San Francisco Two Coin Silver Eagle Set Priced at $149.95

According to a notice that will be published in the Federal Register tomorrow, the pricing for the United States Mint’s 2012 American Eagle San Francisco Two Coin Silver Proof Set will be $149.95.

Each set includes one 2012-S Proof Silver Eagle and one 2012-S Reverse Proof Silver Eagle, both struck at the San Francisco Mint. Based on information available, it seems that both of these coins will be unique to the special offering and not available elsewhere.

As previously announced, the sets will be minted to demand, however orders will only be accepted during a four week window from June 7, 2012 at 12:00 Noon ET to July 5, 2012 at 5:00 PM ET.

At first impression, the pricing for the special set seems high. However, by dissecting the prices of past offerings, the price doesn’t seem too far out of line.

The 2011 25th Anniversary Silver Eagle Set, which contained five coins (a proof, reverse proof, two uncirculated coins, and a bullion coin) was priced at $299.95. At the time of offering, the US Mint was selling individual proof coins at $58.95 each, individual uncirculated coins at $50.95 each, and an individual bullion coin would have been at least $34. Adding up these four coins ($58.95, $50.95, $50.95, and $34) yields $194.85, leaving $105.10 for the reverse proof coin and packaging.

The US Mint currently sells the individual “W” mint marked proof coin for $59.95, which leaves $90 for the reverse proof coin and packaging within the upcoming San Francisco Silver Eagle Set.

These numbers are not completely comparable and transferable due to different production volumes and differences in the price of silver, but roughly seem to support pricing for the upcoming set.

Beyond the pricing, the prospects for the two sets are also much different. While both contain two unique coins, last year’s offering was limited to a mintage of 100,000, which ultimately proved much too small given the demand. The current offering has an open ended mintage, which will basically be determined by collector demand. I will have a full post on the offering closer to the release date.

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Comments

  1. Nate says

    I actually think the set is priced pretty well.

    Maybe the reverse proof does cost more for the mint to make due to process, tools or lower production volumes. Even if the higher set cost is due to a higher markup rather than attributable to production costs, I’m still OK with it.

    This is supposed to be a ‘special’ set so maybe a higher price is OK. Many were worried that this set would sell many hundreds of thousands of units. The higher price keeps this affordable to add to the collection, but maybe it will also keep speculative sales down.

  2. says

    $150 is what should of been expected. The reverse proof is a special coin.

    Also, in 2006 the 20th Anniversary set was prices at $100. At that time the proof was priced at $28, the burnished unc. at $20…leaving $52 for the reverse proof (more than the proof and unc. combined….which at today’s prices are $106 combined)…so $90 for the reverse proof seems reasonable.

  3. Jon in CT says

    Presumably the Mint based its price for the set in part on yesterday’s noon London silver fixing, which was $27.68 (though it’s hard to guess what passes for the thought process at the Mint). That means the price of $149.95 is about 2.7 times the coins’ intrinsic value. That’d be fine for clad coins but seems quite steep for precious metal coins. I don’t see much room for flippers at this price.

  4. A&L Futures says

    Okay…

    2006 20th Anniversary set was $100 and it included three coins ($33 / coin)

    2011 25th Anniversary set was $300 and it included five coins ($60 / coin)

    2012 San Francisco set is $150 and it includes two coins ($75 / coin)

    Yes, before ya’ll beat me up…each set was housed in a beautiful display case, but are we really saying that it’s okay to pay these prices? I’m a collector and flipper, but it looks as though the U.S. Mint is starting to milk us similar to how the Royal Canadian Mint milks their customers. I know these will do well, but…come on already. SPOT as of 11:00 CST is $27.84 / oz.

    Any thoughts? (be nice)

  5. Brad says

    The higher price could be a blessing, though. In order for this set to retain some collectible value versus simply tracking bullion value, we really need the sales to stay at 250,000 sets or less. The 2006 20th Anniversary Set proves that sales at that level still allow for some nice returns. Sales of 300,000 sets might still allow some premium, but if we get much higher than that this will basically end up being a pretty bullion set in a fancy box. I would hate to see that happen.

    As long as this set is perceived as a “bad value”, sales might not go through the roof. Heck, here’s to hoping that silver drops a few dollars more, with no pricing adjustment made to the set!

  6. ABC says

    You also need to take into account the price of silver when the previous sets were released. I don’t remember/know the release dates for the previous sets, but in June 2006, silver was averaging around $11 and in June 2011, it was averaging around $36. Right now, it’s about $28.

  7. Drew says

    Priced a little higher than what I was hoping it would come out for, but I am still in for a few sets.

  8. stephen m. says

    The mint has me over a barrel because i need a set of these for my collection but i feel like i’m in the barrel if you know what i mean. Even with the pricing on the high end i would expect a high mintage of 634K.

  9. Jon in CT says

    ABC wrote on May 31, 2012 at 12:27 pm:
    You also need to take into account the price of silver when the previous sets were released. I don’t remember/know the release dates for the previous sets, but in June 2006, silver was averaging around $11 and in June 2011, it was averaging around $36. Right now, it’s about $28.

    I argue that you need to take into account the price of silver when the previous sets were PRICED. For example, the Mint filed its A25 price announcement with the Federal Register on 11/01/11 at 8:45 AM (see https://federalregister.gov/a/2011-28327 ). The noon London silver fixing the day before (i.e. on 10/31/11) was $34.24 per FTO). Thus, the A25 price of $299.95 was only 1.75 times the intrinsic value of the 5 coins at the time of pricing.

  10. Shutter says

    Royal Canadian Mint Bullion and Refinery Revenue…It fell because they charge too much for their products!

    RCM bullion sells for less than US Mint bullion. The stuff they charge too much for (numismatic products) more than doubled its revenue.

  11. Sam says

    I had expected a lower price, what with the promise that it would be based in part on the price of silver. Just the same, I will get at least on set. Curious to see what the presales on Ebay will look like in a week.

  12. Michael in Bama says

    I wonder if the mint will hold orders till the end to prevent returns of POOR QUALITY ITEMS?
    I was out of town when my SSB coins arrived and all 4 looked like they had been dropped on the floor, so I missed the chance to return them.

    At these prices, the 5oz proof dragon at $450 don’t look bad after all!

  13. posterhunter says

    All of the individual products like the other silver eagles also come with packaging so the cost of all that is added to those product prices already.

    Translated that means the price of this 2 coin set is outrageously high, I was expecting something around $115. This set was dreamed up by the mint to make money and they have priced it to do just that.

    This set at this price I expect will make the mint millions of dollars.

    BTW I came up with $115 by adding the price of a proof and the other W coin, $46 plus $60 plus $4 more for the extra packaging and $5 extra. Everything over that is easily profit for the mint, so that amounts to well over $40 PROFIT PER SET!

  14. Samuel says

    -they make extra to replace bad quality ones?
    -how about long term investment value?

  15. Wes says

    It may be a little high considering you can buy the 5 oz NP numismatic coin now for a lot less than a year ago..

  16. TomP says

    Since the Mint won’t begin shipping until at least several weeks after the end of the sales period, what chance is there that a price decrease would happen even if silver plunges? A price drop will cause everyone to easily cancel their order and reorder. I believe that once priced, the Mint will stick to it no matter what.

  17. Brad says

    TomP,

    Yes, you are most likely right about no price change. Since a price change would have to go through the Federal Register, there’s no time for that during the 4-week ordering window. The only way it would possibly work is if the Mint took number of days the product was suspended into account and extended the ordering window by that number of days once sales resumed. I don’t really see that happening, though.

    Keep in mind this product will undoubtedly show some sales number swings, similar to the DOF Set but on what will very likely be a larger scale. It’s extremely likely there will be a large number of orders placed in the first week by everyone who is willing to gamble the set will ultimately be a winner. If numbers later get too high to make those buyers feel comfortable, they will cancel and make the number drop. Products with long backorder periods invite this type of activity.

    Whatever the counter shows the day after the window closes will likely start to drop the very next day, by what could be a pretty large number. There will most certainly be a lot of orders placed on the last day “just in case.” Many of those could be cancelled soon after when those who gambled see the spike in sales from the last day and deem it to be too high.

    Let’s just hope when the dust settles and the smoke clears, there are only 250,000 sets or less.

  18. Zaz says

    This product is a pure money maker for the Mint and represents an effort to recapture that lost opportunity six months ago by seriously miscalculating the supply and demand factor of the A25 set, which as multiple commentators have said, still a hotly desired item today. The price tag is pretty much in line with the perceived “desirability” and artificiality of the product, much in line with the majority of the RCM’s offerings, as it does not celebrate any kind of anniversary, either of the coin or of the SF mint itself. I perceive it as a dilution of the 2006 and 2011 RPs, if everyone can get the special coin, then it makes the previously issued coins that much less special. Still, I’m in for a set, as I live in San Francisco, but I really doubt there will be a huge aftermarket demand for EG1 immediately after July 4th, when the ordering window closes.

  19. Jus-a-coin-luvr says

    I like AE’s a lot and plan to buy (2) sets. Price is a bit high, but not enough to prevent me from buying the product. I’m not a “flipper” and probably a poor Collector from any “investment” perspective. I just buy what I like and never sell anything. 🙂

  20. fosnock says

    So much for combining shipping, I may have to wait for the mintage\order levels to come in as I collect uncirculated not proof eagles. The mint really needs to get a marketing director. Why have all this hype about waiting until the last minute to base the price on silver’s spot price then charge a excruciatingly high price based on it. I must say their is no rime or reason at the mint.

  21. merryxmasmrscrooge says

    although these are great, I definitely want to see PALLADIUM eagles!!!
    They would be a good investment. According to USA.com 2 1/2 yrs ago…

    “The American Eagle Palladium Coin will contain one troy ounce of Palladium. Palladium was the best price performing metal in the world in 2010, according to the December 27, 2010 front page of the Wall Street Journal.” This will be the first time the US Mint has struck a coin in this precious metal, and will expand the precious metal offering of the Mint from three to four.

    “The American Eagle Palladium Coin will feature a high-relief likeness of Adolf Weinman’s Winged Liberty – first used on the Mercury Dime in 1916. The reverse will also use a Weinman design, the 1907 American Institute of Architects medal.

    http://www.usacoins.com/2012/01/06/american-palladium-eagle/

    hope the Mint is still considering making these.

  22. Jon in CT says

    @fosnock, the uncirculated ’12 Gold Eagle becomes available for ordering on 6/28, so you could wait til early July and combine it with the EG1 to save a little shipping, The Mint might have waited til the last minute and set a high price relative to yesterday’s spot silver price in order to guard against the possibility that the price of two ordinary bullion Silver Eagles might approach the price of the proof set during the next 6 weeks. But who knows what passes for the thought process at the Mint.

  23. guama says

    Fosnock, I was thinking the same thing…I was hoping for $129.99 based on the price of silver. But, it doesn’t look like the silver price has anything to do with it. It is based on supply and mostly demand. I am still in for a couple of sets, but it seems like it won’t stop the collectors from purchasing. That’s music to the mint’s ears!

  24. Louis says

    As far as order cancellations, I do not think we can assume that the Mint will allow people to cancel a month or whatever after they place their order when they see the numbers are too high. I suspect they will end the cancellation period something like a week after you place your order to prevent mass cancellations.

    As for the impact on the other special sets, I disagree with Zaz. We already saw how the 25th anniv. set increased prices for the 20t anniv. set. This set should have the same impact, esp. with the first S-mint RP, even if the numbers are fairly high.

  25. fosnock says

    @guama

    My thoughts exactly. They could have announced this price weeks if not months ago. There will be no secondary value on this product which I could careless about but with the higher price of this set I may drop it or I may join the horde of people dropping the DoF set, who knows let me re-post once I cool down. The $20 – $30 is not the issue I’m just upset that they acted liked they cared about the spot price. I guess they only care if the spot price goes up.

  26. Brad says

    Louis,

    I suppose you could be right, but the Mint would be making an exception to their own practice if they disallowed cancellations before the backorder ends. Historically, they have allowed cancellations of any product ordered that shows a status of “backordered.” If they were to change the status to “In Stock and Reserved” after only one week for orders placed the first day, it would be a lie. But, I guess they COULD do that if they choose. It seems the orders should remain in “backorder” status the entire time the window is open. We’ll see, I guess.

  27. guama says

    @Fosnock

    You should buy a set otherwise you’ll regret it…sorry..it’s the mama in me..lol
    The price is steep..but the SF set looks awesome. Look how much the reverse proof is costing on the secondary market..more than the cost of this. I have to keep telling myself that the Mint is government owned..in it for the money and that’s all.

  28. Louis says

    Guama,
    The Mint is part of the government but it does not receive any taxpayer funding. It is self-funded through the sale of coins. It’s better to think of it as a business that is micro-managed by the Congress. If the Mint were totally autonomous as they are in some countries, the prices would be much higher, at least $200 for this set.
    Brad- You may be right too, but I just think this set has to be handled a little differently because of the long window and the counter. I doubt the Mint will allow people to cancel right up to the last minute, but I could be wrong.

  29. guama says

    good point Louis! I am wondering if you will be able to exchange subpar AE’s after the window of opportunity has closed. I believe those will hit the secondary market if it does not.

  30. John says

    Basically each coin is $75… I wonder if the mint thought it was being creative with a price of $75 per coin for the 75th Anniversary???

  31. bos says

    Proof 70s in slabs already being sold on pre-sale for $400. What does the aftermarket know that we don’t know?

    PS anybody wanna put down a deposit now on a 2525 quadruple holographic 3D 5000 shin gold American sovereign featuring the bust of deceased former President A. Swartzenegger, graded by the official grading service of the intergalactic coin collecting league (ICCL)?

    I will ship them out to you via laser post out just as soon as I get them in about 13 years or so. At my price of $75,000 shin, you couldn’t even afford to pay the individual grading costs.

    Let’s hear it for American capitalism and greed. You gotta just love it.

  32. Shellbell says

    Mint always ships way ahead of expected ship date. I’d expect shipping within a weeks time. Keep in mind if you’re flippin, there’s a limited number of ways to make the sandwich with only 2 coins in the set. My call awesome set for the collector but dud for the flippers…

  33. Shutter says

    I doubt the Mint will allow people to cancel right up to the last minute, but I could be wrong.

    Mint’s policy explicitly states: “You may cancel your order at any time prior to processing.”

    If they are going to change that, they would have to state so explicitly. Otherwise, customers would be filing complaints with their CC companies, and the mint would see no end of pain.

  34. Dirk says

    So let me get this straight, I can buy a 1000 sets and then try and sell them for profit post sales window closing but before I receive them. Anything I don’t sell I can return for full money back once they ship July sometime. Also I could go thru all the sets cherry pick the best and ship off to graders and return the dogs. Unlike the ASE 25ths these sets can be opened and examined before sent to graders. Also what happens to all these returns since the sales window is closed at that point? Does all this sound far fetched – personally it sounds like a flippers dream come true.

  35. Louis says

    Dirk,
    You raise some good points. I think the Mint is going to have to clarify these issues.
    Shutter,
    You are probably right, but remember that they sometimes start processing a while before they actually charge your card and ship. There can be a lag of a couple weeks between the start of processing and the actual shipping based on past experience. If they do it the way you suggest, the sales counter is going to be largely meaningless. As for your card, they can do a preauthorization from the day you place your order just like other companies do, and the actual charge usually shows up anywhere from a little before to a little after the actual shipping.

  36. Louis says

    Dirk,
    As far as the TPG’s, I have not seen anything posted as far as being able to send opened sets though it makes sense since the coins are only in these sets. Have you heard anything specific from PCGS or NGC?

  37. says

    Louis, I just sent an email to a good friend of mine at NGC and asked about the submission requirements for this set…I will post as soon as I hear back.

  38. Dirk says

    Louis I highly doubt the TPGs want to deal with all that OGP again like the 25ths and what would be the point as these are standalone unique coins. Haven’t heard any definitive policy from them but I do predict at least 10 label variations between the two, with 8 of those only going to the privledged dealers.

  39. Jim says

    The Mint could also stop orders during the 1st week, and state that the orders exceeded their expectations and they cannot meet the demand, and claim it is sold out at 200,000 sets.

  40. Mach1 says

    There’s no reason for TPG’s to require sealed boxes. Both coins will carry an “S” mintmark. Easily identifiable from the “W” proof coins.

  41. Louis says

    Thanks, Steve and Dirk. I’ve been meaning to call them but have not had a chance. Sure would be nice if we can just send the coins this time.

  42. Johnny says

    To Nate, Steve and Brad, you can not speculate the future value into the selling price now, I think the mint is milking us since they knew every one will try to get some, no matter at what price.

  43. EvilFlipper says

    Way overpriced. Not for flippers…. However, the market bears watching along with a possible repricing.

  44. VA Bob says

    Dirk – The only fly in the ointment I see in your outline is the Mints seven day return policy. While that wouldn’t prevent someone from cherry picking, it would prevent them from sending them in for finial grading at a TPG, and getting them back in time to return the losers (which is <PF-69 unfortunately). I'm sure there are some "special" TPG bulk customers that bypass the "rules" everyone else follows. That is why I tend to stay away from TPG's. It's a great concept that unfortunately is exploiting average moderns customers with hype and fancy labels, IMO of course. How did the hobby ever manage before they came along? I also believe the bulk of these will ship close to the cut off date.

    For the folks concerned about the price… the Mint is just wiseing up. They see what their products go for on the secondary market, after they sell it (and sometimes while they are selling it) and want their share of the mark up, up front. This just makes it a little less juicy for flippers.

    Don't worry if it sells more than 250K. All that means is there is a demand, which should continue to grow after they are no longer available. This is provided speculators or dealers don't over buy in the hope of a quick profit off of a largely ignorant market. I believe initial secondary market profit to be small, and hopefully prevent the hype rush (the high buy price helping in that regard too). There will always be the PF70 First Strike gimmick hype that we'll see on eBay, no stopping fools parting with their money. Wish I had that kind of disposable cash. It's like painting a new car the same color the day after you buy it. My take… a 70 or 69 is still a 70 or 69 in OGP, unless you plan on selling very soon to someone that doesn't understand what they are buying (which is a label) anyway. Ok for classic coins, not so great for moderns, unless one is concerned the Mint is sending them a counterfeit coin. I'll take my chances from the mint, otherwise I go to a show were I can inspect the coin in hand. Will buy slabbed coins, but not at a premium, sorry.

    The final mintages will also have NO bearing on the values of other sets. Unless they are going to put 2011, 2006, or 1996 dates and those respective mint marks on them, why would they? Does a 2009 Buffalo affect the price of a 2008? Of course not, so don't worry about that at all. If anything it drives more people to keep their collection up to date. Remember not all ASE collectors collect proof ASE's, Their is a large population that collect plain bullion ASE's (yes even slabbed MS-70 versions). They might still pick up a set or two. Then there is the gift-giver crowd with graduations coming up. If over 500K of these go, then I can see a problem beginning (remember the 2001 silver Buffalo, they seam to be doing fine at 500K). The return just might not be as high as some would like, I'm in for two sets, which will stay OGP.

  45. Larry says

    The truth is nobody knows what this set will be worth in the future. The 2009 UHR seemed high at $1200, but now looks like a bargain. The 2010 P 5OZ ATB’s seemed like they had a big upscale potential with such a low mintage, but have not done anything. But I have a feeling in the long run this may be a good investment ONLY if no other S mint reverse proof ASE’s are ever made. Either way I will buy a set, as I think the reverse proof ASE’s are among the most beautiful of American coins.

  46. Dan says

    I thought for sure they’d offer it for $99.95, but at $149.95 I am in for one set, possibly two. I’d really like to know how the Mint came up with the price, but I guess they won’t be making those details clear anytime soon.

    I’d like to see the Mint offer a reverse AE in uncirculated as well as Proof. That would be a nice way to add diversity to the collection.

  47. Shutter says

    As for your card, they can do a preauthorization from the day you place your order just like other companies do, and the actual charge usually shows up anywhere from a little before to a little after the actual shipping.

    My point about credit cards was that if the vendor (US Mint in this case) has a published policy about cancellations and returns (as the Mint does), the credit card companies will enforce it, if necessary via chargebacks. But quiet apart from that this will generate a great deal of paperwork for the mint. Charge authorization or pre-authorization is not relevant to that. This would be taking place after billing.

  48. Louis says

    Dave,
    I like the SSB set coming out today. I am thinking of getting one along with my El Yunque this afternoon. As you probably know, you can get these in person at the Mint or Union Station. They should have the SSB tomorrow. They probably won’t sell out right away but they should eventually. I think the packaging is a bonus too.

  49. Shutter says

    So let me get this straight, I can buy a 1000 sets and then ….. go thru all the sets cherry pick the best and ship off to graders and return the dogs.

    Let’s see. 1,000 sets. Let’s assume about 5 minutes per set. That’s a total of 83 hours. You would have to spend that whole 7 day period on that and not much else. Let’s assume that like 25th anniversary set nearly all of them are pretty good. You send them all to NGC. 35% come back as PF69 and 65% as PF70. You will probably lose money or break even on PF69. You may make some money on PF70, but is all this effort really worth it? Also, who’s going to spot you $150K plus the cost shipping and grading.

  50. LBrewer42 says

    Price gouging – nothing but.

    The number of coins included, size of packaging, and therefore overall cost of production are all 40% of the 2011 set. Therefore the 2012 issue price should follow suit and be 40% of 300.00 (issue price of 2011) or 120.00.

    So either their production manager changed from last year and it cost them 30.00 more to make these smaller sets, or they simply decided to make an extra 30.00 profit per set since they know people will buy these. Do you remember the questionnaires they sent out last year to determine this?

    They underestimated last years 2011 set – especially the reverse proof. And it appears they want to make sure to fatten their purses this time at the buyers’ expense.

    Another factor to consider in the cost is that the larger a production run, the smaller the cost per unit becomes. There is no limit to the number of these they will make. Production costs should be lower – but they will pocket the difference.

  51. CB says

    The 1994 proof Silver Eagle goes for about $75, with a mintage of 372,000. I think that if the mintage of the 2012-S set is 372K or lower, the set will be a decent value at the Mint’s offering price of $150.

  52. Gary says

    Since we had all the cry babies who didnt get the 25th Anniversary Sets..now we will have 2 silver eagles that will be worth a little over spot!! May have to wait 30 years to see some profit hear? Doesnt make any sense to me but at least everyone will be able to have as many as they want? What a joke!
    How does this make up for the 25th Anniversary Set? Those will always be winners and this set will always be a loser! Is this what collectors are really after or am i seeing something different? UGH!!

  53. Louis says

    Gary,
    This could be the wave of the future! The Mint makes a ton, while we end up with “made to demand” stuff. However, as several posters have said, these may end of having some premium, but in my view probably not a lot.

  54. Mercury says

    I thought the whole point of the US Mint doing away with the mintage limits and extending the purchase window for this “S” mint set was to allow the opportunity for everyone who did not have a chance to purchase a 2011 25th Anniversary Silver Eagle Set, to acquire an equally affordable set as an alterative. So can somebody please tell me why it is that the Mint did not decided to keep sale price for this 2-coin set compoable to that of it’s 5 coin cousin? Obviously this price fixing was NOT done to appease any of last years’ disenchanted collectors. In considering this price tag, they would have probably accomplished more good from a collectors standpoint to have simply raised the price of the set a few more buck, and added a mintage limit; at least in the end, we as collectors would know where we stand. The way it is now, the US Mint is the flipper, and we all have no other choice but to take it or leave it. So is this new “mintage” move really being done in behalf of those less fortunate individuals that missed out on purchasing the 2011 Anniversary Set. It seems to me that the premium costs that collectors are forking out for this Set has no semblance of sympathy of the part of the Mint’s effort to right a wrong. Seems more like a measure to capitalize on the plight of those less fortunate, and make up for loss revenue at the expense of everyone else as well. But again that’s just my take on the situation.

  55. Shiny says

    Price is too high and a sign that the mint is out to take advantage of collectors.

    This is the same mint that imposed price controls on the distributors of the 2010 ATB silver 5oz following howls of price gouging – seems they are OK if they are the ones doing the gouging.

  56. Shutter says

    I would like to encourage everyone here to boycott this set to show the Mint how you feel. Instead invest all your new coin budget in “circulating” S quarters and presidential coins. Me, I’m going the other way.

  57. fosnock says

    What nobody has considered is that the mint may already anticipated demand and have 100K or more sets already produced, so when the orders come they are already packed and ready to ship. If they per-produced the 2011 ATBs and are now stuck with them, what is to say they will not try the same thing with these sets.

    @Shiny
    The only reason the mint stopped the gouging was that the AP had contracts to sell bullion. It was in their best interest to stop the gouging. I have always said the AP no longer serve a useful purpose as companies and individuals can now buy directly from the Mint. Their entire business model come into question if the APs suddenly start charging semi-numismatic, or numismatic pricing on bullion mint offerings.

    @Mercury
    I could not have said it better myself

    @guama
    Your right It looks like I will bite the bullet on this one but I hate the taste

  58. fosnock says

    @Shutter

    I thought about it but it would do no good to boycott. Their are too many true collectors that need this set

  59. Brad says

    The price actually isn’t THAT out of line, if you consider the past. On August 30, 2006 when the 20th Anniversary ASE 3-coin set went on sale, the London price fix for silver was $12.60. The sales price of the set was $100. So, on opening day the metal value was only 37.8% of the sales price. Fast forward to today, when the London price fix for silver is $27.38, and the sales price of the upcoming 2-coin set is $149.95. That makes the metal value 36.52% of the sales price today, subject to change before June 7. But, as you can see the percentages are VERY close.

    I guess we just weren’t as sensitive to prices back in 2006 as we are now.

  60. fosnock says

    @Shutter

    To elaborate if a collectors is willing to pay twice the issue price for a 25th Anniversary set (the going rate on E-bay last time I checked) then they will fork out for this set. We are about to see what the real demand is for these sets taking away the flippers.

  61. fosnock says

    @Brad

    Its not the price read Mercury’s comments again. This was suppose to appease their collector base after messing up on the 25 anniversary set. They also made a big stink about basing the price on the silver spot price, then ignored it. This reminds me of the 2009 Lincoln pennies, they puled the first commemorative penny (log cabin) without warning and that jacked the price on the secondary market, when the released the second coin in the series (formative years) their was mad rush to get them, and the mint meet this demand in spades, so that they were worthless in the secondary market.

    On a side note about per-production if the sets are pre-produced, and they do not sell, the mint can simply change the time frame to sell the coins. If they can do this with the ATBs they certainly can do this for this coin. I expect they must have at least 100K sets ready to ship on day one.

  62. Brad says

    I wasn’t basing that on what Mercury said about appeasement to disappointed would-be buyers of the 2011 25th Anniversary set. Rather, it was meant to point out that the metal value has historically been a low percentage of sales price dating back a few years. I don’t recall anyone complaining about the $100 price tag back in 2006, but many of those posting here are talking about the high price relative to metal value for this set and how it’s gouging. It may be, but it’s nothing that hasn’t been going on for years it seems.

    I hope sales stay low because of so much anger over the price. This set will be too nice to be doomed to failure as nothing but a bullion set in a fancy box!

  63. J A says

    I’m in for at least 2 and I don’t suspect that there will much aftermarket hunger for this set INITIALLY. Once the ordering period is up however, I see the value of the set gradually increasing……

  64. Brad says

    Captain,

    Yeah, gold is on fire for some reason. The difference between the am and pm price fix is $53.50! Even silver’s current quote is $1.18 over the price fix for today. So, now the percentage value for the silver metal value compared to sales price is 38.09%. At the time of this writing, it’s a BETTER value than the 2006 set was. 🙂

  65. fosnock says

    @Brad

    Non-farms report came in lower than anticipated….the expectation is the Fed will print more money to “stimulate” the economy

  66. fosnock says

    @Brad

    I don’t think you were bashing anyone but your fixating on price, we are fixating on rederick. You have once again talked about the set’s cost, I’m upset because this was suppose to be a “do over” in order to help collectors, but instead it is just another opportunity for the mint to mess with collectors.

  67. Dan says

    Bleak US economic data along with a slowing of hiring in US companies suggest the recovery is running out of steam. That would force investors into other “safer” investments, and cause the dollar to weaken which sends gold up. To me this suggest that Ben Bernacke will implement QE3 sooner rather than later and once he does, gold & silver should continue to rise and surpass their 2011 highs, so maybe $149.95 does not seem so far fetched. Did the US Mint have access to this economic data ahead of the general public?

  68. Jus-a-coin-luvr says

    Did the Mint fall asleep about posting up the purchase link for the “Star-Spangled Banner Bicentennial Silver Dollar Set” that’s supposed to go on-sale in less than an hour?

  69. says

    Dan,

    It’s possible, the Mint is certainly a government agency. If QE3 is going to happen soon, that would certainly cause prices to start moving upward very fast.

    Or it could just be the Mint has good metals analysts advising them on price trends. I myself have always been convinced the recent selloff was strictly a short term trend.

  70. William says

    The loud thud we heard this morning was the US economy falling hard on its face. Mortgages and metals will rally nicely once QE3 is made official.

  71. Jon in CT says

    fosnock wrote on June 1, 2012 at 9:52 am:
    What nobody has considered is that the mint may already anticipated demand and have 100K or more sets already produced, so when the orders come they are already packed and ready to ship.

    Nobody (other than a paranoid) should worry there will be a stockpile ready to ship in early June because there is a statement at the bottom of the “Purchasing Information” section of the product page at http://catalog.usmint.gov/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=16760&langId=-1 which states, in red color:
    Shipping is expected to begin in late July 2012.

  72. says

    I heard back from NGC this morning regarding submission requirements for the SF set….you only need to send the coins!!!

  73. Wes says

    The Mint website now says price to be determined for the 2012 American Eagle San Francisco Two Coin Silver Proof Set. Maybe they were reading this blog.

  74. CB says

    Re boycotts: In 1995, many silver eagle collectors boycotted the 1995-W 10th Anniversary proof, protesting the fact that the only way to get it was to shell out $995 for the 4-coin gold eagle proof set. Because of the boycott, the issue sold only 2/3 of the authorized mintage of 45,000. Those who bought the set made a nice profit thanks to the boycotters, who received nothing.

    I’m not saying that history will repeat itself, it probably won’t. But I think boycotting an offering just to “punish” the Mint is generally not a winning strategy.

  75. fosnock says

    @Jon in CT

    Yes that is what the mint website says, just like the ATBs 5oz were only suppose to be available for the year that the quarters were minted. I guess I’m a paranoid, but then the mint has not been known to be trust worthy. Anyway I suspect that they will ship sooner than late July. The irony is that even if they ship in late July it will still ship before my DoF set is scheduled to ship, and I ordered it in March

  76. fosnock says

    @Jon in CT

    I take it back earlier this week my DoF set was scheduled to ship in August, and now my status is “In stock and reserved” A full two month early from what they told me less than 5 days ago, and you wonder why I’m paranoid?

  77. Brad says

    If gold keeps going up, the Mint might suspend sales of the collector gold coins until the weekly pricing adjustment can be made next Wednesday. It’s just too bad that I already have all the ones I need of what’s presently being offered. I wanted to be able to take advantage of the current lower pricing for some 2012 First Spouses! These delays and silence are really annoying!

  78. John says

    Also interesting the mint employee stated that no “Proof bullion coins have been struck in S.F. until today”. So where were the 1986S – 1992S minted then???? or is the “Proof Bullion” different than a Proof “non-bullion”???

  79. george glazener says

    LOL….You’re right Samuel, they just looked at Kitco and now they’re thinking $179.95…!!

  80. Jon in CT says

    I suspect the factor which determines when these sets begin shipping is availability of the packaging, not availability of the coins. The SF Mint has been knocking out proof Silver Eagles for weeks already. If they end up with too many at the end of the order window they can reserve some for replacement of returned coins and/or melt them down with only a small loss. The packaging, however, is relatively expensive and unique to this set, so producing too many is expensive, as is restarting production if too few are ordered. The Mint minimizes its packaging costs if it can provide a precise number needed to the contractor so that they can be produced in a single production run. In order to provide that number, the Mint will have to wait until the order window closes.

  81. Zaz says

    In all the posts on this thread, no one has mentioned the possible reason for the price gouging: the difference in seignoirage this year as opposed to last. There will be probably a 1/5th to a 1/4th of minted dollars this year, coupled with the fact the Federal Reserve keeps ordering those hella expensive pennies and nickels by the amoured truckload. So it is very easy for the Mint to strategize minimizing the shortfall by raiding its customer base.

    It really has nothing to do with “making up” to the disappointed customers that weren’t able to get a mint-issued A25, except to create tha aura of a hotly desired product that’s merely riding on the momentum of the aftermarket A25s. Everything they make or not allowed to make is controlled by Congress, they only have a say on how it’s marketed and distributed to the public, which usually means that some segment of the collecting fraternity will be P/O’d by the pricing and/or distribution method. For a government-run entity, it’s a classic no-win situation.

  82. Mercury says

    I do see a double standard taking place here. When looking back to when the 2010 America the Beautiful Silver Bullion Coins were released to the AP’s, the price they planned on charging the public caused such uproar that the US Mint was forced to stand up and take notice, which led to the Mints’ pulling the plug on their distributing it. The US Mint in response to concerns, postponed those 5oz releases over reports of excessive premiums being charged. Accordingly, the US Mint delayed the launch until it could review the situation and initiate new conditions for those AP’s wanting to sell them. Under the new agreement, purchasers who opted to order the new five ounce strikes agreed to resell them straight to the public and limit the premium charged on each coin sale to not more than ten percent above the price at which they obtained them, plus a reasonable shipping and handling fee. The purchasers pay the US Mint an amount equal to the London PM Fix price for silver on a designated day multiplied by the number of ounces they ordered, plus the Mint’s premium of $9.75 per five ounce coin which it charges to cover production and distribution costs. So now I ask if setting price limits were good for the goose, then it shouldn’t the same conditions also apply to the gander? I said it once now I’m saying it again, “Never mind this Set and whatever else the Mint has to offer. I quit!! I’m going on high anus from purchasing any more products from them. I am sick and tired of being coned! This is getting ridicules!! 10 years from now they will be giving this crap away on EBay! Come on US Mint get a clue! We are tired of being your puppets”!

  83. Louis says

    Steve, Thanks for the info. I plan to get one to keep in OGP and one I will send to either NGC or PCGS.

    On the price of the set, I may be wrong, but I think many of you are forgetting or don’t realize that the web site never had the price. It is in the Federal Register notice, which is online. I don’t think silver has gone up nearly enough to result in a change from $150 unless it keeps going up in the coming days.

  84. t. marsh says

    they want half the price of the 2011 5 coin set for the two coin set and you people think tis is fair, matbe if they put in a half ounce coin also then i would agree that $150 is a good price

  85. Louis says

    Mercury,
    Bullion is not the same as numismatic as far as how the Mint distributes product. The 2010 ATB uproar was about bullion coins that the AP’s were marking up with numismatic premiums way above what they were contractually required to charge (a small premium over what they pay the Mint). But numismatic issues like these sets are handled, priced, and distributed differently. They are always sold at a bigger premium over melt and sold directly by the Mint. Assuming the price stays at $150, I think it’s okay. Let’s just wait and see what they actually do next week. Remember as I said above the $150 has been published in the Federal Register. They would have to publish a new notice before the 7th to change it.

  86. snider says

    reading these comments cracks me up.
    it will cost you a measly 150 bucks for a set. no big deal. yet the amount of incessent complaining and worrying about resale… geez. is it worth it?
    my first thought after reading your comments was that i am going to buy 5000 sets to undermine the resale market. then you can complain.
    here’s my bottom line: i am going to buy a set for myself and a number for my nieces and nephews–who the heck cares what it will cost–they are a nice gift.
    (and to the morons above complaining that the mint is “gouging/making too much money on them: let me get this right–the mint is in business to lose money so you can make it on re-sale?) gimmie a break…

  87. Mercury says

    @ snider
    Hey, I got some rainbow property in Florida. Are you interested in that as well? Sound like just the kind of guy I’m looking for.

  88. Shutter says

    Fosnock & CT,

    I Wasn’t recommending the boycott of this set because it would do any good, but precisely because it wouldn’t. All those complaining about price, mint to demand, and lack of rationing should boycott the set because it would make them feel better (or at least superior) immediately. The rest of us will fell better years from now when the set appreciates nicely because fewer people bought it. The way I see it everybody wins.

  89. guama says

    I noticed as well about the mint not publishing the price of the SF sets. I was wondering if that was set in stone once the Federal Register prints it

  90. Shutter says

    Thanks been waiting for the mouse
    As Louis pointed out earlier, yes it is until a revised price is published and that takes forever plus a week.

  91. VA Bob says

    @ snider – Although I’m sure your level of “directness” ruffled some feathers, I agree in principle. There is overall too much worrying on every topic of “how much profit am I going to make a week after I buy from the Mint”. Now, nobody wants to waste their hard earned bucks on a poor investment. I realize there are many dealers, flippers, and speculators that come here and comment. I understand their motivation, next weeks price on an item IS a big deal for them. You guys (gals) should comment on that, if that’s your beef.

    Collectors, well you folks are in for the long haul. You will buy this and other sets because you enjoy them (providing you have the funds). Anyone that buys the annual proof sets (these products are financial losers) knows what I’m speaking about. For many of us a significant portion of our collections might never realize a profit in our lifetime, but we enjoy them none the less.

    If a collector is worried or complaining about spending $150, yet is smiling ear to ear if the set is pre-selling on eBay for $300-$400, even though they have no intention of selling… is probably in the wrong hobby. The drama will ruin you. We all know prices change up and down over time. Really the only time one needs to worry about price is when they want to liquidate a piece or maybe all of their collection. If anyone here is one of those smart fellows, that only picks winners that trend up from day one until the end of time, my hat’s off to you.

    That said, the Mint has set it’s price. You’re either in or out. Yeah it’d be nice if the Mint gave them away, but no use day dreaming. So here’s hoping everyone gets a little of what they want… a nice coin, a profit, an investment. And let’s realize everyone is here for different reasons. Buy what you like.

  92. posterhunter says

    Maybe it is priced so high because everything in San Francisco is so expensive these days and they want us to feel the pain.

  93. Natatack says

    Wondering with all these products coming out from the mint within the next few months, if some coins will see a low sale, like what happened in 2008 with the gold eagles and gold buffaloes. We got gold proof eagles, first spouse, clad and silver proof sets, gold proof buffalo, proof w silver eagle, a unc w silver in fall, the 75th SF set, the various rolls of presidents,native American ,JFK halfs, mint sets, the SSB gold and silver, birth sets, products left over from 2011, a possible s unc ASE where do you direct your limited resources? Tho I think if low sales happen in too many series the mint may end some of the issues like with the proof/unc gold buffalo fractionals after 1 year.

  94. says

    Just another confection offered by the Mint to feed the hopeless addiction to silver eagle novelties. Being minted to demand should ensure making these coins very common bullion items. Flipper demand should be very low on this given the time frame to order and order fulfillment by the Mint after all orders are taken.

  95. Richard W says

    I’ve held back on this one.There has been a whole lot of disgust expressed on the SF ASE set.I believe this set was or is intended to be a peace offering.The 75th birthday of the SF mint deserves a celebration of sorts I’m not sure this is the path they should have gone down,seems to me to be a little much at a lot too much green.I’ve collected this series since day one 1986 and buy little else of the US mint mostly junk and I’m thinking of quitting,but like someone stated much earlier,if you don’t buy at least one your going to regret it he was absolutely right on.The mint totally botched the 5 piece set.That could and should have been the golden spike for them.They may never get another chance to dazzle the COLLECTORS again at least not for many moons.My advice to the collector is going to be a repeat of me and many other posters,if you like this series in spite of there judgement and management continue on in your fashion,don’t let others discourage you.I will continue on in my conservative fashion and so should you.The celebration offering i believe should have been a bronze medal something all Americans by choice would savor.

  96. Jack in N.E says

    Do others wish the mint would charge the c.c when orderered intead of when shipped? I think it would help some of us on a budget. Thanks

  97. Shutter says

    Do others wish the mint would charge the c.c when orderered intead of when shipped? I think it would help some of us on a budget.

    First, it would violate credit card company rules. Second, how exactly would it help? Presumably, once you place the order, you can put money aside for it.

  98. Ikaika says

    @ George Glazener

    Believe it or not, there are some people that purchase these presales. It’s amazing to see how many misinformed are out there. I am looking forward to the SF ASE set this week.

  99. Samuel says

    the first listing is for 5 sets, so $190 per set is not that crazy. the 2nd listing is just too much. i remember when the 25th set came out, the pre-sale price was about $450.

  100. ED says

    I wish I could buy 1, 2012 reverse proof coin for $100……. Think again Samuel…..$450 ?? LOL!! Try $700.

  101. Dan says

    The one eBay auction of 5 sets for $950 is barely making the seller $12-$13 per set after costs (eBay, PayPal fee’s & S/H). If they sold it as an eBay store they could make a little more money on the deal (about $22 per set). Those fee’s add up and eat up a lot of any possible profit. Still for very little effort on one’s part, this person figures on pocketing $60-$65 from someone else.

  102. guama says

    Yep…but did you see that guy had 140 hits??? I am interested in seeing if he actually gets that amount…lol

    Excited to order mine from the Mint.

  103. Gary says

    I thought pre-selling on Ebay was not allowed? I thought there was a big stink when people were pre-selling the 25th Anniversary Sets?

  104. Dan says

    It turns out that you can actually pre-sale items on eBay but you have to do so with certain restrictions http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/pre-sale.html The auction must comply with these terms (basically you have to be able to ship the item within 30 days of the auction ending. One eBay seller that had the 5 sets listed for $950 has now added several individual auctions starting from $150 to $155 and/or Buy it Now of $225. I guess there a lot of misinformed people out there who just don’t know they could get the sets earlier and cheaper directly from the Mint.

  105. Samuel says

    usmint does not ship to all countries so some people have to buy from ebay, just like i have to buy from ebay for european coins, e.g., austria, finland etc.

  106. Dan says

    Now if someone listed one of these for sale on eBay with the explanation that anyone that is able to can order directly from the US Mint for less money. The auction would include the time frame as well as a link to the US Mint. If they still insisted on ordering one, they could (at a higher price that would account for fee’s and S/H, etc …). How many bids would be canceled on similar auctions. Would this be a community service to non-informed bidders? It just seems so wrong to take advantage of someone who is not so well informed. Doesn’t it?

  107. Dan says

    @anh, yep that’s the one that I was referring to in my post. If no one else bids on it, the seller will be forced to take a loss on account of fee’s, but could easily refund the money stating they were not able to acquire the sets.

  108. Dave in CT. says

    It would be very nice if the general coin collectors knew that you can get less expensive and genuine coins from our mint. I also think over time that collectors, some that is, will stop sending coins in for grading. Most are 68 to 70 nowadays and it just isn’t worth it with so many modern coins that are being minted. It’s different if a individual is trying to obtain a 70/70-set. But other than that, it should slow down over time when you see that coin stores don’t care about those hihg coin numbers, or ebay buyers find out (when they sell them) ,not many are wiling to pay premiums on coins that were produced in the 100,000’s or so. I’ll take OGP any day, and outside of the mints, a collector doesn’t really know if that coin has been cheery picked.

  109. Don says

    Dave,
    I agree with you that OGP is the way to go with modern collector quality coins, such as proof, uncirculated, and other special sets from the mint. It is pretty ridiculus to waste money sending these coins to grading companies since, as you point out, they will typically grade out in 69 or 70. Further, the “first strike” designation that grading companies are using is a marketing ploy probably started by the coin shows on the shopping networks.

  110. Al says

    My plan is this to hold off on buying the set and watch how the sales go. If it appears that the mintage will be under 200,000 I’ll buy.

  111. Dave in CT. says

    I will buy just 1. No family to leave it to or have anyone that is worth spending this money on. Well ! Maybe my dog. But he likes his slabbed and in a MS69 with a milk bone on the side.

  112. EO says

    … I’ll bet they sell 420k sets… Being that they are minted in San Fransisco; the land where there are many more stoners than coins minted!

  113. Dave in CT. says

    EO,
    Thanks ! Never knew that about Frisco.
    Learn something everyday ! (lol)

  114. guama says

    many sets selling on ebay for $150…he’ll be in the hole if he sells at asking price.

  115. NATATACK says

    If they sell on ebay for $150 with no tax, free shipping and eligible for ebay bucks that would be a deal! unless they were cherry picked, but still would save a few bucks per set.

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