Rosebud Sioux Code Talkers Medal

The Rosebud Sioux Tribe Code Talkers Bronze Medal can now be purchased from the U.S. Mint. The design is available on 1.5– and 3-inch medals minted in Philadelphia and priced $6.95 and $39.95, respectively. There are no stated mintage limits or household order restrictions at this time.

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The medal is fashioned after the Congressional Gold Medal awarded the Rosebud Sioux Tribe (also known as Sicangu Lakota) on August 28, 2015, in acknowledgement of their service during World War II.

The obverse of the medal shows two Sicangu Lakota warriors in profile, one in traditional dress and the other in the uniform of a U.S. soldier. SICANGU LAKOTA curves along the top of the design, while CODE TALKERS is placed over eagle feathers at the bottom.

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The reverse bears an image of the Rosebud Sioux Tribe Seal with the inscriptions ROSEBUD SIOUX TRIBE, WWII, and 2008 ACT OF CONGRESS surrounding the center design.

“Code Talkers” were Native Americans who used tribal languages to transmit secret communications for the U.S. military during World War I and World War II. After Navajo Code Talkers received a Congressional Gold Medal in 2001, the Code Talkers Recognition Act of 2008 established a plan to recognize other tribes who served in this capacity. In addition to the Navajo, 33 tribes were selected to be honored with Congressional Gold medals; of those, 29 have received their medals, with 4 scheduled to be awarded theirs in the future.

For more information on the Code Talkers Recognition Congressional Medals Program, visit the U.S. Mint’s Web site.


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Comments

  1. jeff says

    Was this ethnic class of veterans worthy of recognition on a coin. What about the 10’s of thousand of Caucasian class that do not have a coin after their heroic accomplishments. We have Presidents, Generals, Statesman, Events but not for the lonely individual that sacrificed his/her live no commemorative coins. Are we really recognizing each individual tribe this is a bit much imho. I take nothing away for their service but all need to be recognized and not by tribes.

  2. gary says

    Just 18 left of the 2014 Great Sand Dunes “P” mint 5 oz. silver left on Mint website.
    Maybe about to really sell out this time around?

  3. CaliSkier says

    @Jeff: This medal isn’t about race! These men which so happened to be Native Americans, were Code Talkers….perhaps you should read a little about history or why they are being recognized. The enemies of our great USA were unable to decipher the coded messages sent by these code talking patriots which kept, as you’ve mentioned many untold nationalities/races out of harms way or from being killed! Are you a veteran? I didn’t think so….

    Since primarily caucaians stole, lied, cheated, killed, etc the Native Americans in order to secure pretty much all land of any value on this continent, the least we can do is recognize the Very important role, contributions and sacrifice made to help keep all our troops safe, regardless of their race or nationality, considering what was done to their tribes.

    Lastly…. No one is born a racist…it’s a learned behavior! Just a statement, not saying you are one…

    PS I’m in agreement that the Code Talkers series would garner more attention if issued in silver.

  4. Larry says

    @ Caliskier – I wanted to say something also to Jeff, but I couldn’t have said it better than you.

  5. Olde Sailor Bill says

    Jeff
    Indian code talkers are honored with the Bronze Medals.

    Vets have been honored with Silver Commem’s ie: ’91 Korean Men,’94 3-coin US Vets set, ’05 USMC, ’10 Disabled Vets, ’11 US Army, ’11 Medal of Honor & ’12 Infantry.

    It’s time to recognize the Navy. No ! (Doolittle Raiders Medal isn’t navy it’s Army Air Corps)

  6. jeff says

    CaliSkier says

    I appreciate the history lesson however I could care less about code talkers, the real heroes where predominantly Caucasian, so spin my words the way you want. The code talkers were not on the front lines risking life and liberty. You must be a native. Your assumption is right I have never served however for what it’s worth my oldest son is enlisted you don’t have to thank him though because I’m sure you have little worthiness anyways.

  7. Hidalgo says

    Although I have yet to purchase one, I believe the Code Talker medal series is a brilliant way to recognize the diversity of our country and pay tribute to the contributions that Native Americans played during World War II.

    If it weren’t for these medals, I seriously doubt most Americans would have been aware about the roles the different tribes had played.

  8. jeff says

    Hidalgo says: “If it weren’t for these medals, I seriously doubt most Americans would have been aware about the roles the different tribes had played.”

    So let me get this right, since the U.S. Mint has offered these metals millions of Americans now know about code talkers. Really! Is that why they sell out so fast?

  9. Xena says

    Bill777 – I have an Ike C&C to trade. I have your email from a previous thread, will send you an email.

    Sherril/Doug – how did your trade go?

  10. Wow says

    @jeff – You may not think so, but the impartial folks of the world see you as a racist because you at least speak like one. Just FYI.

  11. Hidalgo says

    @Wow – I would ignore future posts from narrow minded bloggers. Typically, all they want is attention – because they don’t receive enough from their families, friends, and neighbors.

  12. KCSO says

    CaliSkier – have you been to Iwo?

    Have you flown carrier qual flights from Iwo or any Pacific air field, or toured there?

    Been on numerous combat missions in more than one theater?

    Caliskier, Larry, wow – shut the F up!

    The Impartial folks of the world are those that couldn’t find there way out of a McDonalds play ground or their culture is so insignificant that they have no appreciation nor recollection as to how they “got” their Freedom and are not currently enslaved as they were 200 years ago.., pick up a history book.

    I have the utmost appreciation and respect for the code talkers, though the series is way too late in coming and a bit over kill.

    If there is ANY THING that should encite you with rage – IT IS THIS.

    That thousands of great Americans have sacrificed and died to bring stability to the Middle East and this Administration is turning over the keys to a nukier Iran, for short term image and political gain. It is 1937 all over again due to incompetence and appeasement.

    Don’t agree.., fine, it’s your grandchildren that get to clean up the mess. Wake up…, & ask yourself why are we even entertaining this.

    Now, how about back to coins?

    Oh, and Wow – impartial folks, ask yourself, how did they become impartial?
    UnF’nbelievable!

  13. KCSO says

    Hildago – disregard my post, you’re so left wing polar that I suspect you felt good about lifting North Korean sanctions while they acquired enough fusion material to assemble their nuke arsenal which we found out, what a year ago, could hit mainland US?

    Hildago, it has amazed me over the past 5 years that you are so quick to jump on any liberal rights issue, though you reside in Alexandria (Old Town I believe), where it’s 95% Caucasian and the average property value is $750,000. How fortunate 😃

  14. Jeff says

    What makes me racist saying Caucasians, Native, ethnic class your minds are telling you racism you got it wrong dudes. My inference to this issue is not every tribe needs to be recognized . Acknowledge the Native American but over kill trying to recognize every tribe . How bout we recognize every troop, division, battalion, every war ship, Caucasians are one ethnic class not broken into what state your from what year you served. But trying to identify each and every tribe is way over the top imho. This is not to take away from their service.

  15. Jerry Diekmann says

    I would just like to offer that this blog is supposed to be about discussing coins, with the primary focus being on newer coins and medals as they are issued by the USM. It is not supposed to be about cursing one another over one’s political beliefs or bigotry. All Americans who served in any of our wars deserve to be honored for their commitment and sacrifice. Some of them never came back, many were wounded phsically and mentally, and some were disabled for life. it doesn’t matter to me if they are white, black, brown, red, or yellow, and it also doesn’t matter who their God or gods are that they prayed to. This world would be a better and more peaceful place if we all remembered that we’re all on this planet together and we might as well make the best of it, our differences notwithstanding. Dan, I think you should not allow this vitriol to continue on this website. This is supposed to be a fun hobby, after all. .

  16. Erik H says

    I had never heard of the Code Talkers until the first set of medals were posted on this blog (what a wonderful public education I received in school LOL). So yes, history is still taught / learned through numismatics. If the medals were silver, I’m sure I would have bought some by now.

  17. a Bob says

    I may start this collection. Interesting subject with great designs. This is one congress got right.
    Jeff- they are not recognizing every tribe. Just the tribes with members that participated in code talking.

  18. CaliSkier says

    @Clark: Did you pick up 1.5″, 3″ or combination of these? How’s the quality? I realize these aren’t coins, however I ordered a few medals(Lincoln, Dali Lama, Yosemite) in 2010 and sent all but the Lincoln medals back for poor quality. I’m not too familiar with these bronze medals and noticed or perceived a big difference in quality as compared to coins the mint puts out.

  19. CurtO says

    To address the complaints that the white caucasion soldiers have been snubbed…2011 had both Medal of Honor Commemorative Coin Program and United States Army Commemorative Coin Program.

    2012 had the Infantry Soldier Silver Dollar.

    2013 had the 5-Star Generals Commemorative Coin Program.
    How many coins commemorating white soldiers does it take to soften the sting of memorializing the code talkers?

  20. fmtransmitter says

    @gary: I aint no boy and face to face haven’t been called one decades. All I see from you on here in boring azz posts and ignorance amd disrespect. Why not chill and play nice boy…???

  21. Hidalgo says

    The artwork on the U.S. Mint medals is superb. The artwork surpasses those found on some of our coins.

    I have a complete set of Presidential and First Spouse bronze medals to date. I hope one day, the U.S. Mint will sell the complete collection of Code Talker medals so that I can add this beautiful set to my collection.

  22. Hidalgo says

    If we ignore remarks that add little value to this blog, the bloggers will find others who will listen to them. Sadly, some folks want attention because they can’t get enough from their spouses, families, or friends.

  23. KCSO says

    Apologies for that little out burst, “too much fun” in the sun usually ends poorly, which I’m feeling now! My bad
    😃

  24. says

    CaliSkier–I collect both. Like most smaller US Mint medals, the quality of my 1.5″ Code Talkers ranges from very poor to good. However, the 3.0″ versions are almost flawless with a super high relief quality I wish my 5oz National Parks quarters had.

    Many folks don’t realize (I didn’t) the stark differences between 1.5 and 3.0″ varieties: 1.5″ medals are minted with a bright bronze luster which easily scuffs inside cheap plastic sleeves, whereas the 3.0″ medals are minted with a matte gold colored, scratch resistant finish.

    The hefty 3.0″ medals are carefully packaged in sturdy boxes with metal clasps to prevent opening during transit and come with a clear plastic display tripod stand I also wish the 5oz silver coins came with.

    The 3.0″ versions were produced in solid gold for the tribes and the Smithsonian, in silver for the actual Code Talker vets or their survivors and in bronze for the public. I’d love to get my hands on a silver some day and may get to handle one because so many tribes are located here in New Mexico.

  25. cagcrisp says

    Concerning the Kennedy coin and chronicle. At this Point for Those that want this series to thrive, I Truly believe that you are better off Without a Sellout At This Point. Lower mintage with a Lot of cancellation and returns can POSSIBLY get this back in the hand of those that actually want this series. Way Way to many flippers. If you Truly wanted this set you have had ample opportunity to purchase.
    Those that have Posted that you need a Sellout, it’s too late for that now. An early Sellout could have helped but not At This Point.
    Get the flippers out and prices will rise. Prices rise without a Sellout and you get more flippers. A catch 22…

  26. David says

    I don’t think the mint should waste their time with medals. They should just focus on coins. And I never understood putting a denomination on bullion coins. People don’t actually spend them anyways so really what is the point of that?

  27. gary says

    Just 15 left of the 2014 Great Sand Dunes “P” mint 5 oz. silver left on Mint website.

    @Jerry… Yes Jerry this IS supposed to be a blog about modern U.S. Mint coins. I do find blogger comments mostly interesting when they are on topic or at least relevant to recent issues when off topic. The problem with this blog is not unique to blogs in general. Because it is a free internet there are always those who feel the need to stretch their egos or blow off their personal discomforts of whatever kind to create an atmosphere of tension and animus whenever it suits them. I try to ignore them & if I feel that difficult I just stay away from the blog for a while.

  28. Ryan says

    Well I did something I’ve never done before and sent in 5 2015 enhanced sacagawea coins for grading at NGC. I recieved them back yesterday and it was like Christmas morning when 4 out of 5 came back SP 70!!! One came back SP 69. I looked on the NGC site but I can’t find how many have been graded 70, you guys have any idea?

  29. jeff says

    Have no idea Ryan but it’s clear the West Point Mint have superior presses and quality control as opposed to Denver or Phil. Congrats

  30. says

    David–The point of putting a $ denomination on coins is to deter counterfeits. Counterfeiting is a federal crime which carries a fine of up to $250,000 and a prison sentence of up to twenty years.

    Because they do not have $ denominations, it isn’t a crime to counterfeit US Mint medals, most of which– ironically–do not come with Certificates of Authenticity with corresponding engraved serial numbers.

  31. Sith says

    @jeff – Just maybe if we as a nation recognized their heroic actions back in the day, you know like treating them as equal members of the US military worth of respect equivalent to those Caucasian GIs you mention…the least we can do is give each tribe a gold medal after 70+ years of marginalizing their war contributions. Just IMHO…oh by the way if you don’t want to be called a duck, don’t quack like one.

    @David – They correspond with Congressional gold medals

  32. CaliSkier says

    @Clark: Thanks for the explanation on your experience with the quality of the bronze medals! Also, how the 2 sizes differ in finish/appearance and packaging.

    Since I haven’t followed the medal program, that’s also an eye opener, that more than likely we’ll never see these medals minted in silver. Due to how these medals are awarded/distributed….. Gold to Smithsonian, Silver to survivors or family members and Bronze replicas offered for sale to the public. Again, thanks!

  33. Sith says

    As far as this blog being about coins, its called Mint News Blog not Mint Coins News blogs, and yes the US Mint makes medals. I occasionally buy medals and these articles keep me informed. However if you don’t care about medals then simply skip the article. The word medal is in the title of the article.

  34. Sith says

    Sorry blog I should have seen that the post about coins was to stop the flame war not about the article. And of course I should have simply ignored Jeff’s ignorant comment especially as it was already addressed in the above mentioned flame war.

  35. CaliSkier says

    @Hidalgo, Clark, re: The artwork…. IMO in many ways the designs are much better than many of the designs the mint has offered through other series or products. Maybe, due to additional effort put in because of the significance and a gold example being displayed in the Smithsonian? Maybe, since they’re high relief and intended for a 3″ format, this allows for more freedom of expression or creativity?

  36. jeff says

    DNFTT

    Sith says

    September 20, 2015 at 12:16 pm

    Sorry blog I should have seen that the post about coins was to stop the flame war not about the article. And of course I should have simply ignored Jeff’s ignorant comment especially as it was already addressed in the above mentioned flame war.

  37. GoldFishin says

    @Ryan- type in one of your certification numbers at NGC……on that page it will tell how many are graded at that level. You can click on coin details for the specifics. Normally, NGC does not release population data until a week or two after the Early Release period has ended, which ends on the 23rd.

    Here is the population data for PCGS, for you to compare while you are waiting on the NGC data. Looks like about 34% are grading SP70 over there. Either way, you did really well, nice going!

    http://www.pcgs.com/pop/pcgsnolookup.aspx?s=546369&bc=546368

  38. CaliSkier says

    @Clark: Perhaps, had I followed MNB’s/Dan’s mint website link at the end of this article I’d have increased my awareness/knowledge of the Medals program? Live and learn….I do appreciate your explanation though!

  39. Bob Old Big Bird says

    Does anyone know where one could get the REAL production number for the US Mint for 2014.
    I just got in the 2016 Blue Book R.S Yeoman. They show 2014-S Clad Proof sets at 680,977 and
    2014-S Silver proof sets at 404,685 mintage. Yet I know that the US Mint already show SALES
    of 2014-S Clad Proofs sets of 705,455 and 2014-S silver proof sets of 425,458.

    Therefore what the heck good is the 2016 blue book and what was the real PRODUCTION (mintage) number
    and not the sales number since the mint is still selling them. Are they still minting them LOL.

  40. Dustyroads says

    We shall see what the Mint does with the `15 SW2 (Silver Proof Set). So far they’re trending behind the all time low `12 Silver Proof Sets, but those sets sold out in the first week of 2013.

  41. fmtransmitter says

    KCSO says
    SEPTEMBER 20, 2015 AT 5:36 AM

    Apologies for that little out burst, “too much fun” in the sun usually ends poorly, which I’m feeling now! My bad
    😃

    Dude, goto bed after the fun in the sun, what are u doing in here? Still got yur back tho..

  42. Bob Old Big Bird says

    Gentlemen,

    That site on the US Mint is there SALES numbers not what they produced for 2014. 425,458 is what they SOLD
    so what is the amount the made and thus what are they sitting on????

    Point two is what good is the numbers in the 2016 Blue Book by Y.s. Yeoman who shows only MINTAGE of 404,685 which is 20,773 lower then what the US Mint states it has sold.

    Did the US mint produce 430,000, 440,000 or 500,000. And why is the real production number such a secret???

    I do appreciate you input and thoughts

  43. Kevin says

    This is a very nice design. I’ll pick up a medal for my 5 year old son every now and again as a cheap way to interest him in the hobby. They’re much more interesting than common pocket change and I’m sure there’s better things out there, but the military themes really seem to catch his attention.

    I’d love to spring for one of the larger medals, but the jump in price for a piece of bronze is kind of a tough pill to swallow.

  44. Bob Old Big Bird says

    Gentlemen,

    If you take what the US Mint has sold so far for 2015 silver proof set which is 259,240 and assume that is 3/4 of what they are going to sell this year then then sales number should come in about 324,050. If this is so it would be much lower then 2012 sales of 395,443. But once again how many will the Mint produce and then continue to sell well into 2016???

  45. Dave SW FL says

    BOBBs,
    The mint’ s annual report should be the source for final production of each product. As you have noticed, they will sell items until supply is exhausted. Sometimes items sell out in the year of production and sometimes not for many years! And some items (Limited Edition Silver Proof Set comes to mind) don’t even go on sale until the following year or very late in the year of production.

  46. Dave SW FL says

    Oops, I take back the statement that the annual report itemizes production numbers by type of set.
    I do remember some kind of final audited numbers for First Spouse and BBHOF coins and sets in one of Michael’s blog articles, but I can’t remember if there were mint set and proof set numbers. Anyone else remember seeing this?

  47. VA Bob says

    CaliSkier – I bought my Yosemite 3 in. medal back when they came out in 1992 (same as they sell today). The quality was decent, had a brassy hue to it (I prefer the copper colored ones more as they tend to patina better IMO). I doubt they had multiple runs of these over the years, but let that be a warning to those that follow medal “mintages”. If there is a demand, the Mint will punch out more. Shame on the Mint for even suggesting a mintage number.

  48. VA Bob says

    Clark – Are you sure the scratches on your small medals aren’t actually on the mylar? The reason I say is because I’ve seen pre-lens proof sets that looked ragged, until the mylar was cut open and the coins looked beautiful.

    The small medals still come in mylar. The large medals come in basically a plastic baggie. There seems to be inconsistences in the type of bronze used, perhaps by design, at least among different series and at times sizes. Could be different suppliers, but as I said some are brass colored, some more of a copper color. Some have a faux patina added.

    I bought the code talkers medal the Mint did many years ago. I believe it just honored the Navajo. While the tribe set is nice, I passed on it since I was already picking up the Spouses medals . Just so much to spend on pretty dreck.

  49. VA Bob says

    Bob OBB – I wouldn’t get too excited, even if the Mint stopped selling annual clad proof/UNC sets. There are less because people are losing interest in these. I’m sure a good portion of these are sitting in some kids sock drawer, a birthday gift from the crazy old coin collector uncle or grandfather. That’s not to say some perceived “small” amount couldn’t trigger the sale of some hype. It’s has happened in the past (1993, 2001, 2012, etc.) but when the music stops someone will be caught holding at the hype price. Definitely a “buy because you like it” item. Long term doesn’t bode well and even at a quarter million, I believe small future mintages are on the horizon.

  50. Sith says

    @VA Bob – You forgot the 1999 silver proof set,after the mint pulled it over quality issues. I remember it going to over $400 per set…its now worth $100. It had at the time the unheard of low mintage of 804,565

  51. Tinto says

    @Sith

    I remember that 1999 silver proof set well, got me started with collecting the Statehood Quarter sets. I had bought two and I sold one later to a coin dealer for around $250. I still have a complete run of those silver proof sets and continued into the ATBs but I’m going to stop buying the ATB’s starting 2016. And you’re probably right a low mintage nowadays really doesn’t mean too much anymore especially since the Mint started repackaging bits of the sets (like the quarters) into separate products.

  52. VA Bob says

    At least the silver sets have the PM intrinsic value. The clads rarely do well. That’s a shame, it harkens back to when these were the bulk of the Mints offerings (the sole products for a good stretch), and eagerly awaited by collectors. Simpler times.

  53. says

    VaBob–In many cases, scuffs and scratches indeed are on the mylar and, as you note, the medals inside are clean. I was referring to situations where either because of friction in storage or, worse, because the Mint ships smaller medals loose in boxes where they clank against each other and other boxes, damage is done through the mylar to the medal itself.

    I typically remove medals from packaging for grading (first spouses) or to place in Dansco albums and have found plastic/mylar sleeves do little to protect the medals, especially as mylar ages and gets brittle. This applies to annual first spouse medal sets in which the 4-5 medals float loosely in the envelope and often from there into the shipping box itself. Just another Quality Control issue for the Mint.

  54. Dustyroads says

    Sith, Thanks for mentioning the quality issues of the 1999 silver proof sets. I had that set along with several others that I sold but never understood why the `99 was so sought after. Since I’ve decided to get into coin collecting I’ve picked up a silver proof set every year and glad I do. I started my silver set collecting at the beginning of the AtB release. I stay away from the non PM sets because I want the intrinsic value. I have tried selling non PM sets, but they never did retain much value, even after many years they still only sell for about cost at release. I know the consensus is that the sets are all coming down in mintage and is just a natural reaction to having more numismatic offerings for sell at the US Mint, but the 2012 carries a very nice premium. If I could go back in time, I most certainly would buy all I could afford of those sets. I don’t think the US Mint will be ceasing sales of the silver mint sets before they surpass the 2012’s, but if they still are not selling well in late Dec. I may buy a few more just for fun.
    But I have to admit, I have my doubts the the Mint will operate the same way they did in 2012 because that was a unique time for the Mint. Sells for numismatic products where down33.3% from 2011 due to the increase in volatility following the years after 2009. I don’t see that happening now, so the 2015 silver mint sets will most likely stay on the shelf for sale as long as the 2014’s have.

  55. says

    Caliskier–I agree, although, the Mint has a larger canvass for 5oz Nat’l Parl quarters, which have longer diameter than the 3″ medals, but not nearly the relief or details found in the medals. I suspect the answer lies in the die and presses used for relatively low production medals comprised of three different metals, but I’m only hazarding a guess.

    I do want to clarify that my smaller 1.5″ Code Talker medals have marginal detail quality and are definitely not high relief or any relief at all for that matter. They are also several mm smaller than first spouse medals.

  56. CaliSkier says

    @Clark: Perhaps, with the ATB products, the limiting factor is how the details become cluttered when scaled down to the size of a quarter? Since most consumers vs numismatists could more or less give a rip what’s on our coin or currency, it would have been awesome had the 5oz pucks been where the focus of the designs had been. Including more detail and high relief or UHR! Versus having concern for how well the designs would scale down to the size of a quarter IMO.
    With that being said, I’ve been collecting the 5oz P pucks since the program began and really like how one can really check out the details in this larger format w/o the aid of a loop or magnifying glass.

    As others have mentioned though, IMO face value should have been changed from .25 cents to maybe $25?

  57. Hidalgo says

    Off topic – I received my US Mint order notification that my 2015 First Spouse Four Medal Sets will be packaged and shipping. This set may be the last one that the US Mint sells.

    I am uncertain if the US Mint will sell the Pat Nixon, Betty Ford, and Nancy Reagan medals individually or as a set. And I wonder what it will do with Rosalind Carter…

    I don’t expect this set to command a significant premium (if any at all) on the secondary market. However, it will complete my set of the First Spouse medals to date. And that’s a great thing — I’ll have saved $1000s compared to building a set of First Spouse gold coins.

  58. Sith says

    I was thinking after all this talk on my next order if the mintages is still low I will take a flier and buy another 2015 silver proof set.

  59. Sith says

    @CaliSkier – I would have just been happy if they could have produced an initial run greater than 60K. As far as the rest, high relief? They cant even produce the ATBs in a proof version. Instead we get vapor blasting. This process was done to provide a uniform, protective finish on each coin, and even then they had to buy new equipment to get the vapor blasting done correctly. Their were numerous mint error coins in 2010 including

    “…the Washington side was vapor-blasted but the Yellowstone side was untouched. The Washington side therefore resembles a Specimen while the Yellowstone side appears similar to a bullion issue. “

  60. So Krates says

    No matter how well executed they are, I don’t want ANY coins or medals to glorify or memorialize ANY part of ANY war. These themes reinforce a culture of militarism and ultimately help to prolong our evolution to a more reasonable species.

    “It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished UNLESS they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets”

    Voltaire

    For anyone who believes that the undeclared wars in Iraq were meant to or have “stabilized” anything, I have a FIRST COIN SOLD Chicago ANA JFK gold proof for your naive *ss………$1,000 veteran discount, only $99,000! USA!USA!USA!

  61. Bob Old Big Bird says

    Gentlemen,

    Thanks for all of your inputs. FYI yesterday I order several more 2015 silver proof sets. Hey at the current price even if it gets up to $100 it will be a fair markup

  62. Sith says

    @So Krates – One of the reasons I collect Peace Dollars is because it is the only US coin that celebrates and commemorates the restoration of peace. Anyway you are entitled to feel we should ignore the sacrifices of military members. I on the other hand appreciate the fact that we are not ruled by the Axis powers. I’m also thankful to the men and women who gave the ultimate sacrifice to our nation during WW2, these sacrifices maintained certain freedoms, one of them is called Freedom of Speech which among other things even allows people with your viewpoint to call them unevolved.

  63. Ends in Error says

    Some may think these Indian Code Talkers are a waste. I’ve not purchased a one, so I suppose I’m not a big fan. However I’m not thinking that they were a total waste. For those that want them , have at it.

    The Medals that really got me wondering are those Golfer Medals. What a waste of time those were.

  64. thePhelps says

    I have most of the code talkers medals and have no problem with my purchases. These are unique and interesting and mark an interesting history of the Native Americans.

    So Krates…good luck with your evolution…

  65. So Krates says

    @ Sith – Your logic is the same the police use when they tell me they are “keeping me safe” while they ticket me for supposed crimes with no victim and disregard my right to travel freely.

    Don’t kid yourself about lofty goals, honor and sacrifice, and such…of course they’d have you believe that malarkey. They’ve been selling that hogwash since Thermopylae. How else are old, fat war pigs going to convince rational young men to kill and die to protect the resources and revenue streams of the elite?
    No coincidence that despite near constant US military engagement since WWII you have to reach back 3-4 generations to find an example that at least one could argue military action was justified.

    I like the PEACE dollar also, thanks for bringing it up. It is neglected by a lot of collectors and even bullion stackers prefer Morgans. Always wondered why… the Liberty is actually a bit prettier IMHO. But now you’ve made me think because it represents Peace in word and name and maybe our aggressive minded culture just doesn’t relate to that as much (like FS coins).

    “I know not with what weapons WWIII will be fought, but WWIV will be fought with sticks and stones.”

    Albert Einstein

  66. says

    sith and thephelps— That’s as laughable and tragic as Barack Obama receiving the Nobel Peace Prize just as he was about to embark upon several overseas wars and drone countless civilians to death without due process.

  67. says

    And while we’re on the subject, let’s have a medal honoring the drone operators who massacred all those innocent civilians( we can even put dead women and children on the reverse with an eagle flying overhead as a reminder). USA USA USA If you don’t like US we’ll just bomb you

  68. Sith says

    @longarm – your post has what to do The medal Honoring Code Talkers…Just as reminder Japan did a good job bombing Pearl harbor. Fortunately we too away their ability to attempt to bomb us again.

    @So Krates – All true, but don’t blame the USA for WW2 in that case I believe it was the German\Japaneses\Italian populace that was duped into starting a war. If you have a problem with WW2 go tell the current populations of Japan and Germany how they were fools, not the US population who were kinda dragged into that war

    By the way new thread

  69. Sith says

    Just in case this thread is not dead

    @So Krates – “while they ticket me for supposed crimes with no victim and disregard my right to travel freely.” Is that the newest euphemism for speeding…are you now above the law. So much for that evolution thing. Just curious have you ever seen a pile up on the Autostrada or Autobahn..by the way driving is not a right its a privilege, a right can’t be taken away from you (IE you can lose your driving license)

  70. So Krates says

    @ Sith – I didn’t blame the US for WWII. The causes, like that of most major historical events, are complex. Most people forget that Hawaii was not a state then and was a contested part of both Japan’s and the US’s “spheres of influence”. The Hawaiian population in 1920 was 43% Japanese. Dig deep into the facts of the Pearl Harbor attack and you will find evidence of pre-knowledge and willfull ignorance of the impending attack. Air craft carriers conveniently not there, etc. Like almost all wars, as you say we were dragged in, I agree but would add, under suspicious circumstances. At least if we were speaking German now, we could go as fast as we want when feasible and not have to worry about revenue agents slowing us down.

    Actually, the victimless crime I was referring to was a seat belt violation. The revenue collector masquerading as a police officer restricted my freedom to travel for a substantial amount of time and issued a complaint. Who is the victim? What was the “crime”? Thank you officer for keeping me safe, thanks for collecting revenue for the city and keeping costs down for insurance companies who lobbied for these paternalistic laws while violating my rights.

    You are mistaken. Don’t buy into that privilege BS. “Driving” is legally defined as a commercial activity. I was not engaged in any commercial activity, just travelling on my way. Yes, one could argue transporting goods or fares is a privilege, but not a citizen’s freedom to travel unfettered. That was a right articulated in the Magna Carta about 800 years ago. Freedom of movement is a guaranteed right that should not be trumped by seat belt enforcement, dui checks, internal border inspection checkpoints, paperwork/document checks or whatever else the current government contrives to circumvent our human rights.

    “have you ever seen a pile up on the Autostrada or Autobahn.” Take that statement’s implications to their logical end…. 25 mph max. Why not keep everyone safe and sound? I’ll take freedom over safety every time. Don’t make me quote Ben Franklin, the man who hated the militaristic eagle but the Mint still forced one onto his coin (albeit a small non-threatening version).

    Ha! sorry it took so long to get to the coin reference

  71. Sith says

    LOL all this over a seat-belt violation…go talk to the bikers about helmet laws. You know you live in a free country you can change the law. Go for it, but while we are it lets eliminate airbags after all who needs those, why obligate a company to make safety a priority while not enforcing it on people…sorry Charley next you will tell me the income tax is illegal, and will complain when the IRS docks your pay. By the way do you remember automatic seat belts?…I do and they sucked I would rather that risk takers like you get fined than have those in my car. On a personal note I think prostitution, and drug use is a victim-less crime, but you don’t see me lighting up a joint or boning a hooker than complaining about how the state is violating my rights

    As far as WW2 once again what you say is true…but take your straw-man argument somewhere else,as nobody forced the Japaneses to bomb us, so once again go whine to the Japanese population on how ignorant they are rather than complain that the victims of their aggression are unevolved.

  72. Sith says

    By the way you have a warped sense of priority for an enlightened person, “if we were speaking German now” I know the least of my worries would be the speed limit as I’m not a pure “Aryan.” but hey at least I would avoid the gas chamber.

  73. Jerry Diekmann says

    Hidalgo – I did the same as you – collected one set of the FS medals each year, and saved thousands of $ in not b uying the gold versions. Those that did I believe are underwater on these coins. Don’t know why the Mint ever decided to issue them in gold anyway – why not the same alloy as the Presidents?

  74. Jerry Diekmann says

    So Krates – Ithink history will prove that the Iraq War, like the Vietnam War a generation before, was not started to stabilize any region or protect us from a mushroom cloud as Bush 43 intoned, but was done primarily to provide the warhawks like MacNamara and Cheney and Wolfowitz with the ammunition (pun intended) they needed to enrich themselves and their cronies at the expense of young soldiers who were sent out to fight the old men’s wars. MacNamara at least apologized for his actions before he died but I know Cheney will never apologize for anything – in fact, he wants us to get involved in another war – this time with Iran. More money for him and halliburton – the evil draft dodging coward!

    Sorry – not about coins, but we do talk about wars and the military which are featured on many of our commemorative coins.

  75. Jerry Diekmann says

    So Krates – I am studying German now, and I am so glad my native language is English. We have the simple word “the” – German has 16 different possibilities – 3 genders – 4 cases, plus the plural. Actually there are “only “6” different “the’s” – der, die, das, dem, den, and des. Same with our simple “a” – they have 6 different “a’s”- ein, eine, einen, einem, einer, and eines. Imagine having to try and remember every noun gender so you can use the correct ending, and for adjectives too! I guess if it is your native language, you pick up on all these variations, but learning German as a second language does have its moments. And contrary to everything you have heard about Germans being orderly and logical, their language is anything but. I invite any German speakers to give their comments. So as not to clog up this web site, my Email address is ja.diekmann@verizon.net.

  76. Jerry Diekmann says

    So Krates – I certainly hope you don’t ever get injured or killed by a freedom loving speeding motorist, especially one who is free to drink as much alcohol as he wants before he gets behind the seat of a 2000 lb. machine that can go 100 mph.

  77. So Krates says

    @ Jerry Diekmann – I appreciate the good wishes, don’t wanna die behind the wheel either! I hear ya about McNamara/Cheney. If you’ve never seen the unique documentary technique called the Iterrotron, check out “Fog of War” where Errol Morris gets unbelievably raw video of an apologetic Secretary of Defense at 85 years old.

    Kudos to you on learning German. That’ll stretch your mental muscles. A remarkably precise and direct language but quite burdensome and inefficient at the same time.

    There are states with a 55 mph max still held over from the fuel crises of the 70’s to promote efficiency. There are other states with a limit of 85. I am not advocating anarchy on the highways, just common sense and practical application… NOT a focus on a revenue stream for the government. Need more money? Pass a tax hike, don’t create a violation out of normal behavior and select citizens at random to pony up and pass it off as a safety issue.

    I do NOT advocate DUI. I have NO problem with someone getting pulled over for probable cause or reasonable suspicion and if necessary, arrested. I AM against unconstitutional checkpoints which violate my freedom to travel freely. These fishing expeditions are contrary to the Fourth Amendment. The need for personal liberty outweighs any safety benefit the checkpoints may or may not have.

    I would have thought you’ve all heard this a hundred times but it seems some need a constant reminder…

    “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.”

    Benjamin Franklin, Scientist and Critic of Eagles

  78. So Krates says

    @ Sith – “warped priorities…gas chamber…Arayans” You brought up the Autobahn, lol, that’s why I referenced it.

    No need to change the law. The good citizens of my state have determined there should be NO HELMET LAW. It’s AWESOME!! I see idiots all summer riding hard with hair whipping about in the wind. I won’t go around the block without a helmet…full face, visor down. That is the essence of the “pursuit of happiness” and part of what makes this country great.

    You said “why obligate a company to make safety a priority while not enforcing it on people…”

    Again it is simple…because it is commercial activity! We have determined that if one is in business, having certain standards and duties and obligations to the consumer are beneficial to a functioning society. It affects others directly. What I wear on my head while riding directly affects only ME and my PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS.

    Do I remember automatic seat belts? Hell yeah, I got em in my daily driver now. Thankfully they are the kind where you can detach the shoulder belt at the top and the warning chime stops after a few seconds. Wouldn’t have bought it otherwise. You accuse me of setting up a straw man but then you say:

    “I would rather that risk takers like you get fined than have those in my car”

    This is of course a false choice. Please explain why I should be forced to wear a seat belt and pay a fine at gunpoint if I don’t. What CRIME have I committed??

    “On a personal note I think prostitution, and drug use is a victim-less crime, but you don’t see me lighting up a joint or boning a hooker than complaining about how the state is violating my rights”

    Why not? You should if that’s how you feel! Nevada and many countries allow prostitution and the sky doesn’t fall down. Colorado and Washington allow joint smoking in the privacy of your own home. You said these activities are victimless, so if that’s included in your PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS and your state government forbids it, by all means you should complain, LOUDLY. Isn’t your right to complain what the soldiers and police are supposedly protecting and what started this whole discussion?

  79. So Krates says

    @ longarm – I too am critical of the dependence on drone strikes and the seeming lack of due process.

    I am also critical of the reference to the dead in Iraq when it only includes US soldiers. When the number of dead Iraqis clearly dwarfs the number of US deaths and the military avoids collecting real data on civilian deaths. Wonder why?

    You could call your coin the Collateral Damage dollar. Perhaps an obverse with the iconic image of the Vietnamese little naked girl crying after a Napalm strike.

  80. Kevin says

    Of all the overly convoluted and overreaching laws to rally against, you choose to take a stand against seat belt laws. Benjamin Franklin would be proud… or maybe he would recite some form of the “Penny wise, pound foolish” saying from his day.

    Seat belt laws are state laws, not federal, so commercial activity really has nothing to do with it. Feel FREE to move to New Hampshire which has no seat belt law. Just make sure you wear a seat belt before you make it there. And if you choose not to, then go ahead and make sure you reimburse the state for all the easily avoided expenses they (and us) incurred shutting down traffic and getting you to the hospital. I hope you have insurance, which is also subsidized by everyone else through their insurance premiums.

  81. So Krates says

    @ Kevin – Not taking a stand (although I might take “the” stand when the court date rolls around) just making a comment about laws intended to raise revenue and like you said, keep costs down for insurance companies. Expressing my opinion here costs nothing but time so I doubt Ben would consider posting foolish.

    Commercial activity has nothing to do with seat belts. I was making a distinction between the term “driving” (classically defined as commercial) and “travelling”; the former being a privilege and the latter a right. Also when you are engaged in business you have certain duties to consumers of your product or services that you don’t have to yourself or others on a personal basis.

    A motor vehicle collision with or without a seatbelt can cause traffic congestion as well as an ambulance ride. So should all accident victims reimbure people stuck in traffic or just folks without belts on? How would this occur? Your comment makes little sense.

    Answer the question, sir….What was the crime? Who was the victim?

  82. So Krates says

    @ Kevin – If you think I should be forced to wear a seat belt to keep your auto insurance costs down, then I assume you think smoking and eating McDonalds every day should also be illegal as that behavior also increases health insurance costs. YOU might want to move to NYC where Bloomie tries to legislate salt intake, soda size, etc. I actually have considered a move to NH. Keep costs down vs. PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. Easy choice.

    I already have a mother and a father, don’t need another. You?

  83. Kevin says

    @ So Krates –

    The crime would be you ignoring the seat belt law enacted and supported by the people of your state, and the victim would be everyone else having to bear the financial risk of you seriously hurting yourself. That would also include your family members who would have to deal with you in the aftermath, or the lack thereof.

    It takes 2 seconds tops to buckle your seat belt, or you could refuse to do it and run the risk that YOU become the victim in a car accident that may or may not be your fault, and may leave you unable to earn a paycheck or even dead. I’m pretty sure Ben would consider that a foolish chance to take.

    Really, any argument to the contrary is just plain stupid. Accident victims should just take 2 seconds to buckle up. I’m not going to even bother trying to rationalize a response to your odd question of how to reimburse people stuck in traffic.

  84. Kevin says

    I don’t care about NYC laws since I don’t live there and I don’t care about whether or not you need a mother of father. I also don’t care if you eat at McDonalds or smoke. Maybe you can bring those arguments up if you choose to fight your seat belt violation. I’m sure the judge will consider them to be valid rebuttals.

  85. Sith says

    @So Krates – Are you that ignorant? We were taking about traffic laws, you interjected that you would rather live under the Nazi’s than obey the speed limit or wear a seat-belt.

    But I digress the issue here is not that you are one of those live free or die people, it does not bother me , wear your seat-belt, don’t wear your seat-belt, smoke a joint whatever, but how dare you not at least acknowledge those that actually scarified to give you that right, but then again you somehow think Nazi rule would be better than what we have now. Two questions;

    Rather than bitch in a coin forum about unjust laws why don’t you take your case to court and challenge the constitutionality of the law? If your right you will win, at the very least why don’t you get people like me involved so we can change the law? But again this is irreverent to the topic at hand, the issue is that you feel that GIs like the Code Talkers are unevloved which brings me to my real question(s)

    Why do you consider the Code Talkers to be unevolved?

    In addition why do you feel you should get to choose to jeopardize your life and possibly the lives of other people in the name of freedom, by disregarding laws, yet when someone exhibits the same behavior by joining the military in the name of freedom you think they are unevolved?

  86. So Krates says

    @ Sith- You have grossly mischaracterized almost everything I wrote. A careful reading of the record will bear out I said no such things.

    We should call you Twist-Sith

  87. So Krates says

    @Kevin – I doubt it. The judge is part of the revenue collection system and usually cares little about the constitution. Best bet is to ask for a jury.

  88. So Krates says

    @Kevin – “The crime would be you ignoring the seat belt law enacted and supported by the people of your state”

    OK, so the crime is ignoring the law? Circular reasoning. What about the act ITSELF is criminal ?

    “and the victim would be everyone else having to bear the financial risk of you seriously hurting yourself.”

    I didn’t ask who WOULD BE the victim IF I got hurt. There WAS no collision. Only a violation of my right to travel freely in order to collect revenue… I asked not who is a hypothetical victim, but who is the ACTUAL victim. Who was harmed by my action? and please show me the damages. I will gladly pay my debt to society if I have wronged someone.

  89. So Krates says

    @ Twist-Sith – I’m not going to answer all your questions because you don’t really want answers. You want me to fall in line with the rest of the sheep. Your demand for me to acknowledge sacrifice is illustrative of the power of this military industrial death cult.

    Two examples of your Twist-Sithness is that I never used the word unevolved. What does that even mean? Evolution is a process. There is no unevolved or fully evolved, everything is constantly evolvING.

    I never said I would rather live under Nazi rule; that is laughable. It’s clear that subtle argument, sarcasm, and the like is lost on you.

    Please take the time to read carefully if you want to repost what you think I said.

  90. Kevin says

    It’s not circular at all. It’s pretty simple – the law says wear a seat belt. If you don’t then (regardless of your feelings on its validity) you have BROKEN the law/committed a crime/misdemeanor/however you want to frame it.

    And as I said, the victim is everyone else bearing the financial RISK of paying for your negligence which can easily be avoided.

  91. So Krates says

    @ Kevin – Yeah it’s pretty simple alright, if you’re living on Animal Farm. Are you not capable of examining the law ITSELF? Not the fact of whether or not it’s legal. Obviously it is illegal in most jurisdictions.

    Who paid for my negligence and how much? Again show me the ACTUAL victim and ACTUAL damages. Your talking about possibilities and hypotheticals. You are saying everyone is a victim of me not wearing my belt? Everyone who bears the risk of me getting (more?) hurt. “Everyone” also includes you personally right?
    So you, Kevin, are claiming to be have been somehow victimized by my lack of wearing a seatbelt when there was NO collision?

    “War is Peace
    Freedom is slavery
    Ignorance is strength”

    George Orwell, 1984

  92. Sith says

    @So Krates – “Your demand for me to acknowledge sacrifice is illustrative of the power of this military industrial death cult.” As opposes to your embrasement of a personal freedom death cult.

    FYI Its hard to to express sarcasm online but your post was not sarcastic, it was simply unintelligent . Your refusal to clarify your point is because you can’t. In other words you can’t answer it without falling in line with the “sheep” so you ignore it.

    Sorry I can’t clarify your posts for you, but in a nutshell you believe that you should be able to jeopardize your life by not obeying laws. This has nothing to do with honoring the Code Talkers, but it does demonstrate the hypocrisy of your position. Anyway an ad hominem attack is a logical fallacy, as you can’t answer the simple questions presented to you and you must once again resort to using a logical fallacy this must be the end of this “discussion.” Besides I’m getting bored of taking you apart and eating you for breakfast.

  93. So Krates says

    @ Twist-Sith – You are too vague. Sign of a lazy mind. Which post are you referring to? and what is your question?

  94. Sith says

    I’m lazy, LOL Here let me spoon feed you.

    Why do you consider the Code Talkers to be unevolved?

    In addition why do you feel you should get to choose to jeopardize your life and possibly the lives of other people in the name of freedom, by disregarding laws, yet when someone exhibits the same behavior by joining the military in the name of freedom you think they are unevolved?

  95. Kevin says

    It is laughable that you are now trying to use George Orwell to justify your position. The real Socrates must be proud.

  96. So Krates says

    @ Twist-Sith – Here is the quote you butchered like a little girl playing telephone at a slumber party. Only difference in your case is that there’s a written record that you’re too lazy to refer to. I am glad I amuse you.

    IAfter heated arguments about Tribes and Caucasians, I expressed dislike These themes reinforce a culture of militarism and ultimately help to prolong our evolution to a more reasonable species.

    Read it twice if you have to, didn’t call anyone anything.

    You are past the point of boring me, and thanks 😉 for eating me for breakfast.

    END OF DISCUSSION on my end and my apologies to all for going waaaay off topic.

  97. So Krates says

    “These themes reinforce a culture of militarism and ultimately help to prolong our evolution to a more reasonable species.”

  98. Jerry Diekmann says

    So Krates – I hate to join in, but you are just plain wrong. Society, at least in a democracy, makes laws that are supposed to benefit all the people. Your sense of freedom to do whatever you want is without merit. All of our freedoms have limits, like you can’t claim freedom of speech and the yell “Fire!” in a theater. The good of the people trumps your protestations of freedom to do whatever you want. Here in California we have a helmet law and it makes a lot of sense. It protects the rider in case of an accisdent. We really don’t want to see people crippled for life and we don’t want our taxpayer funds used to support some guy who is now a carrot because he flaunted a sensible law. Case closed. New thread.

  99. So Krates says

    @ Jerry D. – Danke. I appreciate your viewpoint. You seem like a very reasonable guy. I agree freedom has limits and I don’t claim freedom to do anything I want. It is clear to me that both yelling FIRE in a theater is over the limit and not wearing a helmet and seat belt are NOT at that limit. You would probably agree that these issues require a balancing test and I just fall further out on the Liberty spectrum than some others. California tends to take a more liberal, paternalistic approach, while 31 other states (including mine) have agreed to let the free adult citizens decide for themselves if they should wear a helmet. So it would seem that my position on freedom to not wear a helmet is shared by a majority of Americans. I mentioned that I ALWAYS wear a full helmet. It’s the freedom not to that I hold dear. Let’s agree to disagree and get back to coins

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