2013 West Point Silver Eagle Set

Tomorrow, May 9, 2013 at 12:00 Noon ET, the United States Mint will begin accepting orders for the 2013 American Eagle West Point Two-Coin Silver Set. There has been a great deal of collector anticipation for the set which will contain the first ever “enhanced uncirculated” Silver Eagle.

West Point Silver Eagle Set

The special set is being issued to commemorate the 75th anniversary of the edifice that houses the United States Mint facility at West Point. Prior to the official announcement, there had been indications that the set would be issued to mark the 25th anniversary of the West Point Mint gaining full mint status. The product page describes the set as following the US Mint’s tradition of offering special American Eagle coin sets, rather than mentioning a specific anniversary.

Each set will contain two American Silver Eagles, which are both struck at the West Point Mint and carry the “W” mint mark.

The first coin will feature a reverse proof finish. Background fields of the coin appear frosted and the design elements and inscriptions appear mirrored, which is the opposite of the traditional cameo proof finish.

The US Mint previously offered reverse proof Silver Eagles in 2006, 2011, and 2012.

Enhanced Uncirculated Silver Eagle

The second coin included in the set will feature an enhanced uncirculated finish. On the obverse, the mountains, red stripes and blue field of the American flag, Liberty’s sandals, and the date carry an uncirculated finish. The remaining design elements and inscriptions carry a heavily frosted finish. On the reverse,the ribbon in the eagle’s beak, arrows, olive branch, and the alternating stripes and border of the shield carry an uncirculated finish. The remaining design elements and inscriptions carry a heavily frosted finish. The fields of both the obverse and reverse feature a new light frosted finish. Together, the three different finishes create a new impression of the well known design.

This will be the first time that the enhanced uncirculated finish has been used on the American Silver Eagle.

Both coins are placed in capsules and packaged within a single highly polished, blue lacquered hardwood presentation case with a certificate of authenticity. The packaging appears to match last year’s packaging for the San Francisco Silver Eagle Set.

The US Mint has explicitly stated that both of these coins will only be available in the special set. Last year many collectors were unpleasantly surprised when one of the coins included in the San Francisco Silver Eagle Set was later offered in the Making American History Coin and Currency Set.

The 2013 West Point Silver Eagle Set is priced at $139.95 per set. Originally, the set carried a preliminary price of $149.95, however this was reduced following a decline in the market price of silver.

The sets will be offered for sale only during a four week ordering window that extends from May 9, 2013 at 12:00 Noon ET until June 6, 2013 at 5:00 PM. There is no stated product limit, and no household ordering limits will be imposed. Customer demand will determine the number of sets to be produced. Shipping is expected to begin in mid to late June.

Last year the San Francisco Set had also been offered for sale during a four week ordering window and produced based on customer demand. A sales odometer was included on the product page and adjusted daily. It is not clear whether a similar odometer will be used for this year’s product. At the very least, the weekly figures should be reported in the numismatic sales reports released each Tuesday.

The sales numbers for the West Point Set will be closely watched by many collectors to see how they compare to other special Silver Eagle set offerings. For those tracking sales over the coming weeks, here are some reference numbers to consider.

  • The 20th Anniversary Set, which contained uncirculated, proof and reverse proof coins, had a final audited mintage of 248,875.
  • The 25th Anniversary Set, which contained uncirculated (S & W mint marks), proof, reverse proof, and bullion coins, sold out of the product limit of 100,000.
  • The 2012 San Francisco Set, which contained proof and reverse proof coins with the S mint mark, had final unaudited sales of 224,981.

Update: At 3:35 PM ET, the United States Mint released the following statement:

Our online catalog has not stopped working. However, because of the large number of customers attempting to place orders for the American Eagle West Point Two-Coin Silver Set, you may experience delays. This product will be on sale through June 6 and there is no mintage limit, so try later when the site is not experiencing so much traffic. We apologize for the inconvenience and appreciate your patience.

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Comments

  1. J Jonah Jameson says

    Looks like the bullion version of the White Mountain ATB 5 oz will be available shortly.

    “The U.S. Mint will allocate the initial release of the 2013 America the Beautiful Five-Ounce Silver Bullion Coin – White Mountain National Forest – on Monday. The mint made the announcement in a memo to authorized dealers. Coins will be allocated via the same format used for silver Eagles, with the allocation process to remain in place until demand for the coin can be met.”

  2. Don says

    Samuel,
    The blue presentation box, as you are probably aware, was used for the 2011 and 2012 Silver Eagle Sets. At least this keeps the presentation boxes consistent. The dark blue presents well against the silve eagle. The Mint could have done a lot worse in packaging these sets.
    I do hope that some type of padding is put over the capsules to prevent them from coming out of their round slots and tumbling around inside the box. This was an especially common occurence with the 2011 set.

  3. Pool Shark says

    Jonah,

    Looks like APMEX is now taking pre-orders on them.

    $145.05 each or Monster Box for $13,755.00

  4. Shutter says

    The blue presentation box, as you are probably aware, was used for the 2011 and 2012 Silver Eagle Sets

    2011 and 2012 were similar but not the same. Apart from having room for 5 coins, the 2011 had interior big enough to accomodate NGC slabs. The 2012 box does not. PCGS slabs will fit, but only if you ditch the coin holder insert.

    Incidentally, I’m all for consistency, but the mint likes to change this around without necessarily adding any benefit.

  5. Dan in Fla says

    I only buy OGP and very rarely buy any graded coins so I in for the same amount that I bought last year. Hopefully the Mint will not crash tomorrow. It should not since they will be on sale for four weeks.

  6. Brad says

    The website will still probably slow down some in the opening hours, due to all of the “first-strike” or “early release” aficionados wanting to get their orders in the queue as early as possible. I couldn’t care less about such things, but there are many who do. The website dragged for a while on the first day of sales for the San Francisco set last year.

    I don’t have faith that this set will be a big winner, as this new way of selling ASE sets the Mint uses of the no limit four-week ordering window causes the mintage to be too high for that. The San Francisco set from 2012 (despite a mintage lower than the 2006 set) is basically a pretty-looking dog on the secondary market. I’d like to have a 2013 West Point set for myself, but here’s the problem. With the sets not shipping out until after the ordering window is closed, what if I only buy one set and it ultimately arrives with one or both coins looking like @#$*? I can’t order another one at that point, and any replacement set received after the fact will probably look as bad or worse. I don’t want to have to order several of these 2013 sets to get a nice one, since the extras would probably end up being sold for a loss.

    I guess I could gamble that this one will actually be for sale later on the secondary market at or below issue price, and I could actually see what I’d be getting before I lay the money down. I don’t know.

  7. Ray says

    So if we’re expecting website delays, am i better off calling to order my west point ASE sets tomorrow?

  8. stephen m says

    Brad, I was wanting to see if any graded sets are being offered before i order coin sets that may look like @#$*?. Has anyone seen any graded sets on pre-sale yet?

  9. thePhelps says

    @Brad – I have faith in the West Point mint. I have almost never gotten a bad coin from them. There are exceptions, but unlike Denver – where bad is the rule (IMO), I have no problems with the process.

    I really don’t care what the secondary market is doing with this coin. I am the primary market kind of guy and don’t need to buy from a middle man. I buy for my collection – and this set looks like a solid winner to me.

  10. vaughnster says

    Stephen–I was hoping MCM would come out with pre-sale graded sets. I’m on their alert list but nothing yet.

  11. charles says

    MCM has been taking pre-orders for graded sets or individual coins for a couple of weeks now….they just don’t know what the price will be…so pre-orders are not binding….you can opt out if you don’t like the price.

    Don’t expect any prices for graded sets until shipping begins and possibly a week after that until it can be seen what the ratio is between 69/70 sets. Last year graded sets sets started out at very low prices…I don’t know if we can expect that again this year. They may start selling 70 sets at what last years sets currently go for.

  12. stephen m says

    vaughnster, thanks, i love the ASE’s, i’ve been watching MCM and i am on the alert list also. Last year they sold the 70 SF sets in ngc for 229.00, i think, with free shipping and the OGP. I purchased 2 of the 70 sets. @ charles, thanks for the reply. It looks as though myself and more people look to MCM for graded sets. I’m hoping to get at least 1 graded 70 set, in ngc or pcgs (don’t know which would be the better choice), and 1 set from the mint. There doesn’t seem to be as much blog traffic on the WP set as there was with the SF sets but it’s still early in this game.

  13. Shutter says

    So if we’re expecting website delays, am i better off calling to order my west point ASE sets tomorrow?

    The phone lines will probably be jammed too. If it’s anything like SF set, the rush will be over after a few hours and you can place the order at leisure.

  14. j says

    first few hours will be crazy slow just wait order after supper will get them just as fast as the ones who tie up lines … i am in for 4 sets to match sf,25th , 2006

  15. Dustyroads says

    Brad,

    One thing that keeps popping into my head, this set is so unique to all the others, being that it contains the first ASE with the enhanced field. Even in higher numbers it may have the ability to retain a strong premium on the secondary market. I think the enhanced ASE would be one to have in MS70, but that’s not going to be cheap if you want to wait. If my thinking is correct, you might want to take a chance, and go ahead and get one.

  16. vaughnster says

    Charles–You cannot pre-order the 2013 ASE sets from MCM. There is no price and all state “out of stock.” You can only receive alerts when they are available. I also bought a 2012 ASE S.F. Set NGC PR69 and another PR70 set both with OGP from MGM for the ridiculous early low prices. Hope to do the same this year and order one or two sets direct from the Mint to have ungraded for my collection.

  17. RSF says

    I am curious to see what the enhanced uncirculated finish looks like in hand, but I’ll be getting this set primarily for the reverse proof. With the sixth and seventh RP eagles issued this year, these will start to be collected and put together as subsets.
    The unc W ASEs will also qualify as a subset if they keep making them each year.

  18. says

    vaughnster…yes, I see…but don’t expect the “ridiculous” prices from last year.

    I also bought some PCGS 70 sets from Silvertowne last year…they also had some good prices.

    I plan on buying 10 sets and having them graded at NGC. Last year it cost me about $47/set in total to have the sets graded. Sooo..that puts some 70 sets at only $187.

    btw…sorry for any confusion…when I am on my pc, my name is Steve…and when I’m on my tablet, I use Charles as I use I different email address. Looks like I could of used Steve all along on both..

  19. Mint News Blog says

    Shipping is expected to begin in mid to late June– so after the order period ends.

  20. says

    Last year I ordered on the first day at 12:20 on 6/7/12 and it shipped on 8/1/12

    I placed my last order on the last day orders were taken (7/5/12) and it shipped on 10/25/12.

  21. says

    I’ll say now I’m not expecting serious website crashes like with saw with the 25th anniversary set or the Hot Springs AtB. The website was slow last year during the release of the SF set but I don’t think it ever crashed, and my group got their orders in without any problem at all.

    I also think traffic may be be alleviated somewhat by people who want to group together their orders for the West Point sets and White Mountain AtBs together.

  22. high low silver says

    I can’t wait till the MAH set sells out to get a mintage of the 2012 S proof eagle.

  23. andrew says

    This will be a bust. 2012 set was a bust because it was unlimited. now there are so many reverse proofs out there, this wont matter.

  24. Blair J. Tobler says

    Re: “This will be a bust.”

    Depends on your point of view. I don’t flip – just collect, so it’s a winner for me!

  25. Ann says

    Totally excited about this release!! Wondering how they will handle returns?
    If minted to order, how many extras are produced for returned damaged coins??

  26. JEFF IN TX. says

    I think this set will be hot in sales. The unc silver eagle is the first of its kind. The mintage totals will probably increase on the last week of ordering. With the new looking enhanced eagle after market demand will grow.

  27. Discovergold says

    US Mint to limit purchases of “America the Beautiful” silver coins

    May 8 (Reuters) – The U.S. Mint will limit dealers’ purchases of its “America the Beautiful” five-ounce silver bullion coins when they go on sale next week because strong demand exceeds the mint’s inventory.

    The mint has been allocating sales of its more popular American Eagle silver bullion coins to its authorized dealers since late January following a brief suspension.

    When “America the Beautiful” coin sales begin on May 13, the mint will distribute half of its inventory equally between its authorized dealers, and the other half based on each dealer’s volume of “America the Beautiful” coin sales in the last two years, it said on Wednesday.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/08/usmint-coins-silver-idUSL2N0DP2K320130508

  28. says

    Well, there is definitely a stampede on for this one. The US Mint’s website is totally nonresponsive. I’ve managed to get the coins in my cart but am having trouble getting through the checkout process.

    The Mint should never have cancelled its website upgrade process.

  29. VABEACHBUM says

    CRASH & BURN!! Rescue Crews have yet to respond…

    For no other reason that sheer entertainment value, I logged into the US Mint site at 11:58 AM without a problem. Tried refreshing the Anny Set page at 12:01 PM, and my connection died a horrible death.

    This could get interesting!!!

  30. says

    I got to the last step of checkout and hit “place order”, but nothing happened….after 5 mintuted it still does nothing when I try to place my order.

    Out of curiousity, I checked my email I had an email from the Mint at 12:13 with my order numbers and all details. Strange

  31. NaplesMike says

    Just curious…is an order placed in the queue when an item is placed in one’s cart or at the end of the check out process? My order is hung up on the payment step of the check out.

  32. says

    Steve,

    Most likely your order got through but it just failed to load the order completion screen. That happened to my friend last time we had one of these stampedes, I believe for the 25th anniversary set.

    My order went through at about 12:15. Anyone else get in sooner? My order number was # 41480XXX.

  33. says

    Mike,

    Check your email. If your order made it through, you will get a receipt in your inbox.

    There is no queue system – the Mint appears not to have enough servers to handle the traffic load during high traffic days and so, whenever a “hot demand” item is released, the website crashes.

  34. Snowy says

    Order completed as well
    Order #: 41480XXX

    Order hanged in cart on pc.. completed on smart phone

  35. Silver Sam says

    What is all the rush???This isn’t being processed like the 2011 Anniversary Set! I am waiting until after the stampede to order my sets. You should chill on this one unless you have flipping on the mind.

  36. Ikaika says

    And we thought the US Mint had invested tons of money to improve their web server. This is as bad as the 25th anniversary set 😉

  37. Brad says

    This is hilarious! Just like Virginia Beach Bum, I tried to log on at about 11:30 just for fun, and the Mint site is DEAD!

    These sets are UNLIMITED, people! It’s GOTTA be the “First Strike” and “Early Releases” aficionados! 🙂

  38. Jus-a-coin-luvr says

    Sort of makes you wonder about the integrity of what you are “ordering” when the Servers are that hosed-up? You make screen entries, but don’t actually know what happened on the other end… 🙂

  39. thePhelps says

    Well – I can get to the Mints website anyway! I can’t login or look at any pages, but I can get there!

  40. Brad says

    NaplesMike,

    That’s good. Remember though, when it comes to abbreviating your order number, you want to X out the LAST few digits, not the first few. Those are pretty much the same on all orders within a certain time frame. By giving the last few, people can figure out your order number.

  41. creepster says

    12.03 order completed and confirmed. Firefox is way better then IE.
    41478xxx order number.

  42. Kevin says

    What a joke the US Mints website is, cant even order a coin set. They advertise this set and then cant even meet consumer demand for the product because their website is horrible.

  43. Louis says

    Even the first strike/ER crowd could chill a bit since you don’t have to order in the first couple hrs. to be label-eligible! But that herd mentality kicks in.

  44. Louis says

    I am glad they won’t ship til next month because that gives us time to get our ducks lined up.

  45. VABEACHBUM says

    So, given the level of activity and 4+ days to the next Mint Sales Report, who wants to set the over/under for the first report on this set?? If this initial activity is any indication of total sales, any revised guesses on the series total we will see 4 weeks from now??

    BTW – I have yet to complete my order as of 12:53 EDT.

  46. John says

    All orders are sent first in first out, ordering early pays off for flippers.

    The Mint needs to get with the program, on shipping page they said my address doesn’t match their data base, guess what… update your data base! Site crashes, have to start all over.

  47. says

    Co…yeah I’m sure that’s what happened.

    When I go to tracking, the expected ship date is 6/17….that’s in line with when the Mint stated shipping would begin.

  48. Louis says

    Just got through. Started about 12:35 pm. Really not that bad. Nothing like 2011. Good luck everyone.

  49. creepster says

    Order #1 for me at 12:03, Order #2 for a friend at 12:05.
    Slightly less than 200 numbers between them. I could
    never get in with IE in the past. Go Firefox!

  50. Louis says

    Everyone is getting 6/17. I that that is just an estimate at this point.

    Ray- You can give him a pic of the set and say it’s coming!

  51. xr says

    Usual web issues – over 50 min on an order load – quit out when I got through on phone (only 4th try almost an hour in).

    HEAVY volume. I placed the WP order and placed a subscription – over a 600 number increase in the time to place the second order.

    Clearly the Mint has yet to figure out that their release approach really doesn’t work well. Better to set a limit and allow subscriptions during a fixed period ahead of the official date – or subcontract out for more help on expected heavy days.

  52. Saucexx says

    It took awhile but I’m in for three. I figured I had nothing to lose by ordering early.

  53. JEFF IN TX. says

    My order went . 12:41 east coast time. #4148XXXX. Yes I had to use my tablet to finish order as the PC. stopped moving at check out. Got the e-mail too all is well. Good Luck!!!!!

  54. Bill says

    Well I finally got 2 sets ordered. I was on at 12:00 PM, but I could not get to the shopping cart page till 12:15. Then it took another 10 minutes to verify my order. I was using Fire fox to.

  55. posterhunter says

    So they won’t start shipping until after they stop taking orders.

  56. Louis says

    I will never forget the comment someone left here during the 2011 debacle (was it you Ikaika?) that when I could not get through I was like a kid at the doughnut shop pressing my face against the glass!

  57. Ikaika says

    @ Louis

    Hilarious comment, but it was not me great Louis :). Although I was one of many fighting the mint website in that bloody battle 🙁

  58. Louis says

    BTW- If someone wants a White Mtn. bullion, they are down to about 100 from 500 at APMEX from this time yesterday. Because of the allocation system, it could be quite a while before Provident gets any as they are not an AP like APMEX.

  59. VABEACHBUM says

    Finally completed the ordering process at 1:07 PM EDT. #41486XXX

    The confirmation email indicates a back-order date of 07/11/2013, three weeks later than the dates indicated by Louis and others. I remember a similar circumstance w/ last year’s set, but many of those later shipping dates were covered within the first release of coins.

    @ EF – duly noted. I’m at 105K under, also w/ a 5K spread. Series totals at 305K. I really think the retailers are going to use the very unique “enhanced” eagle and the “both coins unique to this set” (assuming the Mint holds true to their word) mantra to dog the TPG and labeling combinations like never before.

  60. VABEACHBUM says

    Louis – Needed that!! A great way to end today’s battle. I definitely remember the comment, too, but cannot recall who had posted it.

  61. John says

    Mine says back ordered until 7/25. That’s a month later for only a one hour ordering period!

  62. george glazener says

    I just got mine in the mail…..!! I clicked the “same day delivery” option. They sure are gorgeous just like you all said they’d be…

  63. John says

    An internal server error has occurred. If you would like to place an order you can always call 1-800-USA-MINT (872-6468). Sorry for the inconvenience.

    Yeah right, that number is busy too.

  64. says

    Mint’s catalog site is still ultra-slow and not loading at all for me here. This is pretty funny in a way. I honestly did not expect this level of demand.

    For first week sales, I am anticipating around 100K given the continued website slowness. When there is a stampede for a particular product, it can cause a cascade effect as “word gets out” about the stampede who then join in.

    Louis,

    I suspect a good chunk of this is caused by people who want a First Strike label, and another chunk is caused by people who are just really excited about the set and can’t wait to get one. I’ve seen on this blog and elsewhere that anticipation for it was extremely high and i’ve no doubt you’ve seen it too.

    Anyone else tried ordering the set by phone yet? I’d be curious to hear whether phone orders are backed up as well (and if so, how long it’s taking people to break through).

  65. thePhelps says

    An internal server error has occurred. If you would like to place an order you can always call 1-800-USA-MINT (872-6468). Sorry for the inconvenience.

    I seem to be going no where fast – and yes that is with Firefox – I can’t even login to order…

  66. A&L Futures says

    Wont all coins sold qualify for First Strike (PCGS) and/or Early Release (NGC) lables? Why the rush?

  67. Frankie says

    What is the rush? Wait until tonight or tomorrow…! I don’t get it…

  68. Louis says

    CO- I think you are right about word getting out as I just got an internal server error in Firefox. Given the spreads on the shipping dates, I am glad I persisted but we will see how it actually works out since last year’s sets saw a big delay.

  69. says

    Louis,

    Yes, I saw the internal server error too. The website seems to have been down outright for about 10-15 minutes but it’s now back to “choking” instead of the server error. I think we’ve officially entered 25th anniversary set territory.

    I am now very glad I got in early. I cannot imagine what the shipping delays are going to look like on this thing!

  70. says

    A&L…no they all will not qualify for First Strike/Early Release. Probably about 50-70% wil be shipped in the first 30 days after shipping begins. All the others will not qualify.

  71. John says

    The United States Mint is experiencing technical difficulties. During this time period, you will not be able to use the website. To place an order please call 1-800-USA-MINT (872-6468). We apologize for the inconvenience.

    At least I got 3 so far.

  72. don says

    this is what I got from MInt

    The United States Mint is experiencing technical difficulties. During this time period, you will not be able to use the website. To place an order please call 1-800-USA-MINT (872-6468). We apologize for the inconvenience.

  73. says

    A&L,

    I believe the rule is (and someone correct me here if I’m wrong) that the coins must be received thirty days after the mint starts shipping them out. All the eBay sellers and regular retail dealers who want to sell these coins with a First Strike 70 designation, therefore, need to be as close to the front of the line as possible.

  74. A&L Futures says

    “Your call may be monitored for QUALITY and training purposes.” – What a joke.

    As soon as you click Option – 1, your call is disconnected (lol)

    Where’s the “quality?”

  75. Jus-a-coin-luvr says

    Here’s my 7 reasons on “why the rush”:

    1. Some people just like the challenge of ordering while thousands try as well.
    2. There is that thinking of getting “First Strike” status as has already been said.
    3. Some may just want to get it done and put behind them.
    4. It has been thought that early ordering may cure baldness.
    5. It is fun to “run with the herd” and feel the (virtual) excitement of a stampede!
    6. There is no good reason, but I’m doin’ it anyway.
    7. The fun of posting the order numbers here for inquiring minds.

  76. thePhelps says

    I am in no hurry and really don’t care squat about First Strike. I’ll wait until later to order. The First Strike hype is useless tripe.

  77. Ikaika says

    The mint website continues to give this message:

    The United States Mint is experiencing technical difficulties. During this time period, you will not be able to use the website. To place an order please call 1-800-USA-MINT (872-6468). We apologize for the inconvenience.

    Seems like it finally crashed.

  78. Kent Boughton says

    Living up to government standards the US Mint web site has crashed due to the 2013 West Point Silver Eagle Set orders coming in. It’s the same old story, the coin dealers get the cake while the public is left with a few crumbs.

  79. A&L Futures says

    Ikaika –

    To place an order please call 1-800-USA-MINT (872-6468). We apologize for the inconvenience.

    GOOD LUCK WITH THAT! (lol)

  80. Ikaika says

    @ A&L Futures

    The mint is really saying: We are not taking any orders at the present moment 🙂

  81. Brad says

    I was there for the 2011 debacle, and got my order through after about 1.5 hours I think. To my knowledge, the website didn’t actually CRASH at any point before the sets went to “waiting list.” However, I didn’t stick around after my order was placed that day.

    Now though, I can’t believe the site has been crashed over an unlimited product. Crazy.

  82. says

    I wonder if the mint is trying to cool down demand by letting the website go down for a couple of hours.

    A&L,

    Are you saying the Mint is not accepting telephone orders?

  83. says

    don,

    The Mint actually did not replace their system. They abandoned the effort halfway through, probably because of cost overruns. We’re now “feeling the pain” because of this.

  84. Brad says

    Man, what are the 7 or 8 people who wanted to order 2009 Presidential Dollar Coin Covers this week gonna think if they try to log on and do it now? They’ll be completely confused! 🙂

  85. T1 browserman says

    The United States Mint is experiencing technical difficulties. During this time period, you will not be able to use the website. To place an order please call 1-800-USA-MINT (872-6468). We apologize for the inconvenience.

    🙂 🙂 🙂

    I LOVE THE NEW WEBSITE !!!!!!

  86. John says

    I had my 2011 order by 1:30 – 1:45PM.

    If you look at the tab on the web page is says “Down For Maintenance”. Shouldn’t you have performed Maintenance before a big product offering???

  87. JagNut says

    Man I hope that the coin set is a better representation of the mint than their website!

  88. billy says

    the director of the mint needs to be fired immediately, this is unacceptable in 2013

  89. Dan in Fla says

    It is crazy. I guess everybody wants to be in the first shipment. This is impossible since they can’t ship them all on the same day.

  90. says

    John,

    The mint does not have the server capacity to handle high traffic days. My guess is either the heavy traffic crashed the website outright or else they’ve shut down orders to try to alleviate demand.

    Congrats to all those who managed to get in in time.

  91. Shutter says

    My guess is either the heavy traffic crashed the website outright or else they’ve shut down orders to try to alleviate demand.

    Shutting down does not alleviate demand. It merely postpones it.

  92. Bill says

    I am glad I got my order in within 30 minutes of when orders started. My shipping date says “Expected to ship on 06/17/2013” I will see about that!

  93. John says

    CaptainOverkill, I was joking. LOL

    I know they aren’t doing Maintenance, but they should. Clean house, hire new IT people, upgrade equipment, etc.

  94. T1 browserman says

    I totally forgot to login in prior to noon….LOL and as aptly put by shutter…shutting down the site does nothing….all I wished to do was put the item in the cart until they release the 5 oz next week then pull the trigger.

  95. Louis says

    I suspect they did not expect such a stampede in the first couple hrs. esp. based on last year’s experience.

  96. says

    This will be yet another grossly overproduced ASE confection. Buy & flip it quick boys! It’ll head south in price way before the summer is over. $140 bucks for $48 in silver don’t forget!!! Sweet profit margin for the U.S. Mint and us taxpayers!

    Nobody learned much after the 2010 ATB 5 ouncers came out and crashed and burned, same for the 2011 ASE 25th anniversary set.

    FLIP, FLIP, FLIP!

  97. Louis says

    Gary- How many times do I have to explain that taxpayers do not subsidize coin collectors? Coin collectors subsidize taxpayers because a large portion of the Mint’s profits go to reduce the deficit, but no taxpayer money is ever used to produce numismatic coins.

  98. thePhelps says

    @Gary… I collect – and am flipping in your general direction. This is a numistic offering, not a bullion coin you must be used to flipping. I’m not worried about the price and apparently a great number of others aren’t either – since the Mints website can’t keep up with the demand. I like many others will buy this issue and keep it. flip flip flip

  99. thePhelps says

    CO -I wasn’t going to say anything until I got my set order – finally. It actually went quick – like I was the only one on the site!

  100. Don says

    Hey Captain,
    I guess your earlier prediction of not having a downed website didn’t quite pan out. Shades of 2011? Not quite. Back then, with Mint customers knowing they were under the gun to get an order in before the 100,000 unit order was reached, the downed Mint website caused alot of angst.
    This time around, with the 2013 set, customers don’t have to sweat it out, knowing there is a 30 day ordering period for an unlimited amount of sets. Big difference.

  101. Dan in AZ says

    Logged in, added the item to my cart which already had 7 other items in it and a few key strokes later, an order number and it’s on the way. Easy Peazy this time around. I like the idea that it’s available for a one month window. It will giver everyone a chance to buy the set. Still I am blown away by the people that will buy this set (pre-order) on eBay instead of buying through the mint.

  102. says

    Don,

    Yeah, this stampede caught me completely off-guard. I suspect it was caused by a mix of the first strike buyers combined with general excitement over this release. I really was expecting something more steady like we saw with the San Francisco set and I’m sure the US Mint was probably thinking the same thing.

    And you’re correct it’s not exactly like 2011. In a way it’s actually worse, because in 2011 there was a reason for the stampede given the limited mintages. Here it appears that natural demand was so intense that the mint was just totally overwhelmed.

    Also, while it’s true the sets are mint to demand, it seems as though people whose orders went in will have to wait until July 25th to get their set. So I imagine there are quite a lot of buyers who don’t want to wait that long (or even longer) that may also be “piling in.”

  103. Louis says

    Try it now guys and gals. The site is way better now. Guess they did their maintenance after all during the down period.

  104. Don says

    Samuel,
    It’s amazing to me the number of people caught up with these First Release/First Strike labels, which are just bogus methods for TPG (third party grading companies) to squeeze out more profits.
    As for myself, I keep the coins in the OGP and they never leave my possession. I utilize FPG (first party grading). This is another way of saying that I closely examine the coins for any visible flaws or imperfections. If they are not perfect to me they go back to the Mint. This FPG has saved me alot of money over the years.

  105. says

    Louis,
    I already know the dynamic is that taxpayers don’t subsidize coin collectors.
    My comment refers to the benefit that taxpayers get from the profits realized from the U.S. Mint offerings which at the end of the day reduce our national debt burden (even though the profits so accrued and assigned to the Federal Government National debt is but a teaspoon of dollars needed to make any practical difference to the reduction of National Debt.

    Anyhow, everybody enjoy your new ASEs!

  106. John says

    Just got email confirmation on a second order… shipping now up to 8/8/2013

  107. Saucexx says

    CO,

    Another thing that hasn’t been mentioned here is that the first orders in are the first shipped. Why that seemingly obvious fact matters is for those who want to flip, the first coins received are the most profitable. Last years sets had their greatest price appreciation immediately after the first orders shipped. By the time the last sets shipped months later the resale prices had been on a steady decline (along with many cancellations). I remember someone posted a prediction you could eventually buy them less than list. Funny enough that wasn’t too far off.

  108. Louis says

    Gary,
    Sorry, I read it quickly and did not realize what you meant.
    Enjoy your coins.

  109. Blair J. Tobler says

    I’m actually kind of glad I haven’t ordered yet – I really don’t have a lot of extra cash right now (vacation in two weeks), and an August ship (and CC charge) would work out better for me

  110. Dustyroads says

    After getting stuck at the Place Order tab for an hour I decided to log out then log back in, then I was able to order in less than a minute…or did I just order twice? I’ll soon find out!

  111. Louis says

    Suacexx- Exactly. I was just about to say the same thing. Of course the FS/ER business is artificial, but the point is in cases like this when orders are staggered according to when placed, those who get sets that are FS/ER eligible can profit from that, even without sending them in. I sold an unopened box of 2011 sets that was FS eligible for PCGS to a dealer and got around $150 more per set compared to non-FS. And look at the prices for the 2012 FS sets compared to non-FS.

  112. says

    Sauce,

    Good point, I hadn’t considered the issue of resale values going down over time.

    I would love to know the total number of orders between each of the three ship dates of 6/17, 7/25, and 8/8. I assume the 6/17 sets are those the mint has already produced, and the later sets are planned batches.

  113. Brad says

    #41494xxx

    Took 2 hours to get order fully processed, by internet finally.
    Phone was crashed also.
    Shipping date went from 6/17/13 on completion of order to
    8/08/13 when I received my e-mail confirmation.

    So did they spend the 2 billion to upgraded the site or not?
    If they did it was a waste of our money.

  114. Ray says

    i guess i’m glad i got my order in for a shipping date of 7/25. dont think i’d want to wait until august.

  115. Saucexx says

    Louis,

    My thought on the matter is I won’t pay extra for a FS/ER but if someone wants to pay me I’m all for it……

    CO, Last years sets had similar ship dates but they kept getting pushed back. IIRC it was because of the packaging. Those final sets shipped had almost no resale value.

  116. John says

    Blair J. Tobler,

    Your credit card will not be charged until the product ships, that’s one nice thing about the mint vs. pre-orders on eBay or other dealers. Bad thing is, if your C.C. expires you could loose your order.

  117. thePhelps says

    I got a 7/25 status on mine when I ordered. My silver proof set had an intial ship date of 5/15 and that was shipped yesterday – so I am guessing this ship date is an estimated ship date and nothing more. When I ordered the special proof set in December that went into an immediate hold and the ship date got moved out a couple of times as well. I am not overly concerned with when I get them as long as my order is in.

  118. art says

    Based on my USM experiences, early ordering does not mean early coin strikes. Often, I’ve had better luck ordering late. So the mad rush today when there is a four week ordering window is quite puzzling unless everyone thinks the quality will be better. As far as I know, it’s not and the distribution is probably completely arbitrary.

  119. John says

    I’m sure all orders today will be shipped in the first few days of shipping (past experience with 2011, SF sets & 5 oz Hot Springs). I just checked my last order and the date say 7/11 but first two showed later dates.

    For those who wonder about multiple ordering, in the past the mint has lost orders so I ship to my home & office as back up. It’s a pain but worth it.

  120. Saucexx says

    Art,

    IMHO you’re absolutely correct. With modern minting processes this whole FS/ER is an illusion, it’s nothing more than a marketing gimmick, Nonetheless some collectors pay a premium for it. Go figure.

  121. says

    As far as I know Art, the mint does not stack & ship coins in chronological order and dutifully issue the coins in a first in first out order. I believe they just make as much as possible as fast as possible and bulk store it at their distribution center. The First Strike accolade is really only a marketing scheme of 3rd party grading companies to “differentiate” their price point structure and increase profits to the grading companies. So much has been said of this First Strike nonsense for years but some collector’s want to pay extra for a meaningless adjectival description.
    Enjoy the coins just as Mint issued. That’s all that’s needed. Why do U.S. Mint products in general even need certification as to genuineness? A COA comes with the Mint product.

  122. GMS says

    Dealers place orders too, and capitalism is still legal last time I checked but apparently frowned upon by many.

  123. VaBeachEd says

    After trying online for about 2 hours, I also was on my cell phone at the same time around 2 p.m., because the page started to come up to call the Mint.
    It was my 21st call that I got all the way thru, it was about 2:05 p.m., a few times it said to do a survey after your order, then a busy signal !!!
    I ordered 5 sets, then 1 set. There were 90 orders in between my 2 orders (same call). My order numbers were #41491xxx and 90 after that one.

    2012 SF set I had not problem at all ordering 5 sets, then 2 sets on the Mint website, plus got 1 NGC 70 set, 1 PCGS 70 set John Mercanti FS and PCGS FS Flag lable in secondary market. In 2011 it took me about 1.5 hours to get my order of 5 sets on the Mint website, which are still in the sealed mint box and I also bought 2 PCGS sets graded First Strike 70’s John Mercanti.

    Someone ask why anyone would care about First Strike, Early Release or First Release? The answer to that question is value, later on down the road. I agree that a 70 grade is a 70, but some people will pay more for the early grading. That is the nature of the beast and to me a better investment, but that is just my opinion.

    Another person asked about how long you had to submit for Early Release, First Release or First Strike? It has always been my understanding that NGC had to receive your coins within 30days after the Mint starts shipping and PCGS you can ship at any time, but your coins have to be in the Mint sealed box dated within the first 30 days after the Mint started shipping.
    I collect for myself and also for my great nephew. He is the one that will see the increase in value over the coming years.

  124. Larry says

    Mints website said to come back and try later, but I went ahead anyway and got right in.

  125. fosnock says

    Thank goodness I avoid this mess. I still get flash backs about hitting that refresh button in 8 tabs on two browsers sessions from 2011

    CO,
    I’m not sure why you are surprised people go nuts for fancy labels. I’m like Larry, I don’t understand the hoopla. Even if I did understand it I don’t understand it in this case the First Strike and Early Releases designation is suppose to represent fresh dies but how fresh will the dies be after this rush, and how do you distinguish fresh dies when the entire production is being produced in a month so technically the entire mintage could qualify for the designation.

  126. Shutter says

    I just checked my last order and the date say 7/11 but first two showed later dates.

    All the “ship” dates are meaningless at this point. Generally, but not always, earlier orders ship first.

  127. Louis says

    It’s not true that the shipping will be in an arbitrary manner if past experience is any guide. Last year my first order was shipped much sooner than my second one which I placed later.

  128. fosnock says

    Louis – I think they are saying that the storage and shipping of the coins is arbitrary IE The mint will start to mint coins a week before they start to sell them So the “first strikes” will be at the bottom of the stack. When they start to sell them they grab the ones fresh off the press or they could grab then for the top of the stack. You are not guaranteed a coin minted with fresh dies. I have no idea if this is true but I believe that is what they are saying.

  129. Don says

    I do not have one graded coin in my collection of modern issue Mint products. If I did, however, I would not want a First Strike or Early Release designation on a slabbed coin. These bogus terms initiated with the TV coin shows in an attempt to dupe the buying public into believing that they are somehow getting more desirable and extra special graded coins. Of course this comes at an added cost. And the grading companies went along with this nonsense, no doubt to keep the business of these big-time TV dealers.

  130. dave says

    just ordered a set no problems at all, which i figured there wouldnt be after 4 pm

  131. thePhelps says

    @VaBeachEd – I am not going to try and tell you how this plays out.. but 5 years from now in my opinion this will be meaningless.

    “I agree that a 70 grade is a 70, but some people will pay more for the early grading. That is the nature of the beast and to me a better investment, but that is just my opinion.”

    The early stuff will have a label saying it is a FS/ER – whoppeee – how does that affect me as a buyer? It does nothing – if it is PF70 or FS-PF70 I am not paying extra to see that someone else thinks this has meaning. I’ll take the PF70 coin and go on my way thank you. In fact if my PF70 is cheaper because the seller is of the belief that FS coins have more value – awesome! but isn’t that like now creating a new grade for the coin market? It’s PF70 but it isn’t a FS-PF70 so it has less value… not in any books I look in.

    I’ll talk down FS/ER any chance I get because I don’t believe in it – and don’t believe it is good for collectors to believe it has any value in the coin collecting market. It is MARKETING and nothing else worth paying extra for.

  132. VaBeachEd says

    Dave,
    What were your first 5 numbers of your order # ?

    Thank you in advance.

  133. Louis says

    Fosnock- I agree on the dies. It is well established that there is no difference in quality. In fact, it is believed that the prooflike UHR double eagles were struck last.
    But I know the Mint has already produced a bunch of these sets over the past few months. James Bucki went to West Pt. a while back and saw them being made. We just don’t know how many are in the first batch, but I do think they will go to the ones who ordered first.
    Also, there is a set on display today at the ANA in New Orleans.

  134. simon says

    Let me say in total defense of OGP : My anniversary sets look totally awesome placed adjacent to each other in their mint issued cases !!!

  135. Shutter says

    I do not have one graded coin in my collection of modern issue Mint products. If I did, however, I would not want a First Strike or Early Release designation on a slabbed coin.

    Are you saying that if you were shopping for a slabbed coin, you’d go out your way (pay more) to get one without FS/ER designation?

  136. vaughnster says

    Whether you believe in the First Strike/Early Release is irrelevant. Year after year the coins graded with the FS/ER sell for a higher premium than those without the designation. I agree it’s a marketing ploy, but it works. We can whine about it but it won’t make it go away. Just my three cents 🙂

  137. Mark in Florida says

    Those First Strike labels are probably meaningless. When the Mint ships to the warehouse the first strikes are probably at the bottom of the warehouse stock, while the last ones in the door are the first ones out, so the people getting first strikes will be those who are last to order! But some people like to pay big money for labels!

  138. Don says

    Knowlegeable members of the coin collecting community (those educated in the nuances of coin collecting) would not pay a premium for these FS/ER labels. It is, in fact, the casual or novice collector that the TV coin dealers target. These dealers make every product they present sound like an absolutely great deal. There is good reason they put the clock and remaining item countdown on the screen, and that is to give a sense of urgency to the viewer/buyer.
    The FS/ER labels are among the best marketing ploys that these TV guys use. And, for that matter, ebay flippers also.

  139. Kevin says

    With FS you have to factor in the different label that will be used with this coin. Collectors like these labels and will pay extra to have the American Flag become part of their purchase of a coin. I personally think that this label looks a lot better and their will be fewer of them out their which makes it unique. First Strike labels also represent that the coin was sent in within the first 30 days and collectors like to know that the coin was slabbed right away and not stored in harsh conditions. I think First Strike is great on certain coin but surely not needed for every type of coin sent in for grading. For this west point set you would be crazy not to have first strike as part of you two coin set.

  140. simon says

    I’d much rather purchase the coin for the coin, and for what it symbolizes. One of my top favorites is the Lincoln cent !

  141. Bob says

    6th cent !!! LOL I couldn’t agree anymore with the previous comments. It really is too bad that for some it’s all about the label and NOT the coin although I do try to purchase the FS/ER as I consider my collection not only a hobby but an investment as well. If you’re going to purchase a muscle car would you want the one with a 283 engine or one with a 454? Just a thought, not sure if it’s a good comparison but I think you get the point. I wish everyone would just not buy the FS/ER, self included but it just doesn’t make a lot of sense as they aren’t going to discontinue the FS/ER notation. Thanks for the folks that comment here as I’ve learned a lot from you guys/gals.

  142. bigdawg says

    My dealer and i just had this talk,the only label he pointed out was the 2006 w 20 ann. Black label, he said they bring extra money ,but really everything else he buys 69 or 70 , no extra money for labels , these are just a ploy for dealers to take your hard earned money that is all it is, some of these dealers own the rights to these labels , such as chattanooga coins, everyone they sell is a plus for them

  143. Kevin says

    Also I have sold many coins and to some buyers if it isn’t fist strike, ER and First Day of Issue then they will not buy so don’t get caught living in past times

  144. VaBeachEd says

    thePhelps,

    I agree with you 100%, but as I noted, others want ER, FR or FS. If you go to eBay or watch any coin show you will see the price does sell higher than a MS-70 or PR-70. I have seen it too many times. Yesterday I bought 5, 2012-W (Burnished) ASE MS-70 cheaper than I could buy any FS or ER. As I said before, a 70 is a 70, to me, and most others, but go on-line and see if you can find a 70 for the same price as a FS, FR, or ER.

  145. art says

    Louis – yes – orders are shipped in order number order.
    But that has nothing to do with the strike order. fosnack gave a good explanation. If anyone has one iota of information or proof that strike order and product ordering order is related (not an opinion), we’re all ears.

  146. Kevin says

    VaBeachEd: The 2012 W burnished American Silver Eagle has to be the sleeper coin of the year!! The final mintage on this coin will be around 230000 to 240000 making it the fifth lowest silver eagle with a mint mark. That is amazing considering this isn’t a special anniversary set. I would load up with as many 70’s as you can get your hands on and talking about First Strike well the 2012 W Burnished American Silver Eagle graded 70 with first strike only has a population of 2,652. Even the 25th anniversary set has more graded at this level and only minted 100,000. Great buy!!!!

  147. art says

    Typo -fixed
    Louis – yes – orders are shipped in order number order.
    But that has nothing to do with the strike order. fosnack gave a good explanation. If anyone has one iota of information or proof that strike order and product ordering order are related (not an opinion), we’re all ears

  148. Ray says

    My order history now says: ” Expected to ship on 07/11/2013.”

    I bought these coins because I like them. I dont see any value/worth/appreciation in these unless I was to sell them before I got them, which isnt happening.

  149. Dan in Fla says

    My first two orders will ship on 6/17 and the later order is not dated to ship until 7/11/13.

  150. Micro says

    The Mint has stated in the past that they do not keep the coins in any sort of order that provides first-in-first-out. Add to that they are trucked from the mints to Pitney-Bowes somewhere near Chicago for packaging and shipping to individual purchasers, and I can see the order becoming very random. Now the orders are processed in the order received, but the coins themselves have probably been shuffled like a deck of cards.

  151. Louis says

    Art- I never claimed the coins labeled 1st strike are actually stuck first. This has been well established for years. There was even a lawsuit about it.

  152. Don says

    bigdawg,
    Your dealer friend gave you some good insights. When you go to sell the WP set(s) to a coin shop several years from now, the proprieter won’t give a hoot as to what type of grading labels are on the coins. He might even offer the same price for a set in OGP, as these become more desirable as their population decreases over the years. It is very easy for him to establish a grading opinion by examining the coins under a high resolution magnifier.

  153. VaBeachEd says

    Kevin:
    “The 2012 W burnished American Silver Eagle has to be the sleeper coin of the year!! The final mintage on this coin will be around 230000 to 240000 making it the fifth lowest silver eagle with a mint mark.”

    I am glad you caught that, that is the reason I have been trying to pick up what I can, before everyone knows it. I guess everyone will know about it now!!!

  154. dave says

    VaBeachEd

    order number was 41503xxx

    and im also one of those collectors who can care less about those useless lables (FS etc) im a collector and im happy getting my OGP set

  155. bigdawg says

    Hi low silver did not mention pcgs just thought if anyone new anything about coin collecting you would know it was ngc

  156. rpw says

    Tried to order on the web but like everyone – it was dead. Order over the Phone was completed at 12:11pm. Order Number 41479XXX.
    Sure hope this mintage is lower then the 75th San Fran Set but seriously doubt it given the “Enhanced” version. What’s up with the “NEW” Ship date listed on the Mint Web Page? It now shows a shipping of July 25th.

  157. bigdawg says

    I asked my dealer if there was any dealer sheet for early or different labels , he said no just prices for ngc and pcgs ms and proof grades , but nothing for labels, so if there is a dealer that will pay more for a er label than a reg ms 70 , please let me know cause i have a bridge i would like to sell him. I have been to hundreds of shows, they only pay me for ms70 or proof 70 and that is it i agree people will pay more on ebay ,and they are not going to get anymore for them unless they resell on ebay, and that is not for sure

  158. high low silver says

    Or ANACS ? The. Black holder didn’t become popular untill 2011……..

  159. Don says

    Do any of you have any knowledge of, or have observed, the coin grading process? What type of gloves go the graders wear? Do they take the gloves off before eating a tuna sandwich or wiping their nose? Do they wear any type of face mask so their respiratory vapor or sneeze droplets don’t find their way onto a coin? Are the working surfaces and floors padded to prevent damage to dropped coins? Are the premises kept dust-free to prevent unwanted air particles from landing on the exposed coin? Do the graders wear any type of hat to prevent dandruff from getting on a coin? Are long sleeved shirts required so dead arm skin doesn’t flake off onto the coin? Etc., etc.

    OGP works for me.

  160. bigdawg says

    Don you are right i have seen pcgs and ngc ms 70 coin that look like someone sneezed on them

  161. bigdawg says

    High low silver what are you resting your case about get on ebay and look at them

  162. rpw says

    VaBeachEd

    I agree with your assessment 100%. The FS/ER designations do matter (even though we may not like it).
    I’ve argued this point before — you can ALWAYS take the coin back out of the slab and put it back into OGP if you want to but you cannot do the opposite – and get an ER designation so — why not just get the designation. I hate the idea of paying for it but in the end – it will be worth it. Not to mention – it protects the coin better! In reality – the fewer people that get the designations – the better for those who did. Once a coin has the PF70 MS 70 designation – it’s unlikely to grade less where as if you wait — the more that get graded as 70’s – the less chance yours will also get graded a 70 (in my opinion) even if it really is a 70. Reason: They ALL CAN’T BE PERFECT. In the end – it’s a personal choice and since it’s not going to go away – may as well join ’em!

  163. Samuel says

    Don, i like OGP as you do, i dont like slabed. but thats reality. there is a video at ngc website that shows how graders work. basically bare hands hold the rim. i recently bought a 70 coin with proof-like rim, i actually can see the finger prints all over the rim.

    the following is the link:
    “Your Coin’s Journey Through NGC”
    http://www.ngccoin.com/Coin-Video-Archive.aspx

  164. simon says

    Don :

    I have substantial evidence (photo micrographs) that PCGS processes include coating coins with lacquer, harsh etching to remove lacquer, dropping coins on the floor, leaving abrasive marks, ultrasonic cleaning (a big no-no), and then denying it all. And, YES they do use their fingers to handle your coins because it is safer that way ! And Finally – ” OUR GRADE IS GUARANTEED ! ” 😉

  165. TheCoinKeeper says

    kinda off topic; how much did the 2006 silver eagle anniversary set sell for originally?

  166. VaBeachEd says

    rpw:

    I think we see it the same way, but others do not. The best way to make the case is to refer people to Coin Shows (tv) or eBay.

  167. Patrick says

    Almost 38000 orders from the time I placed my first order and six hours later when I placed my second.

  168. Don says

    TheCoinKeeper,
    The price of the ’06 set was $100. The three coins came encased in an acrylic lens, similar to the way proof coins are packaged. If I recall, it took over two weeks before the 250,000 order limit was reached. I regret that I only purchased one set, as they have increased significantly in value over the initial issue price.

  169. Gary says

    The 2006 Silver Anniversary 3 coin set was priced at $100 and had a 10 per household limit. Still an awesome set to this day!

  170. rpw says

    VaBeachEd

    I hate TPG but if even ONE person does it and their coin suddenly becomes worth more – that changes it for everyone – regardless of what anyone else says. The fact in every case is simply this: It’s only worth what someone else will pay for it – in a slab or not. I learned my lesson last year and now don’t take any chances. If others don’t want to get TPG – Honestly — All the better for me.

    I do like the fact that I can inspect/photograph my coins BEFORE I send them to NGC this time. That is not always the case and I have a real problem with that.

  171. JEFF in TX. says

    @TheCoinKeeper. The 2006 3 coin set case was $100.00 to buy from the mint site.

  172. Don says

    rpw and others,
    I understand your assessment that these bogus FS/ER labels are a necessary evil for those wishing to sell the coins at the highest possible price.
    But it sure doesn’t do the coin hobby any good to have these meaningless labels affixed to the slabbed coins. Again, the uninformed TV buyers are easily persuaded by professional sellers that it is to one’s great advantage to own such a labeled coin. Evidently there are also enough ebay buyers to jump on these labeled coin at a premium price. And rpw, you’re right: these designations are not destined to go away any time soon.

    A second call to HiHoSilver: Are you still out there or are you taking a hiatus?

  173. Addielise says

    Has anyone confirmed if they’ll have the sales counter again this year? Either they didn’t make as many sets in advance, or they sold twice as many on the first day compared to last year’s SF set.

  174. rpw says

    Looks like it’s gonna be an EXPENSIVE year buying coins!
    Next on the radar is the 5oz ATB next week.
    Then the ASE Uncirculated
    Then the Gold Buffalo
    Then “Hopefully” the Reverse Proof Buffalo
    And all other 2013 5oz ATB’s .

    Man — This hobby is expensive!!!!!!!!

  175. says

    When all is said and done, for the WP set, my collection will include one set in OGP, one NGC Early Release 70 set and one PCGS 70 First Strike set.

    And beyond that I will have several sets graded, sell them and end up with all for sets for free.

  176. Don says

    Steve,
    Good luck with your plan/strategy for selling the WP sets. Nothing is certain, and the secondary market demand for these sets is yet to play out. It does seem like alot of effort and energy that will be expended on your part for your plan to reach fruition. But, heh, who knows? If you are willing to take the risk, the more power to you.

  177. says

    Don,
    Really, I don’t know how these coins will grade or how things will play out.
    For the 25th annv sets I had eight sets graded and 80% came back 70’s and I did very well.

    Last year for the SF sets I submitted 10 sets and did way below average…only about 20% 70’s…I would of lost money had I not bought some PCGS 70 sets early on for a good price.

    So yes, it’s a crap shoot, I just enjoy the game. But bottom line, I love collecting these coins, and if I can sell some and make some money, then great.

  178. says

    ot…as Louis mentioned earlier, the White Mountain bullion coins are selling very fast….APMEX is down to 53 available right now…of course, this is just the first wave and there should be amply supply down the road…the main question is…is silver at or near a bottom and should I buy now?

  179. Don says

    Steve,
    The Mint’s quality control on the 2012 SF sets left a lot to be desired. I recall from reading the postings that many buyers had to return damaged or defective sets. I was one of these buyers. It’s really a bummer to have to go through the process of returning a set(s) to the Mint and hope that the replacement set will be problem-free.

    I hope this WP set does not have the quality control issues of last year’s SF set, and the majority grade out 70 for those who get them graded.

  180. says

    Don,
    What is funny, i I had to send the 25th annv sets to NGC site unseen. So I lucked out.

    I had the advantage of inspecting the SF coins before I sent them in…guess that goes to show I didn’t do a good job..lol

  181. John says

    IMO, I think this set will sell less than the SF set. The main reason is the price of silver. Some see the price as being too much above spot & are not taking into consideration that this will have a unique coin. Those of us that buy World Mint coins are used to paying higher premiums so it still seems like a bargain to us.

    Next, the lack luster secondary market on the SF set will also dampen sales (I think). Last year I bought 12 sets 8 on first day and 4 on last day. Once I saw the premiums drop I cancelled my 4 that had not shipped. The same thing will happen this time unless the mint doesn’t report weekly sales that Michael will post on coinupdate.com (I’ll be watching carefully). This year I’ve only ordered 6 but plan to get some MS/PR70’s if the price is right.

    As for the FS/ER label, I only buy them if it doesn’t cost me more. I go by the grade presented and even then I’ve seen MS70 / PR70 that don’t meet my naked eye approval! However since I sell coins to pay for my collecting hobby I buy the coins with the highest margin and the FS/ER label do the trick a lot of the time.

  182. someone says

    ” Samuel says:
    May 9, 2013 at 8:35 pm

    Don, i like OGP as you do, i dont like slabed. but thats reality. there is a video at ngc website that shows how graders work. basically bare hands hold the rim. i recently bought a 70 coin with proof-like rim, i actually can see the finger prints all over the rim.”

    This information disappoints me. I suppose if I ever send off anything to be graded (unlikely, after what I’ve seen from those videos), it will be clad coins only.

  183. Shutter says

    you can ALWAYS take the coin back out of the slab and put it back into OGP if you want to but you cannot do the opposite – and get an ER designation so — why not just get the designation. I hate the idea of paying for it

    If you are getting “West Point Eagle Set” designation from NGC, there will be no additional premium for ER.

  184. John says

    Here’s a coin where FS / ER might bring an “extra large” premium one day. The 2008 ASE with reverse of ’07. The fact that it was found early might appeal to some.

    I can’t believe that the prices are still as low as they are… a real sleeper considering that a 1995-W sold for over $86K recently and this coin’s mintage number isn’t much higher.

  185. Mark in Florida says

    How do you tell how many APMEX has left? I don’t see it on the item page.

  186. fosnock says

    @Mark- I always put 999 in as the purchase quantity if their are less than 999 units it will throw a pop up and tell you how many are left for purchase.

  187. im just a bill says

    John says:
    May 9, 2013 at 3:32 pm

    Blair J. Tobler,

    Your credit card will not be charged until the product ships, that’s one nice thing about the mint vs. pre-orders on eBay or other dealers. Bad thing is, if your C.C. expires you could loose your order.
    /quote
    ———————————————————————————-

    Im glad you guys mentioned this, my cc expires in july. So Thank You!!

    I had a 7/27 ship date, but I canceled that one. I paid with a diff cc and now its 8/8.

    whew!

  188. Rich D says

    If your credit card is going to expire before they ship your order. Just call customer service and gave them your order number,and your new C.C. info. (FIRST) Then go on line and change your billing method on your profile..

  189. Don says

    Samuel,
    Thanks for letting us know that there is a video entitled “Your Coin’s Journey Through NGC”, in which the graders work with ungloved hands. How would you like your coin graded by a worker who just lunched on a greasy burger and fries and resumed work without washing his hands? No charge for the extra grease on the coins. How about a worker who returns to the grading table after going to the bathroom and not washing his hands? Permanently encapsulated E-Coli anyone? What about a worker who picks his nose while grading a coin? No thanks.
    I’ll stay with OGP, thank you.

  190. Don says

    Another word or two on those bogus ER/FS grading designations. Wouldn’t it be more appropriate and truthful to use EG (early grading) or FB (first batch) labels for coins sent to the TPG companies within a specified time limit? Some people just have a need for superfluous labels and designations.

  191. John says

    Don, you’re correct!

    At least “Early Release” is less misleading. There can only be one coin that is a “First Strike”. I think that the Perth Mint makes a big deal about this and people line up on New Year’s Eve for a chance to strike & receive an authenticated “First Strike” coin. As for TPG… all BS, but give the people what they want, the illusion of FS / ER.

  192. Dan in AZ says

    Each time the die(s) are changed with the old removed and a new in place, those first few coins that are struck are “First Strike”, but there is no way to capture that information. Now if the Mint wanted to mess with the TPG’s, they could set aside the first 10 or 20 in some sort of serialized tray that made it all the way to the packaging with the S/N on the package and offer those sets up each time they did a die change. Then the TPG’s would have to create a special “real” First Strike label

  193. Blair J. Tobler says

    I’m Just a Bill:

    When I ordered the SF ASE set last year, my card had expired when they tried to ship. They put the order on hold, and then sent me an email saying I had to call them to give new CC info within 10 days or it would be cancelled. So don’t panic if your expiration gets close, they will give you a chance to fix it before cancelling the order.

  194. Brad says

    Don,

    GREAT comment @ 3:43 am! I seldom use these silly abbreviations, but that one did make me ROTFLMAO. 🙂

    Everything you said about the TPG could be very true. The same thing applies when we go out to eat at a restaurant. We don’t know what kind of horrors our food has gone through, we just eat it and hope for the best!

  195. Shutter says

    They put the order on hold, and then sent me an email saying I had to call them to give new CC info within 10 days or it would be cancelled.

    They don’t always send an email and there could be other problems. So, if your order is on hold and the items are “In stock and reserved”, give them a call too. You may also need to call the credit card company to make sure they approve the charge.

  196. Shutter says

    For all those complaining about the misleading nature of ER/FS designation, please answer this question. If the Mint decided to collude in this scam and actually collude with TPG and dealers and set aside a certain number of coins struck first, would that make any difference to you. For example, the Perth mint does this several times a year and you end up with something like <a href="http://www.paradisemint.com/2013-Australia-1oz-Silver-High-Relief-Kookaburra-NGC-PF70-UC-One-of-first-500-Struck-Flag-Label_p_3505.html"this. Does “One of first 500 Struck” mean anything more to you, even if it is more “honest”.

  197. stephen m says

    I’m sure the TV people harp heavy on the label but, dang, how many people buy off of a TV show? It must be a lot of folks if the TV shows account for the sales of E.R. & F.S. labels.That ms 2006w 20th anniversary black label is selling, the last time i followed one, somewhere around 700.00 but only brings such a high price in the black label and not other labels. So it looks as though some labels do bring more money. Why?, i don’t know. Anyone have any ideas why that coin brings more money in that black label? The 2008 w/the 2007 reverse should do well in the future, graded or not, and that’s another coin i ask myself why it’s not bringing more now? I have my 2 wp sets on order and look foward to the enhanced version of the ase coin.

  198. Dan in AZ says

    Shutter:

    If I were interested in buying a slabbed (graded) coin and the highest grade that can be obtained is 70, it should not matter whether it’s ER/FS, etc … I’m just saying that just because a coin is shipped on the 1st day vs. one that is shipped on the 60th day it should not be the criteria for ER/FS, since the best coins will always be those that were amongst the first that a particular die was used. It’s common sense (the more times a die is used the the more it wears – that’s the reason that they replace them as often as they do).

    If the mint had a way to serial the coins on a per die basis, that would be a more accurate measure of FS than merely submitting them as close as possible to the first day of release.

    I agree with others that the TPG’s use this and other labels as a marketing means and that many people “buy” into this (defies logic). It’s as if they are “buying the label more than they are buying the coin”.

  199. thePhelps says

    @Dan
    “It’s as if they are “buying the label more than they are buying the coin”.”

    It isn’t as if – it is exactly what they are doing.

    @Shutter

    It may be a matter of collusion, but if the Mint and TPG did do that – at least it would be more realistic than putting a label that says the coin is shipped in the 1st 30 days – and convincing buyers that it means “something”. When in reality it means absolutely nothing.

    To me what is almost as bad as them doing it – is experienced coin buyers accepting it and not being insulted that TPG and 2nd party resellers are hyping this BS. If you are selling these as anything other than the grading on them, you are being just as deceptive as they are. (IMO)

  200. Shutter says

    It may be a matter of collusion, but if the Mint and TPG did do that – at least it would be more realistic than putting a label that says the coin is shipped in the 1st 30 days – and convincing buyers that it means “something”.

    Other than this need to enforce honesty, would you really care if it could be proved that the coin minted was #1000 or #100000.

  201. Dan in AZ says

    If they both graded the same, I would not care. I suspect over time one would know that up to #5000 or some number would grade 70, then the next #### would likely grade 69, etc …

  202. says

    Watch the TPG’s change their rules. Presently they state that Early/First releases will only be given to coins received within 30 days of the first order taking date. If shipping starts in mid June, no one will get those labels (except for the big buyers. Bet, we see a change.

  203. rpw says

    @Dan in AZ:

    I’ve contemplated the Mint Serial Numbering coins as a way around TPG’s/dealers cheating people —in many ways —including “swapping” coins.
    In the thought process – I determined that if serial numbering were to happen – the only way it should happen if if the Serial Numbers are RANDOM — not in order they are minted. If they were numbered sequentially – the possibility would still exist that “dealers” or “mass buyers” could/would get the first dibs before the retail collector/investor. I have no doubt it can be done using a random generator and numbering the coins on the edge – no different than current edge lettering – just not sure how that is accomplished currently.

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