting a bit out of hand at this point?
    Don’t recognize most of the dragon posters…I assume you dragon groupies are not trying to drum up dragon sales on your ebay auctions…

    Cleveland, Vaughnster, Hidalgo, CaptainOverkill and VABob (usually) seem more on topic (SSB) than most of these “new” posters…

  90. Rolling Thunder says

    @tbrokmeier – you’re right about one thing – it is Michael’s blog and I suspect he is very capable of determining what is garbage and what is not.

    “Selfish” is wanting eveything for yourself – like restricting comments only to those things that interest you. Honestly there are many comments (on topic & off) that don’t interest me – it is easy after a few words to know what a post is about & decide if you want to read it or fast forward to the next comment.

    I think a blog is about a free exchange of information – similar to freedom of speech being about an exchange of ideas – we don’t have to agree with the ideas but hopefully us American “patriots” agree with the individual right to express them

  91. G says

    DC- I think since it’s literally the release day of a very scarce issue, that people in here are interested in purchasing from a world mint, that it’s relevant info. Cleveland is always a good poster and I can respect not wanting world mint coins, but it is the year of the dragon, and they are some of the most interesting releases of the year. Can we help it if the Perth Mint comes up with a new scarce issue every month 🙂 But seriously, I think the topic SSB started the thread, and then as the day went on, the time sensitive rare dragon was talked about, and there is room for everybody in here- I don’t see it as a problem- how many times can people say they are waiting til Wednesday (like me) to see if the SSB prices drop. The liveliest discussions usually have to do with the most interest- like today- the SSB and the 2 oz dragon both came out. I don’t think people need to post a justification for what they are posting (that truly is a boring sidebar). I think the keys are: respect, relevance, and (no) repetition. It’s Michael’s blog- and I can attest to those being the 3 keys. For those curious, I decided against the 2 oz (powercoin has 4 left). For everybody else- I wonder what the ‘original art’ in the commemorative 2 coin SSB set will be? It’s certainly not in the photo on the website. cheers all! 🙂

  92. G says

    By the way- who else feels let down by the dangling increasing mintage of the 2011 Buffalo proof?

  93. Jeremy says

    I just want to make a few points and this will conclude my thoughts on the matter. First for those wanting the comments posted here to be strictly related to the SSB coins are encouraging others to find alternative sites to discuss “coin related” topics. Does this seem fair to Michael, however, I don’t know his thoughts on the matter so it may not bother him but that is the reality of it. Secondly, I’m not a huge fan of attempted censorship just because others aren’t interested. This type of behavior restricts creativity and ideas.

    @DCDave, I’m not sure exactly who you’re referring to as “new” posters but some of us have been around for awhile. Furthermore, you do have a point which I haven’t thought of regarding ebay sales. Perhaps there are some with ulterior motives, who knows. However, that’s just conjecture and allegation but if that is the case this certainly is not the place to attempt to “advertise”.

    @ClevelandRocks, I find it ridiculous to suggest that everyone must express some sort of patriotism and to limit communication based on a design stamped on a coin. Patriotism to me includes free flowing discussions so long as it adheres to the appropriate subject matter, in this case COINS!

  94. DCDave says

    Mildly off topic,
    Would be a stitch to see the silver 5ozers and w-ASEs come back with the same pricing AND even funnier if this happens and PMs shoot back up again. That’s what happens when there is no silver grid.
    Someone posted about not having the $1 coins in the 2012 sets, now that would be interesting…

    Think it’s time to kill the ’11 Buffs too…
    Think it’s time to kill the 2011 annual sets also
    Makes you feel like a chump buying things when released when they never go away (IMHO)

  95. DCDave says

    @Jeremy, just “conjecture” here, but I’m reading Cleveland as pointing out the irony of the SSB coin topic, celebrating our victory over the British in the War of 1812, but our thread has more posts about this same British Empire’s coin (you know, the old lady queen on the front issue). So in this particular case it may not be about censorship as much as irony, and a little bit of patriotism.

  96. Jeremy says

    @DCDave, I hadn’t consider it that way. However, it seems that many would prefer that these coins displayed other designs on the obverse. Therefore, I don’t think I would view it as unpatriotic so much as an interest in a variety of coins. Given how popular that image is with so many mints around the globe its difficult to avoid. I find it laughable, not necessarily funny as to the irony of it though. I appreciate you pointing that out! 🙂

  97. says

    DCDave,

    With the continuing dip in silver prices I do think it will not be long before the silver products are reintroduced at no change. I find it extremely unlikely that anyone will buy the 2011 silver products at a price increase after a major drop from silver like this.

    For folks upset about ANDA, don’t be. I had a brief conversation with Bullion Baron a couple of days ago where he explained (assuming I understood correctly) that there is no apparent difference between the 2 oz ANDA coin and the regular variety of colored two ounce dragon excepting the ANDA packaging. Eventually “the community” at large is going to figure out that the maximum mintage of the 2 oz colored coins is 41,000 and not 1,000, at which point the values of the ANDA coin will collapse.

    tbrokmeier,

    I’ve already done so, and write about the dragons regularly. Furthermore, Michael has done large posts on the site about World Coins so I imagine he has at least some interest in the topic himself. If he really thinks we’re getting too far off topic we will certainly hear from him about it and that will be the end of it.

    Furthermore as I said above, I expect the comments about the dragons to die down now that sales of the ANDA coin have ended. This kind of excitement happens with every “big” release.

  98. Louis says

    You can get the same coin without the ANDA packaging for about $130 on e-Bay for those who must have a 2 oz color dragon. Hope the dragon police are not up!

  99. Shutter says

    celebrating our victory over the British in the War of 1812
    Would you guys feel better if the off-topic comments focused on the Canadian war of 1812 coins instead of a handful of dragon coins?

  100. G says

    Cap and Louis- seriously- the 2 oz coin is the same?? Lol. Glad I didn’t get one. How can they charge more at power coin?? Also- did u hear they are minting 200,000 more dragon coins with privy marks- like a way around the 300,000 mintage. That’s like the 2010 Gold W that… Err… The fractional proof buffalos this year that…. Umm… ATB 5 oz coins that… Uh… The silver pricing that…. Hmmm…. I’m starting to feel like the dragons like I did about the silver proof sets from the 2010 ATBs- and like i do about the 2011 buffalo proofs- enough! Stop torturing us! Take them off the site already! Stop taunting us

  101. Louis says

    G- I don’t know but they may keep selling them along with the new Buffaloes, the way they do with proof sets. Or maybe they go off sale soon………..making them the second lowest mintage in the series.

  102. Shutter says

    Louis,

    The Canadian 1812 coins look nice (on computer), but I have two problems with them. First, the gold plated coin is only available as part of a set of unrelated coins. Second, what’s with the weird sizes for PM coins with no rhyme or reason. Two different $1 coins: 23.17g and 7g.

    Incidentally, for all of those misty-eyed patriots waxing nostalgically about war of 1812, Mr. Madison’s war was about the dumbest war US ever entered. IT was completely pointless, but the government compensated for that by being completely unprepared for it.

  103. says

    CO, speaking of mintages of the dragons…from what I understand, the black dragon from the Berlin World Money Fair is also included in the 20,000 9 coin set released for China as well as the 2,500 in the April release of the 10 coin dragon set…so it actually has a mintage of 27,500.
    Perth does this quite often…on the COA for the World Money Fair black dragon it states “Only 5,000 coins will be RELEASED in the special Coin Show packaging”….they never mention “mintage”.

  104. Nate says

    On SSB – a two-tier price reduction would be a nice surprise on the gold. I only bought the silver proof so far. I would’ve bought it in the special packaged set had it been available this week but now I’m not sure I’ll get a second proof by buying it later.

    On dragons –
    Steve, it sounds like you have the Berlin dragon in hand. Did you order from the Mint? I ordered from Talisman both the Berlin dragon and Red Welsh and have received no coins and no updates!

    Did anyone else order from Talisman or experience ordering from them in the past?

    In other news, my new favorite dragon design may be the design from the tiny African country of Benin. Only a mintage of 888 too! Coming from such a random country I question the long-term collector appeal and coin quality but the design is great IMO.

  105. says

    Nate…I got one from Perth and one from Talisman.
    My order from Talisman was for the Berlin dragon, Guilded dragon & the Red Welsh dragon. I placed the order on Feb. 3 and received the coins March 2.

  106. Nate says

    Steve, thanks for that info. I ordered on Feb. 3 as well so maybe mine will be arriving shortly! Their website doesn’t offer much in the way of order status updates. I’ve been watching my CC for the charge to hit as an indicator that my order is being fulfilled but so far I haven’t seen any activity. Were you able to find out that your coins were on the way or did they just ‘surprise’ you at your doorstep?

  107. Brad says

    Simon,

    Yeah, if we’re lucky we might get a TWO-tier price drop on gold coins this week.

  108. ClevelandRocks says

    Great time to buy PM items on the aftermarket (or from APMEX and such dealers) you were putting off. PMs were spooked when there was no mention of QE3, but PMs will rise again. The dollar printing press is still working.

    Yes, I was pointing out the irony of the 1812/SSB/British relationship with current coin discussions.

  109. says

    Steve,

    Good point, I’d forgotten about the Chinese dragons. One can take some comfort in that the Chinese dragons will be harder to acquire, and will likely remain in sets, which will probably help premiums for the individual black dragons some. The ten-coin colored set to be released next month is probably also going to contain a black dragon as well, though the mintage for these sets will be pretty low (2,500 if memory serves me correctly).

    Nate,

    My six man coin buying group ended up, for a variety of reasons, splitting our orders between Perth and Talisman. Everyone who ordered from Perth should have received their coins some time ago. As for Talisman, the results have varied. I received my Welshes from Talisman two weeks ago. Two other group members received their Welshes at the end of last week. The last guy who ordered the Welshes had his order ship Monday. Finally, the one guy in our group who ordered a black dragon from Talisman has not yet heard anything from them.

    My guess is that Talisman can be relied upon to ship your order – eventually – but it will take some time for them to do so. They may just be a small business with only a few employees. I would suggest contacting Talisman to see what the issue is if you are concerned over the delay.

    On the SSBs, I am beginning to hope for a two-tier price decrease as well. I am probably going to wait and see what happens with gold prices first before ordering unless we get a two-tier price drop next week.

  110. Nate says

    I also suspect that Talisman is a bit overwhelmed with orders. It must be a smallish operation and they’re having trouble getting orders out the door. This isn’t due to the berlin/red welsh dragon releases though. A friend placed an order with them a couple months back and that order took 3-4 weeks to ship. He also placed an order for the Canada $20 for $20 Polar Bears and is waiting on those now too.

    I emailed for an update but they’re probably too busy and maybe flooded with inquiries to answer. I also called in the morning last week but didn’t get an answer.

    Talisman is a reliable operation so I’m not worried about getting my order filled eventually.

  111. Brad says

    $1,683.75 or less is our target am price fix for gold tomorrow. I don’t think it will matter if the pm fix is back above $1,700 or not, since as long as it’s below $1,750 it will still agree directionally with the price change. The average still rules in that situation I believe.

  112. says

    Nate, Talisman will charge your cc a couple of days before they ship, but they will send you an email once they do ship.

    How many people are going to buy the SSB gold? Proof/Unc or 2 coin set?

  113. Nate says

    I’m interested in the Unc only if anything. These always have lower mintages than the proof versions. They are cheaper and with the kicker of a possible collector premium due to the lower mintage I think they are the better value. I’m not interested in the set because I prefer to have my coins in individual OGP in case I choose to sell or trade one or the other.

    I anticipate a one-tier move tomorrow but with gold trading below 1700/oz now I’m going to be waiting another week to see if we get a second downward re-repricing. For anyone interested in the gold commems I suggest waiting until gold prices stabilize. When gold starts to turn back up you’ll always have the chance to buy from the Mint before a Wednesday upward re-pricing occurs.

  114. G says

    The Mint is karmically destined to repriced the silver coins at exactly the price it pulled them on. I think they should get ride of the price grid personally- if the price of PM spikes above the Mint price- what’s the worst that happens, they sellout? I’d love to see the sales figures and @ what price they sold each coin at. What’s more profitable, selling 50,000 proof buffalos at 1700 when you paid 1200 for spot or selling 20,000 at 1850average? They should price it based on what they pay, make a profit, and then price the next issues higher if needed- they clearly don’t have the resources to keep repricing. And is it a bad thing for people to buy collectible coins below spot? If they’re worried about dealers cleaning them out and melting if it gets below, limit all purchases to 25 per household per mint run. Off topic- I got my Talisman red welshs last week. Also- anybody else get one of the crazy Mongolian long haired hedgehog coins? I ordered one about 6 weeks ago from powercoin, still no sight of it.

  115. Shutter says

    What’s more profitable, selling 50,000 proof buffalos at 1700 when you paid 1200 for spot or selling 20,000 at 1850average?

    The prices go up AND down. What if the Mint paid $1,900? Is it better to sell them at $1,700 or $1,850? However, I do agree that the grid is a bad idea. Daily or semi-daily adjustments would work better. But no grid! just announce mark-up for each coin type ($ or %) and stick with it.

  116. TheCoinKeeper says

    ATB 5 oz’ers and unc ’11 eagle are for sale at the mint again at same prices they were at before being pulled.

  117. coin collector says

    “Perhaps people who’ve ordered SSBs could chime back in after receiving their orders about whether they received the phased-out blue packaging or the new black packaging.”

    Jon, I just opened up my shipment from the Mint and the packaging for my SSB was black.

  118. mrbeeg says

    I got the proof and unc SSBs, as well as the proof Infantry yesterday. WORST QUALITY I’VE EVER SEEN. All three are going back. What the heck is going on at the Mint?

    The proof Infantry has an iridescent haze/scuff all around the mirror-like parts of the edges (maybe 1/8″ in from the rim) on BOTH sides. The Proof SSB has a big spot near the edge on one side, and the same iridescent haze near the edge on the other. The unc SSB has some very noticeable scratches right neat the rim on one side.

    Does anyone else see haze/scuffs near the edges of the proof coins? What is that???

    (FYI – Both proofs were in new black packaging, while the unc SSB is in the old blue packaging. The proof SSB clamshell box has a nice metal Treasury badge stuck on the black velour, but the proof Infantry clamshell does not have this badge. Again, WHY???)

  119. Phil says

    I just ordered 1 each of the unc gold and unc silver SSB coins. Will wait till the special collector set comes out to get the proof silver SSB.
    Just read all the comments on this topic. There were too many off-topic comments. The problem I see with them is that they tend to “hijack” the main topic, causing hanging threads, unanswered postings, etc., which are annoying to those who are trying to follow the main topic. I think a few off-topic comments are fine, but when there are too many of them, it becomes a problem. Let’s try to be polite to others and keep this in mind before posting off topic comments. Try to keep them under control and try not to post too many of them.

  120. Saucexx says

    I’m a little late to the party but oh well….

    Ordered the set which came in a black box, an unc gold which came in a black box, and the unc silver also in a black box. I like both designs and the unc seems like it might be the best investment of the bunch. Unfortunately the unc gold went back because of a wax(?) drop on the obverse and a scratch on the reverse. The unc gold I’ve ordered from the mint seems to have more problems than I’d expect. Last year I had to send an unc MOH back several times. The only other issue I had a problem with was the 5oz AtB Mt Hood. Man those things were brutal.

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