2014 Great Sand Dunes 5 oz Silver Bullion Coins

Great Sand DunesThe United States Mint has informed authorized purchasers that they will begin accepting orders for the America the Beautiful Five Ounce Silver Bullion Coins featuring the Great Sand Dunes National Park design on Monday, August 25, 2014. This will be the fourth bullion release of the series for this year.

The design of the coin features a father and son playing in the sand next to the creek bed with the distinctive mountains and sand dunes of the park featured in the background.

The America the Beautiful Five Ounce Silver Bullion Coin series carries the designs of the America the Beautiful Quarters struck in 5 troy ounces of .999 fine silver with a diameter of 3 inches. The bullion coins feature a brilliant finish and do not carry a mint mark. These are distributed through a network of authorized purchasers based on the market price of silver plus a fixed mark up.

The United States Mint also offers the 5 oz sized coins in numismatic format. The numismatic coins feature an uncirculated finish created through a vapor blasting technique and carry the “P” mint mark. These are sold directly by the United States Mint at fixed prices, which are subject to adjustment in the event of larger changes in the silver price.

Interestingly, the numismatic versions have been recently been outselling the bullion versions of the coin. Shown below are the sales figures to date for the first three releases of this year.

Sales Figures for 2014 ATB 5 oz Silver Coins
Numismatic Bullion
Great Smoky Mountains 24,706 29,500
Shenandoah 25,898 20,000
Arches 25,699 20,000

If the trend holds up, this will create the interesting dynamic whereby the scarcer coin based on mintage is sold at a lower price. The US Mint currently charges $154.95 (or $139.45 by subscription) for the numismatic versions. The bullion versions are typically sold by bullion dealers based on a mark up to the silver value. Some dealers are accepting pre-orders for the upcoming Great Sand Dunes design at prices ranging from around $110 to $120 depending on purchase volume.

The US Mint has scheduled the numismatic version of the Great Sand Dunes design for release on September 15, 2014.

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  1. jeff says

    My 4/12 6:34 order for 5 unc. Bhof item no longer available same order PRF is&r so that’s it for the uncirculated.

  2. VA Rich says

    Jeff – per cag’s numbers yesterday, we may be down to 131 on the UNCs and with the quality issues on the last half of the lot, it may add a new dynamic to the roller coaster ride yet to be seen. While I’m not a label chaser, those FS/ER ones with the better strike may very be deserving of a higher premium.., thinking out loud here.

  3. stephen m says

    Jeff, My unc silver BBHOF ordered on 4-11-14 @7:42AM now says cancelled. Item no longer available. I ordered them while the waiting list was out. I did receive 2ea. of the gold, silver and clad in proof that are very nice, which was what I initially wanted. Wish now I had ordered all six coins from the offering start.

  4. VA Rich says

    CO – I pre-ordered a 2015 10 oz Kook last night for $224, couldn’t pass on that value. May have to pull back on Dunes and go for a ’14 Kook.

  5. thePhelps says

    Rich…I’m not sure I buy into all the “quality issues” on the later BHoF coins. I had no issues with either my early or later releases. I also think many here scrutinize the coins way closer than the average buyer – some use higher lopes than the graders even… so I think it gets a bit out of kilter to read here about all the issues.

    We will see – but I think volume also has smething to do with more people complaining – and the silvers really didn’t ship in volume until later. Plus there were more of this coin than most regular releases – adds to the noise volume of poor quality.

  6. Joseph says

    Gold is down big today. those who ordered Gold JFK after price increase will cancel theirs next week. don’t see any big jump on purchase

  7. gary says

    The Great Sand Dunes is a breathtaking design. I’m not at all surprised that the numismatic P-mint versions are outselling the raw bullion 5 oz. The vapor blast finish looks so fantastic on these coins! Have a Mint subscription for the ATB’s to keep my full set current.

  8. Sith says

    Oh and who called me a “flipper” when I said I reduced my ATB subscription to buy more bullion versions based on the lower mintages.

  9. jeff says

    I think the bhof will be wrapped up this week and the mint can start on the Kennedy silvers if not already I would hope a September release but what do I know.

  10. says

    VA Rich,

    I did the same thing after speaking to Louis a bit about it. I increasingly find these low mintage bullion issues such as the AtBs and some of the stuff produced by Perth to not entirely make sense being treated as “bullion” given the very low mintages.

    I also really like the design of the 2015 kook and I hope they do a “colored” version like they did for the 2014 release that Michael wrote about a few days ago. Easily one of my best purchases this year.

  11. says

    Did CR win? Have we gone back to the Old Format? Things don’t look Right for Me?

    (I can’t be held responsible for me spelling If I can’t see what I am typing)

  12. AkBob says

    I’m not having any trouble seeing:))) Yet! I just went to the eye doctor on Tuesday and it went fine:))) Anyone else having trouble seeing?

  13. Brad (The Original) says

    I wonder if the Mint only produced 20,000 of the Shenandoah and Arches bullion coins, or if that’s just the number they’ve sold so far? If 20,000 is all there will be for those designs, they are definitely a bargain at today’s prices.

  14. Jon in CT says

    cagcrisp wrote on August 21, 2014 at 3:16 PM:

    Did CR win? Have we gone back to the Old Format? Things don’t look Right for Me?

    I also just started to have a problem on this site with the way the text is displayed. Here’s a screen grab which illustrates my problem when view this site using Chrome. Curiously, everything looks OK when viewed using Internet Explorer.

  15. GoldFishin says

    I use Firefox, I don’t ever remember having issues that others complain about quite often.

  16. Boz says

    After watching the bullions pucks at zero new sales I figured the AP’s were at the ed of the line for them, and/or waiting for the dunes and glades for Christmasgiving. Todays report seems to corroborate that assumption.

  17. Jon in CT says

    gary wrote on August 21, 2014 at 12:50 PM:

    The Great Sand Dunes is a breathtaking design.

    Yeah, what could be more natural than a scene depicting a man dressed in a loincloth playing in the sand with a boy wearing only underwear?

  18. MAT says

    Jon in CT

    ” Here’s a screen grab which illustrates my problem when view this site using Chrome.”
    Shame on you.

  19. Eagle One says

    I received my Gold Kennedy today. All I can say is “God Bless the US Mint and God Bless America. ” The coin is absolutely perfect, flawless, and was not someone else’s return. This coin design looks incredible in gold; as I knew it would. It feels like an honor to own something so perfect and so symbolic. They should limit ownership to US citizens only. Such an impressive and emotionally moving coin. I almost get a sense of closure from November 22, 1963. This coin will stay with my family forever. Thank you US Mint.

  20. GoldFishin says

    @Eagle One- I am not sure if you were clear enough….did you like the coin?

    just kidding of course…glad you got a good one!! Congrats! It really is a beautiful coin and I can’t understand why anyone would want their example to be as perfect as possible? it just baffles me. 😉

  21. Jon in CT says

    For those who remember my off-topic comment about all the gold that is still embedded in the walls of the old Perth Mint in Australia (see http://mintnewsblog.com/2014/08/us-mint-circulating-coin-production-july-2014/comment-page-2/#comment-105773), a letter in today’s WSJ offered some related information about the old San Francisco Mint.

    Regarding the page one article “At Australian Mint, History Thwarts a Golden Opportunity” (Aug. 14), this isn’t the first time mints have made money this way. San Francisco Mint in 1886 reclaimed more than 170 ounces of gold when it burned the carpets where the miners brought in their gold.

    The annual report of the director of the mint for the fiscal year ended June 30, 1886 contained this: “As it is unusual for a Coiner to return an excess of bullion, it is proper to state that this excess arose from gold and silver recovered from old carpets in the adjusting room, which, being unfitted for further use, were burned and produced 171.672 standard ounces of gold and 44.37 standard ounces of silver. These carpets had been in use seven years.”

    Beverly Hills, Calif.

  22. cagcrisp says

    @Eagle One, Congrats. I too think my coins are Well worth the money and I though all mine were 70’s. I think I got some of the Original 1,300 that were destined to be distributed at either Chicago, Denver, Philadelphia or Washington, D.C.

  23. Eagle One says

    @ GoldFishin, cagcrisp,

    These Gold Kennedy’s are truly worth having. It looks great sitting next to my 1998-S Silver Matte and 1776-1976-S Silver. Well worth the time, wait, and the $$$. Hopefully the steep price will keep the mintage down. Now it’s all about getting the Four Piece Silver Set. Then I’m done and broke. That will lock down and complete my Kennedy Collection. Almost done. Cheers.

  24. gatortreke says

    I bought 5 gold Kennedy’s and 4 of the 5 were perfect to my eyes. There was a small issue with the 5th. I kept one of the good ones and sold the other 4 to a local coin dealer buddy who bought them at face with the deal he’d split the proceeds from what he makes on them. He was happy to get the coins and I was happy to get to search through 5 to get the best one possible. I wasn’t sure how much I’d like the coin in gold when I ordered it but I have to admit I really do like it so like Eagle One, I plan to keep mine forever as well.

  25. Jerry Diekmann says

    Michael – PLEASE bring back the old format. Dark gray on light gray is hard to see!!! Thank you.

  26. Buzz Killington says

    For whatever it’s worth, I like the new format. If people are having problems with it, maybe they need to change the font size.

  27. TimTom says

    @gatortreke – Yot any more gold Kennedys you’d part with for FV? Fifty cents seems like a fair price to me! 😉

  28. Small time collector says

    VA Rich
    re your question on ticks on the letters on the reverse of kennedys.
    I had not viewed my coins and with reports decided to scrutinize mine. One is stellar, the other has little marks obvious across the raised portions of sTATes Of. Looking back and forth changing the light angle the marks totally disappear when light is directly above the coin. I wonder if it is the bottom of frosted texture is not parallel to the balance of the letter. It’s definately not a ding in the letter, rather a tonal or texture deal.
    I’ve not scrutinized any coin to the extent I did this coin to find the blemish (10x loupe and bright light). It’s apparent. The only coins I’ve had graded are gold buffalo proofs and uhr. 9 of 10 were 70’s and only my 06 Buffalo was a 69 and I feel was because I bought it deep into the offering (conversely the others were bought on the first day). Now, I think I’ll talk with the mint to see what they say prior to sending it right back. I’m certainly not going to fret about it, yet they may want it back (as they requested a coin with a big greasy thumb print on the face years ago).

  29. ClevelandRocks says

    Michael: Please let us know about the “sold-out”-NOT “sold-out”, “sold-out”, gottcha again! “Not sold out” UNCs.
    Old format please!

  30. Bob R says

    Yeah, the great sand dunes in Colorado, been there, walk around for 15 minutes, got sand in the shoes, kids are not impressed, we all jump back into the motor vehicle, drive into the mountains, and up to Aspen, now kids are happy. Why the sand box is a ATB is beyond me.

  31. VA Rich says

    Off topic, though a little closer to getting Back on the Ranch,

    That production of 6,000 gold JFKs must be having an effect or the combined effect with the number of cancellations, gold JFK is available for shipping 03 Sept now – so we all get FS/ER designations – Yeah, We’re Saved! – j.k.

  32. VA Rich says

    Hey cag, there’s a string of ANA label auctions that will conclude in the next 10 hours, it’ll be interesting to see if these fall short of $2,500 or settle out around the trend you identified earlier in the week.

  33. MarkH says

    Jon in CT-nice article about the carpet in the SF mint. 171 ounces? Wow, expensive carpet!
    As to the platinum coins, they are truly beautiful, but unless you want to hold them forever and have huge amounts of money to burn, why buy? You are also taking a huge risk since so much platinum is used in industrial applications…look at what happened to the price of platinum in ’09. And then, whom do you sell to? As an investment they are very illiquid in my opinion.
    Small wonder they aren’t selling well.


  34. cagcrisp says

    There were 21 Auctions on 08/21 for the Gold Kennedy in OGP. Of those, 3 Sold. 2 sold from the same seller for $1,280.00 and 1 sold for $1,319.78. None of the Winning bids were placed After it became apparent (to me at least) that the Price for the Gold Kennedy will be $1,240.00 next Wednesday afternoon.

  35. Sith says

    Brad – The mint indicated it had sold out of inventory but it would run another batch. I’m going to jinx myself but if the APs have enough in stock, they will not order more of the older coins. Then add that it looks like the mint is having a hard time getting blanks and those blanks are going to the “P” versions. IMHO they will run a few thousand more in the next batch.

  36. cagcrisp says

    For Today there are 23 Auctions for Gold Kennedy in OGP that Close Today. Unless something drastically changes, I only see 1 of these having a chance at Selling. There is 1 that has 4 bids @ current price of $1,295.00. The lowest Starting bid for the remaining 22 auctions is $1,375.00 (but that does include Free Shipping!!)

  37. Pittsburgh P says

    Eagle one & gator glad to hear you got winners also!
    Eagle I feel the same way & havn’t been this happy/satisfied with a coin purchase in awhile… I’m gonna be done buying for the rest of the year with exception to the silver set unless something catches my eye at the Baltimore show…

  38. SKM says

    @Pittsburgh P. – My JFK Gold coin arrived yesterday. The coin is beautiful. I am very, very pleased with the coin’s mirror-like appearance. I am looking forward to the fall release of the silver JFK set.

    I am a JFK fan : )

  39. Pittsburgh P says

    Great SMK! Glad to hear… It would be nice if the Mint gave a date for the JFK silver set to look forward too

  40. cagcrisp says

    Good News People!! We can Solve one Mint Mystery. I sent an email to the US Mint concerning Whether Sales Numbers reported were gross sales or net sales (cancellations factored in). Here is the reply I got back:

    “The weekly sales figures represent a cumulative total of net sales demand reported from the launch of each product through the report date. Order cancellations are factored into these sales figures.”

  41. Ikaika says

    Rearding the 2013 Unc set, could it be possible the mint is experimenting with the “soldout” vs “in stock” effect on sales? Do not want to play the devil’s advocate here, but hope Michael can give us some clear answers.

  42. Pittsburgh P says

    Cag thanks for clearing that up! Glad the mint got back with an answer… So they actually do figure in cancellations for the given time period not factor them in the next. Now if we could only get the number of cancellations.

  43. cagcrisp says

    @Pittsburgh P, The Key is Cancellations. Current week sales are @ $1,277.50 and ship date is not until 09/03 so IF gold drops next Wednesday and the Gold Kennedy is $1,240.00 next Wednesday How many will know and cancel this weeks sales and Buy back after Wednesday?

    So…this weeks sales could be higher than last weeks (1,180) and then Next weeks sales could reflect cancellations made from this weeks Sales…


  44. DCDave says

    @Ikaika: looks like the mint can lie about things and get away with it. I think his has happened before.

  45. Sith says

    Based on my experience with the UHR the mint will place as many coins as possible as “in stock and reserved” before the price drops. IMHO If you bought the coin at a higher price I would cancel now. If you wait until the actual price drop it will be to late.

  46. says

    Ikaika, I couldn’t help but to think the same thing about the U13 set. You have to assume a lot of people purchased the set once the set was listed at “sold out.” With an interim Mint director still making decisions, I think the Mint is acting on a business model of making up for of losses incurred over the pest few years. Although the business model seems to be working for them, I just think it has resulted in a recently tarnished image.

    As for my own gold Kennedy cancellations, It was too late for me to do it on line because my cancel box had dispersed. I did try have them cancelled over the phone, but was unable.
    Someone asked earlier about who the process of refusing a shipment works. Nothing has to be done on your part, it’s simply sent back to it’s destination where you will receive credit to you CC. Otherwise, it wouldn’t hurt to contact costumer service to clarify exactly what you want done.
    The only thing that I don’t like about it at this point is that it’s taken a week so far and I still have yet to see any tracking info on it. I’m told it’s normal by the post office personnel, and that it will probably take two weeks to get to the destination. It’s a lesson in patience.

    After reading all the good reports on the nice look of the gold half, I REALLY hope a niche appears in my finances to join the “owners” club, or should I say, find the cajones in me and make it happen!

  47. Mark Rex says

    Anyone know how long it typically takes the US Mint to issue a refund once they receive it? They signed for my return at 10am on 8/20. Thanks in advance!

  48. Steve says

    Both of my Kennedy gold’s came back 69s from NGC. I’m sick to my stomach. I’m done with grading, and I might be done with coins altogether.

  49. Joseph says

    TimTom says
    AUGUST 21, 2014 AT 10:40 PM

    @gatortreke – Yot any more gold Kennedys you’d part with for FV? Fifty cents seems like a fair price to me! 😉

    Oh, come on, 50c is too “much”. maybe $500 when gold is at ,say,$700/oz

  50. VA Rich says

    Mark Rex – my return coins were delivered to the mint on the 18th; the mint acknowledged receipt on the evening of the 21st; still on CC refund pending as of yet. So I’d say a good 5 business days.

  51. Jon in CT says

    Steve wrote on August 22, 2014 at 12:33 PM:

    Both of my Kennedy gold’s came back 69s from NGC. I’m sick to my stomach. I’m done with grading, and I might be done with coins altogether.

    OMG!!!! I took a chance but somebody at NGC didn’t think MY coins were perfect!!!! Woe is me!!!!

    If you can only live with “perfect” coins in your collection, then why didn’t you spend a little extra in the first place and buy ones already graded that way?

  52. VA Rich says

    Flippers had better unload while there’s a market left for those ANA labels… wonder how Kevin Lipton and that clown at HSN are doing with sales?

  53. Ikaika says

    OT: For those collecting the Zombucks silver series, any suggestion on how to best display and store these? I was thinking about an ASE Dansco album, but it might be too big for the series. Thanks!

  54. VA Rich says

    En masse Steve – lower cost for entry. What is why I question why some feel that it has good apprection prospects, if its not limited mintage, hundreds of thousands of sets will be sold!

  55. Bob R says

    FYI just received my replacement $1 BHOF unc, they are perfect and not a recycled return, that really surprised me.

  56. bg35765 says

    I have spent some time doing research and I now understand why I am going to take a bath on these gold Kennedy coins. I knew there were fewer Kennedy collectors than Silver Eagle collectors, but I didn’t realize how big of a difference there is.

    I picked a year sort of at random where neither series was new and also not during the recent run up in precious metals — 1998. The graded coins from this year (or any near it) should give an indication of the size of the collector bases.

    1998 also happened to be the year of the Kennedy commemorative with a special finish.

    1998 Graded populations:
    Mint State Kennedy – 322 D + 362 P
    Proof Silver Kennedy – 4,101
    Proof Clad Kennedy – 3,997
    Kennedy Commemorative – 2,723

    Mint State Silver Eagle – 4,949
    Proof Silver Eagle – 10,321

    I was shocked how few of the mint state Kennedy coins have been graded. These would be the “gotta have every one” type collectors and there are evidently only a few hundred of them. You can probably double that number if you include NGC, but still it is a small group.

    I saw a post on the PCGS message board where the author thought the Chicago label was rare because there were only 900 of them. That number looks huge compared to 322. And it is a third of the PCGS population of the 1998 commemorative, which doesn’t sound bad until you consider the flood of non-Chicago labels to come.

    Buying slabs isn’t the only way to collect, and I’m sure there is a much larger group that fills folders with Kennedy half dollars. But I doubt that many of those people will feel obligated to buy the gold Kennedy, and I’m not sure they will feel obligated to buy the silver set either. But the lower price point will help.

  57. VA Bob says

    bg35765 – I’m curious (so please don’t take it the wrong way) but why would you compare JFK collectors with ASE collectors at all? Especially when it come to gold verses silver? Also, why would anyone put any faith in TPG population reports as an indicator of number of collectors? Perhaps a lot of people don’t want to pay the $$ to have a .50 cent piece that rarely circulates graded? The reason I ask is I have a 98 S matte finish in OGP, never had a desire to have it graded, I know its grade. Then again I’m not selling. Maybe some other collectors feel the same way. I’m just trying to understand the reasoning others have for determining the number of a particular coin’s collectors. I find the topic interesting.

  58. thePhelps says

    @bg35765… keep in mind that many people in the 90’s still didn’t consider graded coins as a must have – as it appearsmany of todays collectors do. So the fact is many who prchased the coins – probably never had them graded in 1998.

    I also think the silver collection is going to be the winner for the Kennedy… because it is going to have multiple different coin finishes – and will be unique – but still will be much like the traditional coins in the series. I have no idea if the coins will hold value, because there will be a flood of buyers hoping (again) to flip for a profit to pay for their purchases and it will dilute the market with oversells.

  59. JagFan says

    *Ikaika – I’m a big airtite fan so I tend to use the Tubes for long-term storage and for the sets that I’m putting together, I like the Guardhouse Trays. You can get them to fit any size airtite… You can put as many as four trays (each tray can be a different airtite size) into one storage box.

    There are a couple of different vendors that sell them and from time to time they will put them on sale..

    I have heard from Provident’s customer service in the past that at some point they will be selling a display box for the Zombucks series however I have’t seen anything on their site about it..

  60. MarkH says

    bg-What I have noticed with moderns in general terms-
    The coins with the lowest mintages retain the most value. (Duh). See 1996 Olympic dollars and 1995-W ASE.
    The others (much more rare) that seem to hold value best are those that just capture the collecting public’s imagination. The Kennedy gold could very well be in that category (similar to the 2001 silver buffalo). But the Kennedy gold certainly won’t get there based on mintage. Neither will the BHoF coins or the silver Kennedys.

    I don’t think the number of coins submitted for grading is germane to end value but I haven’t done any research along those lines. What I can say about grading though is the premium for 70 over 69 is usually much larger than anything I would pay for.

    One other thing-the number of graded coins could easily be an indication of dealer interest in selling more coins at higher premiums. If the ’98s don’t sell well then there just wouldn’t be any incentive for dealers to submit as many coins. And I bet the majority of moderns submitted for grading come from dealers. (That last is just a guess on my part).

  61. Hawkster says


    Unfortunately, the perception is out there that the gold Kennedy in OGP is more desirable than one with a 69 grade–especially with the large percentage of 70’s being given out to this coin. Yeah, I can see where you think that you wasted your money to have them graded.

  62. gary says

    When a gold Kennedy comes back graded PR69, the slab is a bodybag. Hope you retained the Mint OGP to crack it out & put it back. It’ll do better as such. Otherwise it gets looked upon as a purely bullion item.

  63. bg35765 says

    VA Bob – You have a valid point. I chose silver eagles because they have also been sold in a similar manner the past couple of years, although without the household limits. (Comparisons to last year’s reverse proof buffalo have already been done.)

    Silver eagles and Kennedy halfs are fairly comparable in appearance and cost. Collecting the entire series of each is within reach of the middle class coin collector, except for maybe the 1995-W.

    I couldn’t think of a better coin to compare it to on a series vs. series basis. I guess it comes down to the argument of whether the gold coin is part of the Kennedy series or is a standalone bullion coin.

    Has there ever been a single gold coin made in a US series that was otherwise entirely composed of other metals? I can’t think of one.

  64. Pittsburgh P says

    Bg I do think that gold kennedy is part of the jfk series & think most collectors of the series would also…
    I cannot think of another where it has been done either. One reason it’s so unique.

  65. VA Rich says

    A 3rd ANA Label today just ended now – below $2,500 – Gentleman, perhaps this is the beginning of the end with these show labels –

    Show Label Flippers – flip now while you can still get 2 grand +!

  66. gary says

    Flip the PF69 Kennedy golds, while you still can (?) and get back at least the $1240 OGP cost.

  67. Ikaika says

    @ VA Rich

    Most here in this blog is following that auction site for these JFKs coin sales. I would be interested to know how much Silvertowne and Co are getting for their coins. Let’s remember they were the ones that caused all the chaos and are the real flippers here.

  68. GoldFishin says

    I will tell you what is killing the label business and the flipping business and in my opinion has the potential to make the JFK Kennedy Silver Set another disaster for the fly by night flippers . Every hot new issue now, both NGC and PCGS jack up the price of having coins graded by creating a label that you can only get by submitting your coins under a much higher tier, driving up the costs per coin to almost unprofitable levels given how everybody and their first cousin are now trying to flip the latest and greatest offering.

    Good example is the JFK offering:
    Cost of coin: $1240
    Grading : $60 NGC Express Tier
    Submission Fees and Insured Shipping Both Ways: Another $60
    For a total of $1360 to grade one coin, your costs would be reduced somewhat by submitting more coins as shipping cost and submissions fee would be spread out.

    So, you have a starting cost of $1360 to have a coin graded, then you add to that Ebay expenses of 13% of sales price for regular users, or 10% for Ebay store owners plus your cost of shipping insured, another $28.25. A current sales price for regular NGC ER PF70 are fetching around $1650.
    Expenses $1388.25
    Ebay and PayPal Fees for Store Owners. Approx. $147

    Total Expenses $1535.25

    Now , you can see that is very little profit of $115, but if you get a coin back graded PF69 you are going to take a big hit and lose over $235 at current selling prices. This offering for non-ANA labels is a big risk little reward scenario. You had better submit perfect coins. More on the silver set later. Mark’s head is already spinning. 🙂

  69. GoldFishin says

    @VA RICH- My son and I really enjoy the “Walking Dead” series and that is an awesome vehicle. I would love to see it used in the series!! 🙂

    Talked to customer service today about my JFK return, they said it may take up to 9-15 before my coins would ship back. She said they could be waiting on a new shipment to arrive. I haven’t seen any updates at all to my order since the coins were returned on Wednesday. Maybe things will change on Monday.

  70. NC_Stacker says

    Still waiting for the mint to ship my order. It was placed @ 13:10 on the 5th……come on people return yours so I can get your return 🙂

  71. Jon in CT says

    Ikaika wrote on August 22, 2014 at 7:55 PM:

    Another article on the JFK sales in Coin Week. This one by Charles Morgan:

    The byline on that article actually reads:

    By Charles Morgan, Scott Purvis, and Hubert Walker for CoinWeek…

    TV stations refer to that type of reporting of a major event as “Team Coverage.”

  72. MarkH says

    Ikaika-nice link. It just underscores why I will not spend extra for a label. For those that wish to-all the power to them, but at some point you’ll need to have someone verify the authenticity of the label as well because it will be a greater store of value than the coin itself.


  73. Hawkster says

    A PCGS or NGC grade of “69” is now the kiss of death. Get the hammer, bust it out of its tomb, and put it back in the OGP.

  74. cagcrisp says

    I said that I would not buy any of the 2014 50th Anniversary Kennedy Half-Dollar Uncirculated Coin Set (K14), HOWEVER, If anyone has any of these 69’s, I may be persuaded to purchasing them from you. I would hate for anyone to be sick about a 69 Clad…

  75. ABC says

    On that same note. If anyone here wants to unload a 1995 W Silver American Eagle that’s graded PR69 at the current spot price, let me know.

  76. GoldFishin says

    I made a mistake I need to correct about the loss on a PF 69 Kennedy. At current selling prices of around $1450-$1475 at recent auctions you would only lose about $85, give or take. My main point is with the TPG’s now creating higher tiered pricing for every hot new release coupled with the already high ebay-paypal fees and significant competition selling in the secondary markets, the TPG’s are killing the golden goose. When nobody can make a dime on grading moderns, the whole game unravels. I guess you could make the economic argument that eventually all markets correct and I think we could be in the beginning stages of the “special label” bubble bursting. It may take a couple more years to play itself out.

  77. MarkInFlorida says

    I can’t imagine how so many people got snookered by labels. Used o be a proof was a proof. You looked at a few and took the nicest one and they were all the same price. Now a 70 proof is better than a 69 proof, and costs more. Dealers love it because how else could they make money on new coins?
    I always wondered how stamp and coin dealers made money, when a catalog said an item was worth $10, who would sell it for less or pay more? I guess what they used to do was, if a coin was a Fine, they’d tell the seller it was a VG, and tell the buyer it was a VF. Now they buy the same proofs we do, and tell buyers some are 70s.
    As for me, when I buy extras of the Mint’s coins for my sons, or gifts, or occasionally to flip, I don’t even look at them all. I bought an extra set of the HoF golds and silvers and sold it to a dealer friend and neither of up opened the little boxes to examine them.

  78. says

    GoldFishin, TPG’s primarily authenticate, which is a valuable service, secondly they grade, labels are just the icing on the cake. They know this bad talk will blow over, it’s just a matter of time before no one mentions it again. On the other hand the real numismatists won’t so easily forget, and neither will groups like the ANA.

  79. Bob R says

    A coin dealer is nothing more than a pawn shop, it has always been that way, they should be called “coin pawn”.

    You can submit coins to PCGS and note to only slab coins at your min grade, they will still charge you but if you get some 69ers they will not slab them. I do not know if NGC does that.

    On another note I received back 5 2012 ASE unc set from PCGS, all graded MS69, and to add insult one has a white piece of FOD (foreign object debris) in the holder on smack dab on the sun. Well I tapped the holder on the table and low and behold it moves around so it is not the coin but FOD. It’s a dandruff flake, no DNA to figure that out. I called PCGS to bitch and question why 5 of 5 would grade 69 when something like 75% are graded 70. I asked about their quality control and why I have FOD in the holder. Their response is to send it back and request “Free Blow Off”.

    With everything all said and done PCGS (and I for sending them in for grading) destroyed 5ea 2102 Unc Dollar Sets by coming back MS69.

    I will never send coins or sets in for grading, the potential for loss is much higher than gain. Let the late coin show crooks play it out, just as Jimmy and Tammy Faye Bakker did with the PTL club.
    I truly cannot tell the difference between my 69 and 70’s other than one 69 has dandruff!

  80. jhawk92 says

    With the pricing on the bullion pucks, I am contemplating whether I want to add them to my collection. I have been collecting the P pucks since the beginning and enjoy the series. I haven’t seen any of the bullion coins in person but have heard they can be quite attractive.

    Do folks here collect both? If so, where do you buy them? I have been a regular customer of Provident and APMEX for a while but have read their disclaimers about flawed coins from the mint. I know it would be tough to work backwards on the bullion set but it is tempting…

  81. stephen m says

    Bob R, Most 69’s and 70’s are indistinguishable to me also. It’s a big money game of chance getting a 70 grade. The ASE sets I wanted in 70 grade were purchased from dealers at the best price I could find. Most came from MCM but in the last couple of years they do have more price competition than they use to or they have went up on their prices. Most did come down in price after some time goes by so those purchase are taking a chance also. Most everything In moderns nowadays I get straight from the Mint and keep them in OGP. Value wise I view a 69 as being worth the same as OGP currently.

  82. VA Bob says

    jhawk92 – The only 5oz. bullion ATB’s I have are the first year 2010. I made a choice to collect only the numismatic “P” versions because of cost and length of the program (some IMO poor designs coming up). My reasoning is even though there are some low mintage (and attractive) bullion coins, one would always have to face that argument from a future buyer that is only bullion. There is plenty of bullion out there with lesser mintages, though these are from private mints. If a bullion coin can ever make the crossover (like the TV coin shows like to do with bullion ASE’s) for the average guy, these will be an excellent series to have. I’m just not sure how they will be viewed in the future. Some of these do look nicer than the “P’s”.

    Two things you should be aware of if you do decide to go that way is first there has been some quality issues with some releases. It was hard to get a good example. One of the bullion sellers (can’t remember which) even stop selling individual coins (tubes only) because of it. Second, some of the releases are hard to find now, and can be pricey.

    APMEX, Provident, Gainesville, MCM, and maybe a few others are your main sources for the bullion versions, as you all ready know. You have to be aware of the shipping and return policies (restocking fees, etc.). Not so big if your stacking silver, but can be an issue if you want the best quality coin. Good luck, these coins do tend to grow on a person. I still wish they used a value larger than a quarter dollar though…. what’s next a .50 cent gold piece?? 😉

  83. Clark says

    jhawk92–ModernCoinMart’s ebay store sells bullion 5oz Nat’l Parks coins slightly lower than APMEX. I just picked up an Arches for $123.06 yesterday. The price fluctuates based on spot. Others may have different views,.

  84. Clark says

    VaBob–Nice response to jhawk. I focused solely on price if he decides to collect the bullion versions. BTW, MCM on ebay does not accept returns so if you don’t like the quality, you’re stuck with it. Also, all bullion 5 oz. nat’l parks quarters I’ve purchased from various sellers come in flips, not airtite capsules, which I must buy separately.

  85. VA Bob says

    The biggest difference for TPG’s between 69’s and 70’s is keeping their slabbed coins “valuable” in the eyes of the public. Too many 70’s cheapens their value, so after they just gave their best customers a boat load of 70’s to hawk at inflated prices, naturally they are going to give the little guys sending in their coins a spate of 69’s with a few 70’s tossed in to pad their population reports, which are now looked upon by some as indicators of a coins value. TPG are a business in it to make money.

    Sure TPG’s are great for authenticating coins, but do you really need that shiny new BHoF coin authenticated? Plenty of Americans don’t know about this coin let alone some forger in China. Ebay is a bad place to buy older, more likely to be faked coins (and even slabbed ones). Buy those at shows, or coin shops. A small electronic scale is your friend, as is a magnet and a loupe. Look up the markers for the coins you are looking for. Print them out and take them with you to the show/dealer in case you need a reference. Sellers seem to treat knowledgeable buyers much differently. Walk away from anyone that won’t allow you to examine the coin closely. Bring some cotton gloves in a Ziploc bag.

  86. VA Bob says

    Thanks for saying Gary. I just despise people being taken advantage of, and the best way to avoid it is to be informed. This blog’s commenters excels in that effort for the most part. People are going to do what they believe is in their best interest, and that’s good especially if they fully understand the why’s and what for’s. I’ve no problem if some see it differently than I do, that’s what helps, perhaps someone new to the hobby, make informed decisions. TPG’s might be the right fit for some. I just don’t want people to sell their own good judgment short. As long as one is willing to do a small amount of research, they can be just as good as a TPG in assessing the condition of their own coins. This applies whether they send them in for grading or keep them in OGP.

  87. MarkH says

    Jhawk-I too have a full collection of the -p pucks, mostly in OGP. Since I like the bullion pucks as well I have bought some of them too. Having been fore-warned about quality issues on this blog I bought the bullion pucks at MS-69. There is a bit of a premium but it’s not unreasonable and fully worth getting a pretty much flawless coin.


  88. VA Rich says

    VA Bob – thanks for the excellent and timely insight, and for validating my initial suspicion regarding “pad their population reports” with the small guys 69’s. I just sent off a very special package with a story behind it that I want to share with you former Navy guys tomorrow.

    Bob R – I feel your pain. I sent to them 10 of the best looking $1 BHoF PRFs I have ever seen and got 2 back as 70’s when they were grading ~87%. My 69’s are better specimens than the few 70’s I got off a retailer at the same time. I had to over buy on top of what I submitted to assemble a complete set.

  89. Tinto says


    I’ve purchased individual bullion ATB 5oz from APMEX and they’ve always shipped it to me in airtite capsules (so far) . The last one I bought from them was the Arches.

  90. jhawk92 says

    VA Bob-
    Yes, thanks for the great reply. When I started the series, I figured the P pucks might do better long-term, and I didn’t think I could afford to do both sets, especially with silver over $40/oz. Now that it is around $20, that makes things much nicer to buy, along with the mint subscription. I do purchase both, or really all three (proof, burnished, and bullion), ASE’s, but those are a different animal. I’ve actually not had the opportunity to see one of the bullion 5 oz in person, but I sure like the look/feel of the 5 oz P. I do hope either series, once complete, will be an excellent one to have. And great advice about supplies to take to a show/dealer!

    The quality issue does concern me, as I would not be stacking these, but building a nice collection. I, too, remember one of the companies not selling individual coins, but can’t find which one it is now. Generally, I avoid slabbing modern coins, with the exception of my collection of bullion MS69 ASE’s. I refuse to pay for any FS/ER label, so mine are plain blue PCGS labels. But with the 5 oz’ers, maybe it’s worth going that route. It’s just tougher to store the big slabs. Like others here, I don’t have an unlimited budget, and while I wouldn’t mind chasing some older coins/collections, I’ve been doing the modern route and picking/choosing a few other things.

    Thanks for the heads up on MCM’s eBay store. I’ll take a look, but a lack of return makes me a tad nervous. I have to weigh whether I want to backfill the bullion side, and plan to keep it going for another 6 years. I was really worried about doing that with the P version, but since the price has come down, it’s easier on the wallet. There are always a few other things during the year that peak my interest, so I just have to allocate around.

    How do the two types compare side by side? I would want a high quality coin, so maybe the MS69 isn’t a bad idea. I just hate the FS moniker.

  91. Clark says

    Thanks, Tinto. I wasn’t lucky enough to get the capsules from APMEX, but I switched to MCM a while back and haven’t ordered from APMEX since… which may explain the slightly higher APMEX prices. The capsules I get aren’t cheap, but not terribly expensive either. Anytime I’ve inadvertently kept bullions N.P. 5 ouncers in flips, the edge exposed to the open side of the flip tarnished fast. So capsules are a must, IMO. I do appreciate how much slabs protect many coins in my collection, but I can’t deal with those enormous NGC slabs for N.P.s and am not a big fan of PCGS.

  92. MarkH says

    Jhawk- I don’t pay extra for any stupid FS/ER label. And I say “stupid” because they’re really “first 30 days sold”, not “first strike”, although the former designation probably wouldn’t market as well. With the bullion 5 oz’ers I just buy a plain old MS-69 slabbed coin. They look great next to the vapor blasted coins. The bullion puck is much shinier and the two make a great pair.


  93. Eagle One says

    @Bob R

    On the subject of FOD, which is an industrial term used in most industries, and highly applicable to the process of encapsulating rare coins – I agree with you. FOD is a consideration, concern, or problem for the TPCs. I have noted , over time, very small black micro fibers, lint, and once a very small wood fiber enclosed in some XXXXX certified holders. I had purchased several MS70 2013-W XXXXX ASEs that had very tiny brown spots on the inside of the holder’s lens. These coins were cracked out and dipped because of spots. A very close inspection of the spots on the lenses under magnification lead me to believe these spots were possibly coffee or hot chocolate. I’ve watched the XXXXX process tour video on YouTube and noted the air nozzle at the encapsulation operation. I would suggest that XXXXX add a static ionizer to the operation, since the plastic back shells are hot static generating materials that naturally attract nylon fibers and other FOD. Blowing air on plastic will naturally cause a static charge to build and this attracts more FOD. It is called tribocharging. Also, the air used to blow off the coins and back shells in the process, I hope they are using nitrogen and not CDA. Clean Dry Air is always prone to oil vapors and mists produced by the mechanical air compressor and no matter how many inline filters or separators you use, sub micron oil particles get through in the form of vapor. A little semi-conductor manufacturing knowledge and expertise in ESD practices would go a long way here.

  94. says

    jhawkkkif eye appeal is really important to you on the bullion ATB’s…go with MS69 DMPL….is difference between a plain MS69 and a MS69 DMPL is huge.

  95. GoldFishin says

    @BOB R, Eagle One –
    I haven’t had much trouble with NGC slabs having fibers encased, but I have had numerous problems with PCGS’s slabs. I just received back a few 5 oz ATB’s I had submitted for grading and the very best example I send came back 70, but there is a small black fiber right in a very visible area that just drives me nuts. I know it doesn’t affect the coin’s grade, but it still is annoying. Something else I have noticed with PCGS slabs is there is some kind of embedded material sometimes in the plastic of the slab itself. This didn’t use to be a problem but I am seeing it more often lately. It has the effect of looking like a fiber or dirt, and is most often brownish in color. I am starting to choose NGC more often over PCGS because I think NGC holders are more airtight and they seem to really get the coins cleaned off well before they encapsulate them. Just my experience, others may have had different results.

  96. Ikaika says

    Just received my JFK clad set. Can’t believe one of the coins came in a capsule that was cracked almost in half. Quality wise not very good either. The P one has many surface scratches.

  97. Eagle One says


    I think the dark fibers are coming from the table mats in the grading room. Additionally, the encapsulation process should be done under a laminar flow hood with overhead static ionizers. The encapsulation process should take place in a room that resembles a Class 10,000 cleanroom and Class 100 conditions under the flow hood. The next generation holders are migrating towards scratch resistant materials, anti reflective coatings, and optically clear lens materials. So, the improved optical quality of the holder to the coin will make FOD more evident to the customer in the future. They now need to give closer attention to FOD and the cleanliness of their processes.

  98. Hawkster says

    There is an easy solution to not having TPG’s compromise the condition of the modern issue coin( s) you submit to them. DON’T submit them. Why take the chance that the coins will be contaminated by the graders’ bare hands, as well as environmental contamination resulting from the grading process.

  99. Hidalgo says

    Despite all of the negative comments about TPGs, from what I see on eBay, there is still a demand for such certified coins. And as expected, the higher the MS/PF rating, the more valuable the coins are on the secondary market.

  100. Louis says

    @Goldfishin’- E-Bay is not the only place to sell. There are coin auction companies that charge much lower fees than e-Bay and where you are dealing with more knowledgeable buyers on the whole. I have said this several times.

    I have a question for anyone who knows the answer- Where the devil can you still get tape to seal registered mail packages that is self-adhesive? The UPS Stores used to sell it but don’t anymore at least where I live, the post office does not sell, nor do office supply stores like Staples except for perhaps the old stuff you have to attach one piece at a time with water. 3-M used to and maybe still makes stuff on rolls that looks like regular packing tape but can be used on registered mail for the postmarks. Any ideas? I tried Amazon and e-Bay and had no luck there either. Thanks in advance.

  101. Jon in CT says

    Hidalgo wrote on August 23, 2014 at 7:18 PM:

    Despite all of the negative comments about TPGs, from what I see on eBay, there is still a demand for such certified coins. And as expected, the higher the MS/PF rating, the more valuable the coins are on the secondary market.

    You could make the same observations after watching cable TV home shopping coin sales shows. What’s your point?

  102. VA Rich says

    Louis, I bought some off Amazon 2 months ago though recall the product name for the search being obscure, I’ll have it to you & the vendor 2mrow.

  103. Louis says

    Thanks, Jon, but that appears to be regular shipping tape. The kind you need for registered mail needs to be of a material that you can take a postmark and put it all over the package covered with the tape. Most tape for shipping is not made of the right material (too glossy in finish) and won’t meet the USPS guidelines except the kind that you have to glue on or use water to attach and a self-stick kind 3-M made a few years ago that seems hard to find now.

    Thanks, Rich.

  104. GoldFishin says

    @Louis- I only talk about Ebay because it is the most used and liquid auction site and most people that sell in the secondary market are familiar with it. I used to buy on Teletrade quite a bit, but never tried selling there, just didn’t like the lack of control over your own sales, they also priced me out of buying there for the most part because of their high buyer fees. If you know of other sites that would be good for users you could just mention them again. I can’t keep up with everything discussed here even though I make a good effort at it. If it doesn’t interest me at the time I read it, I tend to just skim over it. Thanks.

  105. Louis says

    Thanks, Hidalgo. That is the water activated kind and does work, but there was something that had the same adhesive of regular packing tape (that does not require water, you just cut a piece and apply it) yet had the right surface for stamping postmarks that is much easier to use.

    GF- It is true you have to give up some control, and different venues are better for different coins. For lower end stuff and modern world issues not made of gold, e-Bay is probably best, for rarities something like Stack’s or Heritage, and for U.S. modern coins probably Great Collections. You can tell them to start at a certain % of your estimated value or they will decide for you, and they pay very quickly, though of course with e-Bay you get paid faster. BUT for coins over $1,000 there are O seller fees, just a few bucks to list, and for coins under $1,000 5%, which makes a big difference. As GC says, zero has a nice ring to it! And you don’t have to deal with shipping to sellers, and the weird or dishonest people who try to scam you until you show the tracking says the coin reached them at….etc.

  106. GoldFishin says

    @Louis- thanks…I will check out Great Collections…although I would love to purchase more rarites than I own, which is not many, my budget just does not allow it.

  107. Louis says

    I know what you mean, but it is still possible to get classic coins that are priced about the same as the modern stuff we buy that has good potential if you do your homework.

  108. GoldFishin says

    @Louis- I love to collect rainbow toned morgans and mercury dimes. To me rainbow toned coins are unique works of art and I love to look at them, especially under a loupe. I try to purchase my winged liberty in MS67 or for older issues at least MS60. I also from time to time try to purchase the $2.5 dollar Indian gold. I think they are so cool! I mostly buy authenticated pre-1955 coins. GC looks like it could be a good site for buying some of these coins maybe. I remember reading an article on MNB that someone linked to about purchasing rarities and how they tended to outperform significantly over other types of coin investments over time. I may in the future really try to diversify more and pick up a few rarities to anchor my collection.

  109. Louis says

    Thanks, guys. Looks like I will have to deal with the water-based stuff.

    My point on classics is it’s easy to end up spending a ton of $ over the years on basically common modern stuff, and the same money, or part it, spent on moderately scarce classic material will probably way outperform. I tend to favor a mix of the two, which is also a way of hedging your bets, or diversifying.

  110. MarkInFlorida says

    Bob R, that would be true if the PO didn’t have special requirements for registered mail.

  111. jhawk92 says

    +1 on your FS/ER label! I guess I should find a LCS and compare a P and bullion side-by-side. Tough call whether to take a shot at raw bullion or go for the graded ones. Provident has the first 4 2014 bullion coins for a very attractive price. I haven’t searched deep enough to see how a MS69 slab would differ in price. Guess I should start a spreadsheet. 🙂 Have you been successful in finding non-FS MS69 slabs?

    Are the DMPL really that much different? I guess they must be, as I see about $120-$140 over a raw bullion coin. That makes things a fair amount more expensive over the long term. But maybe that extra $$ would pay off.

  112. NC_Stacker says

    I see more and more of the gold Kennedy OGP no coin on the bay. But what I don’t see in these listings is the airtite that came with the OGP. Does that mean it was damaged when they took the coin out for grading? Or is the TPG’s hoarding these for a special label in the future?

  113. VA Rich says

    VABB, VA Bob, Harry B, & Doug – way off topic though I thought you may get out a kick out of it, I never really had an opportunity to share this before much less with Navy coin collectors. Perhaps something good can come from being on cruise!

    This happened back in the spring of 1997. I was 3 months newly reported to the Fleet of which 2 months and 28 days was already ‘haze grey and underway’ aboard the Indy.., & we had just pulled into Singapore. You ready for this? I’ll keep it G-rated.

    Some buds and I went out sightseeing and ended up Boat Quay for lunch one afternoon, and after throwing back a few suds, proceeded about our trek. We ended up getting off the wrong train stop somewhere on the north end, and just started meandering and ended up at this off the beaten path day market. Not long afterwards, I see this guy standing over several 2’x2′ trays of coins. I knew at that moment I’m camping out for while, so tell the guys to go ahead. I spend probably well over an hour and half combing through all these coins. I retrospect, I probably should have just bought the entire trays and not eaten for the rest of the cruise. Though I ended up buying 10 coins for about $40.

    Those coins have been locked up ever since and I kinda forgot about them until recently as I just got them back into my possession. I just sent 5 in for authentication – two 1799 draped bust dollars, & a 1878, 1888, & 1898 Morgans. I just hope that they’re real! They checked out Ok and look pretty good. I’ve been wanting to get more into the classics and this might push me that way. Anyhoo, can’t wait to see how they turn out and thanks for letting me share this story – I’m pretty stoked to see how this plays out. This hobby really is one big scavenger hunt!

  114. HarryB says

    @Va Rich: Great post. I spent several afternoons in Greek and Italian outdoor markets looking at coins in 72, best I found were some nice 30s Walker Halves, still have them somewhere. Most early US coins that I encountered were badly worn, shaved, or holed. Thanks for sharing.

  115. gary says

    @MarkH… Having a set of bullion pucks in MS69 is a WISE decision. There are so many roughed up & nicked, tarnished ones in varying degrees. Here’s where you get a bit of a bang for the buck of graded ones. I also have my full & complete P Mint OGP set. Just love the satiny vapor blast finish on these big coins. Would that I could, I’d do EXACTLY what you do with the bullion issues except my budget won’t allow for it.

  116. mark says

    I use water activated brown tape on everything. Love that stuff. And buyers love seeing it on their packages.

  117. MarkH says

    Jhawk-Believe it or not I had to actually look at the NGC slabs of my 2010 5oz bullion pucks to see if they were FS…turns out they were (In this case NGC Early Release). Since I don’t care about that label I just never paid attention to it. As I recall at the time those 5 coins were the cheapest I could find in MS-69, so the “Early Release” NGC label was simply incidental to the purchase. Whether or not one could find cheaper MS-69s would be interesting. I think I paid around $1000 for the 5 2010 bullion pucks in NGC MS-69. This would’ve been about 6 months ago.

    Gary-I only have 6 bullion pucks (plus the full -P collection….I am in the same boat as you wrt cost…I would have all the bullion coins but the cost is pretty high once you start adding things up. At the same time I can not believe how low silver is staying in dollar terms so I’m forever torn between spending more and wondering if I haven’t already spent too much. Then I think a little about it and go out and buy more:-)

  118. says

    @ jhawk92…imo…without a doubt the diff. is huge With a regular MS69 ATB, they are rather milky and dull, you will not see much, if any of your reflection when you hold the coin 15 inches in front of you. PL coins are in between…I’ve seen some PL coins that were pretty close to DMPL, and some that were really closer to plain MS69. With a DMPL ATB, the reverse side is always best (and that’s a good thing) and your reflection is very sharp…sometimes like looking in a mirror.
    If I just wanted a set with great eye appeal and wasn’t as concerned about re-sell value, I would rather have a set of MS67 DMPL than a MS69 set…. You may just have to buy some to see for yourself.
    Also, I’ve been pretty lucky over the years buying the raw bullion ATB’s from APMX, Provident, MCM, Scotsdale and others…I have several DMPL’s…some may be 68’s, but thet look great.

    Here is an auction for the 2013 bullion ATB’s…all PCGS MS69 DMPL…for $999 or best offer…so you might could pick up a set for $900/$180each. Last time I looked, he had 9 sets for sell.


    btw…NGC uses the designation DPL….same as PCGS DMPL

  119. gary says

    MarkH… if you have a subscription for the ATB P mints, I think it is a no brainer to continue to collect them with the cheap price. Sometimes the low price of silver is an advantage!

  120. MarkH says

    Gary-you’re so right. Cheap silver is a gift…currently it is below the price of production at most mines so it probably won’t still so low forever. I will for sure be buying at least all the -P pucks.

  121. MarkH says

    I noticed the Canadians produce coins with a face value that reflects the value of the metal they’re made of. What if the U.S. mint were to produce circulating silver coins with a face value of $20-$50 for an ounce of silver? Wouldn’t that be a cool coin to collect? What are the chances a coin like that would be popular enough to supplant paper money at least partially? Also, what would the effect be on the populace of actually holding and spending REAL money vs. pieces of paper?

  122. Sith says

    @jhawk92 – Gainesville stopped selling the ATBs. Providence announced they would stop due to quality issues but because of the backlash they announced they would keep selling them.

  123. Jon in CT says

    So, I’ve continued to research the availability of pressure sensitive kraft tape because I, too, am interested in buying some packaging tape which is suitable for use on packages sent via USPS Registered Mail. And I believe I’ve found a strong, inexpensive, readily available option,

    It is packaged for and sold by U-Haul and is called Box/Packaging tape. It is 1.88″ wide and is available in lengths of 30 yards (Product # 30T – $2.79) and 55 yards (Product # 55T – $3.85). Details are at:

    You should be able to simply walk in and buy this tape from any U-Haul location near you which carries “Moving Supplies” (most locations). At worst, you can order it online and pay for shipping directly to your home.

    This tape is manufactured for U-Haul by Intertape Polymer Group (AKA: IPG, Intertape, itape.com). I believe it is a consumer-packaged version of IPG’s 534 tape, which IPG describes as:

    A moisture resistant kraft flatback paper tape with an aggressive, pressure-sensitive natural/synthetic rubber adhesive. Designed to offer a positive, attractive seal and excellent adhesion to minimize carton sealing failures and prevent pilferage. Considered by many as the “Industry Standard.” Excellent balance of machine and cross direction tensile and tear strength. Remains strong under moist conditions. Approved as packaging tape by U.S. Postal Service and U.P.S. (United Parcel Service). Product is not repulpable. Can be used with carton sealing, packaging, silk screening, picture framing, beaming/leasing, splicing, and tabbing.

    I purchased a 55 yd roll of this tape today from my local U-Haul store. This is my last comment on this subject. I promise.

  124. Jon in CT says

    MarkH wrote on August 24, 2014 at 11:07 AM:

    I noticed the Canadians produce coins with a face value that reflects the value of the metal they’re made of. What if the U.S. mint were to produce circulating silver coins with a face value of $20-$50 for an ounce of silver? Wouldn’t that be a cool coin to collect? What are the chances a coin like that would be popular enough to supplant paper money at least partially? Also, what would the effect be on the populace of actually holding and spending REAL money vs. pieces of paper?

    Let’s say the US tried to bring in a silver coin with one troy ounce of silver and a face value of $20. I expect you would observe ,within a few years when the price of silver inevitably rises above $20/ounce, the operation of Gresham’s Law in action.

    Gresham’s Law — The proposition that money which is more valuable than its official exchange rate will disappear from circulation: “bad money chases out the good.”

  125. MarkH says

    Jon in CT-OK, let’s say $50. Or $100. Something that would have a chance to stay ahead of the silver price. It’s been done before, after all. I can’t help it that our country prints too many promises.

  126. Jon in CT says

    MarkH wrote on August 24, 2014 at 12:46 PM:

    Jon in CT-OK, let’s say $50. Or $100. Something that would have a chance to stay ahead of the silver price. It’s been done before, after all.

    You are thinking of the time before Congress handed over to the Federal Reserve its constitutional responsibility of establishing the value of a dollar. The Federal Reserve is on record as stating that it sees inflation as a good thing and will do everything it can think of to insure that inflation happens in the future.

  127. cagcrisp says

    I have said before that this is the best Coin Blog. I read on Another blog that Labels were NOT coming down. Here is One Simple search on the bay for “2014 kennedy gold ana chicago 70”. I broke it down between the Last 7 Days and the First 7 Days.

    Last 7 Days “2014 kennedy gold ana chicago 70” (08/16-08/22)
    Average sale price $2,681.84
    Min price $2,400.00
    Max price $4,005.55
    Item count 37

    First 7 Days “2014 kennedy gold ana chicago 70” (08/09-08/15)
    Average sale price $3,192.58
    Min price $2,650.00
    Max price $4,550.00
    Item count 61

  128. MN says

    I searched for “self adhesive brown kraft tape” and found a lot of sites including eBay that have this type of tape. Some advertise it as printable kraft tape. Amazon has buyer reviews on it and I had read about the U-Haul type.

  129. Louis says

    Thanks, MN. I found one on Amazon with free shipping if you have Prime that seems like it will work since it is made of paper so it can be postmarked.

  130. says

    Jon in CT, You are absolutely right, in fact, if I’m not mistaken the Fed’s present level of inflation is somewhere around two points lower than what the Fed wants. If you will recall, the President was out on the road not long ago talking about pay raises, can’t have inflation with a pay raise! One of the first things I learned about economics was that a weaker dollar increased exports, which was good, but not good for the poor who are barely able to buy enough food to eat. It’s simply the way our economy is deigned to work, it must grow exponentially.

  131. Jon in CT says

    fmtransmitter wrote August 24, 2014 at 4:23 PM:

    Just popped in, scrolled up and saw nothing but Jon’s comments…Left…

    If only that were true. But your logorrhea got the better of you, as usual, and you just had to leave behind yet another inane comment. 🙄

  132. GoldFishin says

    @Dustyroads- excerpt from the WSJ about the Fed’s inflation policy. I am not disagreeing with you, just adding some info.


    The fed has done everything in its power to suppress real inflation numbers. The higher inflation goes the more they have to pay out in COLA for all federal benefits that receive the “Cost Of Living Allowance” like social security, disability, veteran and federal workers retirement benefits just to name a few. They have established a 2% target which at least on record say they do not want to exceed, but they believe some inflation is good for the economy. In reality inflation helps to finance our massive national debt by increasing the amount of dollars that it takes to purchase goods and services, thereby partially masking the number of dollars created out of thin air by the Fed’s print at all cost policies. Conversely, this is why the Fed is petrified of deflation and would rather artificially create the illusion of demand rather than deal in reality.
    Of course, the last couple of sentences are just my take. Anyone is free to drink the koolaid if they choose to.

    I would add, just ask some of our veterans or seniors on this blog site if they feel their COLA increases are really keeping up with the increases in living expenses. That is, when they receive a COLA increase. There have been several years when the COLA calculation has shown no increase is due.

    All this gets back to the original question by MarkH of the U.S. minting circulating silver coinage that would actually be worth something. Sorry Mark, never going to happen until things get much, much worse, and even then they will fight it kicking and screaming. But, it is a possibility that at some point the government would decide to back our currency by a basket of commodities that may include gold and silver, maybe natural gas and oil, just to name a few. But I don’t see that happening anytime soon.

  133. Wes says

    Received my Kennedy uncirculated set yesterday. I feel like I got a good set. D has a two small hairline scratches under the shield. There is one small hard to see without magnification scratch on the obverse side. The better coin by far is the P. I think it would get a MS-69 or better if I were to send it in. I always keep coins in OGP but if no 70’s show up after they stop selling I may give this coin a try. I actually think if it came back less than a 69 that the coin was switched or damaged by them. There is something in the capsule on the rim of the coin looks like a sliver of plastic or something but it’s not a hair.

  134. Hidalgo says

    I noticed that the high relief 2014 Kennedy half P and D coins are graded as “SP.” Does anyone know why?

    I realize that the finish looks different than the “regular strike” Kennedy halves. However, the US Mint calls the commemorative P and D coins “uncirculated.”

  135. MarkH says

    GF-I agree with you that barring a return to a PM-backed currency we won’t get silver circulating coins again…it was just a “what if”.
    As to the Fed stuff all I will say is I am a regular reader of Zerohedge, Milesfranklin, shadowstats, and David Stockman’s contra blog. A quick perusal of those websites will give you all the reasons in the world to be in PMs or coins. And hey, coins are much more fun than equities.


  136. says

    GoldFishin, I thought I heard Mrs. chairman state a desired 3% rate of inflation. If that’s incorrect, it would explain why the rate sounds so outrageous. I think most of us can agree that as expansion in the economy occurs higher inflation will be present and we may have to begin importing food from other nations. Not something we need to happen!

  137. Mark Rex says

    Anyone have any news or updates on the sold out – not sold out 2013 Mint Set and 2013 Ann UNC Dollars Set? Links or anything? The first time they said the 2013 Mint Set sold out I bought a few as did others has the weekly sales shown. Surely the same thing happened again. So is this just some false hype being produced by the US Mint to clear out some inventory to reduce loss or some kind of error by an employee. I still think the 2013 Mint Set is a good buy as it still the lowest by 25k units based on the last report.

    Update on my JFK gold coins. Received my 2 orders of 1x JFK gold halves on 8/13 (which had to be the first day anyone got their gold halves that ordered online with UPS taking 1 day to deliever) . Sent them back via USPS Priority Mail insured for $2.5k for a cost of $44 total. Put both orders into same box which included 2 JFK golds, 2 return forms marked refund, printed letter stating package contained 2 orders each for refund, desire for shipping reinbursement (as told to by CSR supervisor) and a copy of shipping label receipt that showed cost. USPS showed they signed for it on 8/20 10am. They haven’t even told me they got it yet and nothing’s changed online.

  138. GoldFishin says

    @Mark Rex – my JFK’s were returned the same day and nothing has updated on the US Mint web site with mine either. I called them on Friday and they confirmed they had been received back. It can take up to a week for you to see something online at the website, so I wouldn’t worry about it just yet. Call customer service tomorrow and ask them about it.

  139. Sith says

    @Jon in CT – Those coins that the RCM is selling are not for circulation.

    @MarkH – Those coins do not reflect the silver content they reflect the face value…IE your getting a $20 Candian coin for $20…it happens to be made of silver. IE you can’t lose your money…ASE sell for the silver content but have a face value of $1…The Canadian coins have just under $10 worth of silver at the current spot price.

  140. Sith says

    MarkH – I read an interesting article years ago about Mexico introducing silver coinage again (same rumor came up a couple of years ago.) The interesting thing was that the Mexican government declined to do so because the coins would be horded. This is along the same lines why the 1965 Peace dollar was melted. The interesting part of the article was it was a big so what, the Casa de Moneda being able to mint the coins, and with the price of silver being cheap at the time (this was a few years back) and Mexico one of the greatest producers of silver it would have been a minimum cost to produce the coins, and it would have preserved the purchasing power of those that got the coins. The point being no central bank cares about preserving the populations purchasing power, even at minimum\no cost.

  141. Eagle One says

    The NGC ER window officially closed today for the HR Clad Kennedy Sets and it officially closes for the PCGS FS on Monday. Just curious to where the mintage is currently at for these sets now. 120K?

  142. jhawk92 says

    Sorry about being away for a few days. This is a great blog!

    I will certainly continue/complete my set of P pucks in OGP. I started in the hope I could finish, but was worried with the 2010 versions as expensive as they were. Now I wish I could “pre-order” at the Mint for at least a couple years out. I’d gladly give them money for the next few years’ worth of pucks if I could lock in today’s prices. I don’t think silver will go much lower, so it would be a relative bargain if it were possible.

    Ok, I forgive you on the FS/ER label on the pucks. 🙂 I’ve not done extensive research, but I have a hard time finding DMPL coins without the FS label. I guess in this instance, it might not be all bad, especially if you can get a full year’s worth of coins from a dealer. Like you said, seeing the low price of silver makes me want to go out for more. Tough call whether to stack private mint bars for not much over spot, or get something like the bullion pucks, and pay a little more. And I will certainly continue my subscription for a P-puck for as long as the mint will let me buy at the discount.

    I appreciate the info. I’m not sure I’ve even seen a MS67 or so puck, but maybe they are out there. I have seen MS68s. Thanks for the link to that auction. I will keep an eye out for sets like that going forward. It is certainly an easier way to collect a full year’s worth that way and likely save on shipping. In looking at some other eBay auctions, ones with good clear big pictures, those DMPL pucks do look pretty spectacular. Well, maybe I just need to go chase!

    That’s right, I forgot about Gainesville. I do see Provident continuing to sell them, but with the disclaimer up front, so everyone is warned there.

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