Why Governments and Banks Want to Eliminate Cash


This article was slightly revised at 11:07 a.m. on October 7 to conform to MNB’s editorial style. No substantive content was changed.

In this commentary prepared for RCW Financial, economist Dr. Scott Sumner discusses why governments and banks may be eager to discourage the use of cash, and the resulting potential loss of anonymity and future negative interest rates.

(Irvine, California) — Many governments and banks are discouraging the use of cash, but a problem with a cashless society is a loss of privacy, explains Dr. Scott Sumner, Professor Emeritus of Economics at Bentley University in Waltham, Massachusetts. He points out that Sweden already is moving toward eliminating all coins and paper money, and Italy and Canada are beginning to discourage the use of cash.

Sumner predicts the elimination of cash would make it easier for governments to impose negative interest rates and could lead to increases in values for gold and alternative currency, such as the Bitcoin.

In a commentary prepared on behalf of RCW Financial of Irvine, California, titled, “Why Governments and Banks Want to Eliminate Your Cash,” Sumner wrote about the irony of the push for a cashless society at a time when billions of U.S. dollars are in circulation.

“Surprisingly, despite the increasing use of credit cards, cash holdings are about 8% of gross domestic product, which is actually a larger share of the U.S. economy than a decade ago, indeed even larger than 90 years ago. The amount of cash in circulation (paper currency and coins) is roughly $4,500 for every man, women and child in America. It is believed that roughly half that total is held overseas, but even $2,000 per person would be a surprisingly large figure, far higher than people admit to in government surveys. Ironically, it is this increasing popularity of cash holdings that helps explain why governments are so anxious to discourage the use of cash,” wrote Sumner.

He pointed out that until a few years ago, most economists thought negative interest rates were virtually impossible, but that now is reality in some European countries and Japan.

Another implication of a cashless society is the loss of privacy. “The anonymity of cash is what makes it appealing to many people, but it’s also what makes it increasingly unpopular with governments. They see cash as a way of evading taxes, as well as facilitating drug dealing and other nefarious activities such as terrorism. . . But regardless of how you feel about privacy, this seems to be the direction the world is moving,” Sumner stated.

“The removal of cash would not have a major impact on the overall economy. It would slightly increase the government’s ability to collect taxes, and it would somewhat increase the effectiveness of monetary policy during recessions. Banks would benefit from increased use of credit cards. For investors, it might lead to an increased demand for cash substitutes, such as Bitcoin and precious metals, pushing their price higher.”

Sumner studied economics at the University of Wisconsin and received a PhD from the University of Chicago. He has done extensive research on the role of the gold standard in the Great Depression and is Professor Emeritus of Economics at Bentley University in Waltham, Massachusetts, where he has taught since 1982. Dr. Sumner received national recognition in 2012 as one of the “Top 100 Global Thinkers” by ForeignPolicy.com and was named “The Blogger Who Saved the Economy” by The Atlantic magazine.

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  1. Erik H says

    The east coast of FL, GA and SC are about to be reminded that cash works when the power is out. Where I’m from “cash is king” (but I do like my miles & cash back cards right now).

  2. Sith says

    @Mint News Blog – Nice article, again my only suggestion is to create a new blog for financial matters. World Mint News Blog was formed when foreign coin talk got out of hand in the comments section.

  3. Barry says

    There is a connection to coins imo as a cashless society would most likely include removing them from circulation. If the mint stopped making circulating coins that would be a big deal for the hobby. Who knows what other mint products would no longer be available in a cashless environment..

  4. Erik H says

    Broken System: You deposit $1000 in the bank and you earn $0.01 for the month. Or you spend $1000 and earn $10-$50 depending on what credit card you use. Things that make you go, hum…

  5. cagcrisp says

    P Pucks have lost their Mo Jo. The TR was the Last bastion of hope.

    P puckers are going down the Same road as the FS people. In the middle of a series and you don’t know whether to stop/cut your losses or continue/Hope.

    Hoping beyond hope that Someone Down the Road that has NOT purchased will all of a sudden see the light and bail you out.

    Not a recipe for success…

  6. So Krates says

    One can tell a dud by how many non-regular posters show up here on launch day (also how many total comments). I only saw a few come out of the woodwork yesterday.

  7. Sith says

    @cagcrisp – The “P” pucks lost their mojo in 2011. The only reason they got some of it back in 2012, was the popularity of the Volcanoes design combined with a surprise sellout. That sellout took over three months. The fact that the “P” version had robust sales in 2014 had more to do with the price of silver relative to the “P” pucks. The fact that the some of the 2014 “P” pucks outsold their equivalent bullion reinforces that viewpoint.

  8. So Krates says

    It is next to impossible to make a Discover CC payment with cash. Sears used to own Discover and they still have a relationship. Sears accepts in store payments for Discover but only by personal check (despite the fact that the Sears registers on the floor where you make this payment take cash all day long for all the goods they sell there).They won’t take a money order either. There is only ONE physical Discover branch on Earth. It’s in Delaware and they will accept a cash payment there. If I still had a card and was in the area I’d be tempted to make my payment by dumping a bucket of cents at the teller window. Not just for that reason…they suck on many levels.

  9. Mint News Blog says

    Thanks for the suggestion, Sith — we had a number of commenters about a week ago who said they’d be interested in occasional stories on the cashless society, digital currency, etc. And since the subject came up prominently in the comment thread yesterday, the article seemed apropos. I wrote a post on the Mint’s calendar edits but it seemed a little soft for this venue, so I posted it on Coin Update (located here, if you’re curious: http://news.coinupdate.com/walking-liberty-centennial-gold-coin-on-sale-november-17/). I’m glad you’ve mentioned this, though, because you’ve reminded me of something else I’ve been meaning to post (which I’ll do shortly).

    I do promise not to go off the topic of coins, though, unless there’s a natural opportunity, as was the case today!

    — Diana

  10. cagcrisp says

    The Launch Price of 2012-P Hawaii Volcanoes was $204.95. Price of Silver that day was $33.99/oz. OR the premium to spot Silver was $35.00

    The Launch Price of 2016-P Theodore Roosevelt was $149.95. Price of Silver (London PM fix) was $17.76/oz. OR the premium to spot Silver was $61.15

    As Sith pointed out with Discounts in 2014 the premium to spot Silver for all 4 Discounted P pucks was $40.05-$46.15 on Launch Day…

  11. So Krates says

    Want to FILL your tank and pay with cash? Unless you’re in OR or NJ you must go inside to pay and wait in line with all the scratch-off ticket and slurpee buyers. After you pump, you must go inside AGAIN and que up behind the powerball players and cig buyers to get your change. Good luck paying with FRNs after 10 pm. Inside is closed and the pumps work on plastic only. The war on cash is well underway here.

  12. Tinto says

    I remember a while back when I had to make a cash deposit at a Chase Bank, I was asked to show a state issued ID and my bank account ID. …….. and it was only a few hundred bucks …. wouldn’t be surprised if they took a snapshot of my state issued ID

  13. Buzz Killington says

    I am curious to know what transactions people are involved with that they want to be “private.”

    I bet I have used cash 1 time (at an ethnic food festival) in the last year, and that includes parking meters, which now take credit cards.

    I just don’t understand the parade of horribles that will supposedly occur. Besides, you will also have junk silver and ASEs (or even copper pennies) as a shadow currency, to the extent one is needed on a small scale.

  14. Tinto says


    Good thing I was never a fan of the dull looking “P” pucks aside from the TR “P” puck I have only the 2010 versions bought during the intro period …

  15. VA Dave says

    Walking Liberty Centennial showing up with 17 Nov release date on the US Mint Product Schedule page – no details on mintage or HHL.

  16. Peter says

    Sweden is going cashless very soon. All of their coins and notes will be unusable and will not be able to be exchanged for other forms of money. I imagine they will continue to have some collectability as all “expired” issues have.
    Talk about relying completely on the internet! What if……?

  17. says

    I stop by the bank on Friday to cash my paycheck and leave just enough in my account to cover my online purchases and bills that week, the rest I take in cash and spend.

  18. cagcrisp says

    At Current rate of $149.95 for the remaining 22 P pucks you will have $9,785.20 invested.

    Now $9,785.20 is not a lot for Gold buyers but it’s a Lot for Silver buyers to fork over to buy a complete set and that’s Cost and not Cost +

    …SO…you better hope Silver Jumps Drastically… (Preferably after all purchases have been made)…

  19. So Krates says

    Buzz Killington says, “I am curious to know what transactions people are involved with that they want to be “private.”

    If we told you here, it would no longer be “private” 😉

  20. Rob says

    Once silver gets higher people will be buying up every lower mintage silver piece out there. What other US mint silver coin has a lower mintage than these? You don’t need to buy a whole set to invest in the lower mintages in this series . . .

  21. Felson says

    Buzz… want to see the horrible’s? Look at your bank statement the next time you ponder the future of a cashless society. I was having some issues with my debit card and had pulled the statement from a machine. I got charged $3 for the privilege. I withdrew some cash and the ATM charged me $3 for doing so, and my bank charged me $3 for doing so. Long story short, I don’t use machines anymore unless I absolutely need to. Every transaction on them is a running slot machine for the banks, and if we are cashless you honestly can’t believe that will be less and not more of the same.

  22. ...John Q. Coinage says

    Hate the idea of a ca$hless world, bad enough old ladies still writing $5.44 checks @ Kroger (last WEEK wow!) , cash for ammo, bullion & coins, booze (market club knows, don’t fall in store they’ll say YOU’RE a drunk after watching you buy Thunderbird!) whatever. I am real oldschool, NEVER have used a debit card, don’t do check/bill pay, no Iphone (my family hates that) & I
    m not even 6o, the world is changin fast & I feel in 100-15 years THESE DAYS will be the good old days….let’s see if they can even kill the penny b4 they eliminate anything….

  23. says

    The girls I see at Adult Entertainment places love cash….

    Diana,, I think your article about a cashless world was appropriate. It’ perfectly fine to go outside the box occassionally…..as many posters on this site do. Well done!

  24. Qui Transtulit Sustinet says

    Who NEEDS a “complete set” of a long-running US Mint series?

    That mentality is the antithesis of a more rational “buy what you like” approach to collecting.

    Gee, maybe rigidly anal proclivities aren’t all that productive, financially or psychologically…not a surprise to me.

    I’ve purchased the bullion and ‘P’ pucks I like, in the quantity I like, since 2012, and have a per ounce cost basis around $27. (Yes, I know the current price of silver.)

    I ‘m satisfied with that admittedly moving target price point while I enjoy collecting some beautifully designed pucks with meaning for me and wait for silver to rise closer to highs seen in the recent (measured in years, not months) past.

    Again, if long term financial gain is your goal you might want to consider collecting and enjoying coins you like (PM and otherwise), while investing in stocks (especially those that pay a sustainable, rising dividend) you consider to be temporarily under valued in the current market.

  25. Mike says

    I hear the argument “if you’re not doing anything illegal, then you have nothing to fear if someone is watching what you do.”

    That’s a slippery slope that leads right down to Big Brother watching (and controlling) everything we do. There’s no reason that the government should be aware of everything I spend my money on. Last time I checked, this was supposed to be a free society, but that is really not the case and will continue not to be the case with changes like going to a cashless society.

    Yes I sound paranoid but just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they aren’t after you. Based on the history of big governments in general, and ours in particular, no good can come from them monitoring us 24/7. Macarthy-ism happened here, remember? No reason it can’t happen again.

    And for the argument “we need to monitor everyone to prevent terrorism.”

    How about, we need not to go and start wars all over the world and keep them running 24/7? Surest way to piss people off is to go and kill a bunch of them ongoingly. I think being peaceful to our neighbors would go a lot farther than our current policies.

    Sorry this became a political rant but since when is money not connected to politics?

    Love the blog; thanks for welcoming me.


  26. gatortreke says

    I concur that this topic is very appropriate for a mint blog and am enjoying reading the comments related to it. Cashless is great in theory and works well under normal circumstances but as we know, circumstances aren’t always normal so we need to have a way to operate when the digital systems don’t function properly.

    I work in the records preservation field and we see more and more public records such as court, marriage, real estate, etc… being created in digital format only, the equivalent of cashless in their respective fields. How comfortable are we as a society with legal records being only a digital record? Any disruption to this whether it be something significant such as an EMP (electro-magnetic pulse) or something more traditional as loss of record due to format change can ultimately become a community and personal disaster. Digital is great for ease of access and I love it for that but as a means of records preservation, it is unproven to stand the test of time. Much of this holds true for our finances in a cashless world. Will it hold up in a time of crisis?

  27. Jeff says

    Cc my take buying silver coins is like buying a car . Immediately 25% depreciation if not more. Opposed,to the mint will there 40%-60% hijacking of good paying tax payers. BOYCOTT THE MINT STOP BUY ING THERE BS.

  28. Buzz Killington says

    I take SK’s point, but I am looking for an example of something. Tipping an exotic dancer is a fine example of something that money is needed for, but THEN AGAIN in my last forays into establishments where such ladies worked, they wanted you to buy “chips” at the counter to use as your tips. Why? Of course, so the house could collect a portion of the tips. I’m not sure if this trend is continuing, but it is perhaps the only example I can imagine of something negative from a “cashless” society.

    I don’t know what secret activities you are involved in, but the idea comes in with bigger transactions, like millions of dollars in illicit transactions. That is why $100 is the largest FRN, to make these transactions more difficult, but they are still possible. Surely even the most paranoid of you would see some value in that.

    Not that we can ever abolish illicit transactions, but the idea is to make them more difficult, and trackable. If you think the government really cares about your penny-ante carryings-on, I think narcissism is more to the point than paranoia.

    And by the way, I do think that a Visa/Mastercard-TYPE system would have to be nationalized, basically as a utility, as part of a true transition to a cashless society. Without that, the banks could really take advantage of us. (I haven’t used an ATM card since 1997).

  29. gatortreke says

    Buzz, you obviously don’t spend your Saturday mornings on the Garage Sale circuit where cash rules! 🙂

    There are many personal finance experts who advise using cash as a means to control spending. There is a psychological disconnect in spending using a debit/credit card versus using something visible and tangible such as cash. Just another factor to consider.

  30. cagcrisp says

    I’m a gambler and a stock picker. Stocks no problem with cashless society. It’s already that way. Gambling completely different. With current tax code there isn’t any form of gambling that I partake that could function IF Current tax codes are Enforced the way the Code is written.

    …SO…for me if we go cashless, tax codes would have to be changed at exactly the time the switch is flipped. Flip before cashless and gamblers would have a tremendous advantage and wait to long and gamblers would be taxed to a point that you couldn’t be profitable (legally)…

  31. Louis says

    For anyone with a serious interest in this topic there is a new book called “The Curse of Cash” by economist Kenneth Rogoff. I read a review recently that gave me the impression his argument in favor of going cashless was not very convincing at least to me, but it is provocative. Rather than read the book I will read a 3 page except that appears in the Oct. issue of a UK magazine I like called “Prospect.”

  32. Louis says

    Consider that if cash were eliminated completely, and all currency was digital, not only would it be much easier to impose negative interest rates, but it would also be much easy to revalue our currency. Imagine waking up one day and you discover that the new dollar is worth 10% of the old dollar that existed yesterday. The federal debt goes down by 90%, but all your savings in cash are also reduced by 90%.

    Also regarding privacy, a major reason cash should exist is not because some people are doing bad or illegal things, or even to tip adult workers or waiters, etc, but rather because we are all entitled to live our lives without having every single transaction we engage in tracked and recorded in a database. There is simply too much potential for this info. to be abused through hacking, employees who misuse it for bad purposes, etc. Not to mention that while I of course use plastic, I also like to use cash for certain things because it tends to make me think more about the money I am spending and less inclined to spend what I should not.

  33. Sith says

    @Diana – I find the article very appropriate, but only mention some will find it off topic for a Mint News Blog.

    @Buzz Killington – I get cash discounts all the time. Have you ever notice the increase in price when you use a credit card to buy bullion? Its to cover the added expense the card charges for the sale. Most small retailers will gladly give you a 1% or 2% discount when you pay in cash. Now imagine the cost of a translation when you have to use your credit card for everything.

    Not convinced, well ATM fees would be a ting of the past, no need to get the cash, but when the Fed introduces NIRP, their is no way to protect your money. Sure you can use “junk silver and ASEs (or even copper pennies) as a shadow currency,” assuming the business\person your dealing with accepts them. As it stands today my local supermarket could careless about the spot price of silver of copper. They would hoverer take my junk silver at face value. I would rather pay them in fiat.

    I know in this day and age when everyone posts what they had for breakfast on Facebook, or has to send a Twitter about how stinky their last bowel movement was, it must be a surprise to want hide translations, but here are a few of mine, giving money to a friend or family, friendly bet on a football game,..

  34. Goat says

    Thanks Diana for more information.

    @Stith, I consider myself as a collector/hoarder/completest and very few U.S. coins I have missed since 1982, I enjoy the history and teaching others. If this country follow’s Sweden, Japan, and many other foreign countries, coins will be gone. Sweden of all countries (the leader of stored money for many years) is going cashless. The U.S. mint making a public statement this year about the hobby. Makes me ask questions.
    Thanks to all for posting a their view all views are welcome.

    The history of paper currency for all time for all people/countries has always failed. In 1934 (when paper was switched to “notes” not backed by gold/silver) had one kept $100 paper (not looking at collector value) it would be worth around $5 net value today ($95 loss) due to inflation. In 1934 had one kept $100 worth of gold ($35/oz.) collector coins it would be worth around $3610.28 today that’s net profit of $3510.28 not a bad return. Banks and Fed don’t want people to know this information so they give you interest and smooth talk to take you in a loosing direction (DEBT) for their gain. The gold return is and was the safest most boring way to increase wealth in our time. (This formula is close but not exact.)

    I think cashless or some form of change will happen we only have $5 left out of $100 in paper currency. If the government takes cashless it will not be responsible for FDIC (can’t guaranty if they don’t have it) but rumors a few years ago, was AMERO currency, that would have taken other countries to make that happen.

    The reason for the switch will be for the top 3-5% of rich people benefit, but what are they doing is the question. Some say government is setting up another form of taxation (that I can believe). The question is our U.S. gold reserves been sold and that’s opposite of what had been done in 1933 or will they confiscate to replenish. Then the question is what type of gold to hold, back in “33” bullion was taken. Looking back in close history, (past 125 yrs) what was done might not happen again because it’s too close to our memory.

    I was able to talk to many people that went thru the depression as adults, it was very tough on many families. My opinion is diversify; land/raise livestock , (gold, silver, platinum bullion/proof) and learn how to grow/preserve food, hunt/fish and with friends/family every day should be a good day.

    OH !!! VA Bob yea I grew up in the country hunting/fish/farm/livestock and yes your are right Pellet (1000 fps) .22 , 20/16/12 ga. inline muzzleloader’s rifled and shot , .44 and last of all .308 and my knowledge is reloading and hoarded many supplies. (some say if it goes off at once we will build one sq. mile pond many feet deep). Bob, others here on the blog and my Dad thanks for your service !

  35. Sith says

    @Buzz Killington – And I forgot about identify theft…now you can always run to the bank, but if their is no cash, and your cards (or worst your SSN) are stolen or compromised, how do you buy anything for the 3 or 4 days (being generous,) it takes to get things straighten out.

  36. bobo says

    Eliminating cash guarantees big brother’s total control of you. Get out of line or dissent, poof go your digital credits and you starve. It is immoral, since it gives too much power to evil bankers and the gov’t to control and surveil even more. Fight this by paying in cash as much as possible. They say they want to be able to impose negative interest rates, so need to close the cash escape route. But neg. rates are also immoral, because they equal confiscation against one’s will.

  37. bobo says

    It is also unconstitutional, since the constitution demands gold or silver:

    “Art. I Sec. 8 Cl. 5
    [Congress shall have Power … ] To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, …;
    Art. I Sec. 10 Cl. 1
    [No State shall …] make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; …

    Note that there is no such prohibition against Congress, or any delegated power to make anything legal tender. Congress was originally understood to have no power to make anything legal tender outside of federal territories, under Art. I Sec. 8 Cl. 17 and Art. IV Sec. 3 Cl. 2, but in 1868 a Supreme Court packed by Pres. Ulysses S. Grant, in the Legal Tender Cases, allowed Congress to make paper currency issued by the U.S. Treasury, backed by gold, legal tender on state territory, a precedent that remains controversial to this day, when courts allow paper currency not backed by anything to be considered “legal tender”.”
    see: http://www.constitution.org/cs_money.htm

  38. Buzz Killington says

    @Louis — How exactly does cashless society make it easier to devalue a currency? They can devalue an electronic dollar as easily as a paper one. If you are worried about such things, you are welcome to buy and hold commodities, although I don’t understand the end game for that kind of thinking.

    @Sith — You don’t get “cash” discounts for buying bullion, you get those discounts for not using a credit card. Electronic checks, bank wires, and paper checks sent through the mail all have the same effect. Again, if we did convert to a cashless society, there would have to be a nationalized payment processor, that would be funded by the costs of printing up all this paper money, and making all of these circulation coins.

    We can give money to friends using PayPal now, and there is no scrutiny to that. I just went to an artisan craftsman to commission a project, and I paid her using the swipe of my credit card in something attached to an iphone.

    I would actually welcome trackable transactions. I don’t have all the details worked out to put a system in place today, but the proceeds of “identity theft” would also be trackable in a cashless society, making it a less attractive endeavor. I keep reading about thieves now trying to get money on iTunes gift cards, because they are not trackable. In a way, I call that progress.

  39. Louis says

    @Buzz- To devalue or revalue it a country with cash, you have to print new currency, coins, etc. I did not say whether or not I am worried about that, I merely mentioned it is a possibility. It has happened before in many countries and could happen again. It does not have to come from the government also. It can come from the market if/when people lose faith in the dollar. When the next banking crisis hits, and there will be one for sure, it may be so large that we won’t be able to print our way out of it without destroying the credibility of the dollar, and devaluation may be the only way out of the crisis.

  40. Doug says

    So when do we get first day sales numbers for the TR 5 oz. puck? Doesn’t someone usually post it here the next day? If your the one, thanks for the information.

  41. says

    Doug….you beat me to it…..and i do wonder why those that are always throwing out stats, don’t have any info yet..

    I think first day sales will be around 15,000….and final sales will be around 22,000

    I think the bullion version is the best buy.

  42. Louis says

    No, first day sales have not been released. They normally only do that for a major, high profile coin.

    For those who are so quick to draw broad conclusions from the start of sales of the TR puck, remember that trends and patterns take time to assert themselves. Insight requires patience.

  43. Hawkster says

    So Krates,
    Do your panhandling profits go toward buying collectible coins?

    In regard to those who strive to complete modern coin series such as the ATB “P” pucks or the FS golds: This, as a previous poster stated, goes against the “buy what you like” philosophy of many collectors. Why spend large, and I’m talking thousands of dollars, for the sake of having a complete set? Is there something truly wonderful about having a complete FS set? I guess, for some collectors, there is. Perhaps it fills a deep seated need.
    I grew to like the ATB “P” 5 oz coins–but only buy the ones that have meaning to me. For example the present TR offering has meaning to me because I have visited his Oyster Bay, L. I. home (Sagamore Hill) and I have hiked up Mt. Marcy in New York’s Adirondack Mountains—the same mountain TR was on when he got word that President McKinley was shot in Buffalo.
    I’m sure some of the ATB quarters have meaning to all the posters on this Blog, typically through visits to the more popular NP sites.

  44. marketcycology says

    Over the past twenty years there have been mint issues that were unpopular due to market saturation which judging by many comments on the P pucks is becoming true for them. Here is a list of Mint modern commems which seems to indicate, in some cases at least, that numerical rarity can lead to the “why didn’t I buy that coin” syndrome. In the case of the coins of the ’96 Olympics it took a period of time for that realization to set in. Some of the others may still remain unpopular because either they are considered ugly or contain unpopular subject matter.
    Description Mintage Limit Year Mint Original US Mint Price 2017 Blue Book
    Paralympics-Wheelchair 14,497 1996 D $30.00 $145.00
    High Jump 15,697 1996 D $30.00 $150.00
    Tennis 15,983 1996 D $30.00 $130.00
    Rowing 16,258 1996 D $30.00 $145.00
    Cycling 19,662 1995 D $29.00 $85.00
    Community Service 23,500 1996 S $30.00 $72.00
    Civil Rights Act 24,720 2014 P $44.95 $36.00
    Track and Field 24,976 1995 D $29.00 $48.00
    Leif Ericson 28,150 2000 P $30.00 $45.00
    National Law Enforcement 28,575 1997 P $30.00 $75.00
    Paralympics-Blind Runner 28,649 1995 D $29.00 $28.00
    Jackie Robinson 30,180 1997 S $30.00 $50.00

  45. gatortreke says

    It is interesting to note that Germany has been a reluctant user of digital currency, many preferring the use of cash over credit. I read or saw something earlier this week (probably Coin World) where the German government even today will accept Deutsch Marks for exchange, something many/most of the other Euro countries will no longer do. It would seem the banning of cash in Germany is not a near term concern.

    I would guess that if a cashless society were forced upon us, an alternative form of currency would naturally evolve, there are too many people who are opposed to the central government having that much control over our individual lives and who would reject the move to credit only.

  46. Barry says

    @bobo/Louis- I really appreciate your posts regarding the cashless society. I’m surprised by those who would want this system forced on many who oppose it including myself. People are free already to avoid using cash if they so choose. Many believe the media propaganda campaign taking us in that direction. Let’s not give up any more of our freedoms as we have lost so many already.

  47. says

    I’m not worried about the BIG BANKS push for removing our cash, because I think most folks would reject the idea of no cash. Black markets would spring up overnight and people like me would close their bank accounts and refuse to have anything to do with BANKS and their virtual currencies because it all comes down to whether or not we accept it.


  48. Buzz Killington says

    I am half-way through that New Yorker piece, which is a good one.

    In reading it, I am also reminded of hearing about the difficulty of the “legal” hemp businesses in Colorado, where banks won’t do business with them, so they necessarily must deal in cash, and what a hassle it is for them.

    A cashless society is coming, probably before the end of most of our lifetimes. Let’s hope we have a people’s champion, someone like Elizabeth Warren, around when they develop these systems, to make sure there are a minimum of unfairnesses built into the system.

  49. Dustyroads says

    longarm and all……. I’m not worried about any banks removing cash because they have already succeeded in doing that almost completely. What I worry more about is the greed and lust behind the smiling faces greeting you when you walk into your financial institution. Don’t start thinking they love you. And don’t start thinking they don’t talk behind closed doors about what they could do with all that collateral of yours they’re holding. They want it, they need it, and they are plotting against you…believe it. I know, I’ve been through it twice. I have looked in the faces of men and women who think they had me in the bag. How could I get out, after all …..I’d been black listed. There’s no possible way I can get out of their net. Not so I say! You have to ALWAYS keep this in mind; when dealing with bankers never let them have the upper hand. You have to always have something they don’t know about…an ace in the hole. Take my word for it…never let them have that upper hand!!

    Personally…I like the AtB 5 oz’ers. Much cheaper than others from other Mints.

  50. Jerry Diekmann says

    So Kratess – You brought up a name I never hear anymore – “Sears”. Back when I was a kid and a young man many years ago, Sears (or Sears Roebuck as it was then known, was just about the only department store in town. My folks used to drive “downtown”, back in the days before malls, to buy just about everything appliances, school clothes, etc. at Sears. And they bought their insurance from Sears, which then also owned Allstate. Through some of the most stupid managing this side of Eastman Kodak (remember them?), Sears decided to divest Allstate. Worse – their senior management decided to get rid of all their salespeople, and just have cashiers, usually young people working for little more than a minimum wage and who couldn’t answer any questions about any of their products. Their auto and appliance services got a bad reputation for poor quality and service. Finally, they even eliminated their catalog stores, which is where I use to buy their big and tall products. Other companies like Penney’s, LL Bean, and other companies gladly scooped up the customers that Sears had cut loose. Other companies liked Nordstrom took away a lot of their business because they kept sales people on the floor to help customers who had questions. Eventually Sears was finally taken over by KMart, not noted for being the greatest shopping experience, and it changed its name – now it’s just Sears Holdings, and I predict it will be gone from the scene in a dew more years.

  51. Buzz Killington says

    @Jerry — To think of Nordstroms as a successor to Sears, this boggles the mind of someone from my generation.

    You are 100% right that Allstate turned out to be much more profitable than Sears retail empire. The question is whether it could have thrived as it has if it were a part of Sears still. I think that their eventual divorce was a foregone conclusion, at some time or another.

  52. says

    I agree completely and I’ve got a feeling the next crisis is going to be a doozie and hopefully will expose the BIG BANKS and the criminals that run them for what they are and the harm they’ve done to this country.

  53. Dustyroads says

    JD, It’s my understanding that Sears bought out Kmart. Incidentally, I’ve noticed that Kmart is closing some of their stores. In all actuality, I’m surprised it hasn’t happen sooner.

  54. Erik H says

    Thanks SK,

    I Didn’t realize that Sweden had such a crime problem. I’ve lived in some of the world’s biggest cities and fortunately have never had any problems but after reading that article I guess I’m glad I never went to Sweden.

  55. MarkInFlorida says

    So Krates, I use a Discover Card for all my US Mint purchases, including the gold proof sets, and when I want to pay with cash, I go to my bank and buy a cashier’s check for $3000 or a money order for $1000, and mail it to Discover with my payment coupon. Same with APMEX, Provident, etc. PO sells money orders for cash too, if you don’t have a bank account. And if you don’t want to stand in line a second time for change when paying cash for your gas, just give them $20 or $40 and take that much gas.

  56. Dustyroads says

    longarm, I’ve met with Federal heads who have unequivocally considered one particular banks practices to be illegal, and illegitimate. But the bank is still around today and has wanted my business back since 2010.

  57. Jerry Diekmann says

    Dustyroads – Your comment about the big banks is right on. They will do everything in their power to screw you. it’s not even ten years ago that the banks caused the Great Recession, and now we have the biggest bank of them all, Wells Fargo, cheating customers once again. The big banks need to be broken up because they are ravenously greedy and dishonest, and their greed and dishonesty could very well cause another Great Depression, one that the government can’t get out just by printing more money, which was done to cope with the economic disaster that the banks caused. The next time could result in a devaluation of our money, something that has never happened before in our nation’s history. Also, the leaders of the banks need to forfeit their ill-gotten wealth and serve long prison sentences. Maybe then the cheating will stop, or at least slow down. Andrew Jackson may have been wrong in ho he treated native Americans, but he was certainly right in how he felt and dealt with big banks.

  58. So Krates says

    @ Louis – I have heard the modern Gentlemen’s clubs have transitioned to” funny money” in lieu of cash. The last establishment I was in was about a decade ago. A lady friend of mine and I visited the famous Bada-Bing club and Cash was still King so I don’t even know what these chips? look like. I do however have a few different 1970s Peep Show tokens in my collection. There is a small market on eBay for them. Adult themed silver rounds and especially “art” bars also do quite well. If you see any of these with T& A on them you can always make some money flipping them if you buy close to spot.

    As for panhandling, I’ve heard the folks in my area make $60-$80 a day. There was a news story about a fast food owner who offered two young males who were panhandling outside his store a job. They both turned him down because they said they made more getting handouts.

  59. Jerry Diekmann says

    Hawkster – I have to agree with your comments – it is only up to the buyer if he or she wants to complete any set of coins. Having collected coins for a long time, I grew up with the notion that a set of coins was not really finished or “complete” until you had filled in all the coins in the Whitman blue book. So that meant that you needed to find or buy a 1909S VDB and 1914D Lincoln cent for your penny collection. Fine, but such a set can be complete without “errors” not prominently portrayed in the Red Book, lie the 1922 “plain” or the 1955 DDO. Same for Buffalo nickels – you don’t need a 1937 3-legged buffalo for a complete set, or a 1942/41P or D for the Winged Liberty head dime. And for most collectors, some of the Buffalo branch mint nickels are very expensive and the 1916D and 1921P & D dimes are very expensive too. For me, I don’t have to have a “complete” set to be satisfied . Others, however, may have to fill that hole. To each his own.

    For modern coins, especially sets of expensive coins like the FS gold coins and the 5 oz. silver pucks, I think cagcrisp is telling it like it is – these coins are very, very expensive to complete a set, and moreover, probably at least half of the coins in each set aren’t really that well designed in the first place or depict people or places that have little importance in American history and geography. I’m glad I never collected either set. Oh, I did buy the Jackie Kennedy FS coin and thought about buying the TR puck, but then passed on it, as I have the PDS quarters and the proof clad and silver quarters, and that’ enough – for me, at least. I never could understand why a 1 oz. silver bullion coin has a stated value of $1.00 , while a 5 0z. silver coin has a stated value of 25 cents. The logic was totally gone, which was one reason I never bought any pucks. Also, like cagcrisp has said, those who bought every FS gold coin or silver 5 oz. puck are way under water on their purchases now. PM prices would have to rise substantially for any of those buyers to make a profit on their collections. I imagine, though, that most of these buyers have no intentions of ever selling their collections.

  60. So Krates says

    @ Buzz Killington – I think the banks in Washington, Oregon and Colorado would love to have all that Marijuana Dispensary business but the Feds have threatened them if they even try it. Some legislators from those states are trying to get something passed to allow the banks to open accounts and alleviate the “burden” these businesses have dealing in cash ONLY.

    I agree with your points especially concerning penny ante narcissism, lol, but as Mike says above, the slope is indeed a slippery one.

  61. So Krates says

    @ Erik H – I can’t tell if you’re being serious. You don’t really think Sweden is a dangerous place do ya? I’ve done no research and I haven’t been, but I’d bet you a Mint Gift Bag that it’s way safer in Stockholm (even after the refugee influx) than in any comparable US city. It’s probably helpful for the cashless proponents to hype up street crime and big heists as they market their system as a way to reduce these problems.

  62. Buzz Killington says

    @SK — No *doubt* the banks would love to get in bed with the weed-sellers, and why not? I understand the problem is this pesky federal law, subjecting anything they touch to forfeiture. I was just reminded of the incredible inconvenience of doing business this way when thinking about the “cash is king” folks. In volume, it is definitely not king.

    I have never been a fan of “slippery slope” arguments not to do something good, because something bad might happen later. This has historically been an argument in favor of various kinds of speech restrictions, against which I think we have to be ever-vigilant as a society.

    When it comes to the phasing out of cash, I hope we are smart enough to figure out how to do it fairly when it happens, but I don’t think it is around the corner.

  63. So Krates says

    Mark in Florida says, “PO sells money orders for cash too, if you don’t have a bank account. And if you don’t want to stand in line a second time for change when paying cash for your gas, just give them $20 or $40 and take that much gas.”

    Yep the USPS loves to take your money and sell you a MO but ever try cashing one? You can drive to 5 different post offices before you find one (if you’re Lucky) to cash a $300-$400 money order.

    I like to track my MPG so if I don’t FILL the tank then I can’t calculate it. Sometimes though I do just what you say. If the cashier at my regular station recognizes me then I can just pump and pay when finished.

  64. So Krates says

    @ Hawkster – The truth is for folks who aren’t part of the 47%, panhandling is harder than it looks. I tried it once in 1992 and getting over one’s pride is tough. It was more of a social experiment for me and I retired after only an hour or two. I suppose if you kept at it or were more desperate than I was, you would eventually get over it. But for some it would never be easy.

    Thanks for the TR tidbit. I’ve been up on Mt. Marcy and did not know that. I will have to read up on the details

  65. Koichi Ito says

    One solution to this problem is Bitcoin? Since Bitcoin is a cyber-currency, it require no paper money or coin.

  66. Dustyroads says

    So Krates, I didn’t mention the name of the bank because it was a smaller bank going through a transfer of ownership at the time. They had found a discrepancy in the books, a misallocation of 4 million dollars. The President of the acquiring bank was so unhappy that he raised his voice at the stock holders meeting and accused everyone there of buying pools instead of servicing their loans. Needless to say I was furious when hearing this. The trouble seemed to begin after they fired the loan officers and hired new ones. I’ve come to believe that is a sign of when trouble is in the air.

  67. bobo says

    Mike Maloney’s most recent video about why you need to get out of digital and paper pseudo-money and into actual money (PMs) is just excellent:
    I highly recommend all his previous six videos on youtube as well.

    See, the elite regards the world as THEIR farm, and you as their debt/tax sheep.So you need to be penned into their digital banking pen/scam asap, so they can shear you completely. Don’t be a stupid sheep for their shearing operation, allowing them to get rich off your labor. Educate yourself. Start with the Maloney videos, then read zerohedge, then sovereignman. Spread the word of freedom before we all become the internat’l bankers’ serfs. Cash is central to human privacy and freedom, and eliminating it is central to their plan to rule the world.

  68. Hawkster says

    Jerry D.,
    Thanks for expanding on my point in regard to collecting coin sets or series. You certainly bring home the point about many ATB quarters suffering from less than stellar designs and having little importance or significance to the overall history of our nation. This will only happen with more frequency in the latter stages of this series as we see more and more obscure NP sites depicted on these coins.
    Another situation: collecting, for example, proof silver eagle by date. Now, I have all of these silver eagles, beginning with the first year of 1986. Why? Because I like these and just automatically buy one every year. But, if this series continues well into the future I might not be around to see the series to completion. My set, therefore, would never be “complete” because of the possibility of me expiring before the series expires. That scenario obviously played out with many deceased collectors of long term series coins such as the Lincoln cent and Washington quarter.

  69. Felson says

    Hawkster… if you had every available coin when you passed away… your set was complete. The fact that you passed away doesn’t change that fact simply because the mint didn’t acknowledge your passing and ending the series…

  70. Mint News Blog says

    @Louis, you beat me to it — I was just about to weigh in and mention “The Curse of Cash.” I was reading an interesting review of the book a few weeks ago; I’ll have to track it down and share it.

  71. cagcrisp says

    When Goat first asked his question about a cashless society, he asked “The big question is what is the best way if we go into a cashless society ?

    SO far Most have opined the merits of a cashless society and have not answered the question he asked. Regardless of what you WANT to happen, it will either happen or it will not. The question that Goat asked is what is the best way IF we go into a cashless society?

    1. Old gold/silver ?
    2. Bullion/proof gold/silver ?
    3. New gold/silver ?
    4. Or just any gold/silver that has weight/value amount with low premium to spot ?
    5. Sell all high premium and buy low premium for quantity ?

    Try to put aside your For vs. Against a cashless society and try to help those that will actually be facing a cashless society in the future.

    For me it’s not a question of IF but When and I have been preparing for it for years. IF it Doesn’t happen, I’m Golden. IF it Does happen, I HOPE I’ve got the right strategy but I have NO idea If I will be the correct one or not…

  72. Mark Rex says

    Both my finance and I both order from the US Mint. We have 2 address for our home and I use one and she uses the other. Today in the mail she received a large postcard from the US Mint. She orders (I order for her) way less than I do for myself also to note. I haven’t received this post card yet myself. On the front of the post card it reads “2016 UNITED STATES MINT SET’ and ‘SILVER PROOF SET’. On the back the right hand section has the address info (sent to) and on the left it just has some info about the Mint and Proof Set. However below that it says;
    Order TODAY and enjoy FREE SHIPPING with this code;
    (code here)

    Has anyone else received this postcard and code? Is it good for just one order? Will the code work for others? Ill pass the code along after I use it if it still works.

    Something interesting from the US Mint.

  73. cagcrisp says

    Here is an Exact Spot Gold comparison for Some Old Gold that I track …

    03/26/16 Spot Gold was $1,257.80
    Today Spot Gold is listed @ $1,257.80…

    Same Spot Gold price as 202 days ago.

    03/26/16 MS62 $20.00 Liberty was $1,366.92
    10/08/16 MS62 $20.00 Liberty is $1,397.89 +$30.97

    03/26/16 MS62 $10.00 Liberty was $748.52
    10/08/16 MS62 $10.00 Liberty is $724.01 -$24.51

    03/26/16 MS62 $5.00 Liberty was $439.00
    10/08/16 MS62 $5.00 Liberty is $424.50 -$14.50

    03/26/16 MS62 $2.50 Liberty was $359.99
    10/08/16 MS62 $2.50 Liberty is $409.99 +$50.00

    03/26/16 cleaned $20.00 Liberty was $1,281.92
    10/08/16 cleaned $20.00 Liberty is $1,297.89 +$15.97

    03/26/16 cleaned $10.00 Liberty was $648.52
    10/08/16 cleaned $10.00 Liberty is $659.01 +$10.49

    03/26/16 cleaned $5.00 Liberty was $354.26
    10/08/16 cleaned $5.00 Liberty is $364.50 +$10.24

    03/26/16 cleaned $2.50 Liberty was $277.07
    10/08/16 cleaned $2.50 Liberty is $302.19 +$25.12

  74. Mint News Blog says

    @Doug and @Steve, I’ve been on the prowl for the first-day figures but haven’t seen anything yet. Once I see some numbers from a reliable source, I’ll post them ASAP!

  75. Barry says

    If you look at what APMEX and JM Bullion are asking for the pucks it is difficult for me to see how anyone is underwater on them . My suggestion for those underwater is to lower your average cost and buy the bullion pucks with good designs soon after they come out. If I’m missing something please comment.

  76. Buzz Killington says

    I can’t believe a bullion salesman like Mike Maloney would tell me I need to give him all of my useless fiat dollars in exchange for gold. Why is he putting my survival ahead of his own?

  77. Louis says

    Seems like this is the topic du jour. The Oct. 1 Coin Dealer Newsletter monthly supplement has an essay on cashless society. I am not a subscriber but receive a weekly e-mail which includes the essays but not the coin prices.

  78. Louis says

    Thanks, Barry. I agree on the pucks at least the bullion, which are low risk buys. I still have most of the bullion and P pucks I have purchased, but apart from the 2010 coins, which were sold when silver was close to twice its current value, I have made a decent profit on any others that I sold.

  79. Louis says

    Diana- Not sure if you saw the same review, but the one I read was in the Washington Post recently.

  80. Louis says

    I think the 10/1 CDN report I mentioned really states the issues very well. This is the full essay by Patrick Ian Perez, which covers virtually all the points discussed above and connects them to the coin business:

    “Much has been written in recent months about something inherently important in the rare coin business: cash. Variably called the “war on cash”, a “cashless society,” or “the curse of cash”, it is a hot topic with wide reaching consequences. In this article I examine arguments on both sides and its potential impact for our rare coin industry.

    The primary arguments cited by those who wish to gradually reduced the use and issuance of circulating coinage, or cash are:
    • Large denomination notes are largely used to facilitate illegal activity
    • Most average consumers do not use cash in large transactions
    • Less physical cash in circulation gives greater control to policy makers to effect economic change

    In a recent Wall Street Journal article (August 27, 2016), Kenneth Rogoff, author of the recently published book, “The Curse of Cash,” declares that “there is little debate among law-enforcement agencies that paper currency, especially large notes such as the U.S. $100 bill, facilitates crime: racketeering, extortion, money laundering, drug and human trafficking, the corruption of public officials, not to mention terrorism.” He goes on to say that “cash is also deeply implicated in tax evasion, which costs the federal government some $500 billion a year in revenue.” Of course illicit activity does involve large amounts of cash, usually in the form of $100 bills, but does the availability of cash encourage crime? In this line of thinking, any business or industry that deals in large amounts of physical currency – such as the coin business – is discriminatorily guilty of illegal activity. While it is the responsibility of dealers to file proper paperwork on cash transactions when necessary, it is not for us to determine the source of the cash.

    While it is true that the overwhelming amount of daily transactions in this country are facilitated by credit or debit card, many small- and medium-sized business owners conduct their business in cash. By brushing this off with the oft-cited quote “no one carries cash anymore,” a whole segment of American business is marginalized. If a business owner does not want to subject themselves to fees imposed by credit card processing companies, why does their government force them to do it by limiting how much cash is available for their customers to spend? As it is, cash transactions already have many restrictions. To my mind, it comes down to personal freedom.

    Another primary argument used to eliminate large denomination notes comes in the form of fiscal policy which really gets to the heart of the matter. Since 2008, heads of central banks around the world have taken unprecedented actions in order to repair their economies. It began with quantitative easing (QE), an expansionary monetary policy in which a central bank (e.g. the Federal Reserve) buys assets from private banks for cash with the intent that the banks increase their outgoing loan activity, thus increasing the money supply. QE also drives up the prices of the assets the Fed is buying because they are being taken off the market. This is beyond standard monetary policy, which usually involves raising or lowering the federal funds rate. Such actions were necessary because the interest rates were already approaching zero, so standard tools were no longer effective. Multiple rounds of QE have proven to be less than impressive. While equity prices bounce along at all-time highs, the goal of banks’ lending to corporations for capital expenditures and hiring has not been realized. Rather, many large corporations have used the cash to repurchase their own stock, further bolstering their share prices, with no obvious benefit to the greater economy. Furthermore, as central banks buy up investment-grade bonds and other assets at a furious pace, liquidity problems are created in the market. The CB’s have created a viscous feedback loop by which they are now paralyzed to increase rates at the risk of sending the stock market falling through the floor. The perfect example of this dilemma can be seen in Japan, who’s jittery stock market and currency can skyrocket or plummet every time the Bank of Japan speaks.

    As a result, global policy makers are left with few obvious next-steps, and their new solution is negative interest rates. As it stands, more than $13 trillion of government bonds worldwide are trading with negative yield. According to one interest rate historian, these negative bond yields “are the first in at least 5,000 years.” Additionally, yield on bank deposits in Switzerland are negative and commercial banks in Europe must pay the ECB to hold its deposits. When faced with the fact that one has to pay a bank to simply hold their money, most rational investors would simply withdraw and hold the cash themselves. Of course, most of this would be held in the largest denomination available, simply for size, storage, and weight concerns. To policy makers, this is the crux of the problem. To greatly decrease the possibility of bank runs leading to a banking crisis, the elimination of high denomination notes would force citizens to keep the majority of their cash in electronic from. While this is done by virtually everyone today, the freedom to go to a bank and withdraw one’s entire account is a still possibility. If the $100 bill did not exist, this option becomes nearly impossible. In the theory of economists such as Rogoff, once a person’s deposits are costing them to be held, they will consume and invest, rather than save. This essentially amounts to a tax on cash holdings. In their view, driving consumption is the only way out of a recession and negative interest rates are now the best way to achieve this.

    So what does this all mean for the rare coin business? There are negatives and positives. The obvious ones first: negatives. Anyone who has ever been to a coin show knows the ubiquitous sight of $100 bills being used to buy coins and bullion. At a large show, there may be more cash on the floor than a small bank has in its vault! It is unusual to see a vendor who accepts credit cards at their table. Furthermore, a collector who comes to sell coins at a show expects to walk out with cash, unless he is selling a large amount of material. If left to deal with nothing but $20s, $10s and $5s our business would be severely hampered. Would the industry find other ways? Probably so, but it would be a slow process.

    Where are the positives to be found? Rare coins and bullion are a proven store of wealth which are tangible and cannot be manipulated by the decisions of policy makers. Policy can influence their value, but cannot change the fact they will never be worth zero. The item that is seemingly ignored by economists is the impact of negative interest rates on savers and retirement accounts. Pensioners – such as teachers, public workers, and those in the trades – rely on managers for their annuities, which can amount to billions of dollars under investment. These pensions are modeled on a minimum annual return which are largely based on the yields on Treasury bonds. When bond yields fall below these minimum returns, pension managers are forced to take riskier plays to find the missing yield or the fund goes into deficit. When these riskier market positions backfire, the pensions become grossly underfunded. One does not need to look farther than the state of Illinois to see this in action. In face of all of this, rare coins and bullion become a very attractive asset to add a part of a savings portfolio, perhaps even better than cash. The old argument against bullion that it “has no yield” doesn’t hold water in a world of negative interest rates. You are actually saving money by holding it.

    This is a tremendous marketing opportunity for the coin industry. The increase in demand would further boost liquidity, which is already one of the strengths of our market.


  81. NcCoinCollector says

    Dollar devaluation does seem inevitable given local state and federal government obligations.

    Cashless society is just one more stop on the Road to Serfdom.

    I certainly cannot predict the future but I am buying PM on the dip because whomever wins the election America seems sure to lose.

  82. Jerry Diekmann says

    Buzz – I didn’t mean to imply that Nordstrom’s was a successor to Sears, – Nordstrom is a long established retailer – all I was saying is that Norstrom grabbed a lot of the customers who used to buy from Sears (probably those who had more money) by continuing to have sales people on the floor, like Sears once did. Sears is an also ran in retailing now because of the really poor strategic decisions that their senior management (now long gone) made many years ago. The company will never recover and has been in a long decline now for at least a generation.

  83. MarkInFlorida says

    My favorite insurance against a cashless society is junk silver Barber coins. They are more expensive than newer junk silver coins, but if there’s a real crisis, I expect 100 year old coins will be safer from any laws to turn in, melt down, pay 90% tax on, bullion.

  84. earthling says

    Today they want us to believe physical money is bad. In many ways they are correct so lets dump it.

    Tomorrow will they tell us uneducated lazy non working people are the root of many problems in society? Sort of like 2 legged vermin that out to destroy civilized society? What should be done with them?

    What about Children born with birth defects?

    How about old people?

    In the end of the search for the bad things in the world, who or what will be left?

  85. The Kid says

    Junk silver coins have an ideal advantage over holding paper money.

    I agree.

    They are easily recognized for the silver value they contain, and are likely going to appreciate when the Feds turn up the speed of the printing presses for fiat. Someone should ask Donald why he wants to be paid in gold…

  86. Montana John says

    @Longarm…I saw an 2013 LESP sold at auction on the bay for $83.00…(mintage 41,609..original price $ 139.95 +shipping )

  87. Barry says

    In regard to a prior post I received the card from the mint with the free shipping code for proof sets and someone else I know did also. The codes are different so they are individualized.

  88. gatortreke says

    @Louis: Thanks for posting the Coin Dealer Newsletter article. A comment on one section, I don’t think it is a coincidence that Rogoff cites $500 billion as the amount of lost government revenue is about equal to the annual U.S. deficit, at least at what it is this year and last year. It fluctuates year to year based on how well the economy is doing and employment, etc… but the most significant aspect is the government believes this is their money and they, like an addict, need the revenue to continue the spend, spend, spend mindset.

    @cagcrisp: I answered as best I could in a previous post Goat’s question what is the best way if we go into a cashless society?, I’m interested in hearing how you are preparing?

  89. Erik H says

    So Krates, yes I was joking (you should know me by know). The article you linked made so many references to crime or crime prevention as the reason to move to cashless. It made Sweden sound so dangerous, LOL. People are so quick to give up their freedom for a false sense of security.

    The next tactic they use is convenience, and the masses fall for it every time. If this wasn’t a blog that most people reading weren’t already agreeing I would counter every pro-reason to go cashless (no need to preach to the choir).

    By the way as much as I am against cashless I use very little myself. For 20+ years I’ve rarely carried more than $40-50 on me and that last a few weeks (exceptions – coin shows).

    The reason to “provide” more cashless options are valid but I believe people should have a choice and that’s why I’m against it. So basically I can argue both sides but I always choose FREEDOM. Cash, check, pre-paid, credit, PM, bit-coin, cell phone, barter, it’s all good in my book. I just would like a little interest on my savings please, is 4 – 5% too much to ask (seems like just yesterday, NOT).

  90. bobo says

    If the powers that be want to pen the people into their banks against their will then they will have to invent something that does not rely on electricity to function. How will people pay for things in remote areas? After natural disasters? An EMP? What this push will cause is a reversion to the exchange of silver and gold coins, which is the last thing the bankers who want to dominate us want.

  91. bobo says

    And if they force us to pay with credit cards, they are then forcing us into their usury, since credit cards often charge 18% interest.

  92. KML in KY says

    I’ve never paid a penny of interest on a credit card but over the years they have paid me quite a bit in rewards for buying coins from the Mint. I never charge any more than I can afford to pay in full. Barring some kind of emergency I hope I never have to pay them any interest.

    Hey, speaking of”nefarious” uses of cash, didn’t our government recently make a large cash payment to the government of Iran in order to get around banking laws? I don’t think they will totally get rid of cash anytime soon.

    At Chase Bank where I have an account one of the bankers told me that any cash deposit had to be reported to the IRS. I’m not sure about cash withdrawals.

  93. cagcrisp says

    @KML in KY, “that any cash deposit had to be reported to the IRS. I’m not sure about cash withdrawals.”

    The limit is $2,000 on “suspicious activities”

    The limit is $10,000 on Any cash withdrawal or deposit (unless it’s deemed a normal business activity)

    It’s not reported to the IRS, it’s reported to Department of the Treasury

    That’s how the government caught former House Speaker Dennis Hastert. He was structuring cash which is also illegal.

  94. So Krates says

    KLM says, “I’ve never paid a penny of interest on a credit card but over the years they have paid me quite a bit…”

    Me neither. They are tools. Rewards and miles are chump change. A few years ago it was quite easy to make REAL money from credit card manipulation.

    1)Apply for dozens of cards (called an Appalooza) on the SAME day. If one wants larger limits, one could inflate stated income, assets, etc. (this is the only part of the scheme that may be questionable/illegal but it is not necessary)

    2)after getting a bunch of cards, combine the credit lines of similar cards so one card has a very high limit and leave the other cards open but with a only a $500 limit (the closed cards will ding your credit score).

    3) Take advantage of intro 0% balance transfer offers – but transfer the advances to a card with no existing balance. Must have no or minimal FEES associated with transfer.

    4) request a check for the credit balance on card that received transfer

    5) invest balance in high yield CD/MM acct. for full term of 0% credit card offer.

    6) Make monthly payments DILIGENTLY – just ONE late payment can bring the whole thing down.

    7) wash, rinse, repeat. The banks start to see the large credit lines and regular on-time payments lines and are willing to grant even bigger limits during your next Appalooza.

    As yields went down and fees for the balance transfers became 3%-4% with few exceptions, it became more difficult to pull off. Still totally possible though – just gotta look harder and the spread is smaller, just not worth it to me anymore. One could easily get their total credit lines well into six figures.

    Be advised that this no risk technique will temporarily decrease your credit score, mainly due to the credit utilization ratio being too high. You’re basically using all your lines to arbitrage and therefore have little available credit, so it looks like your really strapped cuz everything is maxed out making YOU money by taking it right OUT OF THE BANKERS POCKETS!

  95. So Krates says

    cagcrisp says, “The limit is $2,000 on “suspicious activities”

    I have always found this number hard to pin down, but often see a $5K figure mentioned. If possible, can you reference your source?

  96. Discovergold says

    Chase bank will copy your ID for deposits that includes any amount of cash – even $5

  97. So Krates says

    @ Discovergold – That is a waste of time because they already have it on file from when they opened the account. I might understand if the account you’re depositing into isn’t yours, but if you’re the owner that is stupid. IMO Chase retail banking sucks more than most.

  98. Felson says

    I prefer my Credit Union to a bank. I went to cash a check recently at Bank of America and they wanted to charge me $5 to cash the check. I asked them to explain why I was being charged to cash a check drawn on their bank and was told that since I didn’t bank with them it was their policy. It makes no sense to me that I should be expected to accept a check from someone using their bank and be charged because I did. So I don’t accept checks from them anymore.

  99. Mint News Blog says

    Thanks for the reminder! I went back to the site and found two; the one I recall reading – and this may be the one you’re thinking of, too – was this piece, which is a fairly friendly book review. Another one I encountered is a critical piece by Frank Holmes of U.S. Global Investors, republished on the Business Insider site. I have a feeling most MNB readers will find it compelling.

    For lagniappe, here’s an interview of Rogoff from the Washington Post site.

  100. So Krates says

    @ Felson – I agree. I find it most frustrating when looking at it from the account holder’s point of view. When I open a checking account I would expect the ability to write checks to all people and businesses. Most are “fully banked” and will deposit my check into their bank account but occasionally I will write a check to someone who might want to present it at a branch for cash. This should be included in my account privileges and not passed on to the person cashing the check (who is more likely to be “unbanked” and of less means). I can understand charging if you have a payroll and workers are lining up to cash checks, but an occasional small cashed check should be free. These jerks will nickel and dime you to death.

  101. So Krates says

    Great word, Diana!

    Welcome to the job and thanks for the articles.

    Gotta go to Church now….Good luck to you all <<

  102. cagcrisp says

    @So Krates, “I have always found this number hard to pin down, but often see a $5K figure mentioned. If possible, can you reference your source?”

    Source: Friend that owns multiple banks

    The $10,000 is a hard and fast rule. The $2.000, not so much so. Before the world changed, I used to have to go to Vegas to conduct some of my “business” and as such I had to withdraw a lot of cash. When the law changed to $10,000 my banker friend alerted me to the law. Subsequently the “structuring” came into being. After going to banking conferences and consulting with other bankers, he determined that I should be good as long as I kept in under $2,000 and “not suspicious”.

    After you asked, I did google to see IF I could find anything about the $2,000 and I came up with this article

    “Transactions of less than $2,000 don’t typically trigger reporting. ”


  103. cagcrisp says

    @Steve, “i do wonder why those that are always throwing out stats, don’t have any info yet. I think first day sales will be around 15,000….and final sales will be around 22,000.”

    I’ll Throw out 15,225 for Launch Day

    I’ll Through out 15,972 through Tonight

    When the Mint actually pulls the offering I’ll Through out 18,379…

  104. KCSO says

    As one that is always throwing out stats and analysis, Cag, my analysis likes your launch day figure of 15,223. With that, I’ll throw down (analysis based, of course), 18,889 on the final wrap up.

    Though would caution drawing any immediate conclusions, as Pre-Sale figures and launch day sales are no more predictive of future preformance than selling silver Liberty Medals pre-sale at $99 each, nor pre-sale ’15 Platinum Proofs presale at $1,800, nor Truman C&C, my beloved ’15 Buffalo which is charging on nicely, and the list goes on.

    All these launches (for the most part), evolve differently..,
    as we’ll see with the next two big launches

  105. bigguy says

    My wife and i save money and sometimes keep it for an emergency,alot of old people used to hide money in their house and property ,because they did not trust the banks,because of the great deppression , if that happened today you would have nothing to fall back on ,because cash would be no good.My grandfather was one of them.If you go cashless you could never do anything like that ,the government and banks would always know everything you owned,and the IRS,They would just get on the computer and check you out.personally i do not like this,nothing would be private at all.you think you have a problem with hacking bank accounts now,just think if all the people that hack could get to everything you own online. i think that is really a bad idea,i know we still have account # on line know ,but i have money that not everyone has to know about ,that is not in a bank.Just my personal thoughts

  106. bigguy says

    my mother in law husband died a few years ago and worked foe chessie system,he past away about 11 years ago,she has received his retirement ever since the rail pays the 1st of every month auto deposit on the 1st , they pay in arrears the money would be for june 2016 ,my mother in law passed away july 4th 2016 on the 7th of july the bank sent the deposit back to the railroad,without our knowing it,until to late.talked to a dozen different people at the bank they said it was there policy,we have not got the money back yet.THIS BANK DOES WHAT IT LIKES,I CANNOT EVEN THINK ABOUT THEM HAVING ALL MY MONEY ,AND NOT HAVING CASH.THEY THINK THEY HAVE THE RIGHT,YOU ARE A LITTLE PERSON AND THEY ARE KING

  107. NcCoinCollector says

    To my knowledge there is no magic number. If the bank teller believes you are engaged in suspicious activity they are to fill out a SAR (suspicious activity report).
    lots of people choose to travel with cash and pay for furniture, large appliances and used cars with cash so if you are upfront there should be no worries.
    What is worrisome is that many financial institutions no longer allow cash to be kept in safe deposit boxes.

  108. Goat says

    cagcrisp says
    OCTOBER 8, 2016 AT 9:58 AM

    When Goat first asked his question about a cashless society, he asked “The big question is what is the best way if we go into a cashless society ?

    SO far Most have opined the merits of a cashless society and have not answered the question he asked. Regardless of what you WANT to happen, it will either happen or it will not. The question that Goat asked is what is the best way IF we go into a cashless society?

    1. Old gold/silver ?
    2. Bullion/proof gold/silver ?
    3. New gold/silver ?
    4. Or just any gold/silver that has weight/value amount with low premium to spot ?
    5. Sell all high premium and buy low premium for quantity ?

    Try to put aside your For vs. Against a cashless society and try to help those that will actually be facing a cashless society in the future.

    For me it’s not a question of IF but When and I have been preparing for it for years. IF it Doesn’t happen, I’m Golden. IF it Does happen, I HOPE I’ve got the right strategy but I have NO idea If I will be the correct one or not…

    @cagcrisp and others that replied ;
    Thanks for the Help. I do hope we have the correct strategy. As I posted my direction, I feel many people will not act on what they are feeling, will wait until it’s too late. Economics can be argued from many different opines/facts/numbers, that’s why it’s hard to see the proper direction. Everyone wants to have/see a progress situation. In some case’s in history the classroom slate board will be wiped clean for a new start. I do think the 5-10% of PM’s of one’s total holdings is too low. In all wars/economics disasters the hiding/transfer/hoarding of gold/silver can be read in all cases back to the beginning of time. I think since the day I was born I should of dollar cost averaged PM’s ,(when silver change was face value, wow was not thinking then) but now have to make up loss “time”. The “world” has showed it’s bearish side , many warnings but somewhere there is a once in a life time opportunity.

    Sometimes weekend postings are little, you sure turned it around this weekend. It feels good to have more information.

  109. Goat says

    One family member buried cash (gold/silver notes) in mason jars, A lot of gold/silver cert. did not make it. WARNING!! cash will rot due to condensation in the jar when earth changes temperatures.

  110. Bigguy says

    Not really talking about putting under the earth,just remember you will not be able to have anything for the future without someone knowing it

  111. MikeinPA says

    I know it’s the weekend but it seems like most of the conversation is aimed at the doomsday crowd, nice to have some cash stashed for an emergency (not the kind most posters forecast) but anything above that is pure speculation, but if you prefer to live on what may happen, or enjoy the friends and life that is happening is entirely up to you, I prefer the latter

  112. Wdg5khp says

    Does anyone know the HHL for Walking Liberty Coin? Noticed that it got put on the calendar for the 17th of next month……I have prolly been asleep at the wheel….. 🙂

  113. KML in KY says

    Thanks to everyone for their input on the banking rules. I only know a little about it. I’ve had an account at Chase Bank for many years. I also have an account at a smaller local bank. I understand that if the to big to fail banks crash again there will be a bail in rather than a bail out and the depositors will get screwed.

  114. KCSO says

    Wdg5khp – we should know more by next Wednesday/Thursday by COB.

    The mint trend has been to release mintage and HHL exactly 7 days from when the release hits the PS. Though one never knows with the crazy mint.

  115. bobo says

    Let’s translate bank newspeak:

    “bail in” = confiscation of your money
    “negative interest rates” = confiscation of your money
    “too big to fail” = too big to jail (because they bought the gov’t with printed money)
    “quantitative easing” = printing money for the banks to be paid off by you and your kids as inflation and taxation
    “plunge protection team” = printing money to buy stocks, to make it seem like things are OK
    “Federal reserve” = privately owned banking cabal that makes and prints money for its owners

    Imagine playing Monopoly, where one player gets to counterfeit as much currency as he wants. Who do you think will end up owning everything, you or that player? That is what the Fed system is, a scam perpetrated on the US population in 1913 for the benefit of the owners of the Fed system.

    But who owns the Fed? Well they try to hide this info as much as possible. But eight highly intermarried clans that appear to have a controlling interest of our Fed and most other central banks include “Goldman Sachs, Rockefellers, Lehmans and Kuhn Loebs of New York; the Rothschilds of Paris and London; the Warburgs of Hamburg; the Lazards of Paris; and the Israel Moses Seifs of Rome.” (http://humansarefree.com/2015/06/the-federal-reserve-cartel-rothschild.html)

    How do we take America back from these mafiosos? A beginning would be ending the Fed.

  116. cagcrisp says

    @ MikeinPA says”I know it’s the weekend but it seems like most of the conversation is aimed at the doomsday crowd, nice to have some cash stashed for an emergency (not the kind most posters forecast) but anything above that is pure speculation, but if you prefer to live on what may happen, or enjoy the friends and life that is happening is entirely up to you, I prefer the latter”

    You will not see any Doomsday from me.

    I own Big Banks and have no problem with a cashless society. There will be winners and there will be losers.

    You just have to have a game plan that works…

  117. cagcrisp says

    Guesstimates for Mintage and HHL for the Walking Liberty Half

    earthling 200,000/1
    Mike in NY 75,000/1
    KCSO 90,000/2
    cagcrisp 100,000/5
    MT 75,000/2
    Yes, But…You Can’t Take It With You 50,000/1
    NcCoinCollector 75,000/1
    Louis 50,000/1
    longarm 100,000/1
    Tony 50,000/1
    Karl Meyer 65,000/1
    Paddy 70,000/1
    Tinto 55,000/2
    Gary not Dave 25,000/1
    Steve 60,000/1
    Big L 75,000/1
    Peter 75,000/2
    HarryB 75,000/2
    DBR 75,000/1
    zephin 55,000/1
    Old Big Bird 50,000/1
    baldwin 75,000/2
    Wilycoyote 50,000/1
    Mark Rex 40,000/1
    Montana John 125,000/2
    dave 45,000/1
    Mr. Kairu 60,000/2
    a Bob 80,000/1
    Big C 65,000/2
    Don 50,000/2
    ClevelandRocks 75,000/1
    Imaginary 65,000/1
    Jerry Diekmann 75,000/1
    MikeinPA 100,000/3
    smalltimecollector 45,000/1
    CF 60,000/2
    Joe M. 75,000/1
    Ikaika 65,000/1
    Ron 75,000/2
    Throckmorton 50,000/1
    achmed 100,000/2
    Dean 75,000/2
    beaver 100,000/2
    asherspapa 75,000/2
    Goat 75,000/1
    data dave 80,000/1
    JARHEADnFLORIDA 100,000/4
    Teach 50,000/1
    The Real “Cool” Brad 90,000/5
    gatortreke 80,000/2
    Vancer 80,000/1
    Dustyroads 75,000/1
    ike 50,000/1

  118. Old Big Bird says

    All this talk about a cashless society. If they continue to push a one world order and global money.
    What happens if the government closes all bank transactions in this county? Without hard currency
    we will all be sucking winds. And if you think that could not happen you better get your heads out of the sand.
    It is not doomsday talk it is a possibility. So thank you very much I will hang onto my coins.

  119. cagcrisp says

    With today’s Gold fixes to get a One Level price drop on Gold we only need to Average below $1,381.55 for the remaining 3 fixes AND we need to stay below $1,300.00 for Wednesday’s PM fix…

    You still do NOT need to buy any Gold from the Mint until Wednesday afternoon, and Yet, we will see some Gold sales for products when sales numbers come out.

    Thanks for helping to pay down the national debt…

  120. says

    Well how about that Reagan C&C set?

    Buy tomorrow at the starting bell? Or leisurely over the week?

    I could easily see first day sales of over 65k.., though anything over 100,000 in the near term a psychological barrier (at least from my point of view)

    I’m interested to hear that others think

  121. Larry says

    Because the Regan C&C set will include the 30th Anniversary Silver Eagle, maybe the sales will be higher than you think. Maybe some folks that were going to buy the ASE decided to kill two birds with one stone, and wait for this set.

  122. Pigpen says

    KML in KY,

    I do the same with my credit cards. It’s not life changing money but nice to get a little fun cash back.

  123. cagcrisp says

    Tried to dummy up my Promo code today to get Free Shipping and I got “Promo code unknown”

    I’m Totally Devastated…

  124. Numismatrix says

    Well how about that Reagan C&C set?

    I’ll do it during later in the day when I have a spare moment.
    To save shipping I’ll add an additional 2-3 items.

  125. Hawkster says

    But Larry, collectors of the annual ASE prefer to purchase said coin encapsulated in the blue velvet presentation case topped with a metallic heraldic Eagle–not as an add-on to a C&C set.

    KCSO: I know, no value.

  126. Teach says

    Hawkster, I am one of those people who will buy both forms of the ASE. I like the little blue box 🙂

  127. Teach says

    I am going to wait on the C & C set. I see no reason to be in hurry for this one. If there was a special ASE it would be a whole different story. I think I will wait to combine this one with something else for shipping savings.

  128. cagcrisp says

    Winged Head Liberty dime 70s update…

    The Last listed auction 70 from texasgse ended Yesterday. Prices have already appeared to strengthened since the departure of 24 auctions per day for months…

  129. NcCoinCollector says

    I plan to purchase Reagan C & C tommorow.

    If I recall correctly, one aspect of the ,”New World Order” was a world currency. Maybe cashless society helps get us there. To be clear that idea pops up pretty often in mainstream books on globalization as well. On the other hand it could be argued that silver is, has been and will be the only global currency (aside from trust and loyalty) the world has known.

  130. KCSO says

    cagcrisp says
    OCTOBER 10, 2016 AT 11:35 AM

    Tried to dummy up my Promo code today to get Free Shipping and I got “Promo code unknown”

    What do you mean, Are they really running a free shipping promo? Or is just select targeted folks receiving a code to entice them to buy something?

    If there’s a generic free shipping promo code, please post here, I’m sure a few of us could have a field day with it. Thanks

  131. KCSO says

    I wish I had waited on buying those Proof ASEs through enrollment last month and just gone with the Reagan sets and just added a single ASE to that order. Thought demand would be considerably more than it has been to-date for the ASE-W.

  132. cagcrisp says

    @KCSO, ” Or is just select targeted folks receiving a code to entice them to buy something?” Yep.

    Free shipping if you purchase the 2016 United States Mint Proof Set or the 2016 United States Mint Silver Proof Set.

    Wasn’t interested in Either product. Just interested is Seeing IF the code worked. It didn’t…

  133. Mark Rex says

    Could use the code to order all the items you want and the Mint Set then just return the Mint Set for its undoubtedly poor quality. lol

    My finance got the code, I haven’t tried to use it yet. I was going to try to use it when ordering 3 of the C&C sets and another TR P tomorrow. I didn’t know part of the deals was having to order one of those sets.

  134. TNDuckHunter says

    So my question is, Why are “we” as a society doing to stop this from happening? We know that the reasons they are giving for eliminating cash is simply in an attempt to push their agenda – to gain even more control over people. Once cash is gone – we are slaves to the government and banking system. If you want to maintain privacy with regard to your personal wealth – you cannot. The Elite, however, will always remain exempt from the rule of law. We are all in big trouble if things continue down the road they are going now. Everything that is happening in society is all tied together, Once guns have been taken away – everything else becomes easy to achieve.

  135. Larry says

    Rats. I won’t be at a computer tomorrow at 12:00 ET because of work. Still, I think the Regan C&C set should be around a while with 150K to sell.

  136. Xena says

    KCSO – I’m in at the starting bell. One, it’s at lunchtime when I have more flexibility to be on the internet and 2, I’ve given up on trying to save $4.95 in the sell-out guessing game. I’d rather know that my 2 sets are complete.

  137. Dustyroads says

    KSCO, It’s too bad you were on the back side of the Reagan era. Thinking about Reagan reminds of my first girlfriend, who ripped my heart out and stomped on it!!! Oh…sorry.
    You were also on the back side of the Star Wars phenomenon as well as Jaws, what a time.
    I was aware that we were in a recession, but was a little too young to be worried by it.
    Later though I was a firm believer in Reagan’s policies and was proud to have him as POTUS while we did. Still though, I’m not excited about the sets. If they were better looking I might consider it, but I won’t be in at any time. I must say I have a hard time believing these sets will ever sell out.

  138. Dustyroads says

    So Krates, You know very well that we all were facing something we had never dealt with before, then mix that with sentiments of another day and time and you get something that sounds like this. I don’t think people should be practicing this kind of behavior, nor do I think people should be doing things like sharing needles, but the fact of the matter is that we are all in this world together and we have to share in the wake brought about by these types of behaviors. Most of us know someone effected AIDS, I myself had a monogamous friendship with a girl who couldn’t seem to walk straight. Then came the day she told me she had AIDS, that was in the mid eighties. 658,992 people dead because of a behavior, just stupid. And what gets me is that while so me people are mortified by one mans claim about how he likes to make out with women, those same people are praising behavior that has caused the deaths of countless people all over the world, not to mention the murders of millions of children on the basis of an umbilical cord connection. You can blame any ONE person for deaths all day if you want to, but it would be a whole lot better for everyone of us if every individual would humble themselves before their God, then maybe we won’t have to have a reckoning like what appears to be very, very close. But take heart So Krates, because there is hope for everyone.

  139. bobo says

    I think the international bankers who own the Fed and want to rule the world, have been planning a one world digital currency under their sole control for a very long time. The Rotschild owned magazine “The Economist” in 1988 predicted that there would be such a currency in existence by 2018. They probably called it ‘the phoenix’ because it would rise from the ashes of economic mayhem, we can assume, that they would trigger. That will have to start pretty soon if they are going to stay on schedule.


  140. data dave says

    I don’t think the US will go to a cashless society anytime soon because we are exporting over $100 Billion per year in C-notes. Now if those would start coming back, then maybe so.

  141. So Krates says

    Dustroads – Unlike you I didn’t blame anyone…just pointing out one of many areas where your idol clearly had the wrong policy after you said how great his policies were. If he wasn’t weighed down with bronze age tribal biases from some old book he probably would have acted more quickly.

    How much more humbled before their god should a hemophiliac have been to avoid contracting HIV/AIDS?

    “I myself had a monogamous friendship with a girl ”

    Does this means she can only be friends with you and have no other friends? 😉

  142. says

    Ronnie Reagan was a tool who ushered in the Bush crime family,. I guess nobody remembers the male escorts who got midnight tours of the White House or the little boys who were flown in from Boys Town for late night sex parties.

  143. data dave says

    Bad news for coin collectors – the US Mint will not buy back mutilated coins anymore. As long as you can get them to go through the Coin Star machine I guess you are okay. The banks could someday stop accepting them entirely. Maybe that is the first step toward cashless – stop accepting coins.

  144. Buzz Killington says

    @SK — Perhaps the monogamous friend went before the temple, and pierced her ear with an awl, meaning that she now willingly belonged to him forever.

    Yes, Bible Readers, the same god who gave you your precious 10 Commandments also gave detailed instructions about the keeping of slaves, and when you got to keep the wives and children of your slaves, etc. Listening to people on their moral high horse about one god or another makes me sad about how slow the victory of science over superstition is taking.

  145. says

    I must have been dozing. When did the HHL for Regan’s C&C go from 5 to 3? Was I mistaken? Was it always 3? Please update me. Thanks all.

  146. IPS_STUFF says

    Not that this is a coin blog ?

    But if we are going to be bashing the bible by taken selective portions and using it to decide the science should take a victory over FAITH (named superstition by some), then the moderator must step in and moderate.

    I suggest someone take a little more time and actual read the bible, all 66 books.

    Oh and I will be buying a few sets of the Coin and Chronicle sets today, may share a few with my very nice bible reading friends.

  147. marc says

    I thought I was on craigslist reading the rant and raves . Trashing the bible again and sex party in the white house. What is next the creepy clowns.

  148. says

    I don’t agree that it wouldn’t have an impact on the economy or have a slight impact. I think it will change everything

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