2014 Eleanor Roosevelt First Spouse Gold Coin

Today, September 4, 2014 at 12:00 Noon ET, the United States Mint will begin accepting orders for the 2014 Eleanor Roosevelt First Spouse Gold Coins. This will represent the fourth and final release of the year for the 24 karat gold coin series honoring the spouses of the Presidents.

Eleanor Rooesvelt First Spouse Gold Coin

The obverse design features a portrait of Eleanor Roosevelt designed by Chris Costello and engraved by Phebe Hemphill. The surrounding inscriptions read “Eleanor Roosevelt”, “In God We Trust”, “Liberty”, “2014 W”, “32nd” and “1933-1945”. Within the design selection phase, both the Commission of Fine Arts (CFA) and Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee (CCAC) had recommended this obverse design from the seven candidates.

The reverse of the coin carries a depiction of Mrs. Roosevelt’s right hand lighting a candle. The light of the candle rises over a stylized graphic of the Earth’s curved horizon to symbolize her life’s work and the global impact of her humanitarian initiatives. The reverse was designed by Chris Costello and engraved by Renata Gordon. Within the design review phase, the CCAC had recommended this design from the six candidates. The CFA had recommended an alternate design showcasing Mrs. Roosevelt’s role as a delegate to the United Nations.

A maximum mintage of 10,000 pieces has been established for the Eleanor Roosevelt First Spouse Gold Coins across proof and uncirculated versions. This is the same maximum in place for the other three releases for this year. The ratio of proof to uncirculated coins will be determined based on customer demand.

Initial pricing for the coins will be $840 for the proof version and $820 for the uncirculated version. These prices are based on an average market price of gold within the $1,250 to $1,299.99 range. Pricing will remain subject to potential weekly change based on fluctuations in the market price of gold.

The three previous releases of the First Spouse Gold Coin Program for this year have featured Florence Harding, Grace Coolidge, and Lou Hoover. Based on the figures from the latest weekly sales report, across proof and uncirculated versions sales have reached 2,971 units for Harding, 2,794 units for Coolidge, and 2,037 units for Hoover.

Next year, the series will feature Elizabeth Truman, Mamie Eisenhower, Jacqueline Kennedy, and Claudia Taylor “Lady Bird” Johnson.

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Comments

  1. VA Bob says

    Has Don Knott’s been deceased more than two years? Just want to make sure these coins follow procedure. 😉

  2. Hidalgo says

    We may see increased sales of First Spouse gold coins beginning with the Eleanor Roosevelt version. Ms. Roosevelt was an extremely popular, influential, and well-known First Lady. Many Americans, who are alive today, can still recall her contributions.

    Similarly, many Baby Boomers and Generation X’ers can still remember Elizabeth Truman, Mamie Eisenhower, Jacqueline Kennedy, and Claudia Taylor “Lady Bird” Johnson. So First Spouse coins featuring these ladies may sell well after they are introduced.

    We’ll have to wait and see.

  3. cagcrisp says

    Wow…Talk about taking a Bath…..

    2014 W GOLD KENNEDY HALF GOLD 50C NGC PF70 HIGH RELIEF EARLY RELEASES No Reserve

    Sold 09/03/14 for…………..$1,325.00

  4. Small time collector says

    @Hildago – as a boomer I recall JK-O and Lady Bird well. both have little appeal to me on a collectible coin. I won’t, and can’t see many others buying into the series mid-stream. My gut feeling is that the series sales will continue to erode.
    I may be viewed as redundant: I think the mint needs to re-think their entire process of initializing potential coin topics and the artwork. More history, more interesting subject matter and revitalized iconic (old) designs will go a long way,

  5. Hidalgo says

    @Small Time Collector – I personally have no intention of buying and of the 20th Century First Lady gold coins. However, others may.

    Many designs and themes are politically motivated. I’m sure that women’s groups lobbied to have spouses recognized on gold coins.

  6. Hawkster says

    A & L Futures,

    I guess there could be some symbolism with Eleanor’s image looking like Molly Brown, as A&L Futures points out. This First Spouse series seems to be following the same course as the ill-fated Titanic: sinking fast.

  7. Small time collector says

    @Hilgado – I didn’t think you were saying you’d buy-in. Your observation on motivation rings true, I was not sure how far I can go on this blog. Special interist groups cannot champion mint products that will have mass appeal.

    @Boz – I have to smile. my ideas that prompted previous posts included eli whitney/cotton gin, benjamin wright/erie canal, edison/take your pick, henry ford/assy line, etc. a series such as this could go on a long time or cut off if interest wanes. They can be done in rapid succession or close to a anniversary of the event. I rather not see them as an anniversary offering. Other potential subjects: american exlorers and their territory, designers of major public works, national monuments,…,there are many possibilities.
    I did not think it wise to emblazon modern products, leaving that the the specialty mints. If the mint did pursue your concept I hope they would do them as 5oz ATB’s. They’d look good displayed in a shop.

  8. Hawkster says

    Hey Boz,

    As pointed out by many recent commenters, we don’t want to see the U.S. Mint turn into another Perth or Canadian Mint by producing coin series for every conceivable topic, famous person, invention, anniversary of some type, etc. As it is now, the Mint has too many offerings.

  9. MarkInFlorida says

    The FDR looks like a cross between LBJ and Donald Rumsfeld, and Eleanor looks Chinese. No thanks, Mint, just keep reissuing great looking coins from 100 years ago.

  10. gary says

    As a boomer myself, a lot of us who collected have been liquidating our collections rather than adding new modern bullion coins. That would also include bullion gold & silver and especially so in rising price markets. Just what the younger generation will choose to collect is a great question. With the concerns of paying for college and raising a family it may be nothing at all or to greatly simplify the idea of coin collection to that of type coin collection. A single specimen is all that is needed to appreciate a design from an era, not obsessively obtaining one every year. It could be why the annual staples of proof and mint sets sell fewer and fewer nearly every consecutive year.

  11. FCA Bob says

    I could see FS mintages dropping to the 500 level. However I won’t buy in until they are below 100. 😉

  12. Sith says

    I’m generation X and I remember the stories about her from teachers. It will have the same effect on me buying one as watching “Just say No” Nancy Reagan on TV, that is none. The only FS coin I would be interested in is Jackie O, she had class.

    Anyway IMHO the sales of this coin will be more affected by the fact that she looks like Aunt Bee from the Andy Griffith show, than anything else

  13. Small time collector says

    @Hawkster – The US mint will not become as those if they kept special interests out of the selection process and concentrated on important historical events, people, places and things. It’s not too far off what they are offering now. Refining the selection process and how designs are developed would insure the mint has interesting and meaningful products for years to come. Following a theme would allow a series to continue as long as there is interest. I can see the AE going on for years, attractive to stackers and in Pr and RP collectors alike. Pulling from historic designs should be a filler product occasionally produced to inject interest in coinage history.
    Everyone has an opinion, I’ve read much here of the dissatisfaction of recent offerings. In no way is it suggested to open the floodgates of US mint offerings. I think (others?) that recent themes are failing.
    Don’t you have any ideas or desires for future “collectible” mint products that are worth mentioning?

  14. gary says

    When I found out that the Perth Mint is a mint-for-hire to produce quasi-national coins for wealthy coin dealers, ALL of their stuff is off limits to me. My wish is that the U.S. Mint refrain from that. They should also refrain from the long winded 10-11 year series of coins, especially in PM.

  15. Sith says

    What everyone is forgetting is that the FS coins are an add on program to the Presidential dollar series. As such it was intended to complement the soon to be circulating $1 coins. If the husbands who were the actual presidents got little interest from collectors, and no interest from the general public what chance did did their spouses have to generate a successful program.

    Then add the price of gold sky rocketed right after the program started, yes I know the gold price is collapsing and according to some people here I’m a fool for buying gold, but the initial coins were issued at the current rock bottom price of $429.95, compared that to the current “end of the gold bull” price of $840.

  16. Small time collector says

    @Sith – unless you are buying to invest I wouldn’t get too worried. Many hobbies consume way more $ than coin collecting.

  17. cagcrisp says

    Opening Day Only Sales Silver Kennedy (Sorted lowest/highest)

    • Dustyroads 64,000 08/09
    • CaptainOverkill 75,000 08/08
    • thePhelps 85,500 08/08
    • bg35765 87,281 08/25
    • GoldFishin 88,844 08/09
    • HiCal 93,564 08/08
    • Sith 100k 08/09
    • VA Bob 105k 08/08
    • Louis 115k 08/09
    • VA Rich 100k on 08/08/14 ; 137k 08/09
    • Pittsburgh P 148,888 08/08
    • Bob R 169,000 08/08
    • Hawkster 184,546 08/08
    • cagcrisp 212,125 08/08

  18. VA Bob says

    Hidalgo – The problem with those special interest groups making all the recommendations is that those groups don’t seem to buy the coins. CR and GSA come to mind as glaring examples.

  19. Hawkster says

    Small time collector,

    You mention in your reply to me that, “following a theme would allow a coin series to continue as long as there is interest”. Further, you ask me if I have any ideas for future Mint collectibles.
    Well, as long as you post this challenge to me, why not a Playboy Playmate of the Year series in high relief? I think this would meet your criterion of high interest in a series of many years. It would also do a helluva lot better than the FS series, and there would be no complaints in regard to how the ladies look.

  20. Hawkster says

    Cagcrisp,

    I’m loving your posts in regard to the nightmares the Kennedy gold flippers are experiencing with their tanking Ebay selling prices. Keep them coming.

  21. gary says

    Hawkster… I guess the flippers did not take notice that the gold Kennedy would be minted to demand. Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.

  22. Small time collector says

    @Hawkster – is that the best you can come up with? Your choice would seem to have none of the “important historical events, people, places and things”. I further wrote “Following a theme would allow a series to continue as long as there is interest.”
    Lastly there was no “challenge” involved in my question “Don’t you have any ideas or desires for future “collectible” mint products that are worth mentioning?”
    I guess not? A post above post indicates your dream can be realized by contacting the perth mint. 🙂

  23. Hawkster says

    Hasn’t anyone noticed that Eleanor is depicted wearing a fur-collared coat? You can be sure that back in the 30’s and 40’s real animal fur was used for ladies’ coats. I’ll even venture to say that Eleanor stored such coats at a New York City fur vault, as was the practice years ago.
    PETA is a women’s activist group that preaches for the ethical treatment of animals. They have especially gone after the use of genuine fur coats, citing the number of animals that have been killed to make said coats.
    No doubt, the MINT risks incurring the wrath of PETA once the organization finds out about fur being depicted on a modern coin. It’s members will boycott Mint offerings. Protests will take place at Mint facilities. Headlines will be made.

  24. stephen m says

    gary, reminds me I worked with a man one time and on his workbench there was a sign that said “I Can’t Fix Stupid”.

  25. cagcrisp says

    @VA Rich, Yep… Your guess was 100k Ready for Opening Day. Your Opening Day Sales guess was 137k. So…..you missed it 50%. If you Miss your 137k by 50% then that would be Opening Day Sales of 205,500. That would make the Winner ….Let Me Look….Cagcrisp,,,,hmmm….

  26. Hawkster says

    Small time collector,

    The only idea or desire I have is for the Mint to cut back on the number of “anniversaries” it uses as a justification to pump out “special” coins, especially commemoratives. I think they’ve taken this anniversary thing a little too far.

  27. cagcrisp says

    IF are looking to get a Graded Gold Kennedy 69 or 70, there are 4-70’s and 3-69’s being Auctioned within the Next 2 hours by the Same Dealer…

  28. Small time collector says

    @Hawk – When I originally posted I was actually hoping to hear of your ideas for a future mint coin.
    Re anniversary coins, I think some are suitable, major events are a great subject and agree every anniversary is not worthy of a coin.
    Getting down to nuts and bolts I see no reason for some of the recent offerings. I get that the mint wants to attract younger collectors with modest budgets, I think that is resulting in Ag and Au and perhaps even may result in smaller denominations but more finishes in the future.
    I also get what you are saying about ann sets. I like to see “special” things come out from the mint, the Buffalo’s were a nice add, will they be here forever? The Buffalo small denominations seem to be the real interest pieces. I hope to maybe see them return. The recurrently mentioned walking Liberties and Merc Dimes I look forward to as well.

    OT here I received my replacement K15 today, perfect , this time.

  29. thePhelps says

    Hawkster and STC… you are overlooking the obvious issue the mint has to deal with. They don’t get to mint whatever they like. They have to mint within the constraints of exist laws – that allow them to produce special coins. That is why they mint coins like a gold Kennedy etc… because the existing laws let them. The gold coins are done because of an exception clause that was written for gold products.

    The mint can’t just make coins up like most of the other world mints – they have to follow what congress sends them.

  30. GoldFishin says

    @ US Mint- bring back the fractional gold buffaloes. What in the world is taking so long? You obviously have plenty of gold now. How about taking some of those JFK returns and turning them into buffaloes. Thank you!

    @Cagcrisp- 150,000 ready to go. Flipper’s “Nightmare on Bay Street 2”, the sequel. However, without competing with Chicago or Baltimore this go round the flipper’s that are quick to the draw may make a few bucks with graded coins until the Bay is overwhelmed with supply, again. Is it confirmed that the silver set will be mint to demand again? Last thing I read seemed that they said it would be.

  31. VA Bob says

    Gary – It didn’t matter if the JFK was mint to demand (so was the UHR, RP Buff, Proof and UNC ASE’s, and every annual proof, unc, and silver set to name a few). The just believe they have to try. It will happen again after someone makes a killing of some Mint product. It’s fine for some, not really my cup of tea.

  32. VA Rich says

    GF – 150 to go & no show, yeah, Flippers Nightmare.

    The amazing thing about these major modern releases is.., they all take on their own form, & they’ll still be surprises with the silver’s to come…, gotta love it!

  33. GoldFishin says

    @STC- thanks for the link! All the relevant mint info in one convenient location. I have to read it all later. It’s time for a little football!

  34. cagcrisp says

    As long as the Mint has their Liberal Return policy it will be Buy Limit, List for Sell, Sell/No Sell, Return/Don’t Accept/Refund…

    Repeat…Repeat…Repeat

    The Only reason we have found out Just How Many Flippers we have is because the Gold Kennedy (Unlike the BHOF coins) did Not Flip for Profit…

  35. VA Bob says

    GoldFishin – I like the gold fractionals (Buff and Eagles), but I don’t want the Mint to bring them back. Here’s why: They would sell well the first year or two, Then after that they would be pretty, over priced bullion, just like the fractional AGE’s are, with very little numismatic demand even with low mintages. The Buff frac’s and AGE frac’s would be in direct competition with each other, lowering mintages for both products (which means more expense for the Mint). It could even lower the future value of the 2008’s, if the mintages got lower for the later years. Most people that want them to make more fractionals, don’t have the 2008’s and are yearning for lightning to strike twice.

    My personal feeling on that are to let it go, the ship has sailed. Now if they changed the design and implemented yearly fractionals, that’s a different story. No harm to the value of the 2008.

  36. Hawkster says

    STC,

    O.K., you are obviously trying to pin me down as to an idea for a future Mint coin. Will you settle for a Mint medal? If so, my nominee for a bronze or silver medal is a foreign born person whose invention is responsible for me being able to communicate with you: Nikola Tesla, the inventor of AC electricity. His former laboratory, Wardenclyffe, is a few miles away from me on Long Island.

  37. VA Bob says

    Speaking of flippers, I wonder if Evil Flipper went in on this one. Haven’t seen him around in a long time.

  38. cagcrisp says

    The 3-69’s have just concluded:

    $1,128.60
    $1,128.60
    $1,131.60

    Now the 4-70’s will conclude in the next few minutes…

  39. VA Bob says

    I’m growing tired of the long series. It happened with the state quarters. The presidents was a flop (as intended for circulation purposes), The FS series lost a lot of people when gold prices rose, and the dry spell of mediocre first ladies. I believe the ATB’s will hit the wall next year, if the designs for next year are any indicator, plus they aren’t as popular as even the SQ program was. We still have many years to go too.

  40. GoldFishin says

    @VA BOB- all of what you said is undoubtedly true. I just like the Buffalo design and can’t afford to buy a 1 oz. coin every year. I have already been buying the Perth mint 1/4 oz or 1/2 oz gold “Year Of” coins, but would prefer to spend the money on the U.S. buffalo coins.

  41. Jerry Diekmann says

    Echoing Hidalgo’s sentiments, I have never bought a FS coin, but if I were to, there would be only two I would consider – Eleanor Roosevelt and Jacqueline Kennedy. At least they will be separated by enough time that I might be able to buy one of each.

  42. VaBeachSteve says

    @Hidalgo – i actually agree with you that next years Spouses’ will have higher sales numbers. Personally, I think Jackie O will sale out and draw a premium on the secondary market. I have collected the Proof versions since the beginning and I’m looking forward to finishing up the last 6 to make it complete. I know, I know ….. Most on the board hate this series and thinks it will have no value years down the road, but i agree to disagree. If there’s a guy out there who will pay $100K for the first Kennedy Gold, then anything is possible!

  43. Hawkster says

    VaBob,

    Oh yeah, Evil Flipper–now there’s a name from the past. Anyone remember Hi Ho Silver, who went on to become High Low Silver? He evidently opted out of coins to collect sea shells. How about Cleveland Rocks, who got pounded by his fellow commenters after he called the curved HOF offerings “circus coins”. Every once in a while Cleveland comes out from under his rock and posts a comment. And fmtransmitter is now posting at a much lower frequency.
    Yeah posters come and go. Some drop in once or twice, never to be heard from again. Group dynamics at play.

  44. Hawkster says

    Sith,

    Amazing, the London Mint actually carried out a Playmate series! Thanks for the titillating link.

  45. Small time collector says

    Hawk – thanks for playing along. being a retired engineer I like the idea of tesla (a naturalized us citizen). He does fit one of the categories to consider (inventors) I previously posted. These are exactly the types of things that I feel hold broad interest and should be considered for future mintage.
    @Sith – I bet that’s a big seller for them, jk. I thought about mentioning one of my childhood favorite coins to Hawk: my front/back female torso “heads I win tails you lose” token. It saw some use and with worn details (sic) would grade out at a 62 at best.

  46. Jerry Diekmann says

    Hawkster – the main purpose of commemorative coins was to honor a current event (Olympics), for example, or the anniversary of an important historical event (Statue of Liberty), for example. I would be the first person to agree with you that the Mint has botched up this process terribly, with issue dates of many commemoratives different than the true anniversary dates – there are too many to think of, but go back to 1991 and the 38th anniversary of the end of the Korean War as a starting point and go forward from there. To compound these “mistakes”, they have left important anniversaries go by without issuing a commemorative coin. The worst case that comes to mind is not recognizing the 150th anniversary of the birth of Theodore Roosevelt in 2008. There is no excuse for this omission because there was only one commemorative coin event that yaer, and it was for the bald eagle, which could have been issued in any year, I think. I know, we should blame Congress as much as the Mint, but both of them are in Washington, DC, and nothing good seems to come out of DC anymore.

  47. cagcrisp says

    7 coins Graded, 7 coins Sold, The $1,421.01 is the only one that I could see as a Possibility for a Profitable Flip…

  48. Small time collector says

    addenda – there are currently several tesla medals and coins. no us mintages.
    I say add him to the list along with the many significant inventions/events that shaped this country. I feel ideas wrought from thoughtful discussion may ultimately bring us superior product selection.

  49. Hawkster says

    Jerry D,

    In addition to the Korean War commemorative that you mention, the 2005 U.S. Marines commemorative was issued to celebrate their 230th anniversary, which is a pretty odd number. I guess the Mint couldn’t wait another twenty years to celebrate the more sensible 250th year of the Marines.

  50. Jerry Diekmann says

    Small time collector – maybe you and some others might be interested in this story. Several years ago I developed the idea of a series of commemorative coins based on the concept of American patriots and heroes, with an emphasis on men and women of all creeds and colors who deserved this title, but who, for the most part, were not all that well known. I had envisioned a coin series of half dollars in the hopes that half dollars could once again maybe circulate, like they did when I was a boy and a young man (I am 70 years old now), since it was apparent to me that the Sacagawea and the newly issued (at the time) Presidential dollars were not ever going to circulate. Anyway, I came up with a list of maybe 50 or so people I thought, based on my research, deserved recognition, some of them accomplishing much more good than 2/3 of the presidents we have had in the White House. I came up with brief biographies noting the accomplishments of these hoped for candidates. When finished, I had a small package, and I sent one to each of my California senators, one to the Mint, and one to Coin World newspaper. I never heard one word back from either of the senators or the U.S. Mint – no hello, good-bye, thank you, buzz off, or kiss my ass – nothing (I want my postage $ back)! As for Coin World, the editor, Beth Deisher at the time, shot me out of the saddle with a bazooka, saying it was ill-conceived, unnecessary, wouldn’t ever fly, wouldn’t be supported by her or Coin World, and was not feasible as an idea. After I crawloed under the nearest rock, I let the matter drop. Maybe it is worth considering again – I don’t know. I think personally it would be beneficial for Americans to learn more of the unsung heroes in this country. I did not offer anything restrictive in the designs, other than the obverse would show a portrait of the person being honored. The reverse would be up to historians, researchers, and artists. Although I had recommended a series of half dollars, the series could have been on any coin large enough to show a portrait, nickel, quarter, or half dollar. I would not envision a dollar coin, as these coins would be meant to circulate, and dollar coins have NEVER circulated in the history of this country, one reason why there are so many high-grade Morgans out ther even though some of them are over 130 years old now, and the lifeblood of many coin dealers. I did not specify a metal content, although I imagine they could be issued in PM for collectors. I don’t really know if my idea would fly now, five years or so later, or if I need an imprimatur from Q. David Bowers or the ANA (of which I am NOT a member) for the idea to obtain any traction. If anyone has any comments or suggestions, please let me know. Thanks. I know I think it is a good idea, but a lot of good ideas go away and die, never to be seen again, and I realize that.

  51. Jerry Diekmann says

    Hawkster – there are all kinds of weird “anniversaries”, so many that the concept no longer makes any sense when it comes to the U.S. Mint and commemorative coins. Here’s a few others: Yellowstone – 1999 – on the 127th anniversary of it as the first national park in 1872; Civil War – 1995 – on the 130th anniversary of the last year of the war, or the 134th year if you use 1861, the first year of the war, Thomas Jefferson – 1994 (but back dated on the coin to 1993) – the 251st anniversary of his birth in 1743; Black revolutionary Patriots – 1998 – the 228th anniversary of Crispus Attucks’ death in the 1770 Boston Massacre; Girl Scouts – 2013 – 101st anniversary of their founding in 1912. If a Mother’s Day coin is ever approved (it has been introduced since 2008, and earlier this year), you can be sure it will miss its centennial because 2014 is the 100th anniversary of the day being recognized as a holiday in the United States. Theodore Roosevelt, great enough to have his visage carved on Mt. Rushmore, was passed over for a commemorative coin in 2008, like I mentioned earlier, and the same dishonor befell Alexander Hamilton, who created our coinage system and has appeared on the $10.00 bill since 1929, in 2007 which would have marked the 250th anniversary of his birth. Note – he was born “illegitimate”, and his exact birth year is unknown – it could have been 1755, the same year as John Marshall, who was recognized on a coin in 2005. The bottom line is that there appears to be no logical reason on when commemorative coins are issued anymore, compared to the events they are supposed to commemorate. I guess that is all we can expect from Congress and the Mint today – it’s a shame, and it shouldn’t be that way. I’ll step off my soapbox now.

  52. says

    cagcrisp, The opportunities for owning the gold Kennedy from an Ebay purchase are astounding. I can’t help wondering what the US Mints production plans are now after watching the carnage unfolding in Ebay auctions. I love it!

  53. Hawkster says

    Yes, there are several Tesla medals, and even coins, that have been issued by foreign countries and, in one case, the Pond Institute. Unfortunately, they have not been very well executed in terms of artistic design and engraving. Some are actually primitive looking.
    Our Mint has the skilled artists and engravers to do Tesla justice. A depiction of his classic side facing portrait, along with the Tesla Tower at Wardenclyffe on the reverse, would make for one nice medal.

  54. Hawkster says

    Jerry D.,

    Never mind all these odd anniversaries for the commemoratives, I’m just very impressed that you were able to compile the list in such short order. Thanks.

  55. VA Bob says

    Jerry – They sort of tried that (honoring deserved people) with a commemorative coin. The 1998 Crispus Attucks (Unc. 37,210 Proof 75,070 with a 500K authorized mintage) and 2009 Louis Braille (Unc 41,212 Proof 108,558 Easy Open 17,756 with a 400K authorized mintage) come to mind, neither coin coming close to its authorized mintages (and we didn’t even get a proof or unc ASE in 2009 which left silver dollar seekers wanting).

    While a noble effort on your part (which I sincerely applaud), I believe the Mint personnel roll their eyes when they get legislation handed to them to Mint these type of coins, because they know they aren’t going to be big sellers. History is an important part of coin collecting (to me anyway), but topics can be narrow to the point it only interests a small group and narrowed further to someone also interested in coins. It’s difficult enough to get “big” history topics to sell on coinage. I believe that why many collectors prefer the concept of Lady Liberty or Native American/western themes. Not a lot to research (for better or worse) to enjoy.

  56. Small time collector says

    Jerry D. – what you are suggesting is parallel to what I wrote several days ago. I think well known events and the corresponding person (or vice versa) is a very good means to insure a enduring stream of new mintage’s.
    There is so much history and important people, places and things that possibilities are endless. I feel it’s important to not draw subject matter from the obscure so as keep wide appeal.
    Again, the goal is not to flood the market, but to keep our interest.

  57. Jerry Diekmann says

    Hawkster – thanks, but not too hard to do when you have been collecting coins for over 50 years. i remember when all the dimes, quarters, and half dollars were silver, and the half dollars circulated as freely as the quarters. If you were going to get change from a dollar of more than 50 cents, most likely you would be given a half dollar, not two quarters. That came about later when the JFK half dollars were hoarded. Then silver was removed from dimes and quarters in 1965 and from half dollars in 1971. The combination of these factors resulted in half dollars going out of circulation. When the mint tried to stem the tide by minting miliions of clad halves, people were already used to using two quarters, and the half ceased to be a circulating coin. Even today you can occasionally find a 1971, 1972, or a 1976 bicentennial half dollar in nearly uncirculated condition, this generation’s version of the Morgan dollar, but unlike the dollar coin, JFK clad coins will never be worth much more than their face value.

  58. Jerry Diekmann says

    VA Bob – you are probably right. I’m just an old fool, I guess, thinking that the more you know, the more you might appreciate what made this country great. There are a lot of unsung heroes out there who really should be better known. But I understand what you’re saying, and the attention span and interest of a lot of people is not very long or wide.

  59. Clark says

    After the last two years of cramming almost all first spouse coins into the end of year releases, it’s refreshing to have the last of the 2014 gold first spouse coins issued in September. It is a much more manageable pace for those of us who faithfully collect them, especially collectors of both unc and prf versions. 2013 was particularly painful because of all the Wilson women.

    OT, I returned my JFK gold for a replacement because of an glaring 3mm nick between the “T” and “Y” in “Liberty” in hope of getting a better specimen for my humble, but complete, Kennedy Half Dollar Dansco album set. I’m wondering if US Mint employees screen coins or if that role was delegated to PBGS/Novitex personnel. If the latter, perhaps the new fulfillment contractor will help improve quality controls. We can only hope.

  60. Jerry Diekmann says

    Small time collector – I certainly agree with you, but some of the other bloggers are right – the concept I have is probably just too complicated and cumbersome to work for the general public. We need to realize that most people don’t give a hoot about coins, designs, their history, or the history of this country, for that matter. And as VA Bob said, very few collectors bought the Crispus Attucks or Louis Braille coins. I’m sure that 99% of Americans don’t know who Crispus Attucks was, and I myself wondered why Congress and the Mint decided on a coin honoring a French citizen. Certainly Braille deserves to be honored, but I’m thinking the coin might have been authorized by Congress as a favor to the blind and disability lobby here in the United States. That being said, I thought the coin was nicely done, and I bought a proof and an uncirculated dollar. Same for the Crispus Attucks dollar.

  61. VA Bob says

    Well don’t give up hope Jerry, the Mint might pull out a stunner and surprise you. The US Marshall’s set looking interesting. Not quite what you envisioned, but some history there none the less. We’ll see how good the designs transfers to metal.

  62. fmtransmitter says

    And fmtransmitter is now posting at a much lower frequency. Hey I resent being mentioned with those other two bozos! I am moving this weekend! I haven’t gone anywhere and plan to be a main stay but yes posting less frequent has been a pleasure to others including myself…

  63. Sith says

    My 2cents about a series of lesser known patriots is simple it’s to political, nice idea but imagine the fight over who should be honored, how about my grandpapi Major John Doe… You would need some sort of criteria . That is why the use generic commeratives for battles, people (Medal of Honor), and things.

  64. Pittsburgh P says

    FMT to funny 😉
    I don’t think you were bein compared to the two other posters they were just observations… Hi low Silver poppef back up a few weeks ago if I remember correctly – his seashell collection is stunning and beyond comparision to ANY coin or PM!!!

    Yeah Hawkster we hear from Cleveland Rocks about 2 – 3 times a month. Always goed the same way:

    Old format please.

    Michael can we go back to the old format?

    I’m having trouble with this format. Is unc dollar set sold out?

    And so on and on and on 🙂

  65. gary says

    As long as commemorative coin bills rely on their introduction by members of Congress (often with the urging & support of the benefitting organization) along with built-in design restrictions, I expect that U.S. Mint commemoratives will continue their lackluster path in the future. Input from the Mint should be solicited for the viability of the programs BEFORE they are made into law.

  66. VARich says

    STC ~ from that link you provided, if go to the Updates page, each Comm program is laid out in detail, I was really surprised how some of the designs are clearly defined by law, & bulk discounts on Comms is permitted.

  67. VARich says

    Here’s an example-

    3) Coin images.– (A) $5 gold coins.– [[Page 126 STAT. 288]] (i) Obverse.–The obverse of the $5 coins issued under this Act shall bear an image of the United States Marshals Service Star (also known as “America’s Star”). (ii) Reverse.–The reverse of the $5 coins issued under this Act shall bear a design emblematic of the sacrifice and service of the men and women of the United States Marshals Service who lost their lives in the line of duty and include the Marshals Service motto “Justice, Integrity, Service”. (B) $1 silver coins.– (i) Obverse.–The obverse of the $1 coins issued under this Act shall bear an image of the United States Marshals Service Star (also known as “America’s Star”). (ii) Reverse.–The reverse of the $1 silver coins issued under this Act shall bear an image emblematic of the United States Marshals legendary status in America’s cultural landscape. The image should depict Marshals as the lawmen of our frontiers, including their geographic, political, or cultural history, and shall include the Marshals Service motto “Justice, Integrity, Service”. (C) Half dollar clad coins.– (i) Obverse.–The obverse of the half dollar clad coins issued under this Act shall bear an image emblematic of the United States Marshals Service and its history. (ii) Reverse.–The reverse of the half dollar clad coins issued under this Act shall bear an image consistent with the role that the United States Marshals played in a changing nation, as they were involved in some of the most pivotal social issues in American history. The image should show the ties that the Marshals have to the United States Constitution, with themes including– (I) the Whiskey Rebellion and the rule of law; (II) slavery and the legacy of inequality; and (III) the struggle between labor and capital. (4) Realistic and historically accurate depictions.–The images for the designs of coins issued under this Act shall be selected on the basis of the realism and historical accuracy of the images and on the extent to which the images are reminiscent of the dramatic and beautiful artwork on coins of the so-called “Golden Age of Coinage” in the United States, at the beginning of the 20th Century, with the participation of such noted sculptors and medallic artists as James Earle Fraser, Augustus Saint-Gaudens, Victor David Brenner, Adolph A. Weinman, Charles E. Barber, and George T. Morgan.

  68. Small time collector says

    cagcrisp – lmao, I don’t know what happened to usmint site, I was researching images of all products and page suddenly would not load. I tried several times and then when I searched usmint, govmint popped up as a search. I see that it is a .com, not .gov, I had never seen the site and got confused (easy for me) thought it was a new .gov site, or ??
    Sorry folks for my confusion.

  69. gary says

    smcs… The confusion is EXACTLY what the govmint.com site banks on. They are a well established and extremely overpriced internet coin dealer. You would do much better, coin for coin, with Apmex on common modern coins or better still, with patience, catch a bargain on Ebay (research coins value first).

  70. Small time collector says

    @gary – thank you. you summarized my buying tendencies well. govmint had never seen the site. I buy usmint, occasionally ebay, and several years ago when stacking silver, apmex.
    With apmex I tired of getting their price, then having some form of a buyers surcharge, tax + shipping.
    For the past 8 years it has been usmint and ebay only.

  71. Pittsburgh P says

    STC do you live in NY or OK? If not you shouldn’t be taxed by APMEX. Their standard shipping of 9.95$ is a pain but I have found if you call and ask for free shipping over half the time they have given it to me. Also if you buy from them through eBay shipping is free. I don’t use em too much but if I do I’m try to wait until I can make one large purchase in case I do have to pay for shipping.

    Cag I hear you about GovMint lol! Once in a blue moon they will have an exclusive offering that is priced accordingly(for them that is a great deal!) I gave them a text plus phone number & an email I never use. I check them periodically & they are full with messages from them everytime!!! Crazy…

  72. cagcrisp says

    How much would it cost to Purchase 1 of Each item the Mint Currently has for Sale?

    Currently on the Weekly excel spreadsheet there are 274 items listed. Of the 274, 181 items have a “Y” by them.

    Current 1 item Sales Price for the 181 items listed is approximately $28,765.10.

    Total Dollars Sold (Current price) for the 181 items Available for Sale is approximately $353,842,745.60

    For Just the Gold Kennedy Total sales Dollars (64,305 @$1,240.00) is $79,738,200.00

    So….Of the 181 items Available for Sale…..22.5% of$$ is the Gold Kennedy….

  73. gary says

    Collectors of the FS must be a very brave & hearty breed to persevere with the series. At least some of the early issues have good bullion value to help counterbalance the more expensive later releases. The U.S. Mint OGP cost to maintain a complete set of either PR or UNC must be quite staggering. At some point the price of gold should be high enough to reach a break even cost. The lesson to be learned for collectors of modern issues is that low mintage is not enough to insure future rarity and appreciation in price.

  74. Sith says

    @Pittsburgh P – I think STC is talking about the credit card surcharge. APMEX now lists both prices but in the past they would tack it on during checkout.

  75. Sith says

    @gary – I hate to restart a flame war but just a few days ago you called me and anyone who bought a Kennedy a fool, because it amazes “me that people will still stack gold after what has happened in the last 3 years. ” Now you say “At some point the price of gold should be high enough to reach a break even cost.” If it does go higher would not the Kennedy also be a good buy. I have no real intention to reignite a flame war just asking because I can’t follow your logic.

  76. Sith says

    I apologize t the board for this statement but I’m actually curious .

    @Gary – What ” war, famines and such” do you expect in order to achieve this price run up?

  77. Clark says

    Gary–Yes, we first spouse collectors are a thick skinned and very small group. I believe only two regular posters here have been collecting them since ’07. We endure regular insults and dire predictions about this or that theory de jure.

    My collection of PF/MS 70 gold spouses consists of 66 unique coins weighing 33 oz. I also have duplicates of the most popular and least minted. According to my inventory, I’ve spent a little north of $57K to acquire them since ’07. They have a current spot value of ~ $43K. I’ve also collected all bronze versions at grades MS67-69 and spent around $1500 on those.

    My only goal is to bequeath them to my 13 year old son’s as yet unborn first born (when he/she turns 31) to give the series time to age and become even more rare than it is today. I don’t worry much about Jerry D and other posters’ negative predictions about the series because neither they nor I will be alive to see how they actually fare in 50+ years. It’s just a fun way to leave an heir a big chunk of pure gold and the chance at having one helluva rare and controversial collection.

  78. joe says

    I wonder if Hilary Clinton will purchase this coin so she can talk to it? I might save her a few visits to the local seance store.

  79. cagcrisp says

    The Problem I have with bequeathing anything to a young person is the 3-C’s.

    Coke, Corvette, College…

    Which will it Be…?

  80. Clark says

    Cag–lol, yeah that’s why we drafted the bequest to occur at 31 years old. They’re in the bank vault ’til then. I wouldn’t mind if proceeds went for college, but if they haven’t finished college by age 31, then other issues probably exist. Private college tuition is around $35K to $45K today… . It will be many times that in the year 2063 or thereabouts.

    Oh and just to clarify my previous remark, it hasn’t always been fun. I did NOT enjoy shelling out almost two grand for Lou Hoover a couple of weeks ago, but a collection is a collection. After all, collectors must make sacrifices.

  81. Bob R says

    @Clark, I have never collected the FS because of the cost, but I really believe you are correct, in 50 years it will really be something rare and valuable, IMO.

  82. John Q. Coinage says

    It is NOT the Rosevelts, it is the start of the Hollywood Couple series, clearly the models were Ed Begley Jr,. IS FDR & Francis Beauvier (i.e AUNT BEE….or Barney in drag…) is Eleanor – she was not a handsome women but the goons @ the mint actually made her look scary on the coin then Cruellla deVille…..

  83. Ikaika says

    @ Clark

    The FS at least have their gold content. Although not in the near future, the spot price have a good chance of hitting new highs before your time frame. So you should be OK in terms of investiment. Many of us could not afford to keep up with the rising prices. The designs did not help much either.

  84. Buzz Killington says

    @Clark — If I were your unborn grandchild, I would rather have $57K put into a Vanguard index fund, which can’t get lost, stolen, or damaged. Coins are fun to fool around with on the side, but they are NOT a good investment strategy. Why do you think these coin dealers are cold calling former customers to try to push product?

    On the other hand, if you also have $5M in the market, and a big paid off house in a safe neighborhood with a lot of storage space, I can see that a complete set of FS golds would be a fun thing to have.

  85. VA Bob says

    Clark – You’ll be no worse off then anyone else collecting any other form of gold. In fifty years how many of these sets will exist in their entirety, both proof and unc? Not many. Of course it would take someone with deep pockets (if gold is higher, and there is no reason currently to believe otherwise, as it becomes harder to find) to take the entire collection off your grandchild’s hands.

    If I were to collect this entire series probably the only thing I’d have done differently is leave it OGP. It eliminates the overhead upfront and no telling what the TPG’s labels (or opinions) will be worth 50 years from now. The Mint invoices provides provenance of the coins.

  86. gary says

    @Sith, I don’t think you a fool at all. I did not call you such for buying a gold Kennedy coin, nor anyone else for that matter. You, We, I all collect what we like. My discussion centered around “money” and what it historical represented, that being the accounting for the value of commodities and stuff which varied considerably over time. Anyhow, this issue is now passe.

  87. FCA Bob says

    The more I ponder these Spouse Coins the more they reek of Franklin Mint. Where did the FM Employees go anyway? US Mint, I’m willing to bet.

  88. Sith says

    @gary – Those were direct quotes. I wanted you to have the opportunity to clarify those statements,. but as it is impossible to clarify two contradictory ideas, then add to it your idea that all money is based on faith…but you are right this is passe.

  89. Clark says

    Bob R & Ikaika–I wholeheartedly agree with you.

    Buzz Killington–I own some Vanguard fund investments, but my coin collections are my hobby, which is different from investing. I can give both to my heirs, but leaving stock proceeds or checks tells them very little about who I was, how I spent my time and what interested me in life. I suppose I also could have spent the money I used to acquire my prized, unfired, nickel plated Colt Python collection on Vanguard, T. Rowe, etc., but, again, it wouldn’t be a personal gift that, in the case of the Pythons, my son will cherish and pass along.

    VaBob–Don’t worry, I have all the Mint receipts, COAs, capsules and OGP for each gold spouse. You raise a good point about TPG certifications in 50+ years, but it’s easy enough to crack the coins out of slabs with a good metal clamp and some elbow grease. I don’t think they’ll need to, however ; )

  90. Clark says

    I may be alone here, but I sense that most of us have collected over the years not just because we enjoy history and numismatics, but also because of the sense of accomplishment we get when we complete a difficult set or you finally get that rare, key coin. Shouldn’t all those years and all that work go to our kids and grandkids someday? Perhaps it’s part ego, but knowing that I’m building something cool, fun and valuable has been a great motivator for me as I put my various collections together.

    And, it could also be the kid in us that dreams of hidden treasures of gold and silver. Last year here in Santa Fe, a wealthy local art dealer fighting cancer decided to bury a chest of gold, jewels, rubies & emeralds worth over $1 million in the nearby mountains. He wrote a riddle with all the clues he says are needed to find it, but it’s still out there. Sharing what we’ve collected is part of the fun. Just sayin.

    http://www.santafenewmexican.com/news/local_news/treasure-hunter-forrest-fenn-i-love-mysteries/article_7e30a7b9-9fb9-5174-afc4-ea7f316a5d2e.html

  91. Jon in CT says

    Buzz Killington wrote on September 5, 2014 at 3:04 PM:

    @Clark — If I were your unborn grandchild, I would rather have $57K put into a Vanguard index fund, which can’t get lost, stolen, or damaged.

    The PCGS 3000 Index of rare coins has had its ups and downs (coincident with the dot-com boom/bust) and it’s not clear whether any First Lady gold coins will ever be incorporated in that index. But most of my money is allocated in the manner recommended by Warren Buffett earlier this year in his Dear Shareholders Letter sent to owners of Berkshire Hathaway stock. For those whose attention span won’t allow them to read an entire full page of text, the Cliffs Notes summary is: invest 90% in a Vanguard S&P 500 index fund and 10% in short term US Treasury bonds.

  92. Dave says

    @ Buzz K — “September 5, 2014 at 3:04 pm”

    There is not enough room here to adequately respond, however, who said that it can’t get lost or stolen. Not a bet I would take. Just look at what is going on in D.C..

    However, I am not in total disagreement.

  93. Dave says

    @ Clark: September 5, 2014 at 5:21 pm

    Yeah, I agree. Plus precious metals will still be around. I don’t now about anyone else, but I have made a few bucks with coins. In some cases after inflation, more than with any other investment(s).

  94. Dave says

    @ ClarK: September 5, 2014 at 5:21 pm

    Oh yeah – forgot to tell you– I’ve already found it, just didn’t want to tell anyone. LOL!

  95. VA Rich says

    CLARK – I think your aspiriations and intent is awesome! Good for you & the Mrs., will make quite an impression!

    Hell, I’d go bonkers if my grandpa’s left several handfuls of pocket change in a tin can for me in the 40’s when they were starting families!

  96. Buzz Killington says

    @Clark —

    It is true that there is some unavoidable ego involved with the idea of passing along something “cool” to one’s heirs, but it is a temptation that we are best-off resisting. I have been able to do so imperfectly, that’s for sure.

    However much we might be interested in avoiding our mortality, even in being remembered, it is largely in vain. I knew my grandparents, but none of their parents. There is only so many generations that can be kept alive in a family’s history. Eventually, we are all destined to irrelevance.

    One thing I like to consider about passing on “items” is that we are giving our heirs a job. Either be the caretaker of the FS set, or find a buyer. It is a lot of responsibility for a person who might not be interested at all.

    I am still on the young side, I like to think, but unless my children show some real interest, I think one of my retirement hobbies will be liquidating certain parts of the coin collection, esp. those that are worth the least on a space-to-value ratio basis.

  97. Sith says

    Going back to an old point I wonder if a antebellum southerner would rather have rather passed along his\her Confederate dollars or a gold coin….

  98. VA Rich says

    Buzz – give it a break.

    Lowest sale ever for a JFK just occurred, a 69 for $1,088.., & 4 months to go – gotta love the hunt boys!

  99. VA Rich says

    Sith – you live in North Carolina, if those are your true roots, does an antebellum Southern put a price on heritage or family roots?

  100. Dave says

    @ VA Rich: September 5, 2014 at 8:31 pm

    Yeah, I have been thinking the same thing — suppose that is why he is called, “BUZZ?”

  101. Buzz Killington says

    @ Sith —

    Thinking about if the U.S. becomes a conquered nation with valueless currency, will the conquering nation let us citizens keep our valuables?

    And I thought I was a buzz kill!

  102. Clark says

    Thanks, VaRich.

    Buzz–Valid points, but that’s what a thoughtful estate plan and a few trusts are for…they make administration of your wishes effortless for beneficiaries, while carrying out your intentions.

  103. Buzz Killington says

    @ Clark —

    And with all that being said, if it is within your means (and it sounds like it is), I think the FS series is definitely an interesting gamble. It is an unprecedentedly LONG series, unpopular when issued, has A LOT of gold weight, and very low mintages. With the rise of the global oligopoly (not likely to disappear any time too soon), this might be a set that you could find a VERY wealthy buyer for. There are not a lot of sets out there for sure.

    I can’t afford to gamble on it, but I am definitely pulling for this set. In 100 years, people who know about this set are going to think “I can’t believe they actually made something like this!” Like some other poster said, it could very well be in 25 years, people will say to us “You had the chance to buy Lou Hoover and you passed it up?”

    So in that way, I am beginning to make peace with my decision to stay on the sidelines of the FS series early.

  104. jeff says

    I disagree that the FS coin will have any real value other than gold content. My presumption is that price discovery is when items are bought and sold if coins like these do not trade then where is the price discovery come from?

  105. Louis says

    I think Buzz K. and John in CT are right. Invest in stocks, and have fun with coins. I don’t care how low the FS mintages are, there is no demand for them and there will never be much demand for them. Apart from a few better dates, they are all worth bullion. I learned this the hard way and wish I never started buying them. Dealers don’t want ’em, and auction buyers could care less. You are kidding yourself if you think otherwise. Even 70’s sell for melt. Study the auction results.

    I am not up on the latest blog posts, but it was reported today no JFK silvers in Baltimore. Sorry, VA Rich! I know you were planning to camp out and make a party of it. But hey, have you spent time in baltimore? You can get into plenty of trouble there even without coins! Ay caramba!

  106. oldfolkie says

    I collected both versions for the first 4 years and gave up on the Uncs when gold got so high. Gave up on the proofs when they practically all came out at once. I wish I had the money to have kept it going. I’ll always have the subset but the rest may move sooner than later. I’ve always thought when Jackie comes out, and the whole world finally knows about this set it will start it’s upward move. Never understood the haters, or the childish that called them hags. Those of you that kept it going and will finish it are going to have one beautiful, rare set of coins. Congrats to you! I’m jealous.

  107. Buzz Killington says

    @ Louis —

    I haven’t really looked at the auction results lately, but if it is true you can get most FS dates for melt (around $650 as I type), that seems to be an interesting way to accumulate gold.

    I remember the phenomenon with the 1995-96 Olympic coins. You could buy the set of 32 under issue price at one time. Now you can’t get it with $6,000. And the market has to be limited by the number of people who are going to want to sink that much into basically boring-looking coins like those Olympic designs.

    The market is much more limited for a set of FS golds, at least at today’s gold prices. If gold were $500/oz., and FS coins were selling for melt, I would be very tempted. Hey, it could happen…

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rip_Van_Winkle_Caper

  108. Bob R says

    @Clark, no one person will ever know the future of anything, be it governments, metals, aviation, electronics, and life.
    My grandfather was a banker starting in the very turn of the 20th century. His idea was buying and owning farm land and real estate. He had access to nearly every gold and silver coin at the bank, but was not interested and never saved a single one. Farmland and oil grounds was the only investment he cared about during the early dust bowl days here in Kansas.
    I just wish he would have saved just a few of the many coins that passed through the bank, but he never saved a single one.
    I started my grandmother collecting coins in the early 60’s and she did well. I was lucky enough to fill my set of Mercury dimes she bought the 16D as a birthday gift for me one year. (probably around 1966)
    Your grand-kids will enjoy, after all it’s history, something to own, and who knows not the stock market crash of 2049. Time well tell.

  109. thePhelps says

    Buzz…the difference is the commemorative coins already have an establish collector base. So while the coins were not popular, there are a number of collectors of the commemorative series who will be looking for those coins to complete their set. Add to that the commemorative series is ongoing and will gain future collectors, and become even harder to finish.

    I’m not a fan of the FS series gold coins – but I think a completed set will be worth some money when the series is done. I just don’t think this particular series should have ever been done at the mint to begin with.

  110. Buzz Killington says

    @thePhelps —

    I don’t think you’ll find much disagreement that the FS was poorly conceived, and never should have been executed. No one was clamoring for gold renditions of the spouses of Presidents where even the Presidents are not well known. Moreover, it would also be hard to dispute that coinage in general was more attractive before the idea of using portraits of real people came into fashion.

    But the fact that it is such an odd series, one that never should have been done, could add to the appeal over the very long term. My interest in coins (as with a lot of things) waxes and wanes through the years, but I will be interested to see how the market for these FS coins plays out over the years.

  111. Louis says

    Rarity means nothing in the absence of demand. Some coins are sleepers, for sure, but serious collectors do not want these things. Believe me. I talk to dealers about it, and lost plenty of money on them. There is no market for these things, and that is not likely to change. Collectors who could give a crap about them are not going to wake up one day and say they want them. it just won’t happen and is not worth the risk. Buy stocks and buy coins for fun unless you have big bucks to invest in serious classic rarities, which people have always wanted

  112. Jerry Diekmann says

    I’m so glad that Congress dictated that the Marshals commemorative coin shall include the Marshals Service motto “Justice, Integrity, Service”. Very ironic, coming from Congress which doesn’t uphold any of those values.

  113. Sith says

    @VA Rich – Are you a notherner? If so how many Continental dollars do you own? Would you consider them to be a family heirloom? If you do I guess when you pass your heirlooms to your family you will laugh and tell them about how much your nice Enron or MCI stock certificates where worth so future generations can marvel how much of a fool you where. I once saw a women in Germany burning billion dollars Mark notes because it was cheaper to burn the money than to buy paper, would you call that burning her heritage?

    I asked the question from an investment bases so let me rephrase it. Would you love to pass down a nice confederate cent, or even a 1861-0 Seated Liberty half dollar piece with the “cracked Confederate obverse,” or a “gray back” to your family?

  114. Jerry Diekmann says

    Speaking of saving money for your grandchildren (I have five) – I don’t want to sound like some sort of crazy person, but if there was another Great Depression, or another Great Great Recession, what would prevent the federal government from appropriating part, most, or all of the cash, stocks, and bonds that people might have in banks and mutual funds? I would never have thought that I would ever think such a thing could be possible, but after seeing Congress in action the last 20 years, I have absolutely no trust in what they might do – 90% of the people in Congress are corrupt, dishonest, and evil stewards of the American economy. I am not being partisan – both parties are to blame for the sad state of affairs in this country. I don’t think I am alone, because nearly 90% of Americans polled think Congress has done, and is doing, a poor job in running the government. Don’t blame the President of either party – he does not make the laws – all he does is sign them or rarely veto them. Congress is the problem – the buck stops at the U.S. Capitol.

  115. Sith says

    @@VA Rich – I’m not sure if you question was rhetorical but I can’t be an Antebellum Southerner so their is no way for me to answer it. But I can say it is logical for someone to want pass a heirloom with value (gold\silver coin) over one that does not have much if any value (Greyback). The proposal was that someone would prefer stocks and bonds to coins, all I said was that would be preferred only if those stocks and bonds retain their value. But now I’m apparently corrected as from what I gather you would prefer to handover a “worthless” currency to your family than a gold coin.

  116. Buzz Killington says

    @ Jerry D —

    I’m not sure why Warren Buffet would care, since BH shares trades on the open market, and I don’t think he’s selling.

    Like a lot of people who have that kind of money, he is more focused on other things. I think he turns out to be a pretty decent person.

  117. Clark says

    Bob R–Well said. Your post reminded me of my own grandfather who didn’t have much money, but saved back in the ’60s to buy each of his three daughters a few acres of land in a part of Santa Fe County that was special to him, but very unpopular at the time. He had no background in real estate, but wanted his girls to have a piece of an area he enjoyed visiting. Well, those parcels of land are today worth 60x what he paid. The family still owns them and his memory continues. *Memo to self: Buy what you like, not what others say you should.

    Jerry D–I won’t count you out. Stick around here a while; I don’t always agree with you, but you have twice the life experiences I have and a lot I can learn from.

  118. Clark says

    Louis–I’ve always described my relentless pursuit of gold spouse coins as just a hobby, not as an investment.

    As far as dealers being uninterested in spouses is concerned, I share your observation, but note that almost every old fashioned dealer I’ve met has only been interested in the coins he wants to sell and almost always denigrates all others–especially modern U.S. coins. A couple weekends ago, I went to my local coin shop for a few supplies and mentioned my BHoF coins to the dealer. Thinking (erroneously) that I was there to sell him some of mine, he reflexively moved into “I have some and can’t get rid of them” mode. Of course, I called his bluff and offered him spot for his measly 8 silver BHoFs. He walked away.

  119. Jerry Diekmann says

    Buzz – you may be young, but that hasn’t stopped you from being wise. I don’t really think many grandchildren (even children, for that matter, care how hard their parents or grandparents worked to accumulate a complete coin collection of coins that never circulated in their lifetime, a big stock portfolio,, nice home, or anything else. Many younger people think only of instant gratification, entitlements, being a manager after a year or two on the job, lots of money without lots of hard work, ideas that run counter to history and reality. I have worked with people who actually thought (really!) that they were better than other people because they had a college education. I met people in the education field who considered themselves better and smarter as “certificated” than those who helped keep the schools running because they were only “classified”, like some sort of caste system. And many years ago I worked at a bank where your value as a person (really!) was measured by your signing authority, That’s a generation or more ago, and things have only gotten worse in terms of the expectations of many young people. They lack the toughness of those of us, and our parents, who lived through harder times. I know I will wind up leaving most of what I have accumulated to my kids and grandkids, but I sure would like to set aside a chunk of it as an endowment to help cure cancer (which killed my mother at age 45 – I was 12), or to help children struck by cancer and other diseases, which St. Jude Hospital has been doing for many years. Of course, there are many other excellent charities out there. It really boils down to this: I worked hard for my money, and I was prudent with it, and I took some risks to accumulate what I now have. What would be the better use of MY money – give it to the kids or grandkids who might or might not blow it, or to some agency that is trying to make this world a better place? These are tough decisions all of us are going to need to make some day. I am probably older than most of you, but we are all going to have to face that question some day, and I hope we all make the best decision we can. We can’t live forever, and we can’t expect our children or grandchildren to necessarily appreciate all the things we might have held dear in our lives, including our coin collection(s).

  120. Sith says

    @Jerry Diekmann – Nothing will stop them just look at Cyprus, and don’t think FDIC insurance will save you that guarantee is dependent on it being funded. So in a bad scenario the bank goes under, while your locked out of the account and proof, its gone, or the money replace with shares in a now worthless bank as part of a “buy in”. The first thing counties do when the market goes down is ban short selling, and lets not forget the “circuit breakers”which shuts down the market “to avoid a panic.”

    Now saying all that their is no need for them to confiscate your wealth, to quote Ben Bernanke “”The US government has a technology, called a printing press, that allows it to produce as many dollars as it wishes at essentially no cost.”

  121. Buzz Killington says

    @ Jerry D —

    I really appreciate your thoughtful comments. I like thinking about this kind of thing, too — it is really the fundamental question: what is the best use of our finite lifetime?

    I am not THAT young (somewhat older than Clark, as it turns out, if he is 35), but I am beginning to face my mortality, and it has occurred to me, too, that you can’t JUST live your life with the idea of accumulating money for your kids.

    I heard some interview with Anderson Cooper (putative heir to the Vanderbilt fortune) who was told at an early age he is not getting an inheritance, and is going to have to make his own way. I’m sure he had some help, but there is a vast difference between his career path, and let’s say Paris Hilton, who is the putative heir of a different fortune.

    I am concerned at least one of the same things you are — the sufficient public money isn’t going into medical research, and that “big pharma” is more interested in marketing than medical breakthroughs.

    I am also concerned about the environment and global warming. Gold and silver coins won’t do too much if it is too hot to grow food crops, and the midwestern aquifer is reportedly running dry. I also feel some guilt about getting new gold coins, when wildcatting miners all over the Third World are poisoning the earth with mercury because of the high price of gold.

    I am not suggesting there are easy answers — there aren’t. But that shouldn’t stop us from continuing to ask the questions.

  122. Buzz Killington says

    @ Sith —

    What I understood Jerry D to be saying — and I think correctly — is that you can’t measure “wealth” just by the money in your bank account.

    What is it worth, for example, to live in a world without cancer?

    Or to live in a world with plentiful, clean, and safe renewable energy?

    Coins are a fun distraction — who would read this blog is they disagreed with that? But there is no topic that is immune from trying to look at the bigger picture, too.

  123. Sith says

    @Buzz – I was responding to Jerry’s question “I don’t want to sound like some sort of crazy person, but if there was another Great Depression, or another Great Great Recession, what would prevent the federal government from appropriating part, most, or all of the cash, stocks, and bonds that people might have in banks and mutual funds?”

    The answer I gave is the same one I gave about confiscating gold, they don’t have a need to do so.

  124. Buzz Killington says

    @ Sith —

    There is really no question you are right on that score.

    Anyway, if the U.S. economy fails, there is no investment strategy that could make that okay.

  125. Jerry Diekmann says

    The FS coins will never be worth more than their bullion value. Like others have already said, the series was ill-conceived and totally unnecessary. Other than just a few of the first spouses, like Martha Washington, Dolley Madison, and Eleanor Roosevelt, what did they ever accomplish to warrant being commemorated on a coin? Jacqueline Kennedy is an exception, as she will always be tied to JFK and Camelot. To go further, the Presidents dollar series was also totally unnecessary. We already had the Sacagawea and Native Americans dollar coins, and they didn’t circulate, so what was going on at the Mint that they thought a Presidents series would somehow be accepted and used by the American public? Besides, most of the presidents aren’t worth commemorating anyway. Who would want coins of Tyler, Pierce, Buchanan, A. Johnson, Harding, or Nixon, who were not only failures as presidents, but failures as human beings? And why is Andrew Jackson still on the $20.00 bill, considering his support of slavery and the elimination of native Americans? Don’t they fall into the category of crimes against humanity? So he won a battle in new Orleans after the treaty to end the war was signed. Does that make him special? He needs to leave the scene, and the sooner the better.

  126. Sith says

    @Buzz – No question about it. On one hand we have people laughing at “stackers” because it is not an investment, or declaring it is a worthless barbaric relic that pays no interest. On the other hand we have “stackers”hording PMs so they can laugh at the people who are laughing at them now.

    I would advice the people who laugh at “stackers” to be careful as things look bleak, and as Jerry has mentioned their is no rule of law

    I would advice the “stackers” to read the book When Money Dies. Here is a nice quote from the book about laughing at people when they are down, because you retained your wealth by keeping gold.

    “The Jews had been badly treated in Hungary since the 1860s, and were not received socially for many years. Nine out of ten bore grudges, and when the opportunity of impressing the arrogant gentiles arrived at last, who was to blame them for taking it? When they made a success of inflation, they were hated. When they were ostentatious about it, they were hated even more. It may have been stupid of them, and of course the wiser Jews, especially the older ones, were greatly upset, and remonstrated with the younger, because they foresaw the antagonism their behavior would create.”

  127. Sith says

    @Jerry – No arguments from me but FYI Jefferson owned slaves , and “Andrew Jackson is often erroneously credited with initiating Indian Removal, because Congress passed the Indian Removal Act in 1830, during his presidency, and also because of his personal involvement in the forceful extermination and removal of many Eastern tribes. But Jackson was merely legalizing and implementing a plan laid out by Jefferson in a series of private letters that began in 1803, although Jefferson did not implement the plan during his own presidency.”

    The one thing that Jackson did do was destroy the Second Bank of the United States, and eliminated the national debt. Can you imagine someone now days not only taking out The Federal Reserve, and balancing the budget, but paying off the national debt

  128. Jerry Diekmann says

    Sith and Buzz – The government might not have a need to confiscate the wealth of its citizens if it can continue to get by with printing more money. But if that happens, and we saw a taste of it in the $475 billion the government printing presses produced as part of TARP (originally approved for $700 billion), then inflation will soon raise its ugly head.. Of course, printing money with no backup in precious metals, just the government’s “good faith”, whatever that is supposed to mean, is all that is keeping our economy going now. We certainly don’t want to wind up like Germany after WW I, or Hungary after WW II, or the rump Yugoslavia or some African countries have done in more recent times, where their trillion-whatever bills are worth no more than toilet paper. I just no longer trust Congress to act responsibly any more, or to care what happens to the people they are supposed to represent, the people who elected them to serve our needs and wants. If PROgress is going forward, then CONgress is just the opposite – it’s enshrined in their name. To put it bluntly, they are a bunch of evil stewards.

  129. gary says

    With regard to the future appreciation and value of coin collections, it is now very much in the hands of Generation X as they are the basis of the future of the U.S. economy. We boomers had it quite easy compared to what they are enduring: very high debt to stagnant earnings in the prime of their earning years. Some inflation might be a good thing for them to buy down debt with inflated dollars.

  130. thePhelps says

    @JerryD…I agree with much of what you say most of the time. Just stop going back writing history based on today’s standards. That is like many others who try to put today’s illegal immigration into context by claiming all Americans are immigrants. They want to ignore the fact that the US is an established country today with laws against illegal immigration and border jumping because of events that took place 400 years ago – events that have nothing to do with activities on our southern border.

  131. MarkH says

    Wow. Great Friday night discussions…not necessarily 100% about coins but certainly thoughtful.

    About the FS series-I have to say I’m in the “Not worth it” camp. The coins themselves aren’t particularly pleasing to begin with, and then they’re made of gold, which removes them from consideration for many, many collectors. When I started collecting gold was just so out of reach I never bothered with it, and now I mainly buy it for bullion purposes. And that FS series-well, one has to shell out for 4 ozs worth of gold a year to get it all….that’s a lot of money for moderns. If they are sold for a very small premium to spot I might consider a few, but that’s it. The AGEs and Buffaloes are much nicer to look at. Maybe if they had made the FS series in silver…

    All that said my hat’s off to a true collector who gets that whole series together. It sure will be rare to have something like that.

    One thing to be said about coins as investments (esp. PM coins)-you can keep them wherever you want to and no one can take them away without force. The same can not be said about financial instruments, be they stocks, bonds, or cash at the bank. And real estate isn’t portable either. When my family was forced out of Stettin post WWII my grandfather supposedly had one of the great coin collections of eastern Europe/Silesia/Prussia in his possession. He was able to save that and not much else besides his life and his family’s lives. He died shortly thereafter and the collection was sold and funded a house in early post-war west Germany. That story has lived with me for a long time. To those who believe PMs aren’t money all I can say is that when times are really tough they have always been acknowledged, accepted and used as such. Not the same can be said of fiat currencies or other paper/vaporware.

    MarkH

  132. Hawkster says

    Mark,
    Unless they are west coast guys, the late Friday night and early Saturday morning posters kept the discussion going until 3:10 am. What a group of impassioned commenters (and insomniacs)! Get some sleep guys, and enjoy the slate of college football today.

  133. cagcrisp says

    @Jerry Diekmann,
    “why wouldn’t Warren Buffet want everyone to invest in Berkshire Hathaway stock?”

    Berkshire Hathaway is an Active Investment. The S&P is a Passive Investment. Big difference. Very very few Active stock funds can Outperform the S&P over the LONG run because of Costs, Turnovers and Efficiencies. Personally I advise friends and family on stock portfolios and Indexing the S&P is the Advice I give Everyone.
    I personally have an Active stock portfolio because I do like to gamble.

    As long as Warren Buffet is alive Berkshire Hathaway is worth X, when he dies X will not be worth as much. His Original advise that was given out by Jon was for people that do not have the Time, Effort, or Money to properly study the various markets. Just invest in the S&P and walk away….

  134. Sith says

    @mark – It is but people keep making fun of people who are actually buying the coins described for various reasons. The discussions spin out from their, and their is no moderator.

  135. cagcrisp says

    The thing I liked about the Friday Night Commentary is that I got to Know more about various posters and ‘where they come from’.

    I have CNBC on from opening bell to closing bell. I Know the political party of most of the usual commentators and hosts. To me it’s very important to Know when someone Changes his Mind.

    Thus now I know where various posters are coming from and I will be Keen on Seeing if any Change their Minds on various subjects pertaining to PM’s, coins, etc.

    So….it is not All Lost on the Back and Forth between Posters…

  136. Sith says

    @cagcrisp – The value of Berkshire Hathaway after Warren Buffet’s death will depend if the replacement can use his money and influence to do the following Warren Buffet investment strategy:

    1. Buy stocks in a down and out company for pennies on the dollar
    2. Petition Congress for a bailout of that company for the good of the nation
    3. Sell the shares for a massive profit
    4. Rinse and repeat

  137. Hawkster says

    JON in CT,

    Last night’s marathon-like interchange among posters, coupled with the lengthy comments, might require your services to provide a Cliff Notes type synopsis to some of the readers of this Blog whose limited attention span does not allow them to grasp what was said in its entirety (myself included).

  138. Jon in CT says

    Bob R wrote on September 5, 2014 at 11:30 PM:

    I believe the FS will be the Edisel’s of the 50″s, IMO.

    Like the First Lady coins, the Edsel cars manufactured by Ford were considered homely and were unloved when originally offered for sale. But have you priced one lately? The original MSRP was $3,776 for this model:
    http://www.edsel.com/charts/s2/e58cit2c.jpg

    As with most collectibles, rarity and condition play major roles in determining current prices.

  139. stephen m says

    Any appreciation in the Fist Spouse coins will hinge on demand and increases in the value of gold, like a lot of the moderns. We will never really know because we won’t be here to see how things unfold. I think they will be a remarkable set and will command a premium in the distant future. I don’t see any PM’s going down in value in the future. Prices and value of anything over time go up not down, stock market included.

  140. Hawkster says

    Cagcrisp,
    Don’t expect a quick reply to your 9:06 am comment to Jerry D., as he will be sleeping in this morning in order to recuperate from pounding the keyboard until past 3:00 am last night.

  141. Arizona Billy says

    The four coin Liberty subset within the First Spouse coins issued are still my favorites thus far.

  142. Hawkster says

    AZ Billy,

    The four coin Liberty subset, because of the classic designs on their reverse, is probably the only thing that gives the FS series some semblance of redeeming value. But, the subset is still not “gotta have it” enough to make me run out and attempt to obtain these four pieces.

  143. Clark says

    Wouldn’t it be interesting if the very things that make First Spouse coins so repugnant to mainstream collectors today make it appealing to collectors tomorrow? It’s safe to say that white males dominate our hobby today. When I’m at coin shows locally and in neighboring states, I don’t see many women or people of color, let alone woman of color. Even here in minority-majority New Mexico, there are only two Hispanics and one woman at monthly coin club meetings among 75 regulars.

    As the country’s population rapidly transitions to a multicultural society where female clout continues to grow, which is absolutely happening, so too will support for efforts to honor women–even those as obscure as most presidential spouses. In this sense, the Mint’s First Spouse series could be the harbinger of the hobby’s future and may suggest the demographics of collectors who keep it going.

  144. Hawkster says

    Clark,

    I don’t think that one can assume that a potentially greater number of female collectors will translate into into a future higher interest or demand for the FS coins, or any other woman-related coins that may come down the Pike. Like their male couterparts, female collectors will seek out the coins that they want to collect, irregardless of the subject content.

  145. Small time collector says

    @Clark – good observation on who is collecting. It would be nice for congress to authorize coins that collectors want, rather than pc fundraisers and superfluous coins.

    re: ownership, takings and investing
    I have to say the best item to hold is property, buying now is probably the best investment a person can make toward their security and to pass on. The story of the pre-war holdings being converted to post war property is a great example. Any material holding can be liquidated to obtain things needed, or wanted.
    It’s important to remember that security (wealth) needs to be able to be moved, the more concentrated the holding with the most appeal will always carry highest value. I think gold rightfully holds the greatest attraction to investments after property. In it’s various forms (rare coins, bars, commems) the bottom line in a dire situation it’s all worth melt. Key dates, rarities, sets may all become unimportant.
    Given all that, property will continue to be and will always be needed to reside, farm, build or manufacture.

  146. says

    Clark, Looking back thousands of years at leadership rolls, women have been anything but over looked, they have always played a major roll in nation building. I’m afraid their struggles to emerge from the so called “shadows” of society and take a roll are going to continue as has always been, probably due to their meek nature. The history of women will never be a straight line story because of their diverse roll in humanity. And, the fact that white males may take market share in the coin collecting community may only suggest a need within white males for selfish futility.

    Now don’t get too angry with me, I’m only thinking out loud. Notice I used “may” a few times.

  147. Clark says

    The “meek nature” of women? Wow, Dusty.

    Population trends the rise of women’s political and financial influence are what they are and we can each draw our own conclusions from them. The future sustainability of this hobby depends on, as has so often been said here, demand. It may be that it is a only hobby for white males, but it is also possible that products white males find appealing don’t attract females or people of color.

    I’m simply pointing out that current low demand for First Spouse coins may be related to the current demographics of collectors, many of whom often characterize the series as a grand gesture of political correctness. It is quite possible that the series was a deliberate effort to reach a broader, more inclusive market. Based on current demand for spouse coins, I wouldn’t call it a successful effort, but the times they are a changing.

  148. Hawkster says

    Dusty,
    With all due respect, I think you may have wanted to use the word “role” instead of “roll”.

  149. VA Bob says

    Late to the party, but wanted to comment on one of Buzz’s concerns, global warming, now referred to as ” climate change”, soon to be referred to as “climate disruption”. The planets climate has been changing for 4 billion years. There has been periods of time when Carbon Dioxide (CO2) has been much higher than it is now, the earth was much greener then. I have a problem with the government and other organizations labeling a gas that plants, and in turn humans, require to survive as a pollutant. I’m all for reducing real pollutants such as heavy metals and such.

    That said, if one can get financially involved with this scheme, the financial payoff will be significant. People that can’t tell you what the weather will be the day after tomorrow want to tell you what it will be 100 years from now. Good so far, as we won’t be here to refute it. Now they sell you carbon credits, which like printing money, they can make as many as they want, charge what they want, because the government says you need it. It works great as there is no way to prove the money they throw at it will ever make the climate change (what is the idea climate anyway?)The taxpayer, as usual, really foots the bill, as those costs are passed on to them. For the investor, literally money from thin air. Get into this money generating machine and your heirs will have no money problems.

  150. Dave says

    @ Dustyroads: September 6, 2014 at 12:21 pm

    Hmmm, maybe that is why Sharks are 8 times more likely to attack men than women? “Meek nature”! Not any of the women I work with — I think their is a conspiracy with the Sharks!

    No worries on “. . . only thinking out loud.” Just look at “Buzzes” posts.

    LOL! 😉

  151. Hawkster says

    The cost a complete FS set precludes the majority of collectors from obtaining it, now and in the future, male or female. Period.

  152. Dave says

    Hey does anyone know if the “Mints” 7 day return policy allow for any leeway? I am returning some items about 2 days past this time frame.

  153. VA Bob says

    Hawkster – That’s the rub, you don’t need the majority wanting it, just the one with more money than they know what to do with. The “1st sold” JFK gold label comes to mind ($100K). There will always be some that have to have something others can’t have.

    As mentioned concerning the Ford Edsel that many didn’t want. Who wouldn’t want one in pristine condition today? It’s easy to forget the first years FS (proof and UNC) all sold over 30K, over 10K for the second, and near that (except Julia Tyler) the third year. Rising gold prices are what really did this series in, as collectors were confronted with what the high cost of completion would be. Most collectors won’t go back to a series once interrupted even if costs com down. Dealers don’t like them because their is no money in it for them currently, that’s all. The dedicated collectors mostly get them right from the Mint, leaving the secondary market with little to make money on. It’s hard to tell what will happen until the series is over. People tend to get nostalgic for things they had the opportunity to buy and passed on, like the Edsel. Time will tell.

  154. Clark says

    Hawkster–Does your reasoning also apply to collectors of gold eagles, gold buffaloes, gold commems, etc. that predate the First Spouse series which began in 2007? How is it that collectors, many on this board, can afford other gold moderns, but not First Spouses, period? I could agree that many choose not to collect one gold series or another, but it’s not an affordability issue for those who collect modern gold coins.

  155. says

    Hawkster, Roll or role, it’s the same thing. It’s the diversity in women roles which I was referring to.
    Ok, so some woman should not be referred to as meek, I think it depends on their position.
    The truth is, women will always bare the children, and the men will always do the heavy work. Women will never be happy and feel second class, and men will try their best to please them.
    And that is why we don’t like women, other than an icon like Lady Liberty on our coins looking anything other than physically attractive.

  156. VA Bob says

    Dave if it’s gold or was shipped by expedited service (tracking number, they know exactly when it was delivered) I’d say no. If it came by USPS you might get away with it. Problem is today is Saturday, so you’d have to get it in today to the post office, otherwise it will be postmarked Monday.

  157. cagcrisp says

    @Dustyroads, “men will always do the heavy work”

    I suggest you Don’t ever run for Political office…

  158. Hawkster says

    Clark,
    In answer to your question, no my “reasoning” does not apply to the other gold issues you mentioned.

  159. VA Bob says

    Jeff – Only so many Mint products to discuss. Besides I’m sure Michael like to take his weekends off too. Luckily it’s a big internet, with plenty of topics to suit most tastes.:)

  160. Hawkster says

    Jeff,

    Are you implying that all us posters have diarrhea of the keyboard? If so, you’re probably right.

  161. mgm says

    I got my Colorado Great Sand Dunes 5 oz bullion coin from APMEX just moments ago. I wouldn’t have purchased one if I wasn’t collecting the series. I don’t like the design and I’m worried about next years, they’re ugly… I like the way APMEX is inclosing them now. Airtite inside a sealed see-through plastic bag.

  162. Jon in CT says

    Dustyroads wrote on September 6, 2014 at 2:18 PM:

    Hawkster, Roll or role, it’s the same thing. It’s the diversity in women roles which I was referring to.
    Ok, so some woman should not be referred to as meek, I think it depends on their position.
    The truth is, women will always bare the children, …

    So, a woman’s position should usually be on her back, unless she’s one of the few women who isn’t meek? And who care’s whether a woman removes her children’s clothes? It’s not as if the father couldn’t do the same.

  163. Hawkster says

    Hey Dusty,
    Now that your back is up against the wall, with all the darts being thrown, will this force a retreat on your part? Or, at the very least, a softening of your position? We’re anxiously awaiting the direction your comments will take.

  164. simon says

    He’ll dust off the darts, roll up a smoke, and puff away the pricks.

    Anyone buying the 2014 Unc Dollar Set – I really look forward to
    this offering every year.

  165. VaBeachSteve says

    Only 6 more FS coins to go …. I’m not sure what will make me happier …. Having a complete set or not having to read the comments of the “Grumpy ‘ol men” on this blog concerning this series.

  166. thePhelps says

    Steve..I’d guess it will be equal portions of both. Then again, I’ll be happy not to have to comment on them anymore as well. 🙂

  167. GoldFishin says

    @VaBeachSteve- Glass half full or glass half empty? Last night it was half empty, today it is still half empty, but added a little red food coloring to it> 😉 It was interesting reading and like Cagcrisp said, I did learn a lot more about a few posters than I already knew, but I also thought about selling my collection today and buying a monster truck with it, so at least my son would appreciate that if I kicked the bucket! 🙂

    Just kidding people….I really did enjoy your insight and life experiences. I was enjoying it so much I decided to just read the posts and stay out of it. The equivalent of shutting up and listening, like I do when my wife wants to vent. It always makes her feel better.
    Well, not always. 😉

  168. Small time collector says

    Seems to me that this discussion would not exist if legislation did not require certain people or events be included in the design of planned mintage’s. To require certain designs means other designs will not be used. Just how did special interests become a design criteria. Special seldom equates to mass appeal.
    Let’s get back to basics of Liberty, United States, and a Date.

  169. Small time collector says

    It seems to me that this discussion would not exist if legislation did not require certain people or events be included in the design of planned mintage’s. To require certain designs means other designs will not be used. Just how did special interests become a design criteria. Special seldom equates to mass appeal.
    Let’s get back to basics of Liberty, United States, and a Date.

  170. says

    Clark-regarding the collecting of modern golds….let’s say I finally had the money to purchase gold moderns at some point in the last 20 years. I would’ve bought AGEs if I were buying American coins. Now I’m partial to proofs, but let’s just say I really splurged and bought not only proofs but uncs as well. I’m not even talking whole sets, just the 1oz coins.

    And then come the commems on a regular basis. To buy or not to buy?

    And then these FS coins. Since you already know how many there’ll be and how many you’ll need to buy every year for a complete set (8 coins) yikes! How can I afford all that?

    If I have pockets deep enough to spend that kind of coin for all those coins might I not instead buy real rarities?

    Unless you’re justifying collecting coins under the guise of bullion purchases (as I sometimes do to preserve the household peace) or you’re just into collecting a set that will be truly (and I mean truly) rare in the future for a lot of bucks up front you won’t be purchasing those FS coins.

    I think they are by and large ugly but I also believe that in 30 years or so they will be much more valuable than other gold coins issued by the mint today. I base this on the numbers minted and nothing else.

    MarkH

  171. GoldFishin says

    @STC- Absolutely…I second that emotion!! And yes Jon…I meant to say emotion.

    Small Time- I really like how you think and agree with you about 99.99% of the time, with the exception of giving us a hard time about returning sub par coins. Glad you are a regular poster.

  172. GoldFishin says

    OT- there are now more JFK gold auction style listings on Ebay for 69 graded coins(35) than 70 graded coins(33), non-ANA coins. If anyone is looking to pick up a cheap 69, the next couple days may be the time. That didn’t sound exactly right, did it? 😉

    @Hawkster – that was a smirky face.

  173. VA Bob says

    MarkH – Modern gold commem’s are really only a good if you like the subject matter. The history of modern gold commems’s doesn’t bode well (with a very few exceptions) from an appreciation stand point. If it weren’t for the dramatic climb of gold which began almost 10 years ago, many would not even be going for more than issue price. Much better to stack bullion, at the bullion price. Of course if you believe gold will go higher at some point, there are worse things you could have collected over the years. Beanie Babies, anyone?

  174. MarkH says

    VABob-
    I have stacked an amount of “bullion” that is in the 25% range of my liquid assets. A collector at heart, my better half believes that the collecting part of me is not the equivalent of the investor part. The investor part is why I’m retired. The investor part of me is why I stick with moderns and do not go for the “throat” and buy really rare coins that could be a potential windfall. Boy, that’s hard territory. Almost a job. And not how I want to spend my time anymore, so it’s moderns and/or bullion for me now when it comes to coins.

    As CAG has said before, there is money to be made in the stock market. Between that place and real estate I’m good to go. The difference between coins-be they bullion or numismatics-and stocks or bonds, is liquidity and the lack of that pesky little “collector” thingy component. In other words most people don’t get attached to stocks they way they would to coins as collectibles. This makes stocks, in the perception of someone viewing your moves from a highly interested outside perspective, much more attractive…”if he’s buying a stock, at least his only motive is profit”…(I will not comment further here on the numerous admonitions I have read to not “fall in love with your stock”). With coins, however, I have actually had to sell a few just to demonstrate my ability to part with them, as I do with my equities, on a regular basis.

    So I am constantly torn between my desire to build a cool collection and the ability to demonstrate said collection’s investment potential. Ease of resale is definitely a factor…coins are hard. Stocks, easy.

    So I’ve settled on lots of silver eagle bullion, gold eagle bullion, and some pre-1907 au55 type stuff that sells for a small premium to spot. Then I mix in some proof modern commems to scratch that itch and develop a complete set. (Aside from HOF, I now do have a complete silver $1 commem modern set).

    MarkH

  175. says

    Oh, I don’t mind the pricks, I deserve them, but I think I would be crazy at this point to think out loud any further about the opposite sex. Maybe just one more, Women are the reason we are here, therefore they deserve the best we can give them, that’s why I like many of you guys can say that you would not think twice about giving your life in exchange for your wife’s, I know I wouldn’t.
    I honestly think that coins depicting Presidents wives should sell much better, but apparently it’s a much more specialized market for most to be involved in. I owned a Dolly Madison silver dollar set once, but ultimately decided to sell it. It struck me as a little odd that coin collectors don’t seem very interested in coins that are really beautiful such as this one. I guess it was then that I decided coin collectors really don’t want these types of coins. On the other hand, a complete set of FS gold coin is an amazing task, and I highly doubt an owner will ever be sorry about buying them.

  176. Small time collector says

    @GF – thank you, I rather enjoy this blog. reading about the guys playing the return game is really what got me posting here. Hey, I returned a k15 (for exchange due to a flaw) yet still don’t like the thought of returns based on the change of price of products or high sales. THats fodder for other discussions.
    I don’t know how long this blog has been going, but I think I first viewed the pages here in ‘o5-‘o6, yet it may have been some other similar site. I don’t believe I posted prior to last month. To be honest, I am generally impressed with the members here and the ability to have meaningful discussions from a wide source of viewpoints. I do, and expect others, to rebel if words are minced or twisted. I feel there are civil ways to share thoughts and even to disagree.
    I’m glad I found the site and plan to participate. SOmetimes I get busy with projects or work on our ranchette. Coins will always attract

  177. Pool Shark says

    Mark:
    That’s why I started stacking the 5-ounce Atb bullion. If I’m going to be buying bullion anyway; might as well build a collection at roughly the same cost as Silver Eagles. Some of the rarer issues (i.e., the 2012’s and even the recent Mount Rushmore ) are already commanding big numismatic premiums over melt. Someday, I suspect a complete set of all 56 bullion Atb’s will sell for far more than an equal number of ounces of ASE’s.

  178. Small time collector says

    @Pool Shark and others – re: the atb’s and series type coins large and small. As a small time collector I have not attempted to buy into a series, rather I’ve been buying what appeals and I can afford. I have a rather random assortment with everything since the late 80’s being 90% silver or bullion proofs.
    Do these series result in a quandary when selling? Does one find a buyer for a complete collection (potentially discounting the individual components), or is it pieced out with key components getting a higher premium.
    I think I would find it hard to piece out a complete series and difficult to find a buyer for the same. Smaller sets and series seem doable.

  179. Bob R says

    My suggestion for the 2016 walking, standing, and mercury ideals. I am not a big fan of producing a gold coin with a face denomination value of just chump change. Mint the gold but make the half be 50 dollars, quarter be 25 dollars, and the dime be 10 dollars. Also produce the coins in silver with their standard denomination. And last but not least, do not put a stupid dual date 1916-2016, just date them 2016. Just my thoughts.

  180. Jon in CT says

    Bob R wrote on SEPTEMBER 6, 2014 at 9:40 PM:

    I am not a big fan of producing a gold coin with a face denomination value of just chump change. Mint the gold but make the half be 50 dollars, quarter be 25 dollars, and the dime be 10 dollars.

    The US statutory exchange rate for gold is still $42 2/9 per fine troy ounce of gold, so …

  181. VA Bob says

    STC – When the time comes it might be worth it to rent a table (preferable with a glass case top) at a medium sized coin show. Have an idea what you want to price everything at before the show. The good stuff would probably go quick. The average stuff, you could probably make a little over issue or at least break even, with inflation taken into account. This would probably be cheaper in the long run over eBay, with their fee’s, taking a piece of each sale.

  182. Bernie in Florida says

    Hey guy’s, I was hearing that the Mint may continue the FS coin series as First Spouses pass away. In special editions, as needed, by the passing of a Presidents Spouse. My conundrum is, if Hillary Clinton becomes President. Will they make a FS coin will “Bill” on it? 🙂

  183. Buzz Killington says

    @ VA Bob —

    I haven’t been to a coin show in awhile, but my impression back then was you would have a hard time getting rid of a collection of moderns. No one is looking to buy a Statue of Liberty or Constitution set.

    The best thing about ebay is, if you list the stuff for the going price, someone will buy it. Unfortunately, that’s probably worth the 13% fee for a lot of the pieces.

    I think I’m going to have wait 30-40 more years, for the next big upswing in PM prices.

  184. VA Bob says

    Buzz – Sure a Statue of Liberty might net you melt (which their are plenty of buyers for spot silver). Fortunately silver has increased since then and that may be the best one can do with those. I bought a proof and unc 1982 GW .50 cent commems on the secondary market in the late 80’s for $6 and some change. Thought I’d never recover the cost, but spot has passed that buy price by a couple of bucks. They will never IMO be worth more than their silver content (unless 100’s of thousands get melted), but it shows there may be hope for some dogs out there.

    One nice gold (2008 Buff, etc.) could, for what the eBay fees for selling the coin, pay for a table at a medium sized show. Plus you can potentially sell much more than one coin. No returns or buyers trying to scam to worry about. Might not get the quantity of buyers with more money than brains, as one would on ebay, but it’s just an option for liquidating a number of coins at one sitting.

    Yeah, we all hope the prices are up when we go to sell.

  185. Small time collector says

    @VA Bob – excellent advice on a table. just so you know, I don’t have any sets or substantial parts of a series. I was asking, as a general inquiry, because I’m trying to make my mind up on how to best increase coin collecting since completing our move to new home and intentional delayed (2.5 yr) sale of previous home. It appears the timing may be good with PM’s needing to additionally fall 10%-15% to historic trend position. fwiw, I think when gold hits that projected trend line we will see the fed start inching int. rates up.

  186. Small time collector says

    @Dave – a upswing in 3-4 yrs?
    I can see silver in that window gold likely not.
    EXCEPT, should another big terrorist happening, then all bets are off the board.

  187. Hawkster says

    The only coin sets that I have felt compelled to complete are the State Quarters and the ATB quarters (silver). In regard to commemoratives, I’ve bought some but passed on most–always silver, no gold. The majority of commemorative just don’t do that well on the secondary market.
    In regard to the AGE’s and gold buffaloes, I am content to have one proof and one uncirculated of each. I have never felt the necessity of getting a complete run of dates for either of the gold issues.

    Clark, I hope this further answers the question you posed to me.

  188. cagcrisp says

    From another blog referring to the Gold Kennedy “They are an odd size and compared to the AGE and Buffalo coins, they are not legal tender. ”

    Dang….What was I thinking?….Spending $1,240.00 for a coin that I could not use to pay off my $.50 debt….Dang….

    That’s a Game Changer…..I bet that Guy that spent $100k didn’t know that….Wonder if they will give him his money back?….

  189. VA Bob says

    Cag – I just want to know where that guy goes shopping so I can buy , from the cashier, the gold buffalos he’s spending to pay for his stuff.

    All Mint collector coins are legal tender, but who would spend them as such. Even the proof/unc clad is worth more than face, though these sometimes get spent when kids break open their coin gifts or rob daddy’s collection.

  190. VA Bob says

    BTW – If the Mint does make the 1916 Walker in gold, in 2016, 3/4 oz. won’t be an unusual size any more.

  191. Jerry Diekmann says

    Clark – if you like the FS gold coins and have the mweans to purchase them, and if you like the series and the art work, then by all means collect them. There is really no right or wrong in coin collecting, unless you pay way too much for a coin or buy a counterfeit coin. It’s totally up to you what you want to collect. I guess Hi Lo Silver, who used to post on this website, decided to switch to sea shells or some other collectible, according to what some other posters have said. For me, I can’t afford the FS series and the coins don’t represent people who were really that important in the history of this country, with the exception of Eleanor Roosevelt. Some of the FS were pretty women, some were plain, and some were on the ugly side. If I had the money for gold, I would probaby opt for the gold Eagles that have less premium, or if I wanted an example of a numismatic gold coin, I would go for the St.Gaudens eagles or double eagles because of their unsurpassed beauty and craftsmanship. They also represent the very last – forever – of any gold coins ever issued by the US Mint for circulation, and represent a time gone by which will never return. But the final decision rests with the collector, and that’s YOU.

  192. Buzz Killington says

    Instead of doing these gold one-offs, I would rather see the ASE design change to the Standing Liberty Quarter in 2016, and make that Palladium coin with the Mercury head as a one-off, not a regular bullion issue.

    I don’t like how they fall into these ruts (commemorating seemingly odd anniversaries with giant ASE sets), and would rather see something more outside the box.

    That is IF they have to do something new. The 100th anniversary of 1916, when a lot of coinage changes took place, is a good year to give us something different, and then give it a rest for awhile, and work on the regular 2 commems per year.

  193. Clark says

    Hawkster–Thanks for your response. I had asked you if the logic of your statement that, “The cost of a complete FS set precludes the majority of collectors from obtaining it, now and in the future, male or female. Period.” also applies to other gold moderns. You replied that it does not and that you collect one 1oz proof and unc version of Gold Eagles and Gold Buffaloes. If my memory is correct, the gold eagle series started in seventeen years ago 1986 and the gold buffalo series nine years ago in 2006.

    If I understand you right, then you’ve collected 34 (17 yrs x 2 oz) Gold Eagles and 18 (9 yrs x 2 oz) Gold Buffaloes since each program began worth roughly $43K and $23K in spot value, respectively. Because the spot value of my complete gold First Spouse collection is worth about the same as your complete collection of gold eagles, I’m wondering why you think that gold spouses are less affordable than Gold Eagles and Gold Buffaloes to the majority of collectors?

  194. MarkH says

    Well AAN, right now, is auctioning a set of 2014 clad Kennedy’s. Bid is at a laughable $1000. Yes, for that 9.95 set. Oh, they”re first day issue and graded sp68 by ngc. But $1000? And the auctioneer is claiming they’re worth $250,000!!!

  195. Clark says

    Jerry D–We all collect what we collect for our own reasons. I’m glad you respect my collection choices and I certainly respect yours. It would be nice if that sentiment were more widely shared here.

    I’ve been reading MNB and following comments for over seven years now and I’ve noticed in recent years a growing tendency of some folks to denigrate the collection choices of others, insinuating that their collections (and by implication, that they) are somehow superior. It’s a curious way for collectors to treat each other. As a faithful collector of all First Spouse coins, I guess I invite negative comments because the series is unpopular. In fact, I collect them precisely because they are unpopular and controversial and have said so numerous times. Still, it makes no sense to get upset at others who simply have different tastes and priorities.

  196. gary says

    @Buzz… I think that the Mint will continue to churn out “special” coins as in the anniversary sets. All they need to do is a mix of mint marks and proof, reverse proof, uncirculated, and now special enhanced finishes and put em in a box and they will sell, and sell quite well as long as collectors consider them must haves.

  197. HarryB says

    @Clark: You are not alone collecting the FS series, I to have been collecting the FS series since the beginning, I have them all in NGC 70, and the first 17 issues in OGP as well. I have enjoyed these threads commenting on the series here for the last 4 years, which criticize the series on artistic or popularity prospectives, I never consider the comments personally directed at my choices, rather I look at these comments as the commenters personal choices in collecting. I also collect Modern Gold Commemoratives, have them all in NGC 70 as well. I also have all the gold Buffalos in OGP and all the AGE burnished in OGP. Enjoy your FS collection, you are not alone! Harry

  198. Olde Sailor Bill says

    I agree with Harry B & Clark comments. I am a Spouse
    Collector too and real enjoy them,

  199. Hawkster says

    Clark,
    You misunderstood me in regard to the gold issues. I have exactly four modern gold pieces: AGE proof and unc., proof buffalo, and UHR Gold Eagle. As I mentioned in my comment, I do not feel the need to get a complete run of dates for the gold eagles and buffaloes. Rather, I am content to pursue a type set of the 1oz. AGE’s and buffaloes. So no, I do not have anywhere near the thousands of dollars tied up in these coins that you thought I had.

  200. Clark says

    HarryB & Olde Sailor Bill–Thanks for coming forward. As one of the most outspoken and controversial of all first spouses, Eleanor Roosevelt would be pleased that the MNB announcement of her coin became a forum for a thorough discussion of the controversial series.

    BTW, I too collect AGEs, Buffaloes and gold commems and enjoy them all.

  201. Pittsburgh P says

    The spouse series is dumb & so is anyone who collects them !!! 😉

    JK Clark… I figured you would have known that but thought It better be stated just in case for everyone else.
    I’m with Jerry – more power to ya if you can collect the whole series! I never got into them but do think they will be a sought after set in the future for those who can afford them. How far in the future who knows…

    I think most collectors respect others & what they choose to collect. There are so many options out there – Ancient, US, World, Modern… – it is impossible to collect everything & everyone’s collection and wants are different. If someone wants to belittle what you choose to collect and act “superior” in some way they’re not worth my, or your time imo…

  202. Hawkster says

    Clark,

    Because you are into the FS series for the complete run, I think that you are taking criticism of these coins too personally. I don’t believe that any posters have directed negative comments toward the collectors who made the choice to see the series through. Again, we all collect what appeals to each of us.

  203. thePhelps says

    John Stoner, 42, dug up a 1652 silver threepenny coin on Aug. 31…

    I guess I need to collect older coins these days…

    In 2012, a silver Colonial Massachusetts coin from 1652 that was found in a potato field was auctioned for $430,000. Stoner’s coin could bring in $1.7 million, according to the Mail.

  204. Clark says

    PittsP–LOL and thanks.

    Hawkster–Perhaps you’re right…it’s been a long, long thread : )

    With over 240 comments here and the way Michael indexes topics, his “First Spouse Gold Coins” category recorded a lively, spirited discussion from all sides for future review. And with that, I too am ready for a new topic.

  205. VA Bob says

    I’ll pick on some of the first spouse coins, but never the collectors. It will be impressive when complete. Besides I believe I have a Eunice Shriver around her some where, and that’s one ugly coin.

  206. jeff says

    Tomorrows the release of the 2014 Annual Uncirculated Dollar Set any idears . I really like the set but would like to see different packaging or a reverse mint state silver eagle instead of the uncirculated silver eagle ..

  207. VA Bob says

    Jeff I’d like to see a reverse mint state ASE too, that would surely be something, since all MS’s are a matte like finish. 😉

    I can’t get excited about the dollar set, since I all ready have them all, MS and PF, but I understand some label chasers believe they are special and buy/sell for a premium on the secondary market. I say to them, go for it and good luck.

  208. Naga says

    OT question from a newbie for those who buy Royal mint coins. Excuse my ignorance, but why is there such a difference between what the Royal Mint charges for a 1 oz. 2014 Silver BU Britiannia and what APMEX or similar charge? Are the coins that the bullion dealers sell different (Business Strikes vs. BU?)

  209. eddie says

    Anyone know when the Mint is going to let us see the packaging for the 4 coin silver Kennedy half sets?
    Why is it being kept so secretive?
    You know know it has to be in a wooden box like the gold coin and not the cardboard holder they had at the show.

  210. says

    Eddie…it will not be a wwod box, but a “embossed leatherette type folder.

    From the Mint’s website:
    50th Anniversary Kennedy Half-Dollar Silver Coin Collection (product code K13) – $99.95
    The set is composed of four coins-one from each of the United States Mint’s production facilities-struck in 90 percent silver in four finishes:

    One reverse proof coin from the United States Mint at West Point
    One proof coin from the United States Mint at Philadelphia
    One enhanced uncirculated coin from the United States Mint at San Francisco, and
    One uncirculated coin from the United States Mint at Denver.
    Each coin features the 1964 Kennedy half-dollar coin design, but is inscribed with the year 2014. The encapsulated coins are secured in coin wells within an embossed leatherette-type folder that includes the same image of John F. Kennedy that appears on the coins in this set, with patriotic imagery of stars and stripes. The removable capsules allow visibility of both sides of the coins, which are housed on packaging that can be displayed as a trifold or stored and protected by an outer sleeve. The United States Mint logo is on the front of the folder, and the Department of the Treasury seal is on the back. A booklet with information and images about the design of the 1964 Kennedy half-dollar coin and a certificate of authenticity accompany each set.

    http://www.usmint.gov/pressroom/?action=press_release&id=1592

  211. stephen m says

    For the collectors that are all in for the FS proof and ms coins I’m rooting for lower gold prices, and I admire those few collectors.

  212. J JONAH JAMESON says

    XA5 2013 ANNUAL $1 UNC SET update:

    Order Date:08/05/2014 at 10:37 AM

    Order Status: Your order request is in process.
    2013 ANNUAL $1 UNC SET In stock and reserved
    cancel box gone

    An 8/20/2014 is still backordered. Expected to ship on 09/23/2014.

  213. eddie says

    @Steve
    Well that just sucks! The Mint should have done something similar to the 5 coin ASE set . It would have looked a heck of a lot better. I guess the Mint is trying to make as much money as they can from these Kennedy sets.

  214. VA Rich says

    K15 –
    8/10/2014 – 62,341
    8/17/2014 – 63,521 +1,180
    8/25/2014 – 63,388 (133)
    8/31/2014 – 64,305 +917
    9/7/2014 – 63,927 (378)
    1,586 sold over past 4 weeks;
    396 weekly average;
    396 x 15 weeks + 63,927 = 69.8k

  215. eddie says

    I have never really understood the logical behind the United States Mint Annual Uncirculated Dollar Coin Set. Why do they just put the P Presidential coins and no D’s and a D Native Amer. coin and no P?
    Can someone explain the idea behind this set?

  216. Pittsburgh P says

    Naga I am pretty sure they are the same coin… If you buy rolls from the Royal Mint they are much cheaper. I guess they charge about double if you just want one or two coins of the BU version. The reason I say this is that in the past the mint didn’t sell the bullion version in singles only rolls. If you only wanted a few its cheaper to buy off a dealer. The proofs are much cheaper from the mint though. For instance APMEX is charging 699$ wire or check for the 5 oz proof but the RM is around 550$ shipped. I’m sure you know but the bullion & proof versions are different designs unlike the ASE where the only difference is finish and a mint mark.

    If someone knows somthing different please correct me…

  217. J JONAH JAMESON says

    @ eddie

    Annual Unc Dollar Set is mostly gifting, but after the single burnished W silver eagle goes off sale, it is another way to pick one up.

    Mint’s spreadsheet now shows 43.850 XA5 + 178,941 single burnished W silver eagle = 222,761 burnished W silver eagle so far.

    Compare that to the previos low in 2012 of 28,368 XA5 + 202,504 single burnished W silver eagle or 226,120.

  218. cagcrisp says

    Mint BHOF excel spreadsheet update for 09/07/14 (change from 08/31/14 spreadsheet):

    Gold proof BHOF 32,840 (down 5)
    Gold unc. 18,443 (down 3)
    Silver proof 268,060 (down 7)
    Silver unc. 132,061 (down 13)
    Clad proof 211,474 (up 1,787)
    Clad unc. 131,844 (up 513)
    Young Collector 20,554 (up 1,368)

    Gold BHOF oversold 1,283
    Silver BHOF oversold 121

  219. cagcrisp says

    Mint Kennedy excel spreadsheet update for 09/07/14 (change from 08/31/14 spreadsheet):

    2014 KENNEDY ANNIVERSARY UNC CLAD SET (K14) 127,749 (up 2,862)

  220. VA Rich says

    Pitt – yeah, and it the mint was true to their word of 6,000/weeks for four weeks we should see that back-order status drop this week, and step out day for day on the 10th. Back to earlier point last Wednesday, if sales at week this time next week, yeah I agree, pull the plug!

  221. eddie says

    Why do these other mints charge so much for their 5ozers? Ours are $139.00 – $159.00 depending on subscription or not and theirs are $500.00 – $600.00 if not more. I had much rather buy 4 or 5 of the AtBs than get just one of theirs.
    I guess that makes since if you are stacking silver. But still.

  222. cagcrisp says

    The BHOF clads have been available for 24 weeks. The Kennedy Anniversary clads have been available for 7 weeks and Once Again from a Dollar Sales amount the BHOF coins have Outsold the Kennedy Anniversary clads.

    Total $$ Sales for All BHOF clads was $88,703.60
    Total $$ Sales for Anniversary Kennedy clads was $ 28,476.90

  223. cagcrisp says

    @VA Rich, I agree Completely that they should pull the plug. I don’t think they will. The Mint has painted themselves in a corner. I don’t see they can cease Sales until After they Offer the Silvers. I would hate for someone to lose out on $4.95 by not being allowed to purchase All three products at one time…

  224. VA Bob says

    Guys I wish they’d stop selling the JFK gold too, but we aren’t even in the gold buying season yet. The are going to sell quite a few more.

  225. eddie says

    Total $$ Sales for Anniversary Kennedy clads was $ 28,476.90.

    You have to remember that the Kennedy anniversary clads have a 5 limit on them and the BHoF clads never did.

  226. Pittsburgh P says

    VaRich we both know they won’t pull the plug especially IF they have been makin 6000 a week and haven’t stop. If the backorder is gone next week and say they produce one more week of 6000 it’ll take em the rest of the year to sell em 😉 This train might not stop til Dec 2015!

    Yeah cag oh man another $4.95!!! It’s not like the gold and silver versions came out a week apart! Throw a dime in a jar everyday until Oct 28th & you got shipping paid for 🙂

    Eddie they did have a household limit for the clad BHoFs & still do. It is 100 and alot higher but “supposedly” that keeps the same buyer from getting more than 100 period making it harder to sell still. I know its not 5 but it is a restriction and they have been available for almost a half year while the JFK clads for

  227. Pittsburgh P says

    6 weeks. For them to be out performing them is saying something imo… Can’t tell you what though ; -)

  228. Naga says

    Pittsburgh P, thanks for the info. I guess I’ll look into buying from non-mint dealers for my non-proof coins.

  229. Clark says

    I finally received my proof and unc Eleanor Roosevelt coins and was pleasantly surprised with the quality of both sides. Her portrait is a reasonably good likeness of her, and the reverse’s tribute to her “global humanitarian accomplishments” looks better than the pre-production images we saw. The reverse looks particularly stunning in the proof finish.

    Most First Spouse coins have been disappointing, yet if there is to be a stand out among them, it is fitting for it to be that of Eleanor Roosevelt. As Ken Burns’ recent seven part PBS series on the Roosevelts reminded us, Eleanor proved to be a more capable and visionary world leader than most presidents. As the series winds down, I’m more than pleased to add these coins to my collection. Well done, U.S. Mint.

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