2013 Kennedy Half Dollar Bags and Rolls

Tomorrow, June 20, 2013 at 12:00 Noon ET, the United States Mint will begin sales of circulating quality 2013 Kennedy Half Dollars in bag and roll quantities. The half dollar denomination was last produced for distribution to circulation in 2001. For each subsequent year, the coins have only been minted in limited quantities and distributed to collectors within numismatic products.

2013 Kennedy Half Dollar

The available products options for the 2013 Kennedy Half Dollar will include a two roll set and a 200-coin bag. The two roll set includes one 20-coin roll from the Philadelphia Mint and one 20-coin roll from the Denver Mint, available at a price of $32.95 per set. The 200-coin bag contains 100 coins each from the Philadelphia and Denver Mints and is priced at $139.95 per bag. These prices are unchanged from the levels of the previous year.

The wrappers and canvas bags carry indications of the “P” and/or “D” mint mark along with the face value of the contents.

The US Mint has stated that these products will remain available for one year from the initial on-sale date or until inventory is depleted prior to the one year time frame.

Recent circulating coin production figures show that the Philadelphia and Denver Mint have struck 1.8 million circulating quality half dollars each for the year to date. This is amount is roughly in line with the mintages seen over the past five years of the series. Demand for circulating quality half dollars within numismatic products seems to have found a consistent base level of demand.

The Kennedy Half Dollar may see increased attention and demand next year, when the design reaches its 50th anniversary. The US Mint has conducted a survey to evaluate special sets which may potentially be issued in 2014. Such surveys have been the precursor to special sets or coins issued for the American Silver Eagle and American Gold Buffalo series.

The survey mentioned a wide range of potential 2014 Kennedy Half Dollar 50th Anniversary Sets under consideration. One possibility is a four coin set including reverse proof 90% silver half dollars with the “P”, “D”, “S”, and “W” mint marks. Another interesting possibility called for a three coin set including proof, reverse proof, and uncirculated 90% silver half dollars with different mint marks. Other possibilities called for two, three, or four coin sets with various combinations of clad and silver half dollars with varying finishes and mint marks.

Other News

gold-buffaloThe United States Mint has provided a release date of August 8, 2013 for the 2013-W Reverse Proof Gold Buffalo. This coin will be issued to celebrate the 100th anniversary of James Earle Fraser’s American Buffalo design.

The Mint has previously indicated that the reverse proof coin will be minted to demand. As with other numismatic gold products, the pricing will be determined based on the average market price of gold during the weekly period leading up to the release. Unless the Mint plans on adding another column to the pricing grid, it would seem that the price of the reverse proof coin will be the same as the standard proof, which was released on May 23.

In other developments, the US Mint has started posting weekly numismatic sales figures on their website. The information can be found in this section along with reorganized figures for other categories.

The figures provided are for cumulative sales, without an indication of the change from the prior week. I will continue to publish the regular weekly numismatic product sales report on Coin Update News, which calculates the weekly changes and provides relevant commentary and comparisons.

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  1. george glazener says

    As far as popularity goes, this year is the 50th anniversary of the assassination. That could make the 2013 issues sell faster. As we get closer to 22 November, we will see….

  2. Ikaika says

    Impossible for the average collector to purchase many of these new releases.

    $1,740.00 (Proof Gold Buffalo) $1,675.00 (Burnished Gold Eagle 1oz ) $139.95 (WP Silver Eagle Set) $179.95 (ATB 5oz) $179.95 (ATB 5oz) $179.95 (ATB 5oz) $179.95 (ATB 5oz) $179.95 (ATB 5oz) $1,740.00 (Reverse Proof Gold Buffalo) $870.00 (FS Gold Unc) $870.00 (FS Gold Unc) $870.00 (FS Gold Unc) $870.00 (FS Gold Unc) $870.00 (FS Gold Unc)

    Grand total for 2013 = About $10544.70 🙁

    Anyone trying to purchase all these coins? The Mint has made even more difficult wih their release schedule.

  3. says

    Definitely looking forward to the Mint doing a Kennedy anniversary set next year. This is my favorite “circulating” piece by far, even if it doesn’t strictly circulate anymore. I’m thinking of finally picking up a two hundred coin bag next year for the first time, too.

    I have to say that after looking at the mint’s figures on its website, I rather prefer Michael’s sales report write-ups. They seem a bit easier on the eyes and as he mentioned, they have weekly changes.

  4. thePhelps says

    Ikaika – your point is eactly why I don’t buy gold products. I am having a hard enough time with all the various silver releases. Proof silver Eagle – Burnished Eagle – WP and the 5 oz. Add in the proof sets and a couple of the commemoratives and my paycheck is getting pretty thin as it is…

  5. thePhelps says

    Steve – my later in the day due to be shipped the 24th set is still showing backordered.

    CO – I am also looking forward to a possible Kennedy Anniversay set… I hope they do it in silver or a combo with a silver as well as a clad offering. It would also be a good time to consider ending the half.

  6. wdg5 says

    @ikaika and @thePhelps,
    My exact sentiment with all these EXPENSIVE releases and timing.

    The s-ATB rolls, 5 OZ, RP-Buff, Kennedy rolls is all I have for this year. I might stretch it to include the pr- Buff just because of the 100 year anniv.

  7. Larry says

    The ship date for my West Point ASE set moved up from 7/25 to 7/11. Yay! I think the only things I will buy the rest of the year are the Reverse Proof Buff and maybe the Mount Rushmore 5 OZ. I am still debating whether to buy the “P” version or the bullion. Wish there was a way to see the actual coins before purchase. Anyone know a coin store in the Chicago area that stocks the 5 OZ coins?

  8. Dustyroads says

    What a great offering, I would love to see a low minting of a set of halves including an enhanced, all in 90% silver.

    So many great coins this year, the Mint has really done well with the buffalo pieces. It’s such a shame I can’t buy them all, actually just one would be more accurate! Oh well, will keep watching until the the creek floods or the dust boll begins again! Dang Atlantic’s fault!!

  9. says


    I agree on the expense related to these purchases. I basically just don’t buy any gold numismatic products except (sometimes) the gold commems. I had thought about buying a one ounce gold proof eagle or buffalo this year, with the price finally coming down, but then of course they went and jacked up premiums.

    Once you stop buying the gold products, the remainder becomes much more affordable.

  10. Rich says

    @ Ikaika – the ASE dollar sets seem to be popular drain on the wallet as well.., such as the Unc Dollar set and’12 MAH.., anything with an ASE or Comm and a dollar bill seems popular.

    I would like to make up a 3-coin ’13 Buff set using an ’06 AGE set case…key words – “would like to”

  11. Ikaika says

    @ Rich

    Your statement “would like to” applies to many us :). Back in the 70’s when I got into the coin hobby, my entire collection consisted of circulated coins found in change. My budget for buying coins was $0. Those were truly the Happy Days.

  12. Ikaika says

    @ Captain

    I agree with you. The gold and platinum products puts a big burden on peoples budget. The silver products are more realistic for the average collector. However, coins like the reverse proof gold eagle and the upcoming buffalo keeps us saying what Rich just stated: “Would like to”.

  13. im just a bill says

    simon says

    “The Kennedy set could have various formats : my 2c request

    Pr / RPr / En Unc / HR”

    I would love that, but I would also like to see a 5 oz silver replica too.
    Or maybe the first 10 oz h/r coin ever?!

  14. Zaz says

    Going to get a a roll or two of the halves. Has it really been fifty years this November?

    Re: the gold numismatic products, I wouldn’t get a proof Buffalo, AGE or platinum proof every year, but this year I’ll probably spring for three of the four offerings. I deliberately avoid the FS series. At $870/$895 per coin, that’s a lot of money for vanity coins that celebrate mediocrity: a woman who happened to marry the right politician. There’s only a few coins that’s well designed or the subject is worth commemorating in her own right. The height of congressional folly was including Alice Paul, only herstory buffs, the scholarly elite have ever heard of her. That said, I might spring for Eleanor in ’14, and Jackie in ’15.

  15. Ray says

    ooh, HR halfs would be sweet! as would a large 5oz or 10oz coin. probably dreaming w all this but, hey i’m american

  16. JustaKollector says

    I’m actually looking forward to the special Kennedy set next year. I would like to see a 3 coin set. All from the West Point Mint – Proof, Uncirculated & Reverse Proof Enhanced. Make them unique where you can only get the “W” from the special set.

    I would like them to also make it a collectors only set whereas it it limited to no more then 100,000 sets with a limit of two sets per person. The catch is you have to have at least $1,000 in orders over the prior 12-month period. This will eliminate the majority of the gift cards that are used to place multiple orders…. Why not? Canada is currently using a priority ordering system for those who have a certain volume sales before they open it up to the general public….

  17. thePhelps says

    I think the mint would need congressional approval to do a 5 or 10 ounce Kennedy. The idea being floated on reverse proofs etc wouldn’t need congress involved at all – since it isn’t a change to the actual coin. I would guess the mint got a lot of positive feedback on the idea of a special set – lets hope they pick the right offering!

    Imagine what they could do with the use of the new laser technology…

  18. simon says

    im just : the first 10 oz h/r coin ever – YES !!! a 5 Oz or a 10 Oz would also be very reasonably priced and the best value among its weight equivalent peers from “other” mints.

    I would settle for :
    W Mint : HR
    S Mint : Pr
    P Mint : RPr
    D Mint : En Unc

    in Ag and clad – a total of 8 coins.

    I’ve almost completed my full set of all Ag issues of the Kennedy Half.

  19. Tim says

    Next year might be a good time to turn the half into THE circulating dollar coin or a $2.50 or a $5.

  20. thePhelps says

    Tim…kind of like the idea of turning the half into a $2.50 piece…I have lots of rolls and would be in the bank the minute that happens!

    Actually – the idea of changing to a $2.50 piece is a good idea – I think!

  21. Hidalgo says

    Gosh, it would be really hard for young collectors to collect US Mint products. Like on poster said above, it would cost $10,000 + to collect all of the choice coins.

    If I were a young collector who received a $1,000 cash gift, I would not know what to buy. What would anyone recommend? Something that one could buy as a keepsake? Something that would grow in value? Something else?

  22. Rich says

    @ Zaz – I’m standing by for the ”mediocrity’ fireworks celebration to follow…, ouch! 🙂

    The Bachelor Liberty coins seemed to draw quite a bit of interest.., I love my Jefferson and wish I snagged a Jackson through the mint when affordable. That should send a strong signal to the mint…, great style is always is a favorite. Go retro and bring back classic designs and everyone loves – ’09 Double Eagle was a hit!

  23. says


    It would be a tough choice to make. Some years might be “lucky” for a gift like that, with something like a reverse proof buffalo or a UHR double eagle.

    But in most cases I would probably look more to buy attractive keepsakes than anything else.

  24. Tim says

    thePhelps. “Actually – the idea of changing to a $2.50 piece is a good idea – I think!” I mentioned it since the paper vs coin debate struck again lately. The half size is unique and IMO makes a good trade off to end the current half with another face value coin with much hIgher value. Of course they might have to add the golden color to it to keep it from being confused with old regular halves or schemes by crooks. Just like the Liberty nickel only in reverse to how that went,lol.

  25. thePhelps says

    Hidalgo – a 1 time gift of $1000 would be a tough sell on starting a collection of curent mint product offerings. If it is an anual recurring gift – then maybe we are on to something! My thought is they could procure a number of nice items this year – but if they don’t get an influx of cash for next year – then what?

    If it is a one year deal – this year I might go for the 5oz coins and maybe a silver proof set… or the General Proof…pretty much blows the 1k.

  26. Dustyroads says

    A young collector with a $1,000 gift card could afford a half oz. proof gold eagle, great coin! Right now though I think we have to watch prices.

  27. Eddie says

    I have thinking about a lot. I really like the idea of a 5oz or a 10oz UHR. Either way ir would be so great or if they couldn’t do the UHR then an enhanced one.but I like the UHR a lot better

    Proof Set:
    UHR .999 silver proof – W
    RP .999 silver proof – W
    .999 silver proof – P
    .999 silver proof – D
    .999 silver proof – S

    Uncirculated SET

    UHR .999 silver unc.-W
    Enhanced .999 silver unc.- W
    .999 silver unc. – P
    .999 silver unc. -S
    .999 silver unc. – D

    I figure that we could have 2 different sets and have a big 5oz or 10oz cherry to top things off

  28. Eddie says

    We could use the clad halves in the regular sets. I really do like the 10 ozer idea.

  29. Hidalgo says

    I don’t know if any of you noticed, but all of the 2012 Acadia quarters have sold out on the US Mint website. (P, D rolls, 100 coin bag of Ps and 100 coin bag of Ds)

    I bought a 100 coin bag of Acadia D quarters recently. The quarter has the lowest mintage of any American the Beautiful quarter (21,606,000). Perhaps it will be the key coin of the series. Who knows what that may translate to in the future?

  30. Hidalgo says

    I should have said that the Acadia D quarter has the lowest mintage to date of any made-for-circulation America the Beautiful quarter.

  31. Dan in Fla says

    I called Provident and they said that they got their airtite holders for the 5 oz Perrys Victory coins. They will probably ship by Friday the 21st. Lets hope so as my order was placed on 6.1.13 and the price of silver has dropped since then.

  32. Hidalgo says

    @Dan – gold and silver prices continue to fall in value. We could possibly see gold coins drop to another tier if current trends continue.

    Silver values keep dropping too. I sure am glad I did not buy some 2013 ASEs a few weeks ago!

  33. Don says

    High Low Silver,

    I agree with you that the Kennedy Halves should end their run in 2014. A special 50th anniversary Kennedy collector set would be a great way to culminate the series. Half dollars are not used very much in commerce anymore and there probably would no longer be any need for the Mint to continue to produce them after 2014. As it is now, although the new Kennedy issues are still considered circulating coins, they are really collector coins.

    I can’t remember the last time I had a half dollar in my pocket change. Can any of you?

  34. says


    I’m not sure they’ve ever really circulated for a long time. I never remember my parents receiving any in change when I was young. I suspect these things were just getting minted and then sitting in bank vaults, similar to what happened with the dollar coin programs.

    It’s a real shame because this is my favorite denomination too. I’d rather see it overhauled, but I agree it should probably ended.

  35. VA Bob says

    IMO the Mint wasted a good opportunity to spread a lot of collector goodwill by not issuing a buffalo nickle this year. Sure loads would have been made, but the folks love them. It would have been great for the people that couldn’t afford the proof gold and/or RP Buffalo, but still want to be part of this iconic numismatic anniversary. It isn’t like they couldn’t whip up the dies quickly, I’m sure they still have the original plasters.

    I hope they do something nice for the Kennedy halfs, but after that I’d like to see the series end, and a move to remove all presidents from circulating coins. Too many hurt egos for it to happen, I know, but one can hope.

    Got my replacement annual proof set, after having to return the first set. They are acceptable, but I’m really disappointed in the overall appearance. The frosting on the devices basically wipes out the details. They look sandblasted. Seems we are taking a step backward in the name of modernization. Look at a set from the 90’s and compare it to this years and you’ll see exactly what I mean.

  36. VA Bob says

    “The quarter has the lowest mintage of any American the Beautiful quarter (21,606,000). Perhaps it will be the key coin of the series. Who knows what that may translate to in the future?”

    Hildago – I don’t know the answer to your question, but can you name anything that 21 million copies were made and collected from the start that is worth much? Sure the 1909 vdb cent, but it didn’t have the benefit (or curse depending on your view point) of millions of examples in proof set, mint sets, rolls, and bags made especially for collectors. If it had it would be much less valuable today. Plus I have a feeling our hobby is not really growing in leaps and bounds. Hope I’m wrong, but most young people are being conditioned to use plastic.

  37. Rich says

    @ Ikaika at 1:40 pm – thanks for sharing, I appreciate that! On the drive home this evening that brought back some fond memories of a gentleman that lived behind me that worked for L&N railroad who gave me a coin each Christmas when my bike still had training wheels. I hadn’t gone through those coins in unfortunately, 20 years (but did so this evening) – two fist fulls of early Ike’s, JFKs, and ’45 halves, though I still proudly hang that L&N railroad lantern in the garage.

    Yes, those were the Happy Days! Cheers!

  38. Louis says

    @VABob- I assume you mean Buffalo nickels for circulation. It’s a nice idea, but they absolutely do not have legal authority to do anything like that. Congress would have to authorize it, and nickels cost more to make than their face value. I can guarantee you Congress would not approve the issuance of another nickel this year. It might have been possible to do a special one for collectors because that could be sold at a profit, but definitely not for circulation. The reason I am so sure they would not approve it is they refused to approve a proposal to issue Liberty themed cents and nickels for the same reason. Congress does not care about collectors.

  39. simon says

    There was a Jefferson – buffalo combo nickel in ’05 as part of the special series. So there is precedence for combining the two designs on a single coin. They could easily strike a “replica” medal without a denomination ( and yours truly would like edge lettering on it ! ) 😉

  40. Jerry Diekmann says

    I have to agree with many other posters who feel that the Kennedy half dollar should be discontinued after 2014. It’s already been issued longer than JFK was alive. I know many people really liked JFK, and he was certainly charismatic and handsome, but he was nowhere near the caliber of other “dead presidents” we have had now on our coins for far too long (Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, FDR, and Ike). Teddy Roosevelt should be honored on a coin other than the President dollars, which portray as many losers as decent men. And I also agree that it’s time to end the presidents on circulating coins, period.

    The Mint really did miss an opportunity to score points with collectors by not minting a 2013 buffalo nickel (Type 2) for circulation. I guess Congress would have to authorize such a coin, but most of should know very well by now that Congress is totally dysfunctional and doesn’t do anything worthwhile anymore, so it should be no shock that they haven’t done anything about our nation’s coinage, either. Regarding the cost of nickels, aluminum and aluminum alloys make fine coins – they are lightweight, wear well, and don’t rust. Sometimes politicians don’t even consider simple solutions.

  41. Ray says

    Ive seen Kennedy halfs throughout my life, but mostly all in casinos and slot machines. THey love them for blackjack tables. There are always 4+ sealed rolls on each table as well as an opened roll. Thats about the only place I see the being used these days. From the smallest casinos in cripple creek, CO to the larger ones throughout the country (Vegas, Reno, AC), they all use them. It seems like the only usable purpose for them. I like them, and I keep what I get from casinos, but I dont think I’d ever pay a premium for any, unless they are silver.

    I’d also like to see the kennedy half go away after next year. That, along with the penny, paper dollar, and maybe the nickel. But thats just my opinion. It really seems like they need to get with the times and quit making circulating coins for what seems to be strickly nostalgic reasons. I thought for sure that we would see the penny go away no long after Canada dumped it. Maybe we will. Who knows. Only time will really tell. This cant go on forever, thats for sure. I hope our govt is smarter to get out of it before the spot of a penny becomes worth more than 1 cent. Our treasury dept and congress dont seem like the smartest people on Earth tho, so it may be many years. ‘ll be patiently waiting for this day, and when it comes, i’m throwing a party!!

  42. Erik H says

    Don says:
    June 19, 2013 at 7:49 pm

    I can’t remember the last time I had a half dollar in my pocket change. Can any of you?

    I can, I have them in my pocket everyday. Went to the bank today and got $45 dollars worth. It included 2 – 90% silver & 6 – 40% silver.

    In the past week I have found 3 – 90% silver & 26 – 40% silver Kennedy half dollars by roll searching! Just when I think I couldn’t possibly find any more… I get lucky. The recession has been good for getting unwanted coins back to the banks where I find them. The tellers all look at me like I’m crazy… if they only knew, let the hunting continue!

  43. fmtransmitter says

    @Erik H:
    I have been getting rolls of quarters for same reason and FINALLY last week I got one 1964. It was dirty and the year was covered up and it was in a clear plastic so I see why it slipped through. I am going to try the halves this time for a few months and see what happens. I have read and heard about the economy forcing people to spend their silver coinage more than ever before in history. Congrats on your treasure. BTW, my El Cazador 1783 showed up with a slight bulge on the back of the slab. No harm no foul but emailed the seller about it and received a 15% refund. Now I really love it! Agreed about ending the Kennedy’s with a bang and something LOW mintage and special set and unique, like never before done. Cheers Comrades in coins…

  44. Hidalgo says

    I personally like the Kennedy half dollar. I remember when Kennedy was alive and President of the US. What a great time that was!

    I sure would like to see some design changes on obverse of the nickel, dime, and quarter. How long have the same Presidents been on these coins?

    If Kennedy were replaced, who or what should be on the obverse of the coin? Teddy Roosevelt? Ronald Reagan? Or to recognize the contributions of women, the best person would be…. ?

  45. Hidalgo says

    Seems like gold and silver prices are taking a beating. Maybe we’ll see more price drops or the US Mint’s precious metal products in the future 🙂

  46. thePhelps says

    Hidalgo – honoring dead people on coins should just go away – period. I believe the mint has a program for honoring historic figures from the past – and any new coins with people should go to commemoratives only.

    The half hasn’t circulated from the mint since 2001, so just end the series, no need to issue any more of them after next year.

  47. A&L Futures says

    @ Hidalgo – I received a Market Alert from APMEX that Silver touched $20 per ounce this morning.

    What affect will this have on U.S. Mint offerings? I realize they’ll fall IAW their pricing guide, but how low will/can they go before they pull the plug alltogether? Perhaps the market is setting the stage for an ’08 repeat?

  48. Hidalgo says

    From a historical perspective, values for gold and silver continue to remain high. So I would expect further declines.

    I’ve been saying for quite some time that, with the improvement in the US economy, the values of precious metals would fall. We’re seeing that now.

    I really feel bad for those who bought gold and silver bullion when they were much higher in value. Gold had been selling for over $1800 per ounce and silver for more than $40 per ounce at one time. But that’s what happens when one buys because everyone else is doing it and greed is the source of one’s motivation.

  49. Rich says

    Down 6% as of this morning, another $4 and we could see $100 reduction off the mint price if it were to hold.

  50. bill b says

    If gold and silver are falling because of an improving economy, how do you explain copper’s fall today? Doesn’t correlate with he rationale you put out there.
    I think the big investment houses are just selling everything as they expect a (long overdue) wholesale correction in stocks and bonds, and when that happens, often “everything must go”.
    Opportunities will present themselves for the nimble.

  51. simon says

    NOT bragging here but I picked up a 1941 Walking Liberty half from a bank teller. She must have felt generous when I asked for halves.

  52. Robertson says

    From a historical perspective, values for gold and silver continue to remain high. So I would expect further declines.

    I’ve been saying for quite some time that, with the improvement in the US economy, the values of precious metals would fall. We’re seeing that now.

    I really feel bad for those who bought gold and silver bullion when they were much higher in value. Gold had been selling for over $1800 per ounce and silver for more than $40 per ounce at one time. But that’s what happens when one buys because everyone else is doing it and greed is the source of one’s motivation.

    A good post is worth repeating. Thanks, Hidalgo. In the near future and perhaps even longer, gold and silver prices have no where to go except downward. I too have been saying this for more than a year. Personally, I see gold falling below $1000/oz within the next year or two, which can only help to stimulate interest in the hobby again.

  53. Shutter says

    I’ve been saying for quite some time that, with the improvement in the US economy
    Yep, that must be it. The economy improving, as detailed here:
    Increased layoffs and manufacturing slowdown are sure signs of improving economy.

  54. Smiledon says

    If we do not put this nation’s leaders on money, who would we honor?
    Vegas? LA? NYC?
    Maybe John Wayne? (I would not mind that.)
    Michael Moore? (I would rather choke.)

  55. stephen m says

    @Hidalgo&Shutter, Retire the half. The economy is improving but it’s like that old ketchup commercial. It’s sooo slow. The growing pains are weird. Take this am for instance, everything is falling but when the pieces are put back together the economy will have grown some more. I thought interest rates were going to go up for years now. It may be finally here and about to happen in the next year or so. Think about the money to be made there and at whoms expense?…..and the beat goes on!

  56. says


    I would like to see a return to classic depictions of liberty and other historic national symbols on our coins, though such a thing is probably a pipe dream.

  57. Ray says

    wow, that article about the big drop in gold prices was spot on, and i thnk he picked the exact date, if not , it was very very close. crazy. maybe we’ll see a drop of 2 levels for gold. cant believe silver is below $20/ounce. glad i held off on buying the 1 ounce gold buff proof and the 1 ounce uncirculated gold eagle. i wonder what sparked this selloff or drop in prices? anyone know?

  58. says

    Stephen m,

    I really wish you were correct, but Southern Europe is mired in recession and the effects are beginning to seep into the core of the Eurozone. Not to mention the Bank of China only narrowly avoided a serious liquidity crisis last night. Plus, there’s what Shutter just posted.

    Don’t take this the wrong way. I’m enjoying the low prices and plan on taking advantage of them to the fullest extent I can. But we are not remotely out of the woods, with Federal Reserve “money printing” being the only thing keeping the financial system afloat right now. I believe it is only a matter of time until something “breaks” and we have another Lehman-style crisis in the US.

  59. says


    Bernanke talked yesterday about “tapering off” QE again yesterday, and there was a major liquidity problem in China overnight which scared the bejesus out of people. Pretty much everything is cratering today, including PMs.

  60. Fosnock says


    I just bought from APMEX, as they had Basin in pre-sale. It looks like some carry trade just collapsed but who knows at least this one makes sense as everything is bleeding. I figured this has to be the bottom but then again I said that before.

  61. EvilFlipper says

    These markets are about to get bath salted. Crazy movements. I’m holding cash for awhile.

  62. IPS_STUFF says

    Anyone think the delay of the WP 2 coin ASE set and the price of metals will spur on more cancellations of this set?

    Just a thought since there is only $40 worth of silver in the set.


  63. says


    In spite of what it would do to the miners, I think we could see silver go down another five bucks. Except for US Mint numismatic products, I am thinking of holding back on coin purchases right now. This is good news for people who will be buying the RP buffalo though.

    I remain convinced we have the potential for a huge and fast recovery in prices due to the crazy demand for physical metals, but right now it doesn’t seem like it’s going to happen with the markets in panic mode.


    Agree absolutely. We have not yet found a bottom in PMs or anything else.

  64. DCDave says

    Nice to see everyone (experts and lay people) on board with predicting PM declines for the future. You know what that means don’t you folks?

  65. Rich says

    Congrats Simon, that’s one of the things I love about this hobby, it’s the perpetual scavenger hunt! I thought I had found an extra leaf Wisconsin quarter last week, but it was just a well placed gouge.

    OT: Hypothetically, if gold took a plunge to say $800 an ounce and the mint bought gold blanks at $1200/ounce with finished product cost say $1300 per coin, under the new pricing grid system, how would the mint react or price a coin? Take the loss or suspend for however long?

  66. Fosnock says

    @Rich – Unless it changes the rules the mint has to follow the pricing guide which is updated every Wednesday.

  67. Fosnock says


    Good point maybe I will get the RP buffalo. As far as the miners they were already laying off workers and shutting down, this price collapse is going to kill them

  68. EvilFlipper says

    I would normally agree with you DC. But gold and silver get posted as collateral in margin accounts. Itll get sold hard as market shows cracks. I give a crap about stock markets…. It’s the bond market I’m worried about. I’ll wait for lower prices to buy more gold and silver. And I will buy more, just not right now. I wouldn’t be suprised to see gold puke 100+ dollars today based on the Chinese repo markets last night. Everyone is taking a swan dive soon enough. S.c.a.r.y.

  69. stephen m says

    CO, Well the 85 billion a month in printed money is going to start drying up according to the fed chairman yesterday. The only way that will happen is with an improved economy or high inflation.

  70. Jon in CT says

    Rich wrote on June 20, 2013 at 11:35 am:

    OT: Hypothetically, if gold took a plunge to say $800 an ounce and the mint bought gold blanks at $1200/ounce with finished product cost say $1300 per coin, under the new pricing grid system, how would the mint react or price a coin? Take the loss or suspend for however long?

    The Mint’s gold pricing grid says this:
    *Note: The United States Mint reserves the right to discontinue sales of gold numismatic products in the event that the selling price of United States Mint gold bullion products begin approaching the sale price of the gold numismatic products.

    That doesn’t quite answer your question, but I suspect dealer premiums for gold bullion coins would increase dramatically in the scenario you describe, pushing their prices close to the Mint’s grid prices.

  71. jayarejr says

    Provident emailed me today that they shipped my 5oz. Perry. Lucky me…I was going to cancel the order today with silver down below $20 and wait until the carnage subsided.

  72. Rich says

    Thanks Gentlemen for the input!

    @ Jon in CT – wow, that’s some loosely written and crafty language that could be applied seven ways from Sunday. Guess a discontinuation would occur until the situation righted itself. Hmmmm….

  73. CW says

    I am hoping for $1000 gold and $10 silver. I am young; it will come back and I want to load up. And I would love an RP Buffalo that I can (somewhat) afford.

  74. says


    At $10 silver we would be looking at something like $600-$700 gold. $15 silver is where we might see $1000.

    I am kind of happy about the crashes because if this continues at this level I might be able to start buying gold numismatic products. I wonder if other world mints will begin capitulating on product prices in the face of these dramatic declines.

  75. Dustyroads says

    I don’t believe the Mint is going to change their pricing on the grid. To the contrary, I see them doing what they have done before, as in `08 and `12.
    As for PM prices, we can’t be too far off the floor, I guess! Was just reading about CCFD’s unwinding in China’s banking system, “wow” talk about one less leg to stand on…can you hear me now? If we don’t see a move upward in PM’s over the next few months, it’s my guess that no one reading this blog should even consider siting around waiting for a sell out from the US Mint!!!!

  76. Dan says

    Hey Guys

    Just remember, with gold products there is already 30+% markup so I think the mint can absorb some of the decline with out going out of business. At 1000, an AGE Proof is still 1390.

  77. Rich says

    Hey Dan, I thought the same until I read this last week in the Annual Report –

    This is a repost –

    Numismatic sales decreased 23.3 percent to 5.6 million units in FY 2012. Numismatic revenues decreased 33.3 percent to $481.2 million mainly because of a decrease of $208.4 million in gold and platinum product revenue and a decrease of $41.7 million in annual core sets revenue. Numismatic net income decreased 34.7 percent to $73.9 million. Numismatic net margin decreased to 15.4 percent compared to 15.7 percent last year.

    You see where the income and cost drivers are…, and as a whole, a 15% margin.., so if applied to the ’12 SF set.., appx $23 net/set – I would not have guessed that. “

  78. Rich says

    One note on the Mint’s Sales Report page –

    The sales for the 5 Star General Comms is not reflective of the 3-coin set (5G7), and 5G7 is not listed on either page.

    I haven’t search for other discrepancies – just a heads up.

  79. Ray says

    wonder if we’ll see another product price adjustment for silver products.

    i’m looking at buying some rolls of 90%, mostly just for content, not looking for BU. any suggestions on places to buy from?

  80. thePhelps says

    Rich – my take on the mint loss of income based on gold products etc… is that people stopped buying them or bought less because of the price. The same with silver – the 5 oz. coins sold almost nothing and the mint kept trying to make more money off them by increasing the price – and sold even fewer. The high price of bullion was causing them to raise the prices to the point it almost broke. The lower prices – will mean volume sells will increase and return profit.

    Oh… and the did make a few hundred million dollars in profit last year – depite the figures you quoted.

    Unlike gold (with it’s $50 and $100 swings) – I think silver will get repriced around $15 to $17 if it drops that low.

    The mint has about $2.4 billion worth of gold in hand…did you guys not read that already? They have tonnes of it and don’t need to buy any at the current prices – but that also means they might suspend sells until the price stabilizes…

  81. high low silver says

    @ Ray….. I’m looking for the same thing ,90% scrap…. Might find a local dealer for that.

  82. simon says

    Ray : you can look at the big dealers like Fidelitrade or the small ones like mintproducts, of course depending on quantity.

  83. dan says

    Thanks Phelps

    I agree 100% about sales being down due to the price and also felt that the mint was trying to make up for lost profit on reduced sales by increasing the cost to those still buying.

  84. high low silver says

    I also think I might cancel my last order for the WP set from the Mint.I have untill Sept to do so.

  85. Rich says

    @ Ray – Provident has junk bags in their wholesale section. Prices are good there too.

  86. ann says

    Michael, thanks as always for the super jop you do!
    Any word why the Mint is delaying the shipping of
    WP sets?

  87. Don says


    You brought up the point that the plunging silver market might result in more cancellations of the WP set. The intrinsic (bullion) value of the set is now coming in around $40., as you stated in your comment. The big question is whether or not the numismatic value of the set will hold, especially since there were around 180,000 ordered. Obviously the collector/investor does not want to see an immediate decline in the value of the set.
    The secondary market, particularly Ebay, will provide the answer to the WP set’s short- term value. I would assume that the 2006 and 2011 SE sets will continue to hold their strong numismatic values despite the decline in silver prices. They have the supply and demand thing going for them. In other words, the numismatic value is largely the determining factor for the strong secondary market for the ’06 and’11 sets.

  88. george glazener says

    Silver crashing….Good thing I have some GOLD.
    Uh oh, Gold crashing too. Good thing I have mutual funds.
    Uh oh, just checked Wall St Journal…..stocks are tanking. Good thing I have some land. Real estate won’t ever go down in value, will it?

  89. bigdawg says

    west point 2 coin set on ebay pcgs ms 70 first strikes 7 hours left on auction set is going for $380.00 so far ,for $39.00 worth of silver,i’am a 60 year coin collector cannot see that at all!!

  90. george glazener says

    LOL, what color are the rocks? If they’re silver or gold, I ain’t touching it…!

  91. george glazener says

    Me either. It’ll be interesting to see what the boys on CoinVault have to say tonight..!! How do they spin this crash into sales….?

  92. IPS_STUFF says

    Regards to Steve’s – my west point silver eagle set shipped today…

    anyone else have an order showing shipped ? When I called an canceled one of my orders today, I was told they would not ship until early July.

    anyone with credit card charged?

  93. Rich says

    Steve – I’m going to have to live vicariously through you, so pop back on here when your sets arrive and tell us what’cha think. My 08-08 date hasn’t budged.., what a 24 hour difference in order placement makes.

    High Low – I cancelled my Sept order

  94. VaBeachEd says

    Just Checked my WP order with the mint. Two orders said to ship on 6-17 and third order is backordered to September.

  95. high low silver says

    No $$ here unless your a Cvl war buff gg….. I would love to rent a metal dectator tho….

  96. george glazener says

    I actually am a CW buff, and the Revolution too..!!
    I’m hoping to have time to visit Gettysburg in 2 weeks or so, Shouldn’t be much of a crowd there, ya think?

  97. Dan in Fla says

    Provident finally shipped my Perry coins today at 5pm. On the WP sets I called the Mint today and they told me that they are not in the warehouse yet so they cannot ship until 7/2/13.

  98. Paddy says

    George, I always find time to go to GB. They should be opening up the Site the IParks purchased a couple years ago. It was in private hands previously and has a golf course and Hotel on it.

  99. Hawkster says


    Your WP sets shipped today? By some chance, are you a large quantity dealer or associated with one, such as HSN, Coin Vault, etc.? Or are you a little guy like the majority of us with a few (small quantity) orders for the sets?

  100. Hidalgo says

    @George – precious metals are dropping in value big time. I sure hope you did not buy bullion coins because, in general, they are worth only what the market will pay.

    Some, but not all, US Mint products can retain high secondary market values even if they are not worth their bullion content. Why? Economics 101 – demand and supply drive secondary market values. High demand will keep values high, whereas low demand will make values fall.

  101. Leo S. says

    I checked on my WP sets and it said that they were to ship on 6/17. However, today is 6/20 and my order is still on backorder. There seems to be a problem or I have a bad callender.

  102. Don says

    George G:

    If you get to Gettysburg, could you keep us posted on the battle results? The early betting line has General Meade’s Army of the Potomac as slight favorites over General Lee’s Army of Northern Virginia.

  103. says

    @Hawkster…I’m just a small-time guy like the rest of you. My order that shipped today is for 10 sets. When I go to track my order page it also has a tracking #. My cc was charged yesterday.

    I don’t understand why the Mint’s employees are telling some of you that the sets won’t ship until July.

    My sets were ordered @ 12:11. I’m sure that if mine were shipped today, thousands of others were too.

  104. Ray says

    @george, I live in Denver and the housing market has been booming for a while. Booming so much, that analysts are now saying that we’re in a bubble. Crazy huh? I’ve been shopping for a rental property and I’ve seen prices get out of hand, so I’m happy to hear this is a bubble. Some condos that I could have bought for 35-40k a year ago, were selling for around 65k 3 months ago, and now asking prices are 90k, and looks like it just sold for 88k. nothing and nobody is safe. i’m sitting still for a bit. thought about buying PM, but backed out after reading a lot today. for once, it seems that cash may be a good thing to be holding.

  105. george glazener says

    I sure will. I’m going to rig the outcome though. I’m planning on Skype-ing the Federal troop movements to Lee on the morning of the 1st. That is if he hurries up and learns how to use the laptop I gave him a year ago. He’s kind of behind the times with technology for some reason. Then I’m going to have a talk w/ Pickett to see what he has up his sleeve. He keeps saying he has a big surprise for us on the 3rd day. In any event, my money is on the Confederacy…long may she live…!!

  106. high low silver says

    What the ?? I thought that was a couple 100 years ago ?? Wow ! I thought gg stood for general grant……

  107. bill b says

    Condos were going for 35-40K???

    Forget the bubble at 90K, that sounds like a depression!!

  108. george glazener says

    Nope, Grant was in Vicksburg at the time. But he kept up with what was happening at Gettysburg by watching FOX NEWS.

  109. george glazener says

    But seriously folks, if anyone collects the Presidential Dollar Rolls, I’ve found an eBay store that sells them for 34.95 each for a heads+tails roll. Free shipping too. That beats direct from the MINT and you are certain of a heads+tails roll.

    The vendor’s e-mail is Quartersareus@aol.com. I’ve had no problems with these folks, good product & service every time. They are the very same rolls as the MINT would ship, not re-wrapped or anything.

  110. Buzz Killington says

    When you see 125+ comments to an article about half dollars, you just *know* something is happening with the PM markets….

  111. Ray says

    @bill b. yep, one in that building sold for 38k in 2011. it needed a lot of work of course. one that didnt need much work sold for 65k in 2012. now that same exact unit is listed for 98k. i think he’d be lucky to get 80k, maybe 85k. its certainly not vail, co. probably one of the cheapest places to find a condo, and def not an area i’d live in, but as long as u have a good tenant, theres $$ to be made. u can rent those units for $850-950/month w/o util. was a great place to buy a unit as a rental property. now i’m looking at taking a different route. i just started hearing talk of a denver real estate bubble yesterday, so i have a lot more reading to do about it. that analyst said this bubble looks like it will fizz, more than pop. as a buyer, i’d prefer it to pop. home values in my mountain community havent jumped around a lot like what I’m looking at in the city.

    anyone heere from Colorado?

  112. george glazener says

    I WAS planning on selling a boat load of 64 Kennedy Halves on eBay this summer. Now I think I’d be smarter buying them while the getting is good.

  113. george glazener says

    Nope, just visited CO many times. Absolutely love it out there…!
    Went to Red Rocks for the 1st time in 2011. What a great place to see a show, if you can survive the hike to your seat…..ugh…

  114. Don says

    George G:

    Speaking of Vicksburg: My wife and I drove the Natchez Trace Parkway a few years ago and we swung over to Vicksburg National Park for the day. It’s an awesome loop drive around the battlefield. The USS Cairo, the ironclad ship that was pulled from its watery grave in the Yazoo River in the mid 60’s, is beautifully reconstructed under a pavilion-type structure. Of course the Cairo is on the Vicksburg ATB quarter.
    And yes, Grant was the Union leader at Vicksburg–the Union troops eventually encircled the town, forcing many of its residents to live in caves and enduring starvation because of a lack of food. Ultimately the Union prevailed and winning Vicksburg was the key in gaining control of the Mississippi River.

  115. merryxmasmrscrooge says

    50 years after JFKs death and we cannot even take our own astronauts to space. We’ve forgotten the Moon and scrapped the Space Shuttle. We’ve committed ourselves to petty wwr games. America needs to start dreaming again.

  116. merryxmasmrscrooge says

    …and where’s the MLK half dollar?
    we’ve forgotten what is important.

  117. fosnock says

    Well the CME rose margins by 25%. In the middle of a blood bath. This might have had something to do with the lower price. As far as why the 50 cent piece stopped circulating it is called Gresham’s Law the clad coins drove out the last silver coin as people horded them

  118. Fosnock says

    @Samuel – India tied this back in the 70’s it did not work then and I doubt it will work now, but it does buy time for the bullion banks to replenish their gold stock.

  119. simon says

    The traditional Au-buying season in India is later in the year, and the steep exchange rate decline for the INR does not favor Au purchases. The Finance minister has asked their citizens to put off Au purchases for a year to reduce the current account deficit. It will be interesting to see what happens in the near future.

  120. merryxmasmrscrooge says

    If I was in 1964, this 2013 Kennedy half would look like something out of the Twilight Zone that fell out of someone’s purse.

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