Well, that was fast: 2017 Congratulations Set sells out in two minutes

Yesterday at 12 noon (Eastern time), the U.S. Mint released product number 17RF: the 2017 Congratulations Set, which contained an S-mintmarked (rather than the traditional W-mintmarked) American Eagle silver Proof. The gates clanged open and within 1/20 of a second, the orders were flying. I know for a fact that it was within 1/20 of a second, because that’s how quickly I clicked.

I’m neither an investor nor a proper collector, but ever since learning about the coin last week—from a Mint New Blog reader, naturally—I knew I’d try to get one. My interest was purely professional, of course—a quasi-scientific study, in the interest of the blog: What will our subject do under these harried conditions? The subject should be a newbie, and I definitely qualified. Despite editing numismatic books for a dozen years, I’ve never been tempted to dive into the hobby—in fact, the more I’ve learned about numismatics, the more I’ve realized how little I know, and the less inclined I’ve become to spend real money on coins.

To establish my bona fides, I’ll reveal the extent of my “collection,” which is housed in a 1930s jewelry box belonging to my late grandmother. These items include:

  • a baggie of entertaining junk-box pieces (five for a dollar!)
  • a 1-ounce Year of the Goat Australian bullion coin
  • a copper Catherine the Great 5 kopeks that could, in a pinch, be used as a weapon
  • an Ivan the Terrible kopek, purchased on the same day (my husband’s selection; interpret our choices as you will)
  • several Russian coins from the lifetime of Anton Chekhov, on the grounds that he could have carried one of them in his sainted pocket
  • a number of Whitman Expo tokens, flatties, wooden nickels, etc.
  • a handful of worn Buffalo nickels from the Whitman vending machine
  • a couple of Indian Head half eagles, Indian pennies, and similar items that are actually worth having (gifts from my father-in-law)

I did pony up for the Australian “Southern Sky” coins a few months ago, because I liked them and I have a lot of trust and respect for the person who called my attention to them. But that’s the extent of my experience in the hands-on collecting area of the field.

I knew I’d get distracted by other matters and would forget the event entirely if I didn’t take precautions, so I circled the date on my calendar; established a Mint account and signed up for a reminder email; programmed an alert into my phone; and surrounded my monitor with fluorescent sticky-notes. Thus reassured that the bases were covered, when Tuesday arrived I didn’t remember it until three minutes before the shotgun start.

Gah! I went to the site, logged in to my account, and proceeded to troubleshoot. Credit-card number? Check. Delivery address? Check. I’s dotted, T’s crossed? Check, and check. I pulled up the ordering screen and positioned my cursor over the blue “Remind Me” button. I glanced at the clock in my browser:


I thought about checking my email, then mentally popped myself on the knuckles with a ruler and resumed waiting.


I started to wonder how the order would go down. Would the blue “Remind Me” button become a red “Add to Bag” button at noon? Or would it be stuck on blue until I refreshed the browser, at which point it would be too late? I decided to refresh the browser now. I counted to ten—one-one-thousand, two-one-thousand—then refreshed it again. I did this until, in between refreshers, the screen blinked and the button turned red.

I clicked almost before my brain perceived the color change, then hit “Checkout” and the next screen popped up. Shipping choice, okay, got that, but why does it not think I’m logged in? What is happening?

I plowed through that hiccup and got to the payment screen—where the credit-card blanks were empty. No no no, I added that earlier and my credit card’s zipped back up in my bag! Ah, drop-down menu—select card—click the “Next” button . . .

Nothing. One-one-thousand, two-one-thousand.

What’s the deal? Why won’t you go? I squinted at the screen. All blanks full. I drummed my fingers on my desk. A-ha! A little red alert:

The Security Code is

And here my brain shorted out. A full one-one-thousand, two-one-thousand passed before my security code floated to the top of my mind like the message in the window of a Magic 8-Ball. I keyed in my code and completed my order. I looked at the clock as it clicked over to:


I printed my order confirmation. I indulged in one long, deep breath, then shifted over to the blog comments. Order times and numbers were stacking up; I wanted to play, too, so I added mine.

And then, at about 12:03, the readers were reporting in: it’s over. This product is currently unavailable. Learn more.

I said out loud, “Well that was fast.”

* * *

According to CoinWorld.com, the official sell-out time for the entire product limit of 75,000 was about two minutes. This morning the Mint’s communications office sent an email blast to editors; it consisted of one sentence: “Sales attrition from cancellations, returns and credit card declinations could result in a very limited quantity being made available for sale.” Which means that, if you got shut out, you should find an app that will alert you when the status changes. (I like Distill.) Even with an app, you’ll have to be fast—by the time you receive the alert and get online, they may be gone already.

Wait, why am I sharing my Distill tip? Before finishing this report, I checked my status on the Mint’s website, which said, “back ordered.” I completed my order before 12:01, ages before the set was sold out. The Mint sent me a confirmation. Yet my bank account hasn’t been pinged for it, and my status is “back ordered.”

If anyone needs me, I’ll be here at my desk, pretending I don’t really care, that it was all for the advancement of science, and that I didn’t really want one anyway.   ❑

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  1. Erik H says

    I didn’t realize that there would be a gold price decrease today, I thought it would stay the same.

    17XA now has the price posted $1640

  2. Erik H says

    Diana, I am glad you got yours. I was surprised how well the site loaded this time however I had no access to a computer so I tried to use my cell phone. When it asked for my C.C. code it wouldn’t let me type it in the box (some type of glich) and before I knew it, gone. Oh well…

  3. Baldwin says

    I am like you Diana… backordered on my 12:01 order. Funny article, you’ll find out if you hang around these posters too long you’ll be buying interesting bullion coins of all weights and sizes as well as the occasional jewel the mint quietly issues.

    My order was actually the smoothest I have had with the mint on a high demand item. Normally I am crashing at check out over and over until it goes through.

  4. Louis Golino, Author says

    Since you received a confirmation, I think you are okay. Worst case they may ship it after the ones that came in later since the Mint sometimes seems to reverse the normal first in, first out. That back order status is odd, but that may change soon.

    Mine went to processing right away, which was unusual, as they usually put in on hold and then process. Shipped today. Good luck.

  5. Drew S says

    My package has been processed and shipped.

    I guess that’s why I was stunned with such a fast sell out was because my buying process was so smooth.

    But yeah, the cc security code thing I always forget about that.

  6. DOUG says

    I just looked at my order history and ot says processing. I ordered two 5 oz Iowa pucks with RR c&c also. I alsi ordered in first two minutes with a confirmation email. My problem is that they list 5 ASE coins but says $0 with the amount only for the other coins. Are they taking away the ASE? No where in my order history does it say backordered.

  7. mgm says

    USM049849XX shipped with confirmation number. Ordered 30 to 40 seconds after noon eastern.

  8. Baldwin says

    I posted this in the other thread…

    My 12:01 order USM049854XX for 4 items was processing all day yesterday and now shows backordered.

    Does anyone have a higher order number that is shipped? I did get the confirmation emails etc… and did have a Proof ASE in my order that shipped, so I know it isn’t a card problem.

  9. Yes, But...You Can't Take It With You says

    Diana, I really enjoy your writing style – you gave me quite a few good laughs. We who are veterans of the USM ordering frenzies can tell you with certainty that your experience was NOT typical. Fast, but not typical. Usually there are so many glitches (most often at the end of the checkout process), you begin to feel that you are back in the Matrix experiencing deja vu all over again.

    One of my orders is still processing, the other on backorder.

  10. Toby says

    Mine too went from processing status to backorder….with my credit card already hit.
    I did a web chat with the mint and they explained they sent out the stock they had on hand.
    They said they are awaiting the remainder of the 75K to arrive from San Francisco. I asked how many were sent out from the stock at hand, they said they didn’t have that information available.

  11. Brad says

    Funny article! This was the best one you’ve written yet, Diana!

    Order #USM049852XX shipped late this afternoon. I’m glad I get to continue my lucky streak of never having been shut-out of any U.S. Mint item that I got on the site and fought for, which includes the Eisenhower C & C Set, 2016 Liberty Silver Medals and this 2017 Congratulations Set. Although as others have stated, there was no fight this time. My order was completely glitch-free! That’s extremely rare for me.

  12. earthling says

    My order USM049857XX (15) is listed as shipped ! But of course all that’s really happened is that the USPS has been notified that a package will soon be coming their way. In a few days maybe it will be on its way.

    I totally skipped out on the 2016 SAE’s. Don’t think I’ll touch this years regular issues either.

    I was about to skip out on these S puppies also but then the old clickeroo kicked in.

  13. achmed says

    I don’t think that the orders of 20 are the problem. I think there are about 30-50 big dealers that get about 50% of the mintage. That causes the problem of getting this coin as a collector. By the way: I ordered less then 20 coins. But I am not sure if I will get them.

  14. Dustyroads says


    “Do PO box orders get pushed out ? or is the shipping strictly random”

    I ship to a PO also, and I have seen the same thing. In the back of my head I recall a discussion a year or two ago about this issue. If I recall correctly, the PO Box is the issue.

  15. Mattarch says

    An opinion on the differences in shipping, processing and backorder status from my wife who works for a logistics company. Not associated with the mint but they ship stuff all over the county.

    If the Min’s shipping department is well organized they would have part of their inventory already boxed up in typically ordered quantities based on previous order history, say 1, 2, and 5 per box. Then they just put on a label and ship. Of course this year is not typical and it is likely that no one told the shipping plant in Mississippi.

    If you order an unusual quantity, such as 20, or order other products as I did, then your order takes longer to process and may be backordered while the other products are obtained.

    In the past we have seen a couple articles and photo journalism on trips to the various mint production facilities. After all the complaints about shipping perhaps Diana/Whitman could arrange for a tour of the Mint’s shipping facility and show us the last step in the process of providing coins to collectors.

  16. earthling says

    Here is something I got a lead on from Dave Harpers Blog the other day :


    It’s a repro of a proposal by Frank Gasparro for the new dollar coin in 1979 (or was it 1980 ). I thought this was cool enough so I ordered some Nickel Metal versions the other day. I went back to the website today to get a link and the Nickel edition is sold out but a limited Silver version is now on sale. I ordered some Silver ones also.

    If it looks good, give it a try. Rare repros?

  17. Dustyroads says

    Dianna, Brad is right, at times the site does some really funny things. It all comes down to HHL’s, or more specifically, too much traffic. I like to practice a few times before the release by mock-buying something and running through the entire process all the way to the “I Agree” box. I tend to freeze up and blank out when I’m pressured, so this helps me stay at ease. Anyway, I guess we can now advise you to –buy what you like– since you’re official.

  18. DaveC says

    I didn’t even get this blog in my inbox that the congratulations coin would be special until after 4:00PM on the 4th. 4 hours too late Mountain time.

  19. So Krates says

    @ Erik H – My phone does the same thing. When entering the security code it does not appear in the field, instead it appears in the bar above the keyboard as predictive text. I have to then touch the three digit number and only then will it fill in the field. I have a Galaxy S5.

  20. Erik H says

    So Kratres, now you tell me (I have the same phone).

    I keep saying that my “smart phone isn’t smart”, but now I know. Hopefully I never have to order by phone again but THANKS for the tip!

  21. VA Bob says

    So Krates, I had the same thing (also a Galaxy 5) happen to me months ago on another Mint scramble. I had to actually copy and paste the number from a notepad app to get the security code into the Mints field. But this time was different. The numbers appeared above the keyboard this time and I entered them normally. Very strange. Something smart phone order placers really need to check prior to a feeding frenzy.

    Mint says my order of one is on the way. No flip, no speculate, it goes in the safe with its siblings.

  22. Erik H says

    The only reason I didn’t take yesterday off to order was because I just came back from vacation on Monday otherwise I’ve never missed a “sell out”. A dealer wants to buy one of my remaining 2011 sets, maybe I’ll sell it and use the proceeds toward a few of these once the final numbers are realized.

  23. earthling says

    ” I have order all of the 225th 1oz gold all. will sale real cheap 3,000.00 each ”

    johnaz – I really wish some misguided Big Boy Dealer did buy the whole run of those things tomorrow. Then we could witness someone in deep trouble trying to dump the undumpable.

    Oh the US Mint – God what have they done? 😮

  24. Erik H says

    VA BOB, I did think about the copy & paste method but with the 2-3 minute sell out my brain wasn’t that quick.

  25. 1958 Pontiac Bonneville says

    We may see the S proof silver eagle return again this year in the 2017 limited edition silver proof set.

  26. Jerry Diekmann says

    I passed on this latest “offering” – I am just getting very tired of these contrived “low mintages” that often are bought by the big dealers who somehow can corner the market. and then gouge collectors with outrageous prices. The Mint should know by now that with no household limit this scenario is almost always bound to happen. In any case, I’m not playing this game any longer. I would love to see this same coin offered later this year in some other contrived “got-to-have low mintage set”. Some authority should look into the Mint’s practices – they’re something rotten in DC. Wait a couple of years and you can probably buy this coin at the price it was when it went on sale.

  27. earthling says

    In a few years I expect to see these at bullion levels. I was tempted to skip these but my old habits kicked in. My first ( and only) order went so well I had planned to do a few more , butttttt…. then the trouble began.. soon ” backorder ” and things ground to a halt.

    I had fun. Reminded me of the old days, buying limited Coins. Used to take hours to push an order in. Remember those days?

  28. art says

    The Mint continues to baffle the human brain. Do ya think they had an inkling of a clue this was going to be a high demand item because of their own doing? And common sense would mean some kind of household ordering limit, right? Noooooooo…… Not the US Mint. Intelligence and common sense are not part of its makeup.

  29. David says

    I think the US Mint is ridiculous for putting a tiny mintage for a product that will be in high demand. The only ones who benefit are the US Mint and flippers/scalpers. I’m not playing this game and I am sure many others are not as well.

  30. Donald says

    Either the poster who bought 20 sets is a bit greedy or he has a whole lot of grandchildren.

  31. VA Bob says

    Erik H – LOL, yeah, I missed out when I did that copy and paste too (Ike C and C set I believe), it took too much time. That said, one could copy their security number in advance, just in case, as it’s the only typed info one has to enter if they have their addresses and other CC info stored on the Mints site. Glad I didn’t need it this time, but I wasn’t even hoping that I would get an order in at all. Dumb luck on my part.

    Jerry- I hear you brother. I have mixed feelings about flipping (I never have). I know some folks are trying to subsidize their hobby, some people are on fixed incomes. I also see where greed can take hold, and some people get obsessed. I’d rather see a coins value increase over time. The coins filter into strong hands, so there are usually fewer to be had. The premiums are mostly stable, not hyped up only to plunge. New collectors should NEVER buy a hyped coin immediately after a sellout like this, no matter the temptation. I try to get an example of all the ASE’s, I do have holes in my set though, that’s the only reason I made the attempt with this one. I’ve scaled way back.

  32. VA Bob says

    I still believe the Mint should not make mintage’s and/or product numbers available before hand. Who does this information benefit? Only the re-sellers. Coins would sell (or not) based on their own merit or popularity. It would encourage better design, too. It would also allow the Mint to pull losers that would never have sold out their “advertised” mintage, as long as they didn’t strike the entire run, instead of languishing in the catalog for years. The weekly sold totals would still be fine. It would really reduce speculation, and much of the need for household limits IMO.

  33. DBR says

    @ Jerry Diekmann and VA Bob,

    I agree with these two posts. It’s scandalous the way the bloggers here are left to speculate about how USM does business and how it is run. Just tell us about the mint’s preferred customers and their perks. Then we could adjust our consumer options accordingly. It’s the wasted time and phony anticipation that makes launches like that fiasco yesterday so undignified.

    Okay, last post on that topic.

  34. So Krates says

    earthling says, “In a few years I expect to see these at bullion levels.”

    Your expectations will not be met. This is a proof ASE. There is a floor on EVERY proof ASE that is well above bullion. The last time I checked, dealer bid on proof Eagles was about $30-$35. While they may fall below issue price, they will not fall to the price of bullion.

  35. earthling says

    So Krates

    Thank you for clearing that up. I live in fear after all the schemes scams and assaults heaped on me over the past 7 years in SE Michigan. How about Platinum Eagles in both Pf and BU ? What sort of floor is there for those?

    When Pt was up over $2k/oz I used to be feeling really really good. Riding it down to around $800 was not a good thing at all.

  36. So Krates says

    Twenty is not greedy. I would have preferred a 20-50 HHL (like the BHOF). Twenty thousand? …now that’s another story.

  37. So Krates says

    Fear and Loathing in Motown…

    Pt floor is spot, BU or Proof – it’s just too small a market…YMMV. The APEs had strong premiums for a while ($300 over spot) because of the gap in production, but have come down since being issued again

    As to spot price floor of Pt, well that would roughly be the all in cost to get it out of the ground.

    I took the ride along with you . Buying on the way down from $1700 to $1400. I’m way underwater now, but at least there are fractionals, a few slabbed 70’s, and some real pretty proofs in the bunch.

  38. says

    Haha, cute article.

    Have an order placed with the first 30 seconds..,

    Has your order shipped or still says Processing?

    Mine is the later

  39. says

    I wholeheartedly agree with VA Bob,

    the mint SHOULD NOT publish Product Limits or planned mintages..

    All of it items should be ‘buy at your own risk’ because you want one.., or a hundred.

    At the end of the year, the mint should publish final mintages in a timely manner.

    And Yes, I am a collector, a hoarder, a speculator, and a flipper.., it’s all a game.

    Think how different (and more interesting) this release would have been IF WE HAD NOT KNOW THE PRODUCT LIMIT.

    Would have changed things up a bit…

  40. says

    1958 Pontiac Bonneville says
    APRIL 5, 2017 AT 10:10 PM

    “We may see the S proof silver eagle return again this year in the 2017 limited edition silver proof set.”

    Or we may not.

    Or we may get a LESPS product at $149.., or $199 if two ASE’s were included.

    Who knows what the mint will do,
    Or what balls will get dropped.

  41. cagcrisp says

    I would NEVER buy a product from the mint without a stated mintage or WITHOUT knowing sales numbers.

    Those numbers are known by someone. Transparency for All and not just a few in the Know.

    That’s one of the things I don’t like about FS coins. The Mint determines when these will be pulled. You bet there are some on the inside that know within a certain range of when they will be pulled. It would be nice if ALL were given that information and not just a few…

  42. KCSO says

    APRIL 5, 2017 AT 4:22 PM

    I posted this in the other thread…
    My 12:01 order USM049854XX for 4 items was processing all day yesterday and now shows backordered.

    That’s Odd – I have two orders, both Processing, my second is about 400 over your order number and the other items of the second order shipped last night though it still shows Processing. My first order is still stuck Processing.

    That fulfilment center in Memphis is so screwed up, & their inventory management and fulfillment systems is a joke.

  43. KCSO says

    That Dumbbutt showed his tracking number,

    He may not receive that one to sell.

    Showing your order number is fine.., just don’t ever, ever show your tracking number, geez.

  44. Kevin says

    Regarding that ebay order number – USM049868**

    How can that order be shipped if my number is USM049853** and is stuck on backorder??? I know people use the order numbers to estimate the number of orders, but maybe these numbers are random? Maybe it’s because I only wanted 1 and they moved up orders with multiples for more efficient shipping?

  45. Mint News Blog says

    Still floating in backorder status…

    I removed the post containing explicit order information for the safety of the poster. I hope no one nefarious had a chance to get hold of the information, but the poster might want to contact the seller to make sure they don’t accept any requests for delivery changes.

  46. Numismatrix says

    I ordered one S-ASE and one Effigy Mounds 5 Oz
    The Mint appears to have split the shipment. The
    5 Oz has shipped – no word on the S-ASE as yet.

  47. Doug says

    Yep, my order seemed to have been split as well. Pucks and RR C&C being shipped today but no Congrats Sets. Web shoes Backorder for them so hopefully I’m still getting them some day soon.

  48. Craig says

    According to the mints own publishing link, the S mark ASE WILL be part of the special silver dollar ASE set later in the year. So there will be another chance to get a ASE with the S mint mark.

  49. Baldwin says

    @Craig… yes but you’ll need to spend over $140 to get it later int he year in the LESP

  50. Sherril says

    People are selling them by the sets in the hundreds on ebay and with no limit the dealers could get all they wanted,so this really wasn’t an item we had a chance on getting!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  51. Old Big Bird says

    Diana – Now that was a good article. I was great that you tried what we the collectors have been dealing with the USM. You can experience a great amount of frustration when trying to place ordered on hot items. I had many of these trying times with BOH (3) of them and all of the C&C sets.(5) of them.

    This time I ordered (7) ASE “S” (4) for my families collections and (3) for friends. And I do not think (20) is the problem as much as (30) or (50) items ordered.

    Like you my order completed before 12:01 and was order # USM049852XX. I received my shipping notice at 3:31pm yesterday. Yes this ordering and payment process was the smoothest in a long time. There was almost always a bad time trying to go through the payment, but this was the best one ever. I do note that the USM site was down to an update (supposedly) on Monday at 9:30am. That was very odd. Perhaps they updated their link to the payment centers.

  52. says

    Rather quiet out here today with the imminent release of the mint’s 225th Anniversary Flagship offering release within the hour.

  53. MarkInFlorida says

    The whole point of this set was as a gift for a special occasion, often for non-collectors. But the Mint turned it into a flipper/scalper scam. I didn’t even try to buy it.

  54. Goat says

    It would be nice if ALL were given that information and not just a few…

    That statement could be valid for amount of coins one purchases also… Any time a “few” controls the market it is set up for a loss for the people. I WILL NOT chase, every time and stress “every time” in the past I have LOST money on these short term rides. Bad game, will destroy the coin collector.

    For ones big gain for seller is a big loss to the purchaser on this short term burst. My advice is to wait have patience.

  55. Dustyroads says

    No surprise.

    I wonder what’s going though the minds at the USM.

    ***Maybe I should have gone with the not so “void of style” depiction of Liberty****

  56. earthling says

    Well looks like in about 30 minutes you’ll be able to buy 1 oz of Gold in the 225th Anniversary HR @ $1640 – mintage up to 100,000


    You could get 2 BU Jacqueline Kennedy First Spouse 1/2 oz Gold Coins which are about 79 Coins from a sellout. The mintage looks to come in at a shade under 6,700

  57. says


    If you’re running your order numbers for the HR, I have a purchase to make and will do so at 11:59 if you need a baseline #

  58. Baldwin says

    Did anyone else find it off that Rhett Jepsen is on the packaging for the 2017 Congratulations set that was issued in April and he left the mint in January? The packaging also references 2016 and not 2017…

  59. Donald says

    Yeah, the Mint offering a product without stating its sales limit would be a concern. As Cag said, there will be individuals who do know the limit. Such insider information could be shared with a select circle of relatives and friends.

  60. Brad says


    I think it’s because the packaging is printed in advance. Several U.S. Mint products actually have copyright dates from the previous year on the package.

  61. data dave says

    I think the looming 2017 SESPS with an estimated cost of $140 puts a lid on the price of the 2017 Congratulations set for the short term. Still it looks like it is trading solid around $110 right now. If you were willing to go all in and max a credit card for $20K, you could have doubled your money (less after fees and hassle).

    I bought one for myself, no flipping here.

  62. Throckmorton says

    Man! I thought there would be beau coup commentary but all I hear are crickets!

  63. joe#2 says

    What a pity. Image the excitement we would’ve had if only 25k mintage. would’ve been a sellout.

  64. A&L Futures says

    American Liberty 225th Anniversary Gold Coin
    “This product is currently unavailable”

    WTF — over!

  65. cagcrisp says

    With unlimited HHLs, sales numbers are really useless. Supposedly there were only 800 orders that took out 75k.

    Knowing what the Big Boys/Dealers are doing is the question…

  66. cagcrisp says

    There are Insiders that know the sales numbers and you can bet that IF they know the numbers, there will be Outsiders the Mint that will Shortly know the sales numbers…

  67. Joe M. says

    flippity-floppity flop flop.
    I wonder what the year will total. I’ll keep an eye for those stats from the stat guys here. Maybe they’ll announce it’s FAILURE before pulling it and there will be a mad rush for the low mintage chasers and gold bugs.

  68. says

    Well, I’d say between 3,880 and 38,800 have been sold thus far..,

    Personally my money would be on about 9,000

  69. cagcrisp says

    KCSO says there were 3,380 sales orders taken in 15 minutes.

    How does that compare with the 2015 HR?

    In 2015 there were 5,253 sales orders taken in 10 minutes.

    …SO…65% of the orders in a 50% Longer time frame…

  70. A&L Futures says

    They (i.e. the US Mint) placed a “Limited” banner on the coins webpage.

    I can see it know…

    (April 7, 2017) U.S. Mint Press Release: “Only a ‘limited’ number of buyers purchased the American Liberty 225th Anniversary Gold Coin.”

  71. Baldwin says

    The debate to confirm Gorsuch is more interesting than the sells of the 2017 HR coin…

  72. cagcrisp says

    In 2015 The Mint announced there were ~ 30,000 orders in 75 minutes.

    I’ve always thought the Big Boys/Dealers would NOT participate in this design on the scale they did in 2015.

    We will see IF that is the case.

    We will see IF the Mint makes an announcement on Arguably the Most Important Rollout of the Year…

  73. says

    Okay, one more-

    In the first 30 minutes,
    4,319 orders placed

    Split between the 15 and 30 minute mark is 939

  74. cagcrisp says

    @KCSO, from your numbers, Regular Joes are not buying . The Only question remains is how many Big Boys/Dealers Were playing at the open?…

  75. So Krates says

    Versus the 2015 HR, this coin will have an advantage by having a proof finish. However there will be no PL designations to bring crazy money and thus less churn in the numbers from PL hunters.

    @ data dave & cagcrisp – The dollar limit you both mention applies only to buyers who choose to pay by CC.

  76. Donald says

    It looks like a lot of “proceed with caution” mentality is slowing down the sales numbers on the HL, especially on the part of the flippers. No market interest=no flipping.

  77. cagcrisp says

    @KCSO, “Have an average set per order in mind?”

    Factor OUT the Big Boys and Dealers and for Average Joe <1.8…

    (You either like it or you don't)…

  78. Throckmorton says

    I’m happy that it appears to have at least a middling mintage so I won’t be kicking myself later.

  79. Donald says

    My FedEx shipment of the 2017 Congratulations Set is on the truck for delivery this afternoon. I had placed a phone order at the Philly Mint store on Tuesday. In anticipation of this monumental event I have inquired about receiving the “First Arrived Shipment” label from a top grading company. Shortly thereafter, I received a reply that, along with the coins, just send the scanned FedEx delivery time and I’ll be able to get the label. I don’t think I’ll quite get $100 K like the individual who received the first gold Kennedy Half, but who knows?

  80. cagcrisp says

    Here is the Final Guesstimates:

    With the Price of the 2017 HR Liberty @ $1,640.00…Considering what happened Yesterday and what is happening Today…
    Predictions for Launch Day and Launch Week sales for the 2017 HR…

    KCSO-Day 11,500
    KCSO-Week 16,750

    cagcrisp-Day 18,500
    cagcrisp-Week 20,000

    Dustyroads-Day 7,500

    data dave-Day 30,000
    data dave-Week 35,000
    data dave-End of Year 40,000

    earthling-Day 17,000
    earthling-Week 21,000
    earthling-2017 46,000
    earthling-2018 57,000

    Mr. Kairu-Day 21,000
    Mr. Kairu-Week 23,000

    SILKY-Day 5,000
    SILKY-Week 11,000

    Sith-Day 38,000
    Sith-Week 44,000

    sharks2th-Day 9,218
    sharks2th-Week 11,342

    joe#2-Day 27,000
    joe#2-Week 35,000

    Stipey-Day 18,000
    Stipey-Week 21,000

    Mattarch-Day 6,800
    Mattarch-Week 9,760

    Montana John-Day 4,750
    Montana John-Week 7,450

    DBR-Day 7,700
    DBR-Week 18,000

    Joe M.-Day 15,000
    Joe M.-Week 18,000
    Joe M.-2017 20,000
    Joe M.- <23,000 pulled in 2019

    felson-Day 28,000
    felson-Week 31,500

    zephin-Day 20,100
    zephin-Week 22,100
    zephin-2017 28,100

    Old Big Bird-Day 7,500
    Old Big Bird-Week 17,500

    Goat-Day 26,183
    Goat-Week 31,183

    Don-Day 15,250
    Don-Week 21,000
    Don-End Sell 45,000

    JARHEADnFLORIDA-Day 10,000
    JARHEADnFLORIDA-Week 15,000

    Yes, But…You Can't Take It With You-Day 15,000
    Yes, But…You Can't Take It With You-Week 20,000
    Yes, But…You Can't Take It With You-Final 50,000

    Xena-Day 11,500
    Xena-Week 12,700

    Mike in NY-Day 23,500
    Mike in NY-Week 28,100

    Baldwin-Day 17,000
    Baldwin-Week 21,500

  81. A&L Futures says

    Okay, this is a good one.

    I just got off the phone with the U.S. Mint call center (ref: 2017 Congratulation Set — Order status).

    BACKGROUND: I placed two orders with the U.S. Mint (prior to 12:02 PM).


    On the U.S. Mint’s website, USM049854XX has been showing as BACKORDERED since 4/4.

    On the U.S. Mint’s website, USM049852XX has been showing as PROCESSING since 4/4.

    When I called the U.S. Mint’s customer service number, I entered in USM049852XX, and to my surprise…the automated system said it was BACKORDERED too. Yet, the website still shows it as PROCESSING.

    I bring this up, because I’m sure I’m not alone. Customer Service tried to explain why, but she was at a loss.

  82. says

    sharks2th – I’m just converting some prepaid visa cards to gift certs that I had been sitting on 😉

  83. sharks2th says

    @KCSO – That’s good. I hate paying that 4.95 shipping fee, but I’m one of the old ones who was used to free shipping for years.

  84. Louis says

    Any of you buy some Swans- the new Perth Bullion coin? I was lucky to get an e-mail from someone down under on Mon am, quickly signed up for the APMEX alert, and the coins went from $6 over spot or $24 a piece and now are only available on the bay for $60. I just finished a Coin World article on it that will be up by later today or tomorrow. Have some arriving today.

  85. TemplePriestess says

    The 2017 Liberty coin is going for 1,845 to 2,500 on ebay. Some of them graded, some not. Just don’t understand who would purchase the coin for that amount of money.

  86. Goat says

    @ KCSO
    The order #’s you have do they take in consideration (USS and USM #’s) the two different styles gold vs. reg order ?

  87. data dave says

    @cagcrisp – What are the top 5 best first day revenue coins for the US Mint? For instance, yesterday’s Congratulations Set sold 75K at $55 for $4.125M in revenue. If today’s 225th HR gold coin sell 10K at $1640 that is $16.4M in revenue. I think the gold Walking liberty sold around 45K at $890 which would be $40.05M.

    I know you track the gold coins pretty closely and I’m sure they fill up the top 5.

  88. earthling says

    I want one of these HR Coins … if I can get it for free. Just not in the mood to pay than kind of moohlah.

    Got my Gasparro Tokens from the Grove Minting Company. These Proof Tokens look as good as any US Mint product. With the Gasparro obverse they look like a US Mint product.

    Picked them up.at the Post Office at 12 Noon. I was thinking – this is the better deal.

    Don’t know why the SBA was produced over this design.

  89. Mint News Blog says

    MNB-ers, a Coin Update reader posed the following question about the 2017 American Liberty coin: “The $400 premium over spot gold for this ultra high relief 1oz .999 gold coin is the same premium applied to the 2015 Liberty coin. That edition printed 49K for comparison. Not certain what the premium was for the 2009 high relief liberty.”

    I did some digging with respect to the 2009 UHR, but couldn’t pinpoint a number. Here’s what I did find: On January 21, 2009, a blogger named Susan Headey wrote, “The highly anticipated Ultra-High Relief (UHR) Saint-Gaudens will go on sale on Thursday, Jan. 22 at 12:00 noon ET. The price is expected to be $1,189.00 (assuming gold stays between $800 and $850 per ounce. At the time of this writing, gold is at $816.70.)”

    In May and June of 2009, the average p.m. gold price was roughly $950. The 2009 UHR coin, which was available for shipping on June 24, was priced at $1,289. Would that make the premium $350? (I’m not sure how to account for the spot-price range vs. the actual sticker price.)

  90. John Q. Coinage says

    Don Rickles, what a funny cutting edge dude….In Kelly’s Hero’s he even had some acting chops, boy I wi$h he coul ddo a routine on the sclubs running the mint now! Anyway not in the pool but today HR will be about 11,800…. 1 month 18,777……..they will be available for a combo set with the 2019 Moon LAnding coins……

  91. Xena says

    Loius – no joy on the Swans, spent my budget this month on the S & W Mint ASEs. Besides, like the RCM, I can’t chase everything from the Perth Mint. Surprised they went that fast.

  92. cagcrisp says

    @data dave, Launch Day weren’t released Years Ago. ( and Yeah I don’t keep up with much besides Gold)

    OFF the top of my head I would list these 5 Golds in a Top 5 Gold of the past few years on Launch Day Revenue:

    2014 Kennedy $77.3 million
    2015 High Relief Liberty $62.5 million
    2013 Reverse Proof Buffalo $40.8 million
    2016 Walking Liberty Half $40.6 million
    2009 Ultra High Relief Double Eagle $33.5 million

    The price of Gold at Launch makes a Big Difference.

    The $4.20 lower PM Gold Fix yesterday could Easily have cost the US Mint $1.0 million in Revenue Today…

  93. cagcrisp says

    @Mint News Blog, Launch Day sales of 2009 UHL were 28,173 @ $1189.00 = $33.5 million

    At Launch the Premium was $300 to Spot…

  94. cagcrisp says

    You have to remember that since the Mint started using the new Gold charts we have a $50 spread.

    …SO…For me the 2017 HR has a $440.00

    Others could argue that it only has a $390.00 premium…

  95. says

    The Evil precious metals pricing grid was rolled out the 2011 time frame…

    The Evil precious metals pricing grid resulted in 2 results:

    1. Jacked up premiums

    2. A precipitous downward spiral of the Commemorative $5’s sales

    It’s worth a gander to review $5 sales trends in the subsequent years following the pricing grid roll out

  96. says

    My USM049851xx order @ 12:00:20 just shipped,

    So they’re working on getting them out..,

    Before the ASE went CU, I saw a Back Order date of 26 May.., though that really doesn’t mean anything.

  97. says

    I’m Disappointed to hear that some poster’s orders are going to a Back Order status.

    A lengthy and randomly applied Back Order could add a dynamic twist to this release.

    What if Ridiculous Mike, MCM, or Texasge do not receive their 20,000 sets in a timely manner…???

    Hmmmmm…, 🤔

  98. says

    Joe, I hope many change their minds, won’t happen, though wishful thinking.

    There’s just NO rhyme or reason to the Madness in Memphis.

  99. cagcrisp says

    This is an excerpt from The Buzz with Dave Harper from Numismatic News in referencing Today’s HR Launch:

    “It has a face value of $100.
    There is no order limit.
    One person could order the entire supply. But only a Bill Gates or Warren Buffett are likely to have such sums available on a whim.
    The press release offers an insight as to how Mint officials think.
    It is not like coin collectors.
    In fact, it defies logic.
    By allowing the theoretical prospect of one buyer acquiring the entire 100,000 coin supply, the Mint says this:

    “To maximize availability of this historic coin to the public, the Mint is not imposing a household order limit.”

    Anyone wondering why there were no order limits on the Congratulations Set on Tuesday will be happy to know that this is how the Mint thinks it is maximizing availability.

    That’s why groups of 10 Congratulations Sets were being offered on eBay less than 24 hours after the two-minute sellout for double issue price.

    The Mint is maximizing the availability of the set to the public.”

  100. Throckmorton says

    If I may be so bold, why doesn’t the ANA step up and get involved? And I mean involved to the extent that they insist upon tax audits for the senior mint official that are involved in the erratic HHL decisions. Someone is influencing those decisions..

    I can’t see how a no HHL limit benefits the hobby or enhances product dissemination.

  101. Larry says

    Since I don’t collect ASE’s other than the anniversary sets, missing out on this on didn’t bother me too much. But if the mint pulls this kind of garbage with the enhanced set (hopefully they make it) at the end of the year, I will not be a happy camper, no sir!
    On that subject, since the rumor is they will come out with an enhanced set, will they still do the enhanced SAC coin in a coin and currency set as the have done the last few years?

  102. JBK says

    There is no reason to wonder or speculate about the Mint’s reasoning or decision – just send a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request for all records related to the decision on HHL, etc.

    I did this for details on why the Mint skipped over Ford and Nixon for reverse proof dollars. If nothing else it puts them on notice that people are watching….

  103. KCSO says

    Here’s something hilarious- from the mint’s Facebook page

    Cynthia Snow Way beyond my budget…😢
    I will wait for the Silver Edition in June…❤

    United States Mint says –

    United States Mint Cynthia, we encourage you to check our product schedule for the release date. https://catalog.usmint.gov/product-schedule/?view=all

    Another clueless mint employee referring folks to that worthless Product Schedule, geez, what a joke.

  104. joe#2 says

    Oh Ok. Donald. I forgot. I guess when you’re nearing 60, The brain plays tricks on ya. 🙂

  105. KCSO says

    Ah Ha! Breaking News for MNB –

    Here it is..,

    Cynthia Snow
    Cynthia Snow Very gorgeous coin…
    I would love to add this coin to my coin collection, if I can afford it❤️…
    6 · April 1 at 2:46pm

    United States Mint

    United States Mint Cynthia Snow There will be a silver medal version released in June–same design, at an affordable price.
    4 · April 3 at 7:57am

  106. DBR says

    I did not buy the HR USM 225th Anniversary Liberty $100 coin, and I’m not going to either.

    Instead, OT, last week I purchased my regular 2017 W proof ASE, the 2017 Proof Set, and ALL of the Boys Town commemoratives, including the 3-coin set (so I got my gold fix 😉).

    Point of my post: MNB readers, I was not impressed with the proof coins I received in my last order. Lots of smudges, spots, hazy rim areas, and scratches, I even see part of a finger print on the coin! Lol). The gold proof $5 Boys Town commemorative was the exception. I’m keeping these coins because I’m ok with having PF 65-69 coins.

    Exact point: the Uncirculated Boys Town commemoratives (clad half-dollar and silver dollar) were stellar and looked flawless.

    The mirrored surfaces on the Boys Town proof coins appeared to be a challenge for the mint on this batch. Not kidding, the proof coins look like they were struck on dirty, poorly prepared planchets.

    My ASE “W” proof and one of my ATB quarters in the regular 2017 Proof Set were problematic as well. One proof quarter looked pitted in a spot! And stains! Crazy. I felt like I got a bunch of rejects or returns. But I’m going to keep them. With the naked eye the proofs aren’t so bad; just under the loupe.

  107. KCSO says

    One more data point –

    Esteban Dantes Can’t wait for this coin to come out. I’m planning on getting two of them to add to my American Liberty collection. What’s the predicted timeline for the other American Liberty coins? When is the American Liberty silver companion medal coming out?
    1 · April 2 at 12:32am

    United States Mint
    United States Mint Esteban Dantes The silver medal will be released in June. You can sign up to be notified when it becomes available here: https://catalog.usmint.gov/email-signup
    2 · April 3 at 8:44am

  108. Mint News Blog says

    Looks like my next Online Mint Adventure will be in June, then. Somehow, I don’t think it will be quite as exciting as the first one. 🙂

  109. Erik H says

    Louis, I received an email from APMEX about the Swan but opted out based on the fact that APMEX was basically the only dealer selling. To me it seemed like another “dealer only” exclusive.

    I’ve noticed a lot of dealers doing this type of thing and it makes me want to stay away from these hyped up offerings. I suppose if I was rich I could have cornered the market too by buying all the Swans that APMEX was selling (maybe one day).

  110. Dustyroads says


    Only if mintage will be comparable to last years metals releases. It’s my guess that far more will be available this year.

  111. Yes, But...You Can't Take It With You says

    Thinking a bit more about Diana’s USM ordering excitement, it strikes me that all of us experience something akin to slot machines: Lots of bling and glitz , fast action, uncertain payout. Gambling’s finest moment.

  112. Barry says

    @Louis- Thank you for the article on the Swan coin. I picked some up not realizing they would be a hot seller and wish I had bought more. Maybe they will get some more in.

  113. VA Bob says

    As an aside of my earlier comment:

    One is already buying without pre-order mintage knowledge if they buy the annual proof set, uncirculated set, silver proof set, silver ATB quarter sets, three coin ATB set, ATB rolls and Bags, NA dollars rolls and bags, Kennedy halfs rolls and bags, proof ASE (non-special sets), burnished ASE, gold Buffalo, and gold Eagles. Did I miss any?

    I was unaware that some here never buy these because the final mintages are unknown. I guess today is your day, you know how many you can get. Keep chasing those numbers.

  114. VA Bob says

    Also, someone WILL know the end of a run, scheduled or unscheduled, before it occurs and you can bet it will be someone inside the Mint. I know it isn’t fair, but we aren’t part of the collective hive mind yet.

  115. earthling says

    I had fun with the Mint and other sellers over the past month or so. I got cool stuff from Moonlight Mint – thanks to the MNB’ers that clued me in on them. I recently discovered the Grove Minting Company through an article in Coin World. Just got a few items from them today , with another order on the way. Their work is right up there with the US Mint – unbelievable!

    And finally I ordered some cool things from the US Mint thanks to hot tips here on MNB. I got 2016 Silver Proof sets ( a ton of them 😏), need more storage now. And I got in on those 2017 S- SAE’s – which was a real fun time.

    I’m really enjoying Coins again. Keep it coming.

  116. Scott says

    These instant sell-outs are another reason that I quit buying from the mint. Dealers end up getting the majority of these coins and are happy to resell them to collectors at 3-5 times the original price.

  117. Gary Not Dave says

    popping off tomahawks…..1.5 million a piece and we popped off 59 of them….yikes!

  118. DBR says

    The linked article above from MCM had this intro text: “For the first time in U.S. coin history, a U.S. coin shows a portrait of Lady Liberty with the features of an African American woman. This coin is the first in a series released by the U.S. Mint that shows Lady Liberty with many of the ethnicities present in the U.S. Along with this depiction of her as an African-American, Lady Liberty will appear as an Asian-American, Hispanic-American, Indian-American, and more.”

    Okay, that last sentence in the quote changes everything for me in this coming series. Knowing that Lady Liberty will appear in future editions with the visages of these other races and ethnicities, makes the 2017 design not so PC, as some have stated, and that it was part of a long-range intentional design series. Well, hello! For me, now that I know that, I don’t feel so manipulated or force-fed some social engineering propaganda product. Instead I think this coin makes complete sense and now I know why precisely why it was so strongly portrayed as an African-American woman and not just a portrayal of Lady Liberty as “Everywoman.”

    I don’t recall this detail mentioned in this blog or in any of the marketing materials of the USM or in any articles I read about the 2017 HR 225th anniversary of the USM.

    With all the Ladies Liberty lined up in HR after this series is complete, that would indeed be a very handsome collectible series; one that undoubtedly reflects our nation’s ethnic and racial diversity.

    If anyone else can confirm that future Ladies Liberty will include an Asian, Latina, and Native American visage, then I will definitely buy this coin. And even go back and purchase previous HR gold Lady Liberty coins.

    I just need to be fully informed and clued in. Why were we acting all surprised by this year’s obverse? So unnecessary all the spilled ink and rancor. Put into full context, that this is a series to truly showcase our obvious diversity, makes this coin apolitical for me, and therefore more palatable.

    Please forgive me for returning to this previously agonizing topic for some, but that omitted “fact” is significant for this “series” IMHO.

  119. Dustyroads says


    I think these coins could be great, if only some on the CCAC weren’t so bent on them being completely, and I quote, “void of style”.
    I get it. I understand that a depiction of Liberty needs not be flashy, but void of style? That one statement uttered by the CCAC member got us this style-less issue.

  120. earthling says

    I will continue to follow the mantra of ” buy what you like”. If I like it I’ll buy it. Maybe in large multiples, maybe just 1.

    This Ethnic Liberty Series doesn’t sound too appealing at this time. If it turns better in the future I may want to buy something. If I don’t like it , no problem, my money goes elsewhere.

  121. Yes, But...You Can't Take It With You says

    DBR wrote:

    ” ‘Along with this depiction of her as an African-American, Lady Liberty will appear as an Asian-American, Hispanic-American, Indian-American, and more.’

    Put into full context, that this is a series to truly showcase our obvious diversity, makes this coin apolitical for me, and therefore more palatable.”

    All of this emphasis on “Hyphenated-Americans” is hardly apolitical in our current social culture. It is actually quite political and calculated to be as such. It has become divisive and polarizing.

  122. Erik H says

    DBR, the information about the Liberty series was posted here months ago. You might have missed it but most didn’t and they still have issues with it.

  123. data dave says

    Copied from an article about bullion Silver Eagles. It looks like another rarity in the making.
    Philadelphia Mint
    Year Mintage Box #/Identification
    2014 0 N/A
    2015 79,640 Various 5 digits starting with 1
    2016 1,151,500 Various 6 digits starting with 5
    2017 1,000,000 Various 6 digits starting with 5

  124. says

    DBR says, The linked article above from MCM had this intro text.

    Nothing new here, you may want to go back to the mint’s January HR Press Release and read thru it, it talks through their intent.

  125. says

    It appears the finishes on these gold HR Liberty coins could all be different as well, well the first two differ substantially in several respects

  126. KML in KY says

    KCSO – I decided to buy 30 Congrats Sets instead of the gold Liberty. My sets have been on back order for the past few days now. Order # USM049853XX. When the order was completed my computer clock still said 12:00.

    I would kind of like one of the gold Liberties because I plan on getting the silver medals. I hate to spend $400.00 over spot for a coin with a 100,000 thousand mintage so I’m holding off for now.

    I wonder what the Mint will do with HHL’s and mintage on the silver medals.

  127. says

    KML – good luck in getting your sets, no rhyme or reason with Memphis fulfillment, you could off load 12 sets to buy down the gold HR at spot, then have both! 😃 And you know they ain’t selling no 100,000 @ 1,640+

    The ’16 Silver Liberty medal was just a teaser, I suspect you’ll have no issue picking up this year’s silver Liberty.

    Besides, it’s a biennial offering now,
    that changes the dynamics substantially, one would think.

    If there’s a 4 medal set, you’re looking at $140-$160 outlay, increased cost I’m presuming from the 4 different finishes across the 4 different mint marks.

  128. zephin says

    DRB says —“The linked article above from MCM had this intro text: “For the first time in U.S. coin history, a U.S. coin shows a portrait of Lady Liberty with the features of an African American woman. This coin is the first in a series released by the U.S. Mint that shows Lady Liberty with many of the ethnicities present in the U.S. Along with this depiction of her as an African-American, Lady Liberty will appear as an Asian-American, Hispanic-American, Indian-American, and more.”

    My question if anyone can help is…. Are all Lady Liberty coins going to have the “Edge Lettered *225th anniversary*” or just this one??

    Thanks all

  129. Mint News Blog says

    @Yes, But, I was thinking the same thing! My husband is a horse-racing gambler, and I’ve always noted that betting on horses is akin to traditional coin collecting: a lot of quiet time studying paper, scrutinizing the horse/coin for qualities and flaws, a lot of thought and care put into each purchase. Those two minutes in front of the screen on Thursday felt more like being in a casino, at a roulette table or maybe a slot machine — and in fact, the horse-racing business is in direct competition with the casino business, because the younger generations like fast action and aren’t too interested in learning how to read a Racing Form. Many parallels between the two worlds.

  130. Barry says

    OT- For those just wanting an ounce of gold., APMEX on Ebay selling a 1oz gold Krugerrand random year for about 1288 on a credit card.

  131. Mint News Blog says

    @DBR, it’s great that you brought this up. We’ve mentioned it here on MNB, but it’s been a couple of months; I’ll find the link for you. I can confirm that there is every intention of there being a series as you’ve described — but much depends on the success of the first coin. If it tanks, it’s unclear what will happen. The Mint may discontinue the series, or they may switch to a silver-medal-only series.

  132. Brad says

    The 2016 Silver Proof Set is available again this morning with more than 100 in stock, if anyone is interested.

  133. Yes, But...You Can't Take It With You says

    Diana – (On gambling vs. ordering from the Mint): Yes to everything you wrote, not to mention elevated heart rate, sweaty palms, etc. ! Did you take your pulse during those two minutes? 🙂

  134. KCSO says


    Joe M.-Day 15,000, &

    Yes, But…You Can’t Take It With You-Day 15,000

    You two get to co-share the Guestimate Title Champion! 🏆

  135. joe#2 says

    14285???? Worse than i would ever think… Dummies. 25k – 35k would’ve sold this puppy out. Now it will lay around and gather dust.

  136. earthling says

    Remember the 2009 UHR. In a few years this HR will be selling for $5,000.. or $10,000 …. if in the right holder and correct Autograph …and just right toneing.

    Keep up the faith.


  137. Yes, But...You Can't Take It With You says

    KCSO – Can Joe M and I agree to let the week sales be the tie-breaker? Otherwise, we have to cut one of those fine HR gold’s in half to collect our prize. That is the prize that cag is giving out, right? An HR gold? 🙂

  138. Goat says

    Mint News Blog;

    The 2009 high relief liberty was limited to one per household when it was released. The early buyers receive the information book later after the coin were in hand. I stopped following the mint price/coin due too one/HH.. From 2006-2009 was some wild times for PM prices.

    In my notes 2006 AGE (4) coin set first release price for day one was $1354.95/set and in May the were repriced at $1575/set.

    In my notes, 2008 APE (4) coin set first release price for day one was $4122.43/set. October 10, 2008 mint price was $2420/set and November 20, 2008 mint price was $2180/set. Prices falling almost half. I purchased day one knowing what had happened too the 2006 AGE set but as you see by the end of the year could of purchased twice as many. Could not been more wrong gold is gold and platinum is platinum.

    One would have to remember weekly price changes did not happen in the early years on mint offerings. The falling platinum price in 2008, people did not view this as a buying opportunity and reflected the low mintage for the 2008 platinum coins. Another note, mintage numbers were not known (unless you were a insider) weekly as we know today. The mint has made some good changes (price change and mintage numbers/wk.) but one has too think is this what change coin collecting into a short term profit market.

  139. cagcrisp says

    Congrats to Joe M. and Yes, But…You Can’t Take It With You…

    @Yes, But…You Can’t Take It With You, IF I was you I would Settle for the tie…

    First week sales for Joe M. is 18,000
    First week sales for Yes, But…You Can’t Take It With You is 20,000.

    I’m a gambler and I’ll takes the UNDER on 20,000 (Heck I will even take the Under on 18,000)…

  140. cagcrisp says

    Sales are Strong enough that it will Encourage Some to Continue the Series.

    Sales are Strong enough that Unless you get a Bump in Gold they will Never be worth much more than what you paid for them.

    Sales are Weak enough that IF the Mint keeps them around for TWO years they will NEVER get to some predictions for Launch Day Sales.

    Spin it Mint, Spin it.

    Just ANOTHER wasted opportunity by the Mint.

    A 1 oz. 1793 Flowing Hair Gold was have Sold 35,000 on Launch Day.

    A 1793 Would have been fitting for a 225 year Anniversary…

  141. cagcrisp says

    Here was what I posted a Week Ago:

    • cagcrisp says
    March 30, 2017 at 8:31 am

    Random thoughts on the 2017 HR with Launch Day One Week from Today…

    • Like the country in general, the Likes vs. Dislikes are Split
    • The majority that like this coin will Not purchase this coin
    • The majority that can Afford this coin will Not purchase this coin
    • Demographics work Against this coin
    • A failure of the 2017 HR puts the remaining Proposed HRs in jeopardy
    • The Mint is like the Trump administration, it needs a Win
    • You only have One day to get Mintage and HHL’s correct
    • The stated Mintage is 60,000 to High
    • The Final mintage will be determined by how many are Minted in 2017
    • With a mintage of 100,000 this coin will be Pulled by the Mint; it will never sell out
    • With a mintage of 50,000 this coin had a Chance of selling out in Two years
    • The Mint made the Wise decision to have No house hold limits
    • Dealers will Not participate with this coin as much as they did in 2015
    • Foreign buyers will Not participate with this coin as much as they did in 2015
    • Like the 2015 HR, this coin is Not a flippable coin
    • $1,640-$1,690 is a Lot to pay for 1 oz. of Gold when spot Gold is ~ $1,250.00
    • When a person with money meets a person with experience, the person with experience will get the money and the person with money will get an experience; if you Buy you will get an experience
    • I Like the Design of the 2017 HR
    • I think the coin has All the making of a Classical design
    • I purchased 8 of the 2015 HRs
    • I will Not be a purchaser of the 2017 HR

  142. KCSO says

    Haha, Ye But.., you all can have a tie run off! @ 14.285 first days sales, I agree with Cag, I’ll be going with the under..,

    These guys are also still in the running for 1st week sales –

    KCSO-Week 16,750
    DBR-Week 18,000
    Joe M.-Week 18,000
    Old Big Bird-Week 17,500

  143. KCSO says

    2015 High Relief Liberty –

    The Mint announced that the first day sales total was 36,686 coins.

    2017 High Relief Liberty – 14,285.., or 38.7% of 2015.

  144. Yes, But...You Can't Take It With You says

    All right, cag has me convinced: I’ll settle for the tie and accept my half of the prize. Do you need my street address to send me my half of the coin?

  145. Tom says

    I did purchase this coin knowing like everyone else the extra cost. As a collector, not a flipper, I don’t regret it.

  146. cagcrisp says

    I Guarantee 100% payback of Entry Fees. In case of a Tie you will get 50% of Entry Fees.

    There were 25 Entry Fees.

    Here is the Calculations:

    25 Entries x $0 Entry Fee = $0

    50% x $0 = $0…

  147. So Krates says

    Goat – Thanks for the look back. Glad to have you back.

    joe#2 – Those are nice. It’s too bad all the commonwealth countries have their creativity halved by being limited to the reverse. Would’ve been cool to do north and south hemis on one coin. Maybe that’s why Perth and RCM are so prolific- they really have only one canvas per coin, while our coins only require verbiage. Anyway, at spot plus $475 (and 750 mintage) do you expect to have a sentimental or monetary appreciation (or both)?

    I like it – just not the premium. Seems I (and other collectors) might be more likely to disregard high premiums and pay up for what we like on cool silver stuff, e.g. Privateers, Zombucks, Crux, Liberty Medals. Just thinking out loud.. I have not yet gotten in to this segment of the market in any real way and certainly would defer to the more experienced (like Louis), but it looks to be more risk and less reward on the gold side than the silver. When it comes time to sell, unless it’s still hot at the time, it isn’t always easy to find a strong buyer on the high premium modern gold.

  148. Yes, But...You Can't Take It With You says

    Dang… I thought I sent cag a 2016 Silver Medal for my entry fee… maybe I forgot to send this… 🙁

  149. earthling says

    Jacqueline Kennedy 2015 First Spouse Series One-Half Ounce Gold Uncirculated Coin

    74 items remaining – which will sell out first, the Jackie Kennedy’s or the HR Gold?

  150. John Q. Coinage says

    cag I wholly agree a 1793 Flowing Hair AG wold have been great & very popular. The 2017 HR is a new look, but I doubt it will have leg$ in the coin community. IF they can’t sell out 100k 1/2 ‘classic’ WL 1/2, this is destined to be available for yearS. And both 2016 Proof sets are///back! clad & Ag @ mint…….huh?

  151. Throckmorton says

    Just checked my congrats order with the USM ………confirmed at 12:01 but the status remains as backordered. I wonder if I will ever see those puppies.

  152. Louis says

    Coin World says there will be a single silver proof medal in June and then a 4-medal set later, and none will be HR.

  153. Numismatrix says


    I had a split shipment of my order of an S-ASE Congrats set
    with an Effigy 5 Oz ATB. I just rec’d an e-mail saying that the
    S-ASE has also shipped.

  154. Zaz says

    Very good article, Louis, although the Bela Lyon Pratt incuse quarter- and half-eagle is intended to depict a male Native American, not a transgendered lady Liberty as far as I have read about this particular design. The $10 eagle with Liberty head/Indian headdress is yet another Saint Gaudens design. There is a magnificent double eagle pattern that predates the standing Liberty that was eventually adopted. Perhaps you are thinking of the most common coin of the era, which is the long lived Liberty with headdress, aka the “Indian” Head Cent which was ubiquitous at least through the end of WWII. What troubles me about the PC-Liberties is that they are politicized to a degree that complicates an extremely simple message, i.e., freedom, equality and due process for all regardless of race, ethnicity or origin. The original Liberty wasn’t necessarily Caucasian by choice, she was picked as such as a reminder of and to honor where these ideas originated from, namely Ancient Rome and Greece.

  155. says

    @Louis, Nice article!
    Liberty’s cap is a fascinating story in my opinion and I believe would have been most appropriate to be used on the 2017 coin. I find it rather ironic that Thomas Crawford was adamant in his insistence to not include Liberty’s cap for The Statue of Freedom at the same time using slaves in it’s creation.

  156. Louis says

    So as far as a male Liberty on classic issues, the only ones I come up with are the Saint Gaudens $10 design, Bela Pratt $2.50 and $5 gold coins, Buffalo nickel Indian, and the Barber coins. Am I missing any?

  157. joe#2 says

    So Krates.. Our buddy Louis brought that gorgeous coin to my attention when he posted that some time ago, And i love it. I purchased 2 for myself. Anxious to purchase the Northern star when it comes out. I buy because i love it even with the over $400 premium or so.

    Louis? We getting down there pal.

  158. joe#2 says

    Louis? I see Apmex raised to 12 again…lol Little higher premium on the check part from what i see. And, On Amazon raised to 9 again…

  159. joe#2 says

    Louis? I’m wondering how many are really left of these. I know Powercoin has them available as well.

  160. Numismatrix says

    ” Am I missing any? ” – Louis

    Maybe a moot point but both the Barber fractionals
    and the Morgan issues were/are considered epicene
    then and now.

  161. gatortreke says

    Like one of cag’s observations above, I like the Liberty HR coin but I have yet to purchase it. We’ll see if I can swing it later.

    I also like the Southern Sky gold coin linked above by joe#2. It would look great in an enhanced uncirculated silver finish.

    I missed all the commotion and ordering re: the Congratulations set. I wonder what other surprises the mint has in store for us later this year? Definitely will need to pay closer attention and keep up with the blog better, been too busy lately to spend as much time reading this as I’d like.

  162. Erik H says

    Numismatrix, speaking of Barber coinage, I noticed that the French Francs of the mid-1800’s look very similar. I picked a few up a while back because of that.

  163. Larry says

    I was looking at the new HR Liberty coin on MCM. They had the following labels, all NGC:
    First Day of Issue
    Early Release
    First Release
    First Strike
    Seriously? How can anyone except the mint know if a coin is any of these crazy descriptions? This whole label thing is wacky!

  164. earthling says


    I recently found this Token , which is inspired by an old Frank Gasparro design for the Dollar Coin during the late 70’s. The tokens sold out very soon after I stumbled into them, and ordered 4. There are currently Silver versions on sale but no telling how soon those will sell out.

    I took delivery Thursday at the Noon hour, of my Nickel versions , exactly when the new Gold HR’s went on sale. Stunned , was the only way I can describe seeing these things. Now why can’t the current crop of designers/ engravers come up with stuff of this level of artistry?

    At $15.00 I can say this beats everything the Mint is currently putting down our throats.

  165. Zaz says

    Interesting. My order got shipped in two stages, on Wednesday the Boys Town unc clad went out by itself, then today, the three Congratulations 17RF sets. I believe I had the highest order number 49857xx, the last two digits being under 50 (not by much), save one or two other MNB’ers with at least one 49858xx. So theoretically, most everyone’s orders should have been taken out of backorder purgatory, if FIFO rules were followed in Memphis… Ironically, within 2 days of sellout, 16RF is unavailable now as well. Coincidence?

  166. earthling says


    The other day (last night?) I was checking on the status of the 2017 Congratulations Sets and I thought I had hit my lucky day, there were sets listed. I wasted no time and in a flash I loaded 100 sets into my cart- just to try to see how many might be there – of course. Imagine my surprise when there was no message indicating less than 100 available. Mind racing, I realized the Sets that were in my clutches were LAST YEARS Sets – 2016’s ! Oh well, too quick on the trigger, false alarm.

    Any bets the same thing happened to others? Only they didn’t realize their error?

  167. Dustyroads says

    14,285. Glad it was more than I predicted. So now that we know where it began, any ideas of idea about where it where land.

  168. says

    Zaz – WRT “Ironically, within 2 days of sellout, 16RF is unavailable now as well. Coincidence?”

    In the last 96 hours I’ve wondered how many mistakenly ordered the ’16 Congratulations set?

    I almost did it on Tuesday

    When orders are received, I wonder how many are going to be throwing their boxes in the air when they see 2016, instead of 2017, on the packaging?

    You know it’s gonna happen..,

    Yeah, they’ll be some returns coming in

  169. earthling says

    14,285 is a healthy number. But what % were bought by slabber/flippers/pushers? IMHO, Sales will now slow way down to a crawl. Near the end of the run there will be an announced end of sales. If the then mintage is low ( relative to whatever) there might be a big rush of sales. If the Mint pulls a fast one ( imagine that 😮 ) and just abruptly ends it, the mintage might stay low ( relative to whatever 😕).

    I just can’t get over how absolutely stunning my $15 Grove Minting pieces are. If the Mint had used that on this 225th HR, we would probably be looking at a very fast 100,000 Coin sellout.

    They have a Silver Version on sale still but the mintage is very small. They might already be gone.

  170. statequarterguy says

    Here’s a link to file an online complaint with the U.S. Treasury Department Inspector General. You can file anonymously and mint mismanagement is a legit complaint. If they get a bunch of these, they may do something about it.


    Here’s a sample complaint:

    David Motl, Acting Principal Deputy Director
    United States Mint

    I am filing this complaint because of mismanagement (or worse) by David Motl, Acting Principal Deputy Director of the United States Mint. The U.S. Mint under Mr. Motl’s direction repeatedly offers limited edition coins in a manner that allows a few large business interests to monopolize the entire issue. The most recent abuse was an offering for the 2017 Congratulations Set on April 4, 2017 with no ordering limits. This issue sold out in less than two minutes and most collectors were shutout. It appears from aftermarkets sales, a few large dealers bought most of the sets. Please review Mr. Motl’s business practices in order to assure all U.S. Mint customers have a chance to purchase their offerings. Thank You.

  171. Donald says

    Why are the ’16 Congratulations Sets even still for sale? I don’t think most people are still offering belated congratulations to milestone events that occurred in 2016.

  172. Erik H says

    I see buyer fatigue with this series if gold increases like many predict. 14k first day sales maybe high compared to future designs even if future design’s are more appealing. Gold buyers buy low premium gold, collecters collect based on likes and budget. I like the idea of this series but my budget won’t allow me to collect all the gold coins (good thing there is a silver alternative).

  173. So Krates says

    “They have a Silver Version on sale still but the mintage is very small.”

    So is the coin – Only 1/4 oz of silver. Mr. Grove says the higher relief areas (like the cheek) may not completely fill in due to the thinness. Interesting though…

  174. You can't see me says

    That Gasparro work looks like a third grader produced it. Giant step backward.
    We dodged a bullet with that amature design.

  175. Joe M. says

    @ Yes, But…You Can’t Take It With You
    That is a fair way to break the tie 🙂
    I’m game if you are.

  176. Joe M. says

    @ Yes, But…You Can’t Take It With You
    Since you and I are 2,000 off for the weekly sales, it should be close.
    Wouldn’t it be funny if it ends up being close to 19,000 🙂
    Care to take a spread of 200 sales + or – ?
    If it is anywhere between 18,800 and 19,200, will you go for the end of 2017 for the tie???
    I am a gambler 🙂

  177. Yes, But...You Can't Take It With You says

    Joe M.:

    Since this thing has no legs I guess that I should just concede while I have a shred of dignity left. Congrats on your win! Cag will be sending your Big Prize soon, I’m sure. 🙂

  178. Joe M. says

    @Yes, But…You Can’t Take It With You
    Congratulations to you too 🙂
    Now if only I could predict what silver will do… LoL

    Thank you cagcrisp…you can send it airmail 😉

  179. Hidalgo says

    Interesting CoinNews.net article. Having a set of racially and ethnically diverse modern-day Lady Liberties has long been overdue.

    2017 American Liberty Gold Coin Sales Reach 14,285 in First Day

    This year’s coin is the first issue in a biennial series that depicts Liberty in a variety of contemporary forms to include designs representing Asian-Americans, Hispanic-Americans, and Indian-Americans among others.

  180. Erik H says

    Joe M & Yes, But…You Can’t Take It With You…

    Maybe you should use the “Price Is Right” rules, closest without going over.

  181. Texas In 1880 says

    This gold Liberty will probably eventually turn out to be the one that appreciates more due to it’s rarity.

  182. Erik H says

    Hidalgo, after reading the article I think I will use the silver medals as the “success” meter. If the medals at a lower price point don’t sell then yes it will be a big miss for the mint. Also, a biannual release will reduce the burden on gold collectors, that’s a good thing IMO.

  183. Barry says

    To be consistent in their stupidity they should mint only 25k of this years HR liberty in silver with a “S” and “W” version.

  184. gatortreke says

    @Louis: I enjoyed your article on Lady Liberty but have one quibble that should probably be changed if you adapt this into a longer article elsewhere. The following is not accurate:

    Millions of people from other countries, mainly in Europe, arrived here by ship in the late 19th and early 20th centuries and applied for citizenship at nearby Ellis Island.

    Ellis Island was a processing center for immigrants and did not deal with citizenship, that was for the local or Federal courts to handle. When Ellis Island opened in 1892, the rules for citizenship required a 5 year residency (with a few exceptions). An immigrant had to initially file before a court of record a Declaration of Intent (first papers) to become a citizen. Once the Declaration had been filed, the immigrant had to wait 2 years before filing the Petition for Naturalization (second papers). At such time, witnesses testifying to the worthiness of the individual, lack of criminal record, etc… and proof of residency for at least 5 years were needed as well.

    So you can see Ellis Island was a gateway to a life in the U.S. and was the primary means of entry in the late and early 20th centuries but it was not a “citizenship” center. Just wanted to clarify this for the record.

  185. gatortreke says

    Above last paragraph should read “So you can see Ellis Island was a gateway to a life in the U.S. and was the primary means of entry in the late 19th and early 20th centuries but it was not a “citizenship” center. Just wanted to clarify this for the record.”

  186. Larry says

    @ Eric H – see the link below (and everyone else take a look). Some nice pics of the American Liberty Silver Medals taken at the Whitman Expo! You can zoom in for a good look. The reverse proof, as usual, is my favorite. You can’t tell 100% if the edge is reeded or not, but it looks like it is not reeded.
    This should be a really nice set. I don’t think anyone will have bad things to say about this one. Now, let’s just hope all that want one can get one!

  187. Larry says

    There is a picture of four of the silver medals. It looks like they are from the upper left going clockwise: Enhanced Unc (reverse), Rev Proof( obverse), Unc (obverse), Proof (reverse).

  188. KCSO says

    Barry – possibly, though it appears the Silver Liberty Medals will fall out as such:

    June ’17

    P – Proof

    Late-Summer ’17

    S – Proof
    P – Reverse Proof
    W – Enchanced Uncirculated (or whatever the mint calls it this time)
    D – Burnished UNC

    So Barry, probably 25,000 of the P – Proof and 200,000 of the 4-coin set 😉 (That was a joke).

  189. mgm says

    HI all,

    Got my 2017 Congratulations sets today (4/8) in my PO box this morning. Order #USM049849XX. Now I have my four in hand.

    Happy days.

  190. earthling says

    Picked up my 2017 Congratulations Sets at the P.O. today. There happened to be a Coin Expo going on about 3 miles away – so off I went – looking for a good hand-off. ☺

    Well sir, I found out rather quickly that in the game of Coinball you need to have participated in a lot of practice to achieve a winning game. Those who just walk out onto the field are likely to exit on a stretcher.

    As they say, ” No one ever lost money by selling at a profit”. Well I did get profit but not the “post-season ” level l had hoped for.

    This is a rough game, this Coinball. I can do better by going to work and doing the overtime.

  191. Yes, But...You Can't Take It With You says


    Will you tell us how much you got per set?

  192. earthling says

    A pathetic pittance. The fix was on , several dealers told me they had some and sold them for $55.00. Everyone was trying to play funny games. One guy said the price was headed downward and I could not argue the point. He said he was going to wholesale the sets off and he needed to make something also. His offer $75.00 per Coin.

    I looked on Buy Sell Trade on the PCGS Board ,Nothing much there. I decided to just dump and get it over with. So I made about $20 each. Not exactly 0 but nothing to get excited over.

    Normally I would have thrown these in my lockup forever. I guess its good to look into reality once in a while.

    After this I need to rethink my game. Coins aren’t as bad as some things but they aren’t as good as probably a lot of things either.

    Prior to this, my last Coin Show was Baltimore in about 2006. I’ve only been to about 4 Shows in my lifetime.

  193. Yes, But...You Can't Take It With You says


    Thanks for your willingness to share. Yeah, if you aren’t prepared with solid info about price points they will definitely try to work you at the shows. The prices are most assuredly not headed down. Currently on eBay they are trending around $120. Subtract the ripoff fees and shipping costs and you end up making $100 per set, prox. But dealers aren’t eBay…

  194. Yes, But...You Can't Take It With You says

    And – every $20 you made is $20 you can spend at Moonlight Mint!

  195. OneChance says

    I ordered two of these with order #USM049852XX, and it’s showing as BACKORDERED. Not that I need them right away, but I wonder why mine is backordered while “Brad” and “Old Big Bird”, who have the same order number prefix, have had their’s shipped.

  196. earthling says

    The way I look at it , the sets don’t have to be stored forever at my original cost. I got out and took a small profit. And a kind Ohio guy got something to show for traveling up into Hell for a day. This thing where I store lots of my paycheck is getting really old. In a lively up market it would be a different thing.

  197. earthling says

    This little educational exercise has inspired d me to return some Proof Sets I recently ordered also. Turns out they weren’t sold out after all. I not longer see the point of buying and storing stone cold Coins .

  198. Erik H says

    earthling, sounds like you’re more of an investor than a collector. There’s a reason coin collecting is called the “Hobby of Kings”. If I can afford to buy a few extra coins to pay for future purchases I will but I never buy something that I don’t like even if I think that it will make me a few $$.

  199. Erik H says

    Basically, “buy / collect what you like”. Some like cars, others art, wine, shoes, bennie babys, vintage toys, comic books… you just need to find your calling.

  200. Joe M. says

    Is anyone keeping track of sales of the 2017 Congratulations sets like they did for the Coin & Chronicles sets?

  201. Hidalgo says

    @Erik H – now that buyers are receiving their 2017 Congratulations Sets, expect more and more of them to be listed for sale on eBay. The increased supply will most certainly drive down prices. And with time, as interest and demand fades, these coins will be selling for less. After all, 75,000 coins will not make the 2017 S American Silver Eagle rare.

  202. Erik H says

    Hidalgo, I completely agree. After missing the “flash” sale I’m not in any hurry to buy the S Proof. I know there will be an additional 50K coming to the market. I don’t need the coin but I would have flipped it and kept a few if I didn’t miss out.

  203. Erik H says

    The 2011 ASE set had a household limit of 5 and sold out in about 5 hours. The Congratulations Set should have had a 5-10 set household limit too.
    The 2012 & 2013 sets are below issue price in OGP the same will happen to the S Proof unless the mint pulls the LEPS.

  204. cagcrisp says

    @ Joe M. “Is anyone keeping track of sales of the 2017 Congratulations sets like they did for the Coin & Chronicles sets?”

    Nope. I Keep up with Mostly Gold. The C&C’s were an outlier for me.

    The Sales Distribution for the “S” ASE was Unlike Anything we have ever seen (and I mean Ever).

    I expect the Secondary Pricing to follow suit.

    Secondary Pricing will follow the Distribution pattern and be Unlike Anything we have ever seen.

    The Destination End Result will be the same…Just the path will be different…

  205. sharks2th says

    @Eric H – One thing you need to remember with the 2011 set is the failure of the mint’s website to function properly. The only reason that set took 5+ hours to sell out was because the website failed. I sat at my computer and finally got my order through at 445 that day. That was a major fail by the Mint. If the website had worked, the 2011 set would have sold out in 20 minutes or less. At least the website functions a little better today. We did not have to wait 6 hours to know when the 2017S Congratulations set was unavailable.

    My order 52xx shipped late Friday. I think mine was delayed because I ordered some other items in addition to the eagle. It does show the warehouse does NOT ship based on FIFO.

  206. cagcrisp says

    First Spouse Van Buren Liberty coin…

    It has been Speculated that when the dust settles that the Most valuable First Spouse coins will be the Liberty sub set.

    Last night an ICG PR70 Van Buren Liberty Sold at auction with 13 bids. A dealer came in and bought it for $700.00.

    How does this Specific PR70 Liberty compare to the PCGS or NGC price guides?

    PCGS PR70 Van Buren Liberty $1,650.00
    NGC PF70 Van Buren Liberty $1,600.00
    Sale price for an ICG PR70 Van Buren Liberty $700.00 purchased by a Dealer

    Now you can say we are comparing Apples to Oranges. Fair enough.

    How does this Specific PR70 Liberty compare to the PCGS or NGC price guides for a 66?

    PCGS PR66 Van Buren Liberty $925.00
    NGC PF66 Van Buren Liberty $1,075.00
    Sale price for an ICG PR70 Van Buren Liberty $700.00 purchased by a Dealer

    Let’s just say you are a Regular Joe selling on the bay without a store. Sales price of $700.00 (after free shipping) will Net you a little over $600.00

    Current Spot Gold for ½ oz. of Gold would be $626.50

    …SO…You are Netting Less than Spot for an ICG PR70 Liberty

    …SO…when I’ve said time and time again that I have a Standing offer with a friend that purchases “Gold and Silver” that I will pay Spot Gold Less 20% for First Spouse Gold, This is the Reason…

  207. Rick says

    Cag—First Spouse Van Buren Liberty coin…

    I was one of the potential bidders last night. Did you see the pictures of that coin? Will anyone pay pr70 price for a coin in that condition? Why did not you mention quite a few first spouse coins recently sold for >1300? Again, what is your motive for this type of persistent information distortion /manipulation?

    Btw, Jacqueline Kennedy 2015 First Spouse __70 left. According to your smart prediction, bird Johnson proof should still be available at this point.

  208. johnaz says

    anyone know went the mint is going to sent out the backorder 2017-s proof.It look like the order# are all mix up.Its does look like they did not have many ready to ship.

  209. cagcrisp says

    @ Rick. You Asked 4 questions.

    Question #1 and #2: “Did you see the pictures of that coin? Will anyone pay pr70 price for a coin in that condition?”

    Answer #1: I didn’t know that you were a Professional Grader? I didn’t know that you were able to Look at internet pictures and Grade a coin Better than a Professional Grader that had a coin in hand?

    Answer #2: A Dealer was the “anyone”. He paid $700.00. Now You can question his motives for purchasing said coin. Did he #1 Want to Prop up prices for said FS coins because He had said coins in inventory and he is having problems selling said FS coins? OR did he buy said coin because he had a Greater Fool on the hook that he was going to Unload said coin?

    Question #3 “Why did not you mention quite a few first spouse coins recently sold for >1300? “

    Answer #1: I was referring to True Auctions and Not Buy It Now’s for First Spouse coins that have been relisted Time and Time again for months or years Until someone comes along and takes the coin off someone’s hands. This was a True Auction and not a BIN.

    IF you do a simple bay search of Auctions for “gold spouse” over $600.00 and you will get Results for 176 coins sold at Auction.

    You will find that there was ONLY ONE First Spouse coin that Sold for over $1,300.00. One. Not “quite a few” as you say. One.

    You do the same search for prices between $600.00 and $720.00 (Bay sales price less 13% for not having a store and pay pal fees to arrive at a Net Spot Gold price) and you will see that there have been 83 sold.

    …SO… 1 coin Sold at Auction for Over $1,300.00

    …And…83 coins Sold at Auction for Basically Net Spot Gold or Less.

    …SO…Selling a First Spouse coin resulted in 1 out of 176 Selling at Auction for over $1,300.00; That’s Less than 6 chances in a 1,000

    …SO…Selling a First Spouse coin resulted in 83 out of 176 Selling at Auction for Basically Net Spot Gold or Less; That’s More than 47 chances out of 100

    …SO…I will ask You your Question #4: “Again, what is your motive for this type of persistent information distortion /manipulation?”…

  210. Baldwin says

    Hidalgo… the way I read that article must have been different than what you read? CW said the mint is trying to determine the quantity of coins it has after returns and cancellations, and may open sales back up. I don’t read that as saying the mint plans on making anymore coins than the 75,000 originally announced.

  211. Rick says

    Cag, thanks for your overreaction. So you think that bin prices reveal little information about market trend. Let me tell you that most dealer to dealer transactions are essentially bin/ with best offers. Because most dealer to dealer transaction are private, Let me give you a recent example of a public dealer-to -dealer transaction with a first spouse coin sold at $2050. I hope that you agree with me that both parties in this transaction are dealers with decent knowledge about the fs coins.


    The really problem is that your attitude toward fs coins is self-contradictory. You spent a lot of time and energy here bashing the fs coins. However, you and your buddy are paying very close attention to their sales number (sometimes even on a daily basis) and their price action on secondary market. To me, that is a very reliable indication of strong incentives to manipulate others’ perceptions by distorting Information.

    Btw, just bought a few bird johnson uncirculated spouse coins. Will buy more Betty ford coins in the next few weeks. Again, thanks for your overreaction.

  212. cagcrisp says

    @Rick, As I’ve said above about Dealer Purchases “Now You can question his motives for purchasing said coin. Did he #1 Want to Prop up prices for said FS coins because He had said coins in inventory and he is having problems selling said FS coins? OR did he buy said coin because he had a Greater Fool on the hook that he was going to Unload said coin?”

    Showing a Link to a Dealer to Dealer transaction is a non-starter for me.

    Asking a Dealer what a coin is worth is like asking a car salesman what a car is worth as a trade in and going back 2 weeks later and seeing what that trade in is selling for…

  213. Rick says

    Cag, the greater fool story you used is essentially applicable to any numismatic coins, modern or classic. After all, coins do not generate cash flows as most stocks do. I pay more attention to dealer-to-dealer transactions vis-a-vis retail transactions because they often reveal more unbiased market information.

    Finally, I hope that you will find some “greater fools” when you decide to unload your classic coins in the future. Unfortunately, I suspect that it will be a uphill battle. Good luck. ..

  214. cagcrisp says

    @Rick, I don’t sell coins so that will never be a problem.

    I did receive a nice note this week from an retired Editor of the Largest Newspaper in Arkansas thanking me for a Civil War coin that I recently gave him.

    He has an internet blog about the Civil War and I thought since he puts in his ” 2 cents worth” sometimes that he would actually like a nice 2 cent piece and sometime he will probably write about the origin of In God we Trust…

  215. Rick says

    @Rick, I don’t sell coins so that will never be a problem.

    Oh, now I understand why many of your market observations and predictions are often off the mark. Thanks for the clarification.

  216. DBR says

    I am by no means an expert in numismatics so I can’t analyze trends as well as others here. I’ve enjoyed the discussion about the FS coins and the series. I think if more girls and women (wealthy ones that is) started coin collecting then they might appreciate the contribution of the FS series to American coinage. It’s is definitely a wealthy collector’s type of coin.

    I still don’t know why the Presidential $1 coin series never merited a more noble metal then the golden-looking zinc manganese clad varieties.

    I do collect the Presidential series and am done with the uncirculated sets. Now, on to the Proofs.

    My wish: before they destroyed all the dies for the Presidential coins that they’d strike a final limited edition variety of each in white gold (to distinguish it from its more yellow zinc manganese counterparts). I would have liked that very much., and think it worthy of collecting and the office of the President.

  217. earthling says

    Eric H

    I think of myself as more of a Collector than Investor. True I do buy extras in the hope of “cashing in” but in reality I rarely do “cash in”. Mostly I just sit on my “Treasure” and dream of an increase in value.

    When I first got back into Coins in 1999 , it wasn’t too long before I tried selling a few things on ebay. I remember selling a few Proof Sets and Bags of State Quarters. Back then you could buy a Proof Set for maybe $18 (from the Mint) and after the dust settled you might sell it for $80 ( I don’t remember the exact amounts, but I’m giving ball park figures). I was so thrilled with a profit I would throw in extras for free. For instance if I sold a 99 Silver Proof Set for $90, I’d throw in a 99 Clad Quarters Proof Set. My Coins were not picked over and they were in flawless condition. I wasn’t needing the money, I had a job on the Assembly line with my current employer. I just did the buying and a very little selling as a hobby.

    I look at the Money I’ve spent with the US Mint and it’s a ridiculously high amount. With the reality based selling of my 2017 Congratulations Coins, I think a change is way past due.

  218. Joe M. says

    @ cagcrisp
    You gave away a civil war coin, but put my coin in a cloud???
    I guess I’ll have to get in my helicopter and go look for it before it falls into someone else’s backyard.

  219. Texas In 1880 says

    I wouldn’t hope much for gold falling out of those clouds, but you might be able to find some Bitcoin up there.

  220. cagcrisp says

    @Joe M. It wasn’t the best coin in the world. It was a good give away coin to someone that doesn’t do coins. The difference between a good 2 cent piece and an average 2 cent piece is about $50.

    The “We” in “In God We Trust” is the key to a 2 cent piece.

    This coin had a Very weak “We”…

  221. So Krates says

    cagcrisp – Do you still track the C&Cs? If so I’d like to hear the current trends…if not I’d like to hear your last data points. I am starting to offload a few (better late than never). From the last greater fool I met, I was able to get $245 for Harry, $125 for Ike, and $75 for Ronnie (he didn’t want my JFK or Johnson, lol).

  222. So Krates says

    I vote for Numismatrix for The Word of the Thread award for epicene . Nicely done.

  223. cagcrisp says

    @ So Krates, Old Old data points…

    This was through some time in November 2016…

    Truman vs. Eisenhower vs. Johnson

    I’ve tracked the Truman’s since 08/02/15. Total bay Sales for the Truman’s in OGP are 1,419…

    1st 62 Sold Averaged $201.00
    Next 59 Sold Averaged $204.81
    Next 59 Sold Averaged $205.93
    Next 59 Sold Averaged $192.91
    Next 59 Sold Averaged $193.37
    Next 59 Sold Averaged $193.64
    Next 59 Sold Averaged $195.57
    Next 59 Sold Averaged $214.75
    Next 59 Sold Averaged $225.36
    Next 59 Sold Averaged $222.94
    Next 59 Sold Averaged $237.11
    Next 59 Sold Averaged $243.05
    Next 59 Sold Averaged $240.99
    Next 59 Sold Averaged $245.65
    Next 59 Sold Averaged $260.90
    Next 59 Sold Averaged $215.29
    Next 59 Sold Averaged $206.12
    Next 59 Sold Averaged $213.72
    Next 59 Sold Averaged $254.52
    Next 59 Sold Averaged $260.89
    Next 59 Sold Averaged $264.05
    Next 59 Sold Averaged $280.21
    Next 59 Sold Averaged $261.37
    Next 59 Sold Averaged $262.21

    I’ve tracked the Eisenhower’s since 08/17/15. Total bay Sales for Eisenhower in OGP are 3,335…

    1st 215 Sold Averaged $206.68
    Next 208 Sold Averaged $190.01
    Next 208 Sold Averaged $181.08
    Next 208 Sold Averaged $169.49
    Next 208 Sold Averaged $165.77
    Next 208 Sold Averaged $164.73
    Next 208 Sold Averaged $160.19
    Next 208 Sold Averaged $153.62
    Next 208 Sold Averaged $159.39
    Next 208 Sold Averaged $156.52
    Next 208 Sold Averaged $152.27
    Next 208 Sold Averaged $124.68
    Next 208 Sold Averaged $109.95
    Next 208 Sold Averaged $88.86
    Next 208 Sold Averaged $95.78
    Last 208 Sold Averaged $87.40

    I’ve tracked the Johnson’s since 10/27/15. Total bay Sales for the Johnson in OGP are 2,100…

    1st 150 Sold Averaged $96.79
    Next 150 Sold Averaged $94.92
    Next 150 Sold Averaged $87.71
    Next 150 Sold Averaged $81.82
    Next 150 Sold Averaged $78.00
    Next 150 Sold Averaged $72.00
    Next 150 Sold Averaged $73.20
    Next 150 Sold Averaged $72.21
    Next 150 Sold Averaged $70.87
    Next 150 Sold Averaged $72.18
    Next 150 Sold Averaged $70.74
    Next 150 Sold Averaged $70.88
    Nest 150 Sold Averaged $71.45
    Next 150 Sold Averaged $67.93

  224. Yes, But...You Can't Take It With You says

    Yeah, I had to look up epicene. Can’t even recall hearing the word before. Thanks, Numismatrix, for stretching our vocabulary!

  225. MarkInFlorida says

    Thanks can, and thanks KS for asking, I was wondering about those C&C sets and was planning to ask myself. Truman is still doing nicely, but the others tanked. Glad the HHL was 5 for Truman and lower for the others!

  226. Numismatrix says

    😉 It was unintentional – I can’t say that the Morgan’s and Barber’s are favorites
    but they do stir interest. I believe the Morgans were minted at the most
    facilities of any US coin, i.e. [P], S, CC, O, and D (five total). The Barber
    fractionals were minted at the same excluding CC, and I’ve often wondered
    about the reason, since 1892/1893 were overlapping years. Correct me
    if I am mistaken.

  227. Dave SW FL says

    Well, someone really wanted one of those Grove Minting 1977 Frank Gasparro Liberty Dollar Pattern commemoratives in nickel….the last one just sold on the bay for $59 +$2.85 shipping.
    Not bad for an item that was available for $15 from the originator!
    I got a few in silver. Still available in silver if anyone is interested.

  228. Joe M. says

    @Texas in 1880…bitcoin…yea, in the clouds…101000011101000101001010 = 0
    @cagcrisp…I cherrypicked an 1864 sm motto from a junk box in 1997…maybe the dealer only looked at the WE, saw it wasn’t there, noticed the damage, then threw it with all the other “junk”.
    I’ve been cherrypicking since 1995 🙂

  229. So Krates says

    A pathetic pittance.

    $20 profit on $55 is 36%. That’s not a bad overnight return on a modern issue. They can’t all be baseballs

    You made $300 for 1 minute online, a few minutes at the PO, and an hour looking for a buyer? Shoulda bought 150 instead of 15 🙂

  230. Numismatrix says

    Thanks ! I do have a soft spot for CC issues but the wallet is
    always on the light side. Well, back to the guitar.

  231. earthling says

    “You made $300 for 1 minute online, a few minutes at the PO, and an hour looking for a buyer? Shoulda bought 150 instead of 15 ”

    Right you are there So Krates. Was Diana the one that related the Mint Buying experience to Slots Gambling? With this release by the Mint there were too many unknowns – unlimited mintage of this particular issue, unlimited “limited” products in the future , a market in general retreat…………..

    Since I almost passed this thing entirely , I suppose a $300 profit wasn’t too bad. But I skipped OT at work today and $300 is but a pittance to the money I left there. If I wanted to totally surrender my life , my job could be a Gold Mine. BUT… isn’t there always a but? But my job sucks wind. I’m seriously wanting to retire after this fall . I used to be in a Bachelors program in Mechanical Engineering , attaining Junior status at NCSU before dropping out. I got an Associates in Computer Engineering. I read mechanical things better than the English Language. My job involves working with Industrial Robots yet I cant get training or even Literature so I can train myself to be more advanced. The job is without challenge or opportunity to become better. Yet our plant is not running most of the time. This is AMERICAN INDUSTRY at the International Level yet its run like an amateur backyard operation… by incompetent idiots.

    I’ve worked at Factory type jobs all my life and have witnessed the American Worker and management for a long time. When Trump came along saying he’s going to ” make America great again” , I said Thank You Jesus!

    At the same time I was thinking – Good Luck Buddy , this mess is too far gone to ever be “great again”. The World caught us a good 40 years ago, we’ve been eating dust ever since then.

  232. Mint News Blog says

    My bank account’s been pinged for the shipping on my Congratulations Set order, but not for the product. My purchase is still showing as “backordered” on the Mint’s website, but perhaps it’s beginning to make its way through the system.

    By the way, earthling, do you follow Mike Rowe at all? I’m a white-collar geek with a graduate degree, but at heart I’m a blue-collar girl with a farming pedigree. I’m a big fan of Rowe’s efforts to educate the American public about good, six-figure jobs in the trades. (http://profoundlydisconnected.com/) You might find him interesting, too.

  233. Sith says

    @earthling – American management generally sucks. As far as I can tell the USA still can’t implement the most basic total quality management (TQM) program(s.) All because short term profit overrides, long term goals. TQM has been successfully implemented in Japan for decades. Yes I’m sure they are a few “haters” that will bad mouth TQM, but every-time I asked what they hated about it, it turned out they were describing Management by objectives (MBO). The only thing I can say is as inefficient as we may be, we are more efficient than most of our competition, IE the Chinese, and the European Union, are worst than us. Japan maybe more efficient but they have other problems, like a lack of natural resources.

    Trump has gone after H1B visa abusers, which is a welcome relief in my line of work, but saying that I’m not sure why you though Trump would be able to fix our manufacturing sector, not without causing a trade war or God forbid a shooting war.

    The solution to make America great again is simple, and one that people have made fun of me, when I mention it. When you go buy a gadget ignore the less expensively foreigner made gadget, and buy the more expensively made in USA gadget, and hope your expectations of quality are met by paying more for it. They most likely will not meet those expectations.Please reread the second sentence of this post, on why I feel they will not be met.

  234. earthling says

    Diana, I’ve checked out Mike Rowes site and it looks like someplace I’m definitely going to spend a lot of time with. I’ve been on 2nd shift most of my life so I’m not really into regular TV fandom but I have seen a few episodes of Mike Rowes show. I liked his style, very entertaining! Oh, and your comment ”
    I’m a white-collar geek with a graduate degree, but at heart I’m a blue-collar girl with a farming pedigree. ” makes you 110% OK in my book. I grew up next to the Amish Community in Dover DE and feel like Farming is my background. I even attended an Amish 2 room school from grades 1-3.


    My problem with America becoming ” great again ” isn’t completely a knock on management although that certainly is a part of it. I’ve seen the push on the Japanese Quality Programs and I agree completely with the goals – we do need to get better. My main problem is the American Worker. Most workers are lazy, have no pride, and don’t really like to even move their bodies. I had an old supervisor at a Vegetable Processing Plant about 28 years ago who said this , ” If a person wants to work they will work, if they don’t want to work then you can pay them $100/hr and they still won’t want to work”. Yeah they will take the money but money doesn’t really change our basic nature. You either like to work or you don’t.

    I like to work despite not really liking my present job. I like to learn and do complicated things. I really enjoy troubleshooting things and fixing them. I don’t like sitting for long periods of time , watching a computer screen for red blips and doing very routine things like going to push a few buttons. I guess I’m a bit overqualified for my present job as an Auto Industry” Skilled Tradesman” but the money is just too good to walk away from. With Robots, I feel like the skies the limit on knowledge and ability yet I feel like I’m being confined to some sensory deprivation chamber in my current job. It makes no sense to me.

    I guess that’s just the result of the UAW and their philosophy of having 100 bodies instead of a few good motivated people.

  235. So Krates says

    earthling – Good post. You are getting to the heart of the matter It’s more than mgmt and production QC it’s personal QC. Speak well, write well, act well. Personal pride as you said. I was just reading the pamphlet in the Truman set and it speaks about the sign on his desk that read The Buck Stops Here. Our society needs folks with more personal integrity and a sense of responsibility. I don’t want workers committing suicide for failures at work as in some cultures, but we would benefit from a move in that direction.

    As you said it’s been 40 years. This is from 1986 and is just as relevant today


  236. joe#2 says

    Louis? Good news on the 2017 Australia gold domed Southern Sky coin. Prices going up on APMEX. 🙂

  237. cagcrisp says


    @earthling, At one point today, the market cap of TESLA surpassed GM today.

    …SO…By market cap, TESLA was momentarily the #1 car maker in the United States.

    (TESLA surpassed Ford a few weeks ago)…

  238. Sith says

    @earthling- Hear, hear! All I can say is at least for my generation, its hard to have pride when your treated like an expendable commodity. The easiest way for a large corporation to make its number is to cut personnel, even if they still need those people. One company in my area was notorious for cutting entire divisions at Xmas. Just so they could make their numbers, and get their bonuses, of course. Then they would scramble, and to try to hire the very same people back in January. In two separate instances, I saw a company fire their entire sales force, among other cuts because they were making too much money, and just in case you wondered how that turned out, well both company folded, because for some strange reason, the sales dried up.

  239. Texas In 1880 says

    Wow, a farmer at heart. Everything is a lush, dark green and filling in here. Yes, you would love farming. A cousin of mine lost his life to cancer a little over 10 years ago. He asked his wife to turn the farm over to another cousin of mine, but….she decoded to continue farming on her own. Of course she has plenty of good help, one would need it for the several thousand acres she maintains. I personally believe everyone should own enough good land to be supportive of their own needs.

  240. Numismatrix says

    Your’s truly is an organic produce farmer; in a small plot,
    on the side. I grow an assortment of vegetables, fruit, and
    herbs. It’s nice waking up on a Sunday morning, and picking
    up fresh herbs for the omelet, or harvesting cabbage and
    potatoes for a hearty soup. Someday I hope to get into
    small animals too. Cheers !

  241. earthling says

    It’s like deja vue all over again at work today. I get to work at 3PM, line rolls at 4:30 PM. Well the day guy tells me they were down a couple hours due to a broken bracket on my Sealer Robot #2. He sez they got it fixed OK. Well the line never did start up at 4:30 , at 4:50 I get a red blip from Robot 2 and it’s down. Broken bracket again. Well we’re running now … but for how long?

    Oh well, it’s a job.

  242. earthling says

    What really sucks about this job is that I have no hand in most breakdowns. Millwrights just took care of the broken bracket. I heard talk about it breaking repeatedly over the last 5 years. Well hopefully it won’t break again for a few days.

    Fingers are crossed.

  243. gatortreke says

    I’m somewhat undecided on whether the desire to work is something we are born with or something ingrained in us as we are raised. I’m more inclined toward the former, believing there’s a certain percentage that are born with the desire, a large percentage who do it but only because they have to and then a smaller percentage who work hard at not working. I don’t think this is something endemic to just Americans, rather it is part of human nature. I lived in France for a year and the percentages seemed to hold true there though their system seems to increase the numbers in the “working hard at not working” category. I’m of the mindset that the Pareto Principle holds true in this case.

    I’m not saying that you can’t encourage and create an environment that increases productivity and enthusiasm at every level depending on proper incentives but it is something that few businesses, government agencies, etc… actually get right.

    I remember when TQM was being instituted at my employer back in the early 1990’s and the problem I had with much of it was that I had little faith that those who were implementing the plan actually believed in it. They were doing it only because the plan was rolling downhill from further up the food chain. There was very little buy in from the mid-level managers and thus even less buy in from the standard worker.

  244. Louis says

    Seems I am have stumbled onto a blog about work in the 21st century. Must have taken a wrong turn somewhere. If I had a nickel for every time I could say that!

    @joe #2- Thanks, buddy. Last 4 left! Let the good times roll!

    Got my congrats coins. Very nice coins as expected from SF mint.

    Also got 2 of those silver Gasparos, but I did not go down to pick them up yet. The nickel ones did so well, so I figured why not.

  245. Zaz says

    On the topic of work, my 2c cents worth, I got through my 25 years at a nationally reknowned telecom company, had something like 16 different jobs from customer call center to pulling lines and installations. Some jobs were really boring, some I was good at, but when my 25th annie rolled around, I took the more than generous compensation package and ran. Ironically if I had waited another four months I would’ve lost out on 1/2 of the formerly “free” health benefits. Now I work part time in hospitality selling beer and dogs at the local MLB ballpark as a runner. Tips are good, fans are fun to talk to, I get my exercise. It is so much fun, I’d actually considering paying to work or volunteer for free. Bottom line, you gotta find something you enjoy or love doing otherwise work is rather meaningless other than for that bi-weekly paycheck that doesn’t seem to stretch far enough. 25 years in the rat race was enough for me…

  246. Texas In 1880 says

    Got my Congratulations Sets too, once again they were all bouncing around in an over sized boxed with nothing more than one sheet of bubble wrap thrown on top.
    Something tells me the advice I gave in the last questionnaire did not make it to corporate.

    I would be willing to bet that you like your job more than you say.


  247. Sith says

    @gatortreke – That was because TQM would have eliminated a lot of middle management positions. Anyway the latest management technique we are learning is called Lean. Lean is just TQM light, as such its more palatable to management, but I see the same issues with Lean, that I saw with TQM. Management would rather form a “tiger team,” than just listen to the worker bees.

  248. So Krates says

    The French have the right attitude with putting a limit on the hours worked and mandatory vacations. We were not meant to loaf about, but we were not put here to work 80 hour weeks in concrete towers, cubicles or coal mines either.

    In a pre/post monetary world, 2-4 hours work per day with one sabbath day per week would suit the average human just about right. IMO, 15-25 hour work weeks are best for mental and physical well being.

  249. So Krates says

    Still waiting for mines to come off B.O. Had my order number before 12:01, but like Diana, had a few second delay fumbling with the security code, and that’s all it took to separate the Haves and the Waiting to Haves.

    Wasted five minutes of my life inquiring with customer service as to why no projected date like usual on the BO status but of course only got the stock answer of “it will ship as soon as available”.

    Related to the work ethic and personal pride, the robot rep. read my full order back and each time she spoke a dollar amount she dropped the “s” in cents. The young woman proceeded to tell me each RF17 was fifty-four dollars and ninety-five cent and the shipping was four dollars and ninety-five cent . You would think that if the employment screening could not weed out speakers of Ebonics, than maybe the training could deal with this issue. After all it’s the Mint and they actual sell cent(s). It irritated me so much that I almost axed for a supervisor. 😉

  250. Yes, But...You Can't Take It With You says

    I’m LOL, So Krates.

    I have not wanted to bring it up before but since everyone is throwing down about work ethics: It has struck me that the shipping out of Memphis suffers from a lack of pride in doing things well. And in Philadelphia/DC I suspect that things are run more by the “politics of management” than from a desire to do the best job possible. I also suspect that some of this is due to hiring practices that are quota/affirmative action based, rather than hiring the best peeps possible, period. It’s just a suspicion…

  251. Texas In 1880 says

    “In a pre/post monetary world”

    Just imagine living during the stone age as hunters/gathers. Suddenly work as we know it doesn’t sound so bad.

  252. cagcrisp says

    Quote from a CoinWeek article about the 2017 High Relief Liberty:

    “Not that the inhibitive price–which reflects the spot price of gold on the open market and is calculated according to the Mint’s pricing grid for gold and platinum products–will stay the same. After May 6 the initial pricing discount expires and the full retail price of $1,690 goes into effect.”

    Either the article is wrong or I’m wrong. I’ve never heard of an “initial pricing discount” for the High Relief…

  253. Tom says

    @ can’t take it with you. Your comment about Memphis. Last April, my order for the Gold Mercury dimes were delivered with shipping box wrapped in plastic . It was obvious something was wet. I opened it in front of the po. clerk and Inside I had a WET mess. Post office thought something had been leaking from inside as well. Memphis had wrapped it up and marked it.

  254. Texas In 1880 says

    I don’t see any statement made by the USM about this anywhere, other than for Commemorative programs. I guess anything’s possible.

  255. Baldwin says

    Other than commemoratives… I haven’t seen an initial price statement before either.

  256. KCSO says

    Cag – Yeah, I saw that article last week and it is misleading, the author was assuming the price would go up due to an anticipated pricing grid increase when gold was above $1,250.., that didn’t happen, though might this week. So yes, poor choose of words.

    Nice pop in Gold at the moment.., Dow down but not in spiral wil UAL

  257. achmed says

    I am missing a statement of the usmint on their website when the ASE S proofs 2017 that are currently on backorder status will be delivered. At least a window for delivery should be possible. It is just a poor customerservice there.

  258. Throckmorton says

    I am missing a statement of the usmint on their website when the ASE S proofs 2017 that are currently on backorder status will be delivered. At least a window for delivery should be possible. It is just a poor customerservice there.

    I’m betting that the larger orders have priority over the small orders. There seem to be several of us that had confirmed orders of 12:01 that are on backorder

  259. A&L Futures says

    @ Throckmorton et al.,

    I placed a rather significant order for these on 4/4/17 @ 12:00:36. My order was showing as PROCESSING since, but all that changed this morning. My order now shows as BACKORDERED. (UGH)

    How can 75,000 units disappear in less than a minute? (GRRRRRRR)

  260. JBK says

    I am also on BO. I thought I did really well, banging in an order for 2 at the opening bell, but the fact that mine has not shipped yet is a sign of how close I came to being shut out.

  261. achmed says

    may be when the big boys send their Pr69 coins back to the mint we will get our orders fulfilled. Have a look at PCE on ebay. They have 100 (!) PR70 for sale. How many must they have bought to be sure to have 100 coins in PR70???

  262. sharks2th says

    I think there needs to be an article here on the POOR packaging practices of the Mint’s shipper. I received my order from last week today and I’ve never seem such a jumbled mess. I ordered some other products at the same time and my order came in two boxes (with a lot of excess space in both boxes). One box had proof sets facing all directions. I took a pic of the opened box and how the products were thrown about. It looks like someone just shook the box for hours on end. Back with the old shipper I once had them double box an order with a large outer box and two smaller internal boxes. That was the best packed box I have ever received from the mint.

    I think my order was delayed because I ordered other items at the same time. My order shipped Friday. My checkout time was 12:00:50. I know I saw order numbers here after my number which were shipped out before my order. I do select the standard ($4.95) shipping, which may affect some of the order processing. They obviously are not on a FIFO system.

    I am pleased with the quality of the S eagles.

  263. Tinto says

    “I think there needs to be an article here on the POOR packaging practices of the Mint’s shipper. ”

    Totally agree .. perhaps with some pics of the shoddy “packaging”

  264. Mount Airy Dave says

    I received 2 AE S yesterday that were on back order. They shipped 5 days ago. Got my 225th anniversary coin today.

  265. earthling says

    I got my Silver Gasparro commemorative Tokens from Grove Minting today. I ordered 5 and can’t see anything wrong with any of them. Can’t wait to compare them to my Nickel metal versions which are at work in my Tool Box. I suppose they were differ like Proof Ikes do, the Silver one’s are whitish.

    The 2016 Platinum Proof was the last US Mint Products that impressed me as much as this $20 item from Grove Mint. Comparing cost and mintages makes the Grove Mint Product seem like a givaway.


  266. earthling says

    Just checked Grove Mint and they’re sold out of the Silver Gasparro’s. The mintage was 250, I’m surprised they lasted as long as they did.

  267. KCSO says

    “I think there needs to be an article here on the POOR packaging practices of the Mint’s shipper. ”

    Totally agree .. perhaps with some pics of the shoddy “packaging”

    AND of other interesting stories..,

    Just this week.., my 2 Boys Town Silver $1 coins (ordered with my 2nd order of Congrats Ses) showed and low and behold, I received 1 Proof set, and 1 Silver AtB Quarter Set.., which I just sent off for replacement today.

    Now why couldn’t my order have gotten mixed up with the guy or gal that had ordered a Proof AGE and a HR Liberty????

    There is NO FIFO practice at the mint.

    On the Congratulations Sets – My xx1xx order arrived over the weekend; my xx8xx order with the Boys Town coins arrives on Thursday. By ALL MEASURE, my second order no doubtedly should be in Back Order purgatory. Go figure.., there’s no rhyme or reason…

  268. Baldwin says

    KCSO…based on this product distribution… I think we can all firmly place the FIFO story by the mint in the round file. I have seen many who ordered more or fewer than I ordered… shipped and with order numbers much higher than my order. I’ve seen many post the same thing… their orders were done and the order numbers lower than many who have reported shipped product.

  269. Old Big Bird says

    @cagcrisp – I know you track many items that the USM sales report. Isn’t today report late coming out?

  270. cagcrisp says

    @Old Big Bird, I’m Not looking forward to numbers coming out.

    I’m Concerned that KCSO will Win the Closest to the Launch Week sales numbers.

    (I would hate for that too happen)…

  271. Yes, But...You Can't Take It With You says

    old sailor bill-

    I would love to have that “2017 proof ms70” for $199.95 because then I could turn around and sell it for Big Buck$ as a slab labeling error! (A proof coin can’t be “ms”…) 🙂

  272. says

    Cag, nice! Yeah, I’d hate for that too..!

    If my dumbbutt had left my original Guesstimate for 1st Day Sales at 14,500 as I should, then the actual First Day Sales of 14,285 would have won me the Virtual Cloud 🏆

    My life is not complete without it!

    I hope they hurry up, I want to A LOT of sales numbers, this is a Big week!

  273. says

    I’m very curious to see how many of the 75,000 ’17 Congratulations Sets were sold in 120 seconds..,

    I know there were less than 1,000 orders.., probably in the ‘hood of 900 to 950 orders placed

  274. cagcrisp says

    @KCSO, “I hope they hurry up, I want to A LOT of sales numbers, this is a Big week!”

    IF you’re in such a Big Hurry, Just give me the Item you want to see and I’ll make a sales number up…

    (IF it’s a FS?, I bet I get within 5)…

  275. Keep Calm & Stack On says

    Haha.., let’s make it BT $5 UNC.., something you’ll get within 10 of…

  276. Keep Calm & Stack On says

    Just FYI – for those that collect Privy’s and a fan of the Call of the Wild series.., JMB has the 4th release out – Bullwinkle da Moose.., looks alright. The 5th release is in 2018.., so that means November ’17 with an Antelope, followed by a Wood Bison, and then dun.

  277. Keep Calm & Stack On says

    “Let’s make it a $20 Gold piece from cc..” – what Joe M wins????

    MCM has for your consideration at a grand offering price for a 2017 – S Mercanti signed American Silver Eagle PR 70 for only $295! Get yours while they’re still some available!

    Not! Good grief, that’s insane, is that where this thing is headed?

  278. cagcrisp says

    @KCSO, “If my dumbbutt had left my original Guesstimate for 1st Day Sales at 14,500 as I should, then the actual First Day Sales of 14,285 would have won me the Virtual Cloud 🏆 ”

    If “IF’s and butts were candy and nuts, we’d all have a Merry Christmas”…

  279. Keep Calm & Stack On says

    I bet 2017-W and 2016-W numbers are way down this week..

    I totally forgot they existed since Larry spotted the ‘S’ set

  280. Keep Calm & Stack On says

    I think the numbers dude at Mint HQ went home early today.., or is still having a siesta..,

    There’s more than a few of us circling like sharks I’m sure, for what surprises those numbers will bring

  281. Tom says

    A signed label is as ridiculous as a first or early release. And people will actually pay for it. Why? That is not what coin collecting is.

  282. Keep Calm & Stack On says

    Xena – you’re closer than I, you mind swinging by the mint and waking up the numbers dude?

    That’s so not cool, of all weeks, just to gaff it off.., I gotta go for a run and cut the grass!

    Mint probably just realized they sold 100,000 Congratulations Sets in 120 seconds.., oops.

  283. Brad says

    The conversation here about the 2017 Congratulations Set having an “S” ASE in it is precisely the reason why I can never abandon Mint News Blog. There’s too much valuable information that I’ve gleaned here for me to ever give up on it! I would have COMPLETELY missed out on this had it not been for Larry! I’d already dismissed it as just more U.S. Mint junk. I’ll be more careful in the future.

  284. Keep Calm & Stack On says

    Hooray for Larry!

    I hope Larry got a set, and if so, its not on Back Order! I image he would otherwise be peeved.

    We need a special code talker’s lingo out here for the special finds.., to keep the lurking dealers and big boys are bay..,

    Who ever bought into the Miners did well today.., bagged a good 3%+

  285. Keep Calm & Stack On says

    This whole thing with North Korea and the diverted USS Carl Vinson battle group should keep Au prices well supported, not to mention the Kremlin issue, one would think.

    Gold increase coming this week.

  286. Keep Calm & Stack On says

    It appears the Soup Nazi was hired by the mint subsequent to the cancellation of Seinfeld.., “No Numbers for You!”

    Oh well..,

  287. Yes, But...You Can't Take It With You says

    I received my first order of Congratulations sets today – box of 4. This order went in during the first minute of sales. I’m selling unopened. My second order of two (placed during the 2nd minute) is still on BO. I sure hope that I am able to get that order since that one is the “keeper”…

  288. joe#2 says

    Sean Spicer should study history before making idiotic comments. Just answer questions. Period.. sheesh

  289. Old Big Bird says

    Interesting no sales number from the mint yet at 6:35pm

    •Figures are posted weekly by 5 p.m. (ET) Tuesdays to reflect sales demand through the previous Sunday, starting on June 18, 2013.

    This is from the mint’s site

  290. earthling says

    Lack of Sales results in lack of numbers? Is the Mint trying to do a cover up? Were there massive cancellations?

    Who cares anyway? There are things happening which are far more interesting out there.

  291. KEITHSTER says

    They must have been counting all those Effigy Mounds quarters because those are posted now! 210.8 & 271.2 which leaves 156.8 for the Frederick Douglass so far? As for the S eagle expected all the games but the 7 day limit should be up so some should be shipping soon? Hope the big dogs don’t send too many back so that some of us get a shot at some fresh ones and while your at it hit them a little harder PLEASE WeLL GooD LucK Allllllllll “>”>”>”>”>”>”>”>”>”>

  292. Xena says

    KSCO – Ha! Might be the closest, but no way. I wouldn’t waste my breath let alone the Metro fare.

    It’s spring break for most of the schools around here, lots of folks are off.

  293. Xena says

    Picked up my 2 Congrats set from my brother this weekend and my order of 2 from the website (along with a 2017W) came yesterday. Given the way the Mint is, I didn’t risk the Mint store really having them even though my brother was there. Packaging issues have already been noted. My order was an early one, although that doesn’t seem to make a difference.

    With apologies to those who are in order limbo, has anyone opened an S-Mint capsule yet? They are a bit different (have a rim). Doesn’t pop off easily.

    Reason I ask is that one of mine has either a smudge or dust – hard to tell which and would like to take it out and check. One of the Congrats sets that wasn’t mailed has a small crack in the capsule.

    Had a small speck of dust on the 2017W. Otherwise the proof set, silver qtr set and other Eagles are in good shape.

    I’m an OGP kind-of person, so not really sure what I am going to do with these.

  294. Xena says

    So we all (or at least most of us) have to work to buy coins, right? Been enjoying the comments. I think there’s a bit too much greed and not enough respect for the work of the average person (how much more than an average employee does a typical CEO make?). I think most people want the satisfaction of doing something that matters for someone or something they can be proud of.

    Me, I always wanted to be a farmer or a park ranger. Didn’t work out that way. I can’t really even have a garden, since I don’t get enough sun with all the trees and the deer eat everything anyway. Belong to a farmers co-op in the winter and shop the famer’s markets in the summer.

  295. The Real "Cool" Brad says

    @Xena, I have the same issue, look forward to replies.

    HSN dude was selling these for 380 anacs 70. He said he could only get 270

  296. joe#2 says

    Mike Mezak selling the UHR 2017 gold Liberty for $2899.00 It is an awesome coin though.
    I thought the coin was just HR??? hmmm

  297. Xena says

    Almost forgot to catch y’all up on the best news of the past week – had a second Boy Scout complete the Coin Collecting Merit Badge, and have another one who wants to get started!

  298. Louis says

    @joe#2- I agree. I think he may lose his job over this one. Leon Panetta is saying the exact same thing you said right now on CNN. Just answer the question. Don’t editorialize. And Spicer was wrong on so many points. Like how in WWI the Germans and the allies used chemical weapons. Please return now to your regularly scheduled coin program.

  299. Texas In 1880 says

    About the 2017 S capsules, I know what you’re describing because I see the same thing on a few of mine. Only thing is I haven’t taken the time to look more closely at them. I assuming it’s only on the capsules.

    So you’re not sure what to do with them because your an OGP person. Me too, but I’m very close to opening an account at a TPG and sending them in, simply because it’s what sells. Now, I don’t plan on selling those, but if it’s what brings the most cash when or if I have to sell, why would I not want to add as much value to the coin, even if it goes against the values of the true collectors who will tell you so on this blog. I have to do what’s right by me. No disrespect, I love you guys, got it?

  300. So Krates says

    Most folks don’t realize that the Chemical Weapons Convention allows use of chemical agents for domestic law enforcement while banning those very same agents in battle. The US gov.’t fought hard to have this exemption carved out so it could continue to legally gas it’s own people at places like Waco, Ferguson, etc.

  301. sharks2th says

    @Xena – I ordered a bunch of other items with the S ASE as well. One of my W ASE capsules looked like it had a Krispy Kreme glaze smear on it. It wiped off but was odd. Another one had a 3mm blue filament in the capsule. I carefully opened it and static held it to the half capsule. I blew the filament off of the capsule and snapped it back together. Other than these items, I was pleased with the strike on the coins I received. I haven’t finished looking at the clad proof sets yet.

  302. Buzz Killington says

    I can’t wait until the Chinese start imposing tariffs on the U.S. to punish us for our bad treatment of the Native Americans, which continues to this very day.

    You can be a patriot and still acknowledge that our country has a lot of internal problems.

    The one thing I thought would be a plus about a Trump presidency is a lack of foreign adventurism. But this, too, seems to have been a false hope.

  303. data dave says

    Darn, checking the sales figures this morning I was hoping to post just one to beat Cagcrisp. No so luck, still waiting. I received my 2017 S proof eagle and was happy with the way it looked. I missed out on the 2011 anniversary set but have most of the other ones. Wasn’t interested in the HR gold coin, not because of the design but more because of the markup and the overall cost.

  304. achmed says

    Hello Mr. President: You want to create jobs? Begin with the usmint!!! They need personnel in the QM-Department, in the fulfillmentcenter and in the Top-Management area.

  305. statequarterguy says

    Here’s a link to file an online complaint with the U.S. Treasury Department Inspector General. You can file anonymously and mint mismanagement is a legit complaint. If they get a bunch of these, they may do something about it.


    Here’s a sample complaint:

    David Motl, Acting Principal Deputy Director
    United States Mint

    I am filing this complaint because of mismanagement (or worse) by David Motl, Acting Principal Deputy Director of the United States Mint. The U.S. Mint, under Mr. Motl’s direction, repeatedly offers limited edition coins in a manner that allows a few large business interests to monopolize the entire issue. The most recent abuse was an offering for the 2017 Congratulations Set on April 4, 2017 with no ordering limits. This issue sold out in less than two minutes and most collectors were shutout. It appears from aftermarkets sales, a few large dealers bought most of the sets. Please review Mr. Motl’s business practices in order to assure all U.S. Mint customers have a chance to purchase their offerings. Thank You.

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