Making American History Coin and Currency Set Includes 2012-S Proof Silver Eagle

The US Mint has revealed a new product known as the Marking American History Coin and Currency Set. The set contains one coin and one note made in America and will be issued to mark the 220th anniversary of the United States Mint and the 150th anniversary of the Bureau of Engraving and Printing.

The coin included in the set is a 2012 Proof American Silver Eagle. Although not explicitly stated on the preliminary product page, this coin will carry the “S” mint mark. The other component of the set will be a series 2009 $5 note with a serial number beginning in “150”, the signature of Treasurer Rosie Rios, and the San Francisco Federal Reserve bank designation.

Pricing is listed at $72.95 with no maximum product limit or ordering limit indicated.

The 2012-S Proof Silver Eagle had also been included in the San Francisco Silver Eagle Set, along with a reverse proof coin also bearing the “S” mint mark. Prior to and throughout the four week ordering window from June 7, 2012 to July 5, 2012, there had been no indication that either of the coins included in the set would be offered within other numismatic products. Now, less than two weeks after the conclusion of the ordering period, the Mint has revealed another product which contains one of the coins.

The last reported sales for the San Francisco Set came in at 251,302, which had been presumed to be the approximate mintage for each of the coins within the set. The inclusion of the 2012-S Proof Silver Eagle within the Making American History Coin and Currency Set will expand the mintage of the coin beyond that number.

For the most part, collectors seemed to have been pleased with the handling of the San Francisco Set offering, and the final order level was low enough to support a premium for the sets on the secondary market. With one of the coins no longer unique to the set, this may place a damper on further appreciation, or at least shift the premium towards the reverse proof coin. This may also damper enthusiasm or introduce skepticism for future special offerings from the US Mint.

The current situation is not without precedent. A similar situation also occurred in 2006 surrounding the 20th Anniversary Gold and Silver Eagle Sets. Initially, the US Mint announced three sets: the first containing proof, reverse proof, and uncirculated Gold Eagles; the second containing proof, reverse proof, and uncirculated Silver Eagles; and the third containing uncirculated Gold and Silver Eagles. At the time of release, the reverse proof and uncirculated coins (or “burnished” with “W” mint mark) appeared to be unique to the sets. Several weeks later, the US Mint revealed new products containing the one ounce 2008-W Uncirculated Gold Eagle and the 2008-W Uncirculated Silver Eagle.


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Comments

  1. boz says

    This does seem like a slap in the face to those who ordered the two coin set, particularly if the joint mint/BEP product is shipped out two months before the last of the two coins sets.

  2. bob says

    There is always precedent for things like this, because the Mint never does anything dumb just once!

    It’s still pathetic of them to spring this on everyone who has not even received what was sold to us as a “special S mint marked set” just 2 weeks ago…. I don’t care what their excuse is.

  3. Dursch says

    Wish it was an uncirculated/burnished “s” instead. I think they would sell a lot more sets.

  4. Addielise says

    Why am I not surprised? The Mint has complete disregard for all of its customers, and like Boz says, watch them ship out this new set immediately while those who ordered the two coin set have to wait until Thanksgiving. They don’t need to spend a dime on a new ordering system cause everything is going to be minted to demand, followed by screwing everyone who ordered by selling the same product in a different manner. Going to be real interesting to see how many people get cold feet and cancel the 2 coin set orders, especially since the Mint refuses to update the 251k number. Might pay off for those who stick it out and pray that the reverse proof isn’t sold separately as well.

  5. Louis says

    Why did it have to be an S proof if the set is to commemorate the 150th anniv. of the BEP and the 220th anniv. of the Mint. Couldn’t they have used a regular proof coin or the burnished W?

  6. Frankie says

    The US Mint are morons. If there was even ONE numismatist among them this wouldn’t have happened… They really don’t have a clue about coin collecting.

  7. bob says

    Let’s review:

    2 weeks ago:
    – The Mint has an exclusive S mint marked set for us
    – The set is $75 per coin
    – only 28 days to order

    – The Mint says they do not see a need to produce an S mint marked burnished eagle

    As of today;
    – The mint wants to sell another set with 1 coin from the EG1 sets
    – Take out the $5 bill, and the same coin is now $68 or less
    – Unlimited time to order the coin with no mintage limits, which could mean years of availability

    Is it just me or wouldn’t the S burnished eagle the Mint refused to make recently have gone perfectly with this set…. and they are diluting the mintage of the S proof eagle for no valid reason at all?!

    They didn’t have to mess with either coin from EG1 to make this set, they could have easily used other coins and made another nice collectible set for us all, instead of blatantly disrespecting their customers and using dishonest tactics. They knew we all assumed the EG1 coins would be exclusive.

  8. Wylson says

    Yes, the mint put one to the greedy flippers and to the “I’m ordering six sets for my grandchildren crowd. Hoorah!

  9. simon says

    I’m in for a set for my collection. Looking forward to having one in hand soon !

  10. Michael in Bama says

    DISGUSTED, DUPED!!!!!!!!!
    I hope all the whiners are happy now!!!

    NEED I SAY MORE?

  11. hi ho silver says

    “Making American History” How ? I guess sf hoarded notes in 2009 for this set. WOW I got a 5 dollar that starts with 150 !!!lol

  12. Louis says

    I agree with what you folks have said, and this is an example of why I admire the Canadian Mint so much. Yes, the RCM sometimes issues the same coin in different formats, but they do not mess with the mintages, which are often very low for recent coins. I am glad I did not go nuts on the SF sets.

  13. hi ho silver says

    Louis I too have converted to wildlife series in Canada and and can’t wait for the next one to be announced !

  14. Michael in Bama says

    BREAKING NEWS:

    The U.S. Mint is in co-hoots with the TPG’s to prevent returns.

    My prediction is that the boxes will have to be sealed to get certain labels.
    WTF??? Do they think we are this stupid???

  15. Michael in Bama says

    Will the mint make this an all polished proof with no frosting? That would be the only way to justify this set.

  16. Louis says

    As someone said, it may depend on the postmark. I should check with the TPG’s though from past experience I suspect they do not yet even know about this (at least the customer service reps).

  17. Louis says

    I just got a 2nd silver Moose at issue price with free shipping from Canada Post. Get ’em while they are still available (and going for a lot more elsewhere)!

  18. Larry says

    Just when you think you are dealing with normal people, you realize you are dealing with the bizzaro world. What next?

  19. Kudbegud says

    The news of this set had to planned to be released at this time. Do you think they came up with the concept, got it through all the bureaucracy required, designed a packaging folder, got bids for providing the folder, got the press time at the SF mint reserved, etc, etc etc, in the 2 weeks since the deadline for ordering the EG1 set occurred? Really?

    The idea to have a different finish, like burnished, makes a lot more sense and would have greater sales. But that would involve a thought process extending beyond the tip of the nose of whom ever is in charge of marketing scams, er, schemes, at the mint.

    SHEESH!!!!!!! Are they really this stupid? Or think that we, collectors, are?

  20. DiaB says

    YAY! kudos to the mint!!! the only people who are upset are the dealers and flippers that ordered 5 of the previous. collectors who patiently order one of every set regardless will just welcome this new addition.

  21. J A says

    I’m actually not as disappointed, I was looking forward to the reverse proof which this set does NOT include so no, I’m not upset by the regular ASE being included in this offering.

  22. Big L says

    Dear Michael,
    For a government whose public face is built on openness, I find the absence of any mention of the inclusion of a 2012-S AE silver proof in this “Making American History” set prior to the June 5, 2012 opening of sales for the SF Silver Eagle set unconscionable and, quite frankly, extremely disturbing. The United States Mint may have a privileged position compared to non-governmental corporate entities, but it must, ultimately, be responsible to the people and their Congressmen.
    Other than writing to our Senators ( http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm/ ) and Representatives ( http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/ ), could you please suggest the email of a contact at the US Mint to whom we can voice our concerns?

  23. Ed says

    Ok so what was the mint to do with all the leftover Sanfran proof coins melt them down? Think about it.

  24. Gary says

    I think they are just trying to teach all the people who complained about the 25th Anniversary Set…”Not enough coins….here you go”…..shouldnt be anyone calling the Mint and complaining that there isnt enough silver eagles to go around this year!!

    BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR BECAUSE YOU JUST MIGHT GET IT

    Nice job!

  25. Tom says

    pretty.. Lame cover for this set.
    It must have been created in all of 10min.
    (probably earlier this morning).
    Maybey they stamped out too many S proofs?

  26. face 1004 says

    I think Ed is right. They had probably minted more than they should. But did they do the same with the reverse proof? If so there might be another set on the way.

  27. Addielise says

    Dia and Wilson, do you not realize this is a slap in the face to everyone? Not just dealers and flippers, but EVERYONE who ordered the 2 coin set. Could have been worse, they could have thrown the reverse proof in there instead, although they still have 5 months to come up with another lame idea. I also have to wonder what they hope to accomplish with this unecessary release. Everyone who wanted a S proof eagle bought the 2 coin set, why would anyone want this thing in an ugly paper folder with a $5 bill? They’ll be lucky to sell 50k of these things. Now if they threw in an uncirc burnished S, I would imagine they’d sell at least 150k-200k. But that would make too much sense for our government to handle.

  28. simon says

    Some pretty robust mint bashing 🙁

    but : since the mint has stopped producing golden dollars, it has expanded its collector offerings to serve the community. This product makes good sense to those of us who (will) purchase one “to have and to hold.”

    Please count on more such products in the future – some of us do buy cheerfully ! : )

  29. Zaz says

    I didn’t go crazy over the SF Annie sets, and now in retrospect, perhaps I should have. The orders with 9/28 and 10/31 shipping dates may get cancelled in droves now that the regular S-proof is not a unique coin. The coin and currency set won’t have more than 50,000. Even with no EG1 cancellations, that’s just over 301K total proofs, a far cry from the 850K W-proofs made every year, so for $68, it’s a steal.

  30. ClevelandRocks says

    Not nice Mint!

    I used to look forward to my subscriptions, but I cancelled them ALL since the Mint screwed me by lowering pricing after my subscriptions were filled.

    I only bought 2 SF sets, but this REALLY strikes a nerve.

    I shelled out a lot of $ for a 2011 proof Buffalo last year when I thought the mintage would be low, but the dag thing is still on sale.

    Turning me off from collecting SO hear this Mint: if you tick off a lot of people, not only will folks not buy your prodects, there will be less DEMAND too.
    I remember the ol days of stamp collecting and coins may go the same way.

  31. Ikaika says

    Back in 2006, I was skeptical when the US mint launched the ASE reverse proof and burnished coins. The RP was supposed to be one of a kind, a special coin (in my mind). Here we are in 2012 and we have already three ASE RP and several burnished coins. I am not sure why the mint suddenly announced this coin and currency set. To commemorate the 220th and 150th anniversaries of the mint and BEP? 220th seems like a strange number to me. I thought the mint did a good job with the 75th ASE sales, however, I am not surprised anymore by anything (good or bad) our US mint does.

  32. says

    I had a funny feeling about this when I heard the news. Guess I’m not surprised by Michael’s confirmation. Bad day to be a flipper who invested in this thing, that’s for sure. Yikes.

    Louis’ point about the RCM is well taken. Other world mints have pulled similar stunts before; Perth’s overminting of the colored dragons is one example. I can’t recall any examples of the RCM doing it though.

  33. Ikaika says

    BTW, for those who are not happy can still cancel their order for the 75th ASE set. The mint will most likely place the proofs in the coin and currency sets 🙂

  34. Richard W says

    Well with the cancellation box still open on the 75 AN SF set and now this announcement of what appears to be another run of the SF ASE it’s eminent there will be an abundance of this SF 2011 SF ASE sound quite likely return numbers could be larger than previously expected.This could lower the numbers of actual remaining sets making the SF ASE Reverse proof more attractive.I’m a little intrigued by this possibility.Of course there is still the thought they will toss out another Reverse Proof offering.Remember they aren’t working in our favor.Oh what they hey!!!!!!!!

  35. Ikaika says

    @ Captain and Louis

    You guys are absolutely right about the other world mints (specially the Perth). I am done buying from them after the 5oz silver proof dragon fiasco. They are still sitting there for sale. We, the Americans are probably their biggest customers.

  36. Louis says

    Thanks, CO.

    Go ahead everyone, and cancel your SF orders! Maybe the final number will be much lower than 250K.

    I also got the Mint’s confirmation this afternoon. and my take will appear in the next couple days.

  37. Louis says

    If they release the reverse proof separately, there will be a deluge of order cancellations. That seems like bad business strategy.

    On world mints, I just want to stress that RCM is in my view better than the others (currently, not in past years) because they keep the numbers low no matter how many ways the coins are released, but the other mints tend to be like ours and overdue things.

  38. Ikaika says

    @ Louis

    Could there be a chance the US mint already produced several 100K of the 75th anniversary coins and sales fell short of their expectation. If this is the case, we can expect a separate offering for the RP.

    I also agree with you on the RCM. The Perth mint on the other hand became a joke with the Dragon series.

  39. Richard W says

    If there is a final number published from the mint i doubt it will be credible with all of the spinning.

  40. Skidtrek says

    So maybe, the regular proof will be worth nothing, but after tons of cancellations the Reverse proof will be a winner?? Comments?

  41. Louis says

    @ Ikaika

    I don’t know, though it is possible. They almost certainly did expect more demand for the SF sets and probably made more, but the coins did not necessarily have to be produced in pairs. Maybe as someone suggested above, they always planned to issue this new set and just made some additional proofs.

    It would be a bad precedent to issue the RP separately, and it was not done in 2006 or 2011, but who knows at this point what will happen.

  42. art says

    Michael,
    I’ve re-read some of your older posts regarding the SF 2-coin set. One stated: “Each set includes one 2012-S Proof Silver Eagle and one 2012-S Reverse Proof Silver Eagle, both struck at the San Francisco Mint. Based on information available, it seems that both of these coins will be unique to the special offering and not available elsewhere”. Could you clarify what you meant by “based on information available”? Were you fooled like the rest of us?

  43. Jim_D says

    I feel the Mint used false advertising to sell the 75th sets. The wording was they were only going to be available for sale during the 4 week period and NO sales after. I’m a collector and I intended to keep my sets, but it’s the principle of the matter. The high price of the set was tolerated only because of the limited offering.

  44. j says

    This decision will surely limit future demand for “limited edition” sets. Why do i subject myself to this?

  45. stephen m. says

    Listen to everyone. What i hear is the fall of the ASE. There are just too many silver eagle offerings from the mint. Yes it makes the mint money but it makes me wonder how much longer we will have an ASE?

  46. Gary says

    the 2000 millenium(sp) set carries a nice premiuim. Maybe these will as well?
    Lets hope mintage is LOW!!

  47. kevin says

    Gary, we won’t really know until they sell out (probably in the year 2015) what the secondary market will think of them. I remember the 2008 dollar set stayed on sale for years.

  48. Samuel says

    the only fun for US coin collector is to collect a tiny mint mark. and now mint want to take away this thing as well.

  49. Louis says

    Good point, Samuel. I think this is part of why modern world coins are becoming more interesting in many ways than the overproduced and often bland stuff we issue. Yes, there are exceptions, but in general I see more dynamic issues coming out overseas these days.

  50. Richard W says

    I believe they did as they stated four weeks start to finish fulfillment to demand, This new offering is totally new.However I do believe a lot of us had the possibility of an additional SF ASE offering in the back of our minds.They the mint never stated they would not offer additional SF ASE singles or sets.looking back this entire wave was all set to go but not disclosed, had they disclosed the entire program it would have clouded the entire series.

  51. Louis says

    Not to hijack the discussion, but I came across an image today of an amazingly beautiful Italian coin that marks the 150th anniversary of the Lira. Its a 5 euro silver coin around a half ounce with a 7K mintage. It comes out in August. I am going to ask the owner of Royal Scandinavian Mint if he can get it.

  52. Wes says

    I don’t believe there was a need for all these special ASE coins from the mint this year. I don’t need a burnished S ASE for 2012. I got one of those last year in the 25th Anniversary set.

  53. Richard W says

    Just too much ,I’ve collected the ASE from day one and collect little else .Too many options all at once.Starting to look like the Golden Dollar series .Please go back to the basic series Proof and Burnished.

  54. ClevelandRocks says

    2012-S Reverse Proof ASE offered 11/8/12 release Andrew Luck / Stanford University 120th annaversary commemorative with papers discussing history of #1 draft picks from 1936-present.

  55. says

    Well, I’ll put in an OT comment too. I posted this on the Wolrld Mint News Blog, but no one has responded to it.

    2012 NZM Great White Shark coin with actual bite marks thru the coin. The pic you have seen shows seven bite marks, however, the final version of the coin will only have four bite marks. I know some of you, as well as myself, have pre-ordered these…and it’s still going to be an awesome coin…but it will be at least 4-6 weeks until it is available. I obtained this info from NZM last night.

  56. Don says

    The Mint loves to celebrate oddball anniversaries and uses them as an excuse to issue cutsey, unnecessary products such as this latest coin and currency set. Again, we are being deluged by too many Mint products. What’s that expression about killing the golden goose?

  57. Rob says

    Remember!
    Everyone who wants to get their two coin set graded!
    Don’t open the box!!!!!!!!!! I was one of those unfortunate souls’ who had someone open my box of 25th aniversary sets even though I explaned it to them in great detail.
    My dad said “I didn’t open any of the sets inside the shipping box just like you told me !”
    …. sigh……….
    I also think IKAIKA may have hit on a dirty little secret that the mint had already produced a larger quantity of the two coin sets than actually sold.
    Some things in this world never change, death, taxes and the mint screwing things up!

  58. says

    Regarding the Making History set with the 2012-S Proof Silver Eagle, I will repeat that I don’t think this will have much, if any effect on the SF 2 coin sets secondary market value. The sales of this set will be under 35,000, keeping the 2012-S regular proof under the 1994-p proof mintage. The only thing that would hurt the SF set would be if the reverse proof wre to be included in another set.

    As mentioned earlier, this happened in 2006 when it seemed that two coins were unique (2006-w burnished & 2006-p reverse proof). However, later in the year the Mint sold the 2006-w burnished coin separately. Did that adversely effect the secondary value of the 2006 20th Anniversary set…no it didn’t.

    Sales of the raw SF set on ebay are consistantly in the $225-$240 range.
    If you sell a set on ebay, $175 is your break even point. So if I were to sell 30 sets at $225, I would of made $1500($50 x 30 sets). However, I am sending my first batch of 16 sets in for grading..I don’t really know what they will sell for yet, but I could see a PF70 set selling for $325 easily…$110 for the regular proof, $215 for the reverse proof.

    I don’t understand the joy that some of you “flipper haters” envision by this new Mint issue.
    I ended up buying 30 of the SF sets…and while you may sit at home satisfied with your single purchase, I will sit at home with my one FREE Pf70 set and my one FREE set in OGP….along with SEVERAL hundred dollars in which I can buy some Perth, RCM and other coins.

    Don’t be mad at me for making a few bucks on Mint issued coins…as I am a collector first…but also a business man….I see coin collecting as a hobby first, but also as way to make some cash so that I can buy more coins that I enjoy.

    Anyway, I see a lot of posts on bashing flippers and dealers, etc (and really, I’m very, very, small time) and I think it’s time someone gave a different prospective.

    Bottom line, we ALL love collecting coins and have a lot in common.

  59. Tony W says

    I feel like Charlie Brown ……. j just kicked the football and the mint pulled it at the last second!

    FYI – I bought 1 Silver Eagle set and was very excited at the low numbers. I missed the 2006 set. I am not a flipper and I resent those that are standing up for the mint. I only had enough money to buy 1 and was very excited until now. Oh well! At least the silver has value

  60. guama says

    Not interested in this offering. I too love the AE series and do have the proof, bullion, and have ordered the 75th. I will buy the uncirculated one as well. But..enough is enough. Can someone please explain to me the reasoning behind a 2009 $5??? Not getting the reasoning for the excitement.

  61. KEITHSTER says

    Like I said before more tricks and complaints then the 25th. What’s a ASE have to do with 220 years of mint history I only count 26 years of them seems like your missing 194 years of mint history in this stupid lesson.Should of just used a old looking mint medal or a old pattern of a coin never made you must have some of those around with 220 years mint history. Why try to sell us something you just sold us. Thats using your dipstick jimmy! GOOD LUCK!

  62. gatortreke says

    I agree with Steve (@8:30 pm) wholeheartedly. I too like collect certain coins but am not averse to “flipping” some of the coin offerings when the opportunity arises so that I can purchase other collectible coins for keeps along the way. Those of us who do this take a chance that the coins we think will be good to flip will instead turn into flops. For the most part I’ve done well and in fact have missed some opportunities but I don’t feel flipping coins periodically in order to make more cash available to purchase coins we want to keep is an “evil” enterprise.

  63. KEITHSTER says

    It’s a $5 rebate for all the fence sitters who only wanted the one coin but at a lower price and with a rebate . Ya ya that’s it.

  64. Dan says

    I really have to see something FROM THE MINT to believe that it will contain an “S” proof

  65. Louis says

    Steve, I agree with your post, and that’s why in my articles I often gently chide what I call “purists” who act if coming out ahead is of no concern at all, though there are some people for whom that may be true.

    For 70 set values, I would track MCM’s prices. They are out of ER NGC sets now but they were up to about $300 when available and PCGS sets could be more. They have non-ER 70 NGC’s for the about same as people are paying for raw sets on e-Bay ($250)

    Earlier this week I had a piece published on coin investing strategies you may want to check out:
    http://www.coinweek.com/featured-news/knowledge-and-diversification-keys-to-successful-coin-investing/

  66. Broooster says

    All these ASE’s, all the same, except for a little mint mark. This is the reason I started collecting kookaburra’s, panda’s and kangaroo’s. Lay out you ASE collection, someone might go “wow”. Lay out a collection of coins with different designs, and you get a much better response. All the different designs have ppl looking. The world mints are doing a much better job than ours, imho. And on that note, I will continue to move more of my money their way as our mint keeps going down hill with their tricks, and piss poor quality control.

  67. Gary says

    Maybe if all the people that called and complained to the mint about not getting the 25th Anniversary Set can now call and complain about these offerings and then maybe next years 27th Silver Eagle Anniversary offering will be a 100k mintage with a 5 per household!!
    Now those were the good ole days!!

    Awesome job!! The mass millions always ruin it for the select 100k!

  68. Sigo Plapal says

    Is this how they interpreted their survey? Do they really think that we want a special edition set only to be diluted by…. the same coin in another special edition set? Ugh. Why bother? How out of touch can an organization get with its customers?
    BTW, I’m still waiting on them to make a palladium coin. Other than that, I’m done with these special edition sets for a while.

  69. Bos says

    How about an ASE reverse proof with an O mint mark! Or a CC mint mark?

    I am sure there is some kind of anniversary that could be celebrated. Umm,the 117th year anniversary of the closing of Carson City? The 103rd anniversary of the last minting at New Orleans?

    They would haul in museum equipment from the Smithsonian and press out the coins in the parking lot of Harrah’s!.

    Now those would get my attention. There would be such a demand that I am sure some of the overflow could be produced at West Point and San Francisco with (O) or (CC) virtual mint marks in green monster boxes. Of couse you would have to certify the entire monster box.

    More coins that we can’t even open the shipping box to look at, much less fondle. Geeze, give me a break.

  70. ClevelandRocks says

    Falling silver prices aren’t helping things either.
    When will silver hit $50?

  71. Louis says

    Thanks a lot, Steve. By the way, I am very interested in what seems to be a growing interest among American collectors in world coins.

    Anyway, since you seem to be a serious collector/investor what would you say is the rough breakdown between your U.S. vs. world coins? If anyone else wants to give me an estimate, please do.

  72. mrbeeg says

    I only have a few choice words for the Mint, and none of them are suitable for this respectable forum. This may be the final straw for my interest in US products.

  73. Ed D. says

    My current breakdown in terms of $ value is about 20% modern US Mint issued products, 79% pre 1965 US mint issued coins, and 1% modern non-US mint issues. But, that will be changing in favor of Canadian and Australian modern issues, beginning today.

    Right now, I’m pretty PO’d at the mint…they should have announced this second sales outlet for the 2012 S proof before the two-coin set went on sale. BTW, I am not a flipper. I just feel like the mint has done me wrong.

  74. PAUL H says

    My thought is this,
    many orders will be cancelled due to the fact that 1/2 the set is going to be a high produced product making the 150 a rediculous premium to pay for 1 unique coin. plus many orders will not happen when the mint goes to charge the credit card for the purchase of the coins and people will not have the funds available at the time of processing . this could drive the mintage down for the reverse proof and cause a slight premium on the one coin but the other will be worth its weight in silver. I for one am not enamored with the reverse-proofs to pay 125 for them & will be cancelling my orders. nothing here to be exited over just disapointment
    If I cannot cancel the orders I will cancel the credit card used to order.
    I am not interested in high mintage eagles . there are just to many of them to be had and with silver droping like a rock its time to stop buying and pick them up at the bottom when silver hits 14 an ounce next year

  75. Soapy says

    I ordered one SF set early and an additional set near the deadline. Now that the “S” coin is being offered in a new offering I’d only like to have one. Guessing I know the answer to the following question: Is it possible to return the second set “S” coin for credit and keep the second “Reverse” coin? Heh heh…..As if….

  76. EvilFlipper says

    Like I said. Not for flippers. Only the Perth and RCM seem to be offering much in the way of collectible, flipable, and precious metals. I’ll be patient. Something will come around…… Eventually.

  77. joe says

    Glad I canceled all the SF two-coin sets I had ordered. I had a hunch the Mint was going to do something like this. I will just pick the coins up in the aftermarket at a much reduced rate.

    By the way, is there any news on the high relief palladium coin?

  78. alvaro says

    Now the questions is what is the mint gonna do with the extra RP coins. The mint probably gonna offer a two set coin of RP in gold and silver to dump the extra RP silver eagles. 2012 s RP gold + 2012 s RP silver. That will kill the 75anniv. set. I hope I didnt gave the mint ideas lol.

  79. saucexx says

    Wow, first Perth now the US mint. I just don’t understand the thinking here. If they want to sell more coins include a uncirculated burnished “S” not a proof.

    Even if the set holds it value, I don’t see how you don’t take this as a kick in the teeth. It’s like they are TRYING to turn off their customers. We already paid a high premium relative to previous silver offerings and now they are trying to make our investments worth even less. They just removed the 2012 proof ASE for repricing at $60. But they expect that we’re going to pay $70-75 for an increasingly common “S” proof ASE? At this point most collectible ASE’s are essentially as valuable as plain bullion ASE’s.

    We all have breaking points, with Perth mine was the 5 oz dragon. If the Mint wants to encourage me to spend my money elsewhere than so be it.

  80. charles says

    Wow, the thought process of some of you guys cracks me up…you really do not have a clue.

  81. John says

    I may just have to cancel six of the fourteen 75th Ann. sets that I ordered. Eight were ordered on day one, the other six will ship in the second wave…. only time will tell.

    OT…

    Just received my 5 oz Chaco Culture, Awesome!

    For those that said it looks like a toilet bowl you need to check out the 5 oz version, there’s lots of detail that you just don’t get in the actual quarter.

    Also this is the best quality that I have received from the mint in the five oz’ers.

    In the past I order two and the returned one or both until I got something acceptable. This time I was short funds so I only ordered one, got a winner on the first try. SP70 for sure but it will remain in its OGP where it belongs.

    My only complaint about the 5 oz’ers is the denomination / obverse 25 cents! Would have made a nice $100 silver coin. Also I prefer the SP over the Bullion.

  82. Louis says

    @John-
    I agree on all your points. I got a nice Chaco this week too, and it definitely does not look like a jumbo toilet.

    On the SF sets, I’d suggest not getting too worked up just yet. It is disappointing, but let’s see what they do about the RP. As I said earlier, the SF coins could have been made separately. They do not have to make them in pairs (proof and RP) esp. if the plan all along was to issue the proof separately. But it’s the whole basis for the product and what is included that make so little sense.

    I think Steve may be right that these new sets will not sell that well anyway.

    Also, let’s not be too rash about Perth either. Yes, they overdid the dragons, and the 5 oz proof was marketed poorly, but if you want it, they are available from e-bay for about the same price. And Perth still makes some cool coins, cooler in fact than most of our stuff.

  83. VA Bob says

    Next years 2013, 151 Year US Mint Anniversary ASE Set will include a proof, a reverse proof, and a burnished variety. The set also comes with a bottle of Bacardi 151, to both commemorate the Anniversary year, and let you drown your sorrows when they re-release the coins again later in the year. The set will come in a lacquered, solid wood foot locker. The price is expected to be $495.95. No household limit.

    Seriously, I’ll get one MAH to add to the growing “Sucker for Completeness” section of my coin collection. The Mint does know it’s clientèle. Here’s hoping the fly-by customers save people like me, by not buying this stuff.

  84. T1 browserman says

    I visited Perth’s website earlier this year and the requirements to buy from them were extensive. Photo license, notary stamp etc. BUT I noticed in the corner that website orders soon to be available to U.S customers without all that PAPERWORK.

    I just registered today, received a customer # and free shipping on your first US order.

    So instead of this MAH offering I choose the last available $1 Diamond Jubilee 1 ounce silver coin with HM Elizabeth’s portrait for a little over $100 at 7.5K mintage.

    I used Paypal to check out rather than look for my credit cards.

    My question is how did those Aussies revamp their computer networking to accept credit cards, paypal, etc in a mere matter of months AND I AM STILL WAITING FOR THIS SO CALLED WEBSITE TO GO UP AND RUNNING IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ???????????????????????????????

    I have all the silver eagles except the ’95 W which came with the Gold bullion set only. I am keeping the two coin set on order but do not need another proof ‘S’ eagle.

    This M.A.H. does make for fun collecting or gift idea but numismatically speaking IMO it’s way off base.

    As one mentioned above STOP THE MADNESS !!!!!

  85. Louis says

    @T1- Enjoy your Perth order. You will be amazed at how they ship it by overnight or 2-day all the way from down under once the order is processed. I got one of those QE coins cheaper from a US company, but anyway it’s a nice coin you will like. A non-collecting friend of mine liked it so much he got one too.

    Even a smaller country like Slovakia has a sleek, well organized site with fair prices. I am right now ordering from them for the first time. And as Americans we pay less because no VAT taxes for us. One item I am getting is about 25 euros but costs $65 retail here, so I am saving quite a bit.

  86. Louis says

    If anyone else is turning 50 soon, or has a male friend who is, Slovakia has a cool 2-ounce silver medal with a naked woman!

  87. Louis says

    Sure, also if you go to the world mint news blog, Michael has a post about his experience with the Slovakian Mint (Mint Kreminca). It’s the second most recent post.

    For the 50th birthday medal- Just scroll down under this new products page for the 5/23/12 entry and see what you think. It will be 88 euros after they deduct the VAT but it’s two ounces of .999 silver and proof and I like both sides so I think it is worth it, and it’s something you won’t see elsewhere:
    http://mint.sk/nakup_novinky.php

  88. alvaro says

    Anybody had had an update on the SF set yet. Are they really shipping till the 27th.

  89. Dan says

    I am waiting for the end of the year 5-coin set containing the Bullion, Proof (W), Burnished (W), RP (S), and Burn (S). … Did I miss an ASE in this set?

  90. ClevelandRocks says

    Kind of like paying a lot to see a concert of your favorate band and then two weeks later, the band announces a bunch of new shows.

  91. jeff72 says

    Whooo-Hoo….For once I called it right and PASSED on the SF “minimal-future-value-set”!!! ….because of products like this!! ….and the next “SPECIAL” SE MINT THING”…..

    “NO LIMITED MINTAGE” to me means ….go collect somewhere else …which I have 🙂

  92. VABEACHBUM says

    I would have thought that 220 years, agreed to be another odd aniversary, would have garner a special issue from the Philly Mint – the one that, in its different versions, has been in service for 220 years. Supporting a comment made early in this thread, a special issue of one of the earliest coin designs would have been awesome!! Maybe for a future, random anniversary.

    Louis – Thanks for the heads up on the Slovakian 50 Coin. I will hit 50 next year, and my brother the year after. I’ll definitely take a look – with the thought of picking up two!!

    WRT to your general inquiry to the group about US and World Mint interests, I mostly focus on the US ASEs and varieties, as well as the US Gold Buffaloes and the varieties. I’ll add the occassional Commemorative Issue or the unique, one-of issue if it catches my interest.

    Out in the world, I’ve done my best to follow the different High Relief issues from multiple mints, and this is turning into a very nice “type” collection. I also have an interest in the Royal Australian Mint’s “Kangaroo at Sunset” program begun in 2009. Their 2012 issues have just hit the market. However, most of my world mint efforts over the past 8 years have been in pursuit of the 1 oz Ag, 10 Yuan China Panda Coins. Like Brooster, I enjoy the series and the fact that the design is changing every year. The artistry and level of detail found in these coins has improved exponentially since 2000. Similarly, the demand for and the value of the earlier issues (’89 to 2000), having limited numbers in 2 to 3 varieties, continue to climb with each passing year, but especially as China continues to open the PM markets to its citizens and they attempt to create their own, complete Panda sets. Very dynamic and fun to watch.

    T1 – not sure what you ran into at the Perth Mint website. When I created my account and made my first purchases some two years ago, all I had to do was register. Agree though, their site is very well managed and their customer support staff is top-notch.

    Dan – 6 coin set: Bullion (S) and Bullion (W)!!

    Cleveland – LMFAO!! Speaking from my own experience, I was not happy about the 2nd and 3rd versions of the Eagles Farewell Tour, followed closely by their 10 stop (We Still Have Bills) Reunion Tour!!

  93. Skidtrek says

    This new offering will probably sell very well. Now someone can get a 2012 Silver proof and NOT have to spend $150 to get it. I bet the sales figures will rival the San Fran 2012 Set in production. 🙁

  94. Samuel says

    yes. panda is the way to go. it has a 30-year history. even better, they have different designs every year. this yr, the mintage will be increased. i have some 1oz ones, i begin to look at the 5oz ones.

  95. Jim says

    goes back to 1984. After selling only proof 3 coin sets – 2 silver $ and gold W $10.00 – the mint sent out solicitation to those who bought the proof set – offering a 3 coin uncirculated set – 2 “P” dollars and “W” $10 gold. Included was the phrase – “after this offer, the only way you may be able to get the uncirculated gold will be to buy the 6 coin set”. Of course, the uncirculated gold was then offered individually through their dealer network.

    I still have the lliterature.

  96. says

    On the SF sets, I’d suggest not getting too worked up just yet. It is disappointing, but let’s see what they do about the RP.

    Louis, I agree here. I’m not too upset about this just yet.

    Also, let’s not be too rash about Perth either. Yes, they overdid the dragons, and the 5 oz proof was marketed poorly, but if you want it, they are available from e-bay for about the same price. And Perth still makes some cool coins, cooler in fact than most of our stuff.

    And I also agree here! The dragons did not really start to decline until the most recent colored releases. They have a ton of coin series that command decent premiums on the secondary markets, such as the Dragons of Legend (my personal favorite). I’m sure the core products for the 2013 snakes will also be fairly lucrative.

    Out in the world, I’ve done my best to follow the different High Relief issues from multiple mints, and this is turning into a very nice “type” collection.

    VABB, I’ve started doing this with high relief coins too. I’ve almost got all the Perth high relief coins. I just received Sydney Cove last week. Now I just need to find the 2010 kangaroo.

  97. Jim B says

    I love collecting US coins, but these SE’s are getting a lil boring. I to have been getting silver pandas and like that they change from yr. to yr. Just wish I would have started collecting them long ago. They sure have been out performing our SE.
    To me this will be just another slap to the collector/investors face by the mint if they put a pr-s SE in this yet another new set. I have seen other posts that say we may be better off buying on second market. I have been getting some nice back dated commorative stuff and recent stuff for a decent price.Iike a 2010 pcgs ms70 boy scout 50.00, 09 pcgs pr69 lincoln 47.00, 1997 pcgs pr69 jackie robinson 56.00, 2000 ngc ms69 Lief Ericson 69.00. And the list goes on.
    I may keep my 1 SF set order but have thoughts of letting it go along with my whole SE collection. But for sure will not get this coin currency set. After the way the MInt delt with the 25th set I have had a bad tast in my mouth about there not being intouch with the true collector. To me they are just pushing way 2 much stuff at us. Happy coin hunting to all.

  98. ABC says

    Wait a minute… Why isn’t anyone here putting the blame on the current director of the mint? If Moy was still the director, a lot of people would point their fingers at him for what is happening. Gosh…, I wonder why there’s such a double standard???

  99. VABEACHBUM says

    C.O. Glad to see you acquired the Sydney Cove Medal. Definitely a nice piece and a must have for an HR set. Some time mid last week, I saw a 2010 HR Kangaroo in NGC MS 70 sell for less than $200. A decent price and slightly below average for that coin in that condition. I’m also shopping for some of the Canadian Issues like the 2008 Poppy and the 2012 Queen’s Jubilee. Still debating on the Three Princes – Charles, William and Harry. My two, wish-list HR’s include the 2010 Isle of Man “Angel” and the Ascension Islands “Diamond Jubilee,” the latter of which I find underwhelming and overpriced on the secondary market.

    Samuel – for the 2012 5 ounce Silver Pandas, shop for bargains on the Singapore Medal (2,500 units), the Gold Panda Coin 30th Anny (30,000 units), and the upcoming 2012 Philadelphia ANA Panda Medal (est 2,500 units). Historically, the different, limited edition coin show medals have great eye appeal and demonstrate a consistent ROI over the long haul.

  100. chris says

    ABC :

    The answer is simple : most of the comments here are not really about
    coin collecting. This has become a forum for venting frustrations about
    perceived loss of profit. Then there is the element of personal preconceptions …

  101. Samuel says

    VABB, i am aware of the 5oz SG and next month ANA medal. about a couple of months ago, after i did research about the 5oz SG medal, i made the decision in the morning, then when i tried to place the order in the afternoon, the price was increased form $595 to $695. can u believe it? just in several hours. since then the price stays at $695 and it is still available. and the next ANA medal, in my view, is little bit ugly. i may pass it. past 5oz medals have good return but need time.
    i just picked up an 2011 5oz for $400, bad quality, but i think worth the money.
    for 2012 5oz, since the mintage increases form 20K to 50K, the price decreases to $400, comparing to past yrs. next month i m going to have a business trip to china, and i heard the 2012 5oz sells for below $300 there. so, i will see what i can pick up there.

  102. Louis says

    VAB- Thanks for your comments. I figure one only reaches the half-century mark once, so why not mark it with something that has intrinsic value and is very attractive. I was pleased with the Slovakian Mint site and offerings. Buying from them is a nice way to avoid the middleman.

    I appreciate you sharing your coin collecting interests. I think most American collectors still mostly buy American, but there is an increasing number of us who are looking to foreign mints too. I also collect both U.S. and foreign. Within foreign my interests are Canada, Mexico, Australia, and a couple other countries. In fact, I am trying to get moving on a book about the foreign stuff, but it’s been hard to find the time to write with everything else going on.

    I have never seen the Sunset Kangaroos. They seem to be priced high, but I should check them out. I don’t have any HR Kangs either, but am considering the 2012 from Uber Coins. For those who have the 2011 and 2012 issues, which do you think looks nicer?

    Do you or anyone else, maybe Samuel, know where to get the ANA Panda set? Will it only be sold at the show?

  103. Samuel says

    Louis, it will be sold at the show, and also pandaamerica will have it. panda america has all major chinese releases, but just expensive. my experience abt the SG medal made me think twice before buying from them. i bought a couple of libertard sets from them recently, they r on the way.

  104. Louis says

    Thanks, Samuel. I got the Libertad set from them too, then on Monday I got an offer from another dealer to get it for $10 less. But considering they are going for a lot more on e-Bay, I think we got a fair deal.

  105. hi ho silver says

    Steve where did you pre order the great white shark coin ? The NZM just says comming soon.

  106. Gary says

    @Chris…
    its not about loss or profit…its about products that are overminted and overpriced….its not a collectable if everyone in the universe has oneor can get one!!

  107. Samuel says

    i think this paper set will sell well, because people can get a S pf, and it is still low mintage.

    will NGC change the submission policy? originally only capsule is needed, now the whole sealed brown box?

  108. says

    @ hi ho silver

    You can pre-order them at ubercoins.com They are a divsion of Scotsdale Gold & Silver located in Arizona.

  109. says

    Michael, what happened to the catagories by month? It’s hard to know which topic is the most current the way it is now….or am I missing something?

  110. Shutter says

    Why isn’t anyone here putting the blame on the current director of the mint?Why isn’t anyone here putting the blame on the current director of the mint?

    Because there isn’t one. Peterson is only Deputy Director. The post has remained unfilled since Moy left a year and a half ago.

  111. VABEACHBUM says

    @ Chris – I, too, agree w/ Gary in that I’m not in it for profit or loss. For me, collecting will always be about what I like and can afford, so I tend to disagree about the unlimited population comment. Other times, thought, it’s about the thrill of the hunt; the challenge of finding that rarity and adding it to my collection.

    What I do find very frustrating with our US Mint is that they continue to be consistent with the INCONSISTENCY of their marketing, manufacturing, quality and so on. “This limited edition coin will only be available for a short period of time, until we make it available in a similar, limited edition product for another short period of time.”

    @Louis – I got started on the Kangaroo at Sunset coins in 2010. I cannot remember specifically, but they either had been nominated as or selected for the CoY. Agree that they are a little overpriced from the RAM and on the secondary market, but I am fascinated by the simplicity of the design and how well it captures the stark, harsh realities of the Australian Outback. Depending on the year, the silver coin series includes 1 oz PR and UNC varieties as well as the 1/5 oz miniature PR coin. Different years also were produced at different RAM facilities; the F12 and the F15 have been mentioned specifically. The 1/5 oz Gold versions are extremely rare, being sold annually through an RAM Lottery, and highly overpriced on the Secondary.

    WRT to the Perth HR Kangaroos, the first year of issue, 2010, portrays the two boxing kangaroos and is, by far, the best. IMO, 2011 and 2012 are a toss-up, although I do tend to favor the new 2012 issue a little bit more.

  112. Mint News Blog says

    Steve,

    I moved the monthly archives to the left sidebar underneath the Recent Posts. I also changed it to a drop down menu. I thought it was getting too cluttered listing out 30+ months.

  113. Samuel says

    true! the 2010 HR kangaroo is the best. u buy one kangaroo and get one free. while on 2011 and 12, there is only 1 kangaroo there.

  114. chris says

    Hmm, lets see,

    Perth mint 5 Oz “dragon” : $500 ( boutique coin / greatly hyped – rush to buy )

    USMint 5 Oz P ATB : $204 ( collectible coin / low mintage – rush to criticize )

    my choice : 5 Oz ATB – I love the national parks, I have been to many of them

  115. chris says

    I should add I have seen the Grand Canyon. I hiked from the north rim to the south rim, I also rode my bike to the Grand Canyon from Colorado,
    I could see the canyons, touch the rocks, smell the pines.

    I have yet to see, touch, and smell a grand dragon, even a fire breathing
    one shown on the coins.

  116. Kraw says

    @Chris I totally agree on your point about the ATB. Personally I like those 5 ozers and I hope the Mint doesn’t cancel them. The uncirculated version is my favorite thing they have come out with in years. After seeing the anual silver proof set version of the Hawaii quarter, I really wish they did a standard proof version of the 5oz with the frosted cameo. What a great looking coin!

    These ASE’s have gone nuts. But with that said a 5 oz. ASE would be really nice.

  117. Jon in CT says

    The secondary market for this MAH set could be interesting since each set will be unique because each includes a $5 bill with a unique serial number. I envision that a set which includes a $5 bill with an interesting serial number will command a higher premium, regardless of the state of the associated ASE coin. All bills will begin with the sequence ‘150’ so the remaining five digits will be important. I imagine premiums will be paid for a set with a bill whose last five digits contain only a single non-zero value or one populated with “lucky” numbers (7s or 8s) or numbers in strict numeric order.

  118. ABC says

    So the acting deputy director gets a free pass then? Who are we supposed to blame? Obviously someone’s in charge over at the mint that we can blame for what’s going on.

  119. Val says

    I thought about the additional San Frisco Sliver Eagle offering by the Mint above and beyond the 251,300 sets that were sold during the 4 week period that ended on July 5 and I cancelled my order. I cancelled because, in my eyes, the Mint changed the terms of the deal with its new offering and the possibility that there could be other offerings of these two coins in the future. I thought initially that the price of $150 was somewhat on the high side, but I ordered 5 sets because I thought the set would be unique, and that’s the way I hope it works out for the rest of you who bought this offering. As for me, I will be more careful regardings my expectations of the Mint.

  120. george glazener says

    How many of you guys are probably going to cancel some part of your pending orders for the 75th ASE-S 2-coin set? I ordered three, and am considering deleting one of them.

  121. VA Bob says

    George – I only ordered two, it hope that one or both will be in nice shape. Still taking a chance, but I never really wanted more than that to begin with. No need for a closet full of common stuff. The “Sucker for Completeness” section of the VA Bob Coin Emporium hopeful gets a good example, plus one for insurance. Will only do one of the MAH though, good or bad, for the “Oddities” section of the collection.

  122. guama says

    I have 4 SF on order…one for each grandchild & 2 more for future offspring from the other daughter. Love the coins…even if they are not unique, the set will be a nice display. It was a bit disappointing that the mintage will be an add on, but not selling the ones I have.

  123. saucexx says

    CO,

    Funny the 2010 HR is also the last one that I need. I’ve been keeping an eye out for a good deal and will get my hands on one shortly.

    As far as Perth goes, I’m done in the sense of spending endlessly on their expensive products. I’m into the Dragons so I’ll finish those and I really like the HR coins. Beyond that I’m just not going to waste anymore time or money. At the end of the day most of their products are not going to hold their value IMO. And since they have high premiums to start with I’m going to look elsewhere. BTW I did get the 5oz Dragon online, my feelings about NYM haven’t changed.

    Louis, I collect both modern US and world coins. I like the AtB 5ozers, select gold & silver commemoratives and burnished and RP ASE’s. World coins include Britannias, the HR’s, lunar and select commemoratives. I’m looking into Pandas and Libertads too but I haven’t committed much yet. I also collect early commemoratives, CC Morgan’s and random early coinage that will hopefully one day evolve into full sets.

    For the record I ordered multiple sets of the 75th set and I’m still debating whether to cancel or not. AFAIC I think the mint’s move with releasing the MAH set was bush league.

  124. Mercury says

    This is a sad day in US Mint history! I was under the impression that the 2012 San Francisco Set was an apology to those who had missed out on purchasing the five-coin 2011 American Eagle 25th Anniversary Silver Coin sets. This decision to continue to distribute the 2012 San Francisco Proof coins is definitely not even any sort of an apology. Rather, what’s we really see happening in this case, is that the Mint, with a commanding effort, has just “add insult to injury” by posting a big “L” on the foreheads of those who lost out in 2011, … All hope for recouping what’s left of the transient value of the 2012 San Francisco Set will all but disappear. What was the point of even putting a counter on the 2012 San Francisco Set except to bait, and then switch them? As for as the US Mint, their position is that a sucker is born every minute, and most of them are coin collectors.

  125. Shutter says

    So the acting deputy director gets a free pass then? Who are we supposed to blame?

    If it helps you, blame his boss.

  126. DCDave says

    Call the Mint to complain, I did and I think they were not aware of our collective dissatisfaction of the additional S offering. If enough call they may change their mind and offer the burnished S instead.
    1-800-USA-MINT

  127. Richard W says

    I’ve never flipped,just collect a bit of the luster has been removed from the SF Eagle,but the mint never promised you a modern rarity,and i believe the execution was okay.Let see how the delivery goes and how quality is controlled.To me the 25 th set was disapointing, i saw planchet defects with technology as today this should be a no brainer.I’m split i have loved this series but the push by the gov to saturate the market is getting the best of me.My blog is scrambled back and forth but that is a reflection of the spin.I’m in for two sets and plan to hold.The secondary market and negative press and you entitled children have given this offering a negative oh yes the mint is also responsible.

  128. Ikaika says

    @ DCDave

    I suspect the coins for the 75th anniversary SF set have been produced already. As mentioned earlier in this blog, I think what happened was the sales for the set came below what the mint expected and for this reason they came up with this AMH set. What kind of year is 220? How about the $5 note from 2009? Fishy not?

  129. Mercury says

    They can have their set and the paper it’s printed on!! I’m through wit yuh!!!! Fool me once shame on me, fool me twice and I am a fool. We as coin collectors have got to get our head out from between our legs. We asked for it, and now we go it. So is no mintage limits a good or a bad thing. I quit!!! Till we figure it out, I’m going to start collecting rocks instead… you wont find two of those that are identical. Besides 2013 is an unlucky number anyway. And I can’t afford to get any unluckier. I repeat… I give up. US Mint, I win, you lose.

  130. Jim_D says

    Why can’t the BOE make the date on the $5 bill, 2012? They can arbitrarily choose the first 3 digits of the serial number, why not the date? Now you have something unique.

  131. Gary says

    Yeah….everybody call and complain to the US Mint AGAIN!!! It worked last year and now they are flooding the market with 2012 silver eagles!!

    Does everybody have the 2012 S silver eagles now? Hopefully everyone has a fair chance to get one of these extremely rare silver eagles!! Should be one more offering coming soon with a reverse proof S silver eagle…just in case somebody wasnt able to get through in that small window!!

    @ABC…we the consumers are to blame…well some of us anyway!

  132. Louis says

    First of all, even when I don’t agree with you guys and gals, I do enjoy reading what you have to say. I esp. enjoyed Saucy’s comment about needing to meet his ex-wife.

    As far as the acting director, which I believe is his actual title for what that’s worth, these decisions are probably made further down the chain of command, but I do think it would help to have an actual director. Moy would not have jerked us around like this, right?

    Saucexx- Thanks for sharing your collecting interests. I really recommend the Libertads. Start with a set of the 1 oz. BU coins. There are a few tough dates with low mintages (under 100K), but most are still pretty cheap. 1998 is the tough one. You get two basic designs, and quality on them varies, so look for nice ones. Then, if you can, check out the fractionals and the proofs. The proofs esp. 2 oz and 5 oz. are amazing. Gorgeous and some super low mintages, many are sleepers. Crap, I better not give away my whole book, or you guys won’t buy it! Hah! Hah!

    Anywho, as they say in Indiana, I have three SF sets in and am considering cancelling the 3rd, but there is no hurry as the third is on the slow boat from China. Wait and see how this thing plays out.

  133. says

    Don’t feel so bad. Some of the set buyers may do better than they think. NGC will provide the special set slab to raise the price for label collector’s. And, those that want the set to be considered more rare may make out too. I for one am cancelling my order for the set. I’m sure I’m not the only one. The final sales figure of 251,000+ is about to be reduced. And, I just saved $149.

  134. KEITHSTER says

    I for one am not buying this they made to many thing.It was made to order not made then order.I’m going to have to with charles on this one. Even though he may a mint boss with insider info.As said before it’s in the mints and our best intrest to make this thing work for the best.Don’t get all this mint bashing their just people doing the people’s work making billions of coins so we can have some pocket change.Think you can do better get a job at the mint. I know goverment bashing firsthand it’s a thankless job by most but I get thanked every day by all the veterans I serve.It’s what has kept me comming back each day for the last 31 years THANKS GUYS don’t care what the other people say. Proud to serve those who served. where would we be without government think about it.So thanks mint you’re doing a fine to extra fine job keep up the good works. Don’t let the peep’s get you down . good luck to all$

  135. saucexx says

    Louis,

    Thanks for the thoughts on the Libertads. I need to replenish the bank account so I can start picking more up. IMO the Britannias are a comparable product. With the change to .999 silver from .9584, I think the they have a bright future.

    Most of my 75th orders were from the last day so I’m going to take my time before I decide to cancel them outright. BTW I wonder if the more we cancel the likelihood of another RP issue increases?

  136. alvaro says

    The mint dont care about resale values of the coins they make. They just want to sell as much as they can for their profit not yours guys. They dont care about flippers. Theres nothing in it for the mint if you make a profit on the coins in the future. For the mint is just about making a profit not about low mintage collectable coins that will mean less money for them and more money for flippers. The mint aint in that bussiness get real people. So when you guys call the mint complaining about coin offerings they probably say what the hell are you talking about , we sell coins dude what are you talking about for us not to sell a product. Lol go to Walmart and ask them not to sell more Walmart brand Levis pants so youres will be rare and valuable they will kick you out. Lol

  137. dan says

    Louis

    This has gotten a bit wordy as I have worked on it and amended it a few times this week as others have identified sets, so bear with me. First I would like to say that I have never sold a coin and hopefully will be fortunate enough to never have to so its not about coin value appreciation, but just coin appreciation. Anyway, back on point. Not wanting to list item by item I will just touch on a few highlights but I would say that in the last 2-3 years I have gone from 90% US mint to probably a 50-50 mix now in monetary value, but have purchased more pieces from outside the US. Lately Canada has really caught my attention. I was fortunate to grab the Algonquin moon collection subscription, also grabbed the set of seven subscription. I am also collecting their offerings on the War of 1812. So far I like the coins and the mintages ,and since I love history, it is a plus. In addition I enjoy their 20 for 20 offerings, when was the last time the us mint thru their customers a bone, I even get free shipping to boot.

    Moving right along, Austria recently put out a set which I believe is still available, its Tales and Legends. I am 4th generation American born of Austrian and Irish descent, so I was thrilled when they put out there Tales and Legends set last year. Some of the stories were told to me as a kid so they had more meaning to me than to others ( I wont say how old I am ), and the coins have some great detail. Take a look at their Home is where the Heart Is coin which is a new offering, great detail to me. Have grabbed a few Irish coins over the years also. Waiting for the third and final coin of the “animals of Irish Coinage” which is the hound, already have the first two being the Horse and Salmon.

    Next there is the Australian Products. I love the kangaroo at sunset group for its simplicity and its crisp and cleanness (VABEACHBUM beat me to it on this one). I have also collected a few kookaburra along the way, the most recent one shaped like the country. Have picked here and there on some of the other Perth offerings, The USS Constitution, it’s a Shame Tuvalu had to honor it and not the US

    Thanks to a great write up by Gabriel Lief Bellman recently on this blog, I started following the libertads and just this week made my first purchase of the 30th anniversary set and am anxiously awaiting their delivery today I am looking to add other sets as I find them. Basically there is a lot out there, cant buy it all but I like being one of 5,000 as opposed to 1 in 5,000,000. Someone in this blog said recently that collecting to him was not having something everyone else has, I concur as long as I like it..

  138. george glazener says

    Given that we all seem to agree the MINT likely over-produced the coins for the 75th Anniversary set, and that we’re now seeing the extra Proofs being re-packaged into this MAH set, it’s likely there are thousands of unsold reverse proofs sitting in storage too. I think it’s a good bet that we’ll see them offered in some neat & nifty set later this year, just in time for Christmas. They’ll package the Reverse Proof coin with a Ten Dollar Bill celebrating the 255th birthday of Alexander Hamilton & sell it for $99.95. You heard it here first.

  139. jeff72 says

    The reality is ….US Mint collectibility died with the 25th SE Anniversary Set….from here on out …”minted to order” and “we’re-back-and-repackaged” .

    …..the new Mint norm

    now about those PROOF Libertads…..2011 last year for fractionals? …cool

  140. fja1 says

    This was a very disingenuous move on the Mint’s part. They led collectors to believe that this was a truly honest attempt to make up for the 25th Anniversary ASE debacle. I am cancelling at least half of what was ordered.
    I also responded to their survey on their website and let them know that they are no longer trustworthy and downright deceitful to their customers.

  141. tartop says

    Sounds like the coin is going to look like a walking liberty Half Dollar the way I read it. “The tails (reverse) of the American Eagle Silver Coin features a design reminiscent of the heraldic eagles seen on some of our country’s earliest coins”

    Maybe not but would look nice…

    And the back of the $5.00 Note would look nice if it was the same as they mention “The Lincoln Memorial was first featured on the Series 1928 $5 note…. ”

    I guess they should be more clear and also show pictures of what is included in this set….

    This 2012 American Eagle Silver Proof Coin not only honors the artistry and design of our Nation’s coins, but also honors the heritage of coin production at the United States Mint at San Francisco. This modern rendition of sculptor Adolph A. Weinman’s magnificent “Walking Liberty” design was originally prepared for the Nation’s circulating half-dollar in 1916. In tribute to his artistry, Weinman’s Walking Liberty design was adapted for the heads (obverse) design of the American Eagle Silver Coin. The design features the full-length figure of Liberty in stride, enveloped in folds of the flag with branches of laurel and oak in her hand. “The tails (reverse) of the American Eagle Silver Coin features a design reminiscent of the heraldic eagles seen on some of our country’s earliest coins”

  142. says

    NGC updated SF set submissions instructions:

    Remove the coins from the US Mint packaging and submit them raw in the capsules. Do not send the Mint packaging.
    IMPORTANT UPDATE: To receive the SAN FRANCISCO EAGLE SET pedigree, the Proof and Reverse Proof 2012-S Silver Eagles must be received in equal numbers on the same submission form. If the Proof 2012-S Silver Eagles are submitted without an equal or higher number of Reverse Proof 2012-S Silver Eagles, they will NOT be eligible for the special pedigree. All Reverse Proof 2012-S Silver Eagles will receive the pedigree by default.

  143. Louis says

    Dan,
    Thanks a lot for sharing your collecting interests and recent purchases. I have been picking up many of the same coins. I have always liked the Libertads but just got a coin here and there. Now I am hooked on them, and have decided to make that a specialization. There are some coins in different sizes, or in gold, that have mintages in the hundreds, yet still sell for a reasonable amount.

  144. kevin says

    Im surprised NGC isnt requiring sealed packages again, I guess they really hated the dealing with all the A25 packaging – and there are 2.5 times more of these sets, so they are willing to allow cherry picking to avoid all the trouble! It will work out better for everyone that way though.

  145. Steve says

    I don’t get it. For all the bad news regarding this two coin set, people are bidding on ebay for up to $216 for this set. I have a couple of questions. 1) Why are people so lazy that they wait until the coin is on ebay before they buy it rather than buy it direct from the mint and save $65 or more. (perhaps there is no answer to this) 2) If this set is a bust due to the mints mismanagement of the SF proof coin why is the bidding so high? Are reverse proofs that valuable? Just sitting here pondering if I should cancel my order with the mint.

  146. hi ho silver says

    Late 2006 I was telling everyone I knew about this new RP. I didn’t even know how it was gonna look but no one seemed to care. Some of these so called dealers I think don’t care untill they show up on the grey bid sheet. That’s just my thought Steve. I think once in hand maybe $250-$275 OGP.

  147. TomP says

    Steve,

    When did you order the S.F. set and what did you guess the final mintage number tally would be? If you ordered on day one and estimated the final total would be 300,000, then don’t cancel your order if you guess the new product won’t exceed 50,000. The total of the ‘S’ proof will be the same as what you guessed at the time of purchase (minus everybody’s cancellations). Anger at the Mint is another matter.
    I ordered on the first day 5 sets (1 each for the 2 grandkids, 1 for my son and his wife, 1 for my wife and 1 for my wife and I – there’s hers and there’s ours). Since I didn’t guess any final tally, I’m still happy with the set purchase for the sake of the coins themselves. Plus in the future they will have some value if not an appreciation, more so than other gifts I could have given.

  148. JBK says

    I just reviewed the mint’s online listing for the two-coin SF set and it says that it will only be available from 6/7 through 7/5, and the status shows as “sold out”. Under the coin specifications, it says for each coin that mintage will be “to demand”.

    Taking all of this together, I do not feel that the mint can legitimately/legally mint more coins for another set. The listing did not state that the 2-coin packaging would be produced “to demand”, but that the mintage of the individual coins would be “to demand” in conjunction with that set.

    Anyone up for a class-action lawsuit?

  149. Samuel says

    Steve, i think the people who buy at ebay, because, either usmint does not ship to their country, or they dont have a credit card.

  150. hi ho silver says

    Bottom line : You wanna use your money for something else,cancel your order.

  151. JBK says

    I only bought three with the intention of keeping two (at least), so I do not stand to lose much either way. I also think the RP will make the set worth a premium based on the value of 2006 set with the same mintage. I am just afraid of this absurd precedent.

  152. hi ho silver says

    OT But I’m still wondering why someone would kill people @ a batman movie

  153. RLP says

    Betrayed….

    A disclaimer for “errors & omissions” can be a legitimate explanation for mistakes, deliberate omission is deceitful. Hindsight would suggest the SF 2 coin “special” set would have been more appropriately introduced via a “Paid Time” TV sales pitch. One expects substantial hype from the TV venue, didn’t expect the US Mint to resort to like tactics. In the beginning there were a number of positives about the SF offer, but the “bait and switch” MAH offering negated those for me by contradicting the “special” connotation originally implied.

  154. RLP says

    MAH with a burnished 2012 ASE “S” mint would have made all the difference creditability wise, at least in my opinion vs. the set’s inclusion of the “S” proof.

  155. Don says

    Let’s face it: the Mint can offer any type of ridiculus, meaningless product such as this coin and currency set and there will always be customers who are taken in and have to get one.. One poster on this site is actually excited about the sequence of numbers after the 150 on the five dollar bill and the prospect that a premium on the set will result. How can anyone have any enthusiasm at all over this concocted set?

  156. MarkInFlorida says

    One way to avoid these surprises is for someone in the numismatic press to make Freedom of Information Act requests every month or so asking about products in development, planned for release, etc. I once did it with the post office for an upcoming souvenir sheet, asking the planned printing and when they said 2 million I knew it wasn’t worth buying in quantity.

    I don’t know if they have any kind of exemption for all or part of their plans but I wouldn’t think so. It’s not national security. I think when the PO tried to keep info secret a lawyer/collector sued and won.

    Michael, have you or do you know of anyone who has tried FOIA requests from the Mint?

  157. Don says

    The title of this coin and currency set says it all: “Making American History”. I guess a group of individuals at the mint brainstormed a way to dump the surplus 2012 s proofs by creating their own version of American History and packaging it to willing buyers.

  158. RLP says

    The Mint used wording and actions that set a perception that the SF 2 coin set was “special” due to the “S” mint marked “proofs”. While they clearly stated the mintage volume would not be limited in actual quantity, it was implied by the short order window and somewhat further reinforced by the daily tally counter. The “Sold Out” status with the counter at 250,302 sets was interpreted by many to represent the overall production of these two particular coins. Low and behold within a couple of weeks the community learns the “S” standard proof will be included in the MAH set. It seems doubtful that the MAH offer was created and launched in such a short time frame. As such one might think this information was deliberately omitted, and that buyers of the SF coin set might have made a different decision had they known. What collect-ability and value impacts will come of the additional coins issued remain to be seen. IMHO the Mint unfairly represented the SF coin set by not disclosing that other offerings could/would contain some or all of the SF “S” proofs AND still haven’t in the catalog.

    Two positives to be mentioned:
    One can still cancel their SF orders if they wish.
    AND
    at least some mint official confirmed to Michael and Louis before the7/27 SF set shipments begin, that the MAH set will contain a “S” standard proof.

  159. Gary says

    Basically if you complained about the 2011 25th Anniversary Set…you cant complain about this….The mint listened to your complaints…so enjoy your 2012 Anniversary Sets…enjoy!

  160. Louis says

    I sent a suggestion today that the Mint announce whether they plan to issue the RP coin separately. We will see if I get a response. If someone in the numismatic press bombarded them with FOIA requests, 1.) they would probably not get an answer citing this or that reg and 2.) they would never share anything else with you. The Mint has a lot of latitude that regular gov’t agencies don’t have
    because it receives no taxpayer funding. It is really a quasi-gov’t. agency. After the fact, one could probably use a FOIA to get some info., but not before they take an action. At least that is what I think would be the case.

  161. KEITHSTER says

    Come on now get real no one here knows that they are going to make even one extra S proof. Why would they surely they don’t have to they know we all ordered too many the big boys the dealers the flips you me the girl down the street.And they also know of all the plans to cherry pick and return the rest the fake orders the cancellations the not enough money orders ect.What did you expect them to do with all them coins throw them away melt them feed them to the hungry childrens.Who’s to blame here the mint or all of us.Once you send them back or cancell they become the mints property to do with as they please,just as the ones you keep are yours to do with as you will.The mints just dealing with our not holding up are part of this deal and some of the trickery of some greedy peoples. So get over it I’m sure they’ll make all the ASE’s you wished the had put in this new set ASAP.but there not what you ordered and plan to return back to them now is it. good luck to all.

  162. Louis says

    Keithster, No sure what your point is. Remember there is a 7 day return policy. But most coins will look close to perfect. I don’t expect a lot of returns and don’t think that is the issue. The point is how many people will cancel because the mintage has changed and from what I can tell quite a lot are cancelling. I may cancel one of my 3 sets.

  163. Don says

    All of the anticipated cancellations of the 2012 S sets should provide the Mint with plenty of regular proof coins to dump into this so-called “Making American History” set. Therefore, the mintage total of these regular proofs shouldn’t increase significantly because there won’t be much demand for this MAH set.

  164. hi ho silver says

    Your right on the money Don !! I still got 5 ounces of silver with no demand in my 2006 and 2011 ann sets, but the 3 that are in high demand make the set.

  165. KEITHSTER says

    Point is lets say you pull a wild number out of your hat lets say maybe 251,302 well then BOOM there they are that didn’t take long thank’s guys have a good weekend.Now on monday when your number chrunchers get back to work and go in process wait what are all these orders for 999 with bad cc #’s some joker being funny or the big spikes in the orders not the mom and pop shops no the big boys ordering as many as they could won’t take them 21 days to pick out the 70’s that they want ya 3 shipping dates 3 differant 7 day windows how many you think they’ll return? Don’t think they want the lower grade stuff sitting therefor years what with the QA. guy on VAC. and all.AS for yesterday and this am; YA I may have had a few too many hours of work that is after 8 hours on my day job driving our veterans to where they got to go then a 1/2 hr. to get to my pt.second job of another 6hrs.So ya it may have been a few to many but it should’nt have had to much affect on my post.And your 3am is my 2am. you’ll must be eastcoasters,You do have to read between the lines om my posts sorry but if every one got my point that might not be a goodthing also.but hey good luck to all?

  166. saucexx says

    First, there’s no way the MAH set wasn’t being planned around the same time as the 75th set planning. They didn’t dream this up, plan it, design it, market it all within a few days after the 5th of July. They KNEW while they were selling the 75th set what they were going to do.

    Two, if they had a surplus of coins left over from unsold 75th sets, then we wouldn’t be waiting until October to get our orders (my feeling is we don’t wait that long anyway). If they had all of the coins minted why would they wait to ship?

    Three, assuming everything was minted and now the mint is sitting on surplus sets and all of the prior assumptions are incorrect. That means there are surplus RP’s in addition to “S” proofs. If they panicked and came up with the MAH to get rid of the proofs, you should expect a RP offering too.

    To all of those who think the MAH set won’t sell, I wouldn’t be so sure. There’s no time limit or mintage limit. Every returned 75th proof can be repurchased for less as an MAH. Cancellations may increase the RP value but the availability of the “S” proof remains. In addition the 2012 ASE “W” proof has sold close to 500K so far. Why would the “S” proof not do as well? I wouldn’t bank on this set not selling.

  167. stephen m. says

    Louis, I ordered an extra set(3) of the SF 75th anniversary at the last hour or so of the open window due to what i thought was a reasonably low sales number. I’ll wait to cancel these when and if i know how far that same window is going to open up again, meaning the sale of American History coin and currency set, for more of the proof s coins to be sold that i thought would be unavailable after the 75th SF set window closed. I should have seen it coming but was caught completely off guard with the sale of the s proof coins coming back up for sale.The mint did a good job with the sale of the SF 75th anni sets but went over the line to still offer this coin, or maybe both coins, again.

  168. hi ho silver says

    Im just trying to add a little humor to this thread KEITHSTER, dont take it to heart 🙂 .Coin collecting is fun , if it makes you upset maybe another hobby would be better.

  169. RLP says

    Louis has stated the obvious, the Mint has extraordinary discretion as to how it represents and conducts its business operations.

    The motto adorning our coins is “In God We Trust” not “In The Mint We Trust”…

    Ultimately as consumers we individually must accept responsibility for any purchase decision. Personally, I have routinely purchased Mint products for decades mostly with zero problems. Recent Mint actions are reason enough to heed the old doctrine of caveat emptor.

  170. Louis says

    Keithster,
    I totally understand. Try not to work too hard, and enjoy your weekend, and your coins.

  171. KEITHSTER says

    Sorry do I seem like the upset one on these blogs well maybe for different reasons is that the problem.Humor ya love it tho mines a little harder to pick out its there never been told I DON’T HAVE A SENSE HUMOR o sorry dang caps.Another hobby got a few like rock hunting free gemstones there for the taking just got to find them no two a like prefer agates have many or garage sale’s you would be surprized what you find there.Don’t seem to have much time for them of late but glade I got do them when I did.As I’m sure I will be glade I got to do my coin collecting when I did. As for not taking it to heart why take a hobby if you can’t take it to heart.I like to think I have a honest heart don’t like dishonesty sceems scams whatnots whatevers as the truth in the end is what matters,I suppose I DON’Tsorry dang caps again have to post here but for that free speach thing.suppose I could just read some of the stuff here to get a good laugh without having to read my own crap to get a belly-buster. good luck to all 🙂

  172. hi ho silver says

    KEITHSTER your alright !!! some people seem to think its the end of the world cause a Proof S mint is still being released. I am still waiting and wondering about the $5 note hahaha !!!!!!!! ( I agree this set is a joke and a slap in collectors faces) If I would have missed the 2 coin set oh well..I personally like my DMPL Morgans better than any RP Silver Eagle. GOOD LUCK too you too !!

  173. KEITHSTER says

    Thanks man I’ll get to do all three this weekend like try to not work to hard, but we tend to frown on slackers on my most weekends job We tend to give them guff mostly in jest. We’re valets and are mostly busy on the weekends but it’s kinda fun and helps pay for my mint habit.Ya for the short time we’re in your big fancy car truck or suv we’re in control ( HINT PLEASE LEAVE YOUR AC AND RADIO UP HIGH) as we are not allowed to touch anything.Then when my 8 is up at midnight I get to take my tips money and change it in to coins mostly nickel rolls the only true intrinsic left in circ.But the last couple of weeks they been paying me off in uncirculated 2012 D’s. So how fun is that:)SO THANKS O as for the RP ASE’s I think they’ll make them in smaller batches to go along with the differant shipping dates to account for the cancells and returns as they are harder to make with the shorter die lives and whatnots so I DON’T THINK WE’LL SEE ANY NEW RP OFFERS ON THESE but as was said all bets were off after the final number was in.good luck toYA’LL

  174. hi ho silver says

    nexttimeuwannachangeyomind KEITHSTER……… Just let me know……….LoL !!

  175. ClevelandRocks says

    Total load of crap. Nothing on the Bureau of Printing and Engraving site at all.
    Clearly the implication was one month for sales of either coin, NOT one month PLUS whenever the Mint wants later. What a bunch of BS, 220th anniversary, Ha!

  176. Dan says

    I’d like to know how many different people collectively purchased all the 75th Anniversary sets, and then what percentage of those people actually read and/or comment on this site. If that number could be known or at least approximated and it came to something like 10% of the total sales, it might be large enough (as a group) to voice an opinion to the Mint. However if that number were less than a percent it may not mean as much. Do you follow?

  177. DCDave says

    I called the Mint too to complain and they said I’d have to put it in writing or they will not know we are unhappy with this.

  178. Gary says

    I cant find the blogs that were on the right side of the main coin network page? do we not have them anymore or what?
    Michael….HELP

  179. KEITHSTER says

    ceymosabbythelasttimeididanymindchageingstuffwasinthe70smanbutksarasarabutinthendwhentheyshowmethenumbersillproblysmokumanywaygoodlucktoall:)

  180. Mercury says

    Steve says:
    July 20, 2012 at 2:02 pm
    I don’t get it. For all the bad news regarding this two coin set, people are bidding on ebay for up to $216 for this set.
    Steve, here’s my take on this whole situation. One possible reason for the continued interest in Ebay purchases of this two-coin set, is that dealer are now taking the angle of purchasing this set with the hopes of being able to cash in on their purchase if the coins come out with a 70+ grade. When you think about it, from an investment standpoint, with the over saturation of the silver proofs, a PR70 grade will become the standard by which any appreciated value will come of them. Also in regards to whether or not having the Reverse Proof in the set will increase the set’s worth; you have to figure that there is still no guarantee that the US Mint will not out source the 2012 RP through some other venue before the years out. How can you trust that they wont, (regardless of what they might tell us) considering their actions in regards the proof coins? So most likely, the bids we now see on eBay for the 2012 sets represent risky attempt to corner the market on dated packages that would qualify for the early release TPG submissions. Here again I go back to proposing that there appears to be some sort of finagling going on here between the Mint and TPGs. That there is some sort of alliance between the two to make a case for the need to collect Graded Coins in order to increase a coins desirability and appreciation. In the end, collectors like you and I, are left holding the bag. The Mint knows now that whatever move we decide to make, whether we cancel the 2-coin set and purchase the MAH Set instead, matters little to them. The bottle line is that they will have profited at our expense by combining these tactics. Obvious our being trusting and loyal customer is not the big picture here.

  181. Don says

    In 1862, President Lincon signed the Railway Act, opening the way for the Union Pacific Railroad.
    I am suggesting that the Mint produce a 150 yr. anniversay set to commemorate this occasion.
    The set could include a 2012 cent that has been flattened by a Union Pacific Locomotive. This could however, present problems for the grading companies, who might have to order a new designation, such as “railroad effect” on the coins.

  182. ClevelandRocks says

    This 220th anniversary set AFTER the “one month only” production of the “S”ASE depends on what the defination if “is” is. Seriously, I did not invest much for this, but am seriously considering retiring from being a collector if the Mint is gaming us as a sign of things to come.

    GAME OVER Mint. I will not be a part of a Mint circus, period. You can make all the super-special, limited edition sets, 3rd edition, and I will have zero interest.

    My wife would love it if I were to sell my collection and be done with this New Mint DoubleSpeak nonsense and maybe put a down payment on a condo in FL with the proceeds.

  183. anh says

    After the 25th Anniversary set last year, somehow the words got out to the US MINT. Why can it be the same for this? Who knows how or what process is needed to bring the attention to the MINT like it was the last time? @Louis – Do you know? I think that the damage is already done (by offering the MAH) but at least we can let those in the decision making know how disappointed we are with the way it handled/screwed the customer; who are the ones put “food” on their plates. YES, for those you at the MINT who are making this idiotic decision; PAY ATTENTION, where do you think your salary comes from…. US BUYERS!!!!

  184. anh says

    I started collecting ASE since 1994, have managed to gather a complete proof set from 1986 until now, including the 1995-W, 2006 set and 25th Anniversary set. Yes I have paid an ARM and a LEG for the 1995-W and the 25th Anniversary. Yes I wasn’t happy last year with the 25th set and saw that the MINT made an effort to do it right afterward (the survey) and then this year, how it’s offering of the San Francisco 2 coin set. I enjoy collecting the ASE and its occasional UNIQUE sets is what make it fun for me as a hobby (expensive one that is)… but to do this (offering of the MAH) takes the UNIQUENESS out of the 2 coin set makes me EXTREMELY disappointed and MAH (MAD AS HELL). I just copied this blog’s link and PASTED into the email using the “Contact Us” link from the US MINT site along with my “not so kind” words on this matter. Hopefully the link of this blog will get to someone at the US Mint so they can read all the posts here to get an idea of what they have done. I think it (the email) worth doing instead of just expressing my frustration here on this blog…. Cheers

  185. anh says

    Actually I feel a little better now… VENTING and actually doing something about it. Sorry everyone on this post that you have to read my rants on the last two posts….

    Hope everyone has a HAPPY SUNDAY NIGHT!!!!!

  186. RLP says

    @anh

    Actually sent an extract of my post to the Mints Contact Us link too, as well as the link to this blog item. Not sure if it will be read let alone answered, we’ll see. Nothing ventured, nothing gained….

  187. Louis says

    I really don’t think there is any conspiracy involving the Mint and the TPG’s. If you prefer to keep your set in OGP, do that. If you want it graded, do that. The Mint and the TPG’s are both huge businesses with their own interests, and the problem with most conspiracies is they require the actors to be a lot more competent that they actually are.

  188. Kelly says

    Louis

    Since we are talking conspiracy theories, heres mine. IMHO the ER/FS labels mean nothing, but with the tpg’s I would love to watch the percentage of 70’s with these labels as compared to the 70’s in the later groups. Theoretically with the law of averages, it should be the same but sometimes I just wonder. Thats my conspiracy theory.

  189. anh says

    INTERESTING!!!!
    NGC has changed the requirement for the submission of the San Francisco 2 coin set…
    “IMPORTANT UPDATE: To receive the SAN FRANCISCO EAGLE SET pedigree, the Proof and Reverse Proof 2012-S Silver Eagles must be received in equal numbers on the same submission form. If the Proof 2012-S Silver Eagles are submitted without an equal or higher number of Reverse Proof 2012-S Silver Eagles, they will NOT be eligible for the special pedigree. All Reverse Proof 2012-S Silver Eagles will receive the pedigree by default.”

  190. Richard W says

    Conspiracy and collusion normally at some point leaks.If that were the case and there were a leak both partners would get trashed do you really believe either party would take that risk.I for one wishes this whole topic would go away.

  191. Dan says

    The way I see it, since the US Mint does not time code when each coin was actually made and since the TPG’s have no way of knowing whether a proof (not reverse) coin came from the MAH or SF 75th Anniversary set, this whole notion of “SF LABEL” is bunk (you’re paying a premium now or later for the label).

    If the US Mint wanted to come out with a special product they could count whether a coin was in the first 50, 100, 500 (whatever the statistical number works out to be such that 95% or whatever the percentage has to be) in order to have a high degree of confidence that the coin will be Proof 70 (but there’s no guarantee unless the US Mint gets into the grading business). The coins would require special packaging. The counter would reset each time there was a die change. This would certainly lend credence to the notion of “First Strike” (on a new die).

    Early Release is just when the TPG received the item, again there is no way to tie it back to when the coin was actually struck, so you’re paying for the label. Who was it that said there’s a sucker born every minute?

  192. Don says

    Dan,
    Of course you know the “sucker born every minute” was P.T. Barnum’s quote. In tribute to him, the Mint should consider putting his image on a commemorative dollar.

  193. simon says

    Let me propose the following = first strike is total bunk. Since the Mint does not and will not keep track of the minting sequence, the minted coins are stacked with the “first strike” at the bottom of the pile and the “last struck” at the top of the pile. When shipment occurs, the last struck are pulled off the pile first and shipped. I’m sure PCGS is fully aware of this but choose to perpetuate their nonsense simply because it is a cash cow, albeit producing sour milk for customers. There have been many instances when I opted to purchase coins months after issue and received pristine “70-quality” coins with no flaws – I have a 10x loupe and a 20x microscope, and I scan my coins more carefully, spending more time than the staff at PCGS, NGC, and the like. I am surprised that the government does not step in and axe the scam.

  194. Bill B says

    The US Mint don’t care in their collector customers! All they want to do is sell coins and make money! I thought I would have another low mintage eagle set like the 25th ASE and the 20th ASE. But now it don’t look that way! The Mint led us to believe the 2012 (2) coin eagle set would be exclusive, with their daily counter on the order page. We sure were fooled!

  195. Bos says

    I like Mercury’s idea of a 150 anniversary coin commemorating 150 years of the Union Pacific Railroad. It could also have an 1893 date on it, which is the year they went bankrupt.

    I do see a problem with the grading of the flattened coins after being run over by a locomotive however. The grading companies would have a heck of a time determining “first strike” eligibility.

    I suggest that the flattening by closely supervised at North Platte, Nebraska in the UP yard there. Only an adequate number of coins would be laid on the rails, at exactly noon on the strike date. I would say maybe 250,000 would be enough, with all but 50 of them allocated to a certain TV network that would have first strike priority. They get special deals from the TPG’s and can have them graded in bulk. The other 50 would be rationed, one per state, and given out by raffle according to which employee or retiree of the UP in that state has the lowest seniority or employee number.

    A new grading scale would be established, with 1 being the highest or most smashed, and 100 being the lowest, or least smashed. We can come up with some verbage to go along with the numbers, such as most piss poor smashed or least cruddy semi-smashed, or whatever. There are plenty of people who will work with the committee on setting up those standards.

    Of course no cleaning, dipping, or dusting off will be allowed, so a bit of grease or dirt would need to be in each of the plastic encapsulated holders to verify authenticity.

    I am sure others will have some ideas on this as well.

  196. Brad says

    It’s not looking too likely that the 7/27 ship date for my June 7 order will actually happen. I just checked the order status, and even though the 7/27 ship date is still displayed, it seems for that to happen the status should be “In stock and reserved” by now. I’m surprised the ship date hasn’t started to be pushed back a day, each day. That is standard procedure.

  197. Dan says

    I wonder if the first few folks who receive multiple sets put theirs up for auction on eBay with a caption along these lines: SOLD OUT at the MINT, In-HAND and FREE SHIPPING, etc … (probably on a 1-day or 3-day auction) with a sky-high premium, etc …

  198. Don says

    Bos,
    Thanks for elaborating and expanding on my idea of a 150 year Union Pacific anniversary set. It is me and not “Mercury” whose idea this was. Please give credit where credit is due.

  199. Don says

    Bos and others:
    The Union Pacific Railroad is now celebrating its 150 year anniversary with a train tour using vintage UP diesel locomotives. This would be your opportunity to place a few 2012 shiny copper pennies on the track somewhere along the route to get flattened.
    These coins could be submitted to the grading companies and would literally get a “First Strike” designation.
    Can you imagine the profit to be had by selling these exclusive coins on ebay? Finally, a “First Strike” designation that has some meaning.

  200. Mercury says

    Another Quote “Loose Lips Sink Ships”. I’d be careful if I were you… too much talk about the 150 anniversary coin commemorating 150 years of the Union Pacific Railroad. Could give the Mint an Idea on where to package off the rest of the 2012 Reverse Proof. Since were on the subject of quotes, one thing I can say regarding the US Mints Method Of Handling the 2012 Proofs, brings to mind still another quote, that “even bad press can be good press”. You wouldn’t perhaps think that the Mint is using this IMH offer as a means of free advertisement. I heard it mention that from the 2011 Anniversary Set debacle. The Mint had an overall increase in customer awareness, which believe it or not lead to a cross the board product sells increase. Unfortunately stirring up controversy may be the new Mint way of promoting itself. The pattern I’m seeing being used here is to slap around the collectors, we in turn saturate the emails with complaints. The Mint then makes an apology and says they’ll make it up to us. We believe it, and make up, only to start the process all over again. Admit it, we are being conditioned. If we don’t find some way out of this pattern, we are going to be eaten alive. As I see it the Mint is counting on the fact that everything will return to business as normal after we all had a good cry. I guess past offenses have proven to them that we don’t have what it takes to walk out on them. “The dog chasing his tail;” ooh, another quote.

  201. Mercury says

    Didn’t want to leave anyone in the dark. Someone asked me so I’ll explain. I used the initials IMH in my last blog instead of writing out the word “Institute of Mental Health”. A no brainier if I say so myself.

  202. 64USMarine says

    The way I see it is, The Mint is getting enough of our money for a product we thought might be worth something someday, why should we pay NGC, or PGCS, to say that it is a PF70, or PF69 when if we just left it as OGP we could cut out the middle man and save money. I would much rather have a OGP than a slabed coin anyway. It’s like Mike M. on HSN selling those damn gold state quarters. he ruined the coins by putting gold on them, they are not unc anymore, but people buy them just the same thinking they will be worth a fortune someday. I mean it’s nice to have a middle man step in and say this coin is a 70 that way there is no arguing over the condition of the coin, as you know the seller will grade it higher, than the buyer, but in my day (the 1950s and 60s) we never had a problem buying or selling a coin. If the person you were buying the coin from wanted to much as he thought it was EF and you thought it was just Fine you went to someone else to buy the coin, or you split the difference. We didn’t need an outsider to tell us what the condition of the coin was. I am a collector and have been since the 1950s, and it’s not right what the Mint is doing by getting our hopes up and then coming out with MAH, but I know the solution to the problem. If everyone would cancel there subscriptions, and not buy anything from them for 6 months or even a year, I think we would get there attention. Just like oil companies, if everyone filled there tanks up on Monday, and didn’t buy any gas for a week or two they would have to give it away or dump it. Just my two cents……….

  203. Don says

    64USMarine,
    You make some good points. Grading modern coins is for the benefit and profit of the grading companies. If the coins look to be without flaws, leave them in the OGP and enjoy them for what they are.
    Furthermore, the “First Strike” and other similar labels that grading companies use take the grading of modern issues to the level of scamming unwitting buyers. What a complete waste of money.

  204. hi ho silver says

    You had me up untill your last sentance 64U. If everyone buys gas on Monday there would be a 7X profit in daily sales Monday ( and long lines as in 1979) with a 0 profit for next 6 days, but it can’t be done depending on ones weekly driving.

  205. norm says

    I think if the mint is helping to commemorate the 220th anniversary they would have chosen a P mint marked coin instead of a mint that came about 145 years later. A P mintmarked ASE ,RP,burnished,reg proof would have been more appropriate to help commemorate tnis milestone.

  206. 64USMarine says

    I just checked the my order at the Mint and the cancel box is still present. I placed my order 32 minutes after they went on sale and my order said “2 units backordered. Expected to ship on 07/27/2012.” So I guess I will find out tomorrow if they do ship out. If not, no big deal. I am not sending them in to be graded, I just want them for my collection. Just like my 2011 American Eagle 25th Anniversary Set, I kept it in OGP, I didn’t send it in to be graded, I bought it for my collection, not to make money off of, like most people. All my coins will be left to my family, and hopfully they will be worth a fortune, and they can sell them, or pass them on to my great, great grand children. Cause the way things are going, are kids, and there kids are going to need are help……….

  207. hi ho silver says

    50,000 more proof s mints going into this set , still making this proof coin 2nd lowest minted proof coin so far according to CoinWorld (sorry 1994). Not too bad !!!!! EBay should see these sets going for $250 soon IMO.

  208. anh says

    Here we go….. US MINT just charged my credit for the 2 coin set. The option to cancel of my order is no longer available.

  209. RLP says

    US Mint response to inquiry referencing my post of July 20, 2012 at 11:37 pm.. for whatever it may be worth.

    “We apologize for any lack of communication on our part that may have led you to assume that the American Eagle Silver Proof Coin with the “S” mint mark would only be offered in the 2012 American Eagle San Francisco Two-Coin Silver Proof Set.

    The United States Mint strives to offer a variety of products in various packaging and price points to help broaden access to our coins. In doing so, we routinely package our coins in various ways to make them as appealing as possible to different customer segments and at different price points.

    Please note that the American Eagle San Francisco Two-Coin Silver Proof Set also contains a 2012 reverse proof, which is not available in the coin and currency set nor is it planned for any other 2012 product option.

    Again, please accept our apologies if the lack of more specific communications related to these two sets caused confusion.

    Sincerely,
    United States Mint”

    End of US Mint Response

  210. hi ho silver says

    RLP You can still cancel your order or return it for a refund. The two coin set is no longer avalible , now the Mint is playing up the MAH sets , good business tactics but this hush hush untill the last minute should stop. I wonder what happened to the waiting list function they used for the 25th set last year ?? I think they should have had it for a week after July 5th deadline for any cancelations,denied credit cards, and whatnot.

  211. RLP says

    @hi ho silver

    I was just grumbling at the Mint for what I perceived to be a lack of “honesty” with their customers. Stemmed from a post I made in the MAH article. After thinking on the matter some more I concluded complaining via just the blog probably wouldn’t get any attention from Mint personnel, so wrote them directly. Perhaps it will made a difference, and maybe not. For sure, if you don’t include/involve their representatives nothing will happen.

    My 6/7 order has been shipped, and I am looking forward to receiving it. Been an ASE proof collector throughout the series. Enjoy filling holes too much to just quit because of questionable decision within the Mint management.

  212. hi ho silver says

    RPL Thats how I am, just sold some of my 2011 BU & PR eagles I purchased early in 2011 and took a loss………With the set that came out later I had too many. Thats my beef with the Mint. At least this SF set doesnt have any eagles I purchased earlier. Enjoy your set , I know I will.

  213. RLP says

    @hi ho silver

    If the MAH set had included a more representative coin of the 220th Mint anniversary such as a “P” ASE proof combined with the BEP “150” series $5 it would have been a more appropriate and appealing offer to the collector community.

    Having instead opted for a further distribution of “S” std ASE proofs might speak to inaccurate marketing forecasts and the need to salvage as much sunk costs as reasonable (without completely ticking off the 2 coin SF anniversary set buyers).

    Too many missing pieces to tell what really was behind the decision, but it produced good blog fodder.

  214. hi ho silver says

    I agree RPL. It seems the Mint is doing the reverse here from the offering of 20th and 25th ann sets.

  215. Chris says

    A lot of people here are concerned about the loss of profit I know, but that is not the point. The point is HONEST ETHICAL behavior. Whether or not a one makes money on a coin, all collectors want to own rare coins. When the mint advertises a certain amount of rarity to sell a coin and then turns around and offers the coin again, it is UNETHICAL. Many would call this BAIT and SWITCH. The mint should be ASHAMED.

  216. Silver Surfing Scott says

    Hard Language!!!! Why can’t the mint be more onist with customers.
    I wish I new this when I ordered. I would have ordered less. The U.S. Mint
    has another strike against it, in my mind. This will affect my future
    orders. I will always be second guessing what the Mint is doing this time.
    Each years I order less from the Mint because of tactiks like this.
    OH WELL….. For me I guess. I’ll make the best of this new situation.
    Please U.S. Mint, If you say it’s something, don’t say it’s something else
    later, just to make another dollar. More onisty in Government will go a long way with me, and others like me!!!!

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