First Look at 2014 Proof Platinum Eagle Design

While visiting the West Point Mint, I was able to get an early look at the design for the upcoming 2014 Proof Platinum Eagle.

The coin will represent the final release within the six issue design series highlighting the core concepts of American democracy as found in the Preamble to the Constitution. The previous releases of the series have featured the concepts To Form a More Perfect Union (2009), To Establish Justice (2010), To Insure Domestic Tranquility (2011), To Provide for the Common Defence (2012), and To Promote the General Welfare (2013).

The design for the final release will represent the concept To Secure the Blessings of Liberty to Ourselves and our Posterity. Although the coins are not yet in production, the West Point Mint had coin dies on hand which I was able to view. The Mint is still developing the final laser frosting which will be used in production.

2014 Proof Platinum Eagle Coin Dies

The selected reverse design features a depiction of Young Liberty carrying the torch of freedom high. Her youth symbolizes the hope and promise of the new America. The gentle landscape symbolizes harmony, pleasure, and sociability, blessings that flow from a government the ensures that freedom passes from one generation to the next.

Like all previous issues of the series, the reverse design was inspired by a narrative prepared by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court for the principle represented. For past releases, the narrative has been included on the display folder.

The reverse design incorporates a bald eagle privy mark from an original “coin punch” identified at the Philadelphia Mint. All American Platinum Eagle coins prior to the “Preamble” series had featured eagles. The use of the privy  mark allows the exploration of new design concepts while preserving the brand identity of the American Eagle coins.

The design for the upcoming coin was selected from an initial field of twelve design candidates which were reviewed by the Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee (CCAC) and Commission of Fine Arts (CFA) in late 2013. Coverage of their reviews can be found here and here.

AEP_R_11

The CCAC had recommended the selected design, which they had found to be well executed and emblematically suited to the theme of “Securing the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity.” Members felt that the design would also match well with the previous five issues of the design series.

plant

The CFA had recommended an alternate design showing the hands of Liberty planting a sprouting acorn into fertile soil as a symbol of securing the blessings of Liberty. Members had found this to be the most concise and legible design, commenting favorably on the poetic symbolism of the sapling and the simple symmetrical clarity of the composition.

Today on Coin Update: Restoring the JFK Portrait for the 50th Anniversary Kennedy Half Dollars

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Comments

  1. Sith says

    @fmtransmitter – Thank you for your post IMHO unlike this coin, the designs for the 2015 NP quarters are uninspiring at best. We have a house, 3 birds, a sword (surrender), and a road.

  2. Hidalgo says

    This is a really awesome design! It is as awesome as the To Form a More Perfect Union (2009) design. Hats off to the CCAC for making some really great design choices!

  3. Boz says

    Cultivating a hemp plant…that’s more inspiring than repairing a pothole on the beltway.

  4. ABC says

    @Boz,
    The eagle privy mark is in front of the “U” in “United States of America” and above the “$100”. Just click on the picture and enlarge it.

  5. fmtransmitter says

    Sith says
    JULY 29, 2014 AT 5:56 PM

    @fmtransmitter – Thank you for your post IMHO unlike this coin, the designs for the 2015 NP quarters are uninspiring at best. We have a house, 3 birds, a sword (surrender), and a road.

    Agree…I don’t like the young Liberty girl, shouldn’t she look like a man or like you can’t tell which gender?

  6. Clark says

    Wow, if the coins look like the die, this is one beautiful coin. It looks better on metal than in the sketch. Thanks for the photos.

  7. ABC says

    I just noticed, on the reverse die, they decided to omit the road that runs through the hills in the original sketch. Maybe it was too reminiscent of Obama’s presidential campaign logo?

  8. Louis says

    I like the idea of a young woman on a coin as that almost never happens. And I appreciate the pics, but the images are a little blurred (unless that is m y eyes!) and I would really need to see the coin in person or in a clearer pic to say if I like it. Either way I know I can’t afford it. Also, I still don’t quite get the concept of either side.

    I’d much prefer the freedom girl designs done by Heidi Wastweet, who has designed thousands of coins and medals since the 80’s, and just began her second term on the CCAC. Her silver rounds sell for a strong premium because the art is very good.

  9. Louis says

    Except that she is more than likely not allowed to design a coin or medal for the USM while serving on the CCAC. Major conflict of interest.

  10. VA Bob says

    Nice coin. Using the young girl (Little Miss Liberty?) was a bold choice and somehow works very well here. Never got a platinum coin, I just never could see using my limited coin funds to hop on that train. It didn’t help that the first one of this platinum democracy sub-series was such a pandering PC design. Others have been attractive enough though.

  11. Boz says

    Got the eagle finally although it just looks like someboddy dripped jelly from a peanutbutter sandwich. Maybe just my eyes aren’t so good.

    The cute girl is really a nice idea. Wonder if a real person served as model? Always fascinating to find out who the designers really used. Reminds of the school marm who reportedly showed up on the Morgan dollars.

    It does put the kid next door as the face of what the country stands for, which is a nice touch.

  12. Louis says

    My clad JFK’s just shipped!! That’s what I am talking about! Now I can hop on a plane and hand carry them to PCGS.

  13. Boz says

    Mmm, $400 plane ticket, $200 hotel, all the grading fees, and still a clad half dollar that will soon be selling on Coin Vault as a loss leader for $24.95. Enjoy your trip.

  14. longarm says

    The mint needs to come out with fractional proof platinum coins again, not everyone can afford the 1 oz’er.

  15. Pittsburgh P says

    I knew you were joking Louis 😉
    I really hope Boz was being sarcastic but you never know…

    I’m on the fence on this coin… Nice design but the young girl seems really young imo. Have to see it in person.

  16. Louis says

    I agree with Pittsburgh and longarm.

    I am really just eager to see what those clad JFK sets look like. They are for the true collector, as we have said til we are blue in the face!

  17. MarkInFlorida says

    Wasn’t this platinum on the calendar for August (or July) but got knocked back to TBD?

  18. gary says

    This was my favorite design choice from the original batch of proposals. It is very beautiful in it’s allegory and serene simplicity. (Glad to see the winding road removed from original drawing.) This is certainly one of those design sketches that will look even more outstanding as a struck coin!

  19. Jon in CT says

    MarkInFlorida wrote on July 30, 2014 at 12:49 AM:

    Wasn’t this platinum on the calendar for August (or July) but got knocked back to TBD?

    You are correct — this coin was on the schedule for a July issue, originally. But last March the Mint got a wild hair up its butt and abruptly decided there was a huge unmet demand for the bullion version and suddenly began banging those platinum coins out, instead.

  20. Sith says

    @Hidalgo – I guess I have a hard time expressing myself I like this coin, and as far as the 2015 ATB designs I’m not the only one who feels that they are the worst designs so far, if disliking mediocre designs is being a cynic, then what do you call people who don’t like the 2015 U.S. Marshals Service Commemorative 🙂

  21. Pittsburgh P says

    @Sith I’m with you about the 2015 AtB designs but will still get the silver proof set… Just don’t know about the pucks. I like the US Marshals Service commem at least the gold & silver offerings. Am I alone here?

  22. GoldFishin says

    OT – Kennedy 2 coin clad set shipped. Order time 12:10 7-24.

    @Sith and Pitt P. – I will put my 2 cents in and say I agree the ATB designs for 2015 are probably the most mediocre since the program began. However, sometimes they look a little better once they are in the form of a coin. I didn’t like this years Shenandoah until I received it from the Mint and I liked it a lot better once I had it in hand. Normally, little people on a coin design just don’t do it for me. I tend to dislike the Great Sand Dunes for the same reason, but the design on the proof quarters really looks nice with the contrasting fields. I don’t think it will look nearly as good on the 5 oz unc. version because of lack of contrast.

  23. says

    Let’s start of by saying that I am not a 5 oz ATB buyer. That being said I Will be buying some of the 5 oz’s that has the Turkey on it. I have a LOT of Turkey hunting friends. These design had been dissed before so I was Surprised that it will now be included. That design just cost be some bucks…

    @ Brad, we got what we wanted on the Gold fix…

  24. VABEACHBUM says

    @ Sith – “what do you call people who don’t like the 2015 U.S. Marshals Service Commemorative?” My first guess would be FELONS!!

    @ P.P. – I’m definitely in for the Gold and Silver Marshall Coins. I’m on the fence for the halves, but only because those designs are so very busy for a half-dollar field. I might change my mind next year as pictures of actual product become available.

    @ Louis – I took delivery of my remaining BHoF UNC halves on Saturday, and if these UNC Kennedy sets have that same brilliant, well-struck UNC finish (almost PL), they definitely will be keepers.

  25. VABEACHBUM says

    FYI – Michael has the latest sales report posted to CoinUpdate. Kennedy 2-coin Set accummulated 84.6K units of sales in 3+ days. It will be interesting to see how these sales trend in the coming weeks, and to see just how long it takes the Mint to strike and issue all of these additional sets, while also trying to support pre-production for the 4-coin sets.

  26. says

    @Pittsburgh P, Going Big on the Silver Marshal and Some of the Gold Marshal. No interest on the Clad. The Marshal Gold Eagle needs to be on a bigger canvas. A Lot of detail on a quarter oz coin but I will be there. No interest on the March of Dime coin…

  27. Jon in CT says

    So here is my understanding of the 2014 American Eagle Platinum 1 oz coins. The bullion version carries a completely different reverse (“Soaring Eagle”) from that of the numismatic proof version (“Constitution Preamble Symbol”), even though both are dated 2104. Is my understanding correct?

  28. Blair J Tobler says

    Yes Jon you are correct. For the platinum, the bullion has always had the same reverse, while the numismatic versions have the changing design

  29. Pittsburgh P says

    VABEACHBUM & Cag I knew I couldn’t be the only one 🙂 Felons lol!

    Agreed on the clad although I may pick up 1 or 2 just to have the set. Cag like you I wish the gold design was on a larger canvas but like the western theme of the silver also…

    My BHoF silver unc’s are on the way & a few clads- Hope they look as good as your beachbum… Only 1 more shipment of silver proofs & uncs left. Can’t believe the mint got on it so quick 😉

    Undecided on the March of Dimes-I want to get at least one but we will see. Maybe I’ll just send them a donation instead…

  30. longarm says

    Looking at my past orders I just realized that the Kennedy gold will be my 50th order from the US Mint.

  31. Jon in CT says

    Blair J Tobler wrote on July 30, 2014 at 10:44 AM:

    Yes Jon you are correct. For the platinum, the bullion has always had the same reverse, while the numismatic versions have the changing design

    Actually, the platinum bullion coins have always had the same reverse as the numismatic versions until now. Production of the platinum bullion was suspended after 2008 until early this year and the numismatic version began its series of Constitution preamble reverses in 2009.

    I believe there is no precedent where a bullion coin has had a completely different reverse than its numismatic counterpart.

  32. Jon in CT says

    Off Topic. Here is the latest status for the Mint’s new OMS implementation as of 07/29/2014 according to https://itdashboard.gov/investment?buscid=1269:

    Accomplishments: July 2014:The OMS-II team continues to perform system integration testing, quality assurance testing, and user acceptance testing. Testing of the OMS-II system is expected to end by August 8th, 2014. DRAFT SOP’s (standard operating procedures) are being reviewed by US Mint management.US Mint has identified diverse training audience. Training dates will vary by program area and will continue after the go live date.Scope issues are within the parameters of this project. All costs are within expected parameters.

    It looks like “Full Speed Ahead” for a Go Live sometime before October.

  33. Blair J Tobler says

    Jon – the first year (1997) both the bullion and numismatic shared the soaring eagle reverse. In 1998, the bullion continued with the soaring eagle reverse while the numismatics began the “Vistas of Liberty” series which ran through 2003. There were a couple of other designs in 2004 and 2005, and then 2006 through 2008 featrured designs honoring the three branches of the government. All the while, any bullions that were issued featured the soaring eagle reverse. They did NOT always have the same reverse as the numismatic versions.

  34. says

    Regarding the JFK gold price, again, why the $250+ premium? What is it for? Does it go to support the stellar business model at the Mint? The “big boys” don’t get these premiums, just us lowly collectors and flippers.

  35. fmtransmitter says

    The US Mint is a business, like any other, and relies on ZERO taxpayer dollars so they have to pay for everything somehow…

  36. fmtransmitter says

    It does make me want to just buy a 1 oz Buffalo or 1OZ bar for nearly same price though..lol

  37. fmtransmitter says

    I am on sidelines with gold, those of you who are regulars know I don’t collect gold. That being said, if I ever get the time, I would like to go to one of the major shows and look at examples in hand if I am drop that many benjamins…

  38. says

    If the Mint is a business just like any other and this somehow justifies the huge premium to a select few then why are they not required to charge and pay sales tax?

  39. says

    @2cent, that is All we need. Someone on a coin blog, Advocating that we pay Sales Tax..
    Whatever you pay, you pay. No one is requiring you to Buy from the Mint. If you want to buy something from the Big Boys go ahead. The premium is there. Deal with it…Geezzzzz…

  40. Pittsburgh P says

    2cents how do you know “the big boys don’t get these premiums” do you know what they pay? I thought everyone had to go through the same channels for the JFK gold thus the household limit. Do you know something I don’t?

  41. Jon in CT says

    Blair J Tobler, thanks for correcting my misunderstandings about past platinum bullion coin designs.

  42. Pittsburgh P says

    Cag I think he was saying the big boys get a discount like for the bullion products that they buy in bulk. Could be wrong – I missed where he wants us to pay sales tax too lol had to go back and reread. Good point

  43. Blair J Tobler says

    No problem Jon – that’s why I love this blog – we all learn from each other!

  44. says

    I’m not advocating we pay sales tax at all, please noooo! But, I tried that with Amazon and some other businesses to no avail. I just don’t want Darell Issa coming to me and saying, Mr. 2cents we have looked over your orders at the Mint and noticed you never paid sales tax for the last 50+plus years, please remit a check for $35k!

    PP, how I know the big boys don’t pay our premiums is that I can buy ASE’s from them at $2 over spot. Now what did they pay for them? That is a good question and I think we should know the answer, maybe through a special section on the Mint site and they could keep it updated per market prices?

  45. says

    @2cents, here is what the Bulk Purchasers pay for AGE’s Bullion , Spot +3% 1 oz, +5% 1/2, +7% 1/4 and 9% for 1/10 oz
    On the ASE Bullion the Mint sells $2 above spot.
    Platinum they sell 4% above spot.
    According to the Mints web site the Approved Purchasers get the following:
    Numismatic Bulk Purchase Program (subject to product availability)

    Under the current terms and conditions of this program, a five percent discount is applied to all purchases of $5,000.00 or more of qualifying coins and products. Additionally, a shipping and handling charge of one percent of domestic orders and two percent for international orders will be assessed on each order processed.

    First Spouse Gold Coins
    United States Mint Proof Set®
    United States Mint Silver Proof Set™
    United States Mint Uncirculated Coin Set®
    American Eagle Gold and Silver Proof and Uncirculated Coins
    American Buffalo Gold Proof Coin
    United States Mint Proof Set®
    United States Mint Silver Proof Set®
    United States Mint Uncirculated Set®
    United States Mint America the Beautiful Quarters Proof Set™
    United States Mint America the Beautiful Quarters Silver Proof Set™

    To purchase numismatic products through the Numismatic Bulk Purchase Program, an applicant must attest to the fact that it is one of the following:

    a licensed full-time “coin dealer” (any state-licensed firm or company engaged in the commercial sale of coins via storefront, coin shows or online)
    a licensed business involved in the precious metals or numismatic coin industry
    a licensed retailer, bank, credit union or other financial institution willing to expand its business into the numismatic coin industry

    All applicants for the Numismatic Bulk Purchase Program must meet the qualifying criteria and complete and sign a Bulk Purchase Agreement Form and a Bulk Purchase Registration Form. Additionally, all applicants must submit a copy of their current business license or state resale certificate. The United States Mint will review applications and notify applicants of acceptance or rejection within 30 days of receipt of their application.

  46. Louis says

    Our mint is actually run less like business than other world mints, which charge higher premiums and give dealers a major break on everything. Our mint uses profits so that it can be self-sustaining and anything on top of that is sent back to the Treasury to reduce the debt. If the JFK gold were being issued by another mint it would cost two grand or so.

  47. Pittsburgh P says

    2cents I know what they pay for bullion ASEs but like I said earlier they buy in bulk… You or I could get those prices also if you go to the bulk purchases page on the website & contact them they’ll tell you if one could afford it. For commems and special offerings such as this even with no mintage limit there is no bulk discount. That is why there is a household limit… I asked this question to the CSR at the mint for the BHoF release(I know the info they give always changes) & a dealer freind of mine asked to buy bulk of the clad JFK and they said NO – limit of 5 for everyone…
    That’s why I wondered if you knew somthin I didn’t…

  48. Pittsburgh P says

    Thanks cag so I guess you or I couldn’t get the discount-my mistake… I do remember reading that noe.

  49. says

    As far as the Gold Kennedy having a high premium. Currently the Mint has 256 line items of Sales. Other than some $250 and $500 rolls Most items have a higher premium than the Gold Kennedy Either as a premium to PM or as a premium to Face. The mark up on the Gold Kennedy is “relatively” cheap vs. other items the Mint sells Direct.

  50. says

    @ cagcrisp, Thanks for the plethora of information regarding the big boys/Mint relationships. Now we know how much we are over paying or supporting the business we buy from. I’m still in for 1 JFK gold, just wanted to better understand the seemingly giant premium over market price.

    Thanks to all!

  51. simon says

    Louis : it would cost two grand or so

    I’ve made this point on several posts in the past. Criticism of our Mint is unwarranted.
    The 5 Oz silver stampings from Perth, RM, RCM, etc. are priced to steal, and are not much in demand among collectors. Typical 1/4 Oz ( 8 gm ) gold coins are usually in the 800 – 1200 USD range depending on purity and mint.

  52. Clark says

    I have criticized our mint when warranted for poor quality, inconsistent sales policies, etc., however, I also was willingly robbed by the British Royal Mint years ago and now appreciate the US Mint’s relatively good pricing practices. Years ago, I found many Royal Mint products intriguing and even subscribed to a silver WWI anniversary series that was very well done. Foolishly, I purchased a few gold coins at almost 2x spot. All were beautiful coins, but if I ever tried selling them, which I won’t, I’d be lucky to get 70% of what I paid. Live and learn.

  53. fmtransmitter says

    sorry it makes want to buy a 1 ounce bullion gold. I have seen that image so many times. Also, I think when I forst started collecting I got some Gold Plated JFK halves…It just doesn’t have the WOW factor for me imho…

  54. fmtransmitter says

    @Clark, I enjoy your comments. You are fair. You critisice AND compliment when warranted…That is how it should be…

  55. Tinto says

    @cagcrisp

    Thanks for the Mint’s bulk buyer info.

    No mention of the proof Platinum eagles tho.

  56. longarm says

    Years ago paying premiums really bothered me, like when silver was $8 an oz and a 100 eagles cost me $1100. But now I I want what I want and I’ll pay whatever it takes, but this gold Kennedy means I won’t get the 1 oz proof gold eagle.

  57. Clark says

    Thanks, fm. I enjoy the balance your opinions bring this forum. There truly is a wealth of experience among folks who take time to contribute here. We’re a pretty cautious and fiscally conservative bunch. Anytime I’ve seen someone, including me, reach out for guidance, people are usually helpful and quick to respond with a range of diverse comments that lead to informed decisions. And in this hobby, information is almost as important as currency.

  58. VABEACHBUM says

    WRT the pricing structure for the Mint’s precious metal numismatic products, the first two version of their PM Pricing Grid had included a brief explanation of their pricing considerations.

    a) 75% of product pricing is specific to the cost of the metal content. E.g, if gold were $1200 / ounce, a 1 oz PR Buffalo would be priced at $1600. Their current chart shows $1590.

    b) 15% of product pricing is specific to costs associated with product development, manufacturing costs (dies, equipment maintenance & repair, labor), QA/QC, equipment depreciation and recapitalization, packaging, marketing, etc.

    c) 10% of product pricing is specific to profit, which the Mint uses to support their self-sustaining enterprise and, as Louis has indicated on many occassions prior to this one, to pay back into the US Treasury towards the reduction of the national debt.

    Is a 10% profit on a numismatic quality PM struck by the US Mint outrageous? All depends on the perspective, I guess. After all, I do not hear anyone complaining about the 150% profit on those American Eagle dress shirts that are manufactured in Honduras. Especially American Eagle Outfitters!

  59. Jon in CT says

    VABEACHBUM wrote on July 30, 2014 at 3:45 PM:

    WRT the pricing structure for the Mint’s precious metal numismatic products, the first two version of their PM Pricing Grid had included a brief explanation of their pricing considerations.

    a) 75% of product pricing is specific to the cost of the metal content. E.g, if gold were $1200 / ounce, a 1 oz PR Buffalo would be priced at $1600. Their current chart shows $1590.

    b) 15% of product pricing is specific to costs associated with product development, manufacturing costs (dies, equipment maintenance & repair, labor), QA/QC, equipment depreciation and recapitalization, packaging, marketing, etc.

    c) 10% of product pricing is specific to profit, which the Mint uses to support their self-sustaining enterprise and, as Louis has indicated on many occassions prior to this one, to pay back into the US Treasury towards the reduction of the national debt.

    Is a 10% profit on a numismatic quality PM struck by the US Mint outrageous? …

    And then the Mint decided all those previous rationales for its gold and platinum coin premiums were completely unnecessary and, on February 27, 2013, it arbitrarily jacked up the premiums on all gold and platinum numismatic products without discussion or bothering to justify anything.

    https://federalregister.gov/a/2013-03633

  60. Erik H says

    I’ve said this before, for those complaining about over priced mint coins the gold coins have the lowest margins of any coin in relation to their metal value. Also as the price of gold goes up the margin gets smaller based on the mint’s grid (until they revise it). Other mints charge way too much for their gold offerings.

    How many people on this blog paid 900% mark up on the Kennedy clad set then groan over a 26% mark up on the gold Kennedy?

  61. Louis says

    @VAB- Well said as always.
    Did you get the new RCM brochure?
    There is just 1 must have for me- the new bald eagle proof. I was surprised they issued the proof before the BU version this time. When it comes to maple leaves, I have seen enough, but eagles are different for me anyway.
    The lotus Lunar sheep/goat is also nice but I will wait and see what Gatewest charges next week.
    Curious also what you think of the new double sovereign from the RM, which costs almost as much as the Kennedy with 50% more gold, but 1300 mintage, and the first BU gold sovereign makes it interesting for those with deep enough wallets.

  62. fmtransmitter says

    Erik H says

    July 30, 2014 at 5:33 pm

    I’ve said this before, for those complaining about over priced mint coins the gold coins have the lowest margins of any coin in relation to their metal value.
    Not true, The ATB 5 ouncers…??

  63. fmtransmitter says

    You meant the Mint mark up, ok, I had reversed. The 5 ouncers have the best deal going for the end buyer by far..

  64. VABEACHBUM says

    @ Jon – From the link you provided – “Summary: The United States Mint is announcing a revised pricing grid for 2013 gold and platinum products.” Just because they do not offer justification and discussion to your satisfaction does not mean that it does not exist. For example, they consolidated platinum and commemorative grids into this new, single grid. They didn’t need to tell me that. I thought that was intuitively obvious. And, as it is a REVISED grid, it is clear that at least one previous grid had been in place. We know there had been two previous grids. As for ‘jacking up premiums’ my previous example demonstrates that the “metal content represents 75% of product pricing” remains in tact within this new grid.

    The problem with the Mint’s grid, but an advantage to us consumers, is the fact that the grid is based on a single point of reference (approx. $1175/oz for gold) and uses a constant slope line for product price adjustments. Based on their very own formula, that same 1 oz PR Buffalo should cost $1733 when gold is $1300 an ounce, or $1867 when gold is at $1400, yet the $50 per $50 trend line only increases the product prices to $1690 and $1790 respectively. The higher the spot price of gold goes, the greater this differential – and our perceived advantage becomes. Meanwhile, the Mint’s direct costs, indirect costs and profit (25% and calculated at the reference point) are FIXED, remaining constant and unaffected by metal costs, and supporting the use of the constant slope price adjustments tied only to changes in PM spot pricing.

  65. VABEACHBUM says

    @ Louis – received the catalog yesterday, and the advanced notice email today. Like you, the Bald Eagle was the first coin to catch my eye. When I saw the listing, I was concerned that I already had missed the bullion coins. Thanks for covering that. I also saw the start of their next 4-coin wildlife set, White Tail Deer. I liked the eagle and the bison, but I may have to wait and see how this set plays out. WRT the RM offerings, I saw the Double Sovereign, and gave it some consideration, but I didn’t have enough info about declaring customs and the additional costs associated with taking delivery. I have no doubt that they will go quickly, with retailers and distributors tacking on some hefty “opportunity costs” for those not lucky enough to take delivery from the RM.

  66. VA Bob says

    One other thing to consider about the US Mint is the tremendous “earnings” it makes on minting circulating coins for the Fed. Australian, Canadian, UK mints come no where close to that cash cow. With the billions of coins the US Mint strikes each year, which are supposed to last 30 years in circulation, just shows peoples aversion to spending loose change or favoring paper bills/CC’s. The pocket change for the most part “disappears” into change jars, piggy banks, or, in some cases, tossed on to the ground. It’s not circulating as it should that’s for sure, but it doe keep the mint humming along, and collector coins cheaper, for the most part, than the other world mints.

  67. Jon in CT says

    I have no idea what VABEACHBUM is babbling about now, but the facts are very simple. On February 26, 2013 the Mint charged, on average, a $285 premium over spot for a one ounce proof gold Buffalo. On the next day, February 27, 2013, the Mint jacked up that average premium over spot for a one ounce proof gold Buffalo by $80 to $365.

  68. Erik H says

    fmtransmitter, using today’s spot price for silver and the mint’s subscription price for the 5 oz ATB the markup is currently about 30%.

    I do agree with you the ATB 5 oz is a great deal considering their affordability and low mintage!

  69. VABEACHBUM says

    @ Jon- No worries. In the future, I’ll be sure to type more slowly, so that any of these relatively simple analysis might be easier for you to understand.

    The magical, instant increase in the premium, albeit 05.3% of the previous product pricing, is tied directly to the fact that Grids #1 and #2 were built upon a reference point where the spot price of gold was $725 per fine troy ounce, as documented on page 3 of the US Mint pricing grid dated 12 JAN 2009. Again, as I indicated above, your unjustified, unexplained grid was consolidated, then reconstructed using a reference where gold spots at approximately $1175 / FTO; a price that, while closer, still is not reflective of current market prices.

    While I’m not happy about higher prices, the revised product pricing within the current grid was long over due. Oh, and I found the $80.00.

  70. Jon in CT says

    VABEACHBUM wrote on July 30, 2014 at 10:01 PM:

    @ Jon- No worries. In the future, I’ll be sure to type more slowly, so that any of these relatively simple analysis might be easier for you to understand.

    The magical, instant increase in the premium, albeit 05.3% of the previous product pricing, …

    You’re still missing a major clue. The Mint’s average premium charged for any gold product doesn’t depend in any way on the tier price of gold. It is fixed. For example, the average premium for the 1 oz gold proof Buffalo used to be $285 but was raised last year to $365, a 28% increase in the premium. And that’s regardless (i.e. independent) of what the tier price of gold happens to be. For another example, the average premium for the 1 oz gold proof Eagle used to be $260 but was raised last year to $335, a 29% increase in the premium. And, again, that’s regardless of what the tier price of gold happens to be.

  71. VABEACHBUM says

    @ Jon – and yet you seem to be short a clue, as well. I have said all along that the “directs, indirects and profit,” what you casually refer to as “premium,” are fixed. Per my previous post, above; you know, the one that was difficult for you to follow:

    “… the Mint’s direct costs, indirect costs and profit (25% and calculated at the reference point) are FIXED, remaining constant and unaffected by metal costs, and supporting the use of the constant slope price adjustments tied only to changes in PM spot pricing.”

    Where I do have a major clue is understanding that even a well established manufacturing process will have variations and will see those fixed costs change from year to year; usually trending upwards to support increases in their labor and sustainment, restoration and maintenance costs. What you refuse to understand is that the Mint’s fixed cost valuation has not been adjusted since the creation of the JAN 2009 Grid that was based upon 2008 manufacturing cost data and spot gold at $725 / FTO. Four years of cost data later, ’09 – ’12, the Mint was better prepared to revaluate the fixed costs that have been incorporated into the current grid of FEB 2013.

    Finally, every manufacturing entity in the world is going to capture their actual fixed costs and is going to pass them on to their consumers, regardless of how that fixed-cost increase might present when compared to a percentage of the previously known fixed costs (your 28% or even 100%). The manufacturing entities care only about how the increases in actuals impact upon the sales price to the consumer. As of FEB 2013, most of the 1 oz gold products have received, on average, the single base-line price increase of $80, or 5.3% of the previous base-line price after a 4 year sales period. When considering that the cumulative rate of inflation for that same 4-year period is approximately 7%, the Mint appears to be managing their operating costs effectively and within the bounds of the current economy.

    You can wail and moan about the “unjustified” price increase all you want. Even with the new pricing within the revised grid, the US Mint continues to offer the very best value for precious metal numismatic products the world over.

  72. Steve says

    I’m going to start making low ball offers to these flippers who think their pre sale coins are worth $2,000 while they are sweating bullets when their cc bills are due. Remember the idiots buying ar15s for $2,000 and then tried to get their money back?

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