America’s Native American dollar reaches for the stars in 2019

Updated on 6/30/17 to add external links.

On June 21, 2017, a quorum of the Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee met at United States Mint headquarters on 9th Street in Washington, D.C. We had a full day of meetings that started at 8:00 a.m. and wrapped up at 4:45 p.m., with a break for lunch on premises.

Among our agenda items was reviewing and discussing designs for the upcoming 2019 and 2020 Native American dollars. This coinage series was launched in 2009 to memorialize American Indians and, in the words of its authorizing legislation, “the important contributions made by Indian tribes and individual Native Americans in the development [and history] of the United States.” Their obverse design keeps the portrait of Shoshone guide Sacagawea and her son, Pomp, used on the golden dollar from 2000 to 2008. The Native American dollar reverse designs change every year.

Since 2011, the coins in the series have been produced only for numismatic sales—none are issued for circulation. They can be purchased in annual Mint and Proof sets, and in rolls, bags, and boxes directly from the Mint, for a premium over face value.

A lot of serious thought goes into the design of these historic coins. Members of the U.S. Senate Committee on Indian Affairs, the Congressional Native American Caucus of the U.S. House of Representatives, and the National Congress of American Indians serve as stakeholders in deciding the annual themes and recommending general potential elements for each coin. Once the Mint’s artists have had a chance to draw design proposals, their work is reviewed by the U.S. Commission of Fine Arts and, in public session, the CCAC.

In our January 17, 2017, telephonic meeting, we discussed the general themes for the 2019 and 2020 dollars: American Indians in the Space Program, and Alaska’s groundbreaking anti-discrimination law of 1945.

For the 2019 coin, CCAC members agreed on the importance of the legend “American Indians in the Space Program” and the significant symbolism of eagle feathers (and eagles themselves) in Indian culture. Astronaut John Herrington (Chickasaw)—the first Native American in space—carried an eagle feather into orbit with the International Space Station in 2002. Dr. Herman Viola, our member specially qualified as an American historian, praised the portfolio of coinage designs. “This is all very exciting, especially to the Indian community. . . . It’s going to get a great deal of attention. It would be wonderful to have an eagle feather somehow represented,” he said, further pointing out that “Herrington’s eagle feather is at the Museum of the American Indian, on the second floor, if you want to take a look at it.”

My feeling is that the U.S. space program is so big and so dramatic by itself that not emphasizing the Native American theme on the coin would risk viewers not making the connection. Several of the designs were obviously space-themed, but without a strong visual link to American Indians.

The CCAC’s Preferred Design: Symbolic, Rather Than Literal

After much discussion, for the 2019 dollar we recommended design 8—which received 19 out of a possible 27 votes—but with a modification. (Our voting is an internal tool used to guide our final discussions, after which a motion is made, whereby we formally decide which designs we’ll recommend to the secretary of the Treasury, who has final decision-making authority.) Our recommendation is that design NA-2019-08 be used, with the legend CHARTING A PATH TO SPACE modified to something more specific to Native Americans, e.g., AMERICAN INDIANS IN SPACE or AMERICAN INDIANS IN THE SPACE PROGRAM. U.S. Mint sculptor-engraver Don Everhart, who attended the meeting in person, suggested that UNITED STATES OF AMERICA could be swapped to the left-hand perimeter, with the longer legend positioned in the lower-right.

Design number NA-2019-08 (hover to zoom).

The three feathers in reverse design 8 symbolize space-program achievements of the Indian nations of the Cherokee (and Mary Golda Ross); the Chickasaw (John Herrington); and the Osage and Comanche (Jerry Elliott).

Various CCAC member comments about design 8 include the following:

Heidi Wastweet: “I was drawn to design number 8. Although the feathers are really overwhelming the planets, I do think it’s more simplified and an interesting design.”

Erik Jansen: “Design number 8 caught my attention because it does carry the important theme of a Native American core contribution, strength, pillar, to the space program. Rather than publish a ‘picture on metal,’ as we are sometimes faced to challenge, I think we have very simple symbols here which may pass the intended message most clearly in a small coin. That is to say: challenge the observer, who takes a moment to try to understand this coin. Give them the sense of context to Native Americans symbolized by the feather with the contextual mission of space. I think it’s a startling contrast which adds to the reader’s attention-gathering of the message.”

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: “I was drawn to the symbolism of the feather and how effective it was. And for me, number 8 really conveyed that, just the eagle feathers and their connection to the cosmos there, with the planets.”

Jeanne Stevens-Sollman: “I thank Herman [Viola] for his astute description of the eagle feather. I think that we really need to pay attention to that.”

Robert Hoge: “My favorite designs are number 8, number 12, and 14. These all have a degree of simplicity and balance and good use of space and include and incorporate the feather.”

Thomas Uram: Agreed with the general consensus.

Mary Lannin: “My favorite design was number 8 for all of the reasons that we have discussed. I think that the three feathers representing the three tribes is very important.”

Dennis Tucker: “The space program itself is so dramatic, so big, and so interesting that that might be what people focus on if they’re not given some guidance with a legend or text. . . . For number 8, I don’t know if this is significant, but the feathers appear to be falling downward, rather than going up to heaven. I don’t know if that’s something that is important to this design. And again, this is a design that does not specifically mention Native Americans, although the symbolism is there with the feathers.”

Disagreement With Other Reviewers

The first preference of the Mint’s Senate liaisons, stakeholders in the Native American tribes, the family of Mary Golda Ross, and the Commission of Fine Arts was number 10 (showing Ross writing calculations, with an Atlas-Agena rocket launching into space, mathematical equations, an astronaut spacewalking, and a star cluster). However, we found this design to be too crowded, too finely detailed for the small planchet of the golden dollar (26.5 mm, about one inch, in diameter). A coin this size needs a bolder, simpler design, and that’s where symbolism carries a lot of weight, rather than trying to show “a picture on a coin” or crowd the art by telling an encyclopedic story. The CFA recommended number 10 with some elements removed for simplification.

Design number na-2019-10 (hover to zoom).

Still, in the CCAC’s opinion the design would have remained too packed. In our ranking, design number 10 received only 3 votes out of our potential 27, and our comments on it included the following:

Heidi Wastweet: “There’s a lot of momentum and preference for number 10. I think it has a lot of merit. And this would be a fantastic medal. But I’m not sure about a dollar coin. It’s just got a lot going on. And I agree with the [CFA] notes of taking away the tower and simplifying the clouds. I love the fact that the astronaut is upside-down. I don’t think taking away the stars is going to add any value. I think the stars are not making it more busy. I think the stars are nice. It’s the other elements that are making it busy. I agree with taking away the arrow. When you see this coin in hand, you’re really not going to be able to identify a lot of what’s going on here. And I would love to see a more simplified design.”

Erik Jansen: “We’re dealing with a very small planchet here, and shallow relief, at that. And so, I’m concerned that potentially we’re generating a mixed message here, against what the CFA may have recommended, because I personally think number 10, even simplified, will become a bit of a ‘mess by committee.’ And I really don’t want to be part of that. So I am then explicitly saying that is not among my recommendations.”

Jeanne Stevens-Sollman: “Number 10, for me, was too much information. It’s better if we’re doing a medal and have more space.”

Robert Hoge: “I’m not very pleased with number 10. This is a design which is just not suitable for a coin. It’s much too fine in detail, if you think of the size. Everything’s going to be lost in the little launching tower and the portrait of Ross. I like the astronaut gripping the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA’s baseline up there. I think the image of the Pleiades is not very good because it’s not what can be seen from Earth. It can be a space view, but that’s not explicable. I think it is just much too complicated.”

Next Steps: A Final Decision, Sculpting, Then Coining

Recommendations, including those of the CCAC, will be formally communicated to Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin, who has the decision on which design will be finalized and sculpted for the 2019 dollar coin. Before too long his decision will be made. A member of the Mint’s artist staff will engrave the design for hubs and dies, minting will begin in Philadelphia, Denver, and San Francisco, and then in 2019 we’ll be adding these important coins to our collections. In the meantime we can gaze to the stars and marvel at American Indian contributions to our nation’s exploration of space.

Gallery of U.S. Mint headquarters. (Photos by the author)

 

Print of a Tiffany mosaic on the second floor of Mint headquarters…

…and the explanation of the print (hover to zoom). The mosaic, “commissioned at a cost of $40,000 for the third Philadelphia Mint” in 1901, illustrates the weighing of coins. This and four related Tiffany mosaics are on display at the Philadelphia Mint.

Dennis Tucker serves the hobby community as publisher at Whitman Publishing, the nation’s largest publisher of numismatic references. He holds the position of numismatic specialist on the CCAC.   ❑



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Comments

  1. You Can't See Me says

    I see your point about the feathers appearing to fall. Floating feathers would be more symbolic. Either way I hope design 8 is chosen.

  2. Joe M. says

    Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune…
    Who decided this design was acceptable(NA-2019-08)? RRRRGGGGHHHH!! FAIL! FACEPALM!
    Certainly not Neil deGrasse Tyson 🙂

    na-2019-10…I like this!

  3. Dustyroads says

    In design NA 2019-08 I don’t like the way the feathers look like they have been arranged on a table.
    I would much rather have the planets arranged realistically in the upper portion of the disk, with the feathers slightly smaller elongated under them with a slight fade into the distance of space.
    NA 2019-10 is a good one. The astronaut is a nice addition. Well done.

  4. Xena says

    sharks2th, Dusty – thanks. Always worth remembering how blessed we are. I have food, shelter, good job, good family. I’ll stretch a little more and give a donation to folks that help those that don’t.

  5. Ben There says

    More PC rubbish. Now Indians made NASA? Revisionist history is really getting out of hand.

  6. earthling says

    I don’t really know why but it just seems like everything coming out of the US Mint design studios really rubs me wrong the last bunch of years. It’s no big deal, if I like it I buy it, if not I am saving my money. I stop off at Jets and get me a great Pizza. When I do I think ” Hey US Mint, thanks for putting Pizza money in my pocket “! 😆

    Keep it up. I’m well on my way to driving this Coin buying obsession into complete extinction. 👣

  7. Dennis Tucker says

    @Ben There and Sturgeon: When President Bush signed the Native American Dollar Act into law in 2007, the idea was to recognize American Indians and commemorate their contributions to the United States.

    The law specifically states: “This legislation hereby declares that Native Americans didn’t invent NASA.” That section of the legislation was included just for you!

  8. Sith says

    IMHO The native American designs (and series) are awesome. Too bad a lot of serious thought does not go into the design of other coins. For those who feel left out because the Native American accomplishments s are highlighted, that is the purpose of the series. IE this is an annual series that honors the contributions of American Indians or Indian tribes. Its pretty sad that a coin series that was made specifically to highlight contributions of American Indians or Indian tribes, is bad mouthed for doing it stated goal.

    This time the series is being used to complementing another set of coins being issued to commemorate 50 years since the Apollo 11 first moon landing. I define complement as add to (something) in a way that enhances or improves it. This those of you who are offended by this series, or this coin, can still buy coins that honor non-Native American contributors to NASA

  9. KCSO says

    Gee.., I don’t know what’s worse!

    The sterotype we men give to women for nit picking over their shoes.., or us coin collectors nit picking over these designs… 😉

    That ought to make you chuckle,

    They’re both Winners, really good to see some creative and well thought out designs.

    I have one regret, I wish they were being considered for medals, I’d like to see both on a big honking chunk of 3″ bronze.

  10. KCSO says

    Xena, sorry, gonna keep the 5 and debating another order. My Unicorns shipped from APMEX just now, looking forward to seeing those. Price has really shot up, and it really helps to keep some powder dry to jump on those 1st hour pre-sale offerings.

    I hope they quickly play catch up with the other previous BU releases in 10 oz.

    I’m looking for a display case/storage box for what will be a spectacular arrangement of Beast 10 oz silvers

  11. KCSO says

    I really like the format of this article and detail in which it describes the review and authorization process, as well as the rationale of thought behind the design selection and recommendations.

    There’s a lot of value in the information shared above, for those who often wonder why certain design get the ‘nod’ and floated up to the Treasurer.

    It would be great to see more summary articles capturing the salient points of CCAC meetings going forward. Thanks

  12. KCSO says

    Probably doesn’t matter to anyone, except for a ‘bean counter’ types, though for the record, this is the longest period of time, and I believe in excess of 8 weeks, that there has not been a new addition to the offerings that are currently show up as ’99 or less’ in inventory

    2016 Silver Proof Set, Jackie, and Lions Club Proof have be consistently bouncing around of the list with less than 99, though nothing else for months.

    I thought that ’16 PF ASE would have checked by now, oh well.

  13. KCSO says

    The bay is offering a $20 coupon for purchases $100.., Art & Collectibles show up as a category with some Morgans

  14. Tinto says

    I like NA 2019-10 .. I agree with Sith on the NA series, I like the changing reverse and look forward to buying the NA C&C set from the Mint every year . Hopefully the Mint in their infinite lack of wisdom hasn’t discontinued it … it is the only product I now buy regularly from them.

    And I wonder why only 6 planets on 08?

  15. KCSO says

    Yeah, APMX offering the Walking Tribute for $110 less than U.S. Mint list price.., that’s really pretty sad. 29 available

  16. says

    You can get the gold WLH with Apmex direct for $146.00 less than the Mint now. Makes you wonder how they can do that…?

  17. Goat says

    It makes you wonder what they know …..?
    I was looking at “08” & “09” time frame, Stock and Metals market both decreased for awhile.

  18. Larry says

    I really like the enhanced unc versions. Hopefully they will continue making them.

  19. Ernesto says

    @Dennis Tucker – Very good point. It is called the Native American $1 Coin for a reason. The achievements shown don’t mean that Native Americans created/invented the idea presented. It’s just to show that they participated in program that helped put American in space.

    @Erik H – The dollar bill would first have to be removed from circulation to even have any hope of a dollar coin circulating successfully. Canada has done it as well as EU countries. So it is doable. However at this point in time I’d rather have a five dollar coin than a dollar coin. A dollar doesn’t buy that much any more and I don’t want to carry too many coins in my pocket!! 🙂

  20. Jerry Diekmann says

    Hello – I have been out of commission for awhile, recovering now from losing a kidney. I like the 08 and 10 designs, but showing six planets on 08 is unnecessary and it just crowds the design. Maybe just keep Earth and Saturn. I like the eagle feathers and instead of the planets if they could show the astronaut and maybe the rocket I think the design would capture everything that is good in both designs.

  21. Larry says

    Interesting article on the so called rare 2015 “Philly” bullion ASE’s. For some reason, I was under the impression that the monster boxes had the mint they were made at marked on them. According to this article, these only had the West Point Mint marked on them, even if made in Philly.
    The article appears to say, the only difference was whether the box number was hand written on just the box, or the box and a label.
    Has anyone here ever heard this before? if this is just coming out, how did the grading companies know these were from Philly?
    Something fishy is going on. I saw HSN selling MS70 2105 “Philly” ASE’s for something like $2000.00 if I remember correctly. Seems to me someone is going to get burned.

    http://www.coinworld.com/news/us-coins/2017/06/us-mint-update-details-on-2015-silver-eagle-output.html

  22. Xena says

    Jerry – sorry to hear about your kidney. Hope you are healing OK and that the other one stays well.

    Goat -was wondering the same thing – what do they know that causing them to dump these at less than Mint price?

    Dennis Tucker – 😂

  23. earthling says

    Wouldn’t it be cool if instead of replicating the St Gaudens design on all the different sized AGE’s, they’d use the “tribute” designs?

    Wouldn’t that cause a drop ? 😭

  24. So Krates says

    @ Jerry Diekmann – Glad to have you back… I will send out some positive thoughts for your speedy recovery.

  25. MarkInFlorida says

    Hey, I have an idea, how about after the Native Americans series runs its course we issue a series of dollars for Non-Native Americans who have contributed to this great country?
    Albanian Americans
    Andorran Americans
    Armenian Americans
    Assyrian Americans
    Australian Americans
    Austrian Americans
    Azerbaijan Americans
    And that’s just the As. What a series that would be! Think of the celebrations each group could have on the day their coin was released. People would buy thousands of them to spend everywhere they go, to show off their pride of heritage. And we wouldn’t let any group think they weren’t appreciated.

  26. Dennis Tucker says

    @ Jerry — Glad you’re recovering after your surgery. Best wishes!

    @ 1964 Dollar Peace — A 2021 Peace dollar would be interesting, wouldn’t it? It’s hard to anticipate exactly what the Treasury Department will do. The Mint does have authority to create certain coins and medals without congressional orders or approval, so a nice high-relief Peace dollar (or some equivalent) might be in the works. . . .

  27. Tom says

    I believe a coin or medal is past due commemorating us TAX PAYERS that have footed the bill for wasteful spending by those we HIRE to do the job they interviewed for. In gold please. We deserve it

  28. KCSO says

    Explain this to me –

    How does duplication of tracking #’s occur?

    Is the Mint really that F’ed up? Or something I’m missing here?

    Notes to Editors

    Updated Information: 2015 American Eagle Silver Bullion Coin Box Numbers

    The information below updates the American Eagle Bullion Note to Editors from the Mint on May 26, 2017, regarding erroneous information that was released on March 20, 2017, in response to a request made pursuant to the Freedom of Information Act. (Read the May 26 statement.)

    The erroneous information, as well as confusion surrounding the Mint’s use of internal manufacturing tracking numbers — specifically those connected with American Eagle Silver Bullion Coins — resulted in a mistaken belief that some of these coins are rarities.

    As stated in the May 26 Note to Editors, the Mint offers bullion coins through Authorized Purchasers to provide investors the opportunity to acquire precious metal coins at a slight premium to spot market prices. As such, all American Eagle Silver Bullion Coins are, by their very nature, homogeneous. None of these coins bears a mint mark designating the facility where it was produced. The Mint’s goal is to ensure that the American Eagle Silver Bullion Coins struck at any of these three facilities are identical and indistinguishable from one another.

    The results of a comprehensive review by Mint staff are provided here:

    The information released on March 20 incorrectly stated that the box numbers of American Eagle Silver Bullion Coins minted in West Point in 2015 each had six digits, while those minted in Philadelphia had five digits.

    2015 American Eagle Silver Bullion Coins minted in West Point were packaged in one of two ways: manually, or by one of the West Point Mint’s two Auto-tuber machines.

    2015 American Eagle Silver Bullion Coins minted in Philadelphia were all packaged manually. The coins were shipped in so-called “monster boxes,” each of which contains 25 tubes of 20 coins, for a total of 500 coins in each box.

    All monster boxes of 2015 American Eagle Silver Bullion coins minted in West Point bore a computer-generated label that included “WPM.” Labels on manually packaged (or “hand-tubed”) boxes included “WPM,” but were not numbered. The box tracking numbers were hand written on the boxes of hand-tubed coins. Labels on boxes packaged by Auto-tuber #1 and Auto-tuber #2 bore “WPM” followed by a five- or six-digit number. The box tracking numbers were also hand written on the boxes.

    Monster boxes of 2015 American Eagle Silver Bullion Coins minted in Philadelphia did not have a computer-generated tracking number label. Box tracking numbers were hand written directly on the boxes.

    A monster box with its original computer-generated label containing “WPM” followed by: no number, a five-digit tracking number, or a six-digit tracking number would indicate that the coins were struck at West Point.

    Box tracking numbers 10001 through 10159 were used on boxes of coins minted in Philadelphia. Those same box tracking numbers were also used on coins minted in West Point. However, only the West Point monster boxes were shipped with computer-generated labels.

    Because of duplication of box tracking numbers at Philadelphia and West Point, as well as any mistakes in labeling or the possibility that labels on the boxes could have been removed or altered at any time after shipping, the Mint will make no attempt to “verify” the origin of any boxes using techniques related to tracking numbers, labels, or otherwise.

  29. KCSO says

    “Because of duplication of box tracking numbers at Philadelphia and West Point, as well as any mistakes in labeling or the possibility that labels on the boxes could have been removed or altered at any time after shipping…”

    YOU JUST CAN’T MAKE THIS $%!+ UP!

    I’m quitting my day gig and going to go work for the U.S. Mint.., and walk off with a couple Monster boxes of Buffalos…, heck, they’d never know! 😂. Oh geez…

  30. KC&SO says

    The Real Donald just tweeted –

    Happy Canada Day to all of the great people of Canada and to your Prime Minister and my new found friend @JustinTrudeau. #Canada150 

    You just can’t make this stuff up, either.

    Does everyone in a leadership position within the Government think we’re all bunch of bafoons? Sorry, just can’t stop from laughing at all of this

  31. cagcrisp says

    Even with the Mint’s Clarification, I Bet you will continue to see the 2015(P) being offered for sale by the Big Boys.

    No accountability Whatsoever…

  32. Larry says

    The Big Boys need to offer an explanation as to how they know these ASE’s are minted where they say they are. Otherwise anyone that owns one should be able to send them back for a refund.

  33. cagcrisp says

    @ Larry, I Agree Completely.

    However, that will never happen.

    TOO much money is at stake.

    MAYBE the Mint’s clarification will at least SLOW down some sales.

    Still plenty being offered on the Internet by the Big Boys…

  34. cagcrisp says

    The Only adjustments I see the Big Boys making is:

    “These are Rarer than Originally thought. Instead of being 1 of 79,640 Now you can get 1 of 79,500″

    ” How do you Know they’re 1 of 79,500.? Because we Say they are.”…

  35. Old Big Bird says

    @KCSO – thanks for the info – interesting No pricing and it has to be clad

  36. cagcrisp says

    @KCSO, “Or better yet, an Enhanced Fractional Buffalo set 😃”

    You can officially kiss that idea GOODBYE…

    With the Possibility of the $10 Gold 1/10 oz. American Liberty, the Mint is going in the direction of Modern designs vs. the Old designs.

    (However, You will get a 2021 Gold Peace Dollar)…

  37. cagcrisp says

    There were 29 Walking Liberty halves listed on Thursday from APMEX.

    There were 29 Walking Liberty halves listed on Friday from APMEX.

    There are Currently 29 Walking Liberty halves listed from APMEX.

    (That Should tell you Why the pricing is listed at $749.00)…

  38. Teach says

    What makes that UNC set enhanced? I don’t see enhancements in the pictures from the mint web site. They look normal to me.

  39. says

    Teach, that’s more or less protocol from the mint’s graphics department with these new items, don’t know what’s showing up until it’s in hand

    Cag, WRT “You can officially kiss that idea GOODBYE…” – that’s the usual route for the vast majority of my ideas shared on this blog. 😉

    And agree

  40. JARHEADnFLORIDA says

    I would have preferred a reverse silver proof set , instead of the enhanced uncirculated set.

  41. Ridgerunner says

    Thanks KCSO, but I still hope they make the American $1 Coin & Currency Set.

    @Sith: I agree with your thoughts that the native American designs (and series) are awesome. I try to collect them for my wife, who is Native American/Hispanic.

  42. Throckmorton says

    Cagcrisp “With the Possibility of the $10 Gold 1/10 oz. American Liberty, the Mint is going in the direction of Modern designs vs. the Old designs.”

    The mint will ride that design for the next fifty years. You will have fractionals, 5 oz silvers, a reverse proof commemorating the five year anniversary, etc. etc. ad nauseam.

    I really hope the gold Peace dollar comes to pass. They could do a 140th anniversary of the Morgan dollar in gold next year.

  43. cagcrisp says

    @KCSO, “Cag , I’d like to see NPS’s #’s”

    What I found strange was that NONE of the audited numbers for the Twains were the same as the LKS that the Mint has on the website.

    The surcharges generated by the NPS coins ~ $2.08 million…

    …SO… I see the NPS surcharges being paid out…

  44. cagcrisp says

    @Throckmorton, “I really hope the gold Peace dollar comes to pass. They could do a 140th anniversary of the Morgan dollar in gold next year.”

    Considering the Mint’ shrinking customer base, declining revenues, declining profits for the majority of its offerings, I wouldn’t put anything past the Mint.

    Whereas KCSO thinks the 225 Enhanced set will be ~ $34.95, I see it closer to $50

    Lower Mintage, fewer coins and Higher prices.

    That’s the way I see it…

  45. Louis Golino says

    Enhanced means different degrees of laser frosting on different parts of the design like the did with the silver eagle a few years back and on some commems like the civil rights dollar reverse. I am surprised it will be clad and enhanced. I thought it would be in silver, but that means these will be the first ever clad enhanced coins from the mint.

  46. Louis Golino says

    Just catching up…Thanks for the nice feedback. I can use it after some stuff that transpired yesterday, which I will not let ruin my 4th.

  47. Barry says

    btw, I saw the unc enhanced set will have a “S” mintmark and a 225k mintage limit.

  48. Barry says

    There was a price posted temporarily somewhere between $40 and $45 but, it has been removed.

  49. earthling says

    The Mint needs to do something really unorthodox (stupid ? 😵) to generate some free publicity. How about if they just totally eliminate the unpopular and worthless Clad Proof Sets? A fast way to stir the pot.😉

    They could replace it with a 24 kt Proof Set. 😮 They could limit it. Sell it at a totally nutsoid price. Whatever.

    The best thing? No special authorization from Congress. No kidding they wouldn’t need to axe anyone. They could just do it !

    Think of the fireworks that move would cause.

    👌

  50. You Can't See Me says

    The Native American dollar is “enhanced” in the recent coin and currency sets as well. They had lower mintages.
    I’m sure there are more surprises to come.

  51. Dustyroads says

    If the enhanced clad proof set is priced in the $50.00 range that would be sad, considering it’s an entry level set of coins. It would seem that the USM would offer an affordably priced set that could mean something to a beginner. $50.00 is too expensive for this set.

  52. David says

    I just can’t take dollar coins seriously with having the date and MM on the edge. Until those return to the obverse of the Sac dollars I just won’t collect these.

  53. Larry says

    I like the enhanced coins, so I am looking forward to the enhanced set. I don’t see why it should cost any more than the clad proof set at $26.95, but it probably will. I think $35.00. The enhanced ASE is one of my favorite coins. The Kennedy is so so, but the Native American dollars are nice.
    I think 225K is a good mintage, everyone that wants one should get one. If this is the only enhanced set, its future may be good as it will be the only enhanced Penny, Nickel and DIme.

  54. KML in KY says

    I too was hoping for a silver set. The 225th Anniversary is kind of a bust so far.

    KCSO – I think I might go ahead and get the platinum. The first one I got last year had contact marks and went back to the Mint. They replaced it with a perfect coin that graded 70. Unfortunately almost any modern coin that grades less than 70 is a guaranteed money loser and coins in OGP tend to go for 69 prices.

    I got one of the Liberty Silver Medals just to check it out. It looked pretty good in person but had a small gouge on the obverse and it went back to the Mint. As many coins as I’ve sent back in the last few years I’m surprised the mint hasn’t cut me off. The funny thing is all the replacements they have sent me have been perfect. Too bad they didn’t send good ones the first time. However they do send prepaid return labels for defective coins.

    Just got some burnished ASE’s. I need to check the serial numbers. They could have actually been minted in Philadelphia LOL. I better go through them now and see if I need to send any back.

  55. KML in KY says

    Out of 30 burnished ASE’s 17 going to NGC 13 going back to the Mint for a refund.

    Larry – The enhanced ASE is also my favorite ASE. Even though I wish the enhanced sets were silver I’ll probably get a few. 225K is not a huge mintage for a mint set. I’m curious to see what will happen with it.

    I currently have some 2017-S ASE’s (69’s & 70’s), 2015 MOD sets, 2014 Silver Kennedy Sets and a few other modern commems for sale on Great Collections. I’ll let you all know how they do.

  56. Larry says

    I did some looking into how the grading companies figured out where the bullion ASE’s were minted. When the original information was given out by the mint due to the freedom of information act question submitted by someone, the mint had stated that the 2015 Philly boxes serial numbers were 5 digits staring with 1. I have attached a link to a story from April that shows what the grading companies used to identify the coins. As far as I have been able to find out, that is ALL they knew.
    However, if you look at the latest info ( see a comment above from KCSO) we now know that West Point boxes also could have had the same serial numbers!
    So, if that is all the grading companies used to identify the boxes, then it is possible the 2015 coins they say were minted in Philly WERE NOT!
    Last night on HSN our old buddy Mike was selling MS 70 coins for over $4000!. So we are not talking peanuts here. For that kind of money a much better explanation must be forth coming from the grading services to know exactly how they determined these were Philly coins. Until then, all of these coins are suspect in my eye.
    It is possible Mr. Mizak was unaware of the latest info at the time of last nights show, so I don’t want to blame HSN at this time. They were selling certified coins.
    I can see this whole thing blowing up in the not too distant future, and a lot of people who purchased these coins may get burned big time!
    http://news.coinupdate.com/pcgs-to-begin-branch-mint-id-for-certain-american-silver-eagles-gives-tips-on-how-to-identify-the-branch/

  57. cagcrisp says

    @KML “I currently have some 2017-S ASE’s (69’s & 70’s), 2015 MOD sets, 2014 Silver Kennedy Sets and a few other modern commems for sale on Great Collections. I’ll let you all know how they do.”

    I Think you are making some Wise decisions to get out of the coins that you mentioned…

  58. Tom says

    Larry, anyone that has bought one of these “rare” coins has already been burned. If they can , it should be returned. As for dealers in the dark, not hardly.

  59. Tom P. - MA says

    Just playing Captain Obvious here. Xena’s article lists lots of cons to a return to the gold standard. Some of those are valid.

    I’ll just make one brief comment for the other side. 10 trillion new crisp paper $1 bills (figuratively) printed out of thin air in the past 8 years. Neither Trump, Clinton, nor Sanders will be able to stop the slide. Anytime you make something more common, it becomes less valuable. $1 bills are no exception.

  60. Tinto says

    Will the numismatic press ask the TPGs their response to the Mint’s clarification ….

  61. You Can't See Me says

    Prediction: The 225th anniversary enhanced set will sell out in 20 minutes as long as there remains no order limit.

    Have a safe and happy Independance Day!

  62. says

    Prediction: The 225th anniversary enhanced set will sell for $34.95..,

    & within 5 years will Sell on the secondary for $17.

    Additionally, within 5 years, an ounce of Ag or a share of REMX, both currently priced around $17.., will have sold for $34.95

    Happy 4th & Happy Collecting!
    🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸💥🎊🎉💥🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

  63. earthling says

    Barry

    Is it the mideast that does the high quality counterfeiting? That’s probably what their warehouses look like . They got so many warehouses full of counterfeit US $100’s that they have no concern about dumping their Oil on use. Then they send their Jihadists to dump their $100’s on us ( in one form or another).

    👹👳💣

  64. cagcrisp says

    @KCSO, “Additionally, within 5 years, an ounce of Ag or a share of REMX, both currently priced around $17.., will have sold for $34.95”

    I’ll take the Under on Ag being $34.95 in the next 5 years.

    On the COMEX I can buy all the Silver I want for JUL2021 (4 years future) for $18.09.

    Using a $30 option strike price and 4 year horizon, you could Leverage to be a Rich man in 4 years IF Silver was to hit $30

    I would take the Under on Silver Ever being $20 in the next 4 years…

  65. Ryan says

    No…….just no. This coin design is horrible. I consider myself, I won’t even say tolerant of other races because I don’t even think in those terms, people are just people to me but between this and the movie hidden figures I’ve had enough!

  66. HarryB says

    @cag: re your 7/3 6:45 am post on silver futures in response to @KCSO, may I assume you expect a relatively stable USD value, dealing with the US National debt in a non disruptive manner, and relatively stable international relations, I.E. No major wars,etc.? Thanks, Harry

  67. cagcrisp says

    @HarryB , ” may I assume you expect a relatively stable USD value, dealing with the US National debt in a non disruptive manner, and relatively stable international relations, I.E. No major wars,etc.?”

    1. I assume the Fed will continue with rate Increases that will Strengthen the USD
    2. I believe Trump will do Everything in his power to Weaken the USD because for Some reason he is fixated with the US Trade deficit and Not the Budget Deficits and there is No easier method to solve US trade deficits than weaken the USD
    3. I believe that the EU has been Strengthened because of different Trump statements/actions and that will put Less pressure on Precious Metals of All kinds
    4. I have never been one that is too concerned about the Budget Deficit at THIS Point In Time. Twenty years from now with the entitlements , yes the Budget Deficit will be a Major problem (unless actions are taken before then).
    5. I think the idea of a major war has actually decreased since the Presidential election because populism has taken some major hits in France and now Great Britain and populism isn’t working out too well here since the election
    6. …SO… I expect the USD to Weaken in the next few years and the Demand/Pricing for PM’s to Weaken as well.
    7. Thus I don’t see any upward pressure on pricing for PMs…

  68. says

    I assumed that Trump WON’T stop tweeting..,

    & there’s no easy solution around the North Korea issue, people need to wake up

  69. data dave says

    Silver Krugerrand down to $45, only another $15 to go. I think the price needs to fall below $30 to sell the million that they made.

  70. earthling says

    I think the problem with NK is actually more a problem with the USA. What sort of Nation allows itself to be taken over by G H E T T O Culture? And what sort of Nation allows some mamby pamby whatever go around and kiss the worlds behind for 8 years? Of course we let ourselves head toward a takeover by sharia law. I suppose nuttybaby NK wackman thinks he can just threaten our punkazz selves and drop us to our knees? Well, as the saying goes around here, that remains to be seen.

    Of course if we had put that other person in the Big House we wouldn’t be in any situation with NK. Hill AND Bill would have both made a beeline to placate the nutty tyke.

    Yeah no doubt we are in a bad situation in the world. It’s even worst than the WWII era when there as another madman on the loose. But now we have Nukes thrown into the beginning of our problems. Are ISIS, China, Russia, and NK the new Axis Threat? They all look like the same side to me.

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