Examining the West Point Silver Eagle Set Sales Data

set1As most readers are probably aware, the United States Mint has incorporated a sales counter on the product page for the 2013 West Point Silver Eagle Set. The daily updates to the counter will surely be closely watched during the course of the four week ordering window and particularly closely near the end of the window.

The counter provides an “approximation” of the total units ordered through all active sales channels and is updated each week day (excluding Federal holidays) around 3:00 PM ET. The US Mint does disclaim the data to some extent, stating “This data is provided for informational purposes only and should not be construed to represent accepted orders or actual sales figures.”

Last year a similar counter had been in place for the 2012 San Francisco Silver Eagle Set. The last reported figure of 251,302 was subsequently adjusted downwards by more than 10% to a final unaudited total of 224,981. The reduction was presumably related to canceled orders, declined orders, product returns, orders received after the deadline but post marked before the deadline, and/or differences between the daily approximation and actual orders.

Although the data for the 2013 West Point Silver Eagle Set is not exact, it does provide a very useful indication of product demand and lends to some comparisons with the San Francisco Silver Eagle Set.

Shown below is the daily sales data for the West Point Set to date. The first number column represents the daily change, while the second number column represents the reported cumulative sales total.

Increase Total Sales
5/10/2013 138,514
5/13/2013 44,259 182,773
5/14/2013 4,768 187,541
5/15/2013 4,185 191,726
5/16/2013 1,926 193,652

After a white-hot opening of 182,773 units sold through the opening day and weekend, sales quickly calmed down in the following three days. This pattern has been typical for most US Mint numismatic offerings, with the first few days of sales providing a strong indication of how the offering will fare over the course of the period of availability.

The 2012 San Francisco Set had sold 115,059 units during the opening day and weekend. After this point, sales similarly slowed bottoming at an increase of 1,210 about ten days into the ordering window. Sales began to move up strongly in the final week of the offering, which saw the addition of 75,714 in total sales. During this final week, the daily increases were large until cumulative sales approached the 250,000 mark. At that point, the daily increases quickly fell off. (Full data from the SF Set can be found here.)

Using percentages for some of the SF Set data, the opening day and weekend sales accounted for 45.8% of the unadjusted sales total. The final week accounted for 30.1% of the unadjusted final sales total.

Will the 2013 West Point Set follow a similar trajectory? If the opening day and weekend sales account for a similar percentage of overall sales, this would put the final total close to 400,000 units.

Such a sales total might be too optimistic. The excitement of the new enhanced uncirculated finish may have driven more sales to the opening days from collectors who wanted to be among the first to receive the sets (and dealers who wanted to be the first to market the sets). If this is the case, daily sales increases for the duration of the ordering window and particularly in the final week would be lower compared to the San Francisco Set offering.

A key level to watch will be the 250,000 sales mark, which was the maximum mintage established for the 2006 20th Anniversary Silver Eagle Set. Although the enhanced uncirculated Silver Eagle will be the first of its kind, some are likely keeping tabs on how the set will fall into the mintage hierarchy of the four anniversary sets.

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Comments

  1. Jack says

    I actually think that the sales total will be similar to the SF set, but more people ordered them earlier because they were tired of waiting so long last time or want first/early release labels.

  2. Brian says

    Thank you. I see that the household ordering limit of 10 slowed things down. That makes sense.

  3. Larry says

    Looks to me, from the 2006, and 2012 sets, history is saying about 225 to 250K is about all the mint will ever sell because that is how many collectors want. There are only so many collectors. The 2011 set would probably have sold that many if the mint made that many.

  4. stephen m says

    The high opening #’s surprised me. A RP is getting to be common for an ASE. While the enhanced W is a first i still think it has a circus or carnival presence about it and, although it should be a good looking coin, i don’t think it will take ASE collectors by storm but most will obtain it to keep their collection current, like myself. It looks as if the #’s are coming down a bit and it does appear like ordering was done early to get the set quicker than they received the SF set. I look foward to holding in hand my 2 sets.

  5. Brad says

    I don’t get why the Mint always seems to insist on waiting until the ordering window is closed before starting to ship the sets out. If there are already 100-125K or so made up, why not ship them out? That gets the 7-day cancellation period rolling and locks in those sales faster. Undoubtedly a large number of the cancellations last year were because of the long wait for shipment.

    The last I saw, the expected shipping date is now 9/30. Huh? That’s almost 4 months after the window closes! I know the date bouncees around so much that it’s pretty much meaningless, but to still project it out that far is a bit ridiculous.

  6. thePhelps says

    I think a lot of people are holding out and ordering these with a lot of other mint offerings. I expect the numbers to start jumping today and again at the end of the month and the last day. There are a lot of things going on sale this month and free shipping will certainly be in play.

  7. Joe s says

    All this interest in these collectible ASEs really boggles me. I think they’re just a fad and sooner rather than later their values will start greatly falling

  8. TK in Minneapolis says

    I agree with thePhelps. I’m waiting until June 4th when the Uncirculated Mint set comes out. That way I can order that along with the Silver Proof set and the Mint Proof set and get them all for just a one time shipping fee. I always try to space out my orders to take advantage of the one time shipping fee for multiple products. I guess I’m cheap that way, 🙂

    Anyway this is a beautiful set but I do agree with previous posts the I’m getting a little tired of this design and it would be good to move on to something else sometime soon.

  9. Boz says

    Historically an S mint offering has always been more intriguing to a true collector. Hence I was interested in the 2011 and 2012 silver eagle sets, but will not be purchasing the 2013 set.

    With a 5 ounce bullion silver coin now selling for about the same as this 2013 set, it also makes more sense to go with the puck. You have 3 ounces moe silver and a mintage of possibly only 15-20,000 for White Mountain as opposed to 250,000 or greater for the eagles.

  10. Shutter says

    Historically an S mint offering has always been more intriguing to a true collector.

    Really?! Why? Also what distinguishes a “true” collector from a “false” one?

  11. says

    Joe,

    The American silver eagle is the most popular and well known silver bullion coin in the world, so it stands to reason that numismatic varieties of the silver eagle would be the among the most popular variety of numismatic products out there. I don’t really think the demand for silver eagle products in general is a fad. Probably the only numismatic products more venerable than the silver eagles are the proof circulating US coin sets.

  12. Blair J. Tobler says

    Boz,

    Your comments about the 5oz vs the ASE set makes you sound like a “true investor” rather than a “true collector”.

    There’s no such thing as a “true collector” because most of us have our own niches and/or specialties and/or personal likes, and are not constrained to what others may wish to define it as.

  13. Hawkster says

    The mega orders for the WP set that were put in by the big boy dealers and marketers surely accounted for a high percentage of the initial orders, especially the first day. Now that things have calmed down, the little guys are leisurely placing their orders, in many instances to save shipping costs by lumping their orders with newly released Mint products.

    The extended/late shipping dates on last year’s set no doubt resulted in many cancellations and returns. Hopefully the Mint will ship the WP sets out in a more timely manner to avoid a repeat of 2012. The Mint would actually be doing itself a favor.

    The big positive of this set being minted at WP is that this facility seems to have excellent quality control. The silver eagle proofs that I have received from WP are typically flawless.

  14. JBK says

    I fully respect the opinions or preferences of those who like those 5 ounce pucks, but it is ridiculous to make any head-to-head comparisons with the Silver Eagle series in regard to mintages.

    The 5 ounce silver “quarters” will, in my opinion, never be anywhere near as widely collected as the Silver Eagle series, so mintage comparisons are irrelevant. For the five ouncers, there are too many different designs and the base price is too high for these to be widely collected as a series. It is one thing to shell out big $ for the few rarities within a series, but to have to shell out a hundred or two (or more) for every coin is a big disincentive. If silver drops through the floor (which I do not expect to see happen) and they start selling for 25 or 30 dollars, then things may change, but otherwise they will never have the following the SEs do.

    As for this year’s SE set, no one will have them in hand prior to the expiration of the ordering period. So, it is possible that demand may pick up after the coins start to ship and people get a look at the enhanced coin. Or, so many sets may be sold that the demand will more than be met.

    The mintages for collector SEs have fluctuated in the last few years, and mintages of some of the regular W unc and the proof coins are rivaling the special sets, but prices are not consistent. I think that the value and desirability of various coins in the SE series have yet to be sorted out in the minds of collectors. I suspect there will be rising values of certain coins as time goes by, but there could be decreases in the value of others as well.

  15. thePhelps says

    I’d love to see the mint hold any orders of several hundred and larger to the end and ship the small orders first… that sure would put a twist on ordering 35,000 sets.

  16. Hawkster says

    JBK,

    The future value of these SE sets will be governed by the collector base. If the collector base continues to shrink, as has been the case, then this does not bode well for the values of these sets. The younger generation is not, for the most part, into collectibles–whether its coins, stamps, antiques, etc. Modern electonics is where their money goes.

  17. Boz says

    A true collector keeps something because she likes it. A broker or a dealer or an evil flipper could also still be a true collector, or not.

    A true collector will oneday die, leaving a true collector spouse or other heir to figure out what to do. In this sense a true collector must also evaluate what will best benefit her descendants or spouse.

    When you are dead, all your non-collector descendants are going to get at the pawn shop is spot bullion minus 20 percent. So it never hurts to keep in mind the bullion value, if any.

    Thank you for asking and I trust this answers you adequately.

  18. Ray says

    I think the current generations are much smarter than to sell their fathers collection of coins to a pawn shop. I would even say that most would be smart enough not to sell to a dealer. Ebay is the answer for maximizing sales of an inherited collection.

    I dont agree with your definition of true collector. I dont even think there is such a thing. Its completely arbitrary and a crock of poo imo. everyone collects for different reasons. people can define what a true collector is to them, but in the end, thats only an opinion.

    I laugh every time I read in these posts where people talk about selling to a coin shop, and even more with pawn shop. i was at the coin shop last week and the owner was talking to someone with a huge collection who was looking to sell it. he advised the seller/collector to sell each coin individually, not as a lot, and that his best bet was to take it to ebay. Ebay does fetch higher values than anywhere else Ive seen coins sold. I dont see coin store sales, clearly, but the values on ebay are more than either the red or blue books.

    Anyone who takes their hard earned money and buys a collectible coin, is a true collector in my eyes, even if that collector decides he/she likes another coin better and sells some of their collection to acquire it. ONe again, thats just one man opinion.

  19. Brian says

    Ray – maybe some members of the current generations would be smart enough to sell on ebay. But many are not.

    It takes work to list an item on ebay and it also takes a certain knowledge of coins. You need to remember that most people think it is really unusual to see a presidential dollar or a $2 bill.

    Imagine how foreign a silver eagle, Morgan dollar, or V nickel would look to them. Of course in many cases it would be worth their time to read a little bit and buy a Red Book. But that would take effort too.

    The idea of cash in hand today is too appealing for many to resist, even if they know they are not getting top dollar. I’ll use a favorite phrase of my dad:

    “The masses are asses.”

  20. Chuck says

    Hawkster.

    Nothing stays the same. Markets expand. Markets contract. Watch the Antiques Roadshow and you’ll hear 10 years ago the market for a certain item was through the roof but has tailed of recently. That’s why I like the ATB Ps. When only 15,000-20,000 of something exists it takes fewer people to make a market. Think of all those folks who hemmed and hawed back in 1995,complaining about the cost of the proof set with ’95W eagle. They were looking at the product relative to their “present”, not seeing into the future that a Proof silver eagle with a low 5 digit mintage might command very nice premiums, even though all proof eagle mintages thru 1994 were at 300,000 or more. I have no idea what the future holds for the P ATBs. Should be interesting.

  21. Fosnock says

    @Ray – I could not have said it better myself

    @Brian – You are correct I have read numerous stories that people have taken Double Eagles to spend\deposit at face value. Now saying that it makes the news because most of the population knows that the person in question is dumb. I can’t speak for the masses but my “descendants” are not going to be getting spot price for my collection, for no other reason than I like telling family members the history, value and how I acquired my coins, surprisingly it does not bore them.

  22. high low silver says

    Your creepy Boz !! I know what a true collector is, its not about death, but collecting what YOU want and can afford to collect.I just purchased a 1779 el cazador shipwreck 8 reel coin for more than this WP offering….

  23. Hawkster says

    Chuck,
    Just because a series of coins, such as the ATB pucks, have low mintage figures, it doesn’t always equate to a high demand on the after- market. The American Silver Eagle, in all its forms, has much more universal appeal and collector interest than do the 5 oz. ATB’s. Sure, there are quite a few collectors that love these ATB’s, but it remains to be seen how these novelties will do in the future. It is a niche market for the ATB’s.

    Another contemporary example is the half-ounce First Spouse series. Despite relatively low mintages, the after-market value of these pieces hasn’t exactly soared. Again, it is a series with limited collector appeal. Either you love them or you don’t.

    If you like collecting these pieces, than by all means go for them. But don’t project any future profits if you are inclined to sell them down the road.

  24. Gary says

    We definately have some friggin idiots in this coin hobby! “True Collector” I am sure there are plenty of defintions of what everyone thinks a “True Collector” is. I buy extra coins to sell to help pay for my collection!! Hmmmmm….evil flipper or “true collector”…….sounds like smart bizz to me.

    Anyway, back to the topic here…It would be nice if we could get these in hand before the deadline…maybe some of us would buy more or less?

  25. fosnock says

    @Gary – I agree but I’m going to run the gauntlet and get another one when I order the un-circulated ASE

  26. Don says

    Maybe if we the term “serious collector” rather than “true collector”, some of this increasingly negative and innane banter among commenters can cease. The collection of a serious collector, whether coins or antique tools, evolves over time. The collector strives to upgrade his or her collection, often by selling starter pieces to buy better pieces. In essence, the collector becomes a dealer. Often times, the serious collector decides to eventually specialize in his area of collecting. The coin collector, for example, may choose to specialize in Morgan silver dollars. The collector eventually comes to realize that, no matter what he collects, he can’t possibly get everything out there.

    The serious collector also needs to have a discussion with, and educate his family members on what to do with the collection when he passes. If his heirs (children, grand children) show interest in the collection, it would be a simple passing down of the pieces in an agreed way. Otherwise, he should suggest ways to sell the coins in the best possible way to maximize profits. Obviously, the collection needs to be cataloged and periodically updated to the current market values.

  27. Dan says

    True Collector – one who enjoys the hobby and shares his passion for coins with anyone and everyone whenever and wherever he or she can. Its got nothing to do with buying or selling, but sharing his love and knowledge and promoting the hobby with others.

  28. TomP. says

    @Boz, stop being so realistic. My plan is to start slowly selling my collection after I retire. If I die before then strangers will get rich.

    I’m in my early 50’s and know silver vs non-silver coinage. Copper vs zinc. Today’s young people, even fairly intelligent young people have no idea (zero, zilch) about silver coins. I’ve ‘purchased’ silver quarters for 25 cents (they don’t work in some vending machines) and have been asked if the ’76 quarters are worth anything. Damm…. I’ve seen silver coins laying around on Coinstar machines… with no one taking them.

    A true collector is basically buy and hold.

  29. John Brown says

    TomP.:
    You made my night. “If I die before then strangers will get rich.”
    I can’t stop laughing. My wife would sell my 5oz ATB’s for 25 cents because they are just big ugly quarters.

  30. Dave says

    Oh for Ch___t sakes! You guys are driving me nuts with this — true believer, non-believer — true collector, non-collector thing. It’s making my head TRULY ache! It truly is — Truly yours.

  31. Dave says

    Oh for Ch___t sakes! You guys are driving me nuts with this — true believer, non-believer — true collector, non-collector thing. It’s making my head TRULY ache! It truly is — Truly yours.

  32. rpw says

    You people kill me.
    ONCE again there is this ridiculous discussion about collector vs investor/flipper.

    @ Don – you proved the point I made in several previous posts on this subject when you said “The serious collector also needs to have a discussion with, and educate his family members on what to do with the collection when he passes. If his heirs (children, grand children) show interest in the collection, it would be a simple passing down of the pieces in an agreed way. Otherwise, he should suggest ways to sell the coins in the best possible way to maximize profits. Obviously, the collection needs to be cataloged and periodically updated to the current market values.”.

    Collectors care about the value or worth of their “collection” just as an investor. And when the time or price is right they are suddenly willing to part with their Prized collectible. Why????? Because of it’s value.

    I collect ATB’s and special sets. I enjoy looking at them. They are like art just like my stock certificate collection. But the bottom line is – I can part with them at any time for the right price!

    There is Little Difference between the two — when the “PRICE IS RIGHT”.
    ANYONE who says otherwise is full of it! So please stop the BS with this “I’m a (true/serious) collector garbage because it really is bull.

    BTW – no offense meant to anyone — just tired of listening to these LAME arguments because they really are lame.

  33. Gary says

    @fosnock
    Yeah..i ordered 2 and thought about ordering one more as well when the Burnished Eagle Releases….I still need to pick up a Silver Proof Set but i am hoping the Mint will lower the price? $54.95 perhaps!

  34. Kip Caven says

    So you think buying 2 eagles for $139-2 ounces-is a better deal than spending another 40 and having almost TRIPLE the amount of silver?
    Theres gonna end up being a billion sets sold vs. maybe 50k of the pucks
    Buy what ya want! I look at my calculator and get the best deal

  35. thePhelps says

    @Kip – not sure I get the analogy. These are collector sets and the 5oz coin is also a collector coin. The bullion ratio is really not a factor to many here – or many who collect these.

    I mean seriously, if you want to do the math – I have to ask why are you buying the $180 5 oz coin when you can buy it for $140 in bullion? I think your calculator needs recalibrated.

  36. Don says

    high low silver:

    You are also a conch? At least you can get your pieces for free by taking strolls along the beach. I wouldn’t submit any of these to the TPG companies (although they are so money hungry that they would probably attempt to grade them).

    I’ve accumulated a nice collection of Indian arrowheads by walking the plowed fields of farms. Again, a pastime that can be done for free. And its good exercise!

  37. joe says

    Whatever the final number is at the end of May will definitely fall. My order shows a delivery time at the end of September. Between May and September, there will be people that change their minds or reduce their orders. Conversely, there will not be an opportunity to order new ones, so the number can only go down…not up. With the huge latency between ordering and delivery, I expect the final number to drop roughly 20% (especially if the flippers start believing their return won’t be as large). JMO.

  38. high low silver says

    Don: I love to stroll the beaches of MD,DE and VA along with my girl ! Up @ dawn, listening to the breakers, we have the entire shoreline to ourselves !! Going. June 1-7. As good as coin collecting, look forward to it twice a year !! TGPs can kiss my azz!lol:)

  39. Chuck says

    Hawkster.

    You’re right which is why my last line was:

    “I have no idea what the future holds for the P ATBs. Should be interesting.”

    I’m not smart enough to predict the future. All I can do is look at today’s facts and learn from the past.

  40. Don says

    High low silver: It’s a great area down there. We’ve come down from Long Island to the Eastern Shore where we’ve eaten great crab cakes at the waterside eateries close to the Maritime Museum in St. Michaels. Outstanding museum! Assateague Island is also spectacular, with the wild horses and hiking trails. One time in November we saw thousands of snow geese landing in the pond at the National Park. Spectacular! If one is into carved shorebirds and decoys it doesn’t get any better than here.

    I guess we’re a bit off-topic, but that’s alright on a Saturday mornig.

  41. Dustyroads says

    I think it’s reasonable to believe that the 5oz. AtB’s whether in P or bullion will eventually become better known as time goes by and become a more sought after offering when they are no longer available from the US Mint. Although the numbers separating the two types of coins are not much, at least in my opinion, the numismatic version should be more desirable. The calculator does indicate a clear direction in terms of affordability when deciding to buy an ASE opposed to an AtB presently speaking, but one has to hold a certain amount of optimism when collecting and investing in anything that speaks to them.

    Logic is that a series of coins minted in low numbers such as the Spouses or AtB’s will never be worth much because their low numbers are typical, but the future should reveal that logic may be somewhat skewed as coins become more a part of the past as future generations want to connect with the past.

    I’m 49, my goal is to put away small investments for a rainy day, or to leave behind if I never need to liquidate. In any case, I feel like I’m accomplishing something.

  42. Hawkster says

    Dusty: You are certainly optimistic for the future of the ATB pucks and, hopefully, things will pan out for you. But I’m not so sure that future generations will have an interest in connecting with the past through ATB’s. Let’s face it: the 5 oz. ATB’s have their own niche for some collectors. When the series concludes, it remains to be seen if they will be destined to become collectible coin footnotes or have some value to others in the future.

    The guy on the HSN coin show always says that there are millions of coin collectors out there. What is the figure he uses? 150 million? Unfortunately, slightly less than 150 million “collectors” are not even aware that 5 oz. ATB’s exist. I just don’t know how they, or future generations, are going to become aware of them if they have no clue they exist today.

  43. Dustyroads says

    To be honest with you, I’m not fully in on the AtB’s. I’m only in the past year beginning to think more highly of them. I like to think of them as the coin that was offered to the public at a low price, but by the time the a greater number of consumers discover them, they are history, and only found at absorbent prices.

    Hows that for optimism! I don’t think I’m alone, nor am I writing this for my benefit.

  44. Paul says

    For all the people saying family members should sell on EPay, I would not recommend it. Between listing fees, final value fees, shipping, and paypal fees, it can cost you between 20 and 30 per cent. And there is always the chance some idiot gives you a bad rating or claims he never got his coin. I tell my family what dealer to deal with. May get a little less, but no problems, cash in hand.

  45. says

    @Paul…20-30%…I don’t think so. I’ve sold on ebay for several years, and yes, their fees keep going up. Listing fees are free for up to 50 items each month…final value fees are now a flat 10% for auctions and fixed price listings…paypal is 2.9% plus .30. Shipping can vary depending upon the service. So basically, it’s 13% plus shipping.

    I have an ebay store so my final value fees are 7% on coins…so If I sell a set of ATB’s for $900, my fees are 10% plus shipping.

  46. says

    Paul, one other thing…for items over $200, I recommend siqnature confirmation…that way you have proof of delivery.

  47. Hawkster says

    Just an idea, but anyone can put together their own custom 2013 5pc. West Point Set: Just buy an empty 2011 Silver Eagle box with capsules from Ebay and place in the five WP 2013 silver eagle issues:
    1. proof
    2. reverse proof
    3. enhanced uncirculated
    4. uncirculated
    5. bullion

    This would make for an impressive set.

  48. GMS says

    About eBay: We received a reduction in fees which started on May 1st. Also, as a Top Rated Seller we receive an additional 20% off the total bill each month. If you ever start your own website from scratch you will see it isn’t cheap either.

    So what I am saying is eBay provides a good platform for what you pay. Not to mention the freedom of not having a brick and mortar location to sit in all day. We have been selling on eBay since 2004 and have never had a serious problem with a transaction.

  49. says

    Just purchased a couple of bullion White Mtn 5 oz from Provident for $125 each. Maybe I shouldn’t of already bought the P version for $55 more.

  50. high low silver says

    If spot silver goes below $21 the Mint is SOL with this WP offering !!!

  51. RSF says

    Hawkster – nice idea. I also used the 2011 5-hole box to display all 5 of the reverse proofs issued to date. (’06W,’06P,’07W,’11P,and ’12S) With 2 more RPs this year, finding a display case will be harder. Maybe Capital plastics will create one?

  52. high low silver says

    Perhaps you could use a 2012 case to display a 2006 RP gold eagle and a 2013 RP buffalo ?

  53. high low silver says

    Steve: I saw it @ $21.08…….. very close. I must have went to the bathroom….

  54. says

    re: 2011 display box…I have several…in one I had (now sold) the five Perth mint Dragons of Legend coins….decided I had too many $100 one oz silver coins and sold them.

    I currently display the New Zealand Titanic coin, the 3 coin WWll Nose Art set and the Great White Shark coin with the shark bites through the coin. The capsules are not an exact fit, they they do well enough.

  55. high low silver says

    Love my overpriced shark coin Steve …lol.. but is is what it is…… right ??? I concidered those nose art coins from NZ but just couldn’t commit..

  56. says

    high low…yeah, I overpaid for the nose art set, but it was one on those things i bought because i liked it. And who knows…with a mintage of only 3000, they may do well someday.

  57. says

    I wish the Mint would publish the mintage limits of the 2013 bullion AtB’s…if they are close to last years, they look like the winners to me based on current spot.

  58. fosnock says

    I liked the Nose art coins but like High Low I passed on them, I think they will do well but…as far as the millions of collectors that don’t know about the ATBs, I disagree proof sets and ASEs (Proof and un-circulated) have sold in the millions so IMHO the ATBs are doing so bad because they only initially produced 27K P versions and 33K bullion. It did not matter how many people were interested only 60K could get them, then add the debacle the APs made with the bullion coins. If the Mint would not have whipped the APs into shape I would not be collecting them, and even then I had to think hard about it.

  59. fosnock says

    Mark – Although its nice to know sales figures We are interested in mintage limits.

  60. merryxmaxmrscrooge says

    The question is…
    Why isn’t there an MLK Commemorative Half Dollar?
    The “I Have a Dream” speech was in Aug. 1963 (wikipedia)
    So this is 2013 the 50th Anniversary. 1963 – 2013
    This is an important piece of history we should never forget. The Mint definitely should not ignore this.

  61. Don says

    High low silver,

    Being both a coin and shell collector, it must make you particularly thrilled to find sand dollars on the beach.

  62. thePhelps says

    @fosnock – I think the price more than production numbers hurt the ATB 5oz coins. With 5 coins a year at (sometimes) close to $300 a pop – a lot of people stayed away. I know I did – and I am not going back to buy the ones I missed at that price either. I would imagine you’ll be able to find them in pawn shops in the future for a premium over bullion, but I know many here won’t sell them at the current $179.95 price. I think the 1st 3 years of this set will have an odd ride through the next several years.

  63. thePhelps says

    @merryxmaxmrscrooge – the mint doesn’t decide what to make – congress does.

  64. Dustyroads says

    I’m guessing what is keeping the AtB’s from selling more is that they are simply a little more silver than most buyers are interested in. It may be that most buyers are making impulsive purchases, and burnout could set in. Sure looks like more room for less floor under PM’s!

  65. Fosnock says

    @thePhelps – The price did hurt but they did sellout (eventually). I hope your right though this collection could use a boost.

  66. Kraw says

    The other problem with hot springs is it looks like an elaborate toilet. What a whimper of a way they started this awesome series…

  67. thePhelps says

    @Picturefun – that is a good one. Too bad my funds this month are gone. I got a Chaco – the Silver Proof set – the 2 coin sets – the White Mountain and bullion…and I am waiting on the uncir ASE and uncir mint sets… this has been a spendy month…

  68. Darek says

    Hello. I’m trying to build FS gold proof set and first 3 coins from 2012 looks like they have been sand blasted ( on the mirror background). I returned those coins for replacement 7 times already. Did anybody else also notice this problem with 2012 gold FS coins? Thank you .

  69. Dan in Fla says

    2012 sets continue to sell out. The circulating quarters for 2012 have been moved to the sold out side. I sold a 2012 uncirculated set for 67.00 on ebay . Not bad when the set costs $12.95. Now the circulating quarters will be of value.

  70. Brad says

    That surprises me about the 2012 Circulating Quarters set. They must have only made 25,000 of those. The 2011’s and 2010’s are still available, so I wonder how many of those were made? Maybe 30,000 and 35,000 respectively based on last week’s sales numbers, but who knows. I’ve been buying those sets since the beginning, since it was a handy way to get each design P and D when they proved to be very elusive at banks.

    Maybe the 2012 set will be the key, especially since it appears that the 2013 and forward designs may have much higher mintages in comparison.

  71. IPS_STUFF says

    …For Brad

    Why do you say “it appears that the 2013 and forward designs may have a much higher mintage ? ”

    Since it seems to early to judge what 2013 will hold, nothing has sold to mintage levels of last year at this point. From what I am viewing on the weekly sales figures. The only item I know getting close is the “S” mint quarters. I am calculating that figure on white plainss at just north of 1.3 million, so it still has 300k before we know if they made more or less that 2012.

    In my mind we still can’t make your blanket statement.

  72. Brad says

    IPS,

    I wasn’t talking about Mint product mintages or S quarters, I was talking about the quarter mintages themselves for Philadelphia and Denver (the “circulating” ones). White Mountain and Perry’s Victory both have mintages that far exceed the lows of 2012.

    It stands to reason that more “Circulating Quarter Sets” may be produced for 2013, due to higher mintages of the quarters themselves. There is no guarantee of that, however. Still, it seems plausible that the 2012 set may be the lowest-produced one in the program, since the trend on quarter production seems to be headed much higher than before. That’s all I meant. I wouldn’t even venture a guess as to how many Mint or Proof sets will be made this year.

  73. IPS_STUFF says

    Okay …Brad

    Understand…. Yes seems the circulated mintage of 2013 Quarters is back to levels of the State Quarters series…

    I am still having trouble finding 2010, 2011 & 2012 in circulation and no bank in my Southern California area ever have rolls of these. I have been asking for 3 plus years now

  74. simon says

    IPS : I have received all my < 2012 units in change. I received a pristine Hawaii coin in change for the purchase of a milkshake. I have scanned bank rolls but absolutely no luck there. These coins seem to be making it into circulation without provision by the mint in roll format to businesses and banks.

  75. stephen m says

    Mint web site says 17 days left but odometer says the same number as of last Friday. That mint.

  76. thePhelps says

    stephen – alot of people poke fun at the mint… but they do ok apparently. I don’t think 17 days starting this morning and the 3pm update are too much of an inaccuracy.

  77. stephen m says

    Phelps, I did appear to poke fun. I worked for the government once upon a time and i know when they have the only game in town they don’t stay on top of things as they should. Or i should say their way sometimes takes longer. No harm done. 199,8 sounds right. thanks high low silver.

  78. Tim says

    Wow, that is crazy about the circulating ATB set. I have been getting then since ’10 and the price of it, the first was outrageous. Glad they dropped substantially and I picked up the ’12.

  79. Tim says

    Oops guess I was thinking of the Unc Set prices. Still they are expensive to be drabby clad.

  80. high low silver says

    IPS : You should have had no trouble at all in 2010 and 2011…I got a couple rolls each from my bank…… 2012 and 13 are a different story.

  81. picturefun says

    @ Samuel

    >>the problem abt hotspring is that it is getting milky spots.<<

    It depends. Not all of them can have milky spots. I still have one, looks just fine, no any milky spots. I actually do not want to keep it, but I do not want to sell it at loss either

  82. high low silver says

    I went to a coin show last month and a dealer had a couple for $179 with milk spots on both. I asked him about it and he had no answer. I couldn’t believe someone would have kept those coins. I don’t follow or purchase the ATB 5oz so I’m just telling everyone what I encountered.They reminded me of a large off quality Maple leaf.

  83. Eddie says

    Has anyone received their White Mtn. 5 ozer? you know the Mint has them made or at least should. So what is the hold up.

  84. Frankie says

    My advice would be to keep the 5oz ATB’s unless you’re desperate for the money – the mintage of these is so low in comparison to all other US Mint silver coins that in a few years from now they should sell at a decent premium, esp. condsidering the ATB series will continue until 2021. Loads of new collectors will join and they want to complete their series which will drive demand. Of course, prices may be at the current level for another five years…
    I’d say if you have the money to buy a one ounce gold bullion, don’t do it and buy the complete set of numismatic & bullion ATB releases in that year – if you do the math, you get roughly 10 5oz silver coins for the price of a one ounce bullion. Also, if you decide to resell again in a few years, it’ll be easier to sell something for $200 than $2000. That’s just my two cents’ worth! 🙂

  85. fosnock says

    @Frankie – I like your analysis but let me throw a monkey wrench into it…The FS series has lower mintages with the more popular FS coins coming up (Can you say Jackie O). The reverse Buffalo proof already looks like a winner…

  86. Hawkster says

    In regard to the 5 oz. ATB’s, which I do not pursue, I would think the bullion versions would be the ones to obtain. The secondary collector market may be somewhat limited, but they can always be sold for their bullion value down the road. In other words, they are another way of buying and selling bullion.

  87. Shutter says

    The FS series has lower mintages with the more popular FS coins coming up

    FS is different for 3 reasons.
    1. It’s extremely expensive. At current prices it’s more than $7,000 per year.
    2. There are people who object to having individuals on coins. That’s why Presidential Liberty series is of interest to some people who don’t care about FS coins in general.
    3. With 4 exceptions, these individuals are on coins merely because they married some guy who later became presidents. God only knows why Alice Paul is on there. Not really an indication of accomplishment.

  88. Hawkster says

    Shutter:

    Reason #3 is why I never had any interest in these series. These ladies were merely married to the presidents, in some cases obscure presidents. While these ladies may have been fine individuals, they are hardly deserving of being commemorated on a gold coin.

    The only First Spouse that had major accomplishments in her own right was Hillary Clinton. And Hilary might not be done yet.

  89. e says

    i wonder if there will be a reverse proof of the kennedy half dollar next year for the 50th anniversity

  90. george glazener says

    Yeah, sure, lying thru her teeth about Benghazi to get her master re-elected was a pretty slick accomplishment. And let’s not forget the Whitewater scandal. And don’t blame me for being starting this, I’m only replying to an ugly turn in the thread.

  91. Dan in Fla says

    Ugly is in the eye of the beholder.
    The new numbers are out at coinupdate.

  92. Fosnock says

    @Shutter – No argument just throwing it out there, I could not collect the FS coins, but I was tempted to buy a few (those with classical coin designs like Andrew Jackson) when gold was a lot cheaper, but I do collect the ATBs

  93. Fosnock says

    @Shutter – Also given the choice between the reverse buffalo and 10 ATBs, I would have to go with the buffalo

  94. thePhelps says

    Hawkster – I am no Hillary fan either. As for the other FS – there have been many who did very good things while their husbands were president. I mean we are currently fighting obesity one city at a time. In the 80’s we just said no. That said – I have no interest in spending that kind of money on obscure figures attached to a US coin. I thought they should have done them in bronze and called it a day.

    On the other side – I have a very nice set of Dolley Madison commemorative silver dollars that are just beautiful.

  95. Hawkster says

    the Phelps,
    Like her or not, Hillary did serve as Secretary of State. Alright, granted, it was after her stint as First Spouse, not concurrent.
    There have been many women in the private sector that have done good, if not great, things for our country, often unheralded. Many have stepped up to lead the fight against breast cancer, for example. They are the true, unsung heroes.
    And yes, I agree that bronze medallions for the First Spouses would have been more appropriate.

  96. Jon in CT says

    Hawkster wrote on May 21, 2013 at 1:29 pm:
    The only First Spouse that had major accomplishments in her own right was Hillary Clinton.

    It’s clear that US History hasn’t taught very well in schools for the last 20 years.

    Consider First Spouse Edith who married Woodrow in 1915. After he won re-election in 1918 running on the slogan “He kept us out of the war,” she essentially became his Chief of Staff, deciding who and what he saw. After his stroke in 1919, she and his physician were the only people allowed to be with the President. After that point, she was de facto President of the United States and decided which papers Woodrow would sign. One of the rejected designs for her FS coin shows her holding a small document (AKA “check book”) for Woodrow to sign. It was based on the first public picture of him released after his stroke. And not only did she actually run the country for awhile, she was the person most responsible for the passage of the 25th Amendment to the Constitution because she wouldn’t let Woodrow resign after his stroke, which was always cited during the debates about the Amendment’s passage.

  97. high low silver says

    If you want some REAL dirt, just check out what Mary Todd did !……FS ????? No Way !!

  98. george glazener says

    Jon in CT;
    Well said Sir. Yes, indeed, Edith Wilson was a very important part of her husband’s 2nd term. Look at Abigail Adams too, and Dolley Madison. Equals in every way to their husbands. C-Span is doing a wonderful series right now on the First Ladies. Last night they featured Garfield and Arthur, and although Arthur had no proper First Lady, there was no mention of Alice Paul. Interesting..

  99. john says

    the people that got 35000 will pick them,on 6-17-13,off to be grade that night.and on the show the next day.

  100. says

    The final mintage will be determined by the cost of the SP 69 and SP 70
    Sets that are offered by the people who sell these graded sets.
    If they are relatively inexpensive I along with others will buy the graded sets and cancel the ones that are on order there by lowering the final mintage

  101. stephen m says

    Cochisz, the mint may be slow but they do catch on. Be prepared for quicker shipments on this set than were the SF sets.

  102. says

    Stephan,with a September ship date I think I will have plenty of time to
    Cancel if I need to. Also I can take what I. Buy and don’t want to the LCS and he will normally give me cost less shipping.

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