Potential Ultra High Relief Gold Coin and Silver Medal

A notice has been published in the Federal Register for an upcoming meeting of the Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee (CCAC) to discuss a potential 2015 24-Karat Gold Ultra High Relief Coin and Silver Medal.

At this time, there have been no specific details provided on the potential products under consideration. The meeting will take place tomorrow July 22, 2014 at 3:00 PM ET by teleconference. I plan to listen in on the call and will report on the discussion.

As explored in this previous post, under 31 U.S.C. Β§ 5112(i)(4)(C) the Secretary of the Treasury may prescribe program procedures and specifications for minting and issuing new gold bullion and proof coins. The provision grants broad authority with regards to coin specifications, designs, varieties, quantities, denominations, and inscriptions.

2009 Ultra High Relief Gold Coin

The United States Mint has used this authority to produce the 2009 Ultra High Relief Double Eagle Gold Coin as well as the upcoming 2014 50th Anniversary Kennedy Half Dollar Gold Proof Coin.

Presumably, the US Mint would once again use this authority to produce a new Ultra High Relief Gold Coin for 2015. Since comparable authority does not exist for silver coins, any silver version would have to be issued as a non-legal tender medal.

What will the next product be? Will the US Mint revisit another classic design? Or an ultra high relief of a modern design? Or create an entirely new design, potentially beginning a new modern series?

I will report back tomorrow with any available details.

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Comments

  1. Ikaika says

    As long as they do not mint another UHRDE I am fine with it. Otherwise there goes the uniqueness of the 2009 coin.

  2. fmtransmitter says

    What will the next product be? Will the US Mint revisit another classic design? Or an ultra high relief of a modern design? Or create an entirely new design, potentially beginning a new modern series?

    Thank you for following up on this potential delightful offering…

  3. Blair J Tobler says

    Pittsburgh P – I agree. I can’t afford the gold coins, and I have little to no interest in medals. A silver coin would be awesome!

  4. Jon in CT says

    Mint News Blog wrote on July 21, 2014:

    What will the next product be? Will the US Mint revisit another classic design? Or an ultra high relief of a modern design? Or create an entirely new design, potentially beginning a new modern series?

    I’ll predict these products will commemorate the centennial of the Panama-Pacific International Exposition in San Francisco, which opened on February 20, 1915. It’s either that or it’s for the 100th anniversary of the US’s first invasion/occupation of Haiti, which began on July 28, 1915. πŸ˜†

  5. Jake says

    My guess: A high relief of one or both of the $50 coins that were sold at the San Francisco’s 1915 Panama Pacific International Exposition.

  6. Jon in CT says

    Jake wrote on July 21, 2014 at 3:10 PM:

    You beat me by one minute.

    That’s because I never bother to do any research for or put any thought into my comments. 😎

  7. Larry says

    I would like to see an ultra high relief version of the 1916 Standing Liberty Quarter. Make it gold if you have to.

  8. Dan in Fla says

    I for one would be thrilled with a UHRDE with a 2015 date. The 2009’s UHR gold coins are too expensive.

  9. says

    mgm,

    I’m with you. A gold buffalo high relief would be intriguing. We do not need another HR gold eagle six years following the 2009 one.

  10. Jon in CT says

    smiledon wrote on July 21, 2014 at 4:29 PM:

    Why not the mercury design?

    Because the Winged Liberty Head dime obverse design is now reserved by law for the palladium coin?

  11. VA Bob says

    I believe the palladium coin idea was shelved in it’s entirety. I too would like to see that design on a larger canvas.

  12. smiledon says

    My vote is for anything or anybody that is not a politician.
    Lord knows that we really do need to get back to what made this nation great.
    fmtransmitter, we could have the Walking liberty on the front with a Bill of Rights on the back.

  13. Hidalgo says

    Off Topic… Back to the Baseball Hall of Fame coins. I placed an extra order for a silver proof coin on April 3, 2014 at 4:50 AM.

    The US Mint website shows that my coin is now “in stock and reserved” and my credit card has a pending charge on it.

    As I expected, prices for the gold and silver BHOF have trended downward from weeks ago. Currently, the silver BHOF coins (uncertified) are selling in the $70 – $75 range on eBay. That’s still higher than the US Mint’s “retail” price. However, it’s not great if you plan to flip (considering eBay and PayPal fees).

  14. 19Lyds says

    I wish the CCAC would just do their jobs instead of trying to create unwanted yet politically correct junk.

    At what point does the craziness stop?

  15. Louis says

    @19- How can you call something PC when no have no idea whatsoever, and neither does anyone else, what the HR set will be, nor is it set in stone it will be issued. Second, if it’s junk, how came so many people are interested in knowing what it is. And by the way, they are doing their job and can’t please everyone. Where do you think the idea for the JFK coins came from. I know members of the CCAC and they personally argued for it.

  16. Ray says

    Just canceled all of my open BHoF orders. If you dont receive them with the first batch going out, it’s really not worth it. At least they dont charge us all in March. I’m slowly exiting the coin collecting game. I dont have the patience, and the returns are minimal, if any. good luck all!! its been great meeting everyone here. Thats been my biggest asset of becoming a coin collector. Thx all

  17. high low silver says

    @ Louis: Please don’t listen to the flippers/// I like the Ireland JFK coin and could care less about a RP version, but I still can dream about a Pan Pacific offering I hope is on the way nxt year. πŸ™‚

  18. Pittsburgh P says

    @Ray if you are in it just as a collector what’s it matter how long it takes? What returns do you speak of? I am just as frustrated with the mint as you are with the BHoF release but if you have waited this long what’s another month or so? Most releases are not like this one too. If you are only in it to make a profit I respect that but you are not a collector. Sorry to see ya go either way…

  19. Clark says

    I wasn’t always a fan of former Mint Directory Moy, but I give him a lot of credit for bringing back much of lost art and craftsmanship through the UHR 2009 Double Eagle effort. I only have one in my collection, but it is among my favorites because of all the thought, technology and old fashioned creativity that combined a beautiful older design with modern know-how. To my knowledge, it’s the only modern coin that came with a production manual. I remember staring at that darn coin for hours. Until the Baseball Hall of Fame series came along, I don’t recall being so taken with a U.S. modern coin.

    If the CCAC (including Michael?), Mint staff, Treasury and collectors can build on the imagination that brought us the UHR Double Eagle in 2009, this is a great opportunity and I’m all for it.

  20. says

    @Ray, I hate to see you go. I hate to see that you cancelled your BHOF coins. It is tough to make a profit. Even if you don’t do much with coins, continue to read the posts. I read 5 separate Coin blogs and this is the only one that I contribute too. I think this blog BY far is the best Coin blog out there. The most knowledgeable people, the friendliest people and the best information is shared on this blog. I wish you well…

  21. Hidalgo says

    @Ray – if you’re a true coin collector (vs. a dealer, flipper, etc.), you’ll enjoy the website, Coin Community. I really enjoy reading the posts there. They talk about searching coin rolls, rare finds, coin storage, etc. They have a good time talking about the thrill of the hunt rather than the search for profits.

    Check it out and make your own determination. πŸ™‚

  22. Jon in CT says

    smiledon wrote on July 21, 2014 at 5:55 PM:

    My vote is for anything or anybody that is not a politician.
    Lord knows that we really do need to get back to what made this nation great.

    Hear, hear!

    2015 happens to mark the 50th anniversary of the issuance of US patent no. 3,180,335 for one of the greatest inventions known to mankind. Invented by Robert C. Duncan and Norma L. Baker, the resulting product has made life infinitely easier and more comfortable for billions, both when they’re very young and when they’re very old.

    http://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pdfs/US3180335.pdf.

  23. Jon in CT says

    smiledon wrote on July 21, 2014 at 5:55 PM:

    My vote is for anything or anybody that is not a politician.
    Lord knows that we really do need to get back to what made this nation great.

    Hear, hear!

    April 27, 2015 happens to mark the 50th anniversary of the issuance of US patent no. 3,180,335 for one of the greatest inventions known to mankind. Invented by Robert C. Duncan and Norma L. Baker, the resulting product has made life immeasurably easier and more comfortable for billions, both when they’re very young and when they’re very old. I am referring, of course, to Pampers.

  24. thePhelps says

    I think a lot of coins posted for suggestions to be made next year – won’t happen because they are 1916 issues. While I’d be all in for a high relief 1916 Standing Liberty coin – it is not a coin anyone would expect to be commemorated in 2015 – same with the 1916 Walking Liberty or even the Indian Head penny…

    I agree the most likely candidate for commemoration is the 1915 Pan-Pac coin… unless there is an 1815 coin we could see?

  25. Boz says

    Put some BHOF’s in the wash machine at the laundrymat. Dang machine jammed. I don’t think much of our country’s new coinage.

  26. gary says

    Yup, that’s it for me. The Mint is now well on the path of precious metal circus coins. First the 2009 UHR, then coin design birthday sets, the BHOF curved coins, JFK gold half dollar and now ???? Seems all the Mint needs to do is tinker with mint marks, and coin finishes in every possible contrivance and just for good measure, use an old coin design and presto! They have thousands of collectors eager to buy this junk bullion.

  27. Zaz says

    The original Saint Gaudens Indian head design for the double eagle or both the $50 round and octagonal PanPacs in the ORIGINAL 2-inch/2 oz. size. They’d probably be $2,995 each at current mint pricing but they would be the Crown Jewels of anyone’s modern US set.

  28. TomP. in Va says

    Next year will be the 10th year of production of the gold Buffalo (starting in 2006). Producing an UHR of the buffalo will be a great way to end the series on a high note. Having a limited run of the series will make the buffalo series more easily collectable than the long running AGE. This will allow a totally new design to be produced, perhaps the former palladium idea in gold. In my opinion, both the buffalo and the Indian bust would look great in UHR.

  29. says

    Ray, I remember when you first commented in early 2013 and that you said you had been collecting rock art for a while and thought you would like coins. I have enjoyed reading all your posts.
    Stay cool!

  30. Sith says

    Not sure what all the hoopla is about as I stated earlier the mint takes great pleasure in ignoring the CACC. I thought the BHOF was innovating, and the beauty of the 2009 UHR, as the mint itself put it, allowed a coin that was envisioned but not technically feasible at the time to be produced for its 100 year anniversary. But based on the comments here I guess innovation is to take an old design (Pan Pacific) and simply make it a high relief coin.

    @Jon in CT – I’m glad you have realized you don’t think before you post, but please don’t start now I find your posts, well entertaining

    @Ray – I’m sorry to hear your going but you claim you are a collector but then state that the returns are minimal, that IMHO sounds more like a flipper than a collector. Now if you were saying you are not getting enjoyment out of collecting, or can’t afford to collect coins that lose value…

  31. Clark says

    Ray-Your departure from coin collecting reminds me how important it is for numismatics to remain interesting and rewarding, not necessarily from a financial perspective, but as a hobby. I respect your reasons for leaving and also wish you well, however, I think that 2014 has been a great year for modern U.S. coin collectors: The BHoF series, JFK’s 50th anniv series and now the prospect of another potentially amazing UHR coin (or two) are breaths of fresh air.

    Many of us collect not only because we love to, but also because we want to leave our heirs something personal, beautiful, interesting and, if we are lucky, a little valuable. If the hobby dissipates or dies off for lack of interest, our heirs won’t continue the tradition and are less likely to appreciate our efforts, and that would be a shame.

    I appreciate many of the initiatives we saw and are continuing to see from the Mint this year–warts and all–to the extent the it is trying to keep the hobby fresh and interesting. We as collectors have also bear a responsibility encourage existing collectors and inspire new ones with our honest enthusiasm and by helping each other, as folks so often do in this forum. So with that, Ray, I’m sorry to see you leave, but hope you will be inspired to return.

  32. Sith says

    @fmtransmitter – Talk about a potential loss of profit for NGC. NGC will designate labels with a “”First Day of Issue” if ‘received by NGC in the original US Mint shipping box with a July 24 postmark date.” Good luck with that label as I I have never had any of my coins ordered with the mint shipped on the same day. I have been waiting over three months for a BHOF, and NGC thinks that the mint will have a sufficient quantity of orders wrapped and packed in 5 hours to make it a profit…then again paper and ink are cheap.

  33. Louis says

    I know VA Rich will be disappointed but I also cancelled a couple silver BHOF tonight. Better to free up funds for other stuff.

    Anyone catch how NGC wants $75 per coin for on-site grading of the clad JFK set? So $150 to grade a $10 set? No thanks. I supposed the flippers will do it for the labels chasers, but it just makes no sense to me.

    Got my 5 oz wedge tail, Poseidon and other stuff today from down under. Downies is awesome! Arrived 3 days from the date sent. And I paid less than Perth price for the Poseidon.

  34. says

    I am all for an UHR Gold coin. I would Love to see an UHR design from the $2.5 Indian Head Gold. I don’t have the 2009 UHR St Gauden’s but I do Love the design…

  35. Louis says

    Since both 2015 commem programs are set in stone now and don’t include the Pan Pacific, I suspect that will be it. I will know in a few hours!!

  36. Louis says

    By the way, Downies now charges you the converted AUS to US dollar rate and subtracts GST (not sure if that is like VAT or what), which makes their prices very competitive. I know it’s off topic. So sue me.

  37. VABEACHBUM says

    @ Louis – Thanks for the Downie’s update. Glad to hear that the purchases went well. I received the sales policy change notice they issued some 6 weeks ago; just have not taken advantage of it yet. Probably will be the RAM “Orion” later this fall. Well, unless something interesting comes along between now and then!!

  38. Jerry Diekmann says

    Looks like the U.S. Mint is taking their cue from the Royal Canadian Mint in how to ruin a hobby for coin collectors and serve the needs of the dealers and flippers. Just a shame – count me out of this game – I’m taking my coins and going home.

  39. says

    Jerry D,

    It looks like you’d like a return to the old days of Mint offerings, which basically consisted of a proof set and uncirculated set. There’s nothing wrong with getting back to basics. The multitude of numismatic products that the Mint now pumps out is mind boogling. At the least, some streamlining of Mint products is sorely needed.

  40. VABEACHBUM says

    @ Louis – Thanks for the update. Had a Downies newsletter in my in-box this AM!!

    @ Hawkster – The US Mint already has been through one consolidation / streamlining process. Even up to 5 years ago, the overabundance of types and quantities of meaningless products used to be so much worse!! They are their own worse enemy, though. Adding, deleting and/or changing products and packaging after a series is well established. Examples include ending the individually packaged Presidential Dollar Proofs 2 years in; drastic changes to the Presidential Dollar Coin Cover products mid-series; starting the ATB “S” Quarter products 3 years in; and the list goes on.

  41. stephen m says

    Ray, If you collect for the returns on your purchases from the Mint perhaps it’s best that you do make an exit. I have a feeling you will be back. While some modern coins are instant money and profit makers others may take a while to blossom. I feel this is a transition period for a lot of us, for better or for worse. Good luck to ya.

  42. smiledon says

    Does any one here think that the UHR silver medal should honor the 4 men that held the
    rank of Fleet Admiral? 2 on the front, and the other 2 on the back.

  43. says

    Well, when I read the news, my first thought was that we’d be seeing something like a high relief mercury dime, but I have to say the Pan Pacific Expo idea was also pretty good idea, so kudos to Jon and Jake for pointing out this possibility.

    Ray,

    Sorry to hear you are leaving. I hope you reconsider, but if not then best of luck to you.

  44. ips_stuff says

    With regards to “Ray” and existing the coin market…I would like to hear from other long time collectors/flippers:
    – I seem to always question my collecting and amount of coins and what I have spent, I usually notice this in the summer time. Selling on Ebay to me appears slower for coins in the summer (people are not confined to the computer) and I have noticed it every year since 1998. Any one else agree?

    Gold BHOF unc – also any one notice the MS70’s that were appearing from the Florida source, may have dried up?

  45. Chris Mc says

    My BHOF gold order(s) placed on 3/30 finally got cancelled this morning by the mint. It looks like all of the golds have shipped.

  46. Brad says

    It looks like the Mint is finally cancelling the remaining Gold BHOF orders that were wait-listed. My 3/28 order at 4:49 pm is now cancelled, reason being “item is no longer available.” I knew it didn’t have a snowball’s chance when I placed it anyway. Still, I thought I would try.

  47. ips_stuff says

    Brad,

    Some with one of my BHOF unc gold from 3/28 but the other still indicated 8/10 shipping date

    one placed at 6:38 AM P.S.T is still showing a date, but one from 11:23 AM P.S.T. now shows….
    2014 BASEBALL HOF GOLD UNC 3 $419.75 $1,259.25 Item is no longer available

  48. ips_stuff says

    cagcrisp – how I found out was order tracking history on the mints web site… notice they did not change status of proof (yet…)

    2014 BASEBALL HOF GOLD PROOF 3 $424.75 $1,274.25 3 units backordered. Expected to ship on 08/10/2014.
    2014 BASEBALL HOF GOLD UNC 3 $419.75 $1,259.25 Item is no longer available.

  49. says

    You have to Believe that for someone to get a Gold at this point Someone would have to ask for a refund. If what Tom Jurkowsky said last week was correct All the Golds were shipped last week…

  50. JBK says

    All the speculation about what might be coming down the pike with the hint at a high relief coin is fun, but unless I am missing something, most of the suggestions people have made are not possible. The mint cannot just mint any coin it wants to – the coin must be authorized by Congress. So, a HR coin would likely have to be for something that is already enacted into law. I am not sure which commem coin programs are already in the pipeline, but it would have to be one of those, or perhaps a coin minted under an existing program, such as one of the bullion programs.

    Ray: there are lots of great collecting possibilities if you get into a niche area within coin/currency collecting. There are still lots of good opportunities to chase desirable items and build a collection without spending a ton of money, and if the field is still under the radar then there is great upside potential.

  51. Brad says

    Cag,

    I saw it in my order history on the Mint website, but I’m sure the e-mail will be waiting for me when I get home from work tonight!

  52. Brad says

    My order was for two uncirculateds, by the way. Maybe some proofs still have hope at this point.

  53. charles says

    JBK…not true…read the the article a at top of this.page…that’s how they did the 2009 UHRDE and the. Mint can do it again

  54. saucexx says

    As info,

    My order for a $5 gold proof entered on 3-29 has been canceled. It was listed as backordered only a day or two ago.

  55. mgm says

    My order hasn’t been canceled yet…

    Order number: 42969XXX
    Order Date: 03/28/2014 at 08:21 AM
    2014 BASEBALL HOF GOLD UNC 1 $419.75 $419.75 1 unit backordered. Expected to ship on 08/10/2014.

  56. Brad says

    mgm,

    Maybe your order will sneak in at the very tail-end of fulfillments. Good luck to you!

  57. JBK says

    Charles……thx for poiting out the prior artticle, but it reaffirms what I said. There must be a Congressionally authorized program in place.

    It seems (not too much detial given) that under existing programs the mint has a lot of leeway with gold coins specifically, which may be the reason why the rumored high relief silver may be a medal and not a coin.

  58. says

    What impact will Gold cancellations have on the market? As soon as I read Brad’s post I went to the Bay and updated my Watch List to include ‘Buy It Now’ for OGP Golds. Since doing that 2 OGP Gold BIN’s have sold. How often does a OGP Gold sell at BIN? The last Full price paid for a BIN was 4 days ago.
    So I would expect that as More and more of the oversold 10,328 orders get cancelled More and more are going to go to the Bay and snatch up a Gold before everyone else gets all the wiser…

  59. Bob R says

    Opinions please. I have some gold HOF OGP and was looking to send to PCGS for grading. I see to get the HOF label they want $25 ea. If I send them just as modern the fee is $16. What kind of label would that be? I have not seen one like that yet. Will they refuse to grade them under the modern tier?

    Also I would be very suspicious that they may hold back on 70 grades if they do not get the HOF $25 fee.

  60. A&L Futures says

    @ Bob R,

    Given the abundance of labels out there, I’d recommend that you keep them OGP (preferably in the mint-sealed case).

  61. Pittsburgh P says

    Bob R they will grade em under the modern teir & the labels will just be the regular PCGS labels. I doubt the grading will be any different… Personally I’d keep them in ogp also especially if you like em better that way.

  62. GoldFishin says

    Bob R – PCGS would use the default blue label if you had them graded without the special HOF 114 label. I don’t think they would slight you if you didn’t pay the extra fee. However, I agree with the others. At current pricing OGP coins are selling for almost as much as 70 graded coins and if you got a 69 grade you would be losing value not gaining any. If fact. by the time you price in grading fees and shipping both ways, OGP is selling for the same as 70 graded coins at current prices. I have kept everything I purchased lately in OGP. I see no additional value at this time. You can always grade them later if things change price wise.

  63. fmtransmitter says

    Selling on Ebay to me appears slower for coins in the summer (people are not confined to the computer) and I have noticed it every year since 1998. Any one else agree?

    AGREE….

  64. Bob R says

    Agreed, in the winter most everyone is hunkered down at home, Ebay probably has the numbers of such things I would think.

  65. Hidalgo says

    If you want to buy an uncertified BHOF gold coin right now on eBay, you can buy two at $600 each and one for $615. I personally do not believe these coins will increase significantly in price — if at all — unless the price of gold bullion increases.

    But who knows for sure? Right now, I plan to save my money to buy one gold Kennedy half commemorative coin. If the coin goes up in value – then great! If it goes down in value, at least I’ll have a coin in my collection that I’ll treasure.

  66. SilverFan says

    I would get the gold HOF coins at this level ($600) if you want/need them. I saw a few sell recently for just under that mark, but now that cancellation notices are going out the demand will likely increase. People selling at $600 or below may be kicking themselves later on that they did not wait it out. I am sure many were looking to flip anyway, and credit card bills come due so some may just have to act. It is a decent buyers market now. I see the gold HOF coins in OGP settling in the $700-800 range. The HOF induction ceremony is next week in Cooperstown, and more baseball people may find out about them increasing demand in the short-term.

  67. says

    Make sure you know what you are buying IF you are looking at the 2 coins mentioned for $600. The same seller has sold 23 70’s and this 2 are listed in OGP.

  68. says

    The same seller mentioned above has Buy It Now’s for $625.00 and $635.00 for 2 69’s SO if these 2 coins offered for $600.00 are thought to be 69’s quality I would sure think they would be sold accordingly…

  69. Saucexx says

    FM,

    You’re right. I’ve been aware of that trend for a while now, mainly because I have a hard time selling myself. The market slows around the middle of July and right after New Years. Great time to buy, awful time to sell.

  70. Jerry Diekmann says

    Hawkster – We don’t need to go back to those really old days, but life was certainly simpler (and cheaper). Commemorative silver coins are fine, for the most part, major exceptions being that politically inspired horrid Eunice Kennedy Special Olympics coin of 1995, he non-sensical 38th anniversary of the Korean War in 1991, and other meaningless products over the years. The big problem is the proliferation of finishes nowadays, which is the modern version of extra mint marks and designs lasting several years which happened in the 1930s and then with the ill-conceived and just plain ugly BTW and GWC-BTW half dollars of the late 1940s and early 1950s. Even commemorative gold coins are nice, but too msny are made, especially when you consider all the bullion gold and silver coins the Mint churns out. I just wonder how anyone nowadays can ever afford to buy all these coins.

    VAB – you are right – too many offerings and too much to spend – too many coins, too much cost. Events that should be commemorated like Teddy Roosevelt’s 150th birthday in 2008 (there was only one commem that year), Alexander Hamilton’s 250th birthday in 2007 (after all he was the first Treasury secretary), or centennial of the completion of the Panama Canal in 2014, or, the 50th anni9versary of NASA in 2008, for example, never get commemorated, but instead we get military and sports, military and sports, military and sports, ad nauseum, ad infinitum. Enough!

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