Revisiting the 2012 San Francisco Silver Eagle Set

The 2012 San Francisco Silver Eagle Set was one of the United States Mint’s most anticipated product releases of the year. Each set contained one 2012-S Proof Silver Eagle and one 2012-S Reverse Proof Silver Eagle.

Product sales began on June 7, 2012 at 12:00 Noon ET with pricing of $149.95 per set. Rather than establishing a maximum product limit, as had been done for similar products in the past, the US Mint would accept orders during a four week ordering window and produce the sets to meet the total demand. A sales odometer which was updated daily gave collectors an indication of the progress of the offering. Sales officially closed on July 5, 2012 at 5:00 PM ET. The last indicated sales total was 251,302 sets.

Less than two weeks later, the US Mint revealed the Making American History Coin and Currency Set, which would contain the 2012-S Proof Silver Eagle. Many customers were upset since they felt it had been strongly implied that the coins within the San Francisco Set were exclusive to the offering.

The US Mint responded to concerns with statements that included the following: “In retrospect, it may have been appropriate to announce our intentions to produce the coin and currency set earlier in the year or perhaps simultaneously with the two-coin set.” At the same time, the US Mint assured customers that the 2012-S Reverse Proof Silver Eagle would not be offered within other products.

The first of the 2012 San Francisco Silver Eagle Sets started to ship to customers on July 27, 2012, with arrivals reported shortly thereafter. In response to a recent inquiry the United States Mint has indicated that they have now shipped nearly 150,000 sets, and that all shipments are to be completed by the end of October.

There have been some anecdotal reports of order cancellations for the San Francisco Sets, especially following the revelation that one of the two coins would not be exclusive to the set. The US Mint was not willing to provide an updated or adjusted sales total or provide specific information on the number of order cancellations. However, they will release the final number of products issued when the program closes in October.

On the secondary market, prices for the sets remain above the issue price. A quick survey of eBay auctions completed within the past few days show the prices realized for raw sets mostly falling into a range of $180 to $190, compared to the issue price of $149.95.

Sets which have been graded by PCGS or NGC and received the top grade of Proof-70 have sold for premiums above raw sets. Sets with the two coins graded PCGS PR70DCAM and PR70 have recently sold for prices around $425 to $450. Sets with the two coins graded NGC PF 70 Ultra Cameo and PF 70 have sold for prices around $300 to $325.

Compared to past special sets, a lower proportion of coins seem to be receiving the top grades. Data available from PCGS shows that approximately 35% of coins graded from the sets have received Proof 70 grades. By comparison, more than 50% of the reverse proof Silver Eagles included in last year’s 25th Anniversary Set received the top grade from PCGS. Data for NGC graded coins was not readily available.


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Comments

  1. In the middle says

    Of the 5 sets I ordered, 3 sets I sent back because of obvious blemishes on the coins with the naked eye. I sent 2 sets to be graded, one set was 69 and one was 70. Overall I am satisfied because I got my goal of one 70 set.

  2. Broooster says

    Of the 3 sets that I ordered, I have briefly looked at 1 set, the other 2 sets I have not had time to check out yet. I am hoping this long weekend will allow me to spend some time checking out some recent purchases a little closer and get my collection a little more organized. As far as the 1st set looked, I was totally pleased. I hope the others are the same.

  3. Brad says

    I can’t wait to see a revised number of how many of the 2-coin sets were actually shipped. I think we’re all expecting the actual number to be lower than the 248,875 for the 20th Anniversary Set, but it could come in a few thousand lower still. Maybe in the neighborhood of 235,000 by the time it’s all said and done.

    I sold four sets to a local coin dealer the other day for $162.50 each, since that allowed me to make a few more dollars profit per set than eBay would have (by the time you factor in their fees, PayPal’s fees and postage/insurance). It also left room for him to make at least $15-$20 profit per set himself. I didn’t mind taking the smaller cut, since I still did better than I would have online. Plus, he’s given me good deals on stuff in the past, so it’s always beneficial to maintain goodwill!

  4. dan says

    I am an OGP kind of guy but how does one really justify the difference in price between the PCGS and the NGC graded coins. Is there really that great a difference?

  5. Frankie says

    Does anyone know at which silver prices the Mint will adjust prices for the eagle proofs and the atb 5oz coins? Silver just touched $31.50/oz and if my memory serves me right this was the level when prices were adjusted downwards for the atb coins at least.

  6. joe says

    Kind of interested observation that I have regarding PCGS and NGC…

    I have purchased the last few releases of gold First Spouse Unc PCGS FS coins. Recently, I took them out to look at them and each of them appear to be toned and even blemished. They didn’t appear that way when they arrived, but the coins now seem to be “aging.” I have never had a NGC coin morph like that, and I would be surprised if any of them deserve the MS70 grade at this point. I don’t know the cause, but it is a bit disconcerting. I will think twice about purchasing more of these FS coins with the PCGS grade…

  7. simon says

    Joe – this toning is a well known (by customers) and thoroughly denied (by PCGS) fact about PCGS encapsulated gold coins. Should you return them to PCGS they will simply etch the coins and return them to you “cleaned.” PCGS trashed some of gold coins which made me conclude that they are totally unconcerned and utterly disingenoius. Here is an
    example :

    http://www.teletrade.com/coins/lot.asp?auction=3309&lot=1396#n

  8. Gary says

    I am gonna call the Mint and complain that we dont have enough Silver Eagle Products this year! I want a 4 coin reverse proof set….San Fran..West Point..Philly..Denver….and of course UNLIMITED mintage so everybody can have at least 2 sets a each!

    Who is with me! ha

  9. Tom says

    I like NGC holders better. In PCGS holders the coins sometimes appear to have some type of gummy junk holding and obscuring the rim.(I always like to see a good and sharp even rim on a coin ) And for some reason, some gold coins seem to like “Tone Up” in them. Like my 06 W quarter oz. Its now sort of dirty golden coppery brown. I don’t understand why?
    NGC’s also look like they would better withstand a drop off a building, (although I haven’t tried that).
    As far as grading, pcgs 70’s may be alittle better. Although I’ve seen 70’s
    from both companies that definitely should have been 69s or lower.
    I can pretty much always find something wrong with 70s from both companies, and quickly with out any magnification.
    One of the onlys true 70’s I’ve seen is my 07 W quarter oz. and it hasn’t and will not be seen by either company, because it looks just fine in he Mint box it came in (and it Isn’t Toning either).
    Buffalos also look Way better in their Mint Boxes too.
    ( Wish I had more than one).

  10. tonyrigatony says

    It has become a label game. The 3rd party graders are becoming the ones who will prophet the most!! Do you want the golden gate or cablecar?, or signed by an engraver or President. Sorry !! you must submit 100 sets or more to get the label you desire.. Or pay double from T.V or E-BAYor any big Co.

  11. Shutter says

    Mint: Liar, Liar, pants on fire!
    Regarding the Making American History Coin and Currency Set, the mint promised: $5 notes that begin serialization with the number “150.”. Well that appears to be a lie also. See Coin World article today.

  12. Frankie says

    I’d recommend everyone who hasn’t placed their orders for the ATB pucks or eagle proof & uncirculated coins from the Mint to do so over the long weekend – silver is very bullish right now (chart: http://www.kitcosilver.com/charts/24hoursspot.html) and it’s just a matter of time until the Mint will raise prices for these coins again.

  13. Michael in Bama says

    I just returned 3 sets for the second time for replacements, THIS IS GETTING OLD!!!

  14. John says

    I ordered 14 sets, 8 on day one and 6 before the shipped date changed to October from September. So far I flipped 6 which paid for the two I will keep.

    This week I canceled 4 of my remaining 6. I don’t know if I’ll cancel the last two or hold for the long term.

    NCG vs. PCGS: I like NGC holders better especially for the 5 oz ATB! Mostly, I keep coins in OGP, I also have a few classics that are slabbed. If the coin has been circulated and is not rare I sometimes crack them out of their tombs.

  15. joe says

    Simon –>> Yep…that is what I am seeing. What the heck are they doing to the coins to make them change colors so quickly (if at all)? Storing them in an oven? Craziness!!!

    This conversation made me recall a 2008 1/10 oz Gold Buff (PCGS MS70 FS) I purchased in 2009. It, too, was severely toned, and the seller made sure to mention it. I don’t mind toning, but I do mind artificial toning; especially if it is due to incompetent graders or grading companies (regardless of the company).

    I am with Tom…I like the NGC coin holders better too, but unlike John I don’t like the NGC ATB 5oz holders. The darn things are just too big and take up too much storage space (which is a premium).

    While PCGS coins seem to have developed a reputation as being the top grading company (which I don’t understand based on my personal experience), I like the fact that NGC doesn’t have a snobbish air when you deal with them on the phone.

    The most important reason why I like NGC over PCGS is the ability to see images of the coins at NGC’s website. If I have to purchase a coin on eBay, I always check to see if there is a detailed image available at NGC. If so, I feel completely comfortable validating that the coin is not counterfeit. Even the best counterfeiters will not be able to duplicate every little flaw in the coin and the coin holder. The images stored on many NGC coins give me a peace of mind, and I pay extra to have the coins I send in to NGC imaged on behalf of others. PCGS coin images are only available if the coins was sold at auction somewhere (at least as far as I can find), and then one has to assume the auction house didn’t auction off a counterfeit.

  16. Billy says

    when bidding on line – I will only bid on slabbed coins. I once bought a $100 coin on ebay that turned out to be counterfeit. I thought I got a good deal as it listed for $500. In the photos it looked genuine. but once i had it in hand it was questionable. I sent it in to be graded and they said the same thing Questionable Authenticity. I guess I was lucky. I have heard of people paying $2500 for counterfeit coins. by the time I had confirmed counterfeit documentation it was too late as the seller had closed their ebay account. But I later found out that ebay does not actually close accounts until after 6 monthes etc. So I might of been able to get my money back – but I did not know about the 6 month delay of ebay’s seller accounts. I had never requested refund because the seller had closed their ebay account.

  17. Silver Eagles - grow wings says

    I’ll wait for the little tyke that grandma gives the set to; to sell it at the local melt shop and then i’ll pick them up for around 10 bucks over melt – with the type of premium the Mint Charges our National Debt shouldn’t be as large.

  18. simon says

    Joe,
    The encapsulation process is at fault. They use ultrasonic (high) energy to seal the lids. I just DISAGREE with the entire process. Can you imagine ultrasonically shaking your precious coin – it can tear it up if it is done for too long. These “toned” coins do not sell for a premium because they have no visual appeal despite the grade. BTW gold does not react chemically to tone or oxidize. What you are seeing is probably a layer of some kind of lacquer on the coin. This has led me to avoid TPGs at all costs. They will ruin your coins if you are not careful. BTW I have coins in USMINT OGP which are over 20 years old. They are still pristine and shiny.

    Tom : some type of gummy junk holding and obscuring the rim
    This very likely results from the ultrasonic energy making the coin
    shake and cutting into the plastic

  19. John says

    joe says:
    August 31, 2012 at 5:34 pm

    The most important reason why I like NGC over PCGS is the ability to see images of the coins at NGC’s website. If I have to purchase a coin on eBay, I always check to see if there is a detailed image available at NGC.

    ME TOO, This is one reason that I haven’t bought a PCGS holder coin in a while. I guess “Secure Plus” holders are better but I haven’t found any coins that I want in that type of holder yet. However, I have purchased a NGC with CAC stickered coin.

  20. joe says

    As Billy says, I will only buy slabbed coins because I am not an expert at identifying counterfeit (other than by weight).

    Simon – I have a lot of coins I purchased directly from the mint over 20 years ago…some are still pristine and some are now showing their age. I do think that NGC seems to take more care with coins, whatever the process is.

    John – I have started picking up some PCGS and NGC with CAC. But again, those that I have purchased I was able to find images of for comparison. With the Fed cranking up the printing presses, I don’t expect that I’ll be able to afford PMs much longer.

  21. says

    Regarding the Making American History Coin and Currency Set, the mint promised: $5 notes that begin serialization with the number “150.”. Well that appears to be a lie also. See Coin World article today.

    What is going on with the Mint this year? The issue with the empty product schedule early in the year, the wait for the AtBs and the MIA First Spouses, and now this. I am really glad I passed on the coin & currency set. I wonder how many of these sets don’t have the correct bills in them or if there is anything unique about the “error” bills.

  22. Paul says

    O wish the mint would change the reverse every year, like on the Platinum Coins. The eagle reverse is very boring. I only buy the anniversary sets as I do not want to collect bullion coins that are basically the same coin with a different dates.

  23. Paul says

    I wish the mint would change the reverse every year, like on the Platinum Coins. The eagle reverse is very boring. I only buy the anniversary sets as I do not want to collect bullion coins that are basically the same coin with a different dates.

  24. Shutter says

    The issue with the empty product schedule early in the year, the wait for the AtBs and the MIA First Spouses, and now this.

    The mistake that is more similar to this is inclusion of silver half in the birth set. Also involving SF mint. Sure, in that case, the mistake benefited the customers, but it definitely shows a certain degree of carelessness.

  25. alva says

    Hsn and mike mezack got caught with the SF eagle set. With the problems of grading 70s fron ngc and pcgs how did anacs got 2700 plus 70s on day one lol oops mike you got caught. He didnt know the coins will be low quality from the mint. Everybody knew anacs 70 is not really 70. Now theres no dought hsn and anacs cheat and give all coins a 70. Its too obvious now with this problem coins. 2700 plus sets in 70 on day one while pcgs got that like in a months time. LOL

  26. Tom says

    Thankyou Simon,
    That certainly sounds like it makes Sense.
    I would say alittle too much emphasis is put on the “graded” coin when
    most of the Mint issues are Already Just Fine and Dandy in their Mint Condition ANYWAY, and Very Often I have found all kinds of imperfections on those All Too Elusive 70’s, Yea, Right! like evey its like every other one anyhow, unless you get on in a bad run..
    Their almost is no such thing as a perfect 70, better Coins are most often
    sitting pretty in there mint boxes just where they belong.
    No toning in a fresh factory Mint holder,as far as I can see.

  27. Tom says

    Also I would say for the most part, ancs coins are Very much in line with the rest and with argueably better holders than pcgs. for that, matter I have seen some terrific ICG coins,yet their holder do seem to srcatch up too easily. From what I have heard most of the graders have worked for each others companies anyway so the end result is pretty much the same..

  28. joe says

    Tom – Not my experience from the Mint these days. Yeah…perhaps 20 years ago, but not today. Because of that I typically order two coins and return one, and that’s even a 50/50 proposition. I ordered two of the most recent ATB coins, and both were marred. I couldn’t tell you if other Mints’ quality is worse, but I do know that I refuse to accept shoddy coins for the premium the Mint charges. If the Mint was charging bullion prices, then I would be happy with what I was receiving. JMHO.

  29. ClevelandRocks says

    Wow, sounds like you can flip your 25th sets for like $20 each. So if spend an hour of my time and a few dollars of gas money, I could make almost $40 of profit on my two sets for my hour of work…..

    I saw (did not buy) the 225th San Fran Mint/ Bureau of Printing and Engraving set. Not impressive at all. Thanks Mint for making us suckers.

    If you have 25th sets you should cancel your pending orders to maybe make your current sets have a little more value…

  30. Samuel says

    i returned 2 sets for refund. i had the money credited to my credit card account, also received email, saying 2 sets were backordered and exp ship 8/31. what does that mean? they will ship me 2 sets for replacement?

  31. Samuel says

    just back from a 2-week business trip, seems lot of stuff happened. received an email from a famous dealer saying another dealer is “bad mouthing” him etc. what happened?

  32. Bryon says

    When it comes to new collector coins I fully expect a perfect coin from the mint. Grading companies statistics show that the large percentage of their coins grade 69/70. So I find that I won’t use a TPG on these. I’ve sent one first spouse, Dolly Madison 2007, in to NGC and with my magnifying glass showing no imperfections and it came back graded 70.

    When it comes to buying off the television shows I pretty much won’t do it anymore. They seem to be all about the label and the coins are a secondary focus. Whatever happened to the collectors adage of buy the coin not the holder? I could give a rats rear end whether it’s labeled with useless extras. The first strike or early release terms have always been a farce and the person who thought it up was a genius. I hope he’s getting some coin for it. Just putting the term “box 3 of 20” on the label means nothing like the others when it comes to value. I guess the stupid label quotes have become a bit of a pet peeve of mine.

    I’m still hoping my set I ordered shows up in time for Halloween. This is the longest I have ever had to wait for my order. Let’s hope it show’s up in perfect condition. I’ll be sure to let people know if it’s screwed up.

    Everyone else good luck with your sets.

  33. Mercury says

    In quest for the perfect 70
    Considering the rate of returns, I wouldn’t put it pass the Mint to simply start recycling those returns and pass them along to those who ordered during the latter half. From what it sounds like, the Mint would have to had produced at least a few thousand extra 2012 sets just to replace the ones being sent back. Perhaps a more appropriate title for this article should be “Old Wounds Reopened”

  34. Jack says

    I really do not know how the US Mint inspects their premium priced “mint” coins without rejecting virtually anything less than a coin graded at 70 or 69. Why do any of us pay ridiculous prices for anything less than perfect? The mint ought to be inspecting random samples from each batch of coins underneath at least a 10x powered microscope. I had only ordered 3 sets of these coins and unfortunately had to send two sets back because of scrapes, gouges and other very obvious marks that never ever should have been released to the public. Shame on them for doing so. Thankfully they recently did reimburse me for the return shipment via 2 day USP service. Now I’m waiting another 2 weeks until I receive my other two replacement sets. I expect “mint” coins from the Mint and these should be virtually unblemished as far as I am concerned. And as to the situation of the Mint having their virtual countdown and then proceed to sell more coins after that countdown ended … there’s almost nothing worse than trying to hoodwink your very own repeat customers with a fake countdown … well, almost nothing worse to me except than continuing to sell less than perfect and virtually unblemished coins to the public for a premium price.

  35. says

    Samuel,

    Welcome back, I’d been wondering where you were.

    You should go over to WMNB and check out the Snake thread! 🙂

    I got that email from MCM too, but I don’t really know about the details.

  36. white lightning says

    If I wanted to collect all 2006 silver eagles would there only be four?
    2006 w proof, 2006 w uncirculated, 2006 p reverse proof, and 2006 gem uncirculated.?

  37. white lightning says

    Also wanted to know about the 2012 silver eagles. Would there be five to collect this year? 2012 s proof, 2012 s reverse proof , 2012 w proof,
    2012 w gem uncirculated, 2012 gem uncirculated from mint roll of 20???

  38. Richard W says

    I’m waiting on two late deliveries.I have no slabed moderns and also believe the mint should be delivering as close to perfect material as possible.I don’t believe that dcollector are getting the message across to them I have said boycot in the past and I’ll say it again BOYCOT.If it dosen’t satisfy you send it back or just don’t buy and stop sending this modern material to the Graders of any name,you know if the quality is good enough to satisfy your needs.

  39. Jeff in TX says

    I wonder what happens this time as silver starts its climb up word to $60. If people will buy more eagles or wait to see. See if it stays there or dips down. I think too that this could put this out of reach for many collectors. Plus if the mint puts a return fee in place.

  40. Richard W says

    If they put are return fee in play it ‘ s over for the collectors relationship with the mint.

  41. joe says

    If the Mint puts in a restocking fee, I will no longer do business with them. If their quality was sufficient, I would happily take the risk. However, it isn’t, so I won’t.

  42. Richard W says

    I don’t believe we want $60 silver,jimmy carter was president in 1980 silver went to nearly $50 we also had $800 gold.my father in law lost his butt.We had has rationing and 17% inflation.People were shooting each other in the gas lines.

  43. Shutter says

    white lightning,
    You’re correct. Except that 2012 bullion coins were (are) minted in both SF and WP mints. If you wanted both you’d have to get certified coins.

  44. Shutter says

    in 1980 silver went to nearly $50 we also had $800 gold.my father in law lost his butt.We had has rationing and 17% inflation.People were shooting each other in the gas lines.

    Silver also went to nearly $50 in 2011. Gold and Platinum reached nearly $1,900. No one got shot buying gas.

  45. Shutter says

    There was no gas rationing in 2011 and little inflation.

    True on gas rationing. You don’t need to ration if you just raise the prices high enough. Inflation only seems low because the government changed how they calculate it. Mostly by downplaying food and energy prices. The two things people actually need, rather than merely want. Also wages have been falling. Net effect same as rising prices.

  46. Richard W says

    You’re right about inflation,the gov has spun how inflation is calculated ,food prices have escalated sharply especially corn products,we can all thank the gov forced ethanol program for that

  47. stephen m. says

    No inflation is a myth. Everything i have to buy and most of what i don’t have to buy has been going up for quite some time now. I wonder what that means for everyone?

  48. joe says

    Yeah Richard…I wish I would have invested in corn a few years ago.

    As someone who has worked in the electric energy field for over 25 years, only the gubberment could come up with the hair-brained ideas they come up with to foist on the common man. I’m all for environmentalism, but electric cars and Chinese-made CFLs (which last about 1 month) are two pet peeves of mine! Batteries and CFLs are the nastiest household items I can think of and now our landfills will be loaded with them. And people complain about radioactive waste. Pure genius on some bureaucrat’s part.

    The funny part about electric cars is that utilities (and academia) naively believe that owners of electric cars are going to allow the utilities to use energy from the cars at night to support the electric grid. Batteries are the most expensive part of these cars, and cycling them shortens the life of the battery. So you pay tens of thousands of dollars for your electric car (of which a large amount is for the batteries) and the utility pays you $0.10/kWh to kill off your batteries. You couldn’t make this stuff up.

    Sorry for the rant…back to coins.

  49. Don says

    Hi Ho Silver,
    It’s not only the special coin sets that come in coffin-like containers. My eye glasses do too. Yes, it is really a grave situation.

  50. Richard W says

    Joe,thank You.I’m an immigrant from Iowa ,migrated to the left coast 45 years ago,when Ca was the Golden State.We have seen this beautiful state go from riches to rags.We drive by Solyndra weekly.We are about to give birth to a eConomic and environmental traviesty.Our liberal state gov is going to be gifted what seem to Be a Hugh entitlement I’m not sure of the number but 750 billion to start construction of a bundagle that will launch Ca into economic obis.This mode will be powered by electricity nuculear no thermal no natural gas no solar no ethanol no, guess what COAL,the major soars of cheap energy being targeted by our present administration.Itwill be built mostly on prime farm land that will be eminent domained and will be tied up in the courts for decades.Go Fish

  51. Richard W says

    One mile of this thing cost more than 1000 mile of super highway,the RocketvTrain that connects to small Ca central valley communities

  52. ClevelandRocks says

    Anyone think the Mint would “sell out” the 2012 proof platinum prior to max allowed mintage if sales are slow, making it a current “sleeper”?

  53. Jack says

    anyway, since it appears this thread has steered from it’s main topic, just wondering if any of you guys/gals think that the good ol’ U.S. of A. will eventually steer away from our fiat currency system to one of something like freegold? Not as if anybody were to give away gold for free, but as in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freegold
    Also since it has appeared (at least in some estimations) that physical gold may have been leveraged to the tune of something like 100:1, as in brokers or banks selling more certificates of gold to the markets than really exist in their real physical holding(s) of such metals, whenever those holders of “paper gold” or certificates clamor for their physical gold some day in the future, won’t our little holdings of silver or gold coins be worth a hell of a lot more than they are today? (but only I guess if other commodities like wheat, corn, oil and so forth don’t significantly rise alongside with any similar rise in the values of silver or gold).

  54. Robert W says

    I returned the first set of two because of very poor quality. The replacements were also returned which were even worse. Got my money back. Where is the quality control?

  55. Uncle Leo says

    Back on topic, I received my 1st set and returned them due to scratches on the reverse proof. Just received the replacement set and will be returning them because of scratches on the reverse proof. I’ll give them one more chance. Is it possible they cannot make a reverse proof without any scratches? I bought this set only for the reverse proof. I have never held a 2006 or 2011 reverse proof that I was able to inspect. Maybe they all have some scratches, but how can the grading companies grade some 70 or 69? I guess some are made without scratches. It is so obvious. When there is a scratch on the frosted field the scratch shines so much it is easy to see. How can the mint send out coins with damage? I thought all coins were inspected. These scratches could be seen without any magnification. These coins were sent without inspection. Everybody at the mint is so nice and understanding, but what the heck is going on? Now I have to send them back yet again and wait almost another month to receive another coin with scratches? This is turning into a sick game. Ordered the 1st day and now how many months later I’m still playing this rediculous game.

  56. ClevelandRocks says

    Even more proves my point that if you own the set and are happy with them, cancel any outstanding orders since this will add value to what you already have (lowering sales #s in final audit) and you won’t be just waiting for someone else’s returns. I understand the Mint will not re-sell a product with obvious problems, but I also understand they will re-sell items that look “ok” (68-69 stuff).

  57. dan says

    Hey Cleaveland

    Maybe the guy who is evaluating the returns should be looking at them on the way out instead. For the premium the mint gets, a 68 is totally inexecusable.

  58. Jack says

    Uncle Leo & Robert W., I actually wonder whether these coins that we end up returning to the US Mint due to our observations of minor scratches, blemishes, gouges or whatever are simply given a “once-over” inspection with the naked eye by a US Mint “inspector” to look for any imperfections and if none are found, are they returned to the “Brand New Coins for Big Boy and Girl” customer fulfillment pile? (And then again, I wonder if our returns are looked at by anybody at all besides the package check-in person marking our returns and crediting our accounts and then possibly by some other kind U.S. Mint folk who actually make sure that we are returning more than the box and stuffing inside?) I’d place a small bet that the Mint places more value in making sure we are actually returning coins (and the correct number of coins) in those return boxes than the US Mint actually values in some kind of quality controlled time period where they’d be visually checking with both naked eye and with at least a 10x microscope as a double check of their own craftsmanship … after the fact at this point in time, and then making adjustments or corrections in their manufacturing processes, techniques, tools or machinery to ensure that these type errors do not occur again.

    I also question what kind of quality control the US Mint is currently running and at each stage of the minting process and if there are inconsistencies between different plants, do they acknowledge them in public? I have really not come across any truly descriptive reading material that detail how the U.S. Mint fully handles, inspects and processes all newly minted proof or uncirculated coins. Does anybody know of a website that has some kind of an official US Mint answer to these kinds of questions aside from one-off letters written to the Mint addressing specific aspects of their minting processes? I know the Mint has some fluffy piece about their circulating coins at: http://www.usmint.gov/faqs/circulating_coins/index.cfm?action=coins

    I have only kept one of my 3 sets that I originally ordered, sent 2 sets back and now await fulfillment within about two weeks for the replacement sets. Even the one set that I kept has minor scratches that anybody can see under a 10x loupe, but are quite nonexistent to the naked eye. I really hope that the other two returned sets end up in some kind of “To Be Destroyed” or “To Be Melted In Hell” pile because with all their imperfections seen with the naked eye they sure do not deserve to see the light of day again, but they sure are welcome to see the light from a 1800 degree Fahrenheit melt furnace. The worse thing that could happen to them would be reselling them back to the public.

  59. joe says

    With all the quality issues the Mint is having, it would be unconscionable for them to start charging a restocking fee.

    As much as it pains me to say, perhaps Moy wasn’t as bad as everyone thought he was back when he was the director. The new guy (Richard Peterson) is a Harvard MBA grad who spent time working at GE (imagine that). His responsibilities at GE included working in “several senior supply chain roles with responsibilities in negotiations; supplier selections; acquisition integration; supplier performance; and productivity.”

    Makes one think twice about buying anything from GE or attending Harvard’s School of Business. Both are way overrated based on the job this guy is doing!

  60. Tim says

    Remember the article that came out during the Sets production how proud the mint employees in SF were proud of their craftsmanship??????????

  61. Richard W says

    I doubt any claim by the mint of inspections out going or returned material.Those of you with scratched pieces,can you tell if the scratch is before or after being struck.I’m wondering if the planchets aren’t flawed.If this was an issue in private industry heads would roll,and sales reps would be in the field kissing a lot of you know whats.

  62. G says

    Guys- don’t look know but the 2011 Buffalo is still for sale! Okay, but seriously, the SF sets seem to be scarce in PCGS 70. For those that don’t regularly grade, the deal with PCGS costing more than NGC is because NGC typically gives 70’s to (new) coins about 50-80% of the time (mint issued), while PCGS gives it out between 5 and 50% of the time. I read somewhere that only 8% of the SF sets are getting 70’s at PCGS. Supply, meet Demand.

  63. Richard W says

    I have 2 sets ordered from the second wave i’m considering cancelling and purchasing a PCGS 70 set,From what i’m hearing sounds like the odds of getting a clean set from the mint are slim.

  64. gumbyen says

    From now on I will be looking at the coins closer prior to sending them in. 12 coins sent in …………1 68, 8 69’s and 3 70’s (and none of them a reverse proof). Worst luck I have ever had sending coins off the graders

  65. Don says

    ClevelandRocks:
    You have, on more than one occasion, given the advise to other posters to cancel their remaining orders of the SF set to increase the value of the ones they already have. Are you really thinking of other collectors, or are you more concerned about the value of the sets that you have? I’m sure that the posters are intelligent enough to make their own decisions.

  66. deacon says

    Ordered my 2 sets early on the first day. They were in excellent shape when i got them on August first. Can’t really complain about mine.

  67. ClevelandRocks says

    @ Don, if you follow my posts you will know:
    1- I’m super pissed at the Mint for misleading us about the 2012 S “limited window” of availability.
    2- I disclosed my sets actually look nice (will keep in OGP) and want to selfishly maximize their value.
    3-I only have 2 sets, so it’s more a matter of principle
    4-I keep my coins. I am not a flipper. I’ve only flipped one coin in 30 years (2011 w AGE).
    I’ve posted recently posted a tip on buying a sold out FS from a dealer at a good price a few hours before they sold out of them.
    So what’s your point Don, and what good advice do you have for your fellow numismatists?
    I stand by my solid advice.

  68. Shutter says

    I read somewhere that only 8% of the SF sets are getting 70′s at PCGS.
    Don’t know where you read that, but according to PCGS they graded about 3,200 of each coin as PR70 and about 6,100 as PR69. I’m guessing that works out to a tad more than 8%. YMMV.

  69. Wes says

    Have noticed that the number 25th Anniversary Eagle sets in unopened boxes for sale on Ebay has finally dwindled down to a few. Also fewer whole sets in OGP seem to be available lately. Even if these Reverse proofs are grading at 35 percent grade 70 there still will be fewer grade 70 2011 reverse proof eagles.

  70. VA Bob says

    MY two SF sets looked great even under magnification. I’m quite happy with them. No second order pending.

    I also ordered the available 2012 ATB pucks, due to the rising silver prices. I was hoping it would have gone low enough for a price decrease, but it has seemed to turn the opposite way.

    On Tuesday the National Debit will pass $16T with no end in sight… so get em while their hot boy and girls. Somethings gotta give, and I have no faith in govt. solving it anytime soon.

  71. Wes says

    Okay so a little more than a few but still becoming rarer to find sealed box from mint of the 25th anniversary set.

  72. ClevelandRocks says

    Good tip about hockey pucks. Sort of think (wrongly) they will stay at current pricing until the Tricentennial. They may catch on one day (unlike the FS).

  73. Don says

    ClevelandRocks:
    I appreciate you disclosing that you are a collector and not a flipper. Of course everyone wants to see some gain in value in coins they have purchased from the Mint–but there never has been a guarantee this will happen. Also, coin values fluctuate a great deal. Look how silver eagle proofs have come down to the same flatline price for most issues. I have, in fact, offered advice to other posters, and that is to stay away from grading companies and keep modern issue coins in the original government packaging. Once I get a coin or a set from the Mint, and it is in acceptatble condition, it stays home with me- not shipped out to get graded and possibly damaged in the encapsulation process.
    So, we do have the same belief that modern issues should be kept in OGP. I am also a collector and have never sold a coin.

  74. hi ho silver says

    ClevelandRocks. I went to a local market place this Sat. To have a couple dealers look over my set (appraise) Two I have delt with over the years confirmed with me that the set was excellent quality . A third I never delt with offered me $50 for each coin. You really have to watch whom you are talking to .I f you really want to get mad at The Mint buy some US Mint sets they will go down in value before you even get them.

  75. joe says

    Michael –

    Do you know if there’s a link out there somewhere that has the original price for products offered by the US Mint? I was trying to lookup a 6-coin 1989 Bicentennial of Congress set (among others) and can’t find any pricing information on the set (other than what they are going for today).

    Thanks in advance…

  76. Shutter says

    Even if these Reverse proofs are grading at 35 percent grade 70 there still will be fewer grade 70 2011 reverse proof eagles.

    No doubt. I think PCGS graded a bit more than 50% the 2011 coin at 70. However, it is becoming apparent that this year much higher percentage of RP will be graded 70 than in 2006.

  77. alva says

    The mint is not into perfect 70 slab coins. To them is just a coin. the mint dont care about little scratches. As long as it doesnt have big damagr then its fine to them. A scratch is not a problem coin thats why they re sell it to another customer thinking this buyer wont be as picki as the other.

  78. alva says

    So when you guys return a coin for scratches the mint is Like what is this guy talking about theres no damage and think of us as weirdos wanting a perfect scrath free coin. Thats why youre replacement coin is the same with scratches to the mint its fine. Its just a coin to them. They dont get that customers want the coin perfect, to them thas just weird.

  79. natatack says

    returned two of my sets recently and got my replacements, not quite as bad as the first but still not to my liking. The replacement coins had more wrinkles in the clear outer wrap and the hard blur sleeve had creases on two areas. I think the are recirculating the returns in hope of finding a home. I returned them for a refund. I also cancelled my other two sets scheduled for shipping in Oct.31st. Getting tired of repacking and shipping them off, hoping for better quality coins.

  80. joe says

    Alva –

    If “it’s just a coin to them (the Mint),” then why does the Mint charge a huge premium for their coins? The coins they sell are by definition numismatic issues (for collectors), so why would a collector want a scratched coin? If you’re correct and the Mint doesn’t care about the quality of their product, then that’s basically the end of their revenue stream through their numismatic channel and they might as well go ahead and close their website down now. Very few (if any) collectors are knowingly going to pay good money for scratched coins.

  81. Samuel says

    i returned 2 sets for refund, but it seems the mint will send me 2 sets for replacement. the shipping date was changed from 8/31 to 9/18. the replacement are new coins or other people’s returns?

    i checked “return for refund” on the return slip, why they processed it as “return for replacement”?

  82. Mercury says

    I was under the impression that Mint Officials were touting that one of the advantages to having this set being produced at the San Francisco Mint as oppose to any of the other Mint facilities, was that the San Francisco Mint will be retrofitted in order to insure that each of the 2012 Sets that it produces, are given the needed time and attention of the Mint Staff, in order to insure and maintain the production of a higher then normal quality Proof Set. That the methods in which the 2012 Proof Set’s are being produced at the San Francisco Mint will allow for it’s staff to spend the extra time needed to allow for a higher than usual end product. At least that’s what I read, if I’m not mistaking, in a coin newsletter article, written sometime before the Sets was released. Yes… I would have to say that the Mint does have some explaining to do.

  83. Louis says

    By the way, and I know this is off topic, the 2012 platinum proof coins look much nicer in person than in the web site images. I saw one over the weekend, and I was pretty impressed.

  84. Shutter says

    Looking at NGC population report, bullion ASE marked as minted at WP received MS70 46%. Minted at SF 33%. Those had to be submitted in sealed monster boxes, so they have not been searched. So I don’t see why anyone would expect SF employees to be more careful than WP employees.

  85. Mercury says

    On that same note, I would also like to make a comment on what is apparently now the sure bet to ones getting a scratch free 2012 Proof Set. Here’s my take on the TGS’ from my own personal dealings with both NGC and PCGS. As I see it, the reason why NGC consistently sends back a higher percent of 70’s in their graded coins, is because of the fact that the coins that are being sent to NGC to be graded are (initially) of a higher quality then those being sent to PCGS. The reason being is that collectors with visibly higher quality coins tend to prefer sending them to NCG to be graded, there’s a little less fooling around going on there. So even though PCGS generally commands a higher premium on its graded coins then those graded by NCG, I personally feel that overall NCG quality of it’s graded coins, especially those graded a perfect 70, seem to be more consistent, then those same coins given a 70 grade from PCGS. The reason I say this, is because whether you are pro or con regarding graded coins, if you purchase coins as an investment, then a PR70 2012 2 Coin Proof Set is the way to go in this case. I have a PR70 graded set from both NGC and PCGS, and have noticed that PCGS is allowing a little more than what I would consider tolerable within their 70 grades, where as NGC PR70 grades appear shaper and crisper, and consistently higher in quality and appearance. Take it or leave it, owning a 70 graded 2012 Set in this case, is a must if your purpose in collecting coins is for investment purposes, especially in considering all the quality condition issues that has surfaced related to the 2012 Sets. Unfortunately without this graded guarantee you’ll simply end up with just owning a nice 2012 2 Coin Proof Set, which in itself isn’t bad either, if that’s all you want to get out of coin collecting. Just thought you might like to know.

  86. CE says

    Glad to see the discussion about the relative pluses and minuses of NGC/PCGS grading. I submitted a spotless UHR to PCGS and it came back with a spot in the OBV field. I contacted them and they basically told me to prove it wasn’t in the field before submission. I told them I had a pre submission photo of the OBV without a spot and, again, was told there was nothing to do at that point.
    Needless to say, not more submissions to PCGS. Nice to know I’m not the only one having problems with them.

  87. Don says

    Could there be the possibility that the later ordered SF proof sets might actually have less problems than earlier orders, quality wise? I would think that the SF Mint facility, and its quality control people, has gotten drift of the many returns and customer complaints from earlier shipments. Whoever manages this SF Mint has probably, by now, gotten a directive to pay some additional attention to the quality of the proof coins leaving the facility. They are supposed to be premium, collector quality issues.

  88. hi ho silver says

    If what you say is true why would you send them to ANY TGS ? I got a Vicksburg silver quarter with a razor gash on the Obv. Graded Ultra Proof 70 by NGC.

  89. Shutter says

    As I see it, the reason why NGC consistently sends back a higher percent of 70′s in their graded coins, is because of the fact that the coins that are being sent to NGC to be graded are (initially) of a higher quality then those being sent to PCGS.

    I’d love to agree with you, since most of my graded coins are NGC and PCGS slabs are pretty ugly. However, your reasoning does not explain those instances were coins were sent in sight unseen (e.g. 2011 set). Or the apparent fact that 2012 bullion ASE are getting higher proportion of 70 from PCGS than NGC.

    I also think that NGC does a whole lot more bulk business than PCGS. I seriously doubt that bulk submitters do a lot of examining prior to submitting hundreds or thousands of coins.

  90. Louis says

    Mercury, You are probably right, but then why do PCGS 70 modern coins almost always sell for more (a lot more in some cases) than NGC 70 coins?
    Take the Lucy Hayes. NGC 70 ER’s on e-Bay when I checked over the weekend sold for $2300, but a few days before someone paid $4,000 ! for the same coin in PCGS 70 FS.
    Or the SF sets ($300 vs. $450 or more). That is a 50% difference. Probably not justified, but that is how the market works. I got a PCGS 70 FS set for $250 and then it doubled a few days later.
    Sometimes they are the same, but I don’t remember an NGC 70 of anything ever selling for more than a PCGS 70. Has anyone else ever seen an NGC 70 sell for substantially more than a PCGS 70?

  91. Mercury says

    The situation is like this: A person may now be paying more for PCGS 70 graded coins. But just as it is with the school system, if a prominent school, starts producing students that are not doing as well academically, then the word soon gets out, and parents and students tend to look elsewhere. So too is the case with grading services, like home appraisers, TGS are necessary in order to establish a basis for making investments. But like a school, if the TGS appraisers begin consistently failing to produce the desirable physical result, we look elsewhere in order to get the best investment for our money. So the point I’m getting at is this. I’m beginning to have suspicion that when PCGS feels it is too their advantage to send out a higher number of 70 graded coins, it seems to find a way to do so. The problem being is that the pressure to perform may be at the risk of compromising their integrity. Now in the past that may have not been the case, but like any school, it’s only as good as the teachers and the services they provide. PCGS is still a great grading service, but I feel that the pressure that has resulted from this new “mint to demand method”, has not only effected coin collectors attitudes, but it has also increased the of pressure on TPGS to send larger qualities of higher graded coins, and now it is especially the case since collectors are now coveting these higher grades. It’s situation like this that can really test ones will to resist compromise. Here is where PCGS may be losing their edge and NGC may be gaining some ground. As I see it, this new mint to demand policy and everything that goes with it has created utter madness in the coin collecting industry. Hopefully what is happening within the TPGS will all fix itself once all this craziness’ is over… but for now, it is what it is.

  92. Mercury says

    hi ho silver says:
    September 3, 2012 at 3:10 pm
    If what you say is true why would you send them to ANY TGS ?
    To error is human, so yes by all means getting your coin graded buy a TGS is good, they make a valuable contribution to the hobby of coin collecting. There are in fact many dentists out there that may be able to do a better job at cleaning your teeth then the one your now seeing, but at least your going to see a dentist. But if you were aware of someone who could do better and can afford it, wouldn’t you be inclined see the best dentist money could buy. So too with TGS.

  93. dan says

    I would still like to see a statistical breakdown of the percentages of graded coins in relation as to when they were recieved by the tpg’s. Would the percentage of 70’s be higher in the begining when, shall we say, large houses submit large quantities of coins to get that coveted ( not ) early/first strike designation? Would the percentage drop off after the initial wave of their bread and butter clients? I hate to sound cynical but sometimes I just have to wonder. I will admit that this time it sounds like the overall quality of the SF set might be lousy enough to where they cant fudge the numbers that much. Now with CAC checking pcgs and ngc and the like, does that make them a 4th party grading service???? When will someone start a 5th party grading service to check everyone else? Where and when will it end, thats why anything new from the mint I stay ogp with all the original documentation to prove authenticity. Old investment grade coins that I purchase are slabbed only to hopefully prevent a counterfeit I hope.

  94. hi ho silver says

    Mercury: I only buy raw,PCGS and NGC graded coins (for most part) Is there a guarantee NGC will reimburse me for a razor nick on a PR 70 quarter in an NGC holder?

  95. Don says

    Mercury,

    You make some good points on the “pressure to perform” that the grading companies experience, likely resulting in many more borderline “70” grades.

    This pressure to perform is even greater on grading companies such as ANACs, who a well-known TV coin personality utilized for the 2012 SF proof sets. The host boasted that he bought about 10% of all these sets. Imagine the enormous pressure these grading companies are under to keep the big customers happy.

  96. Mercury says

    hi ho silver says:
    September 3, 2012 at 6:47 pm
    Is there a guarantee NGC will reimburse me for a razor nick on a PR 70 quarter in an NGC holder?
    Now here is where grading really gets tricky. I was informed that in certain instances a coin could have a nick or scratch and still receive a perfect 70 grade. Now in that case it up to the individual coin collector to decide whether to buy the coin or the slab. Though that scratch may bother you, for another collector, they may feel it gives the coin character. As for me I would pass on purchasing the slab, to me the idea of perfect means a coin is flawless. But 30 year from now that same coin with the scratch and a PR70 grade could be worth $200,000.00

  97. Mercury says

    Let me also add that in considering your case, it would also depend on how rare the coin is before I would accept a scratch on a PR70 coin. The problem I would have is when a TPGS grades a “mint to order coin” Such as the 2012 2 Coins Sets a PR70 with a scratch on it. Sure in that case I would expect NGC to refund my money.

  98. Wes says

    Grading tome is just another scam to make money. The coin is the same coin whether it’s in a slab that somebody has graded for you or it’s in OGP but then again I am not a flipper.

  99. VA Bob says

    I’m with you Wes. I have some slabbed coins, but those I have I’ve never paid a penny more than a comparable raw coin. If I were a flipper, perhaps I’d want to maximize the money I could get from folks that put a value on that service. I believe it has some value with old coins, but for moderns that never circulated well that’s entirely different. The plastic capsule they came in is the best option in my opinion. Besides with the thousands of submissions, can you really ever be sure you get the same coin back that you sent them, especially when you give them a sealed box or bulk submission? Guess it all boils down to the trust you give the TPG.

  100. Jack says

    Here’s an idea. Maybe the gubberment ought to conduct a unique test by sending 50 % of their minted stocks of proof & uncirculated coins to outside government contractor bidders (private companies) who would grade em (all done within the same US Mint premises where they were coined), then sending these “freshly-graded” coins (the 50% of total product being graded) directly to market (via direct mailing to customer) along with any of the other 50% non-graded (or raw) product that the customer might have ordered, all at the same time and see how the market reacts to buying products this way.

    Then, at least the coins would have an opportunity to somewhat be graded inside the walls of the U.S. Mint instead of having ordered coins sent traveling to your home or business, then you having to forward this little expedition in order to have them arrive at your selected grading co. The grading co. of course must returning them all safely back to you on another costly journey. ( Perhaps all that extra mailing and packaging misery could be eliminated).

    Any thoughts?

  101. hi ho silver says

    Jack: Your idea sounds too good to come true !! Remember the Fed also makes $$ from the USPS.

  102. hi ho silver says

    Mercury: I just question the methods these TPG use. I looked up an NGC graded two cent piece and the date on the coin is 1863!?! Check it out on the site. 2563757-013 lol

  103. NaplesMike says

    Hi Ho Silver…At first glance the coin appears to be dated 1863, however, after looking more closely it appears to be dated 1864. Also, from what I can tell, they didn’t begin minting this coin until 1864.

  104. hi ho silver says

    Lol Sorry DCDave. I just like the fact I got a poor SF set and was able to return it to the Mint for a better set and thought I would bash someone else. Maybe a story about check and balance of the handeling of coins and quality control.

  105. simon says

    CE : No more submissions to PCGS

    CE you have my sympathies specifically about a coin as valuable as an UHR.

    PCGS has a long history of pulling these stunts, which thyey know they can get away with for small customers. I would recommend not sending the coin back to them because they will simply etch the spot and very likely make the coin worse. Their staff seem to excel in incompetence.

    As far as the “higher” sale value for PCGS vs NGC : I do not patronize TPGs preferring Mint issued OGP in my collection. I suspect well varnished HYPE is the major cause. I do however own coins purchased in the past from several TPGs and they are mostly on spot for grade – even for the lesser known ICG and ANACS. I actually prefer the “old slab” ANACS to any other slabbed coins.

  106. TheAsianGuy says

    I had submitted coins to PCGS (the first and the last) couple of years go. Five commemorative coins which included 2 x 2001 Silver Buffalo, 2 x 2009 Lincoln Proof Dollar, 1993 James Medison (five free submissions) , they were in pristine condition. At that time, I had own the above listing coins with grade 70s from both PCGS and NGC as well. They came back with 68 and 69. The five coins developed spots and some toning few months later. I think they just try to control their populations and give the big dealers the advantages. I almost completed my dollar commemorative coin collections with PCGS PR70 and MS70. I sold them all last year and I was glad I did. I paid big premium for PCGS coins, but they get spots and get tonning easily, no matter how hard I try to avoid it from happening. Oh yeah, and all my PCGS ASE as well.

    Now, I only collect NGC 70s for my long term investment and own collections.

  107. Michael in Bama says

    DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
    United States Mint
    Price for the 2012 Annual Uncirculated Dollar Coin Set
    Agency: United States Mint, Department of the Treasury
    ACTION: Notice.
    SUMMARY: The United States Mint is announcing a price of $54.95 for the 2012 Annual Uncirculated
    Dollar Coin Set. This set contains the following uncirculated coins: four Presidential $1 Coins, one
    Native American $1 Coin, and one American Eagle Silver Coin.
    FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: B. B. Craig, Associate Director for Sales and Marketing;
    United States Mint; 801 9th Street, NW; Washington, DC 20220; or call 202-354-7500.

  108. VA Bob says

    Wes – The only question I have, should the Mint start to sell graded coins, is exactly what am I paying a substantial premium for now?

  109. rpw says

    Just thought I’d throw this out there….

    I purchased 2 sets about 5 days after they went on sale.
    I received both sets shortly after they started shipping. One of the coins had a “burn” mark under the “N” on the reverse so I sent it back. I was suppose to get a replacement but when the replacement ship date was changed by the mint – I cancelled the order and settled for the one set that I kept.

    I noticed some “strange, smooth spots” on the reverse proof so I was a little upset because I thought that it would grade a 69 at best.

    To my surprise — NGC graded both coins as 70.
    Still waiting to get them back (hopefully in the next day or so).
    Thought it was really strange because I just sent in my 2009 UHR Gold coin a couple weeks earlier and it sadly graded at 69 which I thought should have been a 70.

    I’m just not getting the whole grading thing. I really think it’s a numbers game.
    Also – I think if I would have sent in my UHR and had it graded as an early release — it would have gotten a 70 ER label but since I waited so long to send it in – and the secondary market prices for 70 URH coin is so high – it put’s more pressure on the dealers coins if NGC were to grade my coin as a 70 now.
    They figure I would think – “heck – a 69 is pretty good”!
    WRONG! It should be a PERFECT PROOF COIN. Isn’t that what we all expect????

    We want either a PERFECT COIN or an ERROR COIN. Nothing in between!!!

    Point is – if you want to get a coin graded – do it right away and hope or the best. If you wait – you could get a lower grade — for no reason except that you waited!

    I HATE TPG’s but the fact of the matter is — TPG graded coins have a higher secondary market resale so I will RELUCTANTLY have my “special coins” graded.

    I now have a full set of 25th Anniversary and SF 75th Anniversary coins graded as 70’s which means – I was thrown a bone – and I’ll now have more coins graded. Point is … I think TPG grading is a scam and I would rather NOT pay extra to have coins graded but — until EVERYONE ELSE STOPS getting them graded – I have no choice. Regardless of what people say — I think it’s better to get the coins graded rather then not for this simple reason….

    You can ALWAYS take a coin out of a slab and put it back in the OGP but you cannot go back and have a coin graded (especially as Early Release) once the time to do so has expired. Better to err on the side of caution!

  110. Mercury says

    rpw says: I’m just not getting the whole grading thing. I really think it’s a numbers game.

    Go figure. Doesn’t it make you wonder that why out of all the tens of thousands of 5oz ATB bullion hokey pucks out there, that the best grade so far coming from the TPGs is MS69? It a little suspicious that neither PCGS nor NGC can muster up the nerve to grade even one a 70 grade. Unlike all the other coin out there, good or bad, big or small, that have been graded MS70. Why are they so committed to hanging on to a MS69 grade on these coins? Things that make you go Hmmmm….

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