2017 American Eagle 1-oz. gold Uncirculated coin goes on sale June 1

(Photos courtesy of APMEX)

(Photo courtesy of APMEX)

Updated June 22, 2017, to correct the engraver’s name and the fineness. Thank you to the readers who caught the errors!

Updated May 31, 2017, to correct the date in the headline.

Tomorrow (June 1) is the release date for the Mint’s annual American Eagle 1-ounce gold Uncirculated coin (17EH), which will be available from noon Eastern time. The Uncirculated and Proof AGEs are collector versions of the official U.S. Mint American Eagle gold bullion coins, differing with respect to finish and mintmark (which the bullion strike lacks). Each 22-karat (0.9167 fine) gold Uncirculated coin, denominated $50, is enclosed in a clear capsule housed in a blue, Mint-branded box, and comes with a certificate of authenticity.

Hover to zoom. (Single photos courtesy of the U.S. Mint)

(Individual, high-res photos courtesy of the U.S. Mint)

Each coin measures 1.287 inches in diameter (32.7 mm) and has a reeded edge. The obverse design features Augustus Saint-Gaudens’s full-length figure of Liberty with flowing hair, striding toward the viewer against a background of 26 sun rays. Her left foot steps up onto a rocky outcrop, as if she is climbing a mountain; at the base of the outcrop is a cluster of oak leaves, symbolizing strength. She carries a torch of freedom, held in her right hand, and an olive branch, symbolizing an offer of peace, out to the side in her left. In the distance, at the lower left of her skirt, is the U.S. Capitol. The word LIBERTY arches above her head, the I and B spaced slightly wide to accommodate the top of the torch. To the lower right of the effigy, superimposed over the sun’s rays, is the date, 2017, with the mintmark W and the monogram of Augustus Saint-Gaudens below. The design is almost fully encircled by a border of 50 six-pointed stars.


The reverse was designed by Miley J. Busiek and engraved by Sherl J. Winter. The upper half features a male eagle carrying a branch (presumably of olive), its wings scooping forward as it brakes for landing. The lower half depicts a nest of sticks set on a leafy branch and holding a female eagle, whose wings are cupped protectively around two chicks. Arching above the main motif are the words UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, with 1 OZ. FINE GOLD ~ 50 DOLLARS below the motif. In smaller letters in the field to the left, in two lines, is the national motto, E PLURIBUS / UNUM, and in the field to the right, IN GOD / WE TRUST. The initials of the designer and engraver, MB and JW, respectively, are below the eagles’ nest.   ❑

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  1. David says

    I think the AGE design would look great on a new silver bullion coin series. On that note I find it interesting there are 2 gold designs, the AGE and the Buffalo but yet ONLY one silver design, the tired and old ASE (which has been used for 31 years on the half dollar and 31 years on the ASE. Time for a change.

  2. Dustyroads says

    Hey Joe, nobody’s perfect. Just kidding around..

    With so many people shying away from mintage figures over the last few years, and we seeming to be in a trough of the low mintage faze, I wonder if this AGE “W” UNC. will squash the 2012. I think the answer will lie in whether the PM markets are up, down, or sideways.

  3. Throckmorton says

    I always get a couple just because the obverse is so pretty. I always order early in the hope of getting product from fresh dies. Not wild about the reverse. I wish they would go whole hog on the St. Gaudens design and re-institute the flying eagle reverse.

  4. earthling says


    I’m with you 100% on your comment on bringing in the reverse design from the original. The AGE Coin has been out so long with the same old design, a return to the original St Gardens reverse would be just the ticket.

  5. cagcrisp says

    The “nest of eagles” on the reverse is legislated. No changing unless you get Congress/President to pass legislation…

    …And…I doubt the reverse of the AGE is a top priority to any legislator…

    Here is the exact wording for the reverse ” a design representing a family of eagles, with the male carrying an olive branch and flying above a nest containing a female eagle and hatchlings”

  6. joe says

    I’m not the biggest fan of the AGE, but I do like the burnished version. I’m still trying to decide whether or not to pick this one up.

  7. earthling says

    I like the BU finish on the big 1 oz AGE. I already have a handful 😉so I don’t need anymore. What I’ve always wanted is one of those British Coins with that very impressive Britannia Lady. Guess it’s time to finally get one of those. Any suggestions on the best place to get one?

  8. joe#2 says

    If the A.G.E. was .9999 solid gold……. sold. Since it isn’t, I can find better in the gold buffalo.

  9. Throckmorton says

    Cagcrisp – maybe if someone caused a stir about why the female eagle has to stay in nest, it might up the priority (not that I have ever been able to discern the gender of the eagle on a coin)

  10. Tom says

    @Throckmorton, what about the male eagle having to do all the “work”? Need to change that. Maybe, , to please some, they could both stay in the nest with their young and be catered to.

  11. cagcrisp says

    @Throckmorton, That argument Might have worked with the Last administration.

    Not so much for the current administration…

  12. Mint News Blog says

    Thanks for that, cag — I couldn’t tell just by looking at the branch whether it was meant to be olive, although I couldn’t imagine what else it might be. The branch holding the eagle’s nest seems to be the same species, which is interesting: the eagles have built their nest literally on a foundation of peace.

  13. Throckmorton says

    Cagcrisp – well then, maybe the ploy should be that a reversion to the initial reverse would be good for business. Which, ironically, would probably be true.

  14. Scott says

    It’s time to revise this coin with the original St. Gaudens reverse, none of that P.C. crap that the mint seems to like so much lately.

  15. Dustyroads says

    “a design representing a family of eagles, with the male carrying an olive branch and flying above a nest containing a female eagle and hatchlings”

    If anyone were to threaten my family you can bet I’d do ANYTHING to bring about peace, including dying if need be. I like this reverse a lot more now, thanks.

  16. So Krates says

    @ Mint News Blog – The 22K purity is .9167

    @ David – The silver bullion US Mint alternative to the ASE is the ATB puck. You want change? Five designs every year! Last release had only a mintage of 20K (vs. 20M ASEs)

  17. Fmtransmitter says

    Happy belated memorial day collectors. I just got in the HR Kook. With only 5k, I couldn’t find any graded yet. So I did an unboxing on u boob. It’s such a beautiful coin and I love the series… here’s the link…
    Also been getting on the Bitcoin chain. Not letting that chain/train pass me by without going for a ride…

  18. So Krates says

    Anyone remember the minted to order “Family of Eagles” gold Maples from twenty years ago? The RCM was paid to put this silly looking privy mark on 100,000 1/10th CMLs in 1998. It is a tiny oval with three bird heads. The bullion dealer, Dillon Gage, put the deal together. They formed Family of Eagles, LTD. to pump and dump ’em at twice spot price through a Ponzi-like recruitment program. They slabbed ’em in cool little holders with an embedded COA and claimed a portion of the proceeds went to reduce the National Debt. I know they had to settle with at least one State Attorney General.


  19. gatortreke says

    There was some comment here a short time ago about the silver medals and how there is poor documentation re: the different medals, mintages, etc…. This was cited as one of the reasons the medals aren’t more popular or heavily collected. Can anyone recommend a book with appropriate coverage? I see the book by Dennis Tucker, American Gold and Silver Bullion: U.S. Mint Collector and Investor Coin and Medals, 1980 to Date and am wondering if someone can recommend any other publications? Thanks!

  20. Dustyroads says

    So Krates, I see they are close to prices of the same coins without the privy marks. That’s the reason I have never felt motivated to buy any of these from any year. They may be collectable to some and I can respect that. So, I say to each his own.

  21. Yes, But...You Can't Take It With You says

    So Krates: I didn’t know that the RCM did that but I certainly agree that the privy mark is silly looking!

    What I do like by way of foreign privy’s is what the Perth Mint did the next year in ’99 for our Statehood quarter series. One ounce Kook for each state. They also did a two ounce that had all five privy’s for every state that rolled out in a given year. And a 1 kilo that had some gold overlay, I think. The series only ran three years but the privy marks are really quite detailed. Just the opposite of the RCM eagle family you posted.

  22. Dustyroads says

    In reference to the reverse of the AGE; how much of the world as we know it is because of the sense of wanting to provide a safe place for our family. I dare say more than we know.

  23. Throckmorton says

    Just ordered my 2017 UNC AGE. Thank goodness I got in before they sold out!

  24. The Real "Cool" Brad says

    Scott – “It’s time to revise this coin with the original St. Gaudens reverse, none of that P.C. crap that the mint seems to like so much lately.”

    I was hoping they would update the reverse to show a stay-at-nest dad watching over two gender-fluid eaglets doing their best to overcome the effects of climate change. That would make Heir Cheeto spit his covfefe.

  25. cagcrisp says

    @data dave, Silver is Overpriced currently. $2.20 over Spot is still too High

    Silver should be closer to $16 than $17…

  26. Gary says

    It’s Sherl J. Winter who engraved the reverse of the American Eagle gold… not “Sheri” J. Winter.

  27. Asherspapa says

    Relevant to nothing in this discussion, I just chatted online with mint, just to suggest they create two sections of the Product Schedule–“Coming soon” at the top (scheduled but unreleased) with “Previously released” below. The Mint Rep wanted my name, email, phone, shipping address, billing address, names of all minor children, and my 401k balance. Okay, just kidding about the last two, but why in God’s name would they need all that other stuff to submit a suggestion. I just told nevermind, which is probably why they want that..discourage suggestions.
    It’s not the first time I’ve encountered the Mint’s terrible customer service, but it will be the last. Won’t bother again.

  28. Scott says

    @ $300 over spot these coins are way the hell overpriced for just a little “w” and should be priced at $100 over spot.

  29. gatortreke says

    Re: the APMEX flash sale, JM Bullion had a deal a couple of weeks ago for an MS-63 PCGS/NGC random year St. Gauden’s double eagle for $1315.00. The difference between the graded coin and an ungraded double eagle was something like $15.

  30. So Krates says

    @ Yes But – I don’t collect privy marked coins per se, but run into a good deal every now and then. I wasn’t aware of those state quarter Kookaburras. That is a high quality job with the individual US coin reverses as the privy marks. No real comparison but to be fair the Family of Eagles mark was only struck on the tiny 1/10ths.

  31. You Can't See Me says

    @1964 – there is no reason to think we will see that coin. It has not been mentioned by the mint. Write to the acting director with suggestions or your representatives in DC.

  32. DBR says

    i would like to see an article about what overhead costs the U.S. Mint incurs to produce, design, mint and market out nation’s coins. I try to gauge these overhead costs by the price above spot price for the PM coin and medal products. The extra price above spot market value for the PM content is justified by what has been done to the metal and the many hands involved along the production process.

    But I would like to see an analysis of what constitutes the final price charged. I’ve always thought that the U.S. Mint prices are on the low side but I’m just imagining what goes into overhead costs.

    The fact that there are dealers and distributors who of course raise the prices even higher, and that there are primary, secondary, tertiary and perhaps even a fourth-level market (and with consumers in each!), suggests that mint products are priced logically and low since the mint isn’t capitalizing on their products’ true value (both in terms of consumer value and especially collector value).

    I think one could analyze these overhead coin production costs objectively and dispassionately if one removed the PM value from the equation. Instead, all other things being equal imagine that the coins are made out of price/value negligible materials like clay or glass. Then look at costs from there, assuming cost recovery in pricing drives mint thinking. Perceived value by the mint consumer must factor in as well.

  33. Barry says

    Look at the difference in dollars between the ASE proof and bullion ASE in dollars not percentage.. Why shouldn’t the spread in AGE / Buffalo proofs be more similar in the dollar difference as the ASE proof is to the bullion strike ? Are the gold dies , planchets or other costs that much different than for silver or even say clad proofs? Why can’t the gold proofs be more reasonably priced ? Maybe I’m missing something or maybe the mint is just overpricing the coins.

  34. CasualCollector says

    OT: Did the Mint sell the remaining 2017 Congratulations Sets yesterday? Seems like they removed the product completely from their site. Not even a SOLD OUT stamp, they just removed the product completely…

  35. A&L Futures says

    FYSA – the U.S. Mint has removed the (April 4th) 2017 Congratulations Set listing from its CY17 Product Schedule? Has this ever been done before?

  36. data dave says

    @DBR – Be careful what you wish for. I think there are a lot of cross subsidies going on with the Mint pricing. I’ve kind of tussled with cagcrisp about the annual report and how to account for seigniorage (the difference between face value and manufacturing cost). For all of the non precious metal products (mint sets, bags, rolls) the Mint is counting the seigniorage in a separate column and that makes it looks like it loses money on those sets. For PM products they can’t play that game. With the loss of the dollar program this year and very slow sales across the board, the Mint could be showing a net loss and the end of FY2017 (not counting the money they make making dimes and quarters).

    Ultimately, the collector piece of the Mint business is a marginal add on to the main business of stamping out circulating coins. How you account for costs and revenues can be spun many ways.

  37. David says

    I think many of the US Mints products are overpriced. For what you get I really don’t feel the uncirculated and proof sets are worth what is being charged.

  38. data dave says

    @cagcrisp – I try to not make a judgment about whether the price of silver/gold is too high or low when it comes to physical holdings. I am slowly adding to my stash on a steady basis. So I will not recommend to anyone to buy or sell at a particular time, I just recommend that you get the best deal possible when doing that.

    I do trade some EFTs based on how the metals are doing, but I really don’t think it is a wise investment strategy to try to beat the commodities markets.

    I do think keeping 5-20% of your wealth out of the financial system is a good idea. This could be cash, coins, PMs, real estate, etc. But I also think having a stake in the system is good because we are all in this together.

    Based on the price of oil right now, I think both gold and silver are over priced. But so many things can change overnight to upset the markets that I’m not willing to sell all of my holdings based on that thought.

    When people ask me why I like silver I tell them its because it lets me buy gas for $.25 a gallon. About the cost in 1964. They don’t get it but I’m sure readers of this blog understand.

  39. HarryB says

    OT: Why the spike up in PMs over a short period this morning? Looks very unusual to me.

  40. cagcrisp says

    @data dave, ” I try to not make a judgment about whether the price of silver/gold is too high or low when it comes to physical holdings.” I do. I try to buy when I think the market gets it right.

    “I do trade some EFTs based on how the metals are doing, but I really don’t think it is a wise investment strategy to try to beat the commodities markets.” I’ve traded commodities (Nat gas, Oil, corn, soybeans, SBM) for most of my adult life. It is Not for the faint of heart. Continue to trade Oil. No longer any of the other

    “I do think keeping 5-20% of your wealth out of the financial system is a good idea. ” I believe 5%-10% in Gold. Very little in Silver.

    “I think both gold and silver are over priced”. Agreed…

  41. cagcrisp says

    @HarryB ” Why the spike up in PMs over a short period this morning? Looks very unusual to me.”

    ADP employment numbers released on Wednesday showed MUCH stronger numbers than the Labor department showed this morning. The market rallied yesterday off of those numbers. Today’s numbers were Less than expected considering ADP’s numbers.

    The continued strength in the Labor market is one of the Keys to the Fed rate hikes. Today’s weaker than expected number put the Fed rate hikes in jeopardy. Precious Metals rallied on the expectation of fewer rate hikes…

  42. Natatack says

    I think it would boost sales considerably if they would change the reverse of the AGE to the original design and possibly redesign the fractionals as well, 30+ years is a long time and collectors need a change of pace in their gold collection, not counting the first spouse and the various gold commemoratives that have come out in the last few years, tho I thought the BHOF was an excellent and original design.

  43. HarryB says

    @cag: thanks for the response and analysis. I assumed the slow decline yesterday and sharp jump up this morning had to do with the jobs report, but your insight provides the “why”. Harry.

  44. Dustyroads says

    It must be very difficult for the USM to balance it’s books. I see the high premiums on numismatics as a way to bake in, or at least attempt to balance them.

  45. cagcrisp says

    @Dustyroads, ”
    It must be very difficult for the USM to balance it’s books. ”

    Unless something turns Gold sales around and some gimmicks this FY17 will be Challenging.

    The Mint better hope that sales of the Gold HR continues to show Strength…

  46. HB Guy says

    Apart from changes to the Reverse, which I agree would are desirable, the USM should drop the 22-Kt content of this coin and adopt a 24-Kt, or .9999, gold content. The same standard is used for the Gold Buffalo, Gold Maple Leaf and Gold Kangaroo coins. It would be much more fungible with international buyers, too.

    To the best of my knowledge, only the UK still uses the 22-Kt content for its bullion coins, apart from the USM.

  47. earthling says

    I see they’re trying to splash “end of mail order” headlines all over the place. Is this a big deal ? Must be.

    I’m wondering if PCGS has a super special label planned for the last of the Mail Ordered Coins? Will they be there for the moment in History? If they smell money – count on it !


  48. sharks2th says

    @A&L – The platinum proof eagle and gold merc dime are missing from the 2016 schedule. I have not gone through the entire 2016 schedule to see if there are other items which were removed. I do not see why the mint would remove items from the listings just because they are sold out. It seems like a stupid practice if this is what they intend do. It also makes it difficult to get an accurate reference page for previous years.

  49. earthling says

    I’m getting so loaded with Cash by the Mint having nothing to sell ( nothing worthwhile anyway 😦 ) that I’m about to pull the trigger on some foreign Gold or Platinum. Who has the best assortment of worthwhile product? I suppose everyone has competitive pricing.

    Been waiting on some Clark – Gruber Gold from Moonlight Mint but they just have nothing out yet.

  50. Throckmorton says

    earthling – I like to go to coin shows. a few years back I started a collection of twenties – twenties being twenty francs, twenty kronor, twenty marks, etc. The rule was it had to be at least AU condition with eye appeal and within 3% of melt. It it fun to seek out the trophies and negotiate the prices. If you have access to multiple shows at different venues (no flea markets) and get to know which dealers are on the up and up, it can be an enjoyable process to pick up some foreign gold.

  51. earthling says

    Thanks for the tip Throckmorten. I earn so much money working 7/12’s it’s really hard to turn it down – most of the time. But after a couple years of maxing out on OT – I’ve had it. I plan to take Sundays off but sometimes I slip and put a Sunday on the schedule. Talk about regrets.

    On my off time I really enjoy doing very little of anything. Can’t hardly even drag myself out of Bed. Attending a Coin Show is out of the question.

    My idea of Coin buying involves clicking online. I used to just click away on the US Mint website but ever since they robbed me, I try to avoid them at all costs.

    I really think I want a small stack of Gold Britannias soon. If Kitco had them, I’d have clicked already, but…………. they don’t sell them. 😦

    Maybe I’ll look at that British Mint website again. Couldn’t navigate too well the few times I checked it out.

  52. says


    American Eagle 2016 Gold Proof Four-Coin Set West Point (W)
    This item is currently not available.

    2016 Proof Silver Set is back, again, for a 3rd time.., 34

  53. KCSO says

    Provident has random year, any quantity, ASE’s for $1.99 over spot, or $392 per roll.

    Bullion is Bullion, and well, rounds are rounds, and bars, well best made of chocolate 🙂

  54. earthling says

    Here I am broken hearted, came to …… ha ha.

    Well I found out Kitco DOES have Brittanias after all. Funny but I never saw any before. Guess maybe I looked at the wrong time or on the wrong part of the website? Probably they just added them in the last couple months.

    Well, got to decide what I want now. I think I want just one each of Gold , Platinum , and Silver. While I’m at it I’ll start a World Collection. Maybe Aussie stuff and French, German, Swiss and whatever is interesting. But no Chinese , Star Trek or anything with Paint or Nobium on it.

    I might even still get a Buffalo from the US Mint. But for the most part I’m looking to abandon the same old same old.

  55. says

    17RF Rest In Peace

    Went from a nobody, to a rockstar at the top of the charts..,

    All due to a squiggly ‘S’ tattoo..,

    Just goes to prove, what goes sky rocketing up.., must eventually come crashing down… 😉

  56. KCSO says

    2017 Silver Medal –

    Surprised that we haven’t seen a pricing notification come through the Federal Register, the mint has been consistently good about releasing FR notices about 3 to 4 prior to the silver item release.

    If we do not see a FR notification this week pertaining to the Silver Liberty medal, then might assume that they’ll be NO price adjustment and the price will be listed at $34.95.

    If the price is $34.95, then the mint has elected to absorb the cost associated with the high-end box and well made booklet within the cost of the medal and plans to offset the cost through volume. The book and box should easily add, AT LEAST, $7 to $10 to the cost of the medal.

    If the medal price remains the same as last years at $34.95, this this puppy will be Mint-To-Demand and WILL BE available for a good 2 years.

    The only way to off set those additional material cost is through volume, a lot of volume.., and the mint will plan to see a boat load!

  57. cagcrisp says

    It IS looking more and more there will be MTD for the Silver Medal. I would have NEVER believed the Mint would go from a mintage of 12,500 to a MTD. Never. Seems to be NO consistency in mintage and HHL.

    It’s like “OK it’s your turn to come up with mintage and HHL” from various mint leadership.

    125k with HHL of 10 for 2016 Winged Head Liberty dime (I agreed with Both 100%)
    100k with HHL of 1 for 2016 Standing Liberty quarter (100% Disagreement with HHL)
    70k with HHL of 3 for 2016 Walking Liberty half (HHL didn’t matter after the debacle with the Standing Liberty; Walking Liberty had NO chance)
    12.5k with HHL of 2 for 2016 American Liberty Silver medals (I agree with Both 100%)
    75k with Unlimited HHL for 2017 American Silver Eagle “S” (I agree with Both 100%)
    100k with Unlimited HHL for 2017 HR American Liberty Gold (100% Disagreement with mintage)
    LOOKS Like Unlimited and Unlimited for 2017 American Liberty Silver medal (100% Disagreement with ANY MTD product; ANY)…

  58. says

    Who cares what the mint does, because of the crappy design on the 2017 hr 225 anniv. and others bad choices (douglass???) my spending went from averaging $1k a month with the mint to ZERO, NADA, ZILCH and I think the foreign mints offerings are a bigger joke than what the US mint is putting out (who wants coins with the royal hag on them anyway?) My only purchase this year has been the 2017-S ASE and there is nothing coming up I want, especially the weird medals. I’ve been buying old mint and proof sets from the 30’s and 40’s, old gold and to keep my puck collection going I’ve been buying only graded ones because it wouldn’t surprise me one bit to see the douglass p puck end soon, just to make it seem more desirable.

  59. Tom P. - MA says

    @ longarm I agree. My spending per month was probably only 1/10 of what you did, but I this year I just don’t see any need to rush out and buy any of the mint products. I was lucky enough to get a Congratulations “set”, but other than that I’ve only made one other order so far this year. I’ve practically given up on the RCM with all their colored coins. I’m even growing weary of the multitude of silver bullion offerings by foreign governments. 2014 Australia had Koalas and Kookaburras. Now in addition they have spiders, alligators, sharks, and all sorts of other bullion. Canada alone had about 10 different privy marked Maple Leafs last year. It’s going to end up like the 1 ounce silver bar craze of the 70’s. Too much supply.

  60. earthling says

    “Just goes to prove, what goes sky rocketing up.., must eventually come crashing down… ”

    KCSO you said it all right there !

    I’m the type that loves to see my stuff shoot up in value. Unfortunately I sit on it and see the value drop way down. I’m starting to catch on and change up my game plan a lot. With those Congratulation Set SAE’s I was about to say to H with them but figured why not? Well I planned to get maybe 50 of the things and just flip them fast. Well, I put 15 in my Cart, checked out and was going back for more when the trouble started………. ” product not available”.

    When my Sets were delivered, there just happened to be a Coin Show going on, about 3 miles down the road. I’d always wanted to go but never did, so with the sealed box of “2 minute sell out” items, I was finally motivated to go. It turned out to be a very educational experience. The whole mood of the Coin Show was very dull. I can see why there are no Kids interested in Coins these days. A Video Game Console at least offers Mental Stimulation . The boring sameness of bright shiny expensive Coins is just not interesting at all. And once you learn that any Coin you want to buy is a priceless rarity but the same Coin if you want to sell to a Dealer is just junk , who needs that craziness in their life? There was exactly one Dealer in the place with any interest at all. Everyone else probably was interested at 5% under Spot . I ended up flipping this “hot” item for a lousy $20 profit per Coin. That’s all the coin flipping I need in my life . I can do much better maxing out on OT at work. I still have some interest in Foreign PM’s but as for the US stuff, the hook up has come unhooked.

  61. Louis Golino says

    A few points:
    1..) For those who have not taken my advice for the best $20 you can spend and gotten a subscription to Coin World special edition (12 huge monthly issues and online access to 3 weekly issues each month), the issue out today has a great full-page editorial about the Mint’s oops on where ASE’s were struck and the market for these artificial rarities and also for those into medals, QD Bowers has an article that explains medal collectors can contact MCA- Medal Collectors of America, which issues a regular magazine, and get online access to 2 free issues. There is also an article about that JFK centennial medal I told you about, and I got mine yesterday, and it is fabulous, but they are sold out at the moment.

    2.) regarding the congratulations set, how came you folks don’t point out that 2 months later, the PF70’s still bring five times issue price? I just sold one for that. Those who sold sets raw would have done better having them graded, esp. since SF coins tend to be of good quality.

    3.) and now a question for those who collect presidential dollars- Why is it that 2009 William Henry Harrison rolls, esp. Mint-wrapped, sell for so much? Is it the mintage?

  62. KC&SO says

    2.) regarding the congratulations set, how came you folks don’t point out that 2 months later, the PF70’s still bring five times issue price? I just sold one for that. Those who sold sets raw would have done better having them graded, esp. since SF coins tend to be of good quality.

    Very true Lou, on the 70’s being 4x+ of issue (for now)

    Though speaking from experience, PCGS VERY MUCH FAVORS high volume dealers and Big Boy over small timers, so grading thru them is very high risk for many of us.

    And let’s not forget my 2 dozen PCGS graded silver BHoFs, the best $1’s I’ve ever laid eyes on, coming back –

    90% graded 69’s

    & then turning orange and brown, evident by the photos I’ve posted on this blog on numerous occasions.

    Not enough time has passed to prove otherwise that it won’t happen again, and anyone that states otherwise is blowing hot air and needs to have their head examined.

    I cite PCGS as their’s seem to be fetching the high end though surprisingly folks still seem oblivious to what their coins may turn into within a year or two.

    Full disclosure – I did buy 10 of the PCGS 70’s from a dealer at $89 ea and sold them all, along with some in OGP, to buy my gold Liberty for esssential free. So a little PCGS vindication feels good though I do feel sorry for those that bought at those prices, just doesn’t seem right nor will I condone what happened with the release.

    It’s become apparent though that a lot of good and long time collectors have gotten burned or will be burned on the S ASE release, my opinion anyway

    Thanks for the heads up on the subscription, the aforementioned isn’t directed at you per se as much as me venting my frustration at the lack of coherence within the U.S. Mint regarding their policies, or lack of consistency.

  63. A&L Futures says

    Ref: PCGS Submissions

    I sent in nearly two dozen 2017 Congratulations Sets. 75% were slabbed 70, the remains 25% were 69s.

    IMO – you’ve got to pre-screen your submissions prior to sending them in. If possible, loop (10x) them first. It’s well worth the time/effort involved.

  64. earthling says

    Has the World finally found the ” Black Tulip ” ? Way back during the Dutch Tulip craze of the 1400’s ( or was it the 1300’s ? 🤔) , the ultimate treasure was a pure black Tulip . With the recent Rocket-like ascent of Crytocurrencies , it seems like the spirit of the Black Tulip has finally found the World Stage. Have at it people ! For all that worship Money, your Messiah has finally arrived. ☻ 💣

  65. Sith says

    @earthling – Nope, I image that Crytocurrencies are in a bubble, but if so the reason for that is an attempt to protect wealth. The tulip craze was speculative mania. Foe example most of the readers here buy PMs not because it will make them rich, but because during hard times it will protect their purchasing power. The same is true with Crytocurrencies, and the difference is that PMs have been manipulated, while Crytocurrencies due to their very nature are very difficult to manipulate, And no that manipulation is not conspiracy theory, its a fact, as fines have been paid, without admitting guilt of course.

  66. jp says

    @Louis, “3.) and now a question for those who collect presidential dollars- Why is it that 2009 William Henry Harrison rolls, esp. Mint-wrapped, sell for so much? Is it the mintage?”

    Not sure if this is a trick question from you; are you aware that the William Henry Harrison rolls sold out from the Mint?

  67. Sith says

    @Xena – What is their not to understand? Its called theft. You confiscate the people’s gold, and pay $20 an ounce for it. Then after you gathered all the gold, you devaluate those dollars so it now takes $35 to buy the same ounce of gold, but anyone who actually tried to exchange those dollars for gold bullion, was treated like a modern day drug dealer\smuggler.

  68. Louis Golino says

    @jp- Yes, I know, but so did other rolls. Not a big deal. Just wondering if there was more to it.

  69. BTM says

    @Xena – I know, right? Sounds just like the first time I read about this and LBJ’s 1964 removal of silver from coins – no school taught this. Same for the real Thanksgiving story – see William Bradford’s “Of Plymouth Plantation” original text. Moral: socialism/agrarian communism didn’t work and they starved trying it.

    If you’re eager for more info, look into FOFOA’s blogspot. These are posts/reposts of discussions of the free gold concept and how it relates to the Euro.

    AGE: Yes, the original Saint-Gaudens reverse would be nice. Not into the new designs…like an above poster said, if the HR Liberty had the 1796 design, I’d be all over it. I was fortunate to get the WD-SQ-WL set from last year, so it’s on to the First Spouse liberties….

  70. So Krates says

    IMO it is a terrible idea to have yet another completely unoriginal design placed on our bullion coins. The Saint Gaudens design has been done – and redone in 2009. If you want one buy a pre-33 $20 for around $1300 and be happy owning a beautiful piece of history. Is a country of 300M so devoid of culture and artistry we need to channel Augustus…again?

    I don’t want the $50 AGE turning into a copy of the $20 StG. It will be confusing to far off future generations to have two of the same coins with different denominations, weight, and purity. Same for the ASE. We don’t need the WLH on the reverse. Despite the old reverses being superior to the modern bullion ones, it is high time to reach out and break some new design ground. Maybe we do need a global outreach artistic infusion program?

  71. So Krates says

    @ Sith – I agree about the relationship between BTC and Au. One is a proxy for the other if it wasn’t being manipulated.

  72. Sith says

    @So Krates – That was for you view that we need a global outreach artistic infusion program. But also thank you for the support on my comment.

    FYI Apparently the CFTC just announced that “Former Trader David Liew Engaged in Spoofing and Manipulation of the Gold and Silver Futures Markets and Permanently Bans Him from Trading and Other Activities in CFTC-Regulated Markets.” With the irony that during that time frame that this was happening the CFTC was in the middle of it’s “infamous five-year formal silver investigation.” Where it concluded that there was no manipulation charges worthy of pursuing.

  73. Sith says

    @Xena – On a side note, a lot people prefer numismatics over bullion, because “rare” gold coins were not subject to confiscation. But their is no need to buy pre-1933 gold or any gold at inflated premiums as all modern USA government bullion are semi-numismatic. They all have a face value. This is one reason why ASEs\AGEs sell at premium over private bullion. If another confiscation were to go down (very doubtful as we are no longer on the gold standard, and the government can now devalue the dollar at will), you could argue (successfully?) that you have coins, not bullion. You would never be able to argue that point with private mint bullion.

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