August 2016 U.S. Mint Circulating Coin Production

2016-atb-quarters-coin-harpers-ferry-west-vTINyThe U.S. Mint’s circulating coin production fell in August, with 1.3 billion coins produced to follow up on last month’s 1.8 billion-coin total.

Overall production decreased by 27% compared to July, and rose by 14% in relation to August of 2015. This year’s circulating coin total stands at more than 11.4 billion coins, 3% less than had been struck by this time last year.

The chart below details production numbers for the coins, broken down by denomination and mint facility. The first numerical column lists figures for the month of August, while the “2016 Total” represents the cumulative number for the year.

2016 US Mint Coin Production Figures

August 2016 Total
Lincoln Cent – Denver 286.80 M 3,084.40 M
Lincoln Cent – Phil. 391.60 M 3,375.60 M
Jefferson Nickel – Denver 50.88 M 527.52 M
Jefferson Nickel – Phil. 77.52 M 554.88 M
Roosevelt Dime – Denver 126.00 M 1,022.00 M
Roosevelt Dime – Phil. 163.00 M 1117.00 M
Quarters – Denver 88.00 M 862.60 M
Quarters – Phil. 118.03 M 887.63 M
Kennedy Half – Denver 0 2.10 M
Kennedy Half – Phil. 0 2.10 M
Native Am Dollar – Denver 0 2.10 M
Native Am Dollar – Phil. 0 2.80 M
Pres Dollar – Denver 0 14.84 M
Pres Dollar – Phil. 1.12 M 18.06 M
Total 1302.95 M 11473.63 M

The Lincoln cent saw 678 million pieces struck last month, constituting 52% of all coins produced during this period. Roosevelt dimes had the second-highest mintage at 289 million coins, followed by America the Beautiful quarters with 206 million and Jefferson nickels with 128 million.

The table below presents cumulative 2016 production numbers for America the Beautiful quarters and Presidential dollars, differentiated by design. This is the first time the Mint has shared totals for Harpers Ferry ATB quarters, which will cease production now that the Theodore Roosevelt National Park quarter has been released.

2016 US Mint Coin Production by Design

Denver Phil. Total
Shawnee 151.80 M 155.60 M 307.40 M
Cumberland Gap 223.20 M 215.40 M 438.60 M
Harpers Ferry 424.00 M 434.63 M 858.63
Nixon 4.34 M 5.46 M 9.80 M
Ford 5.04 M 5.46 M 10.50 M
Reagan 5.46 M 7.14 M 12.60 M

While production figures for individual ATB quarters are not posted until after the Mint has finished making each design, numbers for Presidential $1 coins are not to be considered final until the end of the year. In all likelihood, however, the majority of 2016’s Presidential dollars have already been struck and future adjustments will be minimal.

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Comments

  1. Yes, But...You Can't Take It With You says

    Montana John (from previous thread):

    I also had a very good experience with Great Collections. As Louis said, they are a particularly good option for more pricey coins, especially over $1000. They were efficient and good at communicating each step of the process. I will use them again at some point.

  2. cagcrisp says

    @VA Bob, I disagree..

    “I believe the Mint should not publish mintages in advance at all. ” We need more transparency not less. Who decides went to pull an offering? a Mint czar? Who on the inside will tell their friends that we are getting ready to pull an offering so you better get one now? Backroom deals. Why open up the possibility of gaming the system from the inside? You say this doesn’t or wouldn’t happen. How many coins over the years have been smuggled out of the Mint and later showed up that were supposed to either not been minted or destroyed. There is always going to be people trying to game the system, don’t give them another avenue.

    ” If the HH limit would have been 5 instead of 1 for the SLQ then that saturation point would have been greatly exceeded.” How do you know what the saturation point is? Why not let the free market decide vs. a preconceived arbitrary number? Please give me a saturation point for the Walking Liberty half. I would like to know exactly what that saturation point is.

    ” We now know within a few hundred to a few thousand, the collector base for this coin.” You don’t have a clue as to what the collector base for this coin is. You have no idea how many customers of dealers were unable to purchase a coin because the dealer could not get the inventory they want. You have no idea how many flippers have purchased this coin and will either flip or return the coin to know if the current sales numbers are indeed an indication of demand. You have no idea how many people do not have credit cards and use only pay pal to purchase coins and are thus shut out from the Mint offering because the Mint doesn’t accept pay pal. You have no idea how many fathers, mothers, grandfathers, grandmothers, aunts, uncles were unable to get adequate coins to give to relatives.

    “Everyone has had ample time to get one if they wanted”. What if you want multiple coins? I have multiple coins that I purchase to give away. What about all the future coin collectors that I am helping out by gifting coins? Should they just be left out in the cold because of an arbitrary HHL or because some Mint czar decides its “time” to pull an offering because of an artificial timetable or preconceived notion as to a saturation point?

    I personally have never sold a coin. Period. So don’t put a flipper label on me. I wanted many more coins than the HHL of 1 would allow. I had three viable choices: 1. Skip the offering entirely so everyone that I give to would be treated equally and no one would get a coin 2. Set up multiple accounts or 3. Wait until HHLs are increased so I can get the number of coins that I need.

    One of the bullet points of the Mint’s Mission Statement is “Producing proof and uncirculated coins, commemorative coins, and medals for sale to the general public.”

    The Mint needs to continue selling to the general public and quit trying to decide which class of the “general public” gets coins and which class does not…

  3. Sith says

    @cagcrisp – Nice post, and I agree, but please calm down

    @VA Bob – The mintage is just the maximum, the mint can sell less than the full mintage. The mintage is just a ceiling.

  4. A different Jeff says

    So, commenting on the previous thread re the Reagan C&C set. Any idea if it will contain both an ASE and a silver medal as the 2013, 2014 and 2015 sets did? Or will there be a bronze medal like 2013 and 2014 sets? Looking for informed guesses here. $11 seems a bit steep of an increase given a $5 increase in silver over last year, as the cost to produce shouldn’t be significantly different.

  5. says

    With respect to,

    “the Mint should not publish mintages in advance at all….It would eliminate most speculation and people would have to really decide if they like the coin or not. When the run is finished, then numbers can be posted. There will be a lot more winners.”

    I VERY MUCH agree with that position. Buy the coin because you like it.., want to speculate, fine – do so at risk.

    If the mint did away with publishing mintage numbers until after the run, or by 31 Dec of that year.., I do IN FACT BELIEVE IT WOULD LEAD TO MANY MORE WINNERS.

  6. earthling says

    Mintage is already a non factor in most cases anymore. What really drives resale value is the limited edition label in the plastic TPG Slab. Also whether a 70 label was negotiated by the submitter.

  7. says

    If the ASE in the Reagan C&C set is not an “S”, @ 150K It will be a loser! It only makes sense to make it an “S” mm to give it more meaning to the set.

  8. MT says

    @mccam — It depends if you are a collector or a flipper. An ASE with ANY mint mark makes sense for inclusion with the Reagan C&C set, for the reasons explained previously. An “S” would be icing on the cake. At 150k, flippers would have no chance if the ASE is not unique to this set. If it plays out that way, those who think they could flip this will be the losers. That would not make the set a loser, but of course a flipper might look at it that way…

  9. Buzz Killington says

    If no mintage numbers were published, there would be a handful of people who still knew that information, and could profit from it, similar to insider stock trading.

    I don’t see how making every issue a “mint to demand” issue within a limited ordering window is unfair. Does it decrease the profitability of buying to re-sell? OF COURSE. But the USM should not be in the business of creating rarities for re-sellers to profit from.

    I understand this may be impractical for some purposes, since sometimes specialty blanks need to be ordered, etc., which would necessitate mintage limits. But if you are talking about the fairest way to do it in theory, Mint to Demand is it.

  10. Sith says

    @KCSO – I disagree. The RCM, and the Perth Mint have made making low mintage coins an art form. This isn’t about buy what you like its about can I get it cheaper later. Best case scenario can I wait to combine shipping. If the mint did not mark up its coins 30% I might agree, they are not selling these coins at cost. Using a bad example how long would the Bennie Baby trend lasted if they never announced the mintages. Buy the new special edition Frog Beanie Baby, at our marked up price, and after a few months we will tell you how many we made…or we will release the sales results on our commemorative coin sales in January , until then take a guess. How many Lincoln C&C sets are we making….who cares buy what you like. We don’t cater to flippers, go back and sell bullion.

    Then add the reverse situation, you mean you did not get Elizabeth Truman. You should have bought it right away, you should have guessed we cut the mintage. Yep we only made 12K of the Liberty medal, sorry you missed out but you should have guessed the mintage would be that low.

  11. Jeff says

    So now let’s talk about the difference between non disclosed mintage and mint to demand are they not the same Buzz? What you said in 3 paragraphs could of been just to agree non disclosure your talking like a rebubliturd.

  12. Sith says

    @Buzz Killington – The all might Jeff has spoken. We are wrong, and I’m a rebubliturd. I now have to redeem myself in the eyes of Jeff…how can I get into his good graces? I’m about to cry.

    @Jeff – I’m sorr,y, please forgive me. You are right they are not the same. Thank you for correcting us rebubliturds. We are not worthy of your divine guidance,

  13. cagcrisp says

    @Jeff, “So now let’s talk about the difference between non disclosed mintage and mint to demand are they not the same?”

    Completely different items.

    1. Non disclosed mintages would be that the “MINT” determines with NO transparency (and only insiders/friends) Know the mintage and the MINT decides when to pull an offering. The general public has NO say.

    2. Mint To Demand the CUSTOMER and not the Mint determines when to pull an offering. In a True Mint to Demand offering Many current Mint offering would be pulled if the Mint set a minimum sales threshold that had to be met to keep sales active.

    On last weeks mintage sales numbers there were 100 Active offerings that sold 10 or less items…

  14. cagcrisp says

    A perfect example of letting the Mint make the decision of when/when not to pull an offering is the First Spouse series. MANY of here are watching for the Low Mintage Wonder of the Ford First Spouse coin.

    When will the Mint pull the offering?

    Will the Mint let this thing run Until the already coins mintage expire OR will they just arbitrarily pull the offering before?

    IF they let this thing run until current supplies are exhausted then this item will Not be the Low Mintage Wonder. IF they pull it early then it could very well be the Low Mintage Wonder.

    In this example the Mint could determine the Lowest Mintage Gold coin in decades…..Or they could not.

    More transparency and not less is what we need…

  15. Jeff says

    So cc please provide PROOF that your theory holds water “the mint and there insiders would only know” please give me ONE example were this occurred.

  16. Dave SW FL says

    Open an ordering window. Close the window on a set date. Mint the coins. Ship the coins. Do not limit quantities. Everybody gets exactly what they want. Wait for returns ( no replacements) . Melt the returns. Announce the final sales.

    This is a government agency set up to serve ALL citizens. The free market will figure out rarities and popular issues.

    If you are looking for investments, as it’s been said here several times, go elsewhere.

    JMHO

  17. Dave SW FL says

    Having over 100 items hanging around has got to be a nightmare for the fulfillment center.
    Annual sets of coins and bullion available all year and windowed ordering with mint to demand on special coins.
    Pull the plug Dec 31 and start a new year. Having 3-5 year old product hanging around is stupid. Marcus on The Profit would agree – they should see how he transforms loser businesses. Maybe Jeppson should apply for the show!

  18. joe#2 says

    If someone gets there 1/4 oz. 2016 gold liberty, If they would make a video so we can all see how it looks would be great.

  19. Buzz Killington says

    @Jeff —

    A *very* liberal Democrat here, fwiw, telling you that @cag is absolutely right, undisclosed mintage limits are MILES apart from ordering windows. If you can’t figure that out, I don’t know what to say.

    As to the potential for fraud and abuse, there are hundreds of documented cases, in the realm of insider trading, of people taking advantage of inside information, including people who work for the printing companies when stock prospectuses used to be printed. And the prosecuted cases only scratch the surface of the real problem. If the Mint had a secret number of 1,500 Betty Ford coins minted, judging she would be unpopular, but no one knew that, the insiders would purchase them all, and this includes people at the warehouse, and everyone in the logistical chain who knew what the numbers were.

    @Cag’s fear that, if Betty Ford were pulled off sale with coins minted, an insider would purchase 250 of them right before it happened, and then be sitting on 10% of the mintage is not being suspicious, it is a certainty.

    Even if such information could be shielded, why go through all the trouble, when transparency cures everything?

    Regardless of your political leanings, transparency should be a touchstone value in a representative democracy.

  20. data dave says

    Lots of good conversation on how the mint should run their business. They do have some rules they use, but those rules also change periodically. I used to wait and combine my purchases to save on shipping. I had to stop doing that because of availability issues. A good example are the bronze first spouse sets, they were only available for a week and who knows if they are coming back. The rolls and bags seem to last for a bit longer and the proof and mint sets also. But it is still a mistake to think anything will be available for months.

    Cagcrisp brings up a good point with the FS gold series. No one knows how many the mint made for Ford (except insiders) but assuming they looked at 2014 and 2015 sales, I would guess around 2700 proof and around 1800 unc. At the current sales rate, those could last years, or the mint could decide to pull the plug at the end of 2016 on all FS gold (with or without warning). Or they could have only made 1500 Unc Fords and that’s it.

  21. Buzz Killington says

    I think these comments are about the best advertisement for a Betty Ford Unc coin that I have ever seen.

  22. Dustyroads says

    The US Mint obviously would be reversing progress if it ended publishing mintage limits. The request for more transparency is the reason we have disclosure of mintage limits in the first place, and we haven’t even mentioned the need for a budget and schedule. Do any of you really believe that you don’t enjoy having the information you have, come on guys…

  23. Buzz Killington says

    To save everyone the trouble of checking, you can still add 99 Betty Ford Unc coins to your bag.

  24. joe#2 says

    If there was 1 Betty ford fs coin minted, And i had the chance of getting it, I would pass pass pass. That is ( to say the least ), The most ugliest coin i have ever seen by far. She looks more like Gerald ford. ( no insult intended Mr. president ).

  25. KEITHSTER says

    Dear Jeffy just look at the sale records right before one was pulled ? And you will find that the sales show a huge bump in sales on that item ! So no insider info don’t think so just one of the perks of working for a living!! But we did get our countdown which helps sometimes if they don’t find more ? Good Luck All We Need It :>:>:>:>:>

  26. Jeff says

    Buzz so how would you know if a product was limited if you don’t know what the mintages is. And I guess your answer is its happens in other arenas that it has to happen with coins. I still ask show me the proof , give me an example in regards to the U.S.MINT I still say you can’t all I here is trust me and my words.

  27. says

    Sith says
    SEPTEMBER 13, 2016 AT 10:41 AM

    @KCSO – I disagree. The RCM, and the Perth Mint have made making low mintage coins an art form. This isn’t about buy what you like its about can I get it cheaper later.

    The RCM, and the Perth Mint have made making low mintage coins an art form –
    that’s because the vast majority of what they pump out, all those color cons and Barbie coins.., there may be 500 to 1,500 collectors in the world that buy that stuff. I have no clue where you are going with that analogy.

    This isn’t about buy what you like its about can I get it cheaper later –

    Maybe for you it is.. & some others on this blog.., though not me.
    Frankly.., I’m disillusioned by this blog and how few collectors there truly are out here, well I perceive their numbers to be considerably low.

    Beanie babies – I did get to finish my post before it was accidently deleted.., though in a nut shell –

    The Modern coin market needs a resurgence of Beanie Babies because those peeps have found their way into flipping mint coins now.

    Call them shoe flippers, stay at home moms, beanie baby collectors, whatever, though the secondary market is saturated with them, it’s evident by the number of clueless flippers on the bay happy with $10 – $40 flip on a $500 coin…

    I’ll state my position again as you clearly read what you wanted into my post –

    I favor the mint not publishing mintages. – keep everything else the same.

    Have HHL where it makes sense,

    Turn releases into a total free for all,

    Have defined mintages.., just don’t state what they are, until the item is Sold Out, period

    That would change a lot that’s wrong for the secondary market.., for the better.

  28. says

    Adding a degree of the unknown and an element of risk to the flipping speculation game may change some behaviors real quick….

    I’m convinced that it would change many behaviors within 3 months of being instituted

  29. says

    Buzz says –

    If no mintage numbers were published, there would be a handful of people who still knew that information, and could profit from it, similar to insider stock trading.

    Buzz, Really?

    We can’t even get a Product Schedule out of these guys…

    We can’t even get a clear definition of mintage and product limit when it comes to the Liberty medals…

    These guys can’t even get out of their own way..,

    Ok, so maybe a couple managers buy a few more than they otherwise would have.., who says that doesn’t happen now?

    So, with that said, where’s the remaining Truman Sets and ’15 APEs???????
    😉

  30. says

    Dustyroads says
    SEPTEMBER 13, 2016 AT 12:03 PM

    The US Mint obviously would be reversing progress if it ended publishing mintage limits. The request for more transparency is the reason we have disclosure of mintage limits in the first place, and we haven’t even mentioned the need for a budget and schedule. Do any of you really believe that you don’t enjoy having the information you have, come on guys…

    Dusty – I’ve lost track of the number of coins you’ve bought through your own omission, when you had no plan to do so, when a pending Sell Out was evident. Think of any recently?

    So.., what side of the fence are you on, speculator..? or collector?

    I’d much rather have full transparency through a complete Product Schedule in January than pubished mintages..,

    So of you all need to rethink why you’re buying this stuff…

  31. Sith says

    @KCSO – Mint employees have been known to steal coins. BTW it doesn’t happen know because everyone knows the mintage

    There may be 500 to 1,500 collectors in the world that buy that stuff. – Yep my point exactly. And none of them complain that they did not get the coin they wanted…no flippers with those coins.

  32. Darek says

    Hello. I just received SL coin. There is no problem with quality of the coin. Coin arrived in NEW brown box which can be open very easy. There is no tape and no glue, so you can open the box, remove the coin and close it without damaging the box. I just want you to know to check your package when they deliver to your home.

  33. cagcrisp says

    has ANYONE got an order for the SLQ with FedEx Smartpost?

    I Wonder if the Mint is using UPS instead of FedEx?…

  34. Buzz Killington says

    Another question: Why would the USM be interested in limiting the mintage if it could sell more?

    Agreed, there is a delicate balancing act. I bet if the 2016 Proof Platinum had an ordering window, far less than 10,000 would have been sold.

    I don’t pretend to have all of the answers from a business or marketing standpoint, but if the goal was to ensure fair and equal distribution, you can’t improve on Mint to Demand.

  35. MT says

    @cagcrisp — Shipping Policy excerpts:

    “Orders with Merchandise valued at $300 or more with a budget or standard delivery option chosen will receive a complimentary upgrade to signature-required Ground Shipping.”

    “Shipments containing any gold or platinum United States Mint collectibles with a standard delivery option chosen will receive a complimentary upgrade to Expedited Shipping.”

    So for the SLQ shipments, the Mint should not be using FedEx Smartpost.

  36. John Moore says

    Mine just left after sitting for two days.I have better results with FedEx smartpost.Three day delivery every time.

  37. Fmtransmitter says

    @ a Bob, Felson, and ike: Thanks for your posts. If I missed anyone ty as well. I guestimate there can’t be too many if these bronze FS sets out there because of the abrupt sell out of a cpl years. That last time it was all the rage on here. Everyone was talking about them.
    a Bob, I have the Moon Landing and some code talkers. I can easily fill those holes but I think I will try and start with the RR CnC set then go from there. Good luck all. I hope you all get 70s on your SLQs..

  38. cagcrisp says

    HOW GOOD A GUESSTIMATOR ARE YOU?

    Without Knowing stated Mintages for some specific Items for 2016 here are some Assumptions I would have made for this year:

    1. The 2015 Mint survey for the Winged Head Liberty had 70,000 @ $170.00. Wrong assumption. They Upped mintage and tacked on an Additional $30.00

    2. The 2015 Mint survey for the Standing Liberty Quarter had 35,000 @ $397.00. Wrong assumption. They Upped the mintage and tacked on an Additional $50.00

    3. The 2015 Mint survey for the Walking Liberty Halves had 25,000 @ $770.00. Jury still out on mintage, however, the Mint tacked on an Additional $70.00

    4. Without a known mintage for the dimes and a HHL of 10 I would have still thought 70,000 was ballpark. Wrong assumption.

    5. Without a known mintage for the quarters and a HHL of 1 I would have thought the Mintage would have been Way Down from 100,000. Wrong assumption.

    6. With a HHL of 1 for the Nancy Reagan Gold I would have never thought a combined mintage of 15,000. Wrong assumption.

    7. NO way I would have guessed 12,500 for “S” and 12,500 for “W”. IF I was guessing mintage I would have guessed 100,000 each. I would have never bought without a stated mintage.

    8. Shawnee National Forest bullion pucks. Anyone see 105,000 coming? Not me. Wrong assumption.

    9. Without a stated mintage and ASSUMING a “W” on the ASE, I would have never guessed 150,000. Wrong assumption.

    10. After seeing what Happened last year with the 2015 Platinum Proof I would have been in the ballpark of 10,000 for the 2016 Platinum Proof. SO I GOT ONE RIGHT!!!!

    SO….I got 1 assumption out of 10 right…

  39. cagcrisp says

    On 9. above it is referencing the Reagan Coin and Chronicles and IF it is a “P”, “D” or “S” I STILL would never guess 150,000. So under any mint mark I would be wrong. 150,000 would be High for “W” and Low for the other 3.

    I DO think $68.95 is a decent price for what you get vs. the $57.95 for what you have been getting

    …SO…IF I was to guess the price of an “W” ASE in the Reagan C&C I would have been wrong again…

  40. Tinto says

    It would be great if the proof ASE packaged with the RR C&C came with a Mint mark other than the standard “W”. That would be a nice way to end this series, but it could have been nicer (IMO) if the Mint also included the Reagan inaugural medal like they did with the others. I for one would not have minded paying more … but the Mint would have to redesign the folder to accommodate the 1 additional ASE, requiring more materials … all adding to the cost which the Mint will pass on to its customers … not to mention potential delays in getting the product up to snuff …. on second thought .. never mind ..

  41. earthling says

    Another day and still I havent found time to stop at the P.O. for my SLQ. Guess I should recognize the facts and not waste time even ordering this stuff.

    Hmmm….. what can I do with my time and energy? I’d love to learn more about my job but the strange place won’t give me classes or even printed material. They offer tons of OT though. But my job is too much like a prison sentence.
    B O R I N G.

    Maybe an online course in basket weavingSpeaking of baskets.. whatever happened to that push to promote ” Longenberger ” Baskets from about 12 years ago? That was a strange merchandising scam. I dont even feel like looking into that.

  42. JBK says

    Re: RR C&C set….

    I am a little surprised that they are not including a silver medal. Also, to clarify, none of the C&C sets had an inaugural medal – they were the mint’s medal for the respective presidents.

    The RR presidential medal issued by the mint is a very modernistic (or at least not a classic) design and I suspect that may have had something to do with the decision not to mint it in silver, and to include a RR/NR medal instead. I suspect that the SE in the set may have a special mint mark or finish as I can’t see 150,000 and an increased piece otherwise. Funny if they don’t include a stamp like the others – there are a few RR issues so they should be plentiful.

  43. So Krates says

    Although I only made $10 in three years, the coin I mentioned selling yesterday, a RP Buffalo, was an example of a Mint to Order success.

  44. Yes, But...You Can't Take It With You says

    KCSO:

    Please use quotation marks or <> or italics or SOMETHING to set apart the quotations of the original post that you are responding to. This isn’t about being a punctuation Nazi, it really is simply that I want to follow your arguments and it is very difficult sometimes to know when it is you talking and when you’re quoting someone else. Thanks!

  45. earthling says

    http://www.retirethepenny.org

    Here’s a link to

    ” Citizens to Retire the Penny ”

    I haven’t read through it all yet but I plan to. It doesn’t make much sense to keep producing billions of these toxic discs each year at a big loss to tapayers.

    And that accident on I-95 in Delaware a few days ago wasn’t a good thing. Luckily no one was seriously hurt in the accident. Maybe next time everyones luck runs out?

  46. NcCoinCollector says

    I really am looking forward to owning a “Reagan Eagle”.

    Maybe if the presidential dollar had the same buying power as a dollar did in the 70s (and before) the program would have been a success. Or if they had been made of 100% copper with a more appealing color. As it is now , cashiers begrudgingly take them.

    Given that the Truman set has a high price primarily because buyers could purchase 5 at a time the Reagan set is really the last chance for a “hit” with the series.
    I really do like the sets though and feel an Opprotunity was missed not offering the sets for ALL presidents.

    Maybe the mints plan is to start offering all presidential medals in silver. IDK

  47. cal4ewa says

    I personally like the system that the US Mint has in place today. You win some and you lose some. I was able to flip some low mintage items and with the $ made I was able to buy coins for my collection like the recent 2016 Gold Standing Liberty Quarter. I want to thank everyone that contributes to this blog as I’ve gotten a tons of valuable information which helped me make sound decisions on what to buy and when to sell.

  48. Fmtransmitter says

    Correct me if I am wrong but the 1st or 2nd thing I read about this hobby was to NOT expect any gains on coins for at LEAST 10 years. Now that could be if you arw buying classics, not sure. We have all seen many moderns lose their value right away and many gain. It is an educated game. The more you do your research, the better off you may end up. I’ve had big winners and many losers. In the end I think I am about even, maybe down, but it’s all about the chase for me. If I want to INVEST, I would be flipping flood cars from FL w no rust to the Northern States or Real Estate. Not coins. I see alot of bantering about mintage transparency. It means nothing if people don’t like the design. It all starts in the design room. Make coins that people want to own, and they will sell.
    Also, the Mint is in charge of making the Nation’s circulating coinage but the numismatic end is run soley on the profits gained from sales amd does not use 1 dime of taxpayer money to operate. @Dave SW FL, I read you always saying it is a Govnmt Agency, but only for circulating coinage. If you talk about anything in the Mints catalogue you are talking about a private enterprise. A stamping plant.

  49. Fmtransmitter says

    @Mark Rex: If that was YOUR video thanks. Just a side note, remind me not to get in a cat fight with you, you got some claws for nails man. I was thinking don’t they get broken, then I saw your thumb I think, and yep, that bad boy was broken. Anyway, thanks for sharing…Nice coin.

  50. Dustyroads says

    KCSO says, “Dusty – I’ve lost track of the number of coins you’ve bought through your own omission, when you had no plan to do so, when a pending Sell Out was evident. Think of any recently?”

    Buddy, are you seriously questioning my buying habits?

    Or El Guapo, could it be that you are turning 40 something today?

  51. Dave SW FL says

    FM
    I never figured you to be the type who would flip flooded cars onto unsuspecting consumers.
    That’s not INVESTING – that’s SCAMMING😡

  52. Jerry Diekmann says

    cagcrisp – you have your point of view and VABob has his point of view and the truth of the matter is probably something different than both of your points. I think you were being too hard on VABob. If I was criticized like that in the tone you used, I would never post a comment on this site again. VABob is a longtime contributor and has made many good and helpful points, and I think you owe him an apology – your comments were mean, IMO.

    VABob – I have always thought your points were well made, and you can count me as a fan.

  53. Jerry Diekmann says

    KCSO – maybe I’m missing the point, but hasn’t the Mint provided mintage (not to exceed) from the very beginning of the modern commem program? Maybe not for the GW 250th anniversary in 1982 – that may have been a mint to demand – but at least every other coin since then. Some of the commems up to the mid 1990s had very high mintages, and even at that some of them sold out. I have collected coins for a very long time, and I never heard of the problems with speculators and flippers until around ten years ago, except for the earlier mintages when they sold out, and it wasn’t anything like the frenzy you see nowadays. To me, coin collecting, at least dealing with the Mint and its ever-changing programs, finishes, gimmicks, and PC coins, is not enjoyable anymore – it has become a stressor instead of an enjoyable hobby. But I’m not an adrenalin junkie – I prefer coins when everything was a lot simpler – now everything has become unnecessarily complex and convoluted. Some collectors are being driven away, but maybe others join the party because they love this “excitement”.

  54. Louis says

    Interesting discussion, but the issue I have is most of you seem to want to impose your solution on all products. That will not work. Different methods work best for different products. As for the “insider’s argument,” I don’t buy this. Yes, in the 225-year history of the Mint, there have been some employees who smuggled out some 1913 Liberty nickels or error coins, but these are isolated incidents and were not done with the collusion of management. In fact, a number of employees have been arrested for stealing. I know many will not believe or agree with me, but the Mint does not share info. that would allow employees to make a killing. That is just not how they operate.

  55. Erik H says

    4 days after the mint created a shipping label they finally decided to drop my package off to the post office.

  56. Barry says

    It is not because of us the cent has little value. It is because of them. The currency has been devalued due to excess money creation. That problem is not being addressed and we are being asked to give up circulating coinage due to financial mismanagement. I say keep making the cent .If they want to save money replace paper dollars with dollar coins. That is my two cents.

  57. Tinto says

    I received my TR bullion puck from Apmex yesterday .. very nice. Can’t wait for the “P” sales to start ..

  58. Yes, But...You Can't Take It With You says

    You know, reading about the shipping labels being created 2-4 days before actual shipping makes me suspect that the Mint wants the “processing” process to begin because that’s when the window closes to cancel your order. Once the label is created the only way to cancel is to go to the trouble of returning the product.

  59. Yes, But...You Can't Take It With You says

    Louis:

    I don’t disagree with you re: your assertion that the great majority of Mint employees are honest. However, I am curious to hear your take on the vast number of pattern coins (and some proofs that weren’t patterns) that made it into the hands of collectors, somehow… Mostly in the 19th century, I know, but some in the last century as well. Seems that there were some sweetheart deals being made, at the very least. Bordering on dishonest, perhaps, and making Cag’s point that transparency is needed so that everyone has a fair shot.

  60. DBR says

    In regard to mintages and disclosing them: I thought congressional legislation for each coin prescribed the mintage limits and parameters.

    Now, if that’s true about coinage legislation, then mintage amounts are public record and we could all get that data theoretically and legally, yes?

    The USM cannot “mint to demand” unless the legislation legitimizing the coin mandates it. Again, with medals, it’s a different story.

    The USM must abide by the law, but where the mint is free, then they follow policies and markets and collector tastes.

  61. DBR says

    It’d be kind of funny (strange) if collectors had to file FOIA requests for mintage amounts on U.S. mint offerings.

    I don’t think our judges on the bench who collect coins would find this amusing.

    Thanks to all for the spirited exchanges on the MNB. You all make this hobby very “human” and that’s great! There are some great characters who contribute here. Don’t change a bit.

  62. Fmtransmitter says

    @Dave SW FL: Ahh, assumption junction Dave. You obviously do not know the car business. IF I WERE to embark on such a venture, and I know who have, that information is disclosed to the buyer by law. At least in States that I know people have operated in. So please do not assume things you may not know much about. You ever heard of a pink title? Many people have no issue buying a perfectly good running car for a discounted price because some water got inside. The Honda Element has a drain plug to hose out the back storage area. Why did I even respond. Good luck to us all>>>>>>>>>

  63. Fmtransmitter says

    @Can’t Take it: Great point aboit the label creation and brings me right back to my issue with the returns department. There be some shady characters workin in that room. We’re all afraid to return anything now and maybe that was the plan all along when they “misplaced” an ounce of gold. Hmmm…

  64. data dave says

    TR puck sales hit 30K yesterday. Considering where the price of silver is, that isn’t bad. We went16 issues with mintages between 20K and 35K and it wasn’t until the price fell in early 15 that sales exceeded 40K. I’ve seen some sales recently for TR pucks at $20 (total) over spot. Not bad considering the Aps have to pay $10 over spot.

  65. Dave SW FL says

    FM
    Thanks for the info – you are certainly right that I know NOTHING about the auto sales business. It sounded too shady to me coming from you anyway so glad to understand.

    I appreciate your valuable input along with most of our bloggers – put me in DBR’s camp….this is a great site with much insight!

  66. joe#2 says

    Interest question i possibly have. On the COA on the 1/4 oz. gold liberty, It says 1/4 ounce equals 7.776 grams of gold. If you look up how many grams in 1/4 ounce, it equals 7.09grams… Need help on this one.

  67. cagcrisp says

    @joe#2, you are confusing Troy oz. vs. Avoirdupois oz.

    .25 oz. Troy= 7.776 grams
    .25 oz. Avoirdupois = 7.087 grams

    Precious Metals are in Troy oz…

  68. Sith says

    @Louis – Hear, hear!

    BTW nobody is saying the mint employees are not honest, just saying “insider” information can not be over looked. Case in point the US mint does not announce the mintage for the Liberty medals, one of the dealer has an “insider” who sends them a text with the mintage. It would not even have to be a mint employee, someone from the Sunshine mint could let a dealer know how many plancets were ordered from them.

  69. Louis says

    @Yes, but- I am not an expert on pattern coins by any means, but my understanding is they mostly were either saved by the Mint as part of its heritage and given to the Smithsonian collection, or given to a foreign dignitary and later sold here, or given to a Mint Director. That kind of thing. Patterns are not illegal to own unlike coins that were not made officially like the 1913 nickel that was made secretly by an employee.

    As for this insider trading idea, you are all entitled to your view, but I know of no direct evidence of such things. The mint does care about its big dealer customers but it does not give them, from what I have seen while working for some of those very companies, any kind of insider stuff that is not made public. Now when it comes to some foreign mints the story is probably different……….

  70. Sith says

    @Louis – I think you are missing the point. The suggestion was that in order to foil the mint’s big dealer customer’s supposed advantage over collectors, the mint needs to be more obscure. The counterpoint was that it would benefit the big dealer customers even more as they would then be privy to “insider” information.

    The US Mint currently operates in the open, and it makes clear cut public announcements, about designs and mintages . As such their is no need\benefit for insider information.

  71. cagcrisp says

    Mint To Demand (MTD)

    Currently the Mint has 248 offerings listed on the “Numismatic Products: Cumulative Sales” weekly report. The report does not report bullion sales or non-Silver medals. That’s 248 offerings considered Numismatic. Of these 248 offerings I consider 244 to be Mint To Demand (MTD). Now my definition of MTD is different than most. Anything offered for a period longer than a calendar month for me is MTD. Most people get paid weekly, biweekly or monthly. IF you want a product you should have ample opportunity to purchase an offering within a one month period if the household limit (HHL) is unlimited. Even though commemorative coins, AGE’s and First Spouse coins have a stated mintage I still consider them MTD (unless it’s something like the BHOF Golds) because you still have ample opportunity for a purchase.

    244 of 248 = 98.4%. There have been 4 offerings in 2016 that I considered Non MTD: The 2016 Winged Head Liberty dime that went Currently Unavailable (CU) in 41 minutes, the 2016 Platinum proof that went CU in 56 minutes and the 2016 Liberty Silver medals that went CU in 6 minutes.

    These 4 offerings seem to be the generating the most discussion about whether the mintage was correct or the HHL was correct or that these 4 offerings should be MTD.

    The 2016 Winged Head Liberty dime went on Sale on April 21st 2016 with a price of $205.00, a HHL of 10 and maximum mintage of 125,000. After ~ 20 minutes it went back order (BO) and then in ~ 41 minutes it went CU. Week #1 sales showed 122,510. Week ending 09/11/16 sales showed 116,096. Fully 8,904 under the maximum mintage allowed. My analysis shows that a box of 10 was the #1 selling options. SO…you have 116,096 coins sold and currently the sales on the bay are ~ 30% higher than the Mint’s offering price.

    The 2016 Platinum proof went on Sale on June 30th 2016 with a price of $1,350.00, a HHL of 1 and a maximum mintage of 10,000. After ~ 56 minutes it went CU. Week #1 sales showed 9,810. Week ending 09/11/16 sales showed 9,178. Fully 822 under the maximum mintage allowed.

    The 2016 Liberty Silver medals “W” and “S” went on Sale on August 23rd 2016 with a price of $34.95 each with a HHL of 2 with a maximum mintage of 12,500 for the UH9 “W” mint mark and 12,500 for the UH10 “S” mint mark. Week #1 sales showed 12,221 for UH10 and 12,219 for UH9. Week ending 09/11/16 sales show 12,201 for UH9 and 12,200 for UH10. Only 299 UH9 under maximum mintage and only 300 UH10 under maximum mintage. Current bay sales are ~ $125.00 to $135.00 per coin. I see no differentiation between mint marks concerning pricing. Bay sales are ~ 270% higher than the Mint’s offering price.

    From MY point of view I am against MTD. The four afore mentioned coins are the ONLY coins I have purchased from the Mint in CY2016. IF these coins were listed as MTD I would not have purchased any of these coins. Off the top of my head the Only coins that I can remember purchasing from the Mint that I considered MTD coins were the 2014 Gold Kennedy, the 2015 Gold Buffalo and the 2015 Gold High Relief Liberty. Because of the cost of these three Gold items I bought even though I considered them to be MTD.

    Why am I against MTD? Secondary market. Everyone here will either (1) sell their coins at some time, (2) give their coins away at some time, (3) will their coins away at some time or (4) be buried with said coins. I choose to give coins away before I die. I consider myself an investor (not a collector) and I only purchase coins that I think will go up in price WHILE I’m still alive. I guess right some times and I guess wrong some times. I try to teach children/grandchildren/nieces/nephews about the benefits of having some Gold/Precious Metals in a balanced portfolio.

    Buying something that I don’t Think will go up in price is not a part of my plains…

  72. HarryB says

    @Cag: spot on analysis ani I concurr in your definition of MTD. Question: will you be conducting your opinion survey on Mintage and HHL for the upcoming Walking Liberty Half Tribute offering? Thanks.

  73. cagcrisp says

    @HarryB, “will you be conducting your opinion survey on Mintage and HHL for the upcoming Walking Liberty Half Tribute offering? ”

    Oh Yeah. I expect the WLH to come out early December with the Mint releasing the details about 30 days before Launch…

    …SO I have it marked on my calendar for October 8th to start the poll…

  74. Hawkster says

    Steps to consider after receiving SLQ:
    1. Open box/ contents carefully.
    2. Check coin and packaging for any flaws
    3. Continue to admire your new acquisition.
    4. Show your family members and absorb their ahhhhhs.
    5. Retire it to sock drawer.
    6. Check it every six months for toning, etc.— otherwise you may forget where you put it.

  75. cagcrisp says

    By waiting later to start the poll it gives us more time to see the sales numbers for the Standing Liberty Quarter. I’m sure the mintage for the WLH is already set in stone, maybe the Mint will use the sales number from the SLQ before they make a final decision on the HHL.

    IF/WHEN the Mint decides to raise the HHL on the SLQ that would give me a clearer picture of what they may deem necessary to meet their goals…

  76. Louis says

    @Hawkster- LOL!

    Got mine too and very pleased. But mine is a reverse proof and both breasts are exposed. Was made specially for me as an insider deal!

  77. RSF says

    I think that those of us recommending not publishing the mintage limit, are only concerned with the products that have the potential to cause a launch day frenzy and technical problems. They have that potential primarily because the Mint has announced an obviously scarce item. (a no-brainer buy decision) If the mintage was in doubt, dealers would have to weigh the risk of a mass buy. Some would reduce their effort and the launch day pressure/problems would diminish.
    This has to be thought of in terms of a long term policy by the Mint in order to see the desired change in market psychology. Buyers large and small need to learn to determine, through experience and knowledge, what is a quality offering that will retain demand. This forum is a good starting point resource.
    Over time, the items that sell out prior to all demand being met will become market “winners”. Like it used to be.

  78. says

    Reagan C&C pic up on the home page…

    Medal is the 2002 medal

    Maybe someone with some special viewing tool can check out the verbiage in the book to see if the ASE is a W or an S

  79. MT says

    @KCSO — Thanks. Contents as previously described. Too bad the image isn’t higher resolution to help determine the MM. If it’s mentioned at all, it may be in the description just to the left of the coin and conveniently blocked by the cover.

  80. earthling says

    I finally picked up my SLQ from the Post Office on my way to work. I remembered reading about the poor sealing of the shipping box on here and while waiting to sign for the parcel I noticed very suspect seperation around the gummed flap. I just had to check it out and had the thing opened in about 5 seconds to do a check. All present and accounted for but yeah I think it’s very poor security for a Gold Coin to ship in such a box. Looks like they probably spent 1 second closing the box up at the shipping point.

    As for the Coin itself – well its a Gold Standing Liberty Quarter. I’ll soon lock it up and maybe in a year or 4 might look at it again. Thanks US Mint for the HHL of 1 ! You probably saved this compulsive hoarder from buying too much junk again – like with that WLH Dime which I’ve never even taken a look at.

  81. earthling says

    For the next Gold Tribute Coin – the Walking Liberty Half , they probably should go with a 200,000 mintage limit and keep the HHL of 1.

    Coins are done and unless the US Mint does something drastic, they will be more done than the Franklin Mint.

  82. a Bob says

    The medal in the RR set is bronze because the Mint does have authority to produce this congressional gold medal in silver.
    Should have been a silver presidential medal instead. Sigh.

  83. Hawkster says

    Louis,
    I assume the special SLQ you received is just one of the numerous numismatic perks you receive as the pre-eminent coin writer. You really keep us abreast (eh, two) of current coin news.

  84. Yes, But...You Can't Take It With You says

    Louis – I knew it!! And you probably have a handful of patterns made in aluminum and ceramic too, don’t you?! Too funny. Any milk spots? 🙂 Keep those “girls” close – they’ll be worth a lot down the road – if you’re selling to La Leche League.

  85. Buzz Killington says

    @cag —

    I understand your analysis, but the point you are making actually *SUPPORTS* MTD from my point of view.

    You are saying, essentially, that you only only buy from the Mint when they underprice, and create a rarity, and sell it for less than the market price. While that may be great for you, and I don’t begrudge you doing it, I don’t see this as the Mint’s mission, which is selling coins to the public.

    If the Mint is underpricing and creating rarities, that means that it COULD have sold more — demand exceeds supply, which drives the price up. MTD (even as you define it, having a one month plus supply) eliminates this dynamic of creating instant rarities.

    It is one thing if Starbucks wants to create a handful of “rose gold” gift cards, or whatever, marketed as very limited collectibles, and the few people who are able to buy one have an instant rarity. I don’t think our government should be in the same game.

    I am usually able to order even these limited edition things, too, and I like the idea of buying an instant rarity. But I recognize that it is not entirely fair to the average blue collar worker (or even white collar worker) who can’t guarantee availability during that 5-15 minute window to try to order the instant rarity. Ultimately, this strategy will, I believe, shrink the collector pool, and be counterproductive to maintaining demand of coins, which underlies market prices.

  86. Larry says

    I zoomed in and the writing is not legible on the Regan C&C set. Coinnews website says the ASE will be a W.

  87. KCSO says

    And KCSO says a product limit of 150,000 that includes a ‘W’ ASE is exorbitant…,

    Johnson C&C may have some competition….

  88. cagcrisp says

    @Buzz Killington, “If the Mint is underpricing and creating rarities, that means that it COULD have sold more —” The Mint may/may not have sold more with a MTD approach.

    IF the 2016 Winged Head had a MTD offering I don’t think it would have sold 116,096.

    IF the 2016 Platinum proof had a MTD offering I don’t think it would have sold 9,178.

    IF the Liberty Silver medal had a MTD offering I think it would have sold more than 25,000 combined.

    IF the Standing Liberty Quarter had a HHL of 10 I think it would have sold out at 100,000.

    SO…For me my Analysis always Start with mintage limits and HHL’s. IF I don’t have a mintage limit then I just pass. MTD works great for some but it doesn’t work for me..

  89. MT says

    @Larry — Coinnews may well be right, but we’ve explained some reasons why that MIGHT not be the case. Some skepticism is in order here.
    Case in point: Just last week the coin media were reporting contents consisting of a “Reverse Proof 2016-P Ronald Reagan Presidential dollar (WRONG!), a .999 fine silver Reagan Presidential medal (INCORRECT!), a U.S. postage stamp bearing the president’s likeness (BZZZZ!), and an informational booklet.” Of the five items in the set, one was correctly identified — the booklet.

  90. cagcrisp says

    I guess some can’t wait…

    Guesstimates for Mintage and HHL for the Walking Liberty Half

    HarryB
    earthling 200,000/1
    Mike in NY 75,000/1
    KCSO 70,000/1
    cagcrisp 100,000/5

  91. cagcrisp says

    For me a 150,000 Reagan “W” C&C is a No Go.

    For me a 150,000 Reagan “S” C&C is a Back up the truck Go…

  92. Yes, But...You Can't Take It With You says

    Louis, do you already have your gold Walking Liberty Half Dollar? 🙂

    Cag, I’ll get the Reagan either way for set completion and because I respect and like the Man, but I agree that a “S” would be party time for sure.

  93. NcCoinCollector says

    75K/1
    ——–
    My gut says the mint wants to win one for the Gipper (who signed the ASE cash cow into law); so the Reagan Eagle will soar.
    Given past mintages 150K may not be enough.

  94. KCSO says

    MT says
    SEPTEMBER 14, 2016 AT 6:09 PM

    @Larry — Coinnews may well be right, but we’ve explained some reasons why that MIGHT not be the case. Some skepticism is in order here.
    Case in point: Just last week the coin media were reporting contents consisting of a “Reverse Proof 2016-P Ronald Reagan Presidential dollar (WRONG!), a .999 fine silver Reagan Presidential medal (INCORRECT!), a U.S. postage stamp bearing the president’s likeness (BZZZZ!), and an informational booklet.” Of the five items in the set, one was correctly identified — the booklet.

    I’m definitely with MT on this one.., AND the fun part is MAYBE that we won’t know until A SET actually shows up….

    Any one remember the 2014 Native American C&C set??? The news broke here first, and only on MNB via Samuel that did the deep dive one the set photo posting and raised the question.., OTHERWISE we all would have had an interesting surprise when we opened the mint box….

    Well, I’m still hoping for an ‘interesting surprise’…, like a Chinese fortune cookie, just the eternal optimist in me…, though guess what, TWT! 😋

  95. KCSO says

    cagcrisp says
    SEPTEMBER 14, 2016 AT 6:34 PM

    For me a 150,000 Reagan “W” C&C is a No Go.

    For me a 150,000 Reagan “S” C&C is a Back up the truck Go…

    Cag, it’s Guestimate time then…, spin the wheel of fortune….

    W – ?

    P – ?

    S – ?

    I say S – Coinnews is Wrong

  96. cagcrisp says

    Guesstimates for Mintage and HHL for the Walking Liberty Half

    HarryB
    earthling 200,000/1
    Mike in NY 75,000/1
    KCSO 70,000/1
    cagcrisp 100,000/5
    MT 75,000/2
    Yes, But…You Can’t Take It With You 50,000/1
    NcCoinCollector 75,000/1

  97. cagcrisp says

    @KCSO,

    LOL You are the Optimist… It would be fitting to do an “S”. Over the years just how many Billions of Dollars have been recorded by simply signing the ASE into law? A cash cow for the Mint for years…

  98. Hawkster says

    KCSO,
    Why not just ring up the SF Mint and ask if they’re done pumping out the proof silver eagles for the Reagan set? Maybe someone there will bite.

  99. KCSO says

    Cag..,,come dude, for the record, it’ll be an ‘S’

    Otherwise.., the mint truly needs a Numismatic Product Manager.., as these guys don’t have a clue.., & at 150,000 with a HHL of 1 with a W ASE.., just another ‘Swing & a Miss.., or should we say ‘Just another brick in the wall’

    But maybe it will be just a W…, it was the 10TH ANNIVERSARY of the Gold Buffalo and we got nothing…

    Lazy….

  100. Louis says

    @Hawkster and Yes, But- Thanks. Yes, I have a special pre-release proof gold Walker! Only 1 made, and I plan to use it to retire! Thanks for the kind words and all your support.

    I don’t want to dampen anyone’s enthusiasm but I just reviewed the platinum designs for 2018, 2019, and 2020 and there are lots of great eagles but the obverses to me are mostly rather disappointing though a couple could work. The meeting is on Friday, so you will all see them soon.

  101. Louis says

    Oh and 50K and with HH1 for the gold Walker and a round for everyone if the ASE in the Reagan set is special!

  102. KCSO says

    Hawkster says
    SEPTEMBER 14, 2016 AT 7:06 PM

    KCSO,
    Why not just ring up the SF Mint and ask if they’re done pumping out the proof silver eagles for the Reagan set? Maybe someone there will bite.

    I just worked 16 hour day and so doesn’t make any sense.., I’m going to bed shortly, and when I wake up, I still think that will make any sense to me…, sorry

  103. Hawkster says

    KCSO,
    Well, in the event that it eventually makes cents to you, the number is as follows:
    415-575-8000
    Now hit the hay.

  104. Hawkster says

    Longarm,
    Are those your odds for an “S” minted proof silver eagle in the Reagan set? O.K., just kidding.

  105. cagcrisp says

    Guesstimates for Mintage and HHL for the Walking Liberty Half

    HarryB
    earthling 200,000/1
    Mike in NY 75,000/1
    KCSO 70,000/1
    cagcrisp 100,000/5
    MT 75,000/2
    Yes, But…You Can’t Take It With You 50,000/1
    NcCoinCollector 75,000/1
    Louis 50,000/1
    longarm 100,000/1
    Tony 50,000/1

  106. Karl Meyer says

    With all the talk about mint mark on the Reagan ASE maybe it will be an enhanced proof. That would be pretty mirror polish background 2 or 3 different finishes to bring out the design of the walking liberty. Put me down for 65000/1 on the gold WLH.

  107. KCSO says

    Hawkster says
    SEPTEMBER 14, 2016 AT 7:15 PM

    KCSO,
    Well, in the event that it eventually makes cents to you, the number is as follows:
    415-575-8000
    Now hit the hay.

    Give me something of value Hawkster…, in 7 years you’ve yet to post anything of value other than posting the obvious, riding the backs of other posters, give us something new dude.., it’s always a stating of the obvious from what others have said…, c’mon, dude, any original thought?

    Seriously Hawkster, you continue to recite the obvious out here leading from some sort of attempted pun, it’s almost as bad as So Krates when she pontificates about the country’s energy plan and clean coal, it gets old..,

    Original thought…, something based upon applied learning.., so we as collectors can learn and be better off.., ? It’s worth trying… 😃

  108. Paddy says

    Wow been away for a while and everything seems to be going OK. as I was searching the USMINT page it seems that the RR set will have a P/S included with a booklet ..It will be nice. Item number

  109. cagcrisp says

    Guesstimates for Mintage and HHL for the Walking Liberty Half

    HarryB
    earthling 200,000/1
    Mike in NY 75,000/1
    KCSO 70,000/1
    cagcrisp 100,000/5
    MT 75,000/2
    Yes, But…You Can’t Take It With You 50,000/1
    NcCoinCollector 75,000/1
    Louis 50,000/1
    longarm 100,000/1
    Tony 50,000/1
    Karl Meyer 65,000/1

  110. Dustyroads says

    cagcrisp, Too me, it’s too early to make a guess. I’d like to see where the SLQ goes over the next few weeks. The Mint seems to make their decisions based on real numbers rather than their intuitions. It’s my personal belief that not all SLQ’s have been made and the Mint set the HHL of 1 to bring about this dismal sales number. Why did they do it? (not that you are asking) They did it to allow for the coin to be available to as many people as possible, and to gunge real demand. Needs more time.

  111. Larry says

    Gold SLQ in luxurious SP70 on HSN tonight for $999.00. Gotta love that dude. At one point he said this was the rarest SLQ. Yah, right.
    I did like seeing the bullion 5 OZ Teddy Roosevelt coin, though. Looks like a great coin.

  112. Tony says

    With mediocre sales of the SLQ, I see the same for the WLHD because of the price. True collectors will want to complete their centennial set. I don’t think these will be flipped

    I received my 2 SLQ from UPS today. Both shipping box was super-glued sealed.

  113. Dustyroads says

    The new Mint boxes use a piece of two-way tape to seal the opening flap. They don’t come anywhere near the quality of USPS Priority box sealing. These boxes are trouble!

  114. says

    HSN was also selling the 30th Annv. Proof Silver Eagle and already has their ANACS FDOI Limited Edition label…..and they already already know how PR70’S they will have…5,830.

    Price is $179.95 plus shipping.

    They were also selling the TR bullion puck for $179.95 plus $5 shipping

  115. says

    The label HSN was showing for that FDOI Proof Eagle was #0005 of 5,830…..of course they didn’ have the actual coin yet, but it’s a joke they know how many 70’s they will have.

  116. VA Bob says

    Whoa, leave it for a day and look at what happens!

    Jerry – Thanks for the kind words, though I didn’t take Cags comments as mean spirited, or requiring an apology in anyway. I find our thoughts more in agreement than not.

    Cag- As for the Mint “insider” knowledge, I’d say if every low mintage were a winner you’d be correct, but there are too many examples that prove that to be false. Also, the Mint kept a pretty good secret about the 2014 CC set, so it’s hard to gage if your concern is rational or not.

    I can appreciate that you would have liked to buy more gold SQL’s to give as gifts and are concerned about dealers (and flippers by proxy) stocking their inventory. If you re-read my comment, you’ll notice I made little mention of HH limits in general. For the SQL, seems there are no shortages to the point that none are available on the secondary market. Even if they stopped making more today. People bought that had no intention of holding, so I feel confident in saying the coin reached its collector saturation point, give or take a few. You can make an argument for how many of a particular coin a collector requires. I’m not a huge fan of HH limits, but if there were no pre-released mintages, dealers and speculators would have to take a risk just like everyone else as to the popularity of a particular coin for resale. We all, collectors included, would like our coins to appreciate, not depreciate. It’s a nice bonus.

    As for no transparency, I never said “NEVER” publish mintages. The Mint should have an idea of how many coins they might need, they send out enough surveys. As to when to stop an issue, that could be determined when sales falls below a certain threshold or when they consumed the allocated resources for the coin. Nothing to languish on sale for months and months. Not really mint to mintage and not really mint to demand.

    I’m not saying I have the best or only solution, but the current system is broken, and is not IMO good for the hobby. The speed of instant gratification in the Internet age has created too many (gut) hyped, over priced coins on the secondary market. when the folks buying at those inflated prices find out they can’t sell for the same or more, they will quit. I got the ASE/AGE ten year anniversary Mint order form in the mail, just like most here. I passed on it, as it seems many did. Its current value is deserved and based on demand all these years later. How many would sell if the same access to information and ordering conditions existed as they do today? Many more than did that’s for sure. Some are happy with the way it is now, mostly because the Mint is providing them with instant income.

    Sorry for the long rant.

  117. Dustyroads says

    Sherry, We know one thing for sure, no (W) is mentioned for being on a coin in the set. We know the regular 2016 proof ASE will have a “W”. The RP Reagan dollar is minted in Philly. So does that leave the medal is the one minted in San Fran? So why don’t they say where the proof ASE is minted? They are…(S).

    Just my opinion…

  118. MT says

    @Sherry — The short answer is maybe. For more, read the posts on Sept 10, 2016 at 8:38 pm, Sept 11, 2016 at 6:48 am, and Sept 11, 2016 at 3:17 pm.

    If you believe the product page is accurate, the ASE will have a P or S mint mark. If you believe Coin World and Coin News, the ASE will have a W mint mark.

    @Dusty — The RP dollar reportedly will be an “S” and the medal is most likely minted in Philly. That accounts for (P)(S).

  119. cagcrisp says

    Guesstimates for Mintage and HHL for the Walking Liberty Half

    HarryB
    earthling 200,000/1
    Mike in NY 75,000/1
    KCSO 70,000/1
    cagcrisp 100,000/5
    MT 75,000/2
    Yes, But…You Can’t Take It With You 50,000/1
    NcCoinCollector 75,000/1
    Louis 50,000/1
    longarm 100,000/1
    Tony 50,000/1
    Karl Meyer 65,000/1
    Paddy 70,000/1
    Tinto 55,000/2
    Gary not Dave 25,000/1
    Steve 60,000/1
    Big L 75,000/1

  120. cagcrisp says

    Don’t read too much into the following “MULTI (P)(S)”. This wording is just a place holder. The wording has not changed since the first day the schedule was out. I have the entire Mint schedule from 12/19/15 and nothing has changed…

  121. HarryB says

    @Cag: my prediction for the upcoming Walking Liberty Half Tribute is based on the Mint’s experience with the Gold JFK tribute half. 75000 limit, 2 per household order limit. Structured for a sellout quick, the outgoing Administration members managing the Mint will want to max sales before Dec 31.

  122. cagcrisp says

    Guesstimates for Mintage and HHL for the Walking Liberty Half

    earthling 200,000/1
    Mike in NY 75,000/1
    KCSO 70,000/1
    cagcrisp 100,000/5
    MT 75,000/2
    Yes, But…You Can’t Take It With You 50,000/1
    NcCoinCollector 75,000/1
    Louis 50,000/1
    longarm 100,000/1
    Tony 50,000/1
    Karl Meyer 65,000/1
    Paddy 70,000/1
    Tinto 55,000/2
    Gary not Dave 25,000/1
    Steve 60,000/1
    Big L 75,000/1
    Peter 75,000/2
    HarryB 75,000/2

  123. cagcrisp says

    @VA Bob, “The Mint should have an idea of how many coins they might need, they send out enough surveys”

    Winged Head Liberty – Survey says 70,000. Mint say 125,000
    Standing Liberty Quarter – Survey says 35,000. Mint says 100,000
    Walking Liberty Half – Survey says 25,000. Mint says ?
    Winged Head Liberty – Survey says $170.00. Mint says tack on $30.00
    Standing Liberty Quarter- Survey says $397.00. Mint says tack on $50.00
    Walking Liberty Half – Survey says $770.00. Mint says tack on $70.00

    “they will quit.” Tell that to the SAME people that play the lottery week after week after week

    ” People bought that had no intention of holding, so I feel confident in saying the coin reached its collector saturation point, give or take a few” Those people on the bay that are BUYING coins could be collectors just like you are. Buying coins on the bay is a viable alternative to purchasing from the Mint directly. It may not work for you or me but it does work for some.

    For ME saturation point is reached when EVERYONE that wants a coin has a chance to get a coin. The HHL of 1 meant that Many that wanted a coin didn’t have the opportunity to get one because THEIR means of getting a coin was closed because of the HHL.

    The Vast majority of coins bought by dealers and big boys Never show up on the bay. They have their own network or websites that they disperse their coins through. With a HHL of 1 ALL those people that buy from dealers of big boys have been left out in the cold and unable to obtain a coin because of an arbitrary low HHL.

    SO…for ME… there is No way to determine a saturation point unless you open up ALL sales avenues and you see secondary prices drop because a saturation point has been reached and supply outstrips demand.

    ” but the current system is broken, and is not IMO good for the hobby.” See. I don’t think the HHL of 1 for the SLQ was good for the hobby because it made the tent smaller instead of larger.

  124. DBR says

    Of note for the 2016 30th anniversary ASE’s: the USM was taken completely by surprise the congressionaly mandated requirement of the smooth coin edge with incused lettering.

    The mint has had to scramble and respond to acquire the technological and machismo so means to deliver this coin. Result: 2016 ASE’s required some hustling but it’s ready!

    Question: would the mint only bother to install this new minting capability at West Point? I think not! Did San Francisco mint receive the technology for the smooth edges and incused lettering? I say “Yes.” 😃

    Estimate 2016 Gold WLH –
    75,000/1

  125. cagcrisp says

    Guesstimates for Mintage and HHL for the Walking Liberty Half

    earthling 200,000/1
    Mike in NY 75,000/1
    KCSO 70,000/1
    cagcrisp 100,000/5
    MT 75,000/2
    Yes, But…You Can’t Take It With You 50,000/1
    NcCoinCollector 75,000/1
    Louis 50,000/1
    longarm 100,000/1
    Tony 50,000/1
    Karl Meyer 65,000/1
    Paddy 70,000/1
    Tinto 55,000/2
    Gary not Dave 25,000/1
    Steve 60,000/1
    Big L 75,000/1
    Peter 75,000/2
    HarryB 75,000/2
    DBR 75,000/1

  126. cagcrisp says

    “For me a 150,000 Reagan “W” C&C is a No Go.”

    NcCoinCollector says

    September 14, 2016 at 6:43 pm

    My gut says the mint wants to win one for the Gipper (who signed the ASE cash cow into law); so the Reagan Eagle will soar.
    Given past mintages 150K may not be enough.

    That is what makes a market. When one is selling one is buying…

  127. data dave says

    @cagcrisp – What should the mintage and HHL be for the Gold WL half for the mint to maximize its sales? I am thinking they should figure out how many they can sell in 2 hours at a given HHL and go for that. Thus if HHL = 1, mintage should be 50K. If they did that with the gold SLQ, it would have sold out at 50K the first day. If HHL = 2 then mintage should be 75K. If HHL = 5, the mintage should be 100K.

    I am waiting to see if they lift the limit on the SLQ before entering my guess. I think if they keep the HHL at 1 they are leaving a LOT of money on the table.

  128. cagcrisp says

    @data dave, I Think the Mint could have sold the entire 100,000 SLQ if the HHL had been a reasonable number. I don’t see the SLQ ever selling out without raising the HHL and at that time it will be too late.

    For ME a mintage of 100,000 and a HHL of 5 is reasonable. I would prefer a HHL of 10 but that’s too much to ask for. The Guesstimate is what I Think the Mint will do and 100,000/5 is what I think the Mint will do.

    I too wanted to wait on my guess (I can always change it) until we see IF/When the Mint changes the HHL on the SLQ. IF/When they do it will tell me much more about the desires of the Mint to get the maximum number of coins in the hands of the general public or not…

  129. MT says

    More from CW on the WLH: “The gold half dollar is 27 millimeters in diameter, the same as that for the half-ounce gold American Eagle, and is 2.2 millimeters in thickness.” (I don’t recall if these specs were ever mentioned before.)

    Compare to the 90% silver 1916-1947 Walking Liberty half dollar dimensions:
    Diameter: 30.63 mm
    Thickness: 1.8 mm

    So the diameter of the gold 2016 WLH diameter actually will be closer to the diameter of the 1916 SLQ (24.3 mm) than to the diameter of the 1916 WLH. In a perfect world, the half-ounce gold WLH would have been wider and thinner to more closely replicate the dimensions of the original.

  130. MT says

    @cagcrisp — “I have the entire Mint schedule from 12/19/15 and nothing has changed…”

    Are you aware of any cases from this year or any past year where the initially stated minting facilities for a given product were incorrect or later modified? If so, that might be an indicator of it just being a place holder as opposed to early knowledge of what is going to be in every product.

  131. Dave SW FL says

    MT
    They used the quarter ounce planchets to save on production costs. They can use already existing planchets used for bullion instead of special ordering planchets to match the diameter of the silver SLQ. Ditto the WLH half oz. planchets.
    These are tributes. There was never any indication that they would replicate the dimensions of the silvers….only the designs of obverse and reverse.
    By using computers, even the design did not meet the standard as was shown on the gold dime without split bands, etc.

  132. Guama says

    Was there ever a discussion on the 30th Anniversary ASE similar to the 25th collector set? That would have been sweet due to the fact I missed the opportunity to collect one of those beauties.

  133. So Krates says

    Dave SW FL – The AGE planchets are .9167 fine while the tribute coins are .9999 fine. The Gold Buffalo planchets would work but they haven’t made them in eight years. I HIGHLY doubt they had a third of a million planchets lying around waiting for this program to come up so I don’t see how any savings from using bullion could have been achieved.

  134. Dave SW FL says

    SoK

    Well, you got me on the quarter, but for the gold Walker, there’s probably lots of First Spouse half ounce .9999 planchets left over😬

  135. Dave SW FL says

    But I did not check diameter and thickness.

    Guess these were harder to make than I gave credit for.

    The mint took on a lot this year what with the SAE requirements in addition to these trinkets.

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