Anniversary Sets Sold Out

The US Mint’s 20th Anniversary Silver Eagle Sets are now officially sold out.

The sets went on sale yesterday October 27, 2011 at 12:00 Noon ET. As expected, it was extremely difficult for customers to place orders by website or phone. The US Mint indicated that they received orders for approximately 25,000 sets within the first hour.

Around 4:30 PM ET, the US Mint posted the “waiting list notice” on the online product page, indicating that orders had been received for the entire 100,000 production limit.

Based on comments in the previous post, it seems that the extreme difficulty in placing orders continued for the entire duration of the offering. The problems even continued for several hours after the waiting list notice was posted.

Order numbers from the comments in the previous post range from 38324xxx placed at 12:04 PM to 38370xxx placed at 4:17 PM. This represents a difference of about 46,000.

An order placed at 5:24 PM after the waiting list had been imposed  had a number of 38381xxx, which represents a difference of 57,000.

This morning around 10:15 AM ET, the US Mint stopped accepting orders for the waiting list and officially marked the online page as “sold out.”

Ordering problems are unfortunately nothing new for highly desirable, low production US Mint products. As in the past, they admit that they are aware of the problem and offer solutions at a future point in time. The following message was posted on their Facebook page:

We are committed to improving your online ordering experience and have recently awarded a contract that will result in a new, state of art order management system. We appreciate your continued patience and understanding as we work toward implementing this new system in 2012.

There have been indications that a majority of customers placed orders for the household limit of five sets. In retrospect, it seems that the US Mint should have considered a lower limit if they wanted the widest possible distribution. At times in the past, they have indicated that they establish limits with this goal in mind.

The former US Mint Director Edmund Moy even went so far as to completely cancel the 2009 Proof Silver Eagles because it was apparent that some collectors who would want them would not be able to obtain them  due to the limited number the Mint would be able to produce. Under his watch, it was apparently preferable to have everyone end up with nothing, rather than disappoint some.

Many readers have been posting questions about what various statuses represent for their orders. I have not personally studied their various statuses in any detail. I will re-post a comment from “Two Cents” with some explanations:

The Mint uses the word “backorder” in a different way that most people are familiar with.

Most companies are sellers, not manufacturers, so when an item is on “backorder,” that means that they have run out of that item, and need to order more from the manufacturer. That may take days or weeks or even months, so the company is telling the customer that he has to wait until the product comes in.

The Mint is both manufacturer and seller, so when they say “backorder,” they mean that the order is backed up until the coins are minted, assembled, and then shipped to the fulfillment center for mailing.

The Mint uses “hold” to mean that they need time to verify that the order is legitimate (in this case, not more than 5 sets per household) and that the customer’s credit card has sufficient funds. “In process” means that verification has been done, and now all it takes is for the Mint to see if there are enough sets ready for mailing.

“In stock and reserved” means that the coins have been assembled into sets and ready to be shipped to the fulfillment center, and that all verifications have been made. At this point, the Mint has ACCEPTED the order — prior to this, the Mint has only RECEIVED the order. Once the set is labeled for mailing, then you will receive a “Shipped” notice and tracking number (though the actual mailing date may be the next day).

“Suspended” is something new to me. I suppose that is used when a later order is made after the household limit has been reached. I have never seen a “Waiting List” message on the online order receipt or email confirmation, but then, I have never been put on a waiting list.

To sum up, once you see “In process” and/or “In stock and reserved,” you can safely assume that you will get your coins. “Hold” and “Backorder” are used routinely and does not mean that you will not get your coins.

Other readers have had questions about the waiting list.

I am not sure about the prospects of any particular waiting list orders being fulfilled. The US Mint fulfills these orders on a first-in, first-served basis in the event that coins become available due to order cancellations. There are likely tens of thousands of orders on the waiting list based on the order numbers indicated in comments. It seems that at least some of the earlier ones will be fulfilled as the US Mint cancels duplicate orders placed either inadvertently or intentionally.

I don’t believe there is any way to determine if your order was placed after the waiting list was imposed based on the order receipt. My own order was placed at 5:39 PM after the US Mint implemented the waiting list. The receipt does not make any indication that the order is for the waiting list and shows the status as backordered. Generally, any orders placed after 4:30 PM (or so) are most likely for the waiting list.

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Comments

  1. Chris says

    I probably was one of the last ones to make it to the waiting list: 38414XXX @ 9:55 am. Not much hope here.

  2. DR JOE says

    Maybe in the future we all will look back and remember ‘the day of the 25th sell out’ and remember where we were. Oh yeah, sitting with a autoredial phone on speaker and a finger on the refresh button for 4 hours. Even though I am in for 5 I would not be heartbroken to see the mint to drop that to 3 or 4-whatever it takes to spread this to those who missed the lotto based on internet connection or lousy timing on the phone. Good luck to all.

  3. vaughnster says

    This would have been all over the network news if customers had to wait hours to place an order by phone or online for an item from a “private” business. There would have been outrage and calls for Congress to investigate. But since it’s the government, I guess it’s to be expected and we just shrug our shoulders. Not to be political, but how can anyone honestly say that the government runs ANYTHING better than private individuals or companies?? I just don’t get people’s faith in government when there are daily examples of this total mismanagement.

  4. MintSince74 says

    As a longtime Mint Coin Collector , not an eBay reseller or flipper or a dealer middleman , I kinda thought the experience was exciting. At one point , I felt that with the ordering problems (and reading the comments here) , I would not be able to get these for planned Christmas presents . Then when I received my order # , I felt a rush of euphoria. Once I get the “in process” status , I will feel more enjoyment. Those emotions have been missing from recent Mint purchases. Better servers and a Phone queue are needed , but then a sellout could occur even faster.
    The Coin Hobby has changed alot since the 70’s but when a unique coin/set comes out from the USmint , we all compete to purchase and the result is what we saw yesterday… Now they need to release a 25th Anniversary Gold Set…

    Thanks to Mintnewsblog for providing us Collectors with needed Info…

  5. Broooster says

    I am in for 5 sets myself, 5 seperate orders of 1. I went for the household limit, but played fair, figured if I get seperate orders in, so could someone else. I had 4 of them ordered on the net by 12:10, the 5th order took a little while longer, but was completed by 2:30. This makes it more flexable for resale if and when I do flip a couple sets. 2 sets are for my collection no matter what, and they just may stay sealed for a little while as I ponder whether to keep them in Mint packaging or get them graded. We will just have to see.

  6. Falcon says

    Any store having a sale of a popular item would have set a one per customer limit. If the mint wanted to give the most people a chance to buy one they would have done the same.
    Flippers had thier friends and relatives buy the limit. On ebay there was a picture of a seller of the Lincoln Coin and Chronicles that was standing next to 65 boxes of them for sale. That flipper could have purchased 325 of the 25th anniversary sets if he bought them the same way he did the Lincoln sets.
    I agree with the 12:08 poster, there was a rush knowing that I had purchased a set after several hours of trying. I just wish more people had the same chance to feel the rush.

  7. David says

    Any idea as to when PCGS will come out with submission info and coin numbers for all of these coins. It seems they have 4 coins identified, but not all 5 yet…

  8. Prince Vegeta says

    The mint suck! They should have made the limit at 1 per a household for at least one week. 5 is way too much. 4 and a half hours to a sale out should tell them that they made a big mistake. I hope they can come out and change the order limit or something. If I don’t get one, I’ll never look at this set again. I have try my best to get one, but it out of my hand when the **** mint don’t even know how to set the correct limit to put on these hot item.

    Is 4 1/2 hours the quickest sellout? I thought BlackFriday was after Thanksgiving. Man, if i have known it come early this year, I would have waited online. I can’t even laugh at this joke now.

  9. kevin says

    It’s easy for people to be mad about the limit of 5 per household NOW, but in context it made sense – the Mint thought they would be selling a $350-$450 item at the time they announced that limit, and they thought the price would limit demand. After they went with a lower price, they still couldn’t be sure how much demand there would be. I persoanlly thought such a quick sellout was not going to happen, so I don’t blame them.

  10. Grampa Dave says

    Wow, I had to work all day on the 27th and my wife franticly tried her best to place the order. She began shortly after 9:00 a.m. Pacific time, finally ordered at 1:39 P.M. We may have been the last buyer before the waiting list was posted. Time the order went in 4:39P.M.
    Order number: 38374???

    Order Date: 10/27/2011 at 04:39 PM

    Order Status: Your order request is on hold.

  11. Larry says

    I placed my order at around 4:45 PM CT (5:45 ET) and I don’t recall seeing anything about it being on a waiting list at that time. It just looked like a normal order. But when I went on the mints website at 7:00 AM today it definitely said the set was on a waiting list. Are you sure about the 4:30 PM ET?

  12. joe says

    I got a few sets, but still agree that it was the worst experience I’ve ever had with the US Mint. I can’t believe they are unable to address this issue, which has been apparent for years. Yet, my tax dollars are flying out the door at an unprecedented rate. Yes…I understand that the Mint operates on their own budget; however, they do produce revenue for the US Gov and should be put on a pedestal where budgetary outlays are concerned. Take money from the EPA or Dept. of Education where it’s wasted and give it to the US Mint. JMHO.

  13. Coin Master says

    Got 5 sets just after the 4 hour mark at 3:03pm. It only took me a half hour to get through online using two computers and phones simultaneously. Phone lines showed no promise of getting through, but online was working slowly but surely on both computers, so I’m a little surprised to hear some people not getting through unless they weren’t consistent/patiently waiting for the site to load or had a really slow connection to begin with. I definitely want to keep 2 of the 5 sets, wondering if I should try to sell the other 3 graded or just in a sealed box. Not sure if getting them graded will increase the premium or value of the coin enough to warrant the time and additional cost of grading them. Anyone have thoughts on what may be better to do?

  14. says

    It is worth noting that the last big “order flood” was for the Hot Springs coin, and that did NOT result in a sellout. So, it is possible that the Mint genuinely did not anticipate the demand for this product.

    Of course, in retrospect it is easy to see. First, the silver eagle is one of the most (if not the most) well-known and well-established collectible bullion coins in the world. Second, the Mint created two rarities in the reverse proof and the 2011-S uncirc. Third, the 2006 set and the reverse proof quickly accumulated large premiums, leading to a widespread expectation of huge premiums for this set. Then you had the “early warning” indicators flashing red with some of the EBay premiums people were trying to get before the coin even went on sale at the Mint.

    And finally, the AtB five ounce coins were not a well-established coin series at the time, and collectors and dealers seemed to be skeptical of their premium potential and longevity. And it turns out they were largely correct.

  15. Brian says

    When the website was still clogged three hours after the sets went on sale, I knew this item was special. And yet the number of people trying to order these is still relatively small. Could you imagine what it would be like if every American household was trying to get in on these? That’s why I hope these ordering issues never make the mainstream news.

  16. Jeff says

    The problem is not so much those of us who ordered five sets, but those that got their friends, relatives and workers to buy additional sets for resell. I noticed this morning on ebay one person had five sets (25 coins) for sell. Other than limiting the number of sets one can buy at a time there will be no affect. But for those with other people buying for them they will still end up with more coin sets than the true collector.

  17. lobodave says

    I had two computers side by side. The first on signed on a couple minutes before 12 and it took me 15-20 minutes to complete the order. The other computer would never connect with the mint. I tried every 15 minutes or so just to see how things were going and never could get on the mint site…….. I could not get on until after 6PM – – but yet during this time my first computer was able to get back on. The first computer has win7ultimate64bit and the 2nd win7basic32bit – both were using Chrome. Just information I don’t know what to do with.

  18. William says

    I wonder if all the orders for the upcoming Chickasaw quarters and Garfield dollars are also going to crash the Mint’s online/phone services….

  19. Wighty44 says

    @ lobodave,

    I also had two computers trying to access the Mint’s website – one use Firefox and the other IE8. FWIW, I was never able to get on with the Firefox browser, but the IE8 s-l-o-w-l-y loaded the pages and I was finally able to order 2 sets – (O/N 38331xxx).

  20. SunTzu says

    Rob says:
    October 28, 2011 at 12:03 pm

    I feel lucky was on at 11:52 and order was done at 12:02 with confirmation email at 12:06.
    *****************************************

    Me too. I was on at 11:50am with credit card on file and quick checkout enabled and received e-mail confirmation stamped 12:14pm.

    I used Firefox and 3 windows open trying all at once.

  21. jaceravone says

    As a long time buyer of US Mint products, this frenzy was nothing new. As a previous poster mentioned, I had one finger on the refresh button and one on the redial button. What continues to amaze me is that after each time the Mint releases a product like this and after all the hype and pre-release press info that is available, collectors still feel the need to complain and holler when they are not able to place their orders. Most, if not all collectors, should have expected this. I bought 15 sets. I planned ahead. I made sure that I had my family members and friends lined up to place their orders. Why should I be crucified for being opportunistic and why should I feel bad for those that do not take the time to prepare for same. For those that did not prepare, your penalty is to pay double or more. Good luck.

  22. Wylson says

    I was able to get 2. For those that purchased a bunch thru F&F, I’m thinking the initial flip will be great, but after a month or so moderate profits?

  23. jgbuz says

    Started at 12:01 kept getting kicked off, than got 4 sets in my shopping cart at about 12:20, but got disconnected kept trying finally got through at 12:45, lucky I had my account set up and got them 38335XXX

  24. Tom says

    I’m pretty upset about this. I figured it might take 15 or 20 minutes to order, but surely not 5+ hrs to just get on the ‘wait list’. Great. and I was using Verizon highspeed fiberoptic lines. How did every body else just get right in?
    And what about all those outfits on Ebay guaranteing recept and delivery
    How Do They Do It????? There really should have be a limit of one.
    So now I’m on the waitlist for One, since everybody else on this sight
    seems to have bought their Five. Great!???

  25. says

    i got in around the 2 hours mark and my order was 38344****. The only other person I know that was trying got in around the 4 hour mark and is order 38367****. We both got confirmations from the website and both say your order request is on hold. Sounds like we both were able to get in before the shutoff. Craziest thing I have ever seen. I think it’s wrong for these big bullion house to advertise what they would pay and how much profit you would make if you sold to them. These sob’s will turn around and sell em for 3 or 4 times as much. I hope they get no response to their offering and I hope the mint puts pressure on them to stop that practice. The mint belongs to the people, not some clown coin hustlers.

  26. Shutter says

    The problem is not so much those of us who ordered five sets, but those that got their friends, relatives and workers to buy additional sets for resell.
    True enough, but an additional problem was all those people (you know who you are), that insisted on pummeling the site with multiple computers and multiple tabs/browsers in each. You probably didn’t get your order placed any faster, but you slowed everyone else down.

    For those who were placed on the wait list, don’t lose hope just yet. An awful lot of idiots think that if they placed separate orders, the mint won’t figure it out. Also lots of people get their credit cards rejected . By way of example, I ordered 5 Yosemite ATB cons on 7/19 (after limits were removed and less than a week before official sell-out). By middle of August, I assumed that I was out of luck and the lady on the phone told me that it was very unlikely that I would get any. Instead I got 1 on 8/24, 1 on 9/1, and 3 on 9/8. The moral: if your order hasn’t been cancelled, you’re still in the game.

  27. Rob says

    SunTzu
    that’s what i did too. went on at 11:52 and updated my info, then when I placed my order i opened 2-3 tabs and refreshed until one responded. then did quick checkout. learned this process after the lincoln sets.

  28. Fosnock says

    Wylson,

    Based on the “fact” that the mint states that most people bought 5, I disagree I think the price will crash a bit as a lot of flippers will try to get their money back or profits for Xmas. This scenario of course depends on how many of the sets went to the “big boys” or collectors who can afford to hold them for a long time, and how many people want to immediately ride the wave or chase the market.

    I see “free market” forces causing a price decline but once the week hands get weeded out it will go back up, but then I was one of the fools who thought the the 1999 silver proof set for $235 was a deal (after spiking to $400), and they now go for $150.

  29. Fosnock says

    FYI

    I used Firefox with 3-5 windows open. I refreshed as soon as they died, and I closed any tab that kept spinning too long, as I discovered these would hang the entire browser not just its tab. Once one of the windows got thru to the next stage I closed the other windows and re-tabbed the one that made it. I also used Quick Checkout

  30. John says

    If 46,000 orders were place by 4:17p imagine how many would have been place with faster servers! The “wait list” might have happend by 2PM.

    I was really starting to sweat around 2:30 when I finally completed my first order. Next, I hit the back button 2 or 3 times to get to the billing page to place my second order which only took 15 minutes.

    I was surprised to see how slow the site was at 5:30 & 7 when I checked my order status.

    BTW

    Brian says:
    October 28, 2011 at 2:06 pm
    This is a case where I think the First Strike label could be a disadvantage. Only two of the coins will be eligible for First Strike.

    You are right Brian, the Proof, Unc. “W” and Unc. no “S” have been out for a while. How could TPG call them “First Anything”?

  31. joe says

    This kind of reminds me of the 2009 UHR Gold Eagle coin. The difference was that this was limited to 100K and the UHR ultimately sold 100K. Also, one was silver and the other gold.

    The UHR sold for ab$1200 when gold was at approx. $800/ounce. It was crazy trying to get in, but it all settled down within a few hours. Due to the single purchase limit per household, secondary markets were offering a premium to people who would buy a UHR for them. Initially, the flippers got burned when the shine wore off (pardon the pun) after a few months when the Lincoln coins started going on sale. During the second half of 2009, the UHR dropped on the secondary market and you could easily pick up an MS70 coin for less than $1800 via eBay (gold was well over $1K/ounce) after the Mint allowed 10/household to clear their inventory (they eventually lifted the limit altogether). Everyone was predicting that the Mint would shut down the coin or complaining about the Mint was ruining this coin by overproduction. The Mint kept its word and this coin was produced through the end of 2009 (and even a few weeks into 2010?).

    Those who purchased for the beauty of the coin (it’s one of my very favorites) were able to pick up a couple in the aftermarket for very reasonable prices. The reason was the flippers (or people who were just gambling on a quick buck) jumped out quickly flooding the market. It was a thing of beauty when about 6 months went by and the price started escalating. Those who held realized a nice return and those who weren’t “true believers” got burned. The price is now well over $3K for an MS70 and even the MS69s have performed well. The reason is that it is one of the nicest and most unique coins ever produced by this country. Foreign investors are still snapping them up.

    Point is… this set is more affordable than the UHR, rarer than the UHR, sold out faster than the UHR, has a nice historic design, and celebrates the anniversary of probably the most popular PM coin ever produced. I expect prices to rise initially, but the flippers will try and dump simultaneously (like they always do), lose patience, and there could be some good deals out there. I only hope that the ensuing redistribution results in the true collects getting the lion’s share of these coins!

  32. Chris says

    I placed my order this morning @ 9:55 am for 2 sets. Order # 38414XXX. Was probably one of the last ones on the waiting list. Needless to say no hope here.

  33. LD says

    Has anyone received confirmation status that their 25th Anniversary set order is “reserved and in stock”? Has anyone received status that their order has been “canceled”?

  34. Steve says

    I’m done with the Mint. Their limit of 5 instead of 1 has resulted in such a quick sell out, that I did not get a set. I have one example of every SAE produced, but not this set because the mint limited it to 100,000, yet put a higher household limit. Website was pathetic. Is this sour grapes? Sure, but I’ve spent over $20K with the mint this year and after this, I’m done. No more SAE, no more First Spouse, no more of their BS. I’m going to write my Representatives too and let them know what boneheads they have at the mint.

    You know that the system is broke when all you need to do is go to eBay and see people already flipping these for a profit. Disgusting. I’m getting more and more turned off to this hobby and the mint is a big reason why.

  35. Shutter says

    I hope they get no response to their offering and I hope the mint puts pressure on them to stop that practice. The mint belongs to the people, not some clown coin hustlers.

    You seem to be unfamiliar with what the US Mint is and what it does. Have look here. Nowhere does it say that their job is to police the secondary market of the Mint’s products (as long as acquired legally). As to the ownership, The US Mint most certainly does not belong to “the people” or some such faceless creature. If it did, it’d be just as efficient and responsive as the government of N Korea or any of them “People’s Republics”. It belongs to the US Department of the Treasury and operates under direction from Congress. For the moment, the Congress has chosen not to turn US Mint into Gestapo with a smiley face.

  36. says

    Has anyone been following these sets on ebay? There were over 225 active listing a couple of hours ago…..now there are only 29.

    When I clicked on one in my “watch list” it had a message stating that “this listing has been removed”

    Looks like ebay ended a lot of these pre-sale auctions. However, I don’t really see any differences from the auctions that are still active vs the ones that were removed.

  37. peter says

    This is for jaceravone BITE ME! I spent 4 hours at work trying to order this set.Started at noon didn’t complete order till 4:50 to be put on wait list for ONE SET.Due to jerks like you that feel privileged for 15 sets.So I should pay double or even more. I apologize that I have to work so I can pay for my hobby

  38. B T says

    I truly can’t believe how deeply this country has been permiated with the evils of entitlement and socialism. Noone is entitled to receive one of these sets, let alone much if anything else from the govt. Setting aside the fact that there is no truly free market in the minting of legal tender in Amerika, true capitalism provides us with equal opportunity. It does not guarantee equal results.

    If one is not savvy enough to set up the quick checkout prior to a high demand offering, he/she limits his/her probability of acquiring that which he/she wants — but does not need. If one is not savvy enough to simultaneously utilize the myriad browsers made available by the free markets, he/she limits his/her probability of acquiring that which he/she wants — but does not need. If one has no friends or family to take advantage of a highly profitable venture, he/she limits his/her probability of acquiring that which he/she wants — but does not need.

    Hell, why don’t we just redistribute the sets that were bought within the rule set established by the Mint? Please, make the capitalists happy so that we can all go on strike and leave this festering canker!

  39. says

    Follow up from above post. I just got an email from ebay on one of these sets:

    Thank you for your interest in this listing:

    230692987242 – 2011 American Eagle 25th Anniversary Silver Set VERY LOW MINTAGE RARE! PRESALE

    Unfortunately, the listing is no longer available. We understand that this may be disappointing, but sometimes we need to remove listings to protect buyers.

    There are three main reasons why we remove listings:

    — The listing doesn’t follow eBay guidelines.
    — The item isn’t allowed on eBay or can only be listed under certain conditions.
    — The listing contains pictures or words in it that may have created copyright or trademark issues.

    If the seller is able to fix the problem and relist the item, we hope you’ll consider buying it. For privacy reasons, we’re not able to give more specific details

    Apparently, quite a few listing are not following ebay’s guidelines.

  40. chris says

    Jeff says: October 28, 2011 at 1:47 pm

    ” The problem is not so much those of us who ordered five sets, but those that got their friends, relatives and workers to buy additional sets for resell. ”

    This here is the real problem – and not the mint distribution system or the 5-set limit. The “other” associated problem is companies like MCM and Gainsville offering mark ups for sealed boxes to the gullible folks wanting a quick buck.

  41. bob says

    Well, ebay still allows presales – but they also do not allow anyone to put a shipping time of more than 5 business days for any item in the Coins/Bullion category… so it is a grey area, and they must be choosing to remove many of them when they read the listing and it says shipment will not be soon.

    ebay sucks, this is just more of thier anti-seller BS.

    “We still allow presales, but only within 5 days” … WTF?!?! That is their new, even dumber than before policy.

  42. stephen m. says

    I worked hard for my sets. Started at noon, online and phone, and got a confirmation with order# a little after 4:00pm. Four hours straight. I know there are a lot of p.o. people out there but the you can’t do anything about the milk once it’s spilt. I think if you missed out and really want a set go after it. There is still going to be 100,000 sets out there.

  43. bob says

    Steve – EXACTLY. eBay would cancel all of them unless they are within 5 days, because that is the new rule – I am a coin seller and received an email about it. It is the rule.

    So, why don’t they? Because humans do not review all listing, they surely use a computer to scan the listings and the algorightm and scanning does not catch them all – but ti catches many, and probably most.

  44. B T says

    stephen m.,

    Great post. Just don’t say it too loudly and boisterously, lest the hard money socialists that call themselves collectors will have you hanging by a lamppost for not “rewarding” them.

  45. Rob says

    Ebay does not allow duplicate listings (same item same price), so some may have been canceled for that reason. also, people may have not got as many sets as they thought they could and had to cancel their listings.

  46. bob says

    I JUST TRIED TO PUT A 10 DAY HANDLING TIME ON ONE OF MY AUCTIONS, HERE IS THE PROOF OF THE NEW RULE – I RECEIVED THIS MESSAGE FROM EBAY:

    Attention Sellers:
    Please revise your listing to include a handling time of 5 days or less.

    With the rapidly changing values in precious metals, we’re reducing seller risk and enhancing the buying experience by requiring all items in the bullion category be listed with a handling time of 5 days or less.

    This will help make sure buyers receive their bullion items in a timely manner. It will also help improve your performance as a seller by reducing premature item not received complaints, increasing buyer satisfaction and detailed seller ratings.

    Learn more about handling time guidelines in our selling practices policy.

    REMEMBER – presales are still allowed, and PayPal policy allows for presales within 20 business days last time I checked – but ebay is removing listing if they realize it is a presale and not within 5 business days. Since they wont even let you list with a ship time over 5 days, you cant break that rule – from there they can only catch you if thier computer flags your listing because you mention in it that it will be over 5 days.

  47. says

    Face it guys America has become a third world country with fourth rate service virtually overnight (actually more like during the last 20 years or so). Quality of service is a hollow term in business colleges across the country.

    Someone here earlier suggested private business could do a better job. Well i can tell you from personal experience during the Wall Street meltdown the middle class lost retirement funds, pensions, investments and virtually everything else due to the total incompetence and avarice of many of the men and women running our financial interests. And if the mint is ever turned over to private business you better learn to speak and understand a lot of different languages because most of U.S. business phone banks are located half way around the world now.

    What is the answer? There is none. Nobody is going to change a thing unless they manage somehow to make it even worse. If we hold our breath we might get some slickly worded p.r. spin about how all will be better next time.

    Don’t worry, be happy!

  48. Rick says

    There are a number of fixes that can be done by the U.S. Mint to avoid this mad rush to order popular coins resulting in many unhappy people who were either unable to get the coins or spent hours in doing so.

    My solution (which is unlikely to be favored by resellers) is to mint to demand for orders placed in the first week. It would eliminate the need to try to order immediately which should dramatically reduce the load the 1st day. Collectors, who should be the target consumers of these coins (not the resellers), would be sure of having their orders go through. Then, after the 1st week, the U.S. Mint could evaluate the orders placed and decide to either leave the “mint to demand” in place or to subsequently set a mintage limit.

  49. bob says

    EBAY PRESALE POLICY:
    http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/pre-sale.html
    (confirms Presales are allowed within 30 days)

    EBAY COINS AND BULLION POLICY:
    http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/currstamps.html
    (doesnt mention 5 day max handling time)

    INTERESTING ARTICLE ABOUT EBAY COINS AND BULLION POLICY CHANGES;
    http://coins.about.com/b/2007/09/15/ebay-to-implement-sweeping-new-slabs-policy.htm

    Apparently, these new anti-seller policies went into effect sometime around October 1, 2011.

    I don’t understand why ebay has done this – it is nonsensical. ebay/paypal allow 45 days for buyer claims, so why can’t you still sell things within 30 days? Ridiculous.

    Maybe we should complain to ebay about this anti-seller bullpoop – afterall, the coins and bullion category is one of their most profitable. That’s why they no longer will apy ebay bucks on the coin category either.

  50. B T says

    nightowl7,

    You’re erroneously lumping the big Wall Street investment houses — an extension of government — in with the private sector? As Mussolini’s ghost writer said, “Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism, as it is the merger of corporate and government power.” Tell me, how many Amazons got bailed out by Congress? In capitalism and free marketeering, are losses socialized?

    The citizens continue to support this nonsense. They voted them in for decades, they continue to vote them in. I feel no pity for people who continue to invest with gigantic brokerages currying favor in Washington.

    And yes, if the Mint had private competition, it is axiomatic that they would either improve their services or become the next Postal Service. That is, after all, the primary reason that private mints were destroyed in this country in previous centuries, and not because of the faux “standards” excuses levied by Congress.

  51. says

    Rick at 508pm…that is a good suggestion. The mint could also update and add additional servers without spending a fortune. If they have to add a few bucks to orders i doubt if many of us would be concerned.

    This scenario will repeat itself until someone there decides to make some enlightened changes. It looks like there is going to be a lot of volatility in precious metals during the near future which will enhance demand for mint products to an even greater degree.

    I would also like to repeat an earlier suggestion from one of our posters that if you have placed several different orders and don’t really need them all, cancel one so collectors who are on the waiting list can get a shot at getting one order filled.

  52. Michael (not the Mint News Blog author) says

    I tried from 12:05 PM until 4:45 PM to place an order for just one set and I could not sign in. It was not until I was home when I was able to sign in, by then the waiting list was up. It was frustrating and disappointing and with the projected markup, probably too high of a price in the secondary market. Most likely out of luck. I agree, the mint could have limite of one per household just as they did with the start of the 5oz quarters.

  53. Alex says

    I just check my order again today. It was at 4:29 with # of 3837****, said it is on hold as backorder. I am not sure if I’m in the clear or not. Does anyone have any idea?

  54. Louis says

    For those who are turned off about modern coins because of this fiasco, don’t forget that there are lots of other, older and in many ways more interesting coin series out there like Morgan dollars, type coins, etc. They will always be in demand. Just buy the best quality you can afford. People who made a lot on these sets may want to put their profits into those kind of coins.

  55. Parker says

    No one has status as IN STOCK AND RESERVED;
    So in short, no one know if anyone is indeed CONFIRM

  56. Trubach says

    My brother in law asked me to order 1 set for him,but today I got email from US mint with cancelation.

  57. Vaughnster says

    eBay is aware how quickly the sets sold out and the chances are that some who think they’ll get sets, won’t. They require a “unique” photo of the sets, showing they are in hand to be able to be sold. A confirmation number doesn’t cut it.

  58. Trubach says

    LD, 38383xxx and another persons I know order #38341xxx were canceled too and I founded that cancelation emails came almost same time.

  59. kevin says

    This is actually far more amazing than the quick sellout… 100,000 people have sets to sell, and there are 6 ebay listings that haven’t been removed yet! (they will probably come down before ending)

    WOW

  60. jim says

    I played by the rules and just got 5 sets

    3 units backordered. Expected to ship on 11/11/2011.
    2 units backordered. Expected to ship on 11/11/2011.

    I will get them graded ASAP all I want is one set to be 70

  61. tim says

    Ordered at 12:07 2 sets, email confirmation a 12:10. To those that ordered 5 or more would it not be better to just keep it to yourselves? Be nice !

    I logged on around 11:30, using Firefox, using quick checkout. No trouble, no tricks, no gimmicks.

  62. Tom Jarfas says

    I got in about 3.20pm for my five sets. I think a better way would be to annouce the sale of the coins and let everyone sign up for it along with the number that they want. Then when it is time for the release have the computer pick among those signed up until it gets to the production limit. The rest of the people would just miss out. This beats trying for hours to get through to the mint to place an order and the mint could laid off the few phone operator that they have. Very fustrated with the current system!!!

    What does everyone else think about this?

  63. ultra-crepidarian says

    I think it was obvious BEFORE the sale that a five set limit was problematic. The Mint management should have imposed an initial, more conservative, one set order limit. Their failure to do so is the primary underlying cause of this fiasco. I will reserve judgment of the Mint until I see how they ultimately manage this situation.

    I also want people to realize that many individuals tried to order their sets in a timely manner and were denied by the Mint’s Byzantine ordering system. The fact that I got my five sets ordered was not because of my entrepreneurial spirit, hard work, superior understand of technology or other such non-sense. I was lucky and I have enough empathy to understand the disappointment of fellow collectors who were not so lucky. Kudos to DR JOE @ 11:56 am: I am with you brother.

  64. Samuel says

    I think the people need to be blamed are the dealers who sent email to tens of thousands of their clients.

  65. Alex says

    How do you know if you order is under the waiting list? Do the order say anything about it? I made three different order, and they all say backorder only.

  66. dave says

    I called to today to ask about my back order status order. The mind told that many many possibliy thousands of orders will be cancled to because to many people odered more than the limit

    he also said I could be on the wait list for months ! wow waits list for months not sure what to think

  67. old folkie says

    Many of us tried early to get the sets, got them ordered, and then were kicked off at check out, time and time again. Yes, I’m a bit bitter. We won’t get our coins because the mints system and methods are a pathetic mess. Some say this is just the way it works, some have no empathy at all, some think it’s OK to buy 15 sets to pad their own pockets. For all of us that have proof we tried, and failed time and time again because of the mints system I say lets rectify this the American way. Class lawsuit anyone? Just kidding? Who knows, the mint created this mess and the mint could make things right if they cared to.

  68. Shutter says

    blah…blah…blah…And if the mint is ever turned over to private business…blah…blah…blah

    This may be a complete shock to nightowl7, but the US Mint has already turned over a great deal of its functions to private business. That’s why when you get a shipment from the Mint, the return address says PBGS. That’s also why after the coins are shipped they are delivered to your door next morning no later than 10:30, instead of 2-3 weeks later (assuming thieving postal workers don’t get them first).

    Every year federal employees do less and less of what could be reasonably described as work. Contractors do more of it each year. Federal “workers” mostly concentrate on accruing pensions. That seems to tax their abilities with little energy to spare for anything else.

    Incidentally, here is a question for all of you complaining about the Mint’s performance. So far this year, the mint experienced this type of failure twice. That’s 2 days out of 291. On all other days their site functioned just fine and on all business days you could get to a helpful human within 5-10 minutes. This may not be a great record, but how many companies out there can match it? In addition, the Mint could have easily solved this problem by removing the buying limits and announcing that it will produce up to 20,000,000 sets. How many of you would prefer that?

  69. says

    trubach, i dont know why a 38341xxx would be canceled. my order is 38344xxx and i got the order confirmation saying backordered 11/10/11. kinda wierd that one that early was canceled. my order went in at around 2pm on the phone. gave up on the computer since i was on an aircard. confirmed for 5 of them. i have a coin collecting buddy who got thru around 4pm and his order is 38367xxxx on the computer. the only difference in our confirmations is the backorder date. mine says 11/10 and his says 11/11. wierd!

  70. Shutter says

    he also said I could be on the wait list for months ! wow waits list for months not sure what to think
    Don’t think anything. If you’re still on the waiting list and still want the coins, just make sure you CC is still valid, and if it expires, call them and give them the new number.

  71. Bos says

    First, thanks to the host of the blog for providing this service. Almost as much fun as waiting for my first PT Cruiser to arrive back in 2001!

    I do have some observations. First, what happened with the intent of the government to make the Eagle series strictly for bullion investment, and not for collecting. For being a non-collectible series at the beginning, it has certainly taken on a life of its own. Is this because of our friends on TV hyping it to the point that a non-collectible investment tool has now morphed? There are more than 30 million of these things made just this year alone, how can that be considered “rare” by any stretch.

    Secondly, what is the problem with the ordering system? Would you rather have to stand outside in the rain, camped on the sidewalk in Philadelphia or Denver? Or how about dealing with an outfit like one of the big ticket vending companies, the type operation that handles sports events and concerts, that skims all the best stuff off for the high rollers who swap favors (and who knows what) behind the scenes? What about “earliest postmark” would you really rather fill out a form, enclose a check, and mail it off, and hope for the best?

    I really thing the mint’s system worked well. Any other system, private or otherwise, would have gone down in an denial of service attack like the one that took place yesterday. Opening 5 computers and multiple browsers on each one, then clicking endlessly? Give me a break, no wonder the site was slow. I am amazed that any site could stay up given the pummeling it took.

    I dislike ebay. It has ruined more hobbies and legitimate brick and mortar businesses than I can count. Why do we allow a monster like that to exist, much less to run our lives and businesses? Isn’t it time to get back to basics of joining a local group of like-minded collectors and perhaps putting on a coin show at the Holiday Inn ballroom? Or is the cat out of the bag now, never to be put back?

    I dislike professional grading services. First of all, the state of the coin is, by definition, molested, once it has gone to one of the services. Somebody has to take it out of the original package, hence it is no longer original. Slabbing coins reminds me of a “diamond of the month club” that used to call at work. If you would just buy their investment grade gems, they would be guaranteed to go up in value, and the selling company would guarantee to buy them back at the same price. Only problem, you could not take them out of the capsule, or that would void the guarantee. So, you can’t appraise it, sell it to somebody else, or even take it in your hands and fondle it. What good is a diamond or a coin in a plastic capsule? And the census reports, purely bogus.

    It is a pretty coin set, I can’t argue that, and hopefully the mint won’t decide to produce a million “S” mint eagles later on. Remember a few years ago when the post office made a few sheets of upside down stamp, then produced millions more when the “error” was publicized? Wouldn’t that be a hoot to find another product suddently added to the mint’s list. They probably already made them, just waiting until Christmast to cut them loose.

    This is supposed to be a hobby folks. Unwind a little. Take a deep breath, have a beer, and enjoy it.

  72. Salacious Crumb says

    Yes, keep your CC bill paid on time and up to date. I remember I lost an order a couple years back because my CC number was stolen and I had it cancelled and replaced. So I lost my order at the Mint because I totally forgot about it.

  73. VA Bob says

    I logged on my computer at work about 11:50 and got bumped off about 8 minutes later. I was able to log in several times, but couldn’t seem to get to the cart. I was running IE and Fire Fox on the same PC. I did finally notice my cart had one in it. I kept hitting refresh and finally got to the cart, changed the 1 to 3 (that’s all I wanted) and through quick checkout just kept going for one more click. My order was at 1:33 est. I almost gave up several times, thinking I’d wait until I got home. Had I done so, I get off at 4:30 PM home a bit after 5. We all know (now) that time would have been less than desirable to place an order.

    For the folks on the waiting list, keep the faith, it may not be over for you. Plenty of mistakes in addresses and credit cards HAVE been made. Other will be declined when it’s time to ship. Still others will have nobody there to sign for them and be returned. This is how it is on even good, normal days. I would recommend if you are on the list, call the mint and change it to 1 if you have more than that selected. The mint may try to make as many people happy as possible. If your down for 5, you may get one or you might be passed over for 5 other customers. Just my suggestion.

    As for the flippers and the F&F buyers… personally I don’t like it, but I do believe in capitalism, so I agree fundamentally, with your efforts, which break no laws. I don’t sell (I’m a collector), and if I don’t get something I won’t buy at higher price from you. I just just don’t need anything that badly to pay more than I believe it’s worth, especially a few days or weeks later. So if you had to rely on me, your flipping days wouldn’t be very profitable. That said, seems like there are plenty that will part with their hard earned cash without a thought. I empathize with serious collectors that can’t get one, while some, with little or no interest in the hobby, are just looking for a windfall. But, that’s the system and it’s as close to fair as it could be. If some are feeling cheated, well there’s always karma. It does go around.

    I do wish the mint would put these things in play during non-work hours (well for most) maybe 9PM est. Of course others wouldn’t be happy with that.

  74. B T says

    ultra-crepidarian,

    People who scored their sets did so via a combination of good fortune and foresight. That’s life, there are winners and losers in everything; and when the odds are (knowingly) stacked against you, it behooves you to reduce the probability of failure via previously mentioned examples.

    Given the fact that the govt., Mint included, is nothing more than a monopoly enforced with the barrel of a gun, expecting dramatic improvements to the system is inane without competition. So maybe next time people will use minor technological workarounds that the free market provided, coupled with quick checkout, multiple phone lines, and friends.

  75. Louis says

    Two points:

    1.) All the gloaters and know it all types do not seem to get that most of us who spent the entire day trying to order know all those tricks- the quick checkout, muliple browsers, multiple devices, etc. But luck and other factors were at work here. I got mine but it was a royal pain.

    2.) I prefer to have compassion for those who missed out than to take pleasure in their misfortune. What do you really get out of your schaudenfreunde?

    3.) If the private sector is so great, what’s up with e-Bay’s new policy? Lots of large companies (think Microsoft for ex.) have done dumb things. The problem is not government per se but large institutions that are not well run.

  76. B T says

    old folkie,

    I’ll be brutally honest here. I have no empathy because empathy has no business in, well, business. For 48 hours encompassing this entire situation, I have been sidelined with a nasty strain of the norovirus. I knew I would not have the energy to keep up with the Mint’s horrific system for hours, so I set up everything (computers, browsers, system processes, and Mint account) and let it ride. I was able to hang in there for 90 minutes until I had to get to bed again, and fortunately for me, my wife was able to get the sets — even without me telling her to do a quick checkout — by 1330 EST.

    If Americans really wanted this situation to be resolved once and for all, they’d be calling for reinstatement of private mints striking silver eagles, etc.

    http://www.thefreemanonline.org/featured/private-coinage-in-america/

  77. Ed says

    For those who do not know if their orders are on a wait list or not here is the answer. If you order was taken after 5pm then you are on the wait list. I just confirmed this with a order taker at the US Mint web site. She also told me that people have been calling in mad that their order(s) have been cancelled. It will take sometime for the Mint to catch up with the orders. It is safe to say if you ordered before 4:30 PM EST then you are okay. Now I asked her if the Mint will increase the limit because of the trouble people had getting in and the answer was that is the rumor going around. But her experience is that when the Mint set a limit it is set.

    So keep your fingers cross. Oh yes for those flippers on Ebay a lot of them have been taken down by Ebay only to be replaced by others.

    If you are mad about the ASE troubles here is a the direct number to the US Mint Catalog Coin complaint department 202-354-6675. And here is the direct number to the US Mint. United States Mint telephone hours: Weekdays 9:00am to 5:30pm EST, except holidays.
    Telephone: (202) 756-6468
    Fax: (202) 756-6200

  78. B T says

    Louis,

    Your first point is moot for those of us who did the same thing, both in the past and now. I personally have missed out on several issues that I would have liked to get from the Mint, in order to avoid the secondary market. Oh well, life is not fair and I rewarded other entrepreneurs for filling that role for me. I have this feeling that many of the complainers conveniently forget what a pain it was to complete lengthy sets in the past, and how much easier it is to do so in even the less ideal scenarios like yesterday.

    Your second point used to have meaning to me, once upon a time, when others had said it. But I got tired of apologizing for whatever I happened to do right when others failed. Whether it was luck, savvy, knowledge, etc., I got sick of listening to people complain and try to make others feel guilty for their successes. People talk about greed, but the flipside of that is envy.

    Your third point regarding the private sector — assuming we are really talking about the private sector and not a quasi-public, govt. marriage — should be self-evident. You have a choice to use Ebay. Go to Teletrade, DLRC, BST, and so on. Or better yet, put up your own capital and start your own auction house. That’s the beauty of the free markets. If you don’t like what one company provides, move on to the next or start one yourself. The problem with the Mint is that it is a govt. monopoly. If people want it fixed, demand that we get competition in minting and currency.

    Capitalism is beautiful. If I am not as successful as someone else to further my self-interest, I have no doubt that someone will be there, with *their* self-interest in mind, to ease my “burden” — for a price.

    Something you all need to remember (and no, I am not in the coin dealing business, nor have I ever been): Do you all realize how many people the dealers employ to provide you with products? How many mouths do they feed? How about that extra cash they pay out to the folks who got their sets?

    I’ll say this, this has been a confirmation for me. I would never start a business in this country. It’s easier to incorporate abroad and deal with folks who actually appreciate being able to buy such luxuries.

  79. says

    BT, you have convinced me and i’m sure many others….i think i’ll fly over to China, the ultimate study of raw, unfettered capitalism, and kiss a smokestack or two.

  80. chris says

    This back and forth reminds me of the many coins I wanted to purchase from the mint but missed out : The Buffalo silver dollar, the 2008-W Buffalo coin set, … just did not have the money – no complaints from yours truly. Wish all the very best.

  81. B T says

    nightowl7,

    China’s not for me. I prefer emerging markets with the thirst for innovation and success, not state-run, crony capitalism. Beijing == Washington/Wall Street with the added bonus of overt human rights violations.

    This Mint fiasco is a crystal clear reminder to the very small fry like me as to why companies will not invest here and are increasingly taking their balls and going home. Or going on strike as Rand would say.

  82. Glenn S says

    For the gloaters and no it alls that say you should have been prepared,many of use were prepared and also had quick checkout and signed in and everything you needed to do to make it easy to accomplish getting your sets..My first shot at getting one i made it all the way through at around 12:13 and at the scree about billing address I thik is where it timed out..I kow from previous experiences to open a duplicate tab when you get to a certain poiint in case something happens.Well the thing timed out ovber and over again and i backed up and kept trying to get back to my original point.After for hours trying and using two browsers ie and firefox I finally got through and it actually completed around 1:35-1:45 as i made it back to work by 2:06..
    The firefox which kept not even wanting to open the Website in the first place is the one that finally made it through al the steps..they eed to stremaline the steps and youi think quick checout would actually be quick and not many steps but alas doesn’t work that way and time out time out time out over and over and over again…Sometimes you would be able to refresh and other times able to go back browsr and it would get you back to your cart but many times you just had to start over with a new browser..My co worker thought i was carazy for leaving work at 11:30 to rush home to do this.I got home and tried to get through to the website for almost 10 minutes before finally getting on there at 11:55 and signing in before 12:00 but stil took those 2 hours after that so F U you smug arseholes telling others they should have been prepared as many were and just did not get the luck of the draw…I told a couple friends about the set and the one girl wanted me to order her one when i got back to work or sell her one of my sets..Tough for her her bf was off work until 3:30 he could have tried for a few hours but didn’t want to waste the time so their loss…My co Worker that thought me foolish beause i did the same thing for the ATB first set and he just went home after work and ordered his set and did not have to use Personal time off to accomplish it probably wil be a little upset Monday when he comes to work and knows i got 5 sets and he couldn’t get any..Maybe he got on the waiting list before 5 pm and who knows for those people..Congrats to those that got the legal limit of 5, screw those that got 15(some of us have compassion for others and do not want to take away from a chance for someoe else to get their sets) And i feel bad for the collector that missed ou as i did with the 2006 set that the mint cancelled on me and the Legacy set they cancelled too as i must have been near the end of the list on those =(

  83. Louis says

    I am not against dealers. I know many of the biggest dealers in the country and think they are great. I also may favor privatizing the Mint, but doing so is likely to raise prices substantially. Look at the Mints of other countries most of which are private, even in Europe. They all charge much higher premiums for pm collectible coins than our Mint charges. They also sometimes have ordering fiascoes worse than ours does. All i am saying is going totally private will not solve all the problems and may create ones that do not exist now.
    Anyway, as someone else pointed out most of the US Mint’s functions are already carried out by contractors. Contractors are far from some kind of magic bullet. They seem cheaper because they don’t get the same benefits, but study after study has shown they actually cost several times what regular feds do. They are just an accounting gimmick designed to make it look like a certain agency is spending less than it really is. And all fed haters seem to forget that without the feds in the CIA, State dept., etc. the U.S. would never have gotten Bin Laden and other terrorists. And there are all kinds of other examples in other areas. We need people with institutional memory and the kind of expertise that contractors don’t have, but we are pretty off point now.

  84. B T says

    Louis,

    Yeah, I don’t want to derail this thread any further than it has been, and we could go back and forth on the issues of government in general.

    With respect to the Mint: I am not in favor of privatizing the United States Mint. In 4 APR, 1792, it was determined to be a legitimate function of Congress under Article 1, Section 8, Clause 5, by men far greater than you, me, or anyone else this country has likely produced since then. I can respect that.

    Contracting vehicles of the Mint is nothing more than a public-private partnership, and, as such, is quasipublic. Adam Smith discussed such ventures in detail and I will not wax about them again. They are not market efficient.

    What I am in favor of is repealing legal tender laws and the 1864 prohibition of private mints. Let purely private ventures give us a shot at silver eagles, silver Transformers, or whatever. Stamp them with the famous Higley stamp if you will. Give the U.S. Mint some legitimate competition.

    After all, if they’re the best, they can prove it and have nothing to be scared of, right?

  85. says

    Louis,

    I think most of those trying to shout down criticism of the Mint are flippers and dealers who don’t want people complaining too much and ruining their cash cow. After all, if most serious collectors are able to get the coins at release, who will the flippers/dealers sell to?

    While I think the criticism of the Mint is overblown at times, it is ridiculous to have flippers and dealers DDoS the Mint’s website and shut regular people out of every release that arouses excitement. It is clear from the comments on this board that a large number of people were not able to get the coins despite being logged in ahead of time, attempting to use the quick checkout, etc.

    Furthermore, as our blog host noted, “In retrospect, it seems that the US Mint should have considered a lower limit if they wanted the widest possible distribution. At times in the past, they have indicated that they establish limits with this goal in mind.”

    The US Mint has stated that its goal is to distribute the coins as widely as possible to their collectors. It is not wrong to complain when the Mint fails to meet this goal, and in this instance they clearly failed.

  86. says

    BT i think a lot of this could be fixed fairly easily with the right technology. The Mint does a lot of things right in the production of the coins…the artwork and design are about as close to perfection as anyone could get.

    Service overall is very professional and second to none, and if they do eventually get the ordering system up to par i guess we’ll need to find something else to blog about.

  87. used to like mint says

    Is wanting to add a set to your personal collection really about capitalism? I didn’t realize that the hobby of coin collecting was all about free market competition to make a profit or that the mint’s offerings to the public were really for dealers to get their hands on first so they can mark up the price. I don’t recall my father mentioning that when I started collecting pennies as a child.

  88. B T says

    nightowl7,

    I don’t really disagree with what you just said. But I will add this: The private sector should not be prevented from doing the same thing, let alone incarcerated for doing it. Let other domestic mints be able to issue our old and silver eagles and let’s see who provides the best service and product, without the backing of taxpayers.

    CaptainOverKill,

    You would be very off the mark if your comments are directed at me. I have spent the last 2.5 years of my life building an incredible system related to numismatics, which will probably take me another 4 years or so to get to production. I have forsaken a lot of fun I could have otherwise had to pursue my love of this hobby, which to me has become a study of numismatics as well as monetary policy and macroeconomics.

    In addition to that, I am a capitalist and I am proud of it. My self-interest and desire to succeed merely complement my love of numismatics. And as I said above, I will never again apologize to hard money socialists for success, be it from luck or hard work — both of which I have experienced. I will make money — legitimately — whenever I have the ability or self-interest to do so. Lastly, I assure you I don’t represent a single numismatic interest other than my own, and never have. Quite frankly, if I were a dealer in America, I’d re-incorporate overseas. It’s only a matter of time before it happens anyways.

  89. says

    B T,

    It isn’t really directed at you.

    My basic stance is that the Mint clearly has problems with their business model, and criticizing their model is neither “whining” nor “wrong.” I was one of the lucky ones who managed to get a set, but I would have preferred most people who wanted one to be able to get one. I wasn’t posting tips in the comment thread yesterday just to fill space on the road to 500! 🙂

    It was depressing to read about how these same old problems have been going on for almost 4 years (I don’t have the money for the first spouses and wasn’t nearly as deeply into the hobby as I am now) so I was unaware of how long their ordering process has been a mess.

  90. Bob says

    To BT and others: Please stop the political commentary!

    I hear enough of this crap on every other site I visit on a daily basis. Can we please just discuss coins!

  91. picturefun says

    I think those who have their fingers pointing to other flippers who might bought more sets using their friends and relative card and address are blaming wrong parties!

    Personally, I think coin dealers are the ones who should get blamed at. They are the ones who offer high price to buy back. For example, APMEX offers $425 vs. $300 Mint original price. Of course, people will jump in to make this kind of easy profit. Why not?

    Internet is fair, everyone is having a fair chance to shoot at. If for whatever reason, you could not get a set, then just blame yourself for bad luck. Mint can update their infrastructure, but that will only make hot product selling out faster. So many who want it will still be left out in the cold.

    Those who follows Perth Mint Lunar year of Dragon silver coin, should noticed that the 300,000 BU Dragon coins were MOSTLY horded by U.S. coin dealers. They bought those coins at $50 or so, then certified them, selling anywhere bet. $100-400 a piece. Small collectors like me did NOT even have a chance to buy it because it was sold out before officially offering to the public.

    So at least the U.S. Mint gives everyone a FAIR chance.

  92. Konde says

    I live on the West Coast. By the time the mint opened the gate, I just got to work. I tried a few times to log in to the website with no success. By lunch time, the website was still impossible to get through. I finally got my order in about 15:30 Pacific time after trying a few times. It was on the waiting list with almost no chance of getting the coins (# 38397XXX). I learned today that it was about 27,000 orders since the wait list was put up.
    I would love to have the Mint consider the fact that some people must work and people live in a different time zones.
    I called the Mint today to inquire about the order. Dale, a nice gentleman, tried to assure me not to loose hope. He also told me something that was kind of disturbing to me, that they have many seniors who were not into online ordering that usually ordered by phone were completely left out.
    Something to think about!

  93. Broooster says

    I dont understand the back and forth about flippers and dealers bogging down the mint. I am not a dealer, only flip once in a while, and collect what I want to collect. I ordered the household limit, 5 sets. BUT, I ordered 1 set at a time. NO special tricks, NO help from friends or family, just me and the computer. I had 4 sets ordered by 12:10, and the last order went in at 2:30. So, that mean to me that everyone and anyone had a fair shot. Do I feel bad that some people didnt get, sure, but I am not going to loose any sleep, because I went about it 1 set at a time.

  94. Ed says

    Orders numbers do not add up. How is it that an order between the Mint on Oct 7 the Gettysburg 5 ounce ATB and Oct 27th the ASE 25th sales be only 132,523. That is the difference between my two orders. Tell me in only 20 days tThe US Mint only had 32,523 orders if you exclude the 100,000 ASE 25th set.
    Do not understand . Can anyone shed some light on this for me?

  95. David says

    Not to pile on, but I feel like a dope. After trying web and phone methods all afternoon (in between getting actual work done!), I finally started having luck with the web site around 4:15. I manage to get 5 sets into my shopping cart, but then decided to go ahead and pick up the Gettyburg and Glacier ATBs before any price increase. Well, after all the clicking and waiting, I finally checked out at 4:48– order # 38375***. Not until I checked here later did I have any idea that the waitlist notice had been posted at 4:30! D’OH!

  96. Broooster says

    Considering most orders for the 25th anniversary consist of 5 sets, you can’t figure in 100,000 order numbers for 100,000 sets. It’s 1 order number per order, not 1 order number per item.

  97. joe says

    The Mint produced the nicest coin ever made (IMO): the 2009 UHR Gold Eagle. They made it readily available to the masses for almost a year. The flippers got burned on it and those who were patient and held were rewarded. I’m sorry that everyone can’t have everything they want in life, but life just isn’t fair sometimes. I have personally I’ve received some nice coins from the Mint over the years, so it all evens out. The insanely old IT system they use (and the nightmare it causes customers when rare coins are put on sale) is all part of the crap shoot.

  98. VA Bob says

    Ed – You don’t think 32K orders are a lot for 20 (average) days? I’m sure some of those had multiple products in the orders. The only major release prior to the 25th anniversary set, in the period you mention, was the 5 oz glacier, and I believe one of those three coin quarter sets… both of which have hardly set the coin collecting world on fire. Besides plenty probably thought they could combine their orders with the 25AS to save on shipping and waited. I believe the number of orders over the period of time you mention (1600 a day) is pretty good, considering what products were available and anticipation of what was to come. I mean even before back then the hype was building for Oct 27.

  99. rcn says

    For pete’s sake… all this whining, all this back and forth bickering, all these holier than thou attitudes that are on here!!

    I don’t know what is worse… all the problems and waiting that we had to do yesterday to order these Coins, or having to read through this entire litany of comments on here!!

    I do appreciate all of Mike’s input in regard to this blog, and have read some of the comments in the past to be more informed, but honestly at this stage I would almost be happy if Mike decided to turn the Comments OFF once again!!

  100. Rolling Thunder says

    I’ve been a coin collector for ~50 years – since I was 12 years old. It was really fun then – my friend and I would drive the bank tellers crazy – after school we’d buy a couple of rolls of cents, look through them on a bench in the bank for dates we needed or collected – then go back and exchange the rolls for new ones until they would get mad and chase us out. Latter it was rolls of dimes & quarters looking for silver. I bought my first coins from the mint in 1964 – luckily it was uncirculated mint sets with the 1st Kennedy halfs – I think I paid $2.10 a set!

    I’m still a collector and still have some of those coins – but things sure have changed! I’ve never seen anything like the last few days – its complex, its insane, its innane. its fun, its fair & its unfair – its just life – relax and enjoy it before its gone because it could be tomorrow – just like your chance of getting that 25th set, there is no guarantee.

    I buy & sell coins on the Bay – I sell coins I no longer want sometimes for a profit & sometimes for a loss & I buy what I like or want at what I consider to be a fair prices – if the price is too high no one forces me to buy – its not like taxes. There are a few things I don’t like about eBay and I’m glad to see that one of them has been modified – restricting the practice of pre-selling. My impression is that it creates an opportunity for dishonesty, fraud, and disappointment. Sellers list things they may never get or maybe never even ordered – those who buy these pre-sales must really have faith if their fellow man. If you bought 5 sets for $2,5000. you’ve loaned the seller the money for a month & perhaps latter you acyually get the sets – or maybe in the monnth your waiting the going price of the sets goes up to $800. each – now the same capitalist seller who was making a quick $1,000. profit and investing with your money for a month thinks – wait a minute these 5 sets are now worth $4000. & sends you an e-mail “Sorry I did not get the sets from the mint & here is your money back”. Not saying all pre-sellers are bad, but thank you eBay for restricting pre-sales and reducing the opportunity for deception and dissapointment of unwary buyers. Based on some previous comments on this post I’m sure some disagree.

    Shut out twice by Perth Mint on Dragoms – their website can not take traffic either – but got lucky this tine & hope to get my 25th set.

  101. Louis says

    VA Bob,
    On a normal day the Mint gets a lot of orders (probably at least 1,000) plus remember prices were recently lowered on silver products like the burnished and proof eagles. With silver back up, collectors and dealer have probably been stocking up before prices go back up.
    Picturefun,
    I think you are right about US (and Chinese) dealers hoarding the dragons, but they are readily available now for $100. Even an MS70 is about $200. $400 coins are the proofs, which were originally $150 or so, and limited to 5,000 coins.
    But right now even dealers (at least the ones I know) have to pay $95 for the bullion coin, so it is probably worth spending $100 on one. They are actually reverse proofs and very nice.
    Happy collecting to all.
    To those who are put off by the discussions yet for some reason keep coming back, I think most people are trying to be constructive. This whole episode has clearly struck a chord with a lot of people. But I do agree we should try to stick to coins.

  102. says

    Rolling Thunder (cool moniker!), nail on the head re ebay. i’ve been buying and selling there for years and would advise new buyers and sellers to proceed with due caution. i’ve seen sellers with years of service and huge feedback numbers drop out of sight overnight. ebay does have a pretty good guarantee system going now but it’s better to avoid questionable sellers in the first place, and don’t take anything for granted.

  103. Chrome Dome says

    What average middle class citizen has $1,512 to make a purchase in this time of austerity? What average middle class citizen has the time to slug it out online for four hours to place an order. Not many if any. This whole thing (the rare coin distribution network) is part of the corpratocracy. If you buy direct from the Mint; you are simply a wholesale distributor – regardless of who you are. The Mint should stop direct marketing to the individual collector. This is what the dealers are for, this is what the coin shows are for, and this is what E-bay is for as well. Face it; the internet has changed everything. If you are a big time dealer or a small time private dealer – you just roll with it because you have the capital to make it work. If you are a private collector – you take a back seat and buy in the secondary market. The secondary market is pricy and there is a rhythm to the price swings. However, anything is better than dealing direct with the Mint, then the TPG companies, and the Post office. Maybe the Mint needs to open a couple of outlet stores. But one thing is for certain – there is nothing better than buying a completly perfect PR/MS 70 set graded without all the trouble. Just write a check and its freaking yours. How sweet can it be.

  104. Steve says

    Anyone that says that they’re a collector and ordered more than one set is full of it unless you plan to give them away as gifts. The only reason to purchase more than one of anything is to sell it later for a profit. That may be capitalism, but it’s also greedy when you grab more than you need, especially when you gets others to order for you and acquire more than five. You’re just part of the problem. You can justify it any way you want and lie to yourself, but you’re not a collector interested in the hobby of collecting.

    I still blame the Mint for not limiting these to one per household and producing enough to satisfy demand instead of creating a run on a product that does a disservice to the hobby.

  105. Peter says

    Don’t make a change in your profile if you want the mint’s website to work! I missed this issue even though ordered in the first hour – not happy!

  106. alan says

    i think one of the main reasons we had so many problems this particular time,this is the first time i have had 2 large dealers contact me about buying coins for them. Now lets think hard for a minute about this. MODERN COIN MART says he has 15,000 internet customers,money is tight during these days,so if only %10 of these people order for him thats another 1500 callers and internet people you did not have on previous sales from the mint.Then you have the other dealers that did this with people also.i have had trouble with the mints systems in the past ,but this is the wrost and i think all the extra greed from these big dealers have cause alot of the problems this time.Even as hot as the buffalo dollars were back in 2001 one I never had anyone contact me about buying for them.

  107. joe says

    My experience pre-ordering on eBay:

    Purchased a gold eagle from a reputable seller (very positive feedback) where many were ordering…nothing special. Month goes by and no coins. I contact the seller and he claims a “family funeral” and that he’ll have to ship them in a week. Week goes by and nothing. I go ahead and file claim with eBay to protect myself. Seller provides refund via PP and eBay cancels my case. Week goes by and refund doesn’t clear seller’s bank (he claims PP locked up his account there were so many claims against him), so I’m out a coin and eBay closed the case. I have to get on the phone with eBay (India) to explain. They say they will take care of it within a week. Another week goes by and nothing. I contact eBay again and they say they will take care of it again that day. Day goes by and nothing. I contact eBay again and they say they will take care of it that day again. Finally two days later I get a PP refund from eBay.

    Morals of the story:

    1) Avoid pre-sellers like the plague, even if they have stellar feedback.
    2) Never, never, never use eBay to open a case. Always, always, always use PP because one hand doesn’t know what the other hand is doing, and PP always wins.

  108. joe says

    To Alan’s point, I was contacted by Modern Coin Mart and APMEX. The last time I remember being contacted was for the 2009 UHR gold eagle. Frankly, both offers were insulting.

  109. Dan says

    Ok, blah, blah, blah; Lets start to put a value on these sets. I have one 95w in the set. The only two coins that have added value are Reverse Proof, San Francisco(s). The 20th Reverse Proof goes for a little over $200 in PR69 The 95w $2500+. I think the sets will settle around in at about $1000 after the flippers are done $400-$500 ea. for the two special coins and $150 for the others. Any other guesses?

  110. Dan says

    Oh I forgot I did get 5 sets @ 12:09. I am a collector; 2 sets are for my kids the other 3 for me. To the people that say you are not a collector if you ordered more than 1??? Would you order more than 1 of the 1995 gold proof sets? I think I would

  111. sam sparrow says

    Not sure if newer Tech would help? can’t get 50 people thru a single doorway without delays no matter what.. Got what i wanted using common sense & perseverance.

  112. G says

    Lucky to get through after 3.5 hours. It now says back ordered to 11/12.
    They’re going to need time to sort through the chaos I think! Better than the Perth experience with long distance redials to Australia and a month shipping (dragons are awesome and totally worth it- more coming on Perth Tuesday btw)
    enjoy all! I wouldn’t be surprised if it backordered all the way to December before it finally ships

  113. Vickievail says

    Thanks “Shutter” 10/28/2011 @7:52 pm; I did not realized that The Mint outsourced the Customer Service and the Fulfilment process. Excellent information!

    I did a quick search on PBGS and the US Mint and found the following info:

    “Customer service is outsourced to Pitney Bowes Government Solutions (PBGS), a wholly owned subsidiary of Pitney Bowes. Located in Plainfield, Ind., PBGS has had the contract since 2008, and provides customer service and order fulfillment service” reprinted from a Numismatic News article dated 3/25/2011.

    I also found a Press Release Announcement (interesting read)
    *******************************************************************************
    United States Mint Selects Pitney Bowes Government Solutions For CallCenter and Fulfillment Services

    WASHINGTON, November 18, 2008 – Pitney Bowes Government Solutions, Inc. (PBGS), a wholly owned subsidiary of Pitney Bowes Inc. (NYSE:PBI), has been selected by the United States Mint to provide call center and fulfillment operations services in support of the United States Mint€™s multi-channel retail sales program for numismatic products. As a bureau of the Department of the Treasury, the United States Mint designs, mints, sells and delivers quality numismatic collectible coin products.

    We are very pleased to be working with the United States Mint,€ said Jon Love, president, PBGS. €œOur ability to implement technology enhancements, coupled with our expertise in freight and shipping management, will help the United States Mint control costs and optimize business processes for its numismatic program.€

    Love noted that PBGS will receive and process nearly three million numismatic product orders per year at a dedicated fulfillment center in the mid-west.

    Pitney Bowes Government Solutions helps federal government agencies achieve their mission-critical objectives by delivering world-class mailstream services. Pitney Bowes Inc. is a mailstream technology company that helps organizations manage the flow of information, mail, documents and packages. Our 36,000 employees deliver technology, service and innovation to more than two million customers worldwide. The company was founded in 1920 and annual revenues now total $6.4 billion.
    More information is available at http://www.pb.com

  114. vaughnster says

    I think that once the Mint sorts through all the orders, a large number of people on the wait list will get their sets. With the super slow performance of the website, many people placed their orders multiple orders without realizing it. Not only that, many people will have incorrect or expired credit card info that will cancel the order. I placed an order at 5:47 p.m. and it had a ship date a day later than an order I placed around 12:30 p.m. Today, both orders have the same ship date. I wonder if the Mint will work through the weekend to keep sorting through the mess quicker or treating it as just a regular weekend with nothing being done until Monday………

  115. Shutter says

    It now says back ordered to 11/12.

    Two things. First, everyone’s order says “backordered”. It will continue to say that until either the order is cancelled or is ready to be shipped. Once it says “In stock and reserved” that means they are going to ship in a day or two. Second, I may not know much but I’d bet dollars to donuts the mint won’t ship anything on 11/12. They don’t ship on Saturdays. The “expected to ship” date will continue to increment and will stay 2 weeks out, until they are ready to ship. One fine day it will give you the ship days two weeks out and three days later UPS driver is knocking on your door. The date on the order tracking page is meaningless. Before this week, the Mint was saying that the coins would ship at the end of November. I’d be shocked, if they are shipped much before then.

    The good news is that the mint does not charge your card before they are ready to ship. They don’t even process temporary authorization ahead of time. That means that many orders will be cancelled due to failed credit card authorizations, Again, great news for folks on the waiting list. Everyone else, make sure your credit stays current and well under the credit limit.

  116. Samuel says

    I just can’t believe that this 25th set brought out so many people to post. In normal days I think only 20 or so.

  117. fosnock says

    Well I’m going to put my 2 cents into the mix. During the 2010 ATB bullion fiasco everyone was complaining that the mint should have bypassed the Authorized Purchasers (AP) and sold them directly. Now I see comments they they are no good and should not sell directly to the public, and private mints are the answer. How soon we forget the massive markups the Authorized Purchasers put on BULLION that they were contracted to sell as bullion. If people think private mints are the answer then why are they complaining APMEX and the other will soon have these coins on sale for their usual markups.

    I like some of the other posters here feel everyone had a shot. I feel bad for you but that is life. I bought 2 sets one at a time if I could do it so could anyone else.

  118. FLHeavyMetal says

    Quit belly aching. Has everyone gotten so accustomed to hand outs and entitlements they’ve forgotten what a free market is? Kudos for those who deployed their resources more effectively. I got my five sets as single orders. Yes, I do plan to sell four off for a profit. That’s how a free market works. The Mint’s Internet approach is the fairest to most people.

    Whether you collect, invest or flip coins, there is a monetary value in what you do. This is no different from saying you aren’t a homeowner if you purchase a home as your primary and expect to sell it for more than you paid or if you’ve purchased one to rent out or flip. Not a single person here buys coins with the expectation that they’ll lose their value.

    The past few years of bailouts and too big to fail have been a travesty for the free market. It has created this crazy entitlement attitude where everything must be free, fair and equal. Sorry,the truth is greed by default is tightly linked to Capitalism and there’s nothing wrong with it as long as the actions are legal. This is what has made our country great. It only goes bad when government and regulation interfere to make things equal and fair for all…folks, that’s called Socialism and we should all wear red if you want our country to head that direction!

    Like it or not, Capitalism is the best model out there and provides the fairest playing field for those who work hard and are the most creative. Anyone has a chance in a Capitalistic market.

    Quit bellyaching. The mint released this set fairly. If you didn’t get a set and don’t like it, do something different next time. If you are sympathizing with the Occupy Wall St folks, then you probably lack the understanding of what they should be complaining about as much as they don’t understand. It’s not the rich and successful that should be the target, it’s the people who are breaking the laws that should be held accountable.

    Capitalism Forever!

  119. ClevelandRocks says

    I’m also an optimistic wait-lister. I would hope if there is any issue with my credit card they would contact me for another card rather than immediately canceling my order..
    Anyone know what would happen if my card doesn’t go through? There have been times where my card has temporarily stopped working due to suspected fraud, even though it was just different purchases than my “normal” routine.

  120. Jerry Shearman says

    I feel sorry for amateur and young kids that collect coins purely for the enjoyment of the hobby . With all the greed in todays world to make a fast buck , what kind of chance do they have to purchase this product. I was luck , I got thru to the mint and was able to buy ONE set. I guess there are collectors , and there are just turners.

  121. Clair Hardesty says

    I have a Track Order history dating back to July 25, 2000 (order #4,275,XXX) and from then through January 22, 2009 (when I began keeping very detailed records because of the URHDE SANFUs) the mint averaged 8556 orders per day. That dropped to an average of about 7800 for 2009, to about 7200 for 2010, and to about 6700 this year up to Wednesday. For the three months leading up to Thursday the average numbers of orders per day dropped all the way to about 4000 and to a little over 3000 for just the previous month. Up until early 2009, when PBGS took over fulfillment from whoever the previous contractor was (fulfillment has been contracted out at least as long as there has been a website) that 8556 number was very constant, with only minor bumps in the curve for popular products. Clearly while the economy has had an impact, the poor performance of PBGS has had a significant impact on customer satisfaction and has driven customers away. I blame the mint for keeping a contractor that has done such a poor job, especially it was apparently the claim of poor performance (that I never saw) that caused them to terminate the previous contract early.

    The mint has already announced that a new computer system will be installed next year but I doubt that will solve anything. Even if every click had resulted in a page load, little would change and even a one set limit wouldn’t keep those who were trying to acquire many times the limit from doing so. I actually believe that a vastly faster system will favor the dealers (institutional and individual) because those with high power ordering schemes would be able to overpower individual collectors. On Thursday, had an unlimited system been in place, the sellout would have occurred in a few minutes, leaving virtually every single set order placer without joy. I think that unless the mint comes with some way to limit the number of orders taken in a given time period that it won’t be long before we can only get popular offerings from the secondary marketplace. I don’t think that the 100,000 set production limit was a bad idea, even in retrospect. I like that at least some of the mint’s special issues are in limited quantities that actually sell out. These sets will never be rare or even scarce, only unique. I would like to see something done to ensure that the playing field stays as level as possible but I don’t subscribe to the notion that equal is fair or that equal opportunity must lead to equal results. I do have a few suggestions as to how we might maintain (or restore) equal opportunity when a vastly improved (maybe) system comes on line. All popular products (the mint should be able to figure out which products qualify) no matter what the household limit is set at should have a one unit per order clause, forcing those trying to acquire many units to place many orders. There should be some sort of limit on the number of orders that are taken in any given time period. Perhaps orders could be accepted but not assigned an order number (and therefore a place in line) and then every minute (or other period as appropriate) the first xxx orders are randomized and assigned numbers. Excess orders would carry over into the next period and … For a product like this set, it should take at least 24 hours to assign all available product to orders, allowing those with work schedules a better chance to participate but still giving an edge to those who order first. I want the mint to put a high priority on sales to individuals, the volume dealers already have the bullion coins, a virtual give away, to profit from. The mint barely breaks even on bullion production, acting as a captive supplier to the APs. Numismatic products are produced for collectors (and no matter what some may think, proof and uncirculated Eagles are not bullion coins) and should be sold as directly to collectors as is possible. I do not want to see a system that takes orders for a time and then produces to fill those orders. Many of the numismatic products are already open ended and that is fine but I also want products like this one that are minted, packaged, stocked, and then offered for sale in an as equitable manner as is possible. I think that with the implementation of an improved system that the mint should take steps to prevent programmed ordering (the type what you see approach seems to work), to minimize the advantage of volume buyers (one unit per order, etc.), and to minimize the affect of the quality of one’s internet connection, geographical location, etc. on the ability to place a valid order. Equal is not fair and fair is not equal but equal opportunity should be a goal that is genuinely sought.

    I got all five sets that I wanted (one at a time because I want individually sealed sets) and I think that the system overload actually helped provide individual opportunity but I want to see a system implemented that reaches the goal of equal opportunity by design, not by chance.

  122. says

    Samuel,

    This topic aroused some very strong feelings (much like the AtB bullion coins did when they were released late last year). I think people are going to be mentioning this topic for months, until the next “big thing” comes along anyway.

  123. LD says

    At 4:01PM I was able to place an order for 2 sets. At 6:45PM I placed another order for 1 set. As of late last night the expected ship dates were 11/11 and 11/12 repectively. This morning the ship dates were changed to 11/12 and 11/13. Someone must be working.
    Still in the race I guess.

  124. EvilFlipper says

    @dan,
    That’s my exact estimate as well. Dont flip em right away. Im sending all mine in to be graded. It’ll cost 700 but i would really love to keep an MS70 set for myself! It’ll take some time for full profits to be put in so wait. The only thing working against time will be world economic collapse. If that happens make sure you’re in cash(Sell uwanted or unneeded coins quickly or have some cash available) and wait for the bottom on collectible coins. Thats assuming the collapse is deflationary rather than hyperinflationary. If its hyper anything but cash will do. This could go either way. In any event, i really think the mint had nothing much to offer this year. The coins I’m keeping my eye on are this set and the gold burnished eagle for this year. Other than that not much else. These type’s of events are a bit infrequent and unpredictable. The Mint has a hard enough time just keeping up with regular bullion and this set was a gamble for them because its tough to guage the markef in coins right now as is. And anyone who thinks that flippers are just people with loads of cash just sittin around to make people pay i just worked three weeks straight to make money available to do this. You wanna make like work to your Advantage than you gotta bust yer ass! Be nimble and be able to adapt to any collecting climate for whatever its worth and make opportunity work for you. Thats life’s lesson in society, nature, politics and economics.

    I’ve said my two cents mike and I wont say anymore- just coins from here on out Mike!!;)

  125. says

    Clair,

    I think the more critical issue is the time when the new products are released. Who says everything has to be released at noon? To steal from my own post:

    “I think a better solution would be to fix the web traffic problem, hire temp personnel, and release products around 6 or 7 pm EST. This way you have people home from work rather than stuck hoping that a noon release would not be sold out while they could not access a phone or computer. While a sellout would occur more quickly for a smooth ordering system, everyone who was ready to go would immediately be able to get their coins with few issues. I do understand that no system is perfect and that there may still be unlucky collectors who miss their chance to get the coins, but I believe this is the best way to ensure the maximum number of dedicated collectors get their coins. I think this also will reduce the pool of people desperate enough to pay hiked premiums from the flippers and dealers.”

    While I think my suggestion is not perfect, it would be vastly better than the current “fight your way through the DDoS” system. The most ardent collectors would be able to snap up their copies right away as long as they were ready to go when the product was released. It would cut out the five hour long “battles” as well.

  126. simon says

    I have doubts that faster servers would solve anything – the real bottleneck is the limited access speed over data lines, and the multiplicity of schemes. That said, given the circumstances, the Mint handled the situation very well. I have absolutely no issues with the limited mintage or the 5-set limit. Just keep in mind that dealers such as mcm, apmex, etc. stirred up the profit pot by offering chintzy markups for sealed sets sent to them by naive mint customers. Their online supporters in many of the coin forums were issuing tacit approval by providing assurances of the profit from these outfits to such victims. I would also wager that almost all of these supporters will NOT sell their coins to said dealers but will have them graded by TPGs to keep charity at home. If 2000 naive individuals fell for this cheap charade and purchased 5 sets each that is 10% of the total availability. MCM alone was counting on a minimum of 1500 sets. This is something that the mint – try as they may – can do absolutely nothing about. The bottom line is that there are fewer collectors who may be satisfied with just a single set in OGP versus the many flippers who care about “first strike” type labels and instant profit. As a collector I am more interested in holding an original piece of artistic history in my hands and admiring the coin rather than looking at the label with an approving grunt about profit.

  127. Clair Hardesty says

    I agree that the noon release is far less than equitable. I also agree that producing to meet all demand would virtually eliminate huge profiteering by any and all. On the other hand, I don’t really have a problem with the mint producing the occasional offering that allows people to reap a nice stipend from their purchase. Things like this add some flair and even excitement to collecting moderns and I like it. I don’t want to implement more controls than are needed to ensure equal opportunity but I want enough to prevent volume programmed buyers from shutting individuals out. No solution will be perfect and no solution will be to everyone’s liking but I think there is a problem and I think there is a solution. In the end, the produce to meet demand method (which is what the mint is required to do in the bullion offerings) would be the simplest, most fair system to satisfy those who wish to enjoy modern coin collections.

  128. vaughnster says

    “Anyone know what would happen if my card doesn’t go through? There have been times where my card has temporarily stopped working due to suspected fraud, even though it was just different purchases than my “normal” routine”

    ClevelandRocks–

    If there is any issue with your credit card information or status the Mint will send you an e-mail stating your order is cancelled. They will not notify you about the problem first. I would make sure all info is up to date in your Mint account. Obviously you won’t be able to re-order this set.

  129. says

    “Bob says:

    October 28, 2011 at 10:52 pm

    To BT and others: Please stop the political commentary!

    I hear enough of this crap on every other site I visit on a daily basis. Can we please just discuss coins.”

    Well said Bob!!! Second that motion.

    nightowl

  130. alan says

    i agree with Simon,not only that but i would rather look at something in the orginal box + the coins,plus a coin dealer told me that the orginal stuff keeps getting harder to find ,because people send everything in to be graded.

  131. jon says

    There seems to be a battle on eb right now between the flippers and eb. eb has cancelled many listings but the flippers continue to put up new ones. if anything it seems to be driving the prices of these coins up.

  132. Jake says

    I called the Mint’s headquarters line yesterday Telephone: (202) 756-6468. They stated that they are thinking about cutting everyone’s order down to 2 or 3 sets to allow more fair distribution.

    Did anyone else hear this?

  133. florida_grouch says

    It certainly was an experience just to get through once, which I did in time. However the experience has left me with a question. Will the mint rearrange my shipping to ship the sets out seperately without canceling my order if I request them to do so, expecting to pay the individual shipping charges?

    At the present time I’m keeping the sets for myself, but who knows what the future will bring.

  134. DNA says

    they are thinking about cutting everyone’s order down to 2 or 3 sets to allow more fair distribution.
    They can’t do this, it would make too much sense.

  135. David says

    I really wish that people would stop calling the Mint to complain.

    Some coin collectors are all about the “free market” until they get shut out of a hot issue. Then they quickly become socialists, demanding that the government be fair and hand out sets equitably so that everyone that missed out can get one. How hypocritical.

    If you didn’t have the proper planning, intelligence, computer access, fortitude, luck, etc., to get a set, too bad … that’s the way the free market works. If you don’t like it, get a different hobby that doesn’t cause you so much stress. And don’t ruin things for the rest of us!

  136. Clair Hardesty says

    They are not going to do anything like that now. It appears that they have already been cutting the waiting list down and if they started changing orders, they could easily push out past the list. They will make sure that all orders they complete are correct and that no one violates the 5 per household limit. That means that they will check for duplicate addresses with different names and credit cards, that no one CC was used for more than five sets, and everything else they can do to make sure that the rules were followed. They will not change the household limit or the mintage after the fact. All that said, it would not surprise me if around 10% of sets originally ordered before the waiting list end up being invalid, fail to clear CC, or are actually cancelled. They know their history of such things and will keep enough orders on the waiting list to cover. Unfortunately if you are on the waiting list you may not know for sure that you won’t get a set until after the last set is shipped and the return period expires. Changing orders taken under the stated policy would not be “more fair” it would be different and a clear breach of trust, if not contract. For those hoping they will mint more sets, there probably isn’t enough time left in the year to make that happen even if they wanted to. They would have to make more die for the two unique coins, get all of the coins minted and encapsulated, have more boxes built, etc. Again, to do that would also be a breach of trust. Remember, even in the fiasco on the introduction of the bullion ATBs, they did no such thing to be more fair. They only did what they needed to do to stop the APs from committing a serious breach of their existing contracts.

  137. joe says

    Based on mintage of this offer and historical prices and mintage of the 1995W set, I project one set will ultimately (perhaps a few years down the road) settle out at around $1K. JMO.

  138. Two Cents says

    To ClevelandRocks [Oct. 29 @ 11:01 am],

    vaughnster is correct. Unless the Mint has changed the way they handle things, they will NOT contact you if they have any problem with your credit card (or any other issue). The result is a cancellation. I remember seeing somewhere that they will attempt to charge your credit card at least two times before cancelling the order.

    And a clarification on the Mint’s first-in, first-served policy. This does not apply if there are problems with the order, such as they are unable to quickly verify the credit card or address or household limit (especially multiple orders). In those cases, the order will be pulled from the queue, and the next order moves up the list. When the problem is resolved, the pulled order is put back into the queue, next in line (not in the original position and not at the end of the line). If the problem is not resolved, the order is cancelled. The Mint will not contact you for resolution.

  139. joan says

    since i ordered 5 seperate single sets (over the phone) ..i called my credit card company and informed them to expect 5 separate charges of $304.90 witin the next week or two…..they said no problem, that they would flag it on my account….said it stays flagged for 30 days.

  140. Steve says

    To all those who want this coin set, relax, it will be available to those who wait. 100k mintage is big number. It won’t be melted down, or used in circulation. After this initial rush of everyone wanting to get this set, the bloom will come off the rose, and the herd mentality will chase after the next shiny object. It is not rare and multiples of this set will be for sale at coin shows for years and years to come. If the price of silver never budged from its current price 5 years from now, this set would sell for about the same price it is at now or less. Patience is needed by all.

  141. TomP says

    Sorry, off subject. The Mary Todd Lincoln F.S. proof went to a delivery date of 11/13/11. The other F.S. coins did not. Is this a precursor of a slightly early sell-off?

  142. Wylson says

    Mary Todd is toast. Give it a week. Great heads up, maybe I’ll get one. Oh s#*t I’m tapped out.

  143. Rob says

    Completed listing on ebay does not actually mean that it finished at that price. people can cancel because they bid wrong. or they get it cheaper then cancel the higher one.

  144. deke says

    Hello All,

    If I get a Your order request is on hold and Expected to ship on 11/13/2011 message. I thought I was on the wait list, so what does this mean? What’s going on here? Thanks

  145. John says

    I think the one problem with these sets were those who ordered one set at a time when they could have just ordered five at once. Think about it, you get your five then you log off making room for the next guy or gal to try to get their set(s).

    But many people got one, then place order two, three…. making it take five times longer. I ordered my five at once.

  146. Ron says

    Grandpa Dave,
    Don’t get to excited yet, my daughter got a confirmation time 4:40pm order # 3837XXXX. She got a cancellation e-mail 10/28/11, they told her to resubmit. I got a confirmation # 3837XXXX time 4:24, so far so good. Now for another issue with the Mint, has anyone else had problems with the America the Beautiful 5oz., of the 6, I have bought I have sent 4 back because of scratches, bubble on Washington’s nose or stain. I did get replacements and they were fine but I wonder if they sent those out again and if you don’t open it you won’t know until it is to late.

  147. Clair Hardesty says

    From everything I have read or seen, Thursday’s event was as close to a lottery for the available sets as is possible without actually having one, which is simply not how the mint operates. There does not appear to have any “magic bullet” for getting an order through, either by phone or on the web. The web system SNAFU prevented any kind of programmed buying from occurring and in the end whether you got a valid order in or not was the luck of the draw. If the mintage had been significantly higher, odds are that many of the buyers would not have shown up, at least not the ones that are planning to resell soon at large premiums. Perhaps the mint should eliminate mintage limits so that collectors can always get items directly from the mint, but doing so would change the nature of the collecting of modern coins quite a bit.

  148. Hidalgo says

    The US Mint should have placed an order of one set per mailing address. That would prevent the hysteria created by the flippers we saw earlier this week…..

  149. vaughnster says

    “The flippers are out in full force on eBay.”

    Both of the above mentioned eBay auctions were taken down. They will not permit any presales on this set until they are in hand. Believe me because I tried and they took it down. It may take a few days, but they are vigilant. They are aware of the mad rush and some uncertainty of getting these sets from the Mint.

  150. Clair Hardesty says

    It looks like EBay sellers are putting their coins back up as fast as EBay is taking them down. I wonder how many are ignoring the directive and how many are ones that haven’t been told yet. Some might end up with some sort of sanction if they persist. I am amazed at how many of them actually believe the “expected ship date” from the mint, they quote it as if it is set in stone. Those of us that routinely purchase mint products know that those dates are utterly meaningless.

  151. vaughnster says

    Clair–

    This is what eBay sends to pre-sellers:

    We’re pleased to have you as part of the eBay Community. However, the following listing(s) were removed and all fees have been credited to your account:

    330633179556 – 2011 AMERICAN EAGLE 25TH ANNIVERSARY SET SEALED!!!

    Because the 2011 25TH SILVER EAGLE ANNIVERSARY SET is in such high demand, requirements have been put in place for 2011 25TH SILVER EAGLE ANNIVERSARY SET sales. It has been reported that the MINT sold out of these within 5 hours. We understand that some sellers on eBay could have potentially placed their order in time, however we request that these coins are not listed unless they are in the physical possession of the seller. The strict requirement of not listing the item until you have it in your possession also applies to sellers with confirmed orders. Please wait until the Anniversary set is in your physical possession before listing it for sale.
    We also suggest the following:

    – The listing needs to include a unique photo of the item or items, and your User ID needs to be clearly shown in the picture (watermarks will not be accepted).

    – To ensure buyer protection, PayPal needs to be the only accepted form of payment.

    We understand that you may not have known about these requirements. However, please note that future violations may result in a range of actions, including listing cancellation, limits on account privileges, account suspension, forfeiture of eBay fees on canceled listings, and loss of PowerSeller status.

    Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.

    Sincerely,

    eBay Trust & Safety team

  152. alan says

    You guys are just wishing. The mint is not going to change the order policy now. I know its not fair the way they did things but their not going to take away the 5 sets some people already ordered. Everyone had the same chance,sopmetimes you get the coins .sometime they get you

  153. vaughnster says

    Alan–

    Were you able to order your sets? How many are going to Modern Coin Mart? (just kidding) I can’t wait to see these beauties soon!

  154. Hidalgo says

    The US Mint raised $29.9 million dollars from the sale of 100,000 ASE sets at $299 each. Wow. If you subtract the cost of 5 ounces of silver at $35 per ounce ($175 for each set), then the US Mint earned $12.4 million in profit (excludes overhead costs, e.g.g, labor, energy, etc.).

    Not bad…. One way of reducing the Federal deficit!

  155. Broooster says

    The Mint should have, The mint could have, The Mint didn’t, and now it’s over. Is it really necessary to keep hashing over what could have and should have??? Now we sit back and wait to see who gets what and the quality of these bad boys.

  156. mac says

    Don’t give up hope. I was just reading on a silver site from canada, about people claiming to be ordering 15 -20 sets at a time. Hopefully their full orders will be cancelled. Don’t know if I can say the site, so I won’t, it is a co and it starts with kit. Like I said these are people claiming that they ordered 15- 20 sets and they got a normal receipt. Gives some of the rest of us hope.

  157. J pay says

    everyone hold on i just talked with a very nice lady at mint she said that just as some here have speculated that severs and orders was overloaded and some was sold 20 sets they are holding all and making sure only 5 goes to any 1 address and if more than 1 duplacate order was made and it looked ligitamite duplacate it will be placed on long hold till they sort it out all sets just got pushed back to the 12th and will most likly be a few more days as as she said a total mess but the way she talked they was going to try to do the right thing i suggested to send any legitamite order out and she said it was very hard to tell as some who got in on time and by rules actully made another order which will be kicked out i told her when mine was placed at 5:02 and she said that she cant make any promisies but if all was correct and i didnt dup a order i would most likly get mine in other words duplacate orders well????? i dont know if they will get any till the ones who did right gets theres but as i said it was a MESS!!!!!

  158. mac says

    Just looked on ebay. Over 300 auctions on presell. 1-5 each. some saying money back, all say they have an order #. When Dad & I was talking about it when the mint set the order limit and read about all the big boys offering a bounty for them. We Knew. Should have been a max of 1 – 2.

  159. vaughnster says

    Most of the Mint’s phone representatives are clueless as to what is actually going on. They barely know about their own products for sale. Brooster has it right….let’s see who gets what and when. First thing every morning I’ll be checking on my tracking info.

  160. Konde says

    Really hard to understand some posting here. Would you please take a little time and re-read your comments before posting. Thank you

  161. alan says

    Vaughnster I ordered 3 sets one for myself and 2 of my friends that was working and could’nt get anywhere to order.But i can almost bet you my three sets i will get them,because the mint won’t change their policy,can not believe some guys would even think that

  162. Clair Hardesty says

    The thing that you have to remember is that no one has actually been sold anything yet. The mint will do everything they can to avoid sending more than five sets to what they define as a single household. They will look for multi CCs and/or names to the same address (addresses are standardized and verified so misspellings or other attempts to disguise them don’t work). They will also look for one CC being used on more than five sets and any other indication of a violation of the policy. It is possible that some such things get through but it won’t be because the mint didn’t try to weed them out. They will not penalize anyone for ordering more than five sets, they will just cancel any order that takes you over five sets because they know that mistakes are made and that the system SNAFUs play a role. They will probably either honor or cancel entire orders so if you placed two orders for three sets each (deliberately or by accident), one order will probably be cancelled and you will get three sets, not five. They will probably start shipping once enough orders are cleared to allow efficient shipping and then the CC will be charged and CC failure will result in order cancellation. The mint does not call to find out if you want to try another card so if you think there is going to be a problem either call the mint and give them another card or call your CC company and make sure that the sale will go through.

  163. Bob says

    I placed two separate orders for the set. One at approx 2:30 Eastern and the other at 6:12 Eastern. The second order obviously is wait-list. Looking at my Order Summary on the Mint’s site, the second order has the ORDER DATE line filled with the time I placed my order. The first order has no information there.

    Just curious if anybody on the wire for getting their order in on time can could confirm if they have info in their ORDER DATE line or not?

  164. RSF says

    Clair,
    I enjoy your analysis and logic, but as I see it, the only way for the mint to avoid this type of mad scramble is to remove our knowledge of where the finish line is. If we hadn’t known FOR SURE that this was going to be a rarity, the profiteers among us would have made different calculations and tempered their schemes accordingly.

    The mint doesn’t always announce a maximum mintage for a product, and they’ve been incredibly good at keeping it secret if they want to. If they had just not announced the max mintage, there would have certainly been a flury of initial orders for this very desireable set, but we’d probably all have gotten our orders in by now and we’d be posting our guesses on when the sellout will occur and when they’ll be shipped. We’d probably just be approaching the 100,000 point now. No collector would have an excuse for missing the boat and the profiteers would have to take some risk instead of just figuring out how to game the system.

  165. TheCoinKeeper says

    For those sending their set(s) in for grading.. NGC or PCGS and why?

    I’m thinking NGC. All 5 coins would have the same 25th label. Not sure how PCGS will handle First Strikes for the set. All 5 or just 2? Havent talked to them.

    Also, I saw a 70 set from NGC for the 20th set. All 3 were in the same holder. Did they just do that on their own when the coins were initially graded?

    http://bit.ly/seyggS

  166. says

    On the issue of the Mint not changing peoples’ orders, don’t be so certain guys. Remember that they’ve done it once before in regards to the AtB bullion coin fiasco (though I will be the first to admit that the circumstances are somewhat different). You know the people at the Mint are probably reading threads like this one and getting an earful from furious customers over the phone. There has to be at least some discussion going on there of altering the policy or the maximum permitted numbers.

    We won’t really know until the first shipping notices go out. Keep your fingers crossed that they don’t make a bad situation worse.

  167. Clair Hardesty says

    Bob, all five of my orders have the date & time info, from 12:14 to 2:10. I wouldn’t read anything into some missing info at this point but if you are concerned give them a call and verify the validity of your order.

    RSF, I wouldn’t mind a system like that at all. Anything that improves the odds for people who stay inside the order limits over those who circumvent the intent of the order limits works for me. We already give businesses carte-blanche with the bullion give away and the numismatic product division does not exist to provide any of us with free money. Taking steps to give speculators pause is OK by me. This sale appears to be a sure thing and has looked that way since the terms were announced. I don’t ever feel like I am taking a risk when I buy coins for my collection, even when the price seems high (because it’s not a profit driven enterprise), but if I was buying to make a quick buck I would have to consider the risks of failure. In this sale the risk was near zero, not at all where it ought to be.

  168. fosnock says

    To ClevelandRocks [Oct. 29 @ 11:01 am],

    If your in doubt about your account order something from the mint and make sure it goes through, or call the mint and verify. You got me nervous as I just updated my credit card info so I placed an order for some items I was going to get later. In this manner I just verified my account information.

  169. Clair Hardesty says

    CO, the AtB bullion thing was an issue of the APs violating the terms of their contract with the mint, not any attempt to make sales fair. When it became clear that some APs were operating (or at least were going to be) in violation of their contracts, the mint took steps it felt were needed to correct the situation. The APs were given terms of sale that the mint would consider OK and if they did not follow them then their ability to purchase from the mint was at risk.

    You are right about the fact that we will not know who gets what until it happens, the mint has always reserved the right to press the giant reset button. I just think it takes something far more systemic than complaints to trigger that action. If there was evidence of massive fraud or other illegal activity such action would probably be justified.

  170. Shawn says

    For what it’s worth, earlier this year I bought an ATB 5 oz with my stored CC, not realizing it had expired. The Mint sent me an email and gave me 7 days to call with a new CC, which I did. Not sure if that is their policy that applies to everything.

  171. Alex says

    to CaptainOverkill;

    I hope that you are right. I also hope that more people will call in and complain about it. Maybe the mint might limit it down to 1 to 3 set limit.

    Also, ebay has gone CRAZY. People are bidding over $1,000 on some. I think they will just cancel once they see the average price of around $600 to $700 right now. If I am unable to get one set from the mint, I will never buy it for more than $475. It’s all about honor. The mint was wrong on their limit, and I will not pay for it by buying somethings that over priced.

  172. pl.mark says

    We are all forgetting one important thing. Only the mintage limit is set in stone, not the householfd limit. Here is what the actual wording is from the mint’s website:

    The United States Mint reserves the right to limit quantities and may discontinue accepting orders at any time.

    The United States Mint reserves the right to accept or reject coin orders in any combination or option(s) it determines to be in its best interest.

  173. Shawn says

    One solution would be for the Mint to take all orders for a specific period of time, like 24-48 hours. The they hold a lottery among the orders placed up to the mintage.

  174. says

    Keep in mind I’m not ADVOCATING the Mint changing the policy, guys, just warning it’s an outside possibility. And Clair, I do agree with most of your comments in regards to the relative unlikelihood, but Mint policy is sometimes very incoherent as Michael pointed out in this post.

  175. Clair Hardesty says

    A lottery isn’t really any different than what already happened on Thursday. All indications are that whether you got an order placed early enough to get a set or not was a random occurrence. Any solution should address the core “problem” and if any problem actually exists, it is the fact that mintage limits exist at all. The solution to that is to mint coins until demand wanes and make it clear that there will never be a case where supply falls short of supply again. this will of course put an end to profiteering on modern issues no matter how popular they may be. Other than the time of day that the sale starts, I don’t see anything about Thursday’s sale that favored any one group over another and shifting the time would only change who was at a disadvantage because of work, not eliminate the time of day issue. The lottery notion is wrong for many reasons the main one being that if the mint knows that there is going to be a need for a lottery then the solution is not to schedule one, the solution is to increase the mintage to the point where a lottery is not needed. Do I think that there should be some sort of randomizer in place if mintage limits are going to continue and occasionally be set to a number that results in significant value increases? Yes, but Thursday’s sale had a randomizer and it was the overloaded phone and web ordering systems. They also prevented programmed buying, something that I fear may become a significant reality once the mint improves their internet order taking capacity. At a minimum I think that the mint should use the available technology to make sure that a human being is doing the ordering so that companies cannot simply use the mint accounts of hundreds or thousands of employees and contractors to have a computer blast orders to the mint as soon as sales open. If these system SNAFUs did not happen on these popular products, I am sure that we would have already seen programmed buying on a large scale and this set would have sold out in a matter of minutes with virtually set ultimately going to a handful of large buyers.

  176. Clair Hardesty says

    Supply always exactly equals supply, doesn’t it. I read “supply falls short of supply” several times and did not notice that I should have said “supply falls short of demand”. Sorry.

  177. LD says

    The expected ship date status has changed 2 time just today on my two orders. One is a wait list order. Now both of the orders are listed show expected ship date of 11/13.

  178. Zwiggy says

    Just imagine if the Mint made 100,000 sets – But did NOT mention it.

    Instead they would have simply said that the sets would be available on Oct 27th. I bet without a declared mintage limit, it would have taken atleast a month to get to 100,000 sets, by which time anyone who wanted 1/2/3/… would have obtained theirs.

    The price on eBay would have gone crazy only after the sellout was announced.

  179. Chrome Dome says

    There is a whole lot of complaining going on here. Yet, I am so great-full that the Mint actually produced a low mintage set of ASE coins that are worth holding on to for a lifetime. I’m taking mine to my grave.

  180. Clair Hardesty says

    LD, the expected ship date has no meaning. It is just a programmed number, in our case, two weeks from today. It will increment roughly every day then suddenly change to “in stock and reserved”. About the same time that happens, the cancel button will go away. It is at this point that you can start to watch your CC for the charge to hit, which usually happens a few days prior to actually shipping. Then a UPS tracking number will show up but it may not work for a day or two because sometimes they don’t hand off to UPS for a time. Once the number is valid at UPS, your package will arrive the next business day.

  181. says

    I had ordered 5 single sets at over the phone at 2 PM then talked with a family member at 3PM who wanted me to get another 5 sets ,I got through on line at 3:30 and ordered 5 more single sets(one at a time) and finished last order at 4:15 #3837XXXX, I guess I got real lucky,but it took time to do both.I plan on holding these for my IRA and break them out in 15 or 20 years in sealed mint boxes,it’s a gamble but I’ll take my chances. As far as the shipping date ,you have a better chance of seeing GOD than these sets being shipped 11/11/11.I just checked US mint sight on 2nd set of 5 and expected ship date is 11/13/11 any one else have that?

  182. Drew says

    Come on. Are people really paying this? There were two auctions which ended like this at about the same time. Who on Earth is paying $1500 for these sets?

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/130593864089?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

    On a side note. What are your thoughts on where this set will settle in the next couple years? The 20th anniversary silver sets got upwards of $600 a piece then seemed to settle at ~$300. That is still not bad for a set that cost $100.

  183. John says

    A follow up to my earlier post:

    John says:
    October 29, 2011 at 4:13 pm

    “…..I think the one problem with these sets were those who ordered one set at a time when they could have just ordered five at once. Think about it, you get your five then you log off making room for the next guy or gal to try to get their set(s).”

    I also think a faster sell out would have happen if people just order the five one time (or the mint had faster servers). I think around 16K orders were placed in the 1st hour. If the average sale was 3 units then around 48k would have been sold by 1pm.

    I like the idea about not publishing final mintage numbers in advance this would have eliminated a lot of flippers even with the 5 per household limit. If I saw “5 per household” with no final production numbers my first thought would be “they’re going to probably make a lot of these, maybe the same amount as 2006”. I don’t think the mint ever quoted a final number of 2009 UHR and look how long the mint made them, all year.

    If you didn’t get a set all you have to do is wait a for the buzz to die, yes it will be long (2+ years) but there will be 100K floating around for a long time. Some will be slabbed and some in the OGP but they will be preserved. As Louis said earlier, find a rare Morgan or a coin that may a population of a few hundred not many thousands. Who knows maybe you could flip it down the road to pay for the set you missed out on. I personally have increased my collection by doing this. Buy something I like then sell it when I find something I like more or couldn’t afford at the time.

  184. Paul H says

    I am sure that the US mint wants to get them sold as fast as possible. During the time the Anniversary sets are on all sales of there other products are interupted.
    I placed my order at 5 PM . it stated the product is backordered and that it will be sent on 11/11/2011
    I would never attempt a presale on eBay for anything. I understand that they command a higher price that way but it really is not my speed. I sell what i have and can ship fast. It seems to me like it would be too easy for someone to cancel and stick me with refunding the money for a product i cannot ship because they have found a better deal or just decided not to wait. i am sure preselling is not all Peaches & Cream !
    If for any reason I do not recieve my 5 sets I will not pay a higher secondary market price for these coins . fact is they are really not that rare just alot of hype now but in 4 years after silver pulls back to 20 an ounce these sets will be abundant.there will be some new HOT release…lol and these will be just another coin set . the 1995 w will remain the king of the eagles and rightfully so.
    I lost my shirt on the graded 2006 Anniversary sets- dont loose yours!
    stick with the KNOWN to be truley rare KEY dates.
    these are little more than a commemorative and we all know what they are worth! NOT MUCH

  185. Hidalgo says

    It used to be that any coin with a mintage of 100,000 (like the 2011 – S silver eagle) would be worth a bundle. But as folks here have said, lower mintages may now be a “new normal” so that even a mintage of 100,000 is not so rare.

    Demand will play a big role in a coin’s current value. I am not so optimistic that the First Spouse gold coins will command significant mark ups (e.g., 5 to 10 times) of their purchase price. None have so far, not even Julia Tyler. Yeah, you might see double or triple, but not more than 5 times.

    What happened to the good ole days when you could find a penny, nickel, dime, etc. in change and get a significant premium from your find? Them days are long gone I presume. I don’t know of any recent (2000s and beyond) regular-strike coins that have gotten the attention of collectors like the 1972 double die penny, 1982 no P dime, 1995 double die obverse penny, etc.

  186. Broooster says

    Hidalgo,
    The mintage of 100,000 may sound like a lot, BUT you are forgetting one thing, the ASE is probably one of the most widely collected coins of all time. And there are TWO low mintage coins in this set. Oh ya, this set will hold its value, and it may not be “rare” as you put it, but it will be pricey. And just because they made 100,000 sets, don’t think 100,000 sets will be on the market. People that bought 5 sets, I would imagine that a lot of them ARE NOT flippers or E-Bayers. I ordered 5 sets myself, only 2 of those will be for sale down the road. All those Pre-sales will be gone soon, then the real bidding will begin. We will see what happens.

  187. Clair Hardesty says

    HIdalgo, you are absolutely right about modern rarities Aside from a few prominent errors, no modern coin is or probably ever will be rare (at least not for the next few hundred years). Modern mintages of a few thousand high quality coins are not likely to ever get reduced to the handful of specimens that define true rarities. Also, with moderns, mintage has basically a secondary role in value determination. Market availability vs. demand is far more important than mintage for value purposes. While demand for this 25th anniversary set is sky high right now, it is not known how much of that demand is from collectors and how much is from resellers looking to make short term profit. A good example of the outcome of this effect is the 2001 Buffalo dollars vs. the 2006 Franklin dollars. Both have essentially the same mintage, both were quick sellouts, and both had high initial resale prices. Today, the 2001 coins continue to demand very strong prices while the Franklins have fallen to be just average commemorative dollars. The difference is the number of coins being held in collections vs. the number circulating in the marketplace, flavored with (and probably partly driven by) the timeless popularity of the Native American/Buffalo design. The 2011 Eagle set has that same design attractiveness but right now, it looks to me like a large number of the sets are destined to be delivered to resellers. Only time will tell what the true collector demand is for these sets and that number, played against the 100,000 mintage, will have a major influence on long term value. Of course, for the artificial rarities created by the TPGs with special labels and grading hype there will be some crazy prices paid for some individual coins. For reasons not understood at all by me, 2006 uncirculated W mint mark Eagles from the anniversary set, slabbed by PGCS and graded MS70 are selling for right around $1000 today. At Heritage, the highest price paid for such an anniversary set coin is $2300 while the highest price paid for a virtually identical coin without the 20th Anniversary Set label is $345.

  188. Soapy says

    How about te US Mint just make the offer of just ONE anniversary set available only to those who SUBSRIBE to the annual SAE’s. They are the most loyal customers anyway, and doubled/or more CC’s or households are not an issue. I have to believe that the number of individual SAE subscribers list runs into the tens of thousands of customers. Make this policy change and the subscriber list would actually increase. All those subscribers would be able to actually work or be productive for those 5 or 6 hours instead of mindlessly re-dialing or enduring the frustration of a crawling website. On that topic, I wonder how many hundred thousand work hours were lost Thursday as a result of this frenzy. (got my order for one set confirmed at 2:06)

  189. J pay says

    i ordered 2 sets together and 3 sets singled out the 2 are to put with my complete proof sets and my mint complete sets the other 3 are for my grandkids down the road NO FLIPPING HERE if anything i would find another collector that missed out and make there day just think that coin dealers was the worst thing that happened here but thats my .02 worth the mint will sort this out and anyone who made more than 5 set orders will be cancelled or atleast that is what my intel told me i have a frind whose daughter works there and that is the rule . now if that happens ???? my set # 3837xxxx and 3838xxxx low placed at 5:02 i am hoping that sets are as follows order# 3830000 being 1set and 3830005 being set 5 but?????? i really hope all true collectors get a set i would settle for 1 my self

  190. simon says

    Re: 2006-W ASE slab values: The reasoning is simple : Folks are purchasing the label and not the coin. This is classic TPG – induced hysteria. For goodness sakes, the beautiful 2006 anniversary package (including the valuable mint COA) which housed the coin was long discarded into the rubbish heap in deference to a worthless piece of plastic. In reality when the mint made these sets they simply allocated part of the mintage for the sets – nothing special.

  191. fosnock says

    Stupid Question for the board
    I collect the uncirculated eagles so the 2011-S actual has meaning to me. I also understand why the reverse proof would have meaning to the ASE Proof collectors. Low mintage aside what I want to know is why it the 2011-S being compared to the 1995-W? One is a uncirculated coin and the other is a proof coin. I have never seen the relatively low 2006 uncirculated ASE mintage compared to the Proof ASE mintage

  192. fosnock says

    Another example would be all the complaints when the mint canceled the Proof & uncirculated ASE in 2009. The mint canceled just the uncirculated in 2010 .and everyone was happy that at least they go the proofs out I did not hear any complaints about another hole in my collection etc because the 2010 uncirculated ASE was not minted, yet now somehow the 2011-S is now critical for everyone’s collection

  193. stephen m. says

    Simon at 10:40am, i agree that they are buying the label. In the future that and other labels will command a premium. I personally like the black label, it’s a preference, and i’m sure i’m not alone. I think there are others who feel the same way about it and other labels. Does anyone have a link to information as to whom made the boxes for the 25th ann. set?

  194. B T says

    Some food for thought that may (or may not) be interesting to fellow collectors. One of the only things I took away from Six Sigma was an oft-overlooked statistic. Bear with me here.

    60% of people resist change but will do so at market maturity. 20% are what they call “Stone Agers”. 20% are what they call “Pioneers”. We in the software development industry used to refer to these categories as “conformists”, “refuseniks”, and “early adopters”. This philosophy can also be applied to the whole TPG label phenomena, or really anything else for that matter. iPhones, cloud computing, etc.

    Personally, I think the whole TPG label game is ridiculous. The only one with even some modicum of sense to it is “First Strike” because it fills the gap that the OGH did — which means that they can’t possibly be victims of the crack-out game. But it is still a misnomer at best, misleading otherwise.

    With that being said, the markets are nothing more than millions of people “discovering” the valuation of a good or service. Apparently, the markets value these various labels more highly than cookie cutter slabs. No matter how much I dislike them, I have ascertained that the trend is your friend.

    There is a lot of money to be made on labels. Resistance is futile at this juncture.

  195. Clair Hardesty says

    I understand that people are buying the label and I don’t begrudge them that. I just don’t understand why a nice label appears to be worth more than the coin itself. Sometimes specially labeled coins bring several times the value of their standard label counterparts. I can sort of understand when someone puts a somewhat high value on a coin with a label that proves a provenance that a coin belonged to a famous collection or even the ones that state that a coin was recovered from Ground Zero, but to pay multiples of a coin’s value to prove its method of delivery from the mint to the first owner, especially when that first owner is likely to have been a dealer or flipper is beyond my understanding. I get that it happens, and I know why the labels are important to some. I just don’t understand why what seems like a fairly minor point becomes worth more than the coin itself.

  196. MarkInFlorida says

    Regarding a few high prices on Ebay, if you were able to buy a bunch of these through friends, wouldn’t it be worth having a couple friends bid up your Ebay lot to a ridiculous price to make all your sets look more valuable? All it would cost is a couple Ebay fees and your coins could all double in value.

  197. B T says

    Clair,

    I gave up trying to figure out the decision-making process of the millions (billions) of people comprising the markets using standard technical analysis a long time ago. The key is to set the trend and benefit from it. I think the majority of labels are ridiculous but it only matters what I as an individual think if I am willing to accept a nearly guaranteed loss at time of sale for a cookie cutter slab.

  198. RSF says

    MarkInFl –
    It’s called shill bidding, and Ebay only allows that practice if your a dealer with high volume. (ie high value to eBay)

  199. stephen m. says

    If onlly we knew how all the modern coins fate will unfold in the future. The moderns are in their infancy and we are all going to be surprised in the future how they play out, if any of us are young enough to see it. In the meantime i intend to collect what i like, whenever i can, and be happy.

  200. Steve says

    Sorry Chrome, but that isn’t a fair comparison. Those 1893-S coins were made for circulation and San Fran mint had some die issues too. Thus, finding a 1893-S Morgan MS -65 is truely rare. 100,000 brand new eagles, never going into circulation is in a whole different category.

  201. Brian says

    I think First Strike commands a premium because it really means “never been previous slabbed”. That is, it isn’t a coin that once had a lower grade, but got resubmitted later and got graded higher. Is it worth the premium it commands? I don’t think so, but what I think doesn’t matter. It’s what the marketplace thinks that counts.

  202. chris says

    First Strike commands a premium because it really means “never been previous slabbed”

    Good one ! 😉

  203. fosnock says

    @Chrome Dome

    That is because it looks like just about all of them were melted down, Do you think this set will be melted down. How can you compare this set with the 1893-S? PCGS has a total population of 1753.

  204. Clair Hardesty says

    Only a total of 21 1893-S Morgans MS64 and up have been graded by PCGS & NGC combined, and that counts any regrading that might have happened. Total of ~6500 graded by both TPGs. An MS67 specimen by NGC (there is also one by PCGS) went for $546K in August.

  205. Eric The Red says

    I am totally disappointed with the US Mint. I tried ordering several time during the day only to be bumped off their antiquated web site. Once I got home from work, got the kids fed and to bed and placed my order at 9:00pm I was put their waiting list which I am now sure my order will be canceled. I totally agree with some of the other posters who suggested the Mint should have offered this as a 1 per household for us collectors for the first 24 hours. I am going with the Royal Mint 2012 UK Gold Proof Sovereign a much nicer coin with a much lower mintage.

  206. Clair Hardesty says

    The account and order information has just gone off line at the mint website. The entire site blinked briefly so it is possible that a database update is in progress. Give your information a look over as soon as it is back on line to make sure that all is OK with your orders.

  207. Broooster says

    The Mint site is up accourding to my computer, and my account says “Your order request is on hold”

  208. Clair Hardesty says

    That was weird. It is working now and it doesn’t look like anything changed. I could not even log out but now just did and went back in and all looks unchanged.

  209. VA Bob says

    Interesting conversation on Grading Services. My take on TPG’s is while it is popular now, the OGP will win out in the long haul. Why do I believe that? Because we have seen it time and time again. Who would take a rare first addition book and have it rebound? Collectible toys are worth more in their packaging than without it. That pretty much goes for any antique I can think of.

    Folks believe they are getting value from someone else’s opinion on their coin. That’s OK, but that will occur no matter how it’s preserved. People, in my opinion, had taken the original intent of grading/slabbing, which was to buy a coin sight unseen and get a reasonable assurance of its condition. Of course the TPG have done nothing to discourage that $$$. They have even add gimmicks, like FS. Good for those making a quick buck. To those buying take it to your local coin shop and see how much premium you get when selling. The key is to find another label hunter. I would never pay extra for that. Disclaimer: I do have some slabbed coins. All were obtained at prices comparable to raw coins.

    If you have a great looking coin in the mint capsule, it’s just as safe (and maybe more so than) in a TPG slab, where it must be handled further to get it in inside the plastic. Even the TPG’s say their slabs aren’t airtight. Just store them correctly in a cool, dry place. They will look great years from now. If your worried your PF70 now will be a PF69 tomorrow, people willing to spend good money on a rare or in demand coin can tell an over (or under) graded in a slab and pay accordingly. Boils down to do you want to find a sucker or novice to unload it on or not.

    Coins slabbed even if they have their OGP returned, risk the chance of it being lost over the years. Collectors, if your truly saving them for your kids or grand kids, save it for them in original condition. You can always leave instructions to have them properly appraised then, if they wish to sell.

    Additionally, if you intend to hold the coin and your not sure if you have a 68, 69, or 70 does it matter? Will you sleep better at night if someone else tells you what you have? The answer maybe yes, if you want to sell to someone else that is insecure about their grading skills, but it won’t matter 50+ years from now. The only thing that made the Lincoln Coins and Chronicles (last years quick sellout) sets valuable is the OGP. The all of those coins were available in other more numerous packaging (and numbers). Yet amazingly some got these slabbed with the coins and chronicles label (minus the OGP)! Imagine all those great sets like Lewis and Clark, Jefferson, and others that were picked apart for the “pieces”. Kind of like stripping a cherry 57 Chevy for the radio and motor, and tossing out the rest.

    Now I would never discourage anyone from doing or collecting what they enjoy. In fact I hope more people will send their sets into TPG’s. After all, someone had to make some comic books, baseball cards, etc. rare and in fine condition, over the years. I thank those folks for doing their part to enrich my grand kids futures.

  210. Louis says

    A pat on the back to all you posters for an interesting discussion. This is way better than what is on the similar thread at PCGS or on most other sites.

    One quick comment: The chances of the Mint reducing the household limit below 5 at this point are basically nil. That ship has sailed. Apart from being a breach of contract, and a huge hassle for them, I have no firm info. that it has ever been done. As Clair clarified to CaptainOverkill, on the ATB issue, they changed the AP’s orders, not those of individual customers and id so because the AP’s violated the terms of their agreement with the Mint. This may have been done with the 2011 Buffalos but I am not sure of that.

    Is there anyone here who ordered the 2011 Buffalo commems and remembers if the Mint changed order customer limits?

  211. alan says

    I can,t believe that anyone would even try to compare an 1893s morgan dollar to a new modern coin . The 1893s is truly one of the rarest old OLD OLD OLD OLD OLD COINS. Thats kinda how coin collecting got started rememeber saving old coins when you were a kid. What are you people drinking,it can’t be soda. Next thing you will be comparimg these to 1916d dime or 1909s vdb penny GET REAL

  212. Louis says

    Meant to write 2001 Buffalos (the silver dollar commems), not 2011. I will check the Coin World almanac which may have this info.

  213. alan says

    Also in 1918 under the Pittman ACT 270,232,722 million dollars were melted down,so with the 1893s dollar ,it is hard to say how many are left could only be 20 or 30 thousand no one knows for sure

  214. Bossman says

    Well, so much for getting one set… I knew the 5 per household limit would screw me out of a set since I work during the day. No telling what percentage of the sets are going to end up in dealers hands and not in the hands of plain ole collectors. Congrats to those that actually got one. I won’t be buying any off ebay for inflated prices.

  215. Jim says

    What was the US Mint thinking if they want the broadest ditribution to their real coin collectors? They always have limits on “hot items” suchas one per household – like the high relief Double Eagle. I’M TIRED OF ALL THESE STUPID e-bayers. DON’T BUY ON E-BAY !

  216. Bossman says

    Wow.. the flippers are out in hoards.. 7 pages of 25th sets.. Thanks a lot US mint for making the chances of the average working person to NOT get a set.

  217. VA Bob says

    Louis- I don’t believe they change the limit on the 2001 silver Buffs. I was overseas at the time and still manged to get 2 of the two coin sets.

  218. simon says

    ” An MS67 specimen by NGC (there is also one by PCGS) went for $546K in August. ”

    That is one and the same coin – It has some history, and had some varied natural toning which one could grow to like after ownership, on paying the $ 1M+ price tag. Now, somehow after the P-TPG first certified it at 67, the N-TPG marketing mavens convinced the owner to have it conserved – i.e. toning cleaned off. With the toning newly gone, and the coin shiny and minty looking, N certified it again at 67. But word got out that it had been doctored and the price dropped to less than 1/2 the original value. This history will have to be erased given time as the coin develops a fresh pedigree in addition to it conserved looks.

  219. Chrome Dome says

    I contend that the mint was trying to replicate the legacy of 1893-S in an effort to make modern collectors happy again with a symbolic gesture and I think they did. Additionally, as more highly desirable rare coins enter a series, it attracts higher caliber collectors with more capital. IMO, the 1995-W is grossly under-valued and so is the 2008 Rev 07. I estimate that a 2011-S in MS70 will see $750 minimum in short time.

    I have another ASE issue that I wish to get some opinions on. This pertains to the 2011-S coins without the “S” mint mark. I am hoping that in time the TPGs would recognize these coins as “2011-S No S” coins or “Missing Mint Mark” coins. This too would make for another highly desirable variety. My only question is; do the 2011 bullion coins produced by the WP mint have actual physical mint marks on them or is the mint just not putting mint marks on ASE bulk bullion anymore?

    In closing, I would like to say that collecting the ASE is once again an interesting and challenging pursuit. The addition of the 2011 25th Anniversary set says that the Mint has once again found the ability to satisfy collectors that focus on the fundamentals of coin collecting (low mintage, ǽsthetic beauty, and value).

  220. pl.mark says

    Concerning changing coin limits. There was talk of increasing the limit for the buffalo silver dollar from 500,000 coins to 1,000,000 coins but this never materialized. However, in 2005 for the marine corps silver dollar, the original mintage was to be 500,000 coins, but it was increased to 600,000 coins BEFORE sales began, and all of the certificates state the total mintage as 600,000 coins across all product options. For the Lincoln coin and chronicles set, the order limit was to be five sets per household, but that was reduced to just one set before sales were to begin. Finally, in 2004, the BEP issued the Texas coin and currency set with a limit of 5,000 sets and set the household limit at five sets, but because they were overwhelmed with orders, they then reduced the household limit AFTER the sellout.

  221. Clair Hardesty says

    The mint has never put a mint mark on the bullion coins. The Proof SAEs started in SF in 1986 and continued there through 1992 then moved to Philadelphia in 1993 and were minted there through 2000. In 2001 proof mintage moved to West Point where it remains today. With the SF mint coming on line this year as a source of bullion, the TPGs started labeling coins that were sent in for grading in mint sealed green “monster” boxes of 500 coins each. The seal on the monster box has information that indicated which mint produced the coins but the bullion coins from SF are individually indistinguishable from those out of WP. The uncirculated coins are not simply bullion coins with a mint mark. They are minted on special planchets using special die sets and high force presses. They are then handled and packaged individually. Aside from the fact that the proof coins are struck at least twice, uncirculated coins are essentially satin proofs.

  222. pl.mark says

    I am so bored, so I did some number-crunching. The total order sequence for this ASE set ranges from 38414XXX to 383247XX, a difference of 89,300 orders. This assumes that every order that was placed in this time period was for one and only one ASE set. Assuming that orders over the household limit of five sets would be cancelled, we can safely say that these 89,300 orders represent about 50,000 individual customers who wanted at least one set. Obviously, many orders would wind up on the waiting list (maybe 20,000 or 30,000). So if there ever was a time when the mint would change a household limit after a sellout, it could be now. The waiting list was instituted at about 38379999 and 3838000 (numbers from Friday afternoon after numerous orders had already been cancelled). This leaves about 34,000 orders on the waiting list, or about 25% of the ASE set mintage.

  223. Francisco J.Z. says

    I am glad that the economy in this country has officially recovered: people spent close to $30 million on 500k silver eagles in less than 5 hours! Kudos
    What is rare about each of the two “unique” coins in the set ? that there are 100,000 units of each minted?
    Rare to me is the 1995w proof ASE – less than 40k specimens minted;
    If this set had collector’s value….it wouldn’t be listed ad nauseum smoking mirrors on Ebay- a pathetic website that degrades the pure essence of coin collecting and promotes peddling; I can just imagine the ruckus once coin flippers get their orders cancelled and not delivered to faithful Ebay loyalists…LOL.

  224. pl.mark says

    Here is a wildcard. In 2006, the mint did a few marketing focus groups. The main issue was whether collectors would be inclined to buy an AE coin directly from the mint which was not a proof coin but which had a mintmark on it (the uncirculated coin). The response was rather neutral to this idea, being that collectors would prefer to spend a few more dollars and buy the proof version. Nevertheless, the mint went ahead with the coins, going so far as to produce a two-coin set for the 20th anniversary. This set contained two uncirculated coins, one ounce silver and one ounce gold. This set was packaged in the same box as the three-coin silver ASE set and had a special booklet for the 20th anniversary. This booklet was not available with the three-coin silver or three-coin gold sets. Now, this year, the mint seems to have selected various coins for this year’s 25th anniversary set. It seems strange that a coin with no mintmark would be included, but no coin would have a D mintmark. Why not produce a four-coin proof set, four-coin uncirculated set, or four-coin reverse proof set? [P,D,S,W] If a set was put together which contains the coins that were offered, why include two uncirculated coins (S,W)? [Keep in mind that to strike even one uncirculated S mintmark coin, a new master hub and die needed to be created with the S mintmark on it.] The answer might be that the mint wants to build-up future coin sales for the uncirculated silver AE coins, maybe in the ballpark of about 150,000 additional coins sold each year beginning in 2012. If this really is the case, then the mint might not want to spoil their marketing agenda, and, to accomplish that goal, the mint might choose a more fair and equitable distribution of these 100,000 sets. Just a thought, but a scary one for some (dealers and flippers), while a ray of hope for others.

  225. Clair Hardesty says

    I am not sure I follow your reasoning but I think what you say makes sense. One order (and one order number) was issued for from one to five sets. That means that if every order had been for five sets, only 20,000 orders would use up all of the sets. That clearly did not happen. If every order had been for only one set, it would have taken 100,000 orders to sell out. That clearly did not happen either. It is probably safe to assume that few if any orders that did not contain at least one set were placed before the website returned to normal operation Thursday evening. In the weeks before Thursday, an average just over 3000 orders were taken per day so we can pretty much ignore them in calculations. The first set orders appear to have started very close to 38,324,000. My last order at 2:10ET was roughly 26,000 above the start. If that pace continued and the sellout occurred at 4:30 then just over 50,000 orders were taken, an average just under two sets per order. That would put the waiting list at about 38,374,000 which fits with your number very well. I am not sure if the mint has ever released any information about how many orders they normally take onto waiting lists and surely many of the waiting list orders are for more than one set, just like earlier ones. My guess is that roughly one in ten orders are either invalid or will fail at CC time which translates to around 5000 orders. If the average sets per order was fairly constant then the first 5000 waiting list orders will get the chance to fail the CC test and a small percentage will do just that so I would be surprised if the mint leaves 34.000 orders on the waiting list. They will certainly leave enough to cover all of the sets using their knowledge of past events and a generous fudge factor but they will probably cancel the rest once they have an idea of the percentage of invalid orders placed in the early going.

  226. Alex says

    Guys, just relax and lets wait untill we get 25th Aniv. sets. We did everything we could do, we spent too many hours behind our computers to place our orders. Thank God for everything !!!

  227. Clair Hardesty says

    It would have been a logistical nightmare to produce any form of ASE in Denver. No Eagle has ever been minted there and commemorative production there is rather limited as well. I too thought it would have been nice to have a D coin but it would have to have been planned long ago. The inclusion of the bullion coin makes some sense since the ones in the set were minted in SF and that is a new thing this year. I don’t yet know if the TPGs will label the bullion coin as an S-mint version. If the mint assures them that every one in the sets came out of SF they might.

  228. DCDave says

    Precious metals are tanking overseas.
    Would be funny if silver falls below $30/oz and folks were staying away from PMs after all of this…

  229. Silver Dome says

    Ebay
    2011 American Eagle Silver 25th Anniversary Coin Set (A25)
    Item number: 170720160730
    Ended: Oct 30, 201120:46:05 PDT
    Winning bid: US $600.00

  230. Jeff says

    In comparison with bullion and bars, I find numismatics provide better protection in the event of falls.

    Even if silver were to fall below $20/oz the fact of the matter remains that the mintage is still 100,000.

  231. Alex says

    Guys, just relax and lets wait untill we get 25th Aniv. sets. We did everything we could do, we spent too many hours behind our computers to place our orders.

  232. Grampa Dave says

    Wow, I had to work all day on the 27th and my wife franticly tried her best to place the order. She began shortly after 9:00 a.m. Pacific time, finally ordered at 1:39 P.M. We may have been the last buyer before the waiting list was posted. Time the order went in 4:39P.M.
    Order number: 38374???

    Order Date: 10/27/2011 at 04:39 PM

    Order Status: Your order request is on hold.

    Original order had a back order date of 11/11/11 on thursday. friday it went to 11/12/11. Saturday 11/13/11. Now on Sunday it changed to 11/14/11. Last time this three back orders changes happened to me (LP1 Lincoln Pennies) I got put on the wait list then cancelled. If I get cancelled, I may never own this set. 🙁 🙁 🙁

  233. JC says

    I think the US Mint did collectors a real disservice with this botched launch. It seems like a large number of orders were placed by flippers and coin companies leaving ordinary collector out in the cold. Most of us with jobs couldn’t afford to spend the time battling the antiquated servers. Why not reduce the ordering limit to 3 for those who have placed orders and limit 1 set per person for those on the waiting list.

  234. says

    “Precious metals are tanking overseas. Would be funny if silver falls below $30/oz and folks were staying away from PMs after all of this…” DCDave

    I agree DC…as a matter of fact the way all the Silver marketeers are pushing hard and saying this is the best time ever to jump into the market is almost a solid guarantee that silver will be going south…and soon.

  235. Piotr says

    This morning I received an email from mint saying this:
    “Greetings from the United States Mint.  
       We regret to inform you that the item(s) listed below  
       are currently on backorder. Please expect your item(s)  
       to arrive within the timeframe listed below.  
       Track your order at http://catalog.usmint.gov  
       Thanks again for shopping with the United States Mint. ”
    Anybody else got it?

  236. BigHock says

    Piotr – Two Cents was nice enough to explain as follows:
    “The Mint is both manufacturer and seller, so when they say “backorder,” they mean that the order is backed up until the coins are minted, assembled, and then shipped to the fulfillment center for mailing.”

    I got the same message.

    Overall, a great offering from the mint that has reenergized the hobby as everyone is all over it. How great is it that there is so much interest in collecting all over again?

  237. ClevelandRocks says

    The 2011 Burnished Gold Eagle will likely have a price increase this week and is a nice coin to look at and will have a mintage of less than 10% of any of the special ASEs in the 25th set.

  238. Paul H says

    this morning i awoke to this message from the mint,
    i purchesd my sets just at about 5:15 pm 5 hours after the sale

    Greetings from the United States Mint.
    We regret to inform you that the item(s) listed below
    are currently on backorder. Please expect your item(s)
    to arrive within the timeframe listed below.
    Track your order at http://catalog.usmint.gov
    Thanks again for shopping with the United States Mint.

    Order #: 38378xxx – 1
    Sold To : H, PAUL
    Ship To : H, PAUL
    Item: A25 Qty: 5 Exp Ship: 11/14/11
    25TH ANNIVERSARY AE 5 COIN SILVER SET

    This is a system generated e-mail. Please do not reply.
    If you have questions, please visit the Help page at .
    http://catalog.usmint.gov or call us at 1-800-USA-MINT.

  239. Kraw says

    @Piotr 6:18AM

    I got the same email from the mint this morning. I ordered my set at 4:54 EST and assumed I was on the waitlist. crossing my fingers this means I will still get it!

  240. Kraw says

    Oh and I forgot to mention, after I placed my order at 4:54 EST, I didn’t even see the waitlist notice was already up. When I placed my order I then came to read this blog and that is when I realized the waitlist was already up. I decided to put in an order for 4 more sets on the waitlist just in case at 6:24 EST. I have not received any further emails from the mint on that order after the original confirmation.

  241. Shutter says

    Piotr,

    Any message that doesn’t say that your order is cancelled,means you’re still in the dance. I got the same message, and mine also listed Glacier ATB coins, which is still being sold.

    Everyone really should take a sedative. You’re not going to see anniversary set for 2-3 weeks, maybe longer. Nothing you can do until then. Relax. Dream about 30th anniversary, plan your strategy for Black Friday shopping, have a cocktail, but stop making yourself crazy. This isn’t an iPhone. The set won’t be obsolete the moment your credit card is charged.

  242. vaughnster says

    The e-mail from the Mint is a standard message regarding backorders and just mirrors the information you can find on the “track order” section of their website. What’s interesting is that I placed an order at 5:43 pm, an hour after the wait list started, and am still on schedule to receive my set. Would they send out this message before going through all the orders?? That is the question.

  243. Shutter says

    Anyone know why silver dropped so much overnight?
    Probably someone in London counted up the number of eBay auctions for 25th Anniversary sets and decided that U.S. Mint must be dumping several thousand tonnes of silver on the market.

  244. SyntaxError says

    ClevelandRocks: Silver tanked because Bank of Japan decides to intervene, selling of massive amounts of Japanese Yen and buying massive amounts of U.S. dollars. This lead to the U.S. dollar rallying across the board.

  245. Javen says

    My receipt is 38386XXX. Just got a “backordered” notification email from the Mint about 1 hour ago. Does anyone have a clue what this is about?

  246. MarkInFla says

    Silver is dropping because Japan is printing lots of new yen to lower the value of the yen, which in effect raises the value of the dollar with makes PMs cheaper.

  247. Clair Hardesty says

    Just so we don;t worry too much about the backorder emails, I ordered the new ATB on Friday and received a backorder email for it right along with the ones for the anniversary set this morning. I had noticed that the ship date incremented on my track order pages just before I called it a night (mine now say the 14th), Interestingly, my ATB order’s date, which is also incrementing daily is now set at the 8th, but I doubt that it will ship before the sets start going out.

    Grampa Dave: your order is probably very close to the start of the waiting list one way or the other. That gives you a very good chance of getting your order, either simply because or invalid orders ahead of yours or cancellations that happen as shipping starts (bad CCs). The incrementing ship date is normal and not cause for alarm.

    All of the PMs headed south at the open but have leveled off. Silver is down a buck as I write this. This may be caused by forces outside the PM space or by profit taking from last week’s rapid rise, most likely a little of each. Even with this drop, it looks like an ounce of gold from the mint will cost another $50 on Wednesday.

    It does feel nice to be excited about collecting from the mint again. Even with all of the (very understandable) complaining going on, it is nothing like the fiasco that took place with the UHRDE and the subsequent damage that the Moy led mint levied on the hobby.

  248. BigHock says

    Agree Claire. I think the reinvigorated discussion is a overall plus for the hobby. Now, I can finally awaken a discussion withj my mom. I am in my fourties, and it is time to move out.

    …And to all those who had a hard time ordering at the mint… Try looking cool in front of a girl you just brought “home” for the first time and trying to look cool, when your mom yells out “haven’t you taken out the garbage yet?”. “Have you seen my dentures?”. Yeah! I would kill for a wait list in my own pad!

  249. Paul H says

    SAVE 70% ON NGC GRADING FEES THIS WAY!
    WHY FOLLOW THE HEARD OFF A CLIFF?
    NGC charges $ 3 more ( $17.00 per coin )anniversary label plus $1.00 to get back your box and coa. PLUS SHIPPING AND INSURANCE!
    Would it not be much cheaper to only send in ONLY the Reverse Proof and the S mint to have those graded in the $14.00 per coin BROWN label ?
    If they come back 69 put them back in the original case and sell the set to the highest bidder. If they come back 70 then they can be sold as a 70 grade to who ever wants to have them reholdered for $5 or just keep them in the brown label.
    the S mint and the Reverse Proof do NOT have to be in a sealed box to recieve the anniversary label. only the 3 common coins sold seperatly require being sealed.
    This would be one way to not get gouged by NGC the cost of searching for the 70 grades
    Give or take a nickel the grading cost for searching for the 70 grade semi keys dates would be reduced by 70%
    The cost of grading a whole set is over $100
    Grading just the 2 KEY coins is $28
    why get gouged when ultimatley the only modern coin that has any real value is a 70 grade. In 4-6 years when silver pulls back to $15 on ounce the anniversary sets in 69 grade will be 399.95 to 499.95 hardly out of reach of the average Silver Eagle collector
    WHERE AM I WRONG?

  250. Todd says

    Well I was online for 4.5 hours trying to order 1 set last Thursday. I didn’t get through on the web until 4:58 CST. My order # is #38389XXX, so I’m one of the late/high numbers. Figured I’d get a cancellation soon, but this morning Oct 30 I got an email saying it’s back ordered and expected to ship 11/14/11. So hopefully I’ll actually get it. I’m just a collector not going to flip I’ll just let me kids fight over it about 20 years from how!

    I had an easier time getting 1 set of the Lincoln Chronicles than I did getting this one. And I agree with most in the mint should have had a 1 set per household limit for the first week on this. That way the product would be spread out to more people. But to each their own. If you’re flipping good luck otherwise enjoy this beautiful set as the collection it is!

    TK from Minneapolils

  251. jonny says

    Debacle! A total debacle for the U. S. Mint. Why on earth would they allow a limit of 5 units per order? Why would they let all the flippers order five sets? What the Hell is wrong with these people. I tried from Noon until 4:50, both on the web and redialing the 800 number, with no success. I have ordered numerous coins from the mint since 1991. I am FINISHED with them and the flippers. U.S.Mint = Assinine!!! I will never buy anything from them again!!!

  252. says

    On the Mint’s email, I got one and am definitely not on the waiting list. So did my friend who got his order through at 12:15. It seems to have gone out to everyone, perhaps in a belated attempt to explain the whole “backorder” thing. My guess is it’s an effort to improve customer service.

    On the price of metals, things will be very volatile for the next week. The BoJ intervention was one major factor which knocked them down this morning, and the impending MF Global bankruptcy is also probably shaking things up (who here had even heard of MF Global before they started imploding last week?). There is also as Clair mentioned some profit taking likely going on after last week’s big runup in prices. We may see the price go down all week.

    I may have spoken too soon in warning about potential silver price increases, sorry guys.

  253. BigHock says

    Jonny – I understand your frustration as do many others. It is a quandry because if they minted more or had a lower order limit, then the numismatic value would be lower, This is always the classic dilemma, as increase in supply would lower price and lasting demand. The good thing Is that the mint has other good products to collect. Also, it is difficult to gauge demand presale so they have a tough job. I do think they work at it and ultimately do their best.

    I understand the frustration and do not blame the mint. I still believe they are good men, and thorough.

  254. David says

    Got this email this morning from the US Mint:

    Greetings from the United States Mint.
    We regret to inform you that the item(s) listed below are currently on backorder. Please expect your item(s) to arrive within the timeframe listed below.

    When I read the “regret to inform you” part, I almost fell over, thinking it would say something like, “your credit card was not approved and your 25th Anniversary Set order has been cancelled.” Any email that starts with “We regret to inform you” should be followed by something truly regretful. Would rather they say something like, “We wanted to update you on the timeline of your order…”

    What a scare.

  255. Brad says

    Regarding the order limit, it was an honest mistake by the Mint as for some insane reason they failed to realize that times today are different than they were in 2006. It took 2.5 months for the 20th Anniversary Silver Eagle Set to sell out 250,000 units with a 10 per household limit enforced the entire time. However, it only took that long to sell out because not everyone recognized that set for what it was (a limited item with a coin unique to the set) until after it was too late. Those who bought them for $100 each from the Mint cleaned up on the secondary market, with the sets briefly reaching $600 before pulling back to $300. Those who missed out on that opportunity were undoubtedly kicking themselves.

    This time around, with the memory of what happened in 2006 still fresh in everyone’s minds, there was absolutely NO doubt that these sets would sell out FAST. Since the mintage was cut down to only 100,000 units and there were TWO coins unique to the set this time, a complete sellout was guaranteed. Why the Mint failed to realize this boggles the mind.

    The Mint actually has an escape clause though. The 25th Anniversary Set was limited to 100,000 units, and it wouldn’t be right to change that now. It also wouldn’t be right to alter existing orders after the fact to reduce the quantity allowed. HOWEVER, nowhere was it stated that the “S” Uncirculated coin and the “P” Reverse Proof coin would NOT be offered individually at a later time. I think if those who missed out on the set could acquire those two coins in some form or fashion, they could live with the fact that they are not housed in the special set box. There were a lot of complaints about that box, anyway.

    The Mint would still anger those who bought the sets by taking away the unique factor, which was largely what drove sales in the first place. The secondary market value of the sets would tank for certain. Disgruntled flippers would then cancel their orders, and more wait-listers would end up with sets after all, if they still wanted them. I think there are enough true collectors to absorb all 100,000 sets, and the cancellations would be from the buyers themselves and not the Mint. Such a move wouldn’t help the Mint’s business from those buyers in the future though, so they have to consider that as well. Love them or hate them, flippers generate a LOT of revenue for the U.S. Mint, revenue that sometimes might not happen without them. Sometimes items that are expected to be “hot” turn out to be pretty chilly. If an item’s value tanks, it doesn’t really hurt the Mint, as they got their money from the flippers. Some items that might have went unsold without flippers generated revenue after all, and the flippers are the ones taking losses.

    The 30th Anniversary Silver Eagle Set will undoubtedly start out with a 1 per household limit. Depending on how the 25th Anniversary Set fiasco turns out, the 2016 set may or may not end up with it’s own 1-day sellout. I can’t wait to find out!

  256. rcn says

    Mike,

    Is there any way you can put a limit on how long some of these postings are?? Or even how many times certain people continue to post on here time and time again??

    I like your blog, and usually “some” of the postings that follow are useful, but in this case you have many of the same old people have complete conversations going back and forth to the point where this many postings and all the rhetoric going back and forth is of little use.

    I would hate to suggest this, but at this point, I would love to see you turn off the Comments once again because of all this useless chatter!!

  257. Ikaika says

    An interesting observation: It appears that people that placed their orders via the internet from the Northeast region were able to do so much quicker than others living elsewhere in the US. Is this just my impression?

  258. joe says

    A true logistics nightmare would the the Mint trying to adjust household limits after the fact. Ain’t gonna happen! They’re already struggling with the orders they received as the system was set up.

    Those that say the “average American” couldn’t get this set are wrong. I am just an average American who was able to get one and I know many others who did as well. What these people are really saying is that they are mad because THEY didn’t get one. If everyone was able to get an order in except them, they would still say the system was not fair. I’m really sorry that these people couldn’t get one for what ever reason, but anyone old enough to have a credit card to purchase one of these sets should be old enough to recognize that life isn’t fair.

    I can’t total up the number of times when things didn’t work out for me or I couldn’t get a particular coin or my hair started falling out or…you get the picture. Complaining says a lot about a person’s character… Perhaps the next time they get one and I don’t. If it does work out that way, I don’t plan on complaining about it.

  259. William says

    @ Ikaika:

    I really wish there was an East coast bias in this situation, but I can attest that that was not the case. I live in NYC and was not able to connect online to the Mint’s website on that fateful day….

  260. Walt says

    Keep in mind that if you send in the sealed set you also get the common eagle (non mint marked) bullion coin as a 25th anniversary and from the San Francisco Mint. All the common eagles are provided by the San Francisco
    mint according to the mints website.

  261. Ed says

    Joe, I belilve the point is people who did not get to order are not upset at others (honest collectors) whom were more successful. What is upsetting is the fact that some many flippers were selling on Ebay. Yes it’s their right to do what they want with their coins. It is America! I would have like that 100,000 people got them then say 58,000. How would people feel if only 20,000 people got them if they all order 5 and most were flippers? Nothing in life is a guarantee nor is getting on the Mint’s website to get your ASE 25th. Just saying people need to burn off some steam and this is a good place to do so with other collectors whom have experience the same thing.

    It is what it is…Happy Collecting
    Ed

    PS waiting for ASE 30th in 2016

  262. Ikaika says

    @William:

    Thank you for the input. Maybe I just happen to talk to a few that were able to get their orders quicker from the NE region.

  263. vaughnster says

    rcn–

    I would disagree with you. Yes there is some back and forth chatter but it is mostly on topic and this is a blog after all. The 25th Anniversary ASE set fiasco blows the whole 2010 ATB bullion fiasco out of the water. I think that a lot of us still can’t believe what happened that fateful Thursday between Noon and 5 p.m. it’s something we all want to keep talking about. It will be many years before we see something like this again. Hang in there, I’m sure Michael will be adding a new topic soon.

  264. TomP says

    I had noted the Mary Todd Lincoln F.S. on a Saturday posting had a ship date of 11/13. Now it is 11/15. The other F.S. coins have no date posted. Would the mint make a new lot so close to the coin’s end date?
    Just received this morning the Glacier AtB. The background has a light frosted finish like my Gettysburg but the foreground has great detail and an almost polished foreground. Both coins are much better than my unc. 10’s. With the mint improving on appearance and hopefully quality control, I would think they would promote the AtBs in future catalogs to offset the flagging sales.

  265. Hidalgo says

    Does anyone know if the US Mint plans to offer singles of the 2011 S American Silver Eagle in a boxed up version?

  266. EvilFlipper says

    Hidalgo- The mint has trouble keeping up w/ simple bullion demand. Its a huge process and there is little time left in the year.

  267. Brian says

    We might also get a 10th anniversary Gold Buffalo set at the same time as the 30th anniversary American Eagle set. Won’t that be something?

  268. Fosnock says

    Stirring the pot, per the US Mint

    Orders are not valid until accepted by the United States Mint.

    The United States Mint reserves the right to limit quantities and may discontinue accepting orders at any time.

    The United States Mint reserves the right to accept or reject coin orders in any combination or option(s) it determines to be in its best interest.

  269. Shutter says

    What an awful lot of people fail to realize, is that the household limit is what drives up the demand. A limit of 1 would have resulted in an even higher demand (although more people would have got a set). If the mint did not have a household limit and no mintage limit, they probably would not have even reached the 100,000. Of course the complaining enthusiasts would be complaining about premium price for the set and still announcing that they will never buy anything else from the mint.

  270. says

    R W,

    I don’t think the Palladium Eagle will be the “next big thing.”

    For one thing, palladium is much less well known to coin buyers and investors as opposed to gold and silver. It is not a “traditional” metal and has only really seen use as bullion in the past decade or so. Demand for palladium bullion is relatively low. Platinum suffers from similar problems, though it has been used for collectible coins longer than palladium.

    Because of the suspicion with which it is viewed by investors and collectors, combined with the relatively low overall demand for palladium coins and bullion, I am predicting that sales will be similar to more recent issues of the proof platinum series. We may have a fairly strong spurt of sales in the first year, but I expect sales to taper off quickly after that.

    Too many people will look at the palladium eagle and say “You know, I am going to spend this $800-$900 bucks on a half ounce of gold instead.”

    Furthermore it seems like it has been a long time since we’ve heard anything about the palladium eagle. I would have expected the market study to be complete by now. I was expecting it to be released sometime in mid to late 2012, but with such a long silence, now I am not so sure.

  271. Clair Hardesty says

    The only thing that palladium has going for it right now is cost. At ~$650 an ounce it allows making a large coin that is significantly cheaper than gold or platinum. With a density of about 12gm/cc (silver ~10.5, gold ~19.3, platinum ~21.5) it allows for a one ounce coin larger than the gold eagle and only slightly smaller than the silver coin. Unless the mint comes up with an exceptional design for the palladium Eagle I expect it to languish.

  272. simon says

    Slightly off topic but my Glacier 5 Oz came in – very nice coin – really like the reverse design with the mountain goat and vista.

  273. DCDave says

    What makes the 25th set with 100k mintage better than the ’11 burnished gold eagle? The UHR was a unique pattern, the 25th set just has unique MINT MARKS (not coins), even the reverse proof is not a unique type. Even OGP UHR can be purchased today for about twice the Mint price…The ’11 burnished gold eagle will have less than a tenth mintage and now is “on sale” before the price goes up Wed. Maybe I should have kept my thoughts to myself, but think about it…
    Just saying I will be totally bummed if I don’t get off the wait list, but I’m sure I can pick up a set if I want in the aftermarket at some point for a reasonable price.

  274. joe says

    Brian,

    Now you got me excited…

    A 10th Anniversary AGB! Awesome thought and something to really look forward to!!!!

  275. says

    Clair,

    The main reason I am going to pick up at least the first issue of the palladium eagle is because they’re using the mercury dime for the obverse and the reverse is going to be taken from one of Weinman’s medals. It should be a very attractive piece.

    However, I’m not much interested in palladium. My alternative metal of choice is platinum. I will probably not buy any additional palladium eagle issues.

    As for price, while palladium is bouncing around $650-$700 currently, I would expect the Mint to tack on a $100-$150 premium for the coin, so I am expecting a price of $800-$900. While palladium is cheaper than gold, I think a lot of people would just take that money and buy a fractional gold eagle or some silver eagles with it. This is why I expect low sales in line with what we see for the platinum eagle.

  276. Brad says

    Yeah, a Reverse Proof Gold Buffalo would look really cool! There could also be an Uncirculated W coin as well, the first since 2008. That is, unless the Mint brings them back before 2016. The traditional Proof coin would also need to be included.

    I wonder what a 3-coin Buffalo gold set would cost in 2016? It could be so prohibitively expensive, the Mint would have a hard time selling 10,000 sets! Even today, such a set would probably cost about $6,000!

  277. mookem says

    On a happy note, I just went from an “on hold” status to an “in process” on the 25th set order.

  278. Shawn says

    David, you are aboslutely right. lol. I got the same email, and I’m exprecting to read “we regret to inform you too many orders were taken and we cancelled yours..” or something like that. not, we regret to inform you everything is the same as when you laced the order. mint just messing with our heads now. some intern probably having a great laugh today.

  279. Clair Hardesty says

    CO, you are right about the markup. It might be even higher depending on how they package it. The UHRDE was $350 over spot. Palladium used to have a huge premium but the Canadian Maple Leaf coin goes for only $45 over spot in small quantities and buy back is at spot in volume. I will definitely pick up one with the Weinman designs and might go ahead and get one every year they mint it.

  280. jon says

    mookem says:
    October 31, 2011 at 3:43 pm
    On a happy note, I just went from an “on hold” status to an “in process” on the 25th set order.

    ——————————————————————————————————————-
    I ordered 4 sets at 12:36 and 1 set at 1:26 and my last order is in process but my my first order is still on hold?

  281. jim says

    FYI Just got off the phone with PCGS and they said they will only give 1st strike to 2 of the coins, Ngc will do ER on all 5 of the coins. Also all of the people that are buying on E-bay will learn the hard way on these sets that 3 of them will not be greaded 25th annv, set. Jim

  282. Two Cents says

    In the latest issue of Coin World (Nov. 11, 2011), it was reported that according to the Mint, as of 5 pm on the day that the 25th Anniversary Silver Set went on sale, 100,709 sets were ordered, and at that time a waiting list was imposed.

    According to Tom Jurkowsky, director of the Mint’s Office of Public Affairs, this is the breakdown of those 100,709 sets:

    > Total – 27,254 orders, averaging 3.7 sets per order
    > Online – 22,413 orders – 84,168 sets
    > Phone– 4,841 orders – 16,541 sets

    According to the Coin World article, “Jurkowsky said the Mint’s information technology personnel continually executed patchwork fixes to keep the system up and running. The entire online sales system for the Mint is scheduled to be completely overhauled in 2012 … to eliminate the problems the Mint has encountered when limited edition products are offered.”

    Keep in mind that these orders still have to be verified – credit card, address, duplicate orders, household limit, etc. – so the first 27,254 orders may not all be filled. That’s what the waiting list is for.

  283. says

    Jim, PCGC may not give the 3 coins you mentioned as First Strike, but they WILL be designated as “25th Annv. Set” if you submit in a sealed mint shipping box.

  284. Clair Hardesty says

    Three of my five orders have changed to in process and just like Jon above, it is my later sets that have changed status first. Now we just have to get “in stock and reserved” and for the cancel button to go away. Then wait for a CC charge to show up and then get a tracking number and then have the tracking number work and then one more business day and … oh, just wait impatiently.

  285. Gary says

    Maybe…if they do a 30th anniversary Set…they will do an unlimited mintage so everyone in the world can have one and then year after year they become worth less and less and we get to pass down to our heirs another coin set that isnt worth anything and has no collectabilty at all? What good would that be to anyone?
    I think the US Mint did a pretty decent job with this release!! Its suppose to be a special event and thats exactly what they turned this set into!! Something very special!!

  286. simon says

    The general procedure for “in process” orders is that if the order total is less than $ 300 it moves quickly. If the order total is above $300 there is a second level of mint – CC approval which takes a bit longer. Same is true for refunds: $300 and less processes quickly, usually 1-2 days. Above $300 requires approval and is sometimes very long. My unit will remain in OGP – it saves me the trouble of reading through and deciphering redundant TPG business practices for one type of issue or another.

  287. pl.mark says

    I really don’t know where things stand, but all that I can repeat is what I was told:
    ” [from TX] knows of the situation and has contacted the proper officials [at the mint].”

  288. Bill says

    If you submit your coins to be graded in unopened condition from the mint, wouldn’t it be possible for a grading company to swap coins? I mean who would know?

    Just scratching my head in Arizona…

  289. chris says

    It’s worse than that – they may clean / etch your coins if they happen to drop them, put finger prints, or laminate them. PCGS did that to me, and I quit their service right away. Most folks here are doing the TPG gig for resale perhaps.

  290. says

    Re: waiting list. I’ve seen a couple of ebay auctions in which they said they talked to a Mint rep and that if your order number begins with 3838xxxx you should be ok. I realize these #’s are later that when the “wait list” started…as the order # cutoff was around 38374xxx. I wonder if the 3838xxxx # takes into account canceled orders by the Mint, and thus, a later safe order #.

  291. Konde says

    Suggestion to the US Mint that they cross check the sales on ebay and cancel all their orders. Now that would be acceptably fair for me since these people exceeded the purchase limit. I don’t mind the delay of shipment if more honest people can get the set that otherwise be resold by these greed for profit. Some people have been selling the set maybe more than 20 times. How else can they have that many sets if not by unfair method.

  292. Samuel says

    Seems many people got confirmation emails. Mint processes orders from back to front? My 3832xxxx no email yet.

    How come some people placed 5 orders(single set) and had no problem, but some people can’t even place one?

  293. Clair Hardesty says

    The mint’s website and phone systems acted essentially as a lottery. Whether you got through to place an order in time or not was probably as random as it could have been without actually having a drawing. The mint will do everything that they can to weed out orders that violate the 5 set per household limit. That does not mean that many people won’t end up with more than five sets. Dealers and others have always had ways around the limits, using employees, contractors, family, and friends to order products and deliver them to a central point for resale. This is not a violation of mint policy, it is just creative business. What the mint won’t allow is credit cards that link back to a single person or address being used, multiple persons or credit cards that have a common address, or anything else that they think violates the household limit. While lowering the household limit makes the practices used to legitimately acquire more than the limit, it does not in any way prevent it. A lower limit simply requires more people to carry out a mass buy. Most likely a lower limit would have meant that many more individuals would have placed valid orders, but it does not mean that vastly fewer people who want sets for their personal collection would have gotten them.

  294. Louis says

    Has anyone else tried dealing with the mess at the Perth Mint tonight? The site has been faster than last time, but I can not get an order through, and it does not appear they are sold out yet. Anyone else have the same experience? At least with the US Mint after a couple hours, I finally got through, but with Perth, they won’t even tell you what the problem is. I even tried calling, but the lines are too busy. I give up. It’s just not worth the aggravation.

  295. Samuel says

    The perthmint website is messed up. It keeps asking me to sign in and then cart becomes empty……again and again.

  296. Louis says

    Thanks, Samuel. I was trying to get the 4 coin rectangle Dragon set. This is total nonsense. At least with the anniv. sets, we knew whether or not our orders went through. I have been getting all kinds of weird messages all night, and I am trying to call to see if my order went through, but the lines are just constantly busy. A brief call does not cost much if you know how to call, but I am tried of this. I thought Perth was supposed to be very customer firendly and all that, but this is just a mess. I can’t risk multiple charges, so I will pass. I will stick with our Mint next time.

  297. Piotr says

    Just checked my orders summaries. I placed 5 individual orders. #s 2, 3 are in process. 1, 4, and 5 still on hold. Strange tactics.

  298. Samuel says

    Louis,
    I have tried for the past 3 hours to get a baby dragon. Got stuck at every single step and finally, submit order, it said there are problems. I need to go to bed now. Perth mint is really a joke.

  299. Piotr says

    Funny how people are selling 1 sealed set on eBay, and they provide photo of their order, don’t even cover order number. but the best thing is that the order says 5 sets. LOL! Some buyers are going to be disappointed. I would like to see the sellers face when the UPS guy hands the big one. Also big potential for a scam. You can cancel their order if you know their address and phone #.
    Correct me if I’m wrong.

  300. G says

    Samuel- Perth mint still shows baby dragon for sale-the rectangular set sold out quick! Makes the US Mint seem lightning fast- but the coins are beautiful

  301. pl.mark says

    If PM is sold out of a product, try talismancoins.com ~~ they seem to have everything that PM sells. The new PM products have not yet been advertised at talisman, so get on their email list so that they can inform you of these new releases.

  302. Louis says

    Already asked and Talisman will only sell the new dragon set to those who purchased last year’s rectangular set.

  303. says

    Hi folks,

    I actually forgot about the Perth releases last night after all the hullabaloo about the 25th anniversary sets. My main interest was the “baby dragon.” I thought it was a cutesy name they had come up with for a half ounce version of the regular dragon proof. Unfortunately this is not the case. I thought the design looked rather silly and I passed. See here: http://www.perthmint.com.au/images/product/original/0-Baby-Dragon-2012-Reverse.jpg

    What surprised me was hearing how popular the rectangular “coins” are. I was not really interested in them and did not expect another crazy rush to pick them up.

    As for Perth Mint being customer friendly, they are not. The Mint has at least acknowledged the problems related to their website and has input the “quick checkout” option to help alleviate customer stress. Perth has done absolutely nothing to clean up the problems with their website. Their ordering process involves something like 8 or 9 clicks, and if one of those clicks fails, you must start from scratch. Just checking one’s shipping address forces a page reload! Not to mention as several other people have noted, the site routinely purges your cart after failed orders, forcing the customer to go through the ordering process from scratch all over again. In general, you will not get through to Perth’s site unless you have multiple people working to buy for you or unless you have a script set up to input orders over and over again.

    I do think that Perth produces coins that are more aesthetically pleasing than the US Mint (in general, there are always exceptions) but my experience with the silver dragon typesets taught me how poor their customer service is. At least with the US Mint, ordinary customers who are alert and pay attention have a fighting chance. The whole typeset affair left a bad taste in my mouth and poor opinion of Perth.

  304. Louis says

    The baby dragon is really cartoonish, though perhaps suitable for a child. Later in the year France will be releasing some dragons that should be quite nice.
    The U.S. Mint is definitely a lot better than Perth. I won’t ever try ordering from Perth again and sent them an e-mail telling them what a poor job they do. I am all in favor of low mintages but when you know a product has worldwide demand why issue such small numbers? At least make say 10,000, not 1,000 or 3,000.

  305. Louis says

    CO: Here is a link from a German dealer.
    http://www.starshop-coins.de//Frankreich-10-Euro-2012-Jahr-des-Drachen-PP
    They will be issued in gold and silver. The dragon side is clearly the nicer image.
    To avoid high shipping charges and hassles, I would suggest ordering from Royal Scandanavian Mint, which has told me they expect to have them in Dec.
    Also, check out the Yin and Yang dragons from Fiji, which are really cool and have a 4,000 mintage. RSM is sold out already but might get more.
    Finally, Niue also has a color pad printed one that is very nice, also sold out.

  306. Fosnock says

    The low mintage is to justify their premium. Their markup is twice the markup for the US Mint…I just saw the baby dragon, and I do not see why their is so much hype. I rarely ever buy from the Perth Mint because of their markups.

  307. Fosnock says

    Thanks Louis nice coin…Not sure if they will have the coin but I have also ordered from the Paris Mint (Monnaie de Paris) without problems

  308. says

    Very, very nice Louis. This definitely looks like something worth picking up. I actually think this is more attractive than the non-painted version of Perth’s silver dragons.

  309. Louis says

    I think the latest hype was more for the 4 coin rectangle set more than the baby dragon. Good point on the premium.

    Monnaie de Paris is fine to order from, but it takes a little patience. They issue some great coins like the Sowers, which are somewhat similar to the Walking Liberty design. Some people say Weinman was inspired by the classic Sowers.

    RSM (www.rsm.com) is a US company in Utah, and they are really good about getting these kind of issues (not Perth but almost everything else worldwide) and have a price matching policy against anyone in North America. I did some interviews with the owner for Coin Week that goes into more detail.

  310. Louis says

    Glad you like it, CO. The French Mint is the oldest one in the world, so they have had time to perfect medallic art. France makes some very nice low mintage commems. You won’t get rich from them, but they are superb from an artistic point of view.

  311. says

    Louis,

    Artwork tends to be a major selling point for me, more than premiums. Part of the reason I happened to pick up some painted gold roosters from Perth when I first started acquiring precious metal coins is because I liked the artwork. I was quite surprised later on when I discovered the potential high premiums for the roosters. I don’t mind too much in this case if the premium for this dragon is low.

  312. Bill says

    I’ve seen two articles indicating that the no-mint mark bullion coin in the 25th Anniversary set was minted at Denver. Along with the Uncirculate -S and reverse proof -P, that would make three unique coins, and the bullion coin should also be eligible for PCGS “First Strike” designation as 2011 (D)?

    The only way to know if you have an Uncirculated 2011(W) or 2011(S) would be either graded slab, or un-opened monster box. Same would be true of the 25th Ann set – either sealed from mint, or slabbed as 2011(D). If the set was opened, there would be no way to know if the no-mint mark (D) was switched for a no mint mark (W) or (S)….

    Can anyone confirm the Denver minting, and tell me if I’m missing something here?

    Thank you,

  313. Clair Hardesty says

    To Piotr who asked earlier about how easy it is to cancel a mint order. It used to be easy and it happened a few times on the UHRDE in 2009 but that is no longer the case. You only need the order number and last name to see track order information but the option to cancel an order is no longer presented on the page that comes up. To cancel over the phone you will need to present more than just a name and number as well (CC#). It is however never a good idea to give out too much information. Each piece of info given is one less that a would be wrong-doer needs to search for.

  314. G says

    Yeah- the baby dragon was a non-issue for me- the rectangular sets are really stunning and they sold out in a few hours- site completely crashed.

  315. Fosnock says

    @Bill

    It would be difficult if not imposable to mint a ASE in Denver because as far as I can tell they do not have the right presses at that location. I’m not sure where you are reading these articles about the Denver mint but if you read this blog you would know that the mint has already stated that the no-mint mark bullion coin in the 25th Anniversary set was minted in San Francisco

  316. vaughnster says

    I’m sorry but I just checked out those painted dragon silver coins at The Perth website and they are the most unattractive coins I’ve yet seen. Looks like a still from a cheap cartoon.

  317. Bill says

    Two cent comments, I need additional info.

    Let assume that an order for the silver dollar set is listed as “Backordered”.

    If all the sets have been sold, would a “backorder” stay in place until after the seven day return date? And, will the mint send returned sets to collectors who want to buy a coin set that has not been handled by another person or will they just fill an order with returned items?

    Please, no seconds for me…

  318. Broooster says

    5 single orders placed, first 3 are in progress, along with the last order. Order #4 is still on hold. Also, expected shipping date moves ahead 1 day everyday, its now 11/15. My first 4 orders were all placed by 12:11, last order did not get in until 2:30. Does first in first out really apply?

  319. Ikaika says

    I decided to go on Ebay today to check the amount of 25th Anniversary sets that are being sold. I couldn’t believe the number of sets on pre-sale. It seems like the entire Mint inventory is being listed. Ebay apparently waived the restriction placed earlier so anyone can list these sets before receiving from the Mint. Ebay would not miss the opportunity to cash in the fees. The true collector that was not able to purchase directly from the Mint will have to pay a premium on the secondary market now.

  320. David says

    1 order (5 sets) “in process”. Expected shipment now 11/15/2011. Order was placed at 12:34pm.

  321. Two Cents says

    To Bill [Nov. 1, 2011 @ 11:48 am]

    Where did you read that the non-mintmarked bullion coins in the 25th Anniv. Silver Sets were minted at the Denver Mint (“D”)? Was it in a numismatic publication, an official Mint press release, or in a blog?

    If the first two, please give us a citation or a link that we can look up. If the latter, then you have to take it with a huge grain of salt because unfounded rumors and wild speculations tend to start in blogs.

    On Oct. 12, 2011, Tom Jurkowsky, director of the Mint’s Office of Public Affairs, told Coin World (Oct. 31 issue) that the non-mintmarked bullion coins were minted at the San Francisco Mint.

    A month earlier, Deputy Mint Director Richard A. Peterson said in an announcement during an Aug. 19 collector forum at the American Numismatic Association’s World’s Fair of Money in Rosemont Illinois that the non-mintmarked bullion coin will be struck either at the San Francisco Mint or the West Point Mint (Coin World, Sept. 12 issue).

    As Fosnock said [1:48 pm], the Denver Mint does not have the presses to make the coins. Also, it would not be logistically practical to mint the coins at another mint, only to ship them to San Francisco, where the coins are already minted and stored, and where the sets are assembled. Finally, if the Denver Mint indeed minted the coins, the U. S. Mint would surely have included that information to increase the desirability and demand for the sets (three unique coins instead of two).

  322. Ron says

    I just want to remind people who have ordered from the Mint for a long time, they did limit what you could buy, by what you had bought in the past. Back in the 90’s when they had the Jefferson set, the Botanical Garden set, and Buffalo set, you were limited to what # of previous sets you had bought. If they did that now how many flippers would there be. I know from what I have spent at the Mint I would have been upset if I didn’t get this one. I assume from what I have read I just got in 4:21 est. I have received 2 e-mails from the Mint saying that I got them but they are backordered.

  323. Bill 2 says

    Sorry Bill, I didn’t realize you already had posted comments!

    I’m the Bill that asked about the Denver mint bullion coin. That was from this article:
    http://blog.jtcoins.com/the-coin-analyst-25th-anniversary-silver-eagle-sets-sell-out-in-4-½-hours-amid-widespread-ordering-problems.html
    or:
    http://www.coinweek.com/bullion-report/the-coin-analyst-25th-anniversary-silver-eagle-sets-sell-out-in-4-%c2%bd-hours-amid-widespread-ordering-problems/

    Also read Bullion from Philadelphia here, now there’s a new twist:
    http://reviews.ebay.com/Guide-to-American-Eagles-quot-25th-Anniversary-quot-Coins_W0QQugidZ10000000021071529

    I searched US Mint and could find no information on Bullion Mint, but I did find the Coin world article that you referenced.

    I have to agree, if the bullion coin was from Denver (or Philadelphia), that would increase demand/desirability that much more.

    Thank you both very much for your help!

    Bill

  324. Two Cents says

    Emmanuel, yes that would be a HUGE curveball if it’s true that the non-mintmarked bullion coins were minted in Denver. But I think it must be a mistake in the other blogger’s article.

    On Oct. 12, 2011, Tom Jurkowsky, director of the Mint’s Office of Public Affairs, told Coin World (Oct. 31 issue) that the non-mintmarked bullion coins were minted at the San Francisco Mint.

    A month earlier, Deputy Mint Director Richard A. Peterson said in an announcement during an Aug. 19 collector forum at the American Numismatic Association’s World’s Fair of Money in Rosemont Illinois that the non-mintmarked bullion coin will be struck either at the San Francisco Mint or the West Point Mint (Coin World, Sept. 12 issue).

    The Denver Mint does not have the presses to make the coins. Also, it would not be logistically practical to mint the coins at another mint, only to ship them to San Francisco, where the coins are already minted and stored, and where the sets are assembled. Finally, if the Denver Mint indeed minted the coins, the U. S. Mint would surely have publicized that information to increase the desirability and demand for the sets (three unique coins instead of two).

  325. Two Cents says

    According to the Mint’s policy as seen on their website,

    “The United States Mint’s order management system processes all orders on a first-in, first-served basis. First-in, first-served means that from the time a customer receives an order confirmation number, his or her order is processed in the sequence it was received … When a product is in a backorder status, as inventory becomes available it is assigned to the oldest orders first.”

    However, from reports on this blog, it appears that orders are not being processed in sequence (i.e. a person last three single-set orders are “in process,” while the first two single-set orders are “on hold”). This could indicate that there is a glitch in the Mint’s computer system, which I assume is largely automated.

    OR there are numerous problems getting the normal verifications done. Again, according to the Mint’s website,

    “If an order has outstanding issues-such as credit card holds, household order limit violations, or address verification conflicts, the next orders in line can be fulfilled before the one with outstanding issues. Once the outstanding issues are resolved, the order is reinserted next in line. Accordingly, such reinserted orders will not be processed for shipment in the same sequence as their order numbers.”

    I wonder if the Mint is having an issue with their computer system and/or verifying orders. That could explain why orders are being processed out of sequence.

    And just FYI, according to Tom Jurkowsky, director of the Mint’s Office of Public Affairs, as of 5 pm on the day that the 25th Anniv. Silver Set went on sale, 27,254 separate orders were received by the Mint, representing 100,709 sets. That comes to an average of around 3.7 sets per order.

  326. Clair Hardesty says

    The only thing to which FIFO applies is shipping. All of the in between stuff is haphazard and unimportant and does not indicate that FIFO has been discarded. Even when it is time to ship FIFO isn’t strictly followed but it is very close. Batches of orders are sent to fulfillment and once filled they go to shipping and then eventually out the door. Since PBGS has more than one person doing fulfillment, small batches of orders can switch places in the queue and it is even possible that a higher order number could ship a day before a lower one because of this. As stated in TCs post, issues can prevent an order from going to fulfillment or at least delay it and that order loses it’s place in line until it is cleared for fulfillment. The steps between hold and fulfillment (indicated by “in stock and reserved” don’t happen in any particular order. FIFO is controlled at the gate to fulfillment.

    As an indication of something I posted earlier, my AtB order from Friday went to “in stock and reserved” this morning and my CC was charged while the order status stayed at “in process”. That status has now changed to shipped and a tracking number is available but the package has not actually been delivered to UPS yet and may not be today at all. It will most likely get to them tomorrow and to me on Thursday. It does confirm that they are still upgrading single AtB orders to overnight shipping even with the price reduction to $229.95. This shows another example of where FIFO is not followed. Even though the 25th anniversary sets are almost surely in stock at the PBGS warehouse, they will not begin shipping them until they have vetted enough orders at the head of the list to begin fulfillment. In the meantime, they continue to ship orders for other products.

  327. Clair Hardesty says

    Oh yea, as best as I can see, all of the Denver rumors stem from that one coinweek blog and even the responders there (TC and myself included) have been telling the author that he is incorrect and/or asking for his source of that info. It’s just not true. Denver is first and foremost a circulation mint and only produces uncirculated versions of circulation coins for annual sets and the occasional uncirculated commemorative (like the 2001 Buffalo and this year’s Army clad half dollar). Denver has never been involved in the Eagle program and does not mint any proof coinage either.

  328. Louis says

    I was wrong about Denver. I posted a comment on the original article earlier today. The bullion coin is from SF.

  329. joe says

    If I recall correctly, there was a similar issue with the 2009 UHRDE regarding order of shipping. Perhaps Michael can verify, but there were complaints on that particular coin (over 2.5 years ago) of those who ordered first not having their coins shipped first and vice versa. The concern with that coin was that many who ordered first were wanting to PCGS FS or NGC ER slabbed coins, and the shipping order impacted the ability to get those labels.

    You can find more information on this by going back to Michael’s 2009 UHR articles on this blog and reviewing.

    FYI.

  330. jon says

    Emmanuel says:
    November 1, 2011 at 4:12 pm
    Here is another curveball. According to the article here: http://www.coinweek.com/bullion-report/the-coin-analyst-25th-anniversary-silver-eagle-sets-sell-out-in-4-%C2%BD-hours-amid-widespread-ordering-problems/

    the bullion coin will be coming out of Denver making this set have 3 unique coins. This is the first time ive heard of this but there doesnt seem to be any official source. Can anyone confirm this?

    The author of that blog (Louis) corrects himself in the comments section. Says it will be minted in San Francisco not Denver.

  331. jim says

    Numbers just don’t add up
    if we starded at 38324xxx and they sold 27,254 order. I would think 38352xxx should be the cut off not 38380xxx unless they dont count by one.

    27,254 separate orders were received by the Mint, representing 100,709 sets. That comes to an average of around 3.7 sets per order.

  332. Shutter says

    Numbers just don’t add up
    if we starded at 38324xxx and they sold 27,254 order. I would think 38352xxx should be the cut off not 38380xxx unless they dont count by one.

    Could be a number of things. Could be people trying to buy other products (unlikely as someone trying to buy a bag of quarters would have given up quickly). Could be orders judged invalid right away and cancelled. Could be the order # is assigned when you first add something into a shopping cart and aren’t recycled if the order is abandoned before paying (e.g. all those people trying to improve their odds using multiple computers).

  333. Clair Hardesty says

    I am actually surprised that that the average order was for 3.7 sets. that means that there aren’t very many individual sealed sets that will be on the market since I would guess many single set orders are going into collections as is. While the change from hold to in process is a good thing, your order isn’t truly confirmed until the item status changes from a date to “in stock and reserved”. That change should generally happen in FIFO order.

  334. pl.mark says

    If that CoinWorld article is correct in reporting that all of the 100,709 sets sold represent 27,254 individual orders, then something is definitely going on. In a previous post, I mentioned that “[from TX] knows of the situation and has contacted the proper officials [at the mint].” This was the response that I received from a staffer after sending in a letter via computer (similar to email) to his office. I decided to write the letter because the household limit did not seem fair given the number of people who were placed on the waiting list. The person “from Texas” is Rep. Ron Paul, who chairs the House subcommittee on domestic and international monetary policy. His committee has direct oversight over the mint and he is the same person who was not thrilled about the mint not producing proof AE coins in 2009. The staffer would not elaborate more than what I was told. It seems now that anything is possible with these sets.

  335. In the Middle says

    All this moaning and groaning. You either get your coins or you don’t. Good Luck, Bad Luck, Who Knows. If you feel you were grieved then complain, have fun, call the mint, the director, Ron Paul, heck call Barry O himself but at the end of the day, YOU LOST, and LOSING STINKS. Americans Hate Losing, I get that.

    The moral of the story is that the Mint is in the business to sell coins. They did that, in about two to three weeks these puppies will ship and the mint will get paid, easy money for them.

    I was lucky enough, and know how to work technology well enough to ensure that the 14 minutes I spent ordering these coins didn’t take too much out of my day. If any lesson should be learned by those who didn’t get a set is; log in 15 minutes early, always order the maximum amount (if you have the financial means, you can always return them), learn the shortcuts to checking out, and know what to do if a browser starts crapping out. That should help for the next big thing coming down the pike some day,

    So relax people, you missed out on 5 coins, it’s not like someone took your pension, or Social Security or your first born. Stay Safe and Happy Collecting.

  336. DDD says

    If your order is “In Process”, does this mean you stand a good chance to receive the order (if there are no other issues w/CC, over limit ordering, etc)?

  337. birdman says

    I am expecting to be disappointed and not receive any coins; however I am curious if my order at 384001** stands any chance at all??? What do you guys think??

  338. BigHock says

    This CoinWorld article has some detailed information about the sell out of the 25th Anniversary Silver Eagle Sets. By 5:00 PM ET, there were 27,254 orders placed for 100,709 sets, with an average of 3.7 sets per order.

  339. chris says

    If you are coin collector and have a real desire to own this historical ASE set you can pick one up in the aftermarket. There is a premium now but just wait a year and the price will stabilize. I would like a set of the ’08 buffaloes for which I had no money to make the purchase when they were available from the mint. I am saving up now to get the full set. It will be expensive but I know that I will enjoy owning these coins in OGP.

  340. vaughnster says

    I think Clair is correct in her comments about the low numbers of single sealed sets being available. I tried to break up my order that way as to have options later whether it was for grading, keeping or re-selling. The site was so slow that I didn’t want to be so foolish and miss out that I just ordered the five sets in one order. I am grateful for that after reading all the comments about people not even able to get on the Mint’s web site at all. Last Thursday was basically an all-or-nothing 4 1/2 hour ordeal.

  341. John says

    Today my one order of 5 sets changed to “In Process”.

    My confirmation email shows 2:47PM but the confirmation page never loaded so I don’t know exatly when my order was placed.

  342. LD says

    38364xxx and 38397xxx both just went to “in process” status showing backorder and expected shipping date of 11/16 and 11/17. Still holding out hope!???

  343. Parker says

    Yup, my other orders placed at 6pm EST are now all IN PROCESS.

    Is the Mint just toying with us or are there really many cancellation that went on to those on the waitlist?

  344. davo says

    My order status according to the US Mint is “in process” status showing “backorder” and expected shipping date of 11/16. I ordered my sets by 1:11pm so feel pretty good now. Hoping it will say reserved and then shipped! I’m excited to get this and see the nice coins.

  345. LD says

    Samuel,
    I am using the time in the “track order” screen of the mint website which shows order time of 6:45PM ord # 38397xxx. Who knows how this all works really!! If it made since would it be so much fun?

  346. Piotr says

    There is a difference between “in process” and “in stock and reserved”. The mint just said that your order is OK, meaning you did not order more than 5. Next step is fulfilling these orders. If there were lots of over the household limit orders then let’s hope some wait list orders get some sets.

  347. PrinceVegeta says

    What does “in process” really mean? I placed three different order, and the latter ones, around 5 pm EST is now in process, but the one at 4:29 is still on hold. It would be a dream come true to get all my order, but I wouldn’t mind just getting one of the order for just one set. My number at 4:29 is 38370***, and the one at 5 pm is 38377***.
    I hope the real collector out there can get one set. I just started collecting, so I know how it feel to miss out on something. All I want is two set, if I’m lucky enough to get 5, I’ll try to sale it at a fair price for real collector out here. Haha, I don’t think I’ll get 5 set or maybe not even 1. We’ll just have to see.

  348. Clair Hardesty says

    In process (an order status) does not mean much. Email times aren’t reliable either. My third order email came in way after the fifth order one. The expected ship dates are totally generic and arbitrary, not based on reality at all. What really counts is when your item status changes from a date to “in stock and reserved” that point is as close to an order confirmation as the mint gets. Your CC should be charged shortly after that happens but it could take a few days. The order status usually still says in process after the item status changes then the order status changes to shipped and a tracking number becomes available but it won’t work right away because the package hasn’t actually been given to UPS yet. These will come UPS, signature required, overnight. My Glacier AtB (ordered Friday) was shipped last night and it arrived this morning, 15 hours after UPS got the box.

  349. simon says

    “in process” with the cancel box gone means they have sent in a charge to your cc. Other than that you are just on the fulfillment list.

  350. mookem says

    I placed an order on Monday, Oct. 31 for the ATB Glacier coin. It had a status of backordered and expected to ship 11/08. I received the coin today. That’s service my friends.

  351. Tim says

    Methinks something is very fishy, that on E*** there are many completed sales where it is either a private listing winner or many brand new members with very low feedback numbers, or none. Hmmmm, most unusual. Surely there are not any multiple ids for one person or people bidding up the items on behalf of acquaintances………………….

  352. vaughnster says

    Tim, you’re probably right and it should raise a red flag with bidders. Most reputable sellers will not accept bids from new members with zero feedback, especially for big ticket items. However, bidders have to take responsibility and not bid blindly because some other “questionable” bidders bid up the price. If someone is that gullible, they get what they deserve.

  353. Tim says

    I wouldn’t bid on any of them with a “ten foot PayPal account”, like vaughnster says, anyone that is bidding need to pay very, very,very, close attention to the others. And yes Bob the shill bidding to.

  354. Konde says

    Order # 38397xxx at 6:50pm “in process”, a step up from “on hold”. The Mint must have canceled a lot of orders. I was not expecting that to happen since I ordered the set at the end of my work hour. I still have hope now.
    Good luck to all.

  355. Tim says

    There were people that figured that with the system becoming jammed up from the sell-out, that somehow the Mint would miss double orders and so forth. By allowing more time to sift through the orders before any ship this eliminates the cheaters. We are beginning to see more later orders bear fruit.

  356. Francisco J.Z. says

    I have been collecting coins for several decades and this is the first time in my life that to witness this crazy spectacle; sixhundred plus listings on Ebay for such sets; sets that “buyers” do not have in their possesion; listings that violate Ebay rules and regulations but of course Ebay looks the other way; listings that will be cancelled for items not received; items that were never shipped; items that “buyers” never HAD to sell; it all seems to me that people don’t have anything better to do with their time and money – lucky them, LOL; and then, you have PayPal, lol….the biggest loser company in the world as the cash processing plant having to deal with said transactions , LOL; events like this, give numismatics a bad rep; AIMHO

  357. Eric The Red says

    I tried for hours and could not complete my on line order finally when I got through with my order for one set 3840XXXX. It is still on hold but reading this blog I’m sure it will be cancelled. This was a real cluster!#&*. How is this fair for us collectors who wanted 1 set for our collection? How could the mint not realize the army of flippers would be out in force? How could the mint screw this up so bad? So much for customer loyalty.

  358. mike says

    3840xxxx
    Order Status: Your order request is in process
    1 unit backordered. Expected to ship on 11/17/2011.

    still not holding my breath

  359. Konde says

    Eric

    Your number is not that far from mine. 37397xxx. Maybe by tomorrow you’ll find out. At the time they put up the waiting list, mine was some 27,000 orders behind. I have a feeling the Mint figured out the way to cross check and cancel those multiple orders and those selling on Ebay. I could not believe they could fill my order. But at least today it showed “in process” if that even means anything. I believe it when I received the tracking number. Good luck.

  360. Parker says

    The more I think about it, the more I think the Mint is toying with us…
    How can orders at 7pm also change from on hold to in progress?
    This just show that in progress means nothing…. OR the waitlist means nothing; either way, I guess the Mint is having its fun with us !

  361. Silver Sam says

    To all the number crunching order number analyzing folks here,

    My order is still on hold and I have reviewed Clair’s very insightful explanation of what wording from the mint means!

    My order is #38378xxx….still on hold which I guess means nothing…..not yet in process which I guess means nothing….but I believe my credit information etc. is all in order….

    Just wondering……what do you think my chances are…..given the scrutiny the
    Mint appears to be employing????

    Thanks in advance for any input!

  362. Clair Hardesty says

    The change from hold to in process is pretty much without meaning. About the only thing the event proves is that your order is not in some sort of limbo. Unfortunately, the mint simply does not operate like other retail enterprises. For all of those people on EBay claiming to have confirmed orders and/or confirmed or scheduled ship dates, the mint does not work like that. You get the confirmation that your order was received and entered into the system but until the item status changes to “in stock and reserved” there is no assurance that your order will ship as requested. The hard truth is that the only absolute confirmation is “your order has shipped” and a tracking number is available. It is very frustrating for those who don’t regularly order from the mint and for low demand, truly in stock items, when there is not something like this set gumming up the works, they actually are prompt and accurate. Unfortunately they suck at taking, approving, and fulfilling products like this one. They get the job done and in all but a few cases done right but they do not deliver personal attention or track orders through their internal system.

  363. Rich says

    The problem you were having was with the Internet Explorer. I tried for an hour and a half from noon on, at 1:30 I tried Firefox and it took me about 5 minutes. Firefox waited for an answer, it never didn’t respond. Maybe this will be useful in the future.

  364. Silver Sam says

    So Clair,

    It appears you have gained your insight from ordering many times through the years. I enjoy your clarifications……always

    Any prognosis on my situation above????

  365. Coin Man says

    If you compare these to the 2009 Ultra Gold Eagle, this set is much more affordable, a very unique set and will have larger appeal to a broader population therefor I see this set going much higher

  366. David says

    My order (5 sets) placed at 12:34pm is in process with a ship date now set at 11/17/2011. So the ship date seems to be drifting…

  367. Frankie says

    I would truly appreciate if anyone only posts if the following occurs:
    a) order cancellation by the mint, or
    b) order went into “in stock and reserved” mode
    and please include the first 5 digits of the order number in case of a) or b).
    Otherwise, we will have another 500+ more or less meaningless posts – just like this one… 🙂

  368. Harry Baskins says

    Just wondering if that Australia Dragon set of 4 with mintage 1500 is worth more than the 25th Anniversary set. I checked with Talisman and they are not selling the Dragon set except to previous series purchasers.

  369. birdman says

    I called US Mint customer service to infer about my order number 3840xxxx…They basically said that all I could do was wait. They were unable to inform me about my position on the list. I decreased my number of sets ordered from 4 to 2 in order to give others a chance (not that it will probably matter or make a difference to anyone….)

  370. microdon says

    38376xxx is my order and just went to “in process” with possible ship date of 11/17. I am wondering whether Mint checks the history of people on the “wait list” to determine what kind of buyer they have been in recent years. Otherwise comments like those from Silver Sam suggest where at least one likely cut off is, as he is only 2000 orders behind mine. But to be honest, I think Clair and Frankie have pretty well summed up the situation, especially Frankie’s request for blog entries to note in the future their first five digits and that order went to “in stock and reserved”

  371. Tim says

    Way to go birdman, it will matter to at least 2 people that you have now helped. Just imagine if everyone did as you.

  372. Wes says

    Mint has put a statement on catalog home page saying they are reviewing the way they put out the product to market. Basically saying they #$%^%! up

  373. LD says

    Based on Tubach’s post… anyone with order numbers past 3834xxxx might as well just go ahead and cancel now and avoid risking total rejection from the U.S. Mint.
    That would certainly help me move up the waiting list…LOL

  374. Silver Sam says

    birdman,

    That was an especially nice gesture on your part! It would really be nice if all those who are assured of 5 sets, would cancel 1, in support of their unlucky silver comrades out here.

  375. Wes says

    No real collector should cancel any orders so someone else on wait list might get one. Chances are the dealers and flippers also have orders on the wait list.

  376. Clair Hardesty says

    I just got an email from the mint apologizing for the difficulties on the 27th and promising to figure out how to do a better job in the future. For those of you who were hoping for a post sale household limit reduction this letter is a handful of nails in that coffin. It makes it quite clear that the lessons learned will be used going forward and mentions the upgrade of the ordering system next year and that the new system should be in place by next fall. If we want to continue to be able to purchase popular offerings from the mint, we should all let them know that the new system needs protections against programmed ordering and any other scheme used by those circumventing the household limits. We can’t stop them but we can keep them from taking advantage of an efficient order system.

  377. Bossman says

    Everytime I order something from the mint that is a hit the reps always says they are looking at ways to improve the site etc.. blah blah.. I wish I had a nickel for everytime I heard or read that. They screwed the majority of us with that complete BS 5 per household limit. I seriously think I’m done with collecting anything new from the mint. Anything to appease the dealers = the US MINT.

  378. Bossman says

    How can someone contact the mint via email? I wish to express my thoughts directly to them. I don’t want to call because I don’t want to go off on the rep because they have nothing to do with how the mint operates.

  379. vaughnster says

    Couldn’t Trubach’s cancellation be due to incorrect info or a credit card issue? I wouldn’t cancel any orders on a wait list based on just one order.

  380. Samuel says

    People got cancellation should know the reason, and should not mislead people. 3834xxxx I guess it is around 1:00PM.

  381. dave says

    david : i see we ordered around the same time and i have the same exact info as you, funny how the date keeps shifting they should just put 11/30/11 LOL

    we shall seeeeeeeeee!!

  382. Sean11 says

    My order number is 3840xxxx- I ordered after work at about 5:30 pacific time- Please to see- Order Status: Your order request is in process
    1 unit backordered. Expected to ship on 11/17/2011- Hope that it goes throught. I’ve been ordering religiously for 22 years.

  383. jim says

    This just came from the mint
    Dear United States Mint Customer:

    We are fully aware of the difficulties many customers encountered last week with the release of the American Eagle 25th Anniversary Set. We would like you to know that we have undertaken an aggressive review of how we brought the product to market so we can better serve all of our customers in the future. Dick Peterson, the Deputy Director of the United States Mint, has also directed that the bureau review all future product offerings to ensure that we apply to them the lessons we learned from the marketing of the American Eagle 25th Anniversary Set.

    One of the principal sources of frustration was our web and phone order-taking system. As many of you know, we are in the process of updating our order management system. Our current system is very outdated and we recognize that it does not serve our customers well. Accordingly, we recently selected a contractor that will develop and implement our new system—one that will be modern and comparable to other top-rated retail Web sites. Unfortunately, this transition will take some time; we are anticipating that the new system will be in place by fall 2012.

    Our aim is to work earnestly to ensure that the inconvenience and frustration that our regular customers may have encountered last week is mitigated in 2012 as we re-examine our product launch strategies and systems. We value our relationship with you and are committed to serving you professionally and responsively. You deserve no less!

    The United States Mint

  384. AB says

    I was trying to check my order status on US mint website, but I got this message:
    Track Order Not Found
    Sorry, your order was not found.
    Does anybody have same issue? Please let me know

  385. Rudyard says

    Here is a little different perspective:
    On Tuesday, Mattel offered some exclusive Hot Wheels at noon. I was able to log in early. There were no delays in page loads. I loaded my cart and checked out in less than 3 minutes, yet the cars sold out.

    Here is the point. If the mint fixes their ordering system, and makes it possible to place 100,000 orders a minute. This item would have sold out in a minute and you would fill up this blog with people complaining that they forgot to order until 12:02

  386. says

    Jim,

    I got the same letter too. I wonder if they’re still getting an earful from customers about the situation. I imagine it would help them a lot to just ship the sets as soon as possible and not hold them back too much longer, because I’m sure at least some of the complaints are coming from customers anxious about not having gotten their set yet (plus if you don’t have someone like Clair on hand to explain why the backorder date keeps rising, I’m sure that is stressing people out too).

    Rudyard,

    I find it highly unlikely that a one per household coin release, with a mintage of 100,000, would sell out in under 5 minutes. As the system presently stands, dealers and flippers can essentially DDoS the Mint’s website, with only a few normal collectors lucky enough to get through. The average collector will not spend 3-5 hours on multiple computers hammering the reload button like most users of this website. They will get discouraged after 1-2 tries and log off. Most of these coins, under the present system, will fall directly into the hands of coin dealers who will sell them at double the initial price or more.

    A new system, with a streamlined website with a smooth ordering process, CANNOT be worse than this. It lets the most dedicated collectors and ordinary collectors order without a hitch right at 12 noon. Even if the sets only last for an hour, it will be much, much easier for ordinary people to get the coins if the screens on their website don’t take 20+ minutes to load. While there will be complainers, there will ALWAYS be complainers. The question is how to create a smooth ordering process that ensures the most regular customers get their product. As it stands now dealers like APMEX or Modern Coin Mart will get the huge majority of these sets and will remarket them at $600-$700 or greater.

  387. Clair Hardesty says

    The potential issue with a vastly improved system at the mint is the possibility of dealers being able to use programmed buying to grab all of the available product in just a few minutes. Hopefully the mint will institute safeguards against programmed buying (the type what you see in the graphic image is commonly used) do that dealers have to continue to use humans to obtain popular products and are not able to have the accounts in place and ready to go and blast orders from a list of perhaps thousands of buyers. If we don’t protect the mint from such a possibility, it will happen.

  388. J A says

    Order 38337***
    “in process”
    Expected to ship 11/18/2011

    By the way, in my experience I’ve discovered that the order is secure once the “cancel” button is removed from the order status screen.

  389. Clair Hardesty says

    That usually does not happen until after the item status changes to “in stock and reserved” although the two events can occur together and the CC charge could possibly show first. When it happens, it should happen to a whole group of early orders.

  390. Brad says

    Walt,

    There shouldn’t be any pending charge against your account until the item status switches to “In Stock and Reserved.”

  391. Ikaika says

    @ CaptainOverkill and Clair

    Both made some good points. For the little guy (We the Collectors) to have a chance to compete with the barracudas (The Dealers) is for the US Mint to keep their ordering system as is. Some might not agree, but as a collector, I was always able to order the sets I wanted (20th Ann. ASE set, UHRDE, Lincoln Chronicle set, 2010-P HS, 25th Ann. ASE) despite the issues with their ordering system. I too complained, but we have to look at the bigger picture.

  392. Clair Hardesty says

    Removal of the cancel button usually coincides with the item status changing from a date to “in stock and reserved” but they are not always exactly coincident. Both events mean that your order has been, or is about to be, delivered to fulfillment.Then your CC will be charged and if the charge is accepted you have the closest thing the mint has to an order confirmation.

  393. Birdman says

    @ Ikaika

    I disagree with keeping the system as is. I spent 2 hours attempting to get through to buy a 25th ASE set. I was using one cell phone and the internet simultaneously. I am on the waiting list; however, I do not expect to receive the coins. This is a huge waste of my time. It is ridiculous that I should have to take 2 hours of my own time to ATTEMPT to purchase an item. IMHO…

  394. Ikaika says

    @ Birdman

    I do not disagree with you, but is makes me wonder how many of the 100K sets were purchased by the dealers. I am sure all of their network made purchases for 5 sets. How many of those could have gone to a collector? Later we will see them bragging at the HSN and selling them for $1000 each.

  395. Brad says

    Yeah, I’m also a little afraid of a new “state-of-the-art” website ordering system. As bad as the current one is for hot, limited items, up until the other day I had NEVER failed to make an order with it for those items that I wanted. This case proved to be different, though. After fruitlessly trying to order for the first hour via the website, I started dialing the phone number as well. After 17 minutes of that, I finally got through over the phone and placed the order that way. I might have succeeded via the website later on before the wait list notice, but it turned out not to be necessary.

    If there’s a new system that can handle the high traffic with no troubles, those items might sell out in a matter of MINUTES, not hours. If you’re not ready to go right off the bat, you might still miss out. The only good thing about the current system is that despite your troubles, you can rest somewhat easy knowing that EVERYONE is having those same troubles. Things may vanish in the blink of an eye later under the new system, so the old saying seems to apply here: Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it!

  396. Coin Collector says

    The date changing doesn’t seem to mean anything, as they seem to be keeping it two weeks ahead of the current date and (so far) they seem to be doing it to everyone.

  397. Jon Jackson says

    AB @3:13am
    That has happened to me a couple of times. I think it might happen when the system is being worked on. Try again and if your order doesn’t show up then give the Mint a call.

  398. Clair Hardesty says

    My main point about a new system is that is could be abused (and will be if it is possible) and that something very simple can prevent programmed buying which I see as the main threat. The current system prevents programmed buying by breaking down, making automated responses difficult at best. It also acts a lot like a lottery, randomly letting some orders complete. I completely agree with many that the household limit should have been one or two but I also think that five was a reasonable number if it was base on the 2006 set sales performance. Simply looking at the 2006 set and adjusting for the differences you can make a very good case that this set as presented should have taken a week to sell out.

  399. Brad says

    I’m sure that’s it exactly, the Mint was simply caught off-guard. Their fatal mistake was not taking into account that times are different today than they were in 2006. There’s no WAY the 2006 set would last 2.5 months before selling out now. The spectacular performance of that set on the secondary market is what fueled the sales of the 2011 set in the first place. Both those who bought the 2006 set and those that missed out on that opportunity wanted to make sure they did not miss out on THIS one! I had no doubt there would be a one-day sellout.

  400. Two Cents says

    It’s hard for any company, much less the Mint, to accurately gauge the response of the buying public and to prepare for that response. Most companies can just make more of the product or order more of them from the manufacturer. For the Mint, however, once it announces the mintage limit, it cannot (or shouldn’t) change the mintage to accommodate a higher (or lower) demand.

    In the case of the 25th Anniversary Silver Set, the Mint sorely failed in its attempt to balance the mintage/household limit and demand. The problem was exacerbated by an antiquated ordering system. (This is also true of other low-mintage, high-demand coins.)

    The Mint needs more information to assist it in its marketing and manufacturing decisions. The Mint should seek out numismatic organizations, dealers, and collectors for their advice on what to expect from the buying (collector and non-collector) public. It should take advantage of the wealth of knowledge and historical awareness that numismatists can offer.

    The Mint already has two artistic groups helping it select coin designs – it should also have a numismatic group to help it make numismatic decisions.

  401. Wylson says

    I remember my 2006 order for the 20th annivery set. I ordered 2. I cancelled. Regret, but I need to make the mortgage payment.

  402. pl.mark says

    Silver Sam:

    You need to call customer service as soon as possible and find out what the problem is, since it seems that your credit card information cannot be verified. If you are on the waiting list, you most likely are near the top of it, and most likely will be receiving a set, but you need to clear up the credit card issue if it is not too late already.

  403. jim says

    Have you seen how many of these sets are on E-bay? Very few set are up for aucation. Whats up with this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  404. Gary says

    I think ebay is taking them down…..no more pre sales……that should really change some things on Ebay…no more pre sales of regular silver eagles.no more pre sales of graded eagles….no more pre sales of silver eagle rolls…
    NO MORE PRE SALES….if you dont have it…you can sell it!! At least until Ebay starts loosing money and the you will be able to pre sell again!!
    People have been pre selling silver eagles every year for as long as i can remember…i dont get where these are any different?? Too many people crying about it!!!

  405. Tim says

    Many are still on there. Bidders are bidding up past some buy it now listings. Some sellers very low feedback, some bidders very low feedback. It stinks and if it stinks, stay away from these crooks and scam artists !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  406. vaughnster says

    Looks like we’ll have to wait til Monday at the soonest for the much anticipated “in stock and reserved” message for our orders…

  407. Konde says

    Most of the sales on ebay are nothing but scams. No one in the right mind would believe how the bid price be higher than the BIN pricing. They just generate the appearance of completed sales where in fact you don’t loose anything as buyers or sellers if both agree to cancel the sales after the sales closed. Among friends and family that should not be too difficult to do.

  408. Tim says

    The “cancel” box does not appear if you check your order with order number and last name. It still appears if you have an account with the Mint and login that way. When it disappears on there good thing are coming. By the way I ordered 2 sets only.

  409. Art says

    Tim, interesting observation. The mint apparently is not allowing an order cancellation unless you are logged in. For security purposes no doubt.

  410. F.J.Z. says

    The problem with Ebay and “Playpen” sorry PayBud is that there is no “seller” protection only “buyer” protection; what happens, say if I sold someone a 1995w PR70 silver eagle and ship it insured, return receipt, etc.etc.etc. and me being such a nice guy included a little bonus, say a regular strike eagle; if later the buyer claims he only received the regular strike eagle and not the 1995w silver eagle , what would happen? you can kiss your 1995w eagle and money goodbye- you LOSE both; it happened to me but with different coins; with PayBud’s claim process , later the appeal, I even went as far as filing a complaint with the FBI – cybertheft; guess what? nobody cared; for Ebay the Buyer is always right no matter what the seller does, says, or raps about; so good luck to whoever is selling left and right on that over rated , over hyped , useless “auction site”…… good luck;;;;;there should be another venue to peddle with coins and another venue to pay for the peddled goods besides PayBud. AIMHO

  411. A&L Futures says

    CoinNews.net has an article about what you guys are talking about. I stumbled across it early this morning.

  412. J pay says

    the main difference between 2006 and now is that there are many more peoply collecting eagles now than then just look at bullion sales since the 2006 year

  413. J pay says

    the main difference between 2006 and now is that there are many more people collecting eagles now than then just look at bullion sales since the 2006 year

  414. Clair Hardesty says

    Bullion sales aren’t really a very good indicator of collectors that are interested in numismatic items. A major reason for the popularity of the Silver Eagle bullion coins (apart from the interest in silver itself) is the backing if the US government and the very low markup that they are sold at. APs purchase SAE bullion at $2.00 over spot, making it one of the cheapest ways to obtain guaranteed silver billion. The private mint rounds and ingots are usually a little cheaper but not as liquid, especially outside the US.

  415. whitelightning says

    I to do not get this ALSO. I was on HOLD to 11/12-16, then went to in PROCESS 11/19-20 , now to OPEN 11/21 ??????????????

  416. Dan says

    Clair the US government doesnt back silver eagles in any way, They guarentee there purity. Its the dollar they back with the full faith and trust of there bankrupt government

  417. J A says

    Order 38337XXX just changed to ‘In Process’ over the weekend.

    Cancel buttons still there.

    New shipping date pushed back from 11/18 to 11/22.

  418. Parker says

    J A ; This info you’ve provided is pretty MUCH USELESS. as does the info provided by Winn.
    Pls QUIT posting useless IN PROGRESS comments; they do NOT mean anything.

  419. J A says

    Parker that’s your opinion, if you don’t like a comment or don’t find it useful just move on and keep reading.

    There are others who want to know the progress of the orders in the Mint’s system so please allow each reader to decide for themselves if the information is useful or not.

  420. Jake says

    Parker is right, the information is useless. I will prefer that you hold off on the useless information.

    However, please tell us when the cancel button is gone. That would be useful.

  421. Piotr says

    I actually would like to know if there are any “on hold” orders left. Also I think the mint will not progress untill they cancel everything over 100K. Any cancelation is a valuable data. I haven’t heard of many yet.

  422. vaughnster says

    My order is now “in stock and reserved” with the cancel box still there.
    Order # 3832xxxx

  423. Piotr says

    I had 5 orders placed separately. Between 12:45 and 2:30 all are in stock and reserved. Shouldn’t be longer than a week now.

  424. Clair Hardesty says

    All five of my orders have gone to “in stock and reserved” but still have the cancel option and no CC action yet.

  425. Alex says

    My order is now “in stock and reserved” . Order #3833xxxx Does anyone knows how long it usually takes untill they will ship it out after status “in stock and reserved”?

  426. Clair Hardesty says

    Someone is already trying to post an “in stock and reserved” set on EBay and wants $1795 for a single sealed set on a buy it now listing.

  427. Clair Hardesty says

    Two of my cancel buttons have been removed (first two orders) and the CC has been hit with holds (pending charges) for them.

  428. Clair Hardesty says

    The US mint sometimes ships the same day that they charge your CC but not always. Sometimes it takes a couple days to ship. My recent AtB shipped same day but I expect that as all of these sets start to ship that many will not ship until the next day or even later. If you order is being prepared for shipment on Friday afternoon, it might not actually ship until Monday. Sometimes you will even get a tracking number the day before it actually ships.

  429. vaughnster says

    I’m guessing many of us should have our sets by the end of the week! It’s going to be almost anti-climatic after the nearly two weeks of waiting and worrying. What are we going to be able to look forward to?? 🙂

  430. Michael in Bama says

    Here they come!!!!! Looking for tracking numbers tonight. I am trading 1 set (sealed) for a 20th anniversary set and a 2001 Buffalo set, all in OGP.

  431. NaplesMike says

    Just had a change to my order status. Reads “in stock and reserved” My order was for two sets and was placed at 2:27pm est. Order number is 3834xxxx.

  432. says

    The cancel boxes have disappeared from my order and my friend’s order as well. I got in about 1:30 EST on order day and he got in at 12:15 EST. And to the person who asked, In Stock and Reserved is essentially a pre-ship status. The sets will almost certainly ship either tonight or tomorrow night. I have never had “In Stock and Reserved” last for more than a day before shipping commenced, though others may have had different experiences.

  433. RichardS says

    Can anyone provide me with an internet address to contact the Mint? I want to voice my frustrations with the October 27 situation. Thanks.

  434. Wes says

    Has the Mint ever combined more than one order going to the same place to save on shipping cost? If they do that with these sets for people who placed more than one individual separate order that would ruin any plans to have some graded and keep some in OGP.

  435. Clair Hardesty says

    No, the mint will not combine orders. They will ship as ordered. Sometimes they will split an order but they never combine them.

  436. lobodave says

    The cancel button is no longer on my order and I have changed to “In stock and reserved” !

  437. Wes says

    Thanks for the quick response. Like everyone else here my orders have been In stock and reserved with the cancel boxes gone. Both orders went through in first 20 minutes.

  438. Broooster says

    4 of my 5 sets have the cancelled button removed, the 5th set has “in stock and reserved” but still has the cancel button. My bank account is showing 4 of the 5 hits. The 5th order went in a little later than the first 4, it went in at 2:30. Maybe tomorrow for that set.
    Also, what happened to all of the E-Bay sales?? I only see 1 set for sale, I can’t believe E-Bay managed to take them all down at once. Any thoughts ??

  439. VA Dave says

    First of three orders changed to “in stock and reserved” Order 38340XXX, 2 sets made @ 1:39pm. Cancel button removed. Other two orders 38368XXX, made @ 4:08pm est, 1 set and 38397XXX, 2 sets made at 6:54pm est, still in process. Not holding breath for the late order – that’s on hold. Expect the 4:08PM order to change status tonight/tomorrow – hopefully.

  440. VA Bob says

    RichardS – It’s the government, they could not care less about complaints. If you’re lucky enough to get a survey form, that’s as good as it gets. There are some phone numbers floating around as well. Even if you get a sympathic ear, I doubt much will happen. The Mint said it’s upgrading their ording system, ETA sometime in 2012. I’m sure that would be their response. If you really want your fustrations noted, I would recommend you write your congressman/woman instead, it will get a little more attention.

  441. alan says

    thats strange ,all the years i have ordered from the mint,they never charge my credit card until it was shipped

  442. alan says

    matter of fact,my order says in stock and reserved,my card has not been charged yet,and it won”t until they ship

  443. Piotr says

    Order 3834***. Placed @ 2:29. CC just got charged this AM and the cancel box vanished this morning as well.

  444. FedUp says

    Take a chill people. It’s only a box with a few coins in it. No need for updates to your order every 60 seconds. Thanks.

  445. Clair Hardesty says

    Wow, you get the prize for the earliest time and lowest time I have seen around the web. The first batch of “shipped” orders will probably be delivered to UPS this afternoon or evening and arrive tomorrow morning.

  446. iasoup says

    Order 38353***. Placed @ 2:53. CC not charged yet; however, cancel box vanished this morning as well.

  447. Walt says

    I noticed that the new order management system for the mint is being ordered from a British-based vendor at a price tag of ~$100 million. I don’t know all the details but with all the unemployment in this country and our government trying to reduce it how come this $100 million couldn’t have gone to a US firm? How much of this type of spending is still taking place and is there anyone monitoring it? Your thoughts. Order placed 9/19/2011.

  448. simon says

    Wow! $100 mil to a UK business for software – what are Oracle, IBM, HP, etc doing – sleeping ? That is why I watch labels these days when I make any purchases.

  449. alan says

    COINS WERE SHIPPED TODAY GOT UPS TRACKING NUMBER,VERY EXCITED ,SHOULD HAVE THEM THURSDAY OR FRIDAY

  450. Chris B says

    @ Parker 1:17pm

    I am also curious about your cancellation. My order #3838xxxx is still in process with a shipping date of 11/22

  451. says

    Art, I called the Mint first thing after updating my information on the website. They said my order looked fine and changed the credit card number for me over the phone. I should be okay. *crosses fingers*

    Hopefully mine will ship soon, I think I almost didn’t make it in time.

  452. Clair Hardesty says

    If your order actually ships today it will be delivered tomorrow (perhaps unless you are outside the US). The mint only uses UPS for next day air service so the package should arrive tomorrow morning and will require an adult signature. Follow the tracking link to see if UPS has the package yet. They probably won’t get it until later today or tonight. Sometimes orders that are marked as shipped miss the last UPS pick up for the day and do not actually ship until the next day (then another day for shipping itself). This is especially frustrating when it happens on Friday because then it is Tuesday before receipt.

  453. Travis says

    order 38366XXX @ 3:59 PM still on backorder, no CC activity yet. hopefully it will get shipped tomorrow.

  454. Tallon says

    Here’s the latest from UPS on #383250XX:

    1ZE1988X242435xxxx

    Updated: 11/08/2011 3:52 P.M. Eastern Time

    Order Processed: Ready for UPS

    A UPS shipping label has been created. Once the shipment arrives at our facility, the tracking status–including the scheduled delivery date–will be updated.

    Label Created On:
    11/08/2011

    Special Instructions:

    Signature Required

    Additional Information

    Shipped/Billed On:
    11/08/2011
    Type:
    Package
    Weight:
    15.10 lbs

    Shipping Information

    To:
    XXXXXXX, NY, US

    Shipped By

    UPS Next Day Air®

  455. Tim says

    Called today to check my order and the mint Lady was super friendly and told me my order had just shipped and it was number 3 !!! I had ordered at 12:07 2 sets. Must have been one of the earliest. I have also noticed a lot of fellow collectors further down the line that were part of the waiting list are getting theirs as well, YYYEEEEEAAAAHHHH !

  456. alan says

    got my set was looking at the information card that come inside the coin.The information from the mint ,before the sets were ever struck said,the one eagle is from san fran ,but no mint mark ,the card inside with the coins states it could be from san fran or west point ,is this a mistake on the authenticity card or is this a true statement

  457. Clair Hardesty says

    alan, PCGS is taking the word of the mint official who announced that the bullion coins being used in the sets were in fact minted in SF specifically for use in these sets. The original mint announcement about the set did say that the coins coulc come from either mint but that is not what ultimately happened. The PCGS coin number/info page at http://www.pcgs.com/Articles/Detail/7012 refers the the bullion coin as 2011-(S), which means a bullion coin minted in San Francisco. A bullion coin from West Point is 2011-(W) and one of unknown origin is simply 2011. I think this coin will be the true key for this set because it is the least likely to get a grade of MS70 and will be needed to complete “perfect 70” sets.

  458. Two Cents says

    To alan [Nov. 9 @ 12:32 pm],

    I’m surprised that the Mint now says that the non-mintmarked bullion coin in the 25th Anniv. Silver Set is from either the West Point or San Francisco Mint.

    On Oct. 12, 2011, Tom Jurkowsky, director of the Mint’s Office of Public Affairs, told Coin World (Oct. 31 issue) that the non-mintmarked bullion coins in the 25th Anniversary Silver Set were in fact minted at the San Francisco Mint. This made a lot of practical sense, as the sets were assembled at the San Francisco Mint, where bullion coins were and are still being struck.

    The certificate of authenticity might have been printed months ago, before the origin of the non-mintmarked bullion coins was known.

  459. richard says

    order placed 5:22 38381xxx in process order placed 5:36 38384xxx in process what do you think no cancellation notice,any good?

  460. says

    Just got my 25th Anniversary set. Really nice coins. They look great just scanning them with the naked eye. I’ll look closer later. They will stay in OGP.

  461. Eric The Red says

    The Mint Sucks! This is what you get after years of loyal patronage. All I wanted was one lousy set.

    Dear United States Mint Customer,

    Thank you so much for your interest in the American Eagle 25th Anniversary Silver Coin Set.

    Due to overwhelming demand, the product reached its production limit in sales quickly and the United States Mint accepted a limited number of orders on a waiting list in the event that products became available due to order cancellations.

    Unfortunately, based on the time your order was taken, we can now confirm that your waiting list order will not be processed. Please note you will receive an order cancellation notification confirming this when your order is cancelled from our system.

    The United States Mint

  462. alan says

    HEY THIS IS NO JOKE I WAS ON THE COMPUTER THIS MORNING NOV. 11TH 7.36 EASTERN TIME THE MINT HAS REMOVED SOLD OUT ON THE EAGLE SETS AND ALLOWS TO ORDERED THEN WITH A SHIPPING DATE OF 11/25/11. THEN THE ORDER SAYS BACKORDER BUT NOT SOLD OUT i DON’T KNOW WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT WILL LET YOU PUT THEM IN YOUR SHOPPING CART

  463. alan says

    HEADS UP!!!!!!!!

    I DO NOT WHAT IS GOING ON BUT AT 7.36 THIS MORNING 11/11 THE MINT TOOK OFF SOLD OUT AND LETTING YOU ORDER EAGLE SETS WITH A SHIPPING DATE OF 11/25/11 A COUPLE OF GUYS ALREADY ORDER AND GOT A ORDER # SO CHECK IT OUT QUICKLEY

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