The Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee and a Few of Its Design Ideals

Pages from CCAC_Blueprint_Report

This post was updated on Feb. 4 at 8:10 a.m. to add a missing hyperlink.

As an intermediate step between parts 1 and 2 of “A Vision of Liberty for a Modern Nation,” it seems helpful to take a look at the Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee (CCAC), which featured prominently in part 1. This post, although lengthy, will be looking at three simple questions: What exactly is the CCAC’s role? What qualifies the current committee to perform that role? And what aesthetic ideals do they look for in a coin’s prospective design?

Note that, although this is a lengthy blog post, it isn’t an essay, and the reader won’t miss out on anything by skipping ahead or doubling back to different points of interest. Feel free to jump around—but be sure not to miss the links to the PDFs in the final section.

What the CCAC Does

The CCAC, established by an act of Congress in 2003, is one of two bodies that advise the Secretary of the Treasury on the themes and designs for all U.S. coins and medals. The other body is the Commission of Fine Arts (CFA), which advises the president, Congress, and others on “designs proposed for memorials, coins, medals, and new or renovated government buildings, as well as privately owned properties in certain areas of Washington.”

The CCAC’s focus is much narrower: “any theme or design proposals relating to circulating coinage, bullion coinage, Congressional Gold Medals, and national and other medals.” The CCAC advises the Secretary on “events, persons, or places to be commemorated by the issuance of commemorative coins,” and makes recommendations on the mintage levels for those coins. Although the CCAC’s recommendations are taken very seriously, the Secretary is not bound by the committee’s advice.

Current CCAC Members

The Secretary appoints the 11 members, whose roles and qualifications are defined by Public Law 108-15. These members, and their qualifications, are as follows. (The bios are condensed from the more in-depth versions on the CCAC website; any errors are my own).

Member Specially Qualified as a Numismatic Curator

Robert Hoge—Curator of North American Coins and Currency for the American Numismatic Society (ANS). Former curator of the American Numismatic Association (ANA) Money Museum, manager of the ANA’s Authentication Bureau, and columnist / contributing editor for The Numismatist. Member of numerous professional numismatic and museological organizations; has been a guest on The News Hour with Jim Lehrer and The History Detectives.

Member Specially Qualified in Medallic Arts / Sculpture

Heidi Wastweet—American medalist and sculptor. Has produced more than 1,000 coins, medals, tokens, and rare-coin replicas in conjunction with a wide variety of private mints. Former chief engraver for Sunshine Mint and lead designer/sculptor for Global Mint. Former treasurer of the American Medallic Sculpture Association; current president and founder of Seattle Sculpture Guild as well as a member of the Federation Internationale de la Medaille (FIDEM). Has been included in Coin World and COINage magazine; exhibits non-commission work regularly, including the National Sculpture Society in New York and the Norwegian Heritage Museum in Washington.

Member Specially Qualified in American History

Dr. Herman Viola—Curator emeritus at the Smithsonian Institution. Former director of both the National Museum of Natural History’s Quincentenary Programs and the Smithsonian’s National Anthropological Archives. Former staff member at the National Archives (where he launched the prize-winning quarterly Prologue: The Journal of the National Archives) and archivist for the National Historical Records and Publications Commission. Consultant to numerous museums and educational organizations, and an active educator who has taught at several universities. Author or co-author of numerous history books, including Warriors in Uniform: The Legacy of American Indian Heroism; Warrior Artists; and Diplomats in Buckskin: A History of Indian Delegations in Washington City.

Member Specially Qualified in Numismatics

Dennis Tucker—Publisher at Whitman Publishing (parent company of Mint News Blog), specializing in books on numismatics, banking and financial history, and American history. Life Member of the ANA; past governor of the Token and Medal Society. Author of American Gold and Silver: U.S. Mint Collector and Investor Coins and Medals, Bicentennial to Date. Contributor to The Numismatist, Coin World, Numismatic News, COINage, and Coins Magazine, and the journals of the Token and Medal Society, the Civil War Token Society, the Barber Coin Collectors Society, and the Numismatic Bibliomania Society. Recipient of the Extraordinary Merit Award from the Numismatic Literary Guild; the Forrest Daniel Award for Literary Excellence from the Society of Paper Money Collectors; the silver medal of the Original Hobo Nickel Society; and the Gloria Peters Literary Award from Women in Numismatics.

Members Representative of the General Public

Erik Jansen—C.E.O. and co-founder of a medical device firm in Mercer Island, Washington. Has a long history of successful nonprofit and philanthropic work, especially in the area of education. A lifelong coin collector with a deep knowledge of coinage and many of the numismatic-related issues facing the CCAC and the United States Mint.

Jeanne Stevens-Sollman—A leading medallic sculptor, with work exhibited throughout the United States and in the collections of museums throughout the United States and Europe, as well as in numerous private collections. Current president of the American Medallic Sculpture Association and U.S. vice delegate to FIDEM. Recipient of the ANA’s Award of Excellence in Medallic Sculpture.

Steve Roach—Independent appraiser and consultant focusing on rare coins and fine art. Certified member (and a board member) of the International Society of Appraisers. Former editor-in-chief of Coin World, and current editor-at-large. Formerly served as a professional coin grader, coin wholesaler, and paintings specialist at an international auction house. Also served on the Michigan State Quarter Commission.

Members Recommended by Congressional Leaders

Thomas Uram—Recommended by the Speaker of the House. A 30-year veteran of the financial services industry. Life Member of the ANA. Former president of the George Washington Numismatic Association. Member of Western Pennsylvania Numismatic Society, Central States Numismatic Association, Florida United Numismatists, the Sphinx Society, the North Hills Coin Club, and the South Hills Coin Club. Life member and current president of the Pennsylvania Association of Numismatics.

Mary Lannin—Recommended by the minority leader of the House. Freelance numismatic editor; former public-television producer/director; former California winery owner and representative. Life member of the ANA and ANS; member of the Royal Numismatic Society, the Swiss Numismatic Society, the San Francisco Ancient Numismatic Society, the Pacific Coast Numismatic Society, and the New York Numismatic Club, among others.

Donald Scarinci—Recommended by the Senate majority leader. Attorney and senior partner at Scarinci Hollenbeck, LLC. Constitutional-law blog editor; author of the books David Brearley and the Making of the U.S. Constitution, Redistricting by Commission in the United States, and The Krause Coin of the Year. Fellow member of the ANS; life member of the ANA. Serves on the committees for the J. Sanford Saltus Award and the Krause Coin of the Year Award.

Mike Moran—Recommended by the Senate minority leader. Numismatic author, lecturer, and researcher. Recipient of the ANA’s Heath Literary Award. Author of Striking Change: The Great Artistic Collaboration of Theodore Roosevelt and Augustus Saint-Gaudens (winner of the PNG’s Robert Friedberg Award) and 1849: The Philadelphia Mint Strikes Gold. Chair of the advisory board of the Art Museum at the University of Kentucky.

The CCAC’s Design Criteria

While it’s nice to know the committee members are highly qualified rather than random political appointees, what most people really want to know is, how do they make their decisions? What are they thinking when they choose one obverse design over another?

“A Blueprint for Advancing Artistic Creativity and Excellence in United States Coins and Medals” is a special report of the CCAC that can be downloaded as a PDF file. It explains much about where the Mint’s design process once was, and where the CCAC is helping it to go. In the introduction, the report tells the story of how, in 2007, Director Edmund Moy expressed a desire “to spark a neo-renaissance for coin design and achieve a new level of design excellence.” As quoted in the document, Mr. Moy said, “I want to surpass the golden age of coin design which began at the start of the 20th Century. If the 20th century continues to be called the Golden Age, I want the 21st century to be known as the ‘Platinum Age’ of coinage.”

With this in mind, the director, the CCAC, and the CFA scrutinized the workings of the Mint and of the design-selection process. In the words of a CFA letter, the quality of coin designs was “embarrassingly low, both in the often amateurish character of the artwork and in generally poor compositions”—a statement the CCAC agreed with.

Thus, in July 2010, a new scoring system devised by the CCAC required each design to receive a minimum 50% score before it could be considered for recommendation. At the time of the “Blueprint” report, the CCAC had reviewed 128 designs; to their alarm (but not, perhaps, their surprise), only 18 of those designs rated the minimum 50% score.

The CCAC formed the Subcommittee on Coin Design Excellence, whose purpose was “to develop a comprehensive set of recommendations addressing design quality to the Secretary of the Treasury regarding all future theme and design proposals relating to circulating coinage, bullion coinage, commemorative coinage, congressional gold medals and national and other medals produced by the Secretary of the Treasury in accordance with section 5111 of title 31, United States Code.” In addition to forming the subcommittee, the CCAC’s chairman, Gary Marks, appointed Heidi Wastweet (see her earlier bio) to work with committee members “to develop a visual definition of design excellence.”

This blog post, which is already quite long enough, won’t go into the details of the subcommittee’s findings, but they are quite interesting. (A stifling creative environment for the artists was one unsurprising discovery.) The PDF covers the findings and recommendations in detail; section 4.3, “Recommendations for United States Mint Sculptor-Engravers and AIP,” is especially interesting.

What I’d like to focus on here is this “visual definition of design excellence,” which Wastweet and Marks set forth in a 2014 report called “How to Make Friends and Influence the Committee (a.k.a. How to Get Picked).” The 20-page document is simple and straightforward. It begins with a list of “Design Aspects We Look For,” which are:

  • Texture and pattern
  • Thoughtfully balanced negative spaces
  • Stylization
  • Ethnic diversity
  • Allegory
  • Symbolism
  • Details yes, overcrowding no
  • Creative perspective and atmospheric perspective
  • Integrated text
  • Clear typestyles
  • Clarity of message
  • Subtlety, not literalism or storyboard
  • Relevancy of obverse to reverse
  • Designs, not pictures
  • Fluidity of line
  • Edge variety

In keeping with the visual orientation of artists, this is not a text-heavy document. Each bullet point gets one page, and is illustrated with examples from around the world. The prospective artist can flip through and get a sense of what the committee is looking for in a single glance. An “American Numismatic Iconography” is included at the end, for designers who might need a refresher: oak leaves represent strength; fasces represent civil government; and so on.

All the design elements and their examples are worth studying, and they’ll inform the way you look at all coins going forward. Four, however, will be especially relevant to part 2 of “A Vision of Liberty.” The first is “clarity of message.” The three examples are spot-on. You don’t need to know anything about coins or history to know the one at upper left concerns a book or author, the one at right references the coming of peace and/or freedom to a city (and probably a European one, by the style of the architecture), and the one at the lower left is telling a story about some guy in antiquity getting into trouble with a whale.

Medallic-Design-Elements_clarity

The second element is “details yes, overcrowding no.” Both coins pack a tremendous amount of detail and story into a tiny, round space, yet on both of them, there’s plenty of empty space. Here, the issue is as much about which details to omit as which ones to include.

Medallic-Design-Elements_details-vs-overcrowding

The third and fourth are related, but they’re not the same thing (although they do overlap a bit). With a “symbol,” one image represents another—for example, the torch represents remembrance. With an “allegory,” multiple symbols come together to represent a larger concept. In the “symbolism” examples, the 9/11 commemorative contains both the symbol of the torch, and an allegory of American remembrance (Liberty + torch). In the “allegory” examples, Adolph Weinman’s eagle symbolizes strength, while the twisted pine sapling symbolizes a young America; taken together, they form an allegory of the young, powerful nation.

Medallic-Design-Elements_symbolism

Medallic-Design-Elements_allegory

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Comments

  1. KEITHSTER says

    I thought they were going to do a new liberty dollar every year? What happened to that idea now should be the time? Waiting for the crackers to hit the bank!! So Good Luck All”>”>”>”>”>”>”>”>”>”>

  2. Just Another Dave In Pa says

    Yeah, thanks Dustyoads. that was nice.

    I’m not really thrilled by the CCAC and their arbitrary standards. That ethnic diversity is so high on their list of standards is lamentable but it fully explains the new Liberty designs.

    I do have some Heidi Wastweet designs from the Silver Shield series. They’re nice but not really exceptional. Freedom Girl is a decent modern interpretation and her Soaring Liberty is a real nice design.

    I guess it’s good to have options. I got my old Irish pre-decimal coins today and I love them. The Irish harp is such a nice design and combined with the Irish Wolfhound or Hen or Rabbit it just makes me happy. No agenda. Just great coins.

  3. Just Another Dave In Pa says

    The Irish pre-decimal coins are masterpieces, imo.

    Here is some background, and yes, Senator W.B. Yeats is THE W.B. Yeats.

    The Design
    The Irish government created a committee headed by Senator W. B. Yeats to determine designs suitable for the coins. From the outset it was decided that the harp should be on all coins. It was also agreed that no people should feature due to the political divisions after the Irish Civil War. Agriculture and rural life was, and still is, an essential part of the Irish economy and so was chosen as the basis for the design of the reverse.
    After much internal debate and deliberation, Yeats declared that they “ decided upon birds and beasts, the artist, the experience of centuries has shown, might achieve a masterpiece, and might, or so it seemed to use, please those that would look longer at each coin than anybody else, artists and children. Besides, what better symbols could we find for this horse riding, salmon fishing, cattle raising country? “

    Yeats got it right.

  4. cagcrisp says

    Gold AM Fix $1,224.05…

    We came within $3.66 of breaking $1,200.00 and a $50 price Decrease yesterday and Now we’re at $1,224.05.

    The power of the spoken word. (And the authority/power to back up the said spoken word)…

  5. Louis Golino, Author says

    Steve Roach is no longer on the CCAC. He resigned and was replaced by Kareem Abdul Jabbar.

    Also, I don’t think the list of standards is in order of importance, but I could be wrong.

  6. Louis Golino, Author says

    Heidi’s work, which includes tons of commissioned sculptures as well as coins and medals, is enormously popular. This site has more info. and pictures of her work: http://www.wastweetstudio.com/#
    My favorite is probably her Cleopatra 2 oz. silver UHR round.

  7. Louis Golino, Author says

    Also, since art is by definition subjective, any list of preferences is going to potentially seem arbitrary to someone who has different preferences.
    Marks and Wastweet (who have collaborated on many medals and coins) have a lot of experience producing different kinds of art, and in Heidi’s case training in art and has taught other artists how to sculpt (Marks is self-taught).

  8. Mint News Blog says

    @Louis Golino — Thanks for the correction! I was thinking Steve Roach still had a few weeks on the committee. (Here’s to fact-checking before posting!) Thanks also for your clarification on the list not being in order of importance, which I should have noted.

  9. Mint News Blog says

    Beautiful work! I think my favorite might be the studio medal with the fox (but I tend to be biased toward animals). Whenever I see a portfolio like this, I wonder what it’s like to be the owner of that much talent.

  10. Louis Golino, Author says

    No worries. I believe the meeting of the CCAC on Feb. 15 will be the first in which Kareem will participate, unless he was on the conference call meeting held a couple weeks ago.

    I freely admit to being biased towards Heidi because I admire her work a lot, and I find her to be a kind and thoughtful person. She also takes the time to interact with collectors and fans of her work.

    This article of mine discusses her work and Gary’s, among others: http://www.coinweek.com/expert-columns/louis-golino/coin-analyst-silver-art-rounds-now-widely-collected/

  11. Just Another Dave In Pa says

    I’m not blown away by any of her work (or Marks’). The Egyptian series is very cartoonish pop art to me. I like Soaring Liberty which is based on a Chilean Libertad design. It seems like the Chilean design is just overlaid on a Walking Liberty design with the Capitol building to the side for some unknown reason(maybe to Americanize it).

    Looking at the CCAC, until recently it was very white. Kareem, the politically appointed cultural ambassador, seems to be the one and only person of color and that was a very recent development.

    I don’t really know how the scores they assign are weighted but the new Liberty designs are obviously heavily weighted on the ethnic diversity standard. I look at the other standards and they seem completely at home on a piece of art but the ethnic diversity standard reeks of an agenda that most people easily pick up on. It’s very easy to ascribe racist views to any objections to this standard but that’s a short-sighted view.

    This is not art for art’s sake. They should look to the great poet Yeats for direction. Surely some revelation is at hand.

  12. says

    Thought folks might like to revisit the 2017 Liberty coin/medal design candidates, as we’ve been discussing this topic. Personally, I thought obverse design 21 was really striking.

    http://www.coinweek.com/us-mint-news/design-candidates-2017-american-liberty-high-relief-gold-coin/

    Yesterday, 2cents said, “One thing I would have suggested though, if Miss Liberty ever should be wearing the cap, it would have been this one…

    It appears obverse 07 features the Phrygian cap (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrygian_cap). I agree that would have been an interesting alternative to consider on the chosen design (as opposed to the starred headband).

    Many of these designs appear a bit cartoonish, though it may just be the sketches (and maybe they would look better as sculpted). I was wondering if folks here thought many of these candidate designs would even meet the standards that CCAC has set forth?

  13. says

    I don’t have a problem with bullet #4 Ethnic Ditvesity, but I don’t think the 225th anniversary coin should of a specific ethnic….to me “that dog don,the hunt” I actually like the coin, but not to represent the 225th anniversary of the US Mint

    I will spend my money on pre-1933 gold coins….especially Saint Gaudens and Indian Head coins.

  14. Barry says

    @ofd- Given the choices for the 2017 Liberty coin one of the better designs was selected. Looking at the alternatives it looks as though many were done by the same person. It seems the mint just doesn’t seek out talented artists to submit designs. Maybe that will change. Who knows?

  15. The Real "Cool" Brad says

    The CCAC didn’t do a very good job following their code sets for the national park silver dollar. Especially with relevancy between obverse and reverse. That is the most thematically disjointed two sides of a coin that I’m aware of

  16. DBR says

    @ The Real “Cool” Brad regarding the relevancy of obverse to reverse on the National Park Service coins, I remember the dust-up over the Latina dancer on the reverse of the dollar coin. Many couldn’t see the connection. The only connection I could make from life experience and could recall from my studies in Latin American culture was that in the Latino culture, they do value parks a great deal. I know many great parks are found around the world in every culture, but I was taught and have seen in Mexico and in Southern California the way Latinos embrace parks and use them for leisure and recreation. Not just families with kids but all people. City parks are where I’ve seen this, not sure about the the National Park system. The plaza and park could go hand in hand in Latino culture and the promenades are where they go to people watch and congregate.

    The prime example of this is the Bosque de Chapultepec in Mexico City in the entire Western Hemisphere. Latinos really do avail themselves of their local parks.

    Perhaps anyone on MNB who has Latino heritage could share about this. I have witnessed it myself in Southern California, but I am not a Latino. I just have some language and cultural fluency with Hispanoamerica.

    That’s the relevancy and connection I made between the obverse and reverse of that NPS commemorative dollar coin in 2016. I bought both Proof and uncirculated versions.

  17. data dave says

    @Old Big Bird – OT, I think you and I are the only ones interested in the S-mint quarters. I have a tracking spreadsheet and I agree with your assessment that the 2016 TR version is doing well and will probably be the big seller of the 2016 season. Looks like the Cumberland S mint might challenge Bombay Hook for the new low as it is 28 weeks behind at the current sales rate and likely only has about 20 more weeks of sales.

    Most of the time the Mint has been removing one from the site every time they add one. Which means that Shawnee might be gone next week.

    I am interested to see how sales go this year with the Presidential dollar series being over. That will free up some money that collectors might move to other series.

    I still think it would be neat if the mint released some of the s-mints into circulation.

  18. Old Big Bird says

    @ data dave – thanks for you thoughts on the ATB “S” quarters. I have been purchasing 6 rolls of each since they first came out. With such low mintages, I cannot see why they would be sleepers for the future. My best guess is that the day to day collector, who only get there collections from their loose change even knows that the “S” are out there. Some time in the future Mike Mizack of HSN/CSN will start hawking them on TV and that will spur some action. I think a full set of “S” will become a collectors item.

  19. says

    Until Diana posts Part 2 on this topic, I thought it might be worthwhile to dig a little deeper into some of the comments that ‘joe’, ‘VA Bob’, ‘Just Another Dave In PA’ and others have posted. And, as Diana has said, “the comments are as important as the content, if not more so“.

    It is incredibly obvious that some of these commenters feel it is wrong to deliberately choose an African-American representation of Liberty. It appears that these commenters believe (and by all means correct me if I mischaracterize your beliefs), that it is wrong to call attention to race, because that is in itself a kind of racism. Affirmative action is wrong because it “favors” one race over another.

    To quote an online source:
    “Affirmative Action is used in an attempt not only to eliminate discrimination, but to set right the effects of discrimination in the past. The policy was initiated in 1961 when President John F. Kennedy signed the Executive Order 10925, ordering all federally funded programs to take active steps to make sure that minority groups are employed and treated fairly. ”

    I believe it was ‘joe’ that said, “Although a black lady liberty just doesn’t inspire me, I would be all in for a Clarence Thomas coin. That man is inspirational to me because his values rise above the pettiness of “black and white.””

    As ‘Another Dave in PA’ said, “A black Liberty feels like some kind of cultural appropriation. True, we live in a melting pot and cultural exchange is inevitable but it feels off….Blacks don’t really care about black Liberty on a gold coin. They want reparations and jobs…. not some symbolic gesture.

    Can you really generalize about an entire group of people based on skin color Dave!? African-Americans care about a whole lot of things, just like European-Americans do.

    I personally believe that reparations are exactly what is needed to heal the racial divide in our country. Long overdue as a matter of fact. But many right-leaning white Americans believe that black people actually owe them a ‘thank you’ for ending slavery. Last month, Maine Governor Paul LePage said, “John Lewis ought to look at history. It was Abraham Lincoln that freed the slaves. It was Rutherford B. Hayes and Ulysses S. Grant that fought against Jim Crow laws. A simple thank you would suffice.

    It is known that many successful corporations profited significantly from slavery.
    http://occupywallstreet.net/story/15-major-corporations-you-never-knew-profited-slavery

    Wouldn’t it be appropriate for these companies to make financial reparations to the descendants of slaves?

    South Africa had a Truth and Reconciliation Commission.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth_and_Reconciliation_Commission_(South_Africa)

    Though the Commission requested $360 Million, in 2003 it was announced that $85 million was to be awarded to more than 19,000 victims of apartheid crimes (not much, but at least it is something).

    I think it comes down to the commonly held belief that every single American has the same exact opportunities, so therefore no one should receive assistance from government, affirmative action is wrong, etc. I think we are all familiar with that opinion, right?

    To understand how the descendants of slaves might consider their reality, it is worthwhile to imagine a hypothetical black kid that grows up in the inner city. Let’s say his/her great-great-grandfather was a slave. That free labor that his/her ancestor provided helped to build one or more of today’s corporations, as most of the major corporations that were founded by Western European and American merchants prior to roughly 100 years ago, benefited directly from slavery.

    So maybe this dirt poor black kid in the inner city has parents that beat on him every day and tell him he is basically worthless. Any idea why? The real reason behind this emotional/physical abuse? Well, in all likelihood, it’s multi-generational, and goes all the way back to that great-great-grandparent who was told every single day of his life by the slavemaster that he was worthless….and of course because his labor and energy were stolen from him (i.e., he wasn’t compensated), the message of worthlessness is enforced. Do you think he was a good parent to his kids? Likely not, because he had no self esteem whatsoever after being told again and again how worthless he was. Fast forward to the 1960’s (pre civil rights). Well, this message was still being communicated, as national policy, literally just a generation ago: remember the “separate but equal” charade of segregation?

    So here you have an impoverished child, who has a huge up hill battle of trying to do well in an overcrowded school, with parents at home who disregard his/her value (and certainly do not assist w/ school assignments).

    If he/she happens to manage to make it to college, do you think the government should assist with tuition?

    I feel it is easy to say that we should all “rise above the pettiness of “black and white.” And that is obviously the ideal that our society should be reaching for, but we have yet to fully consider the ramifications of our nation’s historic policies that are a root cause of contemporary social issues, and which have put so many (black) Americans in a hole they cannot dig out of.

    As Robert said,
    The only reason the Liberty figure’s race is being debated is because racism (and racist attitudes) still prevail throughout America.

    The day the U.S. Mint can produce a coin featuring a black Liberty that barely gets noticed just may be the day America has moved past the issue of race and on to more important matters.

  20. Sith says

    @data dave – I also get the “S” rolls. I started to get rolls (D&P) with low mintages on the territories quarters. I rolled that into getting the low mintage ATBs quarters, and then included the “S” quarters, once they were available . After the normal mint’s mintages recovered I was glad that the mint continued “S” quarter production because I could continue to justify buying the “S” rolls. Maybe having a complete collection of rolls will be worth something someday, but so far it has not panned out, but if people start to collect the ATBs like the State quarters…

  21. Throckmorton says

    Give me designs that evoke a sense of movement. The $100 plats are excellent examples. You have to have some sort of committee to make recommendations. Some will be home runs and others will be whiffs. I can’t see how a collector/basketball player brings as much to the table as an editor of a prominent numismatic magazine but we are where we are. The final vote will be the economic vote. However, the conundrum collectors face is that while a coin may be so butt-ugly that no one buys it, the scarcity/rarity caused by low purchases may drive the same coin to become desirable.

  22. TomP, in Va says

    In the list of design criteria, where is the mention of being faithful to the purpose of the coin?
    For the National Parks featured on the quarters, I believe they should draw interest, support and tourism to the featured parks. For many parks, many people are drawn to the topography, flora and fauna. For the 2013 designs, the CCAC showed a definite bias against including animals. The White Mountain candidates included a bird, deer and a moose. The bird and deer portrayed were determined too small for quarters (the bird was large and prominent on the design). The moose was mentioned as too common to other states to be included for this park. Really? Deer were common to many household yards in No. Va where I had lived for many years and now are now in my yard in Chesapeake. I suspect Moose aren’t nearly as common because a few months after the article on the committee discussion In Coinupdate (linked from MNB blog on Feb. 20, 2012), an article appeared in the WaPo travel section on how Maine moose sighting tours are a thriving business. What got to me (other than the P, R. coin) was any other animal featured on a quarter unique to that park or state? The chosen coin is attractive but with a truncated storyline. The committee also excluded the Mountain Sheep on the Great Basin design leaving a special tree but with no background topography to tell much.
    Bring back Bullwinkle!

    http://news.coinupdate.com/ccac-review-of-america-the-beautiful-quarter-designs-1222/

  23. Barry says

    OT remark. – I recently got a few Rt. 66 silver rounds from APMEX. The route shield looks like those you see on the highway today. I was looking at some 18th century Spanish gold coins and noticed the shield is the same design as the route markers on the road. I was amazed but, I’m sure some here already knew this.

  24. Old Big Bird says

    Mint New Blog – Here we go again. I replied to data dave earlier and I know I saw my posted listed. Here it is about 4 hours later and not only is my post gone, are no posts since 9:19am. I find that hard to believe.
    ??????????????????

  25. Old Big Bird says

    Mint News – boy I just asked why my early response to data dave went and now that post which I saw go up is gone and the comments count went back to 19 and no posts since 9:19am. You HAVE TO BE HAVING A PROBLEM

  26. Old Big Bird says

    Mint News they are back again. Simply amazing sorry if you are having system problems and am poking fun

  27. Mint News Blog says

    @Old Big Bird, I just got back to my desk after running errands (it’s 3:17 eastern), and it looks like your comments have come through. One was being held for moderation, but that was because it contained two hyperlinks. (Anything more than one and the filter suspects it’s spam.) Let me know if everything hasn’t come through by now.

  28. Mint News Blog says

    Also, I just checked the spam and trash folders, and they don’t contain anything but legitimate garbage (and oh, some of the garbage they contain). If any regular comments are still missing, they must be hung up in a server somewhere. I’ve had that happen with my phone in the past — messages got hung up for days in some remote server, then suddenly dumped into my mailbox at once. Not sure if that’s the case here, but it’s a possibility…

  29. Just Another Dave In Pa says

    @ one fine dime – you really need to work on your comprehension skills.

    There was a comment about a cap that was obviously meant to suggest that a cap was needed to cover the cornrow hairdo but it just went over your head.

    You previously characterized my affirmative action comment as racist but now you’re saying that yes it is affirmative action (according to your definition). Polls suggest that a majority of blacks support reparations. Deal with it. Apparently you support reparations too.

    You see what you want to see. You should try to improve your comprehension instead of jumping to conclusions based on your very limited experience.

  30. Barry says

    ot- I recently purchased some Rt. 66 silver rounds. The shield on this round is the same as you see on the highway markers. Then I was looking at some 18th century Spanish gold coins and was amazed to see the shield on those old gold coins is the same as the highway markers. No doubt some of you know this already.

  31. Mint News Blog says

    Update on the disappearing-comment situation: I’ve had a couple of emails about vanishing comments, but as of 8:30 EST on Friday, there are no comments being held for moderation, and no new ones in the spam or trash folders. I’ve disabled a few widgets that are no longer in use, to see if they’re causing the problem. Over the next 24 hours, I’ll keep selectively disabling/removing additional widgets; if the problems persist, I’ll reboot the blog tomorrow night.

    Apologies for the hassle — if it’s frustrating for me, I know it must be doubly frustrating for regular Mint News Bloggers.

  32. Mattarch says

    Yes I am collecting the S-Mint Quarters but not at the roll level. One full set is enough for me. I don’t have the storage space to be speculating long term in coins.

  33. says

    I didn’t see a link to the referenced 20-page document from 2014 called, “How to Make Friends and Influence the Committee (a.k.a. How to Get Picked).“, but, if anyone is interested, I found that on the CCAC’s website here:

    https://www.ccac.gov/media/aboutUs/specialReports/Medallic-Design-Elements.pdf

    Very interesting. This includes examples of all of the 16 design elements in that bullet list (Diana included a few here) as well as the American Numismatic Iconography.

    One example of the improvement in artistic quality over just the past decade might be evident in the representation of the eagle on the obverse of the 2008 Bald Eagle commemorative $1 coin, compared to the reverse on the recent 2015 and the new 2017 Liberty coins. These images can all be found here (with the 2008 commemorative via the “Historical Image Library” link at the top): https://www.usmint.gov/about_the_mint/coinLibrary/index.html

    While designer Joel Iskowitz is incredibly talented, the 2008 obverse bald eagle design just doesn’t seem anywhere near the quality of these more recent Liberty reverse designs by Paul C. Balan (2015 gold Liberty) and Chris Costello (2017 gold Liberty). The design details are just totally lacking on the 2008 coin compared to these recent eagle renditions. I also think ‘Thoughtfully balanced negative spaces’ is far weaker on the 2008 coin.

    I completely agree with ‘The Real “Cool” Brad’ and ‘DBR’ about the 2016 NPS silver dollar missing the mark, especially in regards to “Relevancy of obverse to reverse”! I had even reached out to Mary Lannin at the CCAC via email to inquire how in the world could ‘old faithful’ be appearing on a commemorative silver dollar again (remember, this geyser was also on the obverse of the 1999 Yellowstone silver dollar).

    She had replied with the following:
    I understand your points about the 2016 National Park Commemorative $1 Silver. When Congress enacts Commemorative Coin legislation, as we have discussed in correspondence, a recipient organization (or organizations) is designated in the legislation. The United States Mint contacts the recipient organization – in the case of the 2016 National Park Commemorative Coin program – and links the recipient organization’s thoughts and themes with the Mint artists. As the legislation directs, the Mint consults and is obligated to render designs according to the themes adopted by the National Park Service and it’s foundation. The CCAC, the Commission of Fine Arts, the Mint, and the Secretary must obviously allow a great deal of difference [sic] to the wishes of the recipient organizations. The CCAC makes every effort to offer advice and counsel all recipient organizations about the coinability, historic value, and the art on a coin. The Secretary has a number of issues to balance and after considering our counsel made the decision. One that the CCAC supports.

  34. Mint News Blog says

    @one fine dime, thanks for mentioning the link — I forgot to include it, but I’ve added it to the post.

    Also, thanks for sharing your correspondence with Mary Lannin, and her reminder that with respect to the commemorative coins, they have to consider wishes of the recipient organizations. Here’s hoping that the Muhammad Ali Center has good ideas and is an agreeable partner in design. Assuming the Ali commemorative law passes, of course.

  35. cagcrisp says

    March’s Mint schedule is Up.

    February schedule has a Total of 5 offerings. Only 1 (ATB Silver proof set) will take any money.

    March schedule has a Total of 15 offerings. A Few will take Serious dollars. The Complete Launch of the AGE’s and the Proof ASE.

    Sandwiched in between The AGE’s and the proof ASE will be the lost offering of the 5 oz. animal cracker “P” puck and the lost offerings of Boys Town.

    In a 35 day period (March 2nd -April 6th), the Mint will generate Over 50% of the entire remaining revenue for FY17…

  36. Dustyroads says

    From my point of view I see two interesting issues coming out of the Mint this year; the 1 oz. Palladium coin with the proposed obverse and reverse, and the return of Buffalo fractional gold coins, both of which may not even happen. All in all, it should be another interesting year.

  37. Dustyroads says

    Mint News Blog,

    I also have been having problems with the site. Until I posted my above post, I had not been able to see any posts beyond post #11.

  38. Dustyroads says

    Update on my own access problem to the comments– deleting all my cookies fixed the problem.

  39. Old Bird Bird says

    Mint News – There is a definite problem all of the post from yesterday are gone and it is back to 19 comments.
    Also my name and email address are both empty. If I go back to the article before this one, I see that you are finding items in the spam folder and that link still has my name and email address shown there.

  40. Old Big Bird says

    @ Dustyroads – After I sent the last post I was able to see your post and I also emptied the cookies. That seems to have worked. I usually clear them daily. Thanks

  41. gatortreke says

    A quick comment on the coins shown above in support of the different aspects of coin design, the Canadian 2011 $20 for $20 Canoe design is one of my favorite designs of the past few years. truly well done. I only wish it were made on a larger coin.

  42. Dustyroads says

    Old Big Bird,

    If you haven’t deleted your cookies, I think it will fix your problem.

    If you’re using Windows, just go to “tools”, then to “Options”, then to “Privacy”. You will then be able to find “Delete individual cookies”, click on it, then choose “Delete all cookies”. You will also have to refresh the page once you return to MNB, or simply exit and log on again. Best wishes fellow “S” AtB quarter believer.

  43. Dustyroads says

    Old Big Bird,

    Oops, I see your comment., glad it worked. Wife was vacuuming and caused me to post late.

  44. Big Old Bird says

    @Dustyroads – I wish I had started collecting the State Quarter rolls, but I did not get back into heavy collecting mode until 2007. I did get 2 or more rolls of P’s & D’s of all of the president and Native American

    There is a item called Really Useful Boxes and it has a 16 0.3 liter boxes in one larger 5 sided box.
    You can put 4 or 6 rolls depending on which rolls they are in one 0.3 liter box. Makes for condense storage.
    BUT it can get heavy but as my name states I am big so it works for me LOL

  45. Dustyroads says

    Big Old Bird,

    I think the MNB site may still have a few glitches in it. Maybe Diana can turn the squelch knob a little more.

    Since I dedicated myself to collecting the “S” circulation quality quarters, I also found the nice blue US Mint presentation box on the Mint website. I know it’s not needed, but I like the clean orderly look. I don’t collect anything else other than the silver proof sets. In fact, I was collecting the 5 oz. bullion and vapor blast coins, but decided to quit this year and save up for possibly a Buffalo or Winged Liberty Palladium coin. We’ll see what comes of it.

  46. cagcrisp says

    @Dustyroads, Financially you will be Ahead to quit the “P” pucks. The bullion pucks are just a play on Silver and relatively easy way to dollar cost average. If you’re going to dollar cost average I Much prefer a 20 roll bullion ASE vs. pucks.

    Demographics are changing and it’s better to figure that out Sooner vs. Later.

    10,000 baby boomers hit the age of 65 Every day until 2030…

  47. Dustyroads says

    cagcrisp,

    When I began with the 5 oz. coins, it was mostly fascination with the “P” pucks. The bullion pucks fit the bill easily, but there simply is no denying that there is a much larger market available for the ASE. I don’t follow ending prices of the “P” pucks on line, but I have always assumed that they would trend along initial prices, so I’ve been happy with that. I just can’t ignore the smaller market and that’s something that I’ve decided that I don’t want to gamble on. However, I do like the changing art on each coin. Anyway is alright by me, I can leave it without a problem.
    Same thing with the Queen’s Beasts. I bought several of the 2 oz. lions with plans to match the following issues each year, but I’m now thinking about the specialized market surrounding these and have decided to hold off on any future purchases. I just like the fact that the ASE has such an enormous following.

    I can guarantee you that when the 2017 Liberty medals became available, I will only be interested if the Mint is sweetening the deal with something other than different finishes. In fact, please stop me if I should change my mind.

  48. jayjaspersgarage on ebay says

    Excellent article. Interesting comment thread. I work full-time and run my ebay biz six days a week when I have the energy. I still read most of the comments but don’t have the time to post and respond actively.

    I still buy “S” Mint quarter rolls to spend around the San Francisco Bay Area and Wyoming when I am there. I have been doing that for twenty years or so.

    I have been leaning toward buying Sovereigns since the final gold 1916 commemorative Centennial coin was released. I like my 2016 Centennial Gold set and only have had one issue with one of the four Mercury Centennial Dimes that developed a small red line. It will be sent to PCGS for an attempt to restore it. It is still in the original mint packaging.

    Finally. Sold off about 3800 pounds of silver yesterday…..to a Toyota dealership! Ok, I traded in a silver Tacoma for a newer model after 14 years. Ha!

    That’s it for now.

    Jay

  49. cagcrisp says

    OT…Completely

    Today is Super Bowl Sunday. Today is the Biggest Legal/Illegal gambling day in the United States (World Cup is bigger worldwide).

    New England Patriots are -3 with Over/Under 59 points. What Most writers, columnists and Non gambler get Wrong is that “The bookmakers think the New England Patriots will win the game by 3 points”.

    Could NOT be any further from the truth. The bookmakers (or for that matter any successful gambler) does NOT want to gamble. They like sure things or at least More predictable outcomes. Gambling on the Super Bowl, both legal and illegal, can be a very profitable sure thing situation IF done properly.

    New England being a 3 point favorite does NOT mean the sport books think New England will win by 3 points. New England being -3 means that books think they can get near EQUAL money from betters wanting the Patriots -3 and near EQUAL money from betters wanting the Atlanta Falcons +3. That is what a line means. Hopefully the books get the line right and they get near EQUAL money on both sides of the equation and it does NOT matter which team wins because IF they get near EQUAL money the books win No Matter What.

    Back in the Dark Ages I used to be a Small part of setting gambling lines. Now it’s all done with computers, however, pre-computers it was done by hand and influential gamblers were released a ‘preliminary line’ and they in turn would tear the line apart. Once those gamblers got finished, the books released an actual betting line for the public.

    Everything changed January 21st 1979 when the Pittsburg Stealers beat the Dallas Cowboys 35-31. Every, and I mean Every, sports book in Las Vegas Lost money. That had never happened before and it has never happened since.

    Books learned from their mistake and that Should never happen again. Get the same amount on both sides and just take the “juice” “vigorish” or simply the vig and be happy with the dollar volume and the Numerous prop bets that are now very lucrative (for books and not betters)…

  50. HarryB says

    Very interesting article on the CCAC. My observation over the last 10 years of purchasing Mint products and daily reading of blogs and discussion forums like NGC’s is that collector sales are not largely design or subject driven, but are a function of the active collectors, and to a lesser extent by investors. @cag has revealed the major reason for declining Mint Collector sales, the “Baby Boomers” are the principal market. No amount of design quality or subject matter will reverse the slow decline. Sadly we have no direct heirs and there appears to be little interest in nieces or nephews despite having given Silver eagles every year with Christmas gifts, and 1/10 eagles for High School or college graduation, no interest in coin collecting has grown. Even among the Eagle Scouts. I have now discontinued my collection of US Commeratives, annual Mint sets, and P pucks, and am considering ways to dispose of my collection. I will continue some mint purchases, but all good things come to an end eventually.

  51. Barry says

    Overpricing, mint to demand / availability to buy for a year and poor aftermarket value are also factors. Clad coins or token money as see them is almost always a non starter for me.

  52. Mint News Blog says

    REVISED: I’d planned to reboot at noon, but I’m having some technical issues. Thus, there won’t be any warning as to when the reboot will happen. If you’re writing a lengthy comment, I suggest doing so in a separate document, then pasting it into the comment field here. Otherwise, if the reboot happens before you can hit “post,” your whole comment will be lost.

    Sorry for the inconvenience; hoping today is the last day we have blog problems.

  53. So Krates says

    The last true mint to demand products I’ve bought have held up reasonably well. The 2013 Reverse Proof Gold Buffalo and the ASE WP Sets both had a small ordering window. You still have a few gold grid price adjustment periods in there to speculate if you’re not a label chaser. The Buff is about the same (relative to gold spot price) and the WP set is still near issue price. Everyone got one and no mad rush. MTD is not all bad.

  54. So Krates says

    @ Silky – I think cagcrisp mentioned 17,000 so far. Check the website. As to availability, you are half right. The US Mint will only sell bullion APEs to Authorized Purchasers. These APs however can and do sell to other large dealers who are not APs. Then you and I may buy from APs who retail or those secondary dealers who are not “authorized” to sell.

  55. says

    re: So Krates response @ 12:18PM

    Thank you.

    I have never understood such a system BUT so many of the coins that I like are significantly cheaper from A. P.s (Pucks) than the excessively packaged U.S. Mint equivalents.

    Shame the mint does not offer option of reduced price for coins that will not have the tough to store packaging.

    I would think that a ‘packing option’ would encourage new collectors.

    Semper Fi.

  56. cagcrisp says

    @Silky, “Any idea as to mintage number of one ((1) ounce 2017 P.T. Bu. coin available only through authorized dealers?”

    20,000…

  57. mgm says

    When did a 2016 SP silver eagle come out? PCGS is grading them that way. No NGC coins being graded that way. Does anyone know what’s up?

  58. Mattarch says

    Regarding Silky’s comment on U.S. Mint Packaging, I suggest the Mint look into the future and realize eventually 3-D printers will be common. The Mint could sell just coins and then if you want the packaging you purchase a download code separately from the coin and ‘print’ your own packaging.

    No more waiting for the packaging to arrive from China before the coin can ship.

  59. Keep Calm & Stack On! says

    @ Harry –

    You of all people, I’m surprised to hear that.., actually somewhat disheartened to hear you say that as I believe we’re close in age, if I recall correctly. Though with that said, I understand why as I too have also pulled back majorly after 10 years of collecting and will selectively target a few certain high dollar offerings each year. I presume that you’ll let your FS and AGE’s ride out over time? I personally would with your holdings, you have time on your side and in 5 years probably will be making nice coin on them just on inherent value, just a thought.

    WRT to your assessment of the ‘active collectors,’ I agree wholeheartedly (though I am going back and collecting eagle designs that I like) and inclined to think the core base of active collectors drive the major sales numbers.

    By the way, I enjoyed your acq process/appropriations/’focused energy post from late last year, and so very true. It actually reaffirmed something I had been experiencing; I’ve been knee deep working a big one since last fall and anxious to see it submit in a few weeks. The 17 supplemental activity could get very interesting, and I hope you all benefit from it down there.

    Good luck in selling off some of the collection. When you have decided on a venue or path forward, I’d actually like to hear of it. I’ve been doing some house cleaning of my own and have found that its the high dollar or those items with high numismatic premium (perceived, or what you really think its worth) that have a liquidity challenge, simply stated, some of this stuff that’s top of the line is hard to move and the market is very soft. None-the-less, there is a broad market of eager buyers if the price is right within the wholesale arena. I personally think everyone that is building a collection should try to liquidate some items for the experience just to see that what you think that it’s worth may not align with the readily available basket of buyers. FYI – liquidating during March thru May and October to December seems to work best from my experience. I’m socking away every penny I have into some sector eft’s in a retirement account now, though should you prefer not to feed the fleabay in disposing of the commems, drop Diane a note as I’m sure she’ll be kind enough to forward you my email and perhaps I can lend a hand.., I really like eagle designs 😉
    By the way, my old ‘foreign legion’ squadron is now getting yanked back stateside after all these decades, how time flies by. If you haven’t done so, do make a point to see the museum at P’cola, first class, you would really enjoy it; Best!

  60. HarryB says

    @KC&SO: yes, I am sticking with the FS, Burnished Eagles, and Buffalos, and any “Tribute” gold the Mint may issue over the coming years. Plus continue to complete my ASE proof collection., and keep my “Coins and Cronicles” sets. Thanks for the disposition comments, I will not use eBay. Am developing excell spreadsheets to offer collections to the bigger dealers. I will follow up with Diane in about 2 weeks and be in touch. Things are really popping at work, looks like we are going back to the Moon! Harry

  61. data dave says

    OT on FS gold coins. I did notice that the Mint has changed its site to say “farewell” to these coins. Probably can get away with that ruse for about 6 months before they will have to try something else. A brief check on ebay shows that the Coolidge and Roosevelt proofs are about the only two that are selling for a premium right now. Assuming you could get $1000 over spot for both of those, that would average to $50 over spot for the 41 coin series if you could get the rest at spot. If the Ford proof sells a couple of more, those two will be the keys to the Proof series.

    Seems to be less interest on the UNC side of things with none of the previous coins going for much over spot and the new issues setting new lows. Even if the speculators step in on this side, they will just be looking to flip anyway. A lot fewer collectors on the UNC side.

    Any series that cost $25K at current spot is always going to be tough.

  62. Blair J. Tobler says

    Federal Register will be posting Boys Town prices for silver and clad:

    SUMMARY: The United States Mint is announcing pricing for the 2017 Boys Town Centennial
    Commemorative Coin Program as follows:

    Coin Introductory Price Regular Price
    Boys Town Centennial Proof Silver Dollar $47.95 $52.95
    Boys Town Centennial Uncirculated Silver Dollar $46.95 $51.95
    Boys Town Centennial Proof Half Dollar $21.95 $26.95
    Boys Town Centennial Uncirculated Half Dollar $20.95 $25.95

  63. cagcrisp says

    @HarryB, “I have now discontinued my collection of US Commeratives, annual Mint sets, and P pucks, and am considering ways to dispose of my collection.” You’re observations will be repeated Thousands and Thousands of times in the next 20 years.

    No amount of design quality or subject matter will reverse the slow decline.” I completely Agree.

    I do think there is Hope for the future but not with the current way the Mint is being managed…

  64. The Real "Cool" Brad says

    I figured this was a new post, but instead most of the comments were removed? Is there a posting guideline for the future so I know what will be removed? I posted a comment that was on topic and not politically motivated and not demeaning of others’ opinions and it looks like it was sanitized.

  65. The Real "Cool" Brad says

    Nevermind, for some reason it was only showing 11 comments, once my previous post went through it showed more.

  66. Dustyroads says

    Real “Cool”,

    If you’re still having trouble, try deleting your cookies. I had 0 comments past #11 for a full day. Deleting the comments worked for me.

  67. cagcrisp says

    1. The HR Liberty was Not supposed to be a series
    2. We were Supposed to get a 1792 Flowing Hair Gold for 225 years
    3. Now the HR Liberty is Supposed to be a series
    4. We are Not getting a 1792 Flowing Hair Gold for 225 years
    5. The 1792 Flowing Hair Gold would sell $84,500,000 (50,000 x $1,690.00) in One Year
    6. What does the Chosen 2017 HR design have to do with 225 years?
    7. Answer to #6 is Nothing
    8. Why not do the 1792 Flowing Hair in 2017, pocket the $84,500,000 and Then (if the 2017 HR is such a good idea?) roll it out in 2018?
    9. So why oh why would the Mint do away with a sure thing 1792 Flowing Hair Gold and $84,500,000 and HAVE to get the chosen design HR Launched in 2017?
    10. What is the Need to get the 2017 HR Launched in 2017 vs. 2018?…

  68. Dustyroads says

    cagcrisp,

    I thought the “flowing hair” was never anything more than wishful thinking. Was it ever seriously under consideration?
    Secondly. the 2017 HR is far too in to production to stop.
    Lastly, I’m convinced that a great deal of good ideas get lost before they ever reach the top, and IF they do reach the top, they probably will have no chance of being used.
    A good example would be the other line art candidates we have seen competing against the chosen designs. They don’t actually expect those hideous designs to be taken seriously, do they? I think it was already a done deal.

  69. cagcrisp says

    @Dustyroads, The possibility of Flowing Hair or an Alternative 1792 design was mentioned by a couple of coin publications that it was being Discussed by the Mint.

    How far it got within the Heirarchy of the Mint is undetermined…

  70. Dustyroads says

    Okay, was not aware of that. Thought it was primarily the wishful thinking of one particular semi-regular.

    Mind blowing game last night. I imagine some very relived bettors.

  71. Gary Not Dave says

    Do we know how many of the 2016 W Uncirculated Silver Eagles the Mint produced? So far 167,607 have been sold since Jan 29 2017.

    So I understand correctly, the Mint cannot produce anymore of these in 2017. So how many did they produce in 2016?
    It might be possible that the 2016 W Burnished will be the 4th lowest mintage.?

    1) 1995 W Proof Silver Eagle 30,125 mintage
    2) 2011 S Burnished Silver Eagle 99,882 mintage
    3) 2011 Reverse Proof Silver Eagle 99.882 mintage
    4) 2016 W Burnished Silver Eagle 167,607 mintage (So Far)
    5) 2013 W Burnished Silver Eagle 221,981 mintage

    So the Mint needs to sell 54,375 more 2016 Burnished Silver Eagles to move that coin to 5th place.
    Any thoughts?
    Thanks!

  72. Gary Not Dave says

    Correction: 167,807 mintage so far

    so need to sell 54,575 more to move 2016 W to 5th place.

    Sorry

  73. Brad says

    Gary Not Dave,

    Remember that the 2016 W ASE is also included in the Annual Uncirculated Dollar Coin Set, which has sold 15,325 sets through 1/29. So, there have been 183,132 of them sold in total, with a new update coming tomorrow.

    I could be wrong of course, but I suspect the Mint may have capped production of the 2016 W ASE to 200,000 units, sold in the form of 180,000 singles and 20,000 AUDC sets. I base that on seeing what happened with the 2016 ATB Quarters Uncirculated Coin Set (16AA). That set mysteriously sold out at only 29,559 sets. That number bears a striking resemblance to the total number of sets sold for the 2014 and 2015 sets in that series so far, with no end in sight for those. The Mint appears to have produced the 2016 set to the level they could expect to sell within a reasonable period of time. If they used that same strategy with the 2016 W ASE, then 180K singles and 20K AUDC sets makes some sense. I suppose they may have gone with 225,000 (200,000 singles and 25,000 AUDC sets), but 200,000 makes sense too.

    We may not have to wait too much longer to see if that is indeed the production strategy the Mint used. With sales of many products on the decline and then languishing in the catalog for so long, the Mint may have taken steps to try to reduce the frequency of that scenario with more products than just the 16AA.

  74. Gary Not Dave says

    Thanks Brad!
    Possibly even with that extra 15,325 mintage we could still have the 4th lowest mintage Silver Eagle.

    Thanks again for you input! Very much appreciated!

  75. Tony says

    mgm,

    The London Coin Company sells the original Royal Mint screw type capsule for the 2 oz. Queen’s Beast but who’s going to pay $30.00 for a capsule.

  76. mgm says

    I guess don’t buy the Queen’s Beast from Provident like I posted because their description states: Please note: the 2 oz Queen’s Beast Silver Coins will rattle slightly within the capsule.

    “Never Mind”

  77. Mintman says

    It’s probably the same capsule they sell for their 2oz high relief rounds
    I used one of those for queens beast coins and they are right, it rattles around

  78. Dustyroads says

    The 2 inch flips are a decent fit for the Queen’s Beasts. Any bigger and they wouldn’t fit, but not bad.

  79. Barry says

    Anyone here from Colorado ? I read the Supreme court upheld a notification law last December requiring out of state internet retailers ( that meet certain criteria) )to report information about instate purchasers so as to collect a use tax. Any thoughts ?

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