Silver medals for the American Armed Forces in World War I

Recruitment-WWI-LOC

The Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee (a congressionally established public committee that advises the secretary of the Treasury with design and theme recommendations for U.S. coins and medals) met at United States Mint headquarters in Washington, D.C., on March 21, 2017. This meeting had been postponed one week by the mid-March blizzard that snarled travel plans around the East Coast.

One of our main agenda items was to review and discuss candidate designs for the 2018 World War I Armed Forces silver medals. These will be packaged and released with the upcoming WWI centennial commemorative silver dollar, celebrating Allied victory and the end of the Great War. Each of five medals will represent a branch or service of the military (Army, Navy, Air Service, Marine Corps, and Coast Guard) and its contributions to winning the war. A sixth medal, if the Mint accepts a motion from the committee, would depict the Home Front and the contributions of women to the war effort.

With more than 60 design proposals and 5 military branches involved, the Mint and the CCAC have put a lot of time and effort into planning this historic program.

My approach for reviewing the designs and making my recommendations was to favor obverse/reverse pairings that told a “before” and “after” story—basically, “Over Here” (representing the recruitment, mobilization, training, or other preparation of American troops in the United States) and “Over There” (showing the troops armed and in action, contributing to Allied victory in the war). I felt that using each military branch’s emblem on the reverse, as recommended by the U.S. Commission of Fine Arts (the other committee that reviews U.S. coins and medals), would make them too similar to privately issued military challenge coins, and would cut in half the already limited real-estate of two 1.5-inch canvases. On the other hand, committee members, as well as military representatives present at the meeting, noted the popularity of challenge coins (which are given as thank-you’s or mementoes, and collected by service members as well as civilians). “We sailors like our emblem,” as committee member Herman Viola, a veteran, put it. After discussion we moved to recommend to the secretary of the Treasury that each medal feature its service insignia on the reverse, with as many of the inscriptions moved to the reverse as possible. This will free up the obverses to focus on art rather than wording.

After design manager April Stafford introduced the medal program to the committee, Chair Mary Lannin opened the discussion and invited senior-ranking member Donald Scarinci to begin.

Scarinci—never one to hold back his opinions—made a contrast between the committee’s recommended design for the upcoming 2018 World War I commemorative silver dollar and the sketches in this batch of medal proposals. The 2018 dollar, he noted, has a creative, captivating, modernistic design with medal-like qualities. With the Armed Forces proposals, compared to the silver dollar, “we have medals that look like coins, and a coin that looks like a medal”—a contrast that, he judged, wouldn’t package well, and therefor would result in poor sales. “Medals sell because their designs are pretty,” he emphasized. “They need to be something special for people to buy them. They’re not coins.” He gave as successful examples the recent Roosevelt medal that sold out its mintage in just two weeks, and the 2016 American Liberty silver medal that sold out in a matter of minutes. He also compared the medal proposals to other, more innovative World War I coins and medals issued by Great Britain, Australia, and other nations, saying that none of the proposal sketches would be award winners or serious competition for more stylized works. He linked this program to the creativity of the U.S. Mint’s recently launched American Liberty gold-coin program, which includes silver medals based on the gold designs. The Mint’s innovation in medals, if it continues to be well received, has the potential to lead to innovation in coins, to the benefit of American coinage of all sorts. On the other hand, Scarinci warned, low sales in the World War I Armed Forces program might be misinterpreted as something being wrong, sales-wise, with medals, rather than a failure of these particular designs or the way they’re packaged and sold.

A display of the 2017 High Relief American Liberty gold coin, in the lobby of Mint headquarters. (CoinUpdate.com photo)

A display of the 2017 High Relief American Liberty gold coin, in the lobby of Mint headquarters. (CoinUpdate.com photo)

I agree with Donald Scarinci that we’re at a “tipping point” with the Mint’s modern medals program. The seeds of innovation have been planted, and they have the potential to blossom and be harvested if properly nurtured. They also risk dying on the vine, if the bottom line—sales, which depend on resonance with hobbyists and the general public—fail to materialize. Encouragingly, from conversations with collectors and round-table discussion at the Mint’s November 2016 Numismatic Forum in Philadelphia, I think this World War I program has strong potential. Mintages should be set properly—low enough to generate excitement and a perception of scarcity, but high enough to avoid droves of frustrated customers being turned away. The fact that the medals will be silver, not bronze, is a plus, as is their Proof (rather than Uncirculated or bullion-finish) format. Precious metals and Proofs are popular with the general public as well as coin collectors. Furthermore, the medals will have a built-in audience of active and retired service members of each military branch, and their families and friends—a considerable host added to normal demand from the hobby community. Attractive packaging, savvy marketing, and fair distribution, of course, will be important in the program’s sales success.

Herman Viola reminded the forum that he is an advisor to the World War I Centennial Commission, and he shared his insight from serving that body. “There is immense interest around the world in these medals,” Viola said. “Don’t worry too much about sales.” The Mint’s artists, he observed, had submitted good work, with their designs showing technical and historical accuracy.

Committee member Erik Jansen shared some of Donald Scarinci’s concerns. “I’m frustrated with pictures on metal,” he said, calling the proposed designs “lacking in symbols and long on pictures.” He also wondered if the price point for a dollar-and-medal package—$100 or more—might be too high for many collectors. He recommended issuing the medals individually and in a lower-priced bronze format. (For comparison, the Mint’s 1.5-inch medals in bronze are priced at $6.95 and its 3-inch medals in bronze are $39.95.)

Committee member Mike Moran also compared the medal proposals to the upcoming World War I silver dollar. (Moran, Scarinci, and Lannin each served on the jury, or subcommittee, that focused on that particular commemorative-coin program. Congress specified that the coin’s open competition would be juried by three members each from the CCAC and the U.S. Commission of Fine Arts.) Describing the silver dollar’s chosen design (which, as of this writing, has not yet been made public) as “poignant,” he said that the medal designs neither complement nor contrast the coin—rather, many of them compete with it, but without the same level of quality. He summed up the designs as “just okay,” noting that many are overly cluttered with busy detail. He recommended using the branch’s emblems on the reverse, to avoid duplication of scenes (such as two scenes of battle) and to help avoid confusion over, for example, the Army and the Marines (who wore the same uniforms and fought with the same weapons). “In the end,” he said, “art sells coins and medals.”

Committee member Thomas Uram, having studied recent coinage designs, recommended that the Mint’s artists scale back the amount of surface frosting, and include more contrast between fields, design elements, and lettering. Regarding the use of emblems for each medal, he noted that the 2005 Marine Corps silver dollar sold out its mintage limit and won a coveted Coin of the Year award in international competition—all of this while featuring the Marine Corps emblem on its reverse. He recommended that the World War I medals showcase the insignia of each military branch. Uram further remarked on a lost opportunity to expand beyond the traditional physicality of coinage—“Why not square, octagonal, or pentagonal shapes?” he asked. The World War I medals will be the diameter of the standard silver dollar (1.5 inches).

Committee member Heidi Wastweet remarked on the inherent sexism of the designs submitted, calling it disrespectful to not depict women and their contributions to the American war effort. She recommended that a “Home Front” medal be added to the program—an idea that was floated in March 2016 during initial CCAC discussion of the medals. Later in the meeting, Mike Moran would make a formal motion for this addition, with Wastweet seconding. Wastweet also noted the “overabundance of verbiage” in many of the designs. She recommended using the military branch emblems as an organizing factor, with all (or most) verbiage moved to the reverses. This would free up the obverse designs, allowing more negative space and making them more medallic, rather than coin-like.

Committee member Jeanne Stevens-Sollman posed a question to the Mint: “What are we trying to achieve” with the medals program? She asked rhetorically about their presentation: “Are we showing a movie? Sending postcards? Or are we conveying to the viewer what the U.S. contributed to victory in the war?” She observed that medals often benefit from verbiage when it’s used to educate the viewer and guide them in what they’re seeing.

CCAC members taking a recess during their day-long meeting, Mint headquarters, Washington, D.C. (CoinUpdate.com photo)

CCAC members taking a recess during their day-long meeting, Mint headquarters, Washington, D.C. (CoinUpdate.com photo)

The Army Silver Medal

WWI-2018-silver-medals-Army

For the Army silver medal, many committee members recommended design O-04 for the obverse. This shows a doughboy standing at the ready, holding his rifle, with the American flag waving in the background. It’s a motif familiar from photographs and recruitment posters of the era, and if the wording is moved to the medal’s reverse, it will make a bold central design.

Many of the other obverse (and reverse) designs are too busy to translate well to a dollar-sized planchet. Fine detail would be lost on such a small canvas.

To me, O-03, showing a gas mask, bayonet, shovel, barbed wire, and other tools, spoke too much of the technical aspects of battle, rather than the human side of the conflict. Erik Jansen described it as a frankly disturbing tableau showing “the horrors of war.” Committee member Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, conferencing by phone, spoke of the historic Hell Fighters unit, and recommended that they be acknowledged. In our March 2016 meeting, Chris Isleib, director of public affairs for the World War I Centennial Commission, had also mentioned the Hell Fighters. “[World War I] was the birth of the 369th Harlem Hell Fighters infantry unit, which was a regiment that was sent to fight in French uniforms with French units because of the racial segregation in America,” Isleib noted. “When they came back after fighting in more combat than any other unit in America they faced racism as soon as they arrived back here in America. This unit also had regimental bands; the 369th and 379th actually brought jazz to Paris.” Abdul-Jabbar’s choice for the obverse of the Army medal was O-05.

After discussion and voting, the committee’s recommendation is for a simplified version of obverse O-04, and the Army emblem of R-03.

The Navy Silver Medal

WWI-2018-silver-medals-Navy

For the Navy medal, the Mint’s artists submitted fewer design proposals. Of the three obverse sketches, my preference was for O-01—it’s an active scene that showcases a destroyer at sea, an exploding depth charge, and kite balloons on reconnaissance (an important Navy function during the war). O-02, showing the USS Wadsworth escorting a convoy, is a dynamic design with some very artful flourishes, but on a 1.5-inch surface the plume of the depth charge in the background would make it look like the ship itself was exploding. Erik Jansen called attention to the attractive wave in O-02, but observed that the design would risk losing its detail in the sculpting.

“None of these designs capture my grandfather’s experience in World War I,” said committee member Robert Hoge. He noted that many sailors during the war were sick, and those who were healthy took care of the ill, with few of them seeing any exciting action.

Dr. Dennis Conrad, a naval historian for the Department of Defense, phoned in to the meeting. He agreed with the idea of using the branch insignia as reverse designs.

Jeanne Stevens-Sollman brought up the obverse of the 2016 Mark Twain commemorative silver dollar, designed by Artistic Infusion Program artist Chris Costello and sculpted by Mint medallic sculptor Michael Gaudioso. Specifically, Stevens-Sollman remarked on the creative depiction of the smoke from Twain’s pipe. She opined that such creativity could help busy designs avoid redundancies of texture and frosting among different detail elements. She also emphasized that there can be energy in a design’s text, not just its symbols, and that text can be treated as an artistic element itself.

Chair Mary Lannin expressed a preference for obverse O-02, but reduced to its bare essentials—keeping the ship’s essence and making the design more medallic.

The Air Service, American Expeditionary Forces, Silver Medal

WWI-2018-silver-medals-Air-Service

Eight obverse designs and eight reverse designs awaited our study for the silver medal of the Air Service (which would later become its own separate military branch, in 1947). For the obverse, I found O-02 to be the most artistically medallic in composition and fabric. It shows an aviator in three-quarters profile, looking up to the sky, his scarf streaming in the wind, combined with a winged propeller inspired by an Air Service insignia. A compass symbolizes the air-combat units’ “power and precision in all directions,” as noted by design manager April Stafford. Among the reverse designs, to me reverse R-05 is the most dynamic, showing a SPAD XIII plane in a dogfight with two German triplanes, with the French countryside seen as a dramatically tilted horizon line that expresses motion and the controlled chaos of such combat.

Erik Jansen called out O-05 and O-06, each showing a World War I pilot. He also liked reverse R-06 used as the obverse, but stripped down without the inscriptions. He noted its depiction of the precision of the airplane as a weapon. Mary Lannin agreed with this assessment, saying that R-06 would resonate with air aficionados. Robert Hoge called the O-04 design “iconic” in its depiction of an aerial dogfight, but suggested dropping out the detail of the countryside.

After discussion and voting, there was strong preference to use reverse R-06 as the medal’s obverse, with its design reduced to the main elements and inscriptions moved to the reverse. Design R-08, showing a military aviator insignia, is our recommendation for the reverse.

The Marine Corps Silver Medal

WWI-2018-silver-medals-Marines

For me and for several other committee members, reverse R-05 stood out as a dramatic depiction of a U.S. Marine in World War I combat. A “Devil Dog” (as the Germans called the Marines) is shown in the heat of battle in Belleau Wood. Having run out of ammunition, he overpowers a German machine-gun nest using his rifle as a bludgeon. This design includes the inscription SEMPER FIDELIS, “Always Faithful,” the USMC motto. Robert Hoge also called out R-05 as a strong design for the obverse, and Donald Scarinci said, “If this were a coin, it would be awesome”—noting that “There are a lot of designs that would be nice as coins” while not succeeding as medals. “O-06 is more medal-like,” he said, referring to a design showing a helmet set behind the Marine Corps emblem.

The Marine Corps historians who were present at the meeting noted that the R-05 scene is “Hollywoodized,” and that such hand-to-hand combat was rare at Belleau Wood. They emphasized the significance of that particular battle: the important Allied victory at Belleau Wood is intrinsically connected to the Marine Corps, and in fact the region remains a pilgrimage site for U.S. Marines a hundred years later. For this reason, reverse design R-01, with its contemplative scene of one Marine standing guard in the war-blasted woods, while another kneels to pay respect to their fallen comrades, is their preferred design.

Heidi Wastweet noted that, after a quick flip through the entire design portfolio, Marine Corps reverse R-05 was the only one that mentally stayed with her. She praised its depiction of the brutality and courage of war. From a sculpting and production perspective, she warned against the design’s lettering running over the soldier’s leg, calling it “very detracting and technically difficult.” She also noted that the relief of obverse O-06 would have to be shallow, and that collectors want greater depth than it would afford.

After more discussion of simplifying the elements of R-01 by moving some inscriptions to the reverse, our recommendation is for R-01 to be used for the obverse and R-06 for the reverse.

The Coast Guard Silver Medal

WWI-2018-silver-medals-Coast-Guard

The Coast Guard sketches included a mixture of patriotic symbolism (with Miss Liberty guiding a guardsman to his destiny and duty), ships at sea, and officers and men in action. One of the most dynamic designs is O-04, showing a lifeboat from the cutter Seneca riding a wave in heavy seas as it moves toward the torpedoed steamship Wellington. Coast Guardsmen in the lifeboat have sighted men in the water and are on their way to rescue them. This was a preferred design for many committee members (including myself). Dr. William Thiesen, a Coast Guard historian who phoned in to the meeting, agreed with this preference, noting the importance of rescue missions in the Guard’s wartime functions (in addition to beach and coast patrol).

Herman Viola emphasized the importance of the Coast Guard cutter Tampa, which was sunk by a German U-boat with the loss of 115 men—the war’s single largest loss of life in combat for naval operations. REMEMBER THE TAMPA is an inscription on two of the obverse designs, O-03 and O-04.

Our recommendation is for obverse O-04 to be combined with the World War I–era Coast Guard emblem of reverse R-04.

The Future of the World War I Silver Medals

Before the CCAC meeting, Mint staff had already met with subject-matter experts from each military branch to discuss themes and historical accuracy. The CCAC also talked about the World War I medals in our March 2016 meeting in Washington. It was these early discussions that led to the design proposals we reviewed in March 2017. Now the Mint’s artists will take the guidance of the Commission of Fine Arts, and of the CCAC, in addition to the comments of military representatives shared in our meetings this week, and fine-tune their designs. If our committee motion is accepted, a sixth medal representing the Home Front will be added to the five military pieces. Ultimately the secretary of the Treasury has final approval over the designs of U.S. coins and medals.

The World War I medals will accompany the release of the 2018 World War I American Veterans Centennial silver dollar.   ❑

Dennis Tucker is the publisher at Whitman Publishing, LLC, and a member of the Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee.


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Comments

  1. cagcrisp says

    Gold PM Fix $1,251.10

    There WILL be a Gold price Increase this afternoon…

    IF Gold stays at Current level the 2017 HR will be $1,690.00…

  2. cagcrisp says

    “He also wondered if the price point for a dollar-and-medal package—$100 or more—might be too high for many collectors.”

    IF you sell a dollar and 1 medal for $100 or more, Yes you will be “too high for many collectors”…

  3. Brad says

    Ha! The Lady Bird Johnson proof coin is “sold out” now. So much for the prediction “The 96 Jackie Kennedys will sell out before the 8 Lady Bird Johnsons do.”

    I know, I know. Rick probably bought them himself, just to prove a point. Just kidding, Rick. 🙂

  4. Rick says

    Brad, thanks for pointing it out. It was sold out before I was ready to pull the trigger:)

  5. Old Big Bird says

    I would like to thank all of those who posted about the ASE “S” in the Congratulation Set 2017
    I have set up a reminder for 04/04. Without all of your input I might not have been aware of this item.
    This is one of the main reasons I read this blog. There is always things to learn.

    Why the mint is so quite about such an item just frosts me.

    So thanks to one and all

  6. Old Big Bird says

    I did place a call to the USM to ask how many ASE are included in the 186 BULK sales.
    The poor young lady was having difficulty trying to come up with and answer.
    Most time BULK is never shown in the sales number and would mean bags or pallets.
    Only bulk customer can place BULK orders and the order has to be $5,000.00 or more and the
    buyer has to belong in the bulk program. The best answer I got was that there was 186 bulk orders.
    How many pieces that means how knows except the US Mint.
    Perhaps that should have never been listed. We will see if it is still there next week

  7. earthling says

    Any chance a bunch of ” Bird Watchers” bought the “Lady Bird” Coins? Can’t imagine who else – besides die hard Texans. Do Texans love the Bird Lady that much? I do remember Lady being against Litter. That was a really good thing at the time. Too bad someone else can’t do another anti- litter campaign. The USA needs a refresher on dumping trash on the streets.

  8. Brad says

    Yeah, I certainly wasn’t aware of the ASE in the Congratulations Set being an “S” coin. This could be the first step in a bone that the Mint may be throwing us this year, if they stick to the 2015 Coin & Chronicles production philosophy. The 2016 Congratulations Set hasn’t even sold 3,000 units yet. Can you imagine if there was an ASE coin with a sub-5,000 mintage?

    I know, I know. I’m dreaming. Depending on how many others are aware of the fact that this is NOT the “same old, same old” Congratulations Set that’s been offered in past years, sales could be much more robust. The Mint would then produce more, since they wouldn’t want to leave that much money on the table. However, as someone else pointed out, the added language on the product page of “get them while supplies last” gives hope that it will be somewhat limited.

    I’m in for a few, just in case. What the heck, I’ve blown money on worse things!

  9. Brad says

    That product limit was “none” just a short while ago. I wonder if the household ordering limit will change from “none” as well?

  10. Brad says

    How do you turn a product from a <3,000 unit seller to a 75,000 unit seller? Make the coin in it different than the "plain vanilla" coin offered elsewhere! However, will the coin be offered in other products this year as well? Decisions, decisions.

  11. Dustyroads says

    Thanks A&L Futures for noticing that! That’s a quick sell out for sure.

    Now the next logical question is, where else can this ASE show up?

  12. cagcrisp says

    @Dustyroads, “Now the next logical question is, where else can this ASE show up?”

    Can you say LESPS?…

  13. says

    1. LESPS

    2. A Special unannounced 225th Anniversary Coin Set

    3. A dual coin special set

    4. An ASE ‘S’ & HR Silver Coin Set

    Truth be told, last night I was REALLY EXCITED and was inclined to buy 100 sets+ at 12:01, not so much now, I’m in for a couple.

    With a Product Limit of 75,000, this coin will sell out on Day One..,

    If it’s limited to 75,000, you’re looking at #2..,

    Though you have to ask.., where else might it show up again..,

    1. LESPS

    2. A Special unannounced 225th Anniversary Coin Set

    3. A dual coin special set

    4. An ASE ‘S’ & HR Silver Coin Set

    Just like 2012, and else where. The mint is full of sneaky tricks without any accountability nor explanation offered.

    You small time collectors like me, you had better line up at 12:01 as this will sell out Day 1 – The Big Boys will ensure it!

    This is a MCM and Texasage dream – they will buy them all, grade them all, and dump them all.

    If you want one, show up early, just don’t get on here and bitch like a little girl that you didn’t get one after reading this.., Cheers! 😃

    Oh, and for the record, I will strip my two from the packaging and place them in display treys to keep my ‘unique’ ASE collection current.

  14. Brad says

    KCSO,

    You can probably scratch the “S” ASE from the LESPS, as they have always used the “W” ASE in that one and will likely continue to do so. No guarantees though, since prior to this year they had always used the “W” in the Congratulations Set, too. Your other suggestions are definite possibilities, though!

  15. says

    Last Comment –

    It AMAZES me that most that post here do not bother to read the other’s posts. Amazing.

    It’s just odd, and almost systematic.

    Makes you wonder what else they miss in any given day.

    Oh well, Happy Collecting.

    And you Old Timers better be on the mint’s website at 12:00 on Tuesday, 04 April.., or you ain’t getting one!

    Just a friendly heads-up Brothers.

  16. earthling says

    Jackie Kennedy BU – 91 LEFT!

    Is this the bigger news?

    Time will tell – as the saying goes !

    😉

  17. Erik H says

    75k, and I could have taken the day off. Too late now. My only hope is if those on this blog can keep it to themselves for a few more days.

  18. Dustyroads says

    Dennis,

    Thank you for the write up. I enjoyed listening to the meeting and hearing yours and others opinions. I’m glad that everyone was prepared with a statement, even if it was a simple comment such as Mr. Jabbar’s. I’m very glad that the members of the CCAC are as tough on the designs as I hoped you all would be.

  19. says

    Brad, noted, though this is CLEARLY – REVENUE DRIVEN.

    I personally don’t rule anything out,
    When the motive is REVENUE DRIVEN.

    Like you partner, I’ve been in Corporate America too long, & you driving the books, know exactly what I mean! Cheers!

  20. earthling says

    Hmmm…..

    Refresh my memory here ….. but wasn’t it the Jackie Kennedy FS Golds where it went IMMEDIATELY to Unavailable .. at the opening bell?

    Could be deja vue…. all over again. 😦

  21. Larry says

    If all they make of the S Eagle is 75K, it will probably be a decent performer in the future.If my memory serves me, it would make it the second rarest American Silver Eagle behind the 1995 W. The 2011 Anniversary Eagles were 100K, and they did OK.
    So I guess it is worth getting one or two. Even if they make more than 75K, would still make a good gift.

  22. cagcrisp says

    You guys Will add $4.1 million in Revenue to the Mint’s coffers that normally wouldn’t be there.

    Thanks…

    (And…I own eBay stock…SO…Thanks Again)…

  23. Dustyroads says

    Larry,

    Actually, 75,000 is a very good number, AND it would be a very, very big burn if the USM surprised everyone later with another offering stripping that number from everyone who purchased the sets.

    Lets all hope the USM has some dignity.

  24. Dustyroads says

    “You guys Will add $4.1 million in Revenue to the Mint’s coffers that normally wouldn’t be there.

    Thanks…”

    If that’s how much money the USM makes, then I must be a millionaire.

  25. says

    Thanks Cag for the reminder, I can now afford 164 shares of eBay stock.
    Okay, off my soap box now, back work

  26. cagcrisp says

    2017 Congratulations Set…

    Congratulations…you’ve just turned an item that sales a Minimum number each and every year into an item that will be Looking for A Secondary home for about 70,000 units.

    To Flip 70k…that’s going to be interesting.

    There has NEVER been a Mint item that will be purchased to Flip more than this item.

    Congratulations.

    …SO…What you really looking at is sales of 145,000. 75,000 on the Primary market and 70,000 on the Secondary market.

    Congratulations…

  27. TomP. in Va says

    Committee member Jeanne Stevens-Sollman posed a question to the Mint: “What
    are we trying to achieve” ? What was the Mint’s response?
    Also, is there a link to the proposed offerings?
    The subject is the Armed Services contribution, involvement and sacrifice in the ‘War to End All Wars’, a designation to reflect the horror of the first modern multi-nation warfare. The disgust with the number of casualties and conditions of trench, heavy artillery and poison gas warfare led to the attempted creation of the League of Nations and to our own Peace Dollar.

    The poor Army. Wasn’t a soldier in WW1 period uniform represented in the $5 gold Army commemorative coin of a few years past (along with others)?

    “To me, O-03, showing a gas mask, bayonet, shovel, barbed wire, and other tools, spoke too much of the technical aspects of battle, rather than the human side of the conflict. Erik Jansen described it as a frankly disturbing tableau showing “the horrors of war.”.”
    So the Navy, Coast Guard and (Army) Air Corps can display their ‘tools’ of warfare. More glamorous? The tools can show the human side of what was endured, That gives the necessity of the series…to remember.
    My Grandpa served and was shot in the hip the day before the war ended Nov.11. Still recovering, he borrowed a horse in Clifton Forge, Va. and rode the forty miles to the family farm. He carried that bullet in his hip to the day he died in 1971. Grandpa claimed he could predict weather changes and rain by it ‘acting up’, a useful ability for a farmer. He was a quiet man, not prone to talking much. Family told me he had endured poison gas attacks and when I returned from Nam, I tried to draw him out on the subject by describing my experience with a CS gas mortar attack, trying to pin us down until the sapper reached us(only to be blocked by a roll of concertina wire placed two days before. Grandpa still couldn’t talk, the memories too painful. Needless to say, I will be buying.

  28. Dustyroads says

    TomP. in Va, Thanks for sharing. Real experiences like the ones I read about war experiences are moving. I’m more grateful for what we have every time I read them.

  29. A&L Futures says

    Well, that ends that debate….

    Just received this from the U.S. Mint

    WASHINGTON – The United States Mint will accept orders for the 2017 Congratulations Set (product code 17RF) starting on April 4 at noon Eastern Time (ET).

    Priced at $54.95, this set features for the first time ever an American Eagle One Ounce Silver Proof Coin bearing the “S” mint mark of the San Francisco Mint. The coin is encapsulated and mounted in an attractive presentation folder adorned with black, gold, and silver ribbon curls to add a festive and elegant flair. A Certificate of Authenticity is printed on the back of the folder, while coin specifications are printed on the back of the sleeve. The Product Limit is 75,000. Later this year, the American Eagle One Ounce Silver Proof Coin with the “S” mint mark from the San Francisco Mint will be available as part of the 2017 Limited Edition Silver Proof Set.

    Orders will be accepted at https://catalog.usmint.gov/ and at 1-800-USA-MINT (872-6468). Hearing- and speech-impaired customers with TTY equipment may order at 1-888-321-MINT. Information on shipping options is available at https://catalog.usmint.gov/customer-service/shipping.html.

  30. Lev says

    If the mint doesn’t put some kind of household limit on the Congratulation Set one organization could buy all

  31. A&L Futures says

    Just received this from the U.S. Mint
    WASHINGTON – The United States Mint will accept orders for the 2017 Congratulations Set (product code 17RF) starting on April 4 at noon Eastern Time (ET).
    Priced at $54.95, this set features for the first time ever an American Eagle One Ounce Silver Proof Coin bearing the “S” mint mark of the San Francisco Mint. The coin is encapsulated and mounted in an attractive presentation folder adorned with black, gold, and silver ribbon curls to add a festive and elegant flair. A Certificate of Authenticity is printed on the back of the folder, while coin specifications are printed on the back of the sleeve. The Product Limit is 75,000. Later this year, the American Eagle One Ounce Silver Proof Coin with the “S” mint mark from the San Francisco Mint will be available as part of the 2017 Limited Edition Silver Proof Set.

  32. Hidalgo says

    WASHINGTON – The United States Mint will accept orders for the 2017 Congratulations Set (product code 17RF) starting on April 4 at noon Eastern Time (ET).

    Priced at $54.95, this set features for the first time ever an American Eagle One Ounce Silver Proof Coin bearing the “S” mint mark of the San Francisco Mint. The coin is encapsulated and mounted in an attractive presentation folder adorned with black, gold, and silver ribbon curls to add a festive and elegant flair. A Certificate of Authenticity is printed on the back of the folder, while coin specifications are printed on the back of the sleeve. The Product Limit is 75,000. Later this year, the American Eagle One Ounce Silver Proof Coin with the “S” mint mark from the San Francisco Mint will be available as part of the 2017 Limited Edition Silver Proof Set.

  33. says

    No $&I+!!!!!

    Priced at $54.95, this set features for the first time ever an American Eagle One Ounce Silver Proof Coin bearing the “S” mint mark of the San Francisco Mint. The coin is encapsulated and mounted in an attractive presentation folder adorned with black, gold, and silver ribbon curls to add a festive and elegant flair. A Certificate of Authenticity is printed on the back of the folder, while coin specifications are printed on the back of the sleeve. The Product Limit is 75,000. Later this year, the American Eagle One Ounce Silver Proof Coin with the “S” mint mark from the San Francisco Mint will be available as part of the 2017 Limited Edition Silver Proof Set.

  34. says

    Well, there goes the fun and hot air out of this one! 💩

    Until next time!

    @ Hawkeye Larry – great catch though, seriously – thanks for bringing it to our attention.

    I enjoyed the rush over the past 18 hours.

    Perhaps the positive in this is that they’ll be more surprises this year, though you may want to keep them to yourself next time when you spot them! 😉 LoL…, Best of luck

  35. TemplePriestess says

    If the mint comes up with interesting designs at a reasonable price people will buy metals, also make them lower mintages for collectors. Why do they not understand this approach to marketing there products?

  36. says

    Brad.., buddy, fellow Gen X’er..,
    I think you can relate, this offering is about Greed, & I think Gordon Gekko is behind this release
    🤑

  37. says

    TomP. in Va –

    I just saw your post, & very touched by it. You should post more and share those memories and experiences as the WWI Comm gains momentum.

    Just a FYI – there’s a lot of Veterans on this blog and they appreciate the sharing of those memories.

    If it matters, I reside in ole Sic Semper Tyrannis and very dialed into the care that our wounded warriors are receiving at Walter Reed and it’s very impressive which gives me comfort.

  38. Louis Golino, Author says

    Tthe LESPS are normally limited to 50K, so 50 plus 75 = 125K max for the 2017-S ASE proof. That is unless they sell it in another product, or up the LESPS mintage, that is still a very lower number around the 3rd lowest. I’m still excited and in for a few. I can use the excitement too because I have been bored with the offerings this year so far, but the coming months will be better

    guess I better not write about it, though I am sure someone will. I will do my part to keep it quiet. then after it sells out I will pump the hell out of it! Just kidding!

    Also, as far as I know the 225th set is the enhanced unc set coming later this year. I have said that here many times, but looks like someone did not read my posts closely………

  39. says

    HR Liberty –

    “To maximize availability of this historic coin to the public, the Mint is not imposing a household order limit. The Mint will also accept orders at its sales counters in Washington, DC; Philadelphia; and Denver. Sales will be open to all members of the public, including dealers. Mintage is limited to 100,000 units.”

    Best to do a drive by first. 😉

  40. joe#2 says

    Louis, Hello. In your opinion, How is the 2017 proof Australia Southern Sky .9999 1 ounce gold coin doing? Thanks

  41. cagcrisp says

    I’m Very glad that the Mint showed more transparency with this offering and better informed decisions can be made…

  42. cagcrisp says

    @KCSO….LOL!!!!

    “To maximize availability of this historic coin to the public, the Mint is not imposing a household order limit. ”

    In the case of the Standing Liberty Quarter (with the SAME 100,000 mintage limit ) the Mint chose the following course:

    To maximize availability of this historic coin to the public, the Mint is imposiing a HHL of ONE…

    …SO…Did the Mint finally learn their lesson? OR is the Mint just Acknowledging that a mintages of 100,000 is TOO high and they need all the sales they can get on LAUNCH? …

  43. Dustyroads says

    Louis, You’re right about that. 125 is still a relatively small number. Although, I think everyone should not expect it to be any lower. I would like to believe the sets will not sell out, but that’s pretty much a pipe dream. I guess this cags predictions coming to fruition, lower and lower mintages. Or, I could read the lower mintages as the winding down of the Walking Liberty ASE. Possibly something new on the drawing board.

  44. Erik H says

    Louis, I was really hoping that nobody would post the obvious and the MNB regular’s would just do the math and make an educated decision if they should buy or not.

    125k is still low enough to flip and make a few buck’s IMO. The mint shouldn’t have posted a mintage limit and let the speculators sink or swim. Now it’s pretty much a sell out item unless they add a “low” house hold limit.

  45. Louis Golino, Author says

    @joe #2- We may need to wait a bit on this one to see. APMEX still has 65 left. Maybe after that it will bump up. Also I see gold going higher, which will help.

  46. Louis Golino, Author says

    @Erik H- I still think this may turn out like the first enhanced unc Sac if the media does not point it out. I see nothing. I hear nothing. I know nothing!

  47. You Can't See Me says

    Between flippers, early release, first strike, coin vault and big dealers, the “S” Congratulations Eagle will sell out fast. Regardless of availability in a bigger set.
    I give it 10 minutes tops.

  48. sharks2th says

    “To maximize availability of this historic coin to the public, the Mint is not imposing a household order limit. ”

    This statement is the most disingenuous BS I have ever seen the mint write. How can you make the same statement twice with “no limit” in one case and a “limit of one” in the other case? One is obviously a false statement and an attempt meet a sales quota. You don’t maximize availability with an unlimited HHL. It looks like the mint is already in panic mode and the coin hasn’t even been released yet. As the sharks on shark tank say, “I’m out” on this item.

    At least they are being honest on the ASE proofs and how they will be available.

  49. earthling says

    “To maximize availability of this historic coin to the public, the Mint is not imposing a household order limit. ”

    To maximize availability to ” Granny – Home Shopping Fan” the Mint plans to make a trainload of these rare treasures available to ” you know who”. They mighty even sell 97% of the mintage to those firms before offering a few crumbs to the small fry.

    Money talks, bullmess walks.

  50. DBR says

    Pretty nice about the “S” mint marked 2017 ASE. I would add this offering to the 2017 “P” Lincoln cent.

    The mint is being cheeky. I would expect more playful offerings from the U. S. Mint this 225th anniversary year. Keep your eyes open and read and scrutinize the products and marketing verbiage. Thank you to those who noticed the “S” ASE in the Congratulations Set.

    I kind of like these surprises. I’m getting over my lack of enthusiasm for the HR Liberty $100 coin, but purchasing more of the 100th anniversary Centennial designs of the gold Standing Liberty quarter and the WLH. I just like em.

    Many have said here on MNB that 2017 looks like a lackluster year for offerings, that’s why I’m expecting more 225th anniversary year surprises FOR THE COLLECTORS.

    I hope the mint releases limited edition coins into general circulation to get people looking at their change again. Didn’t they do that in 1976 with a limited edition coin in a Wheaties cereal box?

    Fun fun!

  51. J. Miller says

    OHHHHHHH…what if they have packaging problems, like they did in 2015, and don’t release them 🙂
    Now that would be great if they had to melt the remaining pieces and only the 75,000 sets sold.
    Yea, right 😉

  52. cagcrisp says

    Random thoughts on the 2017 HR with Launch Day One Week from Today…

    • Like the country in general, the Likes vs. Dislikes are Split
    • The majority that like this coin will Not purchase this coin
    • The majority that can Afford this coin will Not purchase this coin
    • Demographics work Against this coin
    • A failure of the 2017 HR puts the remaining Proposed HRs in jeopardy
    • The Mint is like the Trump administration, it needs a Win
    • You only have One day to get Mintage and HHL’s correct
    • The stated Mintage is 60,000 to High
    • The Final mintage will be determined by how many are Minted in 2017
    • With a mintage of 100,000 this coin will be Pulled by the Mint; it will never sell out
    • With a mintage of 50,000 this coin had a Chance of selling out in Two years
    • The Mint made the Wise decision to have No house hold limits
    • Dealers will Not participate with this coin as much as they did in 2015
    • Foreign buyers will Not participate with this coin as much as they did in 2015
    • Like the 2015 HR, this coin is Not a flippable coin
    • $1,640-$1,690 is a Lot to pay for 1 oz. of Gold when spot Gold is ~ $1,250.00
    • When a person with money meets a person with experience, the person with experience will get the money and the person with money will get an experience; if you Buy you will get an experience
    • I Like the Design of the 2017 HR
    • I think the coin has All the making of a Classical design
    • I purchased 8 of the 2015 HRs
    • I will Not be a purchaser of the 2017 HR

  53. earthling says

    *** on the subject of the 2017 HR Gold Coin***

    I really like the reverse of the Coin.

    I don’t like the cost of the Coin.

    I will keep images of the Coins Reverse stored in my Phone.

    Several times a year I’ll take a look at the 2017 HR images ( of the reverse )

    When the Coin becomes available at a much lower cost ( after Gold drops much lower) I might buy one , one day

    😊

  54. says

    Well, with that..,

    It’s time for a good ole game of ’17 High Relief Guesstimate!

    For Starters –

    1st Day Sales: 16,500

    1st Week Sales: 21,750

  55. earthling says

    **

    It’s been my experience that if the frontview isn’t so hot, the rearview is usually ( butt not always) OK.

    😼

  56. Old Big Bird says

    Folks if you read the USM site on the ASE “S” it states product limit 75,000
    But the MINTAGE LIMIT is none. So more will be coming out in a different product item number.
    So what will the real mintage number be?????

  57. The Real "Cool" Brad says

    I am planning on buying a few of the congratulations sets, in the hopes there is another fiasco with the LESPS this year. In any case, unless they add it to another product, or they really up the mintage for the LESPS, the combined total should be around 125k.

  58. Old Big Bird says

    @achmed – key words from that post

    “Tthe LESPS are normally limited to 50K, so 50 plus 75 = 125K max for the 2017-S ASE proof. ”

    Key words “Normally limited to 50K ”

    With the USM anything is possible.

  59. JSM says

    I don’t think people should rule out a higher mintage for LESPS. The mint is desperate for revenue and will be even more so after the 2017 Liberty Gold coin flops.

  60. data dave says

    I’m not buying the 2017 HR but for those considering I am sure the price on a MS69 version will be low at first. A lot of buyers are getting them graded and looking for the MS70 perfect specimen. They will be dumping the 69s on ebay. Of course if you want OGP buy from the mint. The math doesn’t work to flip this coin and it is out of my price range.

  61. cagcrisp says

    @KCSO,

    “Well, with that..,

    It’s time for a good ole game of ’17 High Relief Guesstimate!

    For Starters –

    1st Day Sales: 16,500

    1st Week Sales: 21,750”

    hmmmm…..

    2015 HR

    Launch Day sales (the only day that matters) 36,686
    Launch week sales 41,930

    …SO…Your Launch Day sales are 45% of 2015
    …SO…Your Launch Week sales are 52% of 2015

    For some reason the number 25,000 sticks in my head.

    …SO…I will go with 23,500 for Launch Day sales
    …SO…I will go with 25,000 for Launch week sales…

  62. Dustyroads says

    I’ve intentionally not mentioned it, but I just happen to have a figure in my head. I hate to even mention it now because it goes against the grain so much and low balls the the prospect for even a dismal release, but I’ll through it out there. I’m only seeing 7,500 first day sales.

  63. data dave says

    I’m always wrong on these guessing games but I’ll say 30K first day and 35K first week. And 40K end of year.

  64. cagcrisp says

    @Dustyroads, Bold Prediction. I have no problem with anyone that has the cajonas to Make a Prediction.

    The problem I have is Monday Morning quarterbacks that DON’T…

  65. says

    @ Cag – that’s correct, I was at 27-29k at the beginning of the year, not so much now.

    USM has totally floundered on the opportunity to market and advertise this release since 12 January..,

    06 April ’17 – from here on out, I will affectionately refer to it a Collector Base Appreciation Day!

    The USM will either have the Base onboard.., or it will not..,

    Hence, Collector Base Appreciation Day for the US Mint. 😉

    You agree?

  66. cagcrisp says

    Predictions for Launch Day and Launch Week sales for the 2017 HR…

    KCSO-Day 16,500
    KCSO-Week 21,750

    cagcrisp-Day 23,500
    cagcrisp-Week 25,000

    Dustyroads-Day 7,500

    data dave-Day 30,000
    data dave-Week 35,000
    data dave- End of Year 40,000

  67. earthling says

    The unknown factor is the low mintage First Day Slabber Corp. How many want the First Day Rare Slabs? Take these out there are very few sales of this coin. Throw them in the game and you get 17,000 first day sales.

    I think there will be a repeat of the Jackie Kennedy shutdown though. The big mass slabber firms probably already got their Coins in with the TPG’s getting their merchandise prepped already.

    It’s all about the money. Got to move this stuff out in the few days that anyone still even thinks about it.

  68. cagcrisp says

    Predictions for Launch Day and Launch Week sales for the 2017 HR…

    KCSO-Day 16,500
    KCSO-Week 21,750

    cagcrisp-Day 23,500
    cagcrisp-Week 25,000

    Dustyroads-Day 7,500

    data dave-Day 30,000
    data dave-Week 35,000
    data dave- End of Year 40,000

    earthling –Day 17,000
    earthling-Week 21,000

  69. Mintman says

    2017-S first strike eligible coins will only be from the congratulations set
    Keep this in mind
    Coins offered later in the year won’t be eligible

  70. cagcrisp says

    I’ve always proposed that the Mint operate More like a business. The S mint mark on the Congratulations set And the LESPS is just that, A wise marketing decision.

    Repeat Repeat Repeat.

    EVERY year that the Mint does this it receives an Additional $3.8 million in Revenue. The W mint mark on the Congratulations set just languishes Year after Year.

    Now we have Guaranteed a SO Year after Year ( or until the secondary market says it’s no longer worth it).

    I take my Hot off to the Mint employee that came up with this Marketing idea…

  71. Mr. Kairu says

    I have always enjoyed reading about the guesstimates on the blog here, and this time I will participate on the HR offering… I am guessing 21,000 first day and 23,000 first week sales. Also, I may purchase a congrats set or two. It works out since my brother just got married this past weekend too!

  72. Donald says

    I think the 2017 congratulations set has taken on a new meaning: The Mint offers its congratulations that you were lucky enough to successfully order one or more of the 2017 “S” Proof American Silver Eagles before they sold out in 10 minutes.

  73. earthling says

    About that Congrats Set………

    Better order as heavy as you can go …. cause when the no-S SAE’s start showing up…. you don’t wanna be on the outside looking in..

    😣

  74. cagcrisp says

    Predictions for Launch Day and Launch Week sales for the 2017 HR…

    KCSO-Day 16,500
    KCSO-Week 21,750

    cagcrisp-Day 23,500
    cagcrisp-Week 25,000

    Dustyroads-Day 7,500

    data dave-Day 30,000
    data dave-Week 35,000
    data dave-End of Year 40,000

    earthling-Day 17,000
    earthling-Week 21,000
    earthling-2017 46,000
    earthling-2018 57,000

    Mr. Kairu-Day 21,000
    Mr. Kairu-Week 23,000

  75. Mintman says

    Dusty roads
    As long as they are unopened congratulations set boxes
    If offered later this year in the LEPS, those S mint proofs will not be eligible, as they were offered in the congratulations set earlier in the year

  76. baldwin says

    Just wondering aloud… the annual coin set could have the S Proof in it. They could repeat 2011 and create a 5 coin set. They could repeat 2012/2013 and have a 2 coin set. I am thinking there are a lot of variables to be had with the S ASE this year and each one will try to grab marketing money, and take away from each other.

  77. baldwin says

    Mintman… except the LEPS is also being sold as a different set and the graders like to issue special sets for cash…

  78. Donald says

    Don’t drive yourself nuts trying to figure out the possible permutatins/combinations/variations in regard to how the ’17 “S” ASE Proof may be offered this year. The clever, new marketing guy at the Mint has already done this. Of course he has the best interests of collectors in mind.

  79. says

    Okay folks,

    Don’t be shy, don’t be nervous..,

    Put Cag to work!

    And throw out your best educated guess on the HR Liberty sales figures

    It’s very interesting to see what folks think on sales.., & there’s NO wrong answer!

  80. says

    Okay folks,

    Don’t be shy, don’t be nervous..,

    Put Cag to work!

    And throw out your best educated guess on the HR Liberty sales figures

    It’s very interesting to see what folks think on sales.., & there’s NO wrong answer!

    No harm, no foul.., let’s let’s hear’em!

  81. mintman says

    @Baldwin
    The LEPS will have a S Mint Proof ASE, however, it will not be eligible for First Strile labeling.
    The LEPS S Mint Proof ASE can have a label attributing it to the LEPS, but it wont be First Strike.
    The Congratulations set S Mint Proof ASE will be the only S Mint Proof ASE this year eligible for First Strike labeling, unless of course another unknown set or the coin is offered separately within 30 days of delivery of the Congratulations set S Mint Proof.

  82. earthling says

    Hurry hurry hurry…. step right up. Get yer minty fresh Jackie while you still can….

    Jackie Kennedy BU First Spouse Gold – 88 left

  83. sharks2th says

    2017 HR
    1st day – 9,218
    1st week – 11,342

    Since this is waaay overpriced, it could be even lower sales.

  84. cagcrisp says

    Predictions for Launch Day and Launch Week sales for the 2017 HR…

    KCSO-Day 16,500
    KCSO-Week 21,750

    cagcrisp-Day 23,500
    cagcrisp-Week 25,000

    Dustyroads-Day 7,500

    data dave-Day 30,000
    data dave-Week 35,000
    data dave-End of Year 40,000

    earthling-Day 17,000
    earthling-Week 21,000
    earthling-2017 46,000
    earthling-2018 57,000

    Mr. Kairu-Day 21,000
    Mr. Kairu-Week 23,000

    SILKY-Day 5,000
    SILKY-Week 11,000

    Sith-Day 38,000
    Sith-Week 44,000

    sharks2th-Day 9,218
    sharks2th-Week 11,342

    joe#2-Day 27,000
    joe#2-Week 35,000

  85. Mintman says

    HR gold will die on the vine
    As for the First Haags–even if they sold sub 1000 coins the upside is limited due to a lack of DEMAND

  86. cagcrisp says

    Predictions for Launch Day and Launch Week sales for the 2017 HR…

    KCSO-Day 16,500
    KCSO-Week 21,750

    cagcrisp-Day 23,500
    cagcrisp-Week 25,000

    Dustyroads-Day 7,500

    data dave-Day 30,000
    data dave-Week 35,000
    data dave-End of Year 40,000

    earthling-Day 17,000
    earthling-Week 21,000
    earthling-2017 46,000
    earthling-2018 57,000

    Mr. Kairu-Day 21,000
    Mr. Kairu-Week 23,000

    SILKY-Day 5,000
    SILKY-Week 11,000

    Sith-Day 38,000
    Sith-Week 44,000

    sharks2th-Day 9,218
    sharks2th-Week 11,342

    joe#2-Day 27,000
    joe#2-Week 35,000

    Stipey-Day 18,000
    Stipey-Week 21,000

  87. AZ Dan says

    17CB still seems like the option to purchase if one is going to buy the Boys Town Gold coin. The mintage for the uncirculated is much lower than the the one for the proof (17CA & 17CG).

  88. Joe M. says

    2017 HR Gold predictions biased by my not wanting this over-priced “politically-correct” UGLY piece.
    15,000 first day
    18,000 first week
    20,000 first year
    Less than 23,000 until pulled in 2019 😉

  89. says

    MAY
    02
    2017

    Frederic Douglass National Historic Site 2017 Uncirculated Five Ounce Silver Coin

    MAY
    11
    2017

    American Buffalo 2017 One Ounce Gold Proof Coin

    MAY
    17
    2017

    Uncirculated Coin Set 2017

  90. cagcrisp says

    Predictions for Launch Day and Launch Week sales for the 2017 HR…

    KCSO-Day 16,500
    KCSO-Week 21,750

    cagcrisp-Day 23,500
    cagcrisp-Week 25,000

    Dustyroads-Day 7,500

    data dave-Day 30,000
    data dave-Week 35,000
    data dave-End of Year 40,000

    earthling-Day 17,000
    earthling-Week 21,000
    earthling-2017 46,000
    earthling-2018 57,000

    Mr. Kairu-Day 21,000
    Mr. Kairu-Week 23,000

    SILKY-Day 5,000
    SILKY-Week 11,000

    Sith-Day 38,000
    Sith-Week 44,000

    sharks2th-Day 9,218
    sharks2th-Week 11,342

    joe#2-Day 27,000
    joe#2-Week 35,000

    Stipey-Day 18,000
    Stipey-Week 21,000

    Mattarch-Day 6,800
    Mattarch-Week 9,760

    Montana John-Day 4,750
    Montana John-Week 7,450

    DBR-Day 7,700
    DBR-Week 18,000

    Joe M.-Day 15,000
    Joe M.-Week 18,000
    Joe M.-2017 20,000
    Joe M.- <23,000 pulled in 2019

    felson-Day 28,000
    felson-Week 31,500

  91. cagcrisp says

    Predictions for Launch Day and Launch Week sales for the 2017 HR…

    KCSO-Day 16,500
    KCSO-Week 21,750

    cagcrisp-Day 23,500
    cagcrisp-Week 25,000

    Dustyroads-Day 7,500

    data dave-Day 30,000
    data dave-Week 35,000
    data dave-End of Year 40,000

    earthling-Day 17,000
    earthling-Week 21,000
    earthling-2017 46,000
    earthling-2018 57,000

    Mr. Kairu-Day 21,000
    Mr. Kairu-Week 23,000

    SILKY-Day 5,000
    SILKY-Week 11,000

    Sith-Day 38,000
    Sith-Week 44,000

    sharks2th-Day 9,218
    sharks2th-Week 11,342

    joe#2-Day 27,000
    joe#2-Week 35,000

    Stipey-Day 18,000
    Stipey-Week 21,000

    Mattarch-Day 6,800
    Mattarch-Week 9,760

    Montana John-Day 4,750
    Montana John-Week 7,450

    DBR-Day 7,700
    DBR-Week 18,000

    Joe M.-Day 15,000
    Joe M.-Week 18,000
    Joe M.-2017 20,000
    Joe M.- <23,000 pulled in 2019

    felson-Day 28,000
    felson-Week 31,500

    zephin-Day 20,100
    zephin-Week 22,100
    zephin-2017 28,100

  92. says

    2017 Silver Krugerrand’s –

    1. South African rand pummeled as finance minister fired

    The rand sank as much as 2.6% against the dollar on Friday, before paring losses, as South African President Jacob Zuma announced a cabinet shuffle, firing Finance Minister Pravin Gordhan and replacing him with Home Affairs Minister Malusi Gigaba along with various other ministers and their deputies.

    Speculation of the move this week has sent the South African currency reeling with the rand on track for a weekly loss of close to 7%.

    Political uncertainty is a hot topic for markets as concern over U.S. President Donald Trump’s ability to move forward with tax reforms, infrastructure spending and deregulation was put into question by his failure last week to repeal and replace the country’s healthcare system.

    Europe is also in the spotlight as the U.K. officially began the process to exit the European Union last Wednesday and investors looked ahead to key elections in France and Germany later this year.

    Wonder if MCM or GovMint will pass along any of the savings / currency profits on to us, in the form of lower Silver Krug prices???

    HAHAHA

  93. Old Big Bird says

    Back to an older topic the new item listed in the USM Sales figures as of 03/26/17.

    They showed a new item # 17EA042 2017 Am Eagle Silver Proof 1 OZ (Bulk) “W” as a quantity of 186.
    As stated before I called the USM and could not get an answer as to what that 186 came too.
    They are purchased from bulk buyer (special class of buyer) and are orders of $5,000 or more and they get a 5% discount also.

    Well after some thought if there were two buyers each buying 93 of these at $53.95 each comes to the
    minimum purchase amount of $5,017.35 .

    So my best guess is that is 186 pieces.
    Anyone have any better guess.

  94. Old Big Bird says

    oh my 2017HR guesstimate

    7,500 first day
    17,500 first week.

    It will not go well. Not a pretty coin in my opinion and pricing will be high.

  95. cagcrisp says

    Predictions for Launch Day and Launch Week sales for the 2017 HR…

    KCSO-Day 16,500
    KCSO-Week 21,750

    cagcrisp-Day 23,500
    cagcrisp-Week 25,000

    Dustyroads-Day 7,500

    data dave-Day 30,000
    data dave-Week 35,000
    data dave-End of Year 40,000

    earthling-Day 17,000
    earthling-Week 21,000
    earthling-2017 46,000
    earthling-2018 57,000

    Mr. Kairu-Day 21,000
    Mr. Kairu-Week 23,000

    SILKY-Day 5,000
    SILKY-Week 11,000

    Sith-Day 38,000
    Sith-Week 44,000

    sharks2th-Day 9,218
    sharks2th-Week 11,342

    joe#2-Day 27,000
    joe#2-Week 35,000

    Stipey-Day 18,000
    Stipey-Week 21,000

    Mattarch-Day 6,800
    Mattarch-Week 9,760

    Montana John-Day 4,750
    Montana John-Week 7,450

    DBR-Day 7,700
    DBR-Week 18,000

    Joe M.-Day 15,000
    Joe M.-Week 18,000
    Joe M.-2017 20,000
    Joe M.- <23,000 pulled in 2019

    felson-Day 28,000
    felson-Week 31,500

    zephin-Day 20,100
    zephin-Week 22,100
    zephin-2017 28,100

    Old Big Bird-Day 7,500
    Old Big Bird-Week 17,500

  96. earthling says

    The Jackie Kennedy Gold BU is continuing a steady advance towards Sold Out status.

    84 BU Coins are available

    I might need to order up 2 of these instead of 1 of that HR Gold. Jackie certainly is easier to look at.

  97. Goat says

    Mintman says
    MARCH 30, 2017 AT 3:08 PM

    2017-S first strike eligible coins will only be from the congratulations set
    Keep this in mind
    Coins offered later in the year won’t be eligible

    ???

    If graders designated a name of orientation too other sets they may have early release/first strikes also. With the first set available we know 75,000 will be minted and that’s a lot of early/first .

  98. Goat says

    cagcrisp;

    Goat – Day 26183
    Goat – Week 31183

    Would like to buy but missing out on 1/4 oz. + (bullion) is not worth at this time.

  99. cagcrisp says

    Predictions for Launch Day and Launch Week sales for the 2017 HR…

    KCSO-Day 16,500
    KCSO-Week 21,750

    cagcrisp-Day 23,500
    cagcrisp-Week 25,000

    Dustyroads-Day 7,500

    data dave-Day 30,000
    data dave-Week 35,000
    data dave-End of Year 40,000

    earthling-Day 17,000
    earthling-Week 21,000
    earthling-2017 46,000
    earthling-2018 57,000

    Mr. Kairu-Day 21,000
    Mr. Kairu-Week 23,000

    SILKY-Day 5,000
    SILKY-Week 11,000

    Sith-Day 38,000
    Sith-Week 44,000

    sharks2th-Day 9,218
    sharks2th-Week 11,342

    joe#2-Day 27,000
    joe#2-Week 35,000

    Stipey-Day 18,000
    Stipey-Week 21,000

    Mattarch-Day 6,800
    Mattarch-Week 9,760

    Montana John-Day 4,750
    Montana John-Week 7,450

    DBR-Day 7,700
    DBR-Week 18,000

    Joe M.-Day 15,000
    Joe M.-Week 18,000
    Joe M.-2017 20,000
    Joe M.- <23,000 pulled in 2019

    felson-Day 28,000
    felson-Week 31,500

    zephin-Day 20,100
    zephin-Week 22,100
    zephin-2017 28,100

    Old Big Bird-Day 7,500
    Old Big Bird-Week 17,500

    Goat-Day 26,183
    Goat-Week 31,183

  100. Jim says

    Just rec’d my 2017 Proof American Silver Eagles. Flawless. Reminds me when I was a kid and would go to the local Trading Post and buy 1 dollar face value for 3 dollars before they went to Boston for melting. Walking Liberty has been my favorite for more years than I care to remember. My Mother used to pay the paperboy with Morgan Dollars. Wish I had that bag full now. Oh well, little trip down memory lane.

  101. data dave says

    People have mentioned that the 2017 S Proof Silver Eagle will be available in the LESPS later this year. What they aren’t saying is that that is an EXPENSIVE way to collect the coin. For 2016 the set sells for $140 compared to $107 total for the Silver Proof Eagle and Silver Proof Set. If you put all the extra premium into just getting the S Proof Eagle, you are paying $92 for the coin if you wait and buy it then.

    I guess if the coin is selling for $100 at that point that will be a good deal. But if it is selling for $80, not so much.

  102. cagcrisp says

    Predictions for Launch Day and Launch Week sales for the 2017 HR…

    KCSO-Day 16,500
    KCSO-Week 21,750

    cagcrisp-Day 23,500
    cagcrisp-Week 25,000

    Dustyroads-Day 7,500

    data dave-Day 30,000
    data dave-Week 35,000
    data dave-End of Year 40,000

    earthling-Day 17,000
    earthling-Week 21,000
    earthling-2017 46,000
    earthling-2018 57,000

    Mr. Kairu-Day 21,000
    Mr. Kairu-Week 23,000

    SILKY-Day 5,000
    SILKY-Week 11,000

    Sith-Day 38,000
    Sith-Week 44,000

    sharks2th-Day 9,218
    sharks2th-Week 11,342

    joe#2-Day 27,000
    joe#2-Week 35,000

    Stipey-Day 18,000
    Stipey-Week 21,000

    Mattarch-Day 6,800
    Mattarch-Week 9,760

    Montana John-Day 4,750
    Montana John-Week 7,450

    DBR-Day 7,700
    DBR-Week 18,000

    Joe M.-Day 15,000
    Joe M.-Week 18,000
    Joe M.-2017 20,000
    Joe M.- <23,000 pulled in 2019

    felson-Day 28,000
    felson-Week 31,500

    zephin-Day 20,100
    zephin-Week 22,100
    zephin-2017 28,100

    Old Big Bird-Day 7,500
    Old Big Bird-Week 17,500

    Goat-Day 26,183
    Goat-Week 31,183

    Don-Day 15,250
    Don-Week 21,000
    Don-End Sell 45,000

  103. cagcrisp says

    Predictions for Launch Day and Launch Week sales for the 2017 HR…

    KCSO-Day 16,500
    KCSO-Week 21,750

    cagcrisp-Day 23,500
    cagcrisp-Week 25,000

    Dustyroads-Day 7,500

    data dave-Day 30,000
    data dave-Week 35,000
    data dave-End of Year 40,000

    earthling-Day 17,000
    earthling-Week 21,000
    earthling-2017 46,000
    earthling-2018 57,000

    Mr. Kairu-Day 21,000
    Mr. Kairu-Week 23,000

    SILKY-Day 5,000
    SILKY-Week 11,000

    Sith-Day 38,000
    Sith-Week 44,000

    sharks2th-Day 9,218
    sharks2th-Week 11,342

    joe#2-Day 27,000
    joe#2-Week 35,000

    Stipey-Day 18,000
    Stipey-Week 21,000

    Mattarch-Day 6,800
    Mattarch-Week 9,760

    Montana John-Day 4,750
    Montana John-Week 7,450

    DBR-Day 7,700
    DBR-Week 18,000

    Joe M.-Day 15,000
    Joe M.-Week 18,000
    Joe M.-2017 20,000
    Joe M.- <23,000 pulled in 2019

    felson-Day 28,000
    felson-Week 31,500

    zephin-Day 20,100
    zephin-Week 22,100
    zephin-2017 28,100

    Old Big Bird-Day 7,500
    Old Big Bird-Week 17,500

    Goat-Day 26,183
    Goat-Week 31,183

    Don-Day 15,250
    Don-Week 21,000
    Don-End Sell 45,000

    JARHEADnFLORIDA-Day 10,000
    JARHEADnFLORIDA-Week 15,000

  104. cagcrisp says

    You Know…

    …IF I was a member of the CCAC or the CFA and I Spent all the Time and Effort on trying to get the 2017 HR Right with it being the #1 Launch of the Year, I would Really Really be Upset that the Mint decided to Upstage the Launch by introducing the “S” Congratulations set 2 days before the Most Important day on the CY17 Schedule.

    It could have been introduced 2 days After Launch.

    But 2 days Before Launch?

    All that is going to be talked about leading up to Launch is How fast the 75,000 Congratulations Sets Sold Out, How Many I Got, How much money I’m Going to make On them, How the Mint should have put a HHL….etc….

    Just Saying…

  105. Dustyroads says

    Once again, it appears there is a fundamental disconnect between the coin collecting community’s thinking and the USM actions. It’s been my assumption that even when something is obvious, it’s still too difficult to change at the USM.

  106. Phil says

    Cag, you might as well start a prediction list of how fast the 2017 congratulations S ASE is going to sell out. This will be a must have for most ASE collectors and I’ll bet the big boys are going to scoop up everyone of them they can get their hands on. ER and FS 70 will be at a premium. My guess to start is 11 minutes to sell out.

  107. says

    Phil says
    MARCH 31, 2017 AT 7:08 PM

    Cag, you might as well start a prediction list of how fast the 2017 congratulations S ASE is going to sell out.

    Phil, we sort of addressed that on the past thread. Gotta read the threads Bro.

    Coinweek is predicting a quick sell out per their latest article citing PCGS as their tip off.

    I think they got it here courtesy of Hawkeye Larry. Now that the word is out, among other reasons I’m not going to share here, all you Old Timers that want to complete your ASE sets, again, you need to line up at 12:00, 04 April.., nough on that.

  108. Yes, But...You Can't Take It With You says

    Cag, I agree with what you wrote about the Congrats Set overshadowing the 2017 HR and that same thought had crossed my mind. On the Congrats Set, IF the word gets out (beyond MNB) – and that’s a big IF – my guess would be a sellout in less than 10 minutes. But who knows?

    My guesses on 2017 HR:
    1st Day – 15,000
    Week – 20,000
    Total – 50,000

  109. cagcrisp says

    Predictions for Launch Day and Launch Week sales for the 2017 HR…

    KCSO-Day 16,500
    KCSO-Week 21,750

    cagcrisp-Day 23,500
    cagcrisp-Week 25,000

    Dustyroads-Day 7,500

    data dave-Day 30,000
    data dave-Week 35,000
    data dave-End of Year 40,000

    earthling-Day 17,000
    earthling-Week 21,000
    earthling-2017 46,000
    earthling-2018 57,000

    Mr. Kairu-Day 21,000
    Mr. Kairu-Week 23,000

    SILKY-Day 5,000
    SILKY-Week 11,000

    Sith-Day 38,000
    Sith-Week 44,000

    sharks2th-Day 9,218
    sharks2th-Week 11,342

    joe#2-Day 27,000
    joe#2-Week 35,000

    Stipey-Day 18,000
    Stipey-Week 21,000

    Mattarch-Day 6,800
    Mattarch-Week 9,760

    Montana John-Day 4,750
    Montana John-Week 7,450

    DBR-Day 7,700
    DBR-Week 18,000

    Joe M.-Day 15,000
    Joe M.-Week 18,000
    Joe M.-2017 20,000
    Joe M.- <23,000 pulled in 2019

    felson-Day 28,000
    felson-Week 31,500

    zephin-Day 20,100
    zephin-Week 22,100
    zephin-2017 28,100

    Old Big Bird-Day 7,500
    Old Big Bird-Week 17,500

    Goat-Day 26,183
    Goat-Week 31,183

    Don-Day 15,250
    Don-Week 21,000
    Don-End Sell 45,000

    JARHEADnFLORIDA-Day 10,000
    JARHEADnFLORIDA-Week 15,000

    Yes, But…You Can't Take It With You-Day 15,000
    Yes, But…You Can't Take It With You-Week 20,000
    Yes, But…You Can't Take It With You-Final 50,000

  110. earthling says

    Anyone know where to buy attractive Coin Stickers ? Certain sellers have put out various SAE’s that have turned out to be nothing but pretty stickers on an SAE.

    If we could find attractive stickers maybe we could transform that Gold Coin into something else. I want a Farrah Fawcett sticker. Give her a crown of Stars and that bright smile she always had.

    💖

  111. Joe M. says

    @ earthling
    Just her face with that BEAUTIFUL smile, or that famous red bikini poster 🙂
    LoL

  112. Xena says

    So the Mint’s infinite wisdom is worse than the 2 day difference with the HR, they are stomping right on their own quarter launch. Not going to be there, going to be either in line at the DC Mint store or sitting at my desk at high noon. Although it doesn’t really take much to discourage people from heading to Anacostia.

  113. Xena says

    So now that the Mint ruined the reunion of the MNB quarter-launch bunch, still wondering if any of the DC area folks are going to the coin forum. My brother actually got an invite-looking snail mail card announcing the launch and forum. It says: “RSVP required for coin forum and entry to the U.S. Mint building ddawson@usmint.treas.gov

    So let ddawson know if you are going – Monday 3-4, 801 9th Street NW

  114. says

    Millennials –

    Come on, back over the summer through the winter of ’16 some of you all provided some great insights and perspectives.., you’re a rairity among your generation and here’s an opportunity to voice your thoughts..,

    So…, put Cag to work, let’s hear where you think HR sales will end up.

    Though more importantly why.., you’re perspective matters…

    Time to step it up.., so let’s hear it.

    Thus far, not one Millennium has voice an opinion.., let’s hear it!

  115. Xena says

    There’s no way I’m a buyer on the gold HR – can’t afford it and the crown o’ stars is all wrong. Might spring for the medals though. But I’ll throw a guess in – probably guarantees the real number won’t be anything close 🙂

    Day – 11500
    Week – 12700

    Earthing – you have a printer? Make up your own stickers! You can have anything you want! I still say we should have an MNB logo…

  116. says

    Sorry Xena – I’ll be out of town in defense of our great Nation, though agree with your assessment, very bad head work at the U.S. Mint on many fronts as of late.

    This will probably be the last ‘near by’ event of the series.

  117. Xena says

    Does anyone know if the $24999 max credit card limit on the Mint’s website applies to the big boys? That’s 454 Congratulation Sets at a time. Not sure how many times they could set up the bots with different cards. Hard to believe the Mint would make them go through that.

    There’s only 1 ebay vendor with them listed, you can buy one right now for $64.99 (and 10% ebay bucks). Word can’t be spreading that much.

  118. Larry says

    I do not understand the no household limit on the Congratulations set. HSN guy could buy all of them. Heck, any of the big guys could buy all of them and corner the entire market. The ASE is probably the most popular coin the mint makes. The mint better put a household limit on these, or it will sell out immediately and they will never hear the end of it. While I am happy they are doing the S ASE, I just don’t understand why they never learn. I’m sure all of us here that have gone through the agony of getting on the mint’s website at exactly 12:00 only to see the dreaded “no longer available” come up, do not want to got through it again!

  119. DBR says

    Louis Golino, Author wrote:

    “The LESPS are normally limited to 50K, so 50 plus 75 = 125K max for the 2017-S ASE proof. That is unless they sell it in another product, or up the LESPS mintage, that is still a very lower number around the 3rd lowest. I’m still excited and in for a few. I can use the excitement…”

    I could see a lot of people shut out of a 2017 “S” ASE if there is no HHL on the Congratulations Set and later the LESPS.

    It’ll be a frenzy at 12:00 noon EST. I don’t see the mint making one of the offerings with the “S” ASE to be “mint to demand.” It is not a proof coin so it could go into the annual uncirculated dollar set. No Presidential dollar coins now. So the 2017 unc dollar set could have a “W” ASE as usual, the new “S” ASE, the regular Native American dollar for 2017. A fancy enhancy Native American dollar will likely be in 2017 American $1 Coin & Currency Set. (that makes that product sell much better along with specially selected currency notes with interesting serial numbers).

    I believe the mint when they said they’d jazz things up a bit for this momentous anniversary. I don’t mean to be rude or anything but this is a special anniversary, the 225th. When the next 25-year milestone is reached for the mint’s 250th, I’ll be 75 years-old!!! I may not make that, so that sobering fact makes me grateful to celebrate this one with the numismatic community.

    So here’s to all the longtime, lifelong collectors on this MNB, you’ve experienced the heyday of collecting, true, but I’m hoping it’s a foundation for even better years ahead …though the hobby and offferings will change to be sure. Thank you for your contributions to U.S. Numismatics.

    The 225th anniversary product I would like to see is a mint type set. Take a coin, a newly designed coin, and create a mint-marked version of it from all the mints (P, D, S, CC, O, W, et al., even if these coins had to be hand pressed at the older mints). That’d be nice but probably very expensive. But a very historic set.

  120. KCSO says

    With the different finishes and likely higher cost, a 4-medal set or a four medals individually may run $140 to 155 out the door.

  121. cagcrisp says

    Predictions for Launch Day and Launch Week sales for the 2017 HR…

    KCSO-Day 16,500
    KCSO-Week 21,750

    cagcrisp-Day 23,500
    cagcrisp-Week 25,000

    Dustyroads-Day 7,500

    data dave-Day 30,000
    data dave-Week 35,000
    data dave-End of Year 40,000

    earthling-Day 17,000
    earthling-Week 21,000
    earthling-2017 46,000
    earthling-2018 57,000

    Mr. Kairu-Day 21,000
    Mr. Kairu-Week 23,000

    SILKY-Day 5,000
    SILKY-Week 11,000

    Sith-Day 38,000
    Sith-Week 44,000

    sharks2th-Day 9,218
    sharks2th-Week 11,342

    joe#2-Day 27,000
    joe#2-Week 35,000

    Stipey-Day 18,000
    Stipey-Week 21,000

    Mattarch-Day 6,800
    Mattarch-Week 9,760

    Montana John-Day 4,750
    Montana John-Week 7,450

    DBR-Day 7,700
    DBR-Week 18,000

    Joe M.-Day 15,000
    Joe M.-Week 18,000
    Joe M.-2017 20,000
    Joe M.- <23,000 pulled in 2019

    felson-Day 28,000
    felson-Week 31,500

    zephin-Day 20,100
    zephin-Week 22,100
    zephin-2017 28,100

    Old Big Bird-Day 7,500
    Old Big Bird-Week 17,500

    Goat-Day 26,183
    Goat-Week 31,183

    Don-Day 15,250
    Don-Week 21,000
    Don-End Sell 45,000

    JARHEADnFLORIDA-Day 10,000
    JARHEADnFLORIDA-Week 15,000

    Yes, But…You Can't Take It With You-Day 15,000
    Yes, But…You Can't Take It With You-Week 20,000
    Yes, But…You Can't Take It With You-Final 50,000

    Xena-Day 11,500
    Xena-Week 12,700

  122. KCSO says

    Larry – I feel your pain; and to your point, one must ask, what if the mint only shows with 35,000 of the 70,000 product limit on game day? Hmmmm…. 🤔

  123. says

    Cag – with the show casing of the HR Silver Medals at Whitman now, I’m inclined to think those on the lower end of the range will be more accurate than my Guesstimate prediction

  124. cagcrisp says

    @KCSO, Well…The Mint Sure is doing some strange things to Upstage the Gold Launch.

    The Strange “S” offering 2 days before Launch, No HHL on the “S” Launch and Now viewing the Silver Medals at the Whitman show…

  125. Ilaika says

    HR lady liberty’s portrait resemble Michelle Obama very much. Anyone think Obama had any influence on this? The reverse eagle looks great. On the fence for this one.

  126. So Krates says

    llaika says, ‘HR lady liberty’s portrait resemble Michelle Obama very much. Anyone think Obama had any influence on this? ”

    You (and countless others who have posted here and elsewhere with similar opinions) are suffering from the cross-race effect . You are obviously not black and have a hard time perceiving the subtle but clear differences between Mrs. Obama’s and Miss Liberty’s features. It is a well documented and studied delusion which occurs in most people who don’t have experience with the ethnic “outgroup” in question.

    In other words, you need some black friends so every sista don’t look the same .

  127. Throckmorton says

    I’m afraid I have talked myself into buying a few congrats sets just for the thrill of the hunt.

    In other news, I bet I can find a nice 50 peso Mexican gold from the 1920’s for roughly the same price as the 2017 HR.

  128. says

    ‘S’ ASE –

    It’s a darn shame they didn’t include it in the Reagan Coin & Chronicle set..,
    We get it in the Congratulations set.., Wow.

    …The Mint Sure is doing some strange things…

  129. earthling says

    ”  He also wondered if the price point for a dollar-and-medal package—$100 or more—might be too high for many collectors. He recommended issuing the medals individually and in a lower-priced bronze format. (For comparison, the Mint’s 1.5-inch medals in bronze are priced at $6.95 and its 3-inch medals in bronze are $39.95.)

    Why don’t they just stop milking the herd and just throw out some “free” fodder. The Kennedy Half is about as tired as can be. Couldn’t they just issue all these brilliant ” Medal” ideas, as Commemorative Half Dollars – at face value? And to make a bit more profit they could issue limited PM versions in Proof and BU.

    They keep shearing the Sheep and Milking the Bulls , us dumb animals might smarten up and just stop doing anything at all. We’ll just lay down and stage a protest of some sort.

    😾

  130. KEITHSTER says

    It’s just too bad the Mint did not make the gold coin just like they did the medals? they would have sold them out in a hurry. Three different at 33,333 in each finish . That reverse proof is the bomb they should had made that the coin looks more real even on the back shelf ! O well maybe next time they seem to be picking up a little off the blog Well Good Luck Any Way All”>”>”>

  131. earthling says

    I’ve forgotten that the Mint no longer issues Half Dollars to Banks at face value. Oh well, Kennedy is tired, let the Man rest. Start issuing Clad Commemorative Halves at a modest premium over face. Make these brilliant “Medals” into Half Dollars to replace Kennedy. The Half Dollar doesn’t circulate and it’s big.

    Time for those City minters in DC to act like they got human brains , not some useless PC paper degreed brain.

  132. earthling says

    P.S. If they issue Commemorative Clad Halves at a small premium over face , I’ll do my part in releasing some into the wild. Once in a while.

    I’m about that bored. That’s something I do to kick out the jams.

  133. VA Bob says

    I still can’t believe people fall for that “First Strike” gimmick. These S ASE’s most likely will be struck around the same time, and one has just as good a chance of getting the real first one made in either the Congratulation set or the LESPS. Now, I know the folks commenting on it here in MNB are just pointing out some look for and pay more for this LABEL. I’m more interested in the buyers of these as an investment/collectable. Do you worry that the truth of it will be come widely known in the future, impacting the premium that charged at purchase?

  134. sharks2th says

    @KCSO – Mr. Mackey from the South Park cartoon is selling your BHOF silver proofs on HSN tonight, Mmm-Kay. He is asking 99.95 in the OGP, Mmm-Kay. It is a price cut from his previous price of 129.95, Mmm-Kay. He says he originally sold them for 149.95, Mmm-Kay.

    If you listen to Mike the shyster, he sounds just like the Mr. Mackey character on South Park when says “Mmm-Kay”.

    He’s also got the ANACS PR-70 2017 silver eagles for 179.95. What a ripoff.

    @Xena & Paddy, too – I’m going to skip the D.C. mint release on Tuesday as well. Maybe we’ll catch you guys at another event.

  135. says

    @ sharks2th – that’s funny, I’ll take your word for it as I jdon’t want to toss the good mean I just enjoyed if I were to to tune in to see that clown.

    Yeah, I can’t make the D.C., too much stuff going on. Though do you think they’ll be selling those ASE S at the HQ kiosk? Those $1 BHoFs still seem to be loosing steam though the golds are picking up again with some decent price pressure. I’ve decide to lock up my sealed $1 and forget about them for about 5 to 10 years, they’ll come around in due time, with all the coins being repurposed for slabbed labels, in beginning to think the future demand will be on OGP. Ag will be back in the $30’s at some point when China & India get their economies firing on all cylinders again, then it’ll be watch out.

  136. Xena says

    KCSO – I’ll let you know Monday about the Mint store. My brother is going to stop by and ask. They should have them since there is no HHL.

  137. Numismatrix says

    “I’m more interested in the buyers of these as an investment/collectable. ” – VABob

    I would agree completely. I view this coin/set as another
    edition / addition to my set of OGP-ASEs.

  138. felson says

    $1100 for a graded bullion coin…. 1 of 11,000,000+…. not sure I understand whatever logic they were using to make that call. PCGS is missing the boat, they need to roll out the classic holder series and stop with the pointless labels.

  139. Natatack says

    Anybody think it’s would be a good time to commemorate a 100 year anniversary of the Peace dollar in 2021? Maybe a high relieve and or a matte proof. Also maybe commemorate the end of the Morgan dollar 100 years ago in 2021, both of these classics were ended/started in 1921.

  140. cagcrisp says

    @Natatack, It has been mentioned Many times by Me that I Hope the Mint will do a Full1 oz Gold Peace Dollar in 2021…

  141. HarryB says

    @cag: I too would like to see a 1oz gold 2021 Peace dollar commerative, but by 2021 the Mint’s premium over spot may be well in excess of 50% unless the decline in sales of all Mint collector products is reversed. The Mint’s reliance on ever increasing premiums over spot on PM offerings in a declining collector market will destroy the Mint’s business model. Sad. Harry

  142. Donald says

    One business day remains for the Mint to make a decision on a HH limit for the 2017 S ASE proof before it turns off another chunk of collectors.

  143. cagcrisp says

    Considering ALL interested parties in the “S” ASE, I Hope the Mint leaves the HHL at None.

    IF you want to Buy, Buy. Quit playing class warfare between different parties.

    Everyone has an Equal Chance at Noon on Tuesday.

    The Mint Screwed Up by having a HHL on the 3 coin BT set…

  144. says

    Putting an ASE ‘S’ in of all things, a Congratulations Set with a Product Limit of 75,000.., reeks of desperation and ineptitude.., in a most cheesy way.

    Very Cheesy.

    Besides, how many non-LESPS collectors want to spend $140 for a last ditch effort to pick up an ASE S?

    Well, anyway, with that.., answer this, does the 🎉 Set go CU in minutes?, hours? or will live to see 05 April ’17

  145. earthling says

    On the appointed day I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see the entire mintage of that Congrats Set is already gone. 😠😢😣 ( Big Boy bought em all a month ago)

    But no sweat. No worries. Maybe Congrats II will be on the way – P-Mint Proof -mintage 70K, HHL 1.

  146. says

    Just out of curiosity –

    How many of you come Tuesday are going to have to excuse yourself for a 15 minute ‘smoke break,’ Bio break, or a run to the car at 11:55 on Tuesday to place your order?

    Any unique order placing stories?

    I once had to place my cell phone up to an aircraft window on departure climb out to get one through, surprisingly it took at 2,000 ft.

  147. Xena says

    KCSO – mentioned the 454 Friday night. The 165 orders is the scarier number though…

    Cag – not everyone can be sitting at a computer or phone at exactly noon EDT, so I’d argue it’s not a fair shot for everyone. You are lucky to have a lot of flexibility at your day job. I want one for my collection, which is almost a complete set. I like the excitement of the new ASE but would rather not have the stress of worrying whether I can actually get a couple at list price.

    Natatack – agreed on the Peace dollar. The gold bugs want one too, but I would rather see it done only in the original silver. Write your member of congress!

  148. earthling says

    The Jackie Kennedy BU First Spouse Gold is on the move. Currently there are 81 Coins left. The pace has picked up, I wonder if they’ll all be gone in a few days. A decision could be made on HR Day (4-6-7) between 2 Jackies or 1 Michele O? Same price. Low Mintage vs possible high mintage. Beautiful Coin vs pretty coin. Camelot vs some dark years.

  149. So Krates says

    I’m not sure how cagcrisp figures that a HHL = class warfare. I heard the same hyperbole about the WHL second shot.

    There is no dollar limit on transactions paid for by wire transfer and therefore is no HHL. In theory, one party can buy all the sets. Yes we all have an equally slim chance to get one, and we all have an equal chance to buy them ALL. So what? Rationing a product in high demand to promote more equitable distribution is not “class warfare”.

  150. Donald says

    For some commenters, especially those who post continuously during all waking hours, this Blog is their day (and night) job. No problem for them come Tuesday– they’ll be poised and ready with a steady pulse. No HH limit needed.

  151. cagcrisp says

    Here are SOME of the Negative Comments on This blog when the “W” ASE Proof was announced.

    NOW with what is “perceived” as a Valuable “S” Proof ASE people are posting about their desire to get the “S”.

    …SO… The desire is NOT really for the “S” coin as much as it’s desired because of the “perceived” secondary market pricing because of the Low Initial mintage.

    …No Love for the “W” on this blog and NOW they’re worried about playing class warfare and picking and choosing who can and can not be allowed to purchase the coins because of an Artificial quota system like a HHL because THEY want the “S”…

    • gary says
    March 20, 2017 at 4:32 pm
    $54 = $17 silver & dated 2017. Pass.

    • JARHEADnFLORIDA says
    March 20, 2017 at 4:40 pm
    @ Gary, I agree with you. Same old design, just another date with ever increasing prices.

    • one fine dime says
    March 20, 2017 at 7:22 pm
    I concur with ‘gary’ and ‘JARHEADnFLORIDA’!

    • David says
    March 20, 2017 at 7:28 pm
    I agree, $54 for $17 bullion value is a bit much. A $37 mark up is too rich for my blood.

    • Barry says
    March 20, 2017 at 7:38 pm
    A Morgan dollar random year for less than $ 42.00. Take your pick. I’ll take the Morgan dollar. Thank you.

    • John Q. Coinage says
    March 20, 2017 at 7:44 pm
    I used to get so fired up…Now there are decades & decades of these coins, time for a NEW design. Add in the price is well over 3x spot & it’s a heck of a deal.

    • Jerry Diekmann says
    March 20, 2017 at 8:37 pm
    I agree that it is WAY PAST TIME to change the tired old unattractive reverse design

    • Scott says
    March 21, 2017 at 9:24 am
    Way the hell overpriced and a tired design. It’s time for something new, but please no P.C. B.S.

  152. VA Bob says

    KCSO – Had to laugh when you mentioned about running to the car to place an order. The tribulations of working at a secure facility. What is really sad is I have Tuesday off for a doctors appointment that happens to be at 11:40. LOL Never thought I’d miss the old mail in order form (pre-online ordering). It took a while, but I always got what I wanted.

    Oh well, I’m really beginning to tire of the games at the Mint anyway. You’re right, there is some thing strange about putting this coin into a “Congratulations” set when very few will be given as a congratulatory gift to non-numismatic collectors. Most recipients would probably smile, say thank you, and throw this in a sock drawer, oblivious to a little “S” mint mark, let alone a shinny silver dollar dare not spent at face value. I’ve drastically scaled back my Mint purchases this year. Of course the Mint is helping me immensely with either poor designs or the embarrassing lavish premiums they are charging.

  153. earthling says

    One things for sure, declining sales/mintage has been a fact since the economic collapse in 2008. If our new POTUS can spark a fire maybe things will get better for the man in the street. Maybe the Coin World will recover one day? One can only hope.

    Jackie BU Gold is still at 81 (left in stock). I surprised , seemed like they were about to be sold out really soon. Maybe give it another week.

  154. JARHEADnFLORIDA says

    cag, I stand by my statement and will not be purchasing. The mint can change the mintmark all they want. and I repeat will not purchase.

  155. Dustyroads says

    earthling, It’s been my opinion that what will have to happen in the base is either a rethinking about value, or a new base altogether. Most of the base was priced out of the game as soon as gold went over $800.00. The new base at the moment in my opinion has yet to mature, so I’m not talking about the people who have weathered the storm, but about a new base. We won’t see a new one begin to happen until we can have certainty about what gold is actually worth, until then we who are playing are better known as gold bugs or investors.
    And about DJ Trump fixing all that is wrong for the guy on the street, it looks like the “Trump Rally” has run out of steam. Doubt me? Take a look at a soft/hard data chart and tell me the rally is anything but hot air.
    More $ was lost in 2008 than anyone can fathom, it’s going to take far more time to make up those losses than anyone is willing to admit. Then we will have to have the biggest, longest rally we have ever seen to put this train back on the tracks. Hope is the only thing distilling this whiskey.
    Growth numbers are about to hit, we all better hope they are not less than the already dismal numbers expected by the Fed. Credit can’t help us now, we need something moar real.

  156. says

    @ VA Bob,

    Good to hear from ya, & hope all is well (this is former VARich). I was working from one your ‘facilities’ further south during both of those hurricanes last year, think I got the last flight out on standby during Matthew, made for an interesting fall and a few good stories. If your stock goes up in the 4th, you owe me! I know exactly what you mean, during the WLH Redux, I had to jump in the rental and go chasing for a signal, luckily it didn’t sell out too quick or I didn’t run over some kid try to buy a Merc. It’s funny as hell some of the action that needs to be taken to get a silly mint order in sometimes, ah but I can be fun too. This S coin won’t be wasted on gift giving, it be wasted on slabbing and labels, it should have a real nice pop to it so what scraps are left, all the other retailers will be pouncing on.
    Life for me got A LOT easier then I just started collecting OGPs and discounted all the garbage and theatrics that comes along with this hobby.
    Best of luck to ya,
    R

  157. VA Bob says

    I didn’t lose track of your handle switch KCSO, we go back a few years now. Though I don’t comment much anymore, I try to pop in to read what’s going on from time to time. Most of you guys write enough to more than cover what I might have to say, and much better stated to boot. I do enjoy seeing what the old guard has to say, as well as the new(er) commenters. But wow, the Mint is just losing me on the recent products. The WWI issues have caught my attention (and proposed moon landing coin), all to be determined.

    Yeah Mathew did mess a few folks up around here. I came out unscathed. I guess every place has it’s own environmental hazards to contend with.

  158. says

    Product Schedule is being updated, currently unavailable on the mint’s website.., stand by for a curve ⚾️

  159. Goat says

    Can anyone get the Mint web site to work at this tome ? I get “Oops…Something went wrong” Refresh on everything. Is this a sign ?

  160. Old Big Bird says

    @ Goat –

    I too can not get on other than the main lading page and production & sales

  161. Teach says

    The mint’s website is basically down. I can hardly wait to see this happen at noon tomorrow 🙂

  162. A&L Futures says

    U.S. Mint’s website restored. Question now is, “What caused the glitch in the Matrix. What did they change?”

  163. data dave says

    OT – All the focus was on the 2016 silver proof set selling out. Looks like the clad set is gone also. All that is left with the clad proof coins is the Happy Birthday set. Assuming these will be gone soon also, we are looking at some new lows.

    Proof Cent: 2015 – 1099K, 2016 – 1003K about 10% less
    Proof Clad Half: 2015 – 712K, 2016 636K about 10% less
    Proof Silver Half: 2015 – 387K, 2016 – 406K about 5% more
    Proof Dollars: 2015 – 1272K, 2016 1176K about 10% less

    I wouldn’t recommend speculating on the clad proof set, but you have to wonder when it will hit bottom. The 2016 Proof dollar set is still for sale but not for long. Those 3 will be keys to the proof presidential dollar series.

  164. Dustyroads says

    With all the 2015 proof sets removed from the Mint website, we can now begin to know where the lowest mintage fall.

  165. johnaz says

    Well e-bay is adding sale tax for coins.I order a coin and added 2.45 sale tax.Any one know if this is the new .

  166. Dustyroads says

    johnaz, Some other people were having the same problem. Looks like you’re going to have to complain to the seller. If that doesn’t work, go directly to ebay and complain.

  167. Dustyroads says

    There was someone else here blowing the alarm about the 2015 Silver Proof Sets actually having lower mintages than the 2016’s due to the lack of the LESPS being sold in 2015. To date, 2015 proof silver dimes and halves are 4.8% lower, and 2015 silver quarters are 2.1% lower than the 2016 silver proof releases. The 2016 LESPS’s are still on sale, as well as the 2016 silver proof quarter sets.

  168. data dave says

    @johnaz – Does the sales tax only apply to in state purchases or all purchases or only certain merchants?

  169. Barry says

    I read Amazon is collecting taxes in all states now except for a handful of states that have no sales tax such as Delaware. I didn’t see anything about Ebay.

  170. cagcrisp says

    Depends on which state you are Buying you coins from. Some states , coins are Exampt from sales tax and use tax…

  171. J JONAH JAMESON says

    Effigy Mounds National Monument – 20,300

    Frederick Douglass National Historic Site – 9,700

    Does this mean they are done with the Effigy?

    Item Number: 17RF (congratulations)

    Mintage Limit: None

    Product Limit: 75,000

    Household Order Limit: None

    20,300

    9,700

  172. Barry says

    btw, I see the “Birth” sets on the mint website back to 2013. Now who would buy these except for maybe men who just got the news “You are the father! ” together with some procrastinators.

  173. Dustyroads says

    20,300

    APMEX now has 103 in stock. They only had several at the end of last week.

  174. Larry says

    So it looks like the S ASE will go on sale tomorrow wit no household limit. I predict these will be gone in microseconds
    Why? Just take a look at the 2011 S coin from the 25th Anniversary set. It has about the same mintage as this one most likely will, and sells from $200-$300. This has to be as close to a no brainer as you can get.
    I don’t collect ASE’s, so I don’t really need one, but if I am by the computer at 12:00 eastern time I may try to get one just for sport. If I had deep pockets I might buy them all.

  175. Larry says

    Pretty gutsy guaranteeing you are going to get 10 MS70 coins that aren’t out yet. Unless they know something we don’t.

  176. earthling says

    Do commercially graded 70 Bullion Coins really matter, anymore? Did they EVER really matter?

  177. Dustyroads says

    If the 2017-S ASE sells only 125,000 which we all should expect, it will be the lowest mintage key of this variety. The only other of course is the 2012-S with a mintage of 281,792, which we all should be in agreement is at saturation point in the secondary market. These coins range very wildly in price, as seen below in recently ended actions on ebay.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/2012-S-AMERICAN-SILVER-EAGLE-PROOF-PF70-NGC-PERFECT-EARLY-RELEASES-500-/291989378601?hash=item43fbec5629:g:l2AAAOSw44BYOJJ3

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/2012-S-Silver-American-Eagle-Dollar-PR69-DCAM-PCGS-75th-Anniv-SF-Mint-Set-coin-/401291775896?hash=item5d6eda8f98:g:UaMAAOSwhQhYybgE

    What should be most noted about the 2017-S is it’s likely only 125,000 mintage. This mintage is going to be below market saturation, plus, the gap between releases will cause a boost in the secondary market.
    I have already read other news stories in the press about these coins coming onto the market. There is excitement for these so called sets. I expect average secondary prices anywhere from $90.00 to $150.00 realized with some higher. But there is risk here, because there are some unknowns about the exact final mintage. This will undoubtedly have an impact on many buyers. This should cause some sense of warning to most of you guys who may be hoping for a big day tomorrow. Perhaps everyone should also heed the warnings of KCSO about “Texasge” who has become well known for their dumping style of business. I will find my way to the starting block at noon, but only for what I am willing to keep for myself, which has always been my style.

  178. Mintman says

    cheap for FS PR70’s; no way a little guy can beat that price
    That’s a bulk sub

  179. Larry says

    I stand corrected. I should have said PR70, not MS70. I think this coin will be closer in value to the UNC S in the 2011 Anniversary set, which sold 100K. That coin does sell for $200-$300. Regardless of the finish, if you collect ASE’s you will need this one, and it should sell about 125K.
    I think the past has shown that a low mintage popular coin with no HHL or a large HHL will quickly go up in value. Like the 2011 Anniversary set or the Truman C&C set.
    Of course there is the LESP wild card, which may hold the value down for a while. Plus the mint may do something we don’t know about, like include this in another set.

  180. earthling says

    No HHL ? I see this as an 8 minute sellout.

    But how quickly will the next hot surprise item go? How much can the country absorb? Something tells me were going to find out this year.

    And next year….

    And the next……

    Soon enough todays mintages will blow everyones minds. How did they EVER sell THAT many?

  181. Louis Golino, Author says

    I knew they were a good deal at $83 a pop with free shipping (now $109) because the coin plus grading (if you are not a big boy) is right around $80. No brainer. Esp. since I am not a member of PSGS now and wanted one of those.

    There is a great new bullion coin with lots of upside (went up several dollars a coin earlier today), but to find out, you will have to read my Coin World blog in the next couple days.

    There was a lot of pooh-poohing here about the NPS coins for months, but the halves are bringing $40-50 in auctions, and the ms70 coins that were $100 are now $200-300. Shows why you should not follow the pack.

  182. Louis Golino, Author says

    I told the Mint to add a HHL, but we will see if they acted on it. I said 5 or 10 per. Otherwise gone in a flash.

  183. Louis Golino, Author says

    As things stand now, it will be the 4th lowest for the series not counting the 07/08 die variety. In order for it to come in 5th, the Mint would need to triple the LESPS mintage to 150K, bringing the total to 225K, which would eek out the current 4th at 222K, but that is unlikely. This is as no brainer as they get unless the big boys use their Russian bots to gobble them all up. Plus they may be able to buy with bulk sales. I am waiting to hear back on that. Man, I need some bots!

  184. says

    To all you fellow small time collectors –

    Good luck tomorrow.

    It’s gonna be a slugfest in the trenches and likely end in a bloodbath.

    Anticipate the site going down or being sluggish for the first 12 to 15, though hang in there.

    Once orders start to take, this thing will be over by 12:30 (probably, though who knows).

    If it ends poorly, you can thank the dealers, ever heard the phrase like white on rice?
    Godspeed!

  185. earthling says

    At some point I would expect the market to dry up. But when? It’s anybody’s guess. Oh well.

    Back up the Truck Mabel ! We’s got some loadin to do.

    😃

  186. says

    I have a favor to ask –

    If you’re able to place an order with in 12:05, List the ORDER # (last 2 digits as XX’s is fine) and the EXACT TIME.

    An order # at 12:10,
    12:15,
    12:20, &
    12:30

    Would be appreciated!

    Remember, List the ORDER # (last 2 digits as XX’s is fine) and the EXACT TIME.

    Thanks

  187. Larry says

    At the very least, it should be a huge day for MNB comments. Should we guess how many by tomorrow midnight? I say 400.

  188. Dustyroads says

    I really don’t think that 125,000…#1 Lou, is all that much to get excited about, considering that saturation is roughly 50,000 north. Yes, it’s a relatively low number…#1 Lou, but still not below the 100,000 ceiling for the ASE created in 2011. Buy yes, lose my head, no. BTW Lou, you’ve been in the gym a lot lately, your muscles must be getting bigger pumping all those coins.

  189. says

    Rick – while most likely true, this time there’s no restrictive HHL (so far), so everyone starts out on equal footing.

    Personally, I’d LOVE to see GovMint, MCM, Texasge, and Mike the 🤡 get shut out for once, totally shut out, and see how the dynamics change.., going get interesting

    I wonder what else we might see..,

    a RP or Enhanced AGE would cool..,

  190. KCSO says

    Ah Ha! Breaking News for MNB –

    Here it is..,

    Cynthia Snow
    Cynthia Snow Very gorgeous coin…
    I would love to add this coin to my coin collection, if I can afford it❤️…
    6 · April 1 at 2:46pm

    United States Mint

    United States Mint Cynthia Snow There will be a silver medal version released in June–same design, at an affordable price.
    4 · April 3 at 7:57am

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