2017-P American Liberty silver medal out-sells 2016 edition

2017-american-liberty-silver-medal-packaging-17xb

CoinWeek.com has reported that the 2017-P American Liberty silver medal, which was released yesterday at noon, sold 26,833 units on its first day of availability. The website obtained the information from Todd Martin, deputy chief of the Mint’s Office of Communications. The figure exceeds the number of 2016 American Liberty silver medals purchased on their first and only day of sales—24,440. But how meaningful is that particular statistic?

Comparing the two sales figures is something of an apples-to-oranges effort. The 2016 edition was subject to a mintage limit of 25,000, so it’s impossible to know how much the demand for the medal exceeded its availability—would it have sold 35,000, had they been available? 50,000? How much did the mintage limit stimulate 2016’s sales? Conversely, how much did the lack of any limit dampen 2017’s? The difference in price points is another confounding factor, as the 2017 medal is $59.95 (with silver hovering around $17 per ounce), while the 2016 version was $34.95 (with silver averaging about $18 in August, the month it was released).

The release date for the next offering in the 2017 American Liberty program, the four-coin silver medal set, has yet to be established. In the meantime, the CCAC will be meeting next week to discuss multiple coin and medal topics, including the design for a possible fractional 2018 American Liberty gold coin.   ❑

American Liberty coins and medals are available both raw and graded from Mint News Blog sponsor APMEX.


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Comments

  1. Louis Golino says

    They could have taken the 25K 2016 mintage and topped it off a little to account for unmet demand, say 35K or possibly 40K, and that would have meant an instant sell-out and a lot of happy campers. Let’s see how many returns next week.

  2. You Can't See Me says

    I’m not in a rush to pick this up. It will likely be available through 2018.

  3. gatortreke says

    So I can say this post was partially on topic, I will admit I purchased two Liberty silver medals yesterday. I’ve had several other items I’ve been meaning to order so I waited to purchase them until I decided what I was going to do about the medal. I purchased them fully cognizant of the fact it was probably a poor “investment” not everything we do is about making money.

    Someone posted a comment recently about Provident Metals and how it is owned by Elemetal, the the mint that produced several popular silver rounds. The comment referred to another division of Elemetal that is in trouble with the Feds. I did a web search and found several articles about the issue but I’m curious as to whether someone more knowledgeable about the company and issues believes it is safe to order items currently from Provident or whether you believe the mint may be in jeopardy of having to shut its doors in the foreseeable future. I’ve used Provident on a number of occasions but the story about the Elemetal problems has raised caution flags and makes me somewhat leery of using them despite my positive experiences in the past. Any info/opinion is appreciated!

  4. Louis Golino says

    gatortreke- I am not certain, but I think Provident has a certain degree of independence from them, so you should be okay. CoinWeek had a good piece on the whole controversy you may want to check. And Elemetal (are you reading this???) owes me for 2 articles I wrote for them.

  5. Buzz Killington says

    @gator

    Does this mean the White Whale is going to be the last Privateer 2 oz. silver round? I think they’ve mined this concept for all its worth — I don’t associate whales with pirates. I would like to complete the series, but I’m not paying $50 for the whale one.

  6. Sith says

    So much for my guesstimate

    @So Krates – My bad! I was not sure if you were being tongue in cheek. It was hard to tell as “Just Another Dave in PA”‘s post was so outrageous. I should have known better. I’m just tired I guess. Again my bad.

    @Buzz Killington- I agree, but you missed the point I was trying to make. She sued Cosby after the DA dropped the case. I guess new DA, new agenda, but promising to pursue a popular case can back fire.Nifog got elected in a landslide with the promised to prosecute the Duke Lacrosse team. Lets just say it did not end up as well as he had hoped

  7. Sith says

    @gatortreke – If you are worried I would simply buy with a credit card. That way you are covered by their buyer protection. As far as buying from Provident they seem sound, but if you want to play it safe, and don’t want to pay the credit card fee, then simply buy their product in spurts. They offer free shipping on orders over a hundred dollars, and PMs are not moving up. IE don’t put in a massive order, or “never place an order so large enough that it will cause you financial harm if something goes wrong.”

    FYI NTR Metals Miami was a indirect subsidiary of Elemetal. A subsidiary is partly or completely owned by the parent company, which holds a controlling interest in the subsidiary. But an “indirect” subsidiary is where a company owns shares of another (1 or more) company and that company owns shares of the subsidiary. IE It looks like Elemetal\Provident is safe. The customers of Elemetal Refining should get paid within six months, without dipping into customer or other subsidies metal accounts

  8. TemplePriestess says

    This sold better than I imagined it would. Guess the mints strategy paid off for them. A higher price, no limitations, and other medals in the pipeline to complete the set. Really would have made it more appealing if they had set a mintage limit at those prices. I suppose people collect medals for the same reason pure coin collectors do. The apparition of the art form and not as any kind of real investment.

  9. Joe M. says

    1st day sales…24, 440.
    24,000 were orders from big boys, 440 were general public
    😉
    Just messin’ around with the #’s………
    ….I wonder how many ORDERS were placed, not total medals. As was pointed out in another post, how many returns(in the first month) will occur?
    Short-term, take your profit if you can get it.
    Long-term, only silver going over $50 will save this “investment”.
    🙁
    (I didn’t buy this) 🙂

  10. The Real "Cool" Brad says

    I wasn’t going to buy the medal even though I think it looks nice, the price is a bit much. However, I had some money in my paypal account that was just sitting there. I bought one for both of my sons to go with the 2016s. I realize they probably will be lucky to retain the initial asking price, but at least I can inspect them and return if there are any problems. My “w” minted 2016 medal had a few small milk spots on them but I knew they couldn’t be returned so I pretty much had to suck it up and hold on to it.

  11. earthling says

    This stuff about the ethnic Liberties is getting out of hand. Now they want to put out a smaller Gold version? Sounds like BS to me.

    If they really want to make this new image of Liberty accessible to the masses they need to get off this kick about overpriced Gold and Silver junk. How about ditching the Kennedy Half – which everyone is tired of anyway and come out with a 225th Liberty Half Dollar? Of course seeing the way things have gone , they’d want $29.95 each for the Clad treasures.

    I say strike up 225,000,000 and put them out there at face value ! Make this a 225th Anniversary that EVERYONE will remember.

    Forget all that overpriced PM “Old White Man Feed” . Put out some Nacho Chips , Potatoe Chips, Pretzels, Popcorn, and Lolipops…. for everyday citizens !

    So could they put a Half Dollar Program together by the end of 2017? Maybe but certainly a 2018 could fly. On second thought, that would involve Congress……..

    💃👪👲👷

  12. John Q. Coinage says

    Wow…. Snookered again my sales prediction got blowed up reel good! Oh well, funny I don’t have any feeling about it either way. Hope it’s a hit, but as others said UNLESS silver hits 50$ an oz. no sure any leg$ here. People paying 3x spot for a silver medal…..gheesh You can get the recent USMint wildlife medals for a little over spot & their mintage will be well under the 2o17 when all is done & said. Or you can get 3 ag ASEs…….or………..maybe save it up for the four coin medal set….@…$245…….

  13. cagcrisp says

    How I arrived at My $225.00 price target for the Proposed 1/10 oz. Gold American Liberty $10

    The Mint Raised the price of the 1/10 oz. Winged Head Liberty dime by $30 vs. pricing grid. Just using the same pricing as the Winged Head Liberty at the current spot price of Gold brings the $10 Gold American Liberty in at $210.00.

    The Winged Head Liberty was Not a proof. (Not saying the Proposed $10 will be a proof either)

    However….The Mint jacked up the Price on the Medals and the only justification is see is that they COULD.

    They CAN on the One and Only 1/10 oz. Gold $10 piece …

    …SO Again…Why Not? Why Not? Why Not?

    IF it ain’t broke don’t fix it.

    The Mint Needs the Revenue/Profit

    The Mint raised the price of the Silver medals, why Not raise the price of the 1/10 oz. Gold $10 to $225.00?

    The same people that fell all over themselves buying the 1 oz. Gold , the 1 oz. Silver medal will Again fall all over themselves to get the $225.00 American Liberty Gold $10…

    @$1,690.00 the 1 oz. $100 Gold piece is 35% Over spot
    @$205.00 the $5 Winged Head Liberty Gold piece was 71% Over spot
    @$225.00 the $10 Gold piece would be 80% Over spot
    @$59.95 the 1 oz. Silver medal is Currently 260% Over spot

    IF you show me someone willing to pay 35% Over spot for a Modern $100 1 oz. Gold and 260% Over spot for a Modern 1 oz. Silver Medal then I will show you someone willing to pay 80% Over spot for a Low Mintage Wonder 1/10 oz. Gold $10 piece (It’s a Low Mintage Wonder because we’ve Never had a 1/10 oz. Gold $10 piece, so No matter what the mintage, it will be the clubhouse leader)…

  14. says

    1st Day Sales of 26,833 –

    Wow, that’s impressive,

    Shocking, though impressive.

    If the dealers did come out in force as some suggest, I share that sentiment greatly, & might there be a massive dump on the bay in due time.

    Anyone else sense that this offering, specific to how it evolves on the bay, could replicate what we witnessed with the Gold Kennedy Half?

    The big difference being that gold Kennedy was <40% premuim over spot, unlike Liberty medal's 260% over spot. And then there's the coin vs medal argument.

    Train wreck leading to opportunity?

    Will be interesting to see how P Proofs grade out.

  15. Dustyroads says

    cag, I see the mint doing the 1/10 as a proof. If that’s the case, they can easily justify $225.00. Although, $205.00 would be more in line with “special pricing” on an issue like this. I think the big beautiful box faze has begun.

  16. cagcrisp says

    UPDATED NUMBERS FROM MY PREVIOUS POST ON 06/10/17

    • cagcrisp says
    June 10, 2017 at 9:50 am

    $59.95 for the American Liberty Silver Medal

    Everyone is asking Why ? Why ? Why?

    …And I’m asking…

    Why Not? Why Not? Why Not?

    In 2016 there were a Total of 24,359 American Liberty Silver Medals sold @ $34.95 for a Total of $851,347.05

    To get the SAME Revenue as 2016 the Mint will only need to sell 14,201 of the 2017 “P” medals.

    Actual Launch Day sales were 26,833

    26,833 @ $59.95 = $1,608,638 or an Increase in Revenue of 89% and a Considerable Increase in Profit

    …SO…I ask Why Not ? Why Not? Why Not?

    The Mint has created these non monetized medals for a revenue/profit stream SO…

    …That’s what you are getting…

    The Mint will Continue down the road of Higher and Higher prices and Lower and Lower mintages…

  17. says

    Joe M……your call that 24,000 were orders from big boys, 440 were general public is spot on.

    I just got an e-mail from MCM. They are selling 23 versions……labels, cores, release moments, etc. in 70’s and 21 versions in 69’s. That’s virtually 44 choices between 2 near grades. Choices show there’s a mint building, a flag, a scales of justice, another picture of liberty……..! This is insane and out of control. Our hobby has been hijacked by the profiteers. How many versions are needed? One is missing…..I’m waiting on the Adam West label. I might actually by that one.

  18. earthling says

    Will there be a Beyonce Signature version? Can we get a kissed by Michele Lip Print version? How about a Current Events Cool Coz groped her version?

    Personally I’m just watching in awe at this current Mint wreck. Our Government in operation.

  19. cagcrisp says

    As Long as people Continue to purchase the 2017 “S” ASE in OGP for $100+

    …AND…

    As Long as people Continue to purchase the 2017 “S” ASE in 70 for $240+

    …THE…

    MCMs of the world will Continue to do what they do

    Why would They not?…

  20. Joe M. says

    @ WCubes
    Yup, it would be interesting to know how many orders were placed. $10,000 sure buys a lot of these!
    😉

  21. Tom says

    Well, I must confess. I ordered 100 of the 2017 Liberty medals. But in remembrance of the 2017 Congratulations Set, I waited 2 minutes and cancelled my order.

  22. Ernesto says

    I got one but didn’t like the higher price. When the rest are released I hope they don’t charge as much but I doubt it.

  23. earthling says

    So when will the US Mint hop on the Cartoon Bandwagon? Actually I think I could get into Betty Boop Liberty – in Silver , but not in Gold ! Olive Oyl, Wilma, Veronica, etc , would be really cool.

    When the Mint is doing Boys Town and Lions Club, you just know the Cartoons are getting near.

  24. Dustyroads says

    So, the USM did sell more of the BHoF gold coins than was legally warranted.

    “The probe determined that the West Point Mint struck 32,500 Proof and 17,750 Uncirculated Baseball gold $5 half eagles for a combined total of 50,250 coins — 250 coins more than the legislated authorization.

    It was determined through the investigation that the Mint commonly produces coins above the statutory limit to replace “damaged or unwanted” coins.”

    http://www.coinworld.com/news/us-coins/2017/06/us-mint-oversells-gold-baseball-commemoratives.html

  25. DBR says

    I didn’t read through the 2017 ASL Medal’s specifications with a fine toothed comb and I wish it was a HR strike. And so I’m hoping that this medal will “visually pop” based on how it was made; perhaps more pressure used like on our Uncirculated coin sets.

    Some of our medals are way more handsome in design and execution than the coins imho.

    I didn’t purchase the 2016 S & W Liberty silver medals. It may have to be a retroactive purchase now if I want the full set. I recall stating last year that I don’t collect medals but I admired the medals in the Coin & Chronicles Sets and being able to view some of the large medals in person at the 2016 World Fair of Money in Anaheim. U.S Mint had a nice booth.

  26. Dustyroads says

    DBR, This years medal is not UHR like many hoped last years medals would be, however, looking at the pictures it does appear that these medals may be the same relief as last years which is somewhat more than the standard relief.

  27. So Krates says

    WRT Provident (AKA Elemetal Online), why take a chance? Elemetal Refining can’t pay it’s customers for metals sent to them. Their gold bars are no longer accceptable for trading on the LBMA and COMEX. There are also reports that some small bars are less than .999 fine. How many red flags do you need? There are many other sellers of the same products with no problems.

  28. Sith says

    So Krates – Valid points, but in their defense, because their refinery is now closed, they have to send the gold to other refineries, and that is after the acquire a new source of gold. According to Elemetal it’s a 4 month wait to get another company to refine the gold. You are also assuming that gatortreke is buying Elemetal rounds, not government bullion. The gold bars are not accepted on the LBMA and COMEX because they were obtained from illegal drug cartel mines. IE they are the equivalent of “blood diamonds.”

    Now saying all that, I never understood why people keep buying from red flag bullion dealers. People kept buying from the NWT mint for years, all to save $.50 an ounce. Sure it could be argued with a massive order that is a significant savings, but only if your money was not caught with the 50 million in bullion NWT Mint owed it customers, after it went bankrupt.

    I would hate for Provident to fail. They showed up “lean and mean.” After their arrival their was a noticeable drop in premiums, and better customer service from their competitors. Anyway your advice is sound, and it should not cause any harm to wait the 6 months it takes them to make good on their customer’s back-orders .

  29. Louis Golino says

    Coin World (if you are a subscriber with digital access) reported today that Fri. the Mint sold another 6K medals with the total now over 30K.

  30. earthling says

    😅😥

    Apply riding crop vigorously here. Come on come on. I need to see the orders pour in. My guess of 39,093 seems to be a possibility.

    I’d like to think I know the way those Slabber Fools operate. Which is BIG and wide open.

    😰😀

  31. gatortreke says

    Re: Provident, I’m not interested currently in any gold, just junk silver and silver government products. My main concern is closure while in possession of my funds without delivery. If the risk is low, I’m willing to go with them. I’d hate to see them fail not because of the refinery issues but because everyone stays away from their public shop leading to dramatic revenue loss.

  32. Xena says

    Ugh. Navy Federal just got rid of their coin machines 🙁 No more free coin counting.

    Roll searchers – does the coin star gift card thing work well? Certainly not going to pay 11%, but I also don’t have a lot of time to re-roll a bunch of coins. Guess I could buy on of those things that helps you roll the coins. Or give up roll searching.

    On the bright side, I got a Bob Ross head/tail roll and 2 new 2017 rolls of nickels. And I got a good deal from my LCS on 2 Pandas and a Kook. I have about half of the Kooks now, but still have a lot more Pandas to go.

    Still looking for a roll or 2 of 17P pennies…

  33. Throckmorton says

    so naturally here come the 2017 Libertads which I would normally buy from Provident.

    What to do, what to do?

  34. You Can't See Me says

    Xena, I use the coin star machines and take full value in an Amazon gift card. The machine issues a paper receipt with the gift card number which can then be loaded into your Amazon account.
    Last time I used it, they did not offer eBay gift cards but there were other options.

  35. Tom says

    Is it me or….? I notice the closing for silver at Provident is 8 cents less than what JM Bullion has posted. 16.68 and 16.76.

  36. JakeInTX says

    I’ve been reading the comments here but haven’t posted before. I need to return a high value coin to the mint because it’s defective. I’ve never returned anything to the mint before. I plan to return it using USPS Registered Mail but before I do, I remember reading a post on this blog that someone had a problem returning an American Gold Eagle; that the mint claimed they never received it. Does anyone know if this was ever resolved? Should I just keep the item and not take the chance at returning it? Or does shipping it using registered mail cover me if the mint denies it received the coin back?

  37. DBR says

    @ Dustyroads
    Thanks for your read on the medal’s relief. I thought the picture showed a more pronounced relief too.

    My order shipped for the 2017 Liberty silver medal. . And I’ve been checking eBay for the 2016 W and S Liberty silver medal. Most MS 69’s are offered at $150. MS 70 UC PL are priced higher.

  38. Yes, But...You Can't Take It With You says

    Xena wrote:

    Roll searchers – does the coin star gift card thing work well? Certainly not going to pay 11%, but I also don’t have a lot of time to re-roll a bunch of coins.

    I’ve used Coinstar many times to get rid of my change and always get a gift card so as not to pay the fee. I almost always get Starbucks gift cards and have never had a problem with it working the way it’s supposed to.

    If you have a casino anywhere close by you might try that as well. Some of them offer coin counting services for free so that they can get you in the door.

  39. MintyFresh says

    I know this is a US Mint blog and I do enjoy the SAE’s but most of this other stuff is just is in no way an investment. You guys talk list this stuff is an investment, it is not. Almost all of it loses money unless some confluence of events (like surprise limited mintage..rare) occurs. Otherwise you bet wrong …Again.

    I mean if you like little cardboard and wooden boxes with shiny , overpriced, polished bullion then by all means..COLLECT. Cuz you aint investing folks

  40. joe says

    Glad I was able to get the 2016 medals and glad I missed these. Both the 2016 gold coin and silver medals look nice; these, not so much.

    As for Provident, I’ve used them several time and they’ve been great so far. I agree that if someone has a concern, it may give more peace of mind to use a credit card for any purchases. Personally, I’ve never purchased any Elemental/OPM-branded products to my knowledge other than non-precious metals.

  41. So Krates says

    @ MintyFresh – Most of the posters here are well aware that these purchases are either for enjoyment or speculation, not investment. Can’t hurt to remind us though

    That being said, I squeezed a 127% (3300% annualized) return out of the 17RF . I assume that will be a higher yield than from any of my other “investments” this year.

  42. Tom says

    I for one do not assume I will make a mint off the Mint. I buy what I like from the Mint with very little regard as to what direction it may go in price later on.

  43. earthling says

    So will the Mint give us first weeks Sales data on that Medal? The first days sales were strong – considering. I see no reason for them to hide the numbers but then this is the US Mint we’re talking about.

  44. says

    MintyFresh…..you’re right. And wrong. It takes all kinds. “You guys talk list this stuff is an investment, it is not”. Very, very few are looking to invest here. If it turns out to pay off in time, great. That’s kinda the luck of the draw, so to speak. I believe most here are to collect and enjoy. Most here have been collecting for a long time, lifetime. You should collect what you love. The pursuit of that missing item makes it fun and challenging, especially at the right price. You can see person by person, in the way they write, who’s collecting and who’s flipping. I still have my first 1972 Kennedy Half that I got on my paper route……in 1972! I value it almost more than anything. Look past the dollar value to the real value…..

    Happy Father’s Day to all!

  45. Throckmorton says

    Louis, thank you sir. I see what you mean. Provident is the home boy so to speak so I try to support them. They used to show up at the local shows with really nice deals but they have been absent for awhile.

  46. cagcrisp says

    @earthling “So will the Mint give us first weeks Sales data on that Medal?” Whether You are the Guesstimate winner on not, you surely are in the mix.

    The Last reported numbers that I saw were 30,824 (And you have Fri, Sat and Sun sales yet to be reported)

    Here is a resort of Guesstimates:

    Sith 7,000
    BigC 9,321
    Mattarch 9,900
    gatortreke 9,999
    Mark Rex 10,000
    John Q. Coinage 11,300
    Tom P. -MA 12,500
    You Can’t See Me 13,111
    Throckmorton 14,150
    Xena 14,525
    Barry 15,500
    paddy 15,535
    Montana John 16,470
    KCSO 17,000
    Karl Meyer 18,000
    Asherspapa 18,500
    So Krates 18,600
    Tinto 18,888
    cagcrisp 20,157
    Tom 20,158
    Zephin 21,100
    isp_stuff 21,250
    Stipey 22,000
    DBR 22,000
    CF 22,500
    Mike the Greek 22,607
    JARHEADnFLORIDA 24,000
    Alex in MA 27,000
    Dustyroads 27,500
    Joe M. 32,345
    Johnaz 36,000
    Don 36,000
    earthling 39,093

  47. Dustyroads says

    DBR, I wish you had picked up the 2016’s. They are better looking in hand with what appears to be a slight relief because of the field that rises a little around the edges. I believe the USM wanted to clear up any confusion about the 2017 medals after last years release had so many people asking about it. I can assure you they look better than the relief on the standard ASE.

  48. Louis Golino says

    If you are not a member of the ANA, you can join for $14 a year until July 15, which is half off the regular
    membership dues. It comes with tons of benefits and you are supporting the organization that does more to promote the hobby than any other group.

  49. Yes, But...You Can't Take It With You says

    I will try this again to see if I still go into “awaiting moderation” status if I avoid using brand names. The weekends are long when you are awaiting moderation… 🙂

    Xena wrote:

    “Roll searchers – does the coin star gift card thing work well? Certainly not going to pay 11%, but I also don’t have a lot of time to re-roll a bunch of coins.”

    I’ve used coin star many times to get rid of my change and always get a gift card so as not to pay the fee. I almost always get starbux gift cards and have never had a problem with it working the way it’s supposed to.

    If you have a casino anywhere close by you might try that as well. Some of them offer coin counting services for free so that they can get you in the door.

  50. Xena says

    Louis – where are you seeing the ANA discount, I don’t see it on their website? Wondering if it’s good for renewals. I have a little more than a year then I will qualify for the discount on life membership, so have to renew for one more year.

  51. Barry says

    Just because something loses money doesn’t mean it is not a investment. Investments lose money all the time. Based on the idea of a previous post I could argue that many bonds are not a investment because money is lost after taxes and inflation. The person really gets to decide right or wrong what he considers a investment. There is nothing wrong with differences of opinion.

  52. Xena says

    Louis – thanks. Great deal for any of you that aren’t members.

    Caught up on my reading – nice article about coin design (or lack thereof). I’d like to see our circulating coins revamped. Most folks don’t collect coins and certainly gold and platinum are out of reach of most. So generating interest from the general public has got to be through regular coins. Too bad CCAC wasn’t successful getting Congress to approve liberty designs (as you mentioned in your article). This is where we need sustained and enthusiastic leadership from the Mint.

  53. Xena says

    Happy Father’s Day to all. It’s my second Father’s Day without my Dad. Thanks for getting me into coin collecting, Dad.

  54. gatortreke says

    Xena: Yes, it is too bad that Congress did not implement the new Liberty concept but even more important, than that is the status quo with our monetary structure has very little hope of being revamped. A Congress that can’t see fit to get us a new Mint Director for over half a decade isn’t likely to make whatever necessary changes are needed to our monetary structure to keep coins relevant.

    Though we’re told inflation is non-existent and right now it may be low, the Fed still has a 2% inflation target meaning over the coming years the value of our denominations will become worth even less than they are now. We all know practically that the cent, nickel and dime have very little or no relevance to commerce. That leaves the quarter and dollar coins left to do all the heavy lifting. Charles Morgan of CoinWeek discussed in one of his podcasts how he intentionally spent a year trying to spend dollar coins as part of his daily commercial transactions. His takeaway was this, that the dollar coin has very little spending power itself, much less than we may still think it might. This means we need to be rethinking our coin structure completely with a possible $2.50 and $5 coin. Ignoring the ravages of inflation with regards to our coinage drives people away from using coins faster than what otherwise may be the case because people aren’t dumb, they know how little value our coins really have.

    If we want to have any chance of holding on to coin usage in daily commercial transactions, we have to give the people something worth using. If we can’t do this, we might as well give up any hope that coins will be used in commercial transactions in the decades to come.

    Rant over. Let me end by wishing Happy Father’s Day to all father’s on this board and elsewhere. I cherish my little girl and am so glad I have the opportunity to be her father!!

  55. KML in KY says

    Hey JakeInTX – If you have a defective coin you would like to return to the Mint there is no reason to spend your own money to ship the coin back to them. If you call them they will send you a prepaid return label. There is no reason to keep a defective coin. I’ve returned quite a few coins to the Mint. Only once did I have a problem getting refunded for a coin. After about a month and a half going back and forth with the Mint I called my credit card company and they took care of it.

    I passed on the Liberty medal due to mediocre design, unlimited mintage, and price too high. If I get a 4-coin set later I’ll pick one up later to go with it.

  56. cagcrisp says

    We are going Towards a cashless society.

    IF the Federal government wants to go to a cashless society then why oh why would they change the designs of circulating coinage.

    The Mint has NO reason to change our coinage designs OR change coinage denominations.

    It’s much easier to wean you away from something if you don’t use it.

    Those that Want the penny eliminated, Great. That’s just another step forward on the cashless society road…

  57. cagcrisp says

    Gold is dropping Below support level of $1,250.00

    I’ve said Before when Silver was Above $17.50 that Silver Should be closer to $16 than $17.

    Currently Silver is heading in that direction.

    Silver is Down 5% in 8 trading sessions…

  58. gatortreke says

    @cagcrisp: I understand what you are saying about the cashless society, also why the government wouldn’t do anything to update the coinage to something more useful and relevant if they want the people to move away from using cash. However, I’m left with this question, can the world’s reserve currency be electronic only?

  59. Old Big Bird says

    Perhaps I might have missed a discussion about this, but the Commission of Fine Arts recommended the 2019 coins for Apollo 11 as written up in Coin World on June 17th. I might be a set of 4 curved coins.

    $5 gold coin – silver dollar coin – copper-nickel clad half dollar – 5 ounce silver dollar

    Now that would be one nice set of coins

  60. cagcrisp says

    @gatortreke ” However, I’m left with this question, can the world’s reserve currency be electronic only?”

    In 2011 ages 23-34 reported 39% of transactions were done “All/Most purchases with cash”

    In 2016 the same age group answered 21% of transactions were done “All/Most purchases with cash”

    Currently I would say it’s 15%-18%…And dropping…

  61. Scott says

    re: “can the world’s reserve currency be electronic only?” Answer: Why not it’s all created out of thin air anyway.

  62. Tom P. - MA says

    We are moving towards a cashless society whether we like it or not. In general I don’t really care. I will care if they start a campaign to make cash “old fashioned”, “for people with something to hide” etc, etc. The obvious downsides to a cashless society are power failures and hackers. Banks will want a fee for each and every transaction (remember when they told us ATM’s would be free?)

    Coin designs won’t really encourage new collectors. Just about every quarter in change now has a different design. What more can you do?

  63. John Q. Coinage says

    Ca$hless society = Big Bro knows all about you, your likes, dislikes, & what you got & how you got it, do WE really want this? I doubt many here would but Gov’t will say drug money, money launderers, or criminals need cash so why does an honest citizen need “cash”……it will take along time but it will go away, but 1st people will be more wiling to accept gov’t controls over their lives, economic & otherwise. When we have babies chipped @ birth (like dogs…and the day will come…) then we will be on the road to no ca$hTHEY will know who you are, where you’re born, etc. When you go to an airport/spaceport they’ll wand you like a dog & know EVERYTHING. Cash will be touted as evil (see Europe now…) , you will have a chip implanted in your hand to pay, or an Iphone in your arm/chest….I can see that, but I’ll be gone…my kids will look back as these being the good ole dayz… Gold & silver will be wild cards in a ca$hless society…

  64. Sith says

    @Tom P. – MA – That campaign has already started.

    – In an unscheduled televised address on 8 November Prime Minister Narendra Modi gave the nation just four hours notice that 500 ($7.30; £6) and 1,000 rupee notes would no longer be legal tender. The decision was taken to crack down on corruption and illegal cash holdings known as “black money”.
    – The European Central Bank announced Wednesday that it will phase out the 500 euro banknote because of concerns that this banknote “could facilitate illicit activities.”
    – JP Morgan Chase restricted cash payments on credit cards and loans after restricting cash deposits.
    – In France, , it’s illegal to make purchases of more than 1,000 euros in cash.
    – Italy banned cash payments above 1,000 euros

    IMHO the bottom line is that in 1934 the government banned gold ownership in order to implement monetary policy. Today cash has become a major hurdle for monetary policy.

  65. John Q. Coinage says

    Sith to top it off, several banks now charge you for large cash deposits. They also ask you silly ? when you deposit ca$h to see if they will file a “Suspicious Activity Report”…..same IF you put in a check for say a $14,000 annual tax free ‘gift’……..”oh what are you getting so much $ for…” We eliminated $500 & $1k bills for the same reason, the real truth will come ouit if the USA/Fed ever announces any demonitization of a ca$h call….a la India

  66. Barry says

    From what I’ve read there is not enough physical cash to cover all bank deposits etc… So part and who knows maybe most of our currency is digital.

    We can already be tracked on our cell phones to some degree. our program viewing is no doubt kept by Netflix and other services, Google records internet searches. Facebook collects private info , the banking / finance system records our transactions. We are being watched more than we know imo.

  67. earthling says

    Why does any one person have $30 or $40 Billion or even more. Do they really need all that? If Cash is so evil, how and why did they get all that and why do they need to squeeze every drop out of the common man?

    Something really stinks in this world of ours.

  68. cagcrisp says

    @earthling, the Richest 8 men in the World have more money than the poorest 50% of the World.

    Six of the Eight are Americans and One got a Whole lot richer with the Proposed acquisition of Whole Foods…

  69. Sith says

    @cagcrisp – He got richer based on stock from a company that core business have yet to log a profit

    @earthling – Its not about money. Its about power.

    @John Q. Coinage, & Barry – Hear, hear!

  70. John Q. Coinage says

    Barry, you are likely right, not for THAT reason, but I am not on Facebook, no Iphone (I tell my family “when they’re perfected..”) Netflix may know habits, but I also still buy DVD’s ! banks know way 2 much as does GOOGLE but good luck finding out what they know, what is scary is the link ups from people you get emails on phishing or LInked in, etc. I am a real old phart somehow & yet not even 60……..alot of the intrusions are along the lines of….well IF you have nothing to hid why do YOU mind? Because I do….. But I can the younger genration has a more benefit of the many over the benfit of the 1 POV…..

  71. John Q. Coinage says

    Barry, you are likely right, not for THAT reason, but I am not on Facebook, no Iphone (I tell my family “when they’re perfected..”) Netflix may know habits, but I also still buy DVD’s ! banks know way 2 much as does GOOGLE but good luck finding out what they know, what is scary is the link ups from people you get emails on phishing or LInked in, etc. I am a real old phart somehow & yet not even 60……..alot of the intrusions are along the lines of….well IF you have nothing to hid why do YOU mind? Because I do….. But I can the younger genration has a more benefit of the many over the benfit of the 1 POV….. Sith that Bezos’ story is something else….

  72. Barry says

    @John= also “if your not doing anything wrong there is nothing to be concerned about”. Of course the way it works is that someone else gets to determine right or wrong. This whole cashless push is a example. “Why maybe you are doing something wrong if you are using cash or some other way of shaming. They will push a narrative and implement laws that they hope will gradually get them to their objective.

  73. gatortreke says

    @John Q. Coinage: I heard a discussion regarding Facebook that even many who have no Facebook account have a “shadow”profile, built based on photos, discussions, etc…, in which the person is shown or discussed, with this a profile is developed. Unless you have a cloaking device (Star Trek reference), it would seem there is no place to hide.

  74. John Q. Coinage says

    Barry, you r right, ca$h will be painted as evil, a waste of time, here use this little card for your $$…..there are issues now here in CALIF with the legalization of 42o & a Federal banning bank account/checks for MMJ sellers & there will be many next year, est. $1billion in tax earnings. yowser!!

    gatortek, indeed my web social presence is cloaked like a Romulan Bird of Prey (!)…anyway I have yet to find such, my kids had facebook pgs. for awhile but no more….everything else THEY are on snapchat, etc. me I read a newspaper still….put stamps on envelopes & make my credit card payment @ the bank! That is weird per my wife..oh well. I have found shadow site like Linked In & others that have a page for me to ‘claim” wtf, no way man…. eventually I hope to find a decent house on the far west side of Maui…solar powered & with some garden land…

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