2017-W American Buffalo gold Proof coins available May 11


The U.S. Mint will begin accepting orders for the 2017-W American Buffalo 1-ounce gold Proof coin (product code 17EL) at noon Eastern Time on May 11.

The American Buffalo gold Proof coin was the first 24-karat gold Proof to be struck by the Mint. The obverse and reverse designs are based on James Earle Fraser’s original Indian Head / Buffalo nickel designs. The obverse bears the profile of a Native American with the inscriptions LIBERTY, 2017, the initial F (for Fraser), and the mintmark W (for the U.S. Mint at West Point). The coin’s reverse features an American buffalo, also known as the bison, with the inscriptions UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, E PLURIBUS UNUM, IN GOD WE TRUST, $50, 1OZ., and .9999 FINE GOLD. Full specifications are as follows:

Denomination $50
Finish Proof
Composition 99.99% gold
Diameter 1.287 inches (32.70 mm)
Weight 1.0000 troy ounce (31.103 g)
Edge Reeded
Mint and mintmark West Point (W)

Each American Buffalo 1-ounce gold Proof coin is displayed on an adjustable platform in an elegant, matte-finish, hardwood presentation case. A certificate of authenticity is included.


The gold Buffalo Proof is the next-to-last item currently listed on the Mint’s product schedule; it is followed by the annual Uncirculated Set (17RJ) on May 17. Mint News Blog is watching for updates to the schedule and will post them as soon as they are available.   ❑

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  1. jp says

    This coin is nicer looking (and more expensive) as proof gold than as uncirculated nickel. I look forward to purchasing it.

  2. says

    An awesome looking coin when it first came out in 2006 and it still is today

    Now how about another fractional set like 2008

  3. KC&SO says

    So Krates says
    MAY 8, 2017 AT 5:31 PM

    Baldwin-How can we have a conversation if you never answer my simple questions?

    HAHAHA, thanks for the laugh!

    It’s called – DNFTFT

    Baldwin, sometimes ya just got to a paint a picture for it stick! 😉

    But yes, bring forth the Fractionals of this amazing Beauty!

  4. KC&SO says

    Old Big Bird –

    If the mint is true to form, we should have the June Product Schedule up either on Tuesday or Wednesday morning by 0200 EST.

    I won’t be checking at that hour, so perhaps some of our West Coast brethren will post when it occurs.

    We should see the Silver HR ‘P’ listed,

    though who knows with this outfit running things anymore

  5. sharks2th says

    @KC&SO – Didn’t you hear about the new AUE, American Uranium Eagle coming out using the Peace Dollar design and being minted at Carson City? The rays coming out of her head represent the “glow in the dark” effect of the radiation. You will be able to use this coin in the dark when you are fumbling for change at the soda machine. The pricing grid is still being developed for the proof version, but will fluctuate with electricity demand and be based on the value of the carbon credits created by the use of reactive fuels. This will also allow the government to reduce the spent fuel stockpiles, like they did with the silver stockpiles beginning back in 1986. 🎇💰😎

  6. So Krates says

    Keep Calm and Squeak On -It doesn’t take much to make a simpleton laugh.

    Baldwin is engaging me and asking many questions of me, all the while avoiding my direct questions and trying to figure out what I analogies I am making and what point I’m trying making. Almost as if he answers, he’ll be somehow trapped. Since he’s scurred, I’ll answer for him. It’s quite clear that:

    Sunday elections are better than Tuesdays… if you want MORE participation, especially of the workers and students, i.e., more Democracy

    Tuesday elections with no National Holiday are better than Sundays… if you want LESS participation, i.e., less Democracy.

    Yes France is Liberal. France votes on Sundays. The Liberals have the CORRECT position about voting on Sunday. France is BETTER in this aspect

    We vote on Tuesday. This is not a liberal position. It is the WRONG day to vote. We live in the only advanced democracy that makes it more difficult to vote. The US is WORSE in this aspect.

    In this case “Liberals” are correct and the “Right” is wrong.

  7. says

    I don’t know what’s worse –

    Your pointless off topic garbage or those ridiculous tweets from POTUS,

    Both fall into the same s$!+ can catagory

  8. says

    sharks2th – Nice, too funny!
    Though somehow I don’t feel I’ll be able to afford one, nor want to!

    Thanks for posting MGM, love it!

  9. Barry says

    I think anyone who collects coins should have a gold proof coin in their collection if possible. Do some research online and find some designs you like. Then maybe go to a coin show and search for them there. as sometimes pictures don’t do the coins justice. Make sure to give our proof Buffalos and Eagles a look and in the end buy what you like. My only suggestion is to get a 1/4 oz. or larger as it is easier to see the design.

  10. Buzz Killington says

    @SK —

    Being a “liberal” I am inclined on instinct to agree with you.

    Yet, I think it remains an open question about whether increasing turnout would change the direction of American politics in an appreciable way.

    Working class voters are continually tricked into voting against their own economic interests. We see this all across the South, where generally speaking the Democrats would expand the social safety that more people in the Bible belt happen to take advantage of, then people in the richer Northeast and West coast. Yet, the state houses and congressional delegations from those states are reliably Republican to an overwhelming degree.

    It also seems to be true that the working class voters who put Trump in the White House might not be getting what they thought they bargained for. But this is a more unusual case.

    I am interested in the developments in Kansas, where the voting electorate is moving to the left after the Governor’s grand experiment in trickle down economics has almost universally been considered to be a failure — and a big failure at that.

    I wish it were true that increased electoral participation would speed up these cycles, and there is no question that small swings in voter turnout favors Democrats. But even those turnout levels in midterm elections are below 50%. I think the experiment of what would happen at 100% voter turnout will never be run, for good or ill.

  11. So Krates says

    Buzz K – I agree with all that. I’m not even sure participation would increase if elections were held on a weekend or holiday, just know that’s the way it should be. Some countries have compulsory voting, I’m not in favor of that. My point is that using the word “liberal” as a pejorative is silly. Sometimes, as in this particular case, the Liberals have the right policy. It is the GOP that often tries to restrict access to the polls. That’s the wrong policy.

  12. Jake says

    Please no politics. There are plenty of websites where you can debate politics. I come here to escape from that.

  13. Ryan says

    I’m not a big fan of the buffalo proofs for some reason, I actually prefer the business strikes

  14. Buzz Killington says

    @SK — Yes, I also agree that either (1) making Election Day a national holiday OR (2) changing Election Day to a weekend is an experiment that we can, and should, run. I favor holding it on a weekend, because technically you have two Election Days (primary and general) but having it be a national holiday also has the benefit of calling attention to the fact that we are not at work because it is Election Day!

  15. So Krates says

    The 2013 Reverse Proof Gold Buff is most impressive in hand.

    I’d venture to say the Buffalo nickel design is the most frequently copied, privately minted, silver round design

  16. Yes, But...You Can't Take It With You says

    So Krates wrote:

    It is the GOP that often tries to restrict access to the polls. That’s the wrong policy.

    This is patently false statement. You’ve been drinking the Mainstream Media Kool-Aid.

    And – in regard to “students” finding it difficult to vote on Tuesdays: If you have been paying attention you will know that “students” seem to be available for whatever protest the Circus brings to town. They can drop all their “studies” at a moment’s notice to riot and rage against free speech, so why wouldn’t they have the time to vote?

    Sorry, Jake. Carry on.

  17. bob r says

    I will not buy a W stamped coin for hundreds of dollars above the same bullion mint coin for $50 or less over spot gold.

  18. So Krates says

    @ Yes But… – Like Baldwin referring to a shorter work week, you reveal your lack of concern for less restrictive voting by mentioning that students have time to protest. So what? Sunday is better than Tues. Period.

    You toss out words like “patently false”, “msm”, and “Kool-Aid” but offer no facts. Any fair observer of politics will find that the GOP deploys a variety of voting suppression tactics with varying success .


  19. So Krates says

    I agree, bob r., but…at least with the Proof or RP you get a different finish. Feels like you really get shorted when all you get for your extra money is a lousy W with what seems like the same finish as the bullion. Was going to say that I usually see US bullion at over $50 and often at $70 but a quick search shows AGEs at spot + $30


    While you and I won’t pay hundreds more, there are dealers who will. Not sure about Buffs but if you have Proof AGE singles or sets with box and papers that you’d like to sell, shop them around and you very well might be surprised at what you can get out of them.

  20. cagcrisp says

    Anyone see a Roll of 20 2017 ASE’s for $380.00 or Under let me know. It’s time for annual rolls and $380.00 is my max.

    I Currently see $383+

    IF Silver goes up and I miss the train, then so be it, $380.00 is my max…

  21. Buzz Killington says

    I should be as disciplined as @cagcrisp. I have found myself paying much more than +1% of my “firm” maximum just to be done with it.

    But as we sit, it doesn’t feel to me like silver is going up in the near term.

  22. Old Big Bird says

    KC&SO – Thanks for your input and thoughts. For a laugh I did a live chat with the USM about the lack of releasing the product schedule. As you could imagine it was like I have three heads as far as Louis was concerned.

  23. Kevin says

    Voting on Tuesday is a major pain in the A**, especially when I have to get 2 young kids to and from 2 different schools on time on top of my normal work day.

    Google claims that it’s really due to tradition, and horse drawn carriages back in the 1800’s –

    In 1845, the United States was largely an agrarian society. Farmers often needed a full day to travel by horse-drawn vehicles to the county seat to vote. Tuesday was established as election day because it did not interfere with the Biblical Sabbath or with market day, which was on Wednesday in many towns.

    … Right or Left, it’s time for a change. Weekend voting would be great.

  24. Baldwin says

    @So Krates… I made no engaging comments to you in the previous thread. I simply stated that I didn’t believe that the liberal country France would elect Le Pen and that is was a “resounding defeat of populism”. I believe cagcrisp was the one who stated it was a resounding defeat to populism… not you.

    With that you then took to trolling with your queries about Sunday and Tuesday voting etc… your continued postulations on the voting rights furthers your agenda.

  25. Kevin says

    I’m conflicted with the 10oz Queen’s Beast. I still haven’t picked up the 10oz Kookaburra yet, and judging from the videos the thickness of the QB is closer to the Lunar coins than the thick Kooks. The thickness of the 2oz QB compared to every other 2oz’er on the market sets it apart from everything else out there right now.

    I’m a little stretched thin with the number of options on the market right now, but a 10oz QB with the same relative dimensions as the 2oz coin would have been irresistible.

  26. Kevin says

    And if I could add 1 more comment regarding the 2014 profit margin discussion on the previous article –

    wasn’t the curved Baseball Hall of Fame coins released during 2014? Those offerings were a huge sales hit that year. I’m shocked that the overall profit margin in 2014 was so low.

  27. MarkInFlorida says

    We shouldn’t be poisoning this nice coin blog with polemic politics but someone needs to point out that half of all voters have a below average IQ, and getting more of them to vote would not improve the results. It would make more sense if only people who pay taxes could vote. Otherwise 51% of the people can vote to take away stuff from the other 49%.

  28. cagcrisp says

    @Kevin, “wasn’t the curved Baseball Hall of Fame coins released during 2014? Those offerings were a huge sales hit that year. I’m shocked that the overall profit margin in 2014 was so low.”

    The mint has various line items for breakdown. My comment was ‘specific’ to the line item for Silver Coin Products. There is a specific line item for Commemoratives and in 2014 the numismatic net margin for Commemoratives was 8.4%…

  29. Yes, But...You Can't Take It With You says

    So Krates:

    You know as well as I do that we can’t prosecute this issue here so I just cut to the finish. It is clear that you just regurgitate the “conclusions” of those who present you with one-sided information. But just to play along, here is a link to the New Black Panther voter intimidation scandal of the 2007 election. Which party/political persuasion do you think was behind all of that, hmmm?? Actual, documented, physical intimidation – and yet everyone walks.


    There are two things that fair-minded people want in regard to voting:

    1. That the individual is qualified to vote, i.e. s/he is of age, a citizen of the USA, alive, not voting more than once in an election, not household dog or cat, etc.

    2. That the individual actually is the person s/he claims to be – hence identification of some sort.

    What do you object to in those two items above? Most of what you read as objections to these reasonable safeguards are political smoke and mirrors which attempt to mask the fact that there is cheating going on which primarily benefits one party.

  30. says

    Yes But.., Trolls will be Trolls.., 😉

    Gold down another $8 in the last hour,

    the technicals beginning to look more like the Wild, Wild West territory

  31. So Krates says

    “It is clear that you just regurgitate the “conclusions” of those who present you with one-sided information.”

    Unlike most, I have first hand knowledge of the issue as I have personally been the “gatekeeper” as to who votes and who doesn’t.

    All I asked and all I’m saying is Sunday is better than Tuesday. Like Kevin perfectly illustrated above. Didn’t think common sense was so controversial.

    Back to coins, please?

    Cagcrisp, getting ready to cover that short yet? I see them averaging around $125

  32. says

    Kitco –

    Gold prices have pushed to a seven-week low in late-morning action Tuesday.
    A rally in the U.S. dollar index to a two-week high and weaker crude oil prices on this day are bearish “outside market” forces working against the yellow metal. Also, a rally in world stock markets today is keeping investors away from the safe-haven metal. June gold was last down $9.90 an ounce at $1,217.60.

  33. cagcrisp says

    @SO Krates, “getting ready to cover that short yet? I see them averaging around $125”

    This thing is just in the first inning. This will be a Nightmare before it is over…

  34. Yes, But...You Can't Take It With You says

    So Krates: If it’s just a “solution in search of a problem” then why such resistance to the solution? It would seem to be benign under your reasoning – no harm, no foul.

  35. Kevin says

    I have a solution – everyone on this board can give me $1,000.

    Now if only I could think of/invent a problem where this solution would be valid…

  36. Goat says

    Thanks Dustyroads for your feedback.
    Your 5422 coin, I have found a few coins that looked liked that. I thought they were stamped with worn dies ? I most weeks will search up to $100 worth, most $50 bags in my area will yield avg. 20 wheat , 5 Canadian, one dime in five $50 bags and 35 % copper (1981-1959). I do find some error, but to be honest I don’t know all the errors . I do follow the Cherry Pickers guide but have many coin that do not relate to the book. The coin I posted was one that most odd, flaking copper at the rim and hard to read , I weighed this coin at 2.52 g. that should be normal for a shield. Will post more when found now that I can take better pictures, won’t be as embarrassing as the photo of the rim of pres. silver metal. I know many people were talking about them and never heard of them being classed as error.
    Again, Thanks

  37. DaveC says

    Need opinions.

    Recently I bought some silver bullion coins from SD Bullion. They had a low price compared to a couple of the larger distributors all things considered. I had a very good experience and order was for a little over $500 and had two day shipping. Now I am thinking about some gold bullion coins but before I do I am looking for any good or bad input you might have about this company.


  38. MarkInFlorida says

    Got a mailer from “Danbury Mint” offering my birth year coins, cent through half dollar in a free handsome display case! They even pictured the coins for my birth year in a case with my name on it! The price wasn’t so obvious on the flier, but there it was in the text, she uno money now, just 3 monthly payments of $35.60. So $99 plus $7.80 shipping for coins worth about $12. (They aren’t unc or proof, just circulated coins from any year from 1935-2016.) Well, now the US Mint doesn’t seem like such a rip off after all.

  39. Gary Not Dave says

    I wonder how many of the Philadelphia Minted Silver Eagle boxes were opened and that can not be certified as being from Philly…I would say probably quite a few. We as Coin Collectors and Authors need to do a better job at getting the right information.

    Big shout out to Paul GIlkes. Awesome Job, Sir!

    This guy turned a $9800.00 box of Silver Eagles into potentially $225,000.00 plus. CRAZY!

  40. Louis Golino says

    @Gary not Dave- I was asked to write about this and simply reported what is known. Some of you don’t seem to have taken account of the fact that, as my article, and Coin World reporting, have stated, the mint has confirmed the serial number system that the grading companies identified, which reveals where coins where struck. I am not saying anyone should or should not buy these coins. Just the facts, not alternative facts. The point is you can argue about whether someone should pay these premiums, but the mint has confirmed all the info. through the FOIA about mintages and how to identify where coins were struck. Earlier on there were a lot of comments about how the TPG’s were guessing or something. That is not correct.

  41. Gary Not Dave says

    @Louis G Author
    Do you mean what was known at the time?

    I agree with premiums….and I never read or heard about any TPG’s guessing.

    I believe we have the correct information now. Would you agree with that?


  42. Gary Not Dave says

    I would put the 2015 (P) Silver Eagle right there with the following Eagles. I think it will hang in there at #3 for a long time.

    1) 1995 W Proof
    2) 2008 W reverse of 2007
    3) 2015 (P)
    4) 2011 S Burnished
    5) 1986 NGC PL 69


  43. data dave says

    17AK 2017 ATB SILVER UNC 5 OZ – DOUGLASS 13761

    I’ll let capcrisp add the commentary.

  44. Barry says

    @DaveC- I’ve used SD bullion a few times for larger orders without any issues. I can’t remember anyone here complaining about them. The Northwest Territorial Mint has come up and no doubt most avoid them but, I have no issues with them. I had a issue with Provident Metals some years ago but, they have improved the service. They were not updating what was out of stock on the website and causing shipping delays of 2 to 4 weeks on my orders.

  45. data dave says

    2017 ATB SILVER UNC 5 OZ – EFF MNDS 14782 +187

    Will probably pass Hawaii next week.

  46. cagcrisp says

    16EA 2016 AM EAGLE SILVER PROOF 1 OZ 556,067 +312

    16EB 2016 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1 OZ 23,571 +8
    16EC 2016 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ 5,680 +3
    16EF 2016 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 4-COIN SET 17,247 + 4

    16EG 2016 AM EAGLE SILVER UNC 1 OZ 195,817 (1,646)

  47. cagcrisp says

    Sad and Sad…

    16XA 2016 WALKING LIBERTY 24K GOLD .5OZ 63,274 +48
    16XC 2016 STANDING LIBERTY 24K GOLD .25OZ 89,645 +58

  48. cagcrisp says

    I Thought Last week was Bad for the BT Gold…

    17CA 2017 BOYS TOWN GOLD PROOF 1,266 (13)
    17CB 2017 BOYS TOWN GOLD UNC 1,694 –
    17CC 2017 BOYS TOWN SILVER PROOF 18,928 + 242
    17CD 2017 BOYS TOWN SILVER UNC 8,840 +89
    17CE 2017 BOYS TOWN CLAD PROOF 14,757 +106
    17CF 2017 BOYS TOWN CLAD UNC 13,437 +59
    17CG 2017 BOYS TOWN 3-COIN SET 4,641 + 38

    17CH 2017 LIONS CLUBS SILVER PROOF 58,374 +127
    17CJ 2017 LIONS CLUBS SILVER UNC 15,606 +79

  49. cagcrisp says

    17EA 2017 AM EAGLE SILVER PROOF 1 OZ 250,850 +3,223
    17EA042 2017 AM EAGLE SILVER PROOF 1 OZ (BULK) 239 –

    17EB 2017 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1 OZ 4,491 +93
    17EC 2017 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ 949 +33
    17ED 2017 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/4 OZ 1,487 +72
    17EE 2017 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/10 OZ 6,679 +252
    17EF 2017 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 4-COIN SET 6,624 +30

  50. cagcrisp says

    16SA 2016 FS GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ – NIXON 2,525 +2
    16SB 2016 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – NIXON 1,615 +4
    16SC 2016 FS GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ – FORD 2,334 +3
    16SD 2016 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – FORD 1,609 + 2
    16SE 2016 FS GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ – REAGAN 3,472 + 3
    16SF 2016 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – REAGAN 1,868 + 4

    JQ1 2015 FS GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ – TRUMAN 2,663 +2
    JQ2 2015 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – TRUMAN 1,872 +3
    JQ4 2015 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – EISENHWR 2,001 + 3
    JQ6 2015 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – KENNEDY 6,663 + 5
    JQ8 2015 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – JOHNSON 1,779 +3

  51. cagcrisp says


    “data dave says

    May 10, 2017 at 6:34 am

    17AK 2017 ATB SILVER UNC 5 OZ – DOUGLASS 13761

    I’ll let capcrisp add the commentary.”

    How about this for commentary:

    The Douglas “P” puck was the LOWEST Launch week for a Normal weekly opening of All “P” pucks. This is the 37th “P” puck and non were worse for a Normal opening. Now we’ve had some lower sales numbers but those were not fora Normal weekly opening.

    How Bad was Launch Week for the past 3 “P” pucks?
    How Bad was Douglas? Well…It was 4% Less than Effigy
    How Bad was Effigy? Well…It was 2% Less than Fort Moultrie
    How Bad was Fort Moultrie? Well…It was 10% Less than T Roosevelt

  52. So Krates says

    I find it surprising that Melvin can move 74K silver dollars. As Louis predicted, the lions probably help. Why not just suspend the gold commem coins for a while like they did 100 years ago and just mint $1 and .$50 coins? No one wants the $5 90% gold commemoratives any more. The primary market is bad and the secondary market is terrible. Like in crop rotation, they’ve got to give that field a rest.

  53. data dave says

    With returns of around 1000 in 4 weeks, the Douglass P puck could drop even further. I understand the low P puck sales, probably do to unexciting designs and long series and high markup over spot. But the low bullion puck sales is a little more surprising. I guess bullion demand all around is very low right now even for the lowest markup items. All the stackers must have enough finally.

    Anyone want to guess on the opening sales of the 2017 proof Buffalo Gold? Might be a good year to buy this one.

  54. isp_stuff says


    When ragging on something – try to get it in perspective.
    “How Bad was Fort Moultrie? Well…It was 10% Less than T Roosevelt”
    I am okay with some of your points, but when you take a very good looking and selling coin, that many would consider one of the nicest, you can’t really compare it to Fort Moultrie.
    This is like comparing FS gold Kennedy to FS gold Lou Hoover.

  55. CoinMark says

    I wish they would reprise fractional Buffallos. While I like the Gold Buffalo coin, the larger size feels like a medal vs a coin to me. I own the mint’s 2001 D & P silver version. Personal opinion. I’d love to own something more like the original size of a nickel, in gold. And more affordable, despite the premium over melt. I had a chance to buy an 08 half ounce MS70 for $900, but I hemmed an and hawed and lost the chance. And now those are worth more than the $900 bucks. Oh well, next time. If I were just gathering a gold stockpile to prepare for the apocalypse, the 1 oz Buff is nice but I don’t have that kind of money. So…Zombie feed.

  56. You Can't See Me says

    Lions Club International is promoting their coin on their home page.
    Boys Town coin program is no where to be found on their site with a quick search.
    Perhaps they are looking to a higher power to move their coins.

  57. Old Big Bird says

    cagcrisp – I see the UMS threw us dogs a bone an issued their sales numbers but they did not want to spoil us with a product schedule going past 05/17/17 LOL.

    I also noticed in my own spreadsheet the 16EG 2016 Am Eagle Silver UNC 1 oz with a negative 1,646.
    Now that is unusual, having that many I would guess returns on that item this late in the sales cycle
    Just odd!

  58. cagcrisp says

    @Old Big Bird, we had a Negative 2,699 on the Same item w/e 04/23/17. It is strange to have that many returns this late in the game. Maybe someone is looking for something specific and not telling the rest of us what they are looking for…

  59. cagcrisp says

    Revenue, Sales units and Revenue/Sales unit for the past 10 years for Numismatic Mint offerings…

    2016 $413.0 million
    2015 $453.2 million
    2014 $504.5 million
    2013 $512.4 million
    2012 $481.2 million
    2011 $721.7 million
    2010 $413.1 million
    2009 $440.0 million
    2008 $557.2 million
    2007 $551.5 million

    Sales units…
    2016 4.2 million
    2015 5.4 million
    2014 5.7 million
    2013 5.6 million
    2012 5.6 million
    2011 7.3 million
    2010 6.5 million
    2009 8.0 million
    2008 11.1 million
    2007 11.4 million

    Revenue/Sales unit…
    2016 $98.35
    2015 $83.93
    2014 $88.51
    2013 $91.50
    2012 $85.93
    2011 $98.86
    2010 $63.55
    2009 $55.00
    2008 $50.20
    2007 $48.38

    As you can see Sales units have dropped considerable over the years vs. Revenue. High $ Gold items have bailed out the Mint’s revenue and profit stream as overall Sales have continued to decline.

    What happens to the Mint when Gold sales Revenue starts to decline? We will soon find out

    Unless things Change between now and the end of the run for 2017 we are on pace for the following:

    Lowest All time Proof 1 oz. AGE
    Lowest All time Proof ½ oz. AGE
    Lowest All time Proof ¼ oz. AGE
    Lowest All time Proof 1/10 oz. AGE
    Lowest All time Uncirculated Commemorative Gold
    Lowest All time Proof Buffalo (pure speculation on my part)

    To keep up Revenue with a declining customer base and declining year/year sales the Mint has little options but to do limited gimmick runs and that dog only hunts for so long until you turn into a Low Mintage Wonder/High margin Mint…

  60. cagcrisp says

    In my Above analysis, I see 2017 tracking 3.9 million units (unless the Mint pulls a rabbit out of the hat)…

  61. John Q. Coinage says

    Personally, to pay a premium for the “P” ASE is ok if you ‘need” it but how beyond a slab can it be verified, the regular ASE & mint #’s are falling.. IMHO the mint has a perfect storm po’d customer base, poor economic situation, overpriced (vs. $pot) offerings, poor designs & poor management. Add in a dwindling sales base & the mint is just treading water on numismatic sales. THe ’16 burnished ASE returns are quite odd, expecting a price drop? Maybe they traded them for 1 ’17 High Relief……..talk about sad this will be on the website until 2022 and by then we know what happens…. Soylent GReen is PEOPLE!

  62. John Q. Coinage says

    Cag, great chart, to show what the mint is ding, 2016 sales volume down, profit$ up…..fleecing us, their golden sheep@!

  63. John Q. Coinage says

    Cag> 000ps misread it…..same result #$ way down…..5 year revenue almost down 50%!

  64. Scott says

    @ Cag, the big question is when that 2017 run ends? At the current sales rates, maybe that 2017 run ends in 2019?

  65. JBK says

    Not convenient to get to the polls on a Tuesday? Vote absentee. I’ve been doing it for years. Plus, may states have early voting (similar to absentee but not technically the same thing).

    Voting on weekends? I assume some people would have a problem with it, including those Americans who still “cling to their Bibles” (and Old Testaments). I know it may seem old fashioned, but for some people Sunday (and Saturday for some) is still set-aside for other things….. Plus, many people would claim that the weekend is their time to travel, unwind, etc. There will always be an excuse for people who can’t be bothered to vote.

    Back on topic – the Buffalo gold ounce looks nice but I am not willing to pay for it.

  66. cagcrisp says

    @Scott, LOL..I tried to be Very careful with the wording. The commemorative Gold will end but you are right about the other 2017’s. They are still Selling some of 2016 AGE’s…

  67. Scott says

    Voting on weekends would make it so much easier for the freechit crowd to get all the benefits that they think the government owes them.

    The Buffalo is still too high, but might be worth getting later if it looks like a record low mintage.

  68. data dave says

    @cagcrisp – Are your numbers for calendars or fiscal years? Love the data, thanks for posting. Things are going to get ugly for the Mint this year. Not sure what they are going to do if their profit goes negative.

  69. says

    cagcrisp says
    MAY 10, 2017 AT 7:30 AM

    17XA 2017 AM LIBERTY 24K GOLD 1 OZ 19,304 + 391

    Thanks for the weekly update,

    406 sold last week,

    Tells me that there’s a lot of uninformed buyers out here,

    Very unfortunate in that we’re trying to grow collectors

  70. says

    So Krates says
    MAY 8, 2017 AT 8:00 PM – I was talking about Buffaloes, you brought it up, troll.

    Have you ever had a job?

    Ever a leadership position?m

    Exactly how to you pay your existence?

    Since you have a memory of convenience.., I’m going to have a lot of fun with this…

  71. says

    I wouldn’t spend a dime on U.S. Mint products until they make their intent clear on the Pd Proof and UNC Pd, & the Frac’s,

    Save your dough until what matters

  72. cagcrisp says

    @KCSO, “I wouldn’t spend a dime on U.S. Mint products until they make their intent clear on the Pd Proof and UNC Pd”

    From what has been published there will not be a palladium proof this year, only a bullion version…

    …And you better save your coins because IF it’s bullion then that means going through APs which could get tricky IF there is Low Mintage…

  73. John Q. Coinage says

    PD was a great idea when it was cheaper, now it’s pricey almost up to Plat! Palladium bullion coin, forget the Mercury let’s see a Flowing Hair a la 1792, then we’ll be buyers w/a mint markup…….I was going to get more ‘oi6 burnished ASE but the return #s are scary…why?

  74. John Q. Coinage says

    As we have some political schpeel on here, try this:

    A joke: A rabbi, a Hindu priest, and a politician went hiking. Night fell and they were exhausted. The hotel on the map was nowhere to be seen.

    They knocked on the door of a farm and asked if they could spend the night.

    The farmer said, “Of course, but I only have a small room with two beds. One of you will have to sleep in the barn.” The Hindu priest said, “I need no material comforts. I will gladly take the barn.”

    The rabbi and the politician were settling in when they heard a knock on the door. They opened it to find the Hindu priest standing there. …………………. “So sorry, my friends, but there is a cow in the barn, and I cannot sleep beside such a holy animal.”

    The rabbi said, “No problem, my brother. I’ll take the barn.

    The Hindu priest and the politician were settling in when they heard a knock on the door. They opened it to find the rabbi standing there……..
    “So sorry, my friends, but there’s a pig in the barn, and I can’t sleep beside such a filthy animal.”

    The politician said, “OK, let it be remembered that I sacrificed my comfort for the greater good.”

    The rabbi and the Hindu priest were settling in when they heard a knock on the door………………………………………… They opened it to find the pig and the cow standing there!

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