The United States Mint has published a notice in the Federal Register indicating a revised pricing grid for 2013 gold and platinum numismatic products. Under the revised structure, prices will be higher for every product type listed.
Since early 2009, the United States Mint has used a flexible pricing policy for gold and platinum numismatic products. This was intended to allow greater responsiveness to changes in the market price of the metals and more transparency with regards to pricing levels.
Under the flexible pricing system, the US Mint calculates the average weekly prices of gold and platinum based on the London Fix prices from the prior Thursday AM to the current Wednesday AM. These average prices are taken to an itemized grid with ranges indicated for gold at $50 intervals and for platinum at $100 intervals. For each interval, corresponding prices are provided for available numismatic products.
Generally, when the average calculated price of gold or platinum moves into a higher or lower interval, product prices are adjusted accordingly. When applicable, price changes have usually taken place around mid-morning on Wednesday.
Since the original pricing grids were published in 2009, the US Mint has updated them to remove products no longer offered and to extend the pricing ranges for the metals. In 2011, a separate grid was introduced for commemorative gold coins. Besides these updates, there have been no adjustments to the prices levels established at each interval until now.
In addition to higher price levels for each product, the new grid also combines the previously separate gold and platinum grids into a single grid. This results in $50 price intervals for the platinum coin rather than the previous $100 intervals.
For illustrative purposes, the table below shows prices under the old grid and under the new grid for an average market price of gold (or platinum) in the $1,600 to $1,649.99 range.
| Old Grid | New Grid | Difference | |
| 1 oz Proof Gold Eagle | 1,885.00 | 1,960.00 | +75.00 |
| 1/2 oz Proof Gold Eagle | 956.00 | 995.00 | +39.00 |
| 1/4 oz Proof Gold Eagle | 490.00 | 510.00 | +20.00 |
| 1/10 oz Proof Gold Eagle | 210.50 | 215.00 | +4.50 |
| Proof Gold Eagle 4 Coin Set | 3,493.00 | 3,630.00 | +137.00 |
| 1 oz Unc Gold Eagle | 1,878.00 | 1,925.00 | +47.00 |
| 1/2 oz Proof First Spouse | 979.00 | 1,015.00 | +36.00 |
| 1/2 oz Unc First Spouse | 966.00 | 995.00 | +29.00 |
| 1 oz Proof Gold Buffalo | 1,910.00 | 1,990.00 | +80.00 |
| 1 oz Proof Platinum Eagle | 1,892.00 | 2,000.00 | +108.00 |
| Proof $5 Gold Commem | 497.85 | 502.65 | +4.80 |
| Unc $5 Gold Commem | 487.85 | 497.55 | +9.70 |
| 3-Coin Commem Set | N/A | 563.65 | N/A |
A full copy of the old grid can be found here. I’ve uploaded a properly oriented copy of the new grid here.
Note: The revised pricing goes into effect February 27, 2013.
During 2012, we saw significantly slower sales for many gold numismatic products compared to previous years. In particular, the 2012-W Uncirculated Gold Eagle established a new all time low for the entire series, and the 2012-W Proof Gold Eagles each recorded record low mintages for their respective denominations in proof format. The 2012 Proof Gold Buffalo concluded sales at a level just above the series low set in 2008. Th2 2012 Proof Platinum Eagle is significantly underselling previous years.
Raising premiums for these products may serve to perpetuate the trend towards declining sales and mintages.
Hmm… the benefit of this is that it sets a bottom price.
The price of PM drops and the Mint comes up with a new higher price grid to avoid the reduction in coin prices. For all of us that were waiting a price dip to buy gold or platinum coins this is a big bummer. It seems like the mint doesn’t want our business.
More proof that the US government is brain-dead at all levels. I guess all the money for those on the dole has to come form somewhere.
I guess we all knew this day would come. It will look kind of strange to see the First Spouses suspended again next Wednesday to raise the prices, even if the average price tier remains unchanged.
It could still provide an opportunity though, if because of higher prices enough people don’t order the coins while the Mint is selling them. The old “dogs while the Mint is selling them/golden after sellout” rule for low-mintage coins never goes out of style. So, let the Mint collect an extra $47 for the 2013 AGE Unc coin. If it only sells 5,000 coins because of it, those who ponied up the extra money will be laughing all the way to the bank.
I suspect this grid change will push more marginal buyers over to Ebay (secondary market) where they might be able to pick-up raw or cert. coins closer to the spot price.
I’ll repeat my comment on the other thread and say that what often happens to Perth and the Royal Mint’s gold coins is likely to happen to the US Mint coins now. As common proof coins’ prices are driven higher and higher, you will see prices on the secondary market shrink. I had been planning to buy a proof gold coin from the US Mint directly but I’ve reconsidered in light of these increases. I imagine the mint will just keep hiking premiums every time the price falls, now.
I may just go to the secondary market and get myself a proof buffalo from there. I’m not really wedded to acquiring a new 2013 coin and older buffaloes are much more common for far less cash.
I guess the US mint has consciously decided to mimic the strategy of the Royal Mint and the Perth Mint and sell very high priced coins to a very narrow band of wealthy buyers.
No more traditional US coins with patriotic themes. Get ready for colorized year of the rat with only 250 minted, with e pluribus and IGWT only on the edge because of lip service to the law. The market has apparently spoken, and that seems to be where collectibles are headed.
Hmm…
Maybe this has something to do with the RP buffalo.
How cheap is the West Point 2 coin silver eagle set going to be if silver falls down to $22.00 oz. Maybe it may cost around $89.99.
I’m out… Even if I could afford it, it’s a matter of principle now. I’m already getting raped by the US government on taxes, so I’m certainly not going to give them more.
A few interesting points to consider:
Gold (and other PM) prices keep falling, yet the mint is jacking up prices. I’ve also noticed that physical gold and other PM prices seem to be holding their own despite falling market prices. The separation between physical PM prices and market PM prices smacks of price manipulation at the highest levels. Even the Mint is increasing prices on physical gold as the market prices drop. Sounds fishy to me!
Some of the “new lows” recently by the Mint now sound like a ploy to drive interest in their products after they increase the margins. So with after-market prices rising on the latest low mintage products, perhaps more people will continue to purchase even with an increased premium. Again…the lows sound fishy now too.
Finally, with the lower mintages I hope the Mint is planning to lay people off. Of course they won’t, but every other company in the world reduces overhead when they are not producing much product. Just a thought…
Anybody think the mint’s new premiums on the 2013 proof buffaloes will have any impact on the price and availability of the 2013 uncirculated buffaloes?
Actually I think this fits in with the PM price manipulation. That is because if the spot price is suppressed the mint would be hard pressed to maintain its profit at that price level. The solution is to raise the premium.
The only fault I have with my little theory is it would force those borderline collectors into gold bullion which is totally based on spot price, and the mint does not make a huge amount of money on them
When you first read this information about the price increase you think that the mint is charging more of the coins. Actually the mint is now reflecting the actions of the Fed and the devaluation of the dollar with the cost to each of us for QE 1,2, 3 or whatever it has gone to now.
and gold is at its lowest point in months – this makes perfect sense………/sarcasm
Did gold drop $45 and platinum drop $40 today alone? My, my, this must be a plan to get us to buy more clad. If you thought new lows were low I think buckle your seat belts and padlock your wallets. The mint must be stuck with very expensive planchets they bought when PM s were skyrocketing looks like it may well be impossible to finish off that 6-year run of plat proofs–2 years left–soooo close!!! Paid close to the $2000 mark for your gold eagle ounces? I hope the low mintages will get you back somewhere close to what you paid…someday!!
I’m not sure what this is all about. They’ve been trying to increase the price on silver products even though the price of silver has been falling. Now this even though the current grid is already a hedge for the Mint. If they want to increase the price than roll it out with a higher price? I’m not sure how increasing prices during declining sales is going to help in the long run. It’s likely to only exacerbate the situation. That’s possibly good news for a few customers, but bad for everyone else including the Mint.
I guess they haven’t been paying attention to Perth’s troubles with alienating it’s customers.
Sauce,
I think the plan is to basically do what the Royal Mint in the UK does and appeal to a very narrow band of rich buyers who are willing to pay pretty much anything to put their hands on this stuff with ultra-low mintages (anyone excited about the potential for 500 first spouse coins per release?). I expect we’ll see the mint gradually squeeze ordinary collectors out as they continue raising premiums. I imagine they’re also looking at the big eBay premiums that people are getting off some of the sold out 2012 coins and wondering “Hey, why can’t we do that?”
Fortunately, gold bullion is still available at normal prices.
Well…., I asked what the mints strategy would be and I got a fast answer. There’s going to be some obscenely low mintages at this rate. I might have to change to buying on a secondary market strategy! No flipper in their right mind would hand premiums like that away to the mint. No large dealer like apmex or the like will do that either. We’re gonna see the market for collectible coins choke and the market for bullion possibly increase in numbers once prices stabilize. I’m thinking 1,100-1,200$ will be the near/mid term bottom. Maybe 1,000$! Stock market will take a whipping ad well as the bond and all commodity markets. Anyone with dry powder will get some seriously collectible low mintage coins soon. Wouldn’t be surprised to see suspensions of sales and heavy losses from the mint next year. They might panic and pull a bunch of programs.
If that buffalo set does come out this year it’ll be interesting to see how the mint will handle sales…. I only hope that the PM markets aren’t TOO crazy so that the mint panics and cancels any hope of a reverse proof buffalo!
Isn’t this the same way the housing bubble got started?
I’ll echo some other comments here. If I do decide on buying any gold coins, it will either be bullion or some other classic gold coins (St. Gaudens 1 oz.) I’m slowly buying less and less from the Mint and this will only hasten it more. They are doing exactly the opposite of what other businesses would do to increase sales and satisfy their customers. Too bad
I hope that when the dust settles, that I will at least be able to buy a loaf of bread with these damn FS that I have been buy from the Mint. I just can’t figure their reasoning out. The world banks are buying up gold like crazy, but Soros is dumping his gold. The U S government is printing dollars like crazy, yet the dollar is the safe haven and its value is increasing. Gas, food, houses, clothing, etc are all going up in price much more than 2% yet the U S Government says that there is no inflation. Now they want to go to the “Chained CPE” where they can claim that there is even less inflation and cut the annual cost of living increase to the SS recipients but still give plenty of corporate welfare to farmers, car producers, oil companies, etc, etc and let hedge fund stock traders pay 15% tax while the rest of us pay 28%.
God help the middle class.
Brad wrote on February 20, 2013 at 3:33 pm:
I guess we all knew this day would come. It will look kind of strange to see the First Spouses suspended again next Wednesday to raise the prices, even if the average price tier remains unchanged.
I think the only people here who anticipated that “this day would come” are those who had concluded the Mint is run by utter idiots. I now find myself a member of that camp.
By next Wednesday it’s quite likely that gold prices will have dropped yet another step on the gold coin price grid. But even if that happens, the First Spouse coins will STILL increase in price then because of the new grid..
The Federal Register notice was apparently prepared for submission on Monday, Feb 11, 2013. I suspect that the final decisions on prices were taken the previous week. The final gold fix in London of Friday, Feb 8, 2013 was $1668.25. I seriously doubt anyone at the Mint knew that gold prices would fall so much by the time their notice was actually published in the Register today. If anyone there DID know, they ought to be running a hedge fund and getting rich instead of screwing things up at the Mint.
The new grid goes into effect at 12 Noon ET on Wed, Feb 27, 2013. Depending on how automated the Mint’s catalog gold pricing update is, it’s possible that First Spouse gold coin prices could be updated at around 10 AM ET as usual on next Wednesday to reflect a lower tier on the old grid and then, a couple of hours later at Noon, prices would be raised to reflect the new grid. It’ll be interesting to see whether this “magic window” materializes, although the question might be moot if all the First Spouse gold coins sell out by then.
Unbelievable timing on the mint’s part as PM prices tumble. Are they tone deaf to their customer base? (rhetorical question)
I’m not sure I understand all of the hand-wringing about this increase.
I am puzzled as to why the increases are less for the .1oz but more for everything else, on a pro rata basis. However, since 2009, I would say that an increase is due — prices have gone up on everything else.
Hopefully, PMs will drop back by about half from where they currently are, and all of the prices will seem like bargains through 2012 eyes, back when gold was $1700/oz.
Out of topic, i see the Acadia National park 5 oz coin is sold out on mint website, whats up with that?
With spot gold below 1600, the Buffalo, using the new grid will carry a premium of nearly 25%. And as for silver, if it continues its decline another 2-3 bucks, the gild scout commenrative will cost double the spot price for silver. I think enough is enough.
I’m out too. Not gonna subscribe to what feels like “Mint piracy”. I will definitely take my business to the 3rd party market or just gold bullion (not necessarily US either). I’ve become totally alienated by our government and this is just another fine example of a “government gone mad”, or the results of it. I personally hope there is (one day) a “piper to be paid” for these antics.
The mint’s prices were too high before this 2013 increase and I’m sure those high premiums were a contributing factor to lower recent sales numbers. Who’s going to be foolish enough to spend $300+ extra for a proof eagle or buffalo? This latest price increase will only drive down the sales and profit numbers for the mint. Total stupidity reigns in our government at all levels.
Looks like the politicians have finally got involved with coin sales just like everything else the middle man has to put up with. IT IS INSANE TO INCREASE PRICES AS METALS TUMBLE. I AM WITH MOST OTHERS, THE MINT CAN SHUT DOWN FOR ALL I CARE! Another subscriber was dead on: IF YOU WANT GOLD BUY A LIB OR SAINT. DON’T WORRY ABOUT LOW MINTAGES EITHER, at the end of the day you will still own the gold you want in your hands AND WONT HAVE TO PAY A MAJOR PREMIUM TO GET IT!.
On the positive side for those that like low mintages this will help to create more.
I don’t know why the Mint just doesn’t sub-contract out to the Franklin Mint. Overpriced stuff, but at least they have better quality control. It does not take $400 to make a coin – welcome to the for profit government.
I don’t subscribe to the notion that it’s a greedy US Mint…. I think they’re desperate. Margins are going to/getting hammered. Is it the wise choice? No. But I promise they see the writing on the wall. A storm is coming. Even bigger than 2008. Keep your powder dry. Watch for value.
To summarize all we’ve been saying here today, what you you guys suggest are the smartest coins/sets/items to quickly get a lot more of, and which ones should I be dumping onto eBay ASAP? I have many old Morgans, Peace, 40% Ikes, LOTS of ’64 Kennedy Halves, all the Silver Proof Sets, (2) First Spouse Gold Coins, including the Lucy Hayes UNC, most of the 5oz ATBs, and then lots of the recent clad quarters, Pres dollar rolls, and a few other things. I heartily agree with everyone’s assessment of the mess we’re in, and the storm that’s coming, I’m just not savvy enough to know whether to buy vs. sell my PM holdings for the bad times ahead. Ideas gents? Thanks
Typical government insanity, when sales drop raise prices! By next year they will wonder why they didn’t make more money.
They could not have known metals would drop when they planned this. Everyone’s screaming that they are raising prices when metals drop, but imagine the screaming if metals rose a couple hundred on top of the increased prices.
I’ve been collecting the proofs, but not a these ridiculous premiums. They sell bullion at cost, so I’ll stick with that from now on.
George the only way out of our financial/budget crisis is for the government to print more money, which will make the dollar worth less and PMs worth more. I am using these dips to buy more. As they say BTFD!
My 2c : The TPGs should shoulder some of the blame. They have created a hyped up market for “perfect” coins which causes dealers large and small to make huge purchases, pick out the apparent “perfect ones,” and ship the rest back for a refund. Some are even demanding refunds of shipping fees. This scenario adds up to more expense for the Mint. If I remember correctly there were several posts here recently on a Mint survey about returns .
I for one will continue to purchase regularly from the Mint.
EvilFlipper,
I’m in your camp, most people here keep talking about expecting the price of PMs to fall, I don’t see it happening options expiration is over tomorrow by next Tuesday we should have a price movement back up, this little game has been going on for years. But I do think the mint miscalculated. Anyway gas prices just went up like 25 cents in 2 days, Walmart has had the worst sales month in 7 years…something wicked this way comes.
@george glazener,
BTFD…that is my 2 cents and what I did today. Unless you believe the talking heads or your desperate for cash why would you sell.
George: Nobody knows what the future holds but my standby credo is to follow Gresham’s Law, “Bad money drives out Good money” with PM’s being good and paper being bad. History seems to validate this law and who am I to fight its wisdom.
Re: the new pricing grid, I think it is ludicrous as well, the opposite of what the Mint should be doing but the contrarian in me wonders if the anger and the rejection of the mint and their offerings by so many won’t create select opportunities to pick up certain coins that will look to be bargain values in the future. Which coins these might be remains the question du jour. I’m pretty sure I’m not smart enough to know but I love coming here to read the opinions of many who are smarter than I about coins.
George, I’m a similar position, I have a lot of coins that I am planning on letting go of when the PM prices move forward. I really don’t think you should be too unsettled about the recent dip in the PM market, just give it a little time and you will be able to sell the ones you want to sell. Remember, don’t worry, have a good time with your hobby, look out for some ounce in a life time deals, you’re going to enjoy the future.
CO,
We hit 10,020,500 ASE with 8 days left I think we can sell 717,501 ounces.
The mint workers will probably like this move, less coins to manufacture.
What the mint is doing seems a lot like what drug dealers do – they hook a “client” and then gradually raise the price for what the client thinks he or she just has to have. Personally, I’m glad I stayed out of all this gold and platinum pricing mechanims and the products being sold at great markups over the past several years. For the life of me, I can’t see why anyone would want to buy the first lady spouse coins anyway. What impact did they have on our country’s history anyway? They might have been nice people, but there are lots of nice people and we don’t mint gold coins for every nice person in this country. Very few people could ever afford to buy all that the Mint is selling in any one year. Most of it is unattractive anyway – the USA is getting to be likee Canada and Australia in the proliferation of products, especially PM products. I’m out, and it sounds like a lot of others feel the same way. Sorry, Mint, you literally killed the golden goose.
Acadia 5oz atb coin sold out at mint now.
Jerry I agree ! I got the Jefferson spouse then quit collecting them. Those who continued can’t seem to get a break.
So if “Investing in Silver” is my primary goal for its PM value, perhaps it would be wiser to buy more of the bullion coins as close to melt value as possible, and stay away from the numismatic stuff with it’s high premiums.
Conversely, if I like the MINT products with their fancy packaging, so be it. Just don’t expect that stuff to follow the PM charts on Kitco.
I still struggle with those competing concepts, as I’d always believed that EVERYTHING from the US MINT increased in value steadily over time.
Grid? You don’t need a Ph.D. to figure this out, it’s just a simple rise in price. Let them make their profit. I’ll start buying gifts for my girlfriend, instead.
Always a smart alternative. 24 kt Gold and Silver jewelry is as good as buying coins. Plus there are certain fringe benefits, if you catch my drift…!
George,
Don’t panic and hang onto your bullion. You don’t want sell into a cascade of falling prices. Ultimately if you want to just invest in the price of gold and silver rather than getting into the rare coins market, you should just focus on acquiring bullion. I buy numismatics largely because I like them, and if you get disenchanted with US coins due to this stunt from the Mint, you can always look at foreign bullion coins.
gatortreke,
That is what the Mint is counting on. They seem to plan to appeal to a narrow band of rich customers and flippers who think they might be able to squeeze out a profit when the inevitable low mintage coin sells out. I wasn’t entirely joking about the first spouses falling to 500 per issue. I think this is a stupid strategy – they should lower their prices and advertise more aggressively to try to rope in more customers.
Fosnock,
That huge jump caught me by surprise, and we still have seven days left to go in February! Looks like most people are treating this big drop as a buying opportunity.
I am certain that this plan was approved some time back by the mint with the notion of higher precious metals prices for the future. The mint & any government wheels move so slowley. I’m sure there will be a plan b. The mint is maybe already thinking about having a meeting to adress this situation just as soon as everyone reports to work on the same day, a meeting can be scheduled and they think they can get their s–t together. Pit-i-full.
@george glazener – Not sure were you live but I have never seen 24 kt jewelery in the states, even 18K is rare. Years ago I got some bullion and a few half eagles, Morgans, and bought bezels for them so my wife uses them as earrings and necklaces…it works but saying that if you buying jewelery you had better be able to calculate the true gold content, and when you do you will find that even the mint’s mark ups are small in comparison, but sometimes you can jewelry close to spot…but good luck as silver is replacing gold in jewelery rather quickly
I bought silverware based on spot price a few years ago…good luck with doing that now…the same silverware is untouchable today. In a nutshell the best bang for your buck is bullion, and you don’t need to to calculate its true value.
Stephen,
I think the mint is doing this because metals prices are falling and I expect if prices were to continue falling, they would just keep hiking premiums. I think they’re doing this because they bought gold and silver at high prices, and with sales falling as it is they are panicking looking for ways to avoid a loss.
Of course, they COULD try advertising aggressively and getting more people to buy their products, but they don’t seem to want to do that.
Mint products going up in price is actually a new phenomenon! Back in the 1980s and 90s gold commemoratives were bought and sold by dealers at close to melt, way below the issue price. Even today most proof sets sell for less than issue price (except silver). It’s only because PMs are going up that Mint products are not worth less.
But I don’t think the rising values will end any time soon. Our government is printing money like never before in history. It’s spending money that can never be paid back with taxes. So the dollar can only go down. Let’s just hope it’s not like Weimar Germany with bread and milk costing millions and billions. That’s why the prices of PMs are being manipulated and hammered down every morning. I’m buying PM with every spare dollar I have. They can’t keep this up forever.
I just put in my order for McKinley Dollars. I was going to wait for the Girl Scout silver proof in order to combine delivery, but have decided to pass on the proof as it is priced at almost twice the price of spot silver.
Good advice fellas. I think you’re right, now is the time to buy bullion, and pay for it by dumping some fancy clad stuff onto eBay.
The Lucy Hayes UNC is my real quandry. It has PM value AND it has high numismatic interest due to its low mintage. Can’t decide whether to double my money today or hold it for another 5 years…..Hmmm
Val,
The mark-up is even worse than you think. Silver commemorative coins only contain roughly .77 troy oz. of silver. At the current price of $28.72/oz., the melt value of the Girl Scout coin is about $22.11. That means the intro price of 54.95 is 2.485 times the spot price, and the regular price is 2.711 times the spot.
When does this take effect? Now ,IN a month ,sorry I cound’nt read every post.
Tony,
It’s happening on the 27th of this month. If you want to buy a gold product from them, now is basically the time to do it.
You can have your choice of spouse.lol
Hey George Glazener
This is my 2 cents on your quandry with Lucy. She is in the running for lowest mintage right now. Everyone is assuming that Lucretia is the lowest but in actuality Lucy went backordered and sold out with a total order number of 2495. However this occured after her last week of ordering when she went from 1973 orders up an additional 525 for the total of 2495. The huge question is, were all those orders filled or is she now the queen of low mintage if she did not even make the 2243 of lucretia. Bottom line, if you can afford to hold, she should always be worth more than you paid jsut a question of how much more.
George,
I’d sell the Lucy Hayes now. I think it was Louis Golino who had it on good authority that it’s actually the Lucretia Garfield Unc coin that is the lowest mintage in the series thus far, coming in slightly lower than Lucy Hayes. That makes sense, given the 500+ orders that were taken in that final week following the Hayes sellout. We all know the Mint always has an overshoot of orders to cancel on sold out coins, and there were a lot of reports of cancelled orders for the Garfield. That final sales number was never adjusted down for those.
Despite the price hike by the Mint on the new grid, I don’t really see the First Spouse mintages falling too much. It seems those of us who buy them for the sets we’re building are a pretty dedicated bunch. We’ve weathered all the storms thus far, and the closer we get to the finish line the harder it will be to walk away.
Jerry above mentioned not understanding why we want to buy the First Spouse coins. For me, I think it’s the satisfaction of successfully building the entire set over 10 years, and enjoying the fact that a lot of the coins have VERY low mintages. It will be quite a sight too, seeing them all together at the end. Some of you here may remember that when the series was getting ready to start, the Mint briefly offered a subscription program for the 4-coin set each year. But, due to the overwhelming demand the idea was scrapped and the Mint opted to release the coins on an individual basis only. Before that happened though, subscribers were to receive a large wooden box (similar to the ones the coins come in now, only with enough slots to hold the entire set) as a “free gift.” I don’t know if the Mint will still offer that after the series is over or not, but it would be an awesome way to display the entire series. What would have originally been a free gift will likely end up costing $200+ though. I’ve always kind of hoped that the Mint will still reward those who are “buyers of record” for the entire series with that box at the end, but I know that’s just a dream that will never come true. If we get it, we’ll have to pay for it!
Regarding Lucy and Lucretia, does “Lowest Mintage” vs. “2nd Lowest Mintage” really make a huge difference in the grand scheme of things years down the road? I mean, in 2023, when people are filling in the last slots of their box, BOTH of those FS UNCs will be pretty darn tough. A few hundred pieces either way shouldn’t amount to much, I wouldn’t think. But I don’t have enough years of flipping experience with expensive gold coins to make that judgement. I’m sure most of you guys do this more often than I do. Have you generally found it more profitable to double your money short term or hold something for the long haul when you know you’ve got something special…?
With the drop in gold prices maybe the mint will get away with this, as product prices won’t go up next week but will stay around the same instead of dropping.
Captain O, If the mint puchased a lot of siver and gold inventory and metals keep falling there may be a loss for the mint. If they would purchase x amount of the metal and make x amount of coins for sale at a given price it would safeguard agaist a loss of great magnitude. I really can’t see them buying a lot of metal at a time but what is purchased is done under mint management(there is a difference between management and the correct management). From what you say the mint is pricing coins simular to gasoline, meaning what coins are sold are based on the price of the last load of gas or metal and not current market prices. Interesting indeed but i’m not so sure the gas station or the mint would be completely honest with pricing under this system.
Question for Michael regarding “The United States Mint has published a notice in the Federal Register indicating a revised pricing grid for 2013 gold and platinum numismatic products.”.
Does this mean that the 2012 First Spouse coins will not be repriced according to the new grid? Or will all products including last year’s Spouse coins be repriced?
I think I would rather buy bullion with these markups. Ugly is ugly, no demand later will mean most of these coins (FS,ATB) will be sitting in a new coin album. It will have openings to insert them into the melting pot.
With the new price grid and potential lows coming our way I wonder who is still brave enough to pay 3K+ for those 2012 W 1oz gold eagle or buffalos.
George,
With very few exceptions, the “wait and sell it for more later” method almost NEVER works out. In this case, if the price of gold reaches the stratosphere like some “experts” predict, then the value of the First Spouse coins will continue to rise by default. However, experience has taught me that it’s almost always best to “strike while the iron is hot.” If you can get an effective price of $2,800 per ounce for a Lucy Hayes right now, it would be best to take that instead of risking that the collector value will always be there. It could be a long time before you can get that kind of money again if later the main driving factor in the coin values is intrinsic metal value. Typically, the more the metal value rises, the more the collector premium shrinks. For an example of that, look no further than the 2006 20th Anniversary AGE set. It sold for $2,610 on August 30 2006 (on that day the gold value was $1,853.25), and by the end of the year you could get $5,000+ for those sets. That was quite a markup over the then-current metal value of $1,907.10. Recently (before the price drop of the past few days), the gold value of the set was $4,938, and the sets could typically be had for $6,000-$6,200. Obviously, a lot smaller premium than before!
By the way, I tried to be as accurate as possible by using Kitco historical price fixes for the dates I was referencing above. The set selling prices I mentioned are the best I can recall seeing. There are undoubtedly exceptions to those, both higher and lower. I say this for someone who might nitpick what I said to death!
Wow…just thought about it…as if it wasn’t bad enough already, the sales of the First Spouse coins are really going to tank now!
The Mint keeps coming up with new ways to compound their mistakes with the FS series. How cost efficient is it to only manufacture <1000 coins? They can mark up their prices, but that will only drive the manufacturing cost/coin through the roof. At least with the FS coins, they should consider marking them down instead of up to try and drive up demand (especially with the other PM coin prices being increased). Of course that is too logical for a bunch of bureaucrats…never going to happen!
So with buying Gold or Silver Bullion as an alternative to paying these high direct-from-the-Mint prices. For those of you doing this, what are your favorite companies that you use?
Are most of you using a check for purchases to avoid the 3% premium most resellers place on credit card purchases of bullion? Wire transfers also have a cost at most banks that can run ~ $25 per transaction, so that can add cost too. Just curious, because I’d like to take advantage of the “dips” and find another path than buying Gold direct from the Mint.
They know somethin’ we don’t know. That’s where the prices are headed.
http://www.providentmetals.com
shop: http://goldismoney.info
go to DEALERS and see the remarks
Thanks for the words of wisdom Brad;
Your arguments certainly played out correctly in the baseball card market. In 1992-1995 I sold the fire out of Frank Thomas and Ken Griffey Jr. cards. People were tripping over themselves to hand me their dollars. Not to mention Steve Avery and Mark Lemke cards. Now who wants ‘em?
Well, it’s certainly worth listing it with a nice reserve just to see who nibbles. Mary Todd Lincoln probably should wait until April 2015 though…
Jus-a-coin-luvr,
I’ve been using Provident Metals for my bullion needs. Their selection of coins, while not as extensive as APMEX’s, is still quite good and find that overall their prices seem to be the lowest. Their shipping also isn’t too bad. Gainesville is also good but you have to pay either by bank wire or credit card, and they have a minimum $ you have to pay to use bank wire. They charge extra premium for using a credit card and their shipping is higher. APMEX has a great selection, but in my experience their raw coins are generally very poor quality and their premiums are way too high. Use APMEX only as a last resort.
Beyond those, you should also consider looking at local coin shops depending on how much you plan on buying. When you buy at a local coin shop, you can evade high shipping charges. Just make sure to call ahead and ask for their prices on a given bullion coin so you can compare it to what’s available on the internet. If you’re buying only a small amount of bullion (such as a handful of silver coins) I find you make up more money going to a dealer who may have slightly higher bullion prices but no shipping charge. I have done this on occasion.
Another option is Tulving, who is said to have the best prices, though I’ve heard the man is very abrasive personally and you also need to spend a sufficient quantity of money or he won’t do business with you.
Question for FS fans:
Will the lowest mintage issues have greater value in the future or will collectors opt for the 4 classic design coins from the early offerings? I can see a demand for the small number issues for those trying to collect the whole series but I can also see a possible demand for the 4 classic designs based on a larger number of collectors who are collecting just those 4 issues. Your thoughts?
Thanks CO, that is what I was interested in hearing. My experience with Provident Metals is just like yours and they have been my favorite for a variety of coin purchases. Great company that is very polite in phone contact with them. I just haven’t done the “Bullion” thing yet with them.
I also have seen you concerns about Apmex and they are near the bottom of my list too (from buying experience).
I haven’t tried all the various companies out there and don’t necessarily need to, but just wanted to compare notes with fellow coin lovers/investors on this subject.
Not that I have any personal experience with them (yet), you can also try Goldmart. Their selection is poor, but the prices are low!
Also, FideliTrade have the most recent coins but you need to order over the phone and they charge $25 commission and $25 + $0.10/oz for shipping; i.e. only use them for large orders. But I managed to pick up some 5oz Hawaii pucks two weeks ago (sold out now, of course).
@Jus-a-coin-luvr,
CO just beat me to the post and what he says is correct. I think the minimum with Tulving is generally 20 coins, my issue with that is at those volumes Provident and APMEX will offer discounts. My advice is to go with Provident Metals, saying that my last order was with Gainesville. I have a love hate relationship with APMEX, and like CO I use them only as a last resort.
As far as using a check vs credit card it depends if your in no hurry send them a check, I usually use a credit card but then I make small purchases.
Gator,
The “Liberty Subset” in the First Spouse series should always do very well, especially the Uncirculated Jackson and Van Buren coins. Considering how nice they look and how much cheaper the coins were back in 2008, it’s difficult to believe that they only sold 4,609 and 3,826 units respectively. The Jefferson coin only has a small premium over melt due to the much higher mintage of 19,823. The last time I checked the Buchanan coin was lagging behind in value as well, probably due to the “high” mintage of 5,348 coins. To put it in perspective though, that number is less than 200 coins higher than the Jackie Robinson 1997 gold $5 coin that at one time fetched thousands of dollars.
No one can know for sure what will happen with the other micro-mintage coins in the series. Logic would dictate that there should always be some degree of collector demand for every coin in the set, but sometimes reality doesn’t always follow logic. The scenario I’ve always imagined is that it only takes two people who want a specific coin to drive the price up, provided they want it badly enough to bid against each other for it. It seems unlikely there would ever be a time when at least two people wouldn’t want any of the coins in the set, but you never know.
Due to buying the new house last December, I had to nix the second set of Uncirculated First Spouse coins I was building. Because of that, I now have extras to sell of all of the unc coins through the 2011 issues. The only ones I’ve sold so far are the Washington, Adams and Madison 2007′s to a local coin dealer, since the price he paid was more than what I would have been left with selling them on eBay (after paying the selling/PayPal fees and postage/insurance.) At some point, I’ll have to figure out how I want to offer the Liberty subset, Julia Tyler, Lucy Hayes and Lucretia Garfield keys. I was considering offering them as a group, since it would save money on selling fees. But, I figure such a high price tag might drive away buyers.
“Does this mean that the 2012 First Spouse coins will not be repriced according to the new grid? Or will all products including last year’s Spouse coins be repriced?”
The notice does say ” for 2013 gold and platinum products”, but it would seem rather unwieldy to have to use two different grids.
I am trying to confirm for sure whether or not this will apply to remaining 2012 products. Will pass along any response in a new post.
Wood Bison is comming out next week.
Wood Bison? Is that like Groundhog Day?
The Wood Bison will tell us if silver will rise or fall nxt week gg…I thought everyone knew that.
Here is the common crap we all we are being told by: Jim Cramer, Ben Bernanke, CNBC, CNN, NBC, ABC et al who support this administration and their lies, “There is no inflation out there AND in fact we are worried that there might actually be DEFLATION coming.”
THE FACT IS THAT INFLATION HAS BEEN PRESENT THROUGHOUT THIS ECONOMY SINCE 2008 MONEY PRINTING. NOW THE US MINT HAS TOLD US THAT BERNANKE CAN CONTINUE HIS DAMAGE TO THE DOLLAR WHILE WE PAY THE MINT FOR THE INFLATED LABOR COSTS!!
Slightly O/T: Does anyone know an alternative to OGPWORLD.com? It looks like they are ebay only now selling in lots. I need to pic up a high relief Perth 1 oz silver capsule, since the one APMEX included in my high relief snake is scratched. Thankfully the coin is fine. This speaks to what CO says about the quality of raw coins from them. Would like to find some proof Buffalo packaging too.
I called Sherlock Holmes to come up with why the mint is raising prices on gold and platinum. He deduced that since the mint is selling fewer coins they must feel they are “required” to be paid more profit per coin to make up for the lost sales and revenues. Watson mumbled something about they can do this as the legislation probably requires it somewhere or something, so the mint is covered.
Sherlock also mentioned how the mint is charging a flat profit per coin regardless of the price of the precious metal instead of using a sliding scale that accounts for possible sales trends. He noticed that if the price of gold was $500 a gold proof Buffalo coin would sell for $890, which is 78% over its spot value. The 1/10 ounce proof gold eagle would sell for 101% spot value. Watson said he was amazed this was possible and didn’t want to hear anymore. He then said they are mad and hung up the phone before I could get any more information.
More reason to continue buying from our friends up north. RCM!
@CW -
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Australian-2012-1-Year-of-the-Dragon-High-Relief-Proof-Box-and-COA-NO-Coin-/170990895445?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item27cfda0155
@Marc Hasara, everyone seems to have become hypersensitive over potential “inflation” issues since the so called “financial crisis”. Currently there is little inflation other than in energy and food, not to mention secondary education tuition fees, which is why they aren’t calculated in the inflationary figures of the fed. However, the housing market, labor market and consumer goods have been deflationary. Could this change? Ofcourse, however, a gallon of gas has been in a range of around $3.24-$4 for years now. The amount of inflationary pressure through QE programs is being relieved through labor expenditures/costs. Meaning the masses don’t have money to spend, often referred to as “money velocity”.
Maybe this blog should close down. The mint doesn’t need free advertising. Let’s just go with WMNB and RCM, perth, etc.
Why are you worried about education jeremy ? This is a Mint blog. I don’t want nasty welfare mothers to move next to me…..
My hobby has nothing to do with your kids.
@hi ho silver, Because it is unacceptable to require younger people to accumulate outrageous amounts of debt in order to acquire an education that provides them with a sense of personal accomplishment while offering productive potential. Now I have a question for you, why should people, based on the economic infrastructure that exists today, spend all their lives paying on a “mort-gage”, in which people become slaves to live in a home or to acquire an education?
Furthermore, do you actually think that a so called “welfare mother”, since you’re so sympathetic, in general be interested in applying themselves in such a fashion?
Regardless of the type of forum a practice of indifference should never be tolerated or accepted.
@Jeremy
Short answer…
“I can’t eat an iPad,”
Long answer…
Substitution Adjustments
If steak becomes too expensive and people buy hamburger instead, then the CPI just starts using hamburger prices instead. After all, that is what people are buying right? Not only does this reduce inflation, critics wonder where this is headed. Hamburger gets too expensive, so then we eat hot dogs. Hot dogs turns into… dog food?
Quality, or Hedonic, Adjustments
A second major factor is that the CPI tries to adjust for increases in quality as well as increases in price. If a car costs 10% more, but it is 10% higher in quality, then there was no inflation.
Most welfare mothers want to feed off the system jeramy, or a child support check. BRING IT ON !!!
@hi ho silver, did you even read what I had written? Obviously not, maybe you are eating your precious metals. You might want to stop that!
I hear…… How many children you have ?
@Jeremy – I must agree with hi ho silver your question on inflation was relevant but your last rant is not…their are numerous financial blogs that would love to hear your position on debt and mortgages but this is a coin blog…we are not asking you to keep on topic because we are indifferent to their plight we are asking you to do so to keep on topic…this is not a public forum and Michael can and has shut down commenting because of off topic posts.
Gentleman -
Please take your flame war offline.
@fosnock, yeah, wouldn’t want to taint your coin fanaticism and discussion of being continually fleeced.
Thank you fosnock. I don’t want welfare mothers around my neighborhood !
@fosnock, not to mention your response regarding inflation is incomplete in reference to the totality of the economy and where and how inflation exist.
How many kids again ?
Wooden Buffalo! That’s funny. But seriously guys…. Stop fighting and start thinking. If you’re really in to coins you’ll look for opportunity to get what pieces you really want when it gets crazy. Why does it always have to devolve into a welfare/banker queen debate or some finger pointing crap. I want to talk strategy, value, and quality! So many opportunities to be had if we put our brains together instead of blow them apart!! Lots of smart people…. Lets ditch out attitudes and let’s start making some “Change”….. Pun intended.
@EvilFlipper, you are on the retail end and you will always be disadvantaged because just as everything else you’re essentially dealing with a monopolized market. Good luck chasing your tail trying to find that pathetic “opportunity”.
There’s HOPE for you yet Jeremy…..
@hi ho silver, what to begin eating precious metals like you yourself seem to be apparently doing?
What ?
@ Jeremy – Yes we continue to see deflation in all we own and inflation in all we need, and are heading IMHO back to the 70′s stagflation. I see you did not debate how the CPI is calculate, but as I have already indicated this is a coin blog, not a financial blog. We tend to buy coins that we like and bullion for investments…whither we experience deflation of inflation PMs are a good investment, and unless we lose our jobs we will still buy the coins we like so what is your point about inflation?
Damn it I just fed a troll…Everyone DNFTT
@fosnock, I wasn’t the initiator of the discussion regarding inflation and if YOU read the posts you’ll see what the point is. Don’t bother trying to make yourself appear relevant to the discussion now, you’ve already exposed yourself of not having a full understanding of the subject matter.
Enjoy getting fleeced by your coin dealers.
Oh yeah, on that topic, I believe it was CO, that claimed it was cheaper to go through lcs’ because there isn’t a shipping cost reflected when purchasing coins, at least around here that is NOT accurate at all!
@fosnock, oh stfu, I’ve been around for quite a while. Years! Most the time I just let you people spew on and don’t bother contributing much of anything, and I’m sure you’ll argue I still haven’t but I really don’t care what most of you have to say about anything.
How many kids you got jeremy ? I think the reference was Providant….
@Jeremy – Would you please stop posting before the discussion board is closed
hi ho silver – Would you please stop posting before the discussion board is closed
On a different topic, I haven’t seen Louis Golino posting here recently nor has he published an article at CoinWeek since late January. Wonder what has happened to him.
No
Never done retail…. Unless you count waiting tables through college full time. But I love money. Pun intended- again. And if I had a dime for every time I heard it was hopeless… I’d still work my ass off!
Thats just how I roll.
@EvilFlipper – LOL
What was the topic anyway? Oh ya, rising prices. I like PosterHunter calling up Sherlock Holmes for his input, how closer to the nail can someone swing?
Hi Ho: Know what you mean. You should see the area I live in, poverty everywhere, but the many 8 liner clubs are full 24 hrs.
I gather from the posts here that a few of you are seriously into profit, so I can understand your disappointment in the Mints decision to raise prices, every penny counts. I on the other hand had my heart skip a beat when Michael ended his post earlier with “Raising premiums for these products may serve to perpetuate the trend towards declining sales and mintages.” What are you waiting for? There’s GOLD in them there hills!
@Jeremy – The discussion was about why the mint raised it prices, and one (or more) person said it was because of inflation. It was not a discussion on inflation…I would love to hear your contributions on that discussion (mint price increase) …I never said you contributed nothing I was simply saying this is not the forum for that type of discussion.
Considering the insult you gave to EvilFlipper for no reason maybe it is a good thing you “don’t bother contributing much of anything.”
Just popping back in to thank Frankie and Fosnock for their bullion reseller recommendations/experiences. I’m gonna go with Provident since I know them and others here have also had good experience with them.
Oh, and no matter whether I darken the doors of the US Mint or not in the future, this Blog is something I will continue to read and follow. I read it just about every day, don’t post much, but have learned a lot from you folks. Thanks!
@Jus-a-coin-luvr – NP, CO turned me on to Provident. I don’t think you can go wrong with them
Sheesh..!
I leave the blog for a few hours and look what happens…!!
What an argument..!!
I too read this blog to get some insight on collecting coins the fs series pf70 and ms70 .I have a lot invested in the series and I hope to continue all the way through can anyone have a ball park figure for the complete sets when theyare complete in a few years price wise just courious what the total value of both sets would be worth I stiil cannot figure out the mints new pricing scam.lowr mintages in aalready low mintage series .oh well any help would be great thanks keep up the good work
@fosnock, much appreciated. Thank you!
@CW – NP
les: you could run some figures at today’s prices, but I doubt that would be accurate enough. Buying all the coins over time should make it affordable. If it’s something you enjoy, then you win.
If the Mint can sell four proof dollar coins at $15 over face it must cost about $4 to make a coin proof as opposed to non-proof.
So why do they have to charge $300 extra for a proof gold eagle? It’s just a rip-off to make extra profits on the back of collectors.
Mark: Hypothetically speaking, if you want to buy a piece of land in the country and it’s say 40 acres, and other land in the area is selling for $4000. per, wouldn’t you accept that the price is reasonable based on the fact that land is selling for that amount in the area. When we were kids, did we complain about the high price of a car, or did we just go to work to earn the money to buy it. There shouldn’t be so many of us upset, unless we’re seeing our bottom line effected, in which case I can sympathize. In my own business profits often swing wildly, much of my job is spent dealing with crises management, but one has to be able to grin and bear it. I personally have never considered the mint an organization established with any other goal but to provide basic currency. I like the extras, keep them coming.
Using that analogy, Dusty, I’d look at bullion gold selling at 4% over spot and proof gold selling at 20% over spot and decide that land is overpriced, I’ll buy the ones at 4%.
But this is just another example of how our system has deteriorated. Years ago companies made more money by giving customers better products or better prices than competitors. Today companies try to make more money by shrinking the package, charging some customers higher prices for rooms or seats than others, lowering the quality, putting competitors out of business, or other trickery. Our whole system is no longer honest.
But the good news about the higher prices is that it will probably raise the prices of proofs we already own. When investors, like IRAs, are buying up proof gold they will probably pay the same for older sets as the Mint is charging for current sets. SO all our old proofs just went up in value by these increases.
Dusty,
I take issue with that as all PM sales from the Mint are based on spot price. We know, roughly, what one ounce of gold should be worth as the market has (theoretically, putting aside for the moment whether one believes in big bank/Fed market manipulation) set the price of metals. The value of gold is not some theoretical thing that is assigned based on pulling numbers out of thin air.
When dealing with numismatics, the Mint is obviously entitled to charge premiums for their products. However, we’ve seen with other world mints such as Perth and the UK Royal Mint that the minute these coins hit the secondary markets, their prices implode and the premiums collapse. This is a stupid move by the mint because it forces customers who’d been ordering from the mint to go to the secondary markets and shrinks the mint’s retail sales.
So I don’t think that “it’s worth whatever the Mint says it’s worth” argument really holds water. The coins are worth what the market says they’re worth, and we can just look at eBay and the spot price of metals to get a good idea of what the actual value for something is. Charging $3000 for a one ounce gold coin is an exercise in futility and the mints of the world are only shooting themselves in the foot selling at that price.
This partially explains the increase :
https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/338163900
Anyone here a GS – 13 ?
MODERN NUMISMATIC offerings always demands a premium vs bullion.
I wish the new website will, in the near future, post a video on all the steps necessary to create a numismatic coin vs a bullion coin; only then will you REALIZE the DIFFERENCE.
Captain
I agree wholeheartedly with your comment & observations! I might also add that at the beginning of mint issued new offerings, large modern coin dealers buy them up & rapidly get the slabbed so-called perfect PR or MS 70 specimens out at FAST at outrageously high prices with the misleading and worthless attributes of “First Strike”, “Early Release” etc. The market collapses even faster on these slabbed issues and most collectors are stung and essentially have bought plastic and adjectives on coins for which there is relatively little qualitative difference to the coins in original mint packaging! There are many collectors out there holding these “perfect” coins who will never see their original investment back (in their lifetime, LOL) As to the artificial rarities that Canada & U.K. produce, while some are quite beautiful, you are spot-on with your note on the bullion upcharge. Nicking the collector with a 50%-100% upcharge on the raw bullion is ludicrous. On top of that, if you were to pay the slabbed coin upcharge along with it, well, what true collector could afford it? There are already low mintage “confections” in the U.S. Mint product line, most notably, the First Spouse gold coins. These are low mintage EVERY year and interest wanes in them more in each passing year. Why? Because it is a patently silly program to put ladies on the coins whose only claim to fame (for some) is that they were hitched to a U.S. President (who again, may be obscure, criminal, or a hero).This series is an object lesson for anyone one who wishes to collect precious metals bullion coin series or in a redundant obsessive chronological date collection. I personally still enjoy the U.S. Platinum bullion coin series as a new reverse design has been introduced every year, continuously, since 1998.
The issue isn’t about raising the price to cover increased production and material costs, or even to keep pace with inflation. That happens in all businesses. No this is about sneaking in increases on material even as those materials are dropping in price. If the Mint wanted to increase overall prices fine increase the introductory price, they’ve done that already with other products like the proof ASE. Their sales on gold products are already suffering, I’m not sure how this is supposed to help.
From my own perspective I just turned back to the Mint after giving up on Perth and other world mints because of their crazy premiums. My reward is this garbage.
T-1,
Per my understanding the U.S. Mint suspended its attempt to update its technology infrastructure.
Yes “captain obvious” everyone knows that modern numismatics demand a premium vs bullion. The issue is IMHO is that the mint knows it will not get any “new” collectors for the FS coins or the AGE proofs so it is squeezing it collector base. Based on the posts in this blog that collector base is voting with their feet.
Sauce,
I am in the same boat as you as I’d been planning on buying a 2013 proof buffalo. I’ve found that quite a few Eastern European numismatic pieces, especially Polish coins, seem to sell quite close to spot if you can find a decent seller. You might consider looking at them.
saucexx
If you stick to just buying directly from the U.S. mint and only coins in OGP you should do OK, even with the price increases. Just make sure it is a series you can afford for the long haul and definitely stay away from the slabbed 70 stuff or just wait 1-2 years in the aftermarket on Ebay and snap them up in 69 slabs at melt value as many savvy collectors do.
Yes, I wanted to purchase a set of the Canada 2006 Constellation Palladium coins. They are truly unique and a wonderful theme & concept! I wondered why they were so high priced on Ebay for a recent bullion coin. There were only 300 sets made. Well, the Canada mint charged a HUGE premium over bullion on these coins (and I mean, insanely high). In the last two years I have seen a number of these sets for sale. They were at the original mint offer price or lower, and did not sell! There is a lesson here: The original buyers who leaped to buy these artificial rarity coins truly do have something special, a great rarity item that nobody wants. Those that purchased them as slabbed 70 specimens have lost so much money on their purchase will probably never speak of the foolish thing they did with their money, hard-earned or not!
The way i read it the FS coins will be going up on 2/27/13. I would not take any chances buy them now or pay the new price on 2/27.
I wish that the Mint had a Buffalo or Eagle for sale now because I would be in on it. The 2013 Buffalo reverse proof set seems like a pipe dream now. And what happened to the five ounce coins for 2013?
I will be in on the new price grid. Who are we kidding? They Where else can I get a 2013 Buffalo or AGE?
Are strange things going on in Government, the dollar, and pricing at the Mint? you bet. Are people fed up with sinking money into what’s beginning to look like vanishing returns on their investments/hobby? absolutely. I just feel like many of what I have a chance to buy from the Mint at this time are making a place in history. FS coin’s I stay away from, just because their mintage range is typical, but anything that drops dramatically has to retain value, in my opinion. I don’t depend on the Mints pricing to make a change in my personal finances, so I’m either in or out, no more simple than that. I’ll be watching.
Gary: sure wouldn’t want that to happen.
Gold buying is crazy.
It’s done. As of about noon today. All PM prices have been adjusted. Including 2012 First Spouses and the 2012 Proof Platinum. The Federal Register wording was not well done because it specifically stated that the change was being made for 2013 products.