U.S. Mint 2017 First-Day Bullion-Coin Sales

(Photos courtesy of APMEX)

(Photos courtesy of APMEX)

The Mint has announced its first-day bullion-coin sales figures. The 2017-dated American Eagle gold and silver bullion coins and American Buffalo gold coins were first made available for sale to Authorized Purchasers (APs) on January 9 this year.

Sales of American Eagle gold bullion coins, at 68,000 ounces, exceeded last year’s volume by nearly 15%. Unit sales, by size, are as follows:

  • 1 oz. – 46,000 coins
  • 1/2 oz. – 16,000 coins
  • 1/4 oz. – 26,000 coins
  • 1/10 oz. – 75,000 coins

Authorized Purchasers bought 3,747,500 ounces of American Eagle silver bullion coins—almost 35% more than on last year’s launch date. The figure for American Buffalo gold bullion coins was ever so slightly down: 20,500 ounces on the first day for 2017, as opposed to 21,000 ounces in 2016.


2016 2017
  Coins Ounces Coins Ounces
American Eagle Gold Bullion Coins
1/10 oz.  70,000  7,000  75,000  7,500
1/4 oz.  22,000  5,500  26,000  6,500
1/2 oz.  12,000  6,000  16,000  8,000
1 oz.  41,500  41,500  46,000  46,000
All Gold Eagle Coins  145,500  60,000  163,000  68,000
American Eagle Silver Bullion Coins
1 oz.  2,756,500  2,756,500  3,747,500  3,747,500
American Eagle Gold Buffalo Bullion Coins
1 oz.  21,000  21,000  20,500  20,500
All Gold Bullion Coins  166,500  81,000  183,500  88,500

American Eagle gold and silver bullion coins and American Buffalo gold bullion coins are available from Authorized Purchasers, including APMEX.

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  1. Macro H. says

    Why several dealers have recently been aggressively selling first spouse gold coins on bay? Spent too much working capital on gold liberties and national parks gold. Now Credit card bills are due. So they have to price their spouse coins very aggressively. The silver lining is that there are several aggressive buyers around to offset the sudden selling pressure.

  2. a Bob says

    I would like to see an incused American silver eagle. And I don’t want to wait for the 50th anniversary.

  3. merryxmasmrscrooge says

    742 Nat. Pk. Serv. 2016 gold UNC sold in one week. Freakin insane.
    Biggest disappointment of 2016 numismatics.
    Guess all you top 1%ers who got money from your daddies cashed in.
    well, anyway, men, enjoy.

  4. KML in KY says

    Macro H – I always wanted an extra Liberty subset of First Spouse coins and was able to get a great deal on eBay on an NGC MS70 set which I plan to hold onto for a long time. As far as modern coins go it’s a good time to buy and , with a few exceptions, a bad time to sell.

  5. cagcrisp says

    Could be some Very Disappointed people today…

    IF you are looking to see New sales numbers on the Gold Unc NPS, IF the Mint follows past protocol, you will Not see Any numbers today.

    For the past few years Once year end sales numbers are posted on commemoratives , That’s It. No revisions. Nothing…

  6. cagcrisp says

    Could be some Very Disappointed people concerning the Chasing of the Low Mintage Wonder of the First Spouse series.

    The clubhouse leader is E. Roosevelt on the uncirculated side with 1,886. Within 6% of 1,886 are 6 other FS uncirculated coins that are Currently in the clubhouse.

    The Last Time we got Audited Figures from the Mint on the FS series was in February 2014. At that time there was a FS coins adjusted Upwards as much as 6% and there were FS coins adjusted Downward as much as 13%.

    …SO… It wouldn’t take much revision on uncirculated E. Roosevelt Downward and much revision Upward on 6 other FS uncirculated to make this interesting…

  7. cagcrisp says

    In Above comment concerning FS coins it’s just as plausible that E. Roosevelt Could be revised Downward just as easily as Upward.

    At this time there is just No way of knowing what FS coin in the clubhouse will be the Low Mintage Wonder (at this time).

    There is hope for those NOT wanting E. Roosevelt. Before the last audited figures were released Lucy Hayes was the clubhouse leader and After the audited figures were released it was Replaced by Lucretia Garfield.

    You just have to wait until audited figures…

  8. data dave says

    @cagcrisp – More people are collecting the proof over the UNC version of FS gold. Looking at the numbers on the proof side, the 2014 coins will be the low mintages with only the Ford proof yet to hit the 2400 level to surpass them. But if you are really looking at the key coin, I still think it is the Eleanor proof will be the key coin to that set even though the Coolidge proof has slightly lower mintage.

    On the UNC side of things, those chasing the low mintage wonder are going to lose money. Whereas the Truman proof sold 200 more (real sales not speculators), the Truman UNC has sold 100 less than previous 2014 lows.

    I would rather have 1 of 2377 proof ERs than 1 of 1501 UNC Fords.

  9. Joseph says

    that’s right. . there will be no any 2016 commemorative number today. a flipper’s shocker. LOL
    5201 is the final mintage. it will or will NOT be changed depend on how the audit goes. but that will be years from now. so filppers watch out, your CC bill is coming…. LOL return it/them if you are still lucky in those 7 days

    cagcrisp says
    JANUARY 10, 2017 AT 7:47 AM

    Could be some Very Disappointed people today…

    IF you are looking to see New sales numbers on the Gold Unc NPS, IF the Mint follows past protocol, you will Not see Any numbers today.

    For the past few years Once year end sales numbers are posted on commemoratives , That’s It. No revisions. Nothing…

  10. cagcrisp says

    @data dave , “I would rather have 1 of 2377 proof ERs than 1 of 1501 UNC Fords.”

    I would rather have a Gold MS $2.50 or Gold MS $5.00 from Either Charlotte or Dahlonega with Higher Mintage…

  11. Macro H. says

    Agree that ER may not be the unc key.
    My strategy to catch the low mintage wonder,
    Buy Bess Truman and bird Johnson unc. now (they could be pulled anytime) Start to aggressively buy ford and Nixon unc. If their numbers are below 1800 by year end.

  12. earthling says


    ” ” 742 Nat. Pk. Serv. 2016 gold UNC sold in one week. Freakin insane.
    Biggest disappointment of 2016 numismatics.
    Guess all you top 1%ers who got money from your daddies cashed in.
    well, anyway, men, enjoy. “” “”

    Haha good one. But I think the 1%’ers are in the “Pogue” Arena chasing those colorfully corroded $multimillion pieces of yesterdays pocket change.

    Must be nice to get money for nothing and throw it away on basically nothing. Corroded nickels pennies and dimes are basically ” nothing” , as compared to housing or even planes.

  13. Brad says

    Does anyone remember the exact date that the 2013 FS coins were pulled off-sale? I know sales continued into 2015 (when prior practice early on had been to pull them off sale after approximately one year), but I don’t remember for how long. I do remember that they were pulled versus actually selling out. When they disappeared and someone on here mentioned it, I made the joke that I had bought them all myself, on the condition that the Mint would remove them from the website completely instead of listing them as “currently unavailable” for months!

    If the 2015’s are granted the “mercy killling”, it might not be until the end of the first or second quarter of 2017. I just can’t remember when that happened for the 2013’s. Anyone know?

  14. Macro H. says

    2013 spouse coins were pulled around 20 months after debut.
    That’s why I am thinking about buying a couple of Bess Truman unc now.

  15. cagcrisp says

    @Brad, “Does anyone remember the exact date that the 2013 FS coins were pulled off-sale?”

    2013 FS GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ – MCKINLEY 2,724 7/26/2015
    2013 FS GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ – ROOSEVLT 2,840 7/26/2015
    2013 FS GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ – TAFT 2,598 9/27/2015
    2013 FS GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ – WILSON 1ST 2,511 9/27/2015
    2013 FS GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ – WILSON 2ND 2,464 9/27/2015
    2013 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – MCKINLEY 2,016 7/19/2015
    2013 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – ROOSEVLT 2,027 7/26/2015
    2013 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – TAFT 1,993 9/27/2015
    2013 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – WILSON 1ST 1,980 9/27/2015
    2013 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – WILSON 2ND 1,974 9/27/2015

  16. earthling says

    Some of the Spouse Scraps still on the table are indeed looking choice – number wise. BUT they are so hideous, you just got to hesitate…. for a while.. actually for a long time. You have to ask yourself , do I feel lucky? If no one wants them today, will anyone want them a month after they go off sale? And what if the Mint never takes them off sale?

    Remember the 1999 Proof Susan B Anthony $1’s? Those were only around $9.99 each and they stayed on the site for several years until they finally sold out.

    So you want to buy a hideous 1/2 ounce of Gold that no one wants at the original issue price? You want it to be pulled, leaving you with a very low mintage homerun? You want your Coins to be HOTT to the point of a 10X return on your money?

    All I can say is – good luck on that dream. Hope it works out for you.

    Think about it. No one wants these Doggs at $900 ( or in that neighborhood). Will anyone want that same ugly Coin at $9,000? Yeah, don’t we all want to be the one holding that deal.

  17. HarryB says

    @cag: A question: can you derive a method to make an educated guess on the number of FS collectors who have built a collection or are doing so now? Another comment, I always look at all offerings of Charolette and Delonoga gold. I did find out trying to purchase at the Dalton Shows that that C and D mintmarked coins are higher priced in the Southeast than other parts of the country. Would CC coins be higher priced at Southwest US coin shows? Thanks, Harry

  18. Macro H. says

    Talking about asymmetric investment returns

    Buy Bess Truman or bird Johnson unc. From mint today
    Downside lose $200, sell at melt
    Upside, key modern coin with lowest mintage in the past 100 years, easy triple in two years.

  19. Brad says


    Thanks, I knew I could count on you. So the first two 2013’s were pulled mid to late July and the last three were the end of September. By that reckoning, the 2015’s will probably be hanging around for several more months, and possibly until they all reach natural sellouts. That could take quite a while, since the only one even showing signs of getting close is the Johnson Proof with 40 remaining at the time of this writing.

  20. Brad says


    Yeah, I do remember they were all released within a few weeks of each other. Those days really sucked for those of us who were building sets!

  21. cagcrisp says

    @HarryB, I am Not a fan of FS coins. I keep up with some numbers but that’s about it. My feelings are pretty much in line with earthlings.

    I would Doubt there are very many looking to put together a set of these. That’s just my opinion. I really see no reason to put together a set at This point in time. There are a few on this blog that have complete sets.

    To look at complete sets I use First Day Sales and in the most recent years there are not that many.

    My feeling has always been that the Entire FS series will either take off or it will not. The “key” will only be important IF someone is putting together an Entire set and since I don’t think that will happen, I don’t see any “key” being worth any more than just a Few people chasing the Low Mintage Wonder and as someone has pointed out “that dog don’t hunt”. Those chasing better sell while there is still an audience.

    Eventually the U.S. Mint will follow the other world wide mints and go to a Lower Mintage/ Higher Premium coins and at that time 2,000-,3000 will look High.

    My Guess would be that yes at some local shows that CC would be higher in the Southwest. CC are the only Morgan’s that I purchase.

    In the South the Charlotte or Dahlonega Mint’s are revered Much more than New Orleans. Only Gold. Only So Long until the Civil War. You can’t ask for much more than that…

  22. The Kid says

    When making comparable between First Spouse gold coins please remember the “Liberty Subset” four gold coins group. Very interesting group of gold coins.

    My personal favorite FS coin is the Andrew Jackson gold coin… President Jackson was honored with a very unique and wonderfully heroic coin design.

    I predict, in a very few years, future Presidents and their wives will quietly lobby Congress to have their images placed on Gold coins by suggesting that the US Mint continue the First Spouse series.

    The Kid

  23. Numismatrix says

    “can you derive a method to make an educated guess on the number of FS collectors who have built a collection or are doing so now? ” – Harry

    The multiple buyer categories are :

    Coin Dealers (P&U) (to sell),
    Bullion Purchasers (P&U) (to sell),
    Flippers (Low mintage P / U or both) (to sell),
    Spouse Selections (P / U or both),
    Random Selections (includes one-off) (P / U or both)
    Low Mintage Selections (P / U or both)
    Short Sets (e.g. Liberties) (P / U or both)
    Full Set Builders (P / U or both – to hold)

    The last few categories would acquire their coins either raw
    from the US Mint or from the first three – graded or raw.

    Weighing the all buyer categories equally, a simple
    estimate would be 20% of the lowest mintage coin.
    This is very likely on the high side, since interest may
    decline or partial sets may be sold to recuperate
    funds. I would wager it is more in line with 5 – 10% of the
    lowest mintage coin – so for a low mintage of 1800 – say
    90 – 100 full-set collectors. Which of course makes them
    exceedingly rare.

    A good estimate guideline would be the US Mint
    offering of the 32-coin 1995 – 1996 Olympics P/U Set.
    The Mint sold only 160 full sets of these coins. They are
    rarely seen on the market, and typically sell for about 2X
    the original issue price.

  24. Tinto says

    @The Kid

    Yeah, I also liked the Andrew Jackson. I had the Liberty FS subset in proof ..but like a lot of my coins I had to sell them a few years ago. They were nice to look at and the obverse were all from coins circulating during their presidency. At least I had them for a while.

  25. earthling says

    One day in the future people are gonna wake up on the FS Series. They will realize ALL the so called ” low mintage wonders” are as numerous as an ’09 VDB – S Lincoln Cent , at Coin Shows.

    All the common stuff will have been sold and melted as scrap. No one wants the Martha Washingtons now, then , or ever.

    IMHO, aside from being 1/2 oz of 24K Gold, this FS Series will be right beside the Lincoln Memorial Cent in popularity.

  26. HarryB says

    @Cag and@Numismatrix: thanks for your analysis and comments on the size of the collector base of FS coins. I suspected that there were not many of us with complete sets who plan to hold them for the time being. I plan to expand my holdings of us gold coins 1840s-1860s now that the FS series is done, until Carter or Bush 41 passes and their spouse’s coins are authorized . Harry

  27. Macro H. says

    Betty ford proof +16. Unc. +21
    Nixon unc. + 24
    Reagan. Unc. +27

    2016 first spouse coins sales look pretty strong…

  28. Macro H. says

    2015 spouse coin weekly sales weak
    2016 spouse coin weekly sales pretty strong

    Implications: Bess Truman and bird Johnson unc. are more likely to be the “low mintage wonder”

  29. Hidalgo says

    The sales number for the 2016 National Park Service $5 gold uncirculated coin, according to the sales report dated January 8, 2017, is 5918.

    There were a total of 5,174 1997 Jackie Robinson $5 gold uncirculated coins sold.

    The delta: + 24

  30. Hidalgo says


    The sales number for the 2016 National Park Service $5 gold uncirculated coin, according to the sales report dated January 8, 2017, is 5198 (not 5918)

    There were a total of 5,174 1997 Jackie Robinson $5 gold uncirculated coins sold.

    The delta: + 24

  31. Dustyroads says

    Macro H, Agree, the 3 UNC. gold NPS subtracted are problem orders of cancelled orders before the orders were finalized. Now the Mint is beginning to get the returns. If there are going to be any, they will be in next weeks report.

  32. cagcrisp says

    16AL 2016 ATB SILVER UNC 5 OZ – HARP FRY 18,824 +81
    16AN 2016 ATB SILVER UNC 5 OZ – FT MOULTRIE 14,974 (979)

  33. cagcrisp says

    16CG 2016 NATIONAL PARK SERVICE 3-COIN SET 14,593 (2)
    16CH 2016 MARK TWAIN GOLD PROOF 13,271 –
    16CJ 2016 MARK TWAIN GOLD UNC 5,699 (2)
    16CK 2016 MARK TWAIN SILVER PROOF 78,543 (6)
    16CL 2016 MARK TWAIN SILVER UNC 26,291 –

  34. cagcrisp says

    16EA 2016 AM EAGLE SILVER PROOF 1 OZ 526,590 +1,204

    16EB 2016 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1 OZ 22,100 + 481
    16EC 2016 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ 5,381 + 39
    16ED 2016 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/4 OZ 7,135 –
    16EF 2016 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 4-COIN SET 15,894 + 201

    16EG 2016 AM EAGLE SILVER UNC 1 OZ 167,066 +3,184

    16EJ 2016 AM EAGLE PLATINUM PROOF 1 OZ +9,151 –

  35. cagcrisp says

    16RA 2016 AMERICAN $1 COIN & CURRENCY SET 46,359 +151

  36. cagcrisp says

    16XA 2016 WALKING LIBERTY 24K GOLD .5OZ 60,012 +243
    16XB 2016 MERCURY DIME 24K GOLD .1OZ 124,899 (11)
    16XC 2016 STANDING LIBERTY 24K GOLD .25OZ 86,798 + 447

  37. cagcrisp says

    16SA 2016 FS GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ – NIXON 2,450 + 7
    16SB 2016 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – NIXON 1,555 + 24
    16SC 2016 FS GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ – FORD 2,217 + 16
    16SD 2016 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – FORD 1,522 +21
    16SE 2016 FS GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ – REAGAN 3,290 + 28
    16SF 2016 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – REAGAN 1,771 +27

    JQ1 2015 FS GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ – TRUMAN 2,595 + 9
    JQ2 2015 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – TRUMAN 1,814 + 5
    JQ4 2015 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – EISENHWR 1,916 + 3
    JQ6 2015 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – KENNEDY 6,462 + 23
    JQ7 2015 FS GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ – JOHNSON 2,613 +2
    JQ8 2015 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – JOHNSON 1,729 + 5

  38. fmtransmitter says

    Macro H. says

    January 10, 2017 at 6:08 pm

    Most returned orders have not be processed yet

    How do you confirm this information please?

  39. Dustyroads says

    cagcrisp, Looks like 16XA (WLH) may still be around in Oct.
    Regardless of the beating it’s taken, it’s a nice looking coin.

  40. cagcrisp says

    @Dustyroads, it’s an Unbelievable beautiful coin. It was my MUST have coin in 2016 and yet…

    … I have yet to buy one for myself. From Must have to Nothing. It’s hard to believe how much my feelings have changed.

    200-300 /week with 10,000 to go. UNBELIEVABLE…

    I hope the New Mint Director has a business background…

  41. Dustyroads says

    cagcrisp, I know your sticking to the standards, but let me just say that one of the two SLQ’s I bought really strikes me as superb. I’m not sure exactly what it is about it, but it’s movingly good. I have bought only one of the WLH’s, and it has the same wow factor. It has to be one of the best looking coins that I own.

  42. Rick says

    @macro h.

    It appears that you are quite interested in the first spouse coins. As you probably know, the market price of Eleanor Roosevelt uncirculated coins has almost tripled over the past couple of years.

    I suggest that you read the following us mint blog thread. You can see that many of those discussants are still around here today. Reading their comments may give you a fresh perspective on coin market dynamics and, more importantly, the psychology of many market participants. Enjoy…. rick


  43. cagcrisp says

    @Dustyroads, I’ve seen all the coins Up Close and Personal . I bought several of each. I just haven’t bought Any For myself…

  44. Macro H. says

    Cool, very cool. Thanks for sharing this. Really enjoy reading them. I did not know that this blog was partly responsible for the sudden SO of ER unc. Coins back in March 2015. MH

  45. one fine dime says

    @The Kid –

    My personal favorite FS coin is the Andrew Jackson gold coin… President Jackson was honored with a very unique and wonderfully heroic coin design

    Just curious, why do you consider Jackson particularly heroic? Or did you just find this design to be somehow heroic?! Old Hickory riding a horse?

  46. Mike the Greek says

    At the risk of sounding uncouth or rude – no offense meant – I find the FS coins some of th most strikingly ugly turds I’ve ever seen. And in the CC set they even managed to do in Ronnie’s good looks. I just don’t get it.

    I started lightly collecting last year with the gold merc et al commems, after a hiatus of 35 yrs. Love those coins!

    Thx y’all for the friendship and camaraderie. Great info and great discussions!


  47. So Krates says

    More interesting than historical FS pumping were the comments back then referencing the mint’s announcement of a 2015 Reverse Proof Set. Did they ever make a retraction or give an explanation at to why no set happened? Or was it more of the same “say whatever you want whether true or not” crap (think recent Michael White completely false statement regarding HHLs on the gold Mercury with no subsequent correction, apology, or explanation ever offered). Seems the perpetrator in this case was Marc Landry.

  48. Dustyroads says

    So Krates, I wondered at the time if the Mint had begun producing the RP dollars for use in the Mint Sets only to pull the plug on them, then put them in the Coin and Chronicle Sets rather than destroy them.

  49. achmed says

    @scott e
    Read the pricing grid on the usmint’s website. After having read it you better ask a fortune teller.

  50. Mintman says

    Expect to see lots of returns of the NPS Unc $5. It will be the new king. I am still looking for a number under 5,000.

  51. one fine dime says

    I bought one of these too ($5 UNC NPS). I like the design and also own several other (unc $5 gold commems). However, “new king”, “new low mintage wonder”, “key”, may not have the same meaning in this “series” as they do in traditional coin series. I tend to believe that a decent percent of folks that buy these coins are only buying one here or there, and are NOT looking to collect the entire “series”. So, a key is only relevant where the majority of collectors are looking for one of each issue, right?

    In this case, I guess the after market value of the low mintage issues just comes down to demand. And the motivation for this “demand” can vary from person to person.
    For example:
    1) the design is truly great (in the eye of the beholder) and they missed getting it straight from the mint (i.e., they just want one),
    2) the mintage is low (because demand was low during issue period) and there is a perception that secondary demand for a low mintage coin will be high, therefore they want one because they are “investing” in something that they believe will be in high(er) demand down the road, and/or
    3) they truly are trying to build a collection of this “series”, and “need”/”want” one example from each issue.

    I’ll add that the likely 4th category is similar to 2) but the intention is for short-term return. That is, FLIPPING ON EBAY

    Personally, I bought this coin for reasons 1) [but direct from the mint] and 2)

    Honestly, I think all this talk about “haha, all those idiots chasing after the new low mintage wonder….haha, stupid…haha why waste your money, etc” is sort of demeaning, because it assumes folks that are participating in this blog are just flippers. To me, I don’t mind paying a premium (though I think some 30%-40% above spot is TOO much), for a unique gold coin that commemorates an important aspect of our American heritage. I truly enjoy collecting modern commemorative coins…but I choose the issues that resonate most with me, and just ignore the others.

    And for gold “investment” purposes, I’d rather add these to my collection than just some generic AGE (or ASE for that matter)….not unique, millions sold every year, same design every year. but that’s just me, nothing against others that like those coins.


  52. cagcrisp says

    @scott e, “when will the next price increase or decrease in gold prices at the mint happen? thanks”

    Prices change on Wednesday afternoons when warranted. Today it was not warranted. New pricing fixes start on Thursday and end on Wednesday.

    Currently we are in the $1,150.00-$1,199.99 range. Unless the daily fixes go Outside of this range +/- there are no adjustments…

  53. Macro H. says

    completely agree

    Honestly, I think all this talk about “haha, all those idiots chasing after the new low mintage wonder….haha, stupid…haha why waste your money, etc” is sort of demeaning, because it assumes folks that are participating in this blog are just flippers

  54. earthling says

    This game of sending $400 – $1500 to the Mint for PM Coins is reminding me of a high dollar Slot Machine. Order away people, You could be holding the next low mintage wonder.

    Maybe we need to demand the Mint to deliberately issue lackluster ugly Coins (hmmmmm…. )so mintages steadily decline. The low mintage chasers will love the action created by such a strategy.

  55. Macro H. says

    The problem is not whether the coin design is ugly or not. We got the same group of people repeatedly trashing gold liberties. I know that the prevailing sentiment is somewhat negative given the down trend in both bullion and numismatic coins. But please do not keep trashing us mint, its employees and its products here.

  56. So Krates says

    Macro H. says. “…because it assumes folks that are participating in this blog are just flippers.”…”completely agree”

    Of course you do. If it walks like a duck…I think cagcrsip prolly had it right about the annual FS pump fest

    I’ve read every comment posted on this blog for at least a year and can’t recall you or Rick ever commenting on anything other than how great the FS are/will be. Please correct me if my memory is faulty.

    In fact when Macro H. and Rick converse it sounds like someone having an imaginary telephone conversation with themselves while holding the receiver pretending to listen when no one is actually at the other end of the line. I’d bet an ER MS70 that it is impossibe to ever see you two in the same room at the same time 🙂

  57. Macro H. says

    Krause, please read my message above. This is not a place to trash us mint and your fellow collectors.

  58. So Krates says

    I was on the fence about chasing the NPS gold unc and/or the FS new low but decided instead to take the same funds and roll the dice on a dozen or so 2015 Silver Proof Sets.

  59. So Krates says

    Krause? Your on the wrong site -this here is a Whitman blog.

    No trashing, I don’t have anything against flippers, just callin a spade a spade.

    Again, in the last year what have you commented on aside from pumping new lows on the FS and NPS?

  60. Macro H. says

    So kra, I have posted less than 10 here. Go to pcgs forum if you are interested in my comments on classic coins. This blog is for modern us mint coins. Among current us mint products, I do believe first spouse coins with mintage below 2000 have the greatest potential over the next decade.

  61. Macro H. says

    I am ok if someone with very negative sentiment wants to trash us mint here. But please don not trash others with whom you disagree. Why keep blaming or trashing others who enjoy the type of coins that you dislike? Thanks.

  62. bigguy says

    I like the spouse coins,just way way to much for 1/2 ounce ,I can go buy 1 1/2 ounces of 2017 gold eagles for the price of some of those first spouse coins,just not for me

  63. one fine dime says

    @So Krates –
    I don’t have anything against flippers, just callin a spade a spade.

    …wait a sec, didn’t you just say you decided to “roll the dice on a dozen or so 2015 Silver Proof Sets

    so you are a flipper then, right? or is this for your numismatic enjoyment to have this many sets? I’m just trying to understand your point(s) here.

    I can go buy 1 1/2 ounces of 2017 gold eagles for the price of some of those first spouse coins

    As far as I can tell, the mintages of AGEs aren’t anywhere near what the FS coins are. The AGE’s are the same design every year, purely a bullion coin, right? http://goldeagleguide.com/mintages/
    Everyone is motivated by different reasons for purchasing coins, but I don’t really think the FS and the AGEs can be compared that way…apples and oranges, no?

  64. So Krates says

    Yes, one fine dime, but I’m just mentioning them now and not hyping them in every comment. It’s not the flipping, it’s a question of contributing to the community or simply coming in and pumping. And BTW thanks to everyone who offered an opinion the other day on the these sets and where they’re headed.

  65. So Krates says

    one fine dime says, “As far as I can tell, the mintages of AGEs aren’t anywhere near what the FS coins are. The AGE’s are the same design every year, purely a bullion coin, right?”

    Ironically, almost all the FS sell like bullion, while the half ounce AGE market has had a numismatic premium due to strong demand for quite some time. The mintage of the MCMXCI $25 is 24,100 and is worth more than any First Spouse. I’d take one of these any day over a Truman and Johnson FS combined.


  66. Macro H. says

    Ironically, almost all the FS sell like bullion,

    So kra, All 2014, 2015, 2016 spouse coins sell like bullion? please check the facts. In fact, all AGE after 2010 sell like bullion.

    Also There is an important difference between investment gains and market price.

    Coin 1, priced $10000 today, will sell for $11000 in 5 years
    Coin2. Priced $1000 today, will sell for $5000 in 5 years

    If you have 10000 to invest today, which one will yield a better return?

  67. jp says

    I’ve the complete uncirculated and proof sets of FS. They’re set next to the proofs of their husbands, with the uncirculated FS showing the reverse side, and those three set together look really great. There’ve been comments that the FS are not lookers, but next to their husbands, neither are they. But together, it is a really impressive historical series. I’m so glad to have this.

  68. roxie60 says

    President Jackson was historically a courageous man/president in a den of vipers IMO. Amazing what he stood up against to preserve our liberties. Wish we had just a few of him as leaders today……

    Yes there are ladies who like numi here

  69. roxie60 says

    I’m also very happy with my Centennial Liberty 2016 coins, other than the price. Those designs are stunning in gold and silver….

    Also happy with my Twain and NPS coins. Of course I cant buy anything is 2017 other than maybe my SEgs

  70. roxie60 says

    I still cant believe I bought the $1 Coin and Currency this year but I really like the Code Talkers coin and the history behind it. Just happened that two of the currencies are bookends…..15315 and 14714

  71. Dustyroads says

    I got the US Mint email today advertising the live feed available tomorrow for the unveiling of the 2017 HR Liberty, but the email failed to say anything about the time. Anyone have that info?

  72. one fine dime says

    @roxie60 –

    “Our liberties”?! You mean the liberties of anglo-americans who wanted more land and free wealth. I will not consider any man who was involved in the following to be “heroic” :

    >> He owned hundreds of slaves who worked on the Hermitage plantation

    >> He signed the Indian Removal Act which led directly to the Trail of Tears

    The relocated people suffered from exposure, disease, and starvation while en route, and more than four thousand died before reaching their various destinations.” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_of_Tears)

    …one finds Jackson the archetypal Indian-hater, the slave owner, the overbearing male patriarch, and the frontiersman not as heroic pioneer but as imperialist, expropriator, and killer.” (https://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-by-era/age-jackson/essays/andrew-jackson%E2%80%99s-shifting-legacy)

  73. jp says

    roxie60, the Twain and NPS coins are nice coins. The laser surface treatment is an improvement helping to illustrate the designs. Not aware if the mint announced whether they are continuing the surface treatment for the commemoratives this year and beyond.

  74. one fine dime says

    since the moderators may take days to vet the purely educational websites about Andrew Jackson that I posted, I’ll just post again w/o links…

    @roxie60 –

    “Our liberties”?! You mean the liberties of anglo-americans who wanted more land and free wealth. I will not consider any man who was involved in the following to be “heroic”:

    >> He owned hundreds of slaves who worked on the Hermitage plantation

    >> He signed the Indian Removal Act which led directly to the Trail of Tears

    Trail of Tears: “The relocated people suffered from exposure, disease, and starvation while en route, and more than four thousand died before reaching their various destinations.”

    From a critique of Jackson: “…one finds Jackson the archetypal Indian-hater, the slave owner, the overbearing male patriarch, and the frontiersman not as heroic pioneer but as imperialist, expropriator, and killer.”

  75. cagcrisp says

    @Dustyroads , “unveiling of the 2017 HR Liberty, but the email failed to say anything about the time. Anyone have”

    1:00 PM ET

  76. Just Another Dave In Pa says

    Jackson was ok when you consider the era he came from. He supported white male universal suffrage which was one of the first voting reforms and the predecessor to universal suffrage.

    The treatment of Native Americans was shameful and it continues to this day.

    I like to read Silverbugs on Reddit. They have a very good subreddit at https://www.reddit.com/r/Pmsforsale/ which I like because it’s more community driven. Most redditors are younger and the success of Silverbugs points to the future of collecting and numismatics. They even mint their own Silverbug coins which are nice. Anyway (and btw, thanks for fixing the RSS feed which had been awol for a few days) a recent post there involved a guy calling Silverbugs idiots for collecting silver.

    Here’s the thread and the link to the youtube video is at the top.

    It’s just another example of either wild enthusiasm for silver or total rejection of silver coins which seems to be a theme.

  77. Macro H. says

    Let me post my message again for @cagc.

    I am ok if someone with very negative sentiment wants to trash us mint here. But please don not trash others with whom you disagree. Why keep blaming or trashing others who enjoy the type of coins that you dislike? Thanks.

  78. cagcrisp says


    I’ve been putting together some sets for grandchildren that can be as expensive as you want or relatively cheap in comparison to Old Gold.

    I’ve been putting together sets of:
    Half cent
    Two cent
    3 cent piece
    3 cent nickel
    Half dime
    Twenty cent piece

  79. Bigguy says

    One fine dime
    Hope your not a finance advisor,I like the best for my money not everything is about mintages

  80. one fine dime says

    “that can be as expensive as you want or relatively cheap”

    …well which are they, cheap or expensive sets? is this dependent on the particular series and/or grade or other factors? are you a member of Coin Community Forum? you can share photos, and discuss these vintage sets (as well as modern coins).

  81. one fine dime says

    @Bigguy –

    “Hope your not a finance advisor”

    yeah, well coin collecting is about WAY more than just a return on investment. I could be wrong but I don’t believe this is really a venue for pure investment type discussion. maybe re-read my lengthier post above for a fuller picture of (some) of the factors that motivate (some) collectors.

    Feel free to fill us in on your own coin collecting motivations, etc.

  82. Bigguy says

    One fine dime
    Also if you really want to talk mintages,you better look at some of the AGE mintages , you might be surprised !!!!

  83. So Krates says

    @ one fine dime – WRT including links in your comments, I’ve observed that one link per comment gets through while two or more links will trigger a review.

  84. one fine dime says

    Ok. Well, I’m simply not a fan of those series. I’ve collected a number of $5 (and $1) commemoratives and a FS coin in addition to some select vintage specimens. I personally find regurgitating classic designs for these AGE and ASE bullion issues is just plain boring. They simply don’t resonate with me. I’d rather buy a 1921-D walking liberty half dollar (which I have) or a saint gaudens double eagle (which I don’t have). To me there is little to no excitement in buying modern NCLT coins which look exactly like the one before it (i.e., prior year’s issue). Pre-depression era mercury dimes?…now that’s a different story!

    But whatever turns you on Bigguy.

  85. So Krates says

    one fine dime – While I personally agree and find the FS coins more pleasing and interesting than boring old AGEs, the market does not.

    A quick check of our favorite MNB retailer shows (apples to apples) a random date FS at $627 and a random date $25 AGE at $660. Add in the huge issue price vs AP price differential and you are too far behind the eight ball for my taste.

    Good luck to all you FS enthusiasts, I hope you all fare better than the American Arts collectors.

  86. joe#2 says

    Could someone kindly explain to me how you watch the live feed for the new 2017 H R Liberty.. Do you go to the U S Mint site???
    TY in advance….

  87. Macro H. says

    “Lady Bird” Johnson 2015 First Spouse Series One-Half Ounce Gold Proof Coin “Lady Bird” Johnson 2015 First Spouse Series One-Half Ounce Gold Proof Coin West Point (W)

    37 Item(s) In Stock

  88. samuel says

    @Bigguy says
    JANUARY 11, 2017 AT 9:30 PM

    “One fine dime
    Also if you really want to talk mintages,you better look at some of the AGE mintages , you might be surprised !!!!”

    For example, 2012 burnished 1oz!

  89. cagcrisp says

    These Proof Johnsons have been listed UNDER 100 for WEEKS

    Here is the latest sales numbers

    JQ7 2015 FS GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ – JOHNSON 2,613 +2

    SO far this week, sales are Up Well over 100%. Last week there were 2 sold and this week there have been 5 Sold.

    Good lLUCK selling a Johnson Proof with that Sales Number…

  90. one fine dime says

    I’m sorry Macro H. but what is that post?! No offense but you sound like a news flash advertisement for the US Mint! I really don’t think that is what this blog is for. Maybe So Krates has a point.

  91. Macro H. says

    For those serious first spouse coin collectors, all 2015 fs coins can be pulled by US mint anytime. So if you haven’t bought yours, waiting is risky. For a couple of 2015 uncirculated coins, their prices will double the very moment they are pulled from US mint website.

  92. cagcrisp says


    “Could someone kindly explain to me how you watch the live feed for the new 2017 H R Liberty.. Do you go to the U S Mint site???”

    There was an email sent out But no link was provided.

    Maybe another link will be sent out Tomorrow…

  93. cagcrisp says

    @Macro H, You’re starting to sound Desperate.

    Keep Up the Good Pump.

    Neither will they be pulled at any time Nor will they Double in price…

  94. one fine dime says

    “their prices will double the very moment they are pulled from US mint website.”

    …on ebay? and what, they are gonna sell for double too or just be for sale at double? sounds like a lot of hyperbole really.

    are you an adult? what FS coin is selling for double right now? And I’m not talking about some TPG slabbed 70…I’m talking about the coins as they come from the mint.

    btw, the whole TPG game on modern straight-from-the-mint coins is kind of a scam isn’t it? I mean if you can’t discern an MS69 from an MS70 under a loop, what magical powers do you think some paid TPG’er has to do so? If they slept poorly one night or skipped lunch one day, bingo, you gotta MS69. If they had a fun night in the sack with their honey then bingo, MS70.

    TPG’ing was intended for circulation coinage, not pristine coins encapsulated before they even leave the mint. I find that whole game to just make a joke out of numismatics.

  95. Macro H. says

    Most 2013 spouse gold coins were pulled by the mint without any warning in 2015 about 19-21 months after their debuts.

  96. DBR says

    Even if a bit contentious, I’ve really enjoyed the FS coin discussion on this thread. I don’t collect the FS series (very pricey), but I’m glad people weighed in on them. Before returning to the hobby, I had never heard of the FS coins. In all honesty I was put off by the FS coins being minted in gold while the Presidential dollar series was struck in a composite metal worthy of bath faucets. It simply didn’t make sense to me. And lo and behold still no other Presidential dollars were struck in a nice real gold version.; just manganese, zinc etc.

    I do respect our nation’s First Ladies., but now with the very low mintages even if the series finds future expanded interest, the total number of collectors who have the FS coins in their collection will be perpetually few, relatively speaking. If demand for FS coins soars, well Holy moley the market prices will skyrocket.

    Pricey things draw attention. Future tastes and trends are difficult to speculate upon.

    Maybe one day I’ll be interested in my favorite First Ladies’ FS coins. In that case, I would buy Martha Washington, Dolly Madison, Mary Todd Lincoln, Eleanor Roosevelt, Jacqueline Kennedy, Lady Bird Johnson, Betty Ford, and Nancy Reagan. (Should they expand the series I would add and buy Barbara Bush only for those in recent memory.) I’m sure I’m forgetting a few more.

    In contrast, I’m collecting all the Presidential coin series and in different packaged mint offerings. Believe it or not my favorite is the Presidential dollar Coin Covers. Pricey for $2 face value coins in its contents. But the Coin Covers have mint-guaranteed first day strikes contained in them. I like their OGP in the Coin Cover type.

    I think the reason I’m not interested in the FS series is because I’m ignorant of the significance of the rest of the First Ladies who aren’t my favorites. They don’t “come to life” for me. Who knows? As they say, “Behind every great man is a woman.” (This could be his mother or his wife I suppose, or even one of his teachers or mentors.) 😉

    A little insomnia so I’m up posting.

  97. achmed says

    as long as the FS Johnson unc has 99 or more available in the shop the usmint will not pull it. I am sure about that.

  98. cagcrisp says

    Here are some Fun FACTS (NO pump) about the remaining 2015 First Spouse coins…

    These are how many have been sold by the Mint in 364 days (01/10/16-01/08/17)

    2015 FS GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ – TRUMAN 2,595 +228
    2015 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – TRUMAN 1,814 +160
    2015 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – EISENHWR 1,916 +191
    2015 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – KENNEDY 6,462 +971
    2015 FS GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ – JOHNSON 2,613 +328
    2015 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – JOHNSON 1,729 +254

    Rounding Per Week Sales are:

    2015 FS GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ – TRUMAN 4/Week for 1 year
    2015 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – TRUMAN 3/Week for 1 year
    2015 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – EISENHWR 4/Week for 1 year
    2015 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – KENNEDY 19/Week for 1 year
    2015 FS GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ – JOHNSON 6/Week for 1 year
    2015 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – JOHNSON 5/Week for 1 year

    …SO…put Another way, Besides J. Kennedy, Each of the Remaining 2015 FS coins have Sold less than 1 coin Per Day for a Solid Year.

    …SO…Currently there are 37 Proof Johnson’s Available. That’s a Total of 5 sales for the current week. You Sell just a couple more and you can say that Proof Johnson is on a ROLL (Above it’s 52 week average)…

  99. Buzz Killington says

    I have found that FS gold, and the gold American Arts Medallions, are some of the lowest premiums to spot that can be found.

    Right now, there is a lot of FS pumping going on — they are not easy to find at spot right now. And no one is buying at the current premium.

    I assume all of my PM coins will revert to melt value, and may have very few winners that will beat spot. If this is the game, FS coins near melt are a good gamble.

    I don’t think anyone serious believes they are going to triple in the near future, unless gold triples.

    @SK — Did you make an intentional allusion to the old Mark Knopfler prank call tape? If so WELL DONE. (“Can you put Pam back on the phone?”)

  100. Old Big Bird says

    I just received my 2017 ATB Clad proof sets for my collections.

    I have to say the Effigy Mounds reverse has almost no polished surface.
    This make that coin look very dull. The bears and bird barely stand out.

    Just my thoughts

  101. HarryB says

    As a collector of the FS series I have enjoyed the discussion. I do have one question: why are some sellers on the Bay offering FS coins at unrealistic high prices? I would understand the old saying “whatever the market will bear” or simple optimism, or perhaps some business models that require a retailer to overprice the value of inventory , but I see no reason to overprice sales to the point where sales will not occur. Yes, a seller can value their item at whatever they want, but chances of a sale are somewhat slim. Harry

  102. earthling says

    When discussing the First Spouse Series – mintages, values, sales, supply, demand.. whatever – remember the words of PT Barnum , ” There’s a Sucker Born Every Minute”.

    😉 😁

    When someone has money burning a hole in their pocket, they will find something to spend it on. Offer it for sale, someone will buy it.

  103. cagcrisp says

    joe#2 says

    January 11, 2017 at 10:18 pm

    “Could someone kindly explain to me how you watch the live feed for the new 2017 H R Liberty.. Do you go to the U S Mint site???
    TY in advance….”

    There is a link provided on the United States Mint FB page…

  104. data dave says

    As far as the FS market goes, it is an EXTREMELY thin market right now with only one or two coins per month trading hands on Ebay for some of the issues and maybe only a handful of listings at any given time. If you wanted to put together a complete collection in a week using BIN prices, I wonder how much you would have to pay?

  105. IPS_STUFF says

    @johnaz – thanks….good for a laugh, I thought maybe they were waiting on packaging from China.

  106. gatortreke says

    I was hoping Principle Deputy Director Jepson would show a coin to the video audience but alas, I guess we’ll have to wait until later.

  107. fmtransmitter says

    Of all the articles posted here, this event, I feel should have been number one on the list today! Anywho, the Eagle on it a stunner! Not sure if I can afford one but it looks like a gorgeous coin. Now,, just keep it to 15,000 and we are good to go!

  108. fmtransmitter says

    But seriously man, do you think they were selling weaves back in the 1700’s? If your going to go the PC route, then make it a short haired women due to lice and bugs and all the reasons men and women kept their hair short back in those days. That’s is why the men wore wigs, they were bald underneath. That is what you see mostly, but the woman had short hair too! As to the Eagle, homerun!

  109. fmtransmitter says

    And, another thing, what is up with the stars being way out proportion to the head? It makes me think of a third grader having to submit such a picture and how they would put the stars on the head, it looks way off and fugly IMHO….

  110. DBR says

    The large crown of stars on Liberty’s head was inspired by the same large crown of stars on the head of the statue that adorns the dome of the U.S. Capitol building. See link in Numismatrix’s post.

    I like the Reverse and eagle depiction and the raised edge lettering and stars. (Not incused but raised features on the edge.) The high relief is a handsome feature and always a winner with me for the rarity and craftsmanship needed.

    The obverse is good too but for my taste I would have wanted a different expression on Liberty’s profile that evoked a celebratory mood for an auspicious 225th anniversary Coin. The coin now depicts the strength and seriousness of Liberty, a tough and determined expression. That’s okay as that’s traditional. Recollect the Statue of Liberty expression; hers too is fierce.

    Four sets of initials though is cluttered and distracting. Not sure how you avoid that except by shrinking the artists’ and designers’ initials further. That wouldn’t bother me.

    This coin may “grow on me” in the coming weeks. There are silver medal versions promised too. So the gold coin could be a purchase for me.

    Happy 225th Anniversary to the U.S. Mint!

  111. Dustyroads says

    I’m beginning to rethink my prediction of sub $1,000. gold during this first half of 2017. There quite likely will be some volatility, but I’m really starting to feel like a floor has been established above $1,000.

  112. Dean says

    So we’re now back to the “.9999 Fine Gold” marking.

    Or was 24K just for the other gold coins?

  113. So Krates says

    I caught the end where Deputy Director Jeppson referred to “the proof”. Is it being issued in proof or is he just acting like Colonel Klink again?

  114. Louis Golino, Author says

    The fact that the model is wearing a crown of stars, which DBR correctly notes is like the one on the Freedom Statue, and which I believe represents emancipation, does not change the fact that it is supposed to be a modern image of Liberty and thus not a woman from the 1700’s!

    I like both sides a lot and if I could afford the gold, I’d get it but the silver will be fine. The 2015 HR gold was supposed to be in proof in the CCAC’s recommendation, so maybe this time they are doing that.

  115. John Q. Coinage says

    Great idea, weak execution. The obverse is a mess of stuff, crowded design, giant stars, dangling dreads, etc., Why not a native American if you want to go that direction? On to the reverse, the Eagles nice, but so many distractions…. So far the high relief series has had , no that there is anything wrong with it, an apparent African American model for the obverse. If the mint sought to draw collectors the 19th Century Liberty depictions, or a flowing hair high relief would kick arse, as for this whatever. On the flip side if the current POTUS was still ongoing, next year it would be a Syrian refuge holding a flag (whose??) Anyway, I digress…. once Trumps folk take over we’ll have a different theme, like Liberty depicted a bleached blonde that occupy Fox news & his circle…..maybe he’ll ask to put Ann Coulter on a medal with a shield as she builds the “wall”…..

  116. Phil says

    I think the Mint has done a nice job with the 2017 HR. It reminds me of the UHR to some degree. It’s always is interesting to see the artist concept moved to the coin. In this case there is a striking difference and it’s on the positive side.

  117. earthling says

    I have mixed feeling about this Coin now that the pics are out. One thing I can say is , Thank God it isn’t as bad as the line drawing Art. That first representation was as bad as awful could possibly be. Now the Coin isn’t any worst than any of the other junk the Mint has put out.

    Coin grade : C

    US Mint grade: D

    Anyone know of a good online Auto Tech School? My company will foot the bill so I want Excellent not Cheap. I want to learn to fix and tune these modern Cars. I need a good challenge to focus on.

  118. dave says

    hmm I wonder if I can only purchase the reverse of the 225th anniversary coin and therefore receive a 50% discount? now that’s an idea!

  119. Dustyroads says

    earthling, I can see the your sign now…”Last Stop Break Shop”.

    Just kidding buddy.

    The Mint really should sell the HR “mint to demand”.

  120. cagcrisp says

    @Dustyroads, the Mint is in effect doing an open ended MTD with the SLQ and the WLH .

    A proper Mintage and HHL is preferable to MTD and a MTD with an end date is preferable to an open ended MTD…

  121. The Real "Cool" Brad says

    I don’t have the cash on hand to buy the gold coin, but I am excited to add this to my 2016 liberty medals.

    I think that it’s unfortunate that people who don’t like the design are considered by some of showcasing a race based judgement, and the people who like the design are part of the PC police. I just think it’s a nice looking coin, I actually like the big stars around her head, and think both the obverse and reverse are artistically pleasing. As with the liberty medals, the reverse is what really holds the wow factor. I think once people see these in hand, they will be won over by the reverse and their initial feelings on the obverse will lessen. This is what seems to have happened before.

  122. Dustyroads says

    cagcrisp, “A proper Mintage and HHL is preferable to MTD”.

    I expect the US Mint to balance their releases. If the Mint wants to release a high mintage coin with little chance of secondary appeal every once in a while, who am I to complain. What the Mint did last year was a tricky on their part as far as I’m concerned.

  123. cagcrisp says

    This will be part of a series that will be BIENNIALLY.

    I’m not a Fan of a series, however, the market can absorb biennially and not lose secondary pricing (assuming secondary pricing is not Lost at Launch)…

  124. earthling says


    Funny you should mention “break”. My uncle ran a Brake Shop in Oregon during his lifetime. He had a big house and a big family, do I guess he did OK.

    Anyways, I’m not interested in earning a living being a Mechanic. I earn a really great check babysitting Welding Robots in the ” Motor City”. I’m interested in getting up to speed on Cars more as a hobby thing. When Cars left breaker point Ignition Systems and Carburators behind – they left me behind. 😦

    I have a background in the old cars and also a background in Computer Systems so it shouldn’t be too much of a jump.

    I need action not inaction. Coins just sort of lay there… like Animal Crackers out in a field.


  125. Scott says

    BIENNIALLY means these will available almost forever and the flippers won’t be making any money on this one.

  126. cagcrisp says

    @Scott, that’s the way I see it.

    At 100,000 you take a LOT of people out of play. A lot.

    At 100,000 and not a chaser of labels you can just afford to wait and watch…

  127. earthling says

    I can forsee a large “black market ” developing for this coin. A segment of society won’t be ordering from the Mint but ” scrappers” will be out mining the burbs for these, in order to meet underground demand.

    Yo yo check out my ” Obama Mamma” Gold. I gots it fo my pocket full o stones, yo.

  128. smalltimecollector says

    After buying 10 Au dimes, 2 Au quarters, 2 Au halves and 2 ea of proof and u Ag dollars this year I’m moving back to vintage gold for 17, unless there is some interesting Buffalo in the works.

  129. Buzz Killington says

    @earthling —

    What a blatantly racist post. I guess the young female drug addict you brought home to be your girlfriend was white, then?

    You may have a constitutional right to harbor racist views in your heart, but I’m surprised that I have to be the first one to call you out on yet another BS racist post.

    Perhaps it would be better if you went back to harping on that return you didn’t get credit for three years ago.

  130. Dustyroads says

    earthling,…. youtube

    Why does the US Mint still use the edge lettering. Done with clean edges it would look good, but as long as the collar marks are visible it looks bad or unfinished. I thought the Mint would have figured that out already.

  131. Dean says

    So, April 6 release. Two and a half months to save. Enough time, I hope.

    It’d be a much nicer coin with a reeded edge, but I see why they went with raised edge lettering. It’s just too bad they couldn’t get rid of the collar marks.

  132. So Krates says

    IMO the raised edge lettering is more pleasing than the incused modern font on the ATBs and 30th Anny ASEs.

  133. earthling says

    When thugs harass a person while they’re just trying to live peacefully in the ghetto ( big mistake I know ), a person might tend to adopt certain realistic ( racist ? – oh really ) views about certain peoples. Once you nail down the innate inner spirits of certain classes of people, you know what they are and who they are. I don’t especially enjoy trolls but trolls are just people just like anyone else that live in internet forums. My philosophy on trolls – live and let live.

    Now about demand for OM Goat? Guaranteed to arise. Look for those remotely suspected to be a Coin Buyer to be a victim of breakins. Guaranteed. I’ve seen Ghetto Society up close and personal . Been the victim of too many Ghetto Crimes. I think I can see clearly when it comes to what motivates Ghetto Scrappers.

    Racist views? Just real views.

  134. So Krates says

    Buzz – Thanks for giving me credit but I had never heard of that guy until today. Of course I know the real Mark K., but this pre-Jerky Boys cranker was unknown to me. Checked out the Pam call and another but they didn’t really strike me that funny, the guy seems kinda mean. I like calls to stores using Judge Judy’s recorded voice or Richard and Sal’s “confusion” series, and some of the “pit-zeria” and Tradio calls. If I was referencing cranks I would’ve said, “put Ethel back on the phone”.

    My lame joke was just because I can’t shake the image of when someone is pretending to talk on the phone but no one is on the line and then it rings when they were fake talking. That’s Rick and Macro H.,just like Superman and Clark Kent, you’ll never see them together.


  135. Zaz says

    This, IMO, is a great coin for the times. When it was revealed and discussed last year, I thought then it was a non-starter, the Mint bigwigs pandering the the PC-left, but my how have times changed. Literally straight from the frying pan right into the fire. Would not surprise me should the PEOTUS find out about this subversive offering he may put a stop to sales as the portrait being un American and for the simple fact that as president he believes that entitles him to interfere with any aspect of government because he can. Might be a wonderful sleeper coin especially if he puts someone with absolutely no knowledge of history as the next Mint director like Kellyanne Conway or Omarosa Stallworth. Perhaps the replacement HR gold coin should feature a portrait of his imperial and beautific Majesty… Now, I’ll be first in line to buy one of those endless dichotomy (Emperor Donald) coins…! LOL

  136. says

    earthling Liberals love playing the racist card and I for one am sick and tired of that BS. All leftist puke labels are simply tools used to stifle objection and facilitate the silly liberal agenda.

  137. Erik H says

    2017 HR Liberty, finally something other than FS coins to talk about (I was starting to get bored).

    I hope they don’t make the gold in proof, I’ve enjoyed the matte finish on the 2015 HR & 2016 gold commemoratives.

    IMO, stars are to big and now it looks like Liberty’s jaw is a lot more pronounced. I don’t think it will sell 100k. If they produce it in batches of 25k then it will sell less than 50K just like the 2015. If flippers are lucky it will sell less than 25k.

  138. earthling says

    This OM Goat Coin ( OMG ) might go the way of the Robinson Coin. Only I’d expect it to sell less. At least Jackie Robinson was a superbly talented pioneer of a Baseball Player. Who is this “Liberty Lady” actually supposed to be?

    I’ll actually predict 16,000 Coins on the first day of sales. So a lot better than the JR Gold.

  139. Montana John says

    Look up the difference between racism and prejudice You’ll come to understand that everyone is prejudiced…biased.Some like to live in the country,others in the city,Some people prefer one coin to another.If Earthling’s life experiences motivate him to cross the street if he sees a white or dark skinned person wearing saggy pants …thats prejudice…Racism is when someone believes their race is superior to others .. Racism is rare. Whats not rare is how often liberals hurl accusations of racism to silence their opposition..

  140. Buzz Killington says

    @SK — Mark Knopfler’s calls are definitely mean. A lot of prank calls are mean. Back in 1991, when I first heard that tape, I did find it revolutionary. The Crown Jewel of Mark K. pranks is Amanda White. Even if these calls don’t hold up to today’s standards (I tend to like the Public Access calls the best; my personal favorite is the “tongue twister” call to Community Cop) it was the forerunner of a classic genre, and has more to do with my memories of being young instead of loving the calls. But still, it is worth listening to Amanda White, and remembering this was done in the late 80’s, 1990 at the latest.

    @Earthling — It may be true in some areas that poor people are more likely to steal, and black people are more likely to be poor, but going from that direction ignores a lot of poor white thieves, and a whole lot of poor honest black folks. So yours are not real views. They are racist views.

    If you live in such a bad neighborhood, you should use some of the rent money you are saving on valuable personal property insurance if you are so worried about it. The indisputable fact remains that the biggest thieves are the rich white males, and they mostly use pens. (Like the VW execs, and mortgage backed security sellers from the late otts.)

  141. Buzz Killington says

    @Montana John —

    There is some truth to the idea that “racial sensitivity” can be taken too far. I have seen descriptions of wanted criminals which seemed to be written so as to leave the race of the person ambiguous. That is absurd.

    For @earthling to imply, as he did, that blacks would be waiting to steal this coin, I’m sorry, that’s racist, plain and simple.

    If you want to engage the topic, I think you will find that criminal behavior is predicted by socioeconomic class, not race. And if you factor out drug crime, I can imagine what the results would be.

    I have met terrible people of all races, and great hardworking people of all races and cultures. I don’t see how it is helpful to suggest that “the blacks” are responsible for crime in Detroit. IF IT WERE TRUE, then what is the solution? (But it’s not true.)

  142. Just Another Dave In Pa says

    I’m not so fast to judge someone as a racist. Those people who terrorized the mentally handicapped guy in Chicago seemed pretty upset with white people. That Dylann Roof guy was trying to start a race war.

    I hope they all get what they deserve.

    It’s hard to find honest people. I was thinking of Diogenes because of So Krates.

    via wikipeda
    When Plato gave Socrates’s definition of man as “featherless bipeds” and was much praised for the definition, Diogenes plucked a chicken and brought it into Plato’s Academy, saying, “Behold! I’ve brought you a man.” After this incident, “with broad flat nails” was added to Plato’s definition.

    Of course, Diogenes is best remembered as searching in vain for an honest man.

    via iep/utm.edu
    The exceptional nature of Diogenes’ life generates some difficulty for determining the exact events that comprise it. He was a citizen of Sinope who either fled or was exiled because of a problem involving the defacing of currency. Thanks to numismatic evidence, the adulteration of Sinopean coinage is one event about which there is certainty.

    Anyway, the Cynics are my favorites.

    And of course, Rumi

    Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and right doing, there is a field. I’ll meet you there. When the soul lies down in that grass, the world is too full to talk about. Ideas, language, even the phrase each other doesn’t make any sense. ~~~Rumi

  143. Mike the Greek says

    @Buzz: “The indisputable fact remains that the biggest thieves are the rich white males, and they mostly use pens. (Like the VW execs, and mortgage backed security sellers from the late otts.)”

    Hahahahaha! So true…it’s the “Golden Rule” in this country: s/he who has the gold, makes the rules…

  144. So Krates says

    Buzz says, “I think you will find that criminal behavior is predicted by socioeconomic class, not race. And if you factor out drug crime…”

    Yeah! Haven’t you heard?… even Mortimer Duke learned this in 1983 when he lost $1 to Randolph. They even factored in the drug crime in this clip:


  145. So Krates says

    Whether one likes it or not, the coin is bold. Both figures dominate their respective sides. Nothing subtle here. I’m looking forward to seeing a HR gold in proof.

    Race (if there even is such a thing) is tricky…and inherently funny. Racial differences in humans are an ancient source of humor (along with mother-in-law and toilet related jokes). I’m sorry, but to be honest, I thought earthling’s “black market” joke was quite funny. The key is to use the racial humor to promote unity and show how our differences pale in comparison to our similarities. Remember Norman Lear’s All in the Family ? While some thought the show was racist and misogynistic (Stifle yourself, Edith), most were able to see how creating the extreme character and showing how his outdated attitudes made him a smaller man actually advanced race relations.

    I try and give everyone a fair shake and the chance to act right. But I do not disregard all the “data” I have compiled as a result of thousands of personal experiences over decades of living. The trick is to balance these observed tendencies with the noble concept of equality. But we all live in the real world and unless your head’s in the sand some things just tend to be true. For example I could make this joke:

    Instead of the customary 12:00 EST release, the new HR gold will go on sale around 12:20 CPT. 🙂

    Now some won’t understand, and others will think that’s racist, but blacks will get it, including the POTUS, who has himself joked about CPT.. We do need to fight discrimination and aspire to equality but it’s OK to laugh if it’s funny.

  146. data dave says

    I found a 1980 quarter that looks like it is struck on a different planchet. The weight is 5.34 grams versus the standard 5.67 grams. It looks to be a clad planchet though. Any ideas?

  147. IPS_STUFF says

    Anyone have the mintage figures for the 2015 HR gold

    With mintage of 2017 slated to be 100k, wonder if this will give some further action to the 2015 HR gold coin. I also doubt the 2017 will sell 100k, If mint can’t sell 100k of a 1/4 gold or 75k of a 1/2 gold coin, why do they think the 2017 HR gold will sell 100k

    USMINT does not learn anything from their past releases!

  148. cagcrisp says

    @IPS_STUFF, “Anyone have the mintage figures for the 2015 HR gold”


    On sale for 23 weeks. Sales were listed for 25 weeks…

  149. Government Drone says

    @Phil: CNBC is wrong about this being the FIRST “woman of color”; arguably Sacagawea has her beat by about 17 years.

    @data dave: If your quarter hasn’t been messed with outside the mint (i.e., soaked in acid or buffed really aggressively) you might have one struck on the wrong planchet stock. There’s a run of 1970D quarters struck from stock meant for dimes; the diagnosis is a weak strike & a weight of 4.2g Yours is rather too heavy for that. It might just be too-thin quarter stock that the planchet was punched out of. There are images of quarters (1970D & others) struck on too-thin planchets you can compare yours to.

  150. Phil says

    @ Gov. Drone

    The article says first Lady Liberty as a woman of color, not the first woman of color ever on a coin. So CNBC’s article is accurate.

  151. Barry says

    I think the stars on the coin are too big but, I may still end up getting the coin in one version or another. btw, compare general population and prison demographics and see the stats for yourselves as to who commits the majority of crimes. .

  152. cagcrisp says

    Louis seems to have written a fair Balanced article about the 2017 HR coins. It’s a very Divisive coin. Always has been and always will be. The design has been determined.

    Whether the coin will be received by the PURCHASING public is yet to be determined.

    A Lot that like the design will not have the means to purchase the Gold and will settle for the Silver medal.

    My prediction, even with a 100k limit and a two year time frame, the Gold will not sell as well as the 2015 HR.
    My prediction is that the 2017 Medal will out sell the 2016 Medal. (NOT a very high bar to overcome)…


  153. JBK says

    Over on the PCGS forum someone posted a picture of a 2017P cent he got in circulation. It has the P mintmark.

    (So far) he insists it is real. Has any one else heard of the mint using the mintmark on Philadelphia cents this year?

  154. Numismatrix says

    MCM – 2017 HR Offering:


    “2017 American Liberty High Relief 1 oz. Proof Gold Coins Are Coming Soon”
    For only the second time in history, the U.S. Mint will issue a $100 Gold coin. 2017 marks 225 years since the U.S Mint was founded, and to commemorate this impressive achievement, the Mint will be striking very special, 2017 $100 1 oz. High Relief Proof Gold American Liberty Coins with edge inscriptions that read “225th ANNIVERSARY”!

  155. Erik H says

    So the 2017 Liberty will be the FIRST ever HR proof from the US Mint. Looks good in the video.

  156. Louis says

    For those who are eager for new MNB posts, Diana is busy with another project but told me she hopes to be back soon.

  157. Dustyroads says

    Wow, that’s a super nice presentation box for the 225, not to mention how nice the coin looks in proof. Thanks Numismatrix for the above link.

  158. Larry says

    I rarely buy commemoratives, but the lions on the reverse of the Lions Club coin sure do look great. I might just buy one.

  159. Hidalgo says

    I like the look of the 2017 UHR gold coin. Looks much better in the picture than in sketch form. Buying the series of ethnic Liberty gold coins may be much more appealing that a set of First Spouse gold coins…..

  160. Numismatrix says

    Also FYI : Dollar Bill Plans

    Last year, after a public campaign to put a woman on the $10 bill, the Treasury secretary, Jacob J. Lew, announced a broad remaking of the nation’s paper currency — the bills that, unlike a $100 coin, circulate among many Americans every day.

    Harriet Tubman, the abolitionist and former slave, will appear on the $20 bill, and women and civil rights leaders will be added to the $5 and $10 bills.

  161. Erik H says

    Numismatrix, the NY times article says that the medal will cost $40 – $50.

    That means an increase in $$ and mintage. At least this year there will only be one mint mark to buy “P”.

  162. Erik H says

    The article also says, “collectors expect the black Lady Liberty coin to be popular”. I guess the author hasn’t researched many coin collector forums.

  163. So Krates says

    “Over the past five years, the Mint has had approximately $265 million of negative seigniorage resulting from penny production and $231 million from producing nickels. These are significant losses that reduce amounts the Mint returns to the Treasury General Fund. For a business, this is unsustainable….” -US Mint

  164. gatortreke says

    NY Times:
    In addition to the 100,000 gold coins — more than is typical for this sort of commemorative coin — that will be printed at West Point, the Mint will also produce 100,000 of what it calls medals, silver reproductions of the image that will sell for around $40 to $50.

    Is the West Point mint getting into the engraving and printing business? Are they making $100 notes?

    So, $40-50 for the Liberty silver medals is some premium, almost Canadian Mint like. That said, I’m sure I’ll buy one or two, I have a series to maintain and I like the desigh.

    Given the news of the P mint mark on the cent this year, I wonder what other surprises the Mint has in store for us to celebrate the Quasiquibicentennial? This is a fantastic opportunity for Congress to send the cent out on a high note!

  165. Peter says

    Honoring everyone and every anniversary seems to be the goal of the mint, and that is all fine and good. But who has the interest and the money to collect most or all of them?
    The results end up getting so diluted, and interest fades for most collectors until something grabs their attention and fits their budget. The mint should be issuing about 25% of current numbers IMO.

  166. Old Big Bird says

    Does anyone know when the US Mint is going to list their February product schedule? Before January 31st?
    I have no idea what their big secret is about showing a fuller schedule.

  167. curt A says

    @Longarm I don’t understand why only the simple minded would buy this coin. I think it simple minded to think only white people buy coins from the mint.

  168. earthling says

    Expect the next guest “Lady Liberty” to be Brucey Jenner all twinked up as some sort of iconic transgendered symbol of our new confused America. What will our Chinese Masters think about us then? They probably will just increase production of everything and as long as we keep their factories busy, they won’t care.

    😉 😂

  169. Old Big Bird says

    Here is the great logic of our US Mint and their Enrollment Plans.
    I have 13 different items on enrollment plan. I have two credit cards in their system.
    Some how their system switched all of the enrollment payment from my normal VISA to Master Card.
    I tried to go into their system and it shows you the current payment card and has a payment update option.
    I went there and it show both cards and enter a new card.
    So I switch it from Master Card to Visa (a dot show that) then go to the bottom of the screen and hit the
    Payment Update. I go back to the enrollment screen and then billing and it IS STILL MASTER CARD.
    So I call the US Mint. I nice young lady answers and she is doing the same thing I had done, Guess what IT DOES NOT CHANGE. The nice young lady goes and asks her supervisor and here is the magical answer to resolve it
    Go in to each enrollment Item and DELETE the Master Card and then it will let you switch to the Visa.
    Then you can re-enter the Master card as an optional card all over again.

    WHAT A SYSTEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  170. a Bob says

    Earthling ‘s comment is yet another example of why this blog is the worst. I’m done with it and am moving on to better.

  171. earthling says

    Old Big Bird

    Sounds about par for everything online. Seems like nothing works as its supposed to. Either our programmers are asleep or the Russian Hackers are having a little fun. Might be both ways – are Russian free-lancers doing all our programming these days?

  172. paulg says

    Unlike our former co-bloggger, A Bob, I like this blog due to the wide variety of opinions expressed here from all over the country and beyond on the subject of coins and associated topics. Although some may be offended by comments made by someone who may be thousands of miles away, I can see that geography can play a role in the process and formation of our opinions. Although I don’t often agree with many of the opinions stated, I think the airing of our major differences is healthy and may help us to avoid the pitfalls of the “group think” mentality, which can be used as an agent for control by the powers that be, or could a destructive force in a democratic society. One needs only to read up on the history of England before the settlement of America to understand why the progressive, though ancient, ideas for for governing the United States were chosen by the Founding Fathers, and why, to this day, we are free to quibble over differences of opinions.

  173. earthling says

    So who IS buying Coins from the Mint these days? White folks? Coin Collector Folks? Flipper Folks? Rich Folks? Simple Folks? Hopium Addicted Folks?

    One things for sure, with the steadily declining mintages, low mintage loving folks are gonna be the last folks standing , really soon.

    But watch out, the Shakers are disapearing really fast. Coin Buyers are looking too much like Shakers lately.


  174. Just Another Dave In Pa says

    Diversity and multi-cultural society has been pumped like a First Spouse Gold coin for a long time now. It’s not all it’s cracked up to be. See Israel/Palestine, for example.

    I don’t see diversity as a strength. Diversity of thoughts and opinions is good but diversity of identities might be a weakness. This country is as divided as it’s ever been. The United States are very divided. We can blame this ,that or the other but the identity divisions among us (racial divisions, gender, sexual, socioeconomic, etc.) are more than what unites us. Our differences are exploited for political purposes and so diversity is a useful tool for those in power.

    I hope we can all find a way to forget our differences and live together in peace.

    As far as the coins. Meh, it’s another gimmick.

  175. KCSO says

    Erik H says
    JANUARY 13, 2017 AT 7:57 PM

    “Numismatrix, the NY times article says that the medal will cost $40 – $50.

    That means an increase in $$ and mintage. At least this year there will only be one mint mark to buy “P”.”

    – Guess again Erik, one never knows about the wiley mint!

    Unless there’s been some guidance more definite, which I highly doubt, here’s an excerpt from a Coin World article from 90 days ago:

    “A 2017 American Liberty silver medal set, if the U.S. Mint were to move ahead with the product, would incorporate medals struck at the Philadelphia Mint, the San Francisco Mint, the Denver Mint and the West Point Mint, each bearing the Mint mark of its producer.”

    – So, if that goes through, it’ll be a 4-coin’er.., or at least as an option, and with the different finishes, one would expect a higher associated cost, and hence $40 to $50 bucks a pop.., or $160 to $200.

    Cha Ching!

  176. KCSO says


    There is an article over on CN that states that the 225th Uncirculated set would be comprised of 4 medals…, yep, what’s what is says.

    I’m surprised that passed QA, as how can there be an “uncirculated” medal set..???

    Beat’s me.., though knowing the mint, they’ll be looking to capitalize off all of the marketing they are going to be investing into the whole 225th Anniversary and their HR design.., so stand by for anything and variations to come..,

    Given the success of the ’16 Liberty medals, I would anticipate the mint to go over board with excess.., since they are releasing the 4 coin set later in the years,., maybe it’ll take the form of a 4-coin JFK silver-like set, though just with the medals in 4 different finishes. My 2 cents.

  177. cagcrisp says

    Decisions have been made to poke a Sleeping Bear. From my point of view it”s never a Wise decision to poke a Sleeping Bear.

    We will see how this plays out for the Poke-er…

  178. KCSO says

    earthling says, “So who IS buying Coins from the Mint these days? White folks? Coin Collector Folks? Flipper Folks? Rich Folks? Simple Folks? Hopium Addicted Folks?”

    How about one with a lot of discretaionary income? Does that count?

    For kicks, let’s do a cost build up and a little speculation on Au at release time, shall we?

    The ’15 HR had a premium of $490.

    Now, I’m betting that given the ’17 HR PROOF and RAISED EDGE lettering, that will likely increase the premium add to the per unit cost. Frankly, I would be shocked if the mint DID NOT raise the premium on the ’17 HR due to these two features (perhaps that’s why the mint stated a mintage of 100,000 coins, THEY NEED that volume to help keep the premium in check, just a thought, though I’ve digressed).

    So, where are we? Premium, right.., so for argument sake, let’s add $25 to the prem taking it from the ’15’s $490 to $515.

    Now, let’s assume that many of the gold analyst are correct and we’ll see Au increase over the 1st and 2nd Quarter, before either stagnating or then dropping considerably (or whatever it does).

    A $515 premium on today’s $1,150+ gold is: a $1,665 High Relief Liberty.

    Now, assuming the analyst are correct, let’s run with an increase to the $1,250+ bracket, now the HR becomes a $1,765’ish coin.

    At $1,300, a $1,815 coin.., you get the picture.

    Just a little speculation for fun.., though what we do know is that the US Dollar will be key and it if will remain strong, or show signs of weakness; BREXIT comes around again this spring, does it get punted again or does Article 50 get enacted?; and then there’s the unknowns associated wth the new Administration and the burgeoning love affair with the Press.

    Just one or any two combo’s of the above are likely to put some significant influence on Gold demand. Maybe? Seen this play out before?

    So I guess the short answer is this won’t be a cheap coin if sold today.. and come 06 April 2017, it may require a tad bit more discretionary funds to enjoy this beaut!

    Question back at ya.., does it fit within your “Price to Joy” ratio? That’s what we all get to assess.., :). I know my Walkers just got A LOT more attractive in my collection.

  179. KCSO says

    Cag.., you talking about Putin? The US Dollar? That nut in North Korea? Wikileaks? Or THE Sleeping Bear?

  180. says

    I happen to like the differences of opinions expressed on this blog, what I don’t like is the limiting of free speech just cause some folks don’t agree with what others say, this isn’t Nazi Germany. Although I don’t always agree with what earthling says I do find his comments entertaining most of the time and nobody has the right to shut him up. If you don’t like certain comments then just skip them, but you will never silence the few just because your the majority.

    Isaiah’s Job

  181. KCSO says

    Hidalgo says, “Looks much better in the picture than in sketch form. Buying the series of ethnic Liberty gold coins may be much more appealing that a set of First Spouse gold coins…..”

    Surprisingly, this is one of the rare, few times that Hildago and I agree. And for it to be on this subject, just blows me away.

    Anyhoo, I’ve had similar thoughts over the past week that this will be the pseudo-continuation of the FS series. And for it NOW TO BE a series and VERY OPEN ENDED, makes it all the more interesting.., such as:

    Just Random Thoughts.., NOW that it’s a series..,

    Could the mint mix if up with a different finish on each version?,

    Could they add unique differentiating aspects to them and tie in as they have with the 225th Anniversary celebration and with raised edge lettering and Prood finish?

    So now this is a Series..

    Is the 2015 HR soon to be the low of the series? Or the high water mark?

    Should you buy in now to have a collection in which by the 4th or 5th release, you’re buying into new lows that rival the FS series? Or does the Latin-American coin show up looking like Jo-Lo, sales hit platinum status, and ’17 HR is relegated to the bowls of low mintage wonders..,

    Now that this is a series, which I really kind of like, you all have some decisions to make..

    To commit, or not to commit? What is your “Price to Joy” ratio and what’s the future of your ’15 High Relief coin(s)?

    Just some random thoughts, if this is still a coin blog, perhaps I’m lost.., though I will say this, I’m really surprised that there’s not more discussion, thoughts, or chatter on High Relief now being a series….

    Hildago.., perhaps you can lead us off with some thoughts.., or some one, please.

  182. KCSO says

    Lonarm – it’s an easy equation Partner..,

    You just, DO NOT Feed the Trolls (DNFTT). That’s it.

    If folks wouldn’t play to these imbeciles, and just enact a DNFTT policy.., then these tools would just go back to playing with their cats, or whom ever imaginary friends they may have

    Simple as pie – Word!

  183. cagcrisp says

    We are a Long way from this becoming a series. We will soon have a new administration in place and for the most part the new administration doesn’t like Very much from the past administration.

    I would say we Will get a new HR 1 oz. Gold coin. I just doubt it goes down like it has been Presented without some changes.

    To the victor goes the spoils…

  184. Barry says

    Many coin buyers have moved over to bullion buying. Just look at the sales numbers. Clad sets don’t offer much hope in retaining their value based on asking prices of older sets though of course exceptions exist. “Mint to Demand” should be done away with and a mintage limit put on everything along with a limited time frame to purchase. While values in the secondary market are not important to some they are to others. So what is the harm done to put some reasonable limitations on mint products ? Do some products really need to be available for a year ? If nothing else at least expand bullion issues to keep customers.

  185. Erik H says

    The only way I’ll buy 4 medals with different mint marks is if they have different finnishes. This year’s “W” & “S” was a one time thing for me.

  186. earthling says

    While many of the “Coins” that come out of the US Mint are not to my liking , most of the Medals , I do like. As a quick guess, I’d say that probably an Artist is allowed to do as they want, on a Medal. On a Coin , there are probably many restrictions that limit full artistic expression. Hence a stroll down the Mints Coin “Aisle” is about the same as taking a stroll down a Supermarkets Cereal Aisle. Except of course there are more eager buyers in a Cereal Aisle.

    Can’t wait for the next Code Talkers Medal. So far I have all of them and no complaints about any of them. Nothing but praise – for the Artists, the various Indian Tribes and the US Mint.

  187. cagcrisp says

    For those that haven’t Looked recently at secondary pricing on the 2016 Silver Medals, Pricing has Improved considerably from where it was. A Specific dealer that purchases Considerable inventory on various products appears to have run out of inventory.

    Prices have improved from Low $70’s to the $100+ area.

    A Mintage of 100,000 and an announced pricing of $40-$50 for the 2017 Silver Medals can do Nothing but help the 2016 secondary pricing…

  188. DaveB says

    Agree with KCSO – ignore the morons, unless they make a valid point or express an opinion that isn’t based on ignorance.

  189. Dustyroads says

    The series of coins we have now are based on States and Presidents. Long series tend to get old. Things can change with the HR’s unlike the quarters and FS issues. It’s an interesting idea, but hard to get excited about unless there is something to make them special.
    I believe the US Mint is on to something, but just how special is too hard for me to say.
    The HR coins are going to mean different things to different people, that’s not good if you want your coins to be worth more in the future.
    My prediction is that there will be one winner here and a lot of losers, just as with the FS coins, but probably not to the same extent because there will be fewer HR’s produced.

  190. Macro H. says

    I hope the mint pulls all first spouse coins before the launch of this HR liberty gold coin in April.

  191. MarkInFlorida says

    I’m just gonna buy bullion. This coin is just not attractive to me and if gold goes up (the reason to buy it) everything’s going to be based on spot. Hundreds of dollars premium are going to be wasted. I bet at 100,000, the Mint will end up melting a lot of these.

  192. Barry says

    In regards to the mint losing out on the penny and nickel they do recoup losses on the dime and quarter that are less than 2 and 4 cents in melt. Having said that while they do lose out on the two coins let’s not forget there is essentially no effort to control govt. spending. If they would return any extra money no doubt some other dept. would claim it and waste it.

  193. cagcrisp says

    Now that the 7 day return policy is over for the NPS Gold Uncirculated, here are some Fun Facts about the NPS Gold Uncirculated…

    1. Launch Day Sales were 1,489
    2. Launch Week Sales were 1,794
    3. The Next 31 weeks Sales were 1,452
    4. Total Sales through 10/30/16 were 3,246
    5. Previous 10 weeks sales to 10/30/16 averaged 24.7/week
    6. The Next 9 weeks Sales (10/30/16-12/29/16) were 1,955
    7. Total Sales through 01/01/16 were 5,201

    …SO… 60% of 10/30/16 Sales were recorded in the Last 9 weeks of the offering. My guesstimate is that there would have been Additional 225 (Average of 24.7 for previous 10 weeks to 10/30/16) sales without the Chasing.

    …SO…of the last 9 weeks of Sales, 88% were Chasers going after the newest Low Mintage Wonder (until 2017 when Boys Town Gold Uncirculated will be the New Low Mintage Wonder)…

  194. KCSO says

    Ironic you post that, I was reading over another thread earlier this a.m.., I’ll attempt to post it here and it has some resent sales.

    I believe you commented previously something about demand, & if there’s not demand currently presiding over a coin, what’s to generate it out of thin air?

    This might be messy:

    Deflation setting in, just saw this ms70 on the bay ebay.com/itm/2016-W-5-Gold-PCGS-MS70-100th-Anniversary-National-Parks-IN-HAND-UNC-16CB-/162355104869?hash=item25cd1e4c65:g:VIUAAOSwo4pYduGa
    RaufusRaufus Posts: 5,747 ✭✭✭January 12, 2017 2:31AM
    Land of the Free because of the Brave!
    youniqueyounique Posts: 586 ✭✭January 12, 2017 3:02AM
    Unbelievable, take a look at this, thinking same coin with a price reduction in approximately a half hour to 599.77…..http://www.ebay.com/itm/2016-W-5-Gold-PCGS-MS70-100th-Anniversary-National-Parks-IN-HAND-UNC-16CB-/162355104869?hash=item25cd1e4c65:g:VIUAAOSwo4pYduGa

  195. KCSO says

    Here’s the thread, just go to the last page, Page 8


    What I find most interesting is how the discussion evolved, post 27 December, from one of much speculations and enthusiasm, to now of one of reality awareness of demand, or lack there of, and that most probable, there where a true 3,200 in sales.

    A lot of folks are going to be stuck with a $5 UNC that they don’t want, when it can be had within the next 8 months at < $374. Well, that seems where this one is headed anyway.

  196. KCSO says

    I find this intriguing –

    4. Total Sales through 10/30/16 were 3,246

    6. The Next 9 weeks Sales (10/30/16-12/29/16) were 1,955

    7. Total Sales through 01/01/16 were 5,201

    What this tells me is that it’s pretty hopeless if you’re a collector and would like to have a common coin turn into something special. Too many flea market flippers resides in this hobby.

    Guess those low mintage articles and babblers have an over all impact afterall…

  197. sharks2th says

    I may have missed some comments on this, but didn’t the initial indications show the sketch of HR-O-21 for the 2017 HR coin and the actual design chosen was HR-O-08? I think this is why many think this coin is better than the initial indications. The 08 design is more in line with the traditionally used profile style of portraying liberty on U.S. coins when a profile is used. The 21 design is done more like the FS styled coins, which can be weak if the artist does not properly proportion the facial dimensions based on the angle and distance perspective the artist is trying to convey. I think the HR-O-08 design is a better choice than the HR-O-21 design. The design options are in the MNB article of March 15, 2016 for those who want to take another look.

  198. says

    I have always wondered this –

    If the 2015 High Relief was selected from the aforementioned designs..,

    Then Why wasn’t new or more designs solicited or even considered for the ’17 HR design?

  199. sharks2th says

    Thanks for posting the link KCSO. There are still some usable designs in that pool, but there is no reason not to evaluate some more for the possible future designs.

    I agree on the numbers on the NPS UNC gold. It looks like the speculators bought heavily in the closing days.

  200. one fine dime says

    longarm says:

    A black liberty, lol, just goes to show with enough hype the simpleminded will buy anything. How about an alien coin? Oh yeah, that’s already been done.”

    I wonder how many plan on buying the fake moon landing coin? Just proves my point that the simpleminded will buy anything that’s shoved in their face.

    I don’t know if these remarks qualify as “troll” comments, but they are obviously intended to provoke an emotional response.

    I will say that the first comment is blatantly racist, and the second comment suggests this individual believes in conspiracy theories about the moon landing not being real.

    longarm appears to believe himself to be superior in some way by calling others “simpleminded” in both these comments.

  201. one fine dime says

    Regarding 11th hour purchases on the NPS $5 UNC, you guys are totally missing one crucial detail. Gold fell to its lowest point all year that week and therefore the sale price on that coin was at its lowest point in that last week. I bought the coin and I’m sure many others did at that point in time not on speculation but simply because of a lower sale price.

    Personally, I waited to buy as I was seeing a downward gold trend over several months.

  202. Macro H. says

    Some individual behaves very well on pcgs forum, but becomes quite egocentric and arrogant here. Is it because of pcgs forum’s policy or because that there are many more big time dealers there?

  203. Scott says

    I predict record low sales for most 2017 mint offerings for many reasons. They will continue to be overpriced with lackluster designs that are uninspiring. Lousy customer service and shipping are also driving away business for the U.S. Mint.

  204. cagcrisp says

    “Regarding 11th hour purchases on the NPS $5 UNC, you guys are totally missing one crucial detail. Gold fell to its lowest point all year that week and therefore the sale price on that coin was at its lowest point in that last week. I bought the coin and I’m sure many others did at that point in time not on speculation but simply because of a lower sale price. ”

    That’s a good narrative, however, the facts just don’t bear out the conclusion that “since Gold was at it’s Lowest point then the 11th hour purchasers were NOT Low Mintage Wonder Chasers.”

    Gold prices fell for ALL 4 Gold commemorative products and IF there were Not Predominate Chasers then you Statistically would see close to the same percentage of sales for ALL 4 individual Gold commemorative coins because the Gold price drop affected each coin.

    That’s just Not the case. Spin it Anyway you want but Sales Spiked considerably more for the Uncirculated Gold NPS vs. the other 3 Gold commemorative coins.

    W/e 10/30/16 Sales for Each Individual Gold commemorative coin:

    Twain Proof 12,451
    Twain Uncirculated 5,363
    NPS Proof 4,373
    NPS Uncirculated 3,246

    W/e 01/01/17 Sales for Each Individual Gold commemorative coin:

    Twain Proof Gold 13,271 +820
    Twain Uncirculated Gold 5,701 +338
    NPS Proof Gold 4,915 +542
    NPS Uncirculated Gold 5,201 +1,955

    …SO…In the Last 9 weeks of the offering there were More Sales of the Gold Uncirculated NPS vs. ALL the other 3 commemorative Golds COMBINED…

    Percentage wise from 10/30/16 sales were:

    Twain Proof Gold +7%
    Twain Uncirculated Gold +6%
    NPS Proof Gold +12%
    NPS Uncirculated Gold +60%

  205. one fine dime says

    oops. forgot this troll-type comment from earthling:

    Expect the next guest “Lady Liberty” to be Brucey Jenner all twinked up as some sort of iconic transgendered symbol of our new confused America.

    you should keep your asinine hate speech to yourself buddy!

    Live and let live!

    E Pluribus Unum!

  206. one fine dime says

    all I’m saying is that it is “part” of the story cag. I guarantee I wan’t the ONLY one that was on the fence abt buying one and the combination of low mintage AND lowest all year gold spot price in the last week helped in my decision to purchase. In the end, does it really matter that much? Is your goal to chastise “low mintage wonder chasers” or to compile a psychological study on the motivating factors of US Mint customers, or something else?

  207. Macro H. says

    chastise “low mintage wonder chasers”

    No. no incentives to chastise except this hypothetical scenario

    You are a seasoned collector and consider yourself a smart cookie.
    Anticipating potential low demand for certain coins, you buy quite a few and pay pcgs to get first strike labels.
    A few weeks before the sales deadline, there is a sudden spike in demand from “flippers”. So the smart cookie’s expected profits decline dramatically. Even worse, those “evil flippers” bought the coins at a lower price (thanks to lower spot). However, should this “smart cookie” put the last minute demand spike from flippers in his calculation when he made his initial purchasing decision? This is a purely hypothetical scenario…….

  208. says

    Cag says, “That’s a good narrative, however, the facts just don’t bear out the conclusion that “since Gold was at it’s Lowest point then the 11th hour purchasers were NOT Low Mintage Wonder Chasers.”

    Cag – You are over looking one crucial detail, I just can’t believe YOU of all people would miss it!

    Which is, those that jumped in at the last hour.., they saved Twelve Dollars & Fifty Cents! Yep, $12.50!

    They were holding out for $12.50, not sure how you missed that 😉

    I bet right after that purchase, they also saved a bunch of money on their car insurance by switching to GEICO!

  209. earthling says

    one fine dime says

    JANUARY 15, 2017 AT 11:30 AM

    oops. forgot this troll-type comment from earthling:

    “Expect the next guest “Lady Liberty” to be Brucey Jenner all twinked up as some sort of iconic transgendered symbol of our new confused America. ”

    you should keep your asinine hate speech to yourself buddy!

    Live and let live!

    E Pluribus Unum!

    So who exactly is this person to sit on a throne and make all these proclaimations about “asinine hate speech “? So where do you stand on these strange topics of putting all sorts of “representatives of other groups” on Gold Coins as our new ” Liberty”? And if I think the topic of Men becoming Women/ Women becoming Men , is just a bit mind boggling and even strangely ” humorous” , how is that asinine hate speech?

    Personally, I have to wonder about a guy like Mr Jenner, given his history as an Olympic Champion and all, who makes a public change as he did. How prevalent is this desire to become another gender? Seems like every other week, there’s another crossover by someone, in the headlines.

    So given how widespread this seems to have become then yes, I think it’s totally appropriate to expect a Transgendered Lady Liberty at some point. And who better than the high profile Brucey Jenner?

    I think the Mint would love the headlines and Sales would be sky high.

  210. earthling says


    I bet right after that purchase, they also saved a bunch of money on their car insurance by switching to GEICO!

    Thank you KCSO for that great line. OMG that was the best post I’ve ever seen here. Laughed so hard I need to go relax.

  211. one fine dime says

    “representatives of other groups” you say earthling?!


    We live in a multicultural nation, and a multicultural world. With a moniker like “earthling” you would think one would realize that we are truly ONE HUMAN FAMILY.

    I’m not sitting on any throne, I’m a fellow American, and I’m going to call out racism and bigotry and sexism wherever I see it buddy!

    Keep your rude and disrespectful comments about “other groups” to yourself!!

  212. one fine dime says

    I’m a human being dipshit, what the F are you? Are you really a total ignoramus or just pretending?

  213. earthling says

    OK mam, forgive me for being so slow on who you are. With your rude asinine language it has become obvious why you need the alt.

    Have a nice day.

    Gonna go learn about Fuel Injection now.

  214. Zeke says

    The eye-rolling on this blog at the idea of a “black” Liberty _is_ shameful. Earthling’s bigoted comparisons to aliens and Bruce Jenner are an extreme example, but lots of folks here have dismissed the decision as “political correctness” when it’s nothing of the sort.

    Liberty/Columbia is an allegorical personification of the United States. Not an actual woman. This isn’t like casting Tom Hanks to portray Nancy Reagan. Liberty is an IDEA, not a specific white lady. She has historically had very different depictions – compare the Morgan and de Francisci versions, for example.

    That she is young, and a woman, is part of a poetic tradition. But the idea that she is of a particular race is not. It is especially fitting that there should be a depiction with African-American features given that black people on this continent were denied the promise of liberty for centuries.

  215. Dave swfl says

    This blog is getting disgusting. Been reading since i,stopped, posting, but now will stop,reading too.
    Too bad, because at one time it was very informative.
    Guess that’s what you get when the mint has such poor leadership and product selections.
    I,am switching to bullion.

  216. one fine dime says

    wow KCSO! damn straight, you cannot make this shit up! bigotry and racism running rampant in the coin community!

    maybe we should start a new club, “Coin Collectors Against Racism and Bigotry”

    you with me?
    …i didn’t think so.

  217. Barry says

    Is anyone ready to just keep people (real or not ) off of coins for the next ten years after reading posts here and elsewhere ?

  218. Just Another Dave In Pa says

    @ one fine dime -Bigotry is defined as follows

    “intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself”.

    sjws are some of the most intolerant snowflakes on the planet.

    Change comes whether we like it or not. MLK would be considered a sexist homophobe today as would Gandhi.

    All people have faults and blind spots and feet of clay. We should all worry more about our own behavior and not about people we don’t even know on the Internet.

  219. one fine dime says

    Dave in PA –

    from wikipedia:
    bigot is a term used to describe a prejudiced or closed-minded person, especially one who is intolerant or hostile towards different social groups (e.g. racial or religious groups)”

    what do you “tolerate”?
    do you and others “tolerate” a black liberty on a new gold coin issued by the US Mint?! i see a lot of intolerance for this coin from many who frequent MNB, coin news net, etc. though reactions may in fact be fairly split.

    As far as so called SJWs, I would recommend taking each person as they come. A social justice activist strives to create a fair and just society. Clearly you are using “SJW” as a derogatory term (feel free to look that one up).

    Do you want to be labeled and put in a box? you talk in vague generalities about MLK, ghandi, and so called SJWs, and your “point” really holds no water whatsoever w/o specifics. these two men were some of the most tolerant in history, civil disobedience is by definition tolerant.

    trust me, i do not care abt you or any other anonymous coin collectors on the internet. what i do care about is the future of my country and my planet. and when i am faced with narrow-mindedness and intolerance to the concept of a black liberty, I’m going to let it be known that bigotry is not ok.

    some like to say that intolerance to bigotry is itself a kind of bigotry. that kind if circular argument doesn’t have any traction either.

    it’s ok, i know most of this sort of thing comes from insular bubbles in white america where everyone in a community looks the same and thinks the same. but that’s why college is so important, as it usually builds a critical thinking skill set…but alas, sometimes even college isn’t enough. depends on the individual.

    multiculturalism is here to stay. i say get used to it. try to accept it and celebrate diversity. but if it is really too late for you, if you find that the sphincter of your brain is simply too closed, and you truly believe that an allegorical representation of “liberty” can only be white, maybe your kids or grandkids will “get it”!

  220. earthling says

    Seems to me the time is right for this Coin. There are a lot of different opinions about it and the discussions I have seen are really ugly and not getting any better with time. If nothing else it has exposed a lot of hidden resentment that surely is not healthy for any society to be carrying.

    Bringing out this hostility can result ,very hopefully , in moving forward. Hopefully moving forward toward a healthier atmoshere for everyone that lives in the United States of America. Whether that “everyone” is Black, White, Yellah, Gareen, Hillbilly, Redneck, Coin Buyer, Gay, Straight, Granny, Tranny, Young, Old or Whatever, we truely do need to treat each other as one of our family.

    I do plan to buy a few of these Coins now. Not for myself but I plan to somehow give them to some young lady that will benefit spiritually from knowing that she is a beautiful human being, regardless of the message put out by the old school ad world. Actually the Ad World changed a long time ago. What hasn’t changed is the cloud of what used to be. It lingers like a fog. The fog is dissapating but still it exists in heavy patches. One day it will be gone . This Coin will be a reminder of change from what used to be .

    I guess Artists are truely our intellectual elite. Our one hope for a better world.

    Bravo US Mint.

  221. data dave says

    I love your last post cagcrisp – it always brings the blog back to a grounding state. The new lady liberty has energized the blogs, a lot more comments to read through than normal.

    Lovers love and haters hate! Enjoy your coins and have a nice day.

  222. Old Big Bird says

    Geez I see I did not miss much by not getting on this blog yesterday. Is this a coin blog or a political blog or a race baiting blog. Come on folks, get on to the coins and not all of the other political and race baiting rhetoric.

    If you do not like the Lady Liberty coin than just do not buy it. There are other gold or silver coins to buy.
    If the mint sales are low than they are low for that coin.

    I do look for information on this blog and even thought I am older you can always learn things So let’s get back to the coins and how the Mint treats us coin collectors.

  223. one fine dime says

    I hear ya Old Big Bird!

    I do enjoy this blog, but I have to say one thing. What is with cagcrisp and his apparent OCD domination here with constant Gold price updates?! The gold spot price is public knowledge anyone who cares can look up at any given time. Give it a rest already buddy.

    There are a ton of gold and precious metal live spot price apps out there…I have one on my iPhone.

    Do you all really look to cagcrisp to provide these updates?

  224. cagcrisp says

    This is my Prediction for Gold from the US Mint…

    IF and a Big IF, Trump gets his 20% boarder tax then the US Mint will Move entire Gold Grid Matrix Up $150 -$200.

    I don’t think he will get the entire 20 % but I Think it is getting more likely that he might get Some …

  225. achmed says

    and en passant the usmint would produce many more low mintage wonders. I think they will not be that stupid.

  226. data dave says

    Cagcrisp only posts the gold price when there is a possible change in the pricing grid. Can’t believe you can complain about everything.

  227. says

    Wow, now I’m really confused, am I a racist for saying that Obama is a brown clown or the WORST PRESIDENT EVER… I must be cause one lame dime says so, or does all those houses I helped build for Habitat in black neighborhoods make me a racist? How about all the playgrounds I’ve supervised building in low income areas? That must surely have been racially motivated, or how about all the countless hours volunteering at the local food pantry, unloading, unpacking, sorting and stacking and packing up boxes of food for all those poor folks? And the list goes on and on with all the racist things I’ve done. Or maybe, just maybe, all the self proclaimed racism experts (one lame dime) are wrong and I’m not a racist after all for making comments they find distasteful. To them I say “Buck it up Buttercup” and Man Up, cause that boat don’t float. And my advice would be to get off your fat butt and roll up your sleeves and go down to the poverty stricken areas in your town and get your hands dirty trying help the less fortunate. Maybe then you’ll understand what a racist really is or isn’t.

  228. gary says

    @earthling… you said, “I guess Artists are truely our intellectual elite. Our one hope for a better world.”

    Speaking as an artist, I do not regard myself (or most other fellow artists) as being anything extraordinarily “intellectual” or in any way “elite” when compared any other member of any society. The only thing we attempt to do is engage, to observe, distill, interpret and then make something tangible for others to (hopefully) observe and reflect upon – with your own personal views and in your own personal way. In short, we really don’t possess any special magic gift that isn’t already genetically predisposed to every human being. That said, artists are really no singular source of hope to rely on for a better world.

  229. achmed says

    @longarm: Yes I think that it is racism when you say: “brown clown”. You could write “clown” if you think so, but mentioning the colour is not necessary. By the way: I think he has been a good president. I would like to have a german cancler like him.

  230. Dustyroads says

    cagcrisp, Mexico has recently added a 20% tax to Pemex fuel which I’m sure you’re aware of. I can’t help but wonder if President Nieto already is anticipating higher border taxes.

  231. says

    Final 2016 Silver Eagle Sales came in at 37,701,500 from the US Mint.

    The Mint released the first 2017 coins Wednesday, announcing 3,747,500 2017 Silver Eagles sold on the first day of sales.

    2017 Gold Eagle Coin sales were also strong, with 79,500 oz sold.

  232. cagcrisp says

    johnaz says
    JANUARY 16, 2017 AT 12:10 PM

    Gold fix 1206.50

    @johnaz , where are you getting that fix from?…

  233. Dustyroads says

    longarm, And who are making those large purchases?

    BTW, You have me curious; what was your link “https://fee.org/articles/isaiahs-job/#0” or “Isaiahs job” in reference to? I read the story, so I feel you’re eluding to either the “masses, the remnant, lack of reward, or a corrupt mind in the end. I’m going to throw this in because I know how small our world can be at times; you’re sounding like someone I know of in Colorado….son of a coach?

  234. Dustyroads says

    cagcrisp, In my line of work, basis points can make or break me here, so I need Mexico to be strong. I can’t always rely on Chinese incentives. I would be lying if I said I wasn’t concerned. Not to mention the geopolitical ramifications!

  235. says

    If you want Obama, you can have him. Please, please take him so Americans can make America great again without all his war-mongering.

  236. Darek says

    Achmed your “cancer” is even worst than this clown. She accomplished what he tried to do here, which is to open border for everyone. Tried to talk to “real” German people and they may tell you what they think about what was happened last year when Merkel opened the border, but they may be afraid to tell you because the color of your skin.

  237. one fine dime says

    @longarm –

    I agree, you certainly do sound confused.

    Please know that “A black liberty, lol, just goes to show with enough hype the simpleminded will buy anything. ” and “brown clown” are most certainly obvious racist remarks. This isn’t just “one lame dime” saying so either.

    Feel free to run those comments by any of the black folks you are interacting with over the course of your volunteer efforts in black neighborhoods. See what they have to say about it.

    I applaud your efforts in helping those less fortunate, and I hope you reconcile your confusion as to what is and is not a racist remark.

  238. Imwithher says

    The board has turned into a rant of useless nonsense of ideological bantering , keep it up. May the queen appear soon.

  239. says

    I was just trying to make the point that the majority and their herd mentality, group think can be dangerous and that if there is a remnant out there we must defend their right to speak out even if it goes against the propaganda and social engineering shoved down the masses throats. Simpleminded people will always accept the pre-packaged opinions of the media (one lame dime is a prime example), the lies of the Government (9-11, WMD’s, the brown clown) and the poisonous GMO products hyped constantly just to name a few.

  240. Hidalgo says

    Mint News Blog – are you not moderating these posts and discussions? There is a distinction between freedom of speech and slander, telling lies to hurt others, or to say something with the sole purpose of hurting another person or group of people.

  241. Dustyroads says

    Hidalgo, Louis chimed in not long ago and said the Chief Editor (Diana) was away on another assignment. So yes, it appears the Mint News Blog is on its own.

  242. Darek says

    I would love to have the coin with Trump on the obverse holding the level while building the wall.
    That would be a big HIT.

  243. Old Big Bird says


    Hurray for you that is what I was trying to say early today.
    All this political or racism. they have no place on this blog.
    All this attacking and counter attacking back and forth.

  244. Darek says

    Some people not afford gold or even silver coin, so the copper would be good option for them.
    In regards with Russia love we will have to wait and see. I just want tell you that Trump wasn’t my first option but in general election I voted against Clinton, like millions of people tired of the direction the current clown took it our cuntry. The USA has no respect anymore because of Obama.

  245. one fine dime says

    enough politics. we don’t care that you like little twittler, don the con will be impeached soon anyways. he’s a total traitor. “The USA has no respect”?! Sorry man, but you are totally clueless with those statements. That is precisely what Obama did after the disastrous Bush era. He got the rest of the world (except maybe Russia) to respect the USA again. You think for one second that Mr. Trump is going to have the respect of American citizens or citizens of any other country? What a weird world.

    Back to coins. Here is one to ponder:

  246. Darek says

    One fine dime,
    Don’t tell me that, if some goat boy is flying the drone above our destroyer is form of the respect, and you can talk and talk about similar incidents under Obama.

  247. Darek says

    little fine dime,
    Can you tell me who was caught on “tape” giving message to the Russian prime minister for the guy name Vlad Putin that he is going to be more flexible after the election????

  248. Darek says

    So Krates,
    I’m sorry for my bad English in writing but I am trying my best to learn the language of my new country.

  249. So Krates says

    Even folks who hate his policies should recognize that an impartial observer would say that President Obama, his family and for the most part, his administration have been scandal free and have shown good character. It was a nice eight year break from shootin’ people in the face and stains on dresses. He is a good man.

  250. So Krates says

    Darek – I was referring to jonaz and his misreporting of the London Fix price.

    I was able to understand your oversimplified opinion just fine. You’d prefer our President to be more bellicose, threatening, saber-rattling, poke the Bear, war-mongering, with-us-or-against us, make the sand glow, “mission accomplished” in a flight suit type guy right? Just like CopperFace, I’d bet you think Putin is a better leader than Obama.

  251. joe#2 says

    Regardless who would’ve won Trump, Clinton or Bernie, 95+ % of us (lower to middle class American people) are in the same boat. We’re in this TOGETHER. Let’s all hope for the best one fine dime.

    As far as the coin, I’m personally still deciding… The only thing that bothers me is the 100k mintage. Looks like a stunning coin to me..

    Good luck to all who pick one or more up..:)

  252. Darek says

    So Krates,
    In regards of Putin you would win a bet. He is better leader for his country, but I am going to be happy if he will be gone. I am from the country where russian and germans killed hundreds of thousands of people during WW2andI hate the guys like Putin, but he is better leader in my eyes.

  253. Dustyroads says

    Darek, You are writing English very well, but in the future do not apologize, especially to So Krates.
    So Darek, you like silver and gold, that’s awesome. What country are you originally from?

  254. So Krates says

    Yeah cuz all apologies make you look weak right? Even when you’re wrong. You’d fit right in at The Mint 🙂

  255. one fine dime says

    @joe#2 –
    well said. after reading your comment i happened to read a quote feom Obama’s farewell speech, of a similar sentiment:

    If every economic issue is framed as a struggle between a hard-working white middle class and undeserving minorities…then workers of all shades will be left fighting for scraps while the wealthy withdraw further into their private enclaves.

    We are in this together joe#2. As far as this coin, I certainly can’t afford a $1,600 gold coin right now, but I like it and I hope to buy the silver medal version.

  256. Dustyroads says

    Darek, I see, glad you are here with us. You may have noticed the news stories about the 4,000 US troops now on the Polish border. I hope we can have a peaceful resolution without an escalation into something no one wants to see. Many happy and rewarding days to you Darek.

  257. one fine dime says

    I read the article you posted longarm, about “soft slavery”. Very true. Do you believe the “tyrannical tentacle of the state” can possibly be lessened by Mr. Trump? Did you post this in regards to some relevant conversation on here or just because?

  258. Dustyroads says

    Joe#2, 100,000 is a lot of coins, but at least we know flipping will be taken off the table. Only those truly loving the HR Liberty will be in on this one. Sales are going to come down to a creep at some point, I too wish the Mint wouldn’t put her through that. 50,000 sounds like a better number.

  259. MikeinPA says

    I expect some sort of small mintage surprise in the spring, maybe a new finish on a dollar coin

  260. joe#2 says

    Knowing that it is the 1st coin in a series ( 1 every 2 years ), MIGHT ad a little premium down the road on it possibly. Buy it because you like/love it. UHR would have been nice, But, HR proof looks great as well. Beautiful wood box….

  261. Dustyroads says

    Now I see why the Mint sold the 2015 HR Liberty in a cheap standard box. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, the US Mint continues to find new ways to remain innovative. What I mean by that is that the Mint has been able to avoid, for the most part, repetition.

  262. Dustyroads says

    I think it’s funny that everyone is saying the 225 is the first African American Liberty, while seemingly no one remembers that the 2015 HR is a Liberty of color.

  263. Darek says

    I noticed that American troops arrived in Poland. I also hope that they will only have exercises there without real actions. Thank you and I wish you the same.

  264. paulg says

    Iv’e seen a lot of comments on race and the Presidential changes currently going on in our country, but I have never seen a satisfactory explanation for Obama’s initial election. Since the percentage of blacks is between 10 and 15 per cent, his election could only have occurred with support from whites. if you all remember, the economy at the end of the Bush administration had collapsed, and the country was in fear of a depression. Fox TV’s tirades against Hillary had previously destroyed her candidacy, leaving Obama as the Democratic standard bearer. I don’t think conservatives really believed the country would vote a black man into the Presidency, and all of the black folks I work with doubted it too. Obama would not have become President had not millions of people who had been in fear of losing their their jobs decided to vote for him. Oddly enough, the later improvement in the economy did not help him, as voters fears turned into anger, and the electorate may have become unable to tolerate the many aspects of African American progress, But we now will have an African American Liberty to remember this by.

  265. So Krates says

    Ok, Dusty. This overextended thread has everyone’s hackles up.

    Johnaz , there are several gold prices including the FIX price, the SPOT price, and the FUTURES price. The London Fix price which the Mint uses to calculate the pricing grid is calculated twice per day (AM and PM) and is essentially a snapshot in time of the gold price (fixed) as figured by the major bullion banks trading on the LBMA. The spot price is a fluid price and is always moving during market hours.

    Yesterday the London Fix prices were as Cagcrisp reported: AM $1202.75 PM $1203.00
    Current world market spot price: $1210.80

    They are different!


  266. cagcrisp says

    If you look at a Dollar Index chart for the past few hours and compare it to a Gold chart for the same time frame and you will see that the Two charts are mirror images of each other.

    Markets don’t like uncertainty and May’s speech Today on Brexit is a Major concern for worldwide stock markets And precious metals markets. It appears we are Looking more and more like a Hard Exit.

    Remberber last June what happened after Brexit vote and the aftermath when it Looked like we would Not have a hard exit.

    Initially Gold spiked and worldwide markets plunged. Then concessions were made and markets reacted accordingly.

    Much like U S stock futures selling off 600 points election eve, Gold spiking and then a Specific speech was made and markets reversed course.

    Today’s May speech will determine the course of Great Britain and from my point of view Another step in the direction of the dismantling of the Euro.

    A dismantling of the Euro (or the Dollar for that matter) will cause a spike in Gold…

  267. cagcrisp says

    If you look at a January 2016 Gold chart and a January 2017 Gold chart and you will see the similarities.

    Different reasons, same chart…

  268. data dave says

    Better buy those UNC FS coins now, they are going up on Wednesday! Just joking about what to buy but prices probably are going up. Too bad we couldn’t have purchased the 2017 gold eagles before prices started climbing.

    I think the biggest change in Wash DC is the 6 year log jam has been broken up. Where those logs end up I have no idea.

  269. cagcrisp says

    So Krates gave an excellent post as to the differences between spot, fixes and futures.

    For Mint Gold pricing, the AM and PM Fixes are what the Mint uses.

    KCSO post was accurate. It Sure Appears at this Point that we will get a Gold pricing Increase tomorrow afternoon.

    (All this could change with May’s speech, however, I fear like her US counterpart, that she will Double Down and Gold will move even more down the path of Protectionism and less down the path of free markets)…

  270. Darek says

    Thank you. I started to read the MNB in 2007 when I bought my first gold coins from the US Mint ( Jamestown and two first spouses)

  271. data dave says

    @Larry – My step dad was very active in the Lion’s club so I am thinking about getting him one the silver dollars. I will definitely get before the introductory price expires.

  272. Rick says

    @data Dave I will buy a few 2015 Bird Johnson and Bess Truman Uncirculated Gold Coins. They could be pulled by the Mint at any moment without warning.

  273. Mint News Blog says

    By the way, folks, I want to let you know I haven’t died or gone into witness protection, that MNB is very much alive, and that fresh posts are in the works. So sorry for the delay.


  274. cagcrisp says

    @Rick, Pump it . Pump it. Pump it.

    Don’t let a Good False Rumor get in the way of a Good Pump.

    There are STILL OVER 100 uncirculated Johnson and STILL OVER 100 uncirculated Truman.

    Currently there are 36 Proof Johnson’s.

    I’m Not a buyer, just passing on information…

  275. cagcrisp says

    Another False rumor that has been spread on here is that the Mint can not lose money on hedges.

    This is from an audited report from the Mint:

    “The Mint recorded net loses of $40.2 million on its silver forward contract in FY2016, compared to net gain of $77.6 million in FY 2015.”

    …SO… A negative swing of $117.6 million…

  276. Phil says

    Yea, Diana is back!

    Hurry with that new post Diana as we’ve about reached critical mass around here.

  277. Rick says


    It seems that you immediately attack me without even completely reading my message.

    “They could be pulled by the Mint at any moment without warning.” The Mint did pull several 2013 FS coins when there were well over 100 coins left. I ‘m very curious doubt your true motive for repeatedly discouraging people from buying any first spouse coins over the past two years.

  278. Rick says

    Base on what the US Mint did TO 2013 FS coins, 2015 Bird Johnson and Bess Truman Uncirculated Gold Coins (still have over 99 Left at this point) could be pulled by the Mint at any moment without warning, Under this scenario, a new key for uncirculated spouse coins will emerge.

  279. Rick says


    Too bad if you spent too much on second-tier classic coins. Those coins you bought will have little appreciation potential in decades because of the major demographic trend in this country. The majority if baby boomers are net sellers, not net buyers of those classic coins that you keep pumping here. Sorry.

  280. Brad says


    I feel your pain. We First Spouse collectors have had to endure this type of attitude from pretty much the start of the program. Unfortunately, with only a few exceptions most of them do tend to be valued at pretty much the bullion value. However, I still get a great feeling from knowing that I saw it through and completed the set in both proof and uncirculated, with just over half of a second set of uncirculated coins as well.

    I had originally started out to build two sets of each finish. However, due to rising gold prices and necessary life purchases I had to abandon the second proof set after the 2008’s. I kept the second uncirculated set going through 2011, but buying a house in 2012 put the kibosh on that one too. In fact, to finish raising the money to put 20% down on the house, I sold the Martha Washington, Abigail Adams and Dolley Madison coins from both the extra proof and uncirculated sets, as well as several extra Jefferson Liberty proofs I had. I also sold the extra Lucy Hayes and Lucretia Garfield uncirculated coins back when they were commanding nice premiums for being the then-lowest mintages. That turned out to be a wise move.

    Despite selling off some, I’ve still added a few coins from later years to the partial uncirculated set. It does contain my last extra Eleanor Roosevelt coin, and I also added both 2013 Wilson coins, Grace Coolidge, Lady Bird Johnson and Betty Ford to it. If there is ever future demand, I may try to sell it as a decent “starter lot” for a potential set-builder, or if gold bullion spikes before then I may just sell the bulk of them as bullion and just sell the keys individually for their better premiums.

    At any rate, I have a lot of gold out of it and I had fun doing it. That’s what’s most important.

  281. says

    All Fist Spouse coins are doomed to pretty little.., oops, I mean.., ugly little bullion.

    No Brainer.

    Within 2 years.., the Trubutes, even at a much higher Mintage, will begin to start pulling away from the pack. And yes, I’m still buying

  282. says

    Larry – Maybe, I’m going to wait for Mike Unser on CN to post photos of the Reverse of the Proof first.

    If the Reverse with the lions, in which there NO actual photos of anywhere to be found on the web, comes out highly frosted in varying degrees or is enhanced, then Yes, I’m picking some up.

    If the Reverse is plain vanilla proof – then No, it’ll be a pass.

  283. says

    Larry – should you ask about buying the Boys Town Commorative..,

    The answer here will be a responding NO!

    Not a one! Well, EXCEPT for the $5 UNC GOLD Boy Town coin in which I’m going to buy a dozen, maybe two rolls of ’em!

    Then laugh all the way to the bank when they come in 2,000 under the $5 NPS UNC that nobody will wantt and can’t be flipped.., 😉

    That’s a joke, we’ll sort of.., I might just buy a single roll.

  284. Numismatrix says

    “All Fist Spouse coins are doomed to pretty little.., oops, I mean.., ugly little bullion.” – KC

    Maybe true, but would a full set P/U command a pretty premium ? There might be a
    strong base for this collection . . .

    On Topic :

    New President could give green light to the biggest undeveloped gold mine in the world. It’s right here in America…


  285. says

    Larry, I’m really hoping the Reverse of the lions is enhanced,

    I think it would look sharp and be a very unique Commemorative.

    If not, I’m not sure what may save the offering,
    & I see the $1 UNC coming in lower than the $1 NPS UNC.., historical trends often don’t lie

  286. says

    I am in no way being argumentative with respective to ” There might be a
    strong base for this collection.”

    I would just like for someone to articulate what that base may look like.., demographics is fine,

    And when this happens?
    And what Spurs the change?

    I want all FS collectors to be successful and make a butt load of money from their committed purchases..

    But the pumping has gotten a little extreme, especially from Macro H’ype’

    I wonder just how many slabbed Eleanor’s Macro Hype has that he’s trying to protect, or off load.

    Oh well, not my problem.

  287. Dustyroads says

    I know we’ve talked about this before, but little has been said of it since perfect clarity has been given by the Mint. There’s now no mistaking that the Mint did in deed allow the 2015 HR Liberty to become the “stand alone” coin along with her torch to light the way and holding her Olive branch of peace. I don’t criticize the new coin design because it has it’s merits, but I personally love the allegorical design encompassed by the present facets. It wasn’t very long ago that some of us here were not happy with the Mint for changing their minds about the coin being a one time issue and making it the first coin of a series. Now we’re back to the Mints original plans. The Mint is trying to make long term plans, but it ‘s hard understanding the Mints direction when they don’t seen to know where they’re going themselves.

  288. old sailor bill says

    It’s good to see the Spouse Collectors on the blog again, I’ve enjoyed collecting my Two Plus sets…………I see Apmex is selling a complete proof set $39m-$40m, I’m happy with the gold.
    I plan to pass on extra Spouses on to my grandkids…………….It’s been Fun.
    Olde Sailor Bill

  289. cagcrisp says

    @Numismatrix, “Maybe true, but would a full set P/U command a pretty premium ? There might be a
    strong base for this collection . . .”

    Back in August of 2016 there was a Complete auction of every First Spouse coin Through ALL the 2015 coins.

    76 coins in total were sold. All were either PR70 or MS70.

    Gross proceed with the 17.5% Buyers fee was $83,910.24.

    Net proceeds to the Seller was $71,412.97.

    At the time of the auction a poster that had the Exact same coins in 70’s said he spent approximately $80,000 accumulating his like coins…

  290. Rick says


    you may need to retake FIN 101. I do not care about whether some 2008 FS coins trade around melt or not. My decision here is whether to buy 15 Bird Johnson and Bess Truman Uncirculated Gold Coins before mint pulls them. At this point, I see huge profit potential and limited downside risk. Please let us know your true motivation for keeping bashing FS coins and its collectors over the past two years.

    Base on what the US Mint did TO 2013 FS coins, 2015 Bird Johnson and Bess Truman Uncirculated Gold Coins (still have over 99 Left at this point) could be pulled by the Mint at any moment without warning, Under this scenario, a new key for uncirculated spouse coins will emerge.

  291. hawkster says

    FS coins: Not interested in learning how many and which variety remain for sale.
    Lion’s Club commemorative: The only buyers will be those who have some type of affiliation with this organization, along with “completists” who who feel the compulsion to keep their modern commemorative set complete.

  292. cagcrisp says

    16AL 2016 ATB SILVER UNC 5 OZ – HARP FRY 18,894 +70
    16AN 2016 ATB SILVER UNC 5 OZ – FT MLTR 15,131 +157

  293. cagcrisp says

    16CF 2016 NATIONAL PARK SERVICE CLAD UNC 21,030 (298)
    16CG 2016 NATIONAL PARK SERVICE 3-COIN SET 14,591 (2)

    16CH 2016 MARK TWAIN GOLD PROOF 13,269 (2)
    16CJ 2016 MARK TWAIN GOLD UNC 5,697 (2)
    16CK 2016 MARK TWAIN SILVER PROOF 78,540 (3)
    16CL 2016 MARK TWAIN SILVER UNC 26,285 (6)

  294. cagcrisp says

    16EA 2016 AM EAGLE SILVER PROOF 1 OZ 529,521 +2,931

    16EB 2016 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1 OZ 22,311 + 211
    16EC 2016 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ 5,429 + 48
    16ED 2016 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 1/4 OZ 7,135 –
    16EF 2016 AM EAGLE GOLD PROOF 4-COIN SET 15,934 + 40

    16EG 2016 AM EAGLE SILVER UNC 1 OZ 168,171 +1,105

  295. cagcrisp says

    16RA 2016 AMERICAN $1 COIN & CURRENCY SET 46,430 + 71
    16RB 2016 ANNUAL $1 UNC SET 14,764 (619)

  296. cagcrisp says

    16XA 2016 WALKING LIBERTY 24K GOLD .5OZ 60,411 +399
    16XB 2016 MERCURY DIME 24K GOLD .1OZ 124,891 (8)
    16XC 2016 STANDING LIBERTY 24K GOLD .25OZ 87,171 +373

  297. cagcrisp says

    16SA 2016 FS GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ – NIXON 2,462 +12
    16SB 2016 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – NIXON 1,548 (7)
    16SC 2016 FS GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ – FORD 2,232 + 15
    16SD 2016 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – FORD 1,517 (5)
    16SE 2016 FS GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ – REAGAN 3,314 + 24
    16SF 2016 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – REAGAN 1,776 + 5

    JQ1 2015 FS GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ – TRUMAN 2,598 +3
    JQ2 2015 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – TRUMAN 1,816 + 2
    JQ4 2015 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – EISENHWR 1,921 + 5
    JQ6 2015 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – KENNEDY 6,482 +20
    JQ7 2015 FS GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ – JOHNSON 2,617 + 4
    JQ8 2015 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ – JOHNSON 1,734 + 5

  298. Tinto says


    Not into FS coins at all but into buyer and seller commission …. as mentioned a loooong time ago I will have to sell what is left of my collection before I get too old/etc. and I believe not only is there a buyer’s commission but there is also a seller’s commission/fee/whatever which the auction house hits you with .. and I think it might be 7% to 10 % .. so the final $$ for the seller is reduced … unless the seller has a lot of high value items to sell in which case he/she can probably negotiate a reduced commission and sometimes even no seller’s commission …. (I might be using the terms wrongly but … bottom line both the buyer and seller has to pay a fee to the auctioneer )

  299. one fine dime says

    Is it just me or are there other collectors here that are not into coins JUST to “make a butt load of money”?!

    KCSO’s comments seem to be directed in that way. Is this a coin investment blog? Maybe some would be better served discussing such things in other venues (maybe they all ready do). Personally, I am truly interested in the heritage of coin collecting and the reflection/representations of our culture on our coinage – vintage and modern. In other words, Numismatics.

    Geez, the Boys Town issues haven’t even been released yet and KCSO is freakin’ emphatic:
    Larry – should you ask about buying the Boys Town Commorative…The answer here will be a responding NO!…Not a one!

    Thanks for letting us know how you feel KCSO.

  300. Dustyroads says

    Amazing, 16CB still #2 by 6 coins. That is so funny! Another week of watching this tight game.

  301. one fine dime says


    wow, pretty cool eh?

    with all the national press about the new 2017 gold Liberty coin, and the fairly lackluster design on the one and only 2017 commemorative $5 issue (and peripheral subject matter), and gold prices likely rising (due to Trump and Brexit volatility)…I do think KCSO has a good shot at being right about the yet-to-be-released UNC boys town $5 coming having an even lower final mintage.

  302. one fine dime says


    If you have any real information about this supposed “biggest undeveloped gold mine in the world. It’s right here in America“…feel free to pass it along.

    That article contains no actual info, and that company has been accused of fraud….Stansberry Research sounds like a real shill.

  303. data dave says

    My thoughts on the long term prospects for the gold FS series is that the majority of the coins will trade close to gold spot with the rarer ones commanding a premium depending on collector demand. This seems to be how the pre-33 gold coins trade right now. As with all of the current mint gold offerings, you have to pay a premium to play (buy) and whether you get that premium back when you sell is a risk. I guess the same is true for silver and clad products also.

    One low risk bet I have made is to buy boxes of the presidential dollars. I pay a 10 cent premium per coin which is the most I can lose versus a potential gain of maybe 50 cents per coin.

  304. one fine dime says

    Diana –
    Can we expect an update on today’s CCAC meeting on the 2019-2020 Native American $1 coin design themes? Thanks for the great content on this blog.

  305. Louis says

    For anyone who is willing or interested, please let me know your thoughts about the issue of milk spots on your silver coins, esp. bullion, and which mint’s coins have had the most in your direct experience. There seem to be a wide range of views depending on how often a particular buyer/collector encounters this issue. Also, have you seen them on your silver proofs? And for both types of coins, have you seen the spots worsen over time, and seen them develop on coins that were originally fine? Has it helped to store them carefully? If you have a big issue with spots, do you live in an area with a humid climate? No need to answer everything, but whatever you can share would be useful and appreciated. This is part of my research for an article to appear soon on the news site of our host.

  306. SM from MN says

    Regarding the 2016 National Park Unc gold at 5180. I returned 10 last week that are not included in this total. They were from a box of 25 ordered on the last day. They all had the same flaw on each side of the coin scratch on the E ” In God We Trust” and a nick on the 5 $5. Hard to says whether they’ll update next week , last years commemoratives dropped off the page when the new ones reported. Guess we’ll see soon enough.

  307. Louis says

    As for the commems, I think Lions will do okay as the reverse is nice.
    Also, there are certain people who collect one of each comm, which puts a floor on sales.

    I really don’t think anyone at least if they are thinking clearly buys commems as an investment apart from certain select gold issues that may have low mintages. It is certainly not a very sound investment approach.

    As for enhanced/laser frosting, I don’t know why they did not highlight this, or even mention in the PR, but the Liberty HR coin has three levels of frosting on both sides. It is what I call an enhanced proof. The 5-star general $5 piece had some frosting, but this is the first with multiple levels on a gold proof coin, and first HR gold.

  308. says

    Slim pickin’s at the mint this month and I’ve got a pocket full of green paper, oh well, guess I’ll load up on the 2017 bullion. Guess I could use the apmex link at the top and throw MNB some crumbs when I blow my wad.

  309. Hidalgo says

    One Fine Dime… The 2016 NPS uncirculated gold coin, as you posted, has sold 5,180 pieces. Do you think the numbers will go below the sales number for the 1997 Jackie Robinson uncirculated gold coin (5,174 coins sold)?

  310. achmed says

    one of the big coin dealers should melt 7 of the nps unc in presence of a lawyer. And then there is a new population low.
    Question; is it really so important to have a new low? Or is it ok to have a coin that some other people like, too.

  311. samuel says

    i believe some returns are still on the way, the mint did not have a chance to process them. they are not that efficient.

  312. says

    Thanks Larry, nice find!

    What do think?

    It appeared to my tired 20/20 that there’s two levels of laser frosting on the Obverse, & looks a uniform, singular frosting on the Reverse.

    Geez, BO pardoned Chelsea Manning, he should have been hung.
    BO is going out true to his form

  313. says

    SM from MN –

    Thanks for the detailed post, the blog needs a lot more of those.

    And hey, it was even about coins, so double gold stars to you!

    Lou says, “but the Liberty HR coin has three levels of frosting on both sides”

    Well, the mint certainly knows how to sucker in its base. That’s one awesome Eagle on the Reverse, and if the white and black eagle feathers are differentiated through laser frosting, that look amazing.

  314. Louis says

    The low-down on frosting will be added to my MCM article on the gold coin, but for now and for reasons I can’t explain, only a Coin World article that is accessible for subscribers in the issue posted last Sat. has the actual details at the end of the article. Go figure that one. I would have led with that if I were running the Mint.

    At the risk of overdoing things, I am interested in what folks think of Charles Morgan (the editor of CoinWeek)’s view that “most collectors like” the 2017 Liberty coin, which he based on the 1K likes on CW’s Facebook page.

    I suggested we need more data before we can say that, even if I personally wish it to be the case. You can see what he sees on his site and my response.

  315. cagcrisp says

    Coinweek has a FB page that Features Charles Morgan’s article. I haven’t gone through the exact percentages but my Guesstimate is that 60-65% of the comments are Negative.

    I know that those on FB are generally not in the demographic sweet spot for a $1,600 coin , but I would have Expected that demographic to be More supportive than current posters would indicate…

  316. So Krates says

    @ Cagcrisp – If the Mint’s hedge was set up properly the loss on the forward position should have been offset by gains on the physical side.

  317. Dustyroads says

    Louis, My local TV station did a segment on the Liberty release. The abundant FB comments were no different from what I have seen everywhere else. It would appear that many people are having secret love affairs with their gold coins, then hitting the roof after waking to see who they’re married to. Personally, the `17 HR is beginning to grow on me. I do think it’s a beautiful coin. Looking closely at it, I don’t see any enhancement on the obverse, however, the eagle feathers do seem to be reflecting light in and interesting way.

  318. Erik H says

    Louis, for your article:

    My worst experience with milk spots are Canadian bullion issues (maples, wildlife series). I started purchasing these in 2011 so I can’t give an opinion before that. I’ve also had bad milk spots form on my African Elephant rounds (also purchased since 2011). Last I just bought some Burnished 2016 W ASEs that had milks spots directly from the mint.

    I’ve had milk spots form on generic ASE but not to the degree of the Canadian bullion or Elephants. I have had milk spots form on my Queen’s Beast too.

    Most of the coins formed the spots over time however some arrived with the spots (I always purchase as soon as the coins are released in an effort to cherry pick the spotless ones).

    For a list of my silver that has never spotted: Australian bullion (kangaroo, wedge tail, kooks & koala), Libertads, Philharmonics and Pandas.

    I will no longer buy Canadian bullion rounds for collecting only stacking. I have RCM 10 oz bars and they never developed spots. Both the rounds & bars are .9999 so the spots have to be formed by the washing detergents used on the rounds that many have speculated about.

    Hope this helps, looking forward to reading your article.

  319. cagcrisp says

    @So Krates , That would be what I would have assumed also. IF that was the case I don’t understand the need for a footnote on the financials.

    Unless there is something that has to be noted because it is a derivative…

  320. Louis says

    Thanks a lot, Erik H. That is very much in line with my experience too. I am really puzzled by comments on another forum from Australians who say their Perth coins have been problematic, which makes me wonder if they send their good stuff overseas, or if the climate is especially humid down under, or something else. That is very helpful.

    Shameless plug of the day: If you live near a bookstore such as Barnes and Noble, you can pick up the Feb. issue of COINage magazine, which has my cover piece on how gold in 2016 and beyond. Just sayin’

  321. Barry says

    @Louis, I’ve have had a handful of RCM bullion Maples and Wildlife series silver coins develop milk spots over time before stabilizing at some point in addition to a few Britannia’s.
    Ditto Erik’s no spot list and add the mints in Israel (proof) and Poland (proof) . Earlier this year I saw a dealer at a show with a lot OGP US 1980’s and newer silver commems and many had spotting issues. I didn’t feel comfortable asking about why so I just passed on them.
    I hoped that helped a little.

  322. Erik H says

    Barry, were the commems. that you saw spotted or did the develope a natural milky haze. The haze that develops on US 90% proofs is perfectly natural (although unsightly) and could be easily removed by “dipping” the coin (purist frown on this). Milk spots can’t be removed by “dipping”. It’s like the detergent is embedded into the silver when the coins are pressed.

    Overtime the milky haze on 90% silver should turn into wonderful “original” natural toning that seasoned collectors like. I do have to admit I hate seeing my deep cameos start to fade away but in 100 years when I’m long gone I know my “original” toned coin should bring a premium to the seller.

    Louis, interesting to hear that Aussies complain about their bullion developing spots, I hope mine never do. I also don’t recall ever seeing any spotted Australian bullion on eBay.

  323. one fine dime says

    @Hidalgo –

    Based on what SM from MN said, YES. That sounds like quite the quality control issue with scratches/nicks in the same spots obv/rev on ten coins in one shipment. I had to check my coin and fortunately it looks great (clearly an MS70 😉).

    Not going to buy a boys town unc $5 but hope many many others do 😉. I think the $1 looks great…big old oak tree reminiscent of the 1935 CT classic commem (as mentioned before).

    Hoping Obama pardons Peltier tomorrow or Thursday…

  324. cagcrisp says

    Gold AM Fix $1,212.50

    Unless we get a Major tweet attack (Reversing yesterday’s USD position) between now and the PM Fix , we WILL have a Gold increase this afternoon…

  325. cagcrisp says

    For those not keeping up with the daily play by play, there are Some positions the president elect has that can Only be successful with a Stronger dollar (boarder tax) and then there is Much of his agenda that would be favorable Only with a weaker dollar (additional exports due to increased US manufacturing).

    Yesterday the president elect said the USD was too Strong and that the Republican boarder tax plan was too complicated. Thus the USD retreated.

    The boarder tax ( and stronger dollar) are a cornerstone to corporate tax reform so I don’t see how you can be successful with one without the other Unless you blow the deficit Up…

  326. Barry says

    @Erik- after thinking about what you said it was haze instead of milk spots on those US commems.

  327. earthling says

    How utterly shocking! Plastic losing value? Say it ain’t so David.

    Could it be that buyers are just not there? And how about a price analysis of NGC Coins? Who will provide that?

    Just goes to show you, the best Coin Dealer is you local Bank. Buy Nickels at 5 Cents, cherry pick the ms65’s and return the rest for a full refund.

  328. says

    earthling You nailed it, who has the money after 8 years of gutting the middle class (just look at retail sales). Better keep those nickels though instead of returning them, they’ll probably pull the plug now that Trump is in charge.

  329. says

    Another factor in the increase of pcgs populations could be Greatcollections.com ( I notice most their coins are pcgs), auctions sites that you send your coins to be graded and sold with no hassle like feebay might be the wave of the future. Especially for collectors like me who have been collecting for all these years and realize we can get more green paper if we sell our coins graded. If that’s the case then I’d better jump on the bandwagon and get with it cause ya snooze, ya lose.

  330. Dustyroads says

    It was a no brainer that the 1995 proof ASE’s come out of the woodwork after those high auction prices were realized.

  331. Numismatrix says

    “1995 proof ASE’s come out of the woodwork” – DR

    Sad truth for us OGP collectors – I fear all those sets
    will be broken up just to monetize the W-ASE. I also
    feel that NGC is no different from PCGS – they all
    play on consumer gullibility that it is all in the label and
    not the coin.

  332. So Krates says

    Each time a coin is cracked out and resubmitted, the population number increases by one but the actual number of holdered coins remains the same.

    “NGC is committed to doing the right thing for the hobby…..at the end of the day, this is not about competition or profits for us, but protecting our fellow collectors.”

    This is same the douche who started with that “First Coin Sold” crap. Good lookin’ out Mark!

  333. So Krates says

    Agreed Numismatrix!

    However you can easily reassemble the ’95 coin set by purchasing the individual parts.

  334. KEITHSTER says

    If anyone wants the last Ferry 5OZer there is 1 left ? Look like they are going to take a bite out of My loins today but hay they will be around all year ! Good Luck To All”>”>

  335. So Krates says

    There are actually two different OGP configurations for the 1995-W five coin set.

    There is the more common album style (similar to the four coin AGE sets but with the ASE at the bottom), but occasionally one sees a more plain box style with the coins situated in the shape of an “X”.

    I was barely collecting then. I know that the 10th Ann. Set flew under the radar for the most part. Anyone remember the story behind the packaging switch? Perhaps early orders got the basic OGP and later received the nicer album type. I think some people got both?


  336. Tom says

    The Mint had the coins but not the presentation case, so they shipped the coins in the presentation case shown in your link. A note was included indicating they did not have the case at the time and that it would be mailed at a later date.

  337. Louis Golino, Author says

    Don’t tell Ryan, but there is now a 5 oz HR silver version of the Statue of Liberty medal.

  338. gatortreke says

    @ one fine dime:

    You asked the following question yesterday:


    If you have any real information about this supposed “biggest undeveloped gold mine in the world. It’s right here in America“…feel free to pass it along.

    That article contains no actual info, and that company has been accused of fraud….Stansberry Research sounds like a real shill.

    I don’t and never have subscribed to Stansberry but I’m guessing the company they are talking about is Northern Dynasty (NAK). They supposedly own one of the biggest gold properties in Alaska.

  339. dave says

    on that 5 oz HR silver version of the Statue of Liberty medal first of all the price is way toooo high and that’s not even the worst part! the worst part the mintage is higher than the 1 oz coin!! that in my opinion is a bad mistake

  340. Larry says

    So the Lions Club commemorative went on sale with no fanfare here. The mintage limit is 400,000. Gotta love the mints optimism! I predict the mint will sell about 75K. What do you think?

  341. asherspapa says

    Is anyone else annoyed that the “Product Schedule” has changed to a monthly update, making it essentially redundant with Upcoming Products box on the home page. I chatted with a Mint employee online, and it seems this a deliberate and permanent choice by someone. So there’s now no way to plan ahead more than a couple of weeks. And they lose the opportunity to build anticipation about products–just another example of what an atrocious marketing organization the Mint is, and how little they care about what they’re customers care about. And here it is, more than halfway through January and that’s all there is.

  342. TomP. in Va. says

    Just received a brochure from the Mint about the Lions Club silver dollar. As a previous poster has has stated, the reverse with the lions is quite impressive. I might buy one.

    Cagcrisp, Is Janet Yellen altering your gold forecasts?

  343. Tinto says


    Thanks for that info …. bad coin designs for the most part, bad service, misleading info, etc. would the Mint survive if they weren’t a govt entity and a monopoly …. at least they are good at quashing any temptation I might have at resuming regular purchases of their stuff ..

  344. dave says

    i feel the lions coin will sell way less 75 K horrible design looks like the old man from pawn stars theres just nothing there


    totally agree its unbelievable I had to laugh for a second its just to funny that’s its sad

  345. says

    thanks gatortreke.

    I just googled that company and found a Motley Fool article from yesterday that states,
    Arguably the most dangerous move you can make as a gold stock investor with the precious metal so far from its 2011 highs is to invest in a developmental-stage gold mining company like Seabridge Gold (NYSE:SA) or Northern Dynasty Minerals (NYSEMKT:NAK).

  346. gatortreke says

    @ one fine dime:

    Re: Northern Dynasty, I don’t own it nor do I buy junior minors, they are too volatile for me. That said, since I’m interested in gold and silver, I listened to a discussion about 6-9 months ago where the participants discussed Northern Dynasty. The talk with this company was how the EPA refused to review their data, not reviewed and rejected but refused to review, that was the problem and this wasn’t likely to change anytime in the foreseeable future.

    Some big gun junior minor investors (think Doug Casey, Rick Rule) liked NAK’s assets but didn’t believe the EPA would ever let them move forward considering they wouldn’t review their materials, said it would be dead money. I remember looking at the stock at that time and it was somewhere around $0.40-0.50 cents a share. Today it closed at $2.53–guess people believe the EPA may now act. Like I said, I’m not well suited to invest in these type of companies but I did put this on a watch list just to follow it to see what happens.

    Re: the Motley Fool article, I like the MF as a business and much of their outlook but they are not gold investors, more in the camp that it is a barbarous relic so just keep that in mind when you read their materials. They’d rather have investors put their money elsewhere.

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