2013 West Point Silver Eagle Set Sales Conclude at 281,310

set1A surge of late orders has pushed the sales total for the 2013 West Point Silver Eagle Set to 281,310 according to an update made to the sales counter placed on the product page. This positions the set as the highest mintage of all anniversary themed American Eagle sets that have been offered.

The US Mint began accepting orders for the 2013 West Point Silver Eagle Sets on May 9, 2013. Initial demand for the special sets containing reverse proof and enhanced uncirculated coins was strong enough to cause website issues and drive sales to more than 180,000 after the opening weekend.

The pace of sales subsided for much of the four week ordering window, with the pace picking up during the final days of availability. The last update reflecting the final day of sales showed an increase of 29,615 bringing the overall total to 281,310 units. The complete sales data for the four week ordering window is shown below.

Date Increase Total
5/10/2013 138,514 138,514
5/13/2013 44,259 182,773
5/14/2013 4,768 187,541
5/15/2013 4,185 191,726
5/16/2013 1,926 193,652
5/17/2013 3,082 196,734
5/20/2013 3,068 199,802
5/21/2013 4,299 204,101
5/22/2013 2,125 206,226
5/23/2013 974 207,200
5/24/2013 1,525 208,725
5/28/2013 5,486 214,211
5/29/2013 3,130 217,341
5/30/2013 2,638 219,979
5/31/2013 3,000 222,979
6/3/2013 8,521 231,500
6/4/2013 1,778 233,278
6/5/2013 9,948 243,226
6/6/2013 8,469 251,695
6/7/2013 29,615 281,310

Once again, the US Mint cautions that this data is and “approximation” and “for informational purposes only and should not be construed to represent accepted orders or actual sales figures”. Last year, there was a significant adjustment to the last reported sales figure for the San Francisco Set, so material changes certainly  are possible. I will pass along any subsequent updates to the West Point sales data that are provided by the US Mint.

Previously released anniversary themed American Silver Eagle numismatic sets have included:

  • The 2006 20th Anniversary Set which contained uncirculated, proof, and reverse proof coins and had a final audited mintage of 248,875.
  • The 2011 25th Anniversary Set, which contained uncirculated (S & W mint marks), proof, reverse proof, and bullion coins, sold out of the product limit of 100,000.
  • The 2012 San Francisco Set, which contained proof and reverse proof coins with the S mint mark. The last reported figure on the sales odometer was 251,302, which was subsequently adjusted to 224,981.


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Comments

  1. JBK says

    I was part of the surge – three separate orders for a single set each over the course of the last few days or ordering.

    I think the enhanced finish coin will give this set a broader appeal, especially among those who like things like the colorized Canadian coins and Perth Mint stuff.

  2. high low silver says

    Wonder if this will push last day order shipping into early October. I ordered 4pm yesterday

  3. george glazener says

    Of course, if Silver keeps tanking, these coins won’t be worth much at all…

  4. Erik H says

    I think a lot of speculators added to the last minute push. You can order hundreds of coins with no money up front then wait to see what the secondary market looks like when the coins actually ship out in late September. If prices are inflated you can take delivery and make a few bucks. If prices are low, then cancel your order.

    It’s a no risk opportunity that many people took last year and that’s why the final 2012 numbers dropped. I’m sure we’ll see a drop in the final numbers as well this year.

  5. george glazener says

    Yep, that’s what I did. God give me the wisdom to know when to hold ’em, or when to fold ’em….

  6. Dan in Fla says

    I’m just happy I got my order in early and do not have to wait all summer to see these beauties in person. All three of my orders will now ship 6/17/13. This is during a lull in the schedule and hopefully I can afford them. That is one time I do not want my credit card to bounce my order. Tomorrow is another day George. Hang in there.

  7. george glazener says

    Which brings me back to good old Lucy Hayes UNC. Why might it be that I never see this coin offered on eBay in OGP? Too rare, or too little collector interest?

  8. Dan says

    I like the look of the coin and I did order a set, but I just dont see how there will be any real secondary value with even just 250,000 sets sold strictly to a collector base. In addition it sounds like many collectors purchased numerous sets so I just dont see them ever being scarce or rare in high grade, even 100 years from now. I think it will take a huge surge in collectors to absorb the sets that will be out there.

  9. fmtransmitter says

    @ george:

    If it is gold, because gold is down? silver is tanking hard..

  10. fmtransmitter says

    Looks like the MINT will make a MINT on this one..I don’t care what London says about the SPOT price of an ounce of silver, try and buy one for that..Why I love eBay, it represents the true FREE market of items. Still sells for around $1 a gram all day and night long…

  11. Jim_D says

    Based on last year’s final numbers going from 251,000 to 225,000, the final number dropped a little over 10%. Using that same percentage could give a final number for the current set that matches the initial number from last year or even a little higher.

    The real difference this year is that some people won’t have to wait as long initially to get their sets. Speculators could dump quickly if initial reactions to the quality of the coins don’t meet expectations. The 139,000 first day orders totally spooked me into waiting.

  12. EvilFlipper says

    Good reasoning JimD. I’m going to take a risk here and wait to see what the secondary market looks like. I didn’t order one at all yet and all I really want is the New burnished finish coin. If the secondary market drops along with the price of silver I might get it for cheaper. Still too high a number to make much of a difference on the secondary market. I know it’s a risk buuuut I think it will be worth trying. In any event I’ll pay less for the burnished coin alone anyway!

  13. Jag-Nut says

    Silver is tanking, the total minted is on the high side so PLEASE, PLEASE everyone out there who bought more then one set, go ahead and CANCEL your order now!

    This is a no win situation! You Must Cancel Now and please encourage all of your friends to do the same!

    If you are an investor, cancel your orders and continue to invest in the Hockey Pucks! You can’t go wrong!

    By the way guys, for those who are planning on returning your WP sets for a refund after you receive them the Mint is fixing to drop the price based on the current market so you won’t even get a full refund! Sooooooooo, cancel now, don’t take that chance!

    Please note that this is a PSA for the ASE Club of America!

  14. Tim says

    Next year I want a fractional set!!! 1oz, half oz, quarter oz, and tenth oz! UHR finish would not hurt my feelings either!!!

  15. Dan in Fla says

    That’s what I like about this blog and America. You can say whatever you want and not be censored.

  16. Ray says

    most people i know who ordered, spaced their estimated delivery times out, and over ordered with every intention to cancel the orders and timing which suits their finances. confident we’ll see a huge drop in that final #. i know i’ll be dropping 2 of my orders, which each had 2 sets. that equates to 25% of my orders.

  17. Samuel says

    how painful the mint will be, when they face tens of thousands of returns/cancellation. it is a waste of money/energy/resource. next yr, i bet mint will implement some measure to stop this kind of thing.

  18. JBK says

    They tried to do a good thing and add the order counter, but maybe next year they will drop that and/or revise the cxl/return policy. If no one knew how many coins were ordered until after the dust setlled, they might be less inclined to cxl.

  19. Wes says

    I preferred the 2011 set with the ordering limits of five sets per household. Guessing most of the orders on the first day were large orders from dealers that will flood the secondary market.

  20. CW says

    @Samuel. I agree. I think it is shameful and indicative of the acceptance of both government and private waste.

  21. fmtransmitter says

    Sooo, I just spent hours reading about how the RCM is ‘stamping” large denominations on coins of silver to sell for ‘face’ value and how if you try to redeem them for ‘face’ value at the bank you will be instructed to tell the Teller to call the Mint to get the procedure to submit them back to the mint and get fiat in exchange. Six months I read was the waiting period. Screw me once, shame on you, RCM, screw me twice, shame on me. I started with bullion and am going to go back to bullion, unless I have a sure winner. It’s all a gamble…

  22. fmtransmitter says

    Simply give us $100 of your hard earned cash and we’ll give you $100 worth of silver coin, SEE it even says it on it!! Bffff…

  23. Hawkster says

    JBK,
    I tend to agree with you. The daily counter for the last two years’ sets actually works against the Mint, as customers are able to better gauge whether it is worth holding on to their orders or cancelling them. For the Mint to minimize cancellations, it would be best for them to not release mintage figures until all the sets have been shipped and the cancellation time period has expired. This would probably also have the effect of partially preventing pure speculators/flippers from driving up the mintage numbers.

    Jag-Nut,
    Are you offering your advice to cancel all but one WP set as a public service announcement, or more as a self-serving attempt to drive down the total mintage and potentially increase the long-term value of your sets? I guess I am asking if you will take your own advice.

  24. stephen m says

    I went overboard with this set but if i still have them in later years(60’s now) they will go to the kids or grand kids. Maybe somebody in my brood will be a coin hound. This set may be the high mintage out of the four sets, 20th anni, 25th anni.,SF and WP sets.

  25. Jon in CT says

    The Mint could easily solve its return/cancellation problem on mint-to-order offerings like this if they actually DID mint-to-order each day during the offering period. At day’s end the Mint marks each of the day’s new orders as “In process.” The next day it strikes the units ordered and removes the “Cancel Order” option. The coins and packaging are united at PBGS’s facility in Indiana a couple of days later, where they’re packaged and shipped to customers within a week of the order.

    Everyone wins.

  26. simon says

    OT:

    FM Tx : My LESPS did come in – the coins are ALL pristine; no complaints – the staff appear to have hastily assembled the final sets and the coins are not seated flush in the coin slots. I shouldn’t do this but I am tempted to try to take the plastic cover off and use a soft teflon probe to gently straighten out the coins.

  27. nick says

    SIMON- Same here, ordered 2 sets, both have jumbled coins. One set has a flat mark on an edge. Have to send that back. not sure if I should send both back?

  28. fmtransmitter says

    @simon:

    Thank you for that. I suspected they are working OT over there with all these new products coming out. If you can get the cover off w/o damage I would say go for it. They are not hermetically sealed liked a slabbed coin, I believe. I have seen those cheap capsules used for ASE’s and older versions always seem to have toning around the edges. I replace all mine with air tight’s and put them back in their OGP. Thanks again, can’t wait to get mine. That was the best set of the year price wise for what you got IMO. Enjoy your treasure.

  29. fmtransmitter says

    @nick:

    Thanks for your comment also! As I was suspecting, these possibly were returns re-issued for sale. Hope mine are gem’s…Hmm…Either way I am sure you could put them on eBay and actually make money on them, even now. RP is always in demand. If you are not happy, get your money back while you can before saturation of these.Obviously disclose the flat mark on the edge in your description to cover yourself in event buyer is not happy.

  30. Boz says

    250,000 shipped this afternoon. Rest ship on Monday. All credit card charges were processed by midnight last night. Too late now to cancel, sorry.

  31. says

    dont’ look now, but hsn is selling its 2012 s mint proof set for 149.95, which i believe was the same price the mint sold it for last year. i guess they are just happy to sell them at no profit. pg

  32. thePhelps says

    simon – I got my set back in January and one coin was loose inside the enclosure… the coins were perfect so I opened the plastic cover and seated the coin.

  33. fmtransmitter says

    @paulg:

    No reverse proof eagle in that set. Just ONE eagle. That would have been nice though…

  34. simon says

    I will try to straighten out the set. The ASE proof is a real shiny gem with no blemish. It would be remiss if I left a print on it …

  35. Hawkster says

    Hey Boz:
    250,000 of what shipped this afternoon? Unfortunately, not the WP sets.

  36. ann says

    Don’t know about Boz’s comment, but there is a very Strong possibility
    WP sets will be shipped much earlier then is expected. I heard this
    from a little birdy.

  37. Silver Sam says

    Anybody have an estimate of what percentage of 25th Anniversary ASE Sets remain ungraded in original OGP? I guess it to be 50%.

  38. fmtransmitter says

    @Silver Sam:

    Population reports of all 3 major grading companies would be a rough estimate. I do not have access to that data. Maybe another Member on here would.

  39. fmtransmitter says

    @simon:

    Was a bit of a joke..wishful thinking..

    Boz was joking too I believe..

  40. fmtransmitter says

    @ann:

    A little birdie once told me little birdies tell lies…go figure..

  41. Silver Sam says

    I don’t have access to those population
    reports but surely would appreciate someone’s input…thanks!

  42. Don says

    Silver Sam:

    100% of my 2011’s are still in OGP–and will remain that way as long as I’m still kicking.

  43. simon says

    My 2011 25th Anniv Sets and in fact all my mint purchased sets and coins are in OGP.

    FM Tx : I am looking forward to collecting these are a set as long as they are issued. I wonder why the Mint didn’t think of starting this issue format in 1999 with the State Quarters program. I would have opted for it instead of the normal annual Ag proof set.

  44. fmtransmitter says

    @simon:

    earlier u stated u would hate finger prints. I bought a bag of cotton gloves off eBay. Never ever touch your proofs with bare fingers. Those gloves are cheap and used by all the coin handlers.

    They didn’t start this set because they wanted to make more money OR thought of ANOTHER way to make more money. You choose..lol

  45. fmtransmitter says

    @Silver Sam:

    I would guess only 10-15% graded. Many collectors prefer OGP Mint products however the grading companies are seeing the high premiums people are willing to pay for slabbed and are hard at work figuring out new ways to sell their coins. It is a way for big dealers to charge premiums and there are several other benefits to having graded sets. Homer breaks in and takes raw coins and graded coins. Homer goes to pawn shop or coin dealer. Homer sells coins. Raws are gone. Graded can be traced. Homer breaks graded out of slabs and sells, homer gets much less cash for them. Homer is a thief and greedy. Homer keeps them in slab and sells them. You get your coins back because they have registered to YOU. Just one many scenarios. Slabs are great for old coins, 19th century and earlier. Helps with the fakes being made in China. etc. That is a big topic that could be discussed for days.

  46. Gary says

    My 5 2011 25th Anniversary Sets minted at 100K just keep looking better and better and better every year! hahahahahahahahahaha!

  47. Shutter says

    Population reports of all 3 major grading companies would be a rough estimate. I do not have access to that data. Maybe another Member on here would.

    Judging by the reverse proof (some of which were submitted without being part of the set), NGC got 29,853 and PCGS got 17,453. Some quantity went to 2nd tier graders, and some number were submitted to more than one grader. So 50,000 is a good guess.

    For comparison, NGC graded over 51,000 reverse proofs in 2006 and over 41,000 in 2012. I expects at least 50,000 this year.

  48. fmtransmitter says

    @Shutter:

    Seems about 25% graded. Thanks for the information.

    @ann

    Fat chance-US Mint knows their number now and won’t pass on that kind of profit again, hence the new “version” being released and re-release of RP version. They want and WILL make what people will pay for and scrap what people won’t pay a premium for. Heck, I bought the Birthday 3 lense boxes, set of 3 just because it was the first year they made them! lol I figure I can find lenses w/out OGP on eBay and use the boxes as gifts. Of course it was sent with another order so not to not pay extra S&H.

  49. fmtransmitter says

    BTW-If you have cable and can search up History Channel MANKIND DECODED-LUST FOR LUXURY it is a wonderful adaptation of the Story of US and goes into detail what man used for trade BEFORE coins. Silk and Pepper. Awsome series.

  50. Dave says

    In reference to the posting on June 07, at 5:20 p.m.; sounds like it should be, “Numb,” not “Jag.” Oops — sorry, my fingers have Tourette’s Syndrome.

  51. John says

    Personally I don’t care how many sets were sold or canceled. I ordered 1 from the mint and 2 graded, one from each NGC and PCGS. I just collect coins because I enjoy them. I have no plans to ever sell any and if I did i’m sure I will take a loss on them as is with most hobbies.

  52. EDDIE says

    HEY GEORGE
    Dan in Fla says:
    June 7, 2013 at 4:05 pm
    I’m just happy I got my order in early and do not have to wait all summer to see these beauties in person. All three of my orders will now ship 6/17/13. This is during a lull in the schedule and hopefully I can afford them. That is one time I do not want my credit card to bounce my order. Tomorrow is another day George. Hang in

  53. Rich says

    Anyone that ordered early on 09 May for the WP ASE set have your credit card pinged yet?

  54. vaughnster says

    @Rich–Credit cards won’t ping until next week. Orders from that day still have the option to cancel and are “in process.”

  55. Dustyroads says

    I don’t care if this mintage is higher, it should go down in history as a great set. I purchased one in the first hour and one in the last, if the first set has problems I’ll have another chance, if I am not in a cash crunch when the second set comes in I’ll keep them both.

  56. joe says

    It’s highly probable it will end up below 250K mintage. There’s a lot of time between now and the end of September; I expect a lot of cancellations.

  57. Eddie says

    Now the long wait begins. I really can’t wait to get this set. WOW it should be beautiful. If they make other sets in the future that would be great because isn’t that what coin coin collecting is all about?

  58. jayarejr says

    The Mint needs to return to the policy of limiting orders to one per household, with mintage limits in the 100K range, to put an end to this out of control speculating by people who have no appreciation for the coins themselves. The Mint also needs to stop creating all these knockoffs and special sets which are little more than tweaks of existing sets, and selling them for exorbitant premiums (even given what silver premiums are today). The Mint is supposed to be taking care of the collector, not the speculator.

  59. Rich says

    Thanks vaughnster; I’m hoping to see some cc activity on my day two order next week as well

  60. high low silver says

    How can Provident sell the 5oz perry unc for $128 and the Mint is selling for $179 ? The puck was only released 2 days ago.

  61. vaughnster says

    Provident is selling the bullion version. The Mint is selling the numismatic version. I just bought a bullion Perry ATB from Provident yesterday.

  62. Don says

    e,
    They should do a Denver set of what? If you mean a silver eagle set, which would presumably include proofs, Denver is not set up to do these type of sets. If they did attempt to produce these sets at the Denver facility, they would need to bring in the proper equipment as well as educate its employees on manufacturing collector quality coins.

    I’m not sure I would want to see Special ASE sets made at Denver because the quality would probably not be that good. The collector ASE’s from West Point are the best because of the years of experience its employees have had in making them. Last year’s SF silver eagle sets had quality issues because the proofs had not been made there for many years. It was a re-learning experience on their part.

  63. fmtransmitter says

    @Don

    Exactly why I bought a graded PF70 set in this issue. The retro black holders just make these gem’s pop so beautifully.

  64. Dan in Fla says

    I hope to see movement on my West Point Set charges in 2 weeks. That would be on the day of shipment 6/18/13 ten days from now. Any earlier and I will be in trouble.

  65. fmtransmitter says

    @Gary

    Have you had any of your 2011’s graded? If so what did they grade out at?

  66. Silver Sam says

    fmtransmitter..

    Where did you purchase 70 grade of WP ASE set in retro black holders?

    Thanks in advance

    I think those black holders are gorgeous!

  67. simon says

    Dusty :

    Very nice article and video. Really enjoyed the video in particular. My 2c : I’ve been wishing / wanting the Gov to restart the old retired mints ( O / CC / D ) and operate them as special presses for special issues. It would help reduce the unemployment figure and keep us collectors very-very happy 😉

  68. Dan in Fla says

    I saw a coin show (AAN) that airs on Dish and they had a star label and a black (retro) set for sale at 280 a set for 70’s and 189.99 for 69’s.

  69. Dan in Fla says

    NGC was the grader who used the retro black core again. The one that was limited to 2012 only and from October to December.

  70. stephen m says

    Silver Sam , Goldmart is the cheapest i’ve seen @239.99 for the 70 graded set. Moderncoinmart is the highest of the ones mentioned here.

  71. charles says

    Dan, I noticed that too about the retro holder. NGC must be taking lessons from the Mint.

  72. Silver Sam says

    Goldmart is appreciably less expensive. How are they to deal with?
    Thanks…

  73. Silver Sam says

    281310…Hmmmm….I believe with cancellations, returns, and cc’s unable to cover amounts when due including expired cards, that the final tally will be definitely under 250000…

  74. Shutter says

    The Mint needs to return to the policy of limiting orders to one per household, with mintage limits in the 100K range

    Whatever restrictions the mint puts in place, the big dealers will still be able to acquire the inventory they need. The only possible outcome of such restrictions is that average collectors will not be able to buy directly from the mint and will have to pay exorbitant prices on the secondary market.

    put an end to this out of control speculating by people who have no appreciation for the coins themselves.

    It is the artificial restrictions that are most responsible for creative incentives to speculate.

  75. Samuel says

    WRT goldmart, i once ordered a sheet of panda, supposed to be in sealed mint sheet, and thats the reason i bought them. it turned out the coins are loose ones and very very bad quality with broken capsules, like those off quality ones other dealers sell, and read their policy, they dont accept returns!!!!

  76. high low silver says

    Shutter: This is why I got a Perry 5oz bullion from Provident today. It is all about what I want , not anyone else……………. My 1st 5oz coin !!

  77. Jon in CT says

    Dustyroads, thanks for the link to the NY Daily News article about the West Point mint. Near the end of that article there is this:

    Jeanette Grogan’s job is to make sure the collectibles are made from metal that’s as pure as possible — no nickel finishes or aluminum touches.

    “A 22-carat coin has to be 99.9% gold,” she said. “It’s a very time consuming and tedious process but valuable.”

    The Mint says that the American Eagle gold coins are 22-carat coins (i.e. 91.76% gold by mass). If Jeanette is requiring that 22-carat gold eagles be 99.9% gold, as the article states, then I want to buy only the collectible gold eagle coins minted during Jeanette’s work shifts. 🙂

    BTW, does anyone outside of the Mint or a government contractor regularly assay its precious metal coins?

  78. Mark in Florida says

    This set is for the “real collectors.” At double melt and 250k made it’s not going to go up in value, but as the first coin with this finish, it is a nice collectible.

    OT how is the Mint ever going to get 10 different spouse gold coins out in the next 6 months??? Two different wives for WIlson really make it a crowd! If I had been able to get the first ones I would have bought the whole set, but the Mint screwed up with not making enough for demand, so I was unable to order them and lost interest. If the mintages keep going down I might get a couple. Imagine, only a couple thousand collectors are collecting the set.

  79. Dustyroads says

    Simon, I have been wanting to go on a tour of the Denver Mint, I could easily plan a vacation around that. I agree, it would be nice to see some special coins created with the CC or the O mint mark. I really like Morgan CC’s, I’ve been slowly collecting them. Glad you liked the clip of the WP Mint.

    Jon in CT, I’m of the belief that the coins produced right here within our borders are the best coins in the world, sure quality can fall, but I believe in our Mints ability to maintain high standards.

  80. Dustyroads says

    I’ve been trying to compare the WP set to the 2001 Smithsonian dollar set, but I don’t think it’s a good enough comparison. The 2001 commemoratives in OGP sell well at the $300.00 level with a comparative mintage, but the 2001’s were and still are like by so many with it’s classic Indian and buffalo design.

  81. Gary says

    @dusty
    Thanks for video post! I see my reverse buffalo sitting in a tray as I await its arrival.

  82. says

    Yes…that reverse proof in the video looked awesome!!! Yeah, i know, i know, you keep saying how the regular proof may have a low mintage, but the reverse proof will be the one for me. I’ll keep an eye on the mintage of the regular proof…we’ll see how that goes.

  83. simon says

    Dusty : a quick clarification – they used the “D” mint mark for the Dahlonega mint in GA years before the Denver Mint came online. I too would like to see the Denver Mint in operation – I hear they do give guided tours.

    I agree, the US Mint sets a very high bar for the rest of the world to follow both in numismatic themes and offerings. I very-very rarely purchase coins from elsewhere, and mostly for the subject material.

  84. Ray says

    Denver gives scheduled tours. I live here. I think you have to call and schedule one tho. I’ve been thinking of making an appt and going down for a tour during a work break. I grew up in Philadelphia and did a class tour when i was grade school. Not sure if they still do them to, but I’d assume they do. West Point doesnt do tours. Cant speak for SF. The latter 2 are the tours I’d really want to see, but I’d be interested in seeing any of them.

    Where are these NGC 2013 WP sets in retro black holders coming from? I know they offered this Oct-Dec last year, but to my knowledge it isnt being offered right now. I’d check the registery # on the back of the graded coin to make sure it matches up with whats inside. ANyone have more info about this?

  85. Shutter says

    Where are these NGC 2013 WP sets in retro black holders coming from?
    They are coming from NGC.
    http://www.ngccoin.com/news/viewarticle.aspx?IDArticle=3301
    By popular demand, the black NGC Retro Holder will be made available to bulk submitters.
    Popular demand means dealers offered more money.

    I’d check the registery # on the back of the graded coin to make sure it matches up with whats inside.
    It is extremely unlikely that big dealers like MCM, ST, and others would risk their business to fake NGC holders. NGC already makes “exclusive” holders for them. Last year’s black holder cores were extremely well received, so it’s really a no brainer. Personally, I thought they made gold and golden (dollars) look awesome. The silver coins, so-so.

  86. ann says

    The Limited Silver set looks so good because of the black background.

    SF mint does no tours.

  87. merryxmasmrscrooge says

    surprised. just what i bet, a sliver over 280,000. Reverse psychology did come into play i guess.
    the highest mintage of all the $1 silver Eagle sets, but the unique 3-toned design makes this a winner.

  88. joe says

    Why is Modern Coin Mart’s sets so much higher in price than others? I like MCM, but their margins keep getting higher and higher. Time to start looking for another company to purchase graded coins from I guess…

  89. stephen m says

    Joe, i think you may be right. They appear to be getting too high on some of their offerings and they use to boast that they will sell for the lowest price. 289.00 for a 70 graded wp set seems high. Coin vault’s TV price is 299.00. I rest my case. MCM does have a price match policy but it’s pick and choose for them. I asked them for a price adjustment on my WP graded 70 set based on Goldmarts much lower price and was denied because Goldmart is one of the places that they won’t match price with. I’m looking for another company to purchase graded coins from also.

  90. Chuck says

    I’ve also noticed that when you order from ST and GM the OGP comes with it as part of the deal. MCM does not mention OGP with these sets so I called and was told the OGP will be sent with the order if requested. I did not see this policy where these sets are listed. Personally that does sit well with me.

  91. Samuel says

    Chuck, MCM used to have a website that sells the box etc until several months ago.

  92. Eddie says

    I am going to buy 70 graded WP set but only when the prices come down. Right now they are trying to get as much money as they can because they even know the price will fall.

  93. stephen m says

    Phelps, I didn’t know Goldmart has a lower price on the graded WP 70 sets until after i ordered from MCM and then i backed up and i requested for a price adustment based on Goldmarts lower price. I did not and still don’t know why MCM has price match but not with Goldmart. MCM did offer me a refund but i let the order stand to remind me of the trust realationship i thought i had with MCM.

  94. Chuck says

    Samuel says:

    June 9, 2013 at 11:02 am

    Chuck, MCM used to have a website that sells the box etc until several months ago.

    Right. So what do they do with them now? If they’re not selling them (ebay?) why not send them out with the order automatically?

  95. jayarejr says

    Shutter: I don’t agree that whatever restrictions the mint puts in place. that the big dealers will still be able to get all they need and the collector will pay an exorbitant price. It requires persistence on the collector’s part. When the 2011 set came out, I sat online for an hour until I got through, and received a very nice set at the Mint price. I’m sure others did the same.

  96. jayarejr says

    If it is the artificial restrictions that are the incentives to speculate, then how come there is so much chatter about whether speculators will make out well with the new 2013 set? The “artificial restrictions” on the 2011 set is what kept the speculators out of the market.

  97. Ray says

    Interesting, I had read that page on NGC a while back but I dont remember seeing the black holder info. Maybe I overlooked it. Either way, I think its complete bs that they’d offer certain holders to the big boys but not the general public. A bit frustrating since I really like the black holders. A lot of this TPG collecting is starting to seem like an uphill battle. I’d like to see an even playing field, but as long as TPGs do crap like this, it seems like it will never be. Yuck!

  98. Shutter says

    I don’t agree that whatever restrictions the mint puts in place. that the big dealers will still be able to get all they need and the collector will pay an exorbitant price.

    You don’t need to agree. You don’t need to believe. You don’t need to trust. Just look at the facts. In 2011, big dealers, like MCM, found ways to obtain inventory. Those collectors that work for a living and could not afford to sit for hours trying to place an order, got screwed and had to pay double or more on the secondary market.

    If it is the artificial restrictions that are the incentives to speculate, then how come there is so much chatter about whether speculators will make out well with the new 2013 set?

    Chatter is just that. Chatter. And most of it boils down to the simple fact, that speculators will not make a lot of money on 2013 set. Just like they didn’t on 2012 set.

    The “artificial restrictions” on the 2011 set is what kept the speculators out of the market.

    Really?! In what alternative universe? For months, eBay had thousands of 2011 set listing. With 70 sets going for as high as $2,000. Those weren’t collectors selling off cherished collections built over decades. They were speculating that they could sell 1 set and pay for the other four. I have no problem with them doing that, but let’s not pretend that this is something other than naked speculation. The only ones kept out of the market are poor schmucks that have to work for a living.

  99. Ray says

    The US Mint should include the last 4 digits of the credit card used for purchase either/both on the original email/receipt, or in the order history. How can I distinguish which card I used for which order? They really seem behind on the times when it comes to technology.

  100. Dan in Fla says

    I only use one credit card for the Mint and did not know that they would take alternate credit cards so thanks Ray. It is hard to balance an account when you don’t know when a debit is coming.

  101. Wes says

    Yesterday I checked Apmex and they had 5 sets of ASE WP sets in stock for around 179 each in OGP. MY question is has anyone else received their order already and how can they have them in stock already?

  102. Wes says

    The dealers found ways to get 2011 inventories by paying more for them than what the mint was charging from people that got through. Then they sold them at even a higher price because demand supply didn’t meet demand. The mint could have just left a household limit in place but raised the maximum number limit to 200,000 on these 2013 sets and there would still be a demand on the secondary market. At 250,000 plus sets it remains to be seen what demand will be there. I am also wondering although this may have already been answered by Michael if the mint has guaranteed that it won’t produce any more of the two coins in this set for other sets like they did for the 2012 set?

  103. Dan in Fla says

    I don’t believe that the Mint will start shipment until about 6/17/13. Now Apmex has up alert me notices. MCM has only 69’s available. Maybe these are going to be hot.

  104. high low silver says

    I’m waiting too Wess. This enhanced coin is the future IMO. I hope 2013 will be unique.

  105. stephen m says

    Dan, or artificially made hot to demand a higher price. The big players know all the tricks. I think the wp sets will always command a higher price than the 139.00 original mint price. The set has and always will have 2 great ASE’s.

  106. Rich says

    @ Chuck

    MCM does provide OGP for coins graded 70. If you request it when you make your purchase they will send it at no additional cost. However, I can just assume when you are dealing in quantity like MCM the additional shipping cost associated with including the OGP adds up. These guys are just being business smart as most (not all) collectors who buy slabbed coins don’t care much about the OGP. Unless of course you are one of those whom must have all your coins graded 70 with all OGP and COA. A small market at best – again assuming – that is possibly why the OGP site has closed.

  107. im just a bill says

    TPG = scam

    I will never understand why someones needs someone to tell you how shiny your coin is?

    Now ya’ll are getting all bunched up about a black label lol

  108. vaughnster says

    @im just a bill– Your statement is a little simplistic about TPG’s. I agree that some of it is fancy marketing with “First Strike” etc. on newer released coins. However, in this day with eBay and other online coin selling, it is a must to have certain coins graded by a reputable grading service. Would you buy a 1995-W proof silver eagle ungraded for $3200 or one graded PR69UC by NGC or PCGS for the same price? The TPG’s do have their place for us non-experts who want to know exactly what they’re buying.

  109. fmtransmitter says

    I been using Jesse James Rare Coins Good guy, New dealer. Fair, honest. He ONLY deals in eagles.

  110. billrod says

    Let me tell you a story about TPGs.

    I bought a MS65 1938D Walking Liberty half dollar from a very well known coin company around 1975. TPGs did not exist then. Twenty years later I sent the coin to a TPG and it came back that the “D” had been added. I promptly sent the coin plus my original receipt back to the dealer I bought it from. Within a few weeks I received a full refund. Never in my wildest dreams did I ever think I would see my money again. This major dealer is still in business today and you would immediately recognize the name.
    I’m not a big fan of TPGs but don’t think that they do not provide a valuable service even for collectors with over 50 year’s collecting experience.

  111. simon says

    bill : There is evidence that PCGS will doctor coins when they screw up on handling. My 2c : Who monitors the TPGs and their questionable practices ? Answer : No One ! Another point is that many of the TPG comments relate to hype about modern issues. My own preference is for OGP. The slabbed coins I own ( no TPG pref ) are all pre-WWII vintage.

  112. Dan says

    Billrod

    I dont have a story like you about TPG’s but it is for that reason alone that I will not buy a coin of any significance without it. While I will not send any coin out that I buy directly from a mint, they do provide an invaluable service as far as authenticating a coin. My only fear now is getting a phony coin in a phony holder. Soon we will need a registration service on TPG coins to provide a paperwork trail on all graded coins. .

  113. joe says

    To Simon’s point, I have had several issues with PCGS coins (MS70 or PR70) that have “degraded” over time in the holders. We are talking about releases over the past year; not older coins. I have never had a similar issue with coins in NGC holders…not to say it doesn’t happen.

    To this day, I also believe PCGS damages coins and I think it will come to light at some point as more people see their supposedly perfect coins degrade in the holders.

    That is why I try to limit my purchases coins in PCGS holders…too much risk.

  114. Hawkster says

    joe:

    You brought up anothe reason to keep modern issue coins in the original government capsules. The body oil from ungloved grader’s hands eventually reacts with the coins.

  115. Samuel says

    the place to check for the finger prints is the edge, if it is not serrated, especially in the NGC edgeview holder.

  116. Ray says

    why in the world would these TPGs not wear gloves when grading coins? are you sure they dont? how do you know this? if true, i’m skeptical to send my coins to any TPG. seems like coin grading 101 to me.

  117. Hawkster says

    Samuel,

    When the graders pick the coin up from a tray, or whatever their work surface is, you have to believe that their fingers are touching more than just the rim or edge of the coin.

    Just try to pick up a coin off a flat surface and see how much of the coin your fingers are making contact with–its more than just the rim.

  118. simon says

    Ray : very common practice – their reasoning is that the coin is more secure in their fingers than otherwise. I myself have used powder free finger cots for non OGP coins which work very well. OGP coins of course do not need to be removed at all. The mint capsules are very high quality and protect the coins for years and years.

  119. Don says

    Ray,

    There is a video out there that shows and explains the grading process. I believe that it was posted by a commenter several months ago. It does show the graders using their bare hands.

    What amazes me is that I have goin to coin dealers to buy silver bullion coins. Not one dealer has used a glove to remove individual bullion silver eagles from the Mint tube. You would think that they would know not to touch a coin with a bare hand.

  120. Samuel says

    i posted the video a while ago, u go to the website and search

    “Your Coin’s Journey Through XXX”

  121. jayarejr says

    “The only ones that get screwed are the poor schmucks that have to work for a living.”

    I guess I’m one of them, because I work for a living, and used my lunch hour to eat at my desk and obtain my 2011 set. But I somehow don’t feel I got screwed.

  122. Don says

    Samuel,

    Thanks. I looked again at the video, which clearly shows ungloved graders. The Grading Company even puts out a statement that their graders never wear gloves. There are actually several postings on their website where customers, or potential customers, express their concern over the lack of gloves.

    This Grading Company, which I will not name directly, is actually one of the big two (the one with the three letters).

  123. JBK says

    I am still skeptical of their reasoning that they are better off with bare hands. I understand the argument about reduced dexterity with gloved hands, but it is something they should learn to deal with, invent a better glove, etc.

    If I have to handle my own coins without gloves I use extreme caution, but I suspect that they are not so careful. I wash my hands and dry them thoroughly, and repeat the process if I touch anything that is not sterile or if too much time has elapsed since my last scrub down. I can just see the TPGs now – slab a PR70, then scratch the itch on their nose, then slab an MS70, then fuss with their hair or rub their eyes, slab something else, and so on.

    I have seen dealers treat their coins in such a way that I instantly decide not to do business with them. Once I asked a dealer how much a BU ¼ ounce Mexican silver coin was, and he proceeded to slide it out of its plastic flip and let it rest in the palm of his hand as he flipped it over to see the date. I just walked away. Another time I walked into a coin shop and the owner was eating a big greasy meal from a fast food joint, all the while ready and willing to jump up and attend to customers.

    I do not want to buy uncirculated or proof coins that will soon show the effects of having been manhandled. Oils and sweat will impact the surface not immediately but soon enough.

  124. Dan in Fla says

    I always use gloved hands when handling rolls of silver and coins. When I break up a roll to sell them I place in Air-tite containers right away. This blog is great and lengthy but informative. This is another reason not to use TPGs and stick to OGP.

  125. vaughnster says

    @jayarejr– It amazes me the whining that still exists about the 2011 ASE Anniversary Sets. Weeks before the sale date, I changed shifts with a fellow worker as to have a three hours to put my order(s) in before having to start work. I would have taken a vacation day off to get the job done. Everyone knew how hot these sets would be but some aren’t willing to put “skin in the game” to go and get it. Hats off to you and other poor schmucks like me who have to work for a living. 🙂

  126. Don says

    No matter how clean a coin grader’s hands may be, there is a strong possibility that fingerprints will be deposited on the coin.

    Presumably, one of the reasons these TPG companies exist is to certify a coin’s authenticity. Yes, there have been cases of counterfeited coins, but the problem seems to be limited to vintage ones, such as Morgan silver dollars. I have not heard of any instances where modern issue coins have been copied. So, it would seem, there is no real need to enlist the help of a TPG company to authenticate, for example, an ASE or even an AGE–especially if they are in OGP.

  127. says

    Don, you are right about modern coins not needing “authenticity”, however, these companies are called third party GRADING companies, not TPA.

  128. Jim_D says

    I take issue with the early strike designation. For all I know, all coins are made at the same time and whether a received coin is first or last off the press, is anyone’s guess. Unless the mint starts microengraving a serial number on each coin as it’s produced, there is no “provenance” from the mint as to when it was specifically made. So it begs the question, who decides whether a specific coin was early or not.

  129. Shutter says

    I take issue with the early strike designation. For all I know, all coins are made at the same time and whether a received coin is first or last off the press, is anyone’s guess.

    This has been discussed ad nauseum here and in all other coin collecting forums. Bottom line is that FS/ER designation means nothing.

    Unless the mint starts microengraving a serial number on each coin as it’s produced, there is no “provenance” from the mint as to when it was specifically made.

    There is no need for microengraving. If the US mint wanted to, they could provide documentation to graders indicating that a particular batch of coins is First Strike. The simple fact is they dont want to.

    So it begs the question, who decides whether a specific coin was early or not.

    The graders do. On their websites both NGC and PCGS explain their criteria for such designation. So really there is no question.

  130. dan says

    Shutter

    You are wrong when you say that ER/FS means nothing, its BS that is worth a fortune to the graders!!!!!!!!!

  131. satch says

    When you figure in what the grading co’s want for their service(opinions),your probably better off looking around and buying the coins on the secondary Mkt.This passed year I put together a 2011 set in PCGS First Strike.All five coins are MS69,but there’s still only 100K sets out there.

  132. Ed says

    Just recieved an update from the US Mint on Monday 17rth. My order, which I put in at 12:03PM on the first day of ordering, telling me that my order has been pushed back to July 02. I guess geetting in at the top counts for nothing…first come, first served my butt.

  133. john says

    there filling the big order first,I call hsn,said they will have there in by 6-20-13.what that tell you.

  134. rpw says

    Called the mint. They told me all of the first orders have changed to 7/02 backorder date. I was told that my order will be one of the first to ship (since my order was one of the first ones). I told her that if it wasn’t — I was gonna be extremely mad. I’m really getting tired of the games the mint is playing.
    If the dealers get their’s before the general public — I will stop buying in a heartbeat. I’m basically only buying for silver anyway. The mint needs to stop treating it’s customer’s like they don’t matter. Look at the counter for the total sales on this set. How did it increase 30,000 in ONE day —- AFTER the cutoff!
    Something stinks here — AS USUAL!

  135. billrod says

    I just spoke to a supervisor at the Fullfillment Center named Emmy and she said that the W sets have not been received yet from the Mint. She hopes to receive them within a week and start shipping them out right away. The story is that since orders could be placed until June 6 that everything was delayed until that date. That’s hard for me to understand since over 150,000 sets had already been placed during the first few days and it was obvious that the demand would be high. So why the big delay ? My Order Tracking on the website still has 6/17 as the expected shipment date.

  136. john says

    seem like there a prolbem with these sets,I know the mint had made some I seen pictures on web site of the new coins.why the 3 week delay.

  137. stephen m says

    Large customers, in every business, receive priority over the small ones. I wouldn’t expect the mint or shipping contractor to be any different. Hang tight, we will get ours. I ordered about 4:30 the first day and have a ship date of 7-25.

  138. Ed says

    Just check my order and it has change to “in stocked and reserved”. No shipping date on it, I ordered my coions at 12:03 PM via phone.

  139. john says

    call the place that ship set said they have not ship out any two coins set do not have them yet.I heard hsn got there today 3500 sets.I call ncg they said ,they have got a few set in to grade.so it sound like the mint is not telling the thurt about the sets.that it for me on mint coins if i like them i will buy on ebay or some were else.

  140. Ed says

    When I got home and open the boxes and to my surprise I have two damage capsule. My plan was to send in one set to NGC and keep the other for show with my other sets. Both enhance coin have damage capsule. One not so noticeable the other damn noticeable. I can not win. I did not want to send in two sets but I might have too. I am going to wait till the weekend to look at the coins closely before sending them out. I should be cooled down my then.

    I hope others have greater success then I did. You can see my pic on the boards at collectors-societ site.

  141. Dogman says

    This mint operation is going over the edge.I’ve collected this ASE material since its inception,but honestly with all of the deception and weakness of quality I’m about to give it up.I have two sets ordered with cancelation option still open I’m in a quandary.There is no excuse for flawed material and shipping to commercial marketers before we the every day guys and gals receive there sets.It has become in your face obvious the bulk buyers have there orders week in advance.the secondary market has graded set in stock ready to ship.How many of you have received your sets from the mint?Please send those agency a message.

  142. Dogman says

    I believe the mint and the TPGERS have been successful in trashing the best series the mint ever innovated.Too bad.

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