A Glimpse Inside the Vault of the West Point Mint

Screen grab from the Mint's B-roll footage inside the West Point Mint, posted on YouTube November 25, 2016.

Screen grab from the Mint’s B-roll footage inside the West Point Mint, posted on YouTube November 25, 2016. The signatures on the wall are from past visitors (one being then–Mint Director Edmund Moy, who’s pictured in the vault in part 3 of MNB’s series “Mint in Crisis”).

A few weeks ago, the Mint posted on its YouTube channel a bit of B-roll footage shot inside the West Point Mint’s vaults. While the video isn’t particularly newsworthy, just a few miscellaneous shots (such being the nature of B-rolls), the sight of those stacks of gold and silver is always a little breathtaking—like walking into a dragon’s lair.

Around the 50-second mark, a Mint employee weighs a gold bar that comes in at 400.096 troy ounces. At a price of $1,125 per ounce, that bar’s value is $451,080.

(Video courtesy of the United States Mint)

The West Point facility was built in 1937 to store silver bullion, but began striking one-cent coins in 1973. In 1980, the facility began to strike gold medallions, and soon afterward, its vaults were made home to $20 billion in U.S. Mint gold. On March 31, 1988, it was officially made a branch of the United States Mint; although it still serves as a storage facility, the West Point Mint produces all Proof and Uncirculated silver, gold, and platinum American Eagle bullion coins; the 1-ounce American Buffalo gold bullion coin; and commemorative coinage as authorized by Congress.

In 2000, the West Point Mint struck the first-ever gold and platinum bimetallic coin: the Library of Congress Bicentennial $10 gold coins, both Uncirculated and Proof. (The companion Uncirculated and Proof silver dollars were struck at Philadelphia.) While commemorative and circulating bimetallic coinage have caught on in other countries, the United States has so far not embraced the format, and the Library of Congress gold/platinum coin remains the country’s first and only bimetallic issue.

2000-W Library of Congress Bicentennial gold and platinum bimetallic Proof coin. (Photo courtesy of APMEX)

2000-W Library of Congress Bicentennial gold and platinum Proof coin. (Photo courtesy of APMEX)

Security at the West Point Mint prohibits public tours, and only special visitors are admitted. The rest of us will have to be content with Mint footage and photos, or visitor images like those from former Mint Director Edmund Moy, who included snapshots of his visit to the vault in his American Gold and Platinum Eagles (Whitman, 2014).  ❑






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Comments

  1. cagcrisp says

    Here is a Demographic Problem for numismatics. This is quote from Today’s Wall Street Journal…

    “Almost 40% of young Americans were living with their parents, siblings or other relatives in 2015, the largest percentage since 1940, according to an analysis of census data by real estate tracker Trulia.

    Despite a rebounding economy and recent job growth, the share of those between the ages of 18 and 34 doubling up with parents or other family members has been rising since 2005. Back then, before the start of the last recession, roughly one out of three were living with family.

    The trend runs counter to that of previous economic cycles, when after a recession-related spike, the number of younger Americans living with relatives declined as the economy improved.”

  2. says

    We all know the WSJ is merely a mouthpiece for evil Wall Street. 🙂
    For those interested in reading the entire article cited by cagcrisp, above, just click on the WSJ link found here.

  3. cagcrisp says

    Since the election, the Dow is up ~ 1,600 points. ~ 25% of that 1,600 point increase is due to ONE STOCK….Goldman Sachs

    There is NO stock more Wall Street than Goldman Sachs

    Trump has tapped 3 current or former Goldman Sachs people to be a part of his administration. Most Notably will be the new Secretary of Treasury Stephen Mnuchin

    SO…Whether you like Wall Street or not…Wall Street will be front and center for the next 4 years and will shape and form the direction the Mint will go…

  4. says

    I doubt evil Wall Street gives a hoot about what happens at the U.S. Mint. 🙂

    But, back to the topic of U.S. demographics, the WSJ also reported today that growth of the U.S. population has slowed to its lowest level since the ’30s. Click here for a link to the article.

    I guess if your future economic prospects look dim, then you’ll probably defer starting or adding to a family. And the same would apply to starting or adding to a coin collection.

  5. cagcrisp says

    Wall Street gives a hoot about Gold, either Plus or Minus. Under current mandated law the Mint would not be self sustainable (profitable) without Gold/ Silver.

    SO…what happens to Gold/Silver impacts the US Mint…which impacts all numismatics…which impacts MNB blog…

  6. So Krates says

    With millions in gold just laying around there, what is so valuable that it needs to be secured in that dinky little safe to the left of the scale in the screen grab above?

  7. says

    cagcrisp said on
    DECEMBER 21, 2016 AT 10:13 AM
    …. Under current mandated law the Mint would not be self sustainable (profitable) without Gold/ Silver. …

    Nonsense. According to the U.S. Mint’s FY2015 Annual Report (the most recent available data), total seigniorage from circulating coins that year was over a half-billion dollars ($ 566,865,000). I’m sure the U.S. Mint could stumble along without gold or silver products.

  8. JohnT58 says

    Seems like a good day to add the gold WLH to my collection. I was on the fence with this one but with the drop in price, I’ll be buying this afternoon.

  9. cagcrisp says

    With a pending Gold price Decrease this afternoon, the WLH just got More interesting.

    I did an analysis during the summer where I thought the ‘Guesstimate’ of the price for the WLH was OVERPRICED between $70 and $100.

    Problem is that some times during the summer the ‘Guesstimate’ was either $890.00 or $915.00. I really don’t remember at which of these points I did my analysis.

    SO…IF my analysis was done at $915.00 then with pending price Decrease today the WLH at $815.00 would have dropped the entire Overpriced value of $100.00 (and yes I understand that Gold has dropped $200/oz.)

    I have yet to purchase a Gold WLH (for myself) but with this afternoon’s pending price Decrease, the WLH just got More interesting…

  10. cagcrisp says

    @DR, you know as well as I do that the Mint has three lines of business, The circulation coinage is one line of business and that of course will continue because of seigniorage.

    The bullion side of business is the second line of business and that is also self sustainable.

    You KNOW (Along with everyone else) that I was referring to the Numismatic line of business. The Numismatic line of business would NOT BE SELF SUSTAINABLE (PROFITABLE) WITHOUT GOLD/SILVER…

  11. cagcrisp says

    In TOTAL for the past five fiscal years reported by the Mint Without Gold, Platinum & Silver the Mint would have had a Net Loss of $80.8 million on the Numismatic line of business…

  12. says

    Someone will need to explain to me how changes to precious metal prices (somehow due to evil Wall Street?) might cause the U.S. Mint to eliminate all of its numismatic products using said metals, which are among the U.S. Mint’s most profitable.

  13. says

    cagcrisp said on
    DECEMBER 21, 2016 AT 11:05 AM
    In TOTAL for the past five fiscal years reported by the Mint Without Gold, Platinum & Silver the Mint would have had a Net Loss of $80.8 million on the Numismatic line of business…

    Not sure how your results were obtained, but if I go here, I see numismatic product sales summaries for fiscal years, 2015, 2014, and 2013. If I take the “Net Income & Seigniorage” for each year and subtract out the parts attributable to gold, platinum and silver products, I get a grand total of plus $24.1 million for those three years.

  14. Old Big Bird says

    I watched the above video twice. There are two questions that came to mind.

    1. Is that room temperature and humidity controlled, since those items will have some minor effect on the weight of a bar.

    2. I noticed that the man handling the bars was using his bare hands. His own sweat could effect the weight base on one thousandths of a troy ounce.

    I have had customers who handled gold and platinum and these items effect their weight product in and what was used in manufacturing and the waste, so they could total back to the incoming weight

    So I found the video interesting.

  15. Ryan says

    I did a tour of the Denver mint and the tour guide said that since the only coin that costs more to make than it’s face value is the penny, the mint is able to make a “profit” on normal operations just by making circulating coinage before they even make any special coins.

  16. cagcrisp says

    @DR, Again …You know the answer to your post.

    1. I used five years and not three years that you do
    2. I DON’T use Seigniorage (which you do)
    3. There is NO Seigniorage on Gold, Platinum and Silver products

  17. So Krates says

    @ Old Big Bird – Interesting questions.

    I highly doubt they do any temp or humidity adjustments. They aren’t that precise with our coins, why would they be with bars?

    It would take a full drop of sweat to move that scale by 1/1000 of a troy oz. Even then we’re talking a buck thirteen. Any effects of fingertip residue would be below the detectability of that particular scale. He’s got no hairnet either, lol.

  18. says

    Ryan said on
    DECEMBER 21, 2016 AT 12:22 PM
    I did a tour of the Denver mint and the tour guide said that since the only coin that costs more to make than it’s face value is the penny, …

    That tour must have been many years ago. According to the penultimate paragraph here:

    FY 2015 unit costs decreased for all denominations compared to last year. By keeping indirect costs down in the face of increased demand, fixed costs were spread among more units. The unit cost for both pennies (1.4 cents) and nickels (7.4 cents) remained above face value for the tenth consecutive fiscal year.

  19. So Krates says

    They should use “negative” seniorage (the difference between market value and face value) on the numi side as losses to offset the seniorage profit on the circ. side.

  20. data dave says

    @cagcrisp – Not sure if I believe the $80 million loss. At what cost basis are they using for the sales of all the bags/rolls/boxes of dollars, quarters and halves? If they are using face value, then the seigniorage is going to the other pocket, if they are using manufacturing cost then then they make more money on the Numismatic line.

    For 5 years of dollar sales they have sold 120 million dollar coins, that only cost them $0.15 to make. That’s $100M that should be on the Numismatic side of the house, since they are not allowed to make these for circulation. If they are already counting these on the Numismatic side then things are really going to get ugly next year.

  21. data dave says

    Looking at the report, it looks like the distribution of the G&A expenses are somewhat suspect. Why are G&A costs for silver products 10x those of gold? Maybe they need to stop selling stuff that truly doesn’t pay for itself, like a normal business would.

  22. says

    data dave said on
    DECEMBER 21, 2016 AT 2:16 PM
    Looking at the report, it looks like the distribution of the G&A expenses are somewhat suspect. Why are G&A costs for silver products 10x those of gold?

    Perhaps because the number of silver products sold was roughly 10x that of gold/platinum?

  23. data dave says

    @D Rittenhouse – For 2016 I count 18 gold/platinum and 20 silver products. Am I missing something? Or does it cost more to manage a product that sells 500K than a product that sells 12K? If I ran a hardware store that way, I would have to add a set markup to every item regardless of the price and would be out of business in a week. You have costs that are associated with a product line which I assume are under the cost of goods line and then you have the salaries for the people maintaining the web site. Those costs can be distributed based on $sales, product line, unit sales, or any other method that management can dream up.

  24. Brad says

    Longtime readers here may remember that the original owner of this blog, Michael Zielinski, was once invited to tour the West Point Mint and signed his name on that wall someplace. The post he wrote about that (including his own photos) was a really good one.

  25. cagcrisp says

    ALL these numbers come from the Mint’s annual reports.

    You can see that Without Gold/Platinum/Silver the Losses continue to accelerate…

    FY2015 Total Net Income for ALL numismatic products is $40.8 million
    FY2015 Gold and Platinum Net Income is $43.3 million
    FY2015 Silver coin products Net Income is $27.0 million
    Without Gold/Platinum/Silver FY2015 would have Net Loss of $29.5 million

    FY2014 Total Net Income for ALL numismatic products is $22.7 million
    FY2014 Gold and Platinum Net Income is $39.5 million
    FY2014 Silver coin products Net Income is $8.6 million
    Without Gold/Platinum/Silver FY2014 would have Net Loss of $25.4 million

    FY2013 Total Net Income for ALL numismatic products is $66.5 million
    FY2013 Gold and Platinum Net Income is $29.6 million
    FY2013 Silver coin products Net Income is $41.3 million
    Without Gold/Platinum/Silver FY2013 would have Net Loss of $4.4 million

    FY2012 Total Net Income for ALL numismatic products is $51.0 million
    FY2012 Gold and Platinum Net Income is $19.4 million
    FY2012 Silver coin products Net Income is $49.2 million
    Without Gold/Platinum/Silver FY2012 would have Net Loss of $17.6 million

    FY2011 Total Net Income for ALL numismatic products is $103.4 million
    FY2011 Gold and Platinum Net Income is $54.1 million
    FY2011 Silver coin products Net Income is $53.2 million
    Without Gold/Platinum/Silver FY2011 would have Net Loss of $3.9 million

    FY2011-15 Total Net Income for ALL numismatic products is $284.4 million
    FY2011-15 Gold and Platinum Net Income is $185.9 million
    FY2011-15 Silver coin products Net Income is $179.3 million
    Without Gold/Platinum/Silver FY2011-15 would have Net Loss of $80.8 million

  26. cagcrisp says

    @data dave , “things are really going to get ugly next year”

    Keep in mind the Mint tacked on the Winged Head Liberty dime $30 x 124,950 = $3,748,500
    Keep in mind the Mint tacked on the Standing Liberty quarter $50 x 100,000 = $5,000,000
    Keep in mind the Mint tacked on the Winged Head Liberty dime $70 x 70,000 = $4,900,000

    That’s a potential of $13,648,500 tacked on three products that should be stand along profit centers.
    Due to Cleaver mintage/HHL manipulation this $13 million will be split between FY16 and FY17…

  27. cagcrisp says

    Above should read: Keep in mind the Mint tacked on the Walking Liberty half $70 x 70,000 = $4,900,000

  28. Ryan says

    Just received my 7 wonders of the world and my Vesuvius “coins” from APMEX and both are damaged. They both came loose of their holders which are broken and both coins are scratched from banging around during shipping. So disappointing.

  29. fmtransmitter says

    I think the Millenials version of journalism these days is to learn how to copy and paste, then change a few words, as a matter of fact, I know several people who have graduated college that way. That is our future leaders of this Nation…The designs on coins, say from the RCM, are simple drawings “others” have done, and them simply copied…Sad

  30. fmtransmitter says

    I subscribe to DOUG, NCIC, Numismatic Crime Information Center and get timely updates of crimes invloving coins and currency. Well a couple was just arrested after a TRIPLE homicide of 3 elderly people in thier 70s and 80s that were murdered over some watches and coins. It is a VERY MERRY CHRISTmas for me that these killers have been taken off the streets to do no more harm to good honest people trying to make a living.

  31. fmtransmitter says

    @Ryan, I just got a coin that was rattling around insdie the box, I could hear it, but I got lucky, no damage to the capsule or coin…Sorry about that, I think people involved in the shipping should take a class on how to properly ship coins since they are heavy, I lost 3 Canadian Maples that way when I forst started. I didn’t tape it up correctly and luckily the NGC one was actually in there. He sent me a picture and I could see fork lift tracks on the envelope. Secure that stuff up man, it will come lose in shipping, especially around the holidays, Write FRAGILE in RED INK all over the box too, that helps a bit, they seem to put those aside and handle them with a bit more care.

  32. PaulinBoston says

    Can someone enlighten me to why the Walking Liberty gold is significantly higher priced than the first spouse gold? They are both struck on the same planchet, I would imagine. Thanks.

  33. cagcrisp says

    PaulinBoston says
    DECEMBER 21, 2016 AT 6:21 PM

    “Can someone enlighten me to why the Walking Liberty gold is significantly higher priced than the first spouse gold? They are both struck on the same planchet, I would imagine. ”

    The Mint tacked on $70 to the cost…because they could…

  34. hawkster says

    For a facility that does not allow public tours, there sure are a lot of visitor signings on the wall at the W.P. Mint, as shown in the first photo.

  35. cagcrisp says

    Glass half full vs. Glass half empty…

    Currently the Winged Head Liberty dime is SO on website yet it was repriced today to $195.00

    Mint employee #1 : “Hey, we Made $44,270 by selling the dimes a week ago vs. selling them tomorrow”.
    Mint employee #2: “Hey, we Lost $132,810 by not selling the dimes for 15 weeks that they were offered for $215.00″…

  36. says

    PaulinBoston said on
    DECEMBER 21, 2016 AT 6:21 PM
    Can someone enlighten me to why the Walking Liberty gold is significantly higher priced than the first spouse gold? They are both struck on the same planchet, I would imagine. Thanks.Your imagination doesn’t match reality because the planchets actually do differ in size. The diameter of First Spouse gold coins is 26.50 mm and they are 1.88 mm thick. The corresponding dimensions for the Walking Liberty coin are 27.00 mm X 2.16 mm.

  37. says

    cagcrisp said on
    DECEMBER 21, 2016 AT 7:19 PM
    Currently the Winged Head Liberty dime is SO on website yet it was repriced today to $195.00
    Mint employee #1 : “Hey, we Made $44,270 by selling the dimes a week ago vs. selling them tomorrow”.
    Mint employee #2: “Hey, we Lost $132,810 by not selling the dimes for 15 weeks that they were offered for $215.00″…

    And the Mint employee who actually understands how thinks work says: “You’re both wrong., We borrowed the gold used to mint these coins from the Treasury. And, each week as we sold them, we repaid the Treasury the same amount of gold by purchasing bullion at current prices. We neither lost nor gained money due to fluctuations in gold prices.”

  38. Darek says

    My second Mercury Dime arrived today. The coin looks perfect, same as the first one which arrived on Monday.

  39. says

    According to the U.S. Mint FY 2015 Annual Report page here:

    Treasury allows the Mint to use some of its gold as working stock in the production of gold coins. This allows the Mint to avoid the market risk associated with buying gold in advance of the sales date of the gold coins. The Mint replenishes the Treasury gold working stock at or just prior to the time the coins are sold. Generally, the Mint does not deplete the working stock used in production. Instead, the Mint will purchase a like amount of gold on the open market to replace the working stock used.

  40. cal g. says

    I invest in gold and silver miners. Yes, hurting now, but, in the long run, hopefully, they will be fine. I just thought of something. I know the ZINC mining industry is doing a bit better, mainly because the President of the Philippines has closed many mines, due to environmental concerns.
    Curious, anybody know How many tons of Zinc the US Mint uses every year in it’s blank planchets? IF they stop making pennies, XXXXXX amount of Zinc would re=enter the market. Yes, all “future-tripping”, but, something to mull over, as, 1 day, the penny will go away.

  41. says

    According to the U.S. Mint’s page here a penny is 97.5% zinc and 2.5% copper and weighs 2.50 grams (I assume the percentages are relative to mass/weight). Then assume annual production is about 9 billion and the arithmetic is left as an exercise for the reader. 🙂

  42. says

    cal g., you should also be aware that it’s currently illegal to melt down or export pennies (see the U.S. Mint notice here. If that regulation were repealed, along with an abandonment of the penny, then the avalanche of zinc re-entering the market might be mighty. 🙂

  43. Jerry Diekmann says

    Thank you for the article, Diana. Since you said the West Point Mint began striking cents in 1973, is there any record of how many cents and other coins, if any, have been struck at the West Point mint? I know these coins are struck without a mint mark and so would not be able to be distinguished between those struck in Philadelphia.

    During the coin shortage of years from 1964 through 1957, were any records ever maintained that would indicate the number of 1964, 1965, 1966, and 1967 coins (cent through half dollar) that were struck at the various mints, including Philadelphia, Denver, and San Francisco, and possibly West Point, if it struck any coins during that period.

    I believe records were maintained, but they have never been published in the Red Book, and I was wondering if there were any other sources for this information. Thank you for any help you can provide. Merry Christmas to you and all the other collectors out there – we seem to be a vanishing breed.

  44. Barry says

    In regards to IGWT on coins , religion and being constitutional. I can back up my comments with articles just as some of you can to support your own beliefs, So what is the point in arguing / shouting down ( in writing ) someone about it when you have a set position ? btw, it’s obvious text can hinder the design of a coin but, the mint has no control over that so take action to change it / complain about it or don’t buy the product.

  45. Just Another Dave In Pa says

    There have been many challenges to the inclusion of In God we Trust. I think earlier this year there was one. The Supreme Court has ruled on the issue but still it doesn’t seem to reflect the Founders intent.

    I also never say the words Under God when reciting the Pledge of Allegiance. These words were never intended to be a part of it and they have no place in it.

    I also support Colin Kaepernick and his somewhat foolish jab at the National Anthem.

    Religions try to impose themselves on us in subtle and not so subtle ways. I think the Founders wanted to limit the impact of religion on society and instead they chose to focus on Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

    Once religion has embedded itself so deeply in society that every coin and dollar bill bears In God We Trust it seems to me that the separation of Church and State gets blurred to the point of meaninglessness.

    It’s not likely to change though because politicians feel they have to pander to religion to get elected.

    Trump has changed a lot of perceptions though. He gets inaugurated on my birthday… Jan 20th. I was born on the day that JFK was inaugurated in ’61 so I’ve always felt an affinity for JFK. I am not so happy about Trump but I’m elated that it’s not Clinton. Trump might be a great President. It isn’t a very high bar these days though. Still, I have high hopes.

    I have not been to the West Point Mint but I’ve been hiking at Breakneck Ridge and Storm King and Harriman State Park and that part of the Hudson Highlands is beautiful. Some nice little towns on both sides of the Hudson.

  46. one fine dime says

    “In 1980, the facility began to strike gold medallions”. I wonder if the medallions could possibly include the Olympic Gold Medals from the 1980 games in Lake Placid…only about a four hour drive due north of West Point. Would have made sense to have the Olympic medals made there.

    It got me curious so I looked up images of the medal’s obv / rev…very classy:

    http://www.insidethegames.biz/images/2014/04/res/Mark_Wells_Olympic_gold_medal_Heritage_Auctions.jpg

    http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/host.madison.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/3/21/3214ce06-ffd8-5830-b79f-7632c1469ab1/54e70f0ac82fb.image.jpg

  47. one fine dime says

    @Just Another Dave In Pa

    Well articulated stance on IGWT! I agree wholeheartedly, and in taking it a step further I truly feel it was zealots that took it too far and allowed that church-state line to be crossed. Religion’s co-option as a propaganda tool has a long and bloody history and it’s incorporation into our culture during the civil war is part of that. Then again in the cold war, IGWT was commissioned to formally replace our de facto motto since our nation’s inception: E Pluribus Unum — a truly inclusive motto that in my humble opinion is far more spiritual than IGWT any day.

    Out of many, one

  48. So Krates says

    @Just Another Dave In Pa – You got that right; the Hudson Highlands all around West Point are a national treasure and vastly underrated. Harriman S.P./Bear Mountain is packed with lakes, mountains and trails. You can even find the Appalachian Trail nearby as it crosses the mighty Hudson not far from W.P.

    I think Breakneck Ridge is THE quintessential day hike on the river and offers dramatic views the whole way up. The entire region is so scenic it inspired its own art movement, the uniquely American, Hudson River School. This could be a great subject for a coin series.

  49. cagcrisp says

    I’M BACK…

    American Eagle 2016 One Ounce Gold Uncirculated Coin

    65 in stock.

    Not a buyer. Just passing on information…

  50. cagcrisp says

    American Eagle 2016 One-Tenth Ounce Gold Proof Coin

    64 in stock.

    Not a buyer. Just passing on information…

  51. cagcrisp says

    Here’s some predictions for 2017…

    1. The Mint Raised the price on the 2016 proof ASE. The Mint will not lower the price on the 2017 proof ASE.
    2. The Mint will change the pricing matrix for Gold…Upwards
    3. People will still chase Low Mintage Wonders…in vain
    4. The Mint will continue to lose customers
    5. The Mint will hold another summit to address the loss of customers

  52. Mint News Blog says

    @Jerry Diekmann — I’ll add that to a couple other reader questions I’m working on, and will report back when I have some answers. Thanks for your question, and a Merry Christmas to you, too!

    Diana

  53. data dave says

    @Jerry – I have a little data on the 64-67 minting. For the cent:

    1964P – 2649M = 1519 (64Phil) +933 (65Phil) +197 (65SF)
    1964D – 3799M = 1865 (64Den) + 1934 (65Den)
    1965 – 1479M = 1 (65Phil) + 300 (66Phil) + 973 (66Den) + 222 (66SF)

    I have similar data for the dime through half for those years.

  54. earthling says

    cagcrisp

    “”People will still chase Low Mintage Wonders…in vain””

    I sure have to agree with that prediction. The Boys Town Commemorative coming at the 2nd half of 2017 will surely take us down to historic lows. It will fit in with the Boy Scout/Girl Scout issues in popularity, except it will be even less popular.

    One has to wonder when a US BU Gold Coin will drop to the 1,000 level? It will probably require a strong recession or even a depression in the economy but the steady decline in mintages is clearly pointing to a sub – 1,000 Coin, at some point. When it happens , no one will even care.

    Except the the few of us out here that truely are Coin people at heart. 💕

  55. Buzz Killington says

    I would love the see the First Spouse coins — all of the remaining ones — pulled at the end of this year.

    Enough already. Melt the gold, trash the boxes. It would be so much easier to pull a failed release off-sale if they didn’t tie up money into this exclusive packaging that can’t be re-used.

    If they want to get into the fancy box-making business, so be it, but sell those separately. The default purchase option should be capsule-only.

  56. says

    cagcrisp says
    DECEMBER 22, 2016 AT 7:57 AM – Here’s some predictions for 2017…

    Just can’t pass on an opportunity to throw down on some eduumakatid predictions for 2017 –

    6. SLQ & WLH –
    Will sell out after the New Year as folks go back to pick up additional units for a lack of any other worthwhile gold offerings in the 1st Quater.

    7. AtB ‘P’ Pucks –
    Whereas 2015 ‘P’ saw some mintages in and around 17,500, a couple of the ’17 P’s will end up in the 16,500 to 17,000 range, lowering the average low water mark.

    8. Liberty High Relief –
    Initial opening weekend sales will be respectable and on par with the RP Buff, then peter off severly ending with sales in the 27,000 to 29,000 range for the $1,590+ coin.

    9. Boy Town $5 Proof – mintage 7,500 to 8,500

    10. Boys Town $5 UNC – sales of 1,800 for most of the year with an end-of-year run up to 3,500 to 3,700

    11. Lions Club $1 Proof –
    Surprise of the year, the Reverse will comprise various layers of laser frosting which will make the lion devices pop and lead to strong sales of 75,000+

    12. APE –
    Disappointment of the year, mintage ~7,000

    13. Pallidium Proof –
    We might see one this year 😃

  57. KEITHSTER says

    Mint site says those unc.AGE’s are sold out were not back for long? Someone must have needed them but fits the two countdown theory ? Just glad they are gone! Hey leave the motto alone even Jesus said Trust in GOD so who are we to say? Good Luck And GOD Bless All”>

  58. PaulinBoston says

    D Rittenhouse says
    DECEMBER 21, 2016 AT 7:32 PM

    PaulinBoston said on
    DECEMBER 21, 2016 AT 6:21 PM
    Can someone enlighten me to why the Walking Liberty gold is significantly higher priced than the first spouse gold? They are both struck on the same planchet, I would imagine. Thanks.Your imagination doesn’t match reality because the planchets actually do differ in size. The diameter of First Spouse gold coins is 26.50 mm and they are 1.88 mm thick. The corresponding dimensions for the Walking Liberty coin are 27.00 mm X 2.16 mm.

    Thanks for the info. But aren’t they both one half ounce of gold? Should cost the same.

  59. So Krates says

    MNB says, “Around the 50-second mark, a Mint employee weighs a gold bar that comes in at 400.096 troy ounces. At a price of $1,125 per ounce, that bar’s value is $451,080.”

    That must be one of them Whitman calculators on which you do your multiplying 😉 Should be $450,180

  60. Erik H says

    PaulinBoston & Rittenhouse, I think someone pointed out on this blog a while back that the planchets are the same but because of the design / metal flow etc. the “actual” coin varied in size after being pressed.

    Basically as stated earlier, they charged more $$ because they could. They also lost at least two direct sales from me because of the extra padded margin. I may pick up a WLH if the price gets closer to spot but I can live without it.

  61. So Krates says

    “Hey leave the motto alone even Jesus said Trust in GOD so who are we to say? Good Luck And GOD Bless All”

    Not to single out this poster but this comment is an example of the problem. Most believers are not content to believe and observe privately. Most want rub it in and say God Bless you. They aren’t satisfied with God at home and church. They want it on the money, and in the pledge, and in the school, and at the courthouse. They want to pray at the school football games and claim there’s a War on Christmas because some people say Happy Holidays.

    That’s why religious intrusions into civic matters need to be pointed out and confronted. If these bronze age beliefs were really only private and personal it wouldn’t matter as much. But that’s rarely the case, it’s never enough for the faithful to just keep it to themselves. They usually want everyone to believe as they do. Up until only a few hundred years ago, these same folks would try to convince you at the end of a sword. The tactics have changed, but not the sentiment.

  62. one fine dime says

    @cagcrisp – I like the predictions!
    can you explain your thinking a little on “3. People will still chase Low Mintage Wonders…in vain”? I’m not following what you mean by “chase”. The mintages are reported weekly, everyone has the info available to wait and see if they want to purchase (if their goal is just to secure a new low mintage coin). Again, it has taken 20 years to see this floor break on a low mintage key for unc commem half eagles. If you buy the coin at the beginning of the release purely speculating that it will be a new low, that is a bit silly because you have nothing to base that speculation on. If you follow the sales numbers throughout the year, then you can buy it or not towards the end of the year based on how things are looking mintage-wise.

    @KCSO – I like these as well!
    For this one: “10. Boys Town $5 UNC – sales of 1,800 for most of the year with an end-of-year run up to 3,500 to 3,700”. I bet it will be higher (and therefore not become the new low mintage series key) but is going to depend on several factors:
    1) price of gold during sales period
    2) how many other desirable precious metal products (2017: no gold WLH, SLQ, or merc; no first spouse; no other gold commem issue)
    3) some people may buy the Boys Town $5 unc simply because the 2016 NPS $5 unc just became the new low mintage key in the series, and they missed out.

    Palladium in 2017 would be really cool. I’d like to see both proof and unc (unlike the Liberty silver medal which they released only in proof…which seems odd and unfortunate – maybe it’s just me as I like the unc’s).

  63. So Krates says

    @ one fine dime – I think they might have been referring to the American Arts medallions which ran from 1980-84 and were the precursor to the AGE program.

    “Chasing” the low mintage is buying the current year because only because it is the low mintage wonder…until next year….and then the next year. If you do this every year you can spend a lot of money “chasing” after the elusive low mintage – especially when sales are dwindling each year and the program is ongoing.

  64. one fine dime says

    @So Krates
    That’s why religious intrusions into civic matters need to be pointed out and confronted. If these bronze age beliefs were really only private and personal it wouldn’t matter as much. But that’s rarely the case, it’s never enough for the faithful to just keep it to themselves. They usually want everyone to believe as they do. Up until only a few hundred years ago, these same folks would try to convince you at the end of a sword. The tactics have changed, but not the sentiment.

    Well said! Jesus was a good man, and there have been many, throughout human history, who have also said great things. But again, “God” is simply a concept. God is by definition super-natural. For those of us that put our faith in the natural (like myself) rather than the super-natural, “In God We Trust” is a backwards type of statement, and perpetuating this phrase/motto really isn’t helpful in modern society. What it does is instill a sentiment of “it is ok, it will all work out, it is in God’s hands”, etc. If we trust in OURSELVES and EACH OTHER, then we can actually improve the world. Going around telling everyone (which is what having THIS official motto on our money does), is saying that we really don’t control our destiny. We all need to face that facts that the world is what WE make it. E Pluribus Unum is far more profound (IMHO).

  65. Dustyroads says

    Well, I think I may have to decide to leave or stay. Sorry to see it come down to this. The attitudes here have become more twisted than I hoped they would. It’s not going to be easy because I love this blog, but the Atheist sentiments are growing rather large and my hope is that people have leverage, not a weight.

  66. one fine dime says

    @Dustyroads — I’m genuinely sorry if I’ve somehow offended you. But I honestly think we should all be able to critically consider and defend our beliefs, and if many of us here are suggesting that IGWT has no place on our money because our country was founded on separation of church/state, why is it easier for you to just walk away rather than defend your position? I think it is unfortunate you feel my point of view to be “twisted”, maybe you’d like to elaborate?

  67. earthling says

    Thank God we are mostly from a Christian background here. If the people from the mideast regions ever start tossing their ideas around – it could get very troubled very fast.

    Shalom.

  68. KEITHSTER says

    Sorry Dustyroads but my hope is that they do have a weight as in a large millstone. But won’t go in to that here to each their own as all will meet their maker and sooner than they think it is not up to us to sway the way.We are a great nation because of E. Pluribus Unun ya right but in English in God we trust for others trust in what you will And Good Luck With That “>”>”>

  69. cagcrisp says

    @PaulinBoston, That’s just not the way the Mint chose to do them. The Mint tacked on $30 for the dime, $50 for the quarter and $70 for the half. All thee will Eventually sell out so from the Mints point of view it was a complete success…

  70. Dustyroads says

    one fine dime says,

    ” I think it is unfortunate you feel my point of view to be “twisted”, maybe you’d like to elaborate?”

    Twisted in that this is a coin blog, but if you want to continue that the anti-religious sentiments are appropriate, then all I have to add is that our laws will ALWAYS be gray and never black and white. And for those who trust in laws alone, you will be disappointed.
    The fact of the matter is, we have some power over how future generations live, but ultimately they will choose what’s best, and they will be able to commemorate their choices in some way. To this day, many have chosen to do it in a way that appears to be solid and persevering. Others choose to fight establishment. That’s where we are today.

  71. says

    Folks can view the U.S. Mint’s list of “Last Chance” products here.

    To summarize:

    12/29 at Noon ET:
    Mark Twain Commems — 16CH – 16CL
    Nat. Park Service Commems — 16CA – 16CG

    12/31 at Midnight ET:
    2015 Proof Set – P17
    2015 Unc Set – U15
    2015 Silver Proof Set – SW2
    2015 ATB Proof Set – Q5G
    2015 ATB Silver Proof Set – Q5H

  72. fmtransmitter says

    Dustyroads says
    DECEMBER 22, 2016 AT 3:23 PM

    Well, I think I may have to decide to leave or stay. Sorry to see it come down to this. The attitudes here have become more twisted than I hoped they would. It’s not going to be easy because I love this blog, but the Atheist sentiments are growing rather large and my hope is that people have leverage, not a weight.

    Don’t you dare leave, don’t make quote stuff that says you need you stand up and be proud of what you belive. Too many have been salughtered in His name. Be loud and proud and never waiver…

  73. fmtransmitter says

    KEITHSTER says
    DECEMBER 22, 2016 AT 3:51 PM

    Sorry Dustyroads but my hope is that they do have a weight as in a large millstone. But won’t go in to that here to each their own as all will meet their maker and sooner than they think it is not up to us to sway the way.We are a great nation because of E. Pluribus Unun ya right but in English in God we trust for others trust in what you will And Good Luck With That “>”>”>
    Merry Christmas to you and your KEITHSTER>>>

  74. fmtransmitter says

    Dorothy showed with her red slippers and svwarski crystals in them. What a large plachet they used. Under 5X and 10X loupe, for the life of me, I could not find a flaw. From the COA, which was done in 2 grams of silver BTW, it apperas I may have just over 200 out of 5k. Enough to keep that dye stamping hard, clear, and even. I twisted and twisted and twisted like the Scarecrow dancing, both sides, but mainly Queen side, as it is Proof, and feel very confident in a 70 grade. As always, could be graded on a Monday morning after New Years and by tired eyes, as the modern graders are the youngsters and either pick 69 or 70, but if you don’ think they know it is part of the same batch coming down the line, and don’t know 4 submissions, to 1000 submissions, OZ wants to have a talk with you..

  75. fmtransmitter says

    @So Krates: Anyone I know that is into that for real has never pushed it, you can’t. We all know you have to find “it ” on your own want “it” on your own. All I ever have done was tell my personal story and what happened to me. Even stopped when I could see attention leaving. That is all I will ever do, but I will not be silent, I will be willing to share to anyone who either asks or shows interest, that is it.

  76. Buzz Killington says

    @Dusty —

    I disagree with your intolerance of atheism, but I agree with your pessimism about the price of gold. A year hence, it will be under $1,000/oz.

  77. hawkster says

    Even Father Flanagan’s heavenly intervention will not nearly be enough to save the Boy’s Town 2017 commemorative from an almost certain failed Mint offering. And the 2017 Lion’s Club commemorative is also not going to generate much interest. If you are chasing low mintage coins these are for you.

  78. Larry says

    I figured I spent about $1000.00 this year at the mint. Probably about average for me. Just curious if anyone else wants to give a figure. Might be interesting.

  79. sharks2th says

    The Lion’s Club dollars will have introductory prices of $47.95 for the proof and $46.95 for the unc. They will be the usual $5 more after the introductory period. This will be published in federal register tomorrow.

  80. Mattarch says

    I ordered only $253.65 according to the Mint’s web site order history. Will purchase a Walking Liberty next year as the prices come down closer to spot.

  81. cagcrisp says

    @sharks2th, Thanks for the Information!

    That’s an Increase of $2 for each coin.
    Let the Mint pricing Increases continue.
    Losing customers and Raising prices.
    Following the lead of other world mints.
    Lower and Lower Lows on mintage.
    And Higher and Higher premiums.
    Customers better wake up.

    Let’s have another summit…

  82. Mike in NY says

    @Larry I spent $7800 at the US Mint this year. Based on the 2017 mint schedule, I expect to spend less than half that next year. Not much that I like/want.

  83. says

    Dusty…I agree you should stay involved here.

    I do disagree that gold will under $1000 in Q2 next year, nor as some think that silver, will be $12

    After all, I saw a commercial on TV with Richard Petty saying gold was going to $5000…well, I thought that was funny.

    Hang in there Dusty, as I have been along with you on this blog for many years.

  84. Tinto says

    I spent about a grand this year but only because I really liked Mark Twain and NPS and the designs (gold) weren’t that bad, the TR puck and I wanted to complete my Prez C&C set. Otherwise I would have just bought the NA $1 C&C set (5 ea) and be done with it. 2017’s gonna be just the NA $1 C&C set unless the Mint comes out with an RP or EU coin/set (aside from the NA $1)

  85. earthling says

    IMHO those that say they are Atheist are just trying to put sticks in everyones eyes. I say , OK, so what else is new wit you? Nothing worth getting upset over.

    When I met Heather, my young Druggie that just went to Jail about 6 weeks ago, she was being kicked out onto the streets. I really felt sorry for her and soon we moved into an Apartment together. At first Heather would tell me she was the Devil or that she was a Devil Worshipper. I thought to myself , alright that’s cool, what else you got? She seemed to just be trying to shock me in some way but I don’t shock easily. Soon enough, she changed her tune and started saying she was God. Yawn. OK cool, I thought, seeing right through her. Anyway, I soon learned that Heather had lived a less than ideal life. But way down inside I knew she was really OK just as most people are. I went through hell with Heather in 6 years. She is finally out of my life but at least she is safe in Jail. The Dealers can’t touch her. The cold Michigan Winter can’t freeze her. But mostly she can no longer destroy my life. I miss her and at the same time I’m overjoyed that finally I’m rid of her.

    So what’s the point of my story. Hmmmmmm….. maybe that we should’t be upset when someone voices their nasty little opinions. Maybe we should allow them to get it out and maybe move on down the road. At some point maybe their beliefs will change to something a little better. We’re all on this big ship together and like it or not we’re all heading in the same general direction.

    Stick around everyone. If nothing else maybe we all learn to allow others to voice an opinion. Maybe at some point we become better for having done that.

    Man I’m really missing Heather right now. She had a bad Drug problem. Hopefully by the time she gets free she will have found the help she needs. And hopefully I can find the help I need to deal with a crazy wacko Brother. One down, one to go.

  86. Just Another Dave In Pa says

    I spent way too much this year on coins. ATB bullion and P pucks, NPS sets and the 100 year tribute coins, mint sets, rolls and flows of angel hair and that’s just US coins.

    I’m not much into numbers as numbers add up to nothin’. My interest in coins is a lot more intangible. Art, beauty, the design and pm content all weigh heavily in my mind on what to buy. These are mostly subjective aspects but I’m pretty sure we all go through these kinds of deliberations. The buy what you like strategy is pretty much the only advice I’ve ever heeded when collecting anything.

    I like almost all the ATB designs and National Parks are awesome so I have quite a collection now including US stamp sets and National Park Passport stamps, the America the Beautiful passes and other memorabilia from National Parks.

    This year is Canada’s 150th anniversary and they’re giving away free National Park passes to commemorate the occasion. I plan on seeing Banff NP this year and others as well. If you don’t have one yet they’re still available here;

    http://www.commandesparcs-parksorders.ca/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?urlRequestType=Base&catalogId=53407&categoryId=216870&productId=524527&errorViewName=ProductDisplayErrorView&urlLangId=-1&langId=-1&top_category=216870&parent_category_rn=216870&storeId=22953

    I’ll only add that I wish our coinage and currency were as secular as that of Canada and most other countries. The Loon, the beaver, the caribou, the maple leaf. These are all beautiful designs for coins. The ATB quarters are a step in the right direction and the Native American designs are usually nice. I’d like to see an inscription on them like the Lenape saying for We Are All Related.

  87. So Krates says

    OT – Not even sworn in yet and Copper Face wants to expand our nuclear capability. Terrestrial annihilation is not sufficient. Perhaps the Irish can lend us more money so we can make the sand glow on the Moon and Mars. Rough seas ahead.

  88. cagcrisp says

    Here are the predictions that I have currently. IF you want to make a prediction, make it easy to discern from other commentary…

    Predictions…
    • cagcrisp says
    December 22, 2016 at 7:57 am
    Here’s some predictions for 2017…
    1. The Mint Raised the price on the 2016 proof ASE. The Mint will not lower the price on the 2017 proof ASE.
    2. The Mint will change the pricing matrix for Gold…Upwards
    3. People will still chase Low Mintage Wonders…in vain
    4. The Mint will continue to lose customers
    5. The Mint will hold another summit to address the loss of customers

    • KCSO says
    December 22, 2016 at 11:42 am
    cagcrisp says
    DECEMBER 22, 2016 AT 7:57 AM – Here’s some predictions for 2017…
    Just can’t pass on an opportunity to throw down on some eduumakatid predictions for 2017 –
    6. SLQ & WLH –
    Will sell out after the New Year as folks go back to pick up additional units for a lack of any other worthwhile gold offerings in the 1st Quater.
    7. AtB ‘P’ Pucks –
    Whereas 2015 ‘P’ saw some mintages in and around 17,500, a couple of the ’17 P’s will end up in the 16,500 to 17,000 range, lowering the average low water mark.
    8. Liberty High Relief –
    Initial opening weekend sales will be respectable and on par with the RP Buff, then peter off severly ending with sales in the 27,000 to 29,000 range for the $1,590+ coin.
    9. Boy Town $5 Proof – mintage 7,500 to 8,500
    10. Boys Town $5 UNC – sales of 1,800 for most of the year with an end-of-year run up to 3,500 to 3,700
    11. Lions Club $1 Proof –
    Surprise of the year, the Reverse will comprise various layers of laser frosting which will make the lion devices pop and lead to strong sales of 75,000+
    12. APE –
    Disappointment of the year, mintage ~7,000
    13. Pallidium Proof –
    We might see one this year 😃

    • Dustyroads says
    December 22, 2016 at 6:42 pm
    My 2017 prediction is that gold will break below $1,000.00 by the end of Q2.

    • Buzz Killington says
    December 22, 2016 at 7:26 pm
    I agree with your pessimism about the price of gold. A year hence, it will be under $1,000/oz.

    • Steve says
    December 22, 2016 at 10:54 pm
    I do disagree that gold will under $1000 in Q2 next year, nor as some think that silver, will be $12

  89. says

    Cag – Oops, you missed one,

    SoKraut just predicted ‘terrestrial annihilation’ – guess that would fall within CY’17(?)

    Here’s a prediction, give a year or two and he’ll be pinning the outcome of that lame duck Iranian Nuclear deal on ole Copperface.

    LMAO, you just can’t make this stuff up.

  90. The Real "Cool" Brad says

    14. Coin production will lower by end of year as metal will be needed for the war effort (China)

  91. says

    According to a CoinWorld article here, the U.S. Mint seems very unexcited about an upcoming Jan 6 Netflix movie titled Coin Heist. A Mint spokesman said:

    1) The Mint did not cooperate with the production of this film.
    2) No Mint production facilities were used.
    3) The Mint provided no footage of coin production.

  92. says

    2016 will go down as a very good year for Mint products for me, let’s see, almost a hundred pucks( full set sp70 Mercanti and full set ms69dmpl Mercanti), full set AGE proofs, APE proof and BU, sealed box of liberty medals, 2 sets centennial gold and a bunch of 2016 ASE (rolls, ms70, pr70, sp70). Product fatigue? Hardly.

    Happy Saturnalia

  93. cagcrisp says

    American Eagle 2016 One-Tenth Ounce Gold Proof Coin

    25 in stock.

    Not a buyer. Just passing on information…

  94. cagcrisp says

    For those looking a $1,000 Gold, it is entirely possible IF Trump gets all portions (proposes) of his corporate tax reform. Currently spot Gold would only have to drop 12% to reach $1,000 and IF he gets his 20% tax on imports, pundits suggest the USD would strengthen by at Least 10%.

    1. I DO think the USD will continue to strengthen. Not to the extent we will get $1,000 Gold
    2. I DON’T think Trump will get his 20% import tax
    3. IF he does, then Yep, we could see $1,000 Gold

  95. So Krates says

    Keep Calm and Squeak On says, “SoKraut just predicted ‘terrestrial annihilation’ – guess that would fall within CY’17(?)

    LMAO, you just can’t make this stuff up”

    What’s so funny? Your own joke? A renewal of an arms race? An agreement instead of an attack? I’m unclear as to why your ass fell off from laughing so hard?

    I was commenting on capacity for destruction. The prediction I made was for rough seas ahead. Anyone with their eyes to the sky can see the storm clouds gathering.

  96. Just Another Dave In Pa says

    I predict that most predictions will fall flat.

    Markets aren’t known for reacting in a way that follows a linear logic and anyone claiming any insight into the future needs a reality check.

    Like most charlatans, the key to deception is to keep it open-ended.

    Time (The Revelator) is a beautiful song by Gillian Welch and David Rawlings, just because …. relax and let it unfold.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdYG-Nh_AxU

  97. So Krates says

    @ DR – IMO Your “O” is far from “H”, but I take your point. It’s not the mockery I mind, just couldn’t find much humor there. I often LOL (literally) after reading you ridicule our favorite posters, but unlike this case, that derision is laced with wit. I enjoy reading your comments of all types/topics and am pleased to see you’ve been apparently let out of detention.

  98. Louis Golino, Author says

    I’m not big on predictions, but I do predict the Lions Club coin will be more popular than most recent issues because the reverse is nicely done, and most people like coins with animals on them.

    I also predict opinions on this blog will continue to be sharply divided in 2017 about everything from gold to Trump and that over the course of the year we will be reminded of the folly of chasing low mintage coins by several people and that there will be sharp criticism of the USM here. Can’t go wrong with those!

  99. Just Another Dave In Pa says

    I find it hard to separate the US Mint — a part of the Treasury Dept — from politics. If that isn’t a political institution then what is?

    The US Mint introduces religion by putting In God We Trust on every coin so again I fail to see why that makes it a taboo subject.

    Jefferson included Hindoos and infidels of every denomination in his comments on the protections afforded by the 1rst amendment and it’s pretty clear that our country was meant to be secular in nature despite efforts to portray this as a Christian nation.

    Even Teddy Roosevelt considered the IGWT inscription to be sacrilege. It isn’t just an atheist objection to the phrase.

    IGWT goes against the grain of the Founders intentions and the very religious teachings it allegedly supports.

  100. Ryan says

    By 2020 Gold will be above current all time highs, that’s my prediction. Short term price action is really hard to nail down but if the all in sustaining costs are $800-$1300 depending on the mining company then we’re at the price of production right now. That means there’s no fear premium or safe haven premium being put on gold right now. IMO the ONLY way for not just the United States but the entire world to get out of the massive debt and unfunded liabilities problems they have is to either raise taxes, have massive inflation or a mixture of the two. In either scenario gold should do well and I’m betting that by 2020 or before they will have either run out of creative ways to keep the game of musical chairs going or we will finally see this fake 7+ year bull market end and collapse into a very large recession/depression. I might be crazy but this seems like history repeating with the 1920 recession followed by the 1929 depression and it will be 2008 recession followed by the 2017..2018..2019..2020???? Depression

  101. Ryan says

    I think this will all happen during Trumps first term and it will all be blamed on him and capitalism. We then will slip even further into socialism and the world will be a dark and terrible place for a very long time. Just a little ray of sunshine from me to you for the Christmas break lol!

  102. data dave says

    My Predictions for 2017 –
    1. People will continue with their posts unrelated to coins.
    2. Getting rid of the Presidential dollars and first spouse coins will be good for sales of other coins.
    3. Gold price will depend on US dollar. I think the dollar will gain strength next year so that means gold will drop. I think it will see a new 5 year low and then bounce around that level for a while.
    4. I will continue to broaden my horizons in the search for nice coins.

  103. Ryan says

    Sorry guys, I just put gold/coins/precious metals and investing all together in my mind. In the future I’ll try and separate the coins and precious metals from the investing.

  104. cagcrisp says

    Predictions…
    • cagcrisp says
    December 22, 2016 at 7:57 am
    Here’s some predictions for 2017…
    1. The Mint Raised the price on the 2016 proof ASE. The Mint will not lower the price on the 2017 proof ASE.
    2. The Mint will change the pricing matrix for Gold…Upwards
    3. People will still chase Low Mintage Wonders…in vain
    4. The Mint will continue to lose customers
    5. The Mint will hold another summit to address the loss of customers

    • KCSO says
    December 22, 2016 at 11:42 am
    cagcrisp says
    DECEMBER 22, 2016 AT 7:57 AM – Here’s some predictions for 2017…
    Just can’t pass on an opportunity to throw down on some eduumakatid predictions for 2017 –
    6. SLQ & WLH –
    Will sell out after the New Year as folks go back to pick up additional units for a lack of any other worthwhile gold offerings in the 1st Quater.
    7. AtB ‘P’ Pucks –
    Whereas 2015 ‘P’ saw some mintages in and around 17,500, a couple of the ’17 P’s will end up in the 16,500 to 17,000 range, lowering the average low water mark.
    8. Liberty High Relief –
    Initial opening weekend sales will be respectable and on par with the RP Buff, then peter off severly ending with sales in the 27,000 to 29,000 range for the $1,590+ coin.
    9. Boy Town $5 Proof – mintage 7,500 to 8,500
    10. Boys Town $5 UNC – sales of 1,800 for most of the year with an end-of-year run up to 3,500 to 3,700
    11. Lions Club $1 Proof –
    Surprise of the year, the Reverse will comprise various layers of laser frosting which will make the lion devices pop and lead to strong sales of 75,000+
    12. APE –
    Disappointment of the year, mintage ~7,000
    13. Pallidium Proof –
    We might see one this year 😃

    • Dustyroads says
    December 22, 2016 at 6:42 pm
    My 2017 prediction is that gold will break below $1,000.00 by the end of Q2.

    • Buzz Killington says
    December 22, 2016 at 7:26 pm
    I agree with your pessimism about the price of gold. A year hence, it will be under $1,000/oz.

    • Steve says
    December 22, 2016 at 10:54 pm
    I do disagree that gold will under $1000 in Q2 next year, nor as some think that silver, will be $12

    • The Real “Cool” Brad says
    December 23, 2016 at 9:40 am
    14. Coin production will lower by end of year as metal will be needed for the war effort (China)

    • cagcrisp says
    December 23, 2016 at 12:13 pm
    For those looking a $1,000 Gold, it is entirely possible IF Trump gets all portions (proposes) of his corporate tax reform. Currently spot Gold would only have to drop 12% to reach $1,000 and IF he gets his 20% tax on imports, pundits suggest the USD would strengthen by at Least 10%.
    1. I DO think the USD will continue to strengthen. Not to the extent we will get $1,000 Gold
    2. I DON’T think Trump will get his 20% import tax
    3. IF he does, then Yep, we could see $1,000 Gold

    • Louis Golino, Author says
    December 23, 2016 at 1:46 pm
    I’m not big on predictions, but I do predict the Lions Club coin will be more popular than most recent issues because the reverse is nicely done, and most people like coins with animals on them.
    I also predict opinions on this blog will continue to be sharply divided in 2017 about everything from gold to Trump and that over the course of the year we will be reminded of the folly of chasing low mintage coins by several people and that there will be sharp criticism of the USM here. Can’t go wrong with those!

    • data dave says
    December 23, 2016 at 2:46 pm
    My Predictions for 2017 –
    1. People will continue with their posts unrelated to coins.
    2. Getting rid of the Presidential dollars and first spouse coins will be good for sales of other coins.
    3. Gold price will depend on US dollar. I think the dollar will gain strength next year so that means gold will drop. I think it will see a new 5 year low and then bounce around that level for a while.
    4. I will continue to broaden my horizons in the search for nice coins.

  105. Dustyroads says

    earthling, You haven’t kept us up on the missing AGE lately. Could it have been possible for the OD specialist who was in your care at the time to slip one of the coins out of the box before you could send them back to the Mint? By the way you describe this woman, she sounds completely capable of theft.

  106. Dustyroads says

    I should also predict that DJ Trump will say mystifying things which will make the Chinese furious, and the first half of 2017 will be vastly different from the second.

  107. says

    I expect in 2025 (sounds like a Zager & Evans 60s song title) that there will be coins minted for circulation, from $1 up to $20. However, paper Federal Reserve notes will no longer be created by then, in order to “persuade” most people to have bank accounts which can be monitored.

  108. Louis Golino, Author says

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with discussing the use of the motto, IGWT, on our coins here, and it has been a topic in coin magazines, etc. going back 150 years. But when the discussion veers more specifically into religion and politics with no direct connection to coins, as sometimes happens, I don’t see the point of covering it here. And I think it alienates people.
    But keep in mind IGWT was not added because the Mint wanted it. It was done because the politicians wanted it, and because many people asked for it during the Civil War and wrote to the Treasury Sec asking him to put it on our coins. It would be interesting to know what % of people think it should still be there today.

  109. So Krates says

    “…will slip even further into socialism and the world will be a dark and terrible place…”

    Spoken like someone who hasn’t traveled much. Ever been to Japan? Sweden or Denmark? Not always all doom and gloom, they rank higher on many important measurements and are by all accounts good places to live.

  110. So Krates says

    Louis, I agree. An informal poll here on IGWT would be more informative than a compilation of predictions.

  111. gary says

    “In God WeTrust”, “E Pluribus Unum” and “Liberty” are important mottoes and cherished by many Americans. Instead of a reeded edge, I would like to see them all on the coin edge. This would make for new circulating coin designs ($1, $2, $5, $10 & $20) that could have only “United States of America” and the date on the face of the coins and allow artists’ greater creative freedom to develop highly distinguished & artistic designs.

    Merry Christmas & Happy New Year to ALL! 🙂

  112. says

    Louis Golino, Author said on
    DECEMBER 23, 2016 AT 3:58 PM
    … But keep in mind IGWT was not added because the Mint wanted it. It was done because the politicians wanted it, …

    The list of powers reserved to Congress, as enumerated by the U.S. Constitution, is remarkably short but one of them, according to Section 8, is the power “To coin Money.” Therefore, I believe the Founders intended for Congress (and not the States, People, Courts, President) to possess the power and the right to decide upon the insignia and mottoes which ought to appear on coins.

  113. Just Another Dave In Pa says

    I say just say NO to IGWT.

    It’s ironic that ike (above) says no to IGWT when it was Eisenhower that enshrined IGWT as the National Motto.

    I also wonder if the name D Rittenhouse is an intentional reference to David Rittenhouse, the first director of the US Mint in Philly. He’s probably not well known outside of Philly but he’s an important figure in the city’s history. Rittenhouse Square is a popular neighborhood/park.

  114. cagcrisp says

    American Eagle 2016 One-Tenth Ounce Gold Proof Coin

    13 in stock.

    These Might not make it through the Night…

  115. gary says

    “In God We Trust” fits better on a coin rather than, say, “In Some Omnipotent, Celestial, Spiritual, Higher Power We Trust”.
    Get over it, it does not speak to any one religion or “religion” for that matter.
    For me, the motto is inspirational.
    We as a society need inspiration and it is needed more than ever RIGHT NOW!

    Again, a very Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukah and a healthy Happy New Year to all!

  116. DaveB says

    I have found that a large percentage of those that want IGWT on money, tend to treat money as their god. Happy Holidays to all!

  117. earthling says

    “it have been possible for the OD specialist who was in your care at the time to slip one of the coins out of the box before you could send them back to the Mint?”

    @Dusty

    No it couldn’t have been Heather, my personal little “Red Demon in residence”. I actually packed up my 3 Coins I returned that Day, at the local Library. Heather wasn’t there at the time. It could have been someone in the US Postal System. The thing that gets me is that everyone at the Mint Returns place were tag teaming me and giving me illogical BS instead of actually doing anything to help me. It’s like they knew I could do nothing if they didn’t do anything but spin me around in circles. If they had flat out stated” there were only 2 Coins in the box” I could have filed an Insurance Claim. Instead they acted like dumb ghetto thieves and just talked like stupid ghetto thieves. After having this go on for a month I finally was at wits end and just gave up in extreme frustration.

    The thing I’ve come to realize is that everyone in this country is looking to beat you at every turn. In that case I got beat out of around $1,500 for a 1 oz BU AGE. The IRS has failed to get me my recent $2500 Tax Return. The Car Dealer overcharged me for a $600 Extended Warranty they were supposed to have removed from the contract.

    I like the words of President Bush in reference to the Soviets, “Trust but Verify”. Everyone is a potential crook these days. You need to watch everyone and everything. OMG, a guy just got in the White House by promising to ” make America great again”. Clearly a lot of Americans want things to return to the way it used to be. It used to be that everyone wasn’t looking to beat you at every turn. It would be great if those days could return.

  118. DaveB says

    Earthling, the biggest problem with your logic is that the guy who wants to make America great again is the same guy who is “looking to beat you at every turn”. The fox is now in charge of the hen house. I hope he changes his ways, bu I’m not holding my breath.

    It still sucks that you lost the coin. Hope you get a break and it miraculously turns up.

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