Jacqueline Kennedy First Spouse Gold Coin Sales Reach 10,894

jkThe United States Mint has released the opening day sales figures for the 2015 Jacqueline Kennedy First Spouse Gold Coin. Across both proof and uncirculated versions, sales have reached 10,894 pieces.

The specific breakdown of sales was 7,102 proof coins and 3,792 uncirculated coins.

The half ounce gold coins carry a maximum mintage of 30,000 pieces across both versions. This is triple the 10,000 maximum mintage established for other 2015-dated releases of the First Spouse Gold Coin series.

The first release of the series for this year featuring Bess Truman had first reported sales of 1,913 pieces across proof and uncirculated versions. This was figure comes from the regular weekly sales report, so it covers more than just the opening day. Current sales for the coin have reached 3,165 as of the most recent sales report.

The second release for this year featuring Mamie Eisenhower had first reported sales of 1,622 pieces across proof and uncirculated versions. Current sales for the coin have reached 3,234 pieces.

The opening day figures for the Jacqueline Kennedy First Spouse Gold Coin are far above the sales levels for recent releases of the series. However, the figures still pale in comparison to the initial releases of the series from 2007. The first two coins featuring Martha Washington and Abigail Adams each sold out of the entire maximum mintages of 40,000 coins each on the opening day of sales. This was followed by another first day sell out for the third coin featuring Thomas Jefferson’s Liberty, before the popularity of the series fizzled.

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Comments

  1. cagcrisp says

    65% Proofs. I wonder how many MORE uncirculated were Sold because the Proofs were BO’d and they couldn’t get what they Originally wanted (Proof) ?

    65% Proof would still be the Highest percentage of all the FS series…

  2. Zaz says

    There didn’t seem to be that many one- off orders, didn’t cag say there was only about 3,000 orders on the first day? So the bulk of first day sales went to the Bulk Purchase Program?

  3. Ends in Error says

    Nice bloated numbers. I see no value in these above Bullion value after the dust settles.

    Now where is the explanation for back order on the Proofs, before ordering even opened up at noon.

    What sort of BS will await Mint Customers on June 30 when the Coin & Chronicles Sets go on sale?

    I remember Congress running a few Dog & Pony Shows over things that were hardly their business – Major League Baseball comes to mind. I think they need to grill the US Mint and their shipping contractor.

  4. KEITHSTER says

    Also not happy with this release went to order but seen the backorder on the proof! So I ordered the Unc. which did not show the backorder at any time during the order. But does now what the H is up with that way to go mint? After the last two with the count down and then the redo so those can sit for years I should have known them mint trix !!! So am thinking CANCEL man not feeling lucky even by getting screwed by the Jackie O ! Oh Well Good Luck To The Rest:>:>:>:>:>

  5. says

    Blown away by these numbers. I expected maybe 5,000 after the relative quiet yesterday. Usually on big release days there are far more people posting order numbers and comments.

    Looks like the decision to expand the maximum mintage was a prudent decision by the Mint.

    Given the uproar about the backorder status problem, I am expecting some sort of response from the Mint in the next day or two, and I am sure Michael and Louis will get us the scoop.

  6. Ikaika says

    These numbers suggest that the 30K max mintage will not be reached IMHO.

    I hope the great detectives in this blog will report the real reason for Backordered status of the proofs yesterday.

  7. Ends in Error says

    This would seem to be a game to keep the order numbers down. How would it look if the Big Dealers controlled 99% of the Proof Mintage and they were all PCGS First Strikes and 99% PF70? Word is already out that Dealers get 70 on ALL their coins.

    If enough small time buyers get discouraged and cancel orders , total control shifts to the Dealers.

    I’m starting to see a coverup on the first day ( make that first second) back order status on the Proof Coins.

  8. Joe #2 says

    Just cancel like i did.. If enough people do so, MAYBE someone will get the message. But if you feed ( pay ) into this BS, Things will be business as usual… It’s like saying, Vote for Trump ( Which i am ) Because people HATE the truth..

  9. smalltimecollector says

    To throw a little fly in the ointment:

    What if all the coins minted have an obvious error or significant mar?
    ” ” packaging ” ” ?
    What if the mint is totalling all orders and applying some sort of distribution equation using a ratio.

    I cannot see the mint selling exclusively to re-sellers, nor can I see that the mint would preclude sales to the general public.

    The Bulk Purchaser Agreement Paragraph 11 reads, in part:

    “The United States Mint reserves the right to limit quantities and may discontinue accepting
    orders for any product at any time. The United States Mint reserves the right to accept or reject
    orders in any combination or option(s) it determines to be in its best interest. In the event a particular product is sold out, the United States Mint reserves the right to either process partial orders and make refunds, or return orders in their entirety “.

  10. gary says

    Can’t afford the Jackie proof.
    The one coin would take up my entire budget for all 5 of the 2015 ATB P-Mint 5 oz. silvers.

  11. Alex in MA says

    Why everybody is so stressed, because from reading this blog I see that most people here are not sending their coins for grading, they are not First Strike and/or Early Release aficionados. We’ll get our coins on September 1 plus shipping time or earlier.

  12. Scott says

    The best thing about this coin is it will probably lower the demand for Proof Gold Buffalo and Proof Gold Eagle coins.

  13. Tinto says

    @Alex in MA

    The thing I would worry (if I didn’t want a TPG and First Strike) is that some of the coins might be returns/rejects from those who received their products earlier. I didn’t buy the Kennedy coin so I don’t have to fret about that but I am worried that this same fiasco will be the norm for the Mint, especially for products I am interested in like the Truman C&C and the Mark Twain commemorative in 2016.

  14. thePhelps says

    Alex…I think the stress is the date given for a product issued yesterday – almost instantly backordered. Most expect that a newly issued release should be available for shipping – at least on the day issued.

    I generally am not too put off by shipping dates – unless I see semi trucks loaded with product being delivered and I am waiting for months for a single coin or 2.

  15. says

    Alex,

    There’s a number of reasons people get upset about backorder status.

    – First there are the concerns of the people who want the TPG First Strike labels.

    – Second, there are concerns that dealers will get the coins first and grab the highest premiums and that “regular” customers who want to flip will only get them after the dealers have sold all their high grades first, thus reducing demand. There are plenty of MNB readers who do flip on eBay quite a bit.

    – Third, it is widely believed the mint resells returned or damaged coins and people are afraid they will be stuck with “returned” coins

    – Fourth, people want their shiny new thing now, and not some time in the distant future, especially if other buyers got the coin first and are they are stuck waiting. 🙂

    I am not too concerned yet because I think backorder status will be lifted soon, possibly next week. We will have to see exactly what is going on when Michael, Louis, and other reporters reach out to the mint to find out exactly what the issue is.

  16. Joe #2 says

    I got to tell you, Things were so much easier and a hell of a lot less stress back in the day before the internet with coins. Ebay & grading screwed up everything.. First strike and early release etc. etc. etc. stress stress stress… unreal.

  17. Alex in MA says

    @ Tinto says

    It is not supposed to happen to C&C sets and Mark Twain coins, because these products cannot be bought in bulk. And C&C has household limit. Let’s wait until this happen than complain.

  18. Dustyroads says

    When the MoD sets went on sell, I was logged into the Mint website moving from link to link and to my surprise the MoD link appeared ready to sell about 15 seconds before 12:00 noon. I have to wonder if the Mint did this yesterday.
    Did anyone here move in a out of the link before 12:00?

  19. Steven W. Knight says

    Great COMMENTS above from all of you.

    And mine is:

    Whoops there goes the around the NORMAL 3,000 UNC;
    and 4 ,000 PFs in this series since after LINCOLN.

    Five long years approximately.

    Now what will matter is how important those 1,883 (FDR low) to 3,943 ( GRANT high) places will be at the table; and
    will the time be quick in those collectors’ figuring that out.

  20. KCSO says

    Cag, we’ve gotten good at pegging these sales numbers, congrats. Looks like my guesstimate w/i 500 is good for opening day, and you’ll have nailed it for Sunday when those orders hit.

    The wind is out of this one I suspect.., curious to see if the flippers are back after being burned by 50 cents John

  21. KCSO says

    Is it Tuesday, high noon yet? Time for some real fun.., have that trigger finger ready, Dusty!

  22. Dustyroads says

    CO, I don’t believe Michael Z writes for the US Mint side of this blog anymore. He sold this blog to Whitman some time back. Of course he may just be keeping his name off the header now, but I think the writing style has changed. The writing has become very straight forward with little personal input, Michael used to communicate with the readers and do some research into weekly sales, unlike the present writing.

  23. Tinto says

    @Alex in MA

    You are right in that these are not in the Bulk order list, but as we have seen from past experience, the big buyers will find ways to get around the system .. possibly by having numerous people buy the product at the HH limit, like the homeless people bused in to buy at the coin show, or have friends, relatives, employees, etc. buy for them. It can even happen when a regular non-bulk buyer who buys two or three, gets it within, say a week of start of sale, keeps the best one and then returns the rest. In the meantime the product might already be on Backorder status with an expected available date months away (like the current FS proof) so when the rejects come back into the Mint these will probably be sent back out to the next customer waiting in line. I wouldn’t want to be that customer and have learned to make sure I get the order in the first day before the dreaded (to me) “Backorder” status kicks in. All JMO of course.

  24. Dustyroads says

    KCSO, I will, but I’m worried that the family may try to drag me away on an outing to the beach or somewhere.

  25. cagcrisp says

    @KCSO, Something tells me there is going to be Lots of cancellations. With the Proof BO going up Immediately you really didn’t know (STILL don’t) what to do. Was demand So strong (with no household limits) that you were Forced into taking a Flyer on a one day SO? I didn’t bite but I wonder IF some did and then after seeing today’s numbers, will cancel…

  26. I started collecting yesterday says

    Ends in Error wrote “What sort of BS will await Mint Customers on June 30 when the Coin & Chronicles Sets go on sale?” Indeed ! I’ve been wondering the same since they announced the release date. I called the shop in D.C. and they said they don’t know if they will have them on hand on Tuesday. I’m guessing not since household limits seems to mean no product in the shops until the limit is lifted.

  27. I started collecting yesterday says

    Every time I order from the web site I end up getting defected items that should have been taken out of the workflow. Since there’s no reimbursement for shipping, this whole process is a pain in the butt. I ordered several of the FDR sets only to make 1 good one for myself and lost money on the shipping (twice). I’m only a hobbyist for crying out loud.

  28. Darek says

    I started collecting yesterday you don’t need to pay for return shipping after you receive coin with some issue. Just call CS and ask them for prepaid label for UPS and they will email you one same day. I like this option better than the one was used with previous contractor.

  29. a Bob says

    Releasing the 2015 high relief design before the Jackie launch was a huge mistake. It took the wind out of this launch.

  30. mark says

    They sold the March of Dimes set at the D.C shop before the household order was lifted.

  31. Darek says

    a Bob the lower the mintages are – better for me. I collect FS from Day 1 and with lower mintages my investment will look much better in 10-20 years from now.

  32. says

    a Bob,

    I can’t agree with that. 10K sales for a First Spouse coin is an enormous improvement over the way the series has been going, in my opinion. It’s almost double what I was expecting for first day sales.

  33. Louis says

    It’s just 100 shy of 11K, which is at least double the entire sales of any spouse issue from the last couple years (proof and unc combined after in some cases almost 2 years of sales). And it probably would have been higher if people were not turned off by the proof backorder. I predict 15K or more by this time next week.

  34. Ikaika says

    @ Louis

    I am curious if the Jackie Kennedy FS coin will impact sales of the JFK gold coin. I think after the initial sales, the FS will slow significantly like the JFK.

  35. Louis says

    Ikaika- I agree, but if and when they have proofs in stock, I would expect a surge. Other than that I agree it will slow.

  36. Clark says

    — Jackie O sales numbers are very impressive if viewed in the context of all First Spouse coin sales since 2008. Like JFK gold coin sales, which soared on day one and then limped along, I highly doubt Jackie O will reach the 30K mintage limit. The good news is that anyone who wants one, will get one, albeit not right away.

    –There really is no programmatic downside to robust sales of Jackie O; there are the usual Mint screw ups we’ve grown accustomed to over the years, however, increased interest in Jackie O will heighten awareness of the FS program, which is positive.

    –The other shoe waiting to drop is the dreadful production quality that has plagued FS coins during the last five years. I would be pleasantly surprised if the quality of Jackie O coins improves, but I’m not betting on it.

    –A lot of dealer bulk purchases are to build inventory of Jackie Os for sale in future years and to complement JFK gold inventories. Sure, they will sell Jackie Os in high grades and with early releases designations early for premiums, but no FS collection will be complete without the highest profile coins. This bodes well for folks who start collecting FS coins after the series officially ends.

  37. Two Cents says

    To some, almost 11,000 first-day sales is low; to others it is too high. Whatever the case (or perspective), sales would be much, much higher if the US Mint had a better marketing team. Right now, all collectible coins are marketed to coin collectors. The general public is almost never included.

    My baseball friends, including the die-hard, never-miss-a-game ones, never heard of the Baseball Hall of Fame coins. March of Dimes volunteers and people who contribute to that organization never heard of that commem. Every law enforcement person I know never heard of the Marshal’s coins. Veterans and their families never heard of the coins honoring Vietnam Vets, POWs, Korean War, WWII, Marine Corps, among others. History buffs never knew about the many historical events and persons commemorated on coins (Civil War, Lincoln, Edison, Franklin, Columbus, etc.). And the list goes on and on.

    The only time I can recall the Mint mass-marketing a coin to the public was the Sacagawea dollar coin, but that was a circulating coin that most people would see in circulation anyway, and the product-recognition was largely done by almost heroic efforts by Cheerios and Walmart, not the Mint.

    Proof and Uncirculated Sets? ATB 5-oz. silver coins? Buffalo Gold? To the general public, they don’t exist, unless a numismatic friend shows or gives them one.

    You would think that the Mint would advertise commemorative coins, or at least their bread-and-butter products like Proof/Unc Sets and collectible American Eagle gold/silver coins, in major magazines like Time, People, Sports Illustrated (a no-brainer for their sports commems) and others. Or in specialty magazines for history and military buffs. Even an insert in charitable organizations’ mailings would go a long way in getting the word out.

    Instead, I see ads in numismatic publications, which is like preaching to the choir. Or in financial publications like the Wall Street Journal or Money magazine, and that is only for their generic bullion coins, not collector coins.

    In the case of the Jackie Kennedy gold, the coin would definitely be sold out in a matter of minutes on the first day of sales if the general public (which is increasingly aging and personally know first-hand the influence and grace of this appealing First Lady) knew about it. 30,000? More like 300,000 could have been sold.

    The US Mint does not know this basic rule: To get new customers, you must market to those who do not know about your product.

  38. Alex in MA says

    I just got an offer from MCM that if I buy 5 sets of C&C on June 30 they will pay me for sets $425

  39. Alex in MA says

    Make Money By Ordering from the Mint
    Order sets for $294.70 & we will pay you $425!
    We have hand-selected our best customers to receive this special offer. On June 30th at 12:00pm, the US Mint will be selling a set called “The Coin and Chronicles Set” for $57.95 each. There is a strict limit of 5 sets per household. The total amount that the Mint charges for the 5 sets is $294.70 (289.75 for the sets plus $4.95 for postage). We will pay you $425 to buy the sets and send them to us. It is important to place the order at 12:00 noon EST when the sets are put on sale as we want to be the first ones to get them.
    If you would like us to take the trouble of ordering out of the equation, we would be happy to place your order for you. Please call our sales team at 1-800-362-9004 to provide your billing information so that we can do this. After the order is placed we will destroy the credit card information. The sales team will also give you details on how to order them yourselves and send them to us. All shipping, billing, and payment questions can be answered via our sales team as well.
    We are only accepting a maximum of 250 people to participate in this opportunity so make sure to contact us ASAP.
    Call us at 1-800-362-9004 to get started!

  40. GoldFishin says

    If you really think people are going to come in and start collecting a series based on one high mintage coin, with rather tepid results considering all the hype, well jump in there and start buying up some of the prior year releases that you can sometimes pick up for about $75-$150 under current issue prices. I guess stranger things have happened….actually quite a few strange things lately. Good luck>>>

    http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&_mPrRngCbx=1&_udlo=300&_udhi=&_nkw=spouse++gold++first++-ngc+-pcgs&_ipg=200&rt=nc

  41. Louis says

    Take a look at the article on coinnews, which has actual photos of the unc coin, not a mock-up. I think it looks great, and I will enjoy my Jackie O coin for years to come. As someone I used to be friends with once said about his 2009 UHR, they will have to pry it from my cold dead hands!!

  42. KCSO says

    Anyone recall what the Product Code was for the HR gold when it appeared the other day?

  43. Louis says

    I don’t think there was a code. The Mint has issued an official retraction of the listing in response to an inquiry I made. Oops, we did not intend to list that and definitely not with a July release.

  44. Louis says

    Imagine the mayhem on 9/15! I am just glad I will have super fast FIOS internet by then!! Maybe I can then say oink! oink! I am a big pig now!

  45. Louis says

    Heidi Wastweet told me the silver medal will probably not be released until next year.

  46. GoldFishin says

    @KCSO- there was a code, was it UH8? I can’t remember it now, the US Mint has completely scrubbed any residual remains from their site?

  47. KCSO says

    Thanks Lou, GF – it was UH8, I shall continue to check often, it’ll show again when it’s not supposed to, guareenteed with that goat rope of a site

    Anyone receive their 7 coin Libertad sets yet?

    Weren’t they supposed to ship in May?

  48. Two Cents says

    Goldfishin, you are correct … the US Mint ID for the 24K High Relief gold $100 was UH8 when it was erroneously listed on their website. I remember it distinctly because I thought it was odd that they used UH (Ultra High?) instead of HR (High Relief?), and I couldn’t figure out why they used the number 8.

  49. Louis says

    Yeah, when I copied the pics, I think it said UH8, which is odd since they are high relief, not ultra high relief.

    As for the Lib sets- this is classic. The dealer who gets these has just gone on vacation! and they should be available when he returns in early July. Don’t worry it will be worth the wait.

  50. KCSO says

    GF – they snagged it off the image library as well, what coincidence to have that leaked right before Jackie, I won’t put too much thought into that occurrence.

    Did find the image for…
    Native American $1 Coin

    2016 Native American $1 Coin

    Year: 2016

    Public Law: 110-82

    Code Talkers from both World War I and World War II (1917-1945)

    Reverse
    Designer: Thomas D. Rodgers, Sr.
    Engraver: TBD
    Description: The reverse design features two helmets with the inscriptions WWI and WWII, and two feathers that form a “V,” symbolizing victory, unity, and the important role that these code talkers played. It includes the required inscriptions UNITED STATES OF AMERICA and $1.

  51. KCSO says

    2 cents – 8 because it was “behind the 8 ball” figuratively, not so much now 😉

  52. D Rittenhouse says

    http://catalog.usmint.gov/UH8.html used to expand to the catalog’s URL for the 2015 High Relief 24K Gold Coin, but now it redirects to the catalog’s gold coins main page.

    Bumping that UH8 by 1, to UH9. used to expand to the catalog’s URL for the 2015 High Relief Silver Medal, but now it redirects to the catalog’s medals main page.

  53. KCSO says

    UH8 should arrive at $1,540 (@ today’s pricing), though I can’t help but to think with that $100 designator/value, the mint might add $ to the price.., how does it go..? Time will Tell?

  54. Louis says

    I think $1540 is about right. Face value should not be a big factor. It should be similar to one ounce numismatic products like the AGE proof or Buffalo gold proof.

  55. GoldFishin says

    Heck, maybe the US Mint flew out a trial balloon to gauge the reactions from the coin collecting serfdom to the HR Coin. If Miss Liberty comes back with daintier hands and looking a little better nourished I guess we will know the answer to that. My personal opinion is they made a boo boo that was potentially interfering with the Jackie O release and decided to scrub the HR release news to halt any further deterioration in the demand for the J.K. coin. Just my conspiratorial opinion. 😉 TWT

  56. KCSO says

    Damn Miss UH8 is Hot, reminds me of a high school teacher I had, never missed a French class for sure

    I’d be Ok with her being left in an Unc finish, no need to frost anything

  57. KCSO says

    Zaz – what are the odd that the HR eagle gave Provident the idea for the Flying Eagle Cent leading to the Dying Eagle Zeek?

  58. Dustyroads says

    GF, That is exactly what happened, the mint boosted sales by removing UH8. With all the chatter right here on this thread about halting purchases of the Kennedy FS and saving their money for the Liberty, how could they not act.

  59. Dustyroads says

    Or I could just say that the disappearance of UH8 is another mishap of the Kennedy curse.

  60. Louis says

    For those who say she looks anorexic, do you have x-ray vision? I can’t see her body under the gown. Maybe you guys have a lot of imagination.

  61. Dave SW FL says

    DRitt,
    Thanks for the images. Anyone else wonder about the extremely poor definition on the lower mid to left portion of the dress? Otherwise, STUNNING!

  62. Ends in Error says

    I want that hi relief Coin. That’s one of the best Artistic Coins out of the US Mint in a while.

    Jacqueline in a $1/Bronze Medal Set will be good enough. Don’t need her in 1/2 oz of Gold .

  63. GoldFishin says

    Dave SW FL says “Anyone else wonder about the extremely poor definition on the lower mid to left portion of the dress?”

    I have wondered about it a lot, especially after I read some comments on other sites about her looking anorexic and malnourished. If you look at her body position, she is turned at about a 30 degree angle, yet the dress is flat facing the front, without any folds in the dress it makes the dress look thinner at the bottom, when in reality the dress is thinner because she is turned at an angle. I think she is a lovely lady and I am saving my money now for its arrival. I am a bit disappointed that it won’t be a proof coin, but if it turns out like the 2009 UHR, with near PL surfaces, I will fine with it.

  64. Jerry Diekmann says

    Joe2 – Just don’t buy into the stress – pin intended, I guess. I decided long ago that I had enough stress in my life from things that I could not control (kids come to mind, but I digress), so I stayed away (and saved myself a ton of grief and money) by not buying into the hype about first strike/ MS70 vs. MS69, early release, and all the other totally made up stuff so that the big dealers, TPGs, and some flippers and all their greed (which believe me, will prove to be a Really BIG bubble in the future) perpetuate, at the expense of a lot of people who are spending way too much for way too little. The numismatic community (at least many of those on this blog) already know that the Mint and the big dealers are in bed together and the dealers get special treatment from the Mint and the TPGs, and they make a fortune on the rest of us. I think the proper legal term for these practices is FRAUD. Now, since everything else you said makes sense, why did you go and ruin it by saying you’re going to vote for Trump? He is not going to be a Presidential nominee, unless he (and the Republican party)( decides to run as a 3rd party candidate – probably not going to happen.

  65. I started collecting yesterday says

    Thank you for the tip on asking them for prepaid label for UPS. About the MOD set and DC shop: i asked them only days before if the were going to have the MOD and they told me no. Maybe one has to be in the know or have the right friends to get that kind of service. So, I dont own the set because i dislike ordering from the web site that much. I cant afford to buy multiples, assemble a good set, and send the rest back for products only available via the web. Im saving all of my pennies for next week. Thanks again for the advice.

  66. VA Bob says

    UPDATE: Women on the new $10 bill. It has been recently decided not to place the image of Monica Lewinski on the $10 note since she has all ready had her face on a Bill.

    Just a little humor for the late night crowd.

  67. Two Cents says

    Louis, GoldFishin, Tinto … thanks for those pics of the Jackie gold coin. Wow. The coin sure looks good in Proof and Unc. When people see them, they will want to buy.

    Louis, I am disappointed that the US Mint will release the High Relief Silver Medal next year instead of this year along with the 24K HR Gold. If they go ahead with the new series, will 2016 have two silver medals? Does that mean that the medals will not be dated? Or does it mean that the Mint is not going to go with the series as a yearly thing, but whenever, whatever?

  68. Two Cents says

    D Rittenhouse, thanks for the links to the 24K High Relief Gold. I better download them before they disappear completely. To add to your post, the coin in the generic clamshell case can be found at …

    http://demandware.edgesuite.net/aarb_prd/on/demandware.static/Sites-USM-Site/Sites-usm-master-catalog-us/default/dw6cc072c2/images/hi-res/coins/Gold-Coins/uh8_d.jpg

    I still don’t understand why the US Mint doesn’t put this unique 1-oz high-relief gold coin in a special wooden box. In contrast, the ½-oz. First Spouse coins comes “packaged in a custom–designed, highly polished, dome–chested, lacquered hardwood presentation case” (according to the Mint’s website). From eBay photos, that case is a really high-end, handsome type of burl wood, a perfect companion to the new series of gold 1-oz high-relief coins.

  69. Louis says

    Two Cents- To be clear nothing is official at this point. It is still possible they will released both the gold coin and silver medal this year.

  70. Jeff says

    For those lamenting about the Kennedy FS coins being backordered, consider this: while the Mint expected a surge in overall orders compared with the tepid sales of the last several years, I am sure they did not expect as significant a first day sales spike as they received. As such, they probably had on hand enough to supply about 30% to 50% of the initial demand. Be patient. There will be plenty of time to get these and still have the meaningless ‘First Strike’ appellation applied by the conscientious Third Party Graders and that oh so significant differentiation between a hopelessly flawed -69 and an absolutely perfect -70.
    As far as the C&C sets go, I would expect all the RP dollars for all 4 sets to have already been struck, encapsulated and set aside for packaging. The only PM would be the demand for 76,000 ASE uncirculated planchets to be diverted to this program; ASE uncirculated debut sales neared 128,000, currently stand at 158,000 and 2014 final sales were 225,000. Question is – which product would be more likely to go on backorder – $44 ASE or $58 C&C set. My guess is the ASE, but we shall see.

  71. says

    GF – per your link:
    “Jeffs Coins received these issues directly from the US Mint at the opening day ceremony.”

    Think good ‘ol Jeff meant to say that he and his pals stood in line, so the mint must have had them. I’m not aware of an opening day ceremony, Lou can chime in on that, unless mint employees have an opportunity to buy same day. I know the security guards at the HQ kiosk are prohibited from buying opening day. Though his cat always seems to get his up first, he had JFK golds up within like a hour or two (graded I think) of them opening in Chicago, along with BHoFs.

    I am quite surprised how quick she went BO in Proof, wouldn’t you expect to have more on hand if you intentionally raised the mintage limit. I was hoping the new Deputy Director (former Marine) would have some new start initiatives that would improve our mint purchasing experience – haven’t heard peep out of him since taking the reigns in over 8 months. Patterson seemed far more visible, but that’s just my outside perspective so who knows.

  72. Louis says

    There was no opening day ceremony for the Jackie spouse coin to the best of my knowledge. I am sure I would have either been notified by the Mint or heard about it from the media.

    The kiosk at HQ must have gotten some proofs afterall.

  73. Dave SW FL says

    My guess is that Jeff’s Coins is the only Jackie listing on the Bay because all the other big boys are at the TPG services. How did they get them and no one else? Again my guess is crony capitalism which is rampant in gubment extends to OUR mint.
    Losing patience with the mint.
    We will see what happens with the Pres C&C sets.
    Another fiasco and I may just begin to sell off my collection and go to 50s autos.

  74. VA Bob says

    Dave SW FL – The Mint is the single point of failure, and they can either improve or not. They know that whether you buy directly from them or a third party, they still got the sale. IMO things will not improve until it hits their bottom line hard, which at the moment seems unlikely. Bottom line is they are going to continue on as usual.

  75. VA Bob says

    Clark – If that was minted, I believe I’d have to break down and buy one too. Now there’s an idea for Provident after the Zombucks series ends… presidential mistresses.

  76. says

    VA Bob – “presidential mistresses” – I’ll 2nd that! Probably about the same contribution was made as the FSs (in most cases) for the country.., oops, guess I’m not suppose to say that.., my bad :S

    For those not able to join in the C&C foray to commence at noon (ET) on Tuesday, don’t despair, there’s probably a good probability that we’ll all get a set or two.

    Here’s the rationale – the BHoF $5 UNC took 8-10 hours to sell out at 18,000 with a HH limit of 50.., now granted there’s a considerable price difference between $419 and $57, though with a HH of 5 for the C&C, I would anticipate that they’ll be on sell (albeit in a back-order status) through the evening hours of the 30th (or a bit longer) – so have faith!

  77. Tinto says

    @Jerry Diekmann

    No thanks, I’m keeping my eyes on the Truman C&C and all the remaining Pres C&C of 2015 .. just so I can get my hands on the RP’s and keep my RP collection intact. Hopefully I get lucky and get the Truman but with the way the Mint is now “operating” I don’t know …. and I plan to keep them in OGP so no TPG First Strike or stuff like that. But I am prepared for the fact that I might not get a Truman C&C in which case I switch to RP type set and buy only one of the remaining C&C releases. That’ll save me some money … and less going to the Mint 🙂

  78. MikeinPa says

    coin world says the mint may produce a 5 ounce
    comm. for the 50th of apollo 11 in 2019

  79. Ends in Error says

    Mikein Pa

    Would that be 5 oz in Gold ? Gawg how I love low mintage numbers.

    Can we go with Gold – or Platinum? Please?

  80. Ends in Error says

    I intentionally wanted to mispell god – but meant it as gawd.

    Before the monsta protests arrive about 5 ounces of Gold – how many are willing to spend $7,000 on a corroded penny? Yet the thought of $7,000 on a 5 oz hunk of Gold might raise big protests?

    This would be like the 2nd coming of the Pan-Pac $50 slug. Only better – and bigger.

  81. Tinto says

    @MikeinPa

    Thanks for the info. I read the article and one thing that jumped out at me was that the Mint is also considering curved surfaces like the BHOF …. wow that would be some coin … of course I hope they don’t screw it up with the design …. and that 5 oz is in addition to the gold, silver and clad so I guess I gotta start seriously saving up …

  82. Joe #2 says

    Hey Jerry… I like Trump, Not just because i’m from Brooklyn.. lol, But he says it the way it really is. He doesn’t BS around like all the rest of the phonies out there ( imo ) anyway. Yeah, He likes to talk about all the money he has ,lol, But i believe he cares about this country and wants to keep America, America.. I know he doesn’t have a chance in he##, But if he should by some accident get to where i can vote for him i will. If not, Then it’s the same old same old.
    Nobody else running i care to vote for anyway. I did like Herman Cain, I wish he would run. We shall see what happens…

  83. VA Bob says

    If the image has the moon on it, which it in all likelihood should, it would look best in silver. Though a bi-metallic (not gilded) curved coin with a gold “sun rise” or such would be cool, and not out of reach of practically everyone.

  84. a Bob says

    I will be buying a certified Truman silver medal that someone dumps on the bay. I just don’t get the interest in reverse proof dollars.

  85. Jerry Diekmann says

    Tonto – what you said makes a lot of sense, and it has also saved you a lot of cents too. I too am not buying into the meaningless labels hype. I am no prophet, but I can almost predict with certainty that first strike, early release, and “signature” labels will have zero extra value five to ten years after they have been sold. If these are such great long term investments, than why are the dealers and flippers, and their cohorts, the TPGs, so anxious to sell them so quickly? I am sure that they all subscribe to the “greater fool” theory. For those of us who invest in the stock market, this practice also has the name “Keynesian beauty contest”, after this “strategy” was described by Keynes in his 1936 book, “The General Theory of Employment, Interest, and Money”. BTW, Keynes was a very smart guy,

    I carried this philosophy on to assembling a collection of Buffalo nickels, Winged Liberty Head dimes, and Standing Liberty quarters (BTW I have no 70s, 69s, 68s, 67s, 66s, and maybe just a couple of 65s from these series) by date only, not by date and mint mark, especially since so many branch mint nickels and quarters especially are so expensive and most of them in the 1920s were struck very poorly, with flat horns and flat heads, respectively. The P mints were minted in far greater numbers and also were struck for the most part with greater pressure, so they struck up better. But, I still have no 1921 dimes or quarters, and if I never get any, that will be OK with me, as I know there are plenty other coins in the series that I will never acquire either.

  86. Two Cents says

    It’s interesting that the Coin World article states that according to the Apollo 11 bill, the reverse design will be “continuing over what would otherwise be the edge of the coins, such that the reverse design extends all the way to the obverse design.”

    That sounds like there will be no reeding on the edge of the coins. I wonder that if the reverse shows part of the cratered lunar surface, the edge will likewise show bumps and indentations like the moon, and that motif will extend to the obverse design.

    Having no edge reeding (or lettering/ornamentation) will be a major departure from what separates a coin from a medal in US coinage history. The reason why there was reeding (or edge embossment) was to prevent “shaving” of the precious metal off the coin. That tradition carried over to modern-day coins even if they are no longer made of silver or gold. (Non-precious metal coins like the cents or nickels had flat surfaces on the edge.)

    I also wonder if the huge 5-oz. silver coin will have curved surfaces. I remember that for the Baseball Hall of Fame coins, the US Mint invested a lot of time and money to create acceptable dies and just the right pressure to ensure that the convex and concave designs would stamp out properly. Being 3 inches in diameter (or maybe a bit smaller to account for the curvature), the technological issues might be daunting, especially if up to 100,000 of them are to be minted. But then again, the 5-oz. planchets will be made of softer .999 fine silver (vs. .900 coin silver or the harder cu-ni clad).

    In any case, it will be exciting to see a curved lunar coin that commemorates what is probably the greatest and most inspiring technological achievement that man has ever accomplished – imagine, putting a human being on another celestial body that mankind has looked up in awe and wonderment since the beginning of human consciousness!

  87. gary says

    a Bob… I’m with you on getting the silver Truman medal in the aftermarket. Certainly there will be those who covet the reverse proof dollars and sell off the silver medals. I don’t get the big deal about reverse proofs either and in some instances looks far less attractive than a regular proof. The RP golden dollars are nothing more than polished turds to me.

  88. Tinto says

    @Two Cents

    “In any case, it will be exciting to see a curved lunar coin that commemorates what is probably the greatest and most inspiring technological achievement that man has ever accomplished …”

    And it was the fulfillment of President Kennedy’s goal announced years earlier to the entire world .. truly a mission accomplished.

  89. gary says

    @Two Cents… good post! I hope the 2019 Lunar Landing coins are made only in 1 oz. and 5 oz. silver.

  90. gary says

    @Tinto… it was not just an inspiring technological achievement, it was a human sociological event up there along with the invention of the first hand tools and the wheel!

  91. ClevelandRocks says

    Too many offerings. Circus coinage. The USMint has morphed into the RCM. Nothing is special anymore.

  92. Ends in Error says

    I grew up in the 60’s with JFK being the first President that registered in my consciousness. The Moon Mission was my inspiration all through the 60’s.
    I remember watching the ” live” Moon Landing on July 20, 1969 – what magic that was.

    This 50th Anniversary in 2019 with the Coins will be really spacial. OMG I can’t hardly wait.

  93. says

    Wow that’s a beautiful coin in proof! I can see it becoming really popular regardless of mintage numbers. 30,000 coins ain’t a lot. It’s a sell out for sure. Another interesting addition to a series that includes the liberty subset, the Adams mule (medal), some beautiful early coins, the controversial Alice Paul issue, some extremely scarce recent coins, the quickly sold out Roosevelt proof and 2014 medal set and a few other things. I like it a lot. Bravo mint and collectors!

  94. KCSO says

    hilo says- JUNE 27, 2015 AT 3:24 PM, “Still think those spouse coins with a classic design are the real winners.”

    Probably the most nonchalant, accurate post of the week, so yep, agreed, in due time.., KCSO

  95. a Bob says

    The older I get the less I am attracted to the hype. Limited mintage does not mean too much unless there is a collector base. I always remind myself that the lowest modern U.S. commemorative dollar mintage is under 14k AND there are still plenty of them available from dealers. That means there is not 14000 collectors putting together a commemorative dollar set. Even less for reverse proofs.

  96. Jon H says

    I got my UNC Jackie on Friday. It is a very nice coin, looks absolutely lovely. This is only my second FS coin, the first being Alice Paul. Unfortunately, for my bank account, I see myself buying some more FS coins.

  97. Dave SW FL says

    Jon H,
    Look how smart you are…. you will get your FS golds at melt ( or very close) and if you time it right, very cheaply. This bear market in PMs is brutal and apparently getting worse. When the stock & bond markets panic, you will be presented the opportunity of a lifetime.
    I salute your patience. I wish I had more of it. I am learning a good lesson about chasing. Several years back I decided to put together a commemorative set and have paid the price to learn the patience lesson. Jumped into the hobby without reading enough to really know where true $ value lies in collecting. All of the “hot” moderns crash & burn price wise . You have to have an Edsel mentality with these, I believe.

  98. Ends in Error says

    A Bob

    Yeah no doubt 14 k would be plenty for every collector that really wanted one….BUT……..

    Collectors aren’t the only ones getting into the Mints Game. Dealers and flippers want in also.

    On the C&C Sets I got a feeling the Dealers and flippers have snuck in the side door. Real Collectors are slowly being squeezed out as primary US Mint customers. It’s a sad day for any one actually buying for their own collection.

  99. Louis says

    a Bob- The 4 lowest mintage coins, which are ll in the 14-15K range, may still be available but to me it matters more that they are worth 10-15 times issue price each and much more in 70 since and there is good two-way trade in these coins.

  100. Barry says

    @ a Bob- to help make your point I noticed recent Disney proof coins going for half price from when they first came out and these are low mintage ( 10k for example). Same with some other proof coins. I can’t help but, notice them on websites showing their markdowns. I felt coins like that were overpriced to begin with and never bought them. Once they get to half price it seems they start to slowly disappear off of the sites.

  101. Jon H says

    Dave SW FL

    In hindsight, it could be good. I actually bought the Alice Paul “by mistake”. There was a proof that was at an auction here, and I put a $500 bid in, expecting for it to go for much higher, and I ended up being the high bidder at $500. So I got that at below spot.

  102. ike says

    Thanks Jon H. I ordered 1 of each & both are still processing. I completed my order with-in 1 min. I guess I should have put in 2 separate orders

  103. D Rittenhouse says

    I appreciate that the coin used for size comparison in the CNN article photo was the 2003 Arkansas statehood quarter. But, too bad it wasn’t the 2010 Hot Springs AtB quarter. 🙂

  104. cagcrisp says

    @KCSO, My Lady keeps telling me that we are going. When she decides for us to go, we WILL go…LOL..

  105. jeff says

    Looks like there trouble tomorrow morning in the stock market futures down 250+
    Its sad how Greece can cause this much turmoil. Greece economy is that of Texas but
    tomorrow the stock market will lose billions just because a county is leaving the euro .
    Maybe a buy opportunity ?

  106. says

    We should all be watching Greece really closely. This is the first time such a major component of the global financial system has broken down since the Lehman crisis. We’ve been hearing for years now that “Greece is contained,” and we’re about to find out if that is true or just nonsense. It will be extremely interesting to see if the days of cheap silver and relatively cheap gold have come to an end (again).

    Plus, I am very worried we will be where Greece is now in the next 5-10 years.

    The next week is going to be extremely interesting.

  107. Dave SW FL says

    Very modest pre market move in PMs. TPTB will contain any move……….until they lose control. I think that’s still quite a ways off. Given what’s happened since 2007, they have exercised their power very adeptly. The media no longer investigates anything and the executive and “leadership” allow whatever they please. And the people’s apathy is astounding!

  108. john says

    someone on ebay has 50 sets of the new c/c for sale at 129.00. How can this be if there a 5 sets limts,and know have be sold from the mint .

  109. Dave SW FL says

    Jon

    He doesn’t say he HAS them. He won’t start shipping until AFTER the release date in July. Probably has buyers lined up with immediate access.

  110. Dustyroads says

    Apparently L&C can buy the coins in excess of 5 set’s per if they have other peoples CC #’s. Maybe Jeff’s coins is doing the same thing.

  111. jeff says

    Let Greece burn like the romans did years ago. It only took several centuries for Greece to come back with their tails between there legs. They will find out the hard way what it means to be responsible …

  112. jeff says

    I initially was not interested in the CC set but now I just might try to order just to screw up these hoarders …

  113. cagcrisp says

    There are various ways to play the Greece Tragedy, however, you may become a Tragedy IF you gamble wrong…

    Gold is NOT a way that I will be playing it…

  114. Sith says

    @Jeff – LOL you mean as responsible as the morons that were dumb enough to lend them the money? The EU gave Greece a platumun credit card and told them to use it wisely, they are now shocked, shocked to find out they misused those funds, and can’t pay them back.

  115. Sith says

    And those worried about Greece, Puerto Rico’s Governor is using the Greek smoke screen to declare that Puerto Rico’s debt is also unmanageable. The announcement will be made tonight , fireworks to follow the announcement

  116. says

    I bet the eyes of the other high profile dead beat euro countries are watching ever so close so as to mimic the Greeks if they should weasel their way out of debt.

    This process of getting Greece to balance its budget has taken so long that those who left their money within the Greek banks must be INSANE!

    Now limited to ATM 60 euros/day life must be just wonderful for those without hard currency.

    Once again…giving everybody everything results in everybody having nothing.

    Semper Fi

  117. Sith says

    @Silky – Excellent observation with one caveat, the deadbeat nations were allowed to borrow so they could buy German, and other central European goods. Its funny how we blame the deadbeats but not the idiots who lent them the money knowing they could not pay, or based on the concept that under the Euro all countries were somehow equally credit worthy. IE it made no difference to lend money to Germany or Greece, because of the Euro they were all equal in the eyes of the bond market…

  118. Tinto says

    And I read somewhere a long while ago that Greece only got admitted into the Euro because of some magical financial process where they used as advised by some Wall Street firm (for a fee of course) but this wasn’t known until after Greece got in …

  119. Louis says

    Tinto- Yes, Goldman Sachs made a ton of money off this even though they committed fraud by cooking Greek’s books so they would qualify to join.

  120. says

    jeff says
    JUNE 28, 2015 AT 11:03 PM

    Let Greece burn like the romans did years ago. It only took several centuries for Greece to come back with their tails between there legs. They will find out the hard way what it means to be responsible …

    I agree, but do we not have an outstanding debt of trillions! When will we become responsible? China’s Yuan is pegged to the dollar, yet they hold our debt (or a lot of it). I wonder if our leaders are blind to what I perceive to be a grave mistake? Or, do they know something I do not? We were a producing nation, now we are a consuming nation, I just cannot figure how this government is able to support so many consumers? Anybody have any ideas?
    GSDykes

  121. Steven W. Knight says

    No one, nobody knows the future. Coins less than 2,600 proof and 2,000 mint state in gold average around $20,000 each from the US mint since the late 1790s.

    We now are looking at several coins around that and those numbers in these spouses. Two of which were BOTH the second most popular president and his wife; which was the first most popular spouse in the White House of all time. FDR’s. Surely there will not be over that number in full series sets. 1,886 in mint state and 2,377 in proof state; WAY before the final audit which will be somewhat lower.

    The $90,000 BILLION $90,000,000 million or $90,000,000,000.00 ($90 trillion) of US bonds and similar debt is in trouble. At least $10 trillion in physical gold and silver backs it up in real money.

    At least China had the common sense to build whole entire cities and roads to them before the GREATEST DEPRESSION will soon hit. And they (China) will also have 50% of all the gold ever mined still above the ground. Meanwhile America has 200 year old cities that are crumbling due to inept leadership. And since we have to buy our gold on the open market per the law for ALL gold coins made by the US Mint – I sincerely wonder if we have any supply. For Platinum law says use the Treasury supply and REPLENISH. Not that way with gold or silver – NO SIR RE!

    These coins are the new $50 Pan Am 1915 gold pieces come 2017!

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