Congressmen press the U.S Mint for action on counterfeit gold and silver coins

Washington, DC (October 29, 2017) — Congressmen Alex Mooney (R-WV) and Frank Lucas (R-OK) delivered a formal letter to the United States Mint and the Secret Service on Friday, urging aggressive action on the growing problem of high-quality counterfeits of U.S. precious-metals coins entering the country from China and elsewhere.

“Enclosed herewith is a 1995 1-ounce gold American eagle coin, carrying a face value $50 and ostensibly minted by the U.S. Mint,” Mooney and Lucas wrote. “You are free to keep it, as it’s a worthless tungsten fake.”

As members of the House Financial Services subcommittee, which oversees the U.S. Mint, Congressmen Mooney and Lucas are seeking information from the government institution responsible for the production of coinage for the United States, such as “the nature and quantity of complaints — and resulting investigations — regarding counterfeit U.S. gold, silver, and platinum coins within the last two years,” and “what anti-counterfeiting programs, if any, are in place to protect the integrity of U.S. coins minted specifically of gold, silver, platinum, and palladium.”

The congressmen request information as to whether, and to what extent, the U.S. Mint has taken proactive steps to protect the integrity of America’s minted coins, including reviewing and implementing the anti-counterfeiting measures already put in place by certain foreign government and private mints.

They seek clarification regarding the “expected roles of the Secret Service, U.S. Customs and Border Enforcement, and other federal law enforcement agencies in detecting and investigating counterfeits of U.S. coins minted of precious metals and the extent of their coordination with the U.S. Mint.”

The congressmen also raised concerns about a Secret Service decision not to investigate the origin of a counterfeit batch of American Gold Eagle coins when the matter was recently brought to its attention.

“We commend Representative Mooney and Representative Lucas for their actions in defending sound money and for beginning to exercise Congressional oversight duties in accordance with Article I, Section 8, Clause 5 of the U.S. Constitution,” said Stefan Gleason, director of the Sound Money Defense League.

“We look forward to a meaningful explanation from the U.S. Mint and the Secret Service for what appears to be a lackadaisical attitude toward protecting the only constitutional currency that is currently even produced by the federal government,” said Gleason.

A full copy of the congressional letter can be found here.

The U.S. Mint produces 1-ounce American Gold Eagles, Silver Eagles, and other precious-metals coins.

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  1. KEITHSTER says

    Ouch had a guy show me a Trade Dollar once and told him it was a fake. He wanted to know how much it was worth and told him not much but if it were real!!! But see how people get fooled so be carefull “>”>”> And Good Luck All<"<"<"

  2. gatortreke says

    If Congress would get around to approving a Director for the U.S. Mint, then they would have someone they could complain to. Until then, I don’t see how any member of Congress can complain when they haven’t seen fit to approve someone to lead the agency.

  3. earthling says

    A gold one-tenth ounce American Liberty proof will be put on sale by the U.S. Mint on Feb. 18, 2018.

    The year 2017 saw the issuance of the American Liberty as a gold $100 and a one-ounce silver medal.

    The two 2017 pieces had limited mintages. No word was available about possible mintage for the 2018 issue.

    Looks like someone wants to sell some Gold.


  4. earthling says

    My guess is that mintage will be low enough to get a fast sell out. HHL for the first day. Floodgates open on day 2. Sellout on day 2.

  5. Dustyroads says

    What efforts are being taken by some other mints to protect the integrity of their coins?

    I’ve thought for years that the USM could use a laser to apply a tiny number to each numismatic coin. Seems easy enough. The hard part in getting anywhere is Government bureaucracy.

    Something needs to be done, but will anything happen?

  6. Erik H says

    Once again we’re behind the times when it comes to our coins (and currency in general). Glad a few people are taking up the cause since so many other nations have implemented anti-counterfeiting elements to their coins. The money that was spent fighting for the 1933 double eagle’s could have been use for protecting consumers from buying fake eagles.

  7. Buzz Killington says

    I’m glad some Congresspeople seem to be interested in doing SOMETHING to protect the public.

    I think we may have to wait until those gizmos that can tell the composition of metal just by pointing at it become more affordable. And that will probably be a long time.

  8. DBR says

    Off topic- I received my American Liberty 225th Anniversary Silver Four-Medal Set today. I only purchased one. I was interested in all the Anniversary items this year. I didn’t purchase the gold American Liberty Coin.

    I like these medals. Mine are clean and spot free. The packaging is fine. Again, the obverse is not my favorite but I think it is growing on me. The eagles on the reverse are beautiful especially in all the different strikes and finishes. It’s a handsome set. We have to live in the moment so I’m trying to enjoy this year’s U.S. mint Anniversary. The information booklet was nice but appears to be on cheaper paper than the booklet that came with the silver coin version of this design .

    Compared to some of the “circus” coins offered around the world, I think this is a dignified set of medals that showcase the mint’s abilities.

  9. DBR says

    I stand corrected. There is no silver coin version of the American Liberty 225th Anniversary design that I bought earlier this year, it was a medal too.

  10. says

    I think this could help to speed along the confirmation process for David Ryder who has been working on the technology for anti-counterfeiting measures in the private sector. Also, I highly doubt the 1995 Gold Eagle mentioned in the letter is made of tungsten. It is nearly impossible if not totally impossible to strike as it;s such a hard metal. I have never seen a round or coin made of tungsten.

  11. Larry says

    If the mint wanted to sell a ton more of the American Liberty set,all they had to do was put “ONE DOLLAR” on them and make them coins. I don’t buy medals. I would have bought them if they were coins.

  12. Erik H says

    cagcris, your article has been pushed for the last year and a half in the main stream media (as well as the EU with killing the 500€). Hopefully now the other side can get some attention. Everytime folks push the cashless agenda I point out the hard reality of why it can’t work 100% of the time. Even before all the natural disasters hit this year I’ve watched merchants loose sales daily for something as simple as a chip reader not working.

  13. Throckmorton says

    Weird. I had a dream last night about some one wanting to trade four suspect 2014 AGEs for one 2012 W AGE. The four coins had an aged bronze finish and one was double the thickness of the other three.

  14. Daveinswfl says

    I cannot imagine retailers ever favoring cashless. Any loss of connection to the banking system in effect shuts the business down. It doesn’t have to be a hurricane. It happens all too frequently. Imagine going to the grocery, loading up your cart, getting items scanned, and then being told “ Sorry, we’ll have to put your order back on the shelf because the card reading system is down and ‘CASH’ is illegal!”

  15. Louis says

    Ryder was nominated on Oct. 5 and there was a hearing on his nomination on the 24th (as I discussed in my article last week) and a vote will be scheduled after that. That is actually very fast, and he is expected to be approved.
    The letter on counterfeits was from 2 House members, but it is the Senate, not the House, that approves nominations.
    Finally, as for the bureaucracy so many of you decry on a regular basis, consider this quote from Adam Gopnik:
    “What we should fear is not a deep state but a state robbed of its depth. As the historian Timothy Snyder has pointed out many times, it is when states are robbed of their memory and their self-respect, which are most often embodied in a civil-servant class, that tyranny flourishes. There is no “deep state” that exists beyond the scrutiny of responsible citizens; there is a cynical paranoia that always acts, and is meant to, as a pathogen to public trust.”

  16. gatortreke says

    @ Erik H: I fully agree with your position but I also recognize the world is moving more toward electronic payments and currency. I don’t think we will see the death of cash but it is needed in times of emergency.

    I also support the return of higher denominations. Imagine we produced a $500 back when that was real money to most. Now authorities want to get rid of the $100 not when it has more in common with an old $1 note, at least in purchasing power.

    I listened to an interesting podcast this weekend regarding cryptocurrencies, one I’ll link to at the end. It is interesting to ponder and I definitely understand it a little better after listening but I also chuckled when guest Trace Meyer was talking about the use of Bitcoin in Puerto Rico during the hurricane crisis. He enthusiastically described how your Bitcoin could be used, all it required was solar panels on your roof and a connection to a satellite stream. I couldn’t help but think, “is that all?”

  17. gatortreke says

    @ Louis: I am not arguing the particulars of the Director’s nomination, only wish to point out that the Mint has been without a Director since Moy stepped aside back in January 2011. That’s almost 7 years without a real leader who can legitimately set the agenda and deal with the many issues the organization has to handle, issues such as counterfeiting .

  18. cagcrisp says

    @ Erik H, Your Arguments reminds me of the same Arguments made with the transition from Land Line Phones to Mobile/Wireless Phones.

    The Arguments that in hurricanes and tornados that Towers would go down and that No One would live without a Land Line Phone.

    Now…How many millennials have Land Line Phones vs. a Cell Phone?

    It’s hard to put the genie back in the bottle…

  19. cagcrisp says

    @ Erik H “Need Internet too”

    The Market seems to Not Agree with your concern

    Here are the Largest 4 stock companies in the S&P 500

    1. Apple
    2. Microsoft
    3. Amazon
    4. Facebook

  20. cagcrisp says

    @Daveinswfl, “I cannot imagine retailers ever favoring cashless. Any loss of connection to the banking system in effect shuts the business down.”

    VISA just reported earnings Last Week.

    Here are some highlights :

    Visa Stock hit ALL time High

    “In the latest quarter, the world’s largest payments network operator saw payment volumes rise 9.8 percent to $1.93 trillion, on a constant dollar basis, with the United States accounting for about 43 percent of the total. ”

    “The stock has climbed 37.6 percent this year as of Tuesday’s close, outperforming the Dow Jones Industrial Average Index .DJI, which rose 18 percent over the same period. ”

    Retailer may not love but consumers seem to Love using VISA…

  21. Erik H says

    cagcrisp, I’m somebody that hasn’t owned a land line since 1997 and used my CC for a $1 purchase just yesterday. However, I’m just stating the reality based on the world I’ve travelled. I’ll be back in the disaster zone again in a few hours & know for a fact that land lines are also still down in is several areas (power will be down for several more weeks). Another reason people can’t use digital money with 100% reliability at this time.

  22. Buzz Killington says

    The idea that we need a lot of cash circulating for power outages is very questionable to me.

    If our infrastructure were in consistently terrible shape, I don’t think people would trust trading valuable goods for paper and linen with fancy engraved printing on it.

    If you are going to be prepared for a disaster in advance, then you don’t need cash, because you already purchased your supplies. Are people who don’t prepare for such things going to really stock up on cash?

    Anyway, I don’t think making monetary policy based on disaster-preparedness is a sound strategy. On the other hand, I do see social utility in creating a record of very large transactions.

  23. cagcrisp says

    16AN 2016 ATB SILVER UNC 5 OZ – FT MLTR 17,628 +11
    17AJ 2017 ATB SILVER UNC 5 OZ – EFF MNDS 16,049 + 34
    17AK 2017 ATB SILVER UNC 5 OZ – DOUGLASS 16,103 + 36
    17AL 2017 ATB SILVER UNC 5 OZ – OZARK 15,547 +76
    17AM 2017 ATB SILVER UNC 5 OZ – ELLIS ISLAND 16,507 + 281

  24. cagcrisp says

    17XA 2017 AM LIBERTY 24K GOLD 1 OZ 25,675 + 270
    17XB 2017 AM LIBERTY SILVER MEDAL (P) 49,355 + 961
    17XC 2017 225TH ANN ENHANCED UNC SET 210,485 +5,700
    17XD 2017 AM LIBERTY SILVER 4-MEDAL SET 25,740 + 3,092

  25. cagcrisp says

    16EA 2016 AM EAGLE SILVER PROOF 1 OZ 574,736 + 375

    16EB 2016 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1 OZ 23,788 +13
    16EC 2016 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ 5,770 1

    16EG 2016 AM EAGLE SILVER UNC 1 OZ 208,528 5

  26. cagcrisp says

    16XA 2016 WALKING LIBERTY 24K GOLD .5OZ 64,598 +57
    16XC 2016 STANDING LIBERTY 24K GOLD .25OZ 90,510 + 70

  27. cagcrisp says

    17EA 2017 AM EAGLE SILVER PROOF 1 OZ 326,176 +2,539

    17EB 2017 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1 OZ 6,908 +88
    17EC 2017 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ 1,780 +43
    17ED 2017 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/4 OZ 2,839 +58
    17EE 2017 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/10 OZ 11,158 +241
    17EF 2017 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 4-COIN SET 8,975 + 83

    17EG 2017 AM EAGLE SILVER UNC 1 OZ 127,722 + 727
    17EH 2017 AM EAGLE GOLD UNC 1 OZ 5,853 + 1

    17EL 2017 AM BUFFALO GOLD PROOF 1 OZ 14,006 +89

  28. cagcrisp says

    17CA 2017 BOYS TOWN GOLD PROOF 1,435 +6
    17CB 2017 BOYS TOWN GOLD UNC 2,209 +32
    17CC 2017 BOYS TOWN SILVER PROOF 23,960 +107
    17CD 2017 BOYS TOWN SILVER UNC 10,042 +33
    17CE 2017 BOYS TOWN CLAD PROOF 16,501 +46
    17CF 2017 BOYS TOWN CLAD UNC 14,348 +17
    17CG 2017 BOYS TOWN 3-COIN SET 5,167 +14

    17CH 2017 LIONS CLUBS SILVER PROOF 65,586 + 60
    17CJ 2017 LIONS CLUBS SILVER UNC 16,599 + 20

  29. cagcrisp says

    JQ1 2015 FS GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ – TRUMAN 2,717 +1
    JQ2 2015 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – TRUMAN 1,917 +4
    JQ4 2015 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – EISENHWR 2,066 +5
    JQ6 2015 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – KENNEDY 6,771 –
    JQ8 2015 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – JOHNSON 1,856 +4

    16SA 2016 FS GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ – NIXON 2,603 –
    16SB 2016 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – NIXON 1,695 +3
    16SC 2016 FS GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ – FORD 2,421 –
    16SD 2016 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – FORD 1,674 +2
    16SE 2016 FS GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ – REAGAN 3,462 +2
    16SF 2016 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – REAGAN 1,937 +4

  30. Einbahnstrasse says

    Okay, two months left in the year, so let’s see how those Boys Town commems are doing, compared to the prior low mintages in each category:

    Gold proof: 6602 / 13266 = 49.8%
    Gold unc: 2209 / 5150 = 42.9%
    Silver proof: 29127 / 61992 = 47.0%
    Silver unc: 10042 / 14497 = 69.3%
    Clad proof: 21668 / 47326 = 45.8%
    Clad unc: 14348 / 21019 = 68.3%

    As we saw last year, sales will likely spike near year-end with people trying to get in on a record low mintage…but still, it’s hard to see how most of these coins can avoid setting new record lows. The silver unc and clad unc might manage it, since they’re close to 70% of the way there now. But the other four would have to double their current sales, and then some, to get above the record lows, and that doesn’t seem likely at all.

  31. Dave swfl says

    I love my Visa card…….until it doesn’t work.
    There is NO reason to ELIMINATE cash. Consequences are drastic. See India for an example. And there ARE people who cannot get credit cards, believe it or not.
    Can’t we all just get along here?

  32. earthling says


    Its odd to see these mintages keep slipping lower each year. Is it because of the steady exit of Coin Buyers for other more attractive investment? Poor Coin Design? It’s both and maybe there are a few more reasons.

    Bottom line. When no one wants a Coin and only low mintage fans will buy anything, who can they sell to? If I dont want a Coin at $1,500 , I sure don’t want it at $2,500.

    When flippers start eating too many Coins, there’s a tendency to stop eating. Mintages roll downhill like a monster snow boulder.

  33. Goat says

    The commemorative program is to raise money . The (2) silver coins seem to raise a little for the need.

    When was the last time it raised money for the need, on the six coin and 3 coin set commemorative sells ?

    It’s been a 2-3 years now ?

  34. Jerry Diekmann says

    Earthling – the sales are lower on commem coins because the subjects are not interesting, the designs are bad, the premiums are too high, and the Mint has too many gimmicks for coin collectors to deal with. The commem coins for 2018 carry on the tradition of poor and uninteresting designs. I might not even buy any commem coins next year. All the commem coins now coming out are either for sports, the military, or fundraisers. Too many times for me – how many balls and weapons or PC themes do we need to have on our coins?

  35. earthling says


    I think the day will come for me when I feel absolutely no desire to buy anything at all from the US Mint. This year may very well be the year. I see nothing in the way of Commemoratives. Proof Sets, Mint Sets, ATB’s – ditto. Maybe I’ll spring for a Gold Buffalo and an APE… if mintages are kept low.

  36. Rob says

    Now even <125K ASE proofs is not an appealing mintage number anymore . . .

    I guess we need to see another ASE at <50K before anyone desires them again.

    There goes any hope for the 2012 and 2013 ASE sets that are nearly twice that mintage. Unless silver approaches $50/oz again these will all be dead in the water.

  37. Hidalgo says

    If you’re looking to earn a few bucks by selling the 2017 Limited Edition Silver Proof Set on the secondary market, you need to consider if it is worth it. The sets are selling for around $180 on ebay. Subtract the 12% – 13% for eBay and Paypal fees, and that leaves you with about a $20 profit per set.

    Certainly not worth it to me. I’m happy with my one set. :o)

  38. cagcrisp says

    Mining stocks WORLDWIDE are leading the stock markets WORLDWIDE today

    Copper is up 3%
    Nickel is up 10% in 2 days
    Base metals are Strong
    etc, etc, etc…

  39. says

    Wow…palladium is up to $1005 this morning. Its now $67 higher than platinum. While the rise in palladium will have no effect on the prices of the palladium eagles because they already have such a huge premium. I think prices have peaked and maybe gone down a tad. I just wonder if prices will stabilize where they are now, or drop significantly 6 months from now…my guess is prices will drop $100-125 , I really don’t know.
    I remember selling the gold baseball Hall of Fame coins in proof 70 for $1500. Today you can buy a ms70 and pr70 set for under $1100.

    On the other hand, I’ve been waiting for the 2015 Gold American Liberty coin to drop in price, but it has sustained it’s high premium… you never now how the palladium eagle will hold up…..I think 6 months from now will probably solidify its price.

    I see the 2018 proof palladium is scheduled for around fall next year. I wonder what the mintage, HHL, and price will be. Does anyone know if it will have the same design as the 2017 bullion Coin?

    One last question for you guys more knowledgeable than me….has the Mint said if they will also produce the bullion palladium eagle in 2018?

    Thanks guys.

  40. Larry says

    @ Rob, if you are talking about the 2013 ASE set with the enhanced unc coin, I doubt I will ever sell that set. I think that is still the best EU coin the mint has ever done. It is a beauty! Time will tell, but in the long run I think it will be a winner.

  41. Rob says

    Yes, I love that EU too, but they don’t seem to be holding their value with the numbers that were made. In excess off 225K if I recall correctly. It seems like a huge number compared to 125K for the 2017 S,, but that one is unique and not just another proof coin with a different mint mark I guess, so it does have that going for it.

    I just thought a ASE with 125K mintage would be more appealing to collectors and there would not be so many returns. As was stated many times; low mintages are getting lower every year and it is not so special anymore . . .

  42. Rich Hogan says

    The US Mint is all kinds of messed up. If you look on the US Mint website today at the description of the First Spouse coins, the text states that they are * One Dollar * coins.!

    In fact they are $10 eagle coins…

    “Beginning in 2007, the U.S. Mint began honoring our Nation’s First Ladies by issuing one-half ounce One Dollar gold coins featuring their images in the order they served as First Lady. This is the first coin program to feature our Nation’s First Spouses. Each First Spouse 24K Gold Coin coincides with the release of the corresponding circulating Presidential One Dollar Coin and are minted in proof and uncirculated finishes in 1/2 OZ. and .9999 FINE GOLD.”

  43. gatortreke says

    The 2013 EU ASE is by far the best enhanced coin the mint has made and it isn’t even close. IMO. Love that coin!

  44. says

    @ Rich…I understand what you are saying, but some of it is incorrect. First Spouse gold coins are not like $10 american eagle gold. $10 eagle coins are 22k and contain one quarter oz of gold. The $25 eagles are 22k with one half. ounce of gold
    As you said, you are correct in that the First Spouse coins are 24k, one half oz of gold with a $25 denomination. No big deal. Best regards, Steve

  45. says

    I’m still looking forward to comments on the 2018 palladium proof and whether the Mint will also produce 2018 bullion palladium eagles Thanks

  46. cagcrisp says

    @Steve , the Bullion palladium is mandated by law. The proof version is not mandated by law. Since the law was passed the only question was When production would start…

  47. Dustyroads says

    Steve, I’m about 100% unqualified to answer you questions about the USM’s intentions, but I would think that there is a very good chance we will again see the Pd Eagle bullion program. Without digging up numbers, which I hate to do, I think we can easily asses that the mint has done very well so far with Pd. However, gold coin demand is heavily down and retailers are suffering, as I’m sure you may have read about in other publications, so next year could be interesting. I mean, it seams as though the mint would increase bullion mintage to meet what looks like high demand, but the proof I guess could steal it’s thunder. As Trump would say. “we’ll see what happens”.

  48. Dustyroads says

    CasualCollector says:

    “The One Ounce Gold Uncirculated (17EH) is stamped SOLD OUT”

    We didn’t have to wait very long for an audit after the 2012 sell out. Sensitively, I hope that we will see another one at the USM soon.

  49. Throckmorton says

    The One Ounce Gold Uncirculated (17EH) is stamped SOLD OUT

    So using Cagcrisp’s number from Tuesday, we have an approximate mintage of 5,853 vs. the 2012 W mintage of 5,829…………….close but no cigar. Looks like the bulk order dudes should have ordered a few hundred less if they want to create a market.

  50. cagcrisp says

    @Throckmorton, Keep in mind you are comparing Audited numbers for 2012 vs. Unaudited numbers for 2017.

    Last Known Sales for the 2012 Uncirculated Gold was 6,118 vs. Audited number of 5,829…

    …SO…We will Not know if this years sales are higher or Lower until Audited numbers are released.

    Another thing to keep in mind is just how much Audited numbers for FS coins varied both positive and negative vs. Last Known Sales.

    Past history shows that the Mint’s Audited numbers can be Considerably different than LKS…

  51. Throckmorton says

    @cagcrisp, true enough, we will have to see where it finally lands.

    I’m hoping that it remains higher than the 2012 W just so the evident machinations of the “In” crowd go unrewarded.

  52. says

    Cagcrisp, Dusty, thanks for your feedback. Yes, I realize the palladium bullion coin was mandated by Congress…and it took 2 or 3 years to be actually minted… it mandated that it be issued every year? Thanks

  53. cagcrisp says

    @Steve, The law requires the Secretary to mint and issue coins to meet demand.

    Since the proof is on the Mint schedule for 2018 ( and it is not mandatory) then the mandatory coin (bullion) would have to be offered in 2018…

  54. cagcrisp says

    In Above , The law requires the Secretary to mint and issue Bullion coins to meet demand and since the proof is on the Mint schedule ,the mandatory Bullion coin would have to be minted and issued any year that there is a proof…

  55. KEITHSTER says

    Will take the sold out sign can wait for the audit:) Which should come in lower than the 2012 My worry was they stamp out more which is unlikely now!! Did get My last 4 medal set yesterday but what was funny is that it shipped 4 days latter than the one ordered just a few seconds before it? So it must have been to late in the day to ship the between orders anyone else have a 4 day shipping difference between close orders? Well Good Luck All”>”>”>”>

  56. says

    Thanks Cagcrisp…I wonder how the Mint determines how many coins need to be minted “to meet demand “. They seem to do that very well with the bullion silver eagle, but really underestimated the demand for the bullion palladium. I’m guessing they determined the mintage based on surveys they had done. I agree with Dusty….I think the 2018 palladium bullion will have a much higher mintage

  57. obie49 says

    It’s not the mints fault that a lot of counterfeit and fake coins are “floating” around. Congress, for the most part, is looking to blame someone and the mint is not the one. Congress needs to look at the countries that are producing these fakes and counterfeits and find a way to penalize those nations that are trying to make this terrible stuff. As long as the word “copy” is incused on the coin it is ok, but places like China are pumping out thousands of fakes everyday and trying to pass them off as the real thing and it is not just coins. A whole lot of fake stuff is coming out of china like bootlegged DVD’s, etc. If the USA puts pressure on there economy by reducing our trade with them, China may very well put pressure on those people who are making the fakes. –Food for thuoght

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