US Mint Circulating Coin Production August 2014

sand-dunesUpdated circulating coin production figures have been provided by the United States Mint. Monthly production fell to the lowest level of the year, however it did remain above the level of the year ago period.

During the month of August 2014, total production reached 913.38 million pieces across the Philadelphia and Denver Mint facilities. This compares to production in the prior month of more than 1.3 billion coins and production in the year ago period of August 2013 of 724.91 million coins.

The production for August 2014 represents the lowest monthly level of the year and only the second time that monthly production has fallen below the one billion level for this year.

A breakdown of circulating coin production by mint facility and denomination appears below. The first number column represents the monthly production amount, while the second number column represents the cumulative production for the year to date.

2014 US Mint Coin Production Figures
August 2014 YTD 2014
Lincoln Cent – Denver 360.40 M 2,942.40 M
Lincoln Cent – Phil. 193.20 M 2,638.40 M
Jefferson Nickel – Denver 59.52 M 434.88 M
Jefferson Nickel – Phil. 26.16 M 424.32 M
Roosevelt Dime – Denver 110.50 M 804.00 M
Roosevelt Dime – Phil. 39.00 M 700.50 M
Quarters – Denver 81.40 M 720.40 M
Quarters – Phil. 43.20 M 559.80 M
Kennedy Half – Denver 0 2.10 M
Kennedy Half – Phil. 0 2.50 M
Native Am Dollar – Denver 0 5.60 M
Native Am Dollar – Phil. 0 3.08 M
Pres Dollar – Denver 0 15.26 M
Pres Dollar – Phil. 0 19.88 M
Total 913.38 M 9,273.12 M

As is typically the case, the cent accounted for more than half of overall monthly production with 553.6 million pieces struck across both facilities. The next most produced denomination was the dime at a combined 149.5 million pieces. Completing the line up was the quarter at 124.6 million pieces and the nickel at 85.68 million.

During the month, the US Mint did not strike circulating quality half dollars or $1 coins.

For the year to date, overall circulating coin production has now reached 9.27 billion pieces. This remains ahead of the pace of production from the previous year. For the comparable year ago period production had reached 8.31 billion pieces. For the full year of 2013, production had reached 11.91 billion pieces.

The United States Mint has provided an update to the coin production figures by design for the America the Beautiful Quarters Program, adding the Great Sand Dunes National Park Quarters. There are no changes to the previously provided figures for the Presidential $1 Coin Program. As mentioned in the past, these figures should be considered preliminary until the close of the year since the Mint reserves the right to restart production if warranted by demand.

2014 US Mint Coin Production by Design
Denver Phil. Total
Great Smoky Mountains 99.40 M 73.20 M 172.60 M
Shenandoah 197.80 M 112.80 M 310.60 M
Arches 251.40 M 214.20 M 465.60 M
Great Sand Dunes 171.80 M 159.60 M 331.40 M
Warren G. Harding 3.78 M 6.16 M 9.94 M
Calvin Coolidge 3.78 M 4.48 M 8.26 M
Herbert Hoover 3.78 M 4.48 M 8.26 M
Franklin D. Roosevelt 3.92 M 4.76 M 8.68 M

The preliminary production figures for the Great Sand Dunes Quarters reached 171.8 million pieces at the Philadelphia Mint and 159.6 million pieces at the Denver Mint. This made for overall production of 331.4 million, falling below the total for the prior design.

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Comments

  1. GoldFishin says

    Could all of you Dave’s please use a last initial or something?…it is too confusing for me to keep up with. I was thinking there for a while that Dave was tripolar or had a drinking problem, etc. Only the original Dave should be able to keep his Dave, whichever one that is. Thank you for your support! 😉

  2. Pittsburgh P says

    I’m with you GF… Would the real dave please stand up? 🙂

    Jeff these are the posts I’m used too from you… Very confrontational, loud, spewing numbers that make zero sence… My opinion only.
    I think there is only one jeff using this handle but please correct me if there are more than one.

  3. Hidalgo says

    I cancelled my order for a gold Kennedy half dollar during the first week it was on sale. And I am glad that I did. I believe the secondary market price of the coin will be around the US Mint’s sales price — at least in the short run. In the long run, like with many other gold coins, secondary market prices will fluctuate with the market price of gold. Some of the more common First Spouse gold coins I have in my collection have already fallen in value.

    Gold prices are on a downward trend and there’s a real possibility that the US Mint will lower its prices again. Lower prices will mean greater opportunities to add a particular gold coin to one’s collection at a more reasonable price.

  4. cagcrisp says

    YOU just have to Love this guy for re-writing history.

    @jeff, You are the one that said there would be 20% less Gold BHOF coins Sold and 10% less Silver BHOF coins Sold. So far the excel spreadsheet and the Hard Copy are not the same. The excel spreadsheet still shows both Golds and Silvers Oversold. Until the spreadsheet and the Hard Copy are the same, sales numbers can still be adjusted. Using the Hard Copy numbers you are Only 99.2% WRONG on YOUR guess for the Golds and 97.3% WRONG on YOUR guess on the Silvers…

    Love it…Love it …Love it…

  5. cagcrisp says

    @ Pittsburg P and VA Rich, I’ve got a friend wanting to Buy 6 sets of Silver Kennedy’s . I’m not for them but I know you two are. Give me Your reasons for Buying 6 sets of Silver Kennedy’s to be given to grandchildren.

    Sell me on the Silvers…

  6. Hidalgo says

    I believe that the “mint to demand” silver Kennedy set will be a short-term benefit to coin dealers and flippers who seek and plan to sell MS/SP 70 graded coins. Such coins always command higher secondary market prices than coins in original packaging and MS/SP 69 graded coins.

    Long term – if these coins follow the pattern of other special “mint to demand” coins (e.g., the 2012 San Francisco ASE set, the 2013 West Point ASE set, the 2013 reverse proof gold buffalo coin, etc.), then prices for the silver Kennedy half set should be around $99 or so. Why would anyone pay a higher price when s/he can buy the set at the US Mint’s “retail” price? I certainly would not.

  7. Pittsburgh P says

    Cag TOOO FUNNY!!! I love it… I guess he felt since he was .08% & 2.7% right he’d rub it in 🙂

    Here us why I like the silver JFK set… IDK if it’ll convice you otherwise but here goes Cag
    1)The 4 different strikes will be stunning.
    2)Only the 2nd enhanced unc ever & first on a half dollar. First reverse proof on a half also I believe.
    3) Price is affordable – at least in comparison to the gold JFK.
    4) It’s an iconic design & an anniversary release.

    There are more reasons but I don’t wanna go on & on… Maybe VaRich will tag in.
    I think these will make a great gift for the grandkiddies or anyone too.
    As for value in the future I do think these will do better than the releases Hildago mentioned but only time will tell.

  8. Eagle One says

    Mint-to-Demand, the high cost of TPG grading, and eBay’s 13% takes the impetus out of it all. I keep waiting for the Mint to suspend sales of the K14 and K15 to make it all right. The way the Mint released the 2011 25th Anniversary Silver Eagle Set was the way to go. Now that the Mint has improved their website’s ordering bandwidth; maybe they will go back to limited mintages on special products. If the Mint limited the K15 to 50,000 sets, it would have been a complete success, and everyone would of been happy. Additionally, collectors would be more willing to pony up for the next special release. It is all about adding value to the economy; not taking value away. When all of the value is taken away from the hobby, everything will be worth melt, and the plastic will be worth nothing.

  9. jeff says

    Cagcrisp you got me I’m off on my percentages however 100% right they will not mint the advertised mintage. You on the other hand are 100% incorrect that the mintage would be fulfilled in total waiting on the hard copy, soft copy, the I wish copy, the I hope copy, the full year copy and any other copy you can come up with. And I will stick with the dud opinion. All I hear is it’s a collector coin well there only 64,000 collectors so far. What make you think there is any appreciation its gold, its Kennedy, it’s 3/4 ounce, it’s a fiasco that dealers and collectors have created it will be remembered it’s turned may collectors off and the message is loud and clear DUD. Why would anyone think that when concluded everyone will then want one makes no sense.

  10. VA Bob says

    Eagle One – Your last comment assumes the Mint has the buyers bottom line taken into account. They don’t. Just their own, They know they will sell more than 50K of these sets. They don’t worry what the sets will do on the secondary market, nor should they. It’s not their concern to make anyone a profit. If all the dealers, speculators, and flippers had not bought multiples of the 100K 2011 anniversary sets, more people that actually wanted one for themselves would have got one. The method they chose to sell the 2011 set only made the TPG’s and the secondary market sellers more money, not the person holding the set(s), they either will or will not see a profit if or when they ever liquidate their set in the future, long after the hype is gone. Sure it’s fun to look at sales on eBay and believe that’s what our collections are worth, but it’s not very realistic.

  11. VA Bob says

    Jeff – the same exact thing was said of the RP Buffalo. It didn’t seem to slow down the secondary market. So I guess someone still wants these coins after a year and are willing to pay for them. To declare a coin “a dud” while it’s still being produced is a little premature don’t you think?

  12. jeff says

    We are talking about the current issue Philly P the DUD GOLD KENNEDY. I was just making my point did not know all here deal in exact predictions. I’m onboard with the silvers I said that months ago you must have long term memory problems .Someone mentioned a bet I’ll take the bet that the gold Bhof in OGP will out preform the gold Kennedy in OGP on a percentages bases coin for coin you win you get one of my gold Bhof you lose I get your worse gold Kennedy you have. You call the time frame 6,12,18,24 months .

  13. jeff says

    VA Bob I understand the 1 oz. Reverse Proof Buffalo is strong but your not talking apples to apples . One it’s only 3/4 oz. Two it’s proof three there was such a fiasco that turned many off so to think some time in the future everyone will want it is doubtful in my opinion again I’m of the short term collector I can’t wait decades. My comments are not to challenge those on this blog I to appreciate all the participant’s theories knowledge for mine is limited I just like taking the opposite at times. I look at the weekly mint sales numbers and it show a negative sales number for the Kennedy and for the bhof all sold out with less than advertise d mintages that’s the facts but manyhave there own ideas compilation of the real numbers sort of figment of imagination .

  14. VA Bob says

    If other $5 gold commems over the last ten years have sold 20-30K in all finishes, what makes you believe a coin that sold (over) 50K is going to be a winner? Seems to me that about half the Mint sales of this coin was to flip it to someone else. The flippers are they people hyping each other into believing their isn’t enough of this coin available, and they will be able to sell it to someone else for even more. This will eventually end when the music stops and there are no more chairs left. But, you will see the BHOF, in numbers, on eBay for a long time because they aren’t rare, and their are plenty out there without a real home. I bought an example in proof and unc. why would I want more of them? So I can feel eBay rich? No thanks.

  15. Eagle One says

    VA Bob – The Mint should give realistic concern to forecasting future special product demand and the continued public interest in its special products. In the case of the K15, mint-to-demand became mint-to-exceed-demand, and this resulted in product devaluation while the product was still available from the Mint. This should be obvious to everyone. For everyone, including the Mint, it is better to make less than more when producing special products. The disposition of unsold product, the prolonged months of selling, the re-pricing of product to compensate for weekly price changes in bullion values, customer returns, and the production of smaller batches cuts into the Mint’s bottom line. Economies of Scale do not apply to special products because so few are produced. This is due to Thousands vs. Billions or Weeks vs. Years. It would be more profitable to determine a specific mintage, produce and inspect that mintage in its entirety, and then sell that special product out in one day. The K15 should be a lesson to everyone. Hein sight is always 20-20 and learning through experimentation is part of the process of success. Mint-to-Demand is a non-thinking strategy when considering special lower mintage products. It lacks foresight. When it comes to special products; Mint-to-Demand hurts the hobby and the Mint.

  16. thePhelps says

    jeff… I think cag already answered your BHOF issue. I do believe they minted the total and shipped them. Where the numbers might end up is a guess, but so far it appears they are nearly on the money for totals. I think you are missing the final tally numbers after audit – which will include returns at the end of fulfillment. There were a good number of people here who returned coins – knowing that a replacement wouldn’t be coming. If the mint ends at 49,800+ gold and 398,500+ after it is said and done…I believe it is fair to say they probably did ship the max number of coins and got late returns which were then removed from the sales totals.

    You can have your opinion on what makes a successful sale. I believe that the Kennedy’s are doing fine with the lower numbers – and I believe collectors are quite happy seeing the lower numbers. Having flippers tripping all over themselves to buy and grade and sell coins – doesn’t make a coin sales a winner. The recent ASE release is a classic example of hype as well as availability – and in the end the set is struggling to hold mint value – even at high grades. Most collectors shouldn’t be fixated on the instant value increase caused by flippers – unless they are trying to fund the purchase through a flip themselves. I’m quite happy to see the Kennedy flop on the flip… and don’t think it reflects on the coin long term at all.

  17. VA Bob says

    Jeff – The JFK is 3/4 oz. that has no bearing onto it’s collectability. It’s not like they are charging the price of 1 oz. for it. In fact, since it is the first of its kind in this weight, it adds to its collectability, just as the curve added to the BHOF.

    If the coin is having it’s orders canceled, all that means is that it’s reaching its saturation point. The people worried about short term profit are folding. This is a good thing for the coins future. No artificial cut off has been set that flippers seem to love, because they sell the hype.

    The RP Buffalo had a rocky start too. It was at the ANA before people could get them who ordered on line. There was label and price gouging on those initially available coins. It wasn’t as bad as with the JFK, but all it means is that dealers stepped up their game in efforts to get more coins to sell at inflated prices.

    You have a right to how you feel about this coin, and can make your points, but I’m afraid coin history isn’t currently on your side in this instance. Why don’t we hold our opinions until next year, when we will see what demand looks like. You might be right, but shouting “I win” at half time seems a bit premature don’t you think?

  18. VA Bob says

    Eagle One – I’m just going to have to respectfully say we disagree on this. The Mint sells for a price, if someone wants to sell for less, how is that the Mint’s concern? If I buy a new car, will I get the same price I paid for it? Does the dealer care what I do with the car after I pay and drive it off the lot?

    As I responded to Jeff, coin history as far as mint to demand is not currently in your favor. All mint to demand coins are doing well on the secondary market (UHR, RP Buff) because everyone at the time that wanted on got it. There was no market saturation. Now the people that want one have to hope a collector is selling for whatever reason for a coin to become available, not a flipper that bought 50 of them.

    As PP said, collectors are glad the mintage is falling. You call it mint to exceed. I’m not sure what you’re saying. The Mint is saving resources by making only what the public is demanding. There won’t be a excess. Excesses comes when the Mint states a final mintage, if the design is appealing flippers buy more in anticipation of a quick buck. The first few coins sell for mad money on eBay and just fuels the hype, now everyone believes they should get that kind of money for the coin, regardless that a great portion of the buyers were flippers buying to sell in the first place. Had they been taken out of the equation in the first place, that coin might not have sold out to begin with, because collector demand was met, flipper demand was not.

    Either way we will know more about this coin next year after sales stop. If you are selling coins I fully understand why you don’t like mint to demand. If you value your coins based on todays ebay sales, be careful. If you collect, are in it for the long haul, and buy what you like mint to demand should not bother you, and I’ll go out on a limb and say (with coin history as of today) that it will benefit you when it comes to modern gold.

  19. VA Bob says

    thePhelps – Well said, and sound advice. Hype is good for the short term. When it’s gone the coin has to stand on its own merits, design (desirability), availability, condition, and rarity (mintage).

  20. jeff says

    Not a win. Secondarily your talking about an Iconic coin in any form let along RP Buffalo that’s not the case with the Kennedy and i’m sure you will agree. You are correct it’s only half time. However these days instant gratification will be the norm. Information travels faster and you get a peak at the future if you can’t see it that’s not my fault. Ebay is the future that sets the market for coins it’s real time those that see this will be ahead of the game. We can talk all day about a coin but the bottom like is what someone is willing to pay if it’s generically speaking not much. Speaking from uniqueness, one of a kind, stylish oh and millions of basball fans then we know which one has the best potential that’s all I’m saying. I’m sure I’ll be wrong about a sub 950 price but evidence shows below initial price are obtainable that’s what does not bode well for this coin I don’t think the RP Buffalo lost value during its run like the Kennedy has.

  21. Hawkster says

    Because of the spectacle that accompanied the gold Kennedy release, this coin was doomed from the start in terms of sales. As more and more potential buyers became disenchanted with the way things unfolded, the collector base rapidly slipped away. Collectors on the fence fell off. Flippers, and the U.S. Mint itself, remain with unsold product.
    The reality never met the anticipation and hype associated with this coin. A sad chapter for the coin hobby.

  22. Pittsburgh P says

    Jeff you seem to confuse who makes what point & who you are arguing with. VaBob and Phelps have already covered most of what I would say and you are entitled to your opinion as I am. You just seem to pick and choose what you want to argue and ignore many other valid points though. It’s apparent how you feel but for you to say you can see the future due to the internet and eBay and it’s not your fault that no one else can is not just funny it’s ludicrous. I have also been a huge proponent of the BHoF coins but you take it to a whole new level & it is apple to oranges in comparision to the JFK coins. You try to seperate the gold and the silver set but it is the same as seperating the gold and silver BHoF coins.
    How can you say the JFK is not an iconic coin too? Is it just the gold version that isn’t iconic or every one since its inception in 1964? You do know they are the same design with very minor differences. I said it before and I honestly do not understand half of what you say and your facts and numbers that you stand by are jumbled and as confusing as your statements. Again I appreciate your views & you are entitled to your opinion and am not arguing with you. I only feel you shouldn’t be so confrontational and superior in your comments – maybe you just take things a bit to personal idk…

  23. Pittsburgh P says

    Hawkster I agree with you but I for one am glad the mint & flippers are sitting on product & hope it continues until the Mint decides to call it over and lick their wounds – maybe it’ll be a wake up call but if neg sales numbers continue to the end I will be estatic!

  24. Jim says

    I’m not sure why everyone seems to agree that the RP Buffalo is a success on the secondary market. I bought one from the Mint for $1,640 and it is still in OGP. I checked eBay and they are going for about $100 less in OGP for most sales in the last couple of weeks. A few are going for around original issue cost. I believe they will eventually go for more especially if gold sustains a higher price, but I believe the current price depression is a function of mint to demand and the current down trend in gold.

  25. cagcrisp says

    @Pittsburgh P, Thanks for your input on the Silver Kennedy’s.
    @VA Rich, Still waiting for you.

    At first I was Not in favor of Mint-to-Whatever and stated on this blog that I was Not going to be purchasing Any Gold Kennedy’s. I Grossly Overestimated demand for these products and once I saw that the number were Not going to be Over 125k, I am Happy Happy Happy with Mint-to-demand. Wouldn’t have in any other way. Love Love Love my Duds and Love Love Love my Circus coins..

    Flipper’s Nightmare. Love it. As far as pricing on the bay, Why oh Why would someone want to pay More than issue price on the bay when you can get a Perfectly good coin (with return privilages) from the Mint? Why oh Why would you look to the bay as the ‘definitive pricing mechanism’ when there is a More Viable option in the Mint? So what is the Market for the Gold Kennedy’s? 64,305 have been sold by the Mint, while 998 have been sold on the bay. Yep, Once the Mint quit selling coins we will see where these settle out…

  26. bob says

    I think the Kennedy secondary market pricing proves a simple, but important lesson – mint to demand, even with a time window or household limit, significantly hinders the price appreciation of coins – even if they have great appeal.

    If they Mint would have simply announced a mintage limit of 50,000 or 75,000 – the kennedy gold would already have sold out and the secondary prices would be fine, but maybe not amazing.

    Not putting mintage limits hurts coin values – plain and simple. Even adding time limts or household limits, which is stupid if the mintage is unlimited, also doesnt help overcome the unlimited mintage. The proof is in the facts.

    The mint needs to learn the lessons and improve.

  27. AkBob says

    @Sith & Jim – DITTO!!! The RP Buffalo has been a DUD too, UNFORTUNATELY and it’s because of the “Mint to Demand”. Mint to Demand does nothing but hurt the collector as well as the US Mint in the long run. JMO though:)))) The JFK release has turned off a lot of collector’s and has chased off those that were on the fence. I actually think there are many a collector on the fence. It is just getting worse rather than better. The JFK has left a VERY bad taste in many folks mouths and it may just be the straw that broke the camels back, sadly. Mint to Demand should NOT be used with special releases, IMO. Everyone that wanted a 2011 Anniversary Set got one. I don’t think there is much demand over 50K for just about all of the special issues. Folks like to bash the TPG’s, Ebay, BIG dealers, Flippers, etc but just stop and think about what it was like before all of these avenues to go to were available to get whatever you want back prior to the mid 90’s plus or minus a few years. You were stuck with the mint and your local dealer. You can bash all of these various entities but without them we’d have a much more difficult time acquiring the coins we like and/or want. Are they perfect, of course not but you can decide which ones you prefer and which ones you dislike but all in all, they have made a lot more coins available. They are the ones that can purchase the large hoards and distribute them (market/sell) as they have deep enough pockets to afford them. I think they have helped this hobby survive up to this point. Lets face it, this hobby was on it’s last leg in the mid 90’s. Give “some” credit to those entities that do deserve it as there are some good ones out there for all of. us.

  28. Hidalgo says

    For ATB 5 ounce silver collectors — the 2014 America the Beautiful Five Ounce Silver Uncirculated Coin – Great Sand Dunes National Park coin will be available for purchase tomorrow (September 15th). I am looking forward to my one – coin subscription to ship!

  29. Howard says

    One reason the RB is not selling that well is the look of the coin itself.
    The Proof shows more detail in comparison. Hopefully mintage factor
    will help the value in the future.

  30. jeff says

    I agree mint to demand suppresses upside potential. Not to harp on the bhof they sold out nearly 450000 in less than two weeks. I know we’re waiting on the silvers but does anyone here real beleive the kennedy silver will be met with the same exuberance I’ll say no way in hell. So the conclusion is exceedingly strong support for one but not the Kennedy. Like one of the poster said the 64 is the true Jem not the last 49 year issues with one of those gold not impressive at all.

  31. VA Bob says

    Jim – the price of gold is always going to have an effect on modern gold. In 2013 gold ranged from near $1700 down to $1200. Not that the RP is bullion, but the fact that still sells well above spot prices tells me it lost bullion gold value not numismatic value. If gold were to drop to say $500, like last year, tell me what modern gold coin would not be affected? For that matter tell me what other 2013 gold coin besides the RP Buff didn’t take a hit? Are they losers too?

  32. VA Bob says

    AK Bob – I have no problem with dealers, flippers, and speculators. I know they love declared mintages before hand because they make their profit quickly and move on. I’m sure they believe it’s great to get half the Mintage up front and sell to those that missed the boat for inflated, hyped prices. It doesn’t affect me because I don’t buy from them.

    If you don’t believe a growing hobby will raise demand in the future, but a glut of coins in a dealers inventory will, that’s for you to decide. Personally I believe a coin (or almost anything) that exists in strong hands is going to be much more difficult to find, harder to get someone to sell, and go for more when they do.

    Jeff – Yeah, beanie babies were a hot ebay item too. Doesn’t fit well with your idea of them basically the be all end of an items value, does it? It’s fine if you’re into hype, no so much on future values.

  33. VA Bob says

    Howard – the 1oz. RP Buff sold 7K more coins the 1/4 oz. BHOF gold final mintage, so according to some here it’s a loser, if you follow that logic.

  34. Pittsburgh P says

    I agree the RP is not a huge winner but don’t believe its a dud by any means. For one it was released less than a year ago – only 6 months after the BHoF release and everyone says we have to wait and see on that one. Also, like VaBob said when it was released gold was 1400$ an oz. So if it is still selling for mint pricing with gold below 1250$ now I’d say that is saying only good things for it.

  35. Brice says

    Here’s an idea:
    1) Set a mintage minimum.
    2) Ordering window of 4 weeks.
    3) Ship/mint no coins till ordering window closes. All coins ship at once. ( within reason )
    4) Mint have better quality control inspectors.
    5) The mint mints 10% additional for returns for exchange.
    6) Only exchange permitted, no cancellations of orders.
    7) TPG’s not an issue ( oops, TPG’s won’t like that )
    8) All who ordered will be happy
    9) All who missed out on the LOW mintage possibility have eBay if there are sellers.
    Any other additions / deletions / tweaks?
    IMO

  36. VA Bob says

    PP – I am in agreement with jeff on one thing, when he said people want instant gratification, I feel he is absolutely right. The problem is collecting (anything) flies in the face of instant gratification from a monetary point of view. All collectables can either rise or fall in time. If everything went up, we’d all be rich. Sellers make a living off instant gratification, both theirs and the buyers.

  37. Pittsburgh P says

    VaBob Yep this is true… Everyone wants everything now! Not just coins & imo it isn’t a good thing.

  38. Hawkster says

    I think that, in light of the Kennedy gold fiasco, most collectors will display a certain amount of caution in regard to their commitment to the Kennedy silver set. Because of the price point of the set, sales will obviously be much more vigorous than the Kennedy gold. But, are collectors already re-evaluating the necessity of purchasing multiples of this set? Or, are they becoming more content to get only one or two as a momento of the Kennedy legacy?
    Personally, I’m giving serious consideration to just getting a single set, primarily because of the reverse proof coin. Given the choice, I would rather spend my money on another silver product: the low mintage 5 oz. uncirculated ATB’s–which I think have a much better chance of doing better in value over the long term.

  39. cagcrisp says

    @bob, Where do you get “I think the Kennedy secondary market pricing proves a simple, but important lesson – mint to demand, even with a time window or household limit, significantly hinders the price appreciation of coins – even if they have great appeal.”?? The 2009 UHR just Blows your comment out of the water. High mint-to-demand sales, with initial low household limits, and look at Current prices.

    The ebay market for the Gold Kennedy does Not prove anything. You have NO Idea what the price appreciation of the Gold Kennedy’s will be because the Sales window from the Mint has not closed. I do Not see why ANYONE would think pricing should INCREASE for ANY product on the SECONDARY market when you can buy CHEAPER on the PRIMARY market. That just blows my mind when someone thinks a current product should sale Higher, Used than New..

    Looks to me we have a LOT OF SOUR GRAPES FROM FLIPPERS. I know some of you that have commented on this subject are flippers..

    And yes it is a Flippers Nightmare AND I hope the Mint continues to make it a Flippers Nightmare…

  40. Eagle One says

    Special Products Release Strategy

    1) Forecast, determine, and set a realistic maximum mintage.
    2) Design and plan for production.
    3) Manufacture, inspect, and package the entire mintage run.
    4) Announce, advertise, and set the sales date.
    5) Opening Sales Day….
    A) Sell the manufactured mintage only
    B) Limit of 5 per customer
    C) No cut-off date or window
    D) Internet sales only on day 1
    E) Returns allowed for refund
    F) No subscriptions
    G) No back orders
    5) Sell until everything is gone.

  41. VA Bob says

    Hawkster – It hasn’t changed my mind on the silver JFK’s. As soon as the price was announced I knew I would pick up two sets. I beg to differ with your assessment. I believe serious collectors know exactly how many they need for their collection, or to give as gifts. Why would they need more unless they are planning to sell? What would be interesting information to have would be how many Mint products are sold for immediate resale purposes. This, of course we’ll never know for certain,

  42. VA Bob says

    Brice – You have some good ideas, so I’ll tell you the one I don’t like, minimum mintages. To me that’s probably worse than max mintages. Let the free market decide. Besides, what if they make more that no one wanted? Keep them on sale forever? I believe the Mint knows how many of a coin it needs to make in order to break even. Even if it didn’t it’s not like a regular business that would feel the economic loss.

    You have to allow people to cancel orders. The Mint sure will cancel yours if you CC shows a problem. A restock fee for returns does however sound reasonable. Return for replacement is pretty good as it is IMO, but the potential for abuse is there.

  43. VA Bob says

    Eagle One – Ok here it is, 100K for all gold, 500K for all silver, and 1 million for all clad. The Mint would assess sales along the way to avoid producing coins that aren’t wanted. How’s that? Flippers still wouldn’t like it, because it allows too many to circumvent the hype.

  44. AkBob says

    Can anyone tell me if the JFK Uncirculated 2 Coin Set in OGP is sealed in a plastic wrap from the mint like the Making American History or the Milleneium (sp) Set so that you can’t see the coins unless you unwrap it? If there’s no plastic wrap sealed around the OGP, the sellers can cherry pick the coins and that’s why I’m asking. If there is a plastic sealed wrap around the folder/OGP then they can’t be cherry picked. Thanks in advance.

  45. Brice says

    VABob – Guess I was thinking the minimum would be the break even point for the mint (If there is such a thing).

  46. VA Bob says

    I can’t for the life of me understand the concept of having a government entity ensuring an immediate profit on an item sold. These high artificial prices on the secondary market will serve one purpose, the Mint will think they can charge Perth and RCM prices, so they can get the dollars up front. Then the collectors will fall away from the overpriced PM’s, leaving the flippers selling to the speculators, just like the $10,000.00 JFK clad. it just take one uninformed to bite. I’d rather take a price based on years of history than what one dealer/flipper is selling today for on eBay, so almost every other dealer/flipper raises their prices, it hopes of getting the same kind of fish to bite.

  47. VA Bob says

    Brice – Well the FS series might be pushing that concept. The saving grace is that they are gold and make a nice premium for the Mint. I don’t believe the Mint would even consider a coin that would fall below an anticipated break even point, unless like the FS, congress mandated it.

  48. VA Rich says

    Eagle One – thanks for the detail, sorry to hear it didn’t work out. I think we may have similar situations, I’ll be back either Monday or Tuesday evening once mine arrive to compare notes.

    cag – sell you on reasons for Buying 6 sets of Silver Kennedy’s to be given to grandchildren?

    In all honesty, I can’t. I might have been able to make a good argument a few weeks ago, though not now. In reality, when the kids are 21, they’re not going to give a hoot-in-hell who Kennedy was, they’ll know him then as well as they do now (zilch).

    I’ll share this with you .., I was really being quite cynical when I said several times that the mint had better show with 100k set on Game Day.., when it was announced that they intend to have 150k sets on hand, that surprised the bejeezus out me. The mint is conservative, so what does that tell you? This set is going to be so oversold, may even punch through 300,000+. I like the set and plan to buy 5, though in the last week I’ve pulled back from buying any set for young family members, there’s better alternatives out there.

  49. Brice says

    Never cared for that series from its beginnings. Sometimes Congress needs to keep its nose on more pressing things in the world. Let the mint send out their surveys and questionnaires, then, and only then, get congressional approval.

  50. VA Bob says

    Anyway, that’s about all I have to say on Mint to demand, and especially the future prospects of the JFK gold. The pies still in the oven and were all talking about how it’s going to taste. Everyone has their perceptions on what is good or bad for the hobby, and minds are unlikely to be changed so easily. So, I’ll just wish everyone the best of luck with their collecting endeavors. At times we might agree or disagree with each other, but that doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate and respect everyone’s thoughts.

  51. VA Bob says

    Brice – No that’s a good one for your list! I couldn’t agree more. If they put as much thought into the coins they ask for as they do campaigning for elections, we’d have the most beautiful coins in the world in our pockets.

  52. MarkInFlorida says

    VA Bob, you should sort those Beanie babies by price/highest first and see how many Princess Diana are for sale for hundreds of thousands of dollars, with hundreds of people watching to see if theirs is also worth it!

  53. Eagle One says

    VA Bob – You did a great job keeping this train rolling. I really enjoyed this thread and your comments. Cheers Bro

  54. Brice says

    Agreed, I do enjoy the hobby and as I’ve heard on MNB numerous times, buy what you like and you’ll never be disappointed, I haven’t been.

  55. VA Bob says

    MarkInFlorida – Would you buy it (the Princess Diana) beanie baby for that price? Did it belong to her? The fact is I could make something with Princess Diane’s name on it and (try) sell it for way more than it’s worth. Doesn’t mean I’ll get it. My point in putting the beanie baby list up was that 14 years ago their were many selling for crazy money. Some people still believe they are still worth that kind of money, but a lot less now that some have been burned. Someone recently bought a $100K gold JFK, that doesn’t make it true for all gold JFK’s. Eagle One had a link up to a $10,000 clad JFK (being watched), I don’t dream I would get that price for mine.

  56. VA Bob says

    Eagle One -Cheers to you as well.

    Brice – It sounds cliché but if everyone interested in this hobby does that, they’ll never be disappointed. The second one is buy the coin not the label (or package).

  57. cagcrisp says

    @VA Rich, Thanks for the input…

    I was Also charged with the “IF you don’t think the Silver Kennedy’s are a good buy, then what would be?” and that is why I asking for yours and Pittsburg P’s input. Now I am going to have to think. It would have been easier to just go ahead and say “Buy the 6 sets” but in good conscience, Now I am going to have to put my thinking cap on. I’m mostly a Gold person so thinking about Silver is Not my cup of tea…

  58. Brice says

    VA Bob – True, never have been a label chaser on any moderns. I do think about it on older coins though just for verification that it is what they say it is, and VERY few of those

  59. jeff says

    Amazing action ended uncirculated gold bhof with OGP sold 40% + over initial price point. Let’s see after 6 months were the Kennedy stacks up.

  60. VA Bob says

    Brice – I’m not bothered by people that get coins graded and slabbed. Seems a little out of place for moderns, unless one really likes slabs for storage purposes (I get that) or intends to sell over the internet soon, the grade isn’t going to change in OGP. Why put it in a plastic coffin now (except for the first reason I gave) when the fickle buying public can change their minds about TPG in the future? Grading shouldn’t be a problem with a brand new never issued Mint coin. There are plenty photo examples of even the newest coins in various grades.

    What does bother me to a point is the outrageous prices being asked for graded coins, and the FS/ER label scheme do bother me. If one picks it up for the same price as a comparable coin (buy the coin not the package) that’s fine, and it sends the message that those labels are really meaningless. I said to a point because I don’t go out of my way looking to buy coins with this as their selling point. I do hate to see others taken advantage of though, that’s a personal quirk of mine.

  61. Hawkster says

    VaRich,

    I have to agree with your assessment that the Kennedy silver set does not make for a great gift to younger family members, especially grandchildren–who are far removed from the Kennedy years. On the other hand, there are Mint offerings that provide great gifts for the grand kids, such as the HOF coins.
    Let me ask this question to collectors: Are you really buying those extra sets because you think the grand kids will enjoy them, or are you really buying them for yourself and using the grandkid thing as a justification to hoard multiple sets?

  62. Hawkster says

    John,
    Think about it: Mega dealers such as the HSN guy who, by ordering massive quantities of coin offerings from the Mint, and then selling them to gullible customers, are flooding the market. Of course this has the effect of suppressing the long term value of such offerings, as could very likely be the case with the Kennedy silver sets. It surely happened with the 2013 Silver Eagle Set.

  63. Eagle One says

    VA Rich – I still have a second order of HR Clads due in from PCGS on the 9/19. I purchased these 5 clad sets through a friend late in the offering and was able to get them in right before the First Strike window closed. These coins were exceedingly better than my original submission of the 7 coins mentioned earlier (4 68s and 3 67s). These coins were spot free and had great mirrors with no distractions. I selected only four for submission; since I knew it was SP68 or better or bust. Also, the cost of submission is getting out of hand for this series. Two Ps and two Ds. Hoping for the best and I will keep you posted.

  64. jeff says

    Hawkster I agree your grandchildren will careless about JF Kennedy or the forty first president or the thirteenth president all they would care about is what’s the going price for spot gold. Now bhof they will relate to America’s pastime for its baseball they know they’ll come to Iowa City and just give you twenty dollars lol

  65. VA Bob says

    1995-S Olympics Baseball Half Dollar UNC 164,605 Proof 118,087 .
    1997-S Jackie Robinson Silver Dollar UNC 30,180 Proof 110,002
    1997-W Jackie Robinson $5 Gold UNC 5,174 Proof 24,072

    I guess all the baseball fans were waiting for the BHOF to come around. Of course the 1992 Olympic silver dollar (the one with the controversial Nolan Ryan image) sold more, but they are worth about what a 90% silver dollar goes for today. The only coin in the bunch that has done well were the UNC 97 JR and that’s because there was no flipper’s hype at the time, even with the TV coin shows.

  66. Hawkster says

    Grandkids could probably care less about receiving Kennedy coins, Soon after gramps gives them a set, they will pop them out of their capsules and spend the two dollars on a slice of pizza or a creamsicle from the ice cream guy. Gramps can then take back the capsules to house his ’64 Kennedy proofs.

  67. VA Bob says

    For contrast:

    1995-S Olympics Basketball Half Dollar UNC 171,001 Proof 169,655
    1999-P Dolley Madison Silver Dollar UNC 89,104 Proof 224,403

  68. VA Bob says

    Hawkster – I wouldn’t give a grand child a zinc cent (as a collectable) if they weren’t interested in coins, besides spending them. Would any of our grandfathers say the same of us years ago over a Barber or Walking half dollar? Everything I have from my grandfather is precious to me, and was that way before he passed.

  69. VA Bob says

    Well you’re a braver man than I Bob R! What is the intrinsic value of cloth, buttons, and of course beans these days anyway? Oh and look, the label, heck the whole beanie baby, is slabbed to boot, it must be valuable. I’m sure you can turn it around for $1000. Good luck to you. 😉

  70. Jerry Diekmann says

    thePhelps – you are right about the mintages of gold sellouts being less than the authorized mintages. Just look at the final mintages of gold half-eagles and eagles that “sold out”, starting with the 1984 Olympics and going forward. Of course, many of these gold coins came in way less than the authorized number, and some of them have seen lofty prices, like the Jackie Robinson $5.00 coin, because it and some others in those years were not purchase by collectors. I’m not sure when flippers and the TPGs got into the mix, but it’s a lot worse now because of them. I have two theories on this lack of sales: 1) they were unattractive coins; or (2) too many of them were issued in too close a time frame (1996 Atlanta Olympics). Those are just examples.

  71. Clark says

    Speaking of good ol’ Jackie Robinson, I just bought a 1997 $5 gold unc Robinson in MS69 for a great price ($1525), but can’t place the so-called pedigree on the label “US Vault Collection L/M” My quick google search yielded only others over the years asking the same question with no definitive answers. Anyone ever heard of it? Thanks.

  72. DIGA44 says

    I had a store and a guy use to stop by with his van selling baseball wax boxes, he had a dozen beanie babies in a bag and said I should sell them, I asked how much was he selling them he said 10.00 a piece I knew that was retail and said how will I make any money he said ,look , I will front you the dozen sell them for 15.00 if they don’t sell I will take them back they sold out in 3 days! The buyers, WOMEN. they couldn’t write checks fast enough
    Sorry guys that was a strange collectors market, women are not that collectors,men are,but they are the biggest consumer and I don’t think they are buying coins from the mint HA
    Moral of the story :
    Bringing up beanie babies and coins you can’t even compare the two, get women to buy from the mint like they did beanies. Well Cha Ching!!!

  73. Jerry Diekmann says

    VA Bob – Love your insight and thoughts. You keep this up and you are going to become the Patriarch of this group for your wisdom and knowledge.

  74. DIGA44 says

    It’s great to be a collector, if you can afford it, I am a collector too , but only if I can buy to collect if it doesn’t cost a lot
    So if you can afford 100.00 s of dollars or 1240.00 for a Gold Kennedy and say well I am a just a collector, you have to have a lot of disposable income, if you do you are a lucky person
    Because if you all of a sudden u need money, because unfortunate circumstance well I want to be the guy that buys your 1000.00 item for 600.00 I hate being the guy that loses that 400 .00
    I like limited numbered mintage, limited numbered any collectible, I feel there is a MAYBE a better chance that my collectible will hold it’s value but still no guaranty!
    eBay started around 1996. And most collectibles started to lose value because now anyone could sell from anywhere in the country. So if and item was selling for 100.00 pre -eBay now someone would just put it up for sale cheaper

  75. VA Bob says

    Jerry – No my friend, I’m not looking for such a position. My opinions are just that my own, some may share, some may not. There are few right answers, and I don’t profess to having them all. Everyone needs to decide how best to collect to meet their own needs. I enjoy hearing others opinions even if they diverge from mine. Everyone brings to the table.

  76. VA Bob says

    DIGA44 – Beanie Babies were brought up by me, not in comparison to coins, but as an eBay indicator of future value, or even current value. Because one, two, or twenty get a certain price for an item, doesn’t mean everyone will, nor does it mean future prices on an item will be higher (or lower). Years ago their were many high dollar Beanie Babies on eBay for sale. Sure some people are still selling them high, and someone must be buying, but it’s no where close to near the frenzy it used to be. Many got stuck with boxes of stuffed animals they paid $100’s even $1000’s for. Not likely to be the same with coins, but the same holds true for coin prices on eBay in relation to any particular coins future. No offense to Beanie Baby collectors.

  77. Dave says

    Listen up everyone — IF I want your opinion, I’ll give it to you — yeah dig?

    Just joshing, I too like to hear everyone’s opinion.

    The real *Dave*

  78. VA Rich says

    cag – a good buy for grandchildren(?)

    – 1/10 AGE BU in their birthyear or Proof, probably sells for about the same
    – AtB P puck
    – PRF & UNC BHoF, or some mixture of
    – if pre-teens or older – Zombucks
    – AtB silver quarter set

    I have a unique photo of my nephew sitting out on the front of a log cabin in Gatlinburg when he was 5, he getting a fold out of that photo on one side and 5oz GSM puck on the other. He may not dig is it now, but in 10 years… it’ll be Uncle Rich hooked me up!

  79. cagcrisp says

    @VA Rich, Thanks..

    This is what those 6 children are getting from me this Christmas. ATB silver quarter set (each one has complete set), the 2013 Annual $1 Unc set, and 2014 half-dollar 200-coin bag (P&D). I also get every year for Birthday the 1/10oz AGE proof. Their grandmother gives the 6 grandchildren a $1 Silver BHOF for Birthdays. This is First year that she has decided to give Coins for Christmas. She Gives a LOT of other things through out the year and will also give a LOT for Christmas besides coins.
    The ATB puck is a possibility but I would have to subsidize the difference between purchase prices and $99.95.

  80. VA Rich says

    cag – One other thought, last year said nephew had just finished up a school project on Thomas Jefferson that he proud of – for Christmas he got a TJ C&C set with the $2 bill in it and matte nickel – it was a big hit, he learned something more about TJ, I got a really buy on it, will it appreciate it(?), probably not much but he got for $0 though most likely that $2 will be worth 2 cents when he’s my age. Point is – the mint has made some real nice C&C sets in the past that bring a lot of value.

    Hey guys – don’t make fun a beanie babies! I have a USS Ronald Regan (CVN 76) beanie bear and he’s one bad ass beanie baby! LOL

  81. Sith says

    VA-Bob – The criteria used to define successful is secondary market value. That was defined by the blog. Saying the RP Buffalo using that criteria is nothing but a flop is disingenuous. You can’t jump in after the fact and change the criteria to montages. Using that logic the FS coins are the most successful program the mint has seen, and don’t blame me I did not choose the criteria.

  82. MarkH says

    VABob-I saw an auction on TV a week or so ago where they sold a set of Kennedy clads (2014 $9.95 from the mint) for $1500. I couldn’t believe it. They were trying to make the public believe the set should be going for $100K+.

    MarkH

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