50th Anniversary Kennedy Half Dollar Gold Proof Coin Limited to 75,000

gold-proofThe United States Mint has just announced a product limit of 75,000 for the 2014 50th Anniversary Kennedy Half Dollar Gold Proof Coin. The Mint has now either announced or adjusted product limits for all three of this year’s 50th anniversary Kennedy products during the course of sales.

The Uncirculated Coin Set containing two clad half dollars had gone on sale July 24, 2014 with no stated product limit and an ordering limit of five sets per household. A product limit of 200,000 units was established in late October and the ordering limit was removed in mid-November. As of the most recent report, sales have reached 170,500 units.

The Silver Coin Collection containing four 90% silver half dollars from different mints with different finishes had gone on sale October 28. A product limit of 300,000 was announced just days before the start of sales and an initial ordering limit of five sets per household was established. After three weeks of availability the ordering limit was removed and soon thereafter the product limit was reduced to 225,000 units. Current sales have reached 172,634 units.

The Gold Proof Coin had gone on sale August 5, 2014 with no stated product limit and an online ordering limit of five units per household. After a frenzied start, the pace of sales slackened and even experienced net negative weekly sales on a few occasions. The ordering limit was quietly removed in mid-October and a product limit of 75,000 was finally announced today. Current sales have reached 67,340 with the current pace of sales running at about 300-500 coins per week.

The table below shows the complete weekly sales data for all three of the 50th Anniversary Kennedy Half Dollar products.

Clad Set Gold Proof Coin Silver Set
7/27/2014 84,593
8/3/2014 97,655
8/10/2014 112,134 62,341
8/17/2014 116,937 63,521
8/25/2014 120,708 63,388
8/31/2014 124,887 64,305
9/7/2014 127,749 63,927
9/14/2014 129,986 63,384
9/21/2014 131,694 63,567
9/28/2014 132,745 63,757
10/5/2014 132,928 63,944
10/12/2014 133,818 64,098
10/19/2014 134,631 64,303
10/26/2014 136,614 65,039
11/2/2014 141,808 66,054 125,147
11/9/2014 146,222 66,547 137,802
11/16/2014 148,928 66,859 144,572
11/23/2014 165,824 67,301 166,291
11/30/2014 170,500 67,640 172,634
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Comments

  1. Frankie says

    75k is still about 50k too many for this coin to appreciate in the long run (see RP Buffalo as a similar example). But I could be wrong. A lot will also depend on the price of gold over the next few years – I know, this is numismatic not bullion, but there is usually not much difference with gold coins.

  2. stephen m says

    Not many left. Maybe the remainder of them are fresh. This is a nice coin but I had to pass on it.

  3. Boz says

    I am still standing in line at Baltimore waiting for them to go on sale. It is cold out here on the sidewalk and I am running out of skittles.

  4. says

    Somewhat OT:

    For those who have had problems with their order histories mysteriously vanishing, you may want to check your records again. All of mine back to 2009 have reappeared. I am not sure when this happened, as it’s been some time since I bothered to check. Previously, everything prior to 2014 had been gone.

    Back OT:

    The silver Kennedy set is doing better than I thought it would be. I had some concerns that the original run of 180K sets on hand would not sell out.

  5. Brad says

    Captain,

    Yeah, I had wondered myself if they would sell them all. After seeing lower demand than expected, I think the Mint should have just made the limit for the silver set 180,000 and been done with it.

    I still think it will do pretty well down the line as far as collector value goes. That Reverse Proof coin is really nice.

  6. VA Bob says

    CO – My order history came back yesterday. I mentioned it on the other thread. In my case it goes back to Jan 1, 2008. Wish they had it all, it’s a good quick reference, but I do have the information elsewhere.

  7. Dave SW FL says

    Captain O,

    Yea, the IRS probably wanted easy access for audit ( or confiscation?) purposes 🙂
    Seriously, glad they got much of it back in. Now, if they’d just get the complete history back, that would be awesome.

    Regarding interest rates going up – don’t expect much of a bump. Normalizing rates would nearly bankrupt the Federal budget. The debt is now $18 Trillion and regardless of what they tell you, it will NEVER go down. Last time it did, Ike was Pres.

  8. NC_Stacker says

    Are they trying to lower the numbers so they can say it was a Sell Out? Way to cook the books, Mint.

    3 weeks from now it will be lowered to 70,000

  9. Ends in Error says

    I’m still holding out for the Gold Plated version from the Beijing connection. Go blow those 100% Gold US Mint baubles out the oop shoot.

    As mentioned, 75,000 is still too many on the market. I’ll bet most are returns waiting to be place in unknowing homes.

  10. zeeman says

    Fm@ Last post you talked about the presidential oath dollars, i have the Washington one, in MS 67, i think none of them grade higer then MS 67, being the first one and in top garde, is it worth anything?

  11. Keep Calm & Stack On says

    I’ve learned over the past year to use MNB comments and my fellow posters assessments as a sounding board for collector/flipper enthusiasm (or lack there of) for new or continuing offerings…

    I thought the board would be ‘lighting up’ with news of the reduction in gold JFKs…, that does not appear to be the case.., and thus has me questioning…, would it ever get to 75,000 sold at this point(?), AND is the market so saturated to question the real numismatic potential value going forward (to Frankie’s point).

    It appears the news has been received as… “Ho Hum”

  12. CasualCollector says

    @Keep Calm & Stack On
    I would also think the board would be lighing up with the MINTAGE Limit on the JFK Gold coin set to 75,000

    With “only” about 7,500 to go before it says “SOLD OUT”, I am thinking it will get there before the end of this year. But apparently others feel it will be difficult to sell ~7,500 more of them…

    I guess we have to wait and see…

  13. Sith says

    Wow and I thought the gold Kennedy would reach 120K…talk about drinking the Kool-Aid. As far as its future appreciation I heard the same negative comments about the UHR, only time will tell but IMO this coin will do good down the stretch, as like the UHR it is one of a kind, of course they will release another UHR next year, so who know how it will affect the UHR (I say it will appreciate it but, again who knows.) RP coins are becoming a dime a dozen, and everyone knows the mint will release another RP Buffalo\dime \penny\quarter at the 100 anniversary of (name your event). FYI if low mintage was the key for a gold coin’s appreciation the FS coin collectors would be very rich.

    As far as difference between gold coins, and bullion. I can sell my RP at just about what it cost me, I can not say the same thing if I had bought bullion at that time. Yes I know Peter Schiff and other will tell you gold is gold, but that is true only if the defecation hits the oscillation, or you are buying over hyped gold coins from the less scrupulous dealers, IE you paid too much for the coin.

  14. Sith says

    @Keep Calm & Stack On – Its still a high mintage for a gold coin, then add most of us bought it when gold was higher, and the coin was $80 more expensive. I remember the hype, and the fact that the lines at the ANA convention to get the special labels were worst than this years Black Friday lines, and quite frankly I’m pretty much all Kennedied out, because when a label has more value than the coin, you have to curb your enthusiasm.

  15. Keep Calm & Stack On says

    The difference in the ’09 UHR, ’01 silver Buff, & ’06 gold Buff (sold 233k) and the others (JFK, ’15 UHR, other one offs) is that they were the FIRST of a CLASSIC, ICONIC, HISTORIC Design – which can’t be said for the others.

    I’m coming to the belief that this classic influence is the differentiator between what will be, and what won’t be, future numismatic value.

    But hey, I still have a lot of learn, let’s just check back in 6 months and see how things stack up. I have it marked on my calendar. Oh, and IF we’re not talking about BHoF performance as the come back kid then either, & you were new to this hobby, I’d say go find a new hobby! 😉

  16. Keep Calm & Stack On says

    Yeah, I’m pretty much all Kennedied out too. Though it’s been a great ride this year…, not sure how many surprises on the mint’s ‘modern releases’ roller coaster we can anticipate for 2015?

  17. NC_Stacker says

    If the mint really wanted to sell them all, they they need to start advertising on TV or on talk radio. Mail order is so passé

    Majority of the population don’t know these even exist. Their marketing strategy from 1950 doesn’t work anymore.

  18. Ends in Error says

    The Mint ought to give itself a classically influenced ” last laugh” with this Gold Kennedy and release a last minute error to finish out the mintage. They ought to do a “Lincoln looking at Kennedy” error ( it worked for the extra leaves Iowa Quarters ).

    Yeah imagine if that resulted in the last 100 orders getting a special surprise ( 1 per customer ).

  19. Eagle One says

    Objective: To forecast the date when the 200,000th K14 Clad Kennedy Unc Set will Sell.

    K14 Clad Sales Forecast Model
    As of 11/30/2014 @ 11:59 PM EST (Sales total = 170,500)
    200K in 141 days since sales began on 7/25/14 at 12 Noon EST
    200K Sales Target Date is estimated to be December 16th 2014
    Instantaneous Slope = 668 units per day (prior week = 2,412/day)

    Set accumulation rate has decreased by 72.3% from the previous week.
    Derived function: f(x) = 0.1736x³ – 35.739x² + 2493.3x + 73906
    Empirical Plot to Forecast Model Fit: R² = 0.986
    December 16th 2014 ± 3.2 days with 95% Confidence
    December 16th 2014 ± 4.9 days with 99.7% Confidence

  20. CasualCollector says

    Speaking of the Kennedy Clads — looks like they are no longer “BACKORDER” status. So my guess is they have the remaining ~30,000 sets ready to ship, and that will be the end of them… Maybe the final 30,000 batch will have a variation – like the very early batch with the “fingerprint” mark… 🙂

  21. Bernie in FL says

    @Sith

    ” FYI if low mintage was the key for a gold coin’s appreciation the FS coin collectors would be very rich.”

    Usually I do not get into much of a discussion on First Spouses. But after Years of hearing this common Misconception then I must just give up Coin Collections. And to believe that over the 70 years my father has been collecting and the 50 years I have been collecting. Mintage Eventually Always plays a role. Rarity is equated to Mintage. Especially the Rarity or Mintage that equates to the Coins Condition and Grade.

    Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow. But with the First Spouses having such a low mintage and even lower with 70 grades that are less than 100 or 200 on average. It doesn’t take a Rocket Scientist to figure out that eventually Rarity and Mintage Rules!!! Eventually I said.

    So for those of you with First Spouses, stay the course and Eventually the Coin Community with catch on, which they always do, and the FS series with become a sought after Series and or Coin.

    Just a Thought that Respectably disagrees with the individuals that continually pound on this Series. Not to mention it has brought my Two Daughters a joy to collect.

    But I guess the cost of collecting the series has Stop most dead in their tracks. But time will tell. I and most, do not do this for the money and probably will never seen them sold in our life time. But I suspect my Two Daughters will see a Serious Financial Win Fall. Rich is a relative term, but well of. Absolutely…. 🙂

  22. Keep Calm & Stack On says

    Okay folks – let’s put this issue that we’ve gone around, AROUND, & AROUND, & AROUND on for most of the year, .. & then we can get on with Happy Hour and I’ll stop spamming MNB!

    They are 13 DIFFERENT Kennedy’s produced for 2014!!! Yep, that’s it – 13!

    Watch this –
    The Coin Discovery Set — An Introduction to Coin Collecting is a brand new offering in 2014 and is perfect for the beginner coin collector. It includes three 2014 Kennedy Half-Dollars in three different finishes — proof, uncirculated and circulating.

    An Uncirculated P and a circulating D – the mint makes a distinction between those JFKs in rolls/bags.. AND THOSE in the Uncirculated Mint Set – AS HAVING A DIFFERENT FINISH!

    So to those that said I was wrong and that there wasn’t 13 finishes for 2014 – there you go – You’re Schooling Is Over! You’re welcome (oh and I drink Sam Adams.., so it’s time a Pony Up)! – Happy Friday All, I’m outta here. 🙂

  23. Boz says

    I agree about the spouse ladies, at least those since Lincoln.

    Regarding advertising, just received a mint catalog mailer.

  24. Eagle One says

    Objective: To forecast when the 225,000th Silver Kennedy Set Will Sell.

    K13 Silver Set Sales Forecast Model
    As of 11/30/2014 @ 11:59 PM EST (172,634 Sets Have Sold)
    225K units in 64 days from first day sales began on 10/28/14 at 12 Noon EST
    225K Target Date is estimated to be January 2nd 2015
    Instantanious rate of sales this week = 906.14 per day (prior week = 3,102.7/day)

    Rate of sales has declined by 70.8% from previous week.
    Derived Function: f(x) = 1762x + 112286
    Empirical Plot to Forecast Model Fit: R² = 0.994
    January 2nd 2015 ± 9.8 days with 95% Confidence
    January 2nd 2015 ± 15.0 days with 99.7% Confidence

  25. CasualCollector says

    Just got an email from MCM for the C&C Set (the Coin is SP69 ER and the Dollar Bill is “PMG graded GEM UNC”

    Both for $99

  26. Raphael says

    I noticed in the U.S. Mints website, when checking the status of my most resent order, that a order that I placed on 28 Oct. 2014, and received a long time ago is still shown as “Being Processed”. Same status as my most recent order 3 Dec.2014. The old site provided information quicker, then new site, I see little improvement. So as fare as I’m concerned when it comes to Order Tracking the new site is two steps lower then the only one, since it would actually tell me when my order was mailed in a timely fashion.

  27. Sith says

    @Bernie in FL – I’m not pounding on your collection, and yes your grandchildren or great grandchildren will make out like a bandit, but so will the other coins like the UHR. Hell once you compete the entire series I imagine that their value will sky rocket.

    Yes rarity is equated to Mintage, but not desirability. Using the FS series as an example, the mint raised the mintage on Jackie O, and lets say it sells out, but even at about 10x the mintage of Florence Harding it will be worth more…why because most people (myself included) can’t afford the whole collection, and most people (again myself included) could careless about Florence Harding, but a lot of us (once again myself included) will figuring out a way to get Jackie O, and if lets 35K people are scrambling for 30K coins, and you know once the HSN starts to sell them to the boomers it should be more than that…now on the flip side with all the boomers dead, will Jackie O be as valuable to your great grandchildren than Florence Harding. I don’t think it will but I will be dead, and hopefully my great grandchildren will hear about how I like Jackie O so much I bought her coin…

  28. JBK says

    In regard to the FS coins, I have always understood that value is a function of supply and demand. I do not believe there will be a demand that significantly surpasses supply for the FS coins in a long time, if ever. The best case scenario for those looking for a high return on investment is for the series to fall even farther out of favor, and then have gold spike so that many FS coins are melted down, and then have gold come back down in price so that people might start collecting the FS coins again.

    The problem with the FS series is that they are made of gold (why gold? The accompanying Presidential coins are base-metal!!) and are therefore very expensive to collect by series. If you want one or two specific ones then fine, but there will never be many people who collect the FS coins by series due to the high cost.

    Low mintage or rarity alone is irrelevant if there is not a demand for the coins. If they were dollar coins, I would have a full set. But in gold, I do not own even one. I predict that the primary catalyst of any price increases in the FS series in general will be the spot price of gold, but that works two ways, so any major decrease in gold will sink the value of FS coins.

  29. cagcrisp says

    @Sith , Surely you jest about the FS coins. Just LOOK at that face of Lou Hoover. That face just screams out “Scoop me Up and take me HOME!!”

    (Jackie Kennedy will be my ONE and Only FS coin….and there may be more than one if I can get it. Just giving everyone on the blog Advance warnings that I May buy more than one. Don’t say you haven’t been warned….)

  30. Silverfan says

    CasualCollector says
    DECEMBER 5, 2014 AT 1:26 PM

    Just got an email from MCM for the C&C Set (the Coin is SP69 ER and the Dollar Bill is “PMG graded GEM UNC”

    Both for $99

    This is a great deal with free shipping too. I ordered right away. The graded coin alone is selling for between $150-200 on eBay. These will sell out fast.

  31. Eagle One says

    Objective: To forecast when the 75,000th Gold Proof Kennedy Will Sell.

    K15 Gold Sales Forecast Model:
    As of 11/30/2014 @ 11:59 PM EST (67,640 Sets Have Sold)
    75K units in 248 days from first day sales began on 8/5/14 at 12 Noon EST
    75K Target Date is estimated to be April 13th 2015
    Instantanious rate of sales this week = 48.4 per day (prior week = 63.1/day)

    Rate of sales has declined by 23.3% from previous week.
    Derived Function: f(x) = 56.086x + 61103
    Empirical Plot to Forecast Model Fit: R² = 0.995
    April 13th 2015 ± 11.7 days with 95% Confidence
    April 13th 2015 ± 18.0 days with 99.7% Confidence

  32. Bernie in FL says

    @Sith

    We are in total agreement. As always, I do enjoy your comments. I’ve been on this blog mostly reading for years now and you seem know your stuff. I do appreciate your comments no matter which side we stand on. Now or in the future. It is always a joy to here both sides and apposing ones. But do fully understand yours….

    Sometimes, even I, need to hear what I may not want to. Thanks at least for the telling it the way you feel. Otherwise what would this blog be without opposing sides and thoughts.

  33. Bernie in FL says

    @JBK

    Did enjoy reading your comment. Very good point, but in relation the rarest coins currently auctioned, although hundreds of years old are Gold. Short term I fully agree with you and extremely agree that due to the fact that they are Gold makes them extremely limited to collecting at this time for the common person or collector.

    I personal have only a few of them and my Daughters and I have picked and chosen the ones be best like. But like most rare coins over time. It is the most difficult to collect during their minting for reasons of cost or metal content that makes them extremely rare today.

    As I was mentioning to Sith, unfortunately we will not have the time to debate this fact to its full conclusion in the Future as I assume you and I will not be here in the next 100 years to look back, and point fingers.

    Short term your argument is valid and just. But over the years and I mean years to come. The FS series will become a very sought after series or should I say only a few of them. Especially the ones not melted down.

    Nice debate, appreciate your professional input……

  34. A Different Jeff says

    Regarding the MCM offering (excerpted from their web site):

    “As a special promotion, to complete the set we are GIVING AWAY the $1 note PMG graded GEM UNC with every purchase of the new Enhanced Uncirculated Native American Dollar graded NGC SP69 Early Releases! With these currently selling for upwards of $150 at auction we do not expect our supply to last long!”

    How magnanimous that they are GIVING AWAY the $1 bill that comes with the C&C set. I guess they didn’t get any ‘special’ serial number that would make it worth the hype whereby they could charge another $50 or so.

    And once again, how ridiculous it is to have ‘Early Release’ designations. The issue may well be sold out by December 20, which would be the last day for the early release designation, thus making all coins eligible for the label. Maybe the ER really means ‘Early Recognition’, before everyone jumped on board!

  35. JBK says

    @Bernie: “But like most rare coins over time. It is the most difficult to collect during their minting for reasons of cost or metal content that makes them extremely rare today. ” This is the key. We agree on this for sure.

    I actually enjoy collecting some coins/banknotes that are not necessarily popular, and I like it that way. It is cheaper and easier to build an advanced collection of something that most others are ignoring. And, if they suddenly get popular someday then I am going to look like a genius.

    As for FS, there are definitly some key coins, and they likely won;t be the ones that everyone is rushing to order. By the time the series winds down, an unc. Pat Nixon might be on no one’s list, so maybe I will buy one. I figure if any coin falls below 1000 mintage then I will seriously think about it.

  36. fmtransmitter says

    About FS series, I love them, I can’t afford them, the Mint knows this, I buy the bronze. Period. Ha…
    That Presidential Oath dollar was limited to 1,000 so be so OT today, no they are not valuable, because the demand isn’t there. Will they be eventually? Well, if one wants to collect every Presidential dollar released in PF and MS then yes, they will have to have these 4 coins in their set to COMPLETE it…

  37. Brad says

    While we’re talking about the First Spouses, I figured all along that the Mint would end sales of the 2013 coins by December 31 of this year. However, they’re not listed on the “last chance” section of the website and last year the 2012’s were. I certainly hope they don’t continue to sell them into 2015, but they very well might. Ending them after “approximately one year” was never mandated in any way but was rather just an internal policy.

    If they continue to sell them until sold out, hopefully my feeling that no more than 3,000 proofs and 2,000 uncs of each design were minted turns out to be true! Otherwise they may hang around for several more years.

  38. JBK says

    Further to the “Presidential Oath dollars”: they are a private concoction, a manufactured collectable. I do understand that they were sold at the Mint’s store, but they were privately created.

    When the hysteria first took off I was on the verge of having some made up for myself. I was going to send some dollar coins to the place that was making them. Just before I could get the transaction confirmed, the first customer who was promoting these got the manufacturer to give them an exclusive deal. Until then, though, they were available to anyone who wanted to pay for them to be made.

  39. says

    KCSO and Sith,

    If you guys are all “Kennedied out,” can I assume you won’t be joining me next year when I buy the Jackie Kennedy FS coins and the Kennedy presidential $1 coins? 🙂

    Though joking aside, it does seem like a lot of people here will be getting the Jackie Kennedy FS coins, so perhaps there might be some real demand for it. It’d be neat if the coin actually sells out.

  40. Louis says

    Jeff- the MCM offer is a great deal. I bought 2. In addition to the fact that they are going for close to
    twice as much on the Bay, the notes are expensive to have graded and they are not even charging you for the note. On the Bay all you get is the coin for $160 and up.

  41. Sith says

    @Bernie in FL – We are on the same side. I would be collecting the FSs coins but simply can’t afford it. As I have said before I have to respect anyone who collects this set. Again I was just using coins with low mintages that so far have not appreciated as you would expect.

    CO, I’m going to do my best to get a Jackie O 🙂 A sellout might be pushing it as the mint can’t seem to get collector demand right it will either be too much or too little. Not sure why they went with such a high mintage but if they are on the low side this time…but 20K makes more sense. The more popular coins have mintages in the teens, with only the first years production breaking 30K. in sales.

  42. Sith says

    GSD bullion ATB is at 19,700 now, I don’t think it will be the new low…too bad. I will stick to my guns and say it will be 22K, and talking about rarity is equated to mintage, but not desirability, even with 60% more mintage Everglades and Mount Rushmore should be worth more than GSD, of course with the 2015’s ATBs being so ugly it might actually be worth something more down the road.

    “I found there was only one way to look thin: hang out with fat people.”

  43. RSF says

    Those few collectors that have a full FS set will be celebrated, they will have articles written about them as they change hands. Those who focused on the classic liberty head four coin subset will probably also do well. And those who chose a few favorites along the way will have the pleasure of holding beautifully done gold coins.

  44. Louis says

    I was looking at NGC for pop #’s and don’t see any SP’s listed yet, just MS and PF. Probably not posted yet, but did any of you find the #’s?

  45. mark says

    I think moderncoinmart just sait do not grade them. Just pull them out and put gem unc. on it….

  46. SilverFan says

    When I ordered from MCM earlier this afternoon, they had 90 of them. I just checked and 34 remain. These should sell out soon. It is cool having the graded note that guarantees provenance from that set.

  47. VA Bob says

    The gold JFK shouldn’t be dismissed yet. Really depends on the end of year IRA gold buys, it could boost the numbers.

  48. Wes says

    Also received mint catalog today. Noticed C&C set description still makes no mention that the Sac Dollar is Enhanced.

  49. SilverFan says

    mark says
    DECEMBER 5, 2014 AT 7:45 PM

    Hope MCM does not have hundreds more after they sell out…you know what i mean

    I hear you. Let’s see what happens once the final 8 are sold.

  50. says

    I think the MCM price of $99 is rather high. Six months from now these will probably be available on the bay for $50-$75. I could be wrong, but history says that the highest prices would be right now, and they will slowly decline.
    However, I will watch the NGC prices on ebay….I have 10 sets coming Monday, and may send in a few to be graded ($20/coin plus shipping) AND NGC has removed the 5 coin minimum…so if you only think 2 or 3 are worth grading, you can do that.

    @Mark….regarding the “grading” of the note as Gem is really a semi grade….it costs less to grade and means the note would be in the 65-67 range.

    When A-Mark sold their 2010 ATB 5 oz sets they were graded as Choice BU (First Strike) I resubmiited 4 of the 5 coin set to PCGS and 3 came back as MS69DMPL. And because the coins I resubmitted already had the “First Strike” designation, I did not have to pay for that again and it carried over.

  51. thePhelps says

    @ SilverFan…” It is cool having the graded note that guarantees provenance from that set.”

    I think it is going to be easy to establish provenance on the dollar. The serial number ranges are going to be pretty well know when the series is done. I for one see no reason to grade the set – unless you have one that is a solid 70 – I don’t think it will matter in the long run how many 69 sets got graded.

  52. mark says

    @Steve…thanks…Yea was searching ebay and never saw any note just graded GEM,, They all had a numeric grade.

  53. says

    There were probably several factors that conspired to suppress the sales of the Kennedy gold. Early on and before its release, many commenters on the MNB expressed their opinions that this gold coin just didn’t ‘t seem right as an inclusion in the Kennedy half dollar series. Many felt that it wasn’t necessary to acquire the Kennedy gold to have a complete series, since it was more of a novelty offering.
    Other collectors felt that U.S. gold coin offerings should have the classic designs rather than depicting presidents and first spouses.
    Additionally, the botched manner in which the Mint chose to release the Kennedy golds turned off many potential buyers, who ultimately decided to steer clear of this offering.

  54. SilverFan says

    Not in stock. Let’s see if they replenish. Probably not at $99 given how fast they sold out today.

  55. mark says

    Just searched NGC pop report on Sacagawea 2000 -2014 Ms d/p …. Not one graded a 70…and very few graded a 69…That is 14 years of grading Sacs. And i kind of consider these were handled like ms coins.

  56. SilverFan says

    Sacagawea dollars are very hard to find in higher grades. Most top pops are 68 and sell for big bucks.

  57. says

    Many of the commenters who have expressed their enthusiasm and desire to buy the Jackie Kennedy FS coin are presumably the baby boomers who witnessed the Camelot years of the early 60’s. The coin obviously has special meaning to these individuals.
    But, when the coins are eventually handed down to the heirs, that Jackie FS will no longer be held in the same esteem. Jackie will be on the same level in the minds of the heirs as Lou, Mamie, Betty, Eleanor, Pat, or whoever FS coins they acquire.

  58. mark says

    Thats how i sold all mine on feebay…listed at 30 available (no takers). Listed at 3 available they flew out the door.

  59. NC_Stacker says

    @Mark the front page will give you one number in stock, then when you click on the item’s page it will give you a different number.

  60. Erik H says

    When eBayers find out that MCM has them @ $99 it will definitely drive the price down for everyone. I like buying from MCM prices are always competitive, but timing is everything. What I mean by that is $99 seems like a bargain today but what about next month? I’ll keep mine in OGP for $14.

  61. Jerry Diekmann says

    Bernie, JBK, and Sith – you have all made excellent observations on the future of the FS gold coins. As a set I don’t believe they will ever be in demand unless Louis Eliasberg returns to earth – they are just too costly for 99.9% of collectors -at the end of 2015 the set will encompass 36 different coins – that’s 18 ounces of gold! At a current price of about $1,200 per ounce, that comes to $21,600 in gold. I believe this series will NEVER have any numismatic value – most of the subjects are not well known. Although many or all of them may have been better people than the men they married (with a few exceptions), having a superior social, moral, or intellectual caliber, even beauty, is not going to translate to higher demand or prices for coins with their visages. If you want beauty at the cheapest price, then buy American gold eagles on price drops in gold bullion. Just my opinion.

  62. Jerry Diekmann says

    JBK – just kidding, but I was wondering if these coins were being made up by a private manufacturer, if you could have them inscribe “Go to Hell” in front of the names of some of them. I can think of a dozen or so living and dead presidents who deserve this “attribute”.

  63. Erik H says

    On the previous thread there was a few comments that said gold would drop because interest rates are going to rise. My question is, weren’t interest rates high in the 70’s at the same time gold was rising? If you get 0.10 interest on your savings and inflation is 1-2% you are losing money. YTD gold is still up if only slightly in USD. It’s up over 10% in Yen & €. Up over 5% in £.

  64. Bernie in FL says

    @Jerry Diekmann

    To your response to me, BK, and Sith. You do set an excellent point. But my 40 years of Collecting, not to mention my Fathers 60 years. Collecting what is always on the current radar or most popular has made me the most most money or should I say increased the value of the Coins I have. Following crowed has never gain much in the long run, taking the chance and cherry picking the First Spouse Coins today will make all the difference in the future.

    Lets just say Gold sky rockets ( but don’t hold your breath! ). The the First Spouses will accelerate in value not only monetarily but more important in their rarity. Unfortunately you and I will not be around in 100 years to look back at a Heritage Auction to find out, that a few selected FS coins have become the darling of the rare coin community.

    But like must we all have short term goals and lose the long term outlook on what is Hot today and is usually cold tomorrow, and that which is undervalued and ignored becomes the true value in the Future.

    I truly do agree that some of the FS coins are the Ugliest coins I have ever seen! But you and I would agree that most of the top 50 rare coins in the world are not the Prettiest either. What makes a coin beautiful is its rarity and not its popularity.

    But I respect your opinion and welcome your point of view. Seems its what makes a Market 🙂

  65. HarryB says

    As a collector of the FS gold since the initial issues, I appreciate the discussion, especially comment from those who are completing sets of FS gold as I am. Yes, the series is rather pricey., and the FS gold issues are not for everyone. I sometimes wonder who buys all the graded bullion issues like the AGEs and Buffaloes that the TPGs sell, along with the Proof Gold issues that are offered annually. It is apparent that there are a lot of folks with deep pockets buying the U.S. Mint Gold offerings for a variety of reasons. I feel like a small time collector compared to those who purchase all the Mint offerings annually. As a rare poster but daily reader I would like to thank the regular posters for their insight, research, and providing heads up on hot issues and sources. Also, I am gratified to see fans of Space Exploration, being a long time employee of NASA.

  66. Eagle One says

    @Hawkster

    “There were probably several factors that conspired to suppress the sales of the Kennedy gold.”

    Here are two more factors…

    1. Selling ¾ of an ounce gold for the price of one ounce.

    2. The grading companies declaring the coin a commerative and not an actual Kennedy coin.

  67. Clark says

    Bernie-I am in full agreement with your views on gold first spouse collections. I liken my complete FS collection to a decent piece of real estate that I purchased for my heirs: I get to use and admire it during my lifetime, then my son gets to enjoy it during his as its value gradually appreciates. No hurry to worry.

    The set of pure gold coins for a president and first lady will become the only such set minted, and probably the only one we shall ever see. For that reason alone, the numismatic value is intriguing.

    Jerry D–By my count the number of gold FS coins (prf & unc) in a complete set (up to Betty Ford) is 72 or 36 oz @ $1200/oz is $43,200, which punctuates your point even more! The cost is staggering, but as others have noted, no risk, no reward.

  68. Ikaika says

    I rather have 7 C&C sets in OGP than a 69 graded coin and a gem uncirculated note. But that is just me 😉

  69. Clark says

    The unique set I referred to above consists of the gold JFK half dollar and the gold Jackie O first spouse $10 coins. Sorry.

  70. NC_Stacker says

    To all you statistics people out there, this one I don’t think has been asked.

    With the mint numbers listed above, what is the percentage of graded sets to OGP sets?

    I don’t have access to the TPG numbers.

  71. Keep Calm & Stack On says

    CO – if metals stay depressed, I would expect the mint to increase Au mintages – premiums are the same regardless of the price of Au, more sales, the more the revenue.

    If metals stay depressed, sorry my friend, I see Jackie as the only Au play for ’15 worth the premium.

    Of the Spouses, there is 3 I give a hoot about, Mrs Jackie is one.

    I’ll likely grab at least a couple of Jackie’s to complement my JFK complete set & Liberty set. So, I guess I’m not that Kennedied out quite yet when I consider alternatives… :S

  72. Bob R says

    IMO the mint will sell out the Jackie O FS just because that is a match with Kennedy 2014 gold. Can’t have one without the other, or two peas in a pod.

  73. Jerry Diekmann says

    Harry B – the Mint, and Congress – missed big time with commemoratives in 2008. They could have issued a 50th anniversary coin for NASA and a 150th anniversary coin for Teddy Roosevelt’s birth. Instead, they issued only one coin that year, for the bald eagle, which could have been issued in any year, or as a medal, and let these two noteworthy events slide by without even a mumble. And current law provides for two programs per year, and all we got was three different coins of the same bird that appeared on all our quarters up to 1998 and on our half diollars up to n1947 and our dollar coins during the 1970s, and the Scagawea coins in the 2000’s. There’s just only so much you can do with an eagle – after all. With apopogies to Gertrude Stein, an eagle is an eagle is an eagle. Other people are Kennedyied out, and so am I, but I am also baldeagled out too. Hopefully 2014 is the last year for the JFK half dollar (RIP), and next year’s presidential dollar will show him one more time, and after that, I think he can join the rest of our departed presidents to history and our memories. If our half dollars and dollar coins are not going to circulate (and we all know the reasons why), then we should just stop making them.

  74. Eagle One says

    Immanuel Kant said (1798 German Philosopher) – Perpetual Peace “It is ok to be exceptionally wealthy and powerful beyond all means; providing one never compromises another or themselves in their pursuit of all power and wealth.”

  75. Jerry Diekmann says

    Clark – you are right – that would be the cost if someone decided to collect both the uncirculated and the proof varieties. Someone who has spent that much money – probably more, since the coins are sold at a premium to their gold value, would certainly have an investment for the future. It could be a winner or a loser, just like investing in the stock market. The difference is that you have something of intrinsic value that you can hold and admire (and have to safeguard) compared to a bookeeping entry in the records of a transferagent. So, in that respect, gold coins are neater than stocks (and they don’t print pretty stock certificates anymore). I don’t have the money to buy these coins, and if I did, I would probably pick other gold coins, just because I don’t think the first spouses are all that important or worthy of being placed on a coin, except for maybe Eleanor Roosevelt and Jackie Kennedy. But for that matter, I also feel that most of the presidents on these coins aren’t anywhere worthy of being placed on a coin either, even one made of base metal. I know American history pretty well, and there are a bunch of losers in several parties who occupied the White House. I have collected coins for many years, but I will never have a collection of the presidential dollars, simply because I refuse to collect failures on coins. I’ll have a partial collection, which is all I want or need. I realize many people will say you don’t have a collection unless you have every coin, but I won’t fall into that trap. There are a lot of very high priced coins out there that some people say are part of a collection, but these coins were mistakes – errors – that got promoted so much that they became a “requirement” for a complete set – overdates, over polished or overused dies, double dies, etc. If you collect error coins, these are great additions, but they are not a requirement for a complete set, IMO. Other people say, “buy what you like!” It’s your money, so spend it how you like – a FS set of gold coins will always be valuable, just because the coins are 90% gold. The designs for the most part aren’t all that good, but gold is gold!

  76. Erik H says

    Jerry, FS coins are .9999 fine not 90% gold. They are the only 1/2 oz. 24k US mint coin except for the 2008 buffalo.

  77. Eagle One says

    (20/24) • 100 = 83.33%
    (21/24) • 100 = 89.55%
    (22/24) • 100 = 91.66%
    (23/24) • 100 = 95.83%
    (23.5/24) • 100 = 97.92%
    (23.75/24) • 100 = 98.95%
    (23.85/24) • 100 = 99.38% – two 9s
    (23.95/24) • 100 = 99.79%
    (23.975/24) • 100 = 99.89%
    (23.985/24) • 100 = 99.94% – three 9s
    (23.995/24) • 100 = 99.98%
    (23.9975/24) • 100 = 99.989%
    (23.998/24) • 100 = 99.991% – four 9s
    (23.999/24) • 100 = 99.995%
    (23.9995/24) • 100 = 99.9979%
    (23.9997/24) • 100 = 99.998%
    (23.9999/24) • 100 = 99.9995% – five 9s
    (23.99999/24) • 100 = 99.99995% – six 9s
    (23.999999/24) • 100 = 99.99999 – seven 9s
    (23.9999999/24) • 100 = 99.999999 – eight 9s
    (23.99999999/24) • 100 = 99.9999999 – nine 9s
    (24.00/24) • 100 = 100.0% pure

    very interesting

  78. Eagle One says

    An asymptote, therefore, theoretically, pure 24K gold can never be attained?

    Any metallurgy people out there?

  79. Dave says

    Off topic slightly —

    I won an auction on e-bay for 2, Morgan dollars (Raw); I was a little suspicious about one of the coins authenticity (viewing the pictures & “Spidy senses – LOL!). I received them today and have done some prelim. testing/checking. One of them appears to slightly stick to a magnet (might be other explanation); however, tomorrow I will follow up with additional checking and look at them under the high power lighted scope (not loupe).

    If both or one are fakes, they are not bad; as stated, I will know tomorrow. I’ve won raw item’s (Morgs) in the past that indeed were counterfeit, I have never had an issue getting my money back from sellers in past on fakes & in many cases I am sure some of those seller’s themselves did not know! The coins had also been great training pieces for my boy.

    If one or both a real; they look better than the pics and will grade minimum MS-64 and more likely MS-65 and be worth considerable more than I paid.

    If anyone wants me to post my findings on this blog, let me know, since for anyone new to collecting/investing, this would be interesting data, and it would generate more questions then answers. I am sure some of the other experienced bloggers would then like to weigh in.

    “The real ‘Cool’ Dave – LOL!)

  80. Dave says

    Naw —

    I will know after tomorrow, as this will not require services of Lurgist or Chemies. Just too tired now to take time, plus I want to involve the boy.
    🙂

  81. Eagle One says

    Dave,

    Night/Morning all the same.

    24K Gold is a theoretical boundary and a mathematical limit that can never be attained because the Karat Scale is asymptotic. With the addition of one molecule of copper or hydrogen – Gold can be 23 karats with an infinite number of 9s. Therefore, 24K Gold (Au), can never be truly pure. Truth in advertising may be forever changed for the Gold Market.

    Any takers?

  82. Keep Calm & Stack On says

    Arches just went OOS

    So, Sacabuck sold out or are we waiting again till Tuesday’s #’s again?

  83. Keep Calm & Stack On says

    I sense GSD & ENP will be around for quite some time given their bleed off rate. Put me down for one Nebraska P & one BU, and that’s it!

  84. jhawk92 says

    @EagleOne-actually Orion is already back. The mission was planned at about 4.5 hrs and tested many of the systems that will be needed when astronauts are on board in ~2021.

    @HarryB- where did you work at NASA?

    Back OT…I’m glad I was able to find a gold Kennedy below mint pricing. Hopefully the reduced mintage numbers will help the long term price support. I guess the mint seems to pick and choose how they deem a coin/set sold out; just look at how the various ATB puck numbers have been this year. I wouldn’t mind if they stop selling the Kennedy at the end of the year.

  85. jhawk92 says

    @”The Real Cool Dave”

    I would be interested in your findings on the Morgans. I love the looks of those coins and someday may start to assemble some sort of collection of those.

  86. cagcrisp says

    Still $$ being made on the Gold Kennedy. Yesterday a sealed box of 5 that are FS eligible sold for $7,500.00 and a First day of Issue PR70 UCAM sold for $2,600.00

  87. HarryB says

    @Jerry D. : you are spot on with an opportunity missed in 2008 for a NASA 50th commerative . A great disappointment.

  88. HarryB says

    @jhawk92: I am at MSFC, and not yet retired, but soon. I really would like to see SLS fly before I leave, but that may be too far in the future for me.

  89. NC_Stacker says

    @Dave,

    Please post your findings. I would be interested in reading what you discover/ uncover.

  90. says

    OT……The Clad Kennedy P&D set. Some websites are selling 68 graded NGC sets for $350.00, 67 graded NGC sets for $100.00, and 66 graded NGC sets for $70.00.

    Last night, HSN guy is selling ANACS 69 graded sets for $99.00 ! How can that be? Can someone explain this? Is ANACS grading for real? Please……I’d appreciate some input. Thanks.

  91. VA Bob says

    WCubes – There is a reason why coins in ANACS holders get no/small premiums today on the tertiary market. If it were not for an exclusive arrangement between HSN and ANACS, they might not even be around in the capacity they are today. Ask yourself when was the last time someone said “I have to get these coins out to ANACS”? If you’re looking for someone to just slab coins for you, they should suffice. They used to be a top tier grading company years ago, and that should be a cautionary tale for anyone that likes their coins slabbed, in any brands holder. Reputations can change. You’re fine if you’re selling in the near future. 20, 30 years from now who knows. Unless you’re afraid you’re 70 will turn into a 69 sitting in OGP, what’s the point until the time you want to sell? Ok if you’re buying, as long as you know trends change in the long term and you aren’t buying for the slab or the label, just the coin. Don’t pay a crazy premium for a slab over the going price for the coin inside. My two cents on the topic.

  92. says

    VA Bob, thanks for the response. But, in your opinion, are the grading numbers given by ANACS for real? Are their 69’s and 70’s the same as an NGC’s or a PCGS’s? If not, this seems to be a dangerous game that some people are playing. Trust and credibility are critical in this hobby. Isn’t the grading scale the same for everyone? If not, why have one?

  93. A Different Jeff says

    @cagcrisp – FS on the K15 is not (or should not) be a premium generator. Looking at the sales/production info, probably something in the neighborhood of 62,000 to 64,000 are FS eligible. Determinant will be how many of those have been or will be submitted. What would be a better label (if you’re into that nonsense) is a ‘LastChance’ label for one shipped within the, say, last 15 days of availability. ;D

  94. The Real "Cool" Dave says

    @WCubes says – December 6, 2014 at 11:48 am
    “. . . grading numbers given by ANACS . . . ”

    The response to your post is Yes & No — grading is Subjective; thus, the saying, “Buy the coin, not the slab.”

  95. cagcrisp says

    @A Different Jeff, I don’t disagree with you. I’m not into labels or slabs. I am amazed at what some people would pay for labels/slabs. I would Like to sell mine at $1,500.00 a pop and then go to the Mint and Buy ’em back at $1,165.00

    @VA Bob, “You’re fine if you’re selling in the near future. 20, 30 years from now who knows”. Agreed. Someone will come out with some fancy dancy label/process/slab or something in the next few years and what you currently have will be obsolete and you will have to have them re slabbed or take a discount on the selling end…

  96. Clark says

    Jerry D–Well said.

    Knowing that they always will have intrinsic value makes it a lot easier for me to pay high premiums over spot for first spouse coins. If they were made of base metals and still expensive, the risk would be too high for me. And having a 36 oz chunk of gold in the safe deposit box is a nice rainy day fund, if needed.

    I’m glad you alone define what your collections are. Too many try to tell others what to collect or how/why collections are deficient. As I tell my son, “You are the CEO of your own collection, so make it anyway you like.”

    Finally, I agree with you about Eleanor Roosevelt, but wonder why you consider Jackie O to be in the category of better first spouses. I’m not trying to be political because I am a JFK fan, but Jackie’s contributions seem to be on the lighter side: degree in French lit, fashion icon, preserved NYC architecture, and endured sad personal losses. I wasn’t around when she was first lady and could very well be missing much.

  97. The Real "Cool" Dave says

    @ et al.

    Dave says (changed to “Cool”- December 6, 2014 at 3:41 am
    “Off topic slightly —
    I won an auction on e-bay for 2, Morgan dollars (Raw) . . . ”
    —————————————————————————————–

    Here are my findings ( as to counterfeit or not):

    Morgan $1 Silver Dollar. New Orleans Mint Mark “O”

    Magnet test: Non-remarkable

    Weight test: 26.74 grams (Scale to 1/1000 & used 2 scales)

    Diameter 38.1 mm, reeded edge

    Black Light: Non-remarkable

    Scope test: 20 & 40 power – Good/normal flow lines. Slightly weak strike on one coin. Note: Not uncommon for New Orleans. Mint. Second coin good strike.

    Loupe 5X: Good luster. Condition, et cetera. Second coin is “O/O,” VAM-21; will grade MS-64/65. Second coin, normal mint mark will MS-65, possibly 66.

    Items look better than picture, seller might have used stock or photos from pub.

    Determination: Authentic/Genuine

  98. Mr. Kairu says

    Seeing as you have determined the Morgans are authentic/genuine and in better condition than previously thought, well done Dave!

  99. The Real "Cool" Dave says

    @Mr. Kairu says -December 6, 2014 at 2:48 pm
    “Seeing as you have determined . . ”

    Thank you Sir!

  100. Keep Calm & Stack On says

    Arches in AtB tab – OOS

    Arches in Silver Coins tab – In Stock

    It’s amazing how smart & capable the new website upgrade is, talk about total inventory control management, down to individual offering pages, I’m impressed!

  101. VA Bob says

    WCubes – Like Dave said, grading is subjective. IMO ANACS currently has a broader range of criteria as to what constitutes a certain grade, especially on moderns. That’s not to say they won’t grade a 70 as a 70, others might call it a 69. When a big company like HSN has clout over the grade of coins it wants for resale, that is a concern. I’ve just seen too many 1 of 1000, etc. to feel comfortable on that program. It’s all too neat.

    Older, circulated coins I would feel more comfortable with, because there are established wear markers for practically every coin. Once your in the MS/PF 60 – 70 realm, even more subjectivity is applied like bag marks, scratches, dings, luster, and eye appeal. ANACS as far as I know handles these well, but if someone feels they get more value from NGC or PCGS, they are probably going to go that way. There are lots of old coins in ANACS holders out there, and definitely worth a look, because bargains can be found.

    IMO if you’re into slabs and moderns, stick with the big two for now, skip the gimmicks unless you want to sell in the near future to the uninformed that will pay for those gimmicks. If you’re buying at a show, refuse to pay extra for the fluff, it’s the coin you want after all. If someone is trying to sell you ER/FS, a pretty colored label, or a signature, they selling the hype along with a coin. Most dealers shoot that stuff down when they buy with the same reasoning I provided, so why let them sell that to you? They will usually make the deal on the coin if it’s fair, and no less informed buyer is in sight. EBay is chum infested waters, shows/shops (with exceptions) are less so. Hope that answers your follow up question better. I’m sure some folks here would disagree, and give their own opinion. That’s fine. Do what you think is right for you.

  102. Dave SW FL says

    Anyone who was considering the MCM enhanced graded set discussed yesterday, be aware that they will not even begin to ship until Dec. 17.
    Ungraded set prices are slipping on the bay and the graders probably will too with the MCM offering. The graded could become another flippers nightmare if there is a preponderance of 69 graded.
    As for the ungraded, I considered flipping my original 2 sets, but have since decided to keep them and all of the 2nd 10 sets only gifting sets to my brother (who got me started collecting) and the grandkids (hoping to pique their interest in collecting.)

    I believe the coin will hold its value down the road. Also, I now am “forced” to continue the type set of enhanced coins.

  103. The Real "Cool" Dave says

    @VA Bob says -December 6, 2014 at 3:47 pm
    “Glad it worked out Dave.”

    Thanks! Yeah me too — this I the “risk” I had mentioned in another post under the 2014 C & C Set. I weighed the cost benefit and calculate the risk; I knew the seller would let me return them if necessary. So, I would potentially only be out, some postage and my time. As it turns out, I ended up with a nice little gain.

    Speaking of grading, I am going to send them off and see how close my grade prediction comes to the TPG grade. In the past I have found that my predicted grade was much more rigorous/tougher than the TPG grade, which always comes as a nice surprise.

  104. TimTom says

    @The Real Cool Dave – Now that you posted that watch em come back AU-58 Improperly cleaned LOL.

  105. bg35765 says

    WCubes – VA Bob has some very good advice in his post above. The truth of the matter is that all three grading companies have ethical issues when it comes to grading moderns.

    PCGS gives higher grades to coins submitted at a show where a higher grading fee is paid. They also charge their dealers lower grading fees on a 69 than a 70 when they do a bulk submission. This creates an inherent conflict of interest and the grader is well aware of that when he gets a batch of 100+ identical coins to grade. When he later grades a small submission from an individual club member he is likely to use that as an opportunity to “even things out” by giving the individual a bunch of 69s.

    As stated, ANACS is in bed with the guy from HSN. I am especially suspicious of their First Day of Issue labels. The Kennedy 2 coin clad set was issued on the first day only to people who stood in line in Philadelphia and Denver. Yet somehow HSN guy got 2,014 sets labeled First Day of Issue all graded SP69.

    NGC has the same issues that PCGS does with the bulk grading, although individual submitters seem to not have the problems getting decent grades there as much as they do with PCGS. But NGC is quickly becoming a joke and I think is the most likely of the big two to take a serious hit to their reputation in the future.

    They figured out that some of their Silver Eagle collectors would want to buy an example of each label that they produced. At first it was just the brown. Then the blue early release. Then the blue first release (which means the exact same thing as early). Then they created a label with a flag on it. Then they created embarrassing holiday labels with a Christmas tree or a snowman. Then they let MCM have a label exclusive to them. Then they created a special label for the pawn shop in Las Vegas featured on the show “Pawn Stars”.

    This year for the baseball commemoratives they came up with another embarrassing idea, which was to put facsimile autographs of baseball players on the labels. Some of these players have been dead for a better part of a century, but their “autograph” is on a coin dated 2014.

    They sold enough of those that they figured they could create the same magic with silver eagles. So now they have 30 different All Star baseball player fake autographs on silver eagle slabs despite the fact that there is no connection between silver eagles and baseball at all.

    What do we have to look forward to next year from NGC? Personally I am hoping for slabs with fake autographs of the top 20 sleaziest coin dealers in the country. Maybe with a picture of the dealers standing in line with a group of homeless people to buy a Kennedy gold commemorative. That would be fitting.

    So, to summarize in three words: Stick to OGP

  106. Keep Calm & Stack On says

    WCubes – you probably have your answer by now, though I’ll chime in here – I took an NGC grading class recently as was taken back with real stories of fraud and unscrupulous practices within this industry that was shared on a non attribution basis. It was really eye opening – to be safe, stick with the big two.

    VA Bob and BG pretty much hit the nail on the head. I’ll drop the notes that I posted from the class below that may be some value ~

  107. Keep Calm & Stack On says

    • VA Rich says
    November 2, 2014 at 8:27 am
    …Learned a lot from the class, and appreciate the openness of the dialogue- it was really insightful. I learned that I can’t tell the difference between 1926-D 5c that is spliced and halved back together with a different reverse to make a MS67 and the real thing! I’ll share some highlights that relate to past discussions/comments over the past year as I recall.
    – Grading is FAR MORE subjective than I realized. I think we’re our on worst enemy thinking these grades are the end all. It was interesting to hear that someone submitted a coin 23 times to PCGS and finally got the desired grade, talk about grading fees!
    – There was discussion on grading practices and policies that was in a very profession context, I can’t go into the details here, though I WILL NEVER buy a slabbed coin from any TPG other than NGC/PCGS, which also guarantee their product.
    – All grading is done by hand. NGC attempted to use a computer with software written to grade Morgans, though couldn’t get height determination right – so no computer grading. There’s only like 22 graders which 9-10 focus on moderns, 10 world graders, and 1 ancient.
    – If you want to be a grader you won’t be taking vacation January thru March as you’ll grading Eagles at a rate of 1 per 3-5 seconds. Yeah
    – My hats off the individual graders as they seem to have such a passion for coins. The impression that I got is that they know coins so intimately they need 10-20 seconds to make a grade, unless it’s a rarity.
    – NGC’s process is to have 3 graders review each coin, unless it’s a bulk run or moderns and if they agree it gets slabbed I recall. They have no idea whose coins they are grading, the First Baseman receives the coins in a flip via a runner, after the second review the Finalizer approves the grade or made the final determination.
    – We were taught just a use our vision and rotate under incandescent light. Only used a 5x magnification to go into problem areas. I used my loupe too much!
    – Rotating the coin under good light is key. Start with it upright and then turn 90 degrees and rotate again.
    – I learned a lot about toning, and would NEVER buy a toned coin that wasn’t certified. Saw a 2006-W ASE that was toned, someone had drilled a hole in the top on the slab and pumped gas in to it. That resulted in a criminal case.
    – There’s a Type 3 Buff, in 1917 they made Chiefs nose a little smaller! lol
    – They don’t screw around with people altering slabbed coins and apparently criminal prosecution is rather frequent.
    – They spend a lot on technology and trying to stay ahead of counterfeits. We may see the hologram soon whereby you shoot a laser at it and NGC is projected on the wall – that’s cool.
    – Accidents to happen in the process of slabbing a coin. If a finger print is left and like tones, they will buy it back as part of the guarantee.
    – If cleaning a coin, you had better know what you’re doing, especially use of a Q tip as hairline marks may be left.
    – Had an interesting chat with a nice gentleman from the mint. I found it intriguing that they really view themselves as vendors just like everyone else at the show and not like in charge of a show when a new release is offered. The mint just wants to stick to their charter and bring new offerings out to collectors and sell coins, period. They could care less about dealers and there’s no cahoots going on. They really didn’t expect the high sales of the JFK clads and were taken back on the bus loads after the gold JFKs, the level of demand at the show totally unexpected . Due to the complexities of production, packaging, shipping, etc., they often don’t know how much product will be available for shows.
    – Many of the questions we ask on MNB and want answers too, due to the complexities of production, packaging, shipping, etc., they often don’t know either. Everything is gauged by demand trends to meet demand and minimize cost.
    – We may see UHR sales at a show next year though timing of the release may be altered from what we’ve seen in the past, if I understood correctly. I see several possibilities here for the good.
    – All in all, I walked away with strong appreciation for just how much these graders must know all about all the various coins and varieties, very impressive, and I have sooo much to learn!

  108. jhawk92 says

    @HarryB…ah, very cool. Yes, that should be quite a rocket when it is all done. I, too, hope to see Orion on SLS, but I may not be in the business much longer.

    @Cool Dave-interesting insights. I think I have a lot to learn before I start diving into some of the classic coins. Don’t want to get caught by a bad dealer or coins with issues.

  109. GoldFishin says

    @jhawk92- I have a thing for “rainbow toned” Morgan dollars and Mercury dimes. I feel like “rainbow toned” coins are unique works of art and some of them are absolutely breathtaking to me. There are a lot of examples of morgans that are toned, but not so many of the mercury dimes. I buy the majority of my coins already authenticated either by PCGS or NGC, I prefer PCGS mostly because they have added value in the secondary markets and I think they are more stringent with the grades(for the most part). I buy mostly MS63 or higher with the morgans and MS66 or higher with the mercury dimes. They can get expensive, so I probably only buy 6 or 7 in any calendar year. I can spot a fake toned coin from a football field away and there are many of them on Ebay, It pays to buy authenticated coins(toned or not) while you are learning what is what. Find what you like in the coin hobby and have fun with it…you can’t go wrong.

  110. jhawk92 says

    @GF-I will admit, the rainbow coins have grown on me. I certainly prefer those over “dirty” toning. I am attracted to nice bright silver but seeing some articles about high quality toned and graded coins makes me appreciate the unique nature of toned coins. I’ve not seen any articles on toned Mercury’s, so I’ll have to check around for them. I do see some Morgans up at auction on Great Collections and some are very nice. And yes, for anything earlier than late 40s-50s, I will be going by way of authentication.

    I wouldn’t mind getting some nice Saints but those can get pricey in a hurry, so I’m thinking my efforts may be focused on silver coins. There is something about a big silver dollar or half. 🙂

  111. Joe says

    Any ideas as to why the US Mint doesn’t make rolls of quarters in coin silver as they do in clad ?

  112. Dustyroads says

    KCSO, Thanks for taking the time to post you impressions. This is an interesting subject, plus as long as you’re buying coins the knowledge will be invaluable.

    3-5 seconds, that’s fast.
    Although I would never use a Q-tip on a valuable coin, I have used them believing I wasn’t doing any harm.
    I too would never buy a coin graded by any other than the big two.

  113. The Real "Cool" Dave says

    @TimTom says — December 6, 2014 at 5:24 pm
    “@The Real Cool Dave – Now that you posted that watch em come back AU-58 Improperly cleaned LOL.”

    Yeah — LOL! Well this isn’t my first time to the Rodeo; I did not mention cleaned since there is no evidence of cleaning. AU-58? Thought you were referring to your IQ –LOL! No idea were you got that number and you probably don’t either.

    Tell you what — throw down boy, I’ll take that bet –go ahead and put up, I am willing if you are, how about 1K?

    LOL!

  114. The Real "Cool" Dave says

    @jhawk92 says -December 6, 2014 at 7:26 pm
    “@Cool Dave-interesting insights. I think I have a lot to learn before I start diving into some of the classic coins. Don’t want to get caught by a bad dealer or coins with issues.”

    Thank you! Yeah, I hear that; as I stated, I did take some risk and have done so before. Sometimes, even the most experienced numismatist/coin collector gets fooled and/or burned; sometimes one has to pay for the education/experience they got. That is how they arrived at where they are today. And that is why I share my experiences with my son and he can share with others, as the next generation takes the helm.
    🙂

  115. The Real "Cool" Dave says

    @et al.

    One comment about NGC/PCGS or any TPG (no matter the tier) company — “grading in 3-5 seconds,” I have retained some slabed coins that absolutely were over graded for that very reason. Even returning coins bought at auction for the same reason. (“In my opinion,” my lawyer makes me say this).

    I also have some 2013 Eagles that I have been meaning to send back for reconsideration, since they appear to have been under graded, as well.

    Yes, I do occasionally send coins in for grading; however lets not forget one thing — they are a business in business for one reason and one primary reason only — to make money.

    My late father who was a coin dealer and respected in his field, use to say all the time, that the coin business can be a “racket.” And, as I too have learned, YES it can be.

    Nevertheless, the TPG’s exist for a reason; we also must not forget that grading is more of an art than science and hence subjective by nature.

  116. Clark says

    After the discussion of Jackie O as one of the better first spouses, I made an effort to learn a bit more about her. I was surprised to learn that in 1968 following the assassination of her former brother-in-law. Robert Kennedy, Jackie declared, “I want to get out of this country,” whereupon she married Aristotle Onassis and fled the USA, but eventually returned. With that, I am left to wonder if any other first spouses in history were as uncomfortable on U.S. soil as she was.

    I’ll buy the Jackie O FS coin because I’m collect the set, but I’m thinking Alice Paul was more worthy of a $10 gold coin than Jackie O. IMO.

  117. Tinto says

    Interesting reading on coin collecting, TPG, grading, dealers, etc. thanks folks.

    I don’t buy much from Ebay most of my modern coins have been bought from the Mint (or from a dealer like Apmex for bullion ATB’s) except for some that I did not buy when they were issued and there have been some big ones … so I turned to a large auctioneer for those and I probably made a mistake there …. 17.5 percent commission and close to a 9 percent sales tax …. thought one could get a bargain via this route but you gotta factor in the commission and sales tax ….. and they bite!

    I had to sell some of my stuff to a major coin dealer a while back … yeah quite a humiliating experience … unless they absolutely needed your modern coins (and normally PM stuff ) and they will offer you less than the spot price of the precious metal content … and talk about put-downs on one’s coins .. if it’s a common clad stuff life a clad proof set or unc. set … they will even refuse to buy unless the rest of what you are selling makes up for their inconvenience …….

  118. VA Bob says

    Well Clark there was one that “wasn’t proud” of the country until her husband was elected, but I don’t believe you will see a coin for her anytime soon. Also, I’m not sure if she’d rather be somewhere other than the USA, as like the women before her, the taxpayers have treated her extremely well. Personally I don’t put much stock in Presidential spouses as a subject for coins in general. All of them were there along for the ride. I’m not against significant First Ladies that really did something, getting a coin. Dolly Madison (who had a commem) comes to mind. She is responsible for saving a lot of American treasures when the British burned DC. Others were good, but would they have done the things they did if they weren’t in that position? Not knocking the series, it’s impressive, just would have rather seen a worthier topic for such a prestigious set (that I couldn’t afford anyway, lol). I do pick up a set of the bronzes each year.

  119. Keep Calm & Stack On says

    GF – I just went back through my twenty sets again and came up with four (again) that look spot on. Hands down 69’s – two are worthy of SP 70 in my opinion. Like anything, when you see enough of them, you know what to look for and I can’t find a flaw at 5x. I plan to send the 4 in and we’ll see what comes back.

    Besides the obvious things to look for such as clear fields and centered coins, here’s what made those 4 stand out –
    – the lack of the prevalent shiny tick mark right under her chin
    – smooth cheeks without abrasions
    – clean rims (Obverse, Reverse)
    – Goodard did an amazing job with her eyes, they really are beautiful eyes, the eyes seem to be good indicators of strike strength, two of the four stand out in the eyes

    You decide if you’re firing off any?

  120. GoldFishin says

    @Tinto-
    Tinto says-“I had to sell some of my stuff to a major coin dealer a while back … yeah quite a humiliating experience … unless they absolutely needed your modern coins (and normally PM stuff ) and they will offer you less than the spot price of the precious metal content … and talk about put-downs on one’s coins .. if it’s a common clad stuff life a clad proof set or unc. set … they will even refuse to buy unless the rest of what you are selling makes up for their inconvenience …….”

    This is the main reason I don’t retain clad coins in my collection. I intend to pass my collection on to my son and most dealers won’t give you the time of day for clad sets, they just have too difficult a time selling them in their shops. Of course there are exceptions, but not many.
    This is also a reason I keep a healthy balance of bullion over numismatics, if you can combine the two, all the better. At least with bullion you expect the dealer to offer you spot price minus premium. History has shown that gradually over time PM prices increase, as the cost of goods and services inflate. I expect to be around for several more decades and if my son holds on to the collection and chooses to pass it on to his kids it could eventually have very meaningful value.
    I have told my son if he ever chooses to sell the collection, to make sure he sells it on Ebay if they are still around, or whatever is the best place to sell in his time. Research the coins and sell them individually if possible to maximize prices realized. In my opinion there are still small coin dealers that will treat you fairly, but they are gradually being replaced by all these newbie street corner buyers that only make offers based on the PM content with zero paid for numismatic value. They may know what a coin is worth, but will try and steal it from you basically. It is always better to try and sell to other collectors if possible, in whatever forum you find them.
    Thank you for sharing your humbling experiences, hopefully it will help prevent others from having similar issues in the future.

  121. GoldFishin says

    @KCSO – I thought I may have had one that was worthy of a 69, but the others had too many detractions…I posted about it a couple days ago. I think you are spot on with your assessment and I was really surprised with the clarity of Sac’s face and the other raised details on the coins. I think it is possible to have one grade 70, unless the TPG’s just decide they won’t give that grade. The most recurring things I saw were marks on Sac’s arm and rim dents/dings. But, I had a very small sampling. What I have done with mine? Did you check out my linked video from last night? 🙂 Good luck to you and post your results when you get them, please. Thanks.

  122. GoldFishin says

    @KCSO- If you are submitting your coins, I have found it is better to send in more than just your best examples….send in a couple more that you don’t expect to grade perfectly to give the grader some coins to make their percentages. I know this sounds too conspiratorial, but I have learned the hard way that you won’t get back all top grades if you only send in your best, without some lesser examples. Of course, you have to weigh the cost of submitting with the potential gain/loss of coins received back to see if it is worth sending in lesser examples, but this has been my experience, especially with PCGS. jmho

  123. Keep Calm & Stack On says

    That’s funny GF – thanks for posting, man I felt old watching that – brought back Saturday morning memories when I waited anxiously for the Charlie Chips guy to swing by with a tub for Flipper time! Think I was sustaining off a diet of kool aid, pop rocks and CC’s back then!

    Appreciate the submission advice, that validates a “perception” that’s been on my mind. I also wonder about sending in submissions in 3 days apart get different graders. I haven’t submitted much before, just BHoFs and feel like a I have a PhD in assessing those, & it goes without saying, my results varied greatly across some of the best BHoFs I have ever seen. Oh, and many of my 69’s are still superior to other 70’s I purchased to help assemble complete sets.

  124. GoldFishin says

    @KCSO- if you are still interested in buying your JFK silver graded coins…now is the time. You can now buy all of them except the RP for less than the cost of coin and grading with many auctions closing in the $55-$60 range. The RP proof is now settling less than $100. We now have the right combination of excessive supply and dissipating demand with coins that haven’t been picked over. I have decided to just keep my OGP sets, 2 unsealed and 2 sealed and forgo buying anything graded. I have spent too much money lately on bullion purchases and want to buy more.

    Charles Chips…now that brings back memories..only the best chips ever!! My dad used to put them way up high above our china cabinet, so we kids couldn’t reach them…what was he thinking? We didn’t know how to use a chair to stand on? Hey, we used the “settling chips” explanation long before the snack companies did! 😉

  125. Brad says

    GoldFishin,

    Charles Chips. I remember that big tin in my parents’ pantry on the top shelf. Wow, I hadn’t thought about those chips in decades! I loved your reference to “settling chips”, too. Thanks for the laugh and memories!

  126. The Real "Cool" Dave says

    @GoldFishin says – December 7, 2014 at 10:20 am
    “I have told my son if he ever chooses to sell the collection, to make sure he sells it on Ebay if they are still around, or whatever is the best place to sell in his time. Research the coins and sell them individually if possible to maximize prices realized. ”

    Yeah, this almost identical to what I told my son.

    @GoldFishin says -December 7, 2014 at 12:12 pm
    “- if you are still interested in buying your JFK silver graded coins…now is the time”

    It sure is– I have orders from the mint. However as you stated — I have bid sets on e-bay and ended up winning a set of graded NGC MS69’s that I really did NOT expect to win; I could not have purchased & sent in to grade for the bid/win price.

    Since I really did not expect to win, I had to basically, pay later via charge to my credit card — LOL!

  127. VA Bob says

    GoldFishin – you gave good advice on selling. I’ll recommend another, finding someone that will sell your coins on consignment for a percentage. That encourages the selling of your coins for the highest price they can (so they earn more). Make sure they provide the sellers information, and/or a signed bill of sale so you can spot check the buyer to ensure the price they paid. Some dealers will do this and some people have made it into a business. Use someone reputable.

  128. Keep Calm & Stack On says

    That’s frigg’n hilarious! Same here, in the cabinet above the fridge – took stacked phone books on top of a stool to fetch the bounty. After the bun warming I received after knocking over a bag of confectioner sugar, the message sunk in my thick rebellious head!

    I’m in the same boat my friend, got a little trigger happy last month so sitting on the sidelines for a while. Not only being Kennedy’ed out – I LOST A LOT of ENTHUSIASM when the mint announced a 225,000 mintage on the silvers, this thing could go on a long time! On this DMPL, you think we could see considerable price reduction in due time, or it’s a situation of, it is what it is? Thx

  129. Keep Calm & Stack On says

    A&L – you know MSGT Cedric King? (Thought he may be of the same year group as you). He spoke at the Walter Reed Christmas party – what an impressive and inspirational leader! One just can’t have a bad day when you think of his challenge & accomplishments as your reference point. We’ve had a lot of military theme coin out here, though I always felt the Infantry and MOH coins were appropriate and excellently conceived for a Commemorative given the sacrifices and victories being achieved daily what we rarely hear of, anyway, want to pass that along for what it’s worth.

  130. GoldFishin says

    @KCSO- about the DPL (DMPL)- I guess I can talk about it now since I never got one for the price I wanted to pay and everyone knows about them now. The NGC dpl’s have increased now to 21 auctions on Ebay from around 8 and prices have started to retreat a little and seemed to have peaked. I am still not sure how the population will end up, but from the research I did of major submitters, they seem to be getting about 1 dpl coin for about every 15 enhanced coins submitted. I believe there is a lot of pre screening going on with smaller submitters and they seem to be about 1 dpl coin for every 10 submitted. The pop numbers will end up being attractive, but I think the prices are out of line with how they will end up. But who knows?
    The PCGS pop is now at only 17 coins which increased from 8 at the start of the week. Their final numbers will be low, looks like for sure, but no way would I pay 2K for one of them. Again, who knows? I am not very good at making long term predictions for limited pop coins.
    I have reinstituted price controls with my purchases and am no longer willing to risk buying obscenely priced graded coins that will sink in price. I have mentioned before that with bullion prices low and maybe falling further, that is where I am putting the majority of my investing budget.

  131. Keep Calm & Stack On says

    Excellent points – we still have a good 2-3 weeks before the last of the FS/ER coins to be graded and turned around. PCGS numbers are growing considerable so a lot of time for things to shape up; here’s where the MS lay as of 07 Dec (total graded) –

    2014-S 50C Enhanced – Silver 50th Anniversary Set, MS – 848
    2014-S 50C Enhanced – Silver 50th Anniversary Set, PL MSPL – 900
    2014-S 50C Enhanced – Silver 50th Anniversary Set, DM – 28
    2014-D 50C Silver 50th Anniversary Set , MS – 1,853

  132. GoldFishin says

    @BOB R & VA BOB- My wife and I went to Pearl Harbor while on our honeymoon trip to the Islands over 20 years ago. I still can’t get over the entire experience, to see the oil slick still rising from the sunken ship on a perfectly beautiful sunny calm day and all the Japanese tourists who bought beautiful bouquets of flowers to politely drop into the water was really quite surreal. I had all sorts of mixed feelings and really didn’t know what to think. But a couple decades later, having traveled to many third world economies, I have come to the simple conclusion that “institutional government’s” for the most part suck and regular people for the most part don’t. Thank you guys!!

  133. GoldFishin says

    @KCSO- LOL…I had no idea I was caught on tape….you just have to be so careful nowadays with all these smartphones!! 😉 “don’t worry, you’ve already flipped yours and made $3000” …. 🙂

  134. SactoMike says

    Once again, the Mint’s “product limit” issues spell doom in the secondary market for collectors. As I pointed out in August on several blogs, neither the Gold JFK or the silver sets would have much real traction of appreciation in the secondary market because of the lengthy ordering periods without true, obtainable mintage limits. While one poster noted that a box of 5 FS eligible JFK golds sold for $7,500, it should be noted that price is down $2,000 from the original asking price. And “first day” issues are such a thin market that few are even trading them. The FD 70s were listed in the $5,000 to $7,000 range early on, only to plummet to the mid $2500 level. Many of those who paid PCGS and NGC to slab the silver sets are noticing that not all 4 coins are coming back with the same grade. What then? My neighbor had 3 returned as 69s, the reverse proof a 70; another had an even split. Which means you need to buy a FS70 to complete a 70 four-coin set. Translated, it costs way more than what the secondary market is commanding, save for a very few exceptions. This is a classic example of the grading services making out like bandits, and the collectors getting hosed. Sad.

  135. VA Bob says

    GoldFishin – Yeah it is a powerful place. You can almost feel it being there. I know a trip to Hawaii is probably the last thing on the mind of many of the commenters here, but if you do, I highly recommend seeing the PH Memorial. Those men and women were true heroes.

  136. TimTom says

    @Real Cool Dave – TROLOLOL … meant it as a joke … I’m sure your grading abilities are surely up to snuff … good luck with them 🙂

  137. Bob R says

    My father fought in WW2 in the navy on a PT boat during the naval Battle of the Surigao Strait in the Philippines. My uncle (his brother) was a paratrooper 101st Airborne Division during the Normandy Invasion, whom broke his leg severely upon landing. He finished his duties during the war in the OSS. I asked him when I was a kid what did he do, his reply was “beat the hell out of German POW officers until they talked” . Sorry for the rant

  138. fmtransmitter says

    I have mentioned before that with bullion prices low and maybe falling further, that is where I am putting the majority of my investing budget.

    Yes, you have, about every other post…j/k

  139. fmtransmitter says

    Forgive my lack of knowledge, so PCGS, when grading, does a PL and a DM. Do they do a DMPL or are they seperate, ONLY either a DM or a PL grade?

  140. GoldFishin says

    @FMT- DM is mostly used in place of DMPL on PCGS’s website when referencing pop reports and on online submission forms, etc.

  141. The Real "Cool" Dave says

    @TimTom says-December 7, 2014 at 5:31 pm
    “@Real Cool Dave – TROLOLOL . . . ”

    The message came across as sarcastic and snide; I felt it did not contribute to the discussion that I had taken the time to post, since others had expressed an interest in the outcome of my review. So, I did find it offensive.

    The context in which you put your message, did not lend itself to me as a joke; even if it was meant to be serious — I can say for sure, there is no way those would grade AU58 and they were not cleaned; they are very nice with their original luster bordering PL condition.

    The only way they might grade AU – per the previous post above about NGC admitting “mistakes do happen.”

    I appreciate you being big enough to advise – explanation accepted.

  142. TimTom says

    @The Real Cool Dave – No problem at all — I really should have been more clear with my (intended) humor OR pressed the jocular button on my keyboard — meant it more in the vein of “TPG sees informed buyer boasting about gem grade, puts them in place by assigning it a slider grade” — never my intention to cause trouble where there was none, especially on a seemingly safe internet blog. Who would’ve thunk it? LOL 🙂 Thanks for the clarification and, again, good luck with the Morgans.

  143. The Real "Cool" Dave says

    @Erik H says — December 7, 2014 at 9:50 pm
    “A Currency Set just closed for $20.70 with free shipping on eBay. There goes the prices”

    Just one? Might not if it is just an anomaly?

  144. Bernie in FL says

    Off Topic:

    Has anyone sent their Sags C&C’s to PCGS and had any come back yet? If so, what was the grade and the Label? I heard thru the grape vine that PCGS would Not do a special label or even give them a First Strike designation.

    Anyone out there with any info on this?

  145. The Real "Cool" Dave says

    @TimTom says –December 7, 2014 at 9:16 pm
    “@The Real Cool Dave – No problem at all . . . ”

    Yeah — I see your point. My data was not meant to be a boast, just an informative example. However, this is just a good time to emphasis to BUY the COIN and NOT the slab/label.

    If NGC appeared to do something like that, I would phone/e-mail/write to David Hall — I am sure he would not be to happy about his company grader pulling a stunt like that (especially if obvious) — he has a reputation to maintain and I am sure he would not want that getting around with pictures of the coins/slabs.

    Not too mention, it would not be too hard to remedy something like that — remember their is more than on TPG and many reputable appraiser/dealers.

    Something to keep in mind all — you don’t need to have a title to accurately grade/appraise a coins condition. There are known dealers and collector’s who have a reputation for accurately assigning a grade to a coin.

  146. jhawk92 says

    @Cool Dave-yes, I’m sure there will be “oops’s” in my coin collecting future. I just want to learn enough to try and make them on small purchases and not big ones. 😉

    @VA Bob-well said about someone being “not proud.”

    @Bob R-yes, and today it falls on a Sunday just like 73 years ago. Flag would be flying if I were home.

  147. Bob R says

    I understand PCGS is not doing a First Strike label Sags C&C as of this time, surprised me they do not want to go after the money.

  148. Bob R says

    @jhawk IMO you could go in and pick up some older classic more common coins at some very good prices today which should gain substantially over the next 30 years no mater what happens with the PM markets. Look into 19th century US coins, half dimes, indian pennies, barber’s etc, you can pick up some of those common ones at good prices today.

  149. GoldFishin says

    @Dave(Cool)- you mentioned in your post about the morgans the use of a blacklight. Could you detail what you are looking for and what one could expect to show up with the use of a blacklight? Is it just biological substances you are looking for or does it also help with determining alterations/counterfeits? Thanks in advance!!

  150. GoldFishin says

    @VA RIch- glad your back Va Rich….I broke down and bought a JFK Silver Proof 70. I couldn’t pass up the price(less than $60) and checked out the photos on NGC in advance. I am thinking I might do a Proof subset with a JFK Gold PF70, Silver PF 70, and a RP PF70. I think that would be a cool set and will save me some money also.

  151. Bob R says

    @ Hawkster, yes that is a good thing, just surprised they haven’t felt the greed, maybe they didn’t expect so many sets sold?

  152. Bernie in FL says

    @VARich and Bob R

    I know. It is Odd, everyone went to NGC to get there Sags graded with their Special Labels and most coming out as 69’s. Well, I sent my sealed box of 3 Sags form the Mint to PCGS a few days ago just to see what in the Hay they will even send me. I could have just sent them to NGC, but as you know most of us are either PCGS or NGC guy’s, and I am a PCGS guy. Well, I am also a Chevy guy instead of a Ford 🙂

    But as soon as I get my Coins back from PCGS I will let everyone know what the label is and the grade for the 3 Sag C&C’s I sent in. I requested a special label and (or) a First Strike Label. The CS over their has not called me nor notified me they cannot do it. So we will see…..

    The First Strike maybe a mute point from PCGS as if we are actually Sold out of Sag C&C from the Mint it makes No difference. Since PCGS may not offer a FS label it seems they knew the Mint was Sold Out. Maybe they got an overwhelming Grading Order from a Company and knew something.

    Because you are right. They are a Publicly traded company and have a fiduciary responsibility to their share holders to Make Money. So it makes No since they are passing up on this unquice situation. Any idea guy’s? Or is this Typical PCGS ??????????????

  153. Bob R says

    B in Fl, I just think they missed the boat not expecting it, kinda like the BHOF young collector set, just another clad coin in a set.

  154. Bob R says

    The PM is down in Asia at this time, so let’s see if the last 2 week trend continues and they will be up this side of the pond.

  155. Bob R says

    Really enjoying watching the PBS series “The Roosevelt’s: An Intimate History” again, when it get’s down to the nut’s and bolt’s of numismatics most of us love history, IMO.

  156. The Real "Cool" Dave says

    @GoldFishin says – December 7, 2014 at 11:22 pm
    “@Dave(Cool)- you mentioned in your post about the morgans the use of a blacklight.“

    Fluorescent substances absorb the ultraviolet light and then re-emit it almost instantaneously. Some energy gets lost in the process, so the emitted light has a longer wavelength than the absorbed radiation, which makes this light visible and causes the material to appear to glow.

    -By Anne Marie Helmenstine, Ph.D. (Chemistry)

    In a nut shell: Grease, petroleum jelly (used to “rub” coins), body fluids (as you mentioned), detergent’s/bake soda (residue), toothpaste and all kinds of other crap (glue, braze lines, wax and on & on) that can be used.

    You got it, hit the nail on the head, “determining alterations/counterfeits,” cleaned, altered, et cetera, et cetera. I don’t know if the grading boys due this or not, I doubt it, that is often why coins spot in the slabs.

    Nobody will take care or give more caution than the owner of the coins.

    One thing the graders (top tier or otherwise) will probably not admit — even they can be fooled.

  157. The Real "Cool" Dave says

    @jhawk92 says -December 7, 2014 at 10:24 pm
    “@Cool Dave-yes, I’m sure there will be “oops’s” in my coin collecting future. I just want to learn enough to try and make them on small purchases and not big ones.”

    Oh, for sure — you’ve got to start somewhere! Believe me everyone learns this way and believe it or not many have made some pretty interesting goofs on larger purchases, I know I have.

    Again, sometimes that is the cost of an education at, Numismatic/Coin Collecting University (NCCU).

  158. The Real "Cool" Dave says

    @Bernie in FL says –December 7, 2014 at 11:37 pm
    “I could have just sent them to NGC, but as you know most of us are either PCGS or NGC guy’s, and I am a PCGS guy. Well, I am also a Chevy guy instead of a Ford.+

    I use NGC and also have no problem with ANACS, pound for pound I think they do an excellent job, as well; I have purchased many slabbed ANACS coins. Sometimes I think they do even better.

    By the way, I am a Dodge boy myself 🙂

  159. Keep Calm & Stack On says

    GF – congrats on the great deal! (BTW, I had to revert back to an old phone which is driving me nuts, it has a mind of it’s own and sends what it wants, my 4-coin set will come in the form of new phone by EOM which sucks). I’m really surprised the silvers have dropped in price so fast, I truly thought it would be in about 3 weeks and we’d see demand taper off. I can’t help but to think the flipper population has been culled somewhat as this is the 3rd ‘go’ which has followed the same quick spiral drop off in secondary value. Unless you’re bringing something unique to the table (unfortunately in the form of a label most likely, what’s the point unless you’re a volume dealer). Oh well. Don’t forget, if you go with a Proof sub-set, budget for a Mint State 70 DM “Proof-Like” as well, …wonder if that comes in Zebra variety as well, how fitting?

  160. Keep Calm & Stack On says

    I need to ask a dumb question for my edification, how many Dave’s are there really out here? I thought I once knew, not so much anymore…

  161. Keep Calm & Stack On says

    When looking at your Sacabucks, don’t forget to check the position of the edge inscriptions (Position A or B whether the coins edge inscriptions read correctly or upside down when the coins obverse faces up) – not implying anything, but you never know

  162. cagcrisp says

    I track ALL bay Sales of the Gold BHOF, Silver BHOF, Gold Kennedy and Gold Saint Gaudens. Sunday was the Most Active day in months across all product lines. It APPEARS that Sunday was Cyber Sunday for the coins that I follows. Seems to be a Good time for sellers. Across all products that I follow on a Percentage basis there were many items Sold that surpassed previous sell prices.

  163. Dave SW FL says

    The NA C&C sets will continue to plummet in sales price due to the glut by the flipper dumpers on the Bay. There are currently 435 sets for sale there and certainly a boatload more to come when the additional sets are received.
    Any true value will probably take years to be recognized, unless , of course, you get a cherished 70 from PCGS .

    In this case, sold out at the mint will not translate to a bump in prices – that happened with the speculation of early low mintage sellout.

  164. Dustyroads says

    Surly the NA C&C sets will see some uptick eventually. It’s easy to anticipate them selling at the present level while stocks are high, but hopefully they can rise in value to $50.00 or more in OGP before long. I like to compare these to the 2007 Washington dollar coin with missing edge lettering. It’s widely believed, as far as I know, that there are around 50,000 of the coins in existence, but since there are many other “missing edge lettering” coins out there of other Presidential dollars in lower numbers, these seem to escape interest from most collectors and sell in the $35.00 range. The NA C&C sacabuck’s look to fit a nice spot to remain an interesting coin to collect on down the road as it really doesn’t have a competitor. Much like the 1997-P Jefferson matte finish nickel at 25,000 total, it very much stands alone, and as most of us know even the 1994-P matte finish nickel with it’s much higher mintage of 167,703 demands a greater amount today than some are anticipating the sacabuck’s ever reaching. True, the collector base is believed to be smaller for the NA C&C set coins, so only time will tell, but I won’t stop believing too quickly, because native American Indian themed coins are indeed loved by many.

  165. JBK says

    I finally opened my 4 sets this weekend, and I was floored. These are beautiful coins. If I never collected another dollar coin I would still want one of these. They are unique in their own right. If the Mint starts pumping out tons of EU coins then maybe this could get lost in the shuffle and appeal only to Sac collectors, but otherwise, this is special coin that would appeal to a wide variety of collectors. At original issue price it is a bargain and I would encourage anyone who is remotely interested to get one if/when they go back on sale.

  166. Frankie says

    ^
    With regards to the presidential dollar coins with missing edge lettering – these were man-made by an ex-US Mint employee who now serves time… These should be considered as illegitimate and I can only hope the market will reflect that (one day).

    I honestly hope the US Mint continues to produce these sets containing coins with surface finishes not available elsewhere. This way, our hobby keeps being interesting. But I do hope household limits are being established!

  167. The Real "Cool" Dave says

    @Frankie says -December 8, 2014 at 12:26 pm
    ” With regards to the presidential dollar coins with missing edge lettering . . . ”

    No, not entirely correct — yes, there were SOME, but not all.

    “These should be considered as illegitimate and I can only hope the market will reflect that (one day).”

    I believe and history has shown that it will be just the opposite. 🙂

  168. The Real "Cool" Dave says

    Look at this weirdness on the last order that I placed:

    Order Placed: Dec 5, 2014

    Order Status: Please contact Customer Support: CREATED

    Order Number: USM0277XXX3

  169. cagcrisp says

    @The Real “Cool” Dave, I Don’t see that the video says that the Mint has stopped Sales “for good”. Just the opposite.

  170. The Real "Cool" Dave says

    @cagcrisp says -December 8, 2014 at 1:41 pm
    “@The Real “Cool” Dave, I Don’t see that the video says that the Mint has stopped Sales “for good”. Just the opposite.”

    Ok — thanks, that is why I ended with the “?” mark. I could not quite make out all the sound on my notebook.

  171. Dan in Fla says

    I cannot read all the above entries as some of them are very long.
    The Mint juat informed me that the coin and currency sets are sold out for this year.

  172. fmtransmitter says

    If it really is an error; how did it slip past PCGS???

    It didn’t, it says it is “Minor Variety” right on the label…

  173. fmtransmitter says

    NC_Stacker says
    DECEMBER 8, 2014 AT 2:30 PM

    @Pool Shark

    It didn’t slip past PCGS they have it marked as a DDR

    LOL get off my party line…lmao

  174. cagcrisp says

    @Dan in Fla, “In announcing the resumption of sales, U.S. Mint officials said Dec. 3 that the bureau plans to produce the maximum authorization of 50,000 sets. “We did not anticipate such high demand, but are very pleased that so many of our customers are interested in the set because of the Native American $1 Coin,” Mint spokesman Michael White said Dec. 3 in announcing the resumption of sales”

    SO….Once you see sales of 50,000 you will know they are no longer available. Tomorrows numbers should give you a good indication of how Close to 50,000 have been Sold…

  175. jj says

    @Dan – mint rep just informed me as well. the $1 CC set is indeeed SOLD OUT . congrats to those that got one!

  176. Ralph says

    Dan & JJ : Thanks for the information. Should see the price rise now!
    fmtransmitter ; just checked out that coin discovery set. Very interesting! When I enlarged the coins., they all seem to be 2014 Kennedy’s, Proof, Uncirculated & Circulating? Maybe the Uncirculated is from a 2014 Mint Set. Proof from a Proof Set & Circulating from rolls.

  177. IPS_STUFF says

    Has anyone received a ship date for TA9 that was placed on 12/4

    I have tracking for 12/3 placed orders. I am wondering if many of the 12/4 orders will not be filled.

    Thanks

  178. Alfred E. Numismatic says

    As Cag said, NO ONE will know the sold out factor UNTIL TOMORROW’S sales figures through yesterday are published – Mint reps (ie. clueless mint CS phone sales people) especially. They get the same info screen that you do if you log on to the Mint’s web site. Now, let’s all kick back & have some fun speculating whilst waiting.

  179. CasualCollector says

    For the C&C Sets, has anyone gotten any Interesting patterns on their Dollar Bill? Also, do we have a record of the current Lowest and Highest Serial Numbers?

  180. M says

    So if one removes the SAC to preserve the packaging…submits…can we still get a standard Early Releases Label with Enhanced designation…just no C&C Label????

  181. I started collecting yesterday says

    I’m glad fmtransmitter and albumaccumulator mentioned the Kennedy Uncirculated and Circulated coins in the Intro to Coin Collecting Set. I know I only started collecting yesterday, but I thought the Mint ended circulating Kennedys years ago.

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