San Francisco Set Offering at Midpoint

The United States Mint’s offering of the 2012 San Francisco Silver Eagle Set has just passed the midpoint, so it seemed like an appropriate time for a recap and update.

The product which includes proof and reverse proof 2012-S Silver Eagles went on sale June 7, 2012. As a change from previous Silver Eagle products, the sets will remain available for sale only during a four week window ending July 5, 2012 at 5:00 PM. The sets will be minted to demand based on orders receiving during this period. Pricing was established at $149.95 per set, which some collectors felt was too high.

The prospect of a high mintage and the pricing seemed to dampen some of the early excitement surrounding the product release. Opening day sales came in at 85,341, which was less than the sales of 100,000 units that the earlier 25th Anniversary Silver Eagle Sets had achieved. After the weekend, sales had risen to 115,059, surpassing the earlier set. Of course, the factor to consider is that collectors did not have as strong an incentive to order immediately, since the availability of the sets was assured for another four weeks.

The daily sales numbers are summarized below. The first number column indicates the change from the previous daily total, while the second column indicates the cumulative sales total.

Increase Total Sales
June 8, 2012 85,341
June 11, 2012 29,718 115,059
June 12, 2012 6,245 121,304
June 13, 2012 4,067 125,371
June 14, 2012 3,169 128,540
June 15, 2012 2,972 131,512
June 18, 2012 3,956 135,468
June 19, 2012 1,210 136,678
June 20, 2012 2,185 138,863
June 21, 2012 3,029 141,892
June 22, 2012 3,281 145,173

After reaching a daily sales low of 1,210 sets on June 19, the daily sales total has shown an increase for each subsequent day. The most recent update from today shows daily sales of 3,281.

Cumulative sales have now reached 145,173, which is comfortably above the 100,000 total sales for the 25th Anniversary Silver Eagle Set, but still well below the 20th Anniversary Silver Eagle Set, which had a final audited mintage of 248,875.

The next few days will be interesting to watch to see if the recent upswing in the pace of daily sales continues, or if sales flatten or decline. The recent boost may have been driven by the distribution of the US Mint’s 2012 Summer Catalog by mail, which featured the San Francisco Set on the back cover. In all likelihood, I think there will also be a significant ramp up in sales for the final days of the offering.

Just for the purpose of running a basic scenario- if sales continue at an average of 3,000 sets per day, with a final jump of 20,000 sets for the last day, total sales would reach just over 200,000.

Readers are free to provide their own scenarios and predictions in the comments.

Facebook Twitter Email

Comments

  1. Brad says

    It seems strange that sales are picking up when silver spot has been plummeting! From simply a silver value standpoint, the set is becoming a worse buy by the day. $75 per ounce when spot is below $27. Of course, we all know that ultimately doesn’t matter in the long run, but perception is still an important factor.

    Despite the uptick, I still don’t see this one getting close to the 250K limit of the 20th Anniversary Set. I doubt we’ll be lucky enough to get a final mintage under 200K, but that would be nice if it did happen.

  2. J A says

    I put in my order on the first day but looking at these numbers it seems that they’re based on a lot of emotional buying. Meaning that everyone who thought they’d be hot items placed their order on day 1 and subsequent orders have streamed in from a smaller subsection of the collector population that doesn’t want to miss out on these sets if they’re going to have a low mintage or confused whether these will or won’t.

    I believe there will be a larger than expected jump in sales in the final week but particularly in the last week of sales.

    My prediction for a total mintage is slightly below 160,000 sets.

  3. J says

    Considering the current state of the economy, sales have been pretty strong. I have bought a number of silver eagle sets in Dansco albums from people giving up their collections because they need the money. I think everyone expected this offering to exceed the 250,000 sets the 20th anniversary sets sold. I would guess that the number of active silver eagle collectors has dropped significantly since the 2006 issue.

  4. John says

    I ordered a few sets on day one and will order a few more right before the sales end.

    I’ve been tracking the numbers daily and was surprised at the rising numbers. I agree that the numbers will probably hover around 3000 or less for the next week but some might find it hard to pay $75 an ounce for silver in a nice box when PM prices are dropping the way they are.

  5. Tom says

    I think the surge at the end by those holding
    will probably take it to the 290-300k mark.
    Nice Job on the story Mike!

  6. Jus-a-coin-luvr says

    Based on sales so far, 192,000 is what my current Trend-line is predicting…unless some “wack-i-ness” sets-in! 🙂

  7. Louis says

    I also think it will come in a little below 200K, and definitely below 250K even with last minute orders. The big question is whether dealers are waiting or already ordered most of what they are getting.

  8. bob says

    I bet more will be sold the last week of availability than were sold the first week. Final mintage: 350,000+

  9. Jim says

    In terms of this set being a numismatic investment (as opposed to a PM investment), at what mintage do you think this would become a poor investment. My thought is > 300K.

  10. saucexx says

    I’m really surprised that sales have been so relatively slow. At this point I think it’s highly likely final sales will NOT exceed the 20th ann set.

    Anybody have any numbers on cancellations at this point? Also what’s the risk that the mint continues to sell these after July 5th? I’m assuming at least some of these have been minted already. Maybe they’ve started on the 145K sold already. If they mint more than they can sell what happens to the left overs? The mint has shown no interest in melting down product these days. Would they end up in a vault and get released a few years down the road like the CC Morgan’s? thoughts?

  11. Sigo Plapal says

    It’s tough to pay this much when silver keeps bumping $26 but I still think it will exceed 250k with strong sales on the last day. I don’t care if they mint 1 million, I had to have a set. I think the only thing that will keep it from over 250k is if silver remains below $30.

  12. Mint News Blog says

    The Mint would face enormous backlash from collectors if they tried to sell the sets after July 5th. From the experience with the 25th anniversary sets, this seems to be something they want to avoid at all costs.

    They have definitely already produced some of the coins- most likely an initial production amount. Most likely, they will produce more based on projections and eventually the final order amount.

  13. RLP says

    An interesting follow-on to Brad’s initial comment concerns the “additional monies” levied by the Mint over and above the price of silver. The comparison looks at the 2006 Anniversary set (3 coins) vs.the2012 SF Special Proof set (2 coins). The London Fix (average) for the day respective set sales began was used to calculate Ag value. The calculated levy for the 2006 set was $20.83 per coin and for the 2012 set $45.47 per coin. In six years it more than doubled while inflation increased at approximately 2.4% per year for the same period.

    What message is the Mint delivering to the collector audience, mintage to demand so everyone who want a set can have one and at the same time continueing a trend of inflated pricing….

  14. Shutter says

    Also what’s the risk that the mint continues to sell these after July 5th?

    Probably zero, although if they had a last minute outage, they could decide to extend it by a day or so. They could also decide to sell S Proof Eagle by itself later in the year. Small probability of that, but a bit higher than zero.

  15. saucexx says

    @MNB

    So we can assume the mint has a process to mint exactly what was sold? I’m wondering what will happen to potential sets that are minted but canceled before they ship?

  16. Shutter says

    The big question is whether dealers are waiting or already ordered most of what they are getting.

    I’m thinking they already ordered the bulk of what they planned, but some of the bigger ones might decide to get more depending on how the sales go next week.

  17. Shutter says

    I’m wondering what will happen to potential sets that are minted but canceled before they ship?

    Same thing that happens to any other coins that are unsold. They’ll get melted down. Or used as exchanges for the small numbers that will get returned.

  18. McLovin says

    I was wondering what is the mint doing in regards to charging cards for the ordered sets? Are they putting holds on the cards or charging them? Just waiting to order a few sets, but don’t like to tie up my card if they are just putting a hold on them for another couple weeks.

    Thanks.

  19. VA Dave says

    I’m guessing 250k. I just hope the coins don’t fall out & bounce around like some did with the 25th anniversary set.

  20. John C says

    I have to say I am really surprised at the low mintage so far, I was expecting a mintage in the 600k to 800k range. I realize that spot silver is low, but they are special coins and all eagle collectors will want them if not right now eventually they will want them. It’s an absolute buy for me.

  21. Micro says

    McLovin, my credit card has not been billed or had a hold placed on it. From my past experience the CC hold will occur when the order goes to “in process” and will be billed when it ships.

  22. says

    It looks like the final mintage has a great chance of being below the 250,000 of the 2006 20th Annv. set.

    With that in mind, I’m more curious as to what the these sets may sell for down the road.
    $180 for a NGC PF69 2006 rev. proof is the lowest price I’ve seen recently. Most go for over $200, and a PF70 for over $400. Why should this 2012 S mint mark reverse proof sell for any less?

    I don’t see this reverse proof selling for less than $175 in a 69 grade if the mintage is below 250,000.

    As for the falling price of silver…the 2006 and 2011 Annv. sets will sell for about the same whether spot silver is $20 or $40….these are not really tied that much to bullion…they are numismatic coins. And this set will be the same.
    I look at the $150 issue price as $60 for the regular proof and $90 for the reverse proof. Again, IMO $90 for a reverse proof is a bargain….$100 less than a raw RF from 2006.

    Anyway, currently I plan on getting 15 sets graded, and I’ve done a lot of analysis (speadsheets) comparing what I think different grades will sell for, how many 69 vs 70 sets I expect to get and what I see as the low and high end of prices in both grades may be…this includes what my net sales would be on ebay after all fees(ebay, paypal, shipping) I compare my “net” revenue to my actual cost (Mint price + NGC fees).

    So, anyway, that’s what I’m doing….I’m not just buying these sets blindly, but I’m taking a calculated risk on making a profit from these sets. As I’ve said previously, I plan on keeping one set in OGP and one set PF70.

    Who knows…this may be the only reverse proof to ever have the “S” mint mark. And the regualar proof will have the a lower mintage than the 1994-P
    proof with a mintage of 372,168…beat only by the 1995-W.

    And so ALL reverse proofs will some of the lowest silver eagle mintages of all time.

    Of course, you can either agree or disagree with me… …I just wanted to throw some food for thought out there for you, and you make your own decisions!

    Where do you see prices going?

  23. Samuel says

    Steve, i am new to TPG stuff. i remember u said the fee is $20 apiece from NGC, is it the “Modern Special $20”?

  24. guama says

    as soon as we reach the last week, the numbers will rise more rapidly. Right now we are about 3000 per day. I predict we will reach about 7000 or so per day as long as the numbers are below 300,000. Numbers will crescendo the last week up until the last day.

  25. Leo S. says

    Michael

    Just received the Summer Mint Catalog and they have listed the remaining two Parks 5 oz silver coins as follows:

    Hawaii Valcanoes – September 24th
    Denali National Park – November 5th.

    Still nothing about these on their website.

  26. Val says

    It would be helpful if the Mint would put up a cancellation counter next to the sales counter. If there are no cancellations, so far, the counter could show a “0”. Cancellations are a issue with this offering.

  27. KC says

    If the sale trend behaves in a reverse manner, then it may reach 300,000 total mintages. My guess is that it may bring a premium of 200-300% in a few years since it starts at a pretty high point . But comparing with other Mint offerings, this could be still a winner. So I will still go with 20 sets at the last day or two.

  28. says

    @Samual, you are correct…when I calculate the total cost of grading 15 sets, it comes to just under $46/set. That’s$ 600(30 coins *20) the $8 handling fee, plus $35 for shipping to NGC and $45 for returned shipping. Total cost of $688….so, mint cost of approx. $150 + $46 = $196 for a NGC graded set based upon 15 sets submitted.. That is the cost basis I used for all my different “sell price” possibilites that I used to come up with a sales price “break even point” and anything below that is a loss, anything above that, a gain.
    Please let me know if I haven’t answered your question.

  29. gatortreke says

    I wonder if sales at the end might be hindered by the fact it is the July 4th holiday. I’m guessing there will be a number of people who are preoccupied with the holiday and the family events to remember the coin set so I’m wondering if sales at the end might be less than expected or perhaps the big rush will occur just before the holiday.

  30. TomP says

    I’m guessing around 300K sets. My own situation is that I haven’t ordered yet because I was on vacation this week. I didn’t want to take the chance of ordering right away and possibly have the set sit somewhere unsafe for a few days.

    Also as a procrastinator .. there’s 4 weeks to order, why do it today?

  31. guama says

    I just ordered one more set along with the s quarter roll and bag. While I was at it I ordered the kennedy half set. I have never bought the halves..so I thought why not.

  32. Shutter says

    Steve,

    I think using 20th Anniversary as a guide, is a bit optimistic. Only 35% and 19% of Proof and Reverse Proof coins got PF70. All proof eagles since then got at least 50% PF70. The 25th Anniversary set were 70% and 65%.

    Personally, I’m seeing $195 for the complete set in PF69 and $350 in PF70. Assuming quantity of 5 and 10 and your numbers for total cost, that works out to about 50% gross profit. Still not too bad.

  33. Dave in CT. says

    Shutter, kind of makes you want to keep them in the OGP and not get them
    slabbed with those numbers.

  34. auxmike says

    The mint did a great job on the 2012 Summer catalog, I’ll say! Anybody here save them?

  35. VA Bob says

    I feel the current sales number is indicative of the number of ASE collectors out there. Some will wait until the end, just because they can. Folks wanting their coins slabbed FS probably ordered early.

    There is also a chance the orders are a bit inflated. Let’s face it, who’s going to order a set and take a chance on getting a replacement if their is a quality problem. IMO most collectors that could afford to do so, probably ordered more than one set (or will). The real unknown is how many people are buying on speculation? I would venture to say there are between 125k and 200K serious (i.e. willing to pay the $75 spot silver price) ASE collectors in the US. Maybe another few thousand abroad, some of which may be unaware of this set. I know a few people holding 2006 Anni ASE in sealed boxes of 10, which tells me a good portion of those 250K are being held on speculation.

  36. rpw says

    I doubt these will go much above 250,000.
    As the numbers go up, more people (like myself) will cancel orders.
    I have ZERO interest if this set has a high mintage. Anything north of 200,000 is WAY to high in my opinion. Add to it – the fact that the more of these reverse proof that are minted, the less desirable they become (in my opinion).

    If I’m correct – I doubt you will ever see another “Units Sold Counter” on the mint webpage again. Provided it is accurate – it gives customers an advantage that could actually hurt sales figures. As I said – if the counter ticks up too high, people can and will cancel orders. If there were no counter – we would have no way to know what those sales figures were and would have to actually purchase the coins first, only to return them after the fact.

    Of course – the counter could generate more interest if the sales figures are considered low (as they are now). I think most collectors would consider around 200-250k as a reasonable mintage for this set. I my keep one set provided mintage is less than 250k. Anything more and I cancel all orders.
    It’s just not worth it especially given that silver is on a decline (probably for a long time to come now). Having just bought the last 4 ATB 5 ounce coins, I think those are a better investment. The have a really low mintage to begin with and are not even getting close to selling out. I think these will be halted at some point in the future making the one that have been minted much more valuable. Just my opinion (and hopes)!!

  37. rpw says

    One more thing……
    Regarding the counter on the Mint webpage for the 75th Set it states “This data is provided for informational purposes only and should not be construed to represent accepted orders or actual sales figures.”

    Exactly hat does that mean????????

    If the counter shows sales of 200,000 as of 3pm on 5 July – the final numbers better be reasonably close to that figure….otherwise – the mint intentionally lowballed the numbers and the counter was a SCAM.

  38. Shutter says

    Exactly hat does that mean????????
    It means that they are telling you the number of orders placed, not accepted. It means they haven’t validated any credit cards and people can still cancel orders. It’s not an actual sale until they charged your credit card and shipped the coins.

  39. bob says

    MCM is supposedly doing a giveaway on the eg1 sets, but they won’t actually make any sales at their shown price right now ….

  40. Louis says

    Jim B- No one is pushing anything on you. If you don’t want it, or anything else, don’t buy it.

  41. Piotr says

    If the total @ 3 PM is going to be 200000, then the max order number may be up to 240000. The order processing will stop @ 5Pm, that is 2 hrs. From what I recall, the mint can process 150 orders per minute. The total is based on fact, that orders are placed for 2 sets each.

  42. Shutter says

    Off topic.

    Yesterday I received 5 oz El Yunque coins from the mint. Having now seen them in person, I think that so far this this is the most beautiful ATB design on a 5 oz coin. I didn’t like it as much in a regular quarter.

    I did notice that the NQ0 barcode label on the back of the sleeve was applied over a different label on all of them. I peeled one of them back and saw that the previous label was for NP6, Gettysburg. I wonder if this indicates that the mint is ready to throw in the towel on 2011 ATB and beginning to recycle packaging. Has anyone else seen this?

  43. says

    Shutter,

    Very interesting comment in regards to AtB packaging. I don’t have a box to examine because I’ve been holding off on El Yunque a bit in hopes of the Mint capitulating on prices again. A question, have you acquired the the El Yunque bullion as well, and if so, do you like the uncirculated or bullion version better?

    As for the final sales figures of the SF set, I’m expecting it to be somewhere between 175K and 200K. I still am a little more bearish than most people on sales prospects for the coins, I think. When the sales per day fell as far as a thousand, I had been wondering whether the set would even reach 175K but I think there’s no danger of it staying under 175K now. I still remain convinced we get a figure under 200K though.

  44. Shutter says

    have you acquired the the El Yunque bullion as well, and if so, do you like the uncirculated or bullion version better?

    Alas no. I wasn’t all that crazy about other bullion ATB that I’ve seen. It’s a personal preference, but I just prefer the finish on collector version. I may still get some if silver craters to under $20, but only as bullion.

    I’ve been holding off on El Yunque a bit in hopes of the Mint capitulating on prices again.

    Remember that there is probably a limit to how low the mint will price collector products. Back in 1989 when silver was $5.50, proof eagles were sold for $23. I’m sure they have room to lower price from $205, but it’s not as elastic as bullion.

  45. ED says

    I hope the Mint ships all the sets the same week 7/27 , eliminating all the “first strike” “early release” labels.If the 2011 25th set sold out in 7hours and I was the last one to get one, I could still get a special label that it was one of the 1st ones to go out, when it was really the last one out..Maybe they can change the label to “low,medium or high mintage”LOL !

  46. Clemulus says

    I’m wondering if anyone has received their set(s) and/or what the delay would be? I ordered first day and says backordered & shipping date around 7/27? Seems to be a delay here.

  47. says

    Shutter,

    Depending on how you look at it, the 20th Annv. as a guide might be somewhat useful. As you said, only 19% of the RP were graded as 70.
    That leaves 81% or 202,500 as 69’s…and those sell for at least $180, usually more. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

    CO, Shutter…I have two of the bullion El Yunque 5 oz coins, and they do look great…the relief almost looks “high relief”

    Also, for anyone interested, APMEX is having a 5 day sale on certain items that started Friday.
    You can pick up the numismatic 5 oz AtB Gettysburg or Glacier with OGP & COA for $184.65

  48. DCDave says

    Problem is there are way too many offerings, 5oz ATBs, commems, annual sets, First Spouse, special sets, and now hate to use the word, but “circus” silver eagles.

    Just can’t keep up, and kindof don ‘t want to anymore.
    Miss the 20th century where you just collected annual sets, silver eagles and maybe a commem or two.

    Demand for this “S” set may never get too high since there is too much stuff coming from the Mint with now a bunch of low mintage stuff that few people even want.

  49. Mint News Blog says

    Clemulus- From the outset, the US Mint said the sets will not start shipping until late July.

  50. says

    MCM has projected PF69 sets at $189 and PF70 sets at $229….only a $40 difference for a 70 set seems very low. If their projections turn out to be accurate, I’m SOL….I’d really have to rethink my position on these.

  51. Shutter says

    Steve,
    Of course prices for 20th Anniv set are a useful guide. But it can be too optimistic at the same time. MCM is currently “projecting” $230 for PF70 Set. They may know something we don’t. O, and there aren’t 200K PF69 2006 RP. Only a smidgen under than 40K got that grade from NGC. There are an awful lot ungraded coins out there. Because this set has only unique coins, there might be less pressure on individuals to get them graded right away. This would increase prices for slabbed coins, but other factors (total mintage, high average grades, still crappy economy, tanking metal prices) will exert downward pressure.

  52. Val says

    After reading all of these comments on the counter, my view is that the display is a wild card. There’s a point where the counter is going to cause cancellations by the flippers. As for the 5 oz El Yunque ATB…it is a spectacular coin. I hope we see more great 5 oz coins like this one from the mint.

  53. says

    Shutter, I should have said any raw or 69 2006 RF sells for $180 or more. Last time I looked, raw sets were going for around $400.

    I would of thought that a PF70 RF would go for at least what MCM has projected for a complete 70 set($240)…like you said, maybe MCM knows something we don’t….or maybe they are lowballing to discourage others…lol

  54. Shutter says

    Miss the 20th century where you just collected annual sets, silver eagles and maybe a commem or two.

    In the 1990s it sure felt that we got more than just a commemorative or two. And in the 1960-1970s all we got were annual sets and very few new designs (all of them godawful).

  55. John says

    Shutter says:
    June 23, 2012 at 4:02 am

    I did notice that the NQ0 barcode label on the back of the sleeve was applied over a different label on all of them. I peeled one of them back and saw that the previous label was for NP6, Gettysburg. I wonder if this indicates that the mint is ready to throw in the towel on 2011 ATB and beginning to recycle packaging. Has anyone else seen this?

    …… I got two last week and notice the label change on both. I also order a NGC MS69 PL El Yunque because I like the design so much. I had a full set of 2010 bullion in PCGS holders and flipped them. I don’t like the PCGS holders for the 5 oz’ers (to cloudy). All my PCGS coins were graded MS69 “Proof Like” but the holder took away from it IMO. I might have kept the Mt. Hood if it was in a NGC holder (I like the water effect on this coin and have two “P” versions as well).

  56. Shutter says

    Re: MCM…I wonder why they don’t have a projection on the price of sets in OGP?

    They don’t need to. For another 13 days it’s $150. I bet that they put up “projected” prices to build up their mailing list and because people have been bugging them for a price. As they say, these prices are non-binding and therefore meaningless. They are currently asking $100 for regular 2012 proof PF70 eagle. I have to think that the value of S eagle will be higher than W.

  57. fosnock says

    CO

    I have both the P version and the bullion for El Yunque, the P version looks better

  58. Dave in CT. says

    Seems like the asking prices on the 20th Annv. set has declined some.
    If MCM prices on the 75th Annv. set are correct as stated above (for the 69/70’s), then I might just order one and save on the grading fees. Though I much rather have PCGS.
    My Lincoln comm’s.(09), I was offered just spot yesterday for the Unc/$35 for the proof. This one and the 01 Buffalo are my favorites. Just feel so much pride from within when I think of what these two represent.
    I recd.an email a this morning on my request of Australia putting the “P” mint mark on their Kilo and 10ounce silver coinage. I was told it is stamped on all unc’s. and proof coins in these formats. Thanks, I could not find the info anywhere.
    Again on the 75 Frisco projected 70 graded coins. I always presumed these would fetch the same monies as the 25th AGE set. Of course, with the total mintage figured in and accounted for. But $230/240 for both ? Word must be these coins are of the highest quality.

  59. Zaz says

    The 5oz in the medallion vb finish is spectacular, much more so than the bullion on the El Yunque release. Didn’t get a relabeled sticker on the NQ0, I assume The Mint ran out of the unlabeled packaging from their supplier, used whatever they had on hand which were the Gettysburg labeled boxes. There’s a very slim chance the 2011Ps will be shorted out from their 35K mintage.

  60. Samuel says

    The P El Yunque looks very nice, i feel it is nicer than previous ones. got two labels on the back of the sleeve.

  61. jm says

    I think MCM is saying that if you want a raw set, buy from the mint. If you are going to buy an ngc graded set MCM is going to be the best way to go because it is a lot cheaper for them to submit a set (by the thousands most likely) then for you to do it. I would buy once they go live and not preorder one. If they get too many preorders at their non binding price. I think you will see the price go up another $20, maybe more. Best of luck!

  62. John says

    Off topic.

    If you buy from APMEX watch their prices closely on their numismatic items (these are sometimes fixed prices).

    While I don’t buy from them much anymore I caught something that happened over the past two days. First I bought an item that had a fixed price, two days later (today) I see the same item with “Price Reduced” advertised. At first I was a little mad but then I looked closely at the new price to see what my loss would be. Now for the kicker, the “Reduced” price was $52 MORE!

  63. T1 Browserman says

    off topic

    as a farewell to the cent – a 5 oz copper and of course ‘minted to meet demand’

  64. Dave in CT. says

    T1 Browserman;
    Interesting thought, but think the HR ASE 5 Halo would come out before that one, lol. I invested in copper bullion (bars @ indian rounds) and was more out of interest, than the idea using of this metal as an alternative to buy bread, since I would not be able to get change for my gold and silver 1 ouncers. I have enough copper which I feel in case of a true emergency, would be able to get along until our government figured things out. Not saying this is likely to happen, but for the hell of it, I bought over 400 pounds of this easily tarnished stuff. I occasionally hand this out as a gift. I tell them it is for that day ! Always a lost expression on their face when I say this. Another reason that I went overboard was, we had a water softener installed years ago. For 12 feet of copper piping, it was an additional $500.00.
    So that helped me along as to stocking up on it. But I see that a copper round is going retail for about $1.69 or so. I have no doubt that in an emergency, business owners in general and the public would have figured out a fair value to trade and barter for goods and services.

    Nothing else to talk about at this moment !
    The next topic will be, “how to rebuild a Quadrajet” or a “Tri-power”, lol…

  65. Dave in CT. says

    jeff in tex,
    I have a feeling they will have the clicker up until the middle of August.
    My reason for this is, the mint will have time to adjust for returns that will
    be coming back, for obvious reasons. The first of August anyways. We will see. Jeff, earlier in my youth I lived in Garland, just south of Dallas, I think. I worked as a truck mechanic and as house mover, both part time. The business was called Tex-Sun Movers, and I do not know if they are still around or not. That was many moons ago. Always loved those Texans, and were they big on that rivalry w/Oklahoma (football). Never have seen that kind of fan intensity that went on while living there or working a move. To this day,I still have not experienced that loyalty anywhere, and I have traveled some !

  66. Don says

    From a purely aesthetic viewpoint, this two coin proof set displays better than the 20th and 25th anniversary sets. Having the proof coins standing alone, along with a showy display box, makes for an eye-popping collectible. Of course the bonus is that “S” on the coins.

  67. Samuel says

    For MCM, they always dump large quantity of graded “current” coins on ebay, so, they usually can’t project prices, bidders decide. of course MCM can control the pace of dumping. my experience is that they usually r the cheapest, but they will run the show for a long time.

  68. Shutter says

    Samuel, Champion Rare Coins (CRC1) out of Miami dumps even more, and typically in rapid succession. They probably do much higher proportion of their business on eBay, as their website sucks mittens. But if you’re patient, you can sometimes buy something at a reasonable price from their auctions.

    I suspect that some of those large moderns dealer sell to each other as often as they sell to the rest of us.

  69. Shutter says

    John,

    You’re right about NGC holders being better designed. Apart from foggy quality of PCGS plastic, the white core of NGC just emphasizes the coin better by isolating the coin from distracting background. In the case of ATB holders, another plus is the ability to see some of the edge lettering. And they are easier to photograph. NGC scratch-resistant holders are even better.

    BTW, this refers to quality of the holders only. I’ve no interest in religious wars about relative merits of grades by the two companies.

  70. jeff in tex says

    GO!!! BUCKS, I ‘m from OHIO myself. Dave from CT. These Texans are crazy over the red river football battle each year.

  71. Dave in CT. says

    What I have been trying to say ! Then you have those muscle car fanatics, whomever they may be. Ohio huh ! hmmm…

  72. jeff in tex says

    Dave, I never had a muscle car but, my brother did. 1969 Dodge Changer, and a 1974 Road runner. My brother in law also raced a 1970 Dodge charger with the nose and fin

  73. RPW says

    @shutter

    I just got my 5 oz El Yunque coin yesterday.
    You are correct. The NQ0 barcode label was placed over another label. I didn’t
    remove it so I don’t know what label is underneath. I also received the NP8, 9 and 10 coins and none of those has two labels.

  74. says

    Re: mint labels…this isn’t really anything new…I’ve got 2010 Proof Silver Eagls in OGP with labels placed over another…I don’t see it as any big deal.

  75. Dave in CT. says

    Steve, I have labels on my 2010 Proofs. Never thought anything about it until today’s posts. I recd. mine in Dec. 2010, hmmm.

  76. Shutter says

    I’ve got 2010 Proof Silver Eagls in OGP with labels placed over another…I don’t see it as any big deal.

    Maybe not. But Proof ASE box is only used for another proof ASE, right? So either someone went crazy with a label gun, or they had unused packaging. Perhaps left over from 2009 Proof ASE, which were never minted, or even 2008 which were no longer on sale. Gettysburg ATB is still on sale. With 13K unsold and less than 100 weekly sales, they may be realizing that they will not be able to keep them around for another 3 years and are quietly getting them ready for the melt.

    Or it could mean nothing at all.

  77. Shutter says

    I found one auction on ebay for the reverse proof from this set and he/she has sold 10 of them for $179.99 thus far.

    You could go insane trying to reason out some of the imbeciles buying on eBay. What kind mental dwarf would pay $180 for a coin without OGP, rather than $155 for 2 coins with OGP. Maybe its the tantalizing offer to 2 clad halves? Nope. Still stupid.

    This guy is also trying to sell regular S Proof for $60. So far on suckers. Bet you dollars to donuts, he’ll be selling COA and OGP for $20 separately.

  78. alvaro says

    Orosanto has the set for pre order at $209 in ngc 70 what is going on, dealers must know something.

  79. Piotr says

    @ MCM you can preorder the set, but it is a non binding agreement. The price is an estimate too. They are saying that you can preorder with them, skip on the mint, and when 7/6/12 comes the real price will come. Maybe a little longer, but you get the point. Then, they will contact you to see if you still want to buy your coins. they can’t force you to buy from them, but they sure can discourage from buying in OGP @ issue price. This bogus estimate is another trick on their part.

  80. alvaro says

    Chattanooga coins $259 ngc 70 in red oak box mint ptoducts $255.99 in ngc 70 moderncoinmart $229 in ngc 70 orosanto had it for $209 but I think they took it down already. Its gonna be a bust for regular flippers cause the big dealers are offering them in 70 for about the price of certification so how is regular people gonna make a buck. I bet lots of cancellations by regular folks thinking of flipping. Maybe thats what this big dealers are doing to drive the mintage lower at the end by disencouraging regular people. It had me thinking for a minute mmmm maybe I should cancel my order with the mint and buy a 70 set for $80 more but it might be a lie then I would end up with nothing. So im keeping my order with the mint I wont take a chance moderncoinmart lol. I bet at the end they will rise the price to like $299 at least.

  81. alvaro says

    Exactly Piotr I think its a scam no way they will sell a 70 set for only $80 above ogp. I must admit it had me thinking for a minute maybe I should cancel my order with the mint and buy a 70 set for $80 more. But it might be a scam. Then I will lose my mint order and the new shipping date for new orders is 9/28/12

  82. alvaro says

    The big dealers might be working together putting low cost for a 70 set so people dont buy ogp and keep the mintage low then at the end they will rise the price up ridicously like the 25th anniversary did. It aint gonna work MCM and company people aint gonna cancel their mint orders to buy from you.

  83. says

    i have a queation, im pretty new to collecting. i ordered 3 of theese sets, and want to get 2 of them graded. i keep reading to keep them in OGP, which i guess means original goverment packageing? now is that the whole box they send to you, or the case is comes in, inside their shipping box?

    2nd howshould i go about sending in the coins to get graded, and to whom do i send them to.
    any info would help very much.
    thanks in advance

  84. Hidalgo says

    The price of silver as of this writing is about $26 – $27 (US) per ounce. So the bullion value of the 75th anniversary ASE set is about $52 – $54 (US). The cost of the set is $150 (US)…..

  85. Kelly says

    Food for thought

    How many orders are inflated dramatically since there is no limit to ordering. How many have over ordered only to be cherry picked and then to return any that will not grade 70??? I cant wait for Michael’s sales report for about three weeks after shipping begins to see the returns.

  86. stephen m. says

    Hidalgo, If silver goes low enough for the 75th sets to be repriced wouldn’t the time clock for the sales period for them run out before the new price comes into effect and is posted by the mint? I think so. I went ahead and ordered my set while the getting was good.

  87. KEITHSTER says

    OK closest without going over -my guess for final clicker counter 234,567. But after cancellations and returns all bets are off. Best number I COULD COME UP FOR FINAL MINTAGE WAS 198,765. As for the later shipping date maybe a package problem may be them boxes are on a slow boat from CHINA. Because the MINT can surely make the amount of coins needed in a short time. My guess is a lot of the later shipping will be said cancellations and returns.So much for sitting on the fence hey ? With the stagard shipping and all what time next year do you think will know the FINAL MINTAGE.?

  88. guama says

    They changed the shipping order? I ordered my 2nd set on Friday and shipping is slated for 7/27/12 as for my first order. Wow…that’s a far jump in dates

  89. John says

    alvaro says:
    June 24, 2012 at 5:12 am
    New shipping date is 9/28/12 wtf

    That date is for new orders. This is why I placed my order on day one, my shipping date is still 7/27.

    I was planning on ordering a few more this week but the new shipping date might mean that I’ll be getting rejects from previous customers. On the other hand since the mint doesn’t charge you C.C. until it ships it gives me 2 months to see if I want to cancel before shipment. For flippers that are on the fence about how many additional orders to fill this is a good thing.

  90. guama says

    i thought the same thing John. Maybe they only minted 150,000 and now are going to mint more to demand. Could it be possible that the ae’s that are not perfect will be returned, repackaged and sent out to customers? Wow…could impact future sales and future speculators. Glad that I was a crazy and didn’t wait.

  91. Auxmike says

    Dave in CT, thanks for your service. Sounds like it was interesting to say the least !

  92. jm says

    This is how they are going to deal with cancellations and returns. If you are a flipper and already have your order in, I think this makes your sets more valuable (first strike eligible) For those waiting to order, I have no idea why. There was nothing to be gained by ordering late. Of course. if you are a collector, haven’t ordered yet, and like your coins in OGP, this is a non event.

  93. kevin says

    48 hours after big dealers announce ridiculously low prices fro eg1 sets, the Mint has given them a big F U by delaying shipment on orders past 145,000 for an additional 2 months, thereby giving increased meanign and value to the ngc er sets the dealers just decided to give away! hahahahaha

    So, will they take back all their recently promised prices or stay true to their word?

  94. Gary says

    Mintage numbers only matter to flippers not collectors!! Collectors like paying for overpriced priced unlimted mintages!!???? Seems like i am hearing alot of “collectors” chirping about mintages and speculating on price!! Sounds like alot of collectors have a little flipper in them. All the collectors should be satisfied because the market will be flooded with the 75th Anniversary Set!!

    OMFG People!! Am i the only one who wants my coins to be collectable?

    I believe a collector is someone who trys to put together a coin collection of high quality coins and rare coins…maybe i am wrong, maybe a collector is someone who just piles a bunch of over minted crap in his closet?

  95. Val says

    Some comments suggest that after the flippers and dealers receive their sets, evaluate them for resale, and then return the sets that don’t measure up, could this mean that the Mint would reopen sales, say in October, in order to sell off the returns no one wants, because of quality issues? Anyone have any viewpoints on this?

  96. TomP says

    I agree with guama that perhaps 150,000 were initially minted. This would tie in with a limited initial order by the Mint for the wooden boxes. The Mint has to be concerned with a large leftover supply (unless they plan later to offer another 2 coin set and will store the boxes in the space vacated by the Gettysburg ATB-P relabeled boxes – lol ).

    After the sales close-out, another partial batch of coins and boxes will be made to allow time for cancellations before the first delivery starts. This then will give a truer picture of what the final order total will be. Meanwhile returns will be evaluated for scrap or delivery to another customer. Further batches will be made as warranted over the extended delivery period until the process plays out. Any sets left over due to late cancellations or acceptable returns will be sent to the Mint’s stores. IMHO I believe the greatly extended delivery date for new sales adds credence to this theory but my recent readings of the Mint’s tea leaves hasn’t been great. LOL

  97. guama says

    Makes perfect sense, Tom . My husband thought that they would put the leftover sets at the mint stores too. But, could they so that after the sales period?

  98. says

    Dang, with silver at such an attractive price right now, it’s disappointing that Provident does have ANY 2011 bullion 5 oz AtB’s…they do have the El Yunque.

  99. Gary says

    Steve..Ebay wont do anything about this because everybody that wants one of these sets can get them!! The cry babies who never got the 25th Anniversary Sets were the cause of that problem! Ebay never has any problems with people pre selling regular silver eagles months before they have them in hand, people have been doing that for years!
    That 100k mintage was the best for the silver eagle program. This 75th Anniversary Set is just a bone the mint is throwing the poor saps who didnt give the effort to get the 25th Anniversary Set.

  100. auxmike says

    @Gary
    “This 75th Anniversary Set is just a bone the mint is throwing the poor saps who didnt give the effort to get the 25th Anniversary Set.”

    That’s quite harsh. MANY people have to be at work during the day and we don’t all have desk jobs with computers at hand where we can try to buy stuff when the boss is’nt looking. We put our “effort” into keeping our jobs. I think you need to deflate your head a bit…..

  101. Shutter says

    auxmike,

    This guy is awesome! He cut and pasted text from NGC announcement and included submission instructions.

  102. auxmike says

    Shutter,
    Yeah, I almost wanted to ask if he would be sending along graded coins!
    It’s real deceptive showing that box like that….

  103. Shutter says

    He isn’t the only one. There are several selling empty cardboard boxes. Several others have posted pictures of a plain 2012 W Proof ASE, and a bunch are using stock photos they “borrowed” from the mint. I’m pretty sure that all of those will become additional violation of eBay policy requiring real pictures (this goes into effect next week, right?)

    Personally, I would encourage everyone to report these fraudulent listing to eBay.

  104. Dave in CT. says

    Auxmike, I have to agree with you about everything. This Gary poster, well anyone that didn’t get a set, and that Gary refers to as saps/didn’t give the effort.What a comment to make. This guy like some others, seem to be very, very, young in the mind. Who makes comments like this, but immature and very young, little self-respected individuals. Auxmike, sad that so many boys have to be on here and have nothing to do, but just be who they are. That would be guys that have not made it successfully in the business world and have no social skills except the most important one, that is to excel at being the top BULLY. Comes from the dysfunctional family they were brought up in or the local orphanage that eventually kicked them out. Ignore Gary’s comments.

  105. This Gary poster says

    Thanks Dave…so basically you are saying that the mint ISNT doing this 75th Anniversary Set to make up for all the people who didnt get the 25th Anniversary Set?? That is very young in the mind!! How can such a successful established business man of your caliber not see that???? I would think someone who has made it so successfully in the “business” world would see right through that. Ok anyway..back to the orphanage!

  106. Hidalgo says

    @Dave – Gary ain’t the only poster here on this blog who lacks social skills. Take a look at the posts here — check out some of these characters. Their cynical posts are a reflection of how they run their businesses.

  107. alvaro says

    Finally my order has updated to in stock and reserved still the ship date is 7/27/ my status was in backorder before. I guess the mint is ready to start shipping the first 150 000 sets hopefully in 2 Weeks. The 25th anniv set shipped before the mints projected date. So this maybe around mid July. Too bad for the people that waited to order they will have to wait for the second wave from 150 001 to 300000 and maybe a third wave from 300001 to 450000

  108. guama says

    Sorry, Gary…I’m one of those “saps” who “cries” about not getting a set. I do have a day job and will not jeopardize it by using the computer for personal use. It made me crazy that I put in an order at 5:30pm and was on wait list for a couple of weeks and yet did not receive my order. It also made me crazy when I saw ads in coin mags. Really?
    Have some compassion:) This offering is about letting the collectors have a nice set and not about gouging the public with super high prices.

  109. Brad says

    Alvaro,

    That’s good to hear! I ordered in the first 10 minutes and my order is still in “backordered” status. Hopefully it will switch to “in stock and reserved” sometime today. That would be great to get it in early July instead of early August!

  110. Broooster says

    @ Gary, “That 100k mintage was the best for the silver eagle program”. This may be true, but what WASN’T the best for the program was the household limit of 5. I don’t think there would have been any fuss over 1 per household. Then more people would have had the chance at scoring a set.

  111. Brad says

    Brooster,

    You’re right about that. The Mint was using archaic thinking when they established that household ordering limit. Collecting has changed a LOT since 2006, when it took 2-1/2 months for the 250,000 limit of 20th Anniversary Sets to sell out with a limit of 10 per household. Today, those would not last nearly that long. No, the Mint should have realized that a limit of 5 was far too high for the 25th Anniversary Set.

  112. Shutter says

    Broooster,

    People would have complained no matter what process the mint chose. It’s in their nature. Also, not matter what form of rationing the mint chose, some people would have found new ways to defeat it. Leading to more complaints. That’s why this year’s system is much better. Limited window of non-rationed availability means that everyone has a chance, and those who thought they were going to be too clever, will get theirs two months later.

    Incidentally, I suspect that this new ship date may exert downward pressure on the remaining sales. Those who want a set or two for themselves will still buy, but the opportunistic flippers would be stuck with product after all the early eBay excitement died down.

  113. Shutter says

    Collecting has changed a LOT since 2006, when it took 2-1/2 months for the 250,000 limit of 20th Anniversary Sets to sell out with a limit of 10 per household.

    One thing that changed a lot is the price of silver. The 20th Anniversary Set cost $100 when price of silver was $10, but folks could still remember paying less than $5/oz. The 25th Anniversary Set was $300, but people still remembered that only 6 months earlier silver came close to $50. If A25 was priced at similar mark-ups as 20th Anniv and San Fran Set, it would have been $500. At that price it would have taken a bit longer to sell out.

  114. Brad says

    Shutter,

    Yes, those who only want to order these if they will be “First Strike” or “Early Release” eligible may have missed the boat if they didn’t order by last Friday. Heck, maybe I should sell my first-day order to someone who cares about such nonsense, and just order again now to arrive later. It ultimately doesn’t matter to me when my sets ship, because I always keep them in OGP anyway. But, if someone would be willing to pay me a premium for sets that qualify for that meaningless designation, they’ll be welcome to them!

  115. Nate says

    I just ordered a second set this morning. If the new ship-date is related to selling out of current inventory (maybe 150k sets) I’m betting that my order will still ship from this initial batch. Between cancellations and orders that don’t get accepted (like bad credit card numbers) I think orders from the beginning of this week have a chance to ship with the first batch of orders.

  116. Shutter says

    I think orders from the beginning of this week have a chance to ship with the first batch of orders.

    You may be right, but if all you cared about is quickly flipping them for a profit, would you take that chance?

  117. Shutter says

    It ultimately doesn’t matter to me when my sets ship, because I always keep them in OGP anyway.

    Even if get them graded, the first strike stuff is mostly meaningless. But in the context of eBay, first sales are breathlessly high. If I remember correctly, the very first set graded 70 was sold on eBay for something like $3,400. We may need to wait 50 years, before that price is seen again.

  118. Dan says

    Is there any way to know for sure that when you order a set and receive one that you’re getting the sets in the order they were produced? That would imply some sort of FIFO (First In First Out) system. To me it makes more sense that the system is more FILO (First In Last Out). It’s just a point of curiosity. The only thing that one is assured of whether it be a limited mintage or limited time frame is that they got in before the cut-off. And this whole notion of Early or First release is nothing more than a money making scheme for the graders.

    I don’t agree with the notion that the 75th Anniversary set is a bone to collectors and I don’t agree that if you could not marshal up the resources to purchase multiple 25th Anniversary sets (i.e. more than 5, a clear violation of the US Mint’s stated policy) that you’re somehow less of a collector than someone else. Many people have jobs or away in the service of this country and cannot marshal of those resources. I believe that the Mint wants to capitalize on a product that they innovated and released. If they can get more people interested in collecting Reverse Proofs, etc … then they are likely to produce more.

    The mint to demand is an allocation system that for a limited period assures a broad coverage of the product. Had it not been for those collectors seeking to make a quick buck at the expense of their brethren, I don’t believe the mint would have had to resort to a time limited system. I like to think of it as a consequence of greed.

  119. Shutter says

    Is there any way to know for sure that when you order a set and receive one that you’re getting the sets in the order they were produced?

    More importantly, if you did know, so what? With a very large issue, the mint uses multiple die sets. Is the last coin struck by the first die really better than first coin struck by the second die?

  120. Clair Hardesty says

    The FIFO system only applies to orders and shipments and is not applied to the level of individual orders. PBGS sends orders to fulfillment in groups and it is possible that one picker can get ahead of one who received a group of orders before him/her. Also, orders that are tagged (in the track order system) as “shipped” after 3PM ET will not actually go out until the next day, with all of the orders “shipped” up until 3PM ET that day. As far as the order of production, that is lost almost completely as coins are placed into their packaging and shipped to PBGS and stocked and picked for shipping to customers. Order of striking with any particular die set is totally lost, starting with the placing of the coins into sets since the two coins in this set have different die lifetimes. RP die don’t last as long as standard proof die.

    I think that an order that was marked “in stock and reserved” was a mistake. I don’t expect the mint to begin shipping any orders until sales conclude, and when an order is normally changed to “in stock and reserved” the expected ship date goes away. Do you have some other items on the same order? The mint will typically break up such orders and ship the in stock items now and the backordered ones when they become available. Just as a side note, “backordered” at the mint/PBGS does not mean what it does at most other places. Here it often means “we have your item in stock but we are not ready to ship your order yet”.

    My two set order from 6/.7 still says expected to ship on 7/27 and my single set order from 6/23 says expected to ship on 9/28. These dates are really just placeholders, not actual dates that the mint has calculated. They really mean “in a while yet” and “quite a bit later that the other ones”. After all, all orders marked 7/27 won’t ship in a single day (or anything close to it). If the mint struck 150,000 coins initially, then they should not have to strike that many more to fulfill all orders and may not begin a second striking until after sales conclude. That would go a long way to explaining the 9/28 date.

  121. Dan says

    @shutter

    My point was that it is not possible to know when your coins were produced. If the coins were produced with a “just in time” system (which I don’t they are) you’d get a coin fairly close in time to when you ordered it. I was thinking that the Mint makes a run of coins (perhaps hundreds or thousands, or greater) and the coins are packaged & stacked. The first coins may well be at the bottom of the pile, and when orders are full-filled it’s not possible to take the ones at the bottom of the pile, rather the ones near the top.

    So this whole notion of Early or First release is bunk. It’s something that graders came up with as a means of taking more money from your pocket. An Early/First Release Proof 70 is no different than a plain old Proof 70.

  122. Shutter says

    Dan,

    I can’t disagree with you. I was only pointing out that even if you could know the strike order, the “First Strike” designation would still be bunk.

  123. saucexx says

    @Dan,

    “I like to think of it as a consequence of greed.”

    I think of it as a consequence of complaints. The mint put the 5 per person limit in place. Whoever ordered had every right to get the max if they wanted. Some collectors whined they couldn’t get one. Now they can and yet the whining continues because it’s mint to order. The mint does a lot of questionable things, but it seems they just can please some people.

  124. Wes says

    I just received the summer catalog today three days later than others who have posted .

  125. T1 Browserman says

    FIFO = first in……first out.

    “A good businessman always makes ’em wait”
    and this will be the scenario for fullfilment of this offering. ‘Mint to demand’ means they will WAIT for everyone to make up their minds. I expect the variance will be as close to zero as possible; i.e. the mint is actually using calculus to satisfy its entire collector base and NOT throwing us a bone as was mentioned, This set marks the 75th anniversary of San Francisco’s operations at its newest location on the west coast.

    BTW, if you’ve got the business, I’ve got the time.

    It took some time to get my order in on the 1st day of offering and am content to let it sit open until they are good and ready to begin shipping at PBGS.

    Think about this….as an added restriction for this offering, the right to return in 7 days should have been elimated; THAT would definitely have sifted those that are IN or OUT and force the flippers to keep what’s sold as proofs and stop the whining about MINISCULE flaws.

  126. Brad says

    We’ve passed the 150K mark. Today’s update shows 152,047. I thought it might be higher than that, given the recent upswing in orders each day.

    I still haven’t seen that summer catalog that’s been referred to. Maybe mine came in today like Wes’ did. I guess I’ll find out when I get home from work tonight.

  127. T1 Browserman says

    Dave in Ct
    Both of us have the right TO or NOT TO collect any of the offerings.

    I do collect the 5 oz ATB ‘P’s only because I allocate funds (not much) for it’s purchase. In fact, I am going to build a special cabinet for display of the entire set (should I live that long). I began collecting in 1999 with the silver 50 state program. As you mentioned I was working at the time and was rarely able to visit the website at work let alone place and order. At home, I was using an XP home edition computer with dial-up service. I finally purchased a Windows 7 computer with option to upgrade to Windows 8 later this year and comparing the two operating systems would be like comparing a muscle car to an exotic; hence my trouble when attempting to order the 25th anniversary (that took 3.5 hours).

    If I could, I would collect First Spouses and the latest Buffalo but Au is out of the question for me. I allocate for the Ag and Pt offerings only. I have all the other Buffalos and the mint refuses to change the design as was written into Public Law 109-145
    http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-109publ145/html/PLAW-109publ145.htm

  128. Dave in CT. says

    T1 Browserman, Cool @ I didn’t know the Windows 8 was going to be out this year. If I upgrade, will I be able to visualize and emotionally feel that demolition derby I was involved in many years ago ? But this time, I will be driving my 71 Cuda, at least in the time trials ! lol !

  129. Don says

    Maybe the grading companies that issue “First Strike” or “Early Release” designations secretly have representatives at each Mint facility standing next to the mint presses, who then follow the newly minted coins to the packaging area, and then run over the warehouse to see where the boxes are placed for shipment..
    Seriously, these labels do not do any good for the hobby other than mislead uninformed buyers, who pay a needless premium for such nonsense.

  130. Dave in CT. says

    Don, They do have representatives by the presses. Where have you been. This is the only way to verify FS/FR/ES’s. What I don’t care for about these representatives, is that the us mint doesn’t pay them any benefits. That’s not fair.

  131. Don says

    Dave,
    I guess I must have missed seeing the reps during my tour of the Philadelphia Mint. Maybe they were on their lunch break. Then again the public viewing balcony at Philly is about 4 or 5 floors above the production area so they may have been difficult to spot.

  132. saucexx says

    “Buy the coin not the label”.

    FS and early release are rubbish and I wouldn’t pay a dime extra for them. Now if you want to pay ME a premium to sell you one I guess that’s another matter……………..

  133. Clair Hardesty says

    My favorite is still the PCGS “First Strike” label, which they define on the label on the reverse of the slab as “Delivered Within First 30 Days of Initial Release.” This, to me is a lot like saying “100% Duck” on the front and saying “Duck is made entirely of chicken and chicken by-products” on the back. How exactly does delivered and released have anything to do with strike? You can’t redefine common terms to mean something they do not. “First Strike” does not ever mean first delivered and in fact what they really mean is not “delivered” but “shipped”. I suppose they understand that even the most naive collector would know that there is no value in “First Shipped” provenance. Unfortunately, many people don’t understand just how short die lifetimes are for special numismatic issues compared to mintages and still believe that there might be a correlation between release and strike dates or between strike dates and strike quality. The 2009 UHRDE die sets were lucky to strike 300 coins before being retired. I would be surprised if RP die lasted very much more than 500 coins. And while the die for bullion silver Eagles probably far outlast those used for numismatic products, last year an average of well over 100,000 bullion silver Eagles were struck every single day so quite a few die sets were being retired daily. Early and late die state coins were being struck many times each and every day.

  134. TomP says

    Back in 2008 I bought a coin & die set of the Hawaii quarter for my grandson. The coin was suppose to be the first acceptable strike of that particular die and listed a date struck of 10/18/08. The die of course was ‘scrubbed clean’ of any detail but the coin was spectacular. Now that is a First Strike. Wished the Mint offered similar sets now for other coins.

  135. Don says

    Clair,
    I also look forward to your posts. You have an elegant writing style, stay on topic, and seem to be quite insightful and informative in your narratives.

  136. Dave in CT. says

    DON, LOL. Yes, they weren’t on lunch break, you were, and I’m sorry to tell you that you were in the wrong building too. What you thought was the mint, was actually the Social Security building. Don, next time you leave work, make 2 lefts, instead of 2 rights. You will then see all those representatives with their clipboards yelling out,”First Strike, First Strike, First Strike” ! ! !”

  137. Gary says

    Yes Dave, i am insensitive, but its probably because we had another shot at a real unique offering with some upside potential and now basically all we are getting is another overminted product! At least the mint could have put a 1 per household limit on these with the 4 week window?

    In the future I will try and do better and sugar coat my opinions on things and be more in touch with my feelings for the sensitive guys out there. ; )

  138. VA Bob says

    TomP – not so long ago the Mint used to sell the spent dies with just an X carved in them. Bet those are hot now.

  139. stephen m. says

    You win on some, some you don’t. If it was easy for you to make money all the time on a fresh item everyone would be flipping. The mint does a great job as far as i’m concerned.

  140. Dave in CT. says

    Gary, As I said, you being dysfunctional is always showing and you just can’t help it, I understand more than you think. I am involved in a local ministry and can see very sad people like yourself, a mile or two away. SAD. How do you
    think I knew you were going to come back with the pathetic comment. You simply cannot get out of your own way. This is why I need extra people in my prayer group, to help pray for you, and I am being very serious. Lets read your follow up goofy remark.

  141. Gary says

    Dave , I already let it go…you seem to be having trouble letting go…i have made my point and everybody else gets it. Come down from the pulpit and hear what others have to say. I think i am allowed my opinions and can express my dissatisfaction with a mint product and the issues that caused it without getting threats of prayer! Dont waste your prayer groups time praying for me, stick with the real issues in the world. And i am pretty sure the 75th Anniversary Set mintage is not at the top of the list for “God.” But i guess we never really know??

  142. Don says

    Dave,
    Perhaps that was the Social Security Building I walked into instead of the Philly mint. When I walked in they asked me to take a seat and handed me a form to fill out. Thinking it was some type of survey form, I gladly complied. But, do you know what? I am now receiving social security checks once a month for the rest of my life. What great luck!

  143. Gary says

    @ T1 browserman
    We have passed the 100k and 150k…i guess we will just have to wait and see where we end up..i will be surprised if we dont pass the 300k?
    Just my opinion.

  144. jeff in tex says

    This set will become a sleeper. Selling less than 230,998 with silver dropping and all the bad news about the euro. Our own economy is stale. This set is not for investers but, thee collecter. Plus with the Mints new shipping date for newer orders. This is along time for it to ship, people in this range may get a notice. Asking a final buy or not before Aug. 27th that way there would be less for the Mint to have on hand.

  145. Bill says

    Units ordered today, 4,522. If orders continue at the same pace, 07/05 total accumulated orders will be 197,267; if orders continue at today’s pace, but if orders the last 2 days total 100,000, then the 07/05 total accumulated orders will be 292,745. Those are 2 big ifs. Hoping the total stays well under 250,000 and certainly not over that, but, I think coin dealers are what has caused the increase in sales recently and will more than likely continue with the last 2 days being significantly higher. All speculation; just hoping the total mintage is not too high!

  146. RLP says

    @Blackbeard

    Perhaps as early as Aug 1-2 with UPS 2 Day Air, or Aug 7-8 UPS truck if considering only transit times
    Lots of variables in play.
    Expected shipping Date (7/27/12) actually holds.
    Prepackaging/labeling is done before 7/27
    Distance between origin and destination points.
    Local UPS distribution conditions
    Even unforeseen weather and environmental conditions along the routes. (i.e. like the wildfires in CO or a hurricane scenario like Debbie in FL).

  147. KEITHSTER says

    You know the MINT I expect an earlier shipping date on the fist wave of orders. To try to stop some of the cancellations and spread out shipping after that with no waiting then till all are gone. 234,567

  148. says

    @Jeff…when you say “people in this range may get a notice”….what kind of notice are you referring to? Thanks

    Looking at the most recent mint sells report, it shows the SF set @ 21,101, but also the regular 2012-W proof @ 18,696(bringing it’s YTD total to 456,451) . I still don’t understand why some think $60 for a regular proof is fine, but $90 for a raw reverse proof is priced too high.

    It will be interesting to see how sells for the SF set go these last few days.

  149. jeff in tex says

    @ Steve What I mean is that the Mint might E-mail each order that was placed after 145,000 units asking the customer last time to buy or not sometime in August. This way it can be made to order.

  150. alvaro says

    I dont think flippers will buy anymore, with the new shipping date people will have forgot about this set by 9/28/12. who are they gonna sell too. This is basically the mint saying dont botter in ordering anymore we only intended to sell 150k.

  151. alvaro says

    And if you order now you probably gonna get a reject return from the first wave of 7/27. Its too late to order now from the mint youre better off getting a certified 69 at least it wont be rejects with scratches etc.

  152. guama says

    It doesn’t appear to bother some with the shipping date change. Still 4,500 orders between monday and tuesday. Should be an interesting week. With the holiday and a weekend…we will see. Let’s hope this is a sleeper and we will all have a good story to tell our grandchildren:)

  153. Clair Hardesty says

    My set ordered on the 23rd has changed from the 9/28 date it was originally given to 7/27 like my two set order from the 7th. This just happened sometime overnight.

  154. Bill says

    Claire, I wonder if that means there’s been enough cancellations to move your 06/23 order ship date from 09/28 to 07/27. What’s your thought? Thanks

  155. Brad says

    It’s all the fault of that @#%& catalog! The weekend total was still small, because the only orders that can be placed then are via the internet. Now that we’re back in the weekdays, the phone lines are lit up by catalog recipients, most of whom probably don’t use the website and probably didn’t even KNOW the set existed. I can’t fault the Mint for trying to sell their own product, but sales could have been SO much lower if not for that lousy catalog!

  156. Samuel says

    Bill, if there is a lot of cancellation, should the mint adjust the counter as well?

  157. Bill says

    Total units ordered today, 6,012; increasing each day. If sales continue at today’s pace, toal units ordered should reach 210,677 by 07/05, but if total units ordered the last 2 days total 100,000, 07/05 accumulated units ordered should reach 304,665.

  158. Bill says

    Samuel, I would think so, that cancellations should be included in the counter. so I just can’t rationalize what would be the reason for adjusting Claire’s 06/23 ship date from 09/28 to 07/27 unless it’s the Mint’s anticipation of cancellation and that they do indeed follow the FIFO method for their ship dates, which I think they should follow and that they do follow. Just not certain!

  159. Gary says

    The secret must be out! And i just got my catalog yesterday!
    There is probably some money to made for the big boys who send them off and get them graded no matter if the mintage is high. I think we will see some huge bump in numbers over the last few days! But even with a 500k mintage it will be the 3rd lowest reverse proof eagle and tied for 7th as the lowest proof silver eagle. And i believe if the mintage hits the 300k, i think we would then have the lowest regular proof silver eagle ever minted, with the exception of the 1995 W. Correct me if my numbers are wrong.

  160. RLP says

    Since the Mint chose not to detail how the counter works or when and what the “all active sales channels” data consists of the “counter” remains no more than juts a number. Until an audited volume is published it is the only indicator available. Whether pro or con concerning the “counter” it surely has stirred an interest for many regardless of its ultimate impact. Mintage numbers have always been a key to coin values but only as an after the fact count vs. perhaps a near real time measurement. Likewise, time and events will undermine the initial mintage number as has happened to all precious metal based coinage.

  161. guama says

    I was surprised to see the number jump up 6k. If the number is below 250k..the final number will be through the roof.

  162. TomP says

    I am not sure, but didn’t the regular weekly sales figures on Tuesday (which reflected Monday’s figure) match the total for the silver 2 coin set counter on Monday. If it did and the weekly sales totals count cancellations, then the counter would also include cancellations Unless no cancels for the week, of course.

    The summer catalog’s mailings are being stretched out over time (received mine yesterday), so this may prove an accumulative effect as more customers are motivated by the catalog. A wild card would be if some customers mail-in their order from the catalog. Since this is the first published notice of the 5 ounce ATB-Ps, I wonder if they will have a noticeable sales increase (though the ATB-Ps don’t have the end date urgency).

  163. T1 Browserman says

    The mint is NOT a non profit organization. The more the merrier but as Gary notes and as I noted this SET will still ultimately be low mintage compared to the millions of bullion minted. The only proof eagle ever to top 1 million was the ingaurual issue 1986. The 10th anniversary 95 W silver eagle was sold in conjunction with the gold eagle’s 1 oz & fractionals; a set I often see on ebay and can only dream about owning in a raw state, NOT SLABBED.

    Half of the current amount (~162k) was ordered on DAY 1….NOT EVEN 85K ordered between June 8-26 (19 days) and with spot still under $30 many may back off or cancel for that matter but the only other saving grace to this offering is that there is no bullion version ONLY a collector version. That’s a big plus in its own right. Even unslabbed versions will draw a decent premium in the years to come IMO.

  164. RLP says

    Depending on how one counts the 2006W, i.e. including the anniversary set coins or omitting them the 2006W number hit a total 1.09 million of which about 249 thousand were used to populate the anniversary set.

  165. Dan says

    Seems like it would be a good idea for the mint to explain how the counter works, but more importantly a counter on everything they sell. I know that in certain places they have kiosks so I don’t know how the counter would work there.

  166. T1 Browserman says

    RLP
    Seems the mint knew what it was doing for the 10th & 20th.

    Also seems, to me anyway, the 25th was a spur of the moment decision with the surprise announcement in August ’11 by the deputy director with its ‘fixed’ low mintage yet high ‘fixed’ household allowance. BTW where were the 5th or 15th anniversaries ? Will there be a 35th ? We know there’ll be a 30th. Who knows what’s up their sleeves ?

    Also seems like the 2011 would be over 1 million IF the 100 thousand used for the anniversary is to be included. Now the website http://silvereagleguide.com/ has no asterisk next to 2011 just yet but in perspective 2006 & 2011 are over the million mark (anniversary help) with 1986 being the only solo act to achieve this rank (perhaps because no ‘max’ limits were in place when these coins came to market for the first few years).

    The question for 2012 will be : do we include ‘S’ and ‘W’ in the proof count ?

  167. alvaro says

    200k when the counter reads 2 days left. then an additional 80000 in the last 2 days of sale. total will be around 280,000.

  168. Bill says

    Alvaro, I think your estimate is just as good as anybody’s. I look at the accumulated total units ordered every day; just keeps increaasing; the final result may be greater than both of us has said; I hope not, but again, C’est la vie.

  169. RLP says

    T1 Browserman.

    Don’t believe we should combine coins with different mint marks when striving to ascertain coin populations.

    Simply have given up on trying to figure out what the Mint might do next. Seems the primary motivation recently has turned to “making money” for profit. This is mostly apparent as more and more coins are only available from them, most with sizable markup over face value (i.e. the new “S” quarters or even more notable the 2009 Lincoln roll sets). Perhaps they need the premium to pay for the storage costs for excess Dollar coins produced via the congressional mandates.

    To bad we are reverting the same conditions shrunk the number of collectors following cessation of silver coinage (1964). Previous to then collectors could fill many of the holes in their “Whitman albums” by inspecting what they received in change. Following ’64, the model gravitated much more to ‘buying” your collection. The Hunt brothers run at cornering the silver market in ’79-80 finished off the casual and new collectors by removing most remaining silver from circulation.

    The Statehood Quarters Series was credited with renewing the hobby. Why, in my opinion because once again it was possible to gather an entire set from circulating coins at the price of face value. Filling empty holes is a thing collectors can’t resist, but can’t always afford either.

  170. Bill says

    RLP, The US Mint may’ve renewed the hobby when they introduced the statehood quarters which again allowed those who wanted to collect, to do so from circulating coins at face value; I agree 100%, but, the Mint later nixed it for collectors by discontinuance of releasing Sacagawea dollars for circulation and now the Presidential dollars.

  171. alvaro says

    7 days left. The cout will probably reach 170k today at 3pm et. What is it taking too long for the mint to start shipping this are they waiting for the sale day to expire I dont know why. I remember they ship my 25 th anniversary under 3 Weeks after ordering. This set has pass that time frame already. I hope theyre not waiting another week to start shipping the first orders why are they waiting for the sale to be over, just ship the orders already unless they dont even have them yet. Mint you dont need to see the final sales numbers to start shipping them weird lol.

  172. alvaro says

    Moderncoinmart still has the ngc 70 set on preorder for $229. But Chattanooga coins has increase the price from $259 they had previously to $ 289 maybe because of the new ship date on new orders of 9/28/12.

  173. alvaro says

    Eh mint news blog I think we need a new post by the name of ( final week of sale) after todays mintage update at 3pm et. This post is too long already with 200+ post.

  174. KEITHSTER says

    The Statehood quarters may have been a boom for the hobby but also a bust. Too many made too easy to get turned us into roll collectors good idea bad mintages. Years down the road people know they paid to much for the mint rolls and those that got them for face. Well by now know that they are pretty much worth well face with a little less buying power.It’s all in how you sell them but that’s another story.I’m sure it turned a lot of people off of coin collecting Now enter the Presidential dollars same story different ending.I was at the bank yesterday looking for some unc, quarters seems they have the new dollars yup @ $1.49 each seems too many customer complaints had to buy them from a dealer. So I told her my dealers name US MINT so maybe they will have to open little coin shops in all the banks so we don’t have to bail them out again.Now the ATB.’s different story from the getgo nobody can find them nobody get them have not seen but one or two. What they’re out there I got as many I could at face except the first could not get that one.Hey lower mintage unc last of the clad what’s not to love about unc. quarters now. Oh ya I also hoard nickel every chance I get. Anybody know how many steel nickels in a ton.?

  175. KEITHSTER says

    Sorry got a little off the subject there ya they do need the final number ordered. Before they ship they know how to play the game how many will try to cancell if the numbers to high.About how many won’t have the corect money in the bank at the time needed when to ship early when to ship later how many sets will get cherry picked and returned how many times they have to send those sets out till someone keeps them and how long to extend the later shipping till all are gone. So as to not over produce I’m sure their number crunchers will be fast at work when the last order is in.I also think the larger orders of late is not from the catalogers but is from us. No one want’s to be the last dog out they only end up with the S CR APS for the above reasons.

  176. alvaro says

    is the mint gonna remove the odometer of sales once the sale ends at 7/5 at 5pm et. maybe we wont know the final mintage for awhile. they migth not update the sales from 7/5 Because the sell will be over. So maybe there wont be a counter update on 7/6 at 3pm with the final mintage. So if the counter reads like 200k on 7/4 with no update on 7/6 from 7/5 sales. What will be a safe bet to add on to the final mintage. I think add 40k from 7/5 sales to make it 240k.

  177. J A says

    Looks like my initial estimate of 160k got blown over today with 7 days to go!

    My new estimate is 192k

  178. Don says

    Why are so many posters so concerned about mintage figures and how this will effect the value of the S.F. set? Just pick yourself up a couple sets and enjoy the two stand- alone proofs in their original government packaging.

  179. KEITHSTER says

    Coin collecting has always been about the numbers as long as I can remember.#’s made #’s left # of days left to order#of grade # of coins in that # grade you get the point.As for estimate’s atleast on my part was on a respondence to a should be a bet as to the final # with out going over on the counter on the last day.I’m sure most here have already ordered that set or two they’re going to keep. It seems it’s the flippers and investors who are the nervous nellie’s in this made to order time limit ASE. But then thats part or full time job? Kind of like a bunch of troll’s not wanting any one to cross they’re # bridge.

  180. ED says

    with obuma healthcare bill approved……. i cant stand anything comming from our current fed government !! YOU ARE NO LONGER FREE !!!

  181. Bill says

    Hey Ed! Amen, Amen, & Amen! All our individual liberties have gone and are going out the window!!! The government is to protect our liberties, instead, liberals are exponentially taking them away as time goes on!!! It’s so hard to see an end to it! Hope everybody wakes up before it’s too late!!!!

  182. Brandon says

    @Ed and Bill. You both are absolutely correct! Don’t stop saying it publicly either. Tell all your friends about the path this country is headed down and encourage everyone to vote against socialism… Glad to hear some folks on here with a backbone unlike other… I won’t name names 😉

  183. guama says

    They wont ship our orders until after the final bell. Also, they are waiting untithe 30 day rule for ebay. I really don’t care about the numbers either. But I do think that the mint will take down the odometer on the last day and we wont know the final number until Michael tells us later.

  184. alvaro says

    moderncoinmart still has the set in ngc or pcgs in 70 for pre order for $229 funny how they stated that the final price could be lower. wow really mcm. You can lock in the price at Chattanooga coins with a $50 deposit. But I have never done bussiness with them are they legit.

  185. Bill says

    Alvaro, do you know whether ModernCoinMart and Chattanooga Coins are offering the set in NGC or PCGS 70 along with the OGP? If not they’re making money on the OGP elsewhere. Many collectors, including myself, likes to have the OGP as well!

  186. Clair Hardesty says

    This set’s shipping is not much different than the 2006 set. I ordered that set on August 31 (which was day one, I think) and it shipped on October 30, almost nine weeks later. The original expected ship date was December 8. Of course, back then things weren’t as snappy as they are now. I ordered two canvas coin bags on December 16, which were listed as in stock when I placed the order and they shipped them out on February 9. All that said, I like the mint’s decision to wait to ship any sets until after sales conclude. I just think it makes sense for a product offered in this manner.

  187. Bill says

    Clair, if a company made widgets and were going to offer a new widget, but only for 28 days and produce only that amount ordered, that company received orders or 85,000 widgets on the 1st day and at the end of 42 days they had orders totalling 142,000, the company wouldn’t be in business very long, if that company waited until all orders were in before they shipped the 1st order etc, etc. Not trying to be argumentative, just don’t understand why that makes sense; is there something I’m missing? Please enlighten me. Thank you!

  188. Shutter says

    the company wouldn’t be in business very long

    Would that be because of competition?

    Personally, I don’t mind if they ship later. I just wish they were a bit more accurate with their promised ship date. Here you are expecting shipment around 7/27-7/30, and on 7/16 you get an email saying it just shipped and it’ll be delivered on 7/18. Makes it harder to plan.

  189. RLP says

    The whole TPG labeling schemes (FS & ER non-sense) could go up in flames if all or the bulk of these sets ship within just few days. The grading services would then have to stick to their main purpose of providing authentication and condition state. Maybe there is a silver lining hidden within the Mints position…

  190. KEITHSTER says

    Because if they sent out the first 85,000 widgets and those guy’s just picked out the perfect widgets and sent the rest back ‘then sold those on the black market to those who only wanted one perfect widget making the rest of the 142,000 cancell most of they’re orders they would not keep up the business for very long either.

  191. Shutter says

    The whole TPG labeling schemes (FS & ER non-sense) could go up in flames if all or the bulk of these sets ship within just few days.

    Don’t think that will happen. 25th anniversary set started shipping on 11/7/12 and didn’t complete until late December or early January. With NGC, roughly 10% got the 25th Anniversary Set, but not Early Releases. There were a total of 100K sets across 35K orders (I think, but could be wrong). This set will have lot’s more, and some of the orders will be pretty big. It may take PBGS and the Mint 2-3 months to complete all the shipments, even if all the coins are minted and packed in those wooden boxes.

  192. Dan says

    By waiting until the window is closed before shipping, the mint aims to curb price gouging.

  193. alvaro says

    Any guess how much that crazy guy mike mezack from hsn will charge for anacs 70 first day of issue lol. remember with the 25th anniv set. he was asking for $2999 in anacs and everybody else had the set for $1500 in ngc or pcgs .why will any one pay double for anacs lol. I guess somebody did. Ouhh. Did those people that bought from hsn know that they got rip off?

  194. alvaro says

    Im guessing mike mezack will have the set for $600 and everybody else will have it for $300 in 70. And ngc/pcgs not anacs.

  195. alvaro says

    Lol im gonna order 1000 sets if possible on the last day to increase the mintage and then cancel the order the next day so that dealers see the high mintage and price the ngc 70 set ship like $219 lol. Everybody do this to get ship 70 sets. Will that be funny when the mint issues the final mintage, dealers will be like wt## what happend. Gotha dealers. Can you even order that many sets in one order? The other day I was playing around with the mint ordering page and I did type 1000 sets and got to the last step, but didnt hit the place order button too scare lol. What will haved happened. Can I get sue by the mint for doing that. Cause it will be obvious that Iwas just playing with them.

  196. alvaro says

    I meant cheap not ship lol sorry. Everyone order lots of sets on the last days to increase the mintage so we get cheap 70 sets from dealers thinking too high mintage then everyone cancel their multiple orders by the time the mint issues final mintage numbers the dealers will had sold 70 sets for cheap. thats a way to get back at dealers. That will be awesome. dealers will be pissed.

  197. Piotr says

    How long does it take for orders to go from “in process” to “in stock and reserved”? On average of course.
    Thanks.

  198. Brad says

    Regarding Mint orders, there’s always been a “shopping cart limit” of 99 of any one particular item. I just tried to put 1000 in the cart, and it won’t even allow four figures to be typed in. I typed in 999 and tried to add them to the cart, but the product page popped back up with a message at the top that said “Order total cannot exceed $49,999.99.” I tried adding 199 sets, but a message popped up at the top that said “You have exceeded the shopping cart limit for this product. Please reduce your quantity.”

    So, it appears that the most you can order at one time is 99 sets.

  199. Shutter says

    So, it appears that the most you can order at one time is 99 sets.
    Unless you’re a dealers and qualified for bulk purchase program. But then you won’t be ordering from the website.

  200. Brad says

    Right, I forgot about the dealers buying in bulk. Average Joes can only order 99 sets per order on the website.

  201. Shutter says

    Average Joes can only order 99 sets per order on the website.

    Average Joe won’t be buying 99 sets either, because he doesn’t have $15K in available credit on his weeza.

  202. Clair Hardesty says

    Even though it does bother me sometimes, the mint has a long history of offering items for sale that are not ready to ship (and won’t be ready for quite some time). This set and the 2011 set are only recent examples of a long trend, not a new phenomenon.

  203. Clair Hardesty says

    This set does not appear to be eligible for the bulk purchase program. It may be, but I could not find anything that says it is. Not all numismatic products are eligible for bulk purchase. The minimum order (for qualified bulk purchasers) is $5000 and they get a net 4% discount (5% basic discount + 1% shipping charge). The info does say “American Eagle Gold and Silver Proof and Uncirculated Coins” but does not mention sets so these may or may not qualify. Bulk purchasers have to be pre-qualified so you can’t just join the program when a set like this goes on sale, it takes time for the mint to check you out. You have to prove that you are a licensed coin dealer of some sort. A 4% discount is not huge, just enough to allow dealers to sell at the mint price and eek out a small profit. If this set is on the bulk buy list, they are only getting a $6 discount. Of course that is $6000 on a 1000 set order, but you are still paying $143,950 for the coins. The discount is just enough to let the big dealers throw away the mint packaging without feeling like they paid for it.

  204. Clair Hardesty says

    I should also note that even bulk buyers cannot order before an item officially goes on sale, and their huge orders get in the same shipping queue as our onesey-twosey orders. They have to have a big credit card or wire the money when the mint asks for it. There are other ways for them to pay but they may not all apply to limited time items like this one.

  205. Bill says

    “Because if they sent out the first 85,000 widgets and those guy’s just picked out the perfect widgets and sent the rest back ‘then sold those on the black market to those who only wanted one perfect widget making the rest of the 142,000 cancell most of they’re orders they would not keep up the business for very long either.”

    Keithster, would’ve never foreseen in a million years that the US Mint’s sales and returns allowance would or even could be as high as you’ve suggested in your above scenario. I stand corrected, it’s clear now; maybe the Mint should add another month to their ship dates to double insure their reason for the delayed shipping.

    I would just like to get my order as soon as possible and understand if the Mint has it’s reason for the delayed shipping.

    Thank you

  206. Shutter says

    This set does not appear to be eligible for the bulk purchase program. It may be, but I could not find anything that says it is.

    In the past, the ASE sets weren’t eligible, but that could have been a function of “household ” limits.

    The discount is just enough to let the big dealers throw away the mint packaging without feeling like they paid for it.

    I think the big dealers would be foolish to just throw away packaging. MCM is selling 2006 ASE set OGP for $15 and 2011 set for $20. Not a lot, but every penny counts. Paradise Mint is selling graded HR Kookaburra with an option to include OGP for $8.

    Most of US Mint’s packaging is drab and unimaginative, but special one-of-a-kind items are worth hanging onto and selling.

  207. Clair Hardesty says

    I agree on the packaging. Sets like this one have at least some modest value to their packaging. Many dealers are still selling packaging for the 2009 UHRDE, both as delivered by the mint and modified to accept a slabbed coin.$15 seems a little high for the 2006 packaging, it is only fancy plastic. The 2011 stuff is at least hardwood, even if painted.

  208. KEITHSTER says

    O I’m sure they will have later dates to account for returns but I thought we were talking widgits and if you are the only company selling those widgits you can ship them any time you like and still stay in the business.

  209. Shutter says

    $15 seems a little high for the 2006 packaging
    Hey, I did not set that price. And if you think that’s high, they are asking $13 for most of 5oz ATB coins. If US Mint put in at least a nickel’s worth of effort into those COA and included some history and facts about the parks, then I could see some value. However, as they are, I’d have no interest in them. Still, they must have people buying them from time to time.

  210. alvaro says

    Yes yes yes I just order my ngc 70 set for $229 with free shipping and it includes the OGP. The price is locked since you can order it already. Now my dilemma is should I cancel my order with the mint cause I dont needed in OGP now that I got it cheap certified. I think ill hold on to the mints order in case something goes wrong with mcm . They are legit ive never had any problems with them.

  211. alvaro says

    MCM and the rest of the big dealers just screw the average Joe trying to flip, cause they are selling the set 70 for the price of certification, so for the average joe it aint worth there time. Big dealers only pay like $5 for certification not $30+ a regular person pays thats why they can go that low and hard for regular persons to get a 70 set for cheaper. why bother I bet many flippers gonna cancel their extra orders with the mint cause it aint gonna work for regular people to flip only for big dealers that pay $5 for certification.

  212. J says

    I disagree, I think MCM is actually offering most people a cheaper way to buy NGC 70 sets then if you tried to make them yourself. Just buy the 70s from MCM and cancel your mint order. This way you get your 70s cheaper and you can cancel your order from the mint, thereby reducing the overall mintage.It is a win win in my mind. And if you want to flip, just order 15 sets from MCM. Remember that you are saving shipping to and from NGC as well as their invoice fee which I think is something like $5 or $8 regardless of how many sets you order. That said, with the mintage spike we have been seeing lately, I dont think these are going to be great flips anyway.

  213. Gary says

    People should just be patient. These NGC 70 sets will be available for under $180 shortly. I doubt there will be many if any canceled orders! Hopefully the mintage will keep bumping up strong in these last few days that way we can pick up some OGP sets for less than the US Mint is selling them now! I would say in about 6 months we should be able to add more of these sets to our collections for around $110 to $120 maybe even a little less!

  214. jm says

    I do not work for MCM. I wish I owned the company, but I don’t. I am really just talking about the value. If anyone finds a lower price on a 70 set, obviously just buy from them and then post it here so those who are interested know where to get them.

  215. J says

    And another thing. In my opinion, no one should ever do anything just because it was written on a blog. Do your own research and make your own decisions. Some of us here are just passing time while our wife and kids are at costco.

  216. Bill says

    I’ve made several purchases from MCM; always been satisfied! Just a collector/investor and have no connection to MCM. The Investor part of me is just to leave the kids something that has grown in value!

  217. stephen m. says

    Gary…….I don’t think so. $110 to $120 SF 2 piece sets? NGC70 sets for $180? I have an opinion also and it’s that the sets will never be at or below the mints current selling price after next Thursday and may not be any lower than $229 on NGC PF70 sets. No, i don’t work for MCM.

  218. Gary says

    @stephen m.
    I respect your opinion.
    I just think the market will be flooded with these for a while and prices will drop on both graded and OGP
    I dont work for MCM either but i will admit that guy has a good thing going!!

  219. alvaro says

    Has anyone here order the 70 set from mcm yet or planning on buying a 70 set or just ogp. $225 at mintproducts for a 70.

  220. alvaro says

    I bet the counter will reach 200k this weekend. Will see Monday at 3pm et. It might pass 250k in the 3 days left after Mondays update count.

  221. stephen m. says

    Gary, i hope your right. I’ll pick up a second set. I really don’t know what will happen. It certainly has been better than any movie i’ve seen lately so far. Looks like i’ll be way off on my projected 634,000 sets sold by the mint but it’s a very interesting offering from the mint with the counter and graded sets being offered by MCM.

  222. ClevelandRocks says

    Isn’t JM the initials of the owner of Moderncoinmart?
    $229 seems ok for $55 of silver in this situation if you want one graded set for yourself BUT if mintage ends up over the magic # of 250k (it certainly looks like it may), interest may fade for the hightest mintage rev. silver proof (06,11,12 varieties) SO don’t plan on makin anything flipping them (you may lose $ from fees, etc.) BUT big deal if you lose say $40 on one set if you plan on keeping it for yourself.

  223. Shutter says

    SO don’t plan on makin anything flipping them

    One shouldn’t expect much profit on flipping any mint to demand coin. Still with only 4 weeks window for sales, it will be among smaller mintages in ASE proof context. So in the long run, it will still be a winner. You just have to hold it for a few years.

    One thought occurs to me though. Everyone seems to assume that this set will follow grade distribution of most recent coins, and there will be lots and lots of PF70 coins. But is there is guaranty of that? This year’s Infantry proof had so far less than 20% grade PF70. That’s compared with almost 70% for 2012 W ASE proof. MCM may be taking a serious risk promising to sell them for $229 before the first coin is graded.

  224. ClevelandRocks says

    @Shutter: usually your posts are well thought out except consider, Infanty proof is a unique design (not a great one at that), with new dies, etc.
    The 2 coin ASE proof/rev proof has been done exectly the same (sin S mint mark) SO I will gaurantee (never posted this word before) PF70s will be the RULE (not the exception) to these. The biggest thing these coins will do for flippers/ premiums will be making the 2011s even more valuable with well under 50% the mintage of the 2012s. Even now the 1999 silver proofs sell for big premiums over the 2000s (selling for basically melt) and the 1999s only had 20% less mintage than the 2000s.

  225. ED says

    I am still wondering what the final mintages will be for the 9/11 medals. This might be intresting if they dont sell out.

  226. Shutter says

    ClevelandRocks,

    Obviously John Maben agrees with you. However it is only since 2006 that PF70 began to exceed PF69 among silver eagles. Interestingly, 2006 regular issue proof coins did much better than either from the 2006 set.

    I don’t think uniqueness of the design is important. As Clair had pointed out, they go through oodles of dies for these coins. A lot of it has to do with how the coins are handled, and SF Mint’s record with recent proofs (regular issues) is not consistent to draw conclusions.

  227. Shutter says

    I am still wondering what the final mintages will be for the 9/11 medals. This might be intresting if they dont sell out.

    If either of these sells out, I will eat OGP from one of them. They’ve been on sale for almost a year now and sold a little more than 8% of authorized maximum. If you want to know their prospects, consider that MCM is currently selling the pair in PF69 for $100. That’s 25% bellow what the mint is asking for raw.

  228. ED says

    Thats not good newsShutter, to make it worse, I pre-ordered mine and recieved it 9/13.

  229. Shutter says

    ED,

    That’s not really news. Sometimes I get the feeling that the Mint’s management is informing the Congress that there is no way for them to sell as many as those dunces insist on authorizing. It’s hard to remember the last time the Mint sold 2,000,000 of any collector item.

  230. says

    You’re right, I didn’t look at it that closely. Look like the 69’s are out of stock too. I wonder what’s up with that? Repricing maybe?

  231. ClevelandRocks says

    Out of stock? Panic! Kidding…..see my 6:48 am post today.

    They may be trying to create hype, but at 250+k final mintage, they will be nice items, but certainly not ever very big premiums as highest mintage types of the three sets released since “06 (IMHO). The 2011 AGE-W had less than 1/20th of this and only has small premiums SO chill…

  232. Shutter says

    Repricing maybe?

    Doubt it. If this were me, I wouldn’t have an open ended volume for pre-orders either. For example, If I ordered 1,000 sets, I’m bound to get 200 each PF70 and PF69. That’s if Cleveland is right or wrong, doesn’t matter. Doesn’t matter. It’s a way of mitigating risk and getting a jump on flippers at the same time. In this situation I would pre-sell 400 sets and release the rest after they come back from grading. Based on his order volume he can also have a better idea of what percentage to allocate to each label variation.

  233. alvaro says

    Mcm already charge my C.C I hope they deliver if not oh well ill just dispute the charge as fraud thats the good think of paying with a C.C instead of check or bank account.

  234. alvaro says

    Im guessing todays counter update at 3pm will be pass 200k. Probably another 80k in the last 3 days to make it 280k final mintage. todays number is gonna be big for sales from Friday, Saturday,Sunday.

  235. Piotr says

    Alvaro
    MCM is just going to buy another set today, increasing their odds of a good set.

  236. J A says

    175, 588 with 3 days to go. Can 25k SF sets be ordered in 3 days? I have my doubts, this would place the final mintage just below 200k

    I’m going to keep my second estimate of 192k in place and just hope for the best

  237. Brad says

    Two local coin dealers that I talked to yesterday (in Southern Illinois) said they have not ordered a single set. Both of them cited the Mint’s issue price as being too high. They both seem to think that they’ll be able to get sets later on the aftermarket for less than the Mint’s issue price. I don’t know about that. It seems like someone would have to be awfully strapped for cash to sell these sets for less than what they paid for them!

    Today’s update might not be as high as the past few days (on a per day basis), since it seems the weekdays have posted higher numbers. I don’t think anyone is available to take phone orders on the weekend, are they? I’ve never tried to call on a weekend. It seems the recent uptick was probably due to catalog recipients phoning in orders. Online orders had gotten pretty slow before that catalog started showing up in people’s mailboxes! Most of the people who ordered from the catalog probably weren’t even aware the set existed.

  238. Shutter says

    They both seem to think that they’ll be able to get sets later on the aftermarket for less than the Mint’s issue price.

    I remember talking to one dealer last year, who was saying the same thing about 25 Anniversary Set. I also remember some posters in online forums saying that they were going to wait a week to see how the sales shape up.

    I don’t know about that. It seems like someone would have to be awfully strapped for cash to sell these sets for less than what they paid for them!

    Probably not a collector who ordered 1-2 sets. Besides, such a person probably has other stuff to sell when strapped for cash. However, a would be flipper who invested a few thousand may be more motivated to sell if the prices crater.

  239. says

    I just an email from MCM which says:

    “We took orders for the NGC San Francisco 2 Coin Anniversary Sets from Friday through mid-day Sunday and sold out of our initial supply in part due to the very low special price. We are hoping to have more product to sell later today at the now current, higher market price. Most likely, those will again sell out quickly.

    PRICES WILL BE SUBJECT TO CHANGE BASED ON SUPPLY AND DEMAND. WE ARE RE-EVALUATING PRICES AND QUANTITY LIMITS AT LEAST TWICE DAILY.”

  240. Shutter says

    Maybe I was wrong. At least in part. MCM now says that they will have more sets to order later today at a higher price. $259.

  241. ED says

    You guys are very informative with MCM coins website !! Thanks for your input !!! 🙂

  242. Brad says

    Son of a @#$%*! This one might not stay under 250K after all. That @#$* catalog!

  243. Dan says

    So long term the best coins to still collect are very old coins and those are the ones that will probably appreciate the most vs. modern coins.

  244. junior says

    I have been following this site since the 25th ASE was anounced last year. A quick thought: Will the US Mint update the counter @ 5 PM on 7/4? It is a holiday and I’m curious if will be treated as a weekend (day).

  245. ED says

    Excellent question junior !!!! But you can cancel your order if you choose too, I can still cancel my order on the Mints site that was placed the 1st day.I think the key is to just place your order before 7/5@ 5pm.

  246. Bill says

    Junior, the Mint updates the counter at approximately 3:00PM Eastern; they won’t update, however, on the 4th due to being a holiday.

  247. guama says

    I asked a couple of dealers at the baltimore show if they we’re going to buy any sets. They all said no. So, if there was any lesson to be learned…..Since I easing the area, I went to the mints store. They will be open on the 4th for business.

  248. ED says

    guama you fell for that old trick ?? Dealers will always say they wont buy sets that are still being sold to the public. I took 2 2006 20th silver sets to 2007 Baltimore show asked a dealer if he was intrested, he said no, asked if he knew someone that was he said yes and directed me to him, fliped for $300 a set. Bottom line ,made $200 and still own the other 2 sets. Always ask a question that benifits you not the coin dealer. 🙂

  249. Bill says

    Really interested in seeing what these last 2 days of sales are going to be! I initially thought these last 2 days might increase the tally by 100M; that still might be true! It seems many dealers have increased their prices and/or suspended ordering and requested to check back later for availability dates. I assume that means they’re going to order more and need to determine their delivery dates. I’m affraid these last 2 days are going to reveal a huge jump in sales; so much for hoping total mintage stays below 250M!

  250. Bill B says

    I placed my order for several sets the first day they were offered. And decided if they don’t go much above 250,000 the day before the end of the offering, I’d buy several more!
    Today, July 4th. I checked the orders to date, and it was 217,351, has not been updated since yesterday! At this rate they will go over the 20th anniversary eagles of 248,875. I was hoping they would push them out of 3rd place, but I don’t think they will! I will up the count today of several sets today! Happy 4th everyone!!!!

  251. Bill says

    Gary, yes, if it’s not, it’s awfully close! It’s so close I’d hate to have to live on the difference! The working are forced to pay into it, so at least, it’s not free, and the working coul’ve done better if they had been required to invest.

  252. Bill B says

    The Mint updated the counter today July 4th! It is now 245,131. It might hit 300,000 by the time it ends tomorrow! I hope it’s under 300,000.

  253. Bill B says

    In answer to auxmike on June 22, 2012

    “The mint did a great job on the 2012 Summer catalog, I’ll say! Anybody here save them?”

    Yes, I do! I keep all my US Mint, catalogs, brochures, and post cards. I have them back to 1986, with the first year release of the gold and silver eagle proof coins.

  254. Bill says

    The Miint updated their counter at approximately 2:00Pm EST today, an hour early. Counter 250,738 with 3 hours of sales left. Will they show the counter tomorrow?

  255. Bill B says

    I just checked right at the end of the sale. The day counter is gone with a message saying “No Longer Available. Sale window closed as of July 5, 2012 at 5 pm. It also goes on and says “Total units ordered will be updated on Friday, July 6, 2012 by 3 p.m. (ET) to reflect the last day of the ordering window.”

  256. Bill B says

    I checked about 2:30 pm for the order count total added from yesterdays orders, The total count shows 251,302. That is only 564 more orders than the day before. That amazes me! That is not much more than the 20th Anniversary silver eagle set of 248,875. I know the final figures will change more or less, maybe less. But it isn’t even near 300,000.

  257. Bill says

    Bill B, I had purchased 5 sets from the Mint on the 1st day, 06/07, and another set last week from Modern Coin Mart. Had I purchased any more, my wife would’ve shot me; she compares my coin collecting and coin & bullion investing to that of our trips to Vegas. I usually carry the cash for gambling and on our last trip, she found me after roughly 5 hours of gambling asked for more money. I said, “you lost $200 already”; she said, “how much have you lost”; I said, “$2,000”; she said, “you say “already” after I had lost only $200, yet you’ve lost $2,000; I said, “but I know how to gamble”. That’s when her skepticism started! Ha! Ha! 42 years of marriage and no respect, I feel like Rodney Dangerfield.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *