Alice Paul and the Suffrage Movement $10 Gold Coin

Today October 11, 2012 at 12:00 Noon ET, the United States Mint will begin accepting orders for the 2012 Alice Paul Suffragist Gold Coins. This release is part of the First Spouse Gold Coin Program and will be the first release of the series for the year.

The release of the 2012 First Spouse Gold Coins comes after a lengthy delay. In April, the designs for this year’s four coins were announced, but the coins failed to be added to the product schedule. This lead some collectors to speculate whether the series would be canceled, although legally the series is required to continue. The US Mint finally provided an explanation in August, when they cited production problems as the reason for the delay. At that time, the Mint indicated that all four coins in proof and uncirculated versions would be struck and released before the end of the year.

Alice Paul was a leading strategist in the suffrage movement that ultimately gained women the right to vote with the adoption of the 19th amendment. She is featured on the First Spouse Gold Coin released to represent the Presidency of Chester A. Arthur. This was specifically required by the authorizing legislation, which notes that she was born during Arthur’s Presidential term.

The obverse design of the coin features a portrait of Alice Paul designed by Susan Gamble and sculpted by Phebe Hemphill. The name “Alice Paul” is inscribed above, with “Suffragist” at the base. (Typically for the series, the inscription at the base would indicate the order of the Presidency and the dates of the term.) The reverse design of the coin depicts a participant marching in the suffrage parade holding a flag and wearing a banner with the words “Votes for Women”. The reverse was designed and sculpted by Phebe Hemphill.

As with previous releases of the series, each coin carries a legal tender value of $10, and is struck in 1/2 oz. of .9999 fine gold.

The US Mint has established a maximum mintage of 13,000 coins across proof and uncirculated options. This represents a decline of 2,000 from the maximum mintage established for the 2011-dated releases of the series. None of the 2011 releases managed to sell more than 7,000 coins across both options.

Pricing is set at $1,054 for the proof version and $1,041 for the uncirculated version of the coin. These prices are based on an average gold price within the $1,750 to $1799.99 range. As with the US Mint’s other numismatic gold offerings, pricing may be adjusted weekly in response to changes in the market price of gold.

How will collectors respond to the Alice Paul Suffragist $10 Gold Coin offering? There are several factors both working for and against the offering.

The First Spouse Gold Coin Program moved back onto the radar for some collectors after the unexpected sell out of the uncirculated Lucy Hayes coin. The last reported sales were a mere 2,263 coins, setting a significant new low for the series. Soon after this sell out, sales for the uncirculated Lucretia Garfield coins surged and also sold out. In the past, unexpected sell outs and low mintages have somtimes served to reignite interest in a series.

The release of the Alice Paul coin has been delayed for about five months compared to last year’s schedule. Lengthy delays in release have tended to create a sense of urgency and pent up demand for some collectors.

Some factors which may weigh on sales begin with the overall trend for the series, which has been towards lower and lower sales. This may simply continue with the current year releases. Pricing for the offering will be at the high end of the spectrum for the series, due to the higher market price of gold. Gold is now up more than $200 per ounce from the lows of the summer months. Compared to 2007 when the series began, gold is up more than $1,100.

Finally, the use of a one-off concept may impact sales. As discussed previously, for all other Presidents who served without a spouse, a classic coin design featuring Liberty was used for the obverse. While it is important to recognize the suffrage movement, if another Liberty design was used (such as the Morgan Dollar obverse) this would have been one of the most exciting releases of the year.

Given these overlapping factors, it will be interesting to see the opening sales figures next week.

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Comments

  1. Samuel says

    the mint publishes “2012 US Mint Coin Production Figures”, why they do not publish figures for gold coins?

  2. Brad says

    There will be one less proof and two less uncirculateds reflected in the first week’s sales numbers, because I’m still out for now. These should have been offered for sale when the prices were $954 and $941. An extra $300 to keep my sets going is just too hard for me to swallow, for now anyway. I’d rather risk buying later than just handing over the extra money now. I keep all of mine in OGP anyway. The “First Strike” or “Early Release” nonsense means nothing to me.

  3. T1 browserman says

    off topic:

    MNB or anyone else familiar with the Federal Register……

    Under what Department does the change in silver prices get published ?

  4. TomP says

    On Aug. 9 at 8:06 P.M. under ‘2012 Proof Plat. Eagle’, I posted “Could the Alice Paul be released in the month or two before the election? Gee, that would (be) a coincidence”. Since the coin is being released today just two days less than four weeks before the election, do I still get my cigar?

  5. DCDave says

    I’m sorry, I didn’t hear what you said.
    The Alice Paul obverse and the suffragette reverse are part of the First Spouse Program?
    Bah ha ha ha ha, Bah ha ha. Wow, now that’s a good one.
    Maybe they can talke Lincoln off of the penny and put San Jose State University on the obverse since it was founded during the same time period!

  6. Ikaika says

    For those that are collecting the series and have purchased the Alice Paul coin please let us know the differences between this coin and the previous ones regarding the striking. That’s what all the holdup was about according to the mint. I collect, but will wait to see if gold prices drop to make a purchase. I do not think there will be a sellout anytime soon.

  7. Brad says

    I’m banking on there NOT being a sellout anytime soon as well. Had the law not required Alice Paul on the Arthur coin and it had depicted the Morgan Dollar obverse instead, it would have been a certain sellout of a mere 13,000 coins.

    No, I’m not buying today because I’m bummed about how the Mint handled the entire situation. Orders should have been taken on schedule, considering this is an item that is subject to weekly pricing fluctuations. I don’t think any of the loyal buyers of the FS series (which includes me) would have minded a bit to order their coins in June, and have them sit on backorder until October. At least the $100 per coin lower price would have been locked in. Shoot, I still have SF Silver Eagle sets ordered on July 5 that are still on backorder status. If it was ok for that one to sit on backorder for months, why not for the First Spouses too?

  8. ClevelandRocks says

    All of the FS coins list the # of the presidency it represents, including the Liberty sub-set (ie. Buchanan says “15th presidency”). I agree the Alice Paul makes no sense (guess we shouldn’t be surprised by what congress will do).

  9. Louis says

    I understand the frustration and agree it seems out of place, but I can’t see the Mint taking pre-orders months in advance and locking in prices. This would go against precedent and against their PM coin pricing system and could force them to sell coins for less than current market value, which they would not do. I also really don’t believe the Mint intentionally delayed these as many have suggested here because they knew gold would go higher. I am sure they would have sold them earlier if they could have.

  10. Brad says

    Louis,

    Yes, when I read somewhere that the problem in striking the Alice Paul coins was because the portrait was facing full-forward rather than a profile, I conceded that it was plausible. I’m not mad about that, and I don’t think the delay was intentional.

    However, I still advocate that orders could have been taken on schedule for these. I’m sure the gold blanks to make them were purchased many months ago at far lower gold prices. Had orders been taken at the usual time, it wouldn’t equate to the Mint selling the coins at below market value, because the sales were recorded at the time when those prices were valid. It’s very frustrating to know that the extra money being charged for these is pure profit for the Mint, and we don’t get a break at all. I’ve been a loyal buyer since the very beginning, and wish very much I had been given the chance to buy these before gold went up $200/oz.

    I’ve always bought in the first week or two, to make sure I always had fresh coins sent to me. In this case, I’ll gamble for a while and hope that at least some of the price increase in gold falls back. While I hate the thought of receiving a coin that has already been sent out at least once and deemed unacceptable for some reason or other, I’d rather chance that than spend $300 extra dollars today.

    So, if it turns out that I miss these entirely and my sets are over, does anybody here wanna buy a complete set of proofs and two complete sets of uncirculateds through Lucretia Garfield? 🙂

  11. Grandpa says

    How come none of you complainers will put your money where you mouth is?

    Instead of complaining that Mint delayed releasing these when gold was lower, you could have hedged your bet, and bought some gold then, to re-sell now, and apply the profit to the higher purchase price of the FS gold.

    Since you didn’t do that, you were willing to take a bet that the price of gold would be lower when it was eventually released.

    Complaining is ordinarily not very productive.

  12. Brad says

    You’re not the REAL “Grandpa”, (who had an actual account and hasn’t posted here for MONTHS) but I’ll answer you anyway.

    I have plenty of gold and silver I could sell to finance the purchase of the 2012 First Spouses. That’s not the issue. I have the funds available without selling anything. I just don’t want to pay the extra money being charged for them due to the delayed release. Besides, every time I sell something, I have to give Uncle Sam and the state their share. Doing things on the up and up takes one heck of a bite out of your profits!

  13. posterhunter says

    The mint could have opened up these coins to orders earlier in the year and only filled them once they fixed the striking issues. They have done this with other items they have sold that were not ready for shipping at the time but they still took early orders. Just from memory I think the 25th silver eagle set was done that way and also the gold eagle Ultra High Relief coin.

  14. Grandpa says

    I am impressed that you actually pay capital gains tax on collectibles. That is real economic patriotism, not to mention a good problem to have — look at this tax bill from all of my profits!

    I am sure you understand my point, though. If the Mint took orders significantly before delivery, and the price of gold fell, the orders would be canceled and re-ordered at the lower price. The Mint could only lose in this scenario, and have to honor prices for less than spot by delivery.

    If you *knew* that gold would go up before the FS were issued, you could take a position in gold to neutralize the increase for a later purchase. But since it is impossible to know, I don’t think its fair to complain that the price moves along with the spot price. You just as easily could have been paying less if gold had gone down during the delay.

    Personally, I don’t think gold can sustain its present price over the long term. But if you want to get in gold right now, I think FSs are among the best, since they have a *possible* low mintage upside, even though I am bearish on this series overall.

  15. Grandpa says

    Advance orders for series were taken when the price of PMs was much less volatile (UHR), or, like the 25th Anniv. ASE, were so much above the spot price that there was plenty of wiggle room for PM price gains.

    If you could cancel the order, it is basically a risk-free bet on PMs. Gold goes up, I have a low price locked in; gold goes down, I cancel my order. Thus, the Mint can only lose.

  16. says

    So, if it turns out that I miss these entirely and my sets are over, does anybody here wanna buy a complete set of proofs and two complete sets of uncirculateds through Lucretia Garfield?

    Sure thing! Just give me a few weeks to win the lottery first. 😉

  17. Ed says

    I don’t know about suffragists, but the mint sure has made me suffer through collecting the entire FS proof & unc series. After waiting this long for the first FS of 2012, I’m expecting perfect quality…especially after paying this much for them.

    Here’s a shout out for the new mint director who has quickly fixed the usually slow mint website during today’s first day of Alice Paul sales. The transaction was fast and smooth with no delays or service interruptions. Now let’s see what these things look like when they arrive (according to the confirmation) the week of October 16th.

  18. Louis says

    Brad, I understand what you are saying, and yes, it’s true with the UHR we were able to lock in the price when we ordered, but I just don’t see the Mint doing business this way now whether justified or not. And Grandpa makes some good pts. too.

    Also, I am really surprised you would be willing to give up the FS series because you had to pay a couple hundred more for the latest coins. It’s just my opinion, but to me that does not make sense. If you think about it, the current prices are pretty fair in the current gold market. They are basically charging about $100 above what a bullion 1/2 ounce eagle costs for a coin that will have a low mintage. that comes in a fancy box, should have a good premium eventually, etc. The controversial nature of this issue could end up depressing sales too.

    I am going to see what gold does in the coming days, and decide what to do on Tuesday.

  19. simon says

    There are way too too many complaints against the US Mint for the most trivial of reasons. If I recall correctly, there were a multitude of writers here purchasing “dragon” coins for huge premiums. For example the 1 Oz dragon sale price was $100 and the 5 Oz for $500. Compare that with the 1 Oz ASE and the 5 Oz ATB. Here’s another example : the RCM is selling a 4 coin gold set (1, 0.5, 0.25, 0.1 Oz) / price tag : $ 5500. My vote and money goes to the US Mint for the best products and best pricing. Liberty always !

  20. Louis says

    Ed, The new Mint Director is only a nominee at this point as far as I know. The Mint is still headed by the acting director, who was the #2 before. Congress is out of session for the election, and unless Obama makes her a recess nominee, she has to wait until Congress comes back.

    Wouldn’t it be nice to make 180K a year for a job (member of congress) in which you only work a couple days a week and take much of the year off, and have a staff and the Library of Congress to do most of your work? OK, back to coins!

  21. Louis says

    I agree with Simon………Buy American if you want to come out ahead some day……..Buy foreign for the art but don’t plan on getting your money back.

  22. Brad says

    Maybe you ARE the real “Grandpa” after all You sound a lot like him. Where have you been all this time? I thought you must have died or something! 🙂

    It is true that the coins would have cost less if gold had gone down during the delay. That would have been a nice bonus. However, I have always bought very early in the sales period for each release, so there have been times in the past that I’ve overpaid in the long run. Case in point: I bought my Lucy Hayes coins on 9/1/11 for $1,054 and $1,041, and I bought my Lucretia Garfields on 12/1/11 for $1,029 and $1,016. Both of those could have been bought months later for $954 and $941. However, I don’t complain about that because I bought them on the normal release schedule. That’s a gamble I was willing to take. What makes this one different is that I was NOT given the chance to buy the coins on the normal release schedule when the price was lower. Now all I can do is either pay the extra now or hope for a decrease later before a possible sellout. Like Louis, I’ll be paying close attention to the prices and may take action before any further increases come down the pike.

    So, I haven’t fully committed to quitting the series just yet. And, I may cave and just scale back quite a bit. I might stop the proof set and the extra unc set, and simply finish the other unc set. Shoot, if gold rockets too much higher it might come to that eventually anyway!

    If I do stop some sets and end up having a lot of extra First Spouses to sell, I’ll be paying a LOT of capital gains tax! At least the Mint won’t get any of it, though. They’re not funded by taxpayer dollars! 🙂

  23. DCDave says

    “Brad says:
    October 11, 2012 at 2:13 pm
    Louis,
    Yes, when I read somewhere that the problem in striking the Alice Paul coins was because the portrait was facing full-forward rather than a profile, I conceded that it was plausible. I’m not mad about that, and I don’t think the delay was intentional.”

    My favorite First Spouse coin is the Julia Tyler, and her portrait is facing full-foward, so what is the real excuse?

  24. Brad says

    Honestly, I couldn’t remember what all of the prior designs looked like from memory. Yes, it does seem Julia was looking pretty much straight at you, now that you mention it.

    Who knows? Maybe Alice Paul has a tougher nose to get to look right in gold than Julia did! 🙂

  25. Mint News Blog says

    The US Mint said: “When the first 2012 coin goes on sale, we discontinue the first 2011 coin, when the second 2012 coin goes on sale, we discontinue the second 2011 coin, and so on. So, unless we sell out of a particular option, we will always have at least four spouse coins on sale in rotation”

    So basically, they will remain on sale until the coins for Caroline Harrison and Frances Cleveland 2nd Term go on sale, unless the remaining inventory sell out before them.

  26. karl meyer says

    don’t buy the coins until after the first of the year unless you want a first release. buying after the end of the year will force the mint to a lower production run and they will not be able to mint to demand as they can till the end of the year

  27. posterhunter says

    Grandpa you were suppose to buy the gold for us and sell it back when we needed to buy, remember?

  28. KEITHSTER says

    The proof looks lovely the unc looks like where they had the trouble. looks like they had to call in an excorsist on that one or maybe she looks stoned. Hope she looks that bad in hand. Good luck to all ! !

  29. VA Bob says

    Despite the controversy over using Paul in the series, couldn’t they at least have given her a pleasing, slight smile on her face? Either her bloomers were made of burlap or she knows something about the future sales figures of her coin.

  30. joe says

    I don’t recall ever seeing a feminist smile (unless a guy was being tortured somewhere). Nothing strange about this coin in that respect…

  31. DCDave says

    Still don’t get the coin.
    PC coin with a girl AND a boy name on it “Alice” “Paul” ???

    Nothing on the coin indicates it has anything to do with First Spouse.
    I don’t even see a date or anything associated with President Arthur.

    I see no demand for this out-of-place coin. Unless sales end up under 2000 (they may), it will be an expensive loser coin that will track spot gold.

  32. posterhunter says

    If you look up the photo of Alice Paul that was used it looks like they gave her a nose job for this coin. Almost all of the coins they have done in the series up to now is a duplicate of some photo they found, and it is surprising how a coin like this can not be closer to the real photo they used.

  33. stephen m. says

    Hang in there Brad. Things always seem to work out and the money doesn’t really sound to me to be your issue. Don’t ever give up!

  34. Fosnock says

    Off topic question for the board…I have Perth Mint 1 ounce Koalas (bullion) but want to display them in the OGP capsules, does anyone know were you can get a display box or album that will hold them in OGP? . I’m trying to avoid using the Ring Type Air-Tites but will go that route if needed.

  35. Fosnock says

    @ Grandpa –

    I understand you sentiment but most of us are collectors not speculators. Its one thing to wait to buy a coin if you think the price will go down, its another when its not even offered for purchase as it increases the variables, do you buy bullion or speculate on another coin etc? I don’t collect gold coins but I have tried that philosophy with silver coins. The issue is that it only helps offset costs but not entirely so I have not actually sold any of the coins I purchased to offset costs with the exception of a 25th anniversary silver eagle set. but if the price of silver goes up it will make it worth my while as the cost offset would be greater.

    Not sure about your experience with the UHR but I waited for the price to come back down bought it but the price went down another $50 in the following weeks, but the mint would not allow me to cancel my order even though the coin did not ship for another 3 weeks

  36. William says

    Suppose the Mint releases three more spouse coins this year and then issues a new coin in January…wouldn’t this create an end date for the Ms Paul gold coin?

    I purchased one yesterday.

    Keep scratching your heads gentlemen and I’ll keep adding to my first spouse gold collection as they become available.

    He who hesitates is lost…

  37. Brad says

    William,

    Yes, technically you are correct on that. However, the normal release schedule had been early March, June, September and December. And, that only worked from 2008-2010. 2011 had the first two issues delayed, but got back on the normal schedule with the third release of Lucy Hayes. 2012 is a drastic exception. I guess it’s possible that the fourth coin could be released by early December to get back on track, but it could be later than that.

    And, read the wording of that U.S. Mint quote carefully: It said “we will always have AT LEAST four spouse coins for sale in rotation.” It didn’t say ONLY 4 coins. So, it’s still possible that the Alice Paul coin, if not sold out by then, will remain for sale even after the first 2013 coin is released. But, I doubt the first 2013 will show up before May anyway, and probably later. Despite the controversy, 13,000 coins might be sold by then, if for no other reason that simply “riding the coattails” of the Hayes and Garfields.

    And Stephen M, you’re right. It’s not the money. I just need to let go of my anger over the whole thing and keep going. It’s a fact that every First Spouse coin I’ve bought has appreciated very nicely in value, either due to the extreme low mintages or the increase in the gold spot price itself. I will probably regret letting Alice Paul sell out on me before I buy any, if that were to happen. But, common sense will probably take over and I’ll at least pick up one uncirculated coin to keep a set going. For right now though, I’m still “on strike.”

  38. stephen m. says

    You will shake it off, after all whom could you be “on strke” with, the mint doesn’t care if you or i never buy another coin from them. That leaves you on strike with yourself. It looks as if metals may fall in price anyway for us.

  39. Tom says

    As Michael has stated several times over, this coin is out of place within the series. When the original Presidential $1 Coin Act of 2005 was passed, which contained the details of the First Spouse program, like many I thought the Liberty designs of Jefferson, Jackson, Van Buren and Buchanan would make an interesting subset to collect. The specification for the the Alice Paul coin to represent Arthur seemed out of place then, and is still out of place now. I passed on the series as a whole and the subset of 4 Liberty coins.

    The premium for the bullion content is just too high. Mintages have dropped to fewer than 7,000 for the 2011 Johnson and Grant coins. As always, collect what interests you, and if you enjoy collecting this series, that is great. But, as far as an investment goes, there is such a small number of collectors of this series and the premium so high that I think the overall upside appreciation is quite limited. The traditional bullion gold eagles and buffaloes would be a far better investment play.

  40. DCDave says

    @Tom, I think over time the Paul Alice coin will be viewed more as a PC commemorative like the Boy Scout (Girl on the Boy Scout) silver comm. and aftermarket demand will be weak. The ’09 proof plat was PC and low mintage, and really never had a big premium since there are not many seeking an ugly PC coin IMHO. No one will be missing #21 from the First Spouse collection anyhow, since there is nothing on the Paul Alice coin to indicate it has anything to do with the Aurther presidency, not even a date.

    A gold suffragette commemorative is what it is, nothing more.

  41. old folkie says

    Does anyone really believe that interest will not go up when Eleanor Roosevelt, Jackie Kennedy, and even Betty Ford are released. My guess is the Jackie Kennedy coin alone will increase those aware at least 1000 percent. I’ll keep buying, I just wish I could have kept both an unc set and the proof set going.

  42. Gary says

    I havent bought any first spouse…but as old folkie states i will be buying a Jackie O…hopefully the coin will capture her beauty!! I have no plans in buying any others….Eventually if the series continues into the future, i would pick up a Hilary Clinton….not sure how that will play out? Maybe they will release future first spouses as they pass away? Or do they need to be dead to have a coin. If so..i may have to wait 30 years for a Hilary coin..Yikes i will be in my late 60’s..

  43. SilverFan says

    Yes, more people will want the Jackie Kennedy gold spouse when it is released than any of the prior issues. However, that does not mean that these people will want to buy the prior issues as well.

  44. Jake says

    Just got a US mint survey.

    They wanted to know if a special 100th Anniversary American Buffalo reverse proof coin was a good idea.

    Told them that a thought they were over doing the reverse proof coin. If they came out with a reverse proof of a different coin every year, it would not be special.

  45. phillip says

    @DCDave Well the whole series IS about the women, the spouses, not their husbands. So maybe a suffragist coin fits perfectly?

  46. don says

    Anyone got survey from Mint ????

    The American Buffalo 24K Gold Coin’s obverse and reverse designs feature images by noted American sculptor James Earle Fraser. The designs were originally featured on the popular “Indian Head,” or “Buffalo Nickel” which was introduced in 1913 to showcase the native beauty of the American West.

    2013 is the 100th Anniversary of the James Earle Fraser design on the American Buffalo 24K Gold Coin. In celebration, the United States Mint is considering introducing a two-coin standard proof and reverse proof set, which would not be minted to demand but would be minted in quantities sufficient so that most people who currently purchase American Buffalo coins would have the opportunity to buy the set. (A reverse proof coin consists of reversing the mirror-like background finish of a traditional proof coin, and applying it to the design elements of the coin to achieve a unique contrast.) In addition, the standard American Buffalo proof coin would be minted to demand.

    The price of the 100th Anniversary American Buffalo two-coin standard proof and reverse proof set will be approximately $4,000.

    The price of the standard American Buffalo proof coin will be approximately $2,000.

    Note: Pricing for gold coin products is tied to the market price for an ounce of gold and can vary dependent upon changes in the market value (based on the London Fix).

  47. Leo S. says

    Anyone

    Prediction: In less than ten years, a complete collection of FS (both proof and Unc.) plus an associated set of the Proof Presidents will be in high demand by wealthy people ( the 1%). Wealthy individuals like collectables as a hedge for their wealth and this particular one will catch their eye. One because it is gold, two because there will be only a maximum of 2200 sets (rare) possible (and maybe less) and three because wealthy people like to associated with power. What is more powerful that the Presidents and their Wives.

    I like the set and will keep buying.

  48. William says

    Since my great grandmother marched in a parade in Washington DC and New York to advocate for the vote, I will cherish this small coin in her name and pass it on with our history.

    Thank you great grandmother…

    Bill

  49. Tom says

    I am not sure which is funnier, anxiously awaiting a gold coin with Hilary Clinton on it, or Leo’s prediction for the FS series and caricature of the so-called 1%.

  50. Hidalgo says

    The 100th Anniversary American Buffalo two-coin standard proof and reverse proof set for approximately $4,000 sounds like a real collector’s item. I wonder how many folks will be able to afford it?

    I wish I were part of the 1% who could afford to spend $4,000 on two coins. I would imagine that overall sales/mintage will be quite low, which means that the coins will increase in value.

  51. VA Bob says

    don/Hildago – I might have to turn to a life of crime if they come out with the 100 anniversary of the Frazier Buffalo design. Of course the Mint could throw in a whammy and make them 1/4 oz. $5 pieces (about the size of a nickle). I’d hope they wouldn’t do that, but it wouldn’t surprise me, you know to maximize their profit. They have to have some of those fractional dies laying around, just need to change the date.

    If they are going to do it might as well throw in a silver example(s) too. You know these would sell like hotcakes.

  52. Samuel says

    “”would be minted in quantities sufficient so that most people who currently purchase American Buffalo coins would have the opportunity to buy the set””— whats the definition of “most people who currently purchase American Buffalo coins”? they check u r previous orders? or what?

  53. simon says

    I’m looking forward to the special “USMint-Bashing” commemorative (set) which they will release no doubt if / after they peruse this blog. Fire away dudes 😉 !

  54. merryxmasmrscrooge says

    Now I love all the coins the Mint produces, but Ms. Paul was a real looker on the pencil-drawn likeness, why did they make her look grumpy on the gold coin?

  55. Brad says

    My translation of the statement about the 100th Anniversary Buffalo Set is that there would be a maximum of 30,000 sets with an ordering limit of one per household. I figure the Mint will look at past sales trends for the proof (not the bullion) 1 oz. coin over the past few years to guage about how many collect the Buffalo. 2006 and 2007 sold a much higher quantity of proofs, but that was a combination of excitement over a new product and much lower gold prices then. It seems reasonable now that 30,000 sets could be sold, especially since they would contain the first “Reverse Proof” Gold Buffalo. Yeah, it’s a lot of money to pony up at once, but I figure enough interested people could do it for the Mint to sell 30,000 sets. Heck, some might just plan to resell and charge it on a credit card, not actually having the cash in the first place. They’re the ones who have to hope for a quick, profitable turnaround! 🙂

  56. VA Bob says

    GMS – Those FS Bronze medals usually come out in December… if the same holds true as previous years.

  57. vaughnster says

    Can we stop with the “only the 1% can afford this” please? That’s a bogus number attributed the the Occupy Wall Street nuts. You’ve got a year to start setting some money aside every month or figure out how to make a little extra. Perhaps sell off some duplicate coins and/or sets to purchase the 2013 American Buffalo set. I’m certainly not well-off, but I will do what I mentioned above so I can purchase at least one set. If it were easy it wouldn’t be nearly as satisfying. Just my two cents…….

  58. says

    I am still going back and forth as to whether I will continue this set. I ended up starting down a completely different avenue (silver Pandas) while I waited with bated breath for the FS series to ensue. Odd I know, getting excited about the FS series, LOL. At this juncture I really have to ruminate on what to do here. I can’t imagine I’m alone in feeling this way, so it makes me wonder if perhaps I shouldn’t view it as a high risk/high reward investment play for uber low mintage gold specie.

  59. Hidalgo says

    BT – you should collect the FS gold coins because you want them and like them. If the price of gold should fall to $1000 or lower, then at least you’ll have coins that you really like — regardless of the cost. On the other hand, if you are buying the coins for investment purposes, keep in mind that there are (in my opinion) other coins (made of other metals) that can be purchased at a much lower cost and can appreciate in value.

  60. Hidalgo says

    @ Brad – do you really think that the US Mint will be able sell 30,000 sets? Typically, when gold coin products are introduced, the full mintage is rarely met.

    JMHO

  61. GMS says

    VA Bob,
    They usually come out individually along with the gold versions. The set comes out in December. I have been collecting these and am aware of the release pattern. But thanks anyway.

  62. VA Bob says

    They probably didn’t want to release the medals if the coins weren’t ready. Also did I hear someone mention that the individual FS medals would not be offered anymore? I pick them up as a set anyway, as I believe there was a savings over the individual price, but I could see why one might want them separately.

  63. Leo S. says

    To those offendedby my 1% reference

    The 1% reference was not meant to offend your political sensitivities. What I was trying to get accross was that even though the FS set is expensive, I believe that in X number of years it will be more worthwhile to collect for investment purposes than an equivalent quantity of Buffalos, Eagles or assorted other Mint offerings that are produced in the hundreds of thousands or in the millions. If you can afford to set aside a set or two I believe the rewards will be great. Another set that is in the same realm is the Austrailian 1st series Lunar gold in both the 1 oz and 2 oz. This set has a relative low mintage (especially the 2 oz) and has not gone through the roof yet but seems to be popular in the far east and might be a good investment.

    However, it is your money, so buy what you want and collect what you want. It was just my two cents.

  64. Gary says

    @Tom
    what is the funniest…is door knobs thinking what they want to collect is the only thing to collect….When i started collecting coins, that was the first thing that came to my mind was i will only collect what Tom collects! Give me a break!!
    Last i knew, i was the CEO of my collection!! but i will have to check on that. Maybe Tom is???

    So, i will say it again! I want a Hilary Gold Spouse Coin!! Oh yeah!!!

  65. says

    The spouse coins are among my favorites in my collection. I hope to complete the series. At the beginning I ordered one proof and one uncirculated coin but had to drop the uncirculated coins (too expensive) except for SPECIAL ones! I did order the Alice Paul proof coin but I really think another Liberty coin would have been more appropriate for this series. I think the Alice Paul coins should “stand alone”. The SUFFRAGIST movement was most important to the women of our country .

  66. says

    Hidalgo,

    I initially started the series because I thought it would be a challenging set to collect, plus I love both gold and coins. Couldn’t really lose in my situation. Now that I have been pleasantly distracted by other series, I have to think long and hard about my views on the FS series. I guess what I’m saying is that I gave the Mint a very long rope with which to hang itself (again, my particular situation). IMHO they really succeeded…I can’t imagine a predictable series release going any worse than what they’ve done. There are no excuses.

    So I have to decide if I want to quit collecting Pandas and get back into FS, or vice versa. I can’t afford both. I loved the series when I was trying to buy at a reasonable pace. But if I were to buy now (assuming they release them all within a short timespan), it becomes a risk/reward evaluation. There’s a lot of coins I like, but at some point one has to ask if it makes financial sense to tie up that much cash in one place and in one chunk.

    A simple example is that yeah, I love Nissan Skylines and I could buy one, but would it be smart?

  67. GMS says

    VA,

    They are issued individually and in the Spouse coin and medal set with a proof Dollar. During the past six years the individual bronze coins and the set I refer to were offered as the Presidential Dollar became available. The set in December is a seperate offering but thanks for your best guess, it’s as good as anyones at this point

  68. Tom says

    @Gary

    No offense was intended. One collects that which one finds interesting, and everyone has varying interests.

    However, anxiously awaiting a Hillary Clinton gold coin, that is still pretty funny.

  69. Brad says

    The Chester Arthur and Alice Paul coin and medal set is slated to go on sale later this week, for the $9.95 price advertised earlier in the year in the 2012 pricing schedule. That’s a nice drop from the $14.95 charged for the 2011’s.

    And yeah, I think it’s possible for 30,000 sets of the 100th Anniversary Buffalo Gold Coins to sell, given the combination of collector and speculator purchases. It should be a good product, regardless if a 30,000 cap sells or not. Just the fact that there will BE a limit should serve to fuel sales more than an open-ended mintage would.

  70. VA Bob says

    GMS – Sure no problem. I completely forgot about those FS Medal/Prez dollar combo cards. You’re right, and if the Mint fails to release those, even late, that blows my theory out of the water. Unless someone in the know passes that info on, with only 2 1/2 months left in the year, I suppose we’ll see. I wouldn’t believe it possible to have the same “production” excuse for the gold versions as the bronze, which are larger. Anyway, hope you get what you need.

  71. vaughnster says

    ” Leo S. says:
    October 13, 2012 at 8:05 pm

    To those offendedby my 1% reference”–

    Leo– I wasn’t offended by the remark but I think it’s thrown around too much in far too many references that it doesn’t apply. Coin collecting can cost what you choose depending on what you collect and in what condition you collect. Sure, it can get expensive, especially when dealing with gold. It’s all about priorities (and a little money, too.)

  72. says

    “BT, what kind of panda do u collect?”

    Mostly silver, some gold. The cost is in the slab, for the most part. For instance, I dropped a mint on a 1995 Micro Date just because I wanted it in a SecurePlus holder. I absolutely love them.

  73. Hidalgo says

    Unless I am mistaken, there is no way that a Hillary or Bill (when Hillary becomes the next President after Obama) FS gold coin could be minted. Simple reason: they are both living. And no living person can be on an official coin (repeat, coin) from the US Mint.

  74. Ben says

    “The act, as written, explicitly states that the first spouse coins will be released at the same time as their respective $1 President coins. Because the act links a First Spouse’s eligibility for a coin to that of the Presidential spouse, it means that a living First Spouse may appear on a coin. Currently, one living First Lady, Nancy Reagan, is eligible.”

  75. Samuel says

    the SF sets ordered in the morning of 7/5 were received last week, sets ordered in the afternoon still backordered, 10/31 and with the cancel box. why?

  76. DCDave says

    HA! With the plummeting price of gold, only a fool would buy the Paul Alice Commemorative with only plunging aftermarket losses ahead. Terrrible idea for a commemorative and a true “sucker” coin. Anyone make big profits of the Susan B. Anthony?

    Off topic, 3 weeks until the release of the Alaska Denali 5 oz coin. Mint still says it will be offered at $204.95. Is this for real?

  77. Shutter says

    Eunice Shriver (Special Olympics commem) was the exception

    Not the only one. Joseph T. Robinson & Carter Glass appeared on coins while still alive. Some have also argued that 1992 Olympic dollar was based on Nolan Ryan.

    There is normally no legal impediment to putting living individuals on coins. The presidential dollar program is different. It requires a president to be deceased for 2 years before appearing on the coin. There is no such requirement for the FS program. That means that Nancy Reagan can appear on a coin in 2016, even if she’s still alive.

  78. Gary says

    The “fools” as you say that are buying gold are probably arent worried about a $17.00 drop….All DCDave and myself can do is dream we could be in the gold game! But i refuse to kick the ones that are buying gold because i am jealous i cant buy gold! I just put my big boy pants on and say I am jealous and wish i could be in the gold game!

    When small potatos play with big potatoes they get mashed!! So Dave just stay on the sidelines with the rest of us small potatoes! But dont hate on the big potatoes because they did it better!

  79. Louis says

    It is probably a good idea to wait and see if the drop is enough to lower prices on Wed. for the Paul coin, but it is far too soon to make predictions about aftermarket values, as several people have in this thread. Anyway, I personally prefer series with different designs to those with static ones except silver eagles and silver dollars.

  80. Phil says

    My “vote” on this coin is a big “thumbs down”. I’m boycotting it because Alice Paul should not be on a first spouse coin, and the mint missed a great opportunity to have the $1 gold Indian Princess design on a 1st spouse coin, which would have been very popular with collectors like myself. It would have been a great addition to the rest of the first spouse liberty series, of which I have both the proof and uncirculated versions.

  81. says

    Maybe I missed it, but in reading through these 100+ comments I didn’t see mention that the survey also asked about fractional proof and unc. buffalo issues, and also asked if there should be unlimited orders for a short window (like the Eagle set) rather than a fixed mintage.

    I like the short order window rather than keep them on sale forever, or a fixed mintage. I would have bought the whole spouse series if only I had been able to buy the first ones from the mint but the limited availability made me lose interest.

  82. Gary says

    @MarkinFlorida
    Are you the same Mark in Florida who is selling the 2012 NGC Retro Silver Eagle MS 69 for $79.00?
    C’mon man!! Is that the best you can do?

  83. Athalon says

    That should have been 2011 for the MOH.
    I had just purchesed the SBB set to night. Looks like it might be a winner in low production, but not best gold coin.

  84. Barry says

    I received my Alice Paul Unc. First Spouse
    Gold Coin yesterday Oct.19. Along with Lucretia Garfield Proof and A.T.B Hawaii
    Volcanoes 5 ounce Unc.Coin. All three in great condition. The cost was the most ever
    I placed on one order. I know there will probably be a price decrease ahead. I Think the First Spouse Series will be a major investment winner in the future. Alice Paul
    will certainly stand out in the Series. I gave it a big thumbs up. I’m wondering if any
    descendants of Chester Arthur were asked who
    they prefered on the coin? The sales report
    for Alice Paul show it’s in demand. I think a
    full face portrait like Alice Paul and Julia
    Tyler are the best way to enhance and revitalize the Series.

  85. S. Knight says

    This coin IGNORES the way the other coins in the series DATE themselves usually four ways.

    ONE the Number of the term;

    TWO the first date of the term;

    THREE the last date of the term if more than a year;

    FOUR the date the coin was supposedly made to be released.

    All this coin has on it is the NUMBER FOUR date and that’s six months late.

    HOW FUBAR they were not to put the MORGAN SILVER DOLLAR on the OBS.

  86. S. Knight says

    PS after the election gold will really start to climb to match the doubling of the currency since 2008 – and now a quadrupling taking off.

  87. S. Knight says

    This series is the least amount of coins made in gold for way over 100 years and pushing 200 years by the SNAFU mint.

    That makes them constantly in the LOWEST 70 coins number per coin especially in MS and about half the PF per coin.

    That down the road (say, 30 years) is a recipe for greatness like the first US Eagles ever made around the 1800s,

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