2015 American Liberty HR Gold: First Day Sales Total and Back-Order Date


The U.S. Mint has provided an update on yesterday’s frenzied launch of the 2015 American Liberty High Relief Gold Coin.

News spread fast yesterday after the mint’s standing inventory of around 35,000 American Liberty coins–each priced at $1,490.00–was exhausted after just a few hours. Now the mint confirms that first day sales of the release totaled 36,686 units.

The West Point Mint will continue working to produce enough coins to complete the 50,000-piece mintage.

Back orders are currently being accepted. A mock attempt to order the coin on the mint’s Web site shows that the new batch is expected to become available on October 1.

The 2015 American Liberty is the first $100 gold coin ever made by the U.S. Mint. It is composed of 99.99% gold, weighs one ounce, and measures 1.205 inches in diameter. For more information, visit the U.S. Mint’s page for the 2015 American Liberty High Relief Gold Coin.

Update: The U.S. Mint’s Lateefah Simms has shared more specifics on yesterday’s sale:

  • MyUSMint, the U.S. Mint mobile app launched just a couple of weeks ago, took in over $500,000 in sales yesterday.  
  • 5,231 orders were placed during the first ten minutes of sales–a rate of 8.72 orders per second.
  • The U.S. Mint took orders for more than 30,000 2015 American Liberty HR Gold Coins in the first seventy-five minutes of sales, not including credit card holds or order holds.

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  1. fmtransmitter says

    Glad it was a popular coin. I suspect it will make a great gift for some people and the gold bugs out there. Wife’s saw Lady Liberty and gave the thumbs up to Hubbies to make the buy, we know they wanted it for the Eagle..(wink)

  2. jj says

    over 73% gone in first day, wonder how long it will take to sell out now – another week?

  3. cagcrisp says

    Orders have Slowed to very little. May take a Long time to Sell the remaining stock…

  4. Goat says

    Mine shipped ! Still has the triangle , that’s O.K. the Mint can put what ever they want on Order Summary page .
    Shipped can’t wait to see it .

  5. Jeff says

    Well I have to say looks like a great launch, I am suspicious the story has not played out fully. I also believe it will take a very long time for a sellout. Once these hit the secondary market will be just like the Kennedy you can buy below mint prices all day long.

  6. gary says

    @Cagcrisp… it seems that my guess for first week sales was a tad underweight at 26,325. I am still of the feeling that after bogus CC orders have been eliminated, double billings, cancellations (before shipment) of the faint-of-heart, big speculator cancellations and the usual physical returns of delivered coins, it may show 1st week sales around 30K
    I realize that Ebay sales are only one barometer of aftermarket value but there is really not much activity in real sales and yet more listings pile up. By contrast, the JFK gold got much more sales activity (albeit exorbitantly priced for a current selling Mint issue).

  7. ClevelandRocks says

    Flippers are going to get burned.
    Way too many offerings with scant sales. Wait less than 2 weeks for the new flavored trinket (RP Ike clad) and the reality will set in, especially if ’15 HR not really sold out by then.

  8. Goat says

    Have to ask , you stated ” E bay sales are only one barometer of aftermarket value ”
    Is there other ways to view activity/price from home ? I know coin shows/TV but just looking for new ways .
    I read/chart prices a lot from E bay . E bay has helped me the most for current and past coins . Just don’t want to miss an opportunity .
    Not to forget ; all you that has helped in the past .

  9. gary says

    @Cleveland… I’m in for 2 of the Ike trinket to help pay for my ATB “P” Mint sets for this year.
    If there is no meaningful movement of real sales on Ebay for the 2015 HR over the upcoming weekend those speculators about to get delivery next week may start to panic. Especially those with some big orders and money in this game. Right now I see flippers getting burnt and some heavy speculators really torched.

  10. gary says

    @Goat… I really don’t know of another viable market to measure interest. Sorry.
    But those TV coin shows are so unabashedly overhyped with half-truths & misinformation and 0% credibility.
    But if you paid some attention to Cagcrisp’s updates of the flow and ebb of sales there is much to be gleaned from his numbers. (LOL, Cagcrisp… how about the accolade of “Data” for ya? (Just kidding!)

  11. Ikaika says

    December would have been an ideal month for the HR release. One unique product after another takes a toll on our pockets.

  12. ClevelandRocks says

    @Gary, I have no interest in RP clad trinkets but they are semi-real coins and for less than $60/ coin seems reasonable. I don’t know anyone that can spend $1500 on a PC gold trinket since they can’t find something better to do with their $1500. Hope the PC gender and racially neutral obverse dies with the coin.

  13. cagcrisp says

    @gary, I still think you have a chance to be the winner of the Guesstimate Contest. The Sunday’s numbers just has to be ≤ 38,162. There will be some Orders Cancelled. Also the Mint’s weekly numbers have been lacking in accuracy at times. They may just choose to delay reporting the cancellations until a later period…

  14. mattarch says

    I am guessing gold prices are going lower, so will wait and buy a PR69 next year when gold prices hit $900. If gold prices go back up, then it will be the gold mercury dime next year. Win-win for me either way.

  15. says

    Ikaika says “One unique product after another takes a toll on our pockets.” – & it’s towards the end of summer, when most non-retirees are squeezing in late summer vacation plans and thinking beach and packing up the cooler.., not $1,500 gold purchases.., can’t think of a worse time to attempt to flip a high dollar coin, IMO.

    On the bay at the moment, there is:

    49 – listed
    5 – Sold
    1 – In Hand

  16. The Real "Cool" Brad says

    @CleavelandRocks I understand not liking the coin. I personally could care less about it. I just don’t get why you keep saying it’s pc and gender neutral. Do we have to have an anatomy lesson to explain how you determine the difference between girls and boys. It’s clearly depicting a female. Race isn’t very clear, but would it make you happier if they made it more clear? Are you against racially integration and mixed race people? I don’t understand why you keep saying this like it’s a negative.

  17. gary says

    I do see a Lib HR (in hand) with actual photos of the actual coin you’ll get. It’s listed for a mere $1899 and NO RETURN permitted.
    @Cag… well maybe the winner in a game of horseshoes but I’ll still be way off by about 5K (which is a lot).
    As to the Mint’s weekly reports… following mintages is much like watching a yo-yo on many items. The 2014 ATB “P” 5 oz. have mostly just stalled & meandered for weeks if not months. Would not be surprised to see them go sold out sometime in August.

  18. Joe #2 says

    I think they did a good job on Ms. Liberty… Young and slender… I don’t know about anyone else here, But i’m getting tired of seeing the same old queen on the others…lol

  19. hilo says

    Does anyone here collect vintage coins, or is that dieing ? Ill keep mine for now…..

  20. says

    Gary, per your recommendation, I went back to Aug ’14 and read up – yes, profound similarities. Then I checked recent sales from mid-June thru July 2015 for RP Buff, BHoFs, and gold JFKs.., and what a compelling story that tells.

    36,000 sold of a $1,490 coin on day one is preposterous. And I am truly glad that our fellow collectors out here on MNB bought the coin for their collection and for a love of the design which I’m sure they’ll truly cherish as the big boys are screwing up this offering.

    I recant what I said yesterday, I’m now in on this coin. The fun for me starts shortly as I’ll be chasing a few auctions from mid-August up through 30 November.

    ClevelandRocks, we see very much eye to eye on this one, and WRT “Flippers are going to get burned,” that is why my Goal will be $220 below mint release price, Stretch Goal of $290 below. If I’m successful, I’ll report when it happens or 30 November. Good luck All!

  21. gary says

    Next week look out for listings of the 2015 HR slabs with the erroneous “First Strike MS70 Proof-Like”, (actually the result of being struck from worn dies!) The TPG graders are going to perpetuate the Proof-Like myth started with the 2009 Ultra High Relief. The Proof-Like holy grail will be the pinnacle of the swindle on the 2015 gold HR.

  22. thePhelps says

    KCSO… with 36,500 sold and 12,500 buyers… there are a lot of flippers available to try and make money on a “coin” that already had $400 dolalrs adjusted to the base value. I see a lot of burn coming – while there were a few here who posted they bought the coin – there were a lot of others here who were on the sidelines.

    The “coin” is nice enough looking – but in and of itself it isn’t that impressive and really not worth the money to me. Of the hundreds of thousands of people who collect coins…. they got 12,500 to purchase this one…

  23. mark says

    After looking at the in hand pictures on the bay. Must say coin looks kinda odd. Glad I passed on this one.

  24. jj says

    @hilo – yes, planning on getting some more vintage stuff soon – currently looking for a nice 3-cent silver from new orleans. big fan of half cents as well.

  25. Brian says

    Wasn’t there supposed to be a silver medal version of this same Liberty coin? Anyone know what happened to that?

  26. says

    thePhelps – thanks, I so agree

    To the Blog – hey guys, I’m not bashing this coin and the mint’s attempt to offer something unique, I’m really not.

    What I care about is the health (and Current trends) of the hobby, and future collector base, period.

    The mint will hail this as a HUGE success.. and rightfully so. $45 MILLION in revenue in half a day, big success.

    But 30,000 sold of $1,490 coin in 90 minutes is preposterous.., do your homework, look at historical trends, and YOU WILL agree. This thing has already “flatlined” due to the speculation.

    The dealers, big boys, and flippers have once again ruined any potential numismatic value that otherwise could have been gained from this offering. That is what has my panties in a bunch with the sales number. This is another dog that will languish for years and while I’d rather would have rather rallied around it.., in 10 years you’d be better off socking $1,500 in the S&P. Sorry, I sometimes can’t disconnect from this being a hobby and the investment side of it. Last I’ll speak.., though what is transpiring has played a out of few times before in the last several years. Buy it ’cause you like it, and thank the flipper and retailers for screwing up the mintage!

    Have a great weekend, KCSO

  27. Scott says

    Unfortunately the obverse of this “coin” doesn’t look any better in the actual photos than it did in the mint illustrations. That obverse design is still seriously sub-par IMHO. In a year you will probably be able to buy one of these for $100 bucks over spot or maybe even less.

  28. HarryB says

    @Dusty: the high relief does make this coin. In hand in the sunlight it is most impressive. A little shiner than an unc First Spouse or Commerative, but compairs well next to my 09 UHR. I am pleased.

  29. ClevelandRocks says

    It’s a PC, gender and race neutral gold trinket. Google “St Gaudens” and look at he image of the full figured woman with flowing hair with her gloried movement and then compare to this short-haired stick figure PC mess.

  30. gary says

    LOL @ Cleveland… you are not that far away. Take a drive over to West Point NY and throw a few rocks at the building! LMAO
    The reverse of the coin has a great eagle but to me the obverse is a mediocre expression of Liberty in a truly awkward pose.

  31. Ends in Error says

    I feel better about these modern bullion coins than I do about paying something like $20,000 for an old Quarter with rainbow silver sulfide on the edges of the thing. At least with fresh bullion from the mint you only loose maybe a couple hundred.

    With that old hyped stuff you stand to be the last one holding a nuclear hott potatoe. Ouch !

  32. stephen m says

    gary, I’m not sure what you mean by “a truly awkward pose”. Please explain.

  33. mark says

    The bay is getting loaded up with these. There will be lots of returns if these don’t start selling for the asking price. Looks like all buy it nows. Come on …somebody do a true no reserve auction.

  34. Ends in Error says

    My top bid in an open auction w / Original packaging would be $100 below issue.

    At issue price I’ll take a fresh one from the Mint.


  35. Louis says

    I don’t get why 37K sales on day 1 is “preposterous”? In what way? The 2009 UHR, which was minted to demand, so there was no rush on day 1 and no one could have known on day 1 there would be shipping delays,
    was very hard to order until the end of the day and sold 28K that day. Also, we simply have no way of knowing how sales broke down between collectors and dealers at this point. In addition, many dealers are already selling this through through own stores and sites and not through eBay. Just while writing this I received another dealer e-mail offering 70’s for delivery in a week. That is where the sales are ocurring.

    Finally, why do several of you keep alluding to some kind of dark conspiracy involving the dealers and to KSCO’s point, how did they ruin it? Would it have been better if they bought less? Was it difficult to order because dealers placed large orders?

    Instead of projecting our desires, fears, anecdotal impressions and such, why not just chill out and let’s see what happens? Why the rush to judge. condemn, etc. If dealers messed up and over-bought, then there will be great deals. If not, this coin may just do well. Personally, my shorts are not bunched up at all, though perhaps I am happy to see Ms. Liberty, so you never know.

  36. A different Jeff says

    An interesting metric would be to have the shipping method reported – how many opted for standard, express and overnight. This will give the real story about flipping vs. collecting.

  37. HarryB says

    @Clevelandrocks. Sorry Dude, never sold a coin on eBay, but have bought lots there, my one and only account name is craighb, look me up. Some day I will have to figure out how to sell all the Mint products I have purchased since 06. I usually enjoy your posts, so I hope your outlook improves. I like to know who I am buying from, I feel I could trust posters here as sellers, but there is no way to connect the screen names here with eBay.

  38. HarryB says

    @A different Jeff. I chose the express shipping for this release, as I will be traveling next week and not here for delivery attempts. My actual experience was overnight, plus it appears mine was shipped faster than others.

  39. thePhelps says

    Louis…I think the point is collectors didn’t go all in on the coin as it appears by the volume of coins sold. There is no way collectors bought the majority of these coins – the big players are the majority owners of them for resell.

    It is simple math – 36,000 coins sold and 12-15,000 buyers. The average collector would have gotten maybe 2 coins – most who posted here purchased 1. That leaves about 20,000 coins in the hands of resellers. I think it is fair to say that isn’t exactly a collectors bonanza of buying.

    The major difference between the 2009 mint to demand and this offering is there was a window to purchase coins here – you had 50,000 on the market and it is gone. Mint to demand meant you didn’t need to buy them all at once – you could purchase as you needed – when you needed. Completely different buying scenarios.

  40. thePhelps says

    Also for those wondering why I find the Liberty image a bit odd… try holding your arm in the way that she is posed… to say it is awkward and unnatural isn’t exactly heaping praise on an artist.

  41. ClevelandRocks says

    Louis, this is no true Liberty!

    As I mentioned:
    “It’s a PC, gender and race neutral gold trinket. Google “St Gaudens” and look at he image of the full figured woman with flowing hair with her gloried movement and then compare to this short-haired stick figure PC mess.”

  42. GoldFishin says

    @Louis- KCSO likes to think out loud and bounce ideas off of others. I don’t see anything really to be upset over, it is just one opinion of many. He had also shown the ability to adapt to to what is happening in real time, so I think all is well, don’t take things so personal. It is very obvious if you crunch the numbers that dealers purchased over half of all coins sold yesterday, but there was also very strong sales from buy and hold collectors.
    We way outsold opening day revenue for the ’13 RP Buffalo yesterday which is saying something. I used that in my calculations as a reference for the guesstimate game, but I never expected the HR coin to have opening days sales that would exceed the sales of the Buffalo, in fact I calculated what I thought would be a very strong 70% of sales that the ’13 Buffalo had in revenue, I think the $100 recent price drop had a lot to with it. I know it did for me. I have been shopping non bullion proof or unc gold and it gets more difficult to find a moderate mintage 1 troy oz. coin for less than $1400 and the HR coin is not far from that price point, with a potential for some upside maybe. Time will tell. 😉

  43. Zaz says

    Reverse scenario of the RP Buff– got burnt on that one two years ago so learnt to sit this one out. The Mint got the numbers they wanted first day, but it is a train wreck in the making residually if the coin fails to ignite on the secondary market. There will be at least 40,000 of these if the Mint mints the remaining in batches of 5,000, which for a special release is way too many. Now that the high volume flippers and TV guys have first in and first out, this coin should follow the trajectory of the gold Kennedy and trickle out of Memphis in fits and starts. At least the RP Buff was a coin I wanted even though I has no premium today above what I paid. Live and learn.

  44. GoldFishin says

    @Dusty- Thanks for the pics. **** that reverse is stunning!
    When I have mine graded, I am thinking about asking for the Reverse be displayed on the front side. The reverse is stunning, but the the obverse doesn’t match the same elegance in my opinion and doesn’t really pair well with the reverse. Traditional vs Modern. Will wait until I see it in hand and decide. Only 1 keeper for me, hoping to score a MS70 and that’s it.

  45. gary says

    @Stephen… what makes the Liberty pose awkward to me (and apparently also to thePhelps 6:06 post above) is most notably Liberty’s right arm holding the torch. The bicep would not overlap the upper arm in that perspective viewpoint as it shows on the coin, especially with how the wrist will need to make a natural rotation to grasp the torch. The artist was attempting to foreshorten the perspective to make the torch seem like it is coming forward but it just doesn’t work. The hands should have been more delicately modeled as feminine. The hands are oversized and thick and out of scale with the arms. Liberty’s left arm looks very flat and not well executed. More of a graceful line flow in her wardrobe, instead of the boring vertical lines below her waist would give more expressive vitality to her. The “LIBERTY” lettering is much to large and distracts from the composition. Other than that, hey, Paul Balan did a real bees-knees job with the Eagle Reverse.

  46. Louis says

    @GF- Nothing in my post suggests I am upset. Quite the opposite as I stated explicitly at the end with the play on KSCO’s mention that his panties were in a wad.

  47. The Real "Cool" Brad says

    I didn’t like the coins drawing. Thought the digital rendering was just okay. Seeing the photos, I think I like it. The liberty is youthful and well designed, almost 3d. I like how her face juts out over her neck. I think the mint did a great job actually. Sure is nontraditional, but it’s pleasing too the eye

  48. Ikaika says

    If any of the great folks here have received their HR coin, please post some comments regarding the coin. Mine will arrive sometime in Oct.

  49. GoldFishin says

    @FM- when you have a chance make yourself available. I have some very exciting news for you!!

  50. Dustyroads says

    I love the thicker looking rim. I was somewhat concerned that the slightly smaller diameter would be a drawback, but it looks full to say the least.

    Yes, the reverse eagle is stunning, and detail in the feathers looks sharp.
    I think the modern Liberty has a chance, especially considering the new collectors that have come of age since the big economic meltdown and skyrocketing PM’s getting the attention of more than the average plethora size of new comers. My father had something to do with me becoming a collector, but `08 really opened my eyes to the volatility of precious metals. Then from there I naturally found my way to numismatics. It should also be a safer investment if you are at all worried that the Government may someday again make bullion ownership illegal.

  51. G says

    As William Goldman said about Hollywood: “nobody knows anything.” It’s not priced at spot but it also doesn’t have the crazy price of some of the 1 oz world gold coins. I have a hunch that when people buy this coin, they are doing so because they like it, and with an ounce of gold, the built in downside factor is pretty low compared to the multitude of $150 dollar silver coins.

  52. GoldFishin says

    @Dusty says- ” It should also be a safer investment if you are at all worried that the Government may someday again make bullion ownership illegal.”

    Sometimes, I have a tendency to overthink things. Well, most of the time….but this is the reason I try to buy either older classic gold or US Mint modern proof or unc. gold coins. It would be very difficult to come after collector coins, especially when they were bought from the issuing government. Since, we are not on the gold standard any more, I am hoping that there will never be a repeat of 1933 again.

  53. Boz says

    How many sacabucks can I get instead of just one skinny gold nymph, 100? With gold dropping to $300 I am saving up now to invest in brass! Then I will flip my sacabucks and buy the $300 skinny gold girl or some more special dimes later on. I still say the special dimes will be shown by history o have been the best buys of 2015.

  54. Tom P. - MA says

    As usual I was wrong about the sales even though I didn’t give real numbers. The big question is, is this another Kennedy issue or is it a real rarity.

    Boz you flip from sarcastic to serious. The “special” dimes may turn out to be one of the best buys of 2015. Gold is dropping but $300 is just silly.

  55. says

    GoldFishin said:
    Sometimes, I have a tendency to overthink things.

    You’re too funny.. Actually, you have a tendency to exaggerate your skilz.

  56. ABC says

    Well, I might be in the minority here. I like the design of the obverse more than the reverse. I don’t think she is anorexic. Maybe I’m biased but I think skinny women are more attractive. It really isn’t fair to compare this coin to the gold Kennedy or even the RP Buffalo. The gold Kennedy, even though it’s the first time the Kennedy half was done in gold, is not a unique design. So, if you didn’t want to buy the Kennedy gold, you had the option to buy the same design in silver or clad. As for the RP Buffalo, even though it was a reverse proof, the design was still the same as the other buffaloes and there was no mintage limit; giving the perception that enough was minted to satisfy demand. This American Liberty has a few things going for it. It has a unique design, it’s the first $100 gold coin, and it’s only the second U.S. Mint product to have the high relief quality.

  57. Broooster says

    For those keeping track, my 12:15 order for 1 coin has shipped. Received an email today at 5:30 PM. I would like to add that as a collector, I would rather buy a fresh, from the mint coin, than a picked over coin that has been sitting in someone’s smoke filled house for months. I am kind of picky about keeping my coinsand packaging just so. No flipping here, Buy hey, thats just me.

  58. GoldFishin says

    @Dusty- Don’t think I didn’t see where you threw “plethora” in a previous post! 🙂

  59. The Real "Cool" Brad says

    ABC I agree, the eagle is pretty great but the liberty on the front is nice to look at too

  60. Dustyroads says

    Of course, love that word!

    BTW, I think I have a pretty good idea of what kind of person you are, and you’re nothing like what Mr. squeezebox would have you think. dnftt

  61. ABC says

    If the mint ever decided to make a Kendall Jenner coin, I’m definitely going to pick it up as she is one sexy woman. I’ll buy the gold, silver, clad, and platinum versions.

  62. Piotr says

    I’m disappointed that the mint decided to cancel the production of high relief silver. I hope they will rethink their strategy as I can’t afford this offering. Maybe it will just show up like 15RA.

  63. Barry says

    quick fyi= Rowdy Roddy Piper died yesterday. Anyone who watched WWF wrestling should know the name. I thought he was entertaining.

  64. Tinto says


    Saw him in “They Live” , he was entertaining in the movie but I didn’t really follow wrestling though …

  65. NDJAY says

    2015 Coin & Chronicles Set – John F. Kennedy This product will be available for sale on September 16, 2015, at 12 noon (ET).
    They moved it back a day. Must be to make the other 25,000.

  66. VA Bob says

    thePhelps – The same scenario you apply to the HR could also be applied to the 2014 American C & C. How many collectors bought that coin directly from the Mint? Seems plenty of people here were buying large quantities to sell, but to whom? If there are no collectors to sell them to, who buys? Is it any worse when the big dealers do what the small time flippers can’t afford to do? Not in my opinion. Sure there is a price difference, but a grab is a grab.

    I wish all those holding out for a lower price the best of luck. I wish I knew someone that wants to buy at a high price, just to turn around and sell at a low price a few weeks later. I commend them on their philanthropy. I’d never pay Mint prices again if that were the norm.

    I expect the HR sales to slow. Just like every other gold coin the Mint sells. Will it sell out before years end? Don’t know, don’t care. Would like to know the value 20 years or so from now. Can anyone tell me? Unless one is selling tomorrow on ebay, that information is useless. If your in for the long haul, no need to obsess about short term prices.

    My order shipped on the 31st and will arrive on Tuesday, from a 1210 order.

  67. hw says


    The 2015-P $1 Harry S. Truman Rev PR PCGS PR 70 population has increased to 50 or about 4.8% of the total graded. For some reason, NGC has not published its statistics yet. Maybe they’ll do it in the next century if they can get off their butts..

  68. thePhelps says

    VA Bob… similar? The 2014 C&C was basically unannounced by the mint. It slipped out and many here were the first to even know it existed, and also were the first to know it was an enhanced coin in the set. Very little fanfare and of course many here snatched it up – it was $14. Only after it sold out did it really become a hot commodity.

    This 2015 Liberty has been hyped by the mint for almost a year. I guess I see your point.

  69. VA Bob says

    Hyped by the Mint? No more than any other coin. I realize the differences between the coins, but the mechanics of the opening sales were similar. The American C & C sold about >9K sets before it first became unavailable (then released multiple times later). The properties (enhanced) of the coin were known. If I recall correctly the Native American woman was also said by some to have large hands, too (in other words, a nothing special design). This coin was in demand for it’s finish, not it’s design. Sure the lower mintage attracted some buyers, but it would have sold out all the same if they made 50K, as it would have still been one of the low mintages for a SAC’s. So why wouldn’t an HR show some demand (despite flaws, real or perceived)? Especially, since the last HR came out 94 years ago?

  70. a Bob says

    I was thisclose to buying one but I will pick this up later. I think there will be a price drop AND a lot of returns.

    Maybe the 2015 C&C set coming out of West Pont will help with quality control. I sold several 2014 D sets to a dealer that stopped sending them in for certification because he was not getting any 70s. I don’t subscribe to the population reports but am interested in knowing the breakdown.

  71. Erik H says

    a Bob, I have only seen one Enhanced Sac graded 70 by PCGS. I don’t think NGC has graded any 70.

  72. gary says


    THIS has to be the worst execution of the Ultra High Relief medium I have ever seen in a precious metal coin by a world mint (Pobjoy). But you might want it to fill out your JFK collection:


  73. Ikaika says

    @ Gary

    Wow. The seller has a starting bid of ONLY 5K for a one ounce platinum coin. Good luck to him, lol.

  74. Tinto says


    Thanks for the link. I saw the photos but they didn’t change my mind so I’m still holding on to my money. As I have limited income now, I’d rather spend on the RP Prez C&C and the Sac C&C and save up for the gold offerings in 2016.

  75. Larry says

    I like the coin, but there is only so much cash to go around. Buying two each of the five coins and chronicles sets with the RP dollars will cost around $600.00. Then throw in the “P” pucks and some others and it is a big chunk of change. I resisted temptation because of next years gold dime, quarter and half. Those I really want, although I am still hoping they do a silver proof version.
    After last years Kennedy debacle, it is hard to believe that a bunch of dealers rushed out to buy this hoping for a quick flip, especially since gold seems to be in a bear market. They are usually pretty smart cookies, and are not in business to loose money.
    The exception could be the TV hucksters, as they seem to be able to sell anything at a high price. Maybe the HSN guy bought 5000, I wouldn’t put it past him.
    I have a feeling most of the sales went to collectors that really want the coin. I can’t blame them, it is a nice coin.

  76. says

    O.K., let’s look at this $1,490 coin offering from another perspective. The current price of of an ATB 5 oz. P is $149.95, which means that a buyer can get 10 ATB’s for the price of one HR relief Lady Liberty. That’s 50 ounces of silver vs. one ounce of gold.
    What would you choose if given the choice of one or the other?

  77. Ikaika says

    @ Louis

    Thank you for your article. Very informative as usual. The only thing I am not so sure is the assessment of the demand for modern liberty coins. If indeed dealers purchased most of the coins, wouldn’t that tell us there was less interest from collectors? For many years I have been asking: Who is really buying most of the mints products?

  78. mark says

    Now we have some true auctions going on the bay. Ms70s and ogp. Have a feeling someone will loose money. After ebay/pp and shipping fees.

  79. Louis says

    Ikaika- I understand but my point is we don’t know for sure yet how the demand broke down. For now it is what you might call informed speculation that dealers bough 2/3 or so. As Larry said, you have to figure the dealers would not want to risk getting burned again.

  80. Mike in NY says

    @Louis Another great article. We are fortunate to have a contributor of your caliber on this blog. Now if we could have you take over where michael left off we would be all set.

    I missed the initial order time for the HR because I was in flight on a business trip. Ordered one yesterday around 9 AM that shows back ordered with date of 10/1. Hoping I got my order in on time and don’t get an email later telling me I missed out.

  81. Louis says

    Re: fees, keep in mind that not only do eBay stores pay less (6 vs. 9% on coins) but if like me you are a top rated seller they further discount your fees 2%. And some people only take checks so no Paypal. In theory you could be paying as little as 4% total.

  82. says

    Let’s also look at next year’s Mint offering of a gold mercury dime, standing Liberty quarter and walker half set. You can opt to buy this expensive set of commemoratives honoring the silver versions which made their debut in 1916. Or, for much less money, you can purchase BU examples of the actual silver specimens.
    What would be your choice: Gold commemoratives or actual specimens?

  83. Louis says

    Thanks, Mike. Hope you get it. I think you will.

    A question/point. Doesn’t the relative lack of eBay listings compared to say the BHOF gold suggest collectors who want to keep their coins went in pretty big? If it were really mostly dealers and flippers, wouldn’t there be more eBay activity (not counting what dealers are selling on their own)?

  84. Larry says

    @ Hawkster, if they are proof, I would really want at least the quarter. Gold or silver. There are no proof Standing Liberty Quarters. That would be a beautiful coin!

  85. Louis says

    Hawkster- The 1916 coins in BU esp. higher grade BU would be very expensive, but if you substituted later dates that would be cheaper.

  86. Ikaika says

    @ Louis

    Thanks. As mentioned before, the average collector does not have $5K in hands. The breakdown was about 3 coins/person. There are some dealers on the bay that have many for sale right now. This should give us some clue 😉

  87. Louis says

    BU gold and proof silver or vice versa? I believe they said during the meeting that it might be tricky making proofs because the technology back then was so much less advanced and the designs might not strike right in proof. I’d have to check my notes.

  88. thePhelps says

    Louis… I think it is tough to speculate that an average collector bought more than a few of these. If they bought 10 that would be $14,900 on 10 ounces of gold. While I am sure there are plenty of deep pocket collectors – I think many who have those kinds of dollars are probably wise enough to know that speculating on the increase in value of a gold coin is not a great investment strategy.

    That said – it is rather odd to see very few listings on eBay for these so far, but it might be many are waiting to have product in hand before pushing a listing out for them.

    Nice article by the way.

  89. Ikaika says

    @ Mike in NY and Louis

    “@Louis Another great article. We are fortunate to have a contributor of your caliber on this blog. Now if we could have you take over where michael left off we would be all set.”

    I second that 🙂

  90. says

    Louis and Larry,
    O.K., than I would say be content with a nice BU SLQ from later years, possibly late 1920’s, where the boobies have long been covered up.

  91. cagcrisp says

    @Louis, Another good article. I personally don’t want the Mint going down the road of making the Liberty design on a Medal. I think it dilutes the offering. IF the Mint wanted to change the design of the ASE OR the AGE with the 2015 Liberty design I would be all for it. I love the eagle on the Reverse of the 2015 HR Liberty. It has to be used on a coin and not a medal though…

  92. Louis says

    Thanks to all.

    To be clear I am not suggesting average buyers bought lots of coins. All I am saying is I don’t agree that we can extrapolate the conclusions some of you have from what we know now.

  93. Louis says

    Thanks, CC. As for the ASE the Mint has ruled out changing the design for now anyway and I suspect they feel the same way about the gold, but mot collectors seem to want the new eagle.

    Gotta go enjoy the nice weather!

  94. cagcrisp says

    @Hawkster, You made a couple of good comments (questions) on the ATB’s vs. HR Liberty and Silver 1916’s vs. Gold 2016’s…

    For ME, it’s Gold on both questions…

  95. gary says

    @Louis… all good rational points you made.
    I still do believe that most of the multiple coin HR orders are speculative. The lack of real sales on Ebay and the growing listings really indicates to me that those speculators are watching very intently which way things may break + or – on this issue. Without a doubt there are genuine collectors who bought single coins as keepers. But collectors who bought into the 2013RP and 2014JFK are underwater and resist taking another bath, particularly when the earlier and costlier gold numismatic releases became available at bargain prices.
    Really comes down to the individual’s financial means and self discipline in managing your own finances.

  96. gary says

    At least the Mint does provide a safety valve for collectors and speculators who bought HRs and wanted to bail within the seven day return privilege.

  97. HarryB says

    @Louis: great article as always. You captured my observations well. Thanks for all you do.

  98. ClevelandRocks says

    I bought a gold JFK (on release) and am very happy with it. Sure if I waited I could have purchased it cheaper, but I don’t care. It’s a semi-real coin in gold. Same size as the circulating Kennedy half that we all have known our whole lives, and a real classic. In 10 years, the coin will still be viewed for what it is, not a “what were they thinking?” fake coin/ PC gold trinket.

    Reality is that circulating days of most coins are dying as people will use smartphones and other non-coin means of paying for things so any new design is highly suspect for never penetrating the public knowledge that it ever was a real coin.

  99. says

    Louis wrote in CW:
    … [the strong start of sales of the coin] suggests that there is demand for modern representations of Liberty.

    IMHO, there is exactly one reason the 2015 Liberty is a major coin drop for the Mint — high relief. The coin’s design is not a selling point — buyers just hold their noses and try to get past the design.

  100. says

    BTW, when you write a “Voices” piece for CW, isn’t it redundant to use the throwaway expression “in my opinion” within your opinion piece?

  101. Mark says

    Lowest buy it now is $1749.00…2 available ….( No takers yet). Even if he gets all the super ebay store discounts,accepts money order…etc.etc. He might make $150.00 profit. Now put that $1500.00 piece of gold in the mail and i hope he sleeps well.

  102. DCDave says

    “Reality is that circulating days of most coins are dying as people will use smartphones and other non-coin means of paying for things so any new design is highly suspect for never penetrating the public knowledge that it ever was a real coin.”

    As a coin collector I admit that I try not to use cash for daily transactions (don’t get points when I use cash either), so I agree that more and more people will be less aware of coinage, especially new designs.

    As far as the HR, the reverse does look nice, but like the FS’s, I won’t buy a coin solely for the reverse.

  103. Ends in Error says

    If all goes well, I should have 2 of those lovely HR Bullion pieces on Monday. Maybe I’ll send in the best one as my first ever slabbing with PCGS. Or maybe I’ll return both to the Mint.

    Here’s hoping they look better in hand than the illustrations.

  104. GoldFishin says

    @Louis Says- “A question/point. Doesn’t the relative lack of eBay listings compared to say the BHOF gold suggest collectors who want to keep their coins went in pretty big? If it were really mostly dealers and flippers, wouldn’t there be more eBay activity (not counting what dealers are selling on their

    There are already 78 listings on Ebay for the HR coins which is quite a rapid rise considering that the majority of them are PRE-SALE and many listings are BIN with multiple coins being offered. Pretty strong considering the Presale activity in my opinion, but I am a little encouraged as I see MS70 listing selling buy it now for $1900+ at the moment. I feel OGP sellers may not fair so well, until/unless we get a sellout in the next couple of weeks.

  105. cagcrisp says

    78 listings on the bay. 64 BIN. OF the 14 Auctions, 4 are for 70’s, 5 are actually BIN in disguise. That leave 5 actual auctions and One of those is questionable because it started at $1,699.99 and it has One bid at $1,699.99 and all the other auctions are currently +$200 Less…

    My guess most of these BIN’s will disappear and be returned to the Mint next week. Just through out a BIN and IF someone bites good, IF not just send it back…

  106. says

    In regard to the Lady Liberty MS70 with a BIN for $1900.+ : The ebay seller can list the coin for any price he wants. Whether he can get someone to bite is another matter.

  107. Jeff says

    If you have $1500 of disposable cash go for it. For me appreciation means something, I hope those that bought reconsider before the window close for a return. If not you will have a nice observe bullion ounce of gold worth what ever the market says it’s worth it will be like buy a new car when you drive m it off the lot depreciation. I am not mm into waiting 5-10 years .

  108. Mark says

    New player in the game…BIN $1740 (4 available)…no takers. OH my a $6000.00 credit card bill coming.

  109. gary says

    It would not surprise me at all if mega buyers of the HR are all centrally located near the headquarters of either NGC or PCGS. Multiples of the 50 coin limit orders, as they arrived are whisked off for grading, sub 70 grade coins are returned to the buyers and the substandard coins put back into OGP and sent to the Mint for full refunds in 50 coin batches, maybe hang onto a few 69 grades, maybe not. They could do this within the one week return period and ad infinitum should the coin remain at profitable levels. Just a theory but with big ticket items as the HR there is a lot of potential profits but only by rapid action.

  110. gary says

    @Cagcrisp… yes, I believe that the shipping boxes for back to the Mint are ready for lots of Ebay BIN coins that don’t sell for at least around a hundred buck profit or a marginal break even. The window of opportunity to return unwanted coins begins closing around Aug. 7 and forward.

  111. Mark says

    Just looked at the completed / sold section. The last 8 or 9 recent ones were either cancelled no longer available..or error in listing . I think what we are taking about has already started.

  112. Jeff says

    I think many that have a back ordered status will get their coin earlier than anticipated from the flood of returned coins that were cheery picked. GL with that. Let us know how this works out for you.

  113. Jeff says

    Gary ebay does not tell the whole story many here would say. But really there’s no where else to sell if you wanted to, a dealer would not even give you bullion price for this coin. And if someone is interested in making less than 5% I say GL with that I would be so afraid it would be lost in the mail then we hit the mail thing again. My best suggestion leave this alone fight another day. Even if you wait for a fire sale on ebay what do you think quality wise you would get poor chances of a quality coin.

  114. gary says

    @Jeff … for sure Ebay does not give a full view, but you are right, Ebay becomes the cleanest pair of soiled underwear choice of selling venue for a lot of collectors -in remote areas especially.
    Only a real cruel dealer would offer only bullion value for this new issue. If they did then they really don’t want to handle bullion in the first place. That said, I would sweat bullets by now trying to get out of Dodge on this coin even if I was to be so fortunate in making a break even nil deal through Ebay. Best approach and a bit more assured is to return all product to the Mint.

  115. says

    Alright, when the mega buyers (dealers) return the Gold Lady Liberties which don’t grade out a “70” to the Mint, what explanation do they give on the return form? Do they, for example, state that they changed their mind and decided to keep only 10 of 50? Or, are they more forthcoming and state that since only 10 graded “70” the remainder are being returned?
    You would really think that the Mint is onto these type of games.

  116. gary says

    @Hawkster… I wasn’t aware that returns to the Mint are gated for credible reason issues to return and receive a refund. Is there a list of credible reasons they will accept to pass muster? Since grading is and will always be the eye of the beholder why would you need to say they won’t make a certain numerical grade to get a refund? I think you could be dissatisfied for any reason with the look of the coins or with it’s packaging.

  117. VA Bob says

    If folks believe the HR premium is high, the Mint has not stated that it will sell the 3 classic coins next year in a set. That means the 400 bucks on this HR will look like a gift compared to the premium for less than 1 oz. of gold next year, if one wants all three. It shouldn’t be too big a problem as some have no problem paying a 100% mark up, justified, of course, with lower cost silver.

    I really wonder if any of the people here that say they are collectors are worried about the 2010 thru 2012 ATB pucks (all sold for over $200, with the 2010’s selling for $279.95)? Example: I bought my first 4 coin AGE set from the Mint in 1994. With the $999 price tag for <2 oz. of gold, I never expected a return. Bought them because I wanted them, just like the other buyers. Those took over 10 years for PM to reach the break even price. I bought a gold RP Buff (and have all the proofs, including 2008 fractionals) and the JFK. I couldn't careless what any of are selling for today on eBay, because I'm not selling. I'll worry about it if and when I decide to liquidate my collection.

    A collector should only be concerned about price the day he/she sells. If you buy a coin you don't like for your personal enjoyment or expecting it to go up, then congratulations, you just discovered that you're really a speculator, not a collector. Once that realization sets in, you no longer have to worry about completing sets or series, and you can now relax, sit back, and watch your wealth move daily on eBay. No different than watching a stock ticker.

  118. says

    I was, of course, being facetious in my above comment in informing the Mint that the reason for the returned coins was because they didn’t receive a 70 grade. But, on the Mint’s return form, which is included with each product shipment, is a list of reasons for return. Included on this list is an “unacceptable product or packaging quality” option. I guess for some returnees a sub 70 coin does represent an unacceptable product quality. Most likely, the most common reason for a return is “the product arrived damaged”. Another option to choose from is “the product packaging arrived damaged”, such as a cracked capsule. Believe it or not, there actually is a “changed my mind” option among the list of reasons that the buyer can choose from. Finally, there is also a “merchandise arrived too late” reason that the buyer can choose. Arrived too late for what? A first strike or early release designation?

  119. M says

    The return policy is 7 days. Not enough time to grade them and return those that are less than perfect.

  120. Jeff says

    No you can eyeball them, send back obvious rejects submit what you feel are best. I call that cherry pickin. Does not matter to me I’m on the sidelines. Which is great outside looking in. It goes to look crazy first week sales 36k
    Second week -12k can’t imagine 36k real collectors of this coin just can’t.

  121. says

    I think the 7 day return window works for the Big Boy dealers, who no doubt have a preferred customer standing with their favorite grading companies.

  122. cagcrisp says

    @GoldFishin, You asked me about 2-3 weeks ago If I was getting “itchy” fingers. I did. I had a target. Hit said target and now I don’t have any itchy fingers…

  123. VA Bob says

    HarryB – There is nothing wrong with being a speculator. I just believe some people have convinced themselves otherwise. That’s why we see the emphasis on financial heath of any particular coin issue. It’s the Mint News Blog not the Mint Product Collectors Blog, so it’s OK to be a speculator commenting here. If they had a Collectors Blog, that’s where I’d be though because that’s what interests me. I really like to discuss the merits of a design, the processes, and the issues affecting the hobby. Others need the stock ticker. I’m not looking for hype up or down. No one is going to be completely satisfied.

  124. Ends in Error says

    I think I see a big error in reasoning here. It seems to be assumed that Dealers have to play by the same rules as everyone else. Do they pay the same money as us small fry? Do they seem to be able to order before everyone else, getting first day labels?

    I really think returns are handled in a different way for the big accounts than for the small accounts.

    The playing field is not level.

  125. Jeff says

    EIE VA Bob likes no hassle commenting only positive comments or he’s leaving I think. If your not on his side you arewrong in your thought process. Because some here see a different side and have a different opinion I myself want all sides heard good, bad indifferent. You can usually weed out most comments. To me this issue is for the well off. Why can’t this same effort be put into a lesser valued coin like silver, clad,copper,even a strong aluminum alloyed coin let’s get creative mint.

  126. Dave SW FL says

    Ends in Error

    Totally agree! It will be interesting to see if the weekly report shows negative numbers for this issue…or at least a negative net after considering additional orders.

    Personal opinion –
    A triple struck high relief coin which is not a 70 with today’s technology really should not happen. Of course I am expecting that with all of the special effort going into these coins, there is also special handling in the minting and packaging of said coin. I would expect the percentage of 70 s to be way above average. And thus, lower premiums for the 70 down the road.
    I am waiting this one out. If I miss out I will chalk it up to experience. If it goes as I expect, I will get it at much lower prices.
    Gold still in a bear market will not help. And I think the mints marketing and catering to the BIGS and their collusion with the graders is the death knell to coin collecting.
    History may not repeat, but it seems to rhyme throughout the hobby/ collecting universe.
    Quite sad, indeed. IMHO

  127. HarryB says

    @VA Bob: Agreed, nothing wrong at all with being a speculator, I rely on them when I miss a popular offering like the Truman set, I got caught in a meeting and they were gone, so I purchased what I needed to keep building my set. @ Ends in Error: I am sure the big dealers who are “bulk purchasers” do get a small price discount and order in advance for some releases. Years ago the only coin dealer in the city I live in told me he ordered 100 silver proof sets thru the bulk purchase program, paid in advance and his order was shipped on the release date. I also have seen a picture of a bulk purchaser loading a truck at the fulfillment center. For this release I suspect several bulk purchasers were allowed to pick up their coins at the fulfillment center at the release hour, and flew their coins from Memphis International to Orlando immediately. How else could big retailers like MCM be offering NGC graded coins starting August 4th.

  128. Clark says

    Sales numbers for EVERY single Mint product over the years reflect 10s and 100s of thousands of collectors purchasing coins which frequent posters here would never buy. These are the same collectors to whom the Mint and large online warehouse retailers sell en masse. These collectors are buying what they like probably without concern about short term resale values, packaging, premiums or even mintage limits. They are the world of buyers whose voices are not expressed in the comments section of this blog, but they are very real and very important.

    I enjoy the diversity of opinions here, but harbor no delusions that this group accurately reflects the rest of the 99.9999% of people who buy US Mint products each year. Thankfully, the massive purchasing power of these other collectors make it possible for us to scrutinize the Mint’s products, operations, and sometimes to profit from lesser known quirks of certain releases. The popularity of this week’s HR American Liberty coin is a gentle reminder that opinions expressed here are of no consequence to the masses of people who buy modern US coins.

  129. Hidalgo says

    Could someone provide the links/website(s) where the sales numbers for the 5 ounce silver America the Beautiful bullion and collector’s versions are posted? The sales numbers would run from 2010 to the present.

    Thank you.

  130. Hidalgo says

    @Clark – I totally agree with your sentiments. This blog provides an opportunity for bloggers to express their own personal views. Just because a blogger is a coin dealer, flipper, or writes articles for major publications does not mean they are “experts.” They are like all of us — individuals who collect, buy, sell, or flip coins — who have an opinion they choose to share.

    As I found out years ago, there are three sides to every discussion: yours, theirs, and the right one.

  131. Hidalgo says

    @Clark – by the way, even though the 2015 UHR gold coin has far exceeded the expectations of the bloggers here, I still have no plans to add this $1,500 coin to my collection. I would much rather buy the next 10 America the Beautiful 5 ounce silver coins (at $150 each) or a combination of other US Mint products, e.g., Presidential Coin and Chronicles sets, Native American Coin and Currency Sets, US Silver Proof sets, etc. I can easily buy multiples of these sets and still have change to spare! 🙂

  132. VA Bob says

    Jeff – I’m not bothered who disagrees with me or not. But I do wonder why some comment over and over, often spanning threads, their dislike for a coin, or at the other end of the spectrum hype the coin. Why? What’s the end game? I believe we all know in short order what people here think about any given issue. I was only half joking when I suggested Cag make a like/don’t like list to compliment his Mint opening/final sales list. Perhaps the longer wait between fresh articles is partially to blame. Feel free to disagree all you like.

    If you took my comment personally or negatively, well that’s on you, as it wasn’t directed at anyone personally, and it definitely wasn’t to suggest that anyone that isn’t a collector is bad. Just and observation of multiple comments, this topic and others. Life’s too short to obsess what others say in a blog on the internet. I don’t believe there is anyone here that I haven’t had a friendly disagreement with, but that doesn’t mean I won’t agree with them on something else. I can respect their opinion either way.

  133. thePhelps says

    @Clark – you are right there are a lot of buyers who do not express themselves about the coins they purchase. I think most of us here even tell people to purchase what they like – when they like it and for what they want to pay for it… I for one have no qualms with anyone wanting to purchase the 2015 Liberty.

    That said – I am still not seeing this coin as a massive success… the numbers just don’t support that. Was it a big seller – of course it was based on the number of “coins” sold, the mint generated a ton of cash. Did a huge number of buyers flock to the web and purchase it? Well if your buying FS coins the 15,000 buyers is a huge number – if your buying the 5 Ounce ATB’s it might be about middle of the road… for most other mint products that would be a pretty small number of people actually buying the coin – straight from the primary source – the mint.

    You might view that as a “popular” coin… but I don’t see it as being such. You mentioned there are 10’s and 100’s of thousands of collectors and then see that perhaps fewer than 15,000 of them purchased 37,000 of this item. That to me tells a slightly different truth than it does to you. When looking through the sold items on eBay it appears there isn’t much love being given there either.

    The speculators bought this coin and the hype continues as they try and convince people it was really a popular item at release – because they need people to give them more than they paid to purchase it from them.

    I am all for anyone buying what the like – I hope all who purchased this coin enjoy it for years to come. I view it as a mint issued medal with a $ value on it that is useless and meaningless. It has no historic context other than it is the 1st mint issued medal with a $ value and a new Liberty design. (no law authorized it – so is it a coin or a medal?) It was priced out the door well over the bullion price of gold and in my opinion actually has little numismatic value. It is a self serving offering from the mint to try and create another new market at higher prices.

  134. Clark says

    @Hidalgo–How right you are about that third opinion.

    As a collectors, we set priorities for our own collections. I wouldn’t mind adding the HR American Liberty coin to my collection because I see it, as the US Mint does, to be the second in Director Moy’s line of high relief classics produced with modern technology. However, as a die hard first spouse collector since ’07, I’m stuck with dropping at least $8,000 each year (incl grading) to keep the collection current. When it finally and mercifully ends next year, I’ll have more freedom to choose again and to add coins I’ve had to pass on for 10 years. Collecting a gold coin series has been bittersweet, but mostly bitter.

  135. Clark says

    @thePhelps–You raise some good points. I’m not really invested enough in the HR Liberty coin to declare it to be wildly popular, but the sales numbers by any measure are impressive. I have an unsupported hunch that a good chunk of the demand is coming from overseas markets, but time will tell.

    The date and specific monetary denomination ($100) of the HR Liberty product make it a coin, not a medal.

  136. says

    Hidalgo said:
    Could someone provide the links/website(s) where the sales numbers for the 5 ounce silver America the Beautiful bullion and collector’s versions are posted? The sales numbers would run from 2010 to the present.
    Thank you.

    Mike Unser published such a list earlier this year (click here). YMMV

  137. cagcrisp says

    You guys are Missing out on a Wonderful Wonderful auction that will be expiring within the Hour. You can get Ten (10) 2015 Liberty High Relief coin “Awesome New $100” and “AND IS NOW SOLD-OUT”for Just $17,649.00….

    That’s Right just $2,749.00 More than you can buy Directly from the Mint…

    But you do Save that pesky $4.95 shipping…

    Anyone want to bet whether these will be returned within the 7 day window?

  138. VA Bob says

    Cag – why anyone buys OGP on eBay (or TV for that matter), while the Mint is still selling, puzzles me. Yet we see it all the time from the cheapest to the most expensive coins. Do serious buyers really not know about the Mint’s online catalog in 2015?

  139. gary says

    @Cagcrisp… LOL, I guessing the car is gassed, the return paperwork and shipping box prepped & labeled, & will be at the Post Office 1st thing in the A.M. to go out Express Mail with full insurance coverage!

  140. cagcrisp says

    Guys, he must be Reading the Blog! He just cut his price to $17,500.00 with Less than 10 minutes to Go!

  141. Tinto says


    That seller is flat out lying by saying it is sold out ….that goodness I never got hooked on this eBay stuff .. . and a “blue velvet case” ?

  142. gary says

    @VA Bob… That’s just it, SERIOUS Buyers are aware of the ability to buy OGP direct from the Mint.
    Still there is that colossally uniformed and impulsive purchaser who will bite. Recall that there was the erroneous report of a sellout on Coin World (since amended). Also remember that many of these pre sales and in hand sales come with a 2 week return privilege. The seller also has to sweat it out that the buyer will keep what they just bought.

  143. Tinto says

    And he’s got other HR in the BIN category but graded as PCGS MS70 … so it makes me think the lot of 10 in OGP did not meet his criteria for MS70

  144. gary says

    Next to go back to the Mint is the Ebay listing for 15 coins for over 30K. Seller has his paperwork & return box ready also.

  145. says

    There can be no argument that the HR Lady Liberty has been wildly successful—-for the Mint, that is. The same thing was true for the Kennedy gold, and we know how that turned out on the secondary market.
    Is the same fate awaiting the Lady Liberty after market, a quick flameout for an overhyped Mint offering? I’m sitting on the sideline without having a buyer’s financially induced rapid pulse rate and enjoying the small drama of how all of this unfolds. And I don’t plan on entering this game in the 4th quarter–I’m glued to the bench and taking in the entertainment.

  146. Jeff says

    Gary I sent that seller a email telling him GL and he better have the return label and box ready when there are no takers.

  147. Ends in Error says

    What happened to the crowd that used to bash buying directly from the Mint? They used to praise buying from the local B&M or from ebay sellers.

    Looks like the tide has turned.

    The sheep are attacking the Shepards. Im lovin it. 😉

  148. says

    The guy will check off the “changed my mind” reason on the Mint’s return form as he sadly returns his 15 coins, following a failed attempt to get any suckers to bite on ebay.

  149. VA Bob says

    OT Sometimes it fun to review a little history. This is some of the 2009’s UHR’s from this blog.

    Even Michael was a bit bearish at times:

    “March 13, 2009 By Michael Zielinski

    Sales of the 2009 Ultra High Relief Double Eagle Gold Coin started off strong, selling more than 40,000 coins in the first four days. Following the opening week, the pace of sales has experienced a sharp and continuing decline.”

    In the days of anonymous commenting on the blog we can hear similar comments today:

    “Anonymous says

    February 2, 2009 at 4:09 pm

    Today I canceled my one of two UHR orders . The reason for cancelation was that this coin will not have collectible value in the future . There will be to many UHR in the market. I’m not planning to buy 2009 Buffalo because to many people will buy this coin as well.”

    People were concerned with the costs then too:

    Anonymous says

    December 12, 2008 at 9:53 pm

    Assuming the Mint can acquire an adequate supply of blanks, will this coin will be a victim of its own success? That is, it seems destined to be a popular release– one that could be produced in numbers high enough to prevent any real scarcity, although a high premium would tend to depress final sales numbers.”

    Then we had commenters like this. I wonder if he ever got his UHR cheaper? Well he had a backup plan to buy a “REAL” St. Gaudens :

    “Stevieladeek says

    December 13, 2008 at 9:21 pm

    Personally, I’m disappointed with several things regarding this coin.
    First, the 27mm diameter size which is the same as a half ounce coin…thus reducing the beauty of a wider coin…who cares that it’s thick?? Secondly I’m disappointed that some version of this (proof or something) doesn’t have a limit on it making it REAL SPECIAL. I won’t pay a large premium for this coin. I’ll wait until I can buy one on ebay for what I’d expect to pay for a 1 oz Buffalo or Eagle. If the issue price is high, I think I’d rather spend my money (what little I have) on the real thing (Saint Gaudens).”

    I could go on. Just want to illustrate that the more things change the more they stay the same. The 2015 HR is a flawed coin (design elements? price) one will buy if they like it or won’t if they don’t like it or can’t afford it. Personally I hope no one else buys one and 90% of those purchased are returned, and the Mint stops making them. But as it stands, it only has to be slightly <40% as popular as the 115,178 2009 UHRs sold. Now what are the chances of that happening?

  150. cagcrisp says

    @VA Bob, “why anyone buys OGP on eBay (or TV for that matter), while the Mint is still selling, puzzles me.”


    Sales have S L o w e d…

    30-35 K Might have been the Sweet Spot. A LOT of cancellations and returns will be happening. I still don’t see any chance successfully flipping. Flippers needed a Sell Out. I think most Flipper will either cancel or return Shortly. Those looking for $200 Below issue price will find those Few and Far between UNLESS you get a major pullback on Gold…

  151. says

    The ebay flippers are apparently not finding the gold pots at the end of the rainbow. They are the end of the rainbow. Returns to the Mint will follow in quick succession as each of the ebay auctions conclude with no buyers.

  152. ClevelandRocks says

    Hawkster: The gold Kennedy is a semi- real coin and looks like the circulating half-dollar that millions of Americans have held in their hands. Same size too. This will do well in the long term. Happy to have paid what I did on release for a virgin coin in a beautiful wooden display box (seriously). Even the RP clad dollar is semi-real since the dollar coin does circulate and people may recognize it.
    The ’15 PC gold fake coin/ trinket represents nothing. It is a (expensive) medal with a dollar amount on it.

  153. says

    Do you think your comment is in moderation because your history piece is being checked out for accuracy? Just kidding.

  154. says

    I guess we’ll be saying the same thing about next year’s gold 1916 commemorative dime, quarter, and half set—that they are semi-real coins.

  155. ClevelandRocks says

    I’m good with semi-real coins.
    Just hope the Mint slows down releases and too many varieties of too many things.

  156. thePhelps says

    @Ends… I see several items that it makes sense to buy on eBay instead of the mint. Many annual coin sets can be had on eBay cheaper than they are sold by the mint. The commemorative coins can also be bought on eBay cheaper than they can be found from the mint (not all but quite a few), and that also eliminates your direct support to some of the foundations that are getting the stipend for managing to get the government to issue the coins.

    That said I generally buy my products from the mint – don’t need the graders to be involved since I collect coins for my pleasure, and don’t believe I need them graded to enjoy them. I must have missed the mint bashing from days gone by.

  157. Ends in Error says

    The Gold Kennedy is muck less desirable to me than a gold plated Kennedy. At least a plated Coin would be cheaper. IMHO a Gold Kennedy should never have been made.

    Now the floodgates are open on Gold repros of Silver Coins. Where will it end ? Lincolns in Gold? Could I get a Half Cent in Gold? How about a 1794 Dollar in Gold?

    Now that I could get excited about. 🙂

  158. says

    VA Bob said:
    Cag – why anyone buys OGP on eBay (or TV for that matter), while the Mint is still selling, puzzles me.

    It’s possible that the ability to make the payment using PayPal is important to some people. For orders involving gold products, the Mint won’t accept anything other than a credit card number or, if you call, a wire transfer.
    It’s also possible that some people are willing to pay extra to avoid tipping off Uncle Sam about their gold collectible acquisitions.

  159. VA Bob says

    Hawkster – That is surely possible. But then since the all of the content, excluding my commentary comes from the pages of the US Mint News Blog, I wouldn’t believe it is a problem.

  160. VA Bob says

    D R – you make a very good point about PayPal. One would think the Mint would use it as well, but beyond the fees, there could be other reasons. It would be much easier to make multiple orders to bypass household limits, as it masks CC numbers, for one.

  161. cagcrisp says

    Currently there are 103 All Listings for ‘2015 high relief liberty’.

    There are 3 “ending soonest” that I am focusing on. All ending Monday morning.

    #1 is $1,515.00
    #2 is #1,500.00
    #3 is #1,510.00

    None of these are out of reason YET… IF you want a coin IN HAND then I can see paying a little extra.

    The way these auctions end will Either give Flippers Hope or Concern…

  162. Ikaika says

    @ cagcrisp

    When we see mainly BIN instead of auctions (e.g. starting at 0.99), it tells you that there is not much demand because the price people are willing to pay will not bring money to sellers.

  163. gary says

    Some of the bidders may give it up at about $1,540 after which the Ebay Bucks rebate on it gives no further impetus to bid very much higher unless they want their coin as soon as possible.

    I notice some “INVESTOR LOTS”of slab70s listed from a dealer ranging from 20 to 2 units.
    Are Slab70s going to be that common? WOW!

  164. Barry says

    I’ve made bids on e-bay for coins in the past and had it happen the seller will cancel the auction before it ends if they see the bid(s) is too low.

  165. mark says

    If there is 12 hours or less before auction ends. You must sell to the highest bidder. If there are more than 12 hours left, you can end it early but will charged a fee.

  166. joe says

    Real “Cool” Dave – I really miss Adrian Douglas! He wrote some of the most timely and interesting articles on PM manipulation.

    Thanks for the link.


  167. Tinto says


    And all or most of those MS70 slabs are ER or FS … and without a cutoff date yet established, it is possible all of the coins ordered (35K or so?) will meet that designation if the Mint ships them all out by next week. Of course it doesn’t mean the small fry will be able to get an MS70 .. unlike the guy with the 20 coin lot and others like him …

  168. gary says

    @Tinto… The whole first release “grade” 70? Never would happen. At least 50-60% will need to “take-it-for-team” and grade 69 simply to maintain the illusion of integrity that the coins are scrutinized with due diligence. Would not surprise me if the biggest of the big boys have an ex NGC/PCGS modern coin grader on retainer to prescreen their bulk orders.

  169. ClevelandRocks says

    Grading was meant to certify circulating coins were not doctored (Genuine) and the degree of wear from circulation (ms 65 was awesome). Modern day 70 v 69s are fake grades of a lot of fake coins.

  170. Tinto says


    And quite possible a big portion of that 50-60% will be composed of the small fry submitters ……. and the big boys’ rejects will be returned to the Mint where it will end up in the hands of a small fry who ordered a little later …

  171. Jeff says

    70’s will flood the market and ruin dealers,flippers and graders this will be the last straw for the coin collecting community . 69 are worthless just like the bullion counterpart OGP. We need another surprise does the mint have a rabbit in its hat. I don’t think so. The only thing I see that could be mind blowing is they cease further production in its tracts ..

  172. Dustyroads says

    It will be interesting to return to this thread in a few years and read all the comments.

  173. says

    Basically, all of the comments pertaining to grading are a rehash of those that have appeared over and over on this Blog site. I have to like Cleveland Rock’s take on this whole situation in which he stated the phoniness behind the grading of modern collector coins, particularily the assigning of the 69’s vs, the 70’s.
    Folks, this is a bullion coin, and a contrived one at that. Once the grading companies expanded their expertise into bullion, probably as the result of a TV coin’s show marketing ploy, things got quickly out of whack in this dealer driven “hobby.”

  174. VA Bob says

    Dusty – If you want a sample preview of 5 years from now, go back to my 12:51 comment on the previous page. It went through moderation.

  175. GoldFishin says

    You made some comments a couple days back. It’s funny, because under similar circumstances a week or so ago I wrote up a post that said almost the same thing to you. I decided not to post it until maybe the timing was better. Much appreciated and your intuitive cognition is correct.

    “a plethora of circus coins, gold coin, silver coins”

  176. GoldFishin says

    @VA BOB- it didn’t pass moderation to me….I can’t see it, even after refreshing that page. I have had several posts go into moderation in the last several weeks and they never come out. Seems to be no rhyme or reason to it. I changed my last moderated post 3 times taking out words that I think may have triggered it, to no avail. They continued to be blocked.

  177. bob r says

    I’ll ask uncle grandpa for a new grade and label on this coin from PCGS, First Strike-First Grade MS71, First Gold Gold From the Cosmo.

  178. VA Bob says

    GoldFishin – here’s another try.


    OT Sometimes it fun to review a little history. This is some of the 2009’s UHR’s from this blog.

    Even Michael was a bit bearish at times:

    “March 13, 2009 By M. Z.

    Sales of the 2009 Ultra High Relief Double Eagle Gold Coin started off strong, selling more than 40,000 coins in the first four days. Following the opening week, the pace of sales has experienced a sharp and continuing decline.”

    In the days of anonymous commenting on the blog we can hear similar comments today:

    “Anonymous says

    February 2, 2009 at 4:09 pm

    Today I canceled my one of two UHR orders . The reason for cancelation was that this coin will not have collectible value in the future . There will be to many UHR in the market. I’m not planning to buy 2009 Buffalo because to many people will buy this coin as well.”

    People were concerned with the costs then too:

    Anonymous says

    December 12, 2008 at 9:53 pm

    Assuming the Mint can acquire an adequate supply of blanks, will this coin will be a victim of its own success? That is, it seems destined to be a popular release– one that could be produced in numbers high enough to prevent any real scarcity, although a high premium would tend to depress final sales numbers.”

    Then we had commenters like this. I wonder if he ever got his UHR cheaper? Well he had a backup plan to buy a “REAL” St. Gaudens :

    “Name removed says

    December 13, 2008 at 9:21 pm

    Personally, I’m disappointed with several things regarding this coin.
    First, the 27mm diameter size which is the same as a half ounce coin…thus reducing the beauty of a wider coin…who cares that it’s thick?? Secondly I’m disappointed that some version of this (proof or something) doesn’t have a limit on it making it REAL SPECIAL. I won’t pay a large premium for this coin. I’ll wait until I can buy one on ebay for what I’d expect to pay for a 1 oz Buffalo or Eagle. If the issue price is high, I think I’d rather spend my money (what little I have) on the real thing (Saint Gaudens).”

    I could go on. Just want to illustrate that the more things change the more they stay the same. The 2015 HR is a flawed coin (design elements? price) one will buy if they like it or won’t if they don’t like it or can’t afford it. Personally I hope no one else buys one and 90% of those purchased are returned, and the Mint stops making them. But as it stands, it only has to be slightly <40% as popular as the 115,178 2009 UHRs sold. Now what are the chances of that happening?

  179. cagcrisp says

    I know some have posted about how the Big Boys have raised Silver premiums on coins. Here are real time examples.

    September 2014 I purchased the Following Apples to Apples comparisons:

    September 2014 vs. Current Offering

    Spot Silver $17.69 vs. $14.78 Down 16%

    1878-1904 Morgan (VG-VF) $28.18 vs $27.71 Down 2%
    Roll Walking Liberty (Avg Cir) $161.48 vs. $151.03 Down 6%
    90% Silver Barber Dimes 50-Coin Roll (Avg Cir) $97.45 vs. $98.09 Up 1%
    Everything else I bought in September 2014 is Out of Stock

  180. Buzz Killington says

    Another great post, VA Bob.

    I have to say, though, I am more bearish on the 09UHR Gold over the very long term.

    I am among the minority (I presume) who would rather have a totally original design in high relief than a St. Gaudens in high relief. Don’t get me wrong, the 09UHR is a great coin, but to me, it is not worth the premium that it currently carries.

    And I am also someone who wishes he sold his 1999 Silver Proof set back when it was worth something, which it was for quite a few years, but not anymore. Alas.

  181. GoldFishin says

    @VA Bob- nice post…..glad it worked. All of those posts could have been today…funny. I went back and read a lot of early posts in the days of Anonymous a few weeks ago, I sure wish I could put more names with the posts from those days. I think the Anonymous posts ended in July 2011. Cheers!

  182. Dustyroads says

    We currently have two 2015 American gold Double Eagles on the shelf at the US Mint, is that not interesting?
    Who can honestly say they know what the Mint will do next?
    I have to admit I’m a bit curious about it. Sure the Mint has said in the past it’s one in a series, I don’t know that it is. The present classic design has seen a lot of years, 30 since 1986, 26 from1907 to 1932 (1933’s aren’t supposed to exist). The Mint has stated on it’s web page that this coin is the latest in the “new” era closing the era of the classic design, what does that sound like to you?
    Are we supposed to understand that the Mint is really going to begin introducing a new modern design of the AGE every year until they decide to abruptly change their minds? Personally, I think it would be a mistake to completely disregard the possibility of UH8 being the first modern AGE.

  183. M says

    I ordered 2 but after seeing the real pics I think the Liberty Portrait is a bit ugly. It does not translate well to UHR. Kind of looks like Medusa or a zombie. I will withhold final judgement until I have them in hand. Its sad that Perth Mint can execute such stunning UHR coins and the US Mint comes up with this.

  184. VA Bob says

    Buzz and GoldFishin – I guess I just wanted to highlight how cyclic these releases can be. Same concerns, similar opinions. This HR could end up differently that’s for sure, time will tell. One thing will be different, most of the old comments were a dozen or two on each topic, now we will have hundreds to reference in the future.

  185. Clark says

    @VaBob–Excellent memory refresher. A cynical group this has always been.

    I personally favor a return to the one coin per household limit which the Mint initially imposed on the 2009 UHR Eagle. It was on sale at the Mint for almost 12 months and eventually sold around 110,000. This was a shining example of a policy that prevented hoarding, ensured that everyone who wanted a coin received one, allowed sales for a reasonable period of time, and eventually allowed large purchasers to by unlimited numbers. How much more fair could it be? Today the ’09 UHR Eagle carries a tidy premium and is one of my favorite modern coins. I bought one on the first day it went on sale and never looked back.

  186. thePhelps says

    Guys…other than being 1 ounce of gold and HR and sold by the US Mint… the 2009 and 2015 offerings really have nothing in common.

  187. stephen m says

    Phelps, except for the fact that the 2009 is beautiful, desirable and in demand coin and the 2015 should be also but we don’t know for sure yet. The 2015 may be a miss instead of a hit. Shipping, from the mint, should pick up this week for the 2015.

  188. cagcrisp says

    As of 08/03/15 on the bay offerings for the 2015 high relief Liberty

    BIN’s 79 +3
    69’s 3 +1
    70’s 18 +6
    Reserve Auction with high opening price 5
    True Auction 6 +1
    Total offering for 2015 high relief Liberty 111 +11

  189. KCSO says

    Thanks Cag, how many do you show that have sold?

    On a quick search this morning, I counted 10

  190. VA Bob says

    thePhelps – I don’t believe anyone is suggesting the UHR and HR are comparable. What is similar is that when the UHR was released, some people didn’t like it, some thought it was too expensive, some thought it was a “fake” coin, and others thought because of the mintage it would never be worth more than melt. The same is being said about the HR today.

    There have been many coins I didn’t particularly like. I stated my opinion, didn’t buy, and moved on. I also didn’t cheer for it to fail. I guess what I’m failing to understand is why so many that don’t like this coin, aren’t going to buy it have a vested interest in it’s demise (if that happens). It isn’t for everyone that’s for certain, but why the annimosity? The classic designs will be here next year, some folks still won’t be happy.

  191. cagcrisp says

    @KCSO, I think I counted 20 yesterday. I’m not keeping up with those because most of those Sold were graded and there are some Active BIN’s that have Sales. It’s just a Lot harder to keep up with because on Actives you have price changes and it may say 11 Sold and you can only count 10. When I kept up with the BHOF and Kennedy Sales I waited until a complete BIN concluded and then added my numbers. Sales are just not as easy to keep up with as Offerings…

    Here is an example. You really don’t know What price those were Sold:

  192. thePhelps says

    I for one dislike the coin for several reasons… primarily because it is going straight down the cafe’ mint path. The mint has been flirting with that and is now pretty enscounced in following the world mints.

    That said – I also find the reporting of the huge success to be a bit deceptive. While the total number sold is hard to argue a failure at the mint level – the total number of collectors buying the coin is actually quite small. To me that is either the mint trying to hype this through resellers, or resellers trying to hype the success so they can unload the mass of coins they are now owning. I see this broadstroke painting of this a huge success – ignores the reality of the numbers that are being seen. True the mint has so far made a lot of money – also true – there hasn’t been an instant sellout and the actual number of buyers of the coins appears to be largely second party resellers and not collectors.

    So consider me a counter balance to the over the top reporting. Several news sites early on even published this as sold out at the mint – several resellers were also pushing that in their online ads.

  193. VA Bob says

    thePhelps – And you made some good points against the HR. It’s important to throughly address the pros and cons. I believe the readers appreciate that, even if minds are set.

    As for being a success or failure. For the Mint it already is. They have made prenty of gold coins that have sold less. At 30K I’m sure they made all their development and production money back and more. Now will it be a secondary market sweetheart? It could be years before we know for sure. Ebay is a poor indicator of future value IMO. Good for now but only if you’re selling.

  194. cagcrisp says

    I made up the Stagger between Gold spot and the cost of a HR Liberty yesterday when AP won the Haskell…

  195. Ends in Error says

    My 2 HR Golds are waiting at the Warren MI Post Office for me. I’m about to go take a look. Here’s hoping they’re good.

  196. thePhelps says

    VA Bob… Ebay is actually a good short term indicator. It is where most of the newest items will show up first. Even an LCS won’t have many of these for sale anytime in the near future. Until then eBay does track well with the resell of these coins in the near term, and has been pretty good for showing winners and losers.

  197. hilo says

    I would be very intrested in the 24k standing liberty coin next year, this one….forget it.

  198. stephen m says

    I purchased the 2009 & the 2015 HR because I liked them. The 2009 has added some value, if the 2015 doesn’t I’ll like it just as much as I do now. I would like to think that over all it’s maybe a 50/50 % of people liking and disliking the HR Liberty. and that’s only a guess. I would recommend to anyone that doesn’t like the coin to not buy it.

  199. says

    In summary, in regard to the gold HR, we are dealing with: 1) those who bought the coin(s) because they can’t live without it, and 2) those who didn’t buy the coin because they can live without it.

  200. KCSO says

    thePhelps, good points, if I may add, the bay also is a VERY good indicator of collector enthusiasm..,

    which we’ve seen play out, or not.., recall those First Spouse coins that sold out a couple months ago on the mint website driven by MNB enthusiasts…, what came of those I the secondary market? That’s a rhetorical question…

  201. KCSO says

    Hawkster.., in Summary, I think only (1) one Conclusion can be drawn at this point..,

    Which is, in the time that you and I have been posting here, not sure we’ve witnessed such a controversial offering such as this one…, sans the FS

    Seems like by now in the past, the blog has swayed in one direction or another.., not this time! Gotta love it

  202. says

    There have been many commenters on MNB who have raised the question as to why collectors would pay higher secondary market prices for “hot” coin products on ebay when these products are still available from the Mint. Some commenters have speculated that these are less knowledgable collectors who are simply not aware that the product can still be purchased from the Mint.
    I offer a different reason: many of these collectors, who buy a still available “hot” Mint product off of ebay, are those whose orders are backed up for so long (sometimes months as was the case of the HOF coins) from the Mint that they simply unwilling to wait. Therefore, they cancel the order and buy an in-hand coin from an ebay seller. In other words, some less patient collectors have the need to get their coin(s) immediately–even if it means paying a higher price.

  203. Luftphase says

    …here is a new twist 😉 based on the gold sales from the mint for july; if given a choice on 2 double eagles, the bias would be to get the “new” issue?

  204. Zaz says

    Hope you kept the faith with your discounted Lou proof Mint order. Mine sat for five days in processing then suddenly was marked shipped with tracking order #. I was getting ready to call to cancel the order tomorrow. I was 98% sure they weren’t going to honor the error being a government entity and all. Hope the cojn’s a decent example.

  205. cagcrisp says

    I got my high relief Libertys in today and they look good. I’ve been looking at them all morning. Love the eagle and I would LOVE for the obverse and reverse to be used on the ASE or AGE. I’ve never been fond of either eagle on the ASE or AGE.

    I’m glad that I got what I got, however, I’ve got a different agenda than many of you do.

    The Mint got One chance to do this ‘modern era’ right and I think overall they did good. They just have to Follow through on the modern era, OR it will all be for naught…

  206. cagcrisp says

    A BIN listing just got Lowered to $1,700.00. That puts a Lot of pressure on Many…

  207. KCSO says

    And they have 5 available…

    Good to hear Cag,

    Anyone ever use E-Gift certificates to make a purchase? Are they linked to an account or as long as you have the certificate number, you can purchase way? Thanks in advance!

  208. says

    Yeah, and wouldn’t you know it’s a Long Island guy putting the anaconda squeeze on the other OGP Lady Liberty ebay sellers.

  209. GoldFishin says

    @Cagcrisp- Yes, I have my eye on the HR’s, Trumans, BRP’s, Gold, WTI, the $, and my little lady ’cause we are at the beach for a few days. Did I miss anything of note? Glad your coins are nice, I am not sure if mine have shipped yet or not. I am sticking with my plan of submitting mine to NGC if they are worthy of it.
    Otherwise, I will keep one and send the other back.

  210. Ends in Error says

    Well I got my 2 HR’s at the PO and I got to say I’m impressed. I agree with cagcrisp about the reverse Eagle – absolutely stunning. The detail in the wings is very impressive. I’d say get the Coin for the reverse alone.

    Now this thing about buying an ounce in a slip sliding bullion market… I dont know. Certainly at 50,000 this thing wont be rare, so maybe waiting for a crash might be in order?

    Now about the obverse. Well it certainly is high relief, no doubt about that. Nothing flat about this Coin. You can even see a hint of breasts – cool ! Looking forward to those type 1’s next year. 😉

    I’m still pondering the Liberty Lady on the obverse. Certainly it isn’t any worst than the St Gaudens Liberty it’s just that the face is larger and you see it much better. Did I mention the reverse Eagle is totally magnificent?

  211. Louis says

    Thanks for the reviews , CC and Ends. I have one processing and could still cancel I think but I am pretty sure I will be as pleased as you guys are and feel it fits in well with my collection. If the quality is there, I may have it graded. The premium is high but it is the same as 2 Jackie proofs, and this is my one and only big purchase for the year. Plus I like exotic gals.

    Has anyone seen or heard anything about the final design for the 2015 APE? Seems late in the year not to have a design. It better not be as good as last year’s.

  212. mark says

    A hint of breasts…just think what some of the other designs would of looked like. The mint really missed it. Ninety percent of coin collectors are male.

  213. VA Bob says

    thePhelps – I agree ebay is good short term indicator of what some will pay, however I said it is a poor indicator of “future” values and I stand by that.

  214. cagcrisp says

    The numbers for the “opening week numbers” for the 2015 high relief Liberty are in : 41,830

    Don was the First to guess 50,000

  215. Ends in Error says

    I gotta say the more I look at this Coin the more I like it. I think the Mint deserves a pat on the back for this execution. A job well done …. you dirty ratts . LOL


    I’m gonna keep both my Coins , that way I can look at both sides without flipping it over and over.

    St Gaudens Liberty , you are such a tired old gal. This new Liberty is a-ok in my book.

  216. GoldFishin says

    @cagcrisp- at nearly 42K, we should have a sell out within several weeks,…you think? A relatively quick sellout sure won’t hurt its near term or long term prospects.

    I just checked my order history. My Single HR purchase that was backordered to Oct. has shipped FedEx Smarpost, but my 2 coin order that was placed about 1000 orders earlier still has not shipped by 2 day priority. Another instance that FIFO is a unicorn type myth. You folks better make up your mind quick or you may get shipped earlier than you think.

  217. Louis says

    If the remaining 8K coins are sold over the next week, expect to see plenty of these trading at the ANA show and for a premium. Plus PCGS will be grading on site but not with ANA show labels. They have a special one for this coin as does NGC.

  218. cagcrisp says

    @GoldFishin, you know as well as I do you get 83.9% down you are getting into Tricky territory. I THOUGHT you would have plenty of time to wait this out, now I’m not so sure. With numbers coming out only Once a week, do you take a chance IF you want a coin? Do the Flippers now have a Hope of a rapid Sell Out?

    41,830 changes things up. This thing could start feed off itself. Whether you Like it or not, the train Could be leaving the station (Much earlier than I would have Thought)…

  219. KCSO says

    OR, playing devil’s advocate.., we have another JFK scenario.., and it resets back 6,000 from returns and cancellations.., we’ll know this time next week!

  220. Jerry Diekmann says

    I think many of us on the MNB were surprised at how many of these HR gold coins sold in the first day – I know I was. I had decided to pass on this coin for the time being because I felt it was grossly overpriced, but it looks like the big dealers and flippers took a chance on making some extra money and bought thousands of these coins. A day after the coin went on sale I saw the number of coins sold, and decided if I wanted the coin, I had better purchase it from the Mint now. Since the coin is on back order until October 1 (?), I figured if gold took a big drop in price, like $100.00 or more per ounce, I could just cancel the old order and buy at the lower price. But since I don’t know what is going to happen with either the sales of this coin or the price of gold, I guess I am better off just buying the coin now and being done with it. I think the coin is quite pretty, both the obverse and the reverse, although I know some of you don’t think much of the obverse. When St. Gaudens was creating his works of art, people were more enamored of heavier and full figured women – look at St. Gaudens’ $20.00 double eagle, the Morgan dollar, the Barber “Liberties”, the Seated Liberty coins of the 19th century (truly an ugly coin in my opinion but they lasted over 50 years), even Barber’s Liberty nickel. None of these “Liberties” would be considered especially attractive by today’s standards. So I decided to buy this coin since it does have considerable eye appeal. I do hope, however, that the big dealers and the flippers get burned by this coin. They are effectively stealing the numismatic value of these coins from collectors in order to try and take short-term profits.

  221. Jerry Diekmann says

    Dave – SW FL “And I think the mints marketing and catering to the BIGS and their collusion with the graders is the death knell to coin collecting.”

    I agree with you, at least with modern coins – those commemoratives and special strikes, etc. that have been issued since 1982, and especially those issued in the last 20 years or so. Trying to tell the difference between a MS69 and a MS70 coin is like trying to pick out fly shit from pepper, IMO. The extra + grades go to the big dealers as thanks from the TPGs for sending them all their business. For me, I stay away from both of them.

    TPG coins are OK for older coins, like those issued before 1965., and for authenticating a coin as genuine. Anything later is really unnecessary. A MS67 coin from before 1965 is truly a magnificent coin. A MS67 coin from modern day issues is a loser – even lower than a MS69 coin, which are just about unheard of in any coin before 1965.; That’s why I think this whole grading frenzy is some day going to come crashing down big time on whoever is left holding these coins.

  222. Jerry Diekmann says

    VA Bob – iI really do like your attitude. Everyone is free to like or dislike any coin, to collect, speculate, flip, hoard, or whatever – it’s a free country and open to all viewpoints. I think each of us is trying to do what we think is the best for us, and some of us look to the long-term, while others has a short-time focus. I think we learn more, and maybe appreciate our own position more, by listening to what others say – that’s a good way to learn – to listen to various viwpoints on a subject, whether it be coins, politics, religion, scince, or any other topic of interest to people. We are free to accept or reject others’ opinions. In some cases others’ opinions serve to validate our way of thinking, and in other cases we can at least appreciate the other person’s point of view. Very few posts on this website have ever been totally off the wall. I wish everyone a happy summer – it’s almost half gone, by the way. “Tempus fugit” – “time fies”, as the Romans said.

  223. M says

    I received my 2 coins today. I actually like them in person. However one has a scratch on it and will be returned. The new MINT website makes it impossible to return and replace. One must return for refund then reorder again. A major step backwards from the old website. I guess the Mint deemed this coin worthy of cheap packaging compared to the 2009 UHR with its stunning box and book. Also, has anyone noticed the US Mint has switched to Air Tight capsules instead of those proprietary capsules they always used?

  224. says

    All of the high relief coins will have hair line scratches. Watch out for high graded slaps. They have scratches too. And be carefull. Look at your coins before sending them to be graded and. Slabed. There could be a lot of coin switching going on.

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