Uncirculated Lucy Hayes Gold Coin Sold Out

According to the US Mint’s website, the uncirculated version of the 2011-W Lucy Hayes First Spouse Gold Coin has sold out. Based on the most recent available sales figures, this coin should set a new mintage low for the series by a wide margin.

The Lucy Hayes coins originally went on sale at the US Mint on September 1, 2011. The maximum mintage established across both the proof and uncirculated versions of the coin was 15,000. As we have seen in the past, the US Mint apparently produced significantly fewer coins, likely based on customer ordering trends.

As of the latest sales report, the uncirculated version of the coin has sold 2,152 coins. The proof version which remains available for sale has sold 2,931 coins. (Updated numbers should be available tomorrow.)

The now sold out uncirculated version at 2,152 comes in well below the previous mintage lows for the series. Within the third year of release, the Julia Tyler uncirculated coin set a fresh low for the series. The last reported sales were 2,861, although final figures reported elsewhere have put the number at 3,143. Recently, the Eliza Johnson uncirculated coin sold out with last reported sales of 2,905.

Throughout the First Spouse series, we have seen low mintages keep getting lower. Will this new extreme low finally generate some excitement and put in a bottom?

In the near term, the uncirculated Lucretia Garfield Gold Coin should be watched to see if the US Mint used the same production level, which would create the potential for a similarly low mintage. Another factor to watch for is how the Mint handles the offering for the 2012 First Spouse Gold Coins. There has still been no indication of release dates or offering details for the coins. In the past I have suggested that this might mean some change in ordering format is in the works, which could have an impact on sales.

Some have suggested that the series might be canceled outright, however I do not think this is a possibility. The series is required under current law, so unless the US Mint takes a very creative interpretation of the requirement, the series will continue.

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Comments

  1. Brad says

    This was a pleasant surprise. I wondered if the Mint had made 2,900 of each of the 2011 uncirculateds, but I guess not. That’s good, because under their new policy of leaving prior year coins for sale alongside current year coins, it would have taken until sometime in 2014 to sell that many of the uncs for the last two!

    I had the same thought regarding Lucretia Garfield’s unc coin, too. I’ll be watching it closely. I hope the orders I made for a couple more Lucy Hayes uncirculated coins get filled!

  2. DCDave says

    All of these coins will trend (plus a descent premium) toward melt, SO if gold trends to $2000 we will have winners, but if it sinks closer to $1200 I really don’t see people paying premiums for super-low mintage ugly coins for not famous people. I think the Julia Tyler and the liberty subset will hold value for their good looks.

  3. Frank says

    Is reducing the 1/2 Oz to 1/10 Oz an option? If that happens, I will start collecting the 1/10 Oz series.

  4. joe says

    The Lucy I ordered when she was released in September 2011 is currently at NGC being graded. If she passes muster, then I might have to take the wife out for a nice meal to celebrate.

    As for it being the lowest mintage FS coin, that record may not last if additional FS coins are ever released. The way this year is going, the release of four FS coins between now and the end of the year will certainly tax my resources (and I’m sure many others). I would certainly expect UNC FS coins to drop below 2000 units before it’s over with. JMO.

  5. Mint News Blog says

    “Is reducing the 1/2 Oz to 1/10 Oz an option?”

    This would not be an option unless there is a change in law. The current specifications are part of the current legal requirements.

  6. Mint News Blog says

    The 2011 First Spouse Coins still available from the mint are:

    Unc Julia Grant

    Proof Lucy Hayes

    Unc & Proof Lucretia Garfield

  7. ClevelandRocks says

    Seems completely random and misleading for The Mint to say “sold out” for the UNC Lucy Hayes or any other FS with only a fraction of mintage allowed actually sold. They should say “MKFS”, “Mercy Killed from Sales”.

    2011 ATBs need a “MKFS” too!

  8. Brad says

    Hee hee, a “mercy killing.” 🙂

    One thing to consider for the 2012’s is the possibility that the Mint may strike the entire maximum mintage for each design prior to December 31. After all, no where in the law did it say that the coins could only be sold for “approximately one year.” That was the Mint’s own internal policy. Since the new policy seems to be leaving prior year coins for sale alongside current year coins until all that were struck are sold, what’s to stop them from doing the same thing with the First Spouses? Even if it takes until sometime in 2015 or 2016 to sell the entire maximum of 2012’s, it could still be done eventually. And, if gold spot continues to rise, so does the Mint’s profit margin for sales of 2012 coins that were made when gold was cheaper. As long as they don’t mind keeping them in the online catalog for years, why not?

    With that possiblity in mind, either the Lucy Hayes or Lucretia Garfield unc might set the mintage floor for a complete set.

  9. Dan says

    stick a fork in it this series is gone. they will tag it on a piece of legislation in December and make it legal.

  10. Hidalgo says

    The fact that the Lucy Hayes FS Unc gold coin sold out before its introduction a year ago gives me the impression that the US Mint likely produced a set amount (say 2,200) of uncirculated gold coins. When all coins were sold, the US Mint posted a “sold out” notice on its website.

    We saw a similar pattern of declining mintages in previous years. I wonder if the still – to – be introduced 2012 FS gold coins will be “minted to order” — like the San Francisco ASE sets. This would make sense to me, since the US Mint would not have to deal with unsold surplus coins…..

  11. SmallPotatos says

    Hildalgo,
    you may be on to something. Does the legislation prohibit how the coins are to be sold? maybe that is why they have held off on the 2012’s…

  12. VABEACHBUM says

    Cleveland – That was AWESOME!! MKFS Love the acronym. However, if it is going to be applied to anything, please let it be that damn 2011 Buffalo. Those hides have been tanned and sold to the tourists! enjoying the bison burgers!!

  13. Edgar says

    I share concerns about the financial strain on loyal collectors that releasing all eight FS coins at once will impose. Not only are the coins relatively expensive, but I also have mine graded and shipped to and from NGC via insured registered mail, which adds to the cost.

    The $cariest prospect would be if the impending federal budget crisis drives up precious metal prices just around the time the 2012 FS coins are released for sale.

    Applying country math using today’s prices, I’m already looking at $7,599.80 (including $4.95 S&H for each set) just to buy one proof and one unc version each of Alice, Frances, Caroline and Frances II… .

  14. joe says

    >>stick a fork in it this series is gone. they will tag it on a piece of legislation in December and make it legal.<<

    Yeah…right…congress is going to write a law to eliminate a politically correct coin. That would be an anathema with the dorks in congress and the white house. Even if it makes sense and is the right thing to do.

    Below is the link for the gold FS coins:

    http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-109publ145/pdf/PLAW-109publ145.pdf

    Go to Sec. 103 for the law regarding this coin…

  15. joe says

    From the law:

    ISSUANCE OF COINS COMMEMORATING FIRST SPOUSES.—
    ‘‘(A) IN GENERAL.—The bullion coins issued under this subsection with respect to any spouse of a President shall be issued on the same schedule as the $1 coin issued under subsection (n) with respect to each such President.”

    Basically this means that they can stop production of the gold FS coins if they stop production of the $1 presidential dollars as described in the same law. In late 2011, the US Mint stated that they had $1.4B in stockpiled presidential dollar coins. On December 13, 2011, Vice President Joe Biden and Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner announced that the minting of Presidential $1 Coins for circulation would be suspended. Future entries in the program, beginning with that of Chester A. Arthur, would be issued in reduced quantities, only for collectors. Since the beginning of 2012, new Presidential coins are only being minted for collectors, in order to reduce the stockpile.

    In short, legislation was passed by congress and the president to change the law…the executive branch just unilaterally decided to change the law without doing it legally (not that what they did doesn’t make economical sense; however, there is a little something that tends to mitigate anarchy called the “rule of law”). Therefore since the law passed in 2005 is not being adhered to by the Mint for the $1 presidential coins, it seems that all bets are off and the Mint/white house will do whatever they want regarding gold FS coins. Make your bets…

  16. POP says

    I’ve been buying both the proofs & the uncs and I think the uncirculated coins look better than the proofs.

  17. Brad says

    The Lucy Hayes uncs are flying off the shelves on eBay now. Someone even paid $1,650 for a PCGS MS-69 First Strike.

  18. David O says

    $1650 for a PCGS MS69!? Someone needs their head examined!

    Oh, wait, that was me that paid that. o.O (NOT joking)

  19. KEITHSTER says

    Only been getting the unc’s started with the Mary Todd about two weeks before she sold out. At the time thought they looked more real as not many proofs made when these lady’s where walking the White House well that and the lower #’s.Seem’s maybe the Mint has caught on to makin each new one hotter than the last by making a few less each time. Thank you Lucky Lucy you’re the new low baller. Hoppin they made a few less of the 2012’s and don’t sell them till next year. And spread out so real collector’s got a shot at em how hot would them be. As for fugly they only are if you don’t have any other wise they just keep getting better looking every day. OT My second order of SF’s will be here in the AM. ordered 6/24 and they have yet to charge My debit card go figure that? ……Good Luck To All

  20. Louis says

    Joe,
    This issue was discussed late last year when the admin. announced the dollar coin program change. There is absolutely no requirement to stop production of FS coins. In any event, they have not stopped production. As you explained, they are only selling them at a profit. The bottom line is they can sell them as long as they want, as long as they are struck in 2012, so the plan is probably to sell most next year. There was nothing illegal about what the admin. did, and believe me if there were, some GOP member of congress would have called them on it.

    I really don’t know why people who don’t collect FS coins have this almost religious need to see the series ended. Get over it. Just buy what you want and leave everyone else alone! What skin is it off your nose if people want to buy these things for whatever reason? I happen to think the series was a good idea but it was not realistic to make them 1/2 ounce coins. But at this point one way or another I think we will see an end to this series when all the coins have been issued.

  21. Louis says

    Here;s something to make you think: The Eliza Johnson coin obverse that so many people deride was designed by master engraver Joel Iskowitz, who also designed the much beloved Star-Spangled banner $1 coin and many others. So maybe it was just the subject, not the rendition of it

  22. VABEACHBUM says

    Louis – Agree Completely. As you and I have discussed in previous threads, the allegorical, artistic potentials of the Mint’s designers and engravers continue to be pigeon-holed by the literal machinations of our legislative bodies. I say turn them loose; see what they might accomplish. CFA and CCAC have said they want better, but those gifted artists can only do so much on the short leash the typical legislation gives them.

    Along a similar line, the Mint had demonstrated, through the 2009 UHR, that they necessarily do not need legislation to develop a product. We really need to be asking the US Mint representatives why are they not giving us more of that kind of initiative!!

  23. joe says

    Louis,

    I don’t think we disagree on most the points you made…

    My comments were not about selling the coins, but about minting them. The mint can sell FS coins into the 22nd century if they choose (according to the law), but I am not aware of any FS coins that have been actually minted in 2012 to date. The last coin that was offered for sale by the mint was Lucretia Garfield, and those were offered on December 1, 2011. By law, all LG FS coins had to be manufactured in 2011, so none of those were minted in 2012. No 2012 FS coins have been offered this year, so who’s to say they are still producing them? If someone has information that the mint is actually producing 2012 coins, it would be interesting to know.

    Honestly, I doubt anyone in congress cares that much about this series (repubs and dems alike), and I don’t see anyone calling anyone on anything related to this series. The reason the white house issues the order to the mint was because of the the embarrassing number of coins stockpiled in warehouses…that was all. Every administration (Carter, Clinton, and Bush, Jr.) keeps trying to shove $1 coins down our throats, but it just isn’t working. The last effort was the worst because the law required a unique coin for each president, and it was only economically logical to produce these coins in large amounts.

    In reading the law, I guess it is possible to twist it to interpret it anyway one chooses. At the top of Section 102 of the law, it clearly states:

    ‘‘(A) IN GENERAL.—Notwithstanding subsection (d) and in accordance with the provisions of this subsection, $1 coins issued during the period beginning January 1, 2007, and ending upon the termination of the program under
    paragraph (8),

    So follow my logic here…

    The title of Section 102 (which contains the laws regarding these dollars, which then dictate the laws for the gold FS), outlining the law regarding these coins states “Section Section 5112 of title 31, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following: ‘‘(n) REDESIGN AND ISSUANCE OF CIRCULATING $1 COINS HONORING EACH OF THE PRESIDENTS OF THE UNITED STATES.—

    The operative word is “circulating”. Everything described in the guidelines/law for this coin is referring to “circulating” coins. Yes…there is an afterthought (subset) buried at the bottom that states how the mint shall deal with numismatic coins:

    ‘‘(7) ISSUANCE OF NUMISMATIC COINS.—The Secretary may mint and issue such number of $1 coins of each design selected under this subsection in uncirculated and proof qualities as the Secretary determines to be appropriate.

    However, this law (as written) is about circulating presidential dollar coins (and by extension, the gold FS coins), and numismatic coins are a subset of this law as written. One can’t unilaterally chose parts of the law to obey and other parts not to obey on a whim (even if it makes economical sense). In this case, the current administration considers that they are adhering to the law because they are obeying one subset of the law (Issuance of Numismatic Coins). In reality (if there is actually such a thing in Washington, DC), a new law would have had to have been passed or the old law rescinded as an act of congress and the executive branch. That did not happen in this case.

    As for the FS coins themselves, I am a collector. What bothers me is the way they’ve administered this program and the fact that it is acceptable to break laws in Washington, even if the law was broken to our advantage. As for Joel Iskowitz, even Michael Jordan had his off days. Objectively speaking, Eliza is the ugliest coin I have ever seen in my life. Perhaps Mr. Iskowitz was just putting “lipstick on a pig” as they say.

    JMO.

  24. Wylson says

    “The Lucy Hayes uncs are flying off the shelves on eBay now. Someone even paid $1,650 for a PCGS MS-69 First Strike.”

    Dumb!

    You could get a LG unc, which probably has the same mintage straight from the mint still.

  25. DCDave says

    Think there may be a run on the LG UNC for all you flippers. Problem is that I would never buy a coin, no matter how rare, that I didn’t like the way it looks. Never have, never will. Most FS are not eye appealing. I’m actually surprised you can pick up a Julia Tyler PF-70 for under $2000. I’d buy one at this price if I didn’t have one already (though ungraded in OGP).

  26. DCDave says

    It’s the REVERSE of the FS where Iskowitz is a star.
    He can’t help how the dame looks on the obverse!

  27. joe says

    Maybe Iskowitz should have had a picture of the back of her head on the OBVERSE. It would have looked better. Just saying…

  28. Mr. Solo says

    Ugly or not, this coin has a shot at being the lowest minted coin of the last 100 years :o! Granted the Garfield will probably end with a low mintage as well, but rather than speculate about that fact I think folks would be wise to do what is necessary to track a Hayes coin down as long as it’s under twice melt. If you don’t have the funds to splurge a bit, than just buy the Garfield and cross your fingers 🙂

  29. Brad says

    Feriza,

    Holy smokes! I thought you were just kidding!

    Ok, now I placed an order for two more of those as well. I had just looked not 30 minutes ago and no backorder notice. But, I was going to place the order anyway before the price increases tomorrow. Unless the Wednesday pm fix bails us out again, the gold coins will most likely be going up tomorrow.

  30. Brad says

    For some reason, all of the orders are going into “suspended” status, for me anyway. I ordered two coins, but the orders didn’t show up in my history. So, I got scared and placed two more orders just in case. They don’t show up, either.

    I clicked on the “my account” tab, where your most recent order is displayed. It shows the status as “suspended.”

    I wonder if the Lucretia Garfield unc coins are gone already. Man, I wish I had ordered earlier this morning! I almost did, with the impending price increase coming down the pike. I sure hope I get these!

  31. Louis says

    Joe, Thanks for the detailed clarification.

    This FS sell-out madness is kind of fun, isn’t it, if you already have the coin before it sells out? Maybe the Mint’s plan is to let all the existing coins they have already made sell out before offering any new ones. And these sell-outs seem to be spurring more interest in the series (at least on this blog).

  32. Mr. Solo says

    That didn’t take long… The only MS Garfield coins that I can find are $1495 and up. Anyone know of a place to buy online for less than $1500?

  33. joe says

    Louis,

    I think to date, the gold FS coin is the most mysterious of all series’ released in the modern era. There is no predictability to any coin within this series. Frankly, I believe this unpredictability (combined with lower mintages) will lead to higher prices in the future. Yes…some of the coins are very ugly (Johnson), and only the true lovers and speculators of this series will purchase it while it is priced low. However, the least attractive coins in this series will provide the patient with a nice long term ROI.

    Mr. Solo,

    I just checked at the US Mint website and it has the gold FS Garfield Unc (MS) coin for sale at $941. That will be your best deal by far…

  34. Louis says

    Joe, Very well said. I agree 100% with that! I could be wrong but I think years from now people who collected this series will be very pleased. Quite frankly despite the demand problems, the fact is that apart from the 2007 coins, the others command rather strong premiums already at least retail. Plus gold has gone up a lot since most of the coins were released. And even if some coins are not so attractive, I think a series with different designs is more fun to collect than say American gold eagles or Buffaloes. The latter have awesome designs, but they mostly trade closer to bullion levels than the FS coins do (again except 2007 issues). And at least the FS will end in a few more years, but who knows when they will pull the plug on the other series, which makes it very hard to build a full set.

  35. Brad says

    The Lucretia Garfield unc may very well be declared “sold out” by the Mint before the close of business today. I hope it wasn’t already too late for the orders I placed, both for Lucy Hayes and Garfield.

  36. dan says

    Just a thought, I wonder if they cut back on the number of proofs also?? Will they be setting new lows on these also?

  37. Hidalgo says

    @ Brad – you may be jumping the gun. I wanted to see if a Lucretia Garfield order would process. And yes, the order did process. The status? “Backordered.: Also, the main page for the LG FS coin states that shipment would take place on August 22nd.

    So if you ordered 4 of FS gold coins, I sure hope that you have the money to pay for them! I certainly do not have $3,000+ to spend on coins that I think (repeat think) will sell out soon….. LOL

  38. DCDave says

    Can lightning strike twice? Wonder if tomorrow’s London PM fix (10am EST) may dive below $1600 for a few minutes to keep pricing unchanged?

    Quick, order the ’11 Buffalo before it sells out! (whoops, that was from a 8/7/11 thought).

  39. ClevelandRocks says

    @Hidalgo and Brad (and Michael!), how is a product that legally cannot be produced in 2012 be “backordered”?

  40. Brad says

    Hidalgo,

    I actually have 6 unc FS coins on order now from the past few days. All 4 of the Lucretia Garfield orders from today show up now as “on hold”, while the 2 Lucy Hayes orders from late last week are “in process.” I figure I’ll let them all ride for now, just in case Lucretia really DOES sellout at around 2,000-2,100 coins. They can be cancelled at any time while the status is “backordered”, but I’ll probably let them go through. The money’s no problem, I can pay in full when the credit card bill arrives! 🙂

    And Cleveland, regarding how they can be “backordered” in 2012, that’s just the Mint’s way of letting you know supplies are getting low and they’re scraping the bottom of the barrel to dig up the last few remaining coins. They’re probably having any left at the Mint kiosks sent to Indiana to be shipped out for online orders. You can rest assured that none are being struck now.

  41. ClevelandRocks says

    Or maybe waiting a week from date of last sold from stock to see if there will be a return…

  42. Edgar says

    “Silvertowne has ngc ms70 Lucretia Garfields in stock for $1199 + shipping”

    Unfortunately, Silvertowne is now sold out of LG ms70 @ $1199. But lccoins.com has one Lucy Hayes PCGS MS70 left @ $1,650.00. I think I’ll dig deep at grab it.

  43. DCDave says

    Guys. the FS spouses are being hyper-focused on now. These will never be popular and would not break the bank to buy now.

  44. Goat says

    I’ve been Hayes . I got mine many times. Drag your feet and time will pass you by! THE big question ????? The 2012 FS ????? This year is 3/4 over, is the mint going to dump the schedule in four mo…? LET’S PLAY BALL! PUT ME IN COACH I’M READY TO PLAY!!!! Michael Thanks.

  45. Louis says

    Goat,
    As long as they are already minted, which they may be, they can sell them as long as they want. Remember how the 2010 ATB’s were sold in 2011? I think we may see that with the FS 2012. I don’t know maybe the Mint is banking on higher gold prices after the election, or it understands there are too many products competing for collector dollars right now, so they are waiting a while.

  46. ClevelandRocks says

    If you want any FS buy them now. They may go out of stock soon and price increase likely today, although gold is falling close to $1600 again.

  47. Mr. Solo says

    DCDave please explain how you can say with certainty that the spouse coins will never be in demand. Simply put, no one knows what the future holds and even though most of us hate the louse, err I mean spouse coins now that’s not to say that the next generation won’t be interested. While it does seem doubtful that collectors in 30 years will look to acquire an expensive and ugly spouse set, you simply just never know. With mintage numbers approaching 2000, it simply won’t take that many folks building a set before there is pressure on the keys. As such, I see any sub-3000 unc and sub-4500 proof as a long term gold play with possible numi-upside as long as you buy at mint based pricing. Folks paying 20 to 50% extra the first week a spouse coin comes out just so they have a MS70 First Strike may not realize the same returns over the long haul. …Long story short, if you stack silver or gold IMO it is a good idea to stack with spouse coins that are bought for as close to melt as possible 🙂

  48. Mr. Cole says

    DCDave please list the coins that I should be buying so I can stock up on them and make lots of money. By the way could you locate an UNC Lucretia Garfield for sale and post the link here, I can’t seem to find one anywhere and the mint may be sold out of them. Thanks!

  49. DCDave says

    If I was a flipper, I’d consider buying the all remaining FS coins avaiable and then immediately flipping them when they are sold out and praying I would not have any left to look at. Long term will be determined by spot gold prices.

  50. Richie says

    This blog is the best…by discerning between the logical and illogical bloggers I was able to pick up the Lucy Hayes MS70 from silvertowne 3 weeks ago @ $1100 and the Lucretia Garfield (LG) (unc) from the mint two days ago – before the $$ increase @ $941. LG (unc) is officially sold out at the mint!!!

  51. DCDave says

    Mr. Cole, the most undervalued rarity that you can buy (for about twice spot gold now and a great looking coin) is the 2006 reverse proof gold eagle in PF70. Mintage less than 10K. And as I posted above re: FS.

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