Circulating Quality 2013-S America the Beautiful Quarters

Great BasinLast year, the United States Mint began offering circulating quality versions of the America the Beautiful Quarters struck at the San Francisco Mint and carrying the “S” mint mark. This represented an unexpected new numismatic product type and the first time in more than three decades that the “S” mint mark was used on circulating quality coins.

For the five 2012 designs, the “S” mint marked quarters were offered in 100-coin bags or 40-coin rolls. Initially, there were indications that the Mint would produce a maximum mintage of 1.4 million for each design, however the Mint later clarified that this was only the initial mintage and the coins would be produced to demand. Product pages indicated that the bags and rolls would remain available for one year from the original on-sale date. The first design featuring El Yunque National Forest went on sale June 21, 2012, with the remaining four designs released on subsequent dates.

Collectors were caught by surprise in late November 2012, when some of the product options began to sell out. Within the next few following weeks, more sell outs occurred until the “S” mint marked coins for some designs were no longer available. Secondary market prices for these rose, hastening the sell outs for remaining product options. When the dust settled, the final sales numbers suggested mintages around the 1.4 million level for four of the designs and 1.7 million for the El Yunque design.

The table below shows the last reported unit sales for the circulating quality 2012-S America the Beautiful Quarters products. The second column and totals calculate the number of coins that would be included in the units sold.

2012 EL YUNQUE QUARTER BAGS & ROLLS Units Coins
100-coin bag (S) 10,017 1,001,700
40-coin roll (S) 16,961 678,440
1,680,140
2012 CHACO CULTURE QUARTER BAGS & ROLLS
100-coin bag (S) 7,279 727,900
40-coin roll (S) 16,528 661,120
1,389,020
2012 ACADIA QUARTER BAGS & ROLLS
100-coin bag (S) 7,254 725,400
40-coin roll (S) 17,093 683,720
1,409,120
2012 HAWAII QUARTER BAGS & ROLLS
100-coin bag (S) 7,100 710,000
40-coin roll (S) 17,478 699,120
1,409,120
2012 DENALI QUARTER BAGS & ROLLS
100-coin bag (S) 7,025 702,500
40-coin roll (S) 17,668 706,720
1,409,220

This year, the United States Mint has once again offered circulating quality America the Beautiful Quarters bearing the “S” mint mark. The number of products which include the coins has been expanded. In addition to the 100-coin bags and 40-coin rolls, a new Three Roll Set has been offered, which includes one 40-coin roll each for the “P”, “D”, and “S” mint marks.

Once again a specific mintage amount for the coins has not been indicated. However, the product pages for this year’s releases indicate that the products will be available for one year from the initial on-sale date or until inventory is depleted prior to the one year timeframe.

The table below shows the last reported sales for the circulating quality 2013-S America the Beautiful Quarter products. The first column indicates the unit sales and the second column and total calculates the total number of “S” mint marked coins included in the unit sales.

2013 WHITE MOUNTAIN QUARTER BAGS & ROLLS  Units Coins
100-coin bag (S) 7,572 757,200
Single-Roll Set (40 coin) (S) 9,688 387,520
Three Roll Set (120 coin) (P,D&S) 8,521 340,840
1,485,560
2013 PERRY’S VICTORY QUARTER BAGS & ROLLS
100-coin bag (S) 6,085 608,500
Single-Roll Set (40 coin) (S) 6,957 278,280
Three Roll Set (120 coin) (P,D&S) 8,924 356,960
1,243,740
2013 GREAT BASIN QUARTER BAGS & ROLLS
100-coin bag (S) 5,222 522,200
Single-Roll Set (40 coin) (S) 5,377 215,080
Three Roll Set (120 coin) (P,D&S) 7,879 315,160
1,052,440
2013 FORT MCHENRY QUARTER BAGS & ROLLS
100-coin bag (S) 2,906 290,600
Single-Roll Set (40 coin) (S) 3,423 136,920
Three Roll Set (120 coin) (P,D&S) 5,985 239,400
666,920

Despite the addition of a new product including the “S” mint mark and the positive secondary market performance for last year’s sold out products, the total number of coins sold is shaping up to be about flat compared to the prior year. At the time of this post, all of the products shown above still remain available for sale on the US Mint’s website, so unit sales and the number of coins sold will continue to grow.

With mintage levels for the circulating quality “P” and “D” mint marked quarters continuing to increase, the lower mintage “S” mint marked coins may represent an opportunity for collectors.

An interesting point of comparison may be certain “mint set only” coins issued during the modern era. For certain years, some denominations were not issued for circulation, but only included within the United States Mint’s annual Uncirculated Coin Set. As a result, these issues have mintages which are far lower when compared to the other issues which were minted in greater quantity for circulation. Most of these coins will carry premiums. Examples include the 1970-D Kennedy Half Dollar, 1973-P&D Eisenhower Dollars, 1981-P, D&S Susan B. Anthony Dollars, and the 1996-W Roosevelt Dime. Similar to the examples, the circulating quality “S” mint marked America the Beautiful Quarters will remain low mintage within the context of the series.

As a counterpoint, the United States Mint has progressively been moving towards more and more circulating quality coins which are only issued within numismatic products to collectors. Since 2002, the Kennedy Half Dollar has not been struck for circulation, but rather circulating quality coins have been offered to collectors in rolls and bags. The same transformation occurred with the Presidential Dollar and Native American Dollar series starting in 2012. This situation makes lower mintage circulating quality coins less remarkable.

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Comments

  1. Brad says

    Heads up, the 2013 Proof Buffalo is now “backordered.” So, it looks like my estimate of an initial run of 15,000 coins is probably correct. Now the million dollar question is, will the Mint strike more, or simply delare it “sold out” similar to what happened last year with the AGE unc? Hmmm. To order or not to order?

  2. Dan in Fla says

    I already have a couple of these and have been watching for a sell out. Oh answer my prayer and let this one go. But with three months in the year the Mint will probably make more.

  3. DCDave says

    All “backordered” items to date have been taken off backorder (gold 5 star gen proof and unc, 1 oz AGE, ATBs…). Early still to sell out, not impossible, but unlikely IMHO.

  4. says

    Speaking of quarters, I just got home after attending the Fort McHenry launch ceremony today. There were quite a few members of the general public who showed up to watch and get the coins, including one gentleman who told me he’s attended every single launch ceremony. Some of the national parks are apparently hard to reach – he claimed he had to drive down a dirt track for several miles to reach the Chaco Culture area, for example. The bulk of the crowd, though, was made of students from local high schools and elementary schools there on field trips.

    The weather at Ft. McHenry was pretty rainy until just before the ceremony finally started. I got a good soaking. They also had two representatives there, John Sarbanes and Dutch Ruppersberger as well as Senator Ben Cardin. The Treasurer of the United States, Rosie Rios, was there (this is a separate position from Secretary of Treasury), and the Mayor of Baltimore, Stephanie Rawlings-Blake, also spoke.

    There was quite a queue for the quarters after the event and people queued up almost an hour before the event started. Fortunately, there seemed to be more than enough for everyone and they got through with the line pretty quickly. We waited less than ten minutes.

    My friends snapped some photos, so assuming they look halfway decent I’ll post them on my blog Monday or Tuesday night.

  5. fmtransmitter says

    That Baseball test pattern silver version of the coin is ending in less than two hours on eBay. It is currently bid at $237.50 w/free shipping! That is is way over my price range for test coin that is not going to be on the final coin. Please correct me if I am wrong. Seems the designer is a winner either way at that price! It contains one ounce of silver. Day off so am going to watch to see it end as we all know that the bids seem to come in at the last seconds for bullion/numismatic products at auction.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/390654489693?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

  6. simon says

    CO : ” he claimed he had to drive down a dirt track for several miles to reach the Chaco Culture area, for example ”

    This claim is the truth. I was caught once on a trip there in a flash flood. We (me and my folks) were there till 4 am till the Navajo police showed up and towed us to dry land. Quite and adventure and LOVE the place !

  7. Matt says

    Chaco is worse than a dirt track. More like the road from hell… I was there too, working… The federal government hired our ambulance service that day to be on stand-by to cover all dignitaries. Like CaptainOverkill said mostly school kids on field trips showed up. You have to love our government because they gave each kid a free Chaco quarter that day in a small round plastic holder. A couple hundred buck more to the debt.

  8. A&L Futures says

    @ Brad et al.

    It would be an early Christmas if the Mint ended sales of the 2013-W Proof Buffalo at 15,000 units. Anything under the 2008-W would be a “flippers” dream come true.

    “fingers crossed”

  9. Addielise says

    Ordinarily I’d agree that it’s probably too early to declare a proof Buffalo sellout, but what if they have their hands full with the RPs and decide they need to focus efforts on getting them out instead? I believe the proof has been limping along, mostly due to the RP sales the past 4 weeks, but is it worth making another run of proofs with 3 months to go in the year when less than half the RPs have been shipped? Personally I’m hoping this is the case, or maybe that they’re running low on 24kt blanks so they’ll give us all an early Christmas present!

  10. high low silver says

    I don’t collect the s mint quarters for a couple reasons….1) How can you house 1 of each in folder unless it has clear windows to show both sides of the coin 2) I compare this offering to the 1987 Kennedy half not offered for circulation which was one of my early 90s purchase that has no real demand 3) its clad…..I would be all over these if they were s mint 90% silver unc.

  11. Brad says

    I think Addielise nailed it. The Mint may figure everyone’s “Buffalo Budget” is tapped out now after selling nearly 50,000 Reverse Proofs. It may not be worth the effort to strike any more of the standard proofs, since it took about 4 months to sell the first 15,000. Sales from this point on would most certainly be much slower, and the Mint wouldn’t necessarily want these hanging around until the end of 2014!

    If a second batch is struck, it probably won’t be more than 5,000 or so. If that’s the case, sales could end up similar to the 2012. However, I’m thinking this will be declared “sold out” in the next few days. There might even be a price decrease next week to move the last few out. It appears this is highly probable, with the first four price fixes in next week’s average calculation being well into the next-lower tier. The Wednesday pm rule could still spoil it if the price has recovered by then, but only time will tell.

  12. Jeff says

    With gold & silver tanking clad will be king s minted quarters and don’t over look 2013 Kennedy half last year they produce these half

  13. MarkInFlorida says

    Hey, the mintage of these quarters is only 3 times the mintage of the 1909 S VDB penny. Maybe they’ll be worth 1/3 as much some day!

    I know, I know, like baseball cards, few people saved the old ones and everyone is saving the new ones so they’ll never be worth much. I’m still rooting for a quick buffalo sellout.

  14. Hidalgo says

    I’m not so convinced that the lower mintage circulating S quarters will command a premium in the future. We’re experiencing a “new normal” of lower mintages for special products.

  15. Wylson says

    I’m guessing sold out on the Buffalo. They need time to prepare the pressing for the top selling first ladies.

  16. Dustyroads says

    Hidalgo~You most likely are correct about the S quarters, I bought all five rolls in `12, and will have all of them again this year, the Mints presentation box finishes out the storage. I’m at odds over whether I’m going to buy them again next year, I have been looking for even lower mintages for them.

    I’ve really been disappointing with my inability to put down some money on one of the proof buffs at the moment. I’m a little skeptical that the Mint is ready to stop production just yet, being that sales remain to be moving along, and prices are much lower than they were in `12. Although, I have to admit that if I suddenly find myself in a favorable position for purchasing a pr70, I would do it quickly.

  17. ClevelandRocks says

    To me, the “circulating S coins” are just another example of the Mint making too much “stuff” for me to keep up with (ie. RCM), but great article Michael.

    Off topic, I was pretty sure the 1oz proof gold eagle was on the way to sell-out (except the 4 piece set) since they were on backorder exactly 2 weeks out, moving back one day every day for months, but I was wrong. They are now in stock, so doubt a proof buffalo sell-out either.

  18. hawkster says

    As for myself, it will suffice to obtain one example of each of the 2013 circulating “s” mint quarters, as I did in 2012. Any number of ebay sellers will be offering the complete 2013 “S” set after the last quarter is released.
    I do agree with Hidalgo, in that lower mintages of new mint products will not necessarily equate to higher future premiums.

  19. im just a bill says

    I collect the S quarter rolls. 2 rolls of each (3 El Yunques). This year I bought the PDS offering. I have not seen one yet either, they are still in the box. Looking at the proofs and the ones in the mint set are good enough for me.

    I used to collect the pres rolls when they were avail at the bank. But when they stopped circulating them I spent them all. $1000 worth. That was fun.

  20. high low silver says

    I think the Mint should have released these into circulation , but if the max mintage per ATB goes down to 1 million , I would start purchasing rolls . I remember when the State quarters caught on in 2001, everyone was paying double face value for those at the flea market and couldn’t get enough of them.

  21. VARich says

    Anyone ordered a PR Buff as of late that now shows an ordered status of –

    “Your order request is on hold” ? I thought “Hold” status was just used for billing or shipping issues.

  22. A&L Futures says

    @ VARICH

    I placed a significant order with the U.S. Mint some time ago. That order was placed on “hold” as well. When the dust settled, the “hold” was the result of my bank’s unwillingness to release the funds to the U.S. Mint. After two calls (i.e., one to my bank and the other with the U.S. Mint), the hold went away.

  23. Matt says

    I had that problem too. A significant order for me anymore is 50 dollars, now that I’m broke I can’t buy any more coins from the mint or my wife will kill me. I guess I won’t be getting a proof buffalo this year either.

  24. VABEACHBUM says

    In this day of identity theft and CC Fraud, many CCs and the Banks that back them (Citi, Chase, B of A, etc) have increased their monitoring of transaction frequencies and amounts.

    Depending upon your spending habits, e.g., retailer, amount, frequency, some banks will implement a hold on a transaction, even to a previous retailer, if other aspects of that transaction are outside the previously established trends.

    My primary CC is through a credit union, and they give me the option to identify recurring vendors and threshold amounts. I also have the option of calling them in advance. I’ve never had to rely on this service, but it’s nice to know it’s there.

  25. Dan in Fla says

    I have bought quite a few offerings from the U S Mint over the past three years. Some of these are still unsearched in the Mint shipment boxes. Enter good ol’ Mom to take care of me after a badly broken ankle. She doesn’t see or understand I have a dream an image of me walking to Denver to see the Mint.
    Financed with some wonderful things stashed away from another day.

  26. Arizona bill says

    Speaking of Chaco Canyon…

    Once you visit Chaco you will be a transformed. It is a remarkable archeology site and splendid for it’s red rock canyons, sage brush and pinon trees.

    The area is hot in the summer and cold in the winter but well worth the effort to visit. I recommend a four wheel drive vehicle for your journey back in time.

    I suggest you read “Book of the Hopi” by Frank Waters to get a better understanding of the magic that awaits you.

    Mishongnovi

  27. fmtransmitter says

    @Dan in Fla: Maybe you could go to kickstarter and have your trip funded for you by others. Say you healed up and decided to take the walk for a charity or cause. Others could donate to your cause/effort and you could get publicity for it and achieve your dream. I wish you the best however you decide to go about your visit to the Denver Mint. Keep us posted.

  28. Dustyroads says

    hi low silver~I think it’s just a matter of time until we begin hearing stories about S quarters showing up in change. Most people will never know the difference or even what a Mint mark is!

  29. Erik H says

    Dustyroads,

    I dropped a roll of “S” El Yunque quarters into circulation to see if I’d ever come across one again. So far I haven’t. I did find a “P” & “D” El Yunque. The ATBs I see the most are Chickasaw & Denali.

  30. AKbeez says

    I did a little research. The last business strike Washington quarter with a mintage of less than 1.4 million was the 1932-D and 1932-S. Correct me if I’m wrong!

  31. Dustyroads says

    The funny thing is that I don’t see any of the older ATB’s, but I see `12’s and `13’s every ounce in a while. I think these quarters are all ending up in jars labeled “savings.”

  32. fmtransmitter says

    Well, I just got back from a Grand Re-opening, after probate from the former owner passing away, of a local coin shop. Advice I received on here. They had free beer, rum, vodka, meatballs, chips, door prizes, silent auction, etc. Was a fun time and I am getting tired with internet. What I picked up was two walkers, 1917 S “obv” and a 1918 “s”, then I brought my 2014 Kook, that I thought was lost in the mail and have since purchased another one, and traded it for a 1993 MS 69 SE NGC, old style holder. What was best is they are getting their premier membership next week and are willing to submit some coins I have been needing to grade along with some of theirs and pass the discount along to me. Thanks for the advice about finding a local shop to do business with because I actually got to see what I was going to purchase through the loupe BEFORE I paid and no eBay or paypal fees.

  33. Ray says

    the mint probably made 15000 proof gold buffs and recently surpassed sales of those, and that’s why we see the backorder note up. i’d like it to sell out, but it doesnt seem likely. with last years sale ending early compared to 2011, and with all these RP buffs sold that they have to make, i guess anything is possible.

  34. Hidalgo says

    @ClevelandRocks – The 1 ounce proof American Gold Eagle, as you said, did not sell out after being placed on back order. In fact, several US Mint offerings have been placed on backorder, only to become available after a few weeks (e.g., the America the Beautiful 5 ounce silver coins, rolls of ATB quarters, etc.). This implies to me that the US Mint has produced a certain quantity of products to prevent waste/overhead. When that quantity comes close to selling out, more is made/minted. What happens with the 2013 W Buffalo proof gold coin, and all other coins currently on backorder (e.g., the 5 ounce P ATB coins) remains to be seen.

    @ AKbeez – the difference between the 1932 D and S quarters and the ATB business strike S quarters is that the former were officially introduced into circulation, the others have not. There have been a large number of US Mint coins that have low mintages, but were never intended to be placed into general circulation. The Native American dollars, recent Presidential dollars, some of the Kennedy halves come to mind. Similarly, many proof sets contain “S” only coins that, for years, were never intended for circulation.

    In general, the premium for such coins has been relatively low. Will the general circulation ATB S quarters command a premium? I doubt it. We’re dealing with a “new normal” where low mintages of atypical US Mint offering are not much in demand. But time will certainly tell.

  35. merryxmasmrscrooge says

    too many choices. don’t need the P,D,S roll set. how much is clad going to be worth anyway?

    BTW, baseball pattern was avail. for $55. sold out in abt 1 hr, didn’t buy when i had the chance, i could kick myself. 3 versions, silver, bronze and copper all with maintages of about 20 per coin.
    Also 100th ann. of buffalo design (1913-2013) stamped on a large 1 oz. silver blank sold out in abt 30 min for $55. (mintage for that = 55)

    merryxmasmrscroogeohicouldjustkickmyself

  36. merryxmasmrscrooge says

    rev proof buff would look pretty good on a necklace, yo-yo check it out, bro!
    but still a student can’t afford that kid of coinage

  37. VARich says

    A&L, Matt, VABB – thanks for the insight; I got a little antsy to see a Hold placed on a back ordered product – that didn’t register. The last time I saw that was on a late order 10th ann. PT which went from In Process, to Hold to No Longer Available, and I’ve been kicking myself for that miss.

  38. VARich says

    Dan – are you saying that a box or two were inadvertently opened? I had that happen by a young nephew thinking he’d sneak a peak at ‘his present’ – my response, “son, for that one, you’re twenty years too early” – it was really the wrong one to open, oh well. Good luck with the ankle, that’s an awesome goal!

  39. fmtransmitter says

    No test pattern for me HiLo. That proof set is unreal VARich. I actually emailed that guy to see if he had any loose coins from Grandpa/Dad. He said his Grandpa only bought proof sets from the US Mint back in the day. Grandpa knew what he was doing with that “vacuum seal contraption” he mentioned. I see a new product coming on the market soon, vacuum sealed coin holder..

  40. fmtransmitter says

    @Steve, he has 38, 39, pretty much all of them.All the 30’s are in the thousands and I assume they will jump tremendously in the last seconds. Merry X-Mas Grandpa!!

    Question, has anyone ever used teletrade to bid on coins and if so what was your experience like? They accept paypal…

  41. Taribor says

    fm – I used to buy quite a bit from teletrade until their fees got ridiculous. They do accept paypal, which is how I usually paid. I quit for awhile,then came back one time to bid on coin, thought I won it with the high bid, only to find out it either had a hidden reserve or I got bid-sniped (which never showed up) – i contacted customer service and they ignored me, so I pretty much swore I’d never use them again.

  42. fmtransmitter says

    @Taribor: Thanks. I was just doing some research earlier, looks they have a whole new managment team and have joined forces. They will grade your coins for you. The buyers premium is 17.5% + $5.95 basic shipping. They take your grading fee out of your sale price. Wonder if the changes are different than when you used them.

  43. MarkInFlorida says

    @bill, I also cashed all my dollar rolls when they stopped selling them through banks.

    I can’t believe that the Mint will be releasing 10 different half ounce gold coins in the last 12 weeks of the year (or less). Considering the cost of diemaking, if they sell under 3,000 of each them must be losing on them. Wonder if they will be sleepers. But who will want to buy first spouses, ever?

  44. Face 1004 says

    I think the S quarters could be sleepers with a mintage of 1.4 million or so per coin. 1950-D at 2.5 million goes for $10-$15 in mint condition. It will be interesting if some of these coin book companies add the S-mint holes for the P and D sets in the future. That may create some demand for them. I really don’t think the general public or novice coin collectors are aware of these versions. I don’t think they will command a super high premium but if you can turn a quarter into $5 dollars then I’ll sell them.

  45. fmtransmitter says

    You can easily turn a 1950 quarter into $5 due to the silver content. These are clad. Low interest in anything clad these days. If you can turn a clad into $.50 I would be happy. 100% profit…

  46. Face 1004 says

    Sorry I was referring to the 1950-D nickel. What about 1909-S cent, 1996-W dime, 1939-D nickel,etc. These have no silver in them and are worth some money in mint state. The dime being the cheapest. Silver isn’t everything.

  47. Taribor says

    FM – I think those are close/same as when i used them. They say they don’t use hidden reserves but you can also ‘buy back’ your coin for free and something about that seems fishy to me. I bid on a 95w silve eagle…….i bid last second and was high bidder at auction end at $2800……but never got an invoice so i checked the sales price and said it “sold” for $3800, which means there would have had to be at least two more bidders going at as I watched the auction close, and i never saw it. Then I got customer service via online chat and the were immediately responsive…….until asked about the bid, and then I was ignored. That was it for me.

    My other beef with them is their minimum. 17.5% buyer fee…but with an $8 minimum, so if you win a 10 dollar coin, you paying an 8 dollar fee. ‘Tis their right to charge what they wish, but they rubbed me the wrong way one too many times so I use my limited funds elsewhere.

  48. high low silver says

    Face 1004: If you want to collect rolls of the ATBs don’t let anyone deter you, but I would read Hildago last comment. Everything worth a profit is a risk, because you never know what the Mint will do next. I thought the 2006 RP eagle was a one time offering in 2007 lol BOY WAS I WRONG !!

  49. Jeff says

    @Face These speculators here are gold bugs you can’t tell them anything but they will find out what they missed just will take time s mint clad will command a huge premium more then there over minted buffaloes & RP just have to wait. There all begging for a sell out. lol

  50. fmtransmitter says

    Question, sorry OT but I can’t find an answer. I won a MS 70 NGC 2011 W SE, the label says 25th Anniversary. Does that mean it was part of that particular set or does it “the label” have to say 25th Anniversary “set”, which I saw a label that said that also? Confused in SE land…

  51. fmtransmitter says

    BTW, I bought my S minted ATB’s to look at, so I have made a decision to get a nice generic double sided Whitman folder for them and fill it up, so I can look at and enjoy. I will of course be looking for a MS 70 also…:)

  52. fmtransmitter says

    No hi lo, I didn’t buy it at HSN…Have a great night!! I am going to kill you with kindness slowly…Hope it works!

  53. high low silver says

    Take it to your new coin shop friend when you receive it……He should know……I already know what the outcome will be….. sleep tight !!

  54. fmtransmitter says

    So be nice and answer please? Obviously you get a kick out of something. Anyway, that 1942 stunner proof Mint set just ended. $1876, was a good year..

  55. AkBob says

    FM: The SE holdered with it saying just 25th Anniversary is not part of the 2011 25th Anniversary Silver Eagle Set. It HAS to have the word “Set” otherwise it’s just a typical 2011 SE made in the year of the 25th Anniversary of the SE. I don’t mean to say a 2011 W MS70 is “just” a SE, it is a nice one to have and if you got it for a good price then good for you. Hope that helps clear your question up. Have a GREAT night. PS: If memory serves me right, NGC put the 25th Anniversary label on all of the SE’s in 2011..

  56. fmtransmitter says

    Ok, so who is the deep pockets that won ALL of the 30’s proof sets? Anyone on here? Same guy bought em all…Nice chunk of a retirement fund, can’t blame him or her, stepped up to the plate for sure. Just spent about 20 g’s on some proof sets…Wonder how many more that guy has, says he has several over the next few months. I hope they don’t turn out to be counterfeit. Seems unlikely but ya never know. I got some Pan American fake silver bars, boy were they good fakes. Got my money back though.

  57. fmtransmitter says

    This is a special time in US History with more wealth being transferred to the next generation through inheritance than ever in our history. Seems to come at good time, while our fore fathers were stacking up the wealth, today our economy in the dumps, I am sure it is helping much needy families.

  58. fmtransmitter says

    I “watched” ,pun intended, a guy sell a high end multi thousand dollar watch on eBay and I knew it was a fake. Sure enough I saw the negative feedback a week later stating such. Paypal only protects up to $2,000…

  59. says

    ot…my backordered Great Basin should ship tomorrow (cc was pinged friday)
    So I wonder how this years 5 oz ATB’s wll play out mintage wise?

    I went back and looked at my 2012 Denali purchases and they were at the end of February 2013….not long after the Hawaii sell out.

    So the 2013 ATB 5 oz coins will probably be on sale for a while…possibly even selling out.

    Any thoughts?

  60. high low silver says

    Sorry fm , I was trying to find out where I could purchase Dukes Mayo, and a jar of Hatfield/Mccoy Moonshine…..I say NO to your NGC label linked to the 2011 set….

  61. Scott says

    FYI,
    I’ve noticed in the past when a coin is approaching sell-out the “available for shipping” date rolls on a daily basis. This doesn’t seem to happen in other situations where the coin hasn’t approached sell-out. In other words, I expect “SOLD OUT” to appear on the Proof Buffalo in the next day or two.

  62. high low silver says

    2014 proof Buff will go ON SALE around May 2014….I’m in the Twilight zone here….If you want 2013 buff……Buy it…..

  63. Scott says

    O.K. but I don’t think I’m wrong, I’ve seen it happen many times before. Available for shipping date changes every day for a few days, then its no longer available.

  64. says

    Scott…I see what you are saying….and who knows, you could be right..but I think it’s highly unlikely.

    The regular proof buffalo has been on sale for less than 4 months…and I don’t know of any Mint product that “sold-out” with several months left in the current year. More than likely, the backordered status is due an to inventory on hand is sold out and the Mint is producing more. Why wouldn’t they?

    However, if anyone thinks the 2013 regualar proof buffalo is about to sell out, then I’d be snapping them up.

    But I will add…while I don’t think a sell-out is near…I DO think the possibility of a new low mintage could happen…

  65. says

    ot…I received my RP Buffalo from the Mint 3 weeks ago…and I love it in the OGP.

    Has anyone orered and received a graded RP Buff from GOLDMART?

    I placed an order on 8/21 for a NGC PF70 with an expected ship date of early September.

    Has anyone ordered and received their coin from Goldmart?

    Thanks!

  66. AkBob says

    I ordered one also and haven’t received it. I emailed them on 9/12 and inquired and they said the coins were at the grading company for 2 weeks and as soon as they received them they would be shipping them out on a FIFO, just like the mint. Hmmmm, that doesn’t sound to good. LOL

  67. Brad says

    Steve,

    Remember, the 2012 AGE W Unc was delcared “sold out” last year in early November. We were all caught by surprise on that one. It made sense with about two months left in the year to strike more that the Mint would do so, but instead chose not to for whatever reason.

    With so many Reverse Proof Buffalo coins to get out the door and the fact that it took 4 months to sell about 15,000 Proofs, will the Mint deem it worth the effort to bother striking 5,000 or so more? The profit margin on those coins is pretty low. The Mint may choose to just pull the plug again. In either case, we may have our answer in a few days.

  68. joe says

    Steve – I also ordered from Goldmart on the same day as you…nothing yet. I will likely call them this week sometime to get a status.

  69. Hidalgo says

    @Brad – in retrospect, I can see why the US Mint chose not to mint more 2012 AGE W unc coins. If the US Mint sold out in early November, there wouldn’t be much time to mint and sell coins during 2012. Would be better to prepare for the 2013 coins and the upcoming (at that time) minting of the RP gold buffalos.

    In 2013, there would be 4 months left between now and December 2013. That’s plenty of time to sell 5,000 or more gold buffalos.

    Just my thoughts.

  70. ClevelandRocks says

    Keep in mind “backorder” status means the third party in Indiana doesn’t have the item available to ship at that moment. That’s all.

  71. thePhelps says

    @fmtrans… “MS 70 NGC 2011 W SE, the label says 25th Anniversary” pretty sure that means the coin came from the 25th anniversary set. There were a lot of the sets broken up and sold as individual coins – when the complete set didn’t grade 70 from what I can tell.

  72. VARich says

    FM – The retailers labels are missing leading, I saw a sale on some ‘S” ASE being touted at SF mint anniversaries, ‘W’ anniversaries and so on, they’re just BU that was made at that particular mint with either a S or W next to the year with a high price.., if it not burnished with the mint mark.., who knows??? Hopefully it’s in your favor

  73. says

    Joe…I called Goldmart late Friday (an hour before closing) and the guy that answered was not any help. He just asked for my order # and said someone would call me back….no one did. Much earlier in the day on Friday I tried their “live chat” service…again, I posted a question and no one ever responded(I did this twice).
    When Goldmart sent me an email confirming they had received my check, they boasted about their “outstanding” customer service…yeah right.

  74. VARich says

    Off Topics – I love this free shipping being offered by the mint but what good is free shipping if it doesn’t ship?

    I’ve has “In-stock and Reserved” for over a week and half now on a few small orders that normally would have shipped right away.

    No evidence here but the perception on my end is that shipping is being held to defer shipment of multiple orders into one or drag it out towards the end of September. I suspect the mint has seen a consider increase in individual orders and it’s becoming costly now. Anyone else seeing slow order processing?

  75. VARich says

    @ Steve – my sentiments EXACTLY – very slow and tell you that it’ll ship today and after two more calls, it goes out a week later, that’s been my recent experience.

  76. fmtransmitter says

    I have read SEVERAL times about Goldmart’s poor CS on here. Folks have said they have chosen to pay a little extra for better CS.
    Thanks about the 25th Anniversary label. I DO NOT believe the W mint mark SE is actually FROM the set if the NGC label does not say SET on it. I emailed NGC and am awaiting a response. My goal was to obtain a coin of a mintage of 100,000 obviously. The ONLY way I know that would happen, other than a Proof or RP from 2011 is to obtain the 2011 S mint mark OR get clarification on NGC’s labeling.

  77. fmtransmitter says

    Talk about confusing, I am going to send in several coins to grade, typed them all up, and took hours doing the math on which route to take to upgrade my Membership. It can be quite confusing to say the least.

  78. stephen m says

    The Phelps and fmxmitter, My understanding is the “25th anniversary” label is for NGC’s 25th anniversary. The label that says “25th anniversary set” is for the ASE’s 25th anniversary set that was limited to 100’000 sets.

  79. fmtransmitter says

    Yes, and thank you! I think it is for the SE’s 25th Anniversary but NOT from the 100,000 set, and then the Black Retro core in 2012 was for NGC’s 25th Anniversary. It is all quite confusing but I am getting there.

  80. Wes says

    Does the Mint regularly change release schedule? I noticed three weeks ago the Product schedule showed Annual Uncirculated Dollar Coin Set to be released Sept. 24th.. I checked this morning and it now shows to be decided. Are they pushing back release dates so they don’t have to give free shipping.

  81. VABEACHBUM says

    @ Steve, Joe and other Goldmart shoppers – Here’s my one and only Goldmart story that strongly supports the issues you’re dealing with now.

    While I’m a 90% OGP collector, I wanted to acquire some graded 2013 WP Anny Sets. So, as the sets started to ship from the US Mint and the major retailers were pre-saling their NGC / PCGS Graded Sets, I place a direct order to Goldmart, who had some of the best pricing for both TPGs at that time. $40 lower than any other retailer.

    I wasn’t in a real hurry to receive these sets, but occassionally checked on the status of my orders using my Goldmart user account. At the same time, though, I was continuing to monitor sales and trends for these sets on Ebay.

    While reviewing some graded WP Set auction listings one day, I came across a user name that looked stangely familiar – goldmart_949 – who was auctioning Graded WP Anny Sets “In Hand and Available for Shipping.” Yep. Guess who?? While I had yet to hear word one about my standing order for a lower priced set – that was billed against my CC on Day 1, they were using an item I already had paid for to take advantage of what the market would bear. Needless to say, I was HOT!! Immediately placed an extremely unpleasant phone call, then followed that up with a scathing email. I have not been back since.

    For those of you waiting on your Gold Mart “Graded RP Buffalo, you might want to check their auction listings under the user name I listed above.

  82. thePhelps says

    @Wes – yes the mint does often change the schedule, and yes others have noted the TBD on the annual dollar set.

  83. Ikaika says

    @ VABEACHBUM

    Did you receive your WP set from GM? I made a purchase before from them and they delivered as promised. But you may need some patient since it may take a while for delivery.

  84. Frankie says

    Look at the top left – it’s the same COPYRIGHT symbol as GM. Plus, they are based in the same city – Carson City, NV.

    In any case, I had no problem in getting my PCGS RP buffalo – PR70 – from them.

  85. Sith says

    @Wes – No they just extended the free shipping for another month. I would imagine it has more to do with getting the silver blanks. They do not seem to be able to keep them (and other PMs) in stock.

    My reasoning on the matter is that silver ASEs bullion sales are still being allocated, so IMHO the current decrease in sales has more to do with production issues or a lack of blanks than with a decrease in demand for silver.

  86. Wes says

    @Sith Free shipping until September 30th. Have they extended it past then? If not by the time they are released free shipping may not be around. I think it may have something to do with the packaging although that is only a guess. The Uncirculated ASE are not on back order.

  87. Sith says

    @Wes – The free shipping was initially only for August, September is the extension. It may well be the packaging as they are claiming that is the issue with the WP sets, but in my defense they would they have to remove the current batch of uncirculated ASE from their capsules to get them into the folders, that is unless they have uncirculated ASE lying around for different products

  88. wdg5 says

    Surprise surprise, got a GB-D quarter handed to me as change for my coffee purchase this morning. I am surprised as these things dont percolate that fast.

  89. VARich says

    @ Wes – I would add that you may not see the Annual Unc Dollar Set until there’s a price adjustment or the pricing is corrected. Last month the set was priced at $44.95 which is $1 over what the Unc ASE goes for…, hard to fathom that the mint would let 5 $1 coins and packaging go for $1 over the Burnished.

    I didn’t believe it when I saw it and think they goof’ed in pricing it.., & caught it once it hit the Upcoming product page. Hence, this is why I don’t think you’ll see it until there’s an uptick in silver products in addition to the reasons that Sith pointed out above.

    I also think that is why we haven’t heard anything regarding the Teddie set. It will have the silver medal and they want it to be a surprise.., they just want to price it once and avoid a reprice and tick off more collectors.., but who know.

  90. Ray says

    @Steve yep, i should probably stop buying 5oz AtBs. Man they’re addictive though. Theres nothing like holding a really sweet looking 5 ounce piece of silver like (P) AtBs. I used to love the Mexican 5oz Libertad’s the most, but since I started on these AtBs, they have become my top current collectible.

    If these coin changes for Liberty Designs on dimes, quarters, and half dollars goes into effect in 2015 or 2016, I’m interested to see if they will make 5oz AtBs for the Liberty designs. Theres only one thing worse than looking at a wretched queen on a coin, our ex-presidents. Heres to the hopeful new Liberty designs of 2015 (or was it 2016)!!

  91. Ray says

    DOes anyone have a link to the mint webpage that states the 2013 uncirculated silver eagle will be available for 1 year? I looked at the mint news page for the release and it doesnt state anything about having it available for a year. I recently read that the mint also stated this for the 2013 MInt set and silver and reg proof sets. Yet I havent seen any official documents from the US Mint about this. Has anyone seen anything official stating this? Thanks all

  92. VARich says

    Ray – it was on the Annual Unc Dollar Set when it was posted on the mint’s product page on the Purchasing & Shipping tab. Available for one year or till sell out.

  93. Jon in CT says

    Off topic; I see the CCAC is meeting again this Thursday with the following agenda:
    Review and consideration of themes for the reverse of the 2015 and 2016 Native American $1 Coin, and review and discussion of themes for the Congressional Gold Medal to the First Special Service Force, collectively, in recognition of their dedicated service during World War II.

    WRONG. The first sentence should read: Review and Discuss Candidate Designs for the 2014 First Spouse Gold Coin Program.

    The CCAC discussed the themes they wanted to see depicted on the 2014 First Spouse Gold Coins back on April 19, 2013. The Mint, by now, should have developed specific design proposals for these coins that could be reviewed by CCAC now. And then, just maybe, the designs of those coins could be finalized THIS year so that they can be released on time next year.

  94. fmtransmitter says

    John in Ct: As the British Parliament says, here, here, grumble, grumble, or yea, yea, or whatever they mumble when someone says something they agree with…

  95. joe says

    I contacted Goldmart today and Maria told the orders were processed as first come-first serve, and that I was one of the later orders. She said I would have to wait another week. Interestingly, when I ordered their website said they would ship in early September. I will wait another week and then request a refund…

  96. says

    Joe…as we both ordered on 8/21, I wonder when they first starting taking orders.

    Regardless, it’s very misleading when their web-site still says “new orders” will ship in mid-September.

  97. says

    WHEN? When are we going to see the release of the FIRST SPOUSE coins for 2013?????? Sickening to have them ALL come out at the end of the year! Hard on the wallet! Gripe gripe gripe and nothing changes!

  98. fmtransmitter says

    2 for r money, we been talking about this for awhile. This is all been a plan all along. The Mint is talking to Dealers closely these days. They (Dealers) know we are strapped around the Holidays, they want to be able to get first crack at them to slab them, AND they know there many knee deep in this set wanting to complete it. Perfect recipe to force the buyers to buy from Dealers later on when they get more cash. I been saying it and I will keep saying it. THE MINT WORKS CLOSELY WITH LARGE DEALERS. All businesses work closely with large buyers, but this was supposed to be a business for US Citizens to enjoy a long tradition and hobby. It is turning into any other business, perk up your ears to the guy who says he will buy all your inventory off of you in one swoop.

  99. fmtransmitter says

    My ATB S quarters have been in stock and reserved for over a week with no shipping or tracking email.Weird, I bet all the shipping employees are taking their 4 week vacation time before the end of the year when they will lose it IMHO??..

  100. fmtransmitter says

    I know my local Postal Employee took hers recently. They all seem to be on the same vacation schedule, Government employees…Could be wrong..

  101. Blair J Tobler says

    Regarding vacations, the employees at the fulfillment center work for Pitney Bowes Goverment Services (PBGS) – they’re not government employees.

  102. says

    fm…I’ve purchased from Aydin as well….no problems. While I’ve bought a lot of the bullion ATB’s, at the current price of $141…I prefer the “P” version for $14 more. I buy the bullion version when the price difference is greater than $25 per coin.

  103. VARich says

    Here’s a good article on that ANA label – The Coin Analyst: Are the Chicago ANA Buffalo Reverse Proof Gold Coins Really That Special?

  104. Sith says

    @Steve – I saw that, APMEX shows them to be temporarily sold out at mint. I do not think they will restart White Mtn, especially with the other having a lower mintage and Rushmore coming out but who knows, but I did predict a upper limit of 35K, lets see if it holds. My GB “P” finally show itself to be in reserved and in stock so it looks like the mint is getting its blanks.

  105. matt says

    I sent my first coins ever for grading at ngc. I’m the original owner of all of them, direct from the mint including that 1970. I was hoping one of the silver eagles would of been a 70, no luck. What do you all think?

    001 2013 W REVERSE PF BUFFALO – .9999 FINE EARLY RELEASES G$50 PF 70

    002 1970 D 50C MS 64
    003 1987 S EAGLE S$1 PF 69 ULTRA CAMEO
    004 1993 P EAGLE S$1 PF 69 ULTRA CAMEO
    005 1993 P EAGLE S$1 PF 69 ULTRA CAMEO
    006 1994 P EAGLE S$1 PF 69 ULTRA CAMEO
    007 1988 S EAGLE S$1 PF 69 ULTRA CAMEO
    008 1991 S EAGLE S$1 PF 69 ULTRA CAMEO
    009 1986 S EAGLE S$1 PF 69 ULTRA CAMEO

  106. VARich says

    Well, I was wrong.., maybe I should make more predictions – and it’s at $44.95!

    Sales Open September 24 for United States Mint Annual Uncirculated Dollar Coin Set

  107. Dustyroads says

    For anyone wanting to buy a proof Buffalo from the Mint, now may be a good time, assuming that the Mint does indeed intent to produce more. It stands to reason that someone could get a nice new coin rather than possibly receiving a return.

  108. Dustyroads says

    matt~Congratulations on getting your RP Buffalo graded with that wonderful 70. I know you must be disappointed with the rest of your coins not getting perfect scores. I have noticed that the US Mint has come a long way with it’s quality control in recent years, so 69’s should not be surprising grades for your ASE’s.

  109. Brad says

    If you “download all data to date” in XLS format, you can get a sneak peak at the 9/15 sales data. It’s interesting to note that the sales for the Buffalo Proof are listed at 14,676, with availability noted as “N.” Could that mean we’ll see the status updated to “sold out” by the end of the day? Maybe, but it could just be referring to the “backorder” status though. There is also the “N” after the White Mountain and Fort McHenry 5 oz. silver coins too. I just don’t know if they referred to “backordered” products with the “N” before in past weeks or not. I do see that all those weeks that Great Basin was “backordered” it was noted with the “Y” on the sales report.

  110. VA Bob says

    Matt – Hardly seemed worth it on those ASE’s (for 69’s). The 1993 P’s should be OK. The bad thing about modern proofs (and commems) is they are made to collect, so their is little attrition. The only way to insure long term value is for the hobby to grow. The number of flippers seems to be growing, which may boost the short term, but I fear the collector side is not growing so much. Each generation that passes use physical money less and many don’t even know what is available. At least you have a nice consistant set for your enjoyment, and that’s what it’s really all about. Will you be filling the missing dates?

  111. charles says

    Wow…I’ve never seen such “chopping at the bits” hoping for a sellout of the proof buffalo. Not that I blame ya…I would too if I owned one.

    I still don’t think it is about to sell out though. Price decrease coming tomorrow…will more people order? II wouldn’t be surprised to see sales surge as many are chasing the “new low” mintage. I guess we’ll know soon.
    Good luck everyone!

  112. Sith says

    Thank you Brad….we will find out but if true the Fort McHenry would be a new low for the series. I don’t think the mint would stop production on them, but then who would have thought they would stop Hawaii

  113. Sith says

    @Brad – Both of those ATBs are simply back ordered with scheduled ship dates at the end of the month, so that would mean that the proof Buffalo is not going to be sold out.

  114. EvilFlipper says

    I did not bite on the RP Buffalo as I thought the mintage was too high. Not for flippers. But the regular proof I am watching extra close right now. I will probably bite soon. Under 15k is a very reasonable number for a flipper! Not much in the way of flipping coins this year. I will wait until after the fed reserve meetings tomorrow which could be super gold negative for the usual traders…. But really how is any of it gold negative when we’re pumping markets up with 85billion a month! If the gold market tanks this week after the meetings than I’m pretty sure the mint will call it a year For the gold buff proof.

  115. Wes says

    With over 45000 cancelled orders for the WP SAE set I can see why the mint may have wanted to except more orders. With returns I think it may end up being near 50000 by the time they are through. Really makes sense why the mint issued the 2012 S Proof in a special set last year. they could easily sell the rest of the SE coins that were cancelled in another set if they choose too.

  116. charles says

    I really don’t think what the price of gold does will have ANY influance on when the 2013 proof buffalo sells out

  117. thePhelps says

    I doubt the mint has 50,000 2013 ASE from these sets sitting around. The cancellations have been coming in all along and they have simply been waiting on packaging. It would make no sense to over produce these when they had no packaging to put them in – so I would bet they have far fewer than the number cancelled, they just never made the cancelled order…

    I’d figure a pretty low defect/return rate also because of the length of time to ship – my guess is less than 5k were left over and that would be on the high side.

  118. Erik H says

    You heard it here first, the Mt. Rushmore 5 oz “P” will have a mintage of 15K.

    It looks to me like the mint is striking batches of ATBs in 15K lots. With a release date of 11/7, I think the mint will make 15k Mt. Rushmore ATBs and be done. It’s possible that the mint could also strike the average amount sold for the first four 2013 ATBs but I’m sticking with my prediction.

  119. charles says

    Eric, 15,000 would be nice, but Mt. Rushmore will be very popular and may sell out at 25,000.
    I do agree though, that being released so late in the year, does pose the possibility of 15,000. How smart will the Mint plan for this one?

  120. VARich says

    Well Erik, if memories serves correct, you’re batting 1000 out here or close to it, so maybe you’ll be in the ball park again.

    Just looking at numismatic premiums off the grid sheet.., geez, you really have to be hardcore to collect the FS series.., the FS proof, on a per ounce basis, carries a $430 premium (PT carries a $400), and the FS Unc at $390. My hat’s off to you all for staying the course! Price drop tomorrow….

  121. thePhelps says

    I don’t think they sell 15,000 of Rushmore and stop the presses. The bullion version might sell short though – isn’t that one required to be sold only in the year the coins are released?

    I agree that Rushmore will probably sell out at 25,000 – especially with silver staying low.

  122. Ikaika says

    May I ask where this new number of 234,532 for the WP set sales are coming from? The US Mint still says 281,310.

  123. Val says

    If there have been 45,000 WP cancellations, is it possible that some sets will be made available for sale in the Mint stores? What do you think?

  124. matt says

    VA Bob,

    I have one of every proof but two. My kids were born those years and did have the money at the time. I’ll get them some day soon…

    VA Bob says:

    September 17, 2013 at 12:56 pm
    Matt – Hardly seemed worth it on those ASE’s (for 69′s). The 1993 P’s should be OK. The bad thing about modern proofs (and commons) is they are made to collect, so there is little attrition. The only way to insure long term value is for the hobby to grow. The number of flippers seems to be growing, which may boost the short term, but I fear the collector side is not growing so much. Each generation that passes use physical money less and many don’t even know what is available. At least you have a nice consistent set for your enjoyment, and that’s what it’s really all about. Will you be filling the missing dates?

    matt says:

    September 17, 2013 at 12:08 pm

    I sent my first coins ever for grading at ngc. I’m the original owner of all of them, direct from the mint including that 1970. I was hoping one of the silver eagles would of been a 70, no luck. What do you all think?

    001 2013 W REVERSE PF BUFFALO – .9999 FINE EARLY RELEASES G$50 PF 70

    002 1970 D 50C MS 64
    003 1987 S EAGLE S$1 PF 69 ULTRA CAMEO
    004 1993 P EAGLE S$1 PF 69 ULTRA CAMEO
    005 1993 P EAGLE S$1 PF 69 ULTRA CAMEO
    006 1994 P EAGLE S$1 PF 69 ULTRA CAMEO
    007 1988 S EAGLE S$1 PF 69 ULTRA CAMEO
    008 1991 S EAGLE S$1 PF 69 ULTRA CAMEO
    009 1986 S EAGLE S$1 PF 69 ULTRA CAMEO

  125. Sith says

    @Val – I don’t think so, as they would have to be put on the market after the sales windows. Considering the delay I doubt these coins even exist to be resold, these are cancellations not returns, and I doubt the mint would allow them to be canceled after they have been minted.

  126. VA Bob says

    Two to pick up Matt isn’t too bad. I started pick these up in 92. but I later went back and got the 86-91.

  127. DNA says

    Perry’s Victory S-roll (WD5) now has a delayed ship date.
    Does this mean it will be the first 2013-S BU Quarter product option to sell out?

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