The Return of Silver Eagle Rationing

silver-eagleLate yesterday, the United States Mint informed authorized purchasers that the 2013 American Silver Eagle bullion coins had temporarily sold out. This comes only ten days after the coins were initially made available for ordering and following a three week period of unavailability due to the early sell out of the 2012-dated coins.

Sales of the 2013 Silver Eagle bullion coins will remain suspended until the Mint can build up an inventory of the coins. The Mint expects that sales will resume on or about the week of January 28, 2013 under the allocation process. The “allocation process” refers to a system of rationing the available silver bullion coins amongst authorized purchasers during times when demand exceeds the supply.

As long time readers will remember, Silver Eagle sales suspensions and rationing had occurred somewhat regularly during the years of 2008 to 2010, when a surge in demand for silver bullion exceeded the US Mint’s ability to produce the coins. Besides the implications to precious metals investors of higher premiums and delivery delays, there were also implications for collectors.

The 2008 Proof Silver Eagle became “unavailable” in August and never resumed sales. It was later revealed that the US Mint had been diverting all incoming silver blanks to the production of bullion coins rather than collector coins which were not legally required. In 2009, all proof and uncirculated Gold and Silver Eagles were canceled as the problems fulfilling demand for bullion coins persisted. For much of 2010, the status of collector coins remained in doubt as the US Mint continued to ration bullion coins. The rationing was finally lifted on September 2, which cleared the way for a very late release of 2010 Proof Gold and Silver Eagles.

Although rationing was imposed for the initial release of the 2011-dated Silver Eagle bullion coins, it was soon lifted and became a thing of the past. Numismatic offerings, for the most part, returned to their normal schedules and availability throughout 2011 and 2012.

Silver Eagle Rationing in 2013

The allocation or rationing of Silver Eagle bullion coins in 2013 will have some different aspects than the rationing of the past.

At this point we do not know the specific bottleneck or issues which have caused two sales suspensions and the return of the allocation program. However, this time around the US Mint might have a more difficult time resolving the disparity between production and demand. Last time, the US Mint took numerous steps over the course of several years to bolster production to the level necessary to meet full demand. This included process improvements at the West Point Mint, expanding the number of precious metals blanks suppliers, and adding supplemental production at the San Francisco Mint. What additional steps can the US Mint take at this point to bolster production even more, and how long would they take to implement?

This time the US Mint may not be under as much pressure to resolve the shortage. Almost immediately after the initial suspensions of 2008 and the adoption of the allocation program, many bullion investors called attention to the fact that the US Mint was legally required to mint and issue American Gold and Silver Eagle bullion coins in “quantities sufficient to meet public demand.” This legal requirement added some pressure and probably unwanted attention to the situation. Eventually, the Mint would have the operations of its bullion program scrutinized at a Congressional hearing.

Now, the production requirements for bullion coins have been quietly changed with the passage of the Coin Modernization, Oversight, and Continuity Act of 2010. The requirement was modified to the more ambiguous “quantities and qualities that the Secretary determines are sufficient to meet public demand.” This leaves the door open to the Treasury Secretary to make an independent determination of the quantity of bullion coins sufficient to meet public demand, regardless of the actual quantity necessary to meet demand.

Finally, on a more positive note, this round of rationing is less likely to have implications for collector versions of the American Gold and Silver Eagles. The same Act that obfuscated the production requirement also added greater discretion for the Secretary of the Treasury to mint and issue collector versions of the coins. As such, the US Mint will be able to offer proof and uncirculated quality Gold and Silver Eagles to collectors irrespective of the bullion situation.

At the time of this post, the US Mint’s website shows month to date Silver Eagle bullion coins sales at 6,007,000. This figure, which accounts for only ten days of ordering, has nearly reached the full month total from the year ago period of 6,107,000.

Month to date sales of Gold Eagle bullion coins are also progressing at a faster rate with 121,500 ounces sold so far. In the year ago period, the full month total was 127,000.


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Comments

  1. Chuck says

    And then yesterday as covered in your previous article the mint places the sold out sign on the Hawaii UNC coins. I’m trying to understand the overall logic as viewed from letting the 2011s sell through 2012 and clearly announcing it well ahead of time. Hawaii came out of nowhere. Plus, why not cancel El Yunque which has sold more. Why pick Hawaii?

    Curious goings on me thinks.

  2. simon says

    The appetite for ASE bullion shows the resilience of the ASE program. The demand and the stats are truly amazing. This may however put away a quick resolution of the Pd coins we await from the Mint.

  3. Ed says

    Gold to take 7 YEARS to move from US to Germany, US Mint runs out of Silver, quietly changes rules so that 1 man determines what “sufficent” means and how much can be profited by moving to “proof” rather than bullion (more margin it would seem, i.e. profit for the government). Chinese Gold Demand not counted for in official world demand (800+ tons in 2012). Anyone else getting the feeling that the ship is getting ready to sail on prices where they are currently?

  4. EvilFlipper says

    Oh yeah. I’ll be ordering a few extra proofs of all kinds this year. If that buffalo set gets released…. Oh. The. Humanity.
    I knew this year would be exciting. Damn. This is why I love this blog!!!

  5. Dan in Fla says

    My Buffalo came in last week. I had a feeling they would sell out early. and they did.
    Thanks Michael for keeping us up to date.

  6. Frankie says

    Everyone calm done! :)
    The ASE’s will be available again and without these ridiculous premiums that are being asked for right now. 6M coins already – not exactly low mintage! These will be worth spot and a bit regardless if the mint will stop production or not for the year. Patience is a virtue!

  7. says

    Michael, thanks for covering the implications of the rationing on the numismatic program. I didn’t really recall the details of the steps Congress took to correct the problems in 2008-2010.

    Chuck, what I think is going on is the “Perth-ization” of the US Mint.

    At first I was confused by the sellouts, but I’m increasingly convinced this is a deliberate strategy by the Mint to try to gin up secondary market premiums via the combination of low sales numbers and “surprise” sellouts. We’ve had Lucy Hayes, the S quarters, and the annual sets all develop considerable strength on eBay since the mint pulled them. I haven’t looked for Hawaii numbers yet but I’d bet premiums are spiking right now.

    In the specific case of the AtBs, Hawaii was likely pulled as it is the most popular of the five coins this year and is the most likely to generate premiums on the secondary markets. You’ll note that before these sudden sellouts, a lot of people were saying they were going to abandon the uncirculated AtBs and not buy White Mountain because of the premium increases. How many of these people are going to change their minds if the AtBs suddenly start bringing in big premiums?

    Of course this strategy may backfire, but so far it seems like it could be working. I am betting a lot of people will be buying White Mountain now.

  8. HistoryStudent says

    @ Capt.OK (pun intended) Well thought out and logical, for the US Mint is a retail plus premium coin shop at first. And copying the other big mints like premium PLUS UK’s mint makes more profit as they really screwed up last year at the US minty. Nice ATB comment on the 2013s at $245 each too.

    Second, I believe ED may be onto something too. There are going to be supply and demand problems on steroids soon.

    Remember the US Mint is making more different coins in 30 some years (1999 to 2029) than they did in the previous 200 years from the GET-GO. Tha’ts gotta cause problems: and we’ve seen many the last few years.

    Kinda like LUCY at the Chocolate Factory and I can’t seem to buy and put all those coins in my big moth at the same time.

    ~HS

  9. Boz says

    So if the government lost money on every ase it produced last year, what would be the advantage of it being in any hurry to resume sales? Tea party and NRA where is your outrage?

  10. Mark in Florida says

    I also wondered if the higher prices for 5 oz AtB might be due to buying blanks when the price of silver was higher.

  11. Chuck says

    CaptainOverkill,

    Why is it important for the Mint to keep the P pucks going?

    Seems to me the eagles are the backbone of the product line. The UNC ATBs are a drop in the bucket and can be cancelled in a heartbeat.

  12. KEITHSTER says

    Man havn’t you guys been filling out the surveys?. I must of had 15 in the last month or two.they ask you what you want to make it better.? Lower Mintages More Products less lingering sales.Seems they know how to work it.They know where the money is the flippers the investors the specs. sure the collector will maybe buy one or two. But these other guys will get ten or twenty or the dealers or the Big boys who knows how many they get at a crack looks like a lot. So enjoy hop in hang on and lets go for a ride. Missed the Buff.No muns no funds but they made enough so I can find one latter.We don’t have a shortage of the ASE they do and you know them silver eagles are also an antibiotic so if you grind them small enough and snort them you should’nt need a flu shot %% Good luck were going to need it !!!

  13. says

    Chuck,

    They could cancel the AtB five ounce coin series, but obviously it would be better for the US Mint if they could find a way to turn the series around instead and make money off it. Retooling it as a “Perth style” series with high premiums and low mintages is one way to potentially do that.

    I should hasten to add I don’t like this strategy much and would prefer the coins to remain cheap, I am just trying to explain what I think could be going on here.

  14. Zaz says

    This is merely a repeat of 2009 when everything got pared down in favor of increasing the ASE output. Lower mintages are going to rule the roost this year, until the flippers make big profits and the accountants and marketers at the Mint see $$ $$ in their eyes and start the cycle of increase all over again. 2011 with its oversupply will happen again, this one mistake they are good at repeating over and over again. Good times!

  15. says

    Dan, you might only be kidding, but a five ounce silver eagle would actually probably sell better than the current AtBs are. I’m surprised the mint hasn’t tried to make one yet. Perhaps that will be coming down the road in a “special” set of some kind.

  16. Ikaika says

    Off the topic, I am not sure how many of you noticed that the release schedule for the ATBs P are also in the “to be determined” along with the FS and medal set. The ATBs release dates were scheduled already, but apparently the mint changed its mind. Let’s hope that all of these products won’t be released between Oct-Dec :(

  17. Pool Shark says

    A few thoughts and a couple questions re: 5-oz. Atb bullion:

    1) We know that the Mint has announced the completion of 2012 production for the 5-ounce Atb bullion.
    2) With Gettysburg and Glacier selling out at a mintage of exactly 126,700 each; it’s probably safe to assume none of the 2011 issues exceeded this figure.
    3) The Mint is now apparently discounting 2011 Atb’s to the AD’s.
    4) Yesterday’s Mint sales figures show new sales of the remaining (now discounted) 2011 issues (Olympic, Vicksburg, Chickasaw), yet no new sales of any of the 2012 issues.
    5) The Hawaii numismatic coin (the most popular 2012 issue) sold out in record short order.
    6) Nevertheless, total sales of the Chaco, Denali, and Hawaii bullion issues have been stuck at exactly 20,000 for several weeks, with Acadia at 25,400 and El Yunque at 21,900.
    7) The Mint has announced an increase of $15.00 ($3.00/ounce) for the upcoming 2013 numismatic Atb’s.
    8) The Mint now has an apparent shortage of 1-ounce ASE blanks.
    9) The 2012 Mint Report shows the Atb bullion program is the biggest (by percentage) loser of any of the Mint’s four bullion programs.

    Given this state of affairs, is it not likely that:

    A) The Mint will produce very limited mintages (if any) of the 2013 Atb bullion coins?
    B) The Mint has already sold ALL of it’s 2012 bullion Atb’s, but hasn’t yet announced the fact?
    C) The total mintage for the 2012 Atb’s was no more than around 26,000 for the early releases (El Yunque, Chaco, Acadia), and 20,000 for the later releases (Hawaii, Denali)?
    D) At only a 7.8% premium over melt, and with extremely limited mintages (~20,000 compared to over 33,000,000 for ASE’s) doesn’t the Atb bullion program present one of the best potential numismatic values from the US Mint?

    Any thoughts?

  18. CB says

    I think there is a serious shortage of silver going on. If they had them scheduled (the 5 ouncers)and now they’ve removed them from the list to be determined at so further date? They aren’t able to obtain enough silver. This is getting interesting.

  19. says

    Pool Shark,

    Very interesting set of theories. I’ll respond to each in the same format.

    1. The main thing to recall is that the Mint is legally required to produce the AtB bullion coins. So, SOME quantity will get produced, but you are right that will probably be low. Maybe 15,000-20,000?
    2. I think it’s a given that the Mint is sold out of the 2012 AtB bullion coins by now
    3. Can’t speak to this but it sounds plausible
    4. Several others have suggested this in the past though you’ve presented some fresh evidence for it. One thing to keep in mind, though, is that if mintages get ridiculously low – under 10,000 – you might see the APs start to charge premiums like they did in 2010. You can barely call the AtB bullion coins “bullion” properly now as it is.

  20. Pool Shark says

    Captain:

    Those were my thoughts exactly: with such limited mintages, the Atb’s are looking less, and less like bullion, and more and more like a special US Mint commemorative.

    As for point number 3, I was referring to this article from 2 days ago:
    http://www.coinworld.com/Articles/ViewArticle/mint-sells-2011-bullion-coins-at-discounts

    Anyway, look at the premiums currently commanded for the 2010 bullion issues (which had fixed mintages of 27,000). If the late 2012 issues come in at only 20,000 minted; the premiums are likely to be at least as large…

  21. Brad says

    Cleveland,

    Were you the one who was asking for advice on which Buffalo to buy a few weeks ago, when I recommended gambling on the 2012 instead of the 2011? It turns out that may have been good advice. Too bad I didn’t gamble on it myself! But, I can’t get everything. I finally pulled the trigger on all 8 of the 2012 First Spouse coins I needed to keep my Proof and Unc sets going, and that set me back almost $8,000.

    Anyway, if you did buy the 2012 Buffalo, I hope you do very well with it!

  22. Jeremy says

    All this “numismatic” frenzy, and although it may take years, is going to end in tears! Once the world’s economic issues are resolved and stabilized people will likely abandon precious metals and an ASE selling for $3000.00 plus will become history. TULIP MANIA!!!!! ;)

  23. im just a bill says

    Pool Shark, the 2010 bullion atb’s finished @ 33,000, the P pucks (numismatic) were 27,000. Thus, the 20,000 mintage will be even rarer than the 2010 bullion. I was thinking the same thing too. Plus, the Denail and Volcano design are a few of the best! Yes it might be time to pick up an extra, and being so close to spot… win win!

    I stopped buying the P pucks after 2010 and sold the ones i had with the exception of Hot Springs. The first in the series will always command a higher premium. The bullion ones are the best tho, shinier and cheaper.

    They are beautiful pieces.

  24. ClevelandRocks says

    @Brad: I actually bought an aftermarket pf70 for quite a bit more than issue price after the backorder status (price up significantly from previous day). I snoozed and lost, but have a strong feeling prices will climb when final numbers are out (maybe 20k max….less than 2k (only 10%) more than ’08s).

  25. Ikaika says

    @ ClevelandRocks

    From the pattern we are seeing it is very likely that the next proof buffalos will come in with even lower mintage numbers. The economy is not improving, PM is not going down anytime soon. IMHO these 20K mintage buffalos may sell for close to bullion down the road. Thats what a 2007 FS 70 grade is going for these days. Mintage is also around 20K if my memory is correct. I know some might say this is like comparing apples and oranges, but we are seeing a general trend here :)

  26. hi ho silver says

    What did you pay for that FS ? They were selling for about $450 at the Mint most of 2007.?.

  27. me says

    why would someone (16 people ) pay 76 $ for a 2013 ase proof when you can buy them much cheaper from mint?

  28. val says

    Rationing one ounce silver bullion coins??? Is this happening anywhere else at mints located in other countries?

  29. John says

    The ASE bullion shortage is probably only so the mint can make a few hundred thousand of the more profitable ASE Proofs at almost 100% mark up vs. $2 – $3 mark up for the bullion coins.

    Ikaika,

    Nice catch on the removal of the ATBs on the mint’s web site. I was just there yesterday and the price & dates were up.

    As for the 5 oz. ATB-P vs. ASE Burnished or Proof, the premium is still lower for the ATBs. Mintage of 15K – 27K for the ATB vs. hundreds of thousands for ASE. IMHO the ATB will command higher premiums in the long term. I’ve flipped several bullion & numismatic ATB for profits that are much higher than the ASE. I enjoy the 5 oz ATB but I only keep the designs that I find appealing.

  30. Louis says

    Kudos to everyone for one of the best discussions in a while.

    I got my silver quarters today and Ft. McHenry looks much better than the art work. Mt. Rushmore and the Perry phallic symbol still don’t do it for me. The other two are okay and should look good in the big format. I will spring for the McHenry even at the crazy new prices, but not the others probably.

    John- Other than when things were going crazy with the 2010 bullion versions, how have you been able to make good profits on these? Are you getting the Mint ones graded and selling 70′s? Because otherwise I have the sense that they are all still basically only worth melt, though I agree that will change later.

  31. Buzz Killington says

    I have to agree with Jeremy that the economic uncertainly can’t last forever, and neither can these PM prices. It is advice everyone has heard, and yet has difficulty following: buy low, sell high. Whatever else the short term might hold, PM prices are at very high levels historically.

    I think the reason that ASEs can sell 6 million in a month, and there is nowhere near a comparable demand for 5 oz. pieces is that those pieces just aren’t COINS. They might be rare and attractive, but I have to say for me, as a collector of coins, they just don’t appeal to me. They are just too big. I just don’t see someone a generation from now trying to build a set of these GIANT pieces.

  32. Ikaika says

    @ John

    As a collector of the ATBs, I printed the release schedule early this month before they decided to remove it. The spread was 2/12/13, April, June, Sept and Nov. That was ideal for buyers because of the gap. My major concern is if the mint decides to release all the coins in 1-2 months it will for sure affect the budget of many. Especially those wanting to buy other coins like the FS.

    @ Louis

    What is your opinion on this matter?

  33. T1 browserman says

    someone asked either here or the previous post where to buy silver bullion and i came across this dealer in Florida with free shipping moderncoinwholesale.com …I picked up my 2012 Presidential Proof set (which sold out unexpectedly) from them at a better price than fleabay.

    and yes silver can help keep you healthy:

    http://www.thriftyfun.com/tf47824676.tip.html

  34. Louis says

    @Ikaika- I agree, the previous schedule was ideal. I suspect the change is due to the ASE sell-out and think it is temporary.

  35. Bob A says

    Thanks for all the INFO for a newbie like me. I went on to Apmex and they have 82 Hawaii ATB coins left. I can’t afford them, but thought I’d share the news in case you are having a hard time finding them. Wish I could buy them all. LOL. All the best, and thanks for sharing your thoughts.

  36. Zaz says

    Very interesting that the collector ATB have been shelved… I believe the Mint is legally required to offer the bullion coins but not the collector coins.

  37. Jus-a-coin-luvr says

    Good read. As to “economic uncertainty”, I believe the thing you can be “certain” of is that the world’s economy will remain uncertain. When so many countries (including our own) spend more than they take in, that is a recipe for economic disaster. I’m not suggesting that we should embrace frenzy because remaining sober-minded is key in any financial investment. We live in an economic time period that is ripe with failure and I believe it will likely get even worse. Investing in Gold and Silver still seems a wise thing to do given the course of our own country (USA) as a measuring stick.

  38. Mike says

    It’s worse than we think…I just got my ‘order’ for my regular subscription 2013 silver eagle proofs. a subscription that’s been in place since 2009. the line item on my order says:

    1. A.E. SILVER PROOF (MNF)
    Qty 4 @ $.01 – Backordered 02/03/13.

  39. stephen m. says

    I got an e-mail from the mint for an subscription order for 2 ASE proofs @.01 each + 4.95 shipping for a total of $4.97? I should have ordered more?

  40. Teach says

    I received the same email from the mint, maybe this is just their way of checking the validity of the credit cards that were used in the order. Not really sure what is going on, just a guess.

    I think the mint might be holding off on the 5 oz pucks until they can get their silver situation corrected with the ASEs. Maybe they will release a small amount of the pucks this year and they might be worth more in the coming years?

  41. EP says

    i can say that i at least am holding 10 2013 ASE’s and they certainly are beautiful!. maybe this year’s edition will carry i hefty premium in the far future.

  42. Ron Smith says

    Old USSR Joke: Is this the line where there are no shoes? No, this is the line where there is no bread.
    New USA Joke – Expanded choice of answers:
    Is this the line where there are no Silver Eagles?
    No, this is the line where there is no German Gold
    No, this is the line where there is no inventory behind MF Global.
    No, this is the line where there is no silver for SLV paper contracts
    No, this is the line where where there are no checks unless the debt ceiling is raised
    No, this is the line where there are no jobs

    Just maybe… they are holding Silver Eagles until silver goes up to $45?

  43. Dan in Fla says

    The same e-mail crossed my desk and it said the ASE proof is backordered until 2/3/13. The mint always does this to notify us that our order is placed.

  44. Dan in Fla says

    Why is it “normal” people do not get the proof eagle thing. I love the design. Both silver and gold not to mention the platinum eagle. When I try to discuss mintage of the silver proof sets, and nobody wants to listen, it gets very aggravating.

  45. BenB@fed.gov says

    Here’s another rationing theory. They’re going with Plan B – taking silver coins and painting them gold-colored so they can be returned to Germany. You see, Plan A isn’t working now because there’s a tungsten shortage due to hoarding in China for some reason.

    Is it just me, or does it seem that none of these banksters and governments are trustworthy? I mean they don’t seem to trust each other, so why should we trust them?

  46. silver bug says

    In the UK there is no shortage of bullion or coins . You have to wait a few days because there is only so much capacity to produce coins each week. That does not mean there is a shortage . Bullion here is available immediately.
    If you want it made into different forms you wait until a manufacturer can make it . This applies to anything you buy in the shops . When the manufacturer says he cannot get the raw product to produce your order is when there is a shortage . That is not proved to be happening anywhere yet nnot even the US.

  47. Stevedoc22 says

    Dan,
    Don’t despair. I like the silver proof sets.They are great way to get a sample of every US coin that is also minted for circulation. And – IMO – the silver will hold up/increase in value better. I dont get the clad sets anymore. I believe that the silver coins will just look better in 40-50 years than the clad.

  48. posterhunter says

    They have the 5 ounce coins at the bottom of the schedule now with the date to be determined. They also added the spouse coins.

  49. joe says

    I find it very interesting that there has been a very real premium for physical gold lately. I figure the separation of prices between paper and physical gold is the real tell-tail of what’s really going on in the markets. I’m just not buying (pardon the pun) the stock market highs that are currently being set on high unemployment, QE(infinity), and a poor economy. There is some serious fleecing going on right now.

  50. Ikaika says

    @ ClevelandRocks

    Agree with you. There are several factors (economy, PM prices) already contributing to low mintage numbers. The mint release schedule for the ATBs and FS coins may also have a big impact on the number of coins sold this year. What is selling with a premium today may become bullion tomorrow.

  51. Jeremy says

    Here’s something you guys can read and determine for yourselves just if there’s any validity to it. Who knows, not saying that it is the case or not. You can check out youtube channel “jsnip4″, always full of good information. For those that might be interested go to a video titled “REALIST NEWS – SILVER SHORTAGE US MINT HAS SOLD OUT!!!!”, then read one of the top comments by “leolove3″.

  52. Nikolaus says

    If you can’t get US-coins, why not buy Maple Leafs or Wiener Philhamoniker.
    you’ll also probably get your ounce of silver for less.

  53. ClevelandRocks says

    Deal of day on ebay: SSB set (gold and silver coin) for around $550 (less than issue price and less than $100 over melt). I bought one for looks, not to flip, and it looks nice.

  54. Ron Smith says

    The US Mint could produce over 10M ounces a week if they have the silver. Did anyone see the record amount of silver deposited last week?
    As far as coin dealers or pawn shops having coin, this would not be the first time they sold coins; only to realize they can’t get re-stocked.
    There have been some huge premiums recently.
    That is not normal.
    Huge announcements for Photo Electric generation in Calif to China – could easily have created competition for all available 1,000 oz bars.
    That is not normal.
    Hope you got yours in hand.

  55. ClevelandRocks says

    Wonder if Michael will write an article about the ’12 proof Buffalo (close to the ’08 lows) and/ or the general state of new lows becoming the norm (as he predicted). Chasing lows can be expensive and risky with newer lows on the horizon.

  56. Hidalgo says

    Does anyone know when the US Mint will issue the Barack Obama (1st Term) presidential bronze medal?

  57. Dan in Fla says

    I just checked the US mint product page and it is a little confusing. Why did they move all the 5 ounce coins to the TBD pile? Are they going to have problems with these now? These coins are affordable and I have three of each one except the Hot Springs and Hawaii. Affordable if they don’t bunch them all together like the gold FS coins.

  58. Jeff says

    I noticed the 2012 proof gold buffalo is sold out with low mintage. Should I buy now with some premium in the open market or risk the price being higher in the near future?

  59. says

    Dan,

    The five ounce coins have most likely been moved to the TBD section due to the silver shortage. At the moment the mint is going to be focused on trying to satisfy demand for silver bullion rather than working on their numismatic program. This has happened in years past.

    I am grateful for them being able to release the proof silver eagle on time… though I do wonder how many they were able to strike before the supply of silver got interrupted.

  60. JM says

    This is the repeat of 2008. I think all the low mintage stuff will do well in the end except for the spouses because they are just so ugly and look like zero effort was put into most of their designs.

  61. says

    Everyone has made some excellent points.

    I for one agree that new lows have a lot to do with the high price of PM’s, and the economy in general.

    However, I think that small time collecting is alive and robust.

    Do a search on ebay for “morgan silver dollar” and you will see there are over 48,000 active listings…most for single morgans. Then click on “sold (not completed, but sold) listings and you will find over 154,000.

    This is just one example…look up wheat cent, buffalo nickel, etc and you will see the same thing….thousands upon thousands of transactions at very affordable prices…THESE low price auctions are prime examples of how much interest there currently exist in “COIN COLLECTING” vs all these new lows in high priced Mint products that are really more of “coin investing”.

  62. Jeff in TX. says

    Its about time that the coin collecters @ secondary markets get some low mintage coins and sell-outs. Could make for and interesting year on us mint products.

  63. michael says

    Hey gang, this is my first post. There’s a die error on the 2013 West Point ASE. Compare the obverse of the words “In God we trust. You will notice the weaker strike compared to the San Fran 2013ASE (and the 2012). Now compare the “O” in God, it is not the same, it’s not round and has a slight die break at the top and bottom of the “O”. Use a good loupe and place one coin on top of the other where the letters are! I believe this is why the mint said sold out, so they could correct the West Point ASE die. When the next batch is released, i bet it will be corrected. I bought a West Point Monster box @ FUN, and all the coins have the die error. Also, go to Apmex, SilverTowne, or any other coin site and all that’s for sale are San Fran ASE’s. Just saying!! Could be a keeper!! I have stopped selling mine until my suspicion is confirmed.

  64. michael says

    My previous post about a die error on the 2013 ASE bullion from West Point, is “awaiting moderation “, whatever that means! Anyway, I have taken the West Point & the San Frans to other dealers & my friends who own a coin shop, and they agree, there is a difference. Placed on top of each other, where you can read “In God We Trust” , using a loupe, look at the “O” at 12 o’clock & 6 o’clock, you will see hairline indents, and the “O” in GOD IS NOT perfectly round! Also, the entire strike “In God we Trust” is weaker, even looking at it without a loupe! Lastly, now a big TV coin show is comparing the coins and calling it a die error too!! I knew it wasn’t just me! If you don’t have a 2013 San Fran to compare to the West Point, just compare to a 2012 ASE, you will see the difference. Do you see what i see? Might not be a big difference, but it is different. I have notified NGC, and I’m awaiting a response. LMK if you have any further info! My monster box came from SilverTowne @ the FUN show on 1/11/13. The next batch of West Point ASE’s will confirm my find, the coins will be corrected!!

  65. Pete says

    I saw a television program that said there are slight differences in the graded struck at (W) and (S) American silver eagle coins were as you can supposedly tell where they were struck at despite the lable due to a difference in coin appearance..

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