Predictions Divided on Theodore Roosevelt ATB 5-Oz. Uncirculated Silver


It’s the eve of the release of the 5-ounce America the Beautiful Theodore Roosevelt National Park Uncirculated coins, and collector opinions as to how the coins will sell are varied. In the big silver discs’ corner is their design, which has been well received in comment threads across the Internet. Collectors who have never purchased the Uncirculated 5-ounce issues are showing an interest in seeing the quarter-dollar design in a larger, more beautifully struck format.

In the opposite corner, however, is a heavy, stoop-shouldered lug called product fatigue. At this point in the year, many buyers have expended all the enthusiasm and money they had to spare for Mint products: silver Proofs, gold and silver commemoratives, the American Liberty silver medal, gold and silver American Eagles (including the 30th-anniversary silver Proof), gold Buffalos, platinum Eagle Proofs, bullion and Uncirculated silver “pucks” from the ATB program—with still more to be released over the final quarter of 2016. And that’s not even counting the year’s collector offerings, like the Reagan Coin & Chronicles Set debuting on October 11.

A sample of the comments from Mint News Blog:

“Looks like I’ll [have] to put on my brawling gear Thursday… I think this thing will go quickly.”—Throckmorton

“No limits on this item, sellout ‘maybe’ good design, popular subject, the bullion ones are selling marginally…increased mintage limits have affected this market & ‘legs’ on both issues.”—John Q. Coinage

“Now as I am in the camp that the Roosevelt P puck will not sell out very fast…if at all…pre-sales are a good indicator of interest. If you do an eBay search on 2016 Roosevelt 5 oz,…you only get 23 listings…only one is for the unc p version….10 available at 195.95 and none have sold.”—Steve

“The TR will be the most popular 5 oz. ever and sellout quickly bringing new life back to the series.”—Rob

The Mint will begin taking orders at noon tomorrow. There is no household order limit; the current price is $149.95, subject to change depending on the bullion market. (At the time of the Mint’s announcement, silver was $19.35 per ounce, according to the London Bullion Market Association; as of this posting it is down a bit, at $17.80 per ounce.)

The “potential maximum” mintage limit for the coins is 30,000, but the Mint may produce and sell more than 120,000 of the coins, provided the total for the numismatic and bullion editions does not exceed 150,000. As of Friday, October 2, some 30,500 Theodore Roosevelt National Park bullion strikes had been sold.

To order the silver Uncirculated 5-ounce coins directly from the United States Mint, click here.

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  1. cagcrisp says

    cagcrisp says

    October 5, 2016 at 7:16 pm

    Here’s some Facts After tomorrow’s P puck TR Launch.

    IF you had bought 1 P puck on Launch Day for every offering you would have:

    1. 34 P pucks
    2. 170 oz. of Silver
    3. Total cost (with subscription discount) of $6,486.30
    4. That’s Average Silver paying price of $38.15/oz…

  2. KCSO says

    Ohhhhhh…, nice article, very nice!

    Actually, I love it.., controversy vs passion, I love it indeed!

    Much hangs in the balance with this release tomorrow in my opinion, as it’ll serve as a litmus test for overall collector interest in these pucks going forward and will serve as an appropriate gut check as to the series viability.

    Great approach on the article..,

  3. Barry says

    I’m in for two of the TR “P” pucks as they are exceptional imo. I normally buy one each of the two best designs each year. Looking at next years designs I plan on only one.

  4. Mattarch says

    I already have the bullion puck and have been enjoying the design for a few weeks. I see no need for the more expensive Collector version.

  5. Mint News Blog says

    Thanks, KCSO — glad you liked it! The more I read the comments on the subject, the more I’m tempted to buy one, myself. The only thing I’ve purchased that was even remotely similar was a 1/2-oz. silver Australian “Year of the Goat” coin in 2003. Actually, I bought two — a one-ounce version to leave in its capsule, and the half-ounce version to carry around for luck. The seller was appalled at the very idea, but I bought my coins, and my lucky piece is sitting on my copy of the Red Book as I type this. Needless to say, if I bought 5 oz. of TR silver, I’d leave it in its capsule and pluck a quarter out of my pocket change if I wanted a coin to play with. –Diana

  6. Sith says

    The biggest effect on sale is the spot price. The closer the “P” pucks are to spot price the more they sell. I’m not passing on this “P” puck, but also not in a hurry. If I’m wrong, and I lose out, well I have purchased enough of the bullion version of this coin to keep me happy.

  7. jhawk92 says

    I’m in for one of the P pucks to keep the collection going. I will buy tomorrow to have a fresh coin and not someone’s return. I got my DMPL TR puck last week and it looks very nice.

  8. Zaz says

    The one “fatigue” not mentioned is series. This is the seventh year of the ATB, folks, and won’t limp home into port for another 4-1/2 years in early 2021. If, and this is a very big if, the TR-P puck sells out to its 30,000 max, it will unseat Shenandoah as the highest mintage of all the P-pucks to date. Given that the bullion has only sold 30,500 to date, I doubt very much a max sellout. Perhaps 23-24K is a more reasonable expectation. This a series that the general public really has no inkling of, and of those that do, most are still confused between the bullion and numismatic varieties.

  9. says

    While most say buy early, so you don’t get someone’s return…while I agree that might be a good idea….but where do you think those early returns, rejects come from?…..the first wave…you are just as likely to get a perfect coin or one you want to return by buying on the first day.

    You are statistically just as likely to get a 70 on the last day of sales….no one knows exactly how the Mint releases coins…FIFO or LIFO….first in, first out or last in, first out. For all we know, the first coins minted go to the back of the vault, and are the last one’s released….We don’t know.

  10. marc says

    Why not get on the mints product enrollment program. I already have a confirmation number for the P Puck uss11283 then you do not have to worry if the item sells out. Just a thought!

  11. says

    My (non-discount priced) subscription order for two P Nat’l Parks 5 oz. quarters just hit my credit card for $304.85 at 12:24 a.m. EDT and appear to be scheduled for shipment via USPS Priority Mail, with signature required…which is odd for an under $500 order.

    No Nat’l Parks quarter collection can be complete without Teddy Roosevelt in it, IMHO.

    The tube of 10 bullion 5 oz TRs I bought last month were mostly DMPLs, and look great. I went a little overboard on this issue.

  12. says

    Diana, I’d say in fact that you do have a lucky goat, you’re now leading the most active, enthusiastic and knowledgable coin blog in the blogosphere.., & Coin Update has come along way too and is an impressive resource. We also have the smartest trolls of all other blogs, here too on MNB! 😃

    Clark – that is odd, I’m thinking its locale dependent? This is odd too – one sub for 1 P pucker is being sent Dumbpost, another sub for 2 P puckers, which is less than $300 for content, is being sent via UPS ground with Sig. I had expected Dumbpost.

    I finally laid much anticipated eyes upon my ASE’s just now, hard not to love the ASE design and they are very well struck, though as many of you all have commented on the edge lettering.., Yeah, Okay.., I might be able to see it on a good day.
    I’ll just say I won’t be buying the Reagan set for the ASE-W.

    My Prowler privies look darn good though, cougar’s head appears a tad bit bigger proportionality to the others

  13. says

    Clark – per your “No Nat’l Parks quarter collection can be complete without Teddy Roosevelt in it, IMHO.”

    I always felt that if you bought into NPS Comms, then the TR P was also a “must have” given the relationship, you think most make the connection and see it that way? Or I’m just digging to deep here..

    I think it’s great that the TR release occurred in 2016, the same year as the NPS Centennial

    Oh hey, & I used quotations, I’m off the MNB bad boy list and good to go for the day!

  14. KCSO says

    Another oddity, on my TR order subscription notifications, the coins I have pictured are Saratoga, Smokey Mountains, TR and Blue Ridge. Wish the graphic auto generation had thrown in a gold Buffalo or Walking Half!

  15. Felson says

    KCSO… mine has Harpers Ferry pictured (as have all the notifications). Mine are also being shipped UPS which I like because I can change delivery options and pick it up at UPS.

  16. Sith says

    Sorry folks, I know I’m more wrong than right, but who started this sellout rumor? None of the ATBs have sold out in a week much less a day. I don’t see a sellout happening today.

  17. Doug says

    I have two bullion and two “P” pucks for every coin since 2010 (with exception the year 2010 only have 1 “P” puck for the five coins). I’ve decided this time to buy 4 “P” pucks for TR. Sort of hope some day I can trade a Teddy for one of my missing 2010 “P” pucks. I think the mintage on this one may surprise people if many of us are getting double our standard order plus a few newbies obtaining the single TR coin that are not typical puck collectors.

    We will see but I know I already have my confirmation for my 4 coins!

  18. KCSO says

    ‘S’ American Liberty non-HR medal – NGC

    70 – 1035 — 49.7%
    69 – 1036 — 49.7%
    68 – 11

  19. KCSO says

    ‘W’ American Liberty non-HR medal – NGC

    70 – 1124 — 52.6%
    69 – 1003 — 47.0%
    68 – 7

    Which is also odd as with my 4 medals each, the ‘S’s were the better of the two strikes though my ‘W’s looked darn good as well. Of the 6 I sent to NGC, received 2 ‘S’ back as 70, the rest 69. Yeah, so I was 0 for 3 on the W, just goes to show how hit and miss this ‘flip of a coin’ grading process is (and pointless as well). A little burn to it seeing that 53% are grading 70, I just wanted 1 70 for consistency, oh well, first world problems.

  20. KCSO says

    Doug – great point, & very much agreed. It comes down to simple math, just on the assumption that if half of the base doubles down, either with 1 or 2 extra, things get really interesting if one comes historicals.

    Felson, so I wasn’t alone when I looked in horror at ‘dainty hands’ early this morning? Thanks 😉

  21. Dustyroads says

    There no doubt is going to be a stronger sales of the TR pucks, but would surprisingly sale out. The only chance for that happening of this this coin would be if the big boys are going to take an enthusiastic leap, but what guaranty do they have of any uniformity of same action by others. It’s a good looking coin, but just no signs of an earth shaking event happening here. Zaz may have it right at 23,000-24,000. I’m going to say 18,500.

  22. Hawkster says

    I’m in for just one TR puck. I do not plan to buy additional ones as handouts for nephews, nieces, friends, neighborhood kids, newspaper delivery person, mail carrier, garbage guys, etc.

  23. Sith says

    @KCSO – The Force can have a strong influence on the weak minded…I really predicted a sellout

  24. earthling says

    I think I’ll throw in my guess now, that’s 90% of the fun here. OK, I skipped out on the Silver Medalic Step Children and look what happened. I delayed on the Hawaiian Puck back in 2012 and the DC Crew pulled the plug early. I’m getting sleepy now so no orders for me but maybe in a week or 2 ….. or 3 , or Decemberrrr 10th? Alright given my history, I’ll go with 11,000 1st day sales ( isnt Silver headed down with 1 wing missing? ) and 1st weak sales of 13,000. After 2 more months of weak sales, the Crew pulls the plug at 14,013. The cries and curses are deafening……

  25. says

    Fingers crossed that Au drops another $10 and holds for the coming week, currently $1,252…, would be a two pricing grid decrease in one week

  26. cagcrisp says

    1.The TR puck is the Most hyped puck of 2016
    2. Bullion sales of TR are Dismal
    3. IF you think the TR P puck would SO the way to play it would be by subscription
    4. The Mint knows the subscriptions numbers
    5. Once the subscription period ended, IF the numbers were out of hand the Mint would have instigated a HHL
    6. The Mint did not instigate a HHL…
    7….SO…the subscription numbers are not out of hand
    8. My Guess (No dog in the Hunt) would be Launch Day sales of 19,676…

  27. cagcrisp says

    @KCSO, the AM fix was $1,265.50 and PM fix was $1,254.50.

    That $1,265.50 fix is a problem…

  28. IPS_STUFF says

    you left out one big reason for no sell out on the TR P puck, that seems like the big elephant in the room right now… silver has been TANKING. If we had been pushing back to an area were the $149 price was in jeopardy, there might be more buyers.

    But I agree with your rational completely.

  29. Teach says

    I was thinking first day sales to be between 17.5 K and 20 K. I don’t see a sell out at this point, but it will be a high number compared to past P pucks.

  30. cagcrisp says

    You Really Really should NOT be buying any Gold from the UN Mint until Wednesday , (unless you just like contributing to the reduction of the national debt)…

  31. samuel says

    Theodore Roosevelt National Park 2016 Uncirculated Five Ounce Silver Coin is the first one with a real person on it, right?

  32. cagcrisp says

    @Gary Not Dave, “TR Bullion sales are dismal because the mintage is too high!”

    That shoot from the hip statement defies logic. What is the different between the TR mintage and the Other bullion pucks for 2016?

    Shawnee 105,000 Sold
    Cumberland 75,000 Sold
    Harpers Ferry 36,300 Sold
    Theodore Roosevelt 30,500 Sold

    SO…the same “too high” limit has applied to all 4 coins…

  33. KCSO says

    cagcrisp says
    OCTOBER 6, 2016 AT 11:07 AM

    @KCSO, the AM fix was $1,265.50 and PM fix was $1,254.50.

    That $1,265.50 fix is a problem…

    So doing the short hand math.., we need a $1,234.00 for a couple of fixes next week?

  34. KCSO says

    Sam, sans the granite Presidents found on Mount Rushmore, Yes, the first with an identifiable person with a name. And even likable at that.

  35. KCSO says

    Just FYI –

    Any TR fans or history buffs out there traveling thru DC or Northern Virginia, swing by the NRA museum, there’s a dedicated TR room with a wide range of TR office, personal artifacts, hunting trophies and firearm belonging to Da Man!

  36. cagcrisp says

    @KCSO, It’s not that bad to get a 2 Level Decrease. You need :

    1. The remaining 7 fixes to Average $1,247.14
    2, You need Wednesday PM fix to be under $1,250.00

    The problem with the Averages is you need to get below $1,250.00 SOONER vs. Later. Sooner helps much more than later.

    1 Level down is much easier. To only get 1 level down All you need is the Averages to be $1,311.43 and Wednesday’s PM fix to be below $1,300.00…

  37. Goat says

    The difference between marc’s order number and mine is 3000 orders. Given everyone only ordered one and I would think the orders for this coin were released at the same time for this coin only, via enrollments.

  38. says

    How many of you plan to just buy from the Mint or buy a graded Coin? And if you buy several from the Mint, do you plan on having them graded?

  39. Tinto says


    I bought a complete set in 2010 from the Mint and that was basically it for me with the “P” version. I plan to get one of the TR “P” puck because it depicts TR.

  40. KCSO says

    From Marc’s USS order number, I have over a 4,000 order spread,
    My latest order was placed last night

  41. Tinto says

    Order placed … I was going to wait and combine it with the RR C&C set but not taking a chance with the no HH limit.

  42. Buckeye says

    I do not think the Mint order site has ever run this smoothly order number 045432xx at 12:03

  43. Hawkster says

    Judging on how quickly the Mint website responded at 12:04, there was not a top heavy flurry of ordering taking place. The pages opened instantaneously.

  44. Teach says

    The lower the mintage the better. It won’t break my heart if only 17 K are sold for a final mintage.

  45. Doug says

    I don’t think you can judge the numbers on the TR puck today based on “lack of activity on this blog” because most of us here have been educated about doing a subscription if we really want the product. My confirmation came last night so I really don’t care about the time of release today. I am interested in the numbers so keep an eye on the blog but it just doesn’t correlate to other ordering problems.

  46. says

    It looks like a very light and lukewarm reception for Teddy. I’ll wait for the Reagan sets and add one to the bag then. Save a few bucks on shipping. We all need to step back once in a while and not get sucked into the artificially created frenzy for what are average products. Collect what you love.

  47. cagcrisp says

    For those that Believe in the 5 oz. ATB series, you Really need something Positive to happen.

    The TR pucks were supposed to be something Positive for 2016.

    SO…we have the Same divergence we always have.

    The Low Mintage people vs. the Demand people.

    I’ll Always be a Demand person…

  48. KCSO says

    Clark, belay my last, the order that was assigned Dumbpost on the USS order confirmation this morning is shipping Priority Mail now , wierd, though I’ll take it

  49. TomP. in Va says

    Phoned in order which was submitted at 12:04 with order #5433xx. Surprised to get through with no wait time. I’ve read here the speculation that the drop in silver price might slow immediate order interest but I wonder if Matthew is having an influence. I think more old folks like me are more likely to phone in orders and the storm affecting retirees in Florida and S. Carolina might have delayed orders. I was in a rush to insure the continuation of my collection of one each from day 1.

  50. gatortreke says

    Zaz says
    The one “fatigue” not mentioned is series. This is the seventh year of the ATB, folks, and won’t limp home into port for another 4-1/2 years in early 2021.

    I’m in this camp. I purchased one of each, bullion and P, up until this year but decided to stop the P as I needed funds for some of the other offerings as well storage space limitations. I’ll probably buy the collector version for the Roosevelt offering but otherwise, I’ll just stick to my bullion purchases from here going forward unless something really strikes my fancy.

    The 5 oz coins have been slow to catch on but Mike Meezak of HSN has started offering the bullion pucks for sale on his show so I wonder if this is a sign that these things are slowly gaining acceptance and at some point in the future, will be more coveted. Many other mints have also started offering this or similar size coins so I wonder if wider distribution and availability of coins this size will change collectors habits in the future.

    To Diana: Like you, I have a special coin (actually 2) I carry around with me. One is an uncirculated BHOF half dollar. It didn’t cost so much that I’m worried about the value of the coin so I just carry it around in my pocket and show it to people when it is appropriate to whatever conversation we are having.

  51. cagcrisp says

    Gold is Down $15.10 from when I got numbers yesterday. 4 of the coins I track went UP in price. Not just percentage Up, But Dollars up…

    $2.50 cleaned Liberty went up $8.28
    $2.50 cleaned Indian head went up $8.29
    $5.00 cleaned Liberty went up $6.54
    MS62 $5.00 Indian head went up $5.00

    This does not usually happen and given time IF Gold stays at current level prices will normalize.

    Supply vs. Demand…

  52. Rob says

    I was trying to be positive with the 5 oz. ATB series since I have most of the P versions, but not all. I still believe that the mintages are very low for a modern US Mint silver series. It will only be a matter of time before the supply dries up and the demand increases on these.

    Silver may need to get to $30-$40/oz. and we may have to have another series low mintage before this will happen, but even if not, 17K is still a low mintage number for a silver issue. I am holding out hope for the P series ATB’s even though the Teddy did not help to spark interest like I thought it might.

    Maybe if they pulled it at 13K minted it would . . .

  53. Goat says

    High demand past few years Gold/Silver but many ways to buy it . Fact is Au,Ag only true money in the world.

    @cagcrisp, or anyone;

    If all you don’t mind get some of your thoughts . The big question is what is the best way if we go into a cashless society ? Old gold/silver ? Bullion/proof gold/silver ? New gold/silver ? Or just any gold/silver that has weight/value amount with low premium to spot ? Sell all high premium and buy low premium for quantity ?
    Some say this will be the greatest transfer of wealth in our time. Now born with no spoon , looking to provide at least a spoon (silver would be nice) for our children/grand children. Any and all ideas will be helpful.


  54. Rob says

    To clarify:
    When I say 17K, I mean these are the coins that seem to be increasing in value the most. The ones that are approx. 17K or less mintages.

  55. ...John Q. Coinage says

    Super easy & no glitches…..order #–45435XX…..I guess 11k sales today, 15k after a week…. Maybe if bullion spot keeps going down the bullion TR pucks sell, o/w maybe a low mintage, maybe not…..tuff for flippers as they can be had & HSN would need to get $200+ each for their profit…….and hey the 2016 1st Spouse set is back, where did 2o15 go? that one never ret’d!!

  56. cagcrisp says

    @Goat. I Think you are asking some EXCELLENT questions. Questions that everyone needs to be asking. You must have a road to victory. Good for you to be asking.

    Will be interested in seeing some of the answers…

  57. Larry says

    @ goat – a cashless society can only work as long as the masses don’t discover that the Emperor has no clothes on. Pretend money only works as long as the masses have faith in it. Gold and silver require no faith.

  58. Throckmorton says


    Hard to plan for a cashless society with so many variables;

    My first instinct will (and is)to stack PM but what form will this cashless society take? Will the PTB (Powers That Be) confiscate everything and “reimburse” us in fiat bitcoin or will they just tax the living **** out of PM transactions. They cpuld make PM transactions only legal for government sanctioned dealers.

    At any rate, I think that a barter system would become a lot more prevalent with PMs being just another commodity to barter. …..but what happens if the PBT will summarily execute you for trading in PM?

  59. cagcrisp says

    An SLQ 70 just broke Below my Average target price for a PCGS. It’s the First. It will not be the Last.


  60. cagcrisp says

    Looking at bay selling prices for OGP SLQ since the Gold sell off and you will Probably come up with a Completely different analysis of sales than I do…

  61. Hawkster says

    It seems as though the hype that preceded the release of the TR P puck didn’t have the expected impact on the initial sales surge. Hurricane Matthew concerns? ATB puck buyer fatigue, as one poster suggested? Price of silver concerns?
    It should be interesting how the remainder of the ATB series will be embraced by the coin buying public, especially in light of the many obscure NP sites that will be offered.

  62. Larry says

    @ Hawkster, maybe folks are tapped out, with the added WLH and SLQ golds to the usual mint offerings this year. Plus, it seems the 5 OZ “P” coins just don’t do that well in terms if value. But I love em!

  63. earthling says

    I’m living in a cashless society here in SE Michigan. Crime, Scams, Beggars, Drugs, Boozers, ‘Toots, Cops on the take, Politicos on the take, we got it all.

    The biggest scam lately is the US government trying to deny everyone their Zanax. They say it leads to Heroin addiction. OK , so they’re slowly but surely cutting everyone off. Cold Turkey – no more 2 mg Zanax ( Bars) at a 2 cent or 1.5 cent per pill copay. So whats a pill head to do? Well they go out in the Parking Lot and Dealers are shoving Zanax in their face. Only $5 per pill – such a deal . The mark used to get 90 pills a month for a $1.20 copay. Now they can get only 1 pill for $5.00 ! How is that right? The same 90 pills is now $450.00 instead of $1.20. Thanks Uncle Sam, you, big Pharma, the M.D.’s , Medical Insurers, Street Dealers and Drug Countries are all in this one together. A person can get a “bag” of Heroin for $10 . So Uncle Sam is just trying to keep people OFF Heroin? Alrighty. Typical DC genius thinking – that one. Its all about rich people having one more way to get even richer.

  64. Dustyroads says

    Same here Louis, I went back and flipped the switch back on at the US Mint a week and a half ago.

  65. Mint News Blog says

    A conversation piece in your pocket — I like it! Coins are so easy to take for granted, which increases their potential for light-hearted mischief. Our publisher used to put worn Indian Head nickels in the vending machine at work; these would, in turn, pop out in change for unsuspecting artists and editors. And at least one numismatic author I know of would carry old coins to use as tips in restaurants. (Needless to say, he knew to the penny what each coin was worth, so the wait-staff never got cheated — although perhaps some of them never realized that.)

  66. cagcrisp says

    @Diana, I have a friend that sells Zep soap in 55 gallon drums to Most of the chicken processing plants in Arkansas. He used to drop a Morgan Silver dollar in the 55 gallon drum.

    He wasn’t trying to give away a Morgan, He knew that at some point they would pour out/use more soap than usual so as to get that Morgan Silver dollar…

  67. gary says

    When comments are made here about a “cashless society” is that with respect to the United States or to the entire world? I can’t envision a cashless world economy. What would the standard unit of value be to facilitate global transactions?

  68. says

    Goat, if I understand your question…..are you also referring to a collapse of the dollar and pm become the currency used to barter for goods?

    If so, I would go for quantity vs quality. You may go to buy/barter for food, gas, etc and produce a 1995-W silver eagle and say this coin is worth $3,500….and the merchant may say, what you have is an oz of silver….and that bullion silver eagle you’ve carried around in your pocket for 10 years is worth just as much..

  69. says

    @Louis…very nice article. It’ hard to figure out the decline of interest in the ATB’ s

    While the gold Dime sold 125,000 very quickly, I have trouble understanding why the Rossevelt P version which cost less and has a mintage limit of 30,000 without a HHL is not selling well.

  70. Barry says

    @ Steve- Anyone who has numismatic coins should have some bullion as backup to keep from having to selling their numis in a financial or other crisis.

  71. chris says

    Re : A conversation piece in your pocket

    I get amazed looks when I spend ordinary Sacagawea and President Dollar coins.
    I have also spent some “satin finish” mint set coins which stirred up some conversation.
    I don’t have a pocket piece but my choice would be one of the 1850’s gold
    dollar coins, a 2-cent piece, or a 3-cent silver “if/when” I can afford them..

  72. VA Bob says

    Goat – Forget the gold and silver. .223, .308, and 9mm (to name a few) will be worth their weight in PM’s.

  73. TNDuckHunter says


    I have every 5oz Uncirculated ATB EXCEPT that Hawaii Volcano puck you spoke about. I wasn’t impressed with it and was waiting for silver prices to drop so I held off buying. I watch the sales figures closely and it was still well below the average at the time so I wasn’t rushing to buy it. THEN SUDDENLY – THE US MINT SCREWED ME and posted them as no longer available. I honestly believe this was pre-planned because as I said – I had purchased every coin to that point and watched like a hawk how the coins were selling. The MINT PULLED THE PLUG EARLY on the Hawaii Volcano ATB and there is NO WAY anyone can tell me otherwise. It still chaps my A$$. I don’t recall exactly how long it was available but it certainly was WELL BELOW the average up to that point which is why I say it was obviously planned.

    Point is – NOW I DON’T WAIT. I Buy on first day even if I don’t like the coin because it could happen again. After all, I planned on getting all of them anyway. NOW I have to pay close to $800.00 if I want that ONE COIN which I have not yet bought.

    As the saying goes — He who hesitates, loses!

  74. Hawkster says

    Sacs and Presidential dollars are used to dispense change in the Boston Transit’s ticket vending machines.

  75. earthling says


    Im trying to withdraw from this bad Numis Monkey that has attached itself to my back. I work in the Auto Industry and it’s a mind destroying occupation at times. I used to order tons of junk while at work just to amuse myself.

    Now I’m thinking about retiring, maybe as soon as a year from now. I don’t think I want to stay in MI – this entire State is in really bad shape. I like to think of it as a 3rd World Country. Anyway, I sure as h*ll dont need every piece of junk the Mint puts out. Trying to “divest” the stuff I already have will be a job.

    I do remember the Hawaiian Puck well. I had decided the design was really cool, it seemed to capture the motion of exploding lava very well, I thought. Like you I was holding off a bit for Silver to drop and they slammed the door with no warning at all. So we got shut out. Nothing new for me. I hesitated on a lot of things in my life and have gotten shut out. I also have gotten lucky on a few things.

    This job, despite it being such a pain, is about the best thing I ever got into. It sucks, most of the time, but the money is OK. Too bad I can’t move into a more challenging area but when you’re stuck in a cesspool you just try to keep your head above the stuff.

  76. gatortreke says

    Goat asks: The big question is what is the best way if we go into a cashless society ? Old gold/silver ? Bullion/proof gold/silver ? New gold/silver ? Or just any gold/silver that has weight/value amount with low premium to spot ? Sell all high premium and buy low premium for quantity ?

    I’ll venture an answer but I’m the first to admit the future is cloudy to me.

    The first thing I must do is invoke Gresham’s Law, i.e., bad money drives out good. In the case of a cashless society, what do I imagine is the good money? I’d venture precious metals of any sort would be considered good money, thus none of it would circulate as it would be too valuable. PM’s would be reserved for only must have items or emergencies and if used, the lowest form would be as good as MS state coins so old, pre1964 would be sufficient for emergency circumstances. The good thing is this is the cheapest form to acquire at this time and they are all still readily recognizable to most as U.S. money.

    I think good (I use this term figuratively) old FRN cash would have value and thus would see limited circulation similar to PM’s. Th e positive is this is cheap to acquire before an emergency. All it requires is for someone to save it now but given America’s poor saving habits and high indebtedness, it is hard for me imagine many doing so so what is saved and held by the public would have increased value.

    That leads to what would circulate in place of cash if cashlessness were forced upon us. Umm, perhaps beanie babies or cabbage patch dolls? I really don’t know but I do know people are creative and resourceful so I have no doubt something would come to the fore. Heck, people used encased postage stamps during the Civil War and we’ve seen hard time tokens, wampum, etc… used at other times. I believe Zimbabwe used gas cards and/or cell phone minutes as currency during their hyper inflation crisis. The point is, something would be used and accepted.

    So , where does this leave me? Right now I am slowly acquiring pre-1964 PM coins as well as bullion coins and greenbacks but I am also open to other suggestions, I am not wedded to just these forms. I’ve considered diamonds as these have been used by people in the past but I know nothing of them and can’t honestly tell you I can distinguish a real diamond from a zirconium fake. This is a slow process but one I started several years ago so I now have a little (very little) diversification. I am not one of those who believe the world will end but I am also cognizant enough of past tribulations that disrupted people’s lives tremendously, therefore diversification can’t hurt, in this case slowly diversifying part of my financial asset base away from just electrons at the bank or mutual fund company to something more tangible in nature.

    I’m interested in hearing more thoughts on this matter.

  77. DBR says

    As far as being on topic, I can only say that I retuned to collecting way after the 5 oz. ATB quarter pucks emerged so I don’t collect them. I will say this though, I agree with one post here that said people just don’t know about them. They really showcase the coin’s design amazingly. I’d never seen a puck until I went this year to the World’s Fair of Money in Anaheim. The pucks are impressive as are the 3 inch medals. The photos and online images don’t do them justice.

    They just don’t fit my idea of a coin, however, and seem like art objects or other household items like paperweights. If you want to appreciate ATB designs though the 5 oz pucks seem to be the way to go.

    As far as a cashless society goes, I don’t see any nation on earth that has the stability and credibility (not to mention the legitimacy) to expect to enact such a dramatic change and have the country’s citizenry accept it.

    No one’s government or economy is that stable or sound. But the futurist dreamers will always push a cashless society. It must be in their minds an idea whose time has come. I hope not. Sounds like a get rich scam for corrupt leaders who’d like to implement it. Beware of those who have an unlimited love affair of “the new.”

    When currencies collapse and the governments fall with them, all the elites I’ve ever studied in history needed things that had value: precious metals, gems, and land. Of course as mentioned here in the blog before: food and water are very precious cuz ya can’t eat gold.

    Why does the movie Dune come to mind? “He who controls the Spice controls the Universe!!!”

  78. earthling says

    Didn’t the fledgling America feel overtaxed overwhelmed and overly enslaved by Great Britain to the point of armed rebellion? Well I’m beginning to feel like someone or something is beginning to exercise way too much of that type of control once again. It’s not Great Britain this time. Who is it? What is it? Why is it?

  79. MT says

    Some noteworthy updates to the product release schedule:

    NOV 17: Walking Liberty 2016 Centennial Gold Coin
    NOV 25: Limited Edition Silver Proof Set 2016
    NOV 29: Congratulations Set 2016

    (Still TBD are the American Eagle 2016 One Ounce Silver Uncirculated Coin and
    the Annual Uncirculated Dollar Coin Set 2016.)

  80. Erik H says

    Cashless system, if you’re picking up 90% US don’t forget we live in a global economy. Why not look into foreign .925 silver too? I like 10 & 50 French Francs (25g & 30 g 90% silver) along with others. Lots of cool designs out there for melt or slightly more. Go to your LCS & shows to find stuff priced when silver was cheaper.

  81. Asherspapa says

    Looks like the TR Puck cynics were right–as of this morning, it’s still available.

  82. cagcrisp says

    @MT, Thanks for the dates.

    140 days between dime and quarter
    70 days between quarter and half

    More money, less time.


    Now we will see if there truly is Product Fatigue…

  83. cagcrisp says

    Those that want in better get in. The Mintage and HHL will be announced within a couple of weeks ( or so I’ve been told)…

    Guesstimates for Mintage and HHL for the Walking Liberty Half
    earthling 200,000/1
    Mike in NY 75,000/1
    KCSO 85,000/1
    cagcrisp 100,000/5
    MT 75,000/2
    Yes, But…You Can’t Take It With You 50,000/1
    NcCoinCollector 75,000/1
    Louis 50,000/1
    longarm 100,000/1
    Tony 50,000/1
    Karl Meyer 65,000/1
    Paddy 70,000/1
    Tinto 55,000/2
    Gary not Dave 25,000/1
    Steve 60,000/1
    Big L 75,000/1
    Peter 75,000/2
    HarryB 75,000/2
    DBR 75,000/1
    zephin 55,000/1
    Old Big Bird 50,000/1
    baldwin 75,000/2
    Wilycoyote 50,000/1
    Mark Rex 40,000/1
    Montana John 125,000/2
    dave 45,000/1
    Mr. Kairu 60,000/2
    a Bob 80,000/1
    Big C 65,000/2
    Don 50,000/2
    ClevelandRocks 75,000/1
    Imaginary 65,000/1
    Jerry Diekmann 75,000/1
    MikeinPA 100,000/3
    smalltimecollector 45,000/1
    CF 60,000/2
    Joe M. 75,000/1
    Ikaika 65,000/1
    Ron 75,000/2
    Throckmorton 50,000/1
    achmed 100,000/2
    Dean 75,000/2
    beaver 100,000/2
    asherspapa 75,000/2
    Goat 75,000/1
    data dave 80,000/1
    JARHEADnFLORIDA 100,000/4
    Teach 50,000/1
    The Real “Cool” Brad 90,000/5
    gatortreke 80,000/2
    Vancer 80,000/1
    Dustyroads 75,000/1
    ike 50,000/1

  84. cagcrisp says

    As far as the TR P puck is concerned, I still think you guys are too Early on writing off the mintage. IF you were afraid of a SO, you went the Enrollment route.

    …SO before writing off, wait and see what the Enrollment’s + Launch Day were.

    You will know soon enough…

  85. Felson says

    I did the enrollment for the TR puck. I figured I have a hard enough time getting the mints website to work when the popular products are released and I can avoid that by enrolling for this coin, so why not.

    I’d be happy if the mint allowed enrolling for the upcoming WLH and save me the 20 minutes it will take to purchase it. That is if I’ll be able to do so…

  86. Sith says

    @Eric H – The problem with that is will a layman accept foreign silver? I have some Canadian junk silver, but most of it is US junk silver. If your looking to sell it once the price of silver recovers, and you can get it cheap…

  87. Indydude says

    WLH released same day as the release ceremony for the Fort Moultrie quarter in South Carolina. I will not be attending as I am all out of vacation for the year.

  88. Erik H says

    Sith, I travel the world and do know were I will be when SHTF or where I might want to go. What is recognize here may not be recognized there. My phone is book marked to a site that shows melt values of all world coins in USD (might be away to change to other currencies). Somebody talked about diversification in a cashless situation, this is one way if you think that maps/boarders could change. I’m sure I’ll be able to find a money changer wherever I go, profit always motivates.

    Either way I’m a collector and the history behind some coins whose countries no longer exists is interesting too (and it’s a lot cheaper than brand new US Mint offerings).

  89. cagcrisp says

    I see where the Austrian mint is coming out with glow in the dark animal coins to attract kids.

    That tells you a thing about where the world is going and to what extent Mints will go to attract new blood.

    I know some think this is a good thing.

    It tells me you don’t need to stray too far from Bullion…

  90. earthling says

    Whatever happened with Jade Helm 15 , which was some sort of Exercise in the South from Florida to Texas? There was a little in the national press about it but then it was as if the lid was slammed shut on it. Anyone living in the areas hear anything? See anything?

    1984 happened a long time ago. Big Brother wants into our money system now.

    Next thing you know, the Nazi SS will rise up again. Or …. are they already here?

  91. Ron says

    @earthling says :
    October 7, 2016 at 11:18 am
    Whatever happened with Jade Helm 15 , which was some sort of Exercise in the South from Florida to Texas? There was a little in the national press about it but then it was as if the lid was slammed shut on it. Anyone living in the areas hear anything? See anything?

    I don’t recall if it was Jade Helm 15 but a couple of years ago we had helicopters and military personnel attacking our harbor bridge that goes over the ship channel to our port and they (police and military) shut down the Interstate leading to it, until the operation was over. I also use to work with a guy who wrote a blog about the government, he ended up getting fired and his blog was watched by the powers that be. (South Texas)

  92. earthling says

    Jade Helm 15 took place last year in about July or August. It got my curiosity going because supposedly the locals were have meetings with their local Governments about it. Rumors said it was training for a disaster scenario from a Comet or Asteroid hit. Others said it was training for the imposition of Marshall Law over some sort of mass uprising .

  93. DaytonKen says

    I recently received 2 ATB 5 oz. TR quarters (16AM) and both have slight offset reverse images with a raised edge around the right side. Has anybody else observed this on their coins?

  94. Mint News Blog says

    Hah! I just saw this. I have a friend who sells industrial cleaning products to food-processing facilities. Maybe he needs to lay in a supply of Morgan dollars. 😉

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