Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee discusses industrial, religious, natural, and military themes in 2019 America the Beautiful quarters

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On Wednesday, February 15, 2017, members of the Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee (CCAC, www.ccac.gov) convened in a public meeting to review and discuss the themes and designs of upcoming U.S. coins and medals.

Most of the committee’s members telephoned in to the meeting, with the United States Mint’s talented staff efficiently wrangling the tech side from the eighth-floor conference room at Mint headquarters in Washington, D.C.

Three of us (Committee Chair Mary N. Lannin, member Jeanne Stevens-Sollman, and I) met in person at Mint HQ, since we served on a subcommittee jury and had an additional meeting lined up: phase II of our review and examination of designs for the 2018 Breast Cancer Awareness commemorative coins. For that review (later in the same day) we met with our jury counterparts from the U.S. Commission of Fine Arts.

Hall-of-Famer and Global Cultural Ambassador for the U.S. Department of State Kareem Abdul-Jabbar engages youth in Salvador, Brazil, on January 24, 2012. (State Department photo)

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Hall-of-Famer and Global Cultural Ambassador for the U.S. Department of State (and now CCAC member), engages youth in Salvador, Brazil, in 2012. (State Department photo)

Participating in his first CCAC meeting was new member Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, who has occupied the seat of Steve Roach. Steve stepped down from the committee last year when he took a position with the federal government. (In order to maintain the committee’s focus on representing the public, federal employees and elected officials are not allowed to serve.) Abdul-Jabbar will be officially sworn in as a committee member in March 2017.

The CCAC was established by Congress in 2003 to advise the secretary of the Treasury on the themes and designs of U.S. coins and medals. Our mission and purpose is to be an informed, experienced, and impartial resource for the Treasury secretary and to represent the interests of American citizens and collectors. Our general meetings are open to the public and the media, who are welcome to either call in and listen, or attend in person.

Our congressionally mandated review and advisement covers circulating coins (such as America the Beautiful quarters), bullion coinage (silver, gold, and platinum), commemoratives, Congressional Gold Medals, and national medals.

Quarters and Medals

In our February 15 public meeting we discussed the upcoming (2019) quarters for the Lowell National Historical Park (Massachusetts), San Antonio Missions National Historical Park (Texas), Frank Church–River of No Return Wilderness (Idaho), American Memorial Park (Northern Marianas Islands), and War in the Pacific National Historical Park (Guam). We also met with the president of the OSS Society, several military historians, and a special guest who joined our discussion of the Congressional Gold Medal that will commemorate the World War II–era Office of Strategic Services. I’ll update you on that project in a separate article.

As usual for the America the Beautiful coin program, the United States will have five individual quarters for 2019. My approach as I studied each of the five national sites to be honored was this: Instead of considering each coin strictly as a standalone canvas, I thought of them as a suite of five themes for the year. With this approach we can avoid ending up with, for example, five coins with scenes of wildlife, five mountain views, five architectural motifs, five scenes of recreation, or the like. Fortunately, 2019’s five historical parks and other sites offer a good mix of different kinds of protected areas. I would sum up the year’s coins as focusing on American industry, Catholic civilization, natural wilderness, a war memorial, and a site of military honor.

At this early stage for these coins and medals we weren’t yet reviewing sketches or plasters. Rather, our goal was to advise and guide the Mint’s artists as they begin their design work. Later in the year we’ll examine the designs they come up with for each coin or medal, discuss their merits, vote on each to determine our preferred design, and submit our recommendations to the Treasury secretary, who makes the final decisions.

Lowell National Historical Park (Massachusetts)

Mill-Building-now-museum-Lowell-Massachusetts-Daderot

(Wikipedia photo by Daderot)

This park was established in 1978 to interpret the role of Lowell in the American Industrial Revolution, primarily in the 1820s and 1830s. The canal systems and waterways created to power the area’s textile mills; “integrated” factories (with all operations under one roof); the use of large-scale equipment that created fabric without the spinning wheel and individual artisans of earlier years—these developments revolutionized the way cloth was manufactured in America. The era was also defined in part by the young women known as “Mill Girls,” mostly farm lasses from New England, recruited to work in Lowell and live in supervised, company-owned boarding houses. The Mill Girls became an important voice for American labor, advocating for better working conditions, supporting abolition, and embracing education.

Jack Herlihy, museum specialist at Lowell, joined in our discussion by phone. He opened the conversation by noting the value and importance of everyday work in American culture, and he called out two significant structures in Lowell: the canal system, and the clock tower with a bell that called mill laborers to work, let them know when it was time to eat, and otherwise marked the layout of their days. He described the Mill Girls as the first young people paid wages for this kind of factory work.

Robert Hoge, the CCAC’s member specially qualified as a museum curator, emphasized technology’s importance at Lowell. Erik Jansen, one of several committee members representative of the general public, observed that “Buildings don’t work well on a one-inch canvas,” and mentioned the spindle as a creative symbol.

My own recommendation was to focus on the human element in America’s Industrial Revolution, by featuring the Mill Girls at work—not necessarily literally, with full-figure forms, but perhaps by suggestion (for example, showing a young woman’s hand at a mill machine). Kareem Abdul-Jabbar agreed with the importance of the Mill Girls. Heidi Wastweet, the CCAC’s member specially qualified in sculpture and medallic art, warned against crowding the coin’s scene, for example with too many human forms.

The intent of this kind of discussion isn’t to straitjacket the Mint’s artists with orders on what to include in their designs, but rather to guide them with suggestions, ideas, and insight.

Committee member Michael Moran urged the artists to avoid overly literal designs—“Don’t show a photograph on a coin”—and Thomas Uram suggested a combination of technology and humanity, by showing a clock face with different humanitarian elements in four quadrants.

There was general agreement on the difficulty of using architectural forms, such as trying to depict the canal system, in the design.

Although each America the Beautiful quarter design is slated for later translation into a three-inch-diameter silver bullion coin, the circulating coin’s canvas is a mere 24.3 mm wide—and part of that space is reserved for the date, the legend E PLURIBUS UNUM, the name of the honored site, and its state or territory.

Of several potential inscriptions suggested by the Historical Park (e.g., “Spindle City,” “Mill City,” and “Art is the Handmaid of Human Good”), my favorite is “American Industry.” I think it nicely sums up the historical significance of Lowell and the industrial work accomplished there, and it does so in a short phrase—important given the small size of the Mint designer’s canvas.

San Antonio Missions National Historical Park (Texas)

Mission-Concepcion-San-Antonio-Travis-Witt

(Wikipedia photo by Travis Witt)

This network of four Catholic missions in Texas celebrates one of Spain’s most successful attempts to extend its territories north from Mexico in the 1700s, when the “United States” was still just a collection of British and other colonies, unclaimed wilderness, and contested lands.

“These missions were built as walled compounds,” said April Stafford, the Mint’s chief of design management, “containing the church, living quarters for newly converted Christians and a few soldiers and their families, workshops and storerooms, and bastions or fortified towers used for defense.” She described visual evidence of the blending of native and Spanish cultures, in European architecture combined with indigenous nature-inspired designs.

Lauren Gurniewicz, the park’s chief of interpretation, joined us by phone.

Robert Hoge discussed the crucial importance of the local acequias—the network of aqueducts and irrigation canals that delivered water to the missions for self-sustained farming and ranching. He also suggested working architectural elements into the coin’s design.

Erik Jansen asked that the design not have “a picture of a mission,” but rather focus on what a mission is, and how it relates to the creation and protection of life and culture. Ms. Gurniewicz echoed this sentiment, noting that the mission churches were not just buildings, but mechanisms for independence and growth. She also wondered if there might be a way to illustrate water as the lifeblood of the missions, reinforcing Hoge’s comments on the importance of the acequias. In terms of art, she mentioned the frescoes of geometric designs, in particular at Mission Concepción; artistic elements in the church doors at Concepción and San José; and architectural forms such as arches.

Jansen further recommended “some captivating element” that intrigues people who see the coin and inspires them to visit the mission park.

Jeanne Stevens-Sollman, another committee member who represents the general public but also is well known as a medallic sculptor, advised the Mint’s artists to keep their designs simple.

My own observation was that the prime focus of the San Antonio Missions National Historical Park is the importance of Catholic Christianity and Spanish rule in Texas. The park puts it this way: “After 10,000 years, the people of South Texas found their cultures, their very lives, under attack. In the early 1700s Apache raided from the north, deadly diseases traveled from Mexico, and drought lingered. Survival lay in the missions. By entering a mission, they foreswore their traditional life to become Spanish, accepting a new religion and pledging fealty to a distant and unseen king.” For these reasons I recommended—perhaps at the risk of combining Church and State!—using prominent imagery of a crucifix or cross, and/or a Spanish flag or royal coat of arms, perhaps in combination with indigenous imagery or a portrayal of native South Texans. Herman Viola, our committee member specially qualified in American history, liked the idea of a crucifix combined with native designs, while Heidi Wastweet felt it might be crossing (no pun intended) into political commentary, and suggested pulling design motifs from mission architecture. Greg Weinman, the Mint’s senior legal counsel, noted that if Mint designs feature religious symbols they should be tied to history, rather than religiosity. He opined that it might be a challenge to show a crucifix—although perhaps not, if shown as an architectural element. Ms. Gurniewicz also acknowledged that this would be “a fine line.” She noted that the historical park operates in partnership with the local archdiocese, that the missions are active parishes, and that some of the stone carvings do feature Catholic symbols that could be combined with indigenous art.

CCAC Chair Mary Lannin envisioned a view through an arch, possibly including a mission bell, with agriculture or canals visible beyond.

Tom Uram suggested a design showing an irrigation ditch (joking that a numismatist might call it a “cracked die”), with different design elements featured on either side of it.

A transcript of these discussions is provided to the Mint’s staff of artists, based in Philadelphia, and to Artistic Infusion Program artists who might be involved in the design process for these coins. In addition, sculptor-engraver Don Everhart was present in person at the meeting, as was Ron Harrigal, the Mint’s acting quality manager. The latter two gentlemen answer questions and offer insight on sculpting, engraving, die production, die wear, and other technical aspects of coinage as they relate to specific design proposals. It’s common to hear at least once per CCAC meeting, “Don, can this design actually be coined?”

Frank Church–River of No Return Wilderness (Idaho)

River-of-No-Return-Wilderness-USFS

(Wikipedia photo by U.S. Forest Service)

This is an interesting national site—a sprawling wilderness, encompassing some 2.3 million acres—that presents special challenges and opportunities for a quarter dollar design.

Idaho’s Frank Church–River of No Return Wilderness covers rugged mountains (dominated by the Salmon River Mountains, the Clearwater Mountains, and the Bighorn Crags), deep gorges (the Salmon River Canyon is deeper than the Grand Canyon), whitewater rivers, and clear-water lakes. It’s so big there are four national forests inside it! Some 800,000 of its acres have an extensive trail system for the enjoyment of hikers and horse packers, but 1.5 million acres in this remarkable wilderness remain trail-free.

In case you’re wondering about the unusual name: the “River of No Return” part comes from when boats could navigate down the main Salmon River but not back upstream because of fast water and rapids. Once you went downstream, the only way back up was by land. And Frank Church was a U.S. senator from Idaho who worked from the 1950s through the 1970s to preserve the wild central region of his state.

Cheri Ford, deputy forest supervisor of the Wilderness, and Dennis Kuhnel, district ranger of the Middle Fork Ranger District, phoned in to the meeting to offer their advice and join the committee discussion. They and other representatives of the Wilderness had already talked to Mint staff and identified potential devices for the design, centering on the natural landscape, wildlife, habitat management, and recreation.

Bob Hoge started the conversation by opining that this would be one of the most difficult concepts to present in coin form. He mentioned some of the wording used to describe the Wilderness (“endless rugged mountains”) and conservation principles like “Leave No Trace.” Hoge also pointed to the Chinook salmon as a potential symbol of the region, given its importance in the Salmon River and the Columbia River Basin, as well as its unique look.

Erik Larsen has visited the Wilderness and he told the committee, “This is not flatlands, folks.” However, he asked that there be “no bighorn sheep in profile or mountain skyline,” saying that such imagery would be a lost opportunity for the coin’s design. He asked Ford and Kuhnel for their advice to the Mint’s artists. They talked about the deep crags and canyon walls; horse packing (perhaps showing a pack string of horses and mules); whitewater rafting and other recreation; and the salmon that migrate all the way from the ocean.

Jeanne Stevens-Sollman echoed the sentiments of Bob Hoge, noting the region’s vastness and the challenge of capturing it on a coin. She specifically mentioned Bighorn Crags (a jagged series of summits) and the recreational aspects of the Wilderness.

Mike Moran offered the salmon or the wolf as potential emblems for the coin design—“not human,” he urged, because of the very remote nature of the Wilderness. My own comments were in line with Moran’s: this quarter needs to illustrate the magnitude and remoteness of Idaho’s protected lands. In my opinion, it should show a scene of natural wilderness with no human activity.

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, too, mentioned the wolf as an iconic animal that represents the American West.

Herman Viola pointed to the Bighorn Crags as a fitting symbol of the Wilderness, and also mentioned the wolf as a potential design element.

Heidi Wastweet urged the Mint’s artists to not use an eagle, because they’re not unique to the Frank Church–River of No Return Wilderness. “I spent 30 years in Idaho,” Wastweet remarked, and she recommended horse packing as a theme for the coin: “It’s a big part of the culture there.” She envisioned a scene of a pack string zigzagging through the wilderness.

I look forward to seeing what the Mint’s artists come up with to symbolize such a vast and wild region on a slightly-less-than-one-inch canvas!

American Memorial Park (Northern Marianas Island) and War in the Pacific National Historical Park (Guam)

American-Memorial-Park-Mariana-Abasaa

(Wikipedia photo by Abasaa)

War-in-the-Pacific-National-Historical-Park-Ga'an-Point-Daderot

(Wikipedia photo by Daderot)

The final two 2019 coins under discussion were for the Northern Mariana Islands and for Guam, two island territories some 130 miles apart in the western Pacific Ocean. Their national parks present unique opportunities for the Mint’s coin designers, because many Americans aren’t as familiar with them as they are with mainland parks. At the same time, they present challenges: as committee chair Mary Lannin said, “We don’t want two coins that look identical.”

Jim Richardson, superintendent of the two parks, joined us by phone.

The National Park Service describes the two parks thus:

War in the Pacific National Historical Park was established to commemorate the bravery and sacrifice of those participating in the campaigns of the Pacific theater of World War II and to conserve and interpret outstanding natural, scenic, and historic values and objects on the island of Guam for the benefit and enjoyment of present and future generations. American Memorial Park honors the American and Marianas people who gave their lives during the Marianas Campaign of World War II.  There are 5,204 names inscribed on a memorial which was dedicated during the 50th anniversary of the Invasion of Saipan. Within the 133-acre boundary are white beaches, sports, picnic sites, playgrounds, walkways, and a 30-acre protected wetland and mangrove forest.

Glancing at park statistics: Guam’s War in the Pacific National Historical Park hosted 489,000 visitors in 2016. This is an impressive number, but small in comparison to the Grand Canyon’s 5,970,000, or Yosemite’s 5,029,000, or Mount Rushmore’s 2,431,000. (The Great Smoky Mountains dwarf them all with 11,313,000 annual visitors. On the other side, there are a couple dozen other national parks that see fewer visitors than Guam.)

I cautioned the Mint’s artists that it would be very tempting to focus on what’s within these two parks—their beautiful beaches, the flora and fauna—rather than on why Congress established them. Specifically, American Memorial Park is a war memorial site that honors those who died in the Marianas Campaign of World War II. For that reason I recommend its coin show the park’s Memorial Court of Honor and Flag Circle, which is about as iconic a scene as you could look for. Guam’s War in the Pacific Historical Park, meanwhile, is a site of military honor. It was established to commemorate the bravery and sacrifices of all those who participated in the Pacific Theater during World War II—including the Japanese. Because of this, I recommend a scene of military action in the Pacific Theater. The Mint’s artists have plenty of documentary imagery to draw from to create such a scene.

Bob Hoge agreed that American Memorial Park’s coin should focus on its memorial aspect, rather than natural scenes. For Guam, he mentioned the island’s biodiversity.

Erik Larsen discussed the nature of war, military strategy, and geography, and the logistics of getting war materiel close enough to Japan to attack. For Guam, he suggested splitting the coin’s design into a before-and-after treatment showing military action contrasted with the natural paradise preserved by that action.

Jeanne Stevens-Sollman, too, recommended that the Northern Marianas coin be used to honor the military and civilians who died in the Marianas Campaign. She mentioned the Memorial Court of Honor as a design motif. For Guam’s War in the Pacific National Historical Park, she liked Larsen’s idea of a before-and-after layout.

Mike Moran suggested the American Memorial Park coin honor indigenous people of the region. The Guam coin, he said, presented a unique opportunity to show an underwater sea bed.

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar noted that sea life such as turtles are iconic. (This prompted Chair Mary Lannin to mention that, historically, as popular as turtle designs might be, they’ve “always been shot down” in the Treasury secretary’s final decision-making.)

Donald Scarinci, our senior committee member in years of service, envisioned a different approach. He said that “Congress commemorates military concepts well” and that “we as a nation portray ourselves through our coins in a military way, with commemoratives and medals.” He urged that the Mint’s artists instead celebrate wildlife and nature’s beauty, which were preserved and protected by the outcome of World War II, rather than war itself. “Stay away from the war stuff,” he said, “and let Congress legislate war things.” On a separate note, he observed that there’s a large body of stamps and coins that the America the Beautiful quarters shouldn’t duplicate, design-wise.

Superintendent Richardson seemed to agree more with my point: “World War II is the critical reason for the parks’ being,” was his response.

Next Step: From Ideas to Design Sketches

As always, the committee’s thoughts and observations will be forwarded to the Mint’s coin designers, and they’ll begin the work of dreaming up designs and sketching them in black and white. Later this year the CCAC will meet again to review multiple proposals for each coin. We’ll discuss each and rank and vote on them, and then Chair Mary Lannin will send our formal recommendations to the secretary of the Treasury, who has final decision-making authority for each coin’s design.

If you’d like to share your thoughts on the 2019 America the Beautiful coins, please feel free to contact me at tucker_CCAC@earthlink.net.

And a Postscript. . . .

Every time I go to Mint headquarters in Washington, I make sure to stop by the gift shop (accessible at street level, 801 9th Street NW) before I return home, and buy a souvenir of my visit. This time around I picked up the presidential medals of Barack Obama (three-inch diameter, bronze). The CCAC reviewed designs for these medals (one for each of President Obama’s terms) at our public meeting in Colorado Springs in June 2016, held at the American Numismatic Association’s annual Summer Seminar. It’s neat to hold these large, heavy medals after watching them go from concept sketches to finished product. The U.S. Mint does a remarkable job with its medals, and if you don’t already collect them you should give them a try. A catalog is online at www.USMint.gov; click on “Medals” under the “Shop” heading.

Obama-medals_obv

Obama-medals_rev

Dennis Tucker serves the hobby community as publisher at Whitman Publishing, the nation’s largest publisher of numismatic references. He holds the position of numismatic specialist on the CCAC.   ❑

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Comments

  1. Sith says

    Three more military\war coins, another coin of a building (and waterway), and mountain\river coin.

  2. Sith says

    Sorry make that two more military\war coins, two coins of a buildings (one with a waterway), and mountain\river coin.

    Sorry I did not know that the Alamo is not part of the San Antonio Missions National Historical Park. And as such it obviously should be the most interesting of the 5 sites listed, but…

  3. Sith says

    Sorry my bad again!Make that two more military\war coins, two coins of buildings with waterways, and mountain\river coin. I consider the aqueduct a waterway

  4. cagcrisp says

    Today is Launch Day for the Effigy (animal cracker) 5 oz. “P” puck

    I’m looking for a Decrease in sales of about 7% from the recent past for the 5 oz. “P” pucks

    Anything close to a Decrease of 10% would be a Major concern IF I was a “P” puck person and I was concerned about the viability of the series going forward.

    For me, the series is already doomed. It’s just a matter of when and not if. Today could answer the ‘when’ question…

  5. Sith says

    @cagcrisp – The entire series will slog through to the end, just like the FS coins. Yes the “P” coins are optional, but if you really think they will stop selling them, and just make the bullion versions, well I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale.

  6. joe#2 says

    We need LEADERSHIP at this Mint. completely ridiculous.
    For the US MINT NOT to have anything come out of it to look forward to. same ole same ole.. And the “NEW” items coming out which mostly all are NOT looking forward to. CRAZY.

  7. earthling says

    The US Mint is just a reflection of the USA. How are we doing as a Country? I dunno. Let’s ask China, N Korea, Russia, Mexico, ………

    Hillary? And our hero… obama…..😣

  8. cagcrisp says

    @Sith, ” but if you really think they will stop selling them, and just make the bullion versions, well I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale.”

    Yep. They will continue minting “P” pucks until the end of the ATB series…and …

    …Then…They will come out with Another limited 5 oz. “P” puck…

    and Another…

    and Another…

    Anytime you can sell $90 worth of Silver for $149.95, Go for it…

    It’s a Great Business Model……………..For the Mint…

  9. Rick says

    I bought a few Betty ford gold coins last week using my tax refund. Have to spend the refund on bullion anyway, I will buy five effigy 5oz this week. Why not?

  10. Sith says

    @cagcrisp – No argument there, remember when the ATBs first came out, the flippers went crazy.

  11. I started collecting yesterday says

    Nice ‘shout out’ to the Washington D.C. gift shop. They are my regular coin dealer and I really like going there. For the 2019 ATB, I think we’ve had enough of depictions of violence and war. How about a focus on buildings, indigenous sites, and natural wonders.

  12. Rob says

    If the 5 oz. P pucks were sold for $124.95 they would sell 30K easily. At the current price they will fail slowly. I was a buyer for the 1st 4 years, but I lost interest after that . . .

    The only way momentum can carry this series in a positive direction is to have the Animal Cracker become a new mintage low. It could happen.

  13. JR says

    Just got my new Mint flyer for the 2017 Boys Town Centennial Commemorative Coin Program. You would think with a name like “Boys Town”, there might be a “boy” or two on the coin, but no, lo and behold the obverse features a young “girl” sitting alone and gazing upward. I would have thought after the poor choice of a girl on the 2010 Boy Scouts Commemorative the mint might get a clue. I am through collecting any more moderns, the PC crap is just astounding.

  14. I started collecting yesterday says

    I think the Effigy Mounds is one of the best designs because (1) it memorializes space that existed before Europeans arrived and (2) it highlights the sacred space of indigenous people. Maybe ignorant people call it “Animal Cracker” and “Children’s Drawings” because it doesn’t represent the so-called majority religion in this country? I don’t know why such disparaging language is used for something so sacred other than to outwardly make fun of people who have been trampled on, murdered, marginalized, and pushed off of their own land. Sad!

  15. Dustyroads says

    I started collecting yesterday,

    No one is disparaging people that once lived there and created the mounds. To the contrary, I’m positive that the majority, if not everyone here would admit that the mounds are interesting and would want to know the untold story behind them.
    Little titles such as “animal crackers” are said tongue in cheek and are never meant to dishonor.

    The fact is, the design is simply unpopular. I suppose one may be able to do a better rendition of the park, but it may be difficult given the canvas space. So, I think it’s okay to laugh some about it. After all, it’s probably good advertising for the park.

  16. cagcrisp says

    ” outwardly make fun of people who have been trampled on, murdered, marginalized, and pushed off of their own land. Sad!”

    Oh Lordy

    Please don’t call a Winged Head Liberty Dime a Mercury Dime. I think that it is demeaning to all the Winged Head Liberty’s out there.

    You just can’t make this stuff up…

  17. Rob says

    Whomever first said they look like Animal crackers was spot on. They do. That is all. Nothing more. What is truly sad is when people assume negative connotation in an innocent comment.

  18. says

    I started collecting yesterday says
    “I think the Effigy Mounds is one of the best designs because (1) it memorializes space that existed before Europeans arrived and (2) it highlights the sacred space of indigenous people. Maybe ignorant people call it “Animal Cracker” and “Children’s Drawings” because it doesn’t represent the so-called majority religion in this country? I don’t know why such disparaging language is used for something so sacred other than to outwardly make fun of people who have been trampled on, murdered, marginalized, and pushed off of their own land. Sad!”

    So did you buy any animal crackers today, or not?

    And if so, how many?

    I dropped 40 bucks on Girl Scout cookies yesterday.., I think I’ll come out ahead on that one, at least as far as my price to joy ratio is concerned. 🍪

  19. cagcrisp says

    Lordy, Lordy, Lordy

    Wow, Wow, Wow

    17EB 2017 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1 OZ +2,883
    17EC 2017 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ + 548
    17ED 2017 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/4 OZ +679
    17EE 2017 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/10 OZ + 3,067
    17EF 2017 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 4-COIN SET + 4,959

  20. cagcrisp says

    17CH 2017 LIONS CLUBS SILVER PROOF 48,223 + 1,878
    17CJ 2017 LIONS CLUBS SILVER UNC 13,842 + 209

  21. cagcrisp says

    16XA 2016 WALKING LIBERTY 24K GOLD .5OZ 61,573 +232
    16XB 2016 MERCURY DIME 24K GOLD .1OZ 124,885 (1)
    16XC 2016 STANDING LIBERTY 24K GOLD .25OZ 88,511 + 208

  22. cagcrisp says

    16RA 2016 AMERICAN $1 COIN & CURRENCY SET 47,101 +69
    16RB 2016 ANNUAL $1 UNC SET 16,078 +113
    16RC 2016 LIMITED EDITION SILVER PROOF SET 38,309 + 308

  23. says

    Rob, thanks, that was me back in the spring of ’16 😃

    Costco has since started carrying tubs of Animal Crackers so I’m thankful for Effigy if it spurred the inventory of them, I buy them for the office and they’re quite tasty.

    I’m hopeful that all these peeps that appreciate crappy designs are still around when I go to off load all my crappy designed coins that appear to be art from the local pre-school.., otherwise I may be up a creek without a paddle

  24. cagcrisp says

    16SA 2016 FS GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ – NIXON 2,495 + 1
    16SB 2016 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – NIXON 1,567 + 4
    16SC 2016 FS GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ – FORD 2,299 (2)
    16SD 2016 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – FORD 1,560 + 5
    16SE 2016 FS GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ – REAGAN 3,382 + 5
    16SF 2016 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – REAGAN 1,828 + 3

    JQ1 2015 FS GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ – TRUMAN 2,620 +1
    JQ2 2015 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – TRUMAN 1,845 –
    JQ4 2015 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – EISENHWR 1,955 + 4
    JQ6 2015 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – KENNEDY 6,585 + 18
    JQ7 2015 FS GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ – JOHNSON 2,637 –
    JQ8 2015 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – JOHNSON 1,748 +1

  25. cagcrisp says

    To Summarize the Above posted Sales Numbers

    IF the Mint has a Plan “B” it’s time to roll it out

    Plan “A” Ain’t working…

  26. cagcrisp says

    Forgot 1 …

    16EA 2016 AM EAGLE SILVER PROOF 1 OZ 544,468 + 3,914

    16EB 2016 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1 OZ 23,422 + 105
    16EC 2016 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ 5,644 + 45
    16EF 2016 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 4-COIN SET 17,243 + 45

    16EG 2016 AM EAGLE SILVER UNC 1 OZ 180,544 + 1,587

  27. I started collecting yesterday says

    I guess it’s still funny for some people to make fun of minorities. Sounds like ignorant people still find it appropriate to disparage and ridicule primitive art that is older than Christianity. Comparing an indigenous altar or holy space to a children’s snack reminds me of when the ignorant used to make fun of the Catholic host, calling it a cracker. Lordy, lordy, when I lived in Pennsylvania with all those other Catholics, calling the host or the Eucharist a “cracker” was met with severe social ostracism. But making fun of pre-Christian and indigenous people is just fine with this crowd today. Get this straight: you’re not making fun of the coin design because the design is accurate to the monument. You are making of the primitive and pre-civilized art of the indigenous people who lived there. I’m guessing Animal Crackers is just Fake Religion while the others are legitimate and worthy of legislation protecting their precious feelings. There are still states where I’m not allowed to say things about Jesus Christ without getting put in jail. Call me old fashioned, but I think it’s out of line and in poor taste to make fun of the First Americans and the people who were here long before us.

  28. says

    cagcrisp says
    MARCH 7, 2017 AT 4:00 PM

    Lordy, Lordy, Lordy

    Wow, Wow, Wow

    17EB 2017 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1 OZ +2,883
    17EC 2017 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ + 548
    17ED 2017 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/4 OZ +679
    17EE 2017 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/10 OZ + 3,067
    17EF 2017 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 4-COIN SET + 4,959

    @ Cag, I typically know how to interpret your “Wow, Wow, Wow’s”
    But not on AGE first days sales.., need to clarify is that a strong Wow, or not a good Wow.

  29. cagcrisp says

    @ KCSO,

    Wow, Wow , Wow = Dismal, Dismal, Dismal

    Here is corresponding sales for 2016 for the same 5 items for Launch Week:

    16EB 2016 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1 OZ 6,573
    16EC 2016 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ 1,969
    16ED 2016 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/4 OZ 2,143
    16EE 2016 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/10 OZ 8,036
    16EF 2016 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 4-COIN SET 6,738

    This is Launch Week for 2017:

    17EB 2017 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1 OZ 2,883; Down 3,690 or 56%
    17EC 2017 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ 548; Down 1,421 or 72%
    17ED 2017 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/4 OZ 679 ; Down 1,464 or 68%
    17EE 2017 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/10 OZ 3,067 ; Down 4,969 or 62%
    17EF 2017 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 4-COIN SET 4,959 ; Down 1,779 or 26%

  30. cagcrisp says

    Extending the sales variance from 2016 vs. 2017 for the above listed AGE’s and you come up with a loss of revenue year/year of $13,497,220 at current Mint prices for Launch Week…

  31. earthling says

    Thanks to the US Mint for putting Effigy Mounds on the Quarters. One day I’m hoping to visit out there. I really appreciate American Indian culture.

    But since I don’t like the artwork on the Coins, I won’t be buying the P Puck…. not even the S Quarters.

    Can’t foresee buying any more pucks. I think I’m too bored by the whole series.

  32. says

    Perhaps everyone is saving there dough, not for cookies, but for Fractional Buffaloes and the Steller Pallidium design?

    There’s a reason why I live outside of the D.C. Beltway, far away and commute in.., the ratio of too many left wing, idealistic extremist nuts that are struggling to watch 8 years evaporate within 100 days is just too great for me. It’s getting really wired around here, road rage is out of control since the New Year. Our Founding Fathers would not be proud.

    So, who’s in for a full set of Boys Town? Just curious

  33. says

    Oh, & a data point –

    Those capsules offered by Provident for the Queen’s Beast, I ordered 25, they’re actually of good quality and fit 2 oz’ers quite well.

    There’s the slightest movement, perhaps less than 1 mm, and through creating a vaccumm when you close down on the halves, may cease the coin slightest movement. It works for me as I don’t sit there and intentionally shake my capsuled coins.

  34. Teach says

    I don’t think the new P puck will be an all time low mintage. I’m sure they will still sell more than 16.5 K. They need to lower the price and lower the mintage limit. Then they might actually sell out the P puck.

  35. Dustyroads says

    I’ve always expected a psychological shift at some point to occur in the casual PM coin collector. Those people who came in for the first time after the ceiling was shattered have to be questioning their involvement. If this is finally the case, then we can begin to move on to a restructuring of a more solid buying base for the USM.
    It’s been said that a fad lasts for 10 years, and we are at the 10 year mark of the big rise in PM’s. The next stage will unfold over the next 10 years. Exactly what that stage will be is still unknown, but it could be the creation of a solid, dedicated collector base…all inho of course, but I’m right.

  36. Dustyroads says

    I have 2 girls, 17 and 14. The 17 year old wants my old pick-up, while the 14 year old wants my safe. Who do you think will be the next coin collector?

  37. Louis Golino, Author says

    Regarding the earlier comments about Boys Town. The organization helps millions of displaced boys and girls and families, and there are plenty of boys on the coins. I believe it is called Boys Town because when originally founded 100 years ago by Father Flanagan, it focused on boys, but today it helps children of both genders as well as families, which is what is shown on the coins.

    This article of mine may help: https://www.moderncoinmart.com/info-vault/articles/boys-town-centennial-coins-coming-in-2017.html

  38. Jerry Diekmann says

    I haven’t been posting for awhile, as the Mint’s products seem to be losing enthusiasm and sales (rightfully so),and most posters seem to be tired and depressed about the coin hobby, as I am too. I am gradually purchasing less and less of the Mint’s products. I certainly won’t be buying that gold Mint medal this year, and no – I am not a bigot – both sides lack eye appeal to me. Just how many ways are there to show an eagle flying or perching, anyway? Thick ATB series is just about running on empty now. Can’t wait for it to end – hopefully we won’t have another series, unless the Mint would stick to only national parks – there are some good ones still out there that have never seen the light of day – like Sequoia-Kings Canyon in CA, Rocky Mountain in CO, Bryce Canyon in UT, Grand Tetons in WY, etc., but they are all in the West (that’s where most of the scenery is, and which had not been already settled), but knowing how PC the Mint is, they won’t be covered. Hell, two of them are in blue states and two of them are in red states – is that PC enough? The only thing that seems interesting in 2017 is may be a palladium proof coin.

  39. Louis Golino, Author says

    Dusty- Good for you. I always wanted to have some daughters since I came from a family of 3 brothers.

  40. Louis Golino, Author says

    I am not tired or depressed at all – not about coins anyway. American democracy, that’s another story. And I can assure you road rage has long been a problem in the DC area, which is why I have others drive me rather than get stressed.

  41. So Krates says

    I started collecting yesterday says, “I’m guessing Animal Crackers is just Fake Religion while the others are legitimate and worthy of legislation protecting their precious feelings.”

    Guess again. They’re all a bunch of hogwash, but I get your point. It would be like repeatedly calling the author’s proposed portrayal of the crucifix, a primitive torture device, on the Missions NHP coin, half a tic-tac-toe board.

    BTW, the communion wafer is just a cracker. Just ask the Cavanagh Co. which dominates the Body of Christ market and profits nicely from selling this magical altar bread.

    If I were to claim that chanting a spell over my corn flakes turned them into the body of Elvis you’d all think I was nuts. But substitute an old Jewish carpenter and some modified matzoh and it becomes taboo to criticize. Talk about Political Correctness. Just can’t make this stuff up!

  42. Barry says

    @cag- Do you think the Lion’s Club coin sales have reached the point for the group to receive a payment from the mint ?

  43. cagcrisp says

    @Barry, No. Unless sales for both Silver coins gets stronger, I don’t see any money going to the Lions Club.

    The US Marshal was the last coin that we Know received some payout.

    The last known sales figures for the US Marshal (for just the Silvers)are as follows:

    US Marshal Silver Proof 109,345
    US Marshal Silver Uncirculated 38,149

    Compare that to the Lion Club:
    Silver Proof 48,223
    Silver Uncirculated 13,842

    For me, the key to getting a payout would be having the highly profitable clad coins and the Lions Club has no clads…

  44. Xena says

    I started collecting yesterday: personnally, I think God has a sense of humor, and we shouldn’t take ourselves so seriously. I can poke lighthearted fun at various parts of my own religion (Episcopal), I don’t have any fear of getting run out of the churh or run out of town.
    BUT I think you are missing the joke. The term pokes fun of the depcition of the site on the coin. This group collectively has a great respect for historic sites and nature, I would imagine if any of us went to the site in person we wouldn’t say/think “animal crackers” (never been there, but the pictures don’t say that to me). But the term sure fits the coin, IMHO.

  45. Xena says

    Goat – I stopped reading the blog for a bit (needed the time for other things) and haven’t caught up with all the old posts. So maybe old news, but how are you?

  46. I started collecting yesterday says

    Being new to the hobby and industry, I guess I don’t always get it. Since I started collecting, two UHR Liberty coins and the Tubman $5 have been targets of downright hateful commentary. The Effigy is now the subject of jokes. I’m not going to sit by while sacred space is being publicly mocked and ridiculed. This is why it’s hard for me to hang out at coin shops, shows, or clubs. The Mint shop in DC is the exception because they’re nice people and they support the Mint and it’s goals. There’s never ridicule or mockery of minorities there. But why here? Sad!

  47. Dustyroads says

    Xena, Now I know I’m not the only one waiting for Goat to speak up. Unfortunately, he hasn’t written anything since he said he was having an operation and sounded concerned about it.

  48. Tom P. - MA says

    Some people are just looking to be offended. I had a middle aged white woman working for me who was offended that she was not asked to join a football pool. She didn’t ask anyone to join and no one would have objected to her joining. By the way she did not join afterwards because she was offended.

    Moral of the story? You can’t win.

  49. Xena says

    I started collecting yesterday: Why is it hard for you to be at shops/shows/clubs? I agree that the 2 guys at the Mint store are nice, but I can give you lists of people at those other places that are also. I don’t get it. Have you been to any of the local coin clubs? Alexandria meets next Wed night.

    So Krates usually dumps on religion when the subject comes up, doesn’t bother me at all. And So Krates, I’m with you on the communion wafer. God-eating is weird, not what I believe. Got a good laugh from your corn flakes/Elvis image!

  50. gatortreke says

    Probably shouldn’t add fuel to the fire but there were also the comments re: Chaco Culture that the design resembled a toilet bowl. I can smile at that even though I disagree but part of that may be due to the fact I’ve actually been to Chaco Culture and when I look at the coin, I naturally see the kivas. It’s an inspiring site and anyone who has been there can’t help but be moved. They were also motivated to visit it because there is no way they “accidentally” ran into it, it is literally on the road to nowhere.

    Regarding the above article by Dennis Tucker, I’m glad to see you are viewing this years set as a collection rather than five individual coin productions. I have to admit I get the Florida Everglades coin and the Delaware Bombay Hook designs confused all the time as they appear very similar, especially on the size of a quarter and me with my aging eyes.

    I wonder if it is not possible to illustrate both the war and environment simultaneously on a coin, something like a rusting war relic in today’s natural environment? The relic/wreck aspect is important to illustrate the passage of time, that 3/4 of a century may have passed but the remnants live on, slowly decaying.. It seems to me we dishonor a park named War in the Pacific without some depiction symbolizing the reason for the park itself. We don’t have to glorify the war, just recognize that it took place.

  51. KML in KY says

    I bought 2 of the Effigy Mounds “P” coins just as I have since 2010. Although the premium is high I hope to have 2 complete sets in OGP.

    As far as bullion 5 oz ATB’s go with their low premium over spot I usually buy at least 10 of each as they are released. Due to their low mintages and varied designs they are my preferred way to stack silver bullion.

    I have also bought 1 each “P” and bullion PCGS SP70 & MS69DMPL since 2010 and hope to have a complete set by the time the program is over.

  52. says

    Gatortreke, that’s an intriguing idea, and I’ll bring it up at our next meeting. Thank you!

    I’m interested in military history, I collect and study World War One medals, I’ve written for military and related journals, and I’ve published books in collaboration with the U.S. Army Center of Military History. On top of that, despite being a “Damn Yankee” I’m an honorary Georgia Colonel! But I wouldn’t call myself an aggressive militarist. Back in the 1990s Kenneth Bressett, perhaps best known as the senior editor of the “Red Book,” and at the time president of the American Numismatic Association, promoted the concept of an international set of peace coins to be issued around the year 2000. The ANA endorsed the “Peace 2000” project at the World Mint Directors Conference in Helsinki in 1994. A good idea that would have held symbolic weight as the world entered the new millennium.

    As other readers here have commented, and as Donald Scarinci was pointing out, there seem to be plenty of war-related coins recently. I don’t think, though, that the America the Beautiful program has been flooded with military themes. (Modern commems, yes, but not our circulating quarter dollars.) There were two in 2011, zero in 2012, two in 2013, zero in 2014, one in 2015, and one in 2016. The years 2017 and 2018 won’t have any. That’s 6 coins out of 45.

    The nature of each national park is ultimately what drives its coin’s design. You can’t sum up Gettysburg or Fort McHenry on a one-inch canvas without boiling it down to its military history. Other aspects of the parks — their flora and fauna, their natural geography — while very important, become secondary in that context.

  53. Gary Not Dave says

    If they go with that view of the River of No Return…I would be a buyer on that one..I am sad I am sitting out this years ATB 5 ouncers…just cant find one that grabs me. This will be the first year I wont be buying any 5 ouncers.

  54. old sailor bill says

    Maybe the “River of No Return” should have Marilyn Monroe & Robert Mitchum on a raft ? (1954 Movie)

  55. cagcrisp says

    Financial Stocks leading the S&P today. Gold down accordingly

    Lookout for the Fed being More Aggressive than Many thought…

  56. data dave says

    @cagcrisp – The lower gold price will help balance the higher premium. $80 over the Eagle and $50 over the Buffalo. And $400 over the bullion eagle I just bought. But overall a good time to be buying a little more. Fed raising rates (which I believe will be going the other way by this time next year) is keeping people away from focusing on how little room for bad news the markets are allowing. We are sitting in 2006 all over again.

  57. cagcrisp says

    @longarm, “Hopefully President Trump will do away with the ccac, maybe we should start a petition.”

    Wow…

    Talking about biting the hand that feeds you.

    Dennis Tucker is a member of CCAC and Dennis Tucker has the authority to shut this blog down.

    IF you don’t like this blog then don’t post but don’t do anything to stop allowing the freedom to post.

    SOMEONE has to make a decision of what coins and medals the Mint manufactures. No matter whether you agree with some of the CCAC’s decisions or not, they DO have various backgrounds and DO have representation of the general coin collector, unlike what we had Before there was a CCAC…

  58. blackbeard says

    I haven’t bought a 5 ounce puck since kisatchie came out. Interested in last year’s roosevelt, somehow held off though.

  59. Scott says

    @Joe#2, all it takes is a small impurity for a spot like that to develop over time. I have a .5 oz. Proof Gold Buffalo that I bought directly from the mint and it the did the same thing, but thankfully to a lesser degree.

  60. says

    Cagcrisp: No worries! I think Longarm is being facetious.

    On a side note: Nearly all of what the United States Mint produces is actually legislated by Congress. That includes the State quarters, the America the Beautiful quarters, the Presidential dollars, the Native American dollars, all commemorative coins, ATB silver coins, etc.

    The officers and artists of the Mint don’t come up with coinage programs, nor does the CCAC — our elected officials do. Then it’s up to the Treasury Department (specifically, the Mint) to go from legislation to actual coins. Not always an easy task (for example, when Congress mandated that the ATB silver coins be a technologically challenging three inches wide!), but the Mint gets its orders from Congress and moves forward.

    Again, final decision-making on coin designs rests with the Secretary of the Treasury, not with the CCAC. We’re a public advisory committee, and we serve as unpaid volunteers. Everyone on the committee right now is a collector, some are artists with real-world sculpting/engraving experience, one was a numismatic museum curator for many years, etc., etc.

    Anyone who wants to serve on the committee can apply for a position when one opens up.

    Elected officials and federal employees aren’t allowed on the committee, in order to keep its PUBLIC nature.

    Meetings are open to the public and are reported on with members of the press present.

    “Swampy” it ain’t!

  61. says

    blackbeard says “I haven’t bought a 5 ounce puck since kisatchie came out. Interested in last year’s roosevelt, somehow held off though.”

    – I think a lot of AtB collectors hung it up after Teddy. I bought heavily into the Teddy pucks, in my personal opinion, they’ll be TWO pucks to own when it’s all said and done –

    1. The Teddy Pucks
    2. And the lowest low, which we haven’t seen yet,

    Yep, two out of 56.., the others will command a premium, albeit stagnant, and a new sales average will be forming around the 15,500 to 16,500 range in due time.

  62. says

    I think I’m going to have to invest in some bibs should we get a Proof Pallidium coin this year to help contain all the drool.

  63. says

    Cag,
    Big, big day tomorrow, don’t go blowing all your cash roll…

    United States Mint Opens Sales for 2017 Boys Town Centennial Commemorative Coins on March 9

    WASHINGTON – The United States Mint (Mint) will open sales for product options in the 2017 Boys Town Centennial Commemorative Coin Program on March 9 at noon Eastern Time (ET).

    The introductory sales period ends on April 10 at 3 p.m. ET, when regular pricing takes effect.

    Public Law 114-30 authorizes the Mint to strike and issue up to 50,000 $5 gold coins, 350,000 silver dollar coins, and 300,000 half dollar clad coins in proof and uncirculated finishes. Customer demand will determine the ratio of proof to uncirculated coins minted within the authorized mintage limits.

  64. Sith says

    @So Krates, – Hear, hear!

    @I started collecting yesterday – Yes you don’t get it. A coin is not a sacred space. The coin in question has a bad representation\image of a sacred space. You do realize we call the 5oz ATB’s hockey pucks? Some of the First Spouse coins were compared to the crypt keeper. Are those commentators misogynists?

    You do have valid points about the UHR Liberty coins, even I found some of the comments revolting, but basic similar points can be made about other coins including, the Peace dollar (called a flapper), Indian Head penny (a White woman wearing the headdress of a Native American man,) and more recently the Boy Scouts Centennial (it had a female on the coin…the horror!) . All I can say is if all you have is a hammer, everything will look like a nail.

  65. data dave says

    @KCSO – On the pucks. I think some of the classic parks (Yellowstone, Mt. Rushmore, etc.) will command premiums along with the better designs and obviously the lowest mintage. I thought we saw the low mintage on the bullion side with 20K but I am surprised that Effigy hasn’t been able to pass that number yet. On the P puck side, its hard to say. If the premium goes up at all from here (through either lower spot or higher price) then we will probably see new lows.

    The excitement of this series is over and there are still 20 pucks left to go!

  66. joe#2 says

    With all the negativity comments on the UHR gold Liberty coming out 4/6/2017, Maybe even with 100,000 mintage will be a hit???? who knows….

  67. Sith says

    @Joe#2 – Who knows is correct. Maybe like the commemorative Jackie Robinson, those that buy it will have the last laugh

  68. earthling says

    On the subject of the UHR.

    Look for high demand in Italy – they view the Black Race as exotic and very beautiful. Also, due to an anticipated low demand, the demand will actually be quite good. Flippers will pile on at the bell.

    Within the next few years maybe the entire mintage will make it’s way to Italy? Flippers get ready. Back up the truck.

  69. J. Miller says

    @ So Krates
    Check out Aronra on Youtube. His Foundational Falsehoods of Creationism series is awesome!
    And for the “hardcore” atheist, CultOfDusty.
    🙂
    Is there a final photo of the 2017 platinum? Estimated release date?

  70. Old Big Bird says

    Looking at the US Mint Sales Number as of 03/05/17. It looks like the ATB “S” quarters the Shawnee and Cumberland will slowly limp over the 1 million mark.

  71. data dave says

    @Old Big Bird – limp is correct. They probably will make 1M but they might not pass Bombay Hook’s current low of 1.01392M. at their current sales rate of about 1K per week, they are still about 20 weeks short of that mark. I am hoping that the 1M mark is a psychological threshold that the sales will bottom out at.

  72. Mintman says

    JR/Louis
    To add my 2 cents to the conversation about the Boys Town Commem dollar with the female on the obverse—I too understand that the organization helps both boys and girls, and both are featured on the half dollar, but let’s be frank—a boy could have been prominently displayed on the dollar…the original organization was founded helping young men/boys
    Is it now a crime to have a boy on the obverse, does everything have to be so PC???

  73. Dustyroads says

    Old Big Bird,

    With Shawnee currently at 1,042,600, I am projecting roughly a 3.5% drop in sales for Cumberland Gap. That would put Cumberland at 1,006,109. I find it interesting that every first quarter release of the year is the highest seller. The gaps in sales between the first and second releases have been closing each year by 30-40% compared to the prior year, so since 2015 was at 5.4%, I put Cumberland at a 3.5% drop in sales.

  74. Scott says

    I don’t see the palladium coin getting much traction in the secondary marketplace. I rarely see any palladium at coin shows and it’s considerably more unavailable on the secondary market than platinum. I would prefer the mint resume production of fractional proof platinum eagles and fractional proof gold buffalos instead of launching a new palladium coin that will have questionable secondary demand after the hype wears off.

  75. says

    Not making an issue, just HIGHLIGHTING a FACT –

    Boys Town Design –

    Discounting Fr. Flanagan as he’s the only namable person on coins,

    If you count all persons among the designs, there are 12 people represented.

    Of the 12, there’s 6 females and 6 males.

    Caucasians, blacks, asians, and mixed appear to be represented.

    While I don’t have a problem with it, and frankly could careless. The distribution across the designs will be a selection factor for many in deciding whether to purchase a Boy’s Town coin.

    Sadly, it’s the charity associated with the coin’s release that looses out when designs do not sell, and we’ve seen that play out over, and over, and over.

  76. says

    data dave – “and there are still 20 pucks left to go!”

    That hit me for some strange reason, yeah.., we still have another 4 years to go.

    I failed to mention the classic ones/parks, yeah you’re right.

    Going forward, I’m in on Tuskegee and the Pacific WWII parks as I’ve explored most.., the rest will be a pass.

    2017 had some AMAZING puck design candidates that were passed over.., & the money will be walking away elsewhere

  77. earthling says

    Anyone here into Skydiving? I was Airborne in the Army – static line jumps only. My life is so dull now I’ve been thinking about getting into Free Fall Parachuting.

    Might scare the dirt out of me though. Might be better off just taking a few more naps per week.

    😴

  78. Dustyroads says

    earthling, That does sound like fun, as long as you’re meticulous with everything. A buddy of mine was Airborne also, but had a bad jump that screwed his back up for life.

    Scott, The design for the Palladium coin is stone cold cool. And regardless of what the secondary market reflects, it won’t matter to me.

  79. Dustyroads says

    Also, I don’t anticipate a long running program, the profit most likely will simply not be there. So, to me it’s a chance to get the coin as it’s released and hold on to it.

  80. cagcrisp says

    @Dustyroads “Also, I don’t anticipate a long running program, the profit most likely will simply not be there. So, to me it’s a chance to get the coin as it’s released and hold on to it.”

    Agreed. That’s the way I’m playing it…

  81. Mint News Blog says

    Speaking of new coin designs, you might enjoy this latest piece by Louis Golino about the possibility of commemorative coins for the 2026 centennial of Route 66: https://goo.gl/Wx4WvB.

  82. Louis Golino, Author says

    The plan seems to be for a bullion palladium at least for 2017 based on what is mentioned in the announcement I received about the CCAC meeting to review the designs. I’m afraid I will now have to whack you as you have state secrets.

    Speaking of which, I got a coin from the motherland today, by which if course I mean Russia. It went on an extended tour of the U.S., where it was stamped “subject to extreme vetting by order of the Czar Donald Trump.” You may now return to your regularly hacked smart tv.

  83. earthling says

    A& L Futures

    Airborne !

    Hey it’s great to know there’s someone here that used to jump . Your time sounds dangerous though. You weren’t one of those that did a combat jump into Iraq were you? My time ( 1980-1984) saw no major combat actions.

    Sitting here bored senseless though makes me think of getting all high on adrenaline by jumping once in a while. Of course doing Freefall Sport Jumping would be a totally different thing than military static line. It would be more expensive and certainly more dangerous.

    I probably will continue just daydreaming about it from time to time. Spending what, $6,000+ on a good chute, reserve, harness , jump suit, etc and who knows what on a ride up , is something I really need in my old age? Probably just looking out at 12,000 ft would change my outlook on the madness.

    Oh well, maybe I need to get into Fly Fishing.

    😊

  84. Rick says

    Some ebay dealers have been selling sp70 walking liberty gold coins below their costs ($865+grading fees) for weeks. Almost same situations for mercury dime and standing liberty gold a couple of months ago. Signs of depressed secondary market for modern? Interesting…

  85. mintman says

    I agree the the PC police are out in force with every new coin design.

    I’m not saying the designs are terrible, or that I wont buy them, but a prominent position on the BOYS TOWN dollar coin occupied by just a girl? Political correctness that is just out of control.

    No need replying with the history of the organization – I already know the good it does for boys, girls and families.

    Just like an earlier reply indicating the equal distribution of boys and girls across all the coins in the program…….that’s just fine…..but the prominent position on the obverse of the dollar coin should be either a boy or two children, a boy and a girl.

  86. Old Big Bird says

    @cagcrisp – that is correct I should have written Cumberland and Harper’s Ferry

    Cumberland is at 993,100 and Harper’s Ferry is at 991,640

    My old eyes slipped down a line on my spreadsheet. Thanks for correcting that.

  87. cagcrisp says

    Anyone purchase ANYTHING from the Mint today?

    I’m looking for a sales number AND a time…

  88. earthling says

    One day all the flippers will realize that no one wants US Mint stuff ……. except …. flippers. Flippers want to flip off to someone.

    So looks like the Mint has become the ultimate Flipper. They flip off to all the small time flippers. Once the small flippers figure out there is no one to flip to.. what will happen?

    A quick drop off in sales. Sort of like whats been going on since about 2008.

  89. Mike in NY says

    No purchases of the Boys Town commemorative coins or the Effigy Mounds P Puck. Normally I would have purchased both but I have totally lost interest in US Mint products. I’m tired of buying lackluster coins that can be purchased for much less later on in the secondary market. No more spending several thousand dollars a year at the mint. Now if I can only sell what I have and break even….

  90. Tom P. - MA says

    A big part of collecting anything is the hope that some piece of your collection will bring you a nice profit. Sure some collect stuff for the joy of collecting, but the majority collect for the hope of making a profit.

    In the 70’s it was stories of uncles who bought proof sets during the 40’s or 50’s. Over 3 million 1968 proof sets sold. Today the 1968s sell for issue price. No profit. Same for most others since. Sure collecting the entire 50 state quarter collection was interesting or a challenge, but again they are worth face value. No profit, no interest.

    Right now the market consists of flippers who know enough to unload their stuff fast … because the value of what they sell will decrease to bullion value over time.

    Personally I do collect the P pucks. It’s not a wild stretch of the imagination for silver to reach $30 per ounce. It’s already happened a few times in my life and will happen again.

    @cagcrisp I would give you order numbers, but than again what’s the rush to order today? Everyone knows these things won’t sell out for months.

  91. cagcrisp says

    @Mike in NY “. I’m tired of buying lackluster coins that can be purchased for much less later on in the secondary market. No more spending several thousand dollars a year at the mint. Now if I can only sell what I have and break even….”

    I think what you said is going to be repeated time and time again in the future…

  92. cagcrisp says

    Without a Secondary market, eventually you will not have a viable Primary market.

    You are watching that play out before your eyes…

  93. earthling says

    It’s Deju Vue all over again.

    Like in the 50’s where Washington – Carver and Booker T and the MG’s rode the wave all the way to the beach.

    Is everyone just plain spent out? I know I am.

  94. Ryan says

    Outdoors enthusiasts in Idaho almost uniformly HATE WOLVES!! It would be a huge mistake to put an animal that was reintroduced to that area on a coin!

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