Reverse Proof Gold Buffalo Sales Conclude

gold-buffaloYesterday, the four week ordering window for the United States Mint’s 2013-W Reverse Proof Gold Buffalo officially closed. The last sales figure shown on the Mint’s sales odometer were 45,912 units, although a final update will likely be posted later today.

Update: The last sales figure has been updated to 47,836.

The special coin was issued to mark the 100th anniversary of James Earle Fraser’s classic design for the Indian Head or “Buffalo” Nickel issued from 1913 to 1938. The popular design was also used for a commemorative silver dollar issued in 2001 and the American Buffalo 24 karat gold bullion and collector coins issued from 2006 to present.

Ordering for the Reverse Proof Gold Buffalo had opened on August 8, 2013 at 12:00 Noon ET and concluded on September 5, 2013 at 5:00 PM ET. During the course of the offering, a sales odometer placed on the product page was updated each weekday with an approximation of cumulative sales through all of the US Mint’s sales channels. All of the figures from the sales odometer are shown below, with the increase from the prior reading calculated.

Reverse Proof Gold Buffalo Sales

Increase Total Sales
8/9/2013 21,009 21,009
8/12/2013 3,874 24,883
8/13/2013 2,022 26,905
8/14/2013 2,548 29,453
8/15/2013 1,029 30,482
8/16/2013 692 31,174
8/19/2013 1,502 32,676
8/20/2013 1,410 34,086
8/21/2013 1,624 35,710
8/22/2013 547 36,257
8/23/2013 271 36,528
8/26/2013 786 37,314
8/27/2013 263 37,577
8/28/2013 1,284 38,861
8/29/2013 1,100 39,961
8/30/2013 843 40,804
9/3/2013 1,991 42,795
9/4/2013 1,683 44,478
9/5/2013 1,434 45,912
 9/6/2013  1,924  47,836

At last reported sales of 47,836 units, the Reverse Proof Buffalo represents the US Mint’s best selling numismatic gold coin since 2011. The sales total is more than double the current sales figures for all of this year’s numismatic gold offerings, and actually triple the current sales figure for this year’s regular proof Gold Buffalo.

Across all American Gold Buffalo numismatic issues, the Reverse Proof falls towards the upper range in terms of mintages, but remains far below the highest mintage of 246,267 reached for the 2006 proof. The issue does have the advantage of being the only reverse proof coin of the series and a special issue, which should help it maintain a higher level of secondary market demand.

Numismatic Gold Buffalo Mintages or Sales

Date 1 oz. 1/2 oz. 1/4 oz. 1/10 oz.
2006 Proof 246,267
2007 Proof 58,998
2008 Proof 18,863 12,169 13,125 18,884
2008 Unc 9,074 16,908 9,949 17,429
2009 Proof 49,306
2010 Proof 49,263
2011 Proof 28,693*
2012 Proof 19,675*
2013 Proof 13,921**
2013 Rev Pr 47,836*
*last reported sales
**still on sale

Looking ahead, there are no US Mint numismatic products scheduled for release until September 19. In the coming weeks, Mint News Blog will revisit some existing products and explore some designs for upcoming coins.

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  1. says

    With only 50k of mintage for this RF Buff compare with the 2006 RF Eagle with double the mintage. I’m sure this issue RFB will perform well in the secondary market in the coming years.

  2. Frankie says

    My guess is 48,000 or thereabouts. Let’s wait and see…

    One other sell-out occurred: 2012 United States Mint America the Beautiful Quarters Proof Set™ (Q5C)
    Not sure it will make a difference to secondary market prices though.

  3. simon says

    The collectors who purchased these units year after year should have a very nice set, exclamation point being the reverse proof buffalo.

  4. MarkInFlorida says

    Would be nice if they suddenly sold out of the regular proof.

    Got both my Mint and APMEX pucks today. Bullion ones have slight abrasion similar to those ones from Provident a few months back, where the APMEX were shiny and the Prov not. Guess the Mint’s quality is slipping on bullion. Since these will probably always be just bullion, it doesn’t matter too much, but shiny ones are much more enjoyable to look at. The P Puck looks fine.

  5. Louis says

    Mark- What was Ft. McHenry? Did the one from APMEX look like it had been polished like the ones a lot of people got from Provident for the Perry coin? So far this year my APMEX ones have been better, but I think it mainly has to do with what the Mint is sending out, as you suggested.

  6. MarkInFlorida says

    Yes, the 3 Ft. McHenrys I got today look like they were rubbed with a rough cloth just like the Perrys that I got from Provident, at the time that APMEX send out much nicer ones. I wonder if Provident has nicer ones this time. The abrasion is identical on all three, going from the Y in HENRY to the flag, to the lower bomb burs, like a reverse “S” and then to Maryland. So it must be a manufacturing issue. Maybe this is the kind of thing that made them start vapor blasting them.

  7. says

    Hi Mark,

    Thanks for the details on the Fort McHenry bullion.

    I’m not sure why the US Mint has trouble manufacturing these things. I’ve ordered five ounce coins from other world mints before and I generally have not seen these issues pop up. One reason I don’t really collect the AtB bullion is because I have such a tough time finding ungraded examples in good condition.

  8. thePhelps says

    CO – Mark… I got my 5 ounce P’s yesterday and they are gorgeous. I think this is the most unique coin so far this year.

    I broke down and bought a puck from APMEX and haven’t gotten it yet. I had been getting them from Provident as well and the last 2 were not good. Now it looks like APMEX might have the problem coins…not what I wanted to hear.

    I’ve yet to find 2010 coins and so far 2012 are hard to find reasonably priced. I’ve filled in the 2011 coins from APMEX and have to say all of those I’ve bought are fine (which is why I just went there for this one).

  9. Frankie says

    I was off by only 164 then. What do I win? 🙂

    Seriously, this mintage is lower than what I would have expected and will almost guarantee some secondary market appreciation. A lot will depend though on the price of gold…

  10. ABC says

    So, that’s 2,000 ordered in the last 2 hours of the sale for the RP Buffalo. I wonder why so many waited so long to order (unless a major dealer was responsible for the majority of the 2,000 units ordered). Even though this may be a 1 year coin, I think a mintage of near 50k is a bit too much when you compare it to the other coins in the series.

  11. Sith says

    CO, it is the specification that Congress mandated most 5 oz are only 63 mm while the ATBs are 76 mm

  12. Sith says

    The one thing that I found funny is all the reporting that the mint’s gold bullion sales were down last month, nobody bothered to look at gold numismatic coins sales.

  13. Sith says

    @ABC – I don’t collect the series (can’t afford it) but they said the same thing about the UHR at over double the mintage. If this remains a unique coin it will skyrocket in price and if not it would depend on the other RP’s mintage but this year should at least hold its own.

  14. simon says

    I ordered one in the last few seconds of availability. I actually wanted to be one of the last to avoid the rush, and am utilizing funds accumulated over a year from a 1% cash back card to partially cover the cost. The gimmick labels and tags don’t mean much to me – I just want a copy of this unique coin.

  15. Hidalgo says

    Even though there have been many last minute orders, I wonder how many buyers are playing the game of “let’s see how the RP Buffalos do the secondary market” before they decide to keep or cancel their orders.

    As we’ve seen with special American silver eagle sets, cancellations are to be expected…..

  16. Jim says

    I would guess that the number sold once the cancelations are counted will be around 40,000. There were a lot of cancelations from people who bought from the mint first and decided later just to buy a graded coin.

  17. joe says

    The 10 year anniversary for the gold buffalo is coming up in 2015 (or 2016 depending how you count it). I would like to see a high relief gold buffalo instead of a RP buffalo. It would be the best of both worlds…a UHR buffalo and not overdoing the RP for the Buffalos. Just a thought…

  18. VARich says

    ABC, et al., – could the ~2,000 adjustment be the mint adding the ANA sales into the total sold figure?

    If not, then those are unaccounted for, then you’re talking ~49.8k.

    It’s always be my understanding that only phone and web orders were reflected in the Sales Odometer. It I missed the addition of the ANA sales, my bad – if anyone knows for sure, please chime in.

    Jim – couldn’t agree more, at least 5-10% coming off the total – this was a retailers dream come true, just like the WP ASE – that’s got to change! Redbook needs a 2nd edition.., one for coins, and then one for labels.

  19. john says

    at the ana last month,I talk to some worker at the mint booth about cancellations.they told me next year they will be keeping a list of poeple that cancel alot and will not be able to order any more they said its has become a problem with some orders.

  20. fmtransmitter says

    Just opened up my first ever 5 OZ ATB FMH P mint mark. WOW is all I can say. Forget that it is silver, it is just one beautiful flawless coin produced from our great nations Mint. I love it and will cherish it and pass it down.

    On another note, people just type the key word silver in when buying on the bay because I just received two really nice silver coins for penny’s compared to two others I had to pay a premium. Same seller. The only difference was the seller hadn’t mentioned silver in the posting. The seller may not have know they were silver because they were World coins but I did. Homework. Cha Ching..

  21. sith says

    Got my FMH bullion and P version, the P version is nice, and the bullion is acceptable got it from APMEX

  22. MarkInFlorida says

    FTM, you know now you really need the rest of the 5 OZ ATB P set, don’t you? Much wiser expense than wine, lottery tickets and women!

  23. fmtransmitter says

    Yes it is Mark. Much, much better and wiser. Why did you have me think about all those thousands I have spent on such. Ugh..I am in for the Rushmore for sure but that is it. This thing is a monster and I like putting them in my pocket to show friends and co-workers from time to time. Like hey girl, come here, want to see what’s in my pocket? Trying to lug around good ol Ft. McHenry would be a chore. Ha.

  24. fmtransmitter says

    I got one extremely beautiful one at work from Great Britain whom I just adore her accent and I have been bringing in my GB coins lately to show her. Gosh that accent is sexy…lol Britannia just showed up, guess what I am showing her next?

  25. thePhelps says

    fm… I am afraid to speculate on the show and tell @ you work… I’ve seen videos of office fun and games… not that there is anything wrong with that!

  26. Ray says

    got my ft mchenry in the mail from apmex. i see the lines you’re talking about. i’m most likely going to return it. 5% return fee and return shipping on me, plus the original $11.95 for shipping. i’m going to mull it over for the next day and decide by monday morning.

  27. Erik H says

    Ray, It’s a bullion coin treat it as such. If you want a perfect coin buy a graded one, just remember so far there have been NO perfect MS70 5 oz coins only the “P” numismatic versions grade 70. I think that it’s because it’s such a big coin leaving more room for nicks & scratches which is why the “P” uses a vapor blast technique.

    Back on topic, I don’t think the 2,000 ANA coins have been added to the total so once cancellations are factored in & the 2,000 added I don’t think the numbers will drop much.

  28. gary says

    @ MarkinFlorida….

    90% of the money I spend is on wine, women and song. The other 10% I just waste on coins.

  29. gary says

    Just got my 2013 Perry’s Victory P Mint 5 oz. ATB
    A perfect flawless coin!

    I have seen many of the bullion 5 oz. ATBs form 2010 to present. Most, if not all, of them are junk silver bullion… water stains, gray spots, scuffs, nicks, uneven luster on one side or the other, etc. They will never be worth much more than a handful of bucks over the going price of silver. Even the graded slabbed ones have problems, such as milky (water stain) spots revealing themselves some time later in the slabs.

  30. stephen m says

    Can someone tell me how to get reimbursed for return shipping cost for an item returned to the us mint? Please.

  31. says

    stephen…yes you can. Just get a receipt for your shipping cost and include it in a letter to:
    2799 Reeves Road
    Plainfield, IN 46168

  32. VA Bob says

    Stephen M – Return the bad coins (it must be a return for a defect with replacement requested). Once the Mint has the coin (you’ll see it as returned on the Mints online tracking) write them a letter (sending a copy of the invoice is also a good idea), with a copy of the postage costs, including insurance. Always reference your original order #. It should take two or three weeks and you should get a check in the mail. Good luck.

  33. VA Bob says

    Good catch Steve. Stephen M it’s the same address as on the invoice or original shipping label.

  34. says

    I’ve had very few problems with the ATB 5 oz bullions coins. I’ve never had any with milk/water/ spots and 80-85% have been DMPL. I’ve only had a few of about 80 coins to be hazy with not much luster.
    I had several graded and still have my 2010 set…4 are PCGS MS69DMPL and one is MS69PL.
    I’ve bought and sold many 2010 sets as I got 6 from AP’s.
    I do agree that sets like the 2011 are selling at about the same price per oz as a ro;; of silver eagles.

    However, on 7/25, I sold a 2012 bullion set for $1500…or $60/oz. So yes, you can make money on some of these. Silver was $20/oz at the time.

    I thing I’ve found is you can sell for a higher price when selling a complete set than you can by selling them individually.
    If the person that paid $1500 for the 2012 bullion set had taken the time and effort to buy the coins individually, they would of done much better.

    Anyway, from the comments, it seems that a lot of the 2013 bullion ATB’s have issues. I only have 2 White Mountains…and they are both DMPL examples. But it seems like Great Basin and especially Perry are not struck very well.
    With the “P” version not costing much more than the bullion right now, I’m only buying them.
    Just got my Fort McHenry’s today and the one I opened is flawless.

    I’ve NEVER had a bad “P” version, so for those of you (like Samual) that have had to send back several, I feel for’s a dang hassle.

  35. samuel says

    Steve, i did not have a chane to open my 3 FMs yet, busy today. i used to be very nervious when open boxes form apmex, not i am nervious about USmint boxes.

  36. CW says

    @john, I hope what you say is true regarding people who cancel excessively. These individuals drive the cost of coins up for all of us. That goes for the ‘return a 69 hoping for a 70’ crowd. Both of these groups harm the hobby. I would love to walk a day in these people’s shoes. Everything must get to them.

  37. Athalon says

    Fifty K of a coin that will never be a hundredth anniversary coin again, should have some good vibes for the near future.
    Bought two and two ,of the unc liberty.

  38. fmtransmitter says

    I have some news for the bloggers, shipping and tracking number sent tonight for WP SE set. NOW, I am hoping for really nice coins and not returned ones. We shall see soon.Order date was 5/29 for those still waiting.

  39. fmtransmitter says

    Over 4 months to get an order. Sheesh, that was a first for me…Hope it doesn’t happen again anytime soon.

    For all who bought this gold coin, I have no doubt IMHO that your coin will go up in value. You have both gold spot, which was down, and numismatic value. I see it as a win win. Same with the pucks. Folks paid $80 more for these two years ago and you cannot find them for less than that so clearly those with the P version have winners and well, and for the non P’s, bullion is bullion.

  40. fmtransmitter says

    I know the Mint has a coffer full of over 31 million fiat pieces of paper right now from the sale of these. I would of rather had the gold. Hope they burn that paper or go back to silver circulated coinage to make this Country’s economy stronger. We need it right now.

  41. fmtransmitter says

    My idea is to add, for instance, $.25 worth of silver to circulating quarter. Just the psychological impact would be huge and make the rest of the World cringe and instantly say the US is back as the greatest economy on Earth.

  42. Ray says

    @Erik I’m returning it. It’s nothing like the other bullion atbs ive seen. its just a hazy chunk of silver, not a shiny mirrory bullion coin like ive seen from the 2012s. I wonder what changed at the mint? I didnt know about the GB bullion coin issues until this week. sounds like others got FM coins that look like mine. I can return it and buy another (P) atb, and thats what I’m going to do. I’ll eat the $20-25 in return fees. live and learn here.

  43. samuel says

    just open the 3 FMs, 2 of them have obvious water stains, and 1mm mark kind of thing on washington’s neck, both. the 3rd one, has a tiny ding on washington’s forehead.

    i bought 3, and ordered in the first 10 minutes, i think this sample is big enough to say that the mint does not have the ability to make perfect 5oz coins. i am not a picky person, but this is just too much.

    why this always happens on washingtion side?

  44. Tom says

    It would be interesting to know what the Real mintage
    of this coin might be if it was just collectors buying
    just one? maybey more like 30,000? Not Sure?

  45. ClevelandRocks says

    I’ve collected all of the pucks and have never received one with any imperfection.
    I’ve had problems with other Mint products, but never a 5oz ATB.
    My only ATB problem is with an NGC 69dpl Hot Springs with a milk spot.
    I’m suspicious that the slab caused this.

  46. VARich says

    @ Tom – it would be very interesting to know what the real mintage of the Buff would be if just collectors were making purchases. There’s a lot of various arguments to support household limits though if one was imposed for the first week, we’d get a good gauge what that would be prior to the household limits flood gates opening. At a minimum, it would curtail some of the asinine labeling making games that are being played by the retailers which I equate to the derivatives market – a fantasy but let’s make a market of it anyway. Ok, I’ve digressed, time to get off the label soap box until next year when the JFK’s come out, no telling what label games will be in-store to tarnish the fundamentals of the hobby.

    I’ll say this about the RP Buff – I think it was very well done by the mint (except for the ANA release which just goes back to my soap box) – it was a nice surprise to commemorate the 100th anniversary of one of America’s most historic coin designs, the coin looks specular, it was shipped on time, and mintage wasn’t through the roof.

    Now we wait.., will there be any variations like the UHR? Be neat to see a 3rd feather or missing leg on a few, but that’s wishful thinking. Out of 40+k, something may just pop up.

    The Buffalo has had a nice run, I’d like to see the mint conclude sales this year on bang and end the series on a high note. Perhaps set the stage for the Liberty series by introducing a new 24kt gold design. That’s probably wishful thinking as well, in all reality, with Ag back on the climb and a possible palladium offering next year, this will likely be the last of the Buffs many collectors will purchase (I for one) unless you’re into ‘chasing new lows’ and they’ll be more new lows for these to come over the next couple of years. Anyhoo…, it’s been an exciting 4 weeks for a great coin!

  47. stephen m says

    Thanks Steve and VA Bob. I’m returning 1 of the 4 WP sets for replacement and want to get return shipping cost back. Thank you.

  48. ClevelandRocks says

    I think the premium for the RP Buff will be determined by if they make one again in the future.

    So I just looked at all my ATB pucks and my favorite one surpringly is the El Yunque.

  49. VA Bob says

    VARich – Good points on the Buff. I’ve made that my ‘regular’ yearly gold buy, but wouldn’t mind to see a change, though I don’t expect one (maybe 2015, the tenth year would be a good ‘last’). Of course I’d like to see many of these long run series on circulating, especially the presidents on the 1, 5, 10, 25, and 50 cent pieces, and a return to liberty or Native American theme. All, except for a few, of the presidents are getting a dollar coin, so they are getting their due.

    The fifty year anniversary of the JFK is a good time to refresh that coin IMO, sending JFK off with a nice tribute. Then slowly phase out the others. Presidents have their place, but they aren’t what made this country great, it was the ideals.

    The 1 cent, could easily be produced only for annual proof and mint sets, to maintain a sense of continuity (and the price all ready carries a premium to cover the metals cost anyway), history and to show these coins would always be ‘spendable’ (you would just need 5 ‘pennies’ in order to use them).

  50. says

    This coin RF Buff will be very popular in the long term eventhough with 50k mintage since this is one time thing like the UHR 2009 with higher mintage. it will do well in the secondary market.

  51. Dan in AZ says

    If and when Gold falls to under $1,000 per ounce, do you think this gold (bullion based) coin will retain it’s high value in the secondary market, or would the only buyers be “collectors”?

  52. stephen m says

    Dan in AZ, it will be like most others i think, and the value will be different depending on if you want to buy or sell. Like almost everything.

  53. VA Bob says

    Dan in AZ – I couldn’t see anyone but a collector buying it, unless a bullion buyer can find one in a fire sale. The coin all ready has a premium well over spot price. Many won’t sell at a big loss and bargain hunters won’t pay the big premiums over spot. One must take the numismatic value into any calculation. I’m sure if gold plunged to the levels you mention, someone that needs cash may sell at a loss, but most collectors aren’t going to sell anyway or will at least wait for prices to recover. Bullion is an entirely different matter.

  54. DCDave says

    Dan in AZ – If and when Gold rises to over $2000 per ounce, what will happen to already overpriced slabbed gold items (ANA release). My guess is the “fad” will fade like the silver 1999 annual set fad from a few years back.

    Andrew – UHR is a unique coin, RP Buffalo is cool, but really is a different finish only. No comparison.

  55. Bryon says

    I got my RP a couple of days ago. I was worried I wouldn’t like it as the pics didn’t really show off the Reverse Proofness of the coin. In person it’s a lot better to look at and I’m glad I got it instead of the regular proof. My Buffalo collection which consists of all proofs but 2008 which I bought vice the proof because of the extremely low mintage making it the key coin. Now this RP coin is replacing my yearly proof again. The decision, like the 2008 reasoning, is similar but not due to mintages but due to it’s exclusivity as the reverse proof coin. I hope that makes sense. lol Either way I do like the coin and will keep it.

  56. sith says

    I just had to send one of my “P” FMH ATBs back…it was missing half of the capsule. The quality control at the mint is suspect.

  57. Ikaika says

    I received my FM ATB from the US mint. I have been collecting every single issue and this was my very first time I received a scratched and spotted coin. Not sure if there is an issue with quality control, since I ordered within the first min of sales and does not seem to be a return. Others have also reported this problem.

  58. Ikaika says

    Regarding the ANA labeled RP buffalo, I am just wondering how much these dealers will be willing to buy back these coins when its time to sell. I am almost certain that will be no different than the non-ANA labeled coins. The high premium appears to apply only to the label collectors.

  59. thePhelps says

    “Not sure if there is an issue with quality control, since I ordered within the first min of sales and does not seem to be a return.”

    Well let me speculate that yours is one of the first shipped – how could anyone else have returned a bad coin and the mint have packaged and shipped it out that fast?

    You got a bad coin that was missed by the quality checks.

    We keep hearing people say they must have gotten returned coins, but does anyone actually have access to the mints policy on handling of returned coins? I have no idea myself, but I suspect a coin returned is going to get checked at the bare minimum and if it has a defect removed and destroyed. It would serve the mint no purpose to send out defective coins a second time.

  60. VARich says

    FYI – to those tracking FMH BU quality – received my BU puck from MCM today.

    There’s light abrasion marks running from the 2 o’clock to the 7 o’clock position in the sky portion of the coin. There’s is also a lite haze strategically positioned around the fire burst.., which is kinda neat in that it appears like smoke. Certainly not the quality of the 2011 bullion & disappointing… though it is just bullion & the price was right.

  61. VARich says

    Oh, if anyone receives a FMH BU with a ‘Proof Like’ sky on the coin – please pass along where you received it from – thanks!

  62. thePhelps says

    @VARich – I am waiting on my APMEX coin to see what I get. I wasn’t going to order one of these this go around, but the FMH coin is probably my favorite so far this year and I thought why not. I pulled my P puck out to see what you might mean by “Poof Like Sky” and now I am kind of curious to see. If it is like the mirror like surface of the lake on the WM coin – I’d be really happy.

  63. fmtransmitter says

    No mirror like finish on the P version, has a satin matte look. I cannot believe you got a coin without the other half of the holder sith. That is not cool. I wish you the best to get a perfect coin if you choose a replacement.

  64. fmtransmitter says

    My holder was on so tight, I tried to remove to look at with cotton gloves and I gave up, didn’t want to crack the holder…

  65. Samuel says

    by the way, i got a great basin quarter at the park when bought ticket. i asked if they have more, the girl showed me a roll, but refused to give me more, she said she can only give another dollar worth of quarters, it turned out, there is another GB in it.

  66. fmtransmitter says

    Samuel, you should of showed her the GB puck. She may not even know they exist and watched her reaction. Say, that’s ok, I have my own GB quarter then watch the look on her face. lol

  67. Eddie says

    I received my 5 oz of FMH-P it looks great but the small one looks better as far as the fireworks are concerned.
    I like everyone else is looking forward to getting the Mount Rushmore 5 ozer. I will be getting 2 of the P’s. I am thinking about getting another FMH because it does look greaf.

  68. joe says

    I think the FMH coin is my favorite 5 ounce coin to date. Although I’ll pick one up, I’m a little disappointed with the Mt. Rushmore coin. It could have been one of the best, but only includes a couple of the presidents on the reverse.

    On a more general note, I think the puck series was decently done. It’s affordable, has a larger area for viewing the reverse images, is a good way to invest in silver, omits PC agendas, and provides the opportunity to celebrate each individual State with an iconic image. In short, one of the more practical series released by the Mint to date.

  69. Zaz says

    I’ve only ever had two problems on the 5 oz’rs from the Mint and I have them all. My Hot Springs has a tiny nick on the reverse rim, and Grand Canyon has a slight scratch on Washington’s neck but is otherwise unfinished as that side of the coin never received the vapor blasting. I might replace these coins later with a second copy, but I am not aiming for perfect and like the fact the small imperfections make the set unique.

  70. simon says

    I did order a copy of the Ft. McHenry 5 Oz P. The coin itself is a perfect strike with an excellent luster. There are a few residual evaporated droplets on Washington’s face. I’m not too worried about this issue and am keeping the coin.

  71. Sam says

    Just received my FMH P puck yesterday and am sending it back because it has water stains and nicks on the rim. Both my original and replacement WM P 5 oz coins had defects on them so sent them back and gave up on ordering another one because I got tired of the trips to UPS. Most of the P 5 oz coins I have ordered from the mint have had some sort of defect on them so I have had to go through the continual hassle of returning and reordering them. Am certainly disappointed with the mint’s quality control.

  72. C Catlin says

    I sent my 2013 gold buffalo reverse proof to NGC to be graded and it has been identified as a obverse planchet error. I understand that proof errors are rare, is there a likelihood this could be very valuable?

  73. Ray says

    What would a 5oz atb coin grade at with a small nick on the obverse rim? Every atb I’ve bought also have had at least a nick. That’s 5/5. I’ve kept 3 and returned 2.

  74. VABEACHBUM says

    @ Sam, Zaz and others who have mentions “nicks on the rim.”

    I’m curious as to whether or not the nicks you have identified are associated with the “edge incused lettering” that was added to these 5 oz coins.

    Specifically, I’ve noticed that the 3-section collar process that adds the information to the edge also adds 3 ridges to the edge – at 0, 120 and 240 degrees. When I have noted any imperfections along the rims of my 5 oz ATB or ATB-P coins, they always have been at either the top or the bottom of these three ridges, and always have been very minor.

  75. fmtransmitter says

    Just went over the entire 5 oz Ft Mch with the 10X loupe w LED light and their IS a slight vertical line on the obverse on the neck of Washington. Other than that, which is not at all noticeable under naked eye, it is flawless. Wonder if that would take away from a 70 since this seems to be a common issue. Also IMHO the TPG’s do not take away for spots, they look at the strike only from what I read.

  76. ABC says

    “We keep hearing people say they must have gotten returned coins, but does anyone actually have access to the mints policy on handling of returned coins? I have no idea myself, but I suspect a coin returned is going to get checked at the bare minimum and if it has a defect removed and destroyed. It would serve the mint no purpose to send out defective coins a second time.”

    Actually, there would be a reason for them to do it. It would save the mint the cost of having to produce another coin IF any one of the following happens:
    the customer who decides to keep it isn’t as picky about a coin’s condition, the customer decides to leave the package unopened so that he could later sell it as an unopened OGP (to those who want to take a chance that it might grade a 70) later on, or the customer might actually overlook the damage on the coin. Some collectors examine their coins under 5X, 6X, …all the way up to 10X (or maybe even a little bit higher). So, while a coin may appear to be perfect to one person, may look flawed to another.

  77. thePhelps says

    ABC – with the mint having to pay the cost of the return(s), and with the coin already having been rejected by the 1st purchaser, and the mint having a quality standard… it still makes no sense. If they do this like most businesses during production and packaging they would inspect a certain percentage of product to make sure they are consistent, but not every coin.

    It does make sense to have the returns inspected closer upon return and if there are no visual defects – returned to stock for shipment.

    Since they have been doing retail sales for a long time, I am also sure they have already done the known defect rate numbers and already have a percentage of product over run to cover returns. If there is a higher than expected defective return rate… it could cause a reshipment I suppose.

    Also granted – they could try and ship known defective coins multiple times hoping not to get a return eventually… but they also wouldn’t be doing themselves any favors in the long run, and I don’t see them doing it knowingly. They are known for shipping quality product and the majority of people aren’t sending coins back regularly. I’ve sent very few back for defects myself.

  78. joe says

    Speaking of shipping defect coins, the WP set I ordered four months ago is scheduled to arrive tomorrow. I am concerned about receiving one this late in the game and plan to return it and purchase a graded set online if it arrives in substandard condition. I would really like to have an ungraded example of this set thought…

  79. VABEACHBUM says

    Off Topic and an FYI to the Somalia Elephant Coins on this Blog –

    While making my regular check of the different retailers this AM, I came across some listings on MCM for “2013 High Relief Somalia Silver Elephant.” Graded examples; no OGP versions.

    While I don’t collect this particular series, these caught my attention because of my interest in any and all modern HR coins. Not sure if this is a first for this series. Still, I don’t recall any previous HR releases for these Silver Elephant coins.

  80. fmtransmitter says

    @VABEACHBUM: Be careful, these guys are just pumping out graded coins. They are right by NGC and have a direct bulk submission relationship. They could easily mis represent an item in their listing and call it something it is not like your UHR you saw. I always suggest to do your research. You say the NGC label states it is a UHR?

  81. fmtransmitter says

    I just checked, they are calling them HIGH RELIEF, not ULTRA HIGH RELIEF. I see them on the bay in OGP with a COA stating such. Around a little over a $100..

  82. fmtransmitter says

    IMHO just be careful. Mintage is just 1000 I read for this coin and although it is concave I do NOT see it stated as such on the NGC label. My UHR Kook says it on the label ULTRA HIGH RELIEF.

  83. VABEACHBUM says

    FM – I appreciate the input, but keep in mind that the Perth Mint and the RCM also issue “High Relief” Coins, vice the UHR terminology you have mentioned. And, while Perth uses the double concave striking process to accentuate the devices on their HR coins, the RCM increases the thickness of their devices from the flat fields of the their HR coins.

    Within recent years and to the best of my knowledge, UHR only has been associated with the US Mint’s 2009 Ultra High Relief Double Eagle Gold Coin.

  84. Sith says

    @VABEACHBUM – Just bare in mind that their is no Somalian government, and most people consider these coins to be rounds, very nice rounds but rounds neither-less.

  85. fmtransmitter says

    I am just stating the fact that the COA says high relief and the NGC label does NOT state such. My Kook label states UHR. Those are indeed facts, that’s all..Not gonna go there with the label bs, been beat to death on here, just stating facts….Interpret as you wish. Have a great day all! BTW my WP set even though has a tracking number has not been found on FEDEX or USPS..Hmmm…

  86. fmtransmitter says

    You are correct, my mistake…I just looked at the coin. High Relief. Off to work. Sorry about the confusion.

  87. VABEACHBUM says

    @ Sith – Thanks, and understand. Supposedly, this series in minted out of a facility in Germany. I previously have seen it referenced as “The Bavarian Mint.” Interestingly enough, the 1 oz “coins” are monetized at 100 Shillings. But, like you said, as there is no Somalian Gov’t, there’s no indication as to who the backer might be.

    Like you said, might be a “round,” but still very nice. And, for me, another HR coin to consider for my type set.

  88. VABEACHBUM says

    Thanks for the confirmation, FM.

    There are simply too many caveats in the coin world. “High Relief” coins that grade “Ultra Cameo.” It all begins to blend together after a while.

  89. Ray says

    all the AtBs except Perrys Victory are now on backorder. i’m starting to wonder if all the coins will reach the 25k limit. the price of 155 shipped is really amazing. man i love this series. i’ll report back what my 2 AtBs that I submitted to NGC grade as. They each have one ding on the obverse rim, which is very very small. i’m guessing these will grade as 69s, but thats a total guess as Ive never submitted coins to be graded before.

  90. KEITHSTER says

    C C very intresting please tell us more like when you ordered or when you got your coin?And more about the error will be nice to have a graded error in the RPB’s Best of luck to you and all that have them and also to those that don’t:>

  91. Sith says

    @VABEACHBUM “Emporium in Hamburg that had a contract with somebody supposedly representing the government of Somalia (or whatever is left of it), and apparently the Bavarian state mint in Munich”

    The Bavarian Mint (German: Bayerisches Hauptmünzamt) is a currently operating German mint located in Munich, the capital of Bavaria. It is currently one of several institutions throughout the eurozone permitted to produce euro coinage.

    The Emporium Gruppe is one of the world’s leading coin trading houses.The Emporium group has made agreements with a number of mints in recent years. We market their coins and medals exclusively in Germany. We would like to show you this small selection of coins from our “exclusive distributions”:

    African Wildlife
    Apostel Thaler Series
    Ships and vehicles
    and much, much more…

  92. Samuel says

    “high low silver says:
    September 9, 2013 at 11:52 am
    Does anyone else notice little bumps on RP Buffalo going from I in LIBERTY down to the T ?”
    if u zoom the pic at the mint’s picture, it show those little bumps.

  93. Samuel says

    hls, i actually just received my regular buff several minutes ago. i think because the regular pf background is so shiny, it is difficult to tell the bumps. again, if u zoom the mint pic, u will see the bumps on regular pf.

  94. fmtransmitter says

    @VABEACHBUM :Yes the ULTRA word in ULTRA CAMEO blended in my mind. I again am very sorry. In my mind I could swear it said Ultra H R. Thank you for understanding. If you decide to pop on that low mint HR Somalia, I hope it is beautiful and a great addition to your collection.

  95. fmtransmitter says

    @Ray: I suspect PV will sell out soon by either dealers or us end buyers as well IMHO. Great price.

  96. fmtransmitter says

    I found a link to the Elephant coins mentioned and will post under World Mint site above, if you go there, you will see a large selection that is being offered.

  97. CW says

    I rescind my previous comments on patience with the mint. I have lost mine. I ordered my RP on the second day at noon and still am seeing an expected to ship 9-8 date and backordered. Too bad it is 9-9. I am beginning to wonder if my coin was in the 2000+ coin stack that went to the ANA convention, contrary to their stated FIFO policy.

  98. Sith says

    @CW – Same situation here but I can wait as long as the coin is minted properly and comes in its capsule.

  99. Tim says

    I too will soon lower the number by 1 if they don’t send me this RP…..This has gotten to be sooo old……….

  100. C Catlin says

    Keithster – still waiting to get RP coin back from NGC and no picture posted yet on their site. Coin number is 2612011-002, a little more info on NGC site. I ordered it at 12:04 on first day (aug 8).

  101. KEITHSTER says

    Sweet thats about the time my order went in this could be big for you:) Should blow all the other one’s out of the water! And if it catches on may just have to open my box to take a peak:> Please let us know when you learn more! Best of luck to you and us :>

  102. GMS says

    Don’t ever trust the expected to ship on date, most of us have learned that by now especially with the WP eagles. My 7/19 order just arrived today.

  103. Shutter says

    I think the premium for the RP Buff will be determined by if they make one again in the future.

    Probably, but up to a point. The 2006 RP ASE still commands a decent premium, even though it has now become an annual issue, and the 2006 wasn’t a particularly small mintage.

  104. ABC says

    The RP ASE will not be an annual issue as the mint director has already said that they will not be issuing any more RP ASEs for the near future. It will only be used to mark special anniversaries.

  105. fmtransmitter says

    Question about paper. Teller today had several $2 bills. I just grabed 5 of the crispiest not looking. Found out they were semi sequential 1976 series star notes. She had already left when I went back to buy the rest. My mistake, I am not a paper guy but I know enough star notes are good and three zeroes in front of the serial number are good. Any idea what they may be worth?

  106. Addielise says

    @ABC, I thought he said there would be no special ASE set next year? But the way I interpreted that is it doesn’t necessarily mean they won’t sell the RP or even an enhanced uncirc ASE individually if they think they can make money off it.

  107. fmtransmitter says

    IMHO that is a mistake made by someone who touched the coin at the TPG and dug a chunk out. It is an extremely soft material in this state. The TPG said, “You idiot, what do we do now?” Walah, a mint error label. Plawease!!

  108. ABC says

    I was actually wondering the same thing. How do the TPGs determine whether an anomaly on a coin’s surface is due to the minting process (for example, strike-thru errors) and something (damage) that was done to the coin by someone later on?

  109. Ray says

    I’m thinking the same. Guess I’d need better images of the area in question, but in theory, this could have been done by anyone. How would they know? Ive been thiinking the same about some other error coins too. Some are clearly from the mint, while others just seem odd and questionable.

  110. Ray says

    I’m thinking the same. Guess I’d need better images of the area in question, but in theory, this could have been done by anyone. How would they know? Ive been thiinking the same about some other error coins too. Some are clearly from the mint, while others just seem odd and questionable.

  111. ABC says

    @C Catlin,
    The pictures of your coin are now on NGC’s website. I can’t see where the planchet flaw is. Can you describe the error?

  112. GMS says

    Looks like the RP Buffalo is doing the same thing the WP’s did as far as shipping. My 9/8 ship dates are now 9/27, might have them by Xmas!

  113. GMS says

    They have all pushed back Tim, just like the WP’s did. If you don’t already have your it may be next year before it ships.

  114. Sith says

    They moved my RP back to 09/27/2013. The funny thing is people are still saying their is no shortage of PMs but they can’t get WP, and the RP out the door, the hockey pucks are on delay, and they have been rationing bullion ASE all year.

  115. fmtransmitter says

    MCM and NGC are pretty much next door to each other. They have a VERY close relationship. MCM spends a ton of cash with them.Just an FYI. Every single coin MCM obtains, they send it over to NGC.

    On another note, I have now had to pay for a PO Box. My reg.Postal worker is on vacation and I have now had a second item put is someone else’s mailbox, PM’s! This is getting bad. Now I am scared my WP set will given to someone else in another Apartment, yes I live in an Apartment and if you do as well I highly suggest getting a PO Box to ensure you receive your PM’s. The last kid walked it over to my door, OPENED! I don’t expect my 2014 Kook to show up by a honest person. One can pray.

  116. Sith says

    @fmtransmitter – I usually walk those packages to my neighbor’s, I was tempted to keep one once but I didn’t. You open the packages because you just assume they our yours. My parents had a worst situation a bunch of punks were taking mail any mail out the mailboxes, including bills letters boxes.Anyway most of my PM deliveries require a signature, its a pain in the behind but I usually just go to the post office office, UPS or FedEx the next day with the delivery card. I hate the mints UPS policy as you actual have to call the mint who then calls UPS to allow the coin to be picked up at their facility.

  117. Hidalgo says

    Gold and silver prices are falling again. The US stock markets are rallying for a second straight day and tensions in Syria are easing. We’re still not out of hot water, but when the Syria crisis shows signs of ending and when it finally ends (whatever the outcome), we can expect oil, gold, and silver prices to continue to fall.

  118. Zaz says

    @fm: PO box for more than a dozen years, everything goes there. All it takes is one wrong delivery and some enterprising nosy neighbor or their “friends” they tell might want to know if you have more gold, silver in your residence and pay your place a visit when you’re not home. Don’t mean to make anyone paranoid but I’d probably move or get a big dog because word will get around the building that there’s a coin collector or precious metal collector living among them. Coins and PMs are easy to transport commodities that can hold massive amounts of value and thieves know this. USPS makes tons of these delivery mistakes every single day.

  119. Brad says

    My WP order of 6/6 at 4:59 pm ET will be shipped out by tomorrow or the next day. So, if there is any truth to the FIFO shipping method, it should be safe to say that ALL WP sets will be shipped out prior to 9/30. That should allow an accurate count in the annual report of how many sets were actually shipped. It will be interesting to see how many were cancelled.

  120. simon says

    FedEx used to do the shipments through the “Fulfillment Center” before PBGS. They were professional and prompt. I prefer them to UPS – most definitely. As for USPS I would suggest making a call to the Post Office and suggesting that they be more careful with their deliveries.

  121. MarkInFlorida says

    I also use a PO box for all my mail. It’s safe and dry and in the box first thing in the morning. Now they tell me they can email me when a package arrives. I need to check into that.

  122. fmtransmitter says

    I did call twice. They said they would take care of it. Still going to get a PO Box. ADP alarm company has been called for service also.

  123. Tim says

    You are spot on concerning the former ‘Fulfillment Center”. It was sooo much better back then. Not hard to believe that they would screwup a very good system, but they did……….

  124. C Catlin says

    Keithster –

    NGC says they should have labeled it mint error vs OBV Planchet Flaw. They want it back to fix the label and will review again to tell me where the error is.

  125. says

    Hi Dee,

    Your 5 oz Quarter Set of 5 coins is showing up in our online database as SP rather than MS coins. Order #

    Can you please verify that your coin holders are showing up as MS and not SP.

    We would like to correct this in our database and hoping you can confirm your coins are showing MS. If they are showing differently we can correct it and apologize for the inconvenience of shipping the coins back . However, we would reimburse you and also give a free voucher for your troubles.

    Can you send us a scan of one of the coins?

    Thanks and sorry for the inconvenience.

    This was a label error by the grading company. Does this give more value to the coins for the error?

  126. David says

    Anyone have shipping dates from the mint prior to 9/27? I ordered on August 10th at around 4:00pm, and the ship date is showing 9/27. It was 9/8 until early this week. Wondering if anyone still waiting has an earlier date….

  127. Scott says

    Same here, placed my order early on 8-12 and the ship date was 9/8 until about a week ago, now it’s 9/27. I hope it’s not a repeat of what we went thru with the WP silver eagle sets.

  128. David says

    Update to my status: As of today the US Mint is saying “In stock and reserved”. Hoping it ships out soon. Keeping my fingers crossed for you, too.

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