2013 Mint Set Sold Out

It appears that the 2013 United States Mint Uncirculated Coin Set, also referred to as the 2013 Mint Set, has sold out. The product had previously been marked as “sold out” on the US Mint’s website last month, only to be made available once again.

Update: Again, the 2013 Mint Set has returned from “sold out” status and is available on the Mint’s website. I have reached out for an explanation and will relay any information.

All three of the US Mint’s 2013-dated core annual sets for have now sold out. The 2013 Silver Proof Set sold our in early February, and the 2013 Proof Set sold out in mid-July.

2013 Mint Set

The 2013 Mint Set originally went on sale June 4, 2013, about fourteen and a half months ago. Each set includes a total of 28 uncirculated coins struck at the Philadelphia and Denver Mints including the cent, nickel, dime, five quarters, half dollar, and five $1 coins from each facility. The sets were priced at $27.95 compared to an included face value of $13.82.

Based on the figures from the latest sales report posted today, the 2013 Mint Set has reached sales of 368,553 units. This figure comes in below the last reported sales figure for the 2012 Mint Set at 392,224 units. The 2012-dated set currently carries a strong premium on the secondary market with recently completed eBay auctions showing prices around $65 to $70 compared to the issue price of $27.95.

If the last reported sales number for the 2013 Mint Set stands, it would also mark the lowest sales for the product going all the way back to 1961.

50th Anniversary Kennedy Product Sales Update

After the frenzied launch, the pace of sales of the 2014 50th Anniversary Kennedy Half Dollar Gold Proof Coin has remained subdued. The latest weekly sales report referenced earlier shows cumulative sales growing by 1,180 units to 63,521.

To add some perspective, in the first two days, the gold coins had reached sales of 61,700 pieces. In the subsequent ten days, sales have only moved higher by 1,821 pieces.

The 2014 50th Anniversary Kennedy Half Uncirculated Coin Set has seen its pace of sales slow from earlier levels. The opening day sales for the product had reached 68,974. Three days later, the total increased by 15,619 to 84,593. In the subsequent weekly reports, sales had grown by 13,062 and 14,479. The most recent report shows sales flagging with an increase of 4,803 to a new cumulative total of 116,937.

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Comments

  1. Brad (The Original) says

    Since the U13 is still showing as sold out at the time of this writing, maybe it’s for real this time. It seems weird that it wasn’t backordered first like most products that sell out.

  2. Pittsburgh P says

    1821 gold JFK’s sold in 10 days… I think that everyone who actually wants one has one and the flippers who are waiting will cancel & return… Several posters here said they refused acceptance of their shipment. Time to shut it down? We know the mint won’t but after all is said and done I don’t see the mintage reaching 70,000 now… Maybe 200 a week sold from now on out is being generous.

    Agree? Disagree? I’d like to hear your veiws…

    Thank for the article Micheal

  3. Pittsburgh P says

    Taped HSNs Coin Vault last night… My favorite sitcom on TV today.

    2014 PR70 ANACS FDOI LE 388 99% Gold Kennedy Half Dollar
    2799.95$ + 9.95 S&H

    Sad thing is he will sell out I’m sure…

  4. Sith says

    How do you get a refund when you refuse the shipment? Do you call the mint for a refund or do they automatically refund your money once it comes back?

    @Pittsburgh P – I would say you could be correct but too many variable at this stage. Will the mint raise the household limit, will they announce an official end sales date? But with the Kennedy silver’s coming up I suspect everyone will move on to them, and if so the Kennedy gold could ultimately be a hit.

  5. VA Bob says

    PP – The 2009 UHR had similar numbers after its initial release. The JFK might not exceed the number of planchets it has on hand, but it costs the Mint nothing to have these available the rest of the year. The holiday season is still coming up and there are probably plenty of people scrapping up to purchase this coin. If the 1oz. AGE sells out, gift givers are going to be looking at this. Remember, for all the collectors that read blogs such as this there are probably many more that don’t, and get their info when the Mint catalogs arrive. As I’ve mentioned before, we’ll know much better come mid to late October.

  6. VA Bob says

    Annual sets seem to sell less each year. Prices fluctuate wildly. I recall the 2001 set being hot, it eventually cooled somewhat. I’m curious what adding another annual set (RP) would do to the numbers? Even with many sets being cracked out for certain coins, it is still easy to obtain previous years sets.

  7. Sith says

    @VA Bob – I’m not sure but one thing is for sure the ATBs for next year are among the worst of the series. Considering the mint can pull anniversaries out of a hat they could have chosen a better year to introduce a RP set.

  8. Pittsburgh P says

    Sith not sure what happens when you refuse a shipment. Don’t know why they wouldn’t just cancel before it shipped.
    I think once the Silver set is released most will move on to it… But some will order a gold with their order.

    VaBob I agree & don’t think the Mint will shut it down before the end of the year either. I know many wait for the catalogs but do remember seeing no mail orders for the JFK gold – am I mistaken? This might stop some from ordering it. Imo even with the holiday orders and those who waited I don’t see more than 200 per week being sold…

    Yes it is way too early to start speculating on what will happen but it’s fun to try…

  9. VA Rich says

    Pitt – there’s 19 weeks left until its pulled and it’ll sell on average 409 coins per week…, and thus, that’s how we’re going to get to 71,293! 😉

    Nah, I wouldn’t be surprised if your 200 number/week is more realistic which would be a good thing! With all the returns for replacement and refusals, this week’s sales number is going to be ‘squirrelly.’ So the returns and refusal should hit next week’s number as a negative, and then the ‘replacement sales’ may hit the following week’s sales number as a positive, that’s what I’m guessing. The mint has had my rejects since noon Monday and I haven’t heard a peep.

  10. VA Bob says

    Sith – Your credit card will be reimbursed. The only problem is that it could take awhile and one could get hit with interest charges for carrying the balance.

  11. says

    @Pittsburgh P, I think we disagree on Sales. I think I am in the minority here that think Sales are Net Sales and Not Gross Sales. If YOU are correct, then Sales are indeed Weak. IF I am correct you really don’t know true Sales without knowing Cancellations. There could have been 11,180 in Gross sales and 10,000 in cancellations. IF that is the case then Sales are actually Robust. There has been a boatload of Cancellations/Returns/Non acceptances…

    1. IF Sales are Gross Sales (As you believe) – Then Shut it Down
    2. The Mint will not Shut it down No matter what until after the Silvers are out so NO one can squawk and say “I was waiting to get the Clad, Gold and Silver all at one time so I could save $4.95. That’s Not Fair…”

  12. Larry says

    Looking at some sold Ebay sales for the 2013 RP Buff that has now been out for a year, OGP’s are pretty much selling for the price you could originally get them from the mint. Stupid ANA labels are the ones still making the big bucks, they are selling for around 3 grand. Of course if you paid more than that to get it in the first place, not so good a deal. So probably a year from now, the gold Kennedy will probably be in the same ballpark, unless the label bubble finally bursts. Or maybe even worse, as I personally think the RP Buff is a cooler coin.

  13. Small time collector says

    I feel with back to school, two quqrters of taxes, property taxes, the holidays and increased activity in the waning (most recent best investment) housing market that sales of the au Kennedys will simmer at best.
    Lower demand, and the resultant shipping out of potentially lower quality returns may turn the public off.
    I also think the ag collection should be a hit. If metals increase will we have a repeat of the 2006 P – RP Eagles?

  14. VA Bob says

    PP – You can’t buy via mail any gold from the catalogs (like you could in the past) due to the Mints weekly pricing grid. But, they do advertise gold coins (referring the buy to the website or to phone them).

    Agree with all that said that next years ATB’s are lacking. Maybe the Mint should offer the main coin lens ($.01, $.05, $.10 and $.50 coins) separately. Currently they force one to buy the $1 tokens and ATB’s in each set offered. which leads to another (what I believe is a) problem. Two coin series ($1 and ATB quarters) with RP part way through the series? Kind of like buying a new car painted half green and red. Who wants half a series in a different finish? One would have thought the Mint learn this with the “satin” finish UNC sets. People tend to like consistency. If they only do the main coin lens would the buy be forced to purchase the other two lenses as well, again?

  15. VA Rich says

    Larry, I think we’re seeing the JFK Label currently bursting.., the last thread had some good price history trends, think it was around yesterday’s a.m. comment.

  16. VA Rich says

    VA Bob – I struggle to understand why anyone would actively collect modern clad sets, regardless of the finish. I’m all in on the silver RP offering next year, the clad sets.., what’s the point? Sorry, just my sentiment towards more sets

  17. joe says

    There are two points of view here. As a flipper (which I’m not), this coin isn’t the best opportunity to come along this year. The Kennedy silvers might do better, but I think the best flip opportunity was the gold BHOFs, and that boat has sailed.

    As a collector (which I am), I think the 50th Kennedy gold is a beautiful coin (even though I’m not a big fan of Kennedy) and I see this coin appreciating over the years. I read an article from a so-called expert at KITCO saying that the Kennedy would never be worth much because a) collectors weren’t interested in odd-sized gold coins (3/4 ounce), and b) it’s a one-off – not part of a series. That sounds a bit lame to me. The 2009 UHR gold eagle is basically a one-off, and it did well, especially if it was purchased for $1200 from the Mint at its initial offering.

    Regarding the Mint sets (Pr and Unc), I try to grab the silver quarter sets from the Mints, but I quit collecting the clad sets a couple years ago for a few reasons. First, they take up space that I want for other hobbies. Second, the clad sets generally don’t perform well over time based on the eBay/coin show prices. Third, I just kind of got burned out on them and prefer to just pick up the business-strike versions of the coin from the bank (which is more fun too).

  18. VA Bob says

    VA Rich – Well 300K + sold (used to be many more) so they are popular. Some people still collect from circulated coins for their albums. I believe it is the joy of the hunt in that case, as much as set completeness. To your question, one could ask why someone collects spoons or thimbles. IMO it a relatively low cost way to collect coins in the nicest condition possible (proof or UNC). For lots of people silver, not to mention gold, is way out of reach of their financial means so they get what they can. For me it kind of chronicles US coinage history, even though many of these may never see a big return.

  19. Pittsburgh P says

    Cag I agree with what you are saying and when you say net sales are you only speaking of returns(since the mint doesn’t offer allowances or discounts on this item)? You are correct in saying I believe the numbers reported are gross sales. Idk if you are in the minority or not but the reason a I see it this way is because I don’t believe the Mint accounts for cancellations OR returns until the following weeks numbers. This is why we see low or even negative numbers. Also cancellations are NOT seen as sales until the product is shipped since payment isn’t received until then. Sales were not good since the cancelations took place before shipping. Since people are returning/refusing shipments this will effect net sales and cannot be in these numbers because they have not processed them yet so the numbers will be worse.

    Either way I don’t see the sales numbers for the past week as robust but stronger than what they will be…

    Good point about people waiting to get all three at once… They’ll just be waiting a while for the clad and gold

  20. Don says

    It takes unusual circumstances for nearly pure gold to tarnish or discolor. But, in the case of the Kennedy flippers, not only is the luster off the coin, but now the tarnish is appearing.

  21. says

    @Pittsburgh P, Your plan for the JFK type set sounds nice. It’ll be big but sounds like a nice idea.

    My big question, which probably won’t be answered until around News Years Day, is 2014 JFK (#51) the last?

  22. gary says

    Could be that if gold remains below $1,300 for the next week, the gold Kennedy will be back @ $1,240. That could goose sales but then again, there will probably be cancellations of the $1277.50 orders. And so it goes.

  23. stephen m says

    Pitts.Pete, If they run the gold Kennedy half thru the rest of the year there will be many more sold. If gold tanks maybe a lot more. I’m sticking to my original estimate of 150k+. No matter what there are a lot of Kennedy collectors and gold bugs. If you come back by this way in 100 years you’ll be shocked at their high value. Original buyers from the mint won’t lose any money on this one. JMO.

  24. Pittsburgh P says

    Stephen M we will just have to disagree… I would bet a JFK gold that 150k will not be touched-even if it ran through 2015. I agree that people who buy from the mint won’t lose money but I don’t think I’ll see 100 years from now…

    2cents thanks, yeah its a tad large-12×14 in size… All 13 coins would probably fit in the 7in nimbus display & look good too.

  25. jeff says

    Eagle one that’s what you call DESPERATE I guess we know who was at the show causing pandemonium PNC

  26. says

    joe,

    I largely agree with your viewpoint here. The gold Kennedies may very well appreciate, but it is going to be something that happens down the road. I think it’s a beautiful piece and the hullabaloo over flipping has really done the coin itself a disservice. I also think it’s an essential item for any serious collector of Kennedy halves to have, which is why I think you will see it eventually appreciate.

    But it could be a long wait. 10 years? 20 years? Maybe longer.

    VA Bob,

    You raised an interesting point. On the annual set sales numbers shrinking, I think it’s a combination of two things.

    1. Expanded product portfolio by the US mint (don’t think this needs much explanation, more competition for collector $$$).
    2. The gold/silver boom. The runup in gold and silver prices caused the prices of the annual sets to greatly inflate, and while prices of gold and silver have fallen, prices of the annual sets still seem to remain fairly high in relation to their actual value. Perhaps someone with a better sense of history could tell me whether the sets were always this overpriced or whether it’s a recent trend.

    Something else which might be causing sales to fall is increased competition from world mints. With the internet becoming increasingly important in commerce, world mints like Perth, RCM, and UK Royal Mint can all compete more easily against the US Mint for collector dollars. The work of coin publications/blogs/collectors also helps this process. I’d never have known about the Bank of Latvia producing worthwhile collector coins if not for Michael.

  27. says

    @Pittsburgh P, Again I may be in the minority but I don’t agree with you on how Sales Numbers are Recorded. I believe the Mint Sold 56,694 Gold Kennedy’s Day 1. I don’t think Shipments has anything to do with Recorded Sales Numbers. According to the Mint they only had 40,000 coins minted on Day 1 so how could they Record 56,694 of sales on Day 1 because they don’t even have that many coins produced? The Mint does not record Sales Dollars until Shipment but I disagree on when the Sales Numbers are recorded.

    According to the Mint 50,000 Gold BHOF sold in a couple of days and 400,000 Silver BHOF sold in 10 days and yet we know that it has taken months for shipments and until yesterday the Mint had not changed Any Sales Numbers (only on the excel spreadsheet).

    Supposedly the Mint reads this Blog. It would be very easy for them to clarify the way they handle this situation…

  28. NC_Stacker says

    Sith what will happen if they refuse or the address will not accept, it will be sent back and they will contact you with your intentions. I know this as I asked about this while talking to the Mint. But it wasn’t a refusal, but a error in delivery if there were issues of a mint item being sent to a UPS Store box.

  29. Pittsburgh P says

    Cag I was only saying that its not a “sale” until shipment not that the mint doesn’t record it as such until shipment or cancelation. I am saying that I don’t believe that once a cancelation is made it automatically is taken away from the numbers. Once all the cancelations for the week are tallied it is subtracted from the “sales” or I guess a better word for non is&r items – reserved item, imo only since neither of us really know what’s goin on there…

    It would be nice if they’d claify but we know that won’t happen.

  30. jeff says

    The only thing I’ll remember about the gold Kennedy release is the corruption on the part of dealers rigging this show to there gains and this has caused the demise of this offering. As far as I’m concerned it’s at best scrap gold what’s .75 oz going for.

  31. says

    Simple search on the bay. “2014 Gold Kennedy -69 -70″ $1,000.00-$5,000.00

    Total Completed Listing – 182
    Total Sold Listings – 26

    Minimum – $1,255.00
    Maximum – $1,675.00
    Avg – $1,431.09

    SO……Let me get this Straight……”The Gold Kennedy has been available for 15 days and there has been a TOTAL of 27 coins SOLD in OGP in 15 days on the Bay” “Is that Correct?” “Yep”

  32. Pittsburgh P says

    Jeff about $968.25… Do you like/collect coins? Or just stack bullion… Or neither? First the BHoF coins now the “scrap” jfk gold.

    Cag good info-maybe people finally realized direct from the Mint is an option 🙂

  33. says

    Gold pricing. We could see a price decrease Next Wednesday. The Gold market sold off modestly when the minutes of the FOMC were released. When the minutes were released, Interest rates immediately turned up which is not good for Gold. Current spot Gold is $1,290.00

  34. jeff says

    P I think of myself as a prospector. I collect coins that have value or upside , that have uniqueness low mintage, graded and ungraded, I pick my spots I’m easily amused you don’t have to be a collector to see a train wreck like the Kennedy offering is a debacle on the mints part. I expect no difference with the silver release however I’ll take a stab at the 4 different textures.

  35. Hawkster says

    Cagcrisp has confirmed that the Kennedys are languishing on ebay. No surprise there. Wow, talk about tanking. But, of course, the coins are still available from the Mint. Because of all the media attention that surrounded the release of the coin, I believe that the vast majority of ebay buyers now know that they can obtain it directly from the Mint.

  36. Jon in CT says

    It appears the Mint is really pushing the 2014 National Baseball Hall of Fame Young Collectors Set (B37). They’ve even sent me a separate email today about it. But the set looks really lame to me and I can’t believe even a 10-year-old would be impressed with it. On the other hand, the Baseball Hall of Fame seems to have commissioned its own Collectors Set for that coin. It’s twice as expensive and is available at Amazon. It looks far more professional and even includes an Admission Ticket to the Hall of Fame.

  37. Eagle One says

    Concerning the Kennedy Gold Half, US Mint sales are competing with secondary market sales. This is an unfavorable market condition. Internal market competition only benefits the consumer. Based upon the sales of the 1998-S Silver Matte coin, I estimate there are 63K Kennedy collectors in the world. I would suspect that supply has met demand for the time being. Having these two simultaneous economic conditions suggest that market saturation is approaching. Supply needs to be removed from the market in order to increase demand. If the Mint continues to sell, they will maintain their margins. If the Ebayer continues to sell at no reserve, they will lose their margin. The secondary sellers need to wait for the Mint’s sellout announcement before attempting any future sales.

  38. says

    Jon,

    Thanks as always for the link. That’s quite a nice looking set in comparison with the Young Collectors, which unfortunately seems a bit amateurish. The mint ought to consider promoting it in some way.

  39. AkBob says

    OT – UPDATE: Just received 8 Unc’s and 8 Proofs for the Baseball HOF $1 Silver Dollars today. They are still shipping them out. Also received my 3 Kennedy Clad 2 Coin Sets as well.

  40. jeff says

    Eagle one you are exactly right, however the mint plans on selling until the end of this year. Who knows where gold prices will be, it’s possible in the months to come you can pick one up for 20% less this will be a buying opportunity my advise be patient they will flood the bay many can’t wait till end of year they will sell for a loss just to recoup something they have bills like us. I have sold for less than what I paid move on little donkey.

  41. Pittsburgh P says

    Jeff… Prospector I like that.
    I do the same but that isn’t always my number 1 concern. If I like a design I will buy it & at times it pays off and if it doesn’t I am still happy.

  42. VA Bob says

    Eagle One – I have to disagree on you assertion that there are only 62K JFK half collectors based on the 98 satin finish coin. First off it assumes that there are no new collectors in 16 years. Secondly, there were a lot less people on the internet then. I was on the internet and still bought that particular issue via mail and check. Third, the offering was not available long if memory serves me correctly about 6 weeks, then it was cut off quickly. Fourth, it wasn’t exactly cheap at 60 bucks compared to the price of silver (as the RFK silver dollar was included, the JFK half was not offered separately).

    I wasn’t a JFK collector at the time (still don’t really consider myself one). Now I’m not sure exactly how many JFK collectors there are, but there is enough that the P and D mints typically make around 1.8 million each for bags and rolls each year (more last year), not including annual sets, since 2001. At any rate it would be hard to gage because of the price point is so different. If one where to use the current number of gold sales to determine the average number of regular JFK collectors it would easily reach over 100K, as more people can afford the clad or silver IMO. The clad anniversary set is probably a better indicator of the number of JFK collectors. It hasn’t been long that the JFK gold has been available, much too early to call it a winner or loser. I’m interested what it does when it is no longer available from the Mint, that’s the real test of a coins value since there will be no more made.

  43. Brad (The Original) says

    Uh…the U13 is back. Again. At least it is at the time of this writing. The item still shows as “sold out” on the page showing the annual sets, but if you click on it specifically it can be added to the cart and shows “in stock” if you view your cart.

    Gee whiz, get it together, Mint!

  44. VA Bob says

    Cag?Brad – The Mint would just cancel your order (eventually) if an item is truly sold out.

  45. Brad (The Original) says

    Yeah, it’s usually fishy if something jumps to being “sold out” without first being backordered for a few days. I seem to recall that happening legitimately with a few items in the past, though. I just don’t remember what.

  46. Jon in CT says

    cagcrisp wrote on August 20, 2014 at 4:42 PM:

    If I was Michael I don’t think I would Ever write about it again…

    If you were Michael, you would probably understand how to use English capitalization and the subjunctive mood.

  47. Brad (The Original) says

    Sigh. The English teacher has spoken yet again.

    Come on, Jon. Why are you always picking on typos and other writing errors when you know how much everyone hates it?

  48. VA Rich says

    Hey AK, how does those 8 Unc’s and 8 Proofs for the Baseball HOF $1 Silver Dollars look?

    I fear at this point that Novitex is just recycling rejects, hope that’s not the case for you buddy. There been some incoming from Virginia and where ever Clark lives. haha

    On the topic of BHoFs, those half-dollars in FS/ER PR/MS 70 have been holding there their own, considerable more so that the golds and silver, I find that very interesting.

  49. VA Rich says

    Come on boys and girls.., remember VA Rich’s 3rd Rule of MNB to Live By?

    Brad (The Original) – thinking the $5 5* Unc went out like that, if I recall correctly or was it the ’12 $50 Burnished?

  50. Dan in Fla says

    I hear it time and again hear that the Mint is recycling their coins I just can’t believe it. Why waste their and our time by doing this.

  51. VA Rich says

    Eagle One – have you by chance received your JFK half clads back yet? Just curious as to how you fared.

    Those that are snagging SP-68s are making some serious coin!

  52. VA Bob says

    Dan in Fla – they do it because it it’s an effective way to get rid of product. They throw it out there until it sticks. This methods cost is built into the premiums, so the Mint loses nothing. It’s why I never keep anything mint sealed boxed, nor would ever buy such. I’ll let others take that risk if they desire.

  53. Pittsburgh P says

    Dan in fla how is it wasting the mints time? Get it back, ship it & hope it doesn’t come back… No one knows if they really do or don’t since they won’t come out & say one way or the other but where are they getting theBHoF silvers they are shipping out now?

  54. Clark says

    VaRich–Yes indeed. They are getting 41 silver BHoFs from here in sunny Santa Fe. That I not hurt another poster’s feelings, I’ll pm you with details of how I made sure others would not receive my rejects.

  55. Pittsburgh P says

    Clark if you gashed a scratch through the baseball I hope they charge you for em 🙂 41 rejects huh

    How do you pm someone?

  56. GoldFishin says

    Opened my 2 HOF silver proofs that I received last week….one very nice, I would say perfect, but one very small white spot so close to the rim not really visible….the second had two white spots in bad place in the webbing of the glove in the fields. These were not recycled coins however.

  57. Eagle One says

    @VA Rich

    I’m still waiting for the grades on the first batch of Clad UNCs that I sent to PCGS two weeks ago. I was able to get a second order of 5 more UNC Sets through a friend this week. These coins were in much better condition – no milk spots. I expect much higher grades from the later batch (SP68-69). These coins were sent to PCGS yesterday. I will gladly share the report card with you as soon as I receive it.

  58. MN says

    If the Mint does recycle BHoF Silver (send them back out) the coin/capsule is placed in a new velvet holder as there’s never any dents in the bottom of it, from any previous removal. My 4/7 & 4/9 UNC & Prf orders contained all rejects but they’ve sent out replacements so I’ll see what I get. I would not dare mark the capsules or coins in fear I would not be refunded or shipped “new”.

    My Kennedy Gold return has been acknowledged and a replacement is in stock and reserved but there’s a “hold/held” status on it, even though our cc is fine.

  59. Eagle One says

    PCGS 2014-W 50C Gold 50th Anniversary (PR-69 DCAM, 218) (PR-70 DCAM, 1,191)

    Includes all special labels and First Strikes.

  60. Ikaika says

    @ VA Rich

    Interesting how the seller came up with the 100K figure. In wonder where he got that number from 😉

  61. says

    Captain Overkill makes an excellent point about the US Mint facing competition from other mints around the world, if I’m any example of a collector looking beyond our borders. Before two years ago, my collection was confined to US coins with only a few foreign coin rolls bought merely for their bullion content. Now, I have proof “collector” gold coins from Britain, Australia, the EU, Canada, and the list keeps expanding. The artistry, imagination, and meticulous strikings you see in foreign coins has improved to the point where my grandkids would rather have a Canadian dinosaur coin that glows in the dark than a same-old-same-old silver American eagle any day!

  62. NC_Stacker says

    I wonder what the cancel rate is now since ebay is falling on its face with these coins not selling.

  63. NC_Stacker says

    @MN. Try placing a post it note under the plastic in the container and not on the airtite I always look under them when I get my coins. Just to see if anyone has placed something there or if the plastic shows signs of previous signs of the coin being removed before I got it.

  64. VA Bob says

    NC_Stacker – One would have to assume that many are buying from the Mint to sell on eBay. I would venture that with the coin in hand from online orders as well as the flood of show and Mint store coins, flippers either canceled early on, refused delivery, or took a chance. They probably aren’t currently ordering more.

  65. Jerry Diekmann says

    Sith and Pittsburgh – agree that a RP for next year’s ATB coins makes no sense. The Mint has messed up this series already – coming out with “S” uncirculated coins in 2012, two years after the series debuted. There just doesn’t seem to be any rhyme or reason or thought process at all going on at the Mint. And then, to top it off, the disaster in Rosemont. The word “anticipate” does not seem to exist in the Mint’s vocabulary.

  66. NC_Stacker says

    @VA Bob. Also as the time gets closer to the cutoff of the Early Release the ones that will send to NGC will cancel. For those that will use PCGS will cancel the day of their cut off date.

  67. Small time collector says

    All this talk of returning coins, cherry-picking, potentially damaging public property is boggling my mind.
    It would not surprise me if that practice does not ultimately reflect in higher cost to the customers or the elimination of mint products.
    Way to go guys! and to brag about it, jeesh…

  68. Levi says

    Yeah, ordering more than you intend to keep so you can cherry pick the best and send back the rest is a pretty D-Bag move.

  69. Levi says

    It’s like going to a restaurant and ordering two entrees and sending one back when they come to the table.

  70. Jerry Diekmann says

    Captain Overkill – you are correct in your thinking about the declining sales of uncirculated and proof sets. Way, way back in the 1950s and 1960s these sets sold for not much more than twice FV, and three of the coins were 90% silver. Everything changed beginning in 1965 – the silver was removed from the dime and quarter, and the half dollar now only had 40% silver, less than what the previous quarters had, and even that ended in 1971 for the sets. You could still get 40% Ike dollars through 1976, but 1977 marks the first time ever that the Mint did not produce a silver coin. This went on through 1981 and in 1982 commemorative silver coins werer resurrected, and we have had silver coins, albeit non-circulating, ever since, except fpr 1985 when there were no commem coins issued. In 1992 silver proof sets were again resurrected and we have had them ever since. But by then the price of silver was considerably higher than it was back in the 1950s and 1960s, and the prices of the sets were set much higher in relation to the FV than before. Call it greed, call it business, probably some of both. So, from 1992 on, we have had two different proof sets, one in clad and one in silver, each taking some market share away from the other. Along comes 1999 and now we have four more quarters in each of the two proof sets, plus the mint set and in 2004 and 2005 we got two more nickels. A couple of years later, in 2007, collectors were treated to four more “golden” dollars for the ill-conceived Presidents series. And it’s been that way ever since. Bow there are 28 coins in each of the uncirculated and two proof sets, whereas, back in the old days, there were just five coins. So, just a lot more coins, and higher prices for silver, have combined to drive the prices of the mint sets and proof sets ever higher. Collectors have limited funds and so you have seen a decline in mint and proof sets over the years as the Mint keeps making more and more coins with more and more finishes. I think most collectors are on overload, and they have had to cut down on buying these sets, either in the number they buy each year, or just completely stop buying. It’s a well known fact that most proof and mint sets issued since 1965 have been losers on the after market, especially if you consider inflation. I think you can buy sets from the early 1970s into the 1980s for less than the original price the Mint charged. And to make matters even worse, in terms of beauty, the Mint began lowering the relief ofall coins starting in the early 1990s. Washington wound up with “spaghetti” hair and hollow cheeks, Lincoln’s shoulder was cleaved off, and this “reworking” of the dies really shows up on the JFK half dollar. Compare a recent year JFK coin with one, say in the 1980s, and the difference is striking – no pun intended. The portrait is smaller, the legends have been moved in from the rim, and JFK looks like he is starving with his cheeks caved in. I know the Mint made these changes to lengthen the life of the dies, but it certainly seems unnnecessary in the case of the half dollar, since so few of them have been made now each year for many years. I’m glad the ATB quarters show George Washington as we was first shown back in 1932, but the Mint would have done everyone a big favor if they had used Laura Gardin Fraser’s rendition of Washington instead of this tired old John Flanagan model. For those who want to see what Fraser’s superior portrait looked like, it was resurrected for the 1999 $5.00 gold coin marking the 200th anniversary of Washington’s death.

    There you go – I hope that helps everyone to understand the history a little better.

  71. NC_Stacker says

    So STC and Levi when you go to the food store you always pick the first loaf of bread without checking for freshness or checking the expiration date. Or the same while looking for cuts of meat to fit the quality of meat that you like.. Do you take the first meat package you see?

    Don’t hate the player hate the game. They are playing by the mint’s rules.

    If for any reason within 7 days of receiving your product you are dissatisfied with your purchase, return the entire product for refund or replacement. Shipping charges will not be refunded.

  72. MN says

    I placed several small BHoF orders, wanting 5 of each Silver but I will be lucky to get 1 of each due to receiving flawed coins. The coins should be free of plain eyesight issues and why not want the best?

  73. Small time collector says

    ncs, re-read my post. First, there are no parallels between ordering a coin from the mint and buying food. try going to a car dealership and ordering two cars and taking the better (in your eyes). It may be the last car you buy there. Dissatisfactio?, I’m calling b.s. it’s a intentional ploy and costs us all. When the audits are done and special offerings are moneylosers, the mint will go back to stamping out clad circulated coins.
    I have not been here long and did not expect to observe what I have. If you go back a a couple weeks in this blog you will find numerous posts about ordering more than one intends to keep. There are also posts of returning “this dog” (the kennedy) relating to the slim chance of making a profit. I’d be surprised if the owner of this blog condones these activities. The bottom line is we all pay for a segment to abuse a liberal policy offered by OUR government. Go ahead, I won’t be quiet if you or anyone else puts their hand in my pocket.

  74. A&L Futures says

    @ Jon in CT

    I was on USAJobs earlier today, and I too came across that listing. Too bad I didn’t live a little further north.

    @ VA Rich

    I choose the Ferrari (LOL)

  75. Bob R says

    Returned 3 BHOF $1 Unc last week, looked like they had red rust spots on them. Called CS and was told there are no more so I would be refunded. Well low and behold just received notice my 3 replacement BHOF $1 Unc was shipped today…this will be very interesting to say the least.

  76. NC_Stacker says

    STC I understand your comments, and yes it is taking money from us. However when they set the rules and someone games the system who’s fault is that?

    The difference is that this is business that is run by the government. If it was a private mint they would spend the money that is wasted on returns and invest it in increasing their quality controls thus the amount of returns would decrease. But since the mint is run with our money what is the true incentive? Making an exceptional product or just pump out products.

  77. Small time collector says

    ncs, like heck, they would never do it that way, send coins out for approval!?!
    Any losses to a private mint would be written off, we don’t want to get into that discussion.
    All I am citing is I’m surprised how common this practice is (here, everywhere?). I posted this prior, I can see mint implementing measures to to reduce the opportunity for abuse. I don’t believe they intend a “submitted for consideration” policy. Abusing the liberal policy will bring change then the abusers will have something else about the mint to gripe on.
    I understand returns for quality issues (I’ve had two returns in over 30 years (greasy thumbprint on a s pr dollar and a loose dime in a 92 special collectible mint set).
    Now, how about the guys that are buying the 5 family limit (in their, their adult daughter, friend, neighbor, whomever, name) and upon seeing the price trend on ebay cancelling all the orders?
    Lastly, what does the mint do with returned sets? Are some dealers allowed lots of returned coins, are they re-melted, etc., etc., whatever is happening to them (marred or not) they are likely sold at melt value at best. Some may be the very coins we see on the ‘bay. Another cost to US. I’m not interested in that kind of game, and I remain surprised.

  78. Tinto says

    @ClevelandRocks

    “2013 Mint set NOT sold out….again”

    That in a nutshell is how the Mint operates it seems, no decisiveness, pandering to certain groups like big dealers, yet getting very well paid. And forget the “left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing”, looks like the individual fingers on each hand don’t know what the other is doing.

    Maybe they got alerted by Michael’s blog …again.

  79. Small time collector says

    p.s. I wonder how much integrity prevails when the required return step “To return your product, use the reverse side of your packing slip to let us know why you decided to return your item(s)” is completed?

  80. NC_Stacker says

    STC. The mint could implement what some department stores do for returns. They have a list of all customers that make returns. If the buy/keep to return ratio goes over x then they are not allowed to return the product(s)

  81. VA Bob says

    STC has a point, some people do buy more to cherry pick the best and return the rest. It may be for nothing more than eye appeal. NC_Stacker also makes a good point that those that do that are playing inside the Mints rules. It was mentioned a long time ago on this blog that the Mint may take note of customers that make excessive returns. I don’t know if that’s true or not.

    I can’t be responsible for what other might do. I order what I want for my collection or for a gift, no more. If I get a dog with visible imperfections, I’ll return it for a replacement. I know that some people flip to support their hobby or other endeavors, not crazy about the practice, but there are worse things in life. We all just need to know that different people see this hobby in many different ways. No one can claim the correct way to navigate this hobby. I will continue to say what I believe is good or bad for the hobby, but it’s just my opinion, and no one is required to follow a word of my advice.

  82. ABC says

    What if a collector orders expensive coins for a given number of years and he decided that he had to return most of them for replacements because the coins had very noticeable flaws on them? And if the mint decided to blacklist him, what do you suppose he’s going to do? He’s going to buy what he needs from the secondary market. And that’s going to take his business away from the mint. The mint doesn’t want that. The only fair way to do it would be to make it count against the customer if the returned coin had no obvious flaws under magnification. But you know that’s a slippery slope since grading is subjective.
    The profit margin for the mint’s products is large enough to accommodate returns. Also, not everyone knows they can get reimbursed for the return shipping. So I think the mint will do just fine with the number of returns it has to deal with.

  83. VA Bob says

    ABC – I believe the return thing is where there is no defect, just a return for no particular reason. Not sure if one can request replacements with this type of return.

  84. Small time collector says

    abc, right! the secondary market holds whatever quality a collector may want and may actually result in a lower cost to the collector once their time (cost) is factored in.
    I’ve noticed similar tactics by others I personally know (inc. a brother) that are so driven to get something for less than par before they truly feel good. It’s ironic to me that once item x, y, or z is in the bag, they are off on their next exploit. The amount of time devoted to such quests and what is done (and not done) to reach their goals is astonishing to me.
    I guess I’m sort of in the same boat awaiting the kennedy set, maybe 5, to keep, unless they are fubarred.

  85. VA Rich says

    Small time collector – allow me to spell something out for you because you’re embarrassing yourself.

    On the this blog, there are many posters that have been out here quite some time that provide invaluable insight, help each other, have developed rapport and friendship on this blog. And FINALLY, there is an element of underlying jest and cheeky humor that goes on to keep things lite, and most commenters get that.

    I made the reference to the JKF coin as “this dog” and giving the HMS Titanic a run for her money..blub, blub, blub – & I’m probably not done – the thing you DON’T GET is that these were made in jest going back to some themes that I’m not going to explain and that started weeks ago.

    The problem with posters like you and Jus this that you don’t bother to go back read the history of comments on this blog, you don’t understand certain individual’s perspective, nor appreciate some of the underlying relationship and humor out here.

    So GO BACK and READ COMMENTS from 04 August and then hopefully you will GET IT.

    And stop taking things for face value, stop taking pop shots, and please – lighten up! Thank you!

  86. VA Rich says

    mark – I broke it up into 4 to 5 sections of a few sentences each for ya! 😉

    A&L – I hear ya, maybe that cold one will work out this time around in Baltimore. While a ways off, I’m planning on taking that Friday off.

    MN – did you receive an email from the mint that they received your JFKs? Mine arrived on Monday at 1 pm, and my account doesn’t show receipt of anything yet. Thanks

  87. A&L Futures says

    @ VA Rich – I’ll hold you to it.

    (FYSA) HRC just approved my retirement (after 21.5 years of AFS), so I should be able to take leave IOT meet you there. Time to try something new.

  88. bg35765 says

    The mint should have just left it sold out to spare them the embarrassment.

    I do look forward to Michael’s future headline: “2013 Mint Set Sells Out for the Third Time”.

  89. Small time collector says

    I counted, I believe 4 sentences. Thank you for reading, as I have read this blog for awhile prior to participating.
    No uptight here. Again, I remain surprised by the upstanding tactics by some here. That is all. Let the pillaging continue. (5)

  90. ClevelandRocks says

    Look forward to Michael’s update on why the UNCs keep “selling out”, only to be in stock days later. Michael: please consider old format. It was much better!

  91. Clark says

    Virginias Bob & Rich–Your responses to STS were well done.

    I won’t repeat my previous pointed posts on just how foul it is for the Mint to be selling returned merchandise as “new,” but it is worth saying that the Mint’s return policy is only “liberal” to those who primarily shop at local brick and mortar stores. My wife and I purchase almost everything, except food and bev, from Amazon Prime, which has a popular return policy identical to the Mint’s. Amazon is a wildly successful non-gov’t enterprise that, like the Mint, relies on repeat business from happy customers. A happy customer is one who receives exactly what was advertised, not someone else’s defective junk. The Mint doesn’t do everything right, but its return policy is consistent with those of other successful online merchants.

  92. says

    Jerry,

    If you’re still watching the thread, I appreciate the detailed response. What you said pretty much confirms my suspicion about what happened with the annual sets. Thanks!

  93. says

    BHOF Proof Clads. I had 1 order in on 06/15 for Proofs that has been ‘scheduled for shipment 08/22’ that just went IS&R today. I had another Order on 07/14 that Had shown the same that also went IS&R today.

    Things are Moving on…

  94. Pittsburgh P says

    Clark… My wife & I use Amazon Prime often also but have you noticed packages come smashed alot?

    As VaRich said you do know we joke alot here right… Hope you haven’t taken some of my comments literally… I say return on but I hope you were also joking about scratching the baseballs! sacrilege I say

  95. MN says

    @VA Rich

    My K15 return arrived at the Mint on Monday. Return information appeared on my Mint account (August 5th order line) 8/20 and I got its “return/credit” email from the Mint last evening. My replacement is still on “Hold” and my cc has nothing deducted for the pending charge though the account is in good standing.

    2014 KENNEDY ANNIVERSARY GOLD COIN 2 $1,240.00 $2,480.00 2 units shipped on 08/13/2014, 1 units returned
    2014 KENNEDY ANNIVERSARY UNC CLAD SET 2 $9.95 $19.90 2 units backordered. Expected to ship on 09/02/2014.
    2014 KENNEDY ANNIVERSARY GOLD COIN 1 $1,240.00 $1,240.00 In stock and reserved

  96. Brad (The Original) says

    Maybe a hacker figured out how to get into the Mint’s website and mark the U13 as sold out as a little prank. The Mint then wonders “Why aren’t we getting any online orders for the U13?” They then discover it’s showing as “sold out” and have to go in and fix it.

    Don’t take it seriously, I’m only joking. I know it’s just some sort of internal glitch or error. If it WERE a hacker, I’m sure they would pick something a little more fun to tamper with, like say the Kennedy Gold Proof Coin. Everyone would freak out then, and eBay prices would soar! 🙂

  97. stephen m says

    O.T. ,It appears the big slide in gold and silver spot prices may be starting now. I haven’t been into coin collecting to have seen this scenario before and am most interested in seeing how lower spot prices will affect the coins on the market. Also I will welcome lower gold prices so maybe I can make a gold purchase if it drops far enough. I did make gold proof eagle purchases from the mint in 2001&2002, a 4 piece proof set. After cutting back to a single 1oz proof AGE in 2003 the price was too high for me. Affordable gold may be on the way back for some of us.

  98. Brad (The Original) says

    We’re off to a GREAT start for a gold coin price drop next week with today’s fixes of $1,280.50 and $1,275.25. We still have the hurdle of next Wednesday’s pm fix having to be below $1,300, though. Just because the spot price is sliding today doesn’t mean it will hold for a week. Let’s hope it does.

  99. Ikaika says

    @ Stephen m

    Agree. After gold prices increased in the late 2000’s, it became more difficult to keep up with some of the gold coins. I am certain the FS series was affected by this. Of course the ugliness of the designs did not help the cause. But lets hope we get a good drop in spot prices in the near future.

  100. Small time collector says

    stephen m
    I agree. Only segments of increased gold demand in Q2 – 2014 is investments and central bank purchases.
    Decreases in gold demand from China and India, with increasing demand in US and GB. I think the next two Quarters will be interesting to watch.

  101. VA Bob says

    In the 90’s when gold was <$300 an oz. the 4 coin AGE sets were still over $900 each. Lower gold will be good for bullion stackers though., not so much for numismatic offerings.

  102. Clark says

    @NC_Stacker–LOL! Maybe it will arrive fresh when Amazon has a turbo drone airlift it to your home the same day you order it.

    @Pitts–I always appreciate your humor. I haven’t yet noticed a smashed box from Amazon, but this summer the boys at Novitex/USPS flattened one of those empty boxes with a BHoF bag inside pretty good. (I signed for it.) And, of course I didn’t mark the coins I returned: they already had glaring defects visible to the naked eye, which is why the Mint should never have recirculated them in the first place. We collectors, even we who like 68s and 69s, are a picky bunch. We pay a lot for these gems so I punch hard when apologists for the Mint try to convince us that poor quality practices are acceptable.

  103. Jerry Diekmann says

    Mark – I wonder if you realize how presumptous andidiotic your statement about reading just 4 or 5 sentences – the rest is rambling – sounds? I guess you don’t read books, newspapers, magazines, poems, instructions, , or anything that might take more than a minute of your precious time. That says a lot about how interested you are in learning, which is a trait of intelligence in human beings.

  104. Brad (The Original) says

    Clark,

    I see you never did comprehend what I was saying, but I’ll try one more time. I am certainly NOT an “apologist” for the Mint, or feel that poor quality practices are acceptable. I was simply imploring YOU not to deliberately deface coins that were not acceptable to you, but may be perfectly fine for someone else on the waitlist. What part of that is not clear to you? Everyone else who chimed in seemed to understand. Maybe you were just blinded by rage.

  105. Clark says

    BO-You are a fool and an apologist for the Mint. Your points incoherently jumped around. Go bother someone else.

  106. Brad (The Original) says

    Clark,

    Obviously we’re approaching this from different perspectives and will never see eye to eye on it, so I give up. The important thing is you didn’t deface the coins before sending them back, so kudos on that.

    Notice too that despite your attack on me, I didn’t stoop to your level and resort to name calling. I’ve been around here a lot longer than you have, and have earned a degree of respect from a lot of the other regulars. I always maintain a degree of professionalism. I probably should just have left your threat of defacing the coins alone and never even addressed it. I guess I just couldn’t believe that a fellow coin collector would even consider being that selfish.

  107. Pittsburgh P says

    Jerry I like to leern… Seriously I do enjoy your posts. If some don’t want to read long posts it’s their right just like it is yours to write what you need to to get your point accross.

    No need to aurgue fellas. Clark I am a picky person in general – when it comes to coins if my capsule is scratched I’m searchin for a new one 😉
    I see both your points so its time to move on… I’ll buy you both a beer or a sody pop if you come out to the Baltimore show

  108. MarkH says

    Jerry-this particular Mark read your incredibly lengthy post with great interest. Please do keep posts like that coming. It’s much easier to read a brief history in one longer post than try to piece it together by reading 10 comments in different blog areas.
    Mark H, in the mountains of Va.

  109. MarkH says

    Jerry-I hope you understand I was employing a little bit of sarcasm on the “incredibly” bit. I really did enjoy your post.
    MarkH

  110. Jerry Diekmann says

    Hi, Mark H – I send some fairly long blogs to answer other blogger’s questions, in this case Captain Overkill. My knowledge is based on over 50 years of collecting and I’m happy to share what I have learned over the past half century. Thank you for appreciating what I wrote. Some people will say it’s pontificating (which it is not) and some other people seem to have the attention span of a gnat and who seem to think all knowledge should be encapsulized and summarized for them to digest in 4 or 5 sentences. Maybe it works that way for some of the instant gratification troglodytes out there with attention deficit syndromes, but fortunately most people (Thank God!) are not like that. If the blog is too long, don’t read it! Don’t send me a birthday card! Don’t send me a Christmas card! Don’t vote for me – sorry, I’m not running for any office. Just go away. The answer the other Mark gave was as stupid a comment as I have heard in quite awhile. The definition of stupidity is choosing to remain ignorant when you have the opportunity to learn, and then telling everyone about it. Case closed, as far as I’m concerned.

  111. MarkH says

    Jerry-As I said before, keep ’em coming. I have been doing a lot of research into the moderns recently. Pricing, grades, impact of various levels on price, and how the coins are distributed by the mint. One of my best sources has been this blog.
    One thing I noticed is that some dealers are offering moderns (both proofs and uncirc) at spot +. Hmm. Not much of a collector’s premium there.
    Another is that barring a very low mintage eventually there is no real premium for the moderns. There are a couple of exceptions, the 2001 Buffalo silver dollar being a case in point. So I don’t think the BHoF coins will be enjoying huge premiums down the road.
    I believe the Kennedy gold issue will enjoy some premium but it will not be based on the mintage…there were too many made already. The silver could be another thing entirely-it all depends on how many they make. I bought both the clad Kennedy’s and the gold from the mint and would not entertain paying any more than the mint price for the gold based on some sticker. Those that do will see whatever extra they paid evaporate eventually. (This does not take into account possible gold appreciation).
    My general rule of thumb is: Buy modern proof in OGP only. Buy slabs in the uncirc. coins and target grade at MS69. Seriously, if you need a magnifying glass to determine grade then where does the circus end? My MS70 at 10X vs. your MS70+ at 20X magnification? What would a scanning electron microscope MS70+++ fetch?
    Since I like both versions of the ATB 5oz coins I buy the vapor -P issues from the mint and the bullion coins slabbed at MS69.

    MarkH

  112. John Q. Coinage says

    Gheesh sold out, not sold out, another total cramming from YOUR US Mint….make up your firggin mind, they sell out Pres $1 bags in lilke 2 weeks & keep the dogs back & forth to PT us….I have to ask: “Can we REALLY trust what the mint says…ever?”

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