CCAC Supports Potential 2015 24-Karat Gold Ultra High Relief Coin

During a teleconference meeting held this afternoon, the members of the Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee (CCAC) expressed their support, enthusiasm, and excitement for potential 2015 24-Karat Gold Ultra High Relief Coins and accompanying Silver Medals from the United States Mint. Members commented on how the initiative could serve to fulfill former Mint Director Edmund Moy’s call for a neo-renaissance in American coin design.

At the onset of the meeting, April Stafford of the US Mint provided some background on the potential gold coin and silver medal. Back in April, the CCAC had made a formal recommendation for a new reverse design for the American Silver Eagle. Ms. Stafford indicated that the US Mint would not pursue a reverse design change for the Silver Eagle, but instead pursue the idea of a potential ultra high relief gold coin and silver medal.

eagle-reverse-design

The potential gold coin would carry the eagle reverse design recommended by the CCAC, along with an obverse design carrying a modern rendition of Liberty. The coin would be struck in 1 troy ounce of 24 karat gold with the denomination to be determined. The silver medal would feature the same design as the gold coin.

Authority to produce the gold coin would be sought from the Secretary of the Treasury under 31 U.S.C. § 5112(i)(4)(C). As discussed yesterday, this section of the law provides the Secretary with the authority to strike gold coins with broad discretion over the design, specifications, qualities, denominations, and inscriptions. Authority to produce the silver medals would be sought from the Secretary under 31 U.S.C. § 5111 (a)(2). This section allows the Secretary to produce national medal dies and strike national and other medals.

2009 Ultra High Relief Gold Coin

Ms. Stafford and CCAC members recalled the original intention of Director Edmund Moy when he created the 2009 Ultra High Relief Double Eagle Gold Coin. The original design envisioned by Augustus Saint-Gaudens back in 1907 could not be realized due to limitations in the technology of the era. Moy sought to correct this past failure by using modern technology to finally fulfill Saint-Gaudens’ artistic vision. Moy had been hopeful for future ultra high relief coins with modern designs. Despite the six year gap, the proposed coin would put the original idea back on track.

CCAC member Donald Scarinci called the Mint’s proposal a historic initiative that could fulfill Moy’s calls for a neo-Renaissance in American coin design made during a keynote presentation delivered in September 2007 at the FIDEM “Art of the Medal” conference. In effect, the 2009 UHR had brought about the close of one era, setting the stage for the dawn of a new era.

Could the neo-Renaissance finally be close at hand?

The Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee provided their endorsement and support of the Mint’s proposal for the 2015 Ultra High Relief Gold Coin and Silver Medal. The motion carried the unanimous support of all current members of the committee.

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Comments

  1. Mint News Blog says

    There are no obverse choices yet, if the proposal moves forward US Mint Scultpor-Engravers and Artistic Infusion Program members would create some design candidates.

  2. says

    I had hoped that the Mint would have went in another direction instead of reviving Miss Liberty and the eagle reverse, especially in a more “modern” version. The 2009 UHR has a classic design. Why does the Mint feel that the modern gold eagle needs a revision?

    There were many other options the Mint could have explored, including the many design images suggested by the Mint News Blog commenters.

  3. says

    Is the Eagle shown not the same eagle that is supposed to be on the back of the Gold US Marshal coin that will be unveiled tomorrow?

  4. says

    high low silver,

    The reverse that you like, and the one the Mint has apparently chosen, has “$5” on it. Wouldn’t it have been more classy if they had used “five dollars” instead? To me, “$5” belongs more on a token than a gold coin.

  5. Hidalgo says

    Among older coins, I personally would like to see a high relief version of the Indian Head gold quarter eagle design (from 1908 – 1929). Among coins minted in the 21st century, I look the obverse of the Star Spangled Banner silver coins.

    I think both designs would look awesome in high relief!

  6. high low silver says

    Fav. Commem is a 1915 Pan Pac SILVER….Obv by Barber, Rev by Morgan !!! Wow!!….just Wow!!…….

  7. GoldFishin says

    What worries me about the this proposal is what an ” obverse design carrying a modern rendition of Liberty” would entail. I wonder if it will be something former Mint director Moy would approve of.

  8. Jon in CT says

    WTH does “neo-Renaissance” mean, exactly, when applied to coin design? Since the word Renaissance is capitalized, I presume it must refer to the European Renaissance, between the 14th and 17th centuries. While some magnificent paintings and sculptures were created during the Renaissance, the coins from that period look positively primitive. Google the terms “Renaissance Coins” and click on the “Images” option to decide for yourself.

  9. Jon in CT says

    What the heck does neo-Renaissance mean, exactly, when applied to coin design? Since the word Renaissance is capitalized, I presume it must refer to the European Renaissance, between the 14th and 17th centuries. While some magnificent paintings and sculptures were created during the Renaissance, the coins from that period look positively primitive. Search on the terms “Renaissance Coins” and then click on the “Images” option to decide for yourself.

  10. Paul says

    Maybe they could do a Statue of Liberty design from New York New York in Vegas like the post office did.
    With the price of gold, I was hoping they would do 1/4 or 1/2 oz coins. I love the old designs, as do most, but can’t they come up with new designs that don’t mimic the old ones? Isn’t this the intention of the artistic infusion program?

  11. Sith says

    I don’t see why everyone is looking to the past for future mint coins. Anyway this sounds too good to be true, no rehashes of old designs, no gimmicks, just a beautiful coin…hopefully.

  12. Sith says

    Jon in CT – As usual another amusing post, you never fail to disappoint me with your insightful observations.

  13. fmtransmitter says

    Individually number the edges please…Modern technology allows for this in the minting process and should be used to discourage the ever increasing counterfitters out there, imho and “sorta” thought out…

  14. Jon in CT says

    fmtransmitter wrote on July 22, 2014 at 7:28 PM:

    Individually number the edges please…

    That would mean the Mint would have to alter it previously immutable position stated at http://www.usmint.gov/consumer/?action=firststrike that “United States Mint products are not individually numbered and we do not keep track of the order or date of minting of individual coins.” 😉

  15. gary says

    Maybe the U.S. Mint can follow the lead of the Perth Mint. The Perth Mint now strikes coins for SilverTowne (high relief silver buffalo for Tuvalu) with their artwork and now MCM has an Augustus St. Gaudens (with his $20 gold design) designed by MCM, in silver, for Tuvalu. Get ’em now while they are hot! (Slabbed of course, with Special Chicago ANA label!)

  16. Hidalgo says

    @Jon – thanks for sharing the link to the Young Collector’s set. After seeing the pictures, I have decided to spend my money on other US Mint products.

    The uncirculated high relief versions of the 50th anniversary Kennedy half coins go on sale this coming Thursday. Does the US Mint plan to have a waiting room concept for these “mint to demand” coins? I would imagine that coin dealers will want to get their orders in right away to get a “First Strike” label assigned to their certified coins.

  17. karl meyer says

    Yes, yes,YES modern liberty obverse we haven’t had a new liberty design in what 80 years maybe they can come up with a lot of good designs and we can get rid of some of the dead presidents on our coinage. Maybe it could get the riff raff to think about the difference between liberty and freedom and adoration of men.

  18. Hidalgo says

    @Sith – I agree that the US Mint should look at the possibility of using a new design for the obverse. There are 100s of talented artists out there who can create highly desirable designs.

  19. RSF says

    This effort by the mint in no way resembles Teddy Roosevelt’s beautification program for U S coinage. It does not propose to change in any way our current coinage. Instead of “a neo-renaissance in American coin design” it is merely an effort to allow the rich to stack a more aesteticly pleasing form of bullion.

    It will probably be a beautiful “coin” and I will probably acquire one for my collection, but let’s be clear here, it does not represent a change to our coinage.

  20. Jerry Diekmann says

    Why is the Mint not pursuing changing the reverse of the Silver Eagle? The design is trite and not very attractive and should have been replaced long ago – it’s on its 29th year now. It’s also time to change the reverse of the Gold Eagle. I’m afraid with all these medals coming out we’re going down the path which has been taken to the utter extreme by the Royal Canadian Mint. Does anyone, or better yet, vcan anyone, purchase every PM coin they turn out each year. Talk about killing the golden goose – literally.

  21. Bob R says

    I just as would like to go back to the Walking Liberty reverse for the Silver Eagle, the one they have been using looks like a copy of the Presidential Seal.

  22. Clark says

    It will be interesting to see if the accompanying silver medal also will be “ultra” high relief, semi-high relief, like the upcoming 50th anniv Kennedy coin, or just an ordinary silver medal, like the one in this year’s Teddy Roosevelt Chronicle set . The success of the 2014 Kennedy silver high relief effort may influence the decision, but I wouldn’t mind having a U.S. silver high relief medal.

  23. Bob R says

    Collecting modern coins is like fish in the pond, the bright shinny one’s (proof) get the most the bites, while the standard looking one’s (uncirculated) barley gets a nibble from all the fish. I guess fish just do not look at the numbers.

  24. says

    Jerry,

    As I stated in a previous comment, our Mint now has a dizzying array of numismatic offerings. Just check out the list of available offerings that are listed on their numismatic production page. It’s a veritable candy store for collectors and flippers. Let’s face it, the Mint is the #1 big boy dealer.

    Unfortunately, it is getting more and more difficult to pick and choose for the collector, as tempting new offerings are continually pumped out. There’s the mentality that “I gotta have it”, which the Mint exploits in its favor. The proposed 2015 UHR gold coin is merely the latest example of the Mint dangling the carrot in the coin collecting game.

  25. VARich says

    So, the new modern design that will result from this pursuit will find its way onto American coinage, no? If not, what’s the point? Seriously, I don’t get it.

    If it doesn’t, then it’s a one-off offering, carrying a high premium, minted to demand…, Oooooookay.

    ’09 UHR was hugely popular because it was a Classic, lets not confuse the two. But seriously, I don’t get this UHR.

  26. Bob R says

    Off topic. Now that the mint canceled all those gold HOF coins on the waiting list they must return the shipping costs of $4.95 they charged us for each of the free bags they shipped out. Also realize the shipping cost was a whole lot more than $4.95 since they sent them UPS overnight signature confirmation, for a 50 cent bag. Maybe 15000 sent out, now refunded, thats some cash.

  27. Sith says

    @Hawkster – I agree with you in principle, but not with the proposed high relief coin. Also what would be the purpose of the mint, as far as collectors were concerned if the mint could not generate a “I got to have it” from its customer base.

    @Jerry Diekmann – I think they don’t want to change the ASE for the same reason they did not change the ATB quarter’s obverse to Teddy Roosevelt. its too risky, and when you are selling 40 million+ coins per year why rock the boat.

    @fmtransmitter – I would have to agree with Jon in CT, besides it would be worthless the TPG’s were basically started to stop counterfeiting, but the counterfeiters adapt. Then why would the mint care about secondary values (that is the TPG’s game), simply put if you don’t want a counterfeit coin then buy from the mint.

  28. Sith says

    @Bob R – They never charged for shipping those bags…”Unfortunately, we did not have time to clearly communicate to our customers that the $4.95 shipping and handling fee they saw on their invoice was inclusive of their upcoming coin order. In other words, customers will not get charged TWICE for shipping of their coin products during this promotion. We regret that we did not convey this clearly enough and will take customer comments into consideration for future promotions.”

  29. says

    Boz.

    As for your comment that we should have a coin of the Brooklyn Bridge with flags flying: I assume you knew that around 3:30am Tuesday morning a person(s) climbed the bridge, took down the American flags, and hoisted up whitewashed U.S. flags in their place. They somehow got through the locked gates and evaded the detection of the N. Y.C. Police, who had patrol cars stationed at each end of the bridge.
    It’s all over our local NY news.

  30. fmtransmitter says

    Maybe 15000 sent out, now refunded, thats some cash.
    Ah, they just fire up the ol printing presses…

  31. Gary S says

    I am just glad they aren’t changing the American Silver Eagle Design! Keep your hands off my ASE please!!

  32. says

    Sith,
    I think most of us realized that we wouldn’t be charged twice for shipping, once for the free bag and again for the coins. But, are you certain that the shipping charge wasn’t conveyed when the bags were sent out ahead of the coins? I’m pretty sure that a $4.95 charge was on one of my credit card statements.

  33. Sith says

    Hum never mind I had not thought that the mint charged for the bags then gave free shipping to the coin, which is why I would cancel the bag…that is a lot of refunds

  34. says

    So, basically, anyone who cancelled their HOF coins after receiving the”free” bag actually paid $4.95 for a bag worth about 50 cents.

  35. Bob R says

    The mint refunds all the $4.95 charged to your CC for the coins never shipped. Your CC was charger for the original order even though no coins were shipped, just bags. They will refund shipping for the bags.

  36. Bob R says

    If you would have canceled the order after the bag was shipped you just bought a 50 cent bag for $4.95.

  37. Hidalgo says

    The uncirculated high relief versions of the 50th anniversary Kennedy half coins go on sale tomorrow. Does the US Mint plan to have a waiting room concept for these “mint to demand” coins? I would imagine that coin dealers will want to get their orders in right away to get a “First Strike” label assigned to their certified coins.

  38. says

    Hidalgo,

    Wouldn’t a “first shipped” label be more appropriate than the bogus and contrived “first strike” label given to the big boys who crash the ordering process before the regular guys?

  39. Sith says

    First strike is a marketing gimmick, why would they change a wining name for honesty. FYI they don’t need the waiting area for this release, at least the mint does not anticipate its use.

  40. Pittsburgh P says

    About the imfamous bags 🙂
    If they sent you a bag you were charged 4.95$ then the coins would be sent without shipping charges. If you canceled before receiving any coins in that order you have to call the mint & they will refund your 4.95$. I bet alot of people don’t call or forgot since it was over 3 months ago… Like Sith I cancelled most of the bags but forgot 1 on an order the mint cancelled & had to call for my 5 bucks.

  41. BillB says

    I was charged $4.95 for the bag way back in late March. I was late to the party on the Gold BHOF, and my order for a number of them went in March 29th. FINALLY, yesterday the mint put ‘item no longer available’ in the status line. I never cancelled. I got the cheesy bag back in April, and definitely was charged the 4.95. I won’t bother calling for a refund. All in all, very disappointed at the ridiculous amount of time it took the mint to both ship these, and/or let others know they would not receive any.

  42. merryxmasmrscrooge says

    This article tells me with $18T in debt the government is desparate to make money.
    There are now too many modern rare coins.
    “If a beautiful woman walks into a room full of men, everyone notices her.”
    “If a beautiful woman enters a room full of beautiful women, few notice her.” corr.

  43. says

    Merryxmas,

    I’m glad to see that you feel so strongly in regard to there being “too many rare modern coins” that you made your point twice in identical comments–just in case a Blog reader missed the first comment.

  44. stephen m says

    I will have to agree with some here. It does appear to be more and more must have offerings from the mint and with rising prices. There must be a lot of folks with deep pockets fueling the increase of these expensive offerings but they, the offerings, will run the course. I still have to give the mint high marks for what they do offer but it’s too many at too much money for a lot of us, myself included. I’m sure the mint will continue to churn out these offerings as long as the profit is there for them.

  45. says

    I agree with most of the other comments regarding the “Neo-Renaissance” idea. The way to do such a renaissance would be to overhaul circulating coinage (or at least bullion) designs. A one off piece is not going to achieve such an ambitious vision. With that being said, I think I am more enthused than most people here at this offering and am happy they’re using a good design for it. I never got the 2009 UHR, so it will be nice to add one to my collection.

    Most world mints charge far too much for high relief gold products, so this one will be my first.

    Hidalgo,

    I think there will be no waiting room tomorrow. The appetite for clad products has traditionally been very low, even for unique offerings like this. I will be buying the clad halves because I am a big Kennedy fan and I want every Kennedy coin out there, but I will be very surprised if dealers and flippers generate a stampede. I am predicting tomorrow will be a quiet and uneventful day.

    Jerry,

    While I am disappointed they aren’t going to change the silver eagle reverse, it’s worth noting the design for the coin is iconic and extremely popular. The mint likely doesn’t want to rock the boat, and with tens of millions in sales, who can blame them?

  46. Segar says

    My preference for the new UHR coin would be the St. Gaudens $10 Indian design. That $10 Indian would be very beautiful in UHR format and it would also be the perfect complement to the 2009 UHR coin.

  47. VA Rich says

    Michael, et al.,

    During the teleconference, was there any discussion/mention of this new possible offering being linked to or aligning to the effort to revamp US coinage to reflect more allegoric themes of Liberty and Freedom? Isn’t that Act or effort supposed to commence in 2015?

    I hope so, I really do and would greatly appreciate if someone knows or heard something, chime in here. If not, even after sleeping on it, I still don’t get the purpose behind a one-off numismatic UHR piece that may not have any ties to history or past designs.

    Unless there will be an annual UHR Liberty piece/set that changes ever year (?). I’m sure it’ll look great, though it would be nice to know the intent. I do know that the 1 oz 24kt Buff and AGEs may see new lows next year, especially if Au rises. :S

  48. says

    Captain,
    In regard to the 2015 UHR , the most enthused collectors will be individuals like yourself who, for various reasons, missed the boat on the 2009 UHR. This upcoming 2015 product offers a second chance to get a true UHR directly from the Mint. The Kennedy gold, while nice looking, will not be done in UHR, as many collectors had speculated. An UHR coin requires a thicker planchet.

  49. Bob R says

    Just received my refund from the mint for the shipping charge s for my free bag. So the mint paid my CC back the $4.95 and paid UPS probably $10 for 2 day express signature conformation, so that’s about $15 it cost the mint for my bag. (not counting the cost of the bag)

  50. Steve says

    Does anyone think there will be money to be made on tomorrow’s Kennedy set after grading PCGS MS70 FS?

  51. simon says

    Bob R : about $15 it cost the mint for my bag

    There are very substantial discounts for high volume shippers with UPS / FedEx.
    It costs significantly less that the $15 quoted and is likely in the $1/lb range. The
    bags cost pennies in volume. For a few thousand orders the cost is negligible
    for large establishments.

  52. Mint News Blog says

    VA Rich – There has been a proposal for an American Liberty Coin Program, which would revamp circulating coin designs with Liberty themes (although they would co circulate with President designs). A bill was introduced, but it hasn’t gotten any traction.

    http://mintnewsblog.com/2013/07/bill-seeks-american-liberty-themed-circulating-coinage/

    The CCAC meeting did go on to discuss an Arts Medals Program, which they had recommended on a previous occasion. This would be a series of freestyle medals carrying different American themes. A working group was formed to explore the idea further.

  53. Clark says

    Here’s hoping the Arts Medal Program discussion doesn’t lead to a repeat of Jesse Helms’ failed American Arts Commemorative Series from the 1980s. I still have several of those gold medals, which are worth all of melt value despite commemorating giants like Mark Twain, Robert Frost and Willa Cather. The U.S. Mint’s and Frank Gasparro’s designs weren’t bad, IMO, but they failed for lack of demand and over mintage: 1 million Marian Anderson medals minted, but under 300K sold.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Arts_Commemorative_Series_medallions

  54. Louis says

    VA Rich- The possibility of doing this UHR set every year was mentioned during the meeting.

    For now, I would definitely want the UHR silver medal and will wait to see the design of the gold coin
    and whether I can afford it before reacting or making a decision.

  55. VA Rich says

    Thanks Michael & Louis – greatly appreciate it!

    Perhaps this is a first step in reenergizing America’s coinage & getting back to basics!

  56. Erik H says

    For those complaining about over priced mint coins the gold coins have the lowest margins of any coin in relation to their metal value. Also as the price of gold goes up the margin gets smaller based on the mint’s grid (until they revise it). Other mints charge way too much for their gold offerings.

    As for the bag, I plan on sending it back the next time I have to return a product to them. I didn’t ask for it and I have no use for it, but I wasn’t going to spend extra money to send it back when I first received it.

  57. VA Bob says

    I believe they are making a mistake, making the UHR silver a medal and not a coin. Medals, with a few exceptions, typically go for melt, even years later. Unless one likes paying a premium, or really likes the design, only later will go for it. Look at the 2003 Wildlife Medals, beautiful, low pre-announced mintages, first modern US silver medals, first US Mint’s use of a laser in the medals creation, and what are they worth now? What would they be worth if they said “$1” on each? I have one of the 25,000 possible sets (the Bald Eagle mintage was 35,000, the other three 25k), but I bought because I liked them.

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